Re: Quick e-mail poll: Still using your Freerunner?
1) not any more 2) no 3) gentoo 4) opkg nightmares, very slow development, instability of existing core software and i have no time to work on it. using a blackberry. it just works. On 12/29/2009 03:30 PM, Risto H. Kurppa wrote: Do you use FR as your daily/primary phone? Do you use FR as your primary PDA? What distribution you run most of the time? If you don't use FR as your daily phone/PDA, what phone did you change over to, and why? Thank you :) r ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: fso-abyss docs anywhere? (Was: GSM errors after 1024 fix)
can't we build in detection for that? Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: (NB: This compact debug output form is not optimal for recognizing #1024 anyways, you should rather watch for CSQ and CREG messages. If CSQ suddenly drops to 99 and you get thrown out of the cell, then it's 100% clear you have #1024). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: fso-abyss docs anywhere? (Was: GSM errors after 1024 fix)
actually i was vague/misleading in what i wrote. what i would like to see is for the end user to be notified in a friendly fashion. like injecting a service message into opimd/sms buffer Petr Vanek wrote: It exists already. ...another way is to use frameworkd with ti_calypso_sleep_mode = 'adaptive' and inspect the logs. Frameworkd will tell you, when a real recamping exists. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/1024#Bug_detection ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] Trac password reset for user: FirefighterBlu3
someone please fix the trac.shr-projects.org website. you need to patch trac: http://trac-hacks.org/ticket/3233 SHR wrote: Your Trac password has been reset. Here is your account information: Login URL: http://wiki.shr-project.org/trac/login Username: FirefighterBlu3 Password: x ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reading binary messages
that's an incorrect assumption. my providers only send one SMS indicating i have an MMS to read. there isn't a second SMS with a public URL. therefore i have zero chance of reading it unless i use my own software to fetch the MMS and render it by hand. Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: AFAIK there is just no way to detect if phone supports MMS or not. Binary message is sent, and when timeout is reached without downloading message, SMS with info is sent. So Freerunner users can still read their MMS, exactly as Nokia 3210 users :P ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reading binary messages
you can't. there is no guarantee by your provider that you can read MMS messages on any given phone. unless you bought a phone that indicates it can do MMS and you receive one, great. if you have a black and white dinosaur phone that doesn't do graphics and you get an MMS, you're just plain out of luck if your provider doesn't also send you a URL to read it from your PC. Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote: So how are you supposed to read them on some old or simple headsets? Not every phone has MMS support at all, even iPhone didn't have it in first versions. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reading binary messages
howdy, yup, we did. and unfortunately i had to ship my phone off for buzz fix. i just got the box in the mail today and this is one of the top items on my todo list this weekend. i've already put some code into bluesms.py in prep for copying the pdu and storing it to see a) why the two msgs, and b) why the corruption. -david Daniel Willmann wrote: [...] we talked about this some time ago and I'm still not sure why the first part of that multipart SMS is swallowed in your case. As I said the binary SMS you get not only contains the URL but other info as well. Have you tried my suggestion on setting Device.SetSimBuffersSms(False) [1] and checking with mdbus -s -l what the first message is? I suspect the first message has the attribute pid or message-class set to something strange so when the SIM buffers the message it will overwrite it. As soon as you got both messages you can reassemble the whole message and parse that according to the spec. [1]: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.html;hb=HEAD#SetSimBuffersSms ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unabel to SSH into Neo Freerunner
is the interface usbX or ethX? (on both pc and freerunner) tom wrote: mhh, i dont know what to do, - latest ubuntu - android 1.5 alpha cant ping it, ip (200) seems to be there (local), though the ubuntu-network-manger cant connect to it... regardless what i specify in /etc/interface for usb0. are there any checklists? hints? thx ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reading binary messages
MMS notification is sent as a URL via SMS. bluesms.py has initial support for MMS however my phone has been out for buzzfix for a while. with a growing number of phones and carriers, you're only allowed to fetch that URL from the phone number it's designated for. further, it's normal to require you to fetch via your APN proxy. do note that the PDU decoding for these binary messages is broken in FSO and needs to be fixed. i'll work on that when i get my phone back next week. that means that the URL sent to you could have junk prefixed to the URL, or the front of the URL could be chopped off. step 1: MMSC sends you an SMS with a URL step 2: your phone should bring up GPRS if not already up step 3: your phone should fetch the MMS by way of your APN proxy using the given URL. step 4: decode the MMS as applicable step 5: save the content you decoded and notify the message reader program that it's ready for rendering step 6: shut down GPRS if necessary -david ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reading binary messages
good :) my work has been stunted for a few weeks while my phone is out but it's my pet project :) -david Brock wrote: On 2009.08.04.17.15, David Ford wrote: | bluesms.py has initial support for MMS however my phone has been out for | .. bluesms.py is exactly what I was thinking of / looking for. I found your svn and see that it is a work-in-progress, but I'll give it a spin when I can anyway. Thanks! --Brock ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [all] opkg killed by navit install
known issue with opkg. add more swap memory and file handles. Robin Paulson wrote: 2009/7/25 Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com: i've been trying to install the latest navit (2398) from the navit repository, and am having the usual problems with opkg not being able to handle it. i've created a 128mb swap file, and turned off the x server, but no dice. never mind, opkg install navit does it ok. not sure why opkg upgrade wouldn't though ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: tangogps : updating tiles ?
Perhaps a handful of tile mirrors could be set up. I can offer some space for this. -david ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [CU] voting required
v1 please, i quite prefer the clean white background ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
QEMU MokoMakefile updates?
regarding the wiki page at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Using_QEMU_with_MokoMakefile, section Compilation and use, does anyone have updated filenames/urls for the env file? the current svn file refers to invalid urls and filenames. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu also appears to be significantly outdated. thank you, -david ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New Open Hardware company
any general price range and is the usb port OTG for both client host? it looks neat and if the price is good, i'd mount one in my car for sensor gadget stuff ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner Chat Application: Suggestions wanted!
because pidgin takes a lot of ram, is cpu heavy and does a lot of disk activity. that wheel is sort of acceptable on a fat desktop, but not on a cellphone :) Yogiz wrote: Rewrite Pidgin's UI to be as finger friendly as possible. That's probably all we need. Why reinvent the wheel. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: pidgin development version of glib and gtk requirements
opkg list | grep glib opkg list | grep gtk+ Jeff Sadowski wrote: current pidgin development is talking about requiring a minimum of glib 2.12.0 and gtk 2.10.0 I'm wondering what versions of glib and gtk openmoko is on? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: pidgin development version of glib and gtk requirements
mine is in the shop for buzz fix Jeff Sadowski wrote: output please I don't have an openmoko I could try loading the os on my gumstix but I'm not sure how well it will work. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR-U] Bluetooth and GSM... Again.
doesn't that imply it doesn't work? having to reboot the phone to go back to handset really means to me that it doesn't work. Adam Jimerson wrote: David Ford wrote: hmm, perhaps the phone should ping the BT earpiece and see if it's available before assuming it is :D That should work, at this point right now to go from BT headset to phone, the user needs to restart the phone with the headset off. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: why openmoko is so slow? Is it a joke?
i don't know where you got this information, but by far and large the OM phones have never been touted as ready for end users by OM, or by the developers working on the neo1973 or freerunner software. while i share your angst that the phone has been out for so long and software is still pretty rough around most of the corners, i deal with the fact that it's still a developer phone. it has minor flaws and sometimes major flaws. but for the most part, it -is- usable as a daily phone. i use shr-unstable and my primary use of it is text messaging with occasional telephone calls. i'm aware of a number of bugs and that BT doesn't yet work for me. however there's a push the last few days on BT and some people have reported some successes so when i get my phone back from getting a buzz fix, i'll eagerly try it out. if the speaker volume is low, turn it up. unstable? have you updated software on it? currently i am now dealing with the ar6000 kernel wedging and ophonekitd crashing on every other event. otherwise it's pretty stable. too slow? yes, it's slow. see numerous other discussions on this for the reasons why. can it be improved? yes, some things can, some things cannot. battery hungry? turn off features like GPS, WiFi, set your backlight to lower intensity, etc. just like any other cellphone, if you have -everything- enabled and are online doing stuff constantly, it -will- eat the battery. it is not the most efficient piece of hardware on the market but it is far from horrible. as to PDA and no usable software, without saying what you want to do i can't suggest anything. for me it works rather well. i can ssh around and do stuff which is my predominate need. i can't speak for other distributions except for shr-unstable and gentoo. shr-u appears to have the most conversation going on about it. gentoo is my preferred distribution and when i get my phone back that's what i'll be using. however most irc chat and mailing list chat does seem to be around shr-u. considering this, and that i can say it's pretty good from personal experience - try it. -david Joerg Lippmann wrote: When will that be? When the device is completely obsolete? Sorry, but after a year of waiting I still have an expensive brick that I can neither use as a proper phone (speaker still WAY to low, too unstable, too slow, too battery-hungry) nor as a PDA (no usable software available). So I really regret my decision to buy it. But then again, it was touted as a real phone for end-users back then and being a happy Linux-User for 14 years, I thought that I could live with some minor flaws... I'm really for the idea of freeing the phone (thats why I bought one), free hardware and the community. And I really loved to see this effort to succeed. But I came to realize that I start to hate this sluggish, instable device without good software. I cannot help it. I haven't found a single distro that works well out of the box. The best ones so far were QTopia/QTe and Android. And neither are really community efforts. So I consider my personal experiment (buying a community-driven phone for 300 EUR) as failed. Sorry. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR-U] Bluetooth and GSM... Again.
hmm, perhaps the phone should ping the BT earpiece and see if it's available before assuming it is :D Adam Jimerson wrote: Yes thanks to the updated wiki page I also got my bt headset working, but does the phone see when the bt headset is turned off? After turning off my bt headset and making a test call with the phone I get no sound, I'm sure what is going on is the phone is still trying to route sound to the bt headset. Reading further on in the wiki I see there is a dbus command to connect the headset manually is there some reverse command to disconnect it? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SD-card faulty?
some 2G cards were created less equal than others :/ i have two 4G cards and both are entirely unusable inside the gt02. file system corruption occurs within minutes. same cards are perfectly reliable on my desktop and laptop. The Digital Pioneer wrote: I'm pretty sure all 8GB cards will be supported. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR-U] Bluetooth and GSM... Again.
there's plenty of end-user interest, but none of the BT headsets i've tried are functional. i'm not willing to keep buying BT toy after BT toy that doesn't work. for headsets they pair but then there's nothing but silence. buttons are useless and playing audio outside phone calls is also useless. you can't expect end users to keep on trying things in vain when there's so little success reported. we won't even go there with the documentation : Paul Fertser wrote: kimaidou kimai...@gmail.com writes: hum... I heard here the FSO 5.5 will provide a bt headset thing. Will this change something here ? Like help people to connect the bt and transfer audio with a dbus command ? BT support for FSO already works for quite some time (several months). Lack of interest from end-users is something that clearly shows the developers that they shouldn't waste time improving it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [shr-unstable] missing dependency for latest update
just ignore it, force it, or play hop skotch. i ignored this for about a month before forcing it. Petr Vanek wrote: $ opkg upgrade * ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for frameworkd-config-shr-dev: * frameworkd-config-shr (= 0.8.5.1+gitr1473+130fb4c50f81b803d42b32c69f20e0713930f741-82+060495f1ddcf6db79c1cd9d12e51b47adac8e2ed-r6) * there's no frameworkd-config-shr package of any revision in http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/ipk/armv4t/ - is this a mistake in the dependencies, or a missing package? i ran into the same thing... does your phone work? I get No service... Petr ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: NABBLE [was: Re: [omgps] collect feature requests]
Yes, and he and I discussed it on IRC a few minutes after all 4 postings. He clicked to submit and it didn't respond so he clicked again and tried yet again etc. While it appeared that the web interface wasn't posting to him, it actually did post which made him post it four times. In my original message I pointed out that it was nabble at fault, as indicated by the different message IDs but the exact same message body. On 06/30/09 04:32, Jose Luis Perez Diez wrote: [...] Yes those messages share the same text but have different message id and timestamps. See the cause on1246324530823-3178414.p...@n2.nabble.com :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
NABBLE [was: Re: [omgps] collect feature requests]
For those of you who post using nabble -- please reconsider. Nabble posts duplicates. The below was posted by nabble four times. The headers clearly indicate nabble at fault with four different originating message IDs. Additionally, many people report problems with nabble's javascript (no, JS isn't evil Doc) in any browser other than firefox. So please don't point people to nabble as a place to follow threads or research a message. TY 4x posted message: On 06/29/09 20:29, mqy wrote: First, I must appreciate all omgps users, for your test and feed back. Because ersion 0.1 gets stable for now, and it will be integrated into official openembeded repository, I'm planing start next major developing stage. Here is current plan: 1. better supports for track logging, nuk ask me to add altitude to track log, good point. I can remember complains about the lack of POI, and suggestion of voice recording to help post precess of track logging. 2. support dynamic layers, including POI, openbmap data, etc. my concerns are (1) performance (2) is it possible or necessary to support user defined layers as plugins? 3. and other big things related to routing. Requirement of version 0.2 will be frozen due 07-07, the core task is to make it track-friendly for OSM map and JOMS application. Please feel free to comment or add new feature requests here. regards, mqy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why one cannot recommend the freerunner as a daily phone (was Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?)
people have different ideas about how to use their devices. regarding netiquette, opinion varies and there is no one solution which fits everyone best. not every wants to use text based clients, nor scroll to the end of a page. regardless of it being near instant or several steps, they are still unnecessary steps. in the end this is, as it always has been, a religious preference that some people attempt to enforce passionately. thankfully the passionate argument of 40 column text has disappeared. On 06/26/09 01:28, Matthias Apitz wrote: I think I'd never use my FR to read and answer the hundreds of mail I receive every day; ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why one cannot recommend the freerunner as a daily phone (was Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?)
mind you, while i've enjoyed the convenience of learning and writing my sms app in python/pygtk, when i'm done learning it'll definitely be redone in C. i'm also interested in seeing what vala has to offer and the contrast of it with C. -david On 06/25/09 05:15, David Fokkema wrote: But it won't use more than, lets just mention some random language that's currently making up most of FSO / Paroli (thus Om2009), python. I'm very fond of python BTW, but I don't think efficiently using memory resources is one of its strengths, but you can prove me wrong any time, ;-) David ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why one cannot recommend the freerunner as a daily phone (was Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?)
actually - and i'm not picking on you, it really bugs me that developers think oh, i don't need to trim this down and it's ok to suck up more resources because next year ram will be cheaper that's the reason why we have desktops that still bog down with half a dozen programs running even though we now have orders of magnitude more resources. imagine what our desktops could actually do if we didn't have 183 levels of abstraction, 52 different sound ways to do sound, themes and rendering, etc, etc. just imagine having a browser that could actually scroll smoothly with multimedia objects, without requiring a quad xeon system and 8gigs of ram. please don't buy into the wasteful use of resources as planning for the future. it's bothersome to go through accessories like a pair of shoes. that's one of the things that makes linux (*nix) so much better is that it can still run on old hardware. i nearly miss most of my calls on my phone even when it's sitting right here next to me because it takes so long for the phone user interface software to respond to me and tell the gsm modem to answer the call. that's entirely silly. i answer it and i can leave it sitting on the desk for another 7-15 seconds while it keeps on ringing before i pick it up and can talk. every other cellphone i've ever had, had a nearly instant transition from ring to talk when i answered it. :-/ On 06/25/09 06:26, mobi phil wrote: How long do you think people will carry arround the freerunner in their pockets, when next year the same time you will be able to buy a crap :) nvidia tegra based device with 500MB memory for 200$ ? Plan for the future, not for the past :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why one cannot recommend the freerunner as a daily phone (was Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?)
have you ever tried reading an ever growing message thread on your FR? scrolling isn't easy, nor is it fast. -d On 06/25/09 08:14, Matthias Apitz wrote: I think one (you and others) should not do top posting; in addition I think that the full thread is less than zero usefull; matthias ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why one cannot recommend the freerunner as a daily phone (was Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?)
do you understand the weight involved with using c++? without very very careful management, c++ is rather hefty for embedded devices. granted, having 128M to work in is indeed far more tenable than smaller devices but it's still onerous. C is much more lightweight and very functional. any benefits of c++ usually don't overcome the drawbacks for embedded devices. -d On 06/24/09 07:09, mobi phil wrote: Hey!! Is this kind of phrase i am not interested in c++. driving the linux phone development? I can never understand how is it possible to have such a huge gap on the scale between C programmers and C++ programmers? Why are C++ programmers dying out? Is it because some C programmers never managed to get the point with C++ and those who did, switched automatically to Java? I propose a C wrapper arround Qt, for the C programmers, and everybody will still benefit, beleive me. QT is a treasure, is a nice clean code! And it is fast! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why one cannot recommend the freerunner as a daily phone (was Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?)
that is one typical aspect. Michal Brzozowski wrote: 2009/6/24 David Ford da...@blue-labs.org mailto:da...@blue-labs.org do you understand the weight involved with using c++? without very very careful management, c++ is rather hefty for embedded devices. granted, having 128M to work in is indeed far more tenable than smaller devices but it's still onerous. C is much more lightweight and very functional. any benefits of c++ usually don't overcome the drawbacks for embedded devices. What drawbacks do you mean? That is uses more memory? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PISI 0.3 released
The FSO dbus api let's you fetch the information regarding phonebooks and it'll tell you how many slots the sim card has for that phonebook. No need to manually set a limit. -david ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why one cannot recommend the freerunner as a daily phone (was Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?)
that's all quite true. however, allow me to make just one point. this phone is marketed as a developer's phone, and all the websites related to this phone all have (or should have) discussion largely surrounding this. :) On 06/22/09 21:51, Joerg Lippmann wrote: [...] let me cite another mail (from Vasco Nevoa): Yes, it needs A LOT of attention and tweaking for about 3 months until you get it just right for yourself, but after that it's good enough as a phone and GPS, and a pretty good PDA. See my point? Best wishes! j�...@home ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why one cannot recommend the freerunner as a daily phone (was Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?)
except for ophonekitd being crashy currently, nearly everything else works decently for me. it's stable enough for me to be developing my SMS app for it. honestly, i only do these fixes for issues about once every two to three weeks. there are bugs that others encounter that i've never seen and there are bugs that i have encountered or deal with, that others never see, or they don't impact them. (current shr-unstable) so, at the moment, it's working pretty good and i'm not spending any time fixing anything that -i- didn't break :) -d On 06/22/09 22:42, Damian Spriggs wrote: Sure, it's a developer phone, and is marketed as such, but what they don't tell you is what kind of developer. When I got mine 6 months ago, I took that to mean applications, not everything about this needs massive help. I think one of the pitfalls for OM was trying to put everything out at once, instead of systematically selecting and stabilizing a kernel, then get the underlying system working, and finally get the UI and useable applications. Now I haven't tried all the distros out there, but from the chatter I read on the maillists, it seems that each are shooting for that moving target in continuing the all at once approach, and predictably coming up short. Don't get me wrong, I love my Freerunner, and it's my daily/only phone (Hackable:1and SHR). I just wish I could spend more time working on applications than messing around with little fixes, rebooting, and waiting for something reasonably stable to develop for. :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?
Here they are, please note if this email gets munged, the mdbus line ending in the .txt is one one line: r...@nibbly-bits:~# cat backup_contacts.sh #!/bin/sh d=$(date +%Y.%m.%d-%H%M) mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ogsmd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.RetrievePhonebook 'contacts' contacts-$d.txt r...@nibbly-bits:~# cat backup_messages.sh #!/bin/sh d=$(date +%Y.%m.%d-%H%M) mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ogsmd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.RetrieveMessagebook 'all' messages-$d.txt -david ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: New case (was Re: Freerunner's Future)
to whomever does this, please put a small stylus into a recess in the new case :) On 06/18/09 20:18, Werner Almesberger wrote: [ Let's give threads that change direction a clearer name than just Freerunner's Future ] Fabian Sch?lzel wrote: I'm not an engineer, but a draftsman, so I could also help with the mechanical design and modeling of the case and other things related to the project. Great ! I think redoing the GTA02 case should be a project on its own, independent from gta02-core or such. [...] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?
i beg to differ. i -reliably- use it for text messaging and brief phone calls on a daily basis. but i'm also someone that can fix most upgrade hassles on my own and if something isn't working right, i now know what to do to fix it. once in a great while Xglamo crashes, once in a while enlightenment gets sluggish, and once in a while someone makes ophonekitd crashy. excepting these, even though it is a developer phone, it works reliably. i SMS people and places all day long. mind you, i wrote my own SMS app which is far more functional/featureful than the default. -david On 06/18/09 13:49, Joerg Lippmann wrote: Am Donnerstag 18 Juni 2009 schrieb Brolin Empey: I need all of these features: * a *reliable* phone for SMS and brief voice calls. Then the Freerunner is not for you. It may sound harsh, but it's definitly *not* suitable for daily use. Period. I tried OM2007, 2008, QTe, SHR, FSO, Hackable:1, Android, Android-cupcake. QT- Extended-Improved. All are incomplete and have huge flaws. Apart from that the battery life is mediocre at best, the device is lame and sound is terrible. Sad but true. j�...@home ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?
if you want an ALPHA state application, you can grab a generated tarball of the python script and notes at: https://blue-labs.org/websvn/listing.php?repname=BlueLabs+SVNpath=%2FBlueLabs%2FBlueSMS%2F#path_BlueLabs_BlueSMS_ https://blue-labs.org/websvn/listing.php?repname=BlueLabs+SVNpath=%2FBlueLabs%2FBlueSMS%2F#path_BlueLabs_BlueSMS_ if you want just the python script which is the only necessary part, get it via: https://blue-labs.org/svn/BlueLabs/BlueSMS/bluesms.py please remember that i consider this alpha quality software. there are known issues, incomplete functions (MMS), and sometimes a rough edge. it operates via mdbus and fetches messages directly from the SIM. there's no integration yet with the opimd software that is being developed. i typically make commits one or more times a day. if you intend to use it, feedback is appreciated. i think the only non-typical dependency is python-netclient which is in (at least) the SHR unstable repository. -david jeremy jozwik wrote: On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 1:38 PM, David Ford da...@blue-labs.org mailto:da...@blue-labs.org wrote: excepting these, even though it is a developer phone, it works reliably. i SMS people and places all day long. mind you, i wrote my own SMS app which is far more functional/featureful than the default. -david you should share. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is a FreeRunner sufficient for me?
that's with screen on. i can easily get a couple days out of my fone if it's entirely idle. your nokia suspends/sleeps, it's just not a user visible thing. -david Brolin Empey wrote: Do you mean 6-8 hours with the screen on or off? If off, that is very poor compared to my Nokia 6103b: I can leave my Nokia 6103b on for days before the battery meter reaches ¼ (the battery meter uses 1-4 bars). there are also suspend functions which expand battery life. i cant say how much because im on an older OS version and my suspend is non-functional :) I never need to use suspend on my Nokia 6103b. I do not think it even has a suspend mode — at least not one the user can activate. basically with my computer usb cable at work and my car charger i have battery all day With my Nokia 6103b, I can have battery for multiple days (more days if it is only for 16 hours or less per day) without recharging. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: How to get started with Openmoko phone?
Mikhail Umorin wrote: I tried both t-mobile and att pre-paid phones. t-mobile sold me just a SIM card ($20 in store, $7 online), att sold me with a phone ($20 cheapest, with 3G card). Both worked fine. To keep an old cell number one has to sign up for a contract. i'm fairly sure that is marketing BS. afaik, there is nothing required to keep an old number. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[shr/elementary] fonts and styles
raster? what are the settings i can put in a dotfile to adjust elementary app fonts and styles? when i export my display to my desktop, shr/elementary applications have horribly huge or utterly tiny fonts and the window itself is not resizable. further, buttons are extraordinarily huge. thank you! -david ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: usb0 vs eth0
The udev operation is simple. The net interface naming is normally
based on the MAC address and is stored in /etc/udev/rules.d/{something}
like 70-persistent-net.rules IF your distribution runs the persistence
script. Otherwise device naming is based on the order in which devices
are found by the kernel. If you load modules by hand, and you alternate
which you load first, then you would see the associated order change.
Mind you, if everything is done automatically by the kernel, the device
order can change if the kernel's sequence of loading drivers changes.
Every once in a great while that happens.
Here's my server's persistent net file:
Colt ~ # cat /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
# This file was automatically generated by the /lib64/udev/write_net_rules
# program run by the persistent-net-generator.rules rules file.
#
# You can modify it, as long as you keep each rule on a single line.
# PCI device 0x14e4:0x1659 (tg3)
SUBSYSTEM==net, ACTION==add, DRIVERS==?*,
ATTR{address}==00:1e:c9:2a:1c:64, ATTR{type}==1, KERNEL==eth*,
NAME=eth0
# PCI device 0x14e4:0x1659 (tg3)
SUBSYSTEM==net, ACTION==add, DRIVERS==?*,
ATTR{address}==00:1e:c9:2a:1c:65, ATTR{type}==1, KERNEL==eth*,
NAME=eth1
These are rules and they can be changed. If you want the 1c:64 device
to be named funkadiddle instead of eth0, you'd simply edit the file
and make the change of NAME=funkadiddle
If you alter the MAC address of your device, either by hand or on boot
such as in Qi etc, then it won't match if you have a rule set for the
old MAC address and it'll get the next available interface name.
So, simply set up your persistent-net rules file like you want and be
happy. Name your interfaces usbcable and wifi and set your
/etc/network/interfaces file to match if it pleases you so.
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [any] using a dumb battery?
related tangent; what microchip is used in the FR battery for those of us that want to build our own battery pack? On 05/20/09 07:35, joa...@verona.se wrote: I'm trying to solder together a dumb battery with higher capacity for the FreeRunner. It doesnt work too well, since the power management cant read the current charge, and decides to shutdown the device. How do I prevent this? How do I enable charging of my dumb battery? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [possibly any] Your storage is full
The backup script(s) I posted are: r...@nibbly-bits:~# cat backup_messages.sh #!/bin/sh d=$(date +%Y.%m.%d-%H%M) mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ogsmd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.RetrieveMessagebook 'all' messages-$d.txt r...@nibbly-bits:~# cat backup_contacts.sh #!/bin/sh d=$(date +%Y.%m.%d-%H%M) mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ogsmd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.RetrievePhonebook 'contacts' contacts-$d.txt Mind the line wrapping - the mdbus line is all on one line and ends at the .txt I also had this problem for a few weeks, it was rather frustrating. My FR -thought- the sim was empty and had no messages in it, but in reality it was chock full. I had to pull my sim and put it in another phone about five times before the problem got fixed and deleting them actually did delete. -david On 05/17/09 05:16, Chaosspawn23 wrote: ivvmm schrieb: Hello list. My friend's been having this problem for a long time(since I installed her SHR, before that it was FDOM). And I experience it myself. The message 'Your storage is full' is being displayed for me each time the distribution boots and nothing could be done with it. Cannot see _ANY_ sms in the messages app. There is _nothing_ displayed. My friend says she's been able to delete them by inserting the sim into her Motorola and deleting them by hand there. What's the problem here? What app works with the sim card? Does the gsm modem work with it so it is broken or is it just a modem? I *think* I had the same problem some time ago with shr testing. I was able to fix them by deleting all (!) messages on the SIM via SHR-Settings (the option for that is under phone IIRC). Not a nice fix, but it works. If you want to keep your messages, you could run the backup script somebody posted here some time ago to copy your messages into a file in advance. Regards, Konstantin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR-testing] save SMS messages to text file?
this is what i use to dump the messages from my sim card to a text file. then i delete the messages on the sim card so i have room for new messages. a limit of 30 messages is entirely impractical. that gets filled up before noon arrives unless i constantly delete messages. r...@nibbly-bits:~# cat backup_messages.sh #!/bin/sh d=$(date +%Y.%m.%d-%H%M) mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ogsmd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.RetrieveMessagebook 'all' messages-$d.txt On 04/26/09 19:06, Daniel.Li wrote: I don't know about current status. But it seems impossible, if u are using openmoko-message, see below http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2619250 On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 20:13 +0200, Bram Mertens wrote: Hi I've succesfully flashed my GSM firmware with the provided uSD image so now I'm able to use my FreeRunner as a phone. My old phone has several SMS messages stored in it's internal memory and allowed receiving messages to this memory even though the space on the SIM for storing SMS messages is full. Now off course only those messages on the SIM card are available on the FreeRunner and the messages application immediately complained that there is no space for new messages. Doesn't the FreeRunner allow storing SMS messages other than on the SIM? And in any case: is there a way to extract or backup SMS messages to a clear text file? I couldn't find anyhting on the wiki about this. Regards Bram ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SHR Testing upgrade question
the upgrade changed eth0 from wireless to wired. just go edit your /etc/network/interfaces, delete the extraneous things like wlan0 if you're not using it, and make eth0 your wireless again. being that the wifi mgt tools don't work for me, all my network config is managed via this file. -d Robin Paulson wrote: 2009/4/20 Adam Jimerson vend...@gmail.com: In SHR Testing is it wise to do a opkg upgrade command, would it be any different than what comes in the image that gets flashed on the phone, basically if I were to flash a older release of SHR testing onto my phone would opkg update opkg upgrade take me up to the version that was released on April 16th or would it break my phone? until my networking got fubar'd on the last upgrade, on friday, opkg upgrade was working fine for me. i'm not sure whether the problem is something i did, or a problem with shr -- Linux: freedom to build is good Please top-post and trim when replying to my messages. I most often read mail on a small device. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GMail, silence and other problems
I am not seeing your emails duplicated. -david Christopher Heiny wrote: On Thursday 12 July 2007, ground control picked up the following transmission from Karsten Ensinger: It also seems as if only GMail customers complain about a disruption of operation. Also disrupted for starband.net ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail.com problems and this list
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: Marco Barreno [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can someone with admin access to the list machine send me the SMTP logs for one of the duplicated messages? I'm working in the Gmail group at Google for the summer and I can have someone try to diagnose the problem from this end. The full SMTP logs would be helpful. I don't have access there, but I can fill in part of the puzzle. At least one of the opemoko machines at 88.198.124.203 opens an smtp connection back to the sending domain to verify the sender address of any incoming message. The smtp-back machine has messed up DNS. The claimed rDNS for that IP is openmoko.org but the forward DNS check for that openmoko.org doesn't list 88.198.124.203 as a valid address. If the sending machine is checking for spammers claiming a bunk DNS name will reject 88.198.124.203's SMTP verify. The opemmoko machine will then interpret that failed smtp verify attempt as the verified address not existing and will decline the initial incoming transfer. In short, folks really need to check the forward and backward DNS and make sure it is consistent, especially if that machine tries open an outgoing SMTP connection (such as the attempted verification). Jul 9 12:48:17 arbol postfix/smtp[26802]: 29AF91C98001: to=[EMAIL PROTECTED], relay=sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203]:25, delay=6.2, delays=0.18/0.04/5.4/0.64, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203] said: 451 Could not complete sender verify callout (in reply to RCPT TO command)) Jul 9 12:55:35 arbol postfix/smtpd[26864]: warning: 88.198.124.203: address not listed for hostname openmoko.org Jul 9 12:55:35 arbol postfix/smtpd[26864]: connect from unknown[88.198.124.203] Jul 9 12:55:36 arbol postfix/smtpd[26864]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[88.198.124.203]: 554 5.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [88.198.124.203]; from= to=[EMAIL PROTECTED] proto=SMTP helo=sita.openmoko.org Jul 9 12:55:36 arbol postfix/smtpd[26864]: disconnect from unknown[88.198.124.203] Jul 9 12:55:38 arbol postfix/smtp[26863]: 29AF91C98001: to=[EMAIL PROTECTED], relay=sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203]:25, delay=447, delays=441/0.05/1.2/4.3, dsn=5.0.0, status=bounced (host sita.openmoko.org[88.198.124.203] said: 550-Verification failed for [EMAIL PROTECTED] 550-Called: 64.142.50.224 550-Sent: RCPT TO:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 550-Response: 554 5.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [88.198.124.203] 550 Sender verify failed (in reply to RCPT TO command)) -wolfgang That wouldn't cause duplicates. You got a 550 error which means delivery was not attempted. I'll repeat again because a lot of people are coming up with some kinda wild answers. Google mail was causing dupes within google mail -before- it talks to any server outside of google mail. I posted the smtp logs of a message from one dupe chain that revealed this. I compared it with two other dupe chains and they both showed the same internal problem. Regardless it appears to have been fixed as google emails are no longer making dupe chains. -david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: List problems, receiving multiple identical copies of each message
Ulrik Rasmusen wrote: Hello, Just after I started receiving mails from the mailing list again, something weird happened. It seems like some messages are sent out 3-4 times over a period of up to 12-14 hours. They have the same timestamp and the same content, so they are completely identical. For instance, I recevied the message modular open phone components yesterday at 20:03, 20:12, 20:34, 21:12, 23:52, and then this morning at 01:43 (all times GMT) Am I the only one having this problem? --Ulrik no. it's the google 777 bug. -david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail.com problems and this list
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: yes, I can confirm this. This is from our exim4 installation on the list server: 2007-07-07 09:17:19 1I74UH-0005cE-SD = [EMAIL PROTECTED] H=py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.176] P=esmtp S=3940 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2007-07-07 09:27:18 1I74dw-000682-6l = [EMAIL PROTECTED] H=py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.181] P=esmtp S=3940 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... This isn't enough to tell which side is causing the misbehavior. I find that slapping a tcpdump(1) on the interface and logging to a file is the simplest way to see what is really happening (eg. tcpdump -w /xxx/logfile -s 1500 -i eth0). Running wireshark() (formerly ethereal()) and using the follow tcp stream shows the back and forth conversation. In this case I bet you'll see that gmail is either timing out due to slow replies or packets are getting dropped and gmail is asking for lots of retransmissions and eventually throws in the towel. My gut feel is that the receiver is most likely the villain with either and overloaded CPU and/or lots of slow antispam filters that need to be run. (If you want help setting up the tcpdump or looking at the logs, feel free to send mail to my gmail address. I've tracked down enough mail problems like this that this is very old hat.) -wolfgang The log that I posted showed the initial retransmit happening within google's gmail servers. -david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: gmail.com problems and this list
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: David Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The log that I posted showed the initial retransmit happening within google's gmail servers. The log you showed is exactly want I'd expect if gmail timed out due to a slow 250 reply to the data phase of the SMTP (eg. the final OK didn't happen quickly enough for its liking.) Or am I missing something? -wolfgang You're missing something. point A is origin, point B is gmail, point C is gmail, point D is destination. From point B to point C is where resending is happening. gmail-B keeps resending to gmail-C who then sends it to the destination. I'm getting dupes from everybody sending mail via gmail. Dupes to the list and dupes from person to person. -david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
mismangled spam [was: Re: You're in luck - special savings inside.]
How did the X-Originating-IP get set to 425.57.39.1? Was this a openmoko.org error or was this inserted by the highly fuckible wprt-4db600a3.pool.einsundeins.de ([77.182.0.163])? community@lists.openmoko.org wrote: [spam snipped out] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firefox for mobiles
For the same reason I use open office instead of vi. Lynx is far from capable. Even with tuning, FF is a dastard piggy. I've tested things with FF. Start it with no history, no recovered session. Load up digg.com and do nothing. Just let it sit there. It will sit there and slowly grow and grow and grow. The caching isn't the problem, that's tunable. The problem is the memory leaks -- all the valgrind reports turned into moz teams (and ignored). Unless the current mozilla paradigm is changed, putting a moz product on a cellphone is not just asking but demanding people reboot their phones very often. I put minimo on my cellphone and I know once I use minimo, I can use my phone for about 12 hours or less before it gets so sluggish that I have to pull the battery out to reboot it because it won't respond to the power button any more. If I manage to get to the task list and kill minimo, it gets snappy again instantly. Mozilla are a great group of people and ideas and I've been very impressed with all the things that have been accomplished. Unfortunately pretty much everyone racing to eclipse them with browsers that are far faster, more W3C compliant, and just overall better at things. Mozilla seem intent on stagnating. Serious bugs (design flaws) that have been around for years are dismissed as there isn't a right way to do it. Like fixed position background images and page scrolling. Alpha blending - transparent images with a background. Turns powerhouse desktop browsing into a horridly choppy stalling experience. I just can't envision Mozilla building a useful product for smart phones whether it's the Neo or any other phone. The neo is far from being a powerhouse device and sadly the M$ browser engine is far more capable and blindingly faster than minimo is. Bradley Hook wrote: While FF does have a fairly large footprint, I've never had these kinds of memory consumption problems. I generally leave my FF sessions open for days or weeks at home, and I simultaneously load 3D games, OOo, graphics apps, and other stuff without ever having trouble with memory (granted I do have 2GB). However, even the large memory footprint that I do see has an explanation, and can be tuned by tweaking about:config. By default, FF caches every page loaded on every tab for that sessions. If you consider a geek's multi-day surfing session, that is a lot of data to cache, and the cache data also can't be compressed. Since the primary target of FF is the average user -- which has several short surfing sessions and usually closes the browser between sessions -- the default settings make sense. If this is not your surfing style, then change your settings. That said, the full blown browser would be an awfully hefty app to put on a phone, and the minimo browser is currently targeting windows portables. Why not go with something with a tiny footprint, time-tested and proven lynx anyone? ~Bradley ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: firefox for mobiles
If it's anything like mozilla/firefox now, we're gonna need a hefty battery, hugely more cpu, and about 1G of ram onboard. I used to love FF, now it's just a cpu/ram hog that usually gets killed by the kernel every 36-48 hours for taking about 2G of ram. The mozilla team needs to figure out how to slim down in a huge way before putting moz on a fone. Minimo is a good idea but very very slow and quickly eats up all the ram on a phone. Great idea, very bad implementation, and for some reason I still prefer it over other browsers. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yowza! Looks like our favorite Web browser is about to go mobile. Mozilla head honcho, Mitchell Baker, told the folks at APC magazine that Mozilla is working on a Firefox to go for your cellphone. It's a long-term project (meaning it's not coming out any time soon), but the goal is to allow it to work with all the add-ons and plug-ins that the full version works with. link to short story with link to full story below -- Forwarded message -- From: Craig Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: SVHMPC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SVHMPC] Hot dang http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/firefox-to-go/mozilla-prepping-a-mobile-firefox-browser-259491.php ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Email Push Service :) smtp+dnotify+Asterisk+... :)
Elliot Foster wrote:
David Ford wrote:
It's a great idea, never thought otherwise. My comment should be
taken to mean, don't reinvent the wheel, take the existing wheel,
sand it down like new, and refinish it so it's all bright and shiny
again.
What if we want a wheel with rubber, rather than just bare wood?
Besides, there is plenty of stuff that can be reused.
Procmail/maildrop would be the most obvious. The mail server won't
change (other than the MDA,) asterisk would work well (as Robert
pointed out,) and we are going to need some new software on the client
side no matter what. I'm just talking about the glue between the mail
server and asterisk.
Procmail doesn't need modified. All you have to do today is enable
COMSAT=yes in your procmailrc then tell your biff how to do the
notification. Comsat is the network's message notification service,
biff is the handler mechanism.
example procmailrc,
:0
* ^TO_ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
{
COMSAT=yes
...other stuff
}
This is a procmailrc solution w/ biff, but not everyone runs procmail so
a broad MDA solution is wanted as well. Ideally the end solution should
be agnostic from the handheld's point of view. We want the handheld to
be able to have a [x] Use SMS for new mail notification, i.e. PUSH
email, and not worry about configuring the server to support it.
Otherwise this is a hackers only solution and useless for everyone
except us. We need to support the protocol that exchange uses since that
is very common as well. Not have an option for every type of pushed
solution available.
Ideally the procmail/comsat/biff solution would result in an SMS
notification in the same format as is already implemented for other
phones w/ i.e. exchange.
That's exactly what I was saying (notify the handheld of new mail.) I
agree about the reuse of existing solutions, but I don't know of a
single mail server that supports biff/comsat, so I don't think that it
would be very useful to 're-awaken' comsat/biff. We would still need
to modify some portion of the mail server (procmail) in order to
notify comsat/biff. I'm assuming all comsat/biff would do is trigger
the notification to the handheld, so why not do that directly?
In general, there's no server to patch, just a script that would be
dropped into procmail/maildrop or whatever your MDA is.
Sendmail doesn't do comsat internally, it relies on the external MDA/LDA
to accomplish it. Postfix comes with comsat service. Qmail naturally
is in it's own little world of how things should be done and considers
comsat an abomination, but there still exists qbiff.
This is what push email does w/ exchange when you configure your
phone to ask for SMS for email notification.
Right, I said that in my email. I agree with you in how it
could/should be done, but I don't think it would be very useful to use
biff/comsat, as they would be an unnecessary middleman. I think it
would be cleaner to just have a script that someone can drop into
their MDA to trigger a pull from the client. Like I said in my
previous email, it seems the best place to do it, because then they
can filter for specific emails. I don't know if I would want my phone
being woken up by every mailing list email that I get, for example.
Filtering is obviously and definitely good, but the script is just a
rewrite for what already exists and is already supported and means that
multiple means of notification are already possible.
It is debatable whether the phone should be capable of filtering
notifications and choosing it's reaction, or being dumb and always
reacting to notifications. Personally I think that is akin to a profile
just like when to respond to an incoming call.
In the end, I would rather have an MDA agnostic solution that uses an
already developed protocol for new message notification where the phone
controls whether SMS notifies are used or not. I.e. SMS push notifies
registered with exchange. If we develop hacker only solutions, the
phone will remain a hacker only product and just won't penetrate outside
the community.
I want a phone that a hacker is drooling over and a phone that is
entirely feature functional for my secretary that -I- don't have to muck
around on the backend to make everything work. That's an enterprise
support nightmare.
Right now Win phones and some Palm phones already have the option to
enable new mail notifications by SMS. It's rapidly being adopted in
smart phones. I sincerely think it's a good idea to incorporate what is
already supported as well as all of our make-me-happy stuff with our
server stuff that we control like procmail, and it should be as
invisible to the end user interface as possible. What we do under the
hood is up to us. What we do in front of the user needs to be clean and
functional and as agnostic as possible.
:)
-david
p.s. please don't CC me - i'm subscribed to both lists :)
___
OpenMoko community mailing
Re: Please no crossposting! Re: Information regarding the Messaging Support in OpenMoko
Jon Phillips wrote: On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 14:05 +0100, Harald Welte wrote: [...] We don't consider MMS as something that the typical user of the Neo1973 would use anyway. We have SMS, and we have GPRS for services like ICQ, Jabber, e-mail and the like. If somebody in the community wants to implement MMS, that's great. But we don't see it as a core feature of the device. That's good to know. Also, who uses MMS? Seems like the typical user would just email and attach media and/or just s/ftp Jon :-/ I use SMS, MMS, and email a lot and I am very much a deverloper as well as a user. -david p.s. the subject line is no crossposting! which list do people want this to remain on? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Any alternative ideas to fullscreen popup-messages?
Tomasz Zielinski wrote: 2007/1/31, Bryan Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I think the first time it pops up while I'm doing something else (Mickey calling. Answer/Ignore/Reject? while I'm putting something on my calendar), and I accidentally click one of the buttons, I'm going to be very annoyed. I'd also be annoyed if I had to deal with the dialog before going back to whatever I was doing. Well, this is the cellular phone, so it's main goal is calling. If you don't want to, just turn off GSM subsystem. Popup window from other (not-focused) application could lock touchscreen for 0.5 sec like many phones do with keyboard, so no one taps wrong button by mistake. An area of the phone, i.e. a particular corner should be designated for such events and other normal use buttons such as the current application should try to avoid that area so inadvertent triggering would be minimised. -david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2-3 parallel solution to choose by the user? Re: Any alternative ideas to fullscreen popup-messages?
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: [..] D'oh. That surprises me a bit... after all, the Neo is a phone, so I would think incoming phone calls should always popup [in default profile]. What do the others think? It shouldn't :) Do you answer all calls to your phone? My phone is often very busy because I use it for business. When an incoming call interrupts me I usually lose the work I'm doing or lose the navigation I'm accomplishing. The phone should ring passively just like all other icon notifications and allow me to either answer or ignore or redirect to voicemail without interrupting input focus or any function the phone's viewport is doing at the moment. It's terribly annoying to be in the middle of something and the phone rings or a pop up happens and my fingers are already flying.. and I inadvertently dismiss the popup or hit the wrong button on the popup or cancel the phone call or ... etc. In addition to that, my mind is already 1/2 changed to the new popup and my fingers then go to answer or otherwise deal with the interruption that my fingers just dealt with a split second before and therefore I end up messing up something of what I was doing before the incoming call or other interrupting popup occurred. Here's a grand example. You're inside your voicemail navigating menus and dealing with temporary information. Your phone rings in with a new call and your fingers are busy hitting voicemail commands. *bam* Your inbound phone call is accidently disconnected or answered not to your choosing and because your fingers are still flying, you just accidentally erased that new voicemail you were going to listen to because your brain switched from voicemail handling to phone handling and you hit the wrong button. It should be more clear now :) David ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Email Push Service :) smtp+dnotify+Asterisk+... :)
Elliot F. wrote: Or you could simply modify the mail server to trigger a script when a message is delivered, rather than having to poll each directory/file. A procmail/maildrop filter would be one way to implement it easily (allowing you to filter for messages from specific people, to certain folders, etc.) To be honest, this is an ancient idea. grep comsat /etc/services New mail notification has been around since the dawn of mail itself. Look for comsat in 'man procmail' and review 'man comsat' and biff, etc. -david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Tim Newsom wrote: Ok Steve. I grant you that the first derivative of acceleration is velocity... How do you propose to gain any velocity information when the acceleration measured is zero as would be the case if you are at a constant velocity? This is why I am saying you would need some better source for velocity. I grant you that the times when a car is at a constant velocity may be few... Or it may be that when on cruise control on any flat road you may actually see zero or almost zero acceleration. OTOH, detecting the direction that a person turned with the accelerometer may be very useful in dead reckoning. --Tim Math. The acceleration to 50 kilometers per hour then staying at that speed produced an acceleration vector in a given direction. Until there are mathematically equal opposing deceleration(s), you have a known velocity and vector. It's all in the math :) Zero acceleration only means your current velocity and vector are constant. -david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?
He's not an idiot, he's just being bluntly vocal. I sense his frustration with not having the device and his concern that others will get to market first and stealing the 'community made' thunder and of course in financial speak, the market share. We all want toys and I'm sure OM is itching at the bit to get their product out. They however like every other company, will encounter times when things don't move as fast as they want them to. I would be amazed if OM wasn't eager to start selling their product just to show the world look at what we did! That doesn't decrease our drooling however and sometimes people get impatient and .. vibrant .. when goals slip. :) -david Paul Jimenez wrote: Sean please just ignore idiots like this. The rest of us know you're doing the best job you can and want to see the phone out ASAP just as much as we do. In summary: ignore the trolls and keep doing what you're doing. --pj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Steven Milburn wrote: Wow, I can't believe I got that backwards, thanks for the correction. Kind of embarrassing considering I actually work on this stuff. However, it doesn't invalidate that you don't need any more information than the accelerometer and a starting point in order to track velocity and position. I'm going to go work on removing the foot I shoved so far into my mouth earlier. --Steve Hmm, I think if you always know your starting position, vector and velocity, then you will always know where you are. (100% accuracy implied). Acceleration is just an adjustment to your current vector and velocity. -david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?
I don't agree with his email tone either and neither will he speed up release of the product. His email was rude and abusive, yes. But him an idiot, no. -david David Schlesinger wrote: He's not an idiot, he's just being bluntly vocal. Sorry, David, _I'm_ bluntly vocal, that was simply abusive. There's a difference, but I've never known either one to speed up a hardware platform project. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
embedded system research (was: Re: request for openmoko-devel list)
really off topic ... i'm looking for a full featured embedded system to install in my car and truck. i.e. run linux shell+gui onboard and have wifi + gsm network etc. any recommendations for products, or pitfalls of some products for this? thank you, david ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: BTW could be the protocolls propritary and with the need to pay licence fees? Re: BT Vehicle Profiles
Some devices don't answer as expected :) Scott ~ # hcitool scan Scanning ... 08:00:28:F3:E1:82 David Ford Scott ~ # sdptool browse 08:00:28:F3:E1:82 Browsing 08:00:28:F3:E1:82 ... Scott ~ # sdptool records 08:00:28:F3:E1:82 | grep Name Service Name: Audio Video Remote Control Profile Service Name: Voice Gateway Service Name: Voice Gateway Service Name: Serial Port Service Name: Dial-up Networking -david Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: Dnia wtorek, 23 stycznia 2007 18:46, Robert Michel napisał: But does maybe there any propritry protocolls out there which would costs licence fees? Maybe - we will see when we will get 'sdptool browse' output. BTW.. Duncan: please send full output of this command rather - I remind that some devices use misc names for services.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Idea: Desktop wakeup on user proximity
Actually this idea is already in use. Set up your Bluetooth to lock/unlock your desktop when you are in the vicinity of it etc. :) Richard Franks wrote: So when I walk into my office in the morning my computer wakes the monitor and logs in, opens up a browser with slashdot, etc. So when I walk towards my house at night, my computer is already cuing up some music for me. Detection could be via GPS/data connection, but in many workplaces, bluetooth detection could be sufficient, plus your Neo only needs to start up bluetooth when it already knows that it is close to an activation spot. Richard ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GNU discussion (was re:Free your phone)
I believe we already saw Sean's reply to you and he said GNU would be credited in the documentation. -david p.s. the more people blabber about GNU, the more I try to remove it from my system and support non-GNU replacements. this is called the point of where proselytizing is no longer informing people, it's annoying them [insert vibrant verbs as desired] and pushing them away. it also harms the FSF. consider all the bad press that happens as a side effect when you evangelize GNU. Dave Crossland wrote: On 22/01/07, MR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just joined the mailing list but if the point of this thread is about whether the manual/box/website for openmoko should refer to it using Linux or GNU/Linux then I am 100% whole heartedly behind GNU/Linux. That's originally what this thead was about, yes. It's not clear which term FIC will adopt for their release at this point. But they did say that they will promote OpenMoko more than anything else as the name for the system, probably for the reasons you cited :-) If there were the possibility of replacing the kernel with say a cut down bsd kernel (just an example) but keeping all the GNU tools There is this possibility: http://www.gnusolaris.org and http://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/ :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GNU discussion (was re:Free your phone)
Most sales droids I know wouldn't even have a clue about either GNU or Linux :-D -david Andreas Kostyrka wrote: * Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070122 21:37]: That also wouldn't be accurate. The droid, refering to wikipedia-stable, might instead say: So, it's something _different_ than Linux? Well, not really. GNU/Linux is the whole system; Linux is one part of the system, and it is a very important part, but it often gets misunderstood as the whole system. If you refer to the whole system, please call it GNU/Linux. You've got a quite optimistic view when it comes to sales droids ;) Andreas ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
If it was a windows based phone like my company phone (cingular [htc] 2125 and 8125), you'd be threatening to smash it with a baseball bat 17 times a day. Also known as the best ever possible reason why ANY other operating system is a better choice. -david Richard Bennett wrote: On Tuesday 23 January 2007 00:30, Gervais Mulongoy wrote: The best part is that neither carrier will be able to stop me from writing warez for this phone and all future OpenMokos. You're lucky it isn't a Windows mobile phone, or you'd have your phones and email tapped by the FBI if you posted that on the manufacturer's website ;o) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: exchange email?
Personally I don't think we need to invent a new term for existing technology. You still call your computer a computer even though it's no longer based on an 8088 CPU. I think far too many people spend far too much time making new names and reinventing wheels rather than just making the current wheel better. :) -david Redvers Davies wrote: On Sun, 2007-01-21 at 11:51 -0500, Dean Collins wrote: Hmmm well I'm not an expert so whatever you say however from my understanding it is the server that notifies the handset that there is email available for it not the handset polling the server. Thinking laterally, since handsets are NAT'd to the outside world it is impossible[0] for external mail-servers to notify the handset by making an incoming connection. The session has to be active the whole time and initiated by the client. How about, instead of calling it push-email we refer to it as near-real-time. At least it's more accurate. I have some ideas as to how this can be achieved without modifying the mail client. I don't want to elaborate until I know for sure which mail client will be the default. Regards, Red [0] For the value of impossible where we don't have access to the cell companies network configuration. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
mixed with a larger collection of softwares. GNU/Linux brings too much focus to GNU only and blatantly ignores the larger contributions of other persons and groups. This argument can and will live on and neither side is going to win. GNU will narrow-mindedly keep pushing their blind superiority, and much of the community will keep telling them to stop being so selfish for the limelight and stand abreast with every other contributor who deserve just as much credit. -david [1] Just like Band-aid, Jell-o, Koolaid, Styrofoam etc, have been abused, the term Linux has been used to define not just the kernel but the entire collection of software so much that it is commonly accepted correct to refer to such as Linux (which will always be contested by the Olde Guard). Corey wrote: On Saturday 20 January 2007 15:48, David Ford wrote: OpenMoko FIC/GNU/Linus/Alan Cox/X11/Xorg/GTK/... Linux. Oh, and who is the principal for the plastic and silicon? How about the makers of the editors you use to create all this code and give credit to the companies that supplied the monitors, cpus, and keyboards? Let's just call it EverythingAndTheKitchenSink/Linux, and be done with it. Your attempt towards exaggeration has possibly led you away from the point. You use X11/Linux and Xorg/Linux as an example, well let's see: those are both names of a specific piece of userland software. You don't see anyone suggesting Bash/Linux or Grep/Linux, however. GNU is not merely a single piece of software, you seem to not understand that. GNU is a system, a collection of extremely rudimentary/fundamental pieces of _critical_ software that are used to compile, bootstrap and enable an actual functioning operating system from which even higher layers of software can then be built and ran. ( the GNU system also happens to include some other higher-layer components, such as gtk, gnome, and so on ) Xorg, GTK, etc, etc, do _not_ provide the following components: linker compiler debugger parser generator posix library assembler shell auto-builder core utilities etc, etc, ... I'm sure I missed some other important ones. The purpose in the GNU/Linux qualifier, is to explicitly state that the system being referred to is an operating environment which is largely built-from/depends-on the GNU toolchain and includes the linux kernel. Any particular extra software configuration on top of that is identified through the specific name of the distribution, i.e. Debian, Gentoo, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, OpenMoko, etc, etc, Now, if GNU/Linux - under those certain constrained instances where it is a more accurate description - is still unnecessary in your mind, then fine - but at least realize that your counter-arguments have entirely missed the mark as far as relevance to the underlying point goes: you seem to indicate that you don't like the idea of GNU/Linux primarily because it brings too much undue focus upon one simple piece of software amongst many; however GNU, as I hope you can clearly see now, is not some trivial, random single piece of userland - quite the contrary it is the _very_means_ by which most linux-based os's are built. Personally, I never actually use the GNU/Linux identifier - but I can understand the logic and reasoning behind it, and it certainly doesn't bother me when other people use it. At any rate, it looks better written out, than how it sounds verbally. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: exchange email?
Microsoft push email isn't push at all. If you read the specifications, it's just another method of polling a server to determine if and what segments of new content is ready for transfer. Just like ETRN, POP3, and IMAP, none of it requires human intervention and all of it can poll for new content. There is nothing new about it logically. It's simply Microsoft catching up with functionality and marketing a new label to try and draw attention to new fancy technology with exchange. POP3 and IMAP have had this functionality for a long time. They just don't use HTTP to handle it. :) -david Dean Collins wrote: Yep, having just bought a Cingular 8525 (or HTC Hermes or HTC Tytyn or any of the other names it comes out as) I cant tell you how cool Microsoft Push Email is. I resisted for a long time upgrading from a treo 600 but once this feature was made available as a part of Exchange SP2 the new purchase was a done deal. Way cooler than any pop3 download application I’ve used before. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]+1-212-203-4357 Ph +1-917-207-3420 Mb +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
And what are the GNU free distributions to be called? If you cut yourself, do you get a bandaid or medically sterile adsorbent pad attached to an affixable length of flexible material? Band-aid may be trademarked and copyrighted, but that's still what everyone calls such items and there whatever confusion there is .. doesn't really matter to most people. :) -david p.s. it's religious and for every one that feels GNU should be the sole title bearer, there is another that feels they should not. Rok Ruzic wrote: There is a clear distinction between the meanings of the two terms. Linux is just the kernel, while GNU/Linux is the OS, meaning kernel, tools, libraries etc. If you use the term Linux for both, then you have ambiguity and can cause confusion. Nothing religious here, just the practical need to avoid ambuguity. Kindly, Rox ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: exchange email?
The term Push email comes from a client signing on to the server and issuing a look for ... instruction to the server. Also known as idling or long-delay poll. The logic of it is to have the client only issue new look for ... instructions when those instructions change, and until the client disconnects, the server should send i have new ... responses whenever it figures out there is new mail. Following that, the client says gimme and all are happy. The only problem with this is NAT traversal where a busy firewall ages the oldest idle connections. To combat this, developers make the client issue look for ... rather frequently if such behavior is discovered. Some developers however just play the safe route and always issue the look for ... instructions periodically. In effect, the logic of this isn't really changed from the original design. It's just done a bit differently. Some of it is really just the marketing aspect. Aunt Millie doesn't grok the protocol. She just sees the new feature! printed boldly on a high priced M$ product box :) The only truth in advertising, is that there is rarely truth in advertising. -david David Schlesinger wrote: Microsoft push email isn't push at all. If you read the specifications, it's just another method of polling a server to determine if and what segments of new content is ready for transfer. I think this is true for the Outlook Web Access interface which, for instance, Evolution (and Pocket Outlook on Windows Mobile 5!) use. There's some sort of back-end interface which Outlook 2003 and Entourage can take advantage of with an Outlook Server; I'm not sure whether whatever they do there qualifies as true push email or not... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: exchange email?
All servers using current methods are notifying the client that new content is available using current protocols. The server can't know where the client is until the client pipes up and says i'm over here at 10.0.0.5 nor can they know what is new content unless the client tells them what they don't have. The client is the one that establishes the initial connection to the server. The closest logical analogy to push email is SMTP where a remote server connects to your server and says I have something new for you, here, take it. There is no negotiation of what is new because the remote server decides it's new. Another analogy is getting a text message on a pager. But back to POP3/IMAP, the client connects and issues a find new since . They then exchange the content. Newer clients use the IDLE type of commands whereby the client stays connected but just sits there until the server pipes up and sends it a you've got mail! message. And then they exchange content and the client goes back to just sitting there. Older clients will connect and every X minutes ask for new mail and disconnect. That's the commonly known poll method. New clients stay connected and generally just sleep in between server messages - including this Push Email thing from microsoft. It still isn't pushed email any more than the protocols that already exist. :) It's just another example of taking the product out of the another box, making a new plastic form to position things in, putting it in a new shiny microsoft certified box and selling it as innovation. It gives fanboys something to spend their money on for what already exists for free; just a new marketing name for it and it gives techies their dose of innovation humor. -david Dean Collins wrote: Microsoft push email isn't push at all. If you read the specifications, it's just another method of polling a server to determine if and what segments of new content is ready for transfer. Hmmm well I'm not an expert so whatever you say however from my understanding it is the server that notifies the handset that there is email available for it not the handset polling the server. In my definition .that's push email (also does it for contact/tasks etc changes as well). Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +1-917-207-3420 Mb +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Ford Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2007 10:51 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: exchange email? Microsoft push email isn't push at all. If you read the specifications, it's just another method of polling a server to determine if and what segments of new content is ready for transfer Just like ETRN, POP3, and IMAP, none of it requires human intervention and all of it can poll for new content. There is nothing new about it logically. It's simply Microsoft catching up with functionality and marketing a new label to try and draw attention to new fancy technology with exchange. POP3 and IMAP have had this functionality for a long time. They just don't use HTTP to handle it. :) -david Dean Collins wrote: Yep, having just bought a Cingular 8525 (or HTC Hermes or HTC Tytyn or any of the other names it comes out as) I cant tell you how cool Microsoft Push Email is. I resisted for a long time upgrading from a treo 600 but once this feature was made available as a part of Exchange SP2 the new purchase was a done deal. Way cooler than any pop3 download application I've used before. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]+1-212-203-4357 Ph +1-917-207-3420 Mb +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
No more comments to the list on this. I've already covered your below response. -david Renaissance Man wrote: That might be the case if those who oppose the use of GNU actually had a rational case. The fact is they just don't; it's mostly just an emotional reaction from what I can see. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
I don't believe that one must always forgo open source toys to earn money. In my opinion, customer service is by far the most important element of making a lot of money. Make happy customers with whatever your product is and it's viral. Your product doesn't have to be the cure that saves us all from cancer. It just needs to be something we want or need. Customer service however is how companies live or die. :) From what I have seen since this project came about, customer service is a big element as is the product itself. I think Sean will make money and make us happy as well. -david Milan Votava wrote: It would be nice to know if Sean's aim is 1. to satisfy his and our need for open source toys like Neo or 2. to earn money like almost everybody on this planet while exploiting geeks like us to achieve his goal :-) I bet the second will prove as true... Milan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
Please take this off the list :) You and I disagree about whether they are pushing their name more than pushing free software. You and I are not going to agree on this, nor will others. Free software existed before GNU, it will exist after GNU. To be honest, it was Linux that catapulted free software such as GNU software into the limelight. No more replies about this on the list please. This is for everyone on both sides of the fence including me. -david Renaissance Man wrote: On 21 Jan 2007, at 9:54 pm, David Schlesinger wrote: Both my girlfriend and father are aware of Free Software and what it means. This is due to me coming across the FSF out of curiosity about GNU, and then passing that knowledge onto them. That's nice. The point is these people are certainly not geeks, so it's certainly incorrect to assume that only geeks know about Free Software and the benefits of supporting it. Runs free software doesn't appear on the checklist of features that the average person is looking for or cares about. That's unlikely to change. Yes, very unlikely to change when people successfully oppose efforts to increase awareness of it through projects like OpenMoko. I never said they were incapable, just that they _don't_. If people factored freedom into their general buying decisions, Western nations wouldn't be running the kind of trade deficits with China that they currently do... I agree that market economics creates such externalities, but just because market economics has such defects doesn't mean that they can't be mitigated by agendas like that of the FSF. Buy Local campaigns, for instance, have been shown in many countries to mitigate problems like the one you mention. Out of interest can you define your use of political agenda? In this instance, an agenda based on one party's apparent dissatisfaction with not getting the credit they assert they deserve, and which has nothing to do with software development or any piece of software's being more or less free. Okay. Well I guess this is the fundamental difference between the way you and I look at this issue. You think the FSF and supporters are pushing an agenda simply to get more credit for their efforts. I, and others, on the other hand, think the FSF and supporters are pushing an agenda to promote Free Software. Renaissance Man ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Your Phone
That's called rhetorical questions. Those are GNU's opinions which are obviously and adamantly not shared. -I- think it's entirely silly. Xorg is as much not a component as GNU is. If gnusense is GNU/Linux based on Ubuntu, then why have they stripped Ubuntu from the name? That's entirely hypocritical. -david Dave Crossland wrote: The FAQ for your particular question is at http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#many http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html explains why this is not silly, in depth. I'm sorry if I've come across as making a silly suggestion - I am being very earnest here. I am not suggesting to call the system by my favourite component. While the X Windowing System, GTK, and the Linux kernel are components, GNU is not a component. If the Free Software Foundation wants to call something GNU/Linux that badly, let 'em put together their own distribution and call it whatever they like. www.gnewsense.org is FSF sponsored, and removes all proprietary software from the Ubuntu GNU/Linux distribution. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
