Re: L3 Bitter Mellons, Gin and Tonic, and a an Un- reasonable vie w.
Gautam Mukunda wrote: The particular case of the slave who was 1/64th blck was quite famous. How interesting, there's a famous brazilian _romance_ of the XIX century with the same story, Escrava Isaura [Slave-woman Isaura], who was turned into a soap-opera, and, despite its blatant racism, is the most popular br soap opera outside of Brazil. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
The majority of online retailers based in the US now collect European sales taxes on downloadable sales to European customers. If I buy 'software' - a program, clip-art or whatever from the US I have to pay 17.5% VAT and in most cases the store will charge that and pass it on to the UK government. Since the online stores have already had to set that up to cope with all the different EU members (which have various different VAT rates) adding support for your local state taxes would be trivial. Physical goods are taxed on entry (which means you pay the postman the due tax or you don't get the package). -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Our products just aren't engineered for security. - Brian Valentine, senior vice president in charge of Microsoft's Windows development team. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
At 10:45 PM 3/4/2004, you wrote: Kevin Tarr wrote: The debate here is to lower the sales tax from 6 to 4%, but tax everything. Currently uncooked food and clothes are exempt. The hue and cry of course is that this will unfairly target the poor. But most studies show that overall the consumer will see lower taxes and with a single tax structure retailers could collect taxes easier. What about dealing with people who are tax-exempt? That was more of a pain than dealing with non-taxable items when I was having to figure out how much sales tax we owed each month when I did that for the company I worked for. Julia What about them? If my register already has a button for non-taxable items, it should be able to handle a whole order that is non-taxed; basically a wholesale or B to B order. How is a person non-exempt? What I didn't add: the main reason for moving the ST was to bring property tax relief. Kevin T. - VRWC Too early, too tired ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bases, was Re: Stirling engine queries
Alberto Monteiro wrote: Alberto Monteiro who spends his time in the traffic looking at the numbers of the cars and dividing them by 11. I spend my time making words from the three letters on the plates we have here. Keeps me amused for a while. Bonus points for naughty words. Did I say I hate traffic?? No! Well, I do. Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Stranger in a Strange Land :-) Re: Tyranny
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote- Fine then. Like Tom said, I am just going to have to accept that Brin-L is what it is. I will accept the fact that in the minds of plenty of the Left-Wingers around here it is impossible to be right-wing and have respectability and credibility. That's just how it is then, and I am just going to deal with it. Can I jump in here. I am just a scum-sucking no-account lurker, but I think this list would be a lot poorer without JDG's input. Both in terms of energy and the level of debate. I dont often leap up in agreement with his posts, but I appreciate the thought and time he puts into explain his position, and explain it well. I single him out only cos of his post above, many others, from all ends of the spectrum do the same. I would encourage all of us to follow their example. Dee who could use a button pushing moratorium overall, but heck I have been quiet and not as active a member as I could be I have been busy taping all my buttons, knobs, dials and other controls into the No 11 position. It seems the best way. And you know what, its kinda peaceful with all the noise. Set the Controls Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Race to the Bottom
From: ritu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] And I am just asking what these people would like the Indians to do. Not accept the jobs that are being offered? Insist on being paid the salary of their US counterparts? Put aside a part of their paycheck each month and send it to the US? You can send it to me, if you'd like! grin I can always use the extra cash. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
- Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:59 AM Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom I don't mean to dispute your suggestion of looking at the employment vs. unemployment numbers, I actually think that is a good idea. Perhaps we have both been too cavalier with drawing conclusions from the limited data set we were looking at. That doesn't seem unreasonable. I don't really like looking at numbers that show monthly changes, since the data looks so noisy, but that seems to be what is most readily available. I decided to test this by plotting monthly employment from 1940 to now (2-2004). There is, of course, monthly noise, but I was surprised at how smooth the overall curve looked. I think decided to plot a variable I called job loss. That variable is ((Maximum number of jobs) -(Present number of jobs))/(Maxium number of jobs) As you can see, during upswings, this number is zero because the maximum number of jobs is the present months total. It is only positive during downturns. What is interesting about the present downturn is that it is, since 1940, the longest span where this number is positive. The most comperable span was 1980-83, but there was half a year in the middle where this variable was zero. Unfortunately, I do not have a website to post this, but I can send it to you if you are posting charts. That we we can split the work in getting numbers. (I have it in an .xls file now, but I can put it in a number of different formats.) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
- Original Message - From: Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:55 AM Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom - Original Message - From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:59 AM Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom I don't mean to dispute your suggestion of looking at the employment vs. unemployment numbers, I actually think that is a good idea. Perhaps we have both been too cavalier with drawing conclusions from the limited data set we were looking at. That doesn't seem unreasonable. I don't really like looking at numbers that show monthly changes, since the data looks so noisy, but that seems to be what is most readily available. I decided to test this by plotting monthly employment from 1940 to now (2-2004). There is, of course, monthly noise, but I was surprised at how smooth the overall curve looked. I think decided to plot a variable I called job loss. That variable is ^^^ then Sigh, Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
NOT safe for work . . .
The Scout Walker Kama Sutra http://www.scoutwalker.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Aye, there's the rub!
GWB's fetish revealed! First here: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/040303/480/ksd10103032234 or http://makeashorterlink.com/?V23E31F97 And here: http://www.dominionpost.com/a/news/2003/06/06/an/ Heard on talk radio this morning: I don't know, this seems like 'inappropriate touching' to me Hey, if I was bald, I'd let him rub my head, too! _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Stirling engine queries
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erik Reuter wrote: On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 01:40:47PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: Describe how to count up to 1023 on 10 fingers. :) 132 to you! Hay Erick, 198, 2, 198, 2, 198, 2 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
Another interesting number I found is they delay between the rebound in GDP and the rebound in employment. The figure that I used for each is the number of quarters after the first quarter of a recession for the gdp/employment to once again be a historical high. The numbers are year gdp employment 1949 4 6 1953 5 7 1957 4 6 1960 4 6 1969 3 7 1974 7 8 1980 3 3 1981 6 8 1990 4 8 2001 413+ For the most part, the delay between GDP and employment is 2 quarters or less. There are three exceptions to this. In 1969, it was 4 quarters. But, this is a bit of an anomoly, because there was almost a double dip recession, with the GDP falling in the 3rd quarter of 1970...which help prolong the unemployment dip. The second is 1990, which again had a 4 quarter gap. This time, there was no anomoly in the GDP, it kept rising throughout the unemployment dip. The final one is the 2001 recession. They gap is 9 quarters and counting...well unless March jobs are up 7 million from February. :-) Expectations are for it to be at least 12 quarters. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Stirling engine queries
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 09:26:00PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: Erik Reuter wrote: On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 01:40:47PM -0600, Julia Thompson wrote: Describe how to count up to 1023 on 10 fingers. :) 132 to you! Erik! I didn't know you cared! Wouldn't that be 9 (thumbs in) or 18 (thumbs out)? No that would be Austin Prowd. Try 17. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: This Is Spinal Ta-, er, Metallica
From: Horn, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: This Is Spinal Ta-, er, Metallica Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:24:49 -0600 From: Travis Edmunds [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] boring). You want a good guitarist, with good mechanics, that's not flashy/trashy, and just may have an exceptional ear? Mark Knopfler. How about Nils Lofgren? From what I've heard he's the guitarists pick for best guitarist. He's been around forever but has never completely gotten his due from the general public. - jmh Who? I've never heard of him. Which I guess, helps validate your last sentance...lol -Travis _ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Stirling engine queries
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Describe how to count up to 1023 on 10 fingers. :) My wife and I (both CS) use this method exclusivly. I think I have even posted this here before. Anyway, one day we went to the grocer on our way for a long road trip. From across the store, she wanted to know how many Necterines to get total. Using hand signals I asked how many se whould like. She held up her index finger signeling that she would want 2. I then replied that I would also want 2 and responded that this made 4 total. A guy that had been standing close to me but between my wife and I came over and began to yell at me. I had no idea why, and I called for security. When security arived, several soccer moms close by got involved and told them that I had been rude to the man and that was why he was attacking me. I then realized what had happned and tried to explainIt did little good though, they just could not understand how I could have been counting in that manner. I like to use this now as a kind of insult, you hold up 4 fingers on one hand and ask the insult reciever to convert to binary. Oh, man, that story is even better than the one I have about that gesture! Ages ago, Dan was working on software to help make AutoCAD run faster. The software included a display list, which made things go faster, and they could add extra features that AutoCAD didn't have at the time. One such feature was True Erase(tm). (At least, I think it was trademarked, I could be wrong, though.) If you wanted to change a vector in AutoCAD, what it did initially was to put a black vector over the one that was there, and then create the new vector. True Erase would get rid of the old vector and the black vector a lot sooner than AutoCAD would, which helped boost performance. The company president was trying to explain this to a customer at a trade show, and held up three fingers -- one for the old vector, one for the new vector, one for the covering vector. He then went on to say how True Erase got rid of the old and covering vectors. He didn't pick the correct finger for the new vector. So one of our little inside jokes is to say True Erase! instead of the actual insult. The UT marching band went to south america and were thrown out of a band competition for using the hook-em-horns sign, which means something very vulgar. After a lot of explaining and a promise not to repeat the offense they were allowed back 3 years latter. At this point they decided that if they could not use the hoom-em then they would hold up an OK sign. Unfortunatly the hand signals are synonimous. Query: When was this? I don't know, it was told to me by someone in the band as an explination for why AM was going to some event and we were not. By the way, when Kim and I make a 4 we do so with our palms out and our index and thubm forming a C. This has made us consider that you could actualy represent a much larger set of numbers than 0 - 1023. For one thing you get twice as many bits if you turn your hand around. you also get twice again for 1/2 raised fingers. If you then use one hand to point to another whew...I never need to leave one hand. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub avoids attacking suspected terrorist mastermind 3 times
John wrote: It is positive to see that The Fool's opposition to the War in Iraq is now based on the fact that we did not attack Iraq soon enough. Glad to see that you are on board. The fact that the terrorist camp was in Iraq was incidental. One can be against the invasion of Iraq (in the manner it was accomplished) and be very much for the attack on terrorist strongholds. In any case, we were conducting air strikes on various targets within Iraq since the end of the first Gulf war. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dunno - I still don't get why everyone is so very eager to hate the third party rather than the actual thief which carried out the entire displacement of property. That's just the way humans work. And as for the criminal bit, well, it isn't some shady, underground, fly-by-the-night illegal operation. These contracts follow the laws of two countries and are in tune with the concept of globalisation. No actualy it is not in line with the laws we ~use~ to have. Or at least what was expected when these companies were given tax breaks. We all voted for that becouse we thought it woudl creat more jobs for ~us~. W knew we would have to make up the difference, but we did it anyway becouse it was what was good for our country. The companies are not playing fair, or nice. So now we want laws to make sure they do what is right for the US first. I am not justifying that emotional response, only pointing it out, and asking what should be done about it. And I am just asking what these people would like the Indians to do. Insist on being paid the salary of their US counterparts? Bingo! And if you don't we should make tax laws which equalize it. Not only is it good for the US worker, but it would be good for the government coffers. From the out of work american's perspective Indea is steeling our Jobs, and they know it. I have heard representatives from Indean companies say and I quoate, I can hve 200 developers on this toomarow for the price of one of your workers here. You can get rid yourself of these expensive development staff emediatly. How can we not hear this and not get angry and feel like we are being robbed? Oh, there is no way you can not get angry. But I thought value for money was a basic tenet of capitalism and robbery involved coercion. No, becouse we are not in an open market, it's not true capitalism. To use your previous example of a car, it is like one mechanic accusing the other of robbery just because the latter offered a lower price and wooed the former's customers away. That leaves out so much infomration. Besides dumping realy cheep product on the market, or undercutting for a loss is illigal in ~this~ country. As far as I can make out, the salient point here is that a choice was offered and that the second mechanic neither used guns/threats/blackmail, nor got into the car and drove it away. Your forgetting, that we built these compnaies, our tax dollars and society have supproted the ability of these companies to be what they are, they are ~our~ companies. We have supported them and fostered them, and worked for them and built them for ~our~ society. If we thought that they would simply abandon America we would never have given them tax breaks, we would never have allowed them the kind of freedoms to grow, we wouldn't have worked the increadably long hours (in comparison ot our contrymen women) over the past decade to make the US technology industry what it is today. Why would we do that if they are just going to rob us of the benifit, You don't get up on a scafelding and build a town hall and paint the ceeling if the Forman is going to pull the scafelding down, and he's not going to let you even come to town hall. About that Indian chap you quoted above, the only way he was telling the truth was if each US developer is paid around USD 60,000 pm. Is that the going rate in the US? No, for a very poorly paid, just out of School developer who can't show that they know how to code maybe. Actualy scratch that, it would have to be a QA trainee (like the sit and play video games and complain about it kind) with no degree. The low end rate is about 120,000 for someone with 4 year experience and a CS degree. Of course right now, people are taking temp work for 60 or 70, but you can't live on that here. You couldn't even pay for shelter and food for a family of 3 on that, much less have traspertation to and from work. Non-skilled labor like washing toilets is 60. The other part of the reason being the backlash being felt in US and Europe. Yea well, like I said it's NOT an open economy, you have every right to try and produce your own companies which then sell their product to us. But when you start doing the same work for slavery wages, and selling the work, not the product, there are 2 problems. First you are SLAVES. Second, you make enemies of our people, and believe it or not, our people really do have the power here eventualy. The governement may lag our opinions and beliefs, but in then end, India may find that they are an enemy. Not the goverment doing wrong kind of enemy, but the people hate kind. If you have so much trouble finding jobs for a decent living then I have one very important bit of advice. If you can't afford the well being of a child, then don't have one. It's not advice that I myself have not taken
Re: Race to the Bottom
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: stuff is waay slow to stick in my brain), but I seem to recall alot of previous posts on how computer people can never stop learning, it is a trap in many professions to rest on your laurels. Yea, but that is staying on top of a particular type of knowledge, which is differnt than the type of changes you are relating it to. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Aye, there's the rub!
GWB's fetish revealed! First here: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/040303/480/ ksd10103032234 or http://makeashorterlink.com/?V23E31F97 And here: http://www.dominionpost.com/a/news/2003/06/06/an/ Heard on talk radio this morning: I don't know, this seems like 'inappropriate touching' to me Hey, if I was bald, I'd let him rub my head, too! I think he was waiting for Barbara Eden to pop out and call him Master -- Tom Beck my LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tomfodw/ I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never thought I'd see the last. - Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
I'm for free trade as long as the environment and labor practices are taken into account (I agree with most of what Erik had to say). However, I do agree somewhat with Jan that U.S. corporations should have some loyalty to the country that fostered them and the workers that helped make them what they are. I don't expect them to have that loyalty however because the corporate conscience is almost wholly dependant upon the people that are in charge and all to often the rich and powerful believe themselves to be above the law. Loyalty is an emotion that seldom registers. That's not a blanket statement, by the way, there are plenty of rich powerful people that do have a conscience, but when we have an anything-goes executive like we do now, people with a conscience find it more difficult to compete. Let me disagree vehemently with Jan on one point. We have absolutely no justification for any ill will towards those that benefit from outsourcing and anyone with a brain larger than a pea should be able to understand that - especially in this most capitalist of all nations. We're our positions reversed I don't think anyone here would hesitate for a second to take a relatively well paid position if it was offered to them. And I would support a democracy like India long before I would back Pakistan. Not least because Pakistan has a history of backing terrorism including al Qaeda, or because of their non-democratic government. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Ayatollah: No Interim Constitution for You
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040305/D8149N801.html BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Shiite members of Iraq's Governing Council refused to sign the interim constitution at the last minute Friday, delaying a signing ceremony after the country's top Shiite cleric rejected parts of the document, Iraqi officials said. -- If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. - Diebold Internal Memos ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
[L3]Re: Orson Scott Card's take on Homosexual 'Marriage' and Civilization
--- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2004-02-15-1.html I snipped *massively* throughout - and took a bit of a Cheshire Cat viewpoint ;} By Orson Scott Card February 15, 2004 Homosexual Marriage and Civilization A little dialogue from Lewis Carroll: The question is, said Alice, whether you can make words mean so many different things. The Massachusetts Supreme Court...By declaring that homosexual couples are denied their constitutional rights by being forbidden to marry, it is treading on the same ground. On definitions: once 'human' = 'white male' -- Negroes and women were called sub-human; I recall seeing one old claim that they were in fact a sub-species. Once fart was the socially polite word to use for flatulence. Point: definitions change, as does word usage. Language and society are not static - unless they're dead or dying. Regardless of their opinion of homosexual marriage, every American who believes in democracy should be outraged that any court should take it upon itself to dictate such a social innovation without recourse to democratic process. I daresay that many someones said the same thing WRT making blacks equal under the law, or giving women the right to vote. Part of the point of our system of goverment, IIRC, is to prevent the 'tyranny of the majority.' Marriage Is Already Open to Everyone. In the first place, no law in any state in the United States now or ever has forbidden homosexuals to marry. The law has never asked that a man prove his heterosexuality in order to marry a woman, or a woman hers in order to marry a man. What utter hypocrisy -- just turn the tables, as somebody else already posted, and ask yourself if same-sex marriages were the law, would you want to have to lie and say you were 'gay' if you were in fact 'straight?' What misery to be told you can't have a relationship with another consenting adult, but must lie about who you are. *I* certainly wouldn't want to be married to a gay man, for multiple reasons, but living a lie would be one of them. In order to claim that they are deprived, you have to change the meaning of marriage to include a relationship that it has never included before this generation, anywhere on earth. Wrong again. Others have posted on this, re: berdache early Christian centuries. Then of course there are the once-Biblically-sanctioned multiple wives, child-brides and so forth -- which would certaily be included in any traditional long-term view of marriage. From what I've read on primitive cultures in which the connection between sex and procreation was not made, families were based upon maternal kinship lines. There is IIRC an Amazon Basin tribe in which the mother's brothers are considered closer kin to her children than the father, who is more involved with _his_ sisters' children than his own. Still other existing groups have both paternal and maternal clan lines/kinships. And yet, throughout the history of human society -- even in societies that tolerated relatively open homosexuality at some stages of life -- it was always expected that children would be born into and raised by families consisting of a father and mother. Nope - see the above. Now if he'd said raised by families consisting of women and men he'd be correct, in that many (most?) pre-modern Western families were extended, with uncles and aunts and cousins and grandparents all living in close proximity, if not the same house/compound. The nuclear family hasn't been the norm until quite recently, culturally speaking. So not only are two sexes required in order to conceive children, children also learn their sex-role expectations from the parents in their own family. In extended families, there were always adults of both sexes to model on - which I personally do think is important, but see the reseach/studies I posted on children of same-sex parents: the bulk of it denies negative effects on children of same-sex families. Of course, in our current society we are two generations into the systematic destruction of the institution of marriage. In my childhood, it was rare to know someone whose parents were divorced; now, it seems almost as rare to find someone whose parents have never been divorced. Well, we _could_ make it harder to get married in the first place -- frex halt the ludicrous spectacle of two tweenagers getting married on a drunken whim in Las Vegas, say. Require that all couples (straight and gay) go through pre-marital counseling, and have a suitable waiting period. The damage caused to children by divorce and illegitimate birth is obvious and devastating. While apologists for the current system are quick to blame poverty resulting from deadbeat dads as the cause, the children themselves know this is ludicrous. Is he thinking of requiring licenses to have children? Perhaps not a bad idea, but implementing it fairly would be
Re: Bases
Julia Thompson wrote: In base N, to check to see if a number is divisible by N-1, just add the digits, and if their sum is divisible by N-1, the number itself is. So in base 10, if the sum of the digits of a number add up to 9 or 18 or 27, etc., the number is divisible by 9. If N-1 is a square, a similar divisibility test will work on sqrt(N-1). So if the sum of digits of a number in base 10 is divisible by 3, the number itself is divisible by 3. No, the correct form of the test is: if N-1 is not a prime number, then the same test works for the _divisors_ of N-1. And there's also a simple test for N+1 and (N+1)'s divisors: if the sum of the even-ordered digits and the sum of the odd-ordered digits differ by a multiple of the divisor under test, then the number is divisible by it. For example, 8074 is divisible by 11 in base 10. Base 12 has easier divisibility tests for more numbers, though. Yes, but we gain useless numbers, like 13, and lose useful numbers, like 5. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIPED WELL SIAD AND WELL MENT BIT GO REAS ORIGINAL POST Let me disagree vehemently with Jan on one point. We have absolutely no justification for any ill will towards those that benefit from outsourcing and anyone with a brain larger than a pea should be able to understand that - If by those you are refering to the people in Indea working for slave wages, then you are not disagreeing with me at all. If, on the other hand, you think that the Indian slave masters who are getting rich from this scheem are not partly to blame then you `are` disagreeing with me. It doesn't bother me if you think Im an SOB for this opinion, just as long as you think of me as an SOB for the right reasons. especially in this most capitalist of all nations. We're our positions reversed I don't think anyone here would hesitate for a second to take a relatively well paid position if it was offered to them. But they are not taking relativly well paid positions. They are taking slave wages. What could possibly be right about that? And don't start telling me how bad off their countries economy is, becouse that is their issue. If their society could support it's own companies without steeling the jobs from others, then there would not be any issue here, it would be free trade and we wouldn't even be talking about this. But that isn't the case, so we are. And I would support a democracy like India long before I would back Pakistan. Not least because Pakistan has a history of backing terrorism including al Qaeda, or because of their non-democratic government. I agree with that as well, and I was trying to make a point by personification. Let me try again: So would I, right after Packistan made outsourcing my job to Indea uneconomical. There is right and there is wrong, and then their is right for the US citizen and wrong for the US citizen. Remember logical and emotional responses do not necisarily have to be consistent. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
What I didn't add: the main reason for moving the ST was to bring property tax relief. In other words, shift the tax burden from the well-off (property owners) to the less-well-off (the poor, who spend a much higher percentage of their income and thus are much more affected by increases in sales tax). -- Tom Beck my LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tomfodw/ I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never thought I'd see the last. - Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
--- Tom Beck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In other words, shift the tax burden from the well-off (property owners) to the less-well-off (the poor, who spend a much higher percentage of their income and thus are much more affected by increases in sales tax). Or, of course, to shift the tax burden from investment to consumption... = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [L3]Re: Orson Scott Card's take on Homosexual 'Marriage' and Civilization
On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 02:41:36PM -0800, Deborah Harrell wrote: --- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By Orson Scott Card February 15, 2004 Homosexual Marriage and Civilization Marriage Is Already Open to Everyone. In the first place, no law in any state in the United States now or ever has forbidden homosexuals to marry. The law has never asked that a man prove his heterosexuality in order to marry a woman, or a woman hers in order to marry a man. What utter hypocrisy -- You can say that again. How can anyone make this argument with a straight face? Since I have only seen religious people making the argument, I wonder how they would react to someone claiming that the country guarantees freedom to practice religion, as long as the religion they choose is __. It is just silly. Have these people let religion rot their brain so that they can't see the absurdity, or are they just extremely hypocritical? In order to claim that they are deprived, you have to change the meaning of marriage to include a relationship that it has never included before this generation, anywhere on earth. Wrong again. Yup. I guess Netherlands and Belgium are not on earth. They steal from me what I treasure most, and gain for themselves nothing at all. They won't be married. They'll just be playing dress-up in their parents' clothes. sad This is just pathetic - is he losing his wife? children? tax breaks? social standing as a successful sire? No, on all counts. Good one word description for Card's entire rant. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
OSC
Deborah wrote: Debbi Feeling Quarrelsome Today Maru :-/ You know what I find particularly interesting about OSC's paranoid rant is when you juxtapose it with the message behind Ender's game - didn't Ender and his boys wipe out an entire race after being attacked by them and then find out that the whole war was based upon a cultural misunderstanding? Card has all of these entrenched ideas that are more a product of his own experience and religious beliefs than of empirical data or historical fact or, for that matter, an attempt to empathize with whose he condemns. Maybe we should suggest he read his own book. G -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
- Original Message - From: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 5:17 PM Subject: Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes --- Tom Beck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In other words, shift the tax burden from the well-off (property owners) to the less-well-off (the poor, who spend a much higher percentage of their income and thus are much more affected by increases in sales tax). Or, of course, to shift the tax burden from investment to consumption... Which would favor those who have a higher investment to consumption ratio. Since investments, even including net worth of houses, is extremely focused (the ratio for the mean/median household wealth is about 4 or so) it is hard for me to accept anything that would decrease the taxes paid by the wealthiest and increase the taxes paid by those with the least amount of money. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [L3]Re: Orson Scott Card's take on Homosexual 'Marriage' and Civilization
Wrong again. Others have posted on this, re: berdache early Christian centuries. I would take comments on early Christians condoning homosexual marriages with a very large grain of salt. I am associated with More Light Presbyterians, who are working to have the church accept gays as elders, deacons, and ministers. If early Christians really did have homosexual marriages, it is very unlikely that this would not have been mentioned. Proving a negative is hard, but I know of no credible source saying that early Christian theology was consistent with homosexual marriages. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
Jan wrote: But they are not taking relativly well paid positions. They are taking slave wages. What could possibly be right about that? And don't start telling me how bad off their countries economy is, becouse that is their issue. If their society could support it's own companies without steeling the jobs from others, then there would not be any issue here, it would be free trade and we wouldn't even be talking about this. But that isn't the case, so we are. Jan, wages are relative. Ritu has said that a person can eat on $1 a day in India. Here you can't get a cup of coffee for a dollar. In fact, from what I understand, the outsourced jobs pay an excellent wage in comparison with other jobs. Remember logical and emotional responses do not necisarily have to be consistent. That's true, but, IMO, illogical emotional responses are unproductive or even destructive. One thing I haven't heard anyone mention is the fact that the more money once-poor countrys make in this manner, the more expendable income they have... -- Doug ...and no one's an SOB 8^) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:11 PM Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom -- Doug ...and no one's an SOB 8^) IIRC, several Lassies were SOBs. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Guess the rest of us haven't a prayer
www.presidentialprayerteam.org Why does this bother me so much? Since I have no fear whatsoever that being Jewish (and, therefore, not being saved as these Christians put it) means I'm going to hell (as a Jew, I don't believe in anything like hell), why does it bother me that people like this delude themselves that Jews (and, by definition, Muslims, Hindus, etc.) are going to hell? It's a free country; they have the right to be wrong. I guess it's because, as a Jew, I'm aware of the 2 millennia during which so-called Christians did not just believe Jews were damned; they actively tried to send us to hell prematurely. Or they forced us to convert. And in every other way tried to convince us that their Christian love was better. I guess I don't like any ideology that enshrines discrimination, even when those engaging in the discrimination can't really take any practical steps to harm those they would discriminate against. I also don't like the implied arrogance. I wonder if they would pray for Joe Lieberman, if he had become veep. I suppose they'd pray for him to see the light (as they see it). Note: I'm not accusing Bush himself of being like these people. One of the few favorable things I can say about Dubya is that he appears to be more religiously tolerant than his more fervent Christian followers. Not that we need his approval to be Jewish, but he seems genuinely tolerant of non-Christian religions. Still, this is most definitely his base, people who think like this self-appointed Presidential Prayer Team. They represent a small minority of Americans, yet have a greatly exaggerated voice in the Republican Party and in the Bush Administration. So even if Bush himself is not as extreme, he can't but be influenced by them. And, as a member of not only a minority faith, but a faith persecuted for two thousand years by people who think very much like members of this Prayer Team, I think I have a right to be pissed off and apprehensive at the idea of people like this having the President's ear. (By the way, Catholics shouldn't be too pleased with these people, either, since it is an article of faith among extreme right-wing Protestants that Catholicism isn't really Christianity; read the Bob Jones University Web site.) -- Tom Beck my LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tomfodw/ I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never thought I'd see the last. - Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
test the nation
should the east coasters provide answers for the rest of the country? OSL Kevin T. - VRWC My cat's breath smells like cat food! (or, this is my friday night? sob) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
Or, of course, to shift the tax burden from investment to consumption... Except, the poor have no choice but to consume (we all have to consume SOMETHING), and nothing to invest (because they've spent all their little money). If you have to increase the sales tax, at least exempt necessities such as food and shelter. But the initial story posted here indicated they were going to END such an exemption. -- Tom Beck my LiveJournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tomfodw/ I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never thought I'd see the last. - Dr. Jerry Pournelle -- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 08:22:42PM -0500, Tom Beck wrote: If you have to increase the sales tax, at least exempt necessities such as food and shelter. But the initial story posted here indicated they were going to END such an exemption. Right. Encouraging savings is a very good idea with the country the way it is now (high debt, high current account deficit, low retirement savings, aging demographics). But savings comes out of DISCRETIONARY spending. Taxing consumption is not specific enough. The taxes need to fall on DISCRETIONARY consumption, not all consumption. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: test the nation
At 08:17 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote: Kevin wrote: should the east coasters provide answers for the rest of the country? OSL Sure, why not. Which answers would those be, BTW? And what's OSL? Kevin T. - VRWC My cat's breath smells like cat food! (or, this is my friday night? sob) OK, everyone's an sob... -- Doug can't always be right 8^) It means Obligatory Second Line. OSL Oh, some fox show, based on a british show. a national IQ test. Kevin T. - VRWC Don't feel so smart ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Bush's Economic Indicator: 2 New Jobs
Just found the title amusing... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31587-2004Mar4.html or http://tinyurl.com/ytu6x Prompted by the president, chassis-maker Les DenHerder said the tax cuts Bush backed might allow him to hire two or three more people. When he says he's going to hire two more, that's really good news, Bush said. A lot of people are feeling confident and optimistic about our future so they can say, 'I'm going to hire two more.' They can sit here and tell the president in front of all the cameras, 'I'm going to hire two more people.' That's confidence! -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
At 08:22 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote: Or, of course, to shift the tax burden from investment to consumption... Except, the poor have no choice but to consume (we all have to consume SOMETHING), and nothing to invest (because they've spent all their little money). If you have to increase the sales tax, at least exempt necessities such as food and shelter. But the initial story posted here indicated they were going to END such an exemption. -- Tom Beck So first your are for keeping property taxes, now you want to eliminate them? Sounds like a Kerry backer. joking But maybe you mean rent should be deductible? Against state or federal income? Both? Sales tax on a house purchase can be claimed against federal income taxes. Actually what I referred to was tax on clothing which could equal shelter, a basic need. As far as food goes, cooked food is now taxed as well as some liquids. (Milk and water are not taxed here). The people who want to lower the tax have a study that says on average out of 21 meal times a week only 6 use home cooked food, i.e. was not taxed. So if the overall tax is reduced from 6 to 4% and the store bought food is now taxed, the person saves 20%. (Not making any claims about that data, just passing it along. In fact if the number was 7 out of 21, there would be no gain, and a loss if they use more home food.) The true measure would be overall household spending. The first site I found had NZ data from 1999 and another from Cincinnati. Clothing and food accounted for 20 to 28% of household spending. (Minus rent/mortgage; there are probably other services that aren't taxed.). The poorer did spend higher for them, but the highest was in the low middle range. However, a household would have to spend more than 33% on food and clothing for the sales tax change to be bad. I will agree right here that the poorest may be doing just that, but would also assume that they are getting other assistance. Hmmm, now I'm confused. The people pushing this plan say there'd be enough savings to eliminate property taxes. How can this be if everyone is spending less? I don't know, but their other point's are: consumption tax catches (almost) everyone (vs income tax), easier enforcement, and easier to apply. Kevin T. - VRWC I need more data ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:11 PM Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom -- Doug ...and no one's an SOB 8^) IIRC, several Lassies were SOBs. The father of my dog was an SOB. But I don't think that anyone participating on this list is an SOB. The closest I would believe would be raised by wolves. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
At 06:01 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote: What I didn't add: the main reason for moving the ST was to bring property tax relief. In other words, shift the tax burden from the well-off (property owners) to the less-well-off (the poor, who spend a much higher percentage of their income and thus are much more affected by increases in sales tax). -- Tom Beck As a well off property owner in a state where the tax is uneven between neighboring houses, to say nothing of towns and counties, I think the property tax should be eliminated. Property tax means you are just renting the land from the government. Now saying that, I think a modified property tax should be put into play. My top reform would be making government and other exempt groups pay it. I will agree it's stupid for a city to pay taxes to itself for the police building, something like that; yet if a piece of property is for sale and the city can bid higher because it doesn't have to include tax payments in the valuation, everyone loses. The tax payers lose money and a developer loses a change to make an investment, which could be taxed. But worse is an agency owning land in another tax area. Instead of losing money to themselves, they are taking it away from the other tax body. Second is a simplified cheap one payer system based on square footage (of the land) and usage. Everyone pays, just to keep it honest. If you and neighbor have an acre lot but your house is 100k and his is 500k, so what? His does not use more services. He paid taxes on building or buying the house itself. If he uses more water or electric, he pays for it. A rental property should pay more, but not twice the rate; just enough to mark the difference for services. My neighbor shouldn't be paying 1/4 what I pay, just because I just bought mine last year and he was here 30 years. (Not basing this on real world example, except for a few people we are all new homeowners.) And I don't want them paying my high rate, I want everyone to pay a lower rate. Kevin T. - VRWC Enough for now, time for bed ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
Kevin Tarr wrote: At 10:45 PM 3/4/2004, you wrote: Kevin Tarr wrote: The debate here is to lower the sales tax from 6 to 4%, but tax everything. Currently uncooked food and clothes are exempt. The hue and cry of course is that this will unfairly target the poor. But most studies show that overall the consumer will see lower taxes and with a single tax structure retailers could collect taxes easier. What about dealing with people who are tax-exempt? That was more of a pain than dealing with non-taxable items when I was having to figure out how much sales tax we owed each month when I did that for the company I worked for. Julia What about them? If my register already has a button for non-taxable items, it should be able to handle a whole order that is non-taxed; basically a wholesale or B to B order. How is a person non-exempt? You mean tax-exempt? People aren't, my bad. Eligible businesses and organizations are, and resellers are. People do the purchasing for those. Generally you have to provide a tax ID number if you're a reseller or a particular form demonstrating that you can purchase things tax-exempt, and you need to do this before the cashier starts to ring up your purchases. And it's kind of a pain to be in line behind someone who is making tax-exempt purchases. :) What I didn't add: the main reason for moving the ST was to bring property tax relief. That sounds about like the reasoning I've heard for lots of other ST increases. Julia who spent 10 years in a state with no sales tax and extremely limited income tax ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
- Original Message - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:38 PM Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:11 PM Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom -- Doug ...and no one's an SOB 8^) IIRC, several Lassies were SOBs. The father of my dog was an SOB. But I don't think that anyone participating on this list is an SOB. The closest I would believe would be raised by wolves. :) Julia Well, I shouldn't argue for argument's sake, but that hasn't stopped me before. I know my cats have hit keys while I've been writing posts, so I would guess that a SOB might have a paw in an occasional post. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:38 PM Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:11 PM Subject: Re: Race to the Bottom -- Doug ...and no one's an SOB 8^) IIRC, several Lassies were SOBs. The father of my dog was an SOB. But I don't think that anyone participating on this list is an SOB. The closest I would believe would be raised by wolves. :) Julia Well, I shouldn't argue for argument's sake, but that hasn't stopped me before. I know my cats have hit keys while I've been writing posts, so I would guess that a SOB might have a paw in an occasional post. :-) Actually, I've had great difficulty in getting a dog to contribute to e-mail. (I've tried. And they've gotten annoyed.) But maybe others have had different experiences. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bush's Economic Indicator: 2 New Jobs
At 10:26 PM 3/5/2004, you wrote: Just found the title amusing... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31587-2004Mar4.html or http://tinyurl.com/ytu6x Prompted by the president, chassis-maker Les DenHerder said the tax cuts Bush backed might allow him to hire two or three more people. When he says he's going to hire two more, that's really good news, Bush said. A lot of people are feeling confident and optimistic about our future so they can say, 'I'm going to hire two more.' They can sit here and tell the president in front of all the cameras, 'I'm going to hire two more people.' That's confidence! -- Doug Sounds good to me; it's not like he was talking to Bill Ford . There are 5.7 million small businesses. If half of them hire one person it'd reduce the unemployment rate to 2.8%. That's not going to happen of course. Kevin T. - VRWC Now I'm going to bed, without supper ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: States Bent on Collecting Internet Taxes
Robert Seeberger wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2cid=528u=/ap/20040304/ap_on_hi_te/internet_sales_tax_7printer=1 Remember all those gifts you bought online during the holidays? Now it's time to pay sales tax on them, at least so say the income tax forms of 20 states. The latest to outstretch that revenue-seeking hand are New York and California, which this year added a line requiring taxpayers to declare any tax they owe on out-of-state purchases. Wow. I already did my New York State income tax, and totally missed it. (Just copied last year's form, with minor changes to the numbers...) I get the impression that they didn't really think it through when they put the line on the income tax form. If asked, I'll just say that one of my children purchased the items. Their incomes are still low enough that they are exempt from filing income tax. ---David Or I left it blank in protest. Yeah, that's the ticket! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bases, was Re: Stirling engine queries
Robert Seeberger wrote: ... I'd say that this stuff gets pretty fuzzy. One could argue that 5 is more important than 11 and 13. On the other hand, one could say that ending tests are better than sum of digits tests, and conclude that 12 is superior since it replaces sum of digits tests for 3,9,... with ending tests. Is this the kind of thing you were thinking about? ---David Who needs whole number divisibility when you have fractions and can work decimals? You would have to do these things no matter what the base you use, in the real world. Getting people to change bases would be whole magnitudes of difficulty greater than getting them to go metric. G xponent Numbers game Maru rob Of course we could use base 7 or whatever, and get by almost as well. And I agree that getting anyone to change would be hopeless. I sometimes teach a math course for future elementary school teachers, and wind up spending a week teaching them the metric system, for college credit (!!). At the end of it, half of them say things like a cubic meter is a liter, which weighs a gram. (So be prepared to teach your own children math...) Rob, the point of this discussion was to explain why we picked the base we did. Having ten fingers is obviously a key factor, but there are examples of cultures that used base 20 or 60, so it's not exactly the only one. I imagine that we would use base 12 if we had 6 fingers. But suppose we had 3 hands with 7 fingers each. Would we really use base 21? ---David Four score and seven ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Race to the Bottom
From: Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] About that Indian chap you quoted above, the only way he was telling the truth was if each US developer is paid around USD 60,000 pm. Is that the going rate in the US? No, for a very poorly paid, just out of School developer who can't show that they know how to code maybe. Actualy scratch that, it would have to be a QA trainee (like the sit and play video games and complain about it kind) with no degree. The low end rate is about 120,000 for someone with 4 year experience and a CS degree. Are you serious? You're in CA, right? Around here, 4 years and a CS degree will probably pay no more than $60K and probably a bit less than that for most C programming jobs. Damn, I'm working in the wrong state... _ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bases, was Re: Stirling engine queries
Julia Thompson wrote: David Hobby wrote: ... So base 12 is not bad, it gives nice tests for 2,4,8,... for 3,9,..., for 11 since 12 = 11 + 1 and it gives a poor test for 13 since 12^2 = 11*13 + 1. The situation for 5 and for 7 seems to be even worse. Contrast this with base 10, which gives a good test for 5 but has a worse test for 11 and none for 13. I'd say that this stuff gets pretty fuzzy. One could argue that 5 is more important than 11 and 13. On the other hand, one could say that ending tests are better than sum of digits tests, and conclude that 12 is superior since it replaces sum of digits tests for 3,9,... with ending tests. Is this the kind of thing you were thinking about? The sum of digits test for 3 only works because it's the square root of 9. As Alberto(?) pointed out, it works for all factors of 9. Well, that's a poor example, but you get the idea. Base 12 would give better tests for more numbers. And a sum of digits test would work for 11 there. Julia As would an alternating sum of digits test for 13, similar to the base 10 test for divisibility by 11. (Here's a good background link: http://www.jimloy.com/number/divis.htm ) We could also look at the problem in terms of which common fractions are represented by terminating decimals or by those with simple patterns of repetition. This is essentially the same thing as considering divisibility tests, and may seem more sensible. For example, in base 10 we have ending tests for divisibility by 2,4,5,8 and so on, and these are the denominators of the fractions that have terminating decimals. (1/2 = .5, 1/4 = .25, etc) We have sum of digits tests for 3 and 9, these correspond to the simple patterns: 1/3 = .3... and 1/9 = .11... Finally, 11 and 7 have divisibility tests which are poor and awful respectively. Now look at the decimal expansions of their reciprocals: 1/11 = .0909090909... and 1/7 = .142857142857... ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bases, was Re: Stirling engine queries
David Hobby wrote: At the end of it, half of them say things like a cubic meter is a liter, which weighs a gram. While we're already talking about changing our number systems, maybe we should change metric to make that true, because those definitions make a *lot* more sense than the real ones. :-) Honestly, why the heck is a liter defined as a cubic *decimeter*? Granted, a cubic meter would make an awfully big base unit of volume, but it wouldn't really be any more awkward than a gram, which is too *small* to be really useful in everyday life. If the metric units weren't so awkwardly sized, there would be no need for two different sets of metric base units, cgs (cm, grams, seconds) and SI (meters, kilograms, seconds). Each set has to fudge one of the units by a factor of 1000 to get it to play well together with the other unit. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Science Fiction-themed online store . http://www.sloan3d.com/store Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bases, was Re: Stirling engine queries
Alberto Monteiro wrote: David Hobby wrote: However, a base 12 counting system would have been much better; No, it wouldn't Well, a little better. A little worse. Depending how you count, you can argue that 12 has more factors than 10. This must be worth something, since I don't hear anyone pushing for prime bases such as 11. Agreed, it's not a big deal. It might be more to make a number base feel comfortable than a great aid in calculations. The problem with base 12 is that it has _2_ twice and _3_ once when you factor it, so that the practical man rules to check if a number is divisible by another would get a higher degree of confusion. Base 6 would be a much better choice than base 12. I'm not sure what you mean. I don't find the divisibility tests confusing. Some are simpler than others, yes. And we may well disagree on how to compare degrees of simplicity. I don't see many advantages in base 6 over base 10: the only one that comes to my mind is that base 10 has simple rules to check if a number is divisible by 2, 5, 3, 9 and 11; I think the rules for 4,6 and 8 are also simple. (Again, here's a link for background: http://www.jimloy.com/number/divis.htm ) with base 6, there would be simple rules for 2, 3, 5 and 7; maybe losing 11 and gaining 7 could count as a minor improvement. I would say that there are also simple rules for 4, 8, 9 and 10 when working base 6. (This is making base 6 look good. But there should be a way to lift divisibility rules from base 6 to base 12 (=2*6), at the price of adding some complexity.) OTOH, base 12 would have simple rules for 2, 3, 4, 6, 11 and 13, and since the base-10 rules for 4 and 6 are one bit less simple than the rules for 4 and 6 in base-12, we would _lose_ the rules for 5 and gain the rules for 13 - which is a bad trade. Again, I would count more rules as simple. I see that you are counting the base 10 rule for 4 as one bit less simple than the base 10 rule for 2. Would the base 10 rule for divisibility by 8 be two bits less simple? This is fuzzy, as I said. I would count the base 10 rule for 3 as much less simple than the base 10 rule for 8, even. I guess it depends on what size numbers one is expecting to use the divisibility tests on-- I'm imagining large numbers as input. ---David The divisibility by 3 test runs in linear time, Maru. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
