RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
Ditto - we've done 2 aps with rave reviews and we are working on 2 more. -Original Message- From: Stacy Young [mailto:Stacy.Young;sfcommerce.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very good idea. Good business. Dave ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
I agree. Here is a simple example for anyone to play with. http://www.fishermenstudios.com/mmugex.zip Clint -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 8:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Ditto - we've done 2 aps with rave reviews and we are working on 2 more. -Original Message- From: Stacy Young [mailto:Stacy.Young;sfcommerce.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very good idea. Good business. Dave ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
Have you tried using Flash Remoting with anything other than CFMX? Have you tried marshalling complex objects? Have you tried marshalling objects with large blocks of text? Have you tried any of the above on mixed platforms i.e. Windows and Linux? Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Ditto - we've done 2 aps with rave reviews and we are working on 2 more. -Original Message- From: Stacy Young [mailto:Stacy.Young;sfcommerce.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very good idea. Good business. Dave ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
Matt, What we have done is created 2 great applications under budget and before the deadline - increasing our margin by 15%. We have clients begging for more. That makes the ROI on flash remoting looking pretty darn good. In fact, I'm looking to hire a full time Flash guy in January. Your points may be valid. Yes flash remoting is version 1.0, but Flash remoting has great promise - and great functionality now. What if everyone gave up on HTML in the early days because of its lack of this or that. So we have to go a different route when we need mixed platforms and marshalling complex objects. And as for remoting with something other than CFMX - why should I? Part of my business is pitching that particular platform - something we do quite successfully I might add. Some of us are simply replacing clunky HTML interfaces with a brand new user experience - and flash remoting really is a superior choice for that task. When YOU scream about something I say wait and see. When my clients start screaming - then I'll worry g. -mk -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta;r337.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Have you tried using Flash Remoting with anything other than CFMX? Have you tried marshalling complex objects? Have you tried marshalling objects with large blocks of text? Have you tried any of the above on mixed platforms i.e. Windows and Linux? Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Ditto - we've done 2 aps with rave reviews and we are working on 2 more. -Original Message- From: Stacy Young [mailto:Stacy.Young;sfcommerce.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
I certainly didn't advocate not using Flash Remoting. I was simply making others aware of problems with it and reminding them that it is a 1.0 product. I did this because of a post exclaiming the perfect marriage of CF and Flash. I felt that your post attempted to push under the rug the issues I raised by suggesting that it works great for you and therefore should work great for others. That might not have been your intent, but that is how I read it. I feel this list allows for us to share our experiences with our peers hopefully allowing the community to avoid the pitfalls others have made. I was simply doing my duty to explain the pitfalls we have ran into. It is great that your particular applications didn't run into the same issues, but that doesn't change the fact that the issues exist. We will continue to use Flash Remoting because it is a solution for us. However, in hindsight I wouldn't have relied so heavily on it knowing what I know now. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Matt, What we have done is created 2 great applications under budget and before the deadline - increasing our margin by 15%. We have clients begging for more. That makes the ROI on flash remoting looking pretty darn good. In fact, I'm looking to hire a full time Flash guy in January. Your points may be valid. Yes flash remoting is version 1.0, but Flash remoting has great promise - and great functionality now. What if everyone gave up on HTML in the early days because of its lack of this or that. So we have to go a different route when we need mixed platforms and marshalling complex objects. And as for remoting with something other than CFMX - why should I? Part of my business is pitching that particular platform - something we do quite successfully I might add. Some of us are simply replacing clunky HTML interfaces with a brand new user experience - and flash remoting really is a superior choice for that task. When YOU scream about something I say wait and see. When my clients start screaming - then I'll worry g. -mk -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta;r337.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Have you tried using Flash Remoting with anything other than CFMX? Have you tried marshalling complex objects? Have you tried marshalling objects with large blocks of text? Have you tried any of the above on mixed platforms i.e. Windows and Linux? Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Ditto - we've done 2 aps with rave reviews and we are working on 2 more. -Original Message- From: Stacy Young [mailto:Stacy.Young;sfcommerce.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
No No No Yes -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta;r337.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Have you tried using Flash Remoting with anything other than CFMX? Have you tried marshalling complex objects? Have you tried marshalling objects with large blocks of text? Have you tried any of the above on mixed platforms i.e. Windows and Linux? Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Ditto - we've done 2 aps with rave reviews and we are working on 2 more. -Original Message- From: Stacy Young [mailto:Stacy.Young;sfcommerce.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very good idea. Good business. Dave ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
Oh I definitely agree. One has to understand this is a 1.0. Buyer beware...was just expressing my fondness of remoting within our realm...So far, so good. Your original post was quite vague...would have been more helpful to include the specifics in the initial message... Cheers, Stace -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta;r337.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) I certainly didn't advocate not using Flash Remoting. I was simply making others aware of problems with it and reminding them that it is a 1.0 product. I did this because of a post exclaiming the perfect marriage of CF and Flash. I felt that your post attempted to push under the rug the issues I raised by suggesting that it works great for you and therefore should work great for others. That might not have been your intent, but that is how I read it. I feel this list allows for us to share our experiences with our peers hopefully allowing the community to avoid the pitfalls others have made. I was simply doing my duty to explain the pitfalls we have ran into. It is great that your particular applications didn't run into the same issues, but that doesn't change the fact that the issues exist. We will continue to use Flash Remoting because it is a solution for us. However, in hindsight I wouldn't have relied so heavily on it knowing what I know now. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Matt, What we have done is created 2 great applications under budget and before the deadline - increasing our margin by 15%. We have clients begging for more. That makes the ROI on flash remoting looking pretty darn good. In fact, I'm looking to hire a full time Flash guy in January. Your points may be valid. Yes flash remoting is version 1.0, but Flash remoting has great promise - and great functionality now. What if everyone gave up on HTML in the early days because of its lack of this or that. So we have to go a different route when we need mixed platforms and marshalling complex objects. And as for remoting with something other than CFMX - why should I? Part of my business is pitching that particular platform - something we do quite successfully I might add. Some of us are simply replacing clunky HTML interfaces with a brand new user experience - and flash remoting really is a superior choice for that task. When YOU scream about something I say wait and see. When my clients start screaming - then I'll worry g. -mk -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta;r337.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Have you tried using Flash Remoting with anything other than CFMX? Have you tried marshalling complex objects? Have you tried marshalling objects with large blocks of text? Have you tried any of the above on mixed platforms i.e. Windows and Linux? Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Ditto - we've done 2 aps with rave reviews and we are working on 2 more. -Original Message- From: Stacy Young [mailto:Stacy.Young;sfcommerce.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
Matt, can you provide examples of what you've run into with these issues? I'm a UI developer and I don't recognize the term marshalling. Thanks, -Kevin -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta;r337.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Have you tried using Flash Remoting with anything other than CFMX? Have you tried marshalling complex objects? Have you tried marshalling objects with large blocks of text? Have you tried any of the above on mixed platforms i.e. Windows and Linux? Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Ditto - we've done 2 aps with rave reviews and we are working on 2 more. -Original Message- From: Stacy Young [mailto:Stacy.Young;sfcommerce.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very good idea. Good business. Dave ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
marshalling communications (US -ll- or -l-) The process of packing one or more items of data into a message buffer, prior to transmitting that message buffer over a communication channel. The packing process not only collects together values which may be stored in non-consecutive memory locations but also converts data of different types into a standard representation agreed with the recipient of the message. Each language has its own idea of what data types are and how they are represented. Whenever you want to pass data between different languages you need to have an agreed upon intermediary. Each language can then convert the data to and from the intermediary thus allowing inter-language communication. As such, when I speak of objects being corrupted during the marshalling process I am simply stating that the object sent from one end didn't end up on the other as expected. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:kgraeme;facstaff.wisc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 11:02 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Matt, can you provide examples of what you've run into with these issues? I'm a UI developer and I don't recognize the term marshalling. Thanks, -Kevin -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta;r337.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Have you tried using Flash Remoting with anything other than CFMX? Have you tried marshalling complex objects? Have you tried marshalling objects with large blocks of text? Have you tried any of the above on mixed platforms i.e. Windows and Linux? Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Ditto - we've done 2 aps with rave reviews and we are working on 2 more. -Original Message- From: Stacy Young [mailto:Stacy.Young;sfcommerce.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
Thanks, that was a lot clearer than the information I was wading through on MSDN about it. -Kevin -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta;r337.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 10:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) marshalling communications (US -ll- or -l-) The process of packing one or more items of data into a message buffer, prior to transmitting that message buffer over a communication channel. The packing process not only collects together values which may be stored in non-consecutive memory locations but also converts data of different types into a standard representation agreed with the recipient of the message. Each language has its own idea of what data types are and how they are represented. Whenever you want to pass data between different languages you need to have an agreed upon intermediary. Each language can then convert the data to and from the intermediary thus allowing inter-language communication. As such, when I speak of objects being corrupted during the marshalling process I am simply stating that the object sent from one end didn't end up on the other as expected. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:kgraeme;facstaff.wisc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 11:02 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Matt, can you provide examples of what you've run into with these issues? I'm a UI developer and I don't recognize the term marshalling. Thanks, -Kevin -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta;r337.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Have you tried using Flash Remoting with anything other than CFMX? Have you tried marshalling complex objects? Have you tried marshalling objects with large blocks of text? Have you tried any of the above on mixed platforms i.e. Windows and Linux? Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:mkruger;cfwebtools.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 9:54 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Ditto - we've done 2 aps with rave reviews and we are working on 2 more. -Original Message- From: Stacy Young [mailto:Stacy.Young;sfcommerce.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because
Re: SOT: Sad Day
Will there be a Community Manager MX beta program? ;) -- jon mailto:jonhall;ozline.net Monday, November 11, 2002, 11:52:56 PM, you wrote: MC this is from an email that i sent out earlier: MC We will be providing more information on a new, enhanced community MC manager position in the very near future. This is first of a number of MC steps that we are taking which will allow us to be more responsive to MC and aggressive within the ColdFusion community. We will send out MC additional details about this new position very soon. MC mike chambers MC [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: SOT: Sad Day
I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
No one needs to jump to conclusions; MM announces its cut backs. You might also have noticed that Raymond is for hire these days (see sig). Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: SOT: Sad Day
that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: SOT: Sad Day
The fact that I have seen the same ( or similar ) words said a bunch of times on this list makes me suspicious of them. At 03:32 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: SOT: Sad Day
I'm not going to comment on the situation, other than to clarify that it wasn't my decision to leave the CFCM position. What I can tell you is that I really enjoyed working with the CF Community, and the comments I've seen on and off the lists have been very uplifting to me right now. You guys are great! I'll continue to be around, mostly just lurking for a while. -Vern Andrew Tyrone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
yep. i completely understand that. As I indicated in my initial email we will be sending out some more info shortly on a new enhanced community manager position, at which time we will also be discussing (and soliciting input) some other steps we will be taking. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Importance: High The fact that I have seen the same ( or similar ) words said a bunch of times on this list makes me suspicious of them. At 03:32 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: SOT: Sad Day
Well when we ask what happened and nobody is gonna tell then you start to assume ;) - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:32 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: SOT: Sad Day
:) LOL yea now what were you saying Andrew?? :) - Original Message - From: Vernon Viehe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I'm not going to comment on the situation, other than to clarify that it wasn't my decision to leave the CFCM position. What I can tell you is that I really enjoyed working with the CF Community, and the comments I've seen on and off the lists have been very uplifting to me right now. You guys are great! I'll continue to be around, mostly just lurking for a while. -Vern Andrew Tyrone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
No matter what the situation is Verne, one thing is for sure: its MM's loss. You (and Ray) are a TREMENDOUS asset to the community and I for one, think they made a huge mistake. I have been laid off twice and it truly sucks. Yea, it's nice to lounge around naked with beer and pretzels for breakfast, watching cartoons..errr...looking for jobs but after a while, the crumbs add up and and the beer runs out Best of Luck man! Big T -Original Message- From: Vernon Viehe [mailto:vernviehe;yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I'm not going to comment on the situation, other than to clarify that it wasn't my decision to leave the CFCM position. What I can tell you is that I really enjoyed working with the CF Community, and the comments I've seen on and off the lists have been very uplifting to me right now. You guys are great! I'll continue to be around, mostly just lurking for a while. -Vern Andrew Tyrone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Jeff, I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. The sad fact of the matter is that MS is more trustworthy than MM, when it comes to secure futures for its developers. I mean, C# could be the biggest failure of all time, but MS would ride it out and C# developers would have jobs for a long time to come. JSP is stable, because it's not a company centric language. It's the CF developers who are up late at night wondering what the future holds. Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) I'd just like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to learn a new language. Even if you don't use it extensively, you can at least secure peace-of-mind. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day The fact that I have seen the same ( or similar ) words said a bunch of times on this list makes me suspicious of them. At 03:32 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: SOT: Sad Day
i understand. as a general rule, we do not discuss the specifics of personnel changes. as i indicated in my previous email, we will be announcing a new community manager position very soon. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: William Wheatley [mailto:bill;ediets.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day Importance: High Well when we ask what happened and nobody is gonna tell then you start to assume ;) - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:32 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
As has been said before in this thread (though I can't recall who said it), it's really none of our business how or why Verne left. That's up to Verne to decide if he wants us knowing. And, from his previous email messages, it seems as though he doesn't intend to keep us in the know -- a perfectly reasonable decision. Verne's stated decision should be enough for us to drop the subject. Instead of making wild guesses as to what MM has in mind, let's wait until Mike and the rest of the MM crew are able to fill us in. -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: William Wheatley [mailto:bill;ediets.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day Well when we ask what happened and nobody is gonna tell then you start to assume ;) - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:32 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
The trick is to brew your own beer. 8^) -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: Tony Carcieri [mailto:tony;mediaweave.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:16 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day No matter what the situation is Verne, one thing is for sure: its MM's loss. You (and Ray) are a TREMENDOUS asset to the community and I for one, think they made a huge mistake. I have been laid off twice and it truly sucks. Yea, it's nice to lounge around naked with beer and pretzels for breakfast, watching cartoons..errr...looking for jobs but after a while, the crumbs add up and and the beer runs out Best of Luck man! Big T -Original Message- From: Vernon Viehe [mailto:vernviehe;yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I'm not going to comment on the situation, other than to clarify that it wasn't my decision to leave the CFCM position. What I can tell you is that I really enjoyed working with the CF Community, and the comments I've seen on and off the lists have been very uplifting to me right now. You guys are great! I'll continue to be around, mostly just lurking for a while. -Vern Andrew Tyrone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
does anyone really think cf could go by the wayside? ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:adrocknatalk;hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Jeff, I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. The sad fact of the matter is that MS is more trustworthy than MM, when it comes to secure futures for its developers. I mean, C# could be the biggest failure of all time, but MS would ride it out and C# developers would have jobs for a long time to come. JSP is stable, because it's not a company centric language. It's the CF developers who are up late at night wondering what the future holds. Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) I'd just like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to learn a new language. Even if you don't use it extensively, you can at least secure peace-of-mind. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day The fact that I have seen the same ( or similar ) words said a bunch of times on this list makes me suspicious of them. At 03:32 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: SOT: Sad Day
You are off the point as well. It was someone who said why do we ASSUME MM let him go ;) Vern said he did not leave under his own power. SO that just shut down Andrews thought on it And i suppose this would be agood time to move this over to cf-community :) - Original Message - From: Mosh Teitelbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:25 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day As has been said before in this thread (though I can't recall who said it), it's really none of our business how or why Verne left. That's up to Verne to decide if he wants us knowing. And, from his previous email messages, it seems as though he doesn't intend to keep us in the know -- a perfectly reasonable decision. Verne's stated decision should be enough for us to drop the subject. Instead of making wild guesses as to what MM has in mind, let's wait until Mike and the rest of the MM crew are able to fill us in. -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: William Wheatley [mailto:bill;ediets.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:11 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day Well when we ask what happened and nobody is gonna tell then you start to assume ;) - Original Message - From: Mike Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:32 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: SOT: Sad Day
Nope..I think it's here to stay. That said, if the community continues to slam the company so hard mabye they'll just drop CF out of spite!! Everyone on this list (with a few exceptions) does NOT have all the pieces of the puzzle. If you don't know the whole story, ask about the parts you're missing of just stay quiet. As they say..assume makes and a$$ out of u and me ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 1:30 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day does anyone really think cf could go by the wayside? ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:adrocknatalk;hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Jeff, I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. The sad fact of the matter is that MS is more trustworthy than MM, when it comes to secure futures for its developers. I mean, C# could be the biggest failure of all time, but MS would ride it out and C# developers would have jobs for a long time to come. JSP is stable, because it's not a company centric language. It's the CF developers who are up late at night wondering what the future holds. Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) I'd just like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to learn a new language. Even if you don't use it extensively, you can at least secure peace-of-mind. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day The fact that I have seen the same ( or similar ) words said a bunch of times on this list makes me suspicious of them. At 03:32 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Tony, Let me rephrase: Do you think MM wouldn't sell CF for the right price? Do you think MS would buy CF just to eliminate .NET competition? From MMs standpoint, it's a sweet deal. They buy it one year for 10x, release MX, sell it for 100X a few years later. That's a nice profit. For a company who was never supporting developers to begin with. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:tony;navtrak.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day does anyone really think cf could go by the wayside? .tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:adrocknatalk;hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Jeff, I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. The sad fact of the matter is that MS is more trustworthy than MM, when it comes to secure futures for its developers. I mean, C# could be the biggest failure of all time, but MS would ride it out and C# developers would have jobs for a long time to come. JSP is stable, because it's not a company centric language. It's the CF developers who are up late at night wondering what the future holds. Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) I'd just like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to learn a new language. Even if you don't use it extensively, you can at least secure peace-of-mind. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day The fact that I have seen the same ( or similar ) words said a bunch of times on this list makes me suspicious of them. At 03:32 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: SOT: Sad Day
WAY to much work for me! ;^) -Original Message- From: Mosh Teitelbaum [mailto:mosh.teitelbaum;evoch.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:27 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day The trick is to brew your own beer. 8^) -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: Tony Carcieri [mailto:tony;mediaweave.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:16 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day No matter what the situation is Verne, one thing is for sure: its MM's loss. You (and Ray) are a TREMENDOUS asset to the community and I for one, think they made a huge mistake. I have been laid off twice and it truly sucks. Yea, it's nice to lounge around naked with beer and pretzels for breakfast, watching cartoons..errr...looking for jobs but after a while, the crumbs add up and and the beer runs out Best of Luck man! Big T -Original Message- From: Vernon Viehe [mailto:vernviehe;yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I'm not going to comment on the situation, other than to clarify that it wasn't my decision to leave the CFCM position. What I can tell you is that I really enjoyed working with the CF Community, and the comments I've seen on and off the lists have been very uplifting to me right now. You guys are great! I'll continue to be around, mostly just lurking for a while. -Vern Andrew Tyrone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: SOT: Sad Day
:) If you wont take your own advice neither will i lol. But if the people who give MM the money to make their great products dont keep the company in line there is nothing to help persuade them from doing what they plan to do. Only with a vocal and strong voice can the company be persuaded to listen to its paying customers - Original Message - From: Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:43 PM Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day Nope..I think it's here to stay. That said, if the community continues to slam the company so hard mabye they'll just drop CF out of spite!! Everyone on this list (with a few exceptions) does NOT have all the pieces of the puzzle. If you don't know the whole story, ask about the parts you're missing of just stay quiet. As they say..assume makes and a$$ out of u and me ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 1:30 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day does anyone really think cf could go by the wayside? ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:adrocknatalk;hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Jeff, I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. The sad fact of the matter is that MS is more trustworthy than MM, when it comes to secure futures for its developers. I mean, C# could be the biggest failure of all time, but MS would ride it out and C# developers would have jobs for a long time to come. JSP is stable, because it's not a company centric language. It's the CF developers who are up late at night wondering what the future holds. Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) I'd just like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to learn a new language. Even if you don't use it extensively, you can at least secure peace-of-mind. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day The fact that I have seen the same ( or similar ) words said a bunch of times on this list makes me suspicious of them. At 03:32 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Just what Mike Chambers confirmed, which I just guessed at. Just because Vernon is no longer with MM doesn't mean it's MM's fault automatically, nor does it mean it's Vern's fault. I don't remember seeing a reason, and unlike other people who are nosy, I am not going to demand a reason, either. -Original Message- From: William Wheatley [mailto:bill;ediets.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day :) LOL yea now what were you saying Andrew?? :) - Original Message - From: Vernon Viehe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:00 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I'm not going to comment on the situation, other than to clarify that it wasn't my decision to leave the CFCM position. What I can tell you is that I really enjoyed working with the CF Community, and the comments I've seen on and off the lists have been very uplifting to me right now. You guys are great! I'll continue to be around, mostly just lurking for a while. -Vern Andrew Tyrone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
I think, since MM is looking for a new community manager, whether they announce cutbacks or not doesn't matter in this case. People did jump to conclusions. So unless there is some dastardly plot afoot to fool us all into thinking MM is going to get a new community manager but really isn't, the bottom line is people proclaimed MM cutbacks in this area before they knew anything. That's just a fact. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:mliotta;r337.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day No one needs to jump to conclusions; MM announces its cut backs. You might also have noticed that Raymond is for hire these days (see sig). Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Obviously i do not expect an answer but I think some of us are wondering: if you are dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community and that we will be announcing a new community manager position very soon then why lose Verne? I think I can safely state that Verne was constantly standing up for MM and was a HUGE asset in the community. I also would be likely to believe that he was as qualified as the next person. So, why lose that type of asset? Sorry, Mike, but I just think it wasn't the most beneficial move that MM has done. And i don't mean to sound like a jerk or want an answer and it's just my opinion. Likewise, Verne could have had his own personal reasons for leaving and that is totally understandable as could MM. -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:mchamber;macromedia.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Since reading is apparently not fundamental, I give you my first post on this topic: I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. As you can see, I said Maybe -- and I didn't say MM is cutting back or not. I said people assumed they were and that they cut Vernon's position. Now, since it is being stated that the position is not being cut back, I was right not to jump on the MM-bashing bandwagon. -Original Message- From: William Wheatley [mailto:bill;ediets.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day You are off the point as well. It was someone who said why do we ASSUME MM let him go ;) Vern said he did not leave under his own power. SO that just shut down Andrews thought on it And i suppose this would be agood time to move this over to cf-community :) ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
You know Bryan, a good amount of people on this list have invested their careers in Cold Fusion. The futures of their families come back to MM. I think CF Developers have every right to be critical of MM, as I think everyone should be critical of their financial future. Sadly, many people who trusted in corporations have seen their savings retirement disappear. I don't mean to get all mellow-dramatic, but this discussion is extremely healthy and benefits the developers. Personally, I have better things to worry about than if I'm making an a$$ of myself. Seriously, when you stop asking questions, you're giving over control. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:bryan;electricedgesystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:43 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day Nope..I think it's here to stay. That said, if the community continues to slam the company so hard mabye they'll just drop CF out of spite!! Everyone on this list (with a few exceptions) does NOT have all the pieces of the puzzle. If you don't know the whole story, ask about the parts you're missing of just stay quiet. As they say..assume makes and a$$ out of u and me ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 1:30 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day does anyone really think cf could go by the wayside? ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:adrocknatalk;hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Jeff, I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. The sad fact of the matter is that MS is more trustworthy than MM, when it comes to secure futures for its developers. I mean, C# could be the biggest failure of all time, but MS would ride it out and C# developers would have jobs for a long time to come. JSP is stable, because it's not a company centric language. It's the CF developers who are up late at night wondering what the future holds. Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) I'd just like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to learn a new language. Even if you don't use it extensively, you can at least secure peace-of-mind. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day The fact that I have seen the same ( or similar ) words said a bunch of times on this list makes me suspicious of them. At 03:32 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
This is unbelievable... A message dedicated to the memory of Vernon as community manager has now been turned into another Is ColdFusion Dying? If so how will I eat, Macromedia HATES us, WA thread. Tony, No, I don't think CF is going to go by the wayside, but then again, we could all not be here tomorrow. It all makes me want to just hide under the bed 'til the world ends. The problem here is people who like to preach doom and gloom. If Jeremy Allaire sneezes, I'm sure there will be a thread tomorrow about how he has a horrible disease and there won't be anyone to champion our cause at MM any more. -Original Message- From: Tony Weeg [mailto:tony;navtrak.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day does anyone really think cf could go by the wayside? ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:adrocknatalk;hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Jeff, I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. The sad fact of the matter is that MS is more trustworthy than MM, when it comes to secure futures for its developers. I mean, C# could be the biggest failure of all time, but MS would ride it out and C# developers would have jobs for a long time to come. JSP is stable, because it's not a company centric language. It's the CF developers who are up late at night wondering what the future holds. Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) I'd just like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to learn a new language. Even if you don't use it extensively, you can at least secure peace-of-mind. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day The fact that I have seen the same ( or similar ) words said a bunch of times on this list makes me suspicious of them. At 03:32 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Hmm... You might be right. I think MM fired him because he liked the job so much and was so good at it. I mean, MM is just so spiteful and they saw poor little Verne sitting there so happy that they decided to can him. Also, they are thinking of raising the price of CFMX to US $20,000. And that's just the new price for the Pro version. Don't tell Mike Chambers I told you; he'll deny it. It's all part of the Project for the New American Century, headed up by the evil Republicans who fixed all of the polls this past election. -Original Message- From: Tony Carcieri [mailto:tony;mediaweave.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Obviously i do not expect an answer but I think some of us are wondering: if you are dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community and that we will be announcing a new community manager position very soon then why lose Verne? I think I can safely state that Verne was constantly standing up for MM and was a HUGE asset in the community. I also would be likely to believe that he was as qualified as the next person. So, why lose that type of asset? Sorry, Mike, but I just think it wasn't the most beneficial move that MM has done. And i don't mean to sound like a jerk or want an answer and it's just my opinion. Likewise, Verne could have had his own personal reasons for leaving and that is totally understandable as could MM. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Sheesh... Rubbernecking on the Info Super Highway 8^). There are numerous reasons that a company might let one of their employees go. They range from benevolent (no longer able to grow, not a good fit) to malevolent (stealing from the company, etc.). Not that any of these apply to Verne, but there you go. -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: Tony Carcieri [mailto:tony;mediaweave.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Obviously i do not expect an answer but I think some of us are wondering: if you are dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community and that we will be announcing a new community manager position very soon then why lose Verne? I think I can safely state that Verne was constantly standing up for MM and was a HUGE asset in the community. I also would be likely to believe that he was as qualified as the next person. So, why lose that type of asset? Sorry, Mike, but I just think it wasn't the most beneficial move that MM has done. And i don't mean to sound like a jerk or want an answer and it's just my opinion. Likewise, Verne could have had his own personal reasons for leaving and that is totally understandable as could MM. -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:mchamber;macromedia.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: SOT: Sad Day
Hey Adam, see below for comments... From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 1:59 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day You know Bryan, a good amount of people on this list have invested their careers in Cold Fusion. Yes that includes me...full-time CF and nothing else for 5 years The futures of their families come back to MM. I think CF Developers have every right to be critical of MM, as I think everyone should be critical of their financial future. Informed criticism is fine...doomsaying is not Sadly, many people who trusted in corporations have seen their savings retirement disappear. I don't mean to get all mellow-dramatic, but this discussion is extremely healthy and benefits the developers. Personally, I have better things to worry about than if I'm making an a$$ of myself. Seriously, when you stop asking questions, you're giving over control. Didn't I just say to ask questions and not just assume things as fact (or outright make them up)?? ;-) Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:bryan;electricedgesystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:43 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day Nope..I think it's here to stay. That said, if the community continues to slam the company so hard mabye they'll just drop CF out of spite!! Everyone on this list (with a few exceptions) does NOT have all the pieces of the puzzle. If you don't know the whole story, ask about the parts you're missing of just stay quiet. As they say..assume makes and a$$ out of u and me ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Tony Weeg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 1:30 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day does anyone really think cf could go by the wayside? ..tony Tony Weeg Senior Web Developer Information System Design Navtrak, Inc. Fleet Management Solutions www.navtrak.net 410.548.2337 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:adrocknatalk;hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:23 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Jeff, I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. The sad fact of the matter is that MS is more trustworthy than MM, when it comes to secure futures for its developers. I mean, C# could be the biggest failure of all time, but MS would ride it out and C# developers would have jobs for a long time to come. JSP is stable, because it's not a company centric language. It's the CF developers who are up late at night wondering what the future holds. Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) I'd just like to take this opportunity to encourage everyone to learn a new language. Even if you don't use it extensively, you can at least secure peace-of-mind. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day The fact that I have seen the same ( or similar ) words said a bunch of times on this list makes me suspicious of them. At 03:32 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion
RE: SOT: Sad Day
No way. It's great. And a true labor of love. -Original Message- From: Tony Carcieri [mailto:tony;mediaweave.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day WAY to much work for me! ;^) -Original Message- From: Mosh Teitelbaum [mailto:mosh.teitelbaum;evoch.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:27 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day The trick is to brew your own beer. 8^) -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: Tony Carcieri [mailto:tony;mediaweave.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:16 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day No matter what the situation is Verne, one thing is for sure: its MM's loss. You (and Ray) are a TREMENDOUS asset to the community and I for one, think they made a huge mistake. I have been laid off twice and it truly sucks. Yea, it's nice to lounge around naked with beer and pretzels for breakfast, watching cartoons..errr...looking for jobs but after a while, the crumbs add up and and the beer runs out Best of Luck man! Big T -Original Message- From: Vernon Viehe [mailto:vernviehe;yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I'm not going to comment on the situation, other than to clarify that it wasn't my decision to leave the CFCM position. What I can tell you is that I really enjoyed working with the CF Community, and the comments I've seen on and off the lists have been very uplifting to me right now. You guys are great! I'll continue to be around, mostly just lurking for a while. -Vern Andrew Tyrone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Or perhaps it was none of the above and he left on his own. With all due respect to Verne, let's move on to more productive discussions. Kevin -Original Message- From: Mosh Teitelbaum [mailto:mosh.teitelbaum;evoch.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Sheesh... Rubbernecking on the Info Super Highway 8^). There are numerous reasons that a company might let one of their employees go. They range from benevolent (no longer able to grow, not a good fit) to malevolent (stealing from the company, etc.). Not that any of these apply to Verne, but there you go. -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: Tony Carcieri [mailto:tony;mediaweave.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Obviously i do not expect an answer but I think some of us are wondering: if you are dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community and that we will be announcing a new community manager position very soon then why lose Verne? I think I can safely state that Verne was constantly standing up for MM and was a HUGE asset in the community. I also would be likely to believe that he was as qualified as the next person. So, why lose that type of asset? Sorry, Mike, but I just think it wasn't the most beneficial move that MM has done. And i don't mean to sound like a jerk or want an answer and it's just my opinion. Likewise, Verne could have had his own personal reasons for leaving and that is totally understandable as could MM. -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:mchamber;macromedia.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: SOT: Sad Day
Ever want to respond to an off-topic thread, asking to please keep it on topic, but then think that maybe it will just end when everyone says their piece, but then it continues to go on, then you think about sending that email again, then stop again...and the thread continues to go on, then... Pardon me while I go wrestle with my own internal demons now. jon ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: SOT: Sad Day
to clarify...Verne has posted saying that it was not his decision to leave...and yes...next topic please ;-) Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. t. 250.920.8830 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Macromedia Associate Partner www.macromedia.com - Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group Founder Director www.cfug-vancouverisland.com - Original Message - From: Miller, Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:26 PM Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Or perhaps it was none of the above and he left on his own. With all due respect to Verne, let's move on to more productive discussions. Kevin -Original Message- From: Mosh Teitelbaum [mailto:mosh.teitelbaum;evoch.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Sheesh... Rubbernecking on the Info Super Highway 8^). There are numerous reasons that a company might let one of their employees go. They range from benevolent (no longer able to grow, not a good fit) to malevolent (stealing from the company, etc.). Not that any of these apply to Verne, but there you go. -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: Tony Carcieri [mailto:tony;mediaweave.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Obviously i do not expect an answer but I think some of us are wondering: if you are dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community and that we will be announcing a new community manager position very soon then why lose Verne? I think I can safely state that Verne was constantly standing up for MM and was a HUGE asset in the community. I also would be likely to believe that he was as qualified as the next person. So, why lose that type of asset? Sorry, Mike, but I just think it wasn't the most beneficial move that MM has done. And i don't mean to sound like a jerk or want an answer and it's just my opinion. Likewise, Verne could have had his own personal reasons for leaving and that is totally understandable as could MM. -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:mchamber;macromedia.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Indeed! Like what is going to happen to all the issues Vern was looking into on the community's behalf. P.S. Where are the OT police today? Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Miller, Kevin [mailto:kevin.miller;medtronic.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 5:27 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Or perhaps it was none of the above and he left on his own. With all due respect to Verne, let's move on to more productive discussions. Kevin -Original Message- From: Mosh Teitelbaum [mailto:mosh.teitelbaum;evoch.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Sheesh... Rubbernecking on the Info Super Highway 8^). There are numerous reasons that a company might let one of their employees go. They range from benevolent (no longer able to grow, not a good fit) to malevolent (stealing from the company, etc.). Not that any of these apply to Verne, but there you go. -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: Tony Carcieri [mailto:tony;mediaweave.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Obviously i do not expect an answer but I think some of us are wondering: if you are dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community and that we will be announcing a new community manager position very soon then why lose Verne? I think I can safely state that Verne was constantly standing up for MM and was a HUGE asset in the community. I also would be likely to believe that he was as qualified as the next person. So, why lose that type of asset? Sorry, Mike, but I just think it wasn't the most beneficial move that MM has done. And i don't mean to sound like a jerk or want an answer and it's just my opinion. Likewise, Verne could have had his own personal reasons for leaving and that is totally understandable as could MM. -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:mchamber;macromedia.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day that is correct. we are not cutting back. in fact, we will be dedicating more resources to the coldfusion community. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Andrew Tyrone [mailto:atyrone;optonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day I don't understand why everyone jumps to the conclusion that MM is cutting back. Maybe Vernon left because he wanted to, who knows. As with the Contribute thread (I'm glad I made an OT sub-folder for cf-talk), people start assuming and making stuff up before they know the whole story! On that note, I am glad that Vernon will be around as he's a good voice of reason to this list, at least in my opinion. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: SOT: Sad Day
I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very good idea. Good business. Dave ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: SOT: Sad Day
Attention MM bashers. Jeremy Allaire is the Chief Technology Officer at MM. He is alive and well. His net worth will rise or fall with the fortunes of MM. = Douglas White group Manager mailto:doug;samcfug.org http://www.samcfug.org = - Original Message - From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:28 PM Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day | I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone | seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little | over a year ago. | ~~ | Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. | If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and | children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) | | | MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because | there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX | and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less | server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage | is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the | greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who | attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is | taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And | the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play | too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing | me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. | They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. | | As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just | good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come | to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with | the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power | that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very | good idea. Good business. | | Dave | | | | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Ok.. Now it's getting nutz. Time to take this to CF-Community Just my .02... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very good idea. Good business. Dave ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Or Macromedia-Talk. MD has setup quite a few distint lists now. Full list available at: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/ ** The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments to it, is intended for the use of addressee and is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, read, forward, copy or retain any of the information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify the sender by return e-mail or telephone. The Commonwealth does not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or any other defects. You assume all liability for any loss, damage, or other consequences which may arise from opening or using the attachments. ** ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
Interesting to note - thanks for the heads up ;) At 10:40 PM 12/11/02 -0500, you wrote: Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very good idea. Good business. Dave ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very good idea. Good business. Dave ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day)
Remoting rocks. -Original Message- From: Tilbrook, Peter [mailto:Peter.Tilbrook;abcb.gov.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash Remoting (was RE: SOT: Sad Day) Memories of claims about Spectra's capabilities come to mind. Flash Remoting certainly is a timely idea that could enable some very impressive applications. However, the marriage of Flash and CF is far from perfect. People talk of the possibilities and show examples that wow developers, but the truth is that organizations who are trying to build complex applications that make use of Flash Remoting are finding serious problems. We have been working with Flash Remoting since the beginning and have found it to be a constant struggle. Complex objects are corrupted and line endings are changed as data is marshaled. Flash Remoting itself is different in functionality and behavior from CFMX to J2EE to .NET. The documentation is spares to non-existent, while at the same time misleading on occasion. Worst of all, Macromedia has only acknowledged out findings and has offered no solutions. Flash Remoting is a great idea, but it simply isn't all there. Like any 1.0 product, buyer beware. I look forward to the day when the issues are fixed. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: David Hannum (Ohio University) [mailto:hannum;ohio.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'll back you up. MM has a long history of abandoning products. Everyone seems to act like CF is invincible, yet it was sold by Allaire a little over a year ago. ~~ Do you think MM will keep CF around if it starts to tank? Phat chance. If the software doesn't sail, these captains jump before the women and children. I know I'm not the only one who learned Generator. :) MM bought Allaire, not because there was anything wrong with it, but because there was so much right with it. When you can do as much and more with CFMX and Flash MX than you could with Generator, with much less cost and far less server overhead, why shouldn't you abandon Generator? The cfm/fla marriage is perfect. Cost to performance and capability, it's positioned to be the greatest thing since soft butter! If you've read the postings of people who attended DevCon, you'll notice an extreme optimism among CF'ers. MM is taking CF Flash to the lead in a new wave of internet applications. And the neat part is, MM is making it possible for PHP, ASP and Java to play too! I was very skeptical when MM purchased Allaire. But they keep showing me a stronger and stronger commitment. I have no trouble staying with MM. They've shown that they are making CF one of their flagship products. As for dropping a product when it's outlived its useful life, that's just good business. That does not make a company bad. Generator's life had come to an end when it became apparent that client side power was practicle with the advances in Flash. CF is a much better server side solution to power that. Dropping Generator was not a bad idea on MM's part. It was a very good idea. Good business. Dave ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: SOT: Sad Day
Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: SOT: Sad Day
all ye present please open your can of beer and pour a bit out in honor of Vern... tony -Original Message- From: Vernon Viehe [mailto:vernviehe;yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 6:50 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Sorry to hear that news Vernon but glad to hear you'll be sticking around. I do hope this doesn't indicate that MM intends to reduce their interaction with the community. Ken -Original Message- From: Vernon Viehe [mailto:vernviehe;yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 6:50 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Wow! Well, I know this is a silly question to ask in this forum, but.. What happened??!! I, for one, was enjoying your connectivity and participation in the CF Community! I hate when a company chops off a good supply-line of information and respect. sigh Well Vern.. I'm glad you'll still be in touch, and sorry to see that you're no longer with MM. It IS truly a sad day. Lee | -Original Message- | From: Vernon Viehe [mailto:vernviehe;yahoo.com] | Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:50 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day | | | Hey Sandy, | You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some | time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able | to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, | so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member | of the community! -Vern | | Sandy Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just heard that | Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and | that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. | | Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him | know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him | ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). | | Thanks | | | | Sandra Clark | Shayna Productions | http://www.shayna.com | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: SOT: Sad Day
not at all. in fact, we intend to increase the amount of resources that we dedicate to the ColdFusion community. i had sent some info on this out earlier, but it took a while to come through to the list (it just showed up). mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Ken Wilson [mailto:kwilson;carolinapro.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:48 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day Sorry to hear that news Vernon but glad to hear you'll be sticking around. I do hope this doesn't indicate that MM intends to reduce their interaction with the community. Ken ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: SOT: Sad Day
I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: SOT: Sad Day
Yeah.. really.. what happened? Vernon has been very resourceful to this community.. i mean.. i got several post replies from Vernon quite late at night. Vern keep good track of issues and problems So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:jeff;farcryfly.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 9:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: SOT: Sad Day I'm sure the question on everyone's mind is What happened? Wasn't it about a year ago where they actually added this position? At 03:50 PM 11/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: Hey Sandy, You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be taking some time to relax, but you'll be seeing me around. I'll be able to spend more time working with CF and the other MX software, so I'll be here and in the forums participating as a member of the community! -Vern Sandy Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just heard that Vernon is no longer CF Community Manager at Macromedia and that in fact, he isn't at Macromedia any longer. Anyone knowing his personal email address. Please let him know that Sandy would like to continue emailing with him ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Thanks Sandra Clark Shayna Productions http://www.shayna.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: SOT: Sad Day
this is from an email that i sent out earlier: We will be providing more information on a new, enhanced community manager position in the very near future. This is first of a number of steps that we are taking which will allow us to be more responsive to and aggressive within the ColdFusion community. We will send out additional details about this new position very soon. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:Jebebox;earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:35 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: SOT: Sad Day So whats the deal MM cutting back? Joe ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
