Re: [CTRL] Classic
-Caveat Lector- On Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:45:07 EDT, Tito Hammond [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted article [EMAIL PROTECTED], which said: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 7/1/01 1:01:39 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I believe it, but what would happen if we moved to abolish the government? Martial law. Tienneman Square. The Holocaust. We don't need to abolish government, just hold it to the Constitution, especially the tenth amendment. Oh? And how do you suppose we do that? Apparently whatever we're doing is not working. Rights are still eroding all the time. There are victories, like the recent ruling saying that cops can't fly over your house to peek inside your home with high tech gear to see if you've got lots of grow lights on in your house. I don't need to remind you of the boiling frog analogy. The point is, we're all aware of what's happening, but the average Joe Blow is not. Joe Blow is going to recline in his lazy boy with a beer in one hand and his sausage in the other until one day he wakes up and realizes that it's too late. Then there will be an overthrow of the government. Thankyou for posting this Prudy. It's obvious that most Americans no longer believe in, or are even familiar with, these principles. The public schools (government indoctrination centers) and the mass media have done a thorough job of erasing these beliefs from the public mind. There is a story about old Ben Franklin emerging from the Constitutional Convention after the signing. A woman called out to him: What form of government have you given us? He answered: A Republicif you can keep it. We haven't. It's gone. Question is...what comes next? What is the segue going to be? I wonder if we're heading to a time of a major abolishment of the few remaining freedoms we have. I'm thinking we are. I'm thinking the very same thing. It's one of those rock bottom things, kind of like alcoholics having to hit rock bottom before they can see the light and turn things around. Probably society will have to hit rock bottom before the cat is cornered and it starts hissing and fighting. It's just a matter of compromises. There is a power in place that wants more and more control, so lawyers battle it out in court and a compromise takes place. Later there is another compromise as someone, somewhere wants more control, so we compromise again, each time giving up a little more freedom. Somehow, we need to turn that compromising around and head it in the opposite direction. How you do that I don't know. I tend to doubt that it can be turned. Perhaps the only way to regain our Republic is to do it the way the founding fathers did it ... maybe that's why this government is hell bent on abolishing weapons for common people. Abolishing all the current people in office might do the trick. Send in some people to take over. Of course, conspiring to do this is illegal... but that's not going to stop it, of course. But it's governments like the one currently in place that seems to eventually result in beheadings. The sad part is that there is little I can do about it by myself. There is little we can do, even collectively, as members of this mailing list because we're really not mainstreamers. Mainstreamers are so strapped for cash that mom and dad have to work, the kids are in daycare and everyone is so exhausted by the time they come home that all they can manage to do is plop down in front of the TV to absorb a few hours of propaganda before falling asleep and repeating the same thing until the weekend when some of the people get drunk, some of the people have sex and the rest just lay around and recuperate from the hell of the weekdays. I'm one of those mainstreamers you are talking about. I joined this list because a friend of mine signed off after being here four years. He posted many interesting articles from this list at work and got a couple dozen of us interested in politics. He didn't have any answers, nor did he find any one complete answer on this list, but he did get many people (at work) interested. After being here a couple of weeks now, I can see why he got so frustrated. Obviously all the thirty or so people on this list care about what is happening in this country and to the world, but even these thirty people can't seem to be unified in their thinking, so how do you get tens of millions of people to unify against the government/powerful corporations? I don't know why nobody can agree on a single approach. I think that's one of the things the powers in place know. Each person is unique, yes... but at the root of the issue is the need for change. I think eventually, once the work becomes more and more thinking oriented rather than labor oriented, people might become more willing to sacrifice their knowledge and understanding rather than demanding payment for it. I know I
Re: [CTRL] Classic
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 7/1/01 1:01:39 AM Mountain Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I believe it, but what would happen if we moved to abolish the government? Martial law. Tienneman Square. The Holocaust. We don't need to abolish government, just hold it to the Constitution, especially the tenth amendment. Thankyou for posting this Prudy. It's obvious that most Americans no longer believe in, or are even familiar with, these principles. The public schools (government indoctrination centers) and the mass media have done a thorough job of erasing these beliefs from the public mind. There is a story about old Ben Franklin emerging from the Constitutional Convention after the signing. A woman called out to him: What form of government have you given us? He answered: A Republicif you can keep it. We haven't. It's gone. Question is...what comes next? What is the segue going to be? I wonder if we're heading to a time of a major abolishment of the few remaining freedoms we have. I'm thinking we are. I'm thinking the very same thing. It's one of those rock bottom things, kind of like alcoholics having to hit rock bottom before they can see the light and turn things around. Probably society will have to hit rock bottom before the cat is cornered and it starts hissing and fighting. It's just a matter of compromises. There is a power in place that wants more and more control, so lawyers battle it out in court and a compromise takes place. Later there is another compromise as someone, somewhere wants more control, so we compromise again, each time giving up a little more freedom. Somehow, we need to turn that compromising around and head it in the opposite direction. How you do that I don't know. I tend to doubt that it can be turned. Perhaps the only way to regain our Republic is to do it the way the founding fathers did it ... maybe that's why this government is hell bent on abolishing weapons for common people. The sad part is that there is little I can do about it by myself. There is little we can do, even collectively, as members of this mailing list because we're really not mainstreamers. Mainstreamers are so strapped for cash that mom and dad have to work, the kids are in daycare and everyone is so exhausted by the time they come home that all they can manage to do is plop down in front of the TV to absorb a few hours of propaganda before falling asleep and repeating the same thing until the weekend when some of the people get drunk, some of the people have sex and the rest just lay around and recuperate from the hell of the weekdays. I'm one of those mainstreamers you are talking about. I joined this list because a friend of mine signed off after being here four years. He posted many interesting articles from this list at work and got a couple dozen of us interested in politics. He didn't have any answers, nor did he find any one complete answer on this list, but he did get many people (at work) interested. After being here a couple of weeks now, I can see why he got so frustrated. Obviously all the thirty or so people on this list care about what is happening in this country and to the world, but even these thirty people can't seem to be unified in their thinking, so how do you get tens of millions of people to unify against the government/powerful corporations? There seems to be too much pettiness rather than serious discussion and no conclusions. Too much right-left, rich-poor, straight-gay, black-white-brown-etc, liberal-conservative, gun rights Vs gun confiscation, and a thousand other means of dividing people so they won't organize a united front and members of this list are just as susceptible to these same divisions. What are the answers? Tito A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To
Re: [CTRL] Classic
-Caveat Lector- On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:47:09 -0700, John Cone [EMAIL PROTECTED] posted article [EMAIL PROTECTED], which said: --- Prudence L. Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive to these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it. ... Do we believe that, still? I believe it, but what would happen if we moved to abolish the government? Martial law. Tienneman Square. The Holocaust. Thankyou for posting this Prudy. It's obvious that most Americans no longer believe in, or are even familiar with, these principles. The public schools (government indoctrination centers) and the mass media have done a thorough job of erasing these beliefs from the public mind. There is a story about old Ben Franklin emerging from the Constitutional Convention after the signing. A woman called out to him: What form of government have you given us? He answered: A Republicif you can keep it. We haven't. It's gone. Question is...what comes next? What is the segue going to be? I wonder if we're heading to a time of a major abolishment of the few remaining freedoms we have. I'm thinking we are. It's one of those rock bottom things, kind of like alcoholics having to hit rock bottom before they can see the light and turn things around. Probably society will have to hit rock bottom before the cat is cornered and it starts hissing and fighting. It's just a matter of compromises. There is a power in place that wants more and more control, so lawyers battle it out in court and a compromise takes place. Later there is another compromise as someone, somewhere wants more control, so we compromise again, each time giving up a little more freedom. The sad part is that there is little I can do about it by myself. There is little we can do, even collectively, as members of this mailing list because we're really not mainstreamers. Mainstreamers are so strapped for cash that mom and dad have to work, the kids are in daycare and everyone is so exhausted by the time they come home that all they can manage to do is plop down in front of the TV to absorb a few hours of propaganda before falling asleep and repeating the same thing until the weekend when some of the people get drunk, some of the people have sex and the rest just lay around and recuperate from the hell of the weekdays. Damaeus A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Classic
-Caveat Lector- --- Prudence L. Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive to these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it. ... Do we believe that, still? _ Thankyou for posting this Prudy. It's obvious that most Americans no longer believe in, or are even familiar with, these principles. The public schools (government indoctrination centers) and the mass media have done a thorough job of erasing these beliefs from the public mind. There is a story about old Ben Franklin emerging from the Constitutional Convention after the signing. A woman called out to him: What form of government have you given us? He answered: A Republicif you can keep it. We haven't. It's gone. Regards Nakano __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Classic
-Caveat Lector- Great Britain taxed the colonists at far lower rates than Americans tolerate today -- True, but it was a combination of WHAT was taxed, and HOW the taxes were collected that the colonists...especially those in Massachusetts colony, found 'intolerable' (an additional 'Intolerable Act' was the fact that King George disbanded the colonial parliaments and established his own appointees from England in the offices of colonial governors, which had previously been held by colonists)... Yet the colonists did rebel. It's hard to imagine, today, the faith and courage of a few hundred frozen musketmen, setting off across the darkened Delaware, gambling their lives and farms on the chance they could engage and defeat the greatest land army in the history of the known world, armed with only two palpable assets: one irreplaceable man to lead them, and some flimsy newspaper reprints of a parchment declaring: We hold these Truths to be self-evident, Well, as I pointed out in another post, the Declaration of Independence wasn't written until more than a year after hostilities had broken out at Lexington and Concord. And it was a hard sell...many colonists who strongly objected to King George's policies towards the American colonies and even understood and supported the fighting balked at making the final break from England...most colonists still considered themselves loyal subjects of England, even as they were firing upon the military forces of England. Today we refer to 'the English' when referring to whom we fought against in the Revolutionary War...but not one colonist thought that way at the time, because the term 'the English' meant the colonists too... The American Revolution was in fact our first civil war... The War for American Independence began over unregistered untaxed guns, To be precise, that was the spark that set off the powderkeg that had been simmering for a decade over many issues... when British forces attempted to seize arsenals of rifles, powder, and ball from the hands of ill-organized Patriot militias in Lexington and Concord. Where does the author get off calling the colonial militias 'ill-organized'; if the Lexington and Concord militias had been ill-organized, the 'lobsterbacks' (which was the derogatory term that American colonists used to describe the British troops) would have found the local militia in bed rather than finding them standing in formation on the town green... It could be argued that the American colonial militias were BETTER organized and BETTER trained than the British troops; granted, the British army was considered one of the best armies of its day, but it wazs trained in the strict rules of European warfare. The colonial militias, OTOH, were responsible for maintaining law, order, and the safety of their families on the frontier, especially from occasional attack by local Indians. They therefore trained regularly, and were extremely well organized. American civilians shot and killed scores of those government agents as they marched back to Boston. Are those Minutemen still our heroes? Or do we now consider them dangerous terrorists and depraved government-haters? There was no question at the time...the 'lobsterbacks' considered the rebel colonists as 'terrorists', and were quite put out that they did not 'fight correctly', meaning that the colonists waged what we have come to label 'guerrilla warfare', tactics they had learned from their Native American adversaries... The 'lobsterbacks' considered such fighting 'barbaric'...it just 'was not done'...and unfortunately afterwards the rebel colonial military leaders decided that rather than be thought 'barbaric', they would fight 'by the rules', which explains why 'we' didn't do so well after the initial 'victories' at Lexington/Concord, Bunker Hill, and Fort Ticonderoga... If we'd maintained such guerrilla tactics, the war would probably have ended in our favor much sooner... June === Alternative Kite Radio (basic) Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere) Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday) Check out Alternative Kite Radio at http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com === A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not
