Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Matic, I am struggling with Ubuntu on this issue. The Nvidia driver needs the 'Composite' function disabled in order to function in 3D. This required the use of the Unity-2D package to disable the 3D used in the Ubuntu desktop effects. This worked fine in Ubuntu 12.04. Unfortuately the developers have decided that the eye candy is essential to their desktop and have deprecated the Unity-2D package(since 13.04). So in a more recent release of Ubuntu the 'Composite disable' in the xorg.conf with the Nvidia driver will yield a blank screen and a core dump. I'd certainly love it if someone could offer a solution aside from stepping back to an older release. Nic out On 03/10/2014 05:23 AM, Matic Kisovec wrote: Dear everybody, to my recent experience not everything is good in the stereo world. Since I see that others don't have these problems (and I am happy/sad to see that the same exact combinations work without problems) I would just like to add my experience. For the past 4 months I have been struggling to configure a stereo setup for viewing structures in Pymol. I got the VG278HR and PNY Quadro K600 connected over the original DVI-D cable. Since then I was unable to get anything in stereo on Linux (tried Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Fedora). Unfortunately I get a blank/black screen whenever I use the stereo option in xorg.conf. Also tried changing the motherboard and CPU but got the same result. In Windows the demo stuff from Nvidia works just fine but again I have problems with Pymol. So far the only way to see anything connected to molecular structures in Windows was via DVI-to-HDMI cable but due to HDMI restrictions the quality isn't as good as it would be over DVI-D. If I use DVI-D that was shipped with the monitor the quadro card is detected in Pymol but the monitor doesn't switch to stereo. I have been in contact with the company that makes Quadro cards (PNY) but they were unable to help me. I also contacted some very kind users of CCP4BB and they kindly answered a bunch of question regarding specific setup options. Thanks again! Still there was no success so far. I am slowly giving up on the stereo so if anybody has any ideas/thoughts what could be wrong/done I would greatly appreciate any insight. Kind regards, Matic On 06. 03. 2014 19:32, White, Mark wrote: Alexy I have the ASUS 27" stereo LCD monitors with built in emitter connected to Linux WS with the cheaper Quadro cards. The monitor comes with a special DVI cable that caries the sync signal and thus it does not need the 3-pin connector. The new LCD stereo monitors produce superb 3D images that are much crisper than we used to get with CRT displays. Best regards Mark Sent from my iPhone On Mar 6, 2014, at 12:01 PM, "Alexey Rozov" alexey.ro...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Sorry, if this question somewhat off-top to the actual discussion, but to my understanding one does need the 3-pin connector to operate 3D under Linux even for the monitors with the built-in emitter. It appears to be necessary to guide the emitter, or am I wrong about it? I'd be thankful if anyone can advise me on that since it looks like a big problem to acquire the commercial connectors and cables. I think I have seen an older discussion on CCP4BB where the importance of the 3-pin connector was emphasized... Alexey On 6 March 2014 18:30, mesters mest...@biochem.uni-luebeck.de wrote: Hello Moutse, as you noted correctly, the ASUS VG278H (HR or HE) comes in two flavours, one with build in emitter (120 Hz, HR model) and one without (144 Hz, HE model).
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Hi Nic, There is no reason that you have to use the Unity desktop at all. I prefer using the XFCE4 desktop myself. It is easily installable from the Ubuntu repositories and then you just have to select it at login. Cheers, Rob On Tue, 2014-03-11 14:44 EDT, Nic Steussy csteu...@purdue.edu wrote: Matic, I am struggling with Ubuntu on this issue. The Nvidia driver needs the 'Composite' function disabled in order to function in 3D. This required the use of the Unity-2D package to disable the 3D used in the Ubuntu desktop effects. This worked fine in Ubuntu 12.04. Unfortuately the developers have decided that the eye candy is essential to their desktop and have deprecated the Unity-2D package(since 13.04). So in a more recent release of Ubuntu the 'Composite disable' in the xorg.conf with the Nvidia driver will yield a blank screen and a core dump. I'd certainly love it if someone could offer a solution aside from stepping back to an older release. Nic out On 03/10/2014 05:23 AM, Matic Kisovec wrote: Dear everybody, to my recent experience not everything is good in the stereo world. Since I see that others don't have these problems (and I am happy/sad to see that the same exact combinations work without problems) I would just like to add my experience. For the past 4 months I have been struggling to configure a stereo setup for viewing structures in Pymol. I got the VG278HR and PNY Quadro K600 connected over the original DVI-D cable. Since then I was unable to get anything in stereo on Linux (tried Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Fedora). Unfortunately I get a blank/black screen whenever I use the stereo option in xorg.conf. Also tried changing the motherboard and CPU but got the same result. In Windows the demo stuff from Nvidia works just fine but again I have problems with Pymol. So far the only way to see anything connected to molecular structures in Windows was via DVI-to-HDMI cable but due to HDMI restrictions the quality isn't as good as it would be over DVI-D. If I use DVI-D that was shipped with the monitor the quadro card is detected in Pymol but the monitor doesn't switch to stereo. I have been in contact with the company that makes Quadro cards (PNY) but they were unable to help me. I also contacted some very kind users of CCP4BB and they kindly answered a bunch of question regarding specific setup options. Thanks again! Still there was no success so far. I am slowly giving up on the stereo so if anybody has any ideas/thoughts what could be wrong/done I would greatly appreciate any insight. Kind regards, Matic On 06. 03. 2014 19:32, White, Mark wrote: Alexy I have the ASUS 27 stereo LCD monitors with built in emitter connected to Linux WS with the cheaper Quadro cards. The monitor comes with a special DVI cable that caries the sync signal and thus it does not need the 3-pin connector. The new LCD stereo monitors produce superb 3D images that are much crisper than we used to get with CRT displays. Best regards Mark Sent from my iPhone On Mar 6, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Alexey Rozov alexey.ro...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Sorry, if this question somewhat off-top to the actual discussion, but to my understanding one does need the 3-pin connector to operate 3D under Linux even for the monitors with the built-in emitter. It appears to be necessary to guide the emitter, or am I wrong about it? I'd be thankful if anyone can advise me on that since it looks like a big problem to acquire the commercial connectors and cables. I think I have seen an older discussion on CCP4BB where the importance of the 3-pin connector was emphasized... Alexey On 6 March 2014 18:30, mesters mest...@biochem.uni-luebeck.de wrote: Hello Moutse, as you noted correctly, the ASUS VG278H (HR or HE) comes in two flavours, one with build in emitter (120 Hz, HR model) and one without (144 Hz, HE model). The VG278HR (ships with one pair of shutter glasses) with build in emitter can be used under windows and linux with a cheap nvidia quadro card (the ones without a 3-pin stereo connector). With the VG278HE under windows and a cheap nvidia quadro, you will need the nvidia emitter that uses a usb port for driving the emitter. To operate the VG278HE under linux requires a truely expensive quadro card (k4000 and upwards) with an optional (!) 3-pin connector or, purchase an old refurbished quadro card with 3-pin. Have a look at the following link http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-pro-requirements.html, especially the table at the end with the small print explanation 2 and 3 - J. - Am 06.03.14 17:41, schrieb Mouts Ranaivoson: Hi, I am currently also looking for a 3D monitor, and I am particularly attentive to this particular discussion. My interrogation is that does the Asus VG278HE model work under linux ? From previous ccp4bb discussions I understood that only built-in emmitter (like the Asus
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Hi Nic, There is no reason that you have to use the Unity desktop at all. I prefer using the XFCE4 desktop myself. It is easily installable from the Ubuntu repositories and then you just have to select it at login. In one of the xfce4 settings options (Window Manager Tweaks) you can disable display compositing. Cheers, Rob On Tue, 2014-03-11 14:44 EDT, Nic Steussy csteu...@purdue.edu wrote: Matic, I am struggling with Ubuntu on this issue. The Nvidia driver needs the 'Composite' function disabled in order to function in 3D. This required the use of the Unity-2D package to disable the 3D used in the Ubuntu desktop effects. This worked fine in Ubuntu 12.04. Unfortuately the developers have decided that the eye candy is essential to their desktop and have deprecated the Unity-2D package(since 13.04). So in a more recent release of Ubuntu the 'Composite disable' in the xorg.conf with the Nvidia driver will yield a blank screen and a core dump. I'd certainly love it if someone could offer a solution aside from stepping back to an older release. Nic out On 03/10/2014 05:23 AM, Matic Kisovec wrote: Dear everybody, to my recent experience not everything is good in the stereo world. Since I see that others don't have these problems (and I am happy/sad to see that the same exact combinations work without problems) I would just like to add my experience. For the past 4 months I have been struggling to configure a stereo setup for viewing structures in Pymol. I got the VG278HR and PNY Quadro K600 connected over the original DVI-D cable. Since then I was unable to get anything in stereo on Linux (tried Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Fedora). Unfortunately I get a blank/black screen whenever I use the stereo option in xorg.conf. Also tried changing the motherboard and CPU but got the same result. In Windows the demo stuff from Nvidia works just fine but again I have problems with Pymol. So far the only way to see anything connected to molecular structures in Windows was via DVI-to-HDMI cable but due to HDMI restrictions the quality isn't as good as it would be over DVI-D. If I use DVI-D that was shipped with the monitor the quadro card is detected in Pymol but the monitor doesn't switch to stereo. I have been in contact with the company that makes Quadro cards (PNY) but they were unable to help me. I also contacted some very kind users of CCP4BB and they kindly answered a bunch of question regarding specific setup options. Thanks again! Still there was no success so far. I am slowly giving up on the stereo so if anybody has any ideas/thoughts what could be wrong/done I would greatly appreciate any insight. Kind regards, Matic On 06. 03. 2014 19:32, White, Mark wrote: Alexy I have the ASUS 27 stereo LCD monitors with built in emitter connected to Linux WS with the cheaper Quadro cards. The monitor comes with a special DVI cable that caries the sync signal and thus it does not need the 3-pin connector. The new LCD stereo monitors produce superb 3D images that are much crisper than we used to get with CRT displays. Best regards Mark Sent from my iPhone On Mar 6, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Alexey Rozov alexey.ro...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Sorry, if this question somewhat off-top to the actual discussion, but to my understanding one does need the 3-pin connector to operate 3D under Linux even for the monitors with the built-in emitter. It appears to be necessary to guide the emitter, or am I wrong about it? I'd be thankful if anyone can advise me on that since it looks like a big problem to acquire the commercial connectors and cables. I think I have seen an older discussion on CCP4BB where the importance of the 3-pin connector was emphasized... Alexey On 6 March 2014 18:30, mesters mest...@biochem.uni-luebeck.de wrote: Hello Moutse, as you noted correctly, the ASUS VG278H (HR or HE) comes in two flavours, one with build in emitter (120 Hz, HR model) and one without (144 Hz, HE model). The VG278HR (ships with one pair of shutter glasses) with build in emitter can be used under windows and linux with a cheap nvidia quadro card (the ones without a 3-pin stereo connector). With the VG278HE under windows and a cheap nvidia quadro, you will need the nvidia emitter that uses a usb port for driving the emitter. To operate the VG278HE under linux requires a truely expensive quadro card (k4000 and upwards) with an optional (!) 3-pin connector or, purchase an old refurbished quadro card with 3-pin. Have a look at the following link http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-pro-requirements.html, especially the table at the end with the small print explanation 2 and 3 - J. - Am 06.03.14 17:41, schrieb Mouts Ranaivoson: Hi, I am currently also looking for a 3D monitor, and I am particularly attentive to this particular discussion. My interrogation is that does the Asus VG278HE model work under
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Dear everybody, to my recent experience not everything is good in the stereo world. Since I see that others don't have these problems (and I am happy/sad to see that the same exact combinations work without problems) I would just like to add my experience. For the past 4 months I have been struggling to configure a stereo setup for viewing structures in Pymol. I got the VG278HR and PNY Quadro K600 connected over the original DVI-D cable. Since then I was unable to get anything in stereo on Linux (tried Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Fedora). Unfortunately I get a blank/black screen whenever I use the stereo option in xorg.conf. Also tried changing the motherboard and CPU but got the same result. In Windows the demo stuff from Nvidia works just fine but again I have problems with Pymol. So far the only way to see anything connected to molecular structures in Windows was via DVI-to-HDMI cable but due to HDMI restrictions the quality isn't as good as it would be over DVI-D. If I use DVI-D that was shipped with the monitor the quadro card is detected in Pymol but the monitor doesn't switch to stereo. I have been in contact with the company that makes Quadro cards (PNY) but they were unable to help me. I also contacted some very kind users of CCP4BB and they kindly answered a bunch of question regarding specific setup options. Thanks again! Still there was no success so far. I am slowly giving up on the stereo so if anybody has any ideas/thoughts what could be wrong/done I would greatly appreciate any insight. Kind regards, Matic On 06. 03. 2014 19:32, White, Mark wrote: Alexy I have the ASUS 27 stereo LCD monitors with built in emitter connected to Linux WS with the cheaper Quadro cards. The monitor comes with a special DVI cable that caries the sync signal and thus it does not need the 3-pin connector. The new LCD stereo monitors produce superb 3D images that are much crisper than we used to get with CRT displays. Best regards Mark Sent from my iPhone On Mar 6, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Alexey Rozov alexey.ro...@gmail.commailto:alexey.ro...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Sorry, if this question somewhat off-top to the actual discussion, but to my understanding one does need the 3-pin connector to operate 3D under Linux even for the monitors with the built-in emitter. It appears to be necessary to guide the emitter, or am I wrong about it? I'd be thankful if anyone can advise me on that since it looks like a big problem to acquire the commercial connectors and cables. I think I have seen an older discussion on CCP4BB where the importance of the 3-pin connector was emphasized... Alexey On 6 March 2014 18:30, mesters mest...@biochem.uni-luebeck.demailto:mest...@biochem.uni-luebeck.de wrote: Hello Moutse, as you noted correctly, the ASUS VG278H (HR or HE) comes in two flavours, one with build in emitter (120 Hz, HR model) and one without (144 Hz, HE model). The VG278HR (ships with one pair of shutter glasses) with build in emitter can be used under windows and linux with a cheap nvidia quadro card (the ones without a 3-pin stereo connector). With the VG278HE under windows and a cheap nvidia quadro, you will need the nvidia emitter that uses a usb port for driving the emitter. To operate the VG278HE under linux requires a truely expensive quadro card (k4000 and upwards) with an optional (!) 3-pin connector or, purchase an old refurbished quadro card with 3-pin. Have a look at the following link http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-pro-requirements.html, especially the table at the end with the small print explanation 2 and 3 - J. - Am 06.03.14 17:41, schrieb Mouts Ranaivoson: Hi, I am currently also looking for a 3D monitor, and I am particularly attentive to this particular discussion. My interrogation is that does the Asus VG278HE model work under linux ? From previous ccp4bb discussions I understood that only built-in emmitter (like the Asus VG278HR) are suitable for that, but maybe I misunderstood... Thank you very much for your help, Moutse. Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 09:55:15 +0100 From: mest...@biochem.uni-luebeck.demailto:mest...@biochem.uni-luebeck.de Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UKmailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Hi, this is probaly due to the transition from old TFT style to new IPS panel based monitors... Several new passive 3d monitors are hitting the market such as AOC d2769Vh and the Philips Gioco 278G4. Both are based on 27 IPS Monitor panels. A list of possible monitors can be found at Tridef (many are old but new models are listed), https://www.tridef.com/products/pc-licensed-products. Problem with passive stereo is, you will half the resolution in the vertical direction. It is a problem if you are looking at wire-models of structures in pymol and especially fine-wire electron density mesh and models in coot as those noticably loose resolution
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Hi Matic, I'm using a Quadro 600 on an Asus VG278HR screen on RHEL 6.3. All is golden. I created xorg.conf (below) by running nvidia-xconfig after installation of the Nvidia driver. (Recent Nvidia drivers are buggy and you'll have to wear your stereo glasses upside down from time to time because the stereo pairs are flipped, but I guess you'd be happy to get to that point.) After creation of the xorg.conf file, I added two options Option Stereo 10 and Option Composite Disable in sections Screen and Extensions, respectively. Hope that helps. Andreas # nvidia-xconfig: X configuration file generated by nvidia-xconfig # nvidia-xconfig: version 331.20 (buildmeister@swio-display-x86-rhel47-05) Wed Oct 30 18:20:53 PDT 2013 Section ServerLayout Identifier Layout0 Screen 0 Screen0 0 0 InputDeviceKeyboard0 CoreKeyboard InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer EndSection Section Files FontPath/usr/share/fonts/default/Type1 EndSection Section InputDevice # generated from default Identifier Mouse0 Driver mouse Option Protocol auto Option Device /dev/input/mice Option Emulate3Buttons no Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 EndSection Section InputDevice # generated from data in /etc/sysconfig/keyboard Identifier Keyboard0 Driver kbd Option XkbLayout gb Option XkbModel pc105 EndSection Section Monitor Identifier Monitor0 VendorName Unknown ModelName Unknown HorizSync 28.0 - 33.0 VertRefresh 43.0 - 72.0 Option DPMS EndSection Section Device Identifier Device0 Driver nvidia VendorName NVIDIA Corporation EndSection Section Screen Identifier Screen0 Device Device0 MonitorMonitor0 DefaultDepth24 Option Stereo 10 SubSection Display Depth 24 Modes 1920x1080 1920x1080_120 EndSubSection EndSection Section Extensions Option Composite Disable EndSection On 10/03/2014 9:23, Matic Kisovec wrote: Dear everybody, to my recent experience not everything is good in the stereo world. Since I see that others don't have these problems (and I am happy/sad to see that the same exact combinations work without problems) I would just like to add my experience. For the past 4 months I have been struggling to configure a stereo setup for viewing structures in Pymol. I got the VG278HR and PNY Quadro K600 connected over the original DVI-D cable. Since then I was unable to get anything in stereo on Linux (tried Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Fedora). Unfortunately I get a blank/black screen whenever I use the stereo option in xorg.conf. Also tried changing the motherboard and CPU but got the same result. In Windows the demo stuff from Nvidia works just fine but again I have problems with Pymol. So far the only way to see anything connected to molecular structures in Windows was via DVI-to-HDMI cable but due to HDMI restrictions the quality isn't as good as it would be over DVI-D. If I use DVI-D that was shipped with the monitor the quadro card is detected in Pymol but the monitor doesn't switch to stereo. I have been in contact with the company that makes Quadro cards (PNY) but they were unable to help me. I also contacted some very kind users of CCP4BB and they kindly answered a bunch of question regarding specific setup options. Thanks again! Still there was no success so far. I am slowly giving up on the stereo so if anybody has any ideas/thoughts what could be wrong/done I would greatly appreciate any insight. Kind regards, Matic -- Andreas Förster Crystallization and X-ray Facility Manager Centre for Structural Biology Imperial College London
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Hi, this is probaly due to the transition from old TFT style to new IPS panel based monitors... Several new passive 3d monitors are hitting the market such as AOC d2769Vh and the Philips Gioco 278G4. Both are based on 27" IPS Monitor panels. A list of possible monitors can be found at Tridef (many are old but new models are listed), https://www.tridef.com/products/pc-licensed-products. Problem with passive stereo is, you will half the resolution in the vertical direction. It is a problem if you are looking at wire-models of structures in pymol and especially fine-wire electron density mesh and models in coot as those noticably loose resolution compared to active stereo screens. Also, passive screens have a pol-filter in place, the fine lines of which you will observe on a white background, the more disturbing the closer the viewing distance to the screen is. So, for general office applications (writing text), the screens are less useful. This is not to big a problem for viewing full screen pictures, games and movies (increased distance to the screen...). Moreover, with passive monitors, as the stereo effect increases with the screen size, the picture looks more "pixeled" compared to active stereo screens. I personally own a AOC d2769Vh and for 3D movies it is great, for coot not that useful if you plan longer sessions. At work, we operate an ASUS VG278HR (active stereo and build in emitter for glasses). Many hardware testers consider this screen the best one available on the market. If you mainly need it for coot, I recommend to change your priorities and buy an active stereo screen such as Asus VG248QE or Asus VG278HR. You do not need an expensive quadro card (600 will do fine) as the VG278HR has build-in emitter for operation with cheap nvidia glasses. It pays off in the long run to invest a few more dollars as you (I assume) will spend a lot of time in front of the this device (so buy the best as you only have one pair of eyes). - J. - Am 05.03.14 23:46, schrieb Shaun Lott: A rather US-centric question on passive 3D monitors... I'm just getting set up in the US, and I'm surprised on how few passive 3D monitors seem to be around - many models seem listed as 'out of stock' when looking in the usual places (Amazon, NewEgg, BestBuys, Walmart etc.) The best deal I have found is for an LG D2343PB-BN (http://www.lg.com/us/commercial/lcd-computer-monitors/lg-D2343PB-BN) at US$274 Does anyone have any experience with this model, or any suggestion about where best to buy 3D monitors in the US? many thanks in advance Shaun -- Dr. Jeroen R. Mesters Deputy, Senior Researcher Lecturer Institute of Biochemistry, University of Lübeck Ratzeburger Allee 160, 23538 Lübeck, Germany phone: +49-451-5004065 (secretariate 5004061) fax: +49-451-5004068 http://www.biochem.uni-luebeck.de http://www.iobcr.org -- If you can look into the seeds of time and tell which grain will grow and which will not, speak then to me who neither beg nor fear (Shakespeare's Macbeth, Act I, Scene 3) -- Disclaimer * This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. * E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. * Employees of the Institute are expressly required not to make defamatory statements and not to infringe or authorize any infringement of copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Any such communication is contrary to
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
I beg to differ on this: Also, passive screens have a pol-filter in place, the fine lines of which you will observe on a white background, the more disturbing the closer the viewing distance to the screen is. So, for general office applications (writing text), the screens are less useful. Our LG D2342P has no issue with office work. I never noticed any thin lines on the screen. In fact I think its 2D display is excellent. I wonder if the issue you have is related to the screen size: the pixels of 27 in screens are bigger than our 22 in screens. Zhijie From: mesters Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 3:55 AM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot Hi, this is probaly due to the transition from old TFT style to new IPS panel based monitors... Several new passive 3d monitors are hitting the market such as AOC d2769Vh and the Philips Gioco 278G4. Both are based on 27 IPS Monitor panels. A list of possible monitors can be found at Tridef (many are old but new models are listed), https://www.tridef.com/products/pc-licensed-products. Problem with passive stereo is, you will half the resolution in the vertical direction. It is a problem if you are looking at wire-models of structures in pymol and especially fine-wire electron density mesh and models in coot as those noticably loose resolution compared to active stereo screens. Also, passive screens have a pol-filter in place, the fine lines of which you will observe on a white background, the more disturbing the closer the viewing distance to the screen is. So, for general office applications (writing text), the screens are less useful. This is not to big a problem for viewing full screen pictures, games and movies (increased distance to the screen...). Moreover, with passive monitors, as the stereo effect increases with the screen size, the picture looks more pixeled compared to active stereo screens. I personally own a AOC d2769Vh and for 3D movies it is great, for coot not that useful if you plan longer sessions. At work, we operate an ASUS VG278HR (active stereo and build in emitter for glasses). Many hardware testers consider this screen the best one available on the market. If you mainly need it for coot, I recommend to change your priorities and buy an active stereo screen such as Asus VG248QE or Asus VG278HR. You do not need an expensive quadro card (600 will do fine) as the VG278HR has build-in emitter for operation with cheap nvidia glasses. It pays off in the long run to invest a few more dollars as you (I assume) will spend a lot of time in front of the this device (so buy the best as you only have one pair of eyes). - J. - Am 05.03.14 23:46, schrieb Shaun Lott: A rather US-centric question on passive 3D monitors... I'm just getting set up in the US, and I'm surprised on how few passive 3D monitors seem to be around - many models seem listed as 'out of stock' when looking in the usual places (Amazon, NewEgg, BestBuys, Walmart etc.) The best deal I have found is for an LG D2343PB-BN (http://www.lg.com/us/commercial/lcd-computer-monitors/lg-D2343PB-BN) at US$274 Does anyone have any experience with this model, or any suggestion about where best to buy 3D monitors in the US? many thanks in advance Shaun -- Dr. Jeroen R. Mesters Deputy, Senior Researcher Lecturer Institute of Biochemistry, University of Lübeck Ratzeburger Allee 160, 23538 Lübeck, Germany phone: +49-451-5004065 (secretariate 5004061) fax: +49-451-5004068 http://www.biochem.uni-luebeck.de http://www.iobcr.org -- If you can look into the seeds of time and tell which grain will grow and which will not, speak then to me who neither beg nor fear (Shakespeare's Macbeth, Act I, Scene 3) -- Disclaimer * This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. * E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Please send us by fax any message containing deadlines as incoming e-mails are not screened for response deadlines. * Employees of the Institute are expressly required not to make defamatory statements and not to infringe or authorize any infringement of copyright or any other legal right by email communications. Any such communication is contrary to Institute policy and outside the scope of the employment of the individual concerned. The Institute
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Every now and then I pipe on this as well. We have Zalman monitors here - I bought them about 4 years ago - when you could not buy them any more in the states. I just bought them on Ebay - they came new in the box directly from China. The person did fed-ex shipping - did not cost any extra, and at the time it was a very cheap way to get these models that were not available in the US. I don’t know if they still sell this way or not - but for me it worked great. The monitors still work, and I agree with Zhijie, the 2D applications look perfect on them. Maybe it’s because I was so used to old, dim, CRT displays. In any event - they are great monitors for normal work, and it’s nice on occasion to use 3D with them. The 3D is OK - not perfect - but I don’t think any are as good as old CRT displays. The 3D does show what you need. What I really do find with modeling (myself included) is the following: I came from a situation where I used 3D exclusively (SGI’s, CRT’s, blah blah blah). Going to the newer, brighter, faster LCD displays means that 3D isn’t as important to me anymore, and I find that I typically use 2D almost exclusively. Occasionally I do 3D, and when I do, the Zalman is fine for that. Hope that helps Dave On Mar 6, 2014, at 7:50 AM, Zhijie Li zhijie...@utoronto.ca wrote: I beg to differ on this: Also, passive screens have a pol-filter in place, the fine lines of which you will observe on a white background, the more disturbing the closer the viewing distance to the screen is. So, for general office applications (writing text), the screens are less useful. Our LG D2342P has no issue with office work. I never noticed any thin lines on the screen. In fact I think its 2D display is excellent. I wonder if the issue you have is related to the screen size: the pixels of 27 in screens are bigger than our 22 in screens. Zhijie From: mesters Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 3:55 AM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot Hi, this is probaly due to the transition from old TFT style to new IPS panel based monitors... Several new passive 3d monitors are hitting the market such as AOC d2769Vh and the Philips Gioco 278G4. Both are based on 27 IPS Monitor panels. A list of possible monitors can be found at Tridef (many are old but new models are listed), https://www.tridef.com/products/pc-licensed-products. Problem with passive stereo is, you will half the resolution in the vertical direction. It is a problem if you are looking at wire-models of structures in pymol and especially fine-wire electron density mesh and models in coot as those noticably loose resolution compared to active stereo screens. Also, passive screens have a pol-filter in place, the fine lines of which you will observe on a white background, the more disturbing the closer the viewing distance to the screen is. So, for general office applications (writing text), the screens are less useful. This is not to big a problem for viewing full screen pictures, games and movies (increased distance to the screen...). Moreover, with passive monitors, as the stereo effect increases with the screen size, the picture looks more pixeled compared to active stereo screens. I personally own a AOC d2769Vh and for 3D movies it is great, for coot not that useful if you plan longer sessions. At work, we operate an ASUS VG278HR (active stereo and build in emitter for glasses). Many hardware testers consider this screen the best one available on the market. If you mainly need it for coot, I recommend to change your priorities and buy an active stereo screen such as Asus VG248QE or Asus VG278HR. You do not need an expensive quadro card (600 will do fine) as the VG278HR has build-in emitter for operation with cheap nvidia glasses. It pays off in the long run to invest a few more dollars as you (I assume) will spend a lot of time in front of the this device (so buy the best as you only have one pair of eyes). - J. - Am 05.03.14 23:46, schrieb Shaun Lott: A rather US-centric question on passive 3D monitors... I'm just getting set up in the US, and I'm surprised on how few passive 3D monitors seem to be around - many models seem listed as 'out of stock' when looking in the usual places (Amazon, NewEgg, BestBuys, Walmart etc.) The best deal I have found is for an LG D2343PB-BN (http://www.lg.com/us/commercial/lcd-computer-monitors/lg-D2343PB-BN) at US$274 Does anyone have any experience with this model, or any suggestion about where best to buy 3D monitors in the US? many thanks in advance Shaun -- Dr. Jeroen R. Mesters Deputy, Senior Researcher Lecturer Institute of Biochemistry, University of Lübeck Ratzeburger Allee 160, 23538 Lübeck, Germany phone: +49-451-5004065 (secretariate 5004061) fax: +49-451-5004068
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Thanks to everyone who responded, on and off the list. I thought I'd post a quick summary. To clarify my question slightly (if belatedly) I'm specifically looking for a passive 3D solution to plug into my MacBook Pro whilst on sabbatical in the USA. I'll be using it for a mixture of 2D and 3D viewing, not for many hours of dedicated hand building of my 3.5A maps. Well, I hope not! ;) The LG D2343PB-BN gets honourably mentioned, and is available in several places: http://www.adorama.com/LOCD2343PBBN.html $273.50 including shipping http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1002116-REG/lg_electronics_d2343pb_bn_23_mon_led_lcd.html $273.50 + shipping Another candidate is this from AOC: http://www.amazon.com/AOC-E2352PHZ-23-Widescreen-Flicker/dp/B005LORQGG $250 including shipping The Asus VG27AH also got good reports, but is listed as either 'out of stock' or 'unavailable'. However, its kid brother, the VG23AH is available: http://www.pinnaclemicro.com/computer/dsku.php?g=VG23AHm=ASUS $251 including shipping (you need to enter the promo code SAS10 to get $10 off!) This monitor got a poor review on cnet (http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/asus-vg23ah/4505-3174_7-35306085.html) but much better and more thoughtful reviews elsewhere (http://3dvision-blog.com/7861-review-of-the-23-inch-asus-vg23ah-passive-3d-ips-display) so I'm going to go with the Asus for the following very scientific reasons: 1) It's $20 cheaper than the LG 2) The colours felt a bit washed out on the only AOC monitor I've used previously 3) It has built in speakers and I don't have any on my desk My feeling is that these will all perform in a very similar fashion - I'll report back once I've plugged it in! cheers Shaun
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Thanks! we're gonna test one of the lg's from bh, one of our zalman's just died today. On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:06 PM, Shaun Lott s.l...@auckland.ac.nz wrote: Thanks to everyone who responded, on and off the list. I thought I'd post a quick summary. To clarify my question slightly (if belatedly) I'm specifically looking for a passive 3D solution to plug into my MacBook Pro whilst on sabbatical in the USA. I'll be using it for a mixture of 2D and 3D viewing, not for many hours of dedicated hand building of my 3.5A maps. Well, I hope not! ;) The LG D2343PB-BN gets honourably mentioned, and is available in several places: http://www.adorama.com/LOCD2343PBBN.html $273.50 including shipping http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1002116-REG/lg_electronics_d2343pb_bn_23_mon_led_lcd.html $273.50 + shipping Another candidate is this from AOC: http://www.amazon.com/AOC-E2352PHZ-23-Widescreen-Flicker/dp/B005LORQGG $250 including shipping The Asus VG27AH also got good reports, but is listed as either 'out of stock' or 'unavailable'. However, its kid brother, the VG23AH is available: http://www.pinnaclemicro.com/computer/dsku.php?g=VG23AHm=ASUS $251 including shipping (you need to enter the promo code SAS10 to get $10 off!) This monitor got a poor review on cnet ( http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/asus-vg23ah/4505-3174_7-35306085.html) but much better and more thoughtful reviews elsewhere ( http://3dvision-blog.com/7861-review-of-the-23-inch-asus-vg23ah-passive-3d-ips-display) so I'm going to go with the Asus for the following very scientific reasons: 1) It's $20 cheaper than the LG 2) The colours felt a bit washed out on the only AOC monitor I've used previously 3) It has built in speakers and I don't have any on my desk My feeling is that these will all perform in a very similar fashion - I'll report back once I've plugged it in! cheers Shaun
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
A rather US-centric question on passive 3D monitors... I'm just getting set up in the US, and I'm surprised on how few passive 3D monitors seem to be around - many models seem listed as 'out of stock' when looking in the usual places (Amazon, NewEgg, BestBuys, Walmart etc.) The best deal I have found is for an LG D2343PB-BN (http://www.lg.com/us/commercial/lcd-computer-monitors/lg-D2343PB-BN) at US$274 Does anyone have any experience with this model, or any suggestion about where best to buy 3D monitors in the US? many thanks in advance Shaun
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Hi Alice, I've got an LG DM2352D-PZ passive stereo monitor, which seems to be comparable to the Zalman and works under the Zalman setting in coot and ccp4mg on my Mac. I've been happy with it, at least since I worked out some video settings (very different from the defaults) that made it easier to look at the screen for long periods of time. For stereo mode, it would be nice if it were higher than HD resolution, but I don't think the Zalman monitors were different in that respect. Best wishes, Randy On 9 Sep 2013, at 06:26, Alice Vrielink alice.vriel...@uwa.edu.au wrote: Hi all, I want to buy a stereo monitor for use with Pymol and Coot. I have a Zalman monitor currently but want another monitor for use by others in the lab. It seems that Zalman monitors have been discontinued. Does anyone have experience with other monitors and could share which are compatible with the above software. Most of the computers that would be used with this monitor would be Macs. Thanks in advance!! Alice ** Alice Vrielink Professor of Structural Biology School of Chemistry and Biochemistry M310 University of Western Australia 35 Stirling Highway Crawley, WA, 6009 Australia Email:alice.vriel...@uwa.edu.au Phone: +61 08 6488 3162 Fax: +61 08 6488 1005 Webpage: http://crystal.bcs.uwa.edu.au/px/alice/ We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. Aristotle ** -- Randy J. Read Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge Cambridge Institute for Medical Research Tel: + 44 1223 336500 Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: + 44 1223 336827 Hills RoadE-mail: rj...@cam.ac.uk Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K. www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Yes, my understanding too is that they all work at HD resolution, which is pretty unimpressive if you halve the vertical frequency. But that's what constitutes a cheap high-resolution screen this days. One can only wait and hope that people get into the 4K monitors, when life will become nicer for us. Adrian On 9 Sep 2013, at 08:33, Randy Read rj...@cam.ac.uk wrote: Hi Alice, I've got an LG DM2352D-PZ passive stereo monitor, which seems to be comparable to the Zalman and works under the Zalman setting in coot and ccp4mg on my Mac. I've been happy with it, at least since I worked out some video settings (very different from the defaults) that made it easier to look at the screen for long periods of time. For stereo mode, it would be nice if it were higher than HD resolution, but I don't think the Zalman monitors were different in that respect. Best wishes, Randy On 9 Sep 2013, at 06:26, Alice Vrielink alice.vriel...@uwa.edu.au wrote: Hi all, I want to buy a stereo monitor for use with Pymol and Coot. I have a Zalman monitor currently but want another monitor for use by others in the lab. It seems that Zalman monitors have been discontinued. Does anyone have experience with other monitors and could share which are compatible with the above software. Most of the computers that would be used with this monitor would be Macs. Thanks in advance!! Alice ** Alice Vrielink Professor of Structural Biology School of Chemistry and Biochemistry M310 University of Western Australia 35 Stirling Highway Crawley, WA, 6009 Australia Email: alice.vriel...@uwa.edu.au Phone: +61 08 6488 3162 Fax:+61 08 6488 1005 Webpage: http://crystal.bcs.uwa.edu.au/px/alice/ We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. Aristotle ** -- Randy J. Read Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge Cambridge Institute for Medical Research Tel: + 44 1223 336500 Wellcome Trust/MRC Building Fax: + 44 1223 336827 Hills RoadE-mail: rj...@cam.ac.uk Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K. www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
Re: [ccp4bb] Stereo monitors for use with Pymol and Coot
Alice and all, There is a saying about the one-eyed man, into which category I definitely fall on the subject of stereo monitors. However, this is what I currently understand: I don't actually _know_ from direct experience if any of the below work, but I am moving to a new position (in Leeds) and the IT people there have been looking into this question for me. So below is what they have been told. Other possibilities: BenQ XL2720T - 3D LED monitor - 27 £350.72 ex VAT ASUS VG278H 27 3D LED Widescreen Monitor £395.00 ex VAT LG DM2752D-PZ - 3D LED monitor - 27 £247.99 ex VAT “ASUS VG278HE 27 WIDE LED 3D MONITOR @ £320.00 - active ASUS VG278HR 27 WIDE LED 3D MONITOR @ £395.00 - active ASUS VG27AH 27 WIDE IPS 3D MONITOR @ £295.00 – passive (this would be the model he wants to mimic the cinema experience)” Linda Olson bought the ASUSVG27AH - and it worked. hth, Adrian Adrian Goldman, Ph. D. | Leadership Chair in Membrane Biology| Astbury Centre for Structural Molecular Biology Astbury 6108b | School of Biomedical Sciences |Tel: 44-(0) 113 3438537 Faculty of Biological Sciences |FAX: University of Leeds,|Mobile:44-(0)7918 951821 Leeds LS2 9JT |Email: a.gold...@leeds.ac.uk England.| GnuPG key: 6037C6D6C9F5E134 signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
