CS: Pol-march in March
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Neil Francis writes, But if - say - 70% of the country find it distasteful - does it become reasonable to look at preventing that activity from being engaged in? This is a profoundly illiberal attitude, and a reminder of all the stuff we've heard about gun ownership in recent years. It is all the more alarming because it echoes the kind of crudely populist definition of "democracy" which one hears being mouthed by lots of people who should know better, such as the "great good" types on Any Questions the other day, who it seems would happily impose the most draconian restrictions on the Internet in order, they say, to catch paedophiles. Reminds one of the "war on drugs" and the frighteningly repressive (and expensive) measures taken by governments everywhere in order, they say, to save us from the bogeyman of drugs... The implication of suggesting that our democracy is based upon nothing more than a crude show of hands is that if 70 percent of those polled think shoplifters should be summarily crucified, then we should do it. What a delightfully civilised vision of society. The fact is that people have hunted since the dawn of humanity, it's the most natural thing in the world, and if individuals choose not to hunt - minnows or rhinos, it's all the same - that's their decision but they shouldn't try to coerce others into following their example. Liberty is the most precious thing there is, and one of the nastiest aspects of our time is the disturbing number of people who happily propose radical curtailments of others' freedom. I don't care if 99 percent of the population dislikes fox hunting - something I don't take part in - since the tyranny of a majority is no more acceptable than that of an individual despot. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Conservative Party
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The key to a prosperous economy lies in keeping taxes down and reducing regulation and setting free the creative and hard working British people to succeed in the world economy. Opportunity has to be spread to all. Britain must be an open society in which success is possible for every hard working person whoever they are and wherever they come from. Cripes! Starve the lizards! I nearly choked on the mouthful of South African Cabernet Sauvignon I was savouring when I read this bilge. Look, these clowns had eighteen years (!) to reduce taxation drastically, roll back the power of the State, stop interfering with the liberty of the individual, and devolve power (etc, etc) and what did we get? Vastly more regulation and high taxes, a huge diminution of individual liberty - not least through Thatcher's signing us up for Maastricht - and e.g. even more gun-control than we had already. And now these lying toads claim to be the ones to liberate us from Blair's burgeoning Orwellian tyranny! Blair and his grotesque henchman Prescott might be first to swing from a lamp-post, but Hague shouldn't be far behind... Anthony Harrison -- All I know is that Peter Mandelson is the best campaigner the Conservatives have had in the past ten years! I can't believe they keep wheeling out Anne Widdecombe, she's absolutely hopeless. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-one organisation
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I like Mathew Wright's plan for a united (and unifying) body. But I suspect one of the unstated difficulties in the shooting world, in addition to the chronic parochialism and dog-in-the-manger attitude of so many Brits, is that of social class. Take the CA - I've been to meetings, met CA types, and many of them are fine, but at bottom the driving force is clearly hunting. Now when I use this word privately I mean pursuing the creatures of the wild with rod, gun, or whatever, but in their book "hunting" means sitting on a horse and chasing a fox with hounds, and even this piffling matter of terminology holds lessons. Talk to them, use the word "hunting" in any sense but their own, and observe the bafflement followed by amused condescension: "Oh, you mean stalking/vermin control/rabbiting/big-game hunting, old boy!" Study the second-hand bookshelves and pick out the books entitled simply "Fishing" - open them, and you find they're not actually about fishing, they're specifically about fly-fishing for trout and salmon... No other type of angling is worthy of consideration. Trivial? Not in the long run: the refusal to emerge from the stifling chrysalis of class-conscious sporting tradition cripples most efforts to unite different branches of fieldsports and target shooting, because for many people the feeling that they are engaged in some elite, exclusive activity encased in an ancient web of arcane jargon and custom is the main reason they go "stalking" (odd word) or fly-fishing, or mole-wrenching, or whatever. A sadly similar phenomenon exists at the opposite end, as it were. How many people have told me of their experiences in air-rifle or smallbore shooting clubs, I wonder, when any reference to full-bore pistol or field-shooting has been met with slighting references to "cowboys" or "bloodthirsty killing" or some such pitiful garbage... It's difficult to avoid feeling that our society is just too decadent to save itself, when shooting enthusiasts of different complexions prefer to wither away in their own rapidly-shrinking circles rather than broaden their minds and unite in a common cause against the forces of totalitarian bureaucracy and suburban intolerance. BTW I read that a further effort to oust the BASC supremo is coming up. What do others think of John Wossname? He's always appeared to me like a typical CA type - certainly a good communicator, but because of his class, social background, schooling etc, he inherently (and fatally) believes that if one deals with the political establishment in the way that gentlemen have always dealt with one another, a decent compromise will emerge. And he lacks the streetfighting killer-instinct to galvanise his membership into kicking our political leaders in the groin - then stamping on their heads when they fall to the ground yelping. We're engaged in a struggle to preserve our way of life and our essential liberties. Trouble is, I suspect this is appreciated by too few people in the CA and the BASC. I'll be there on March 18th, but the date itself is a cowardly cop-out: it ought to be a day or two later, so our Peasants' Revolt can snarl up the Smoke good and proper... Anthony Harrison -- I think it's safe to say both BASC and the CA appreciate the situation we are in. The CA even have an ad on page 53 of the current edition of Target Sports pointing out the issue of shooting being progressively banned. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-arrested for brandishing brush
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The fact is that he didn't have a gun, he was armed with a brush, for God's sake. In such circumstances just how reasonable is it for the poor guy to be prosecuted for making a rhetorical threat to shoot some irritating teenagers? What if he'd said, "Go away and behave yourselves, or I'll tan your hide!" - ? Threat of violence, good reason to prosecute him? Or perfectly reasonable, rhetorical ticking-off? I'm afraid this is further evidence of upright members of society being hounded, because they're an easy target presumably, while the rowdies and ruffians who make so many people's lives a misery are left alone because the police, and the government, are too scared/indifferent/incompetent to do anything about them. Reminds us of travellers' encampments, ethnic minority estates in London, etc, which are "no-go" areas to the police. Anthony Harrison -- It's illegal, using an imitation firearm to threaten people. If they'd been attacking him, fair enough, but what he did was against the law and the fact that he got a relatively small fine indicates sympathy on the part of the judge. Would you threaten to shoot kids who were trying to steal a car? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-foxes
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EJ Totty writes, the foxes I knew when I was a kid, were a lot bigger than the cats we had. Correct me if I'm wrong EJ, but I suspect you're referring to the grey (sorry, gray) fox, which is significantly bigger than our red fox. I know you have the red ones too, but they were imported by all those ex-English country gentlemen who ran your country in its early years, so they could keep on hunting! I believe the red fox is generally to be found east of the Mississippi, and in your home turf of WA maybe you only have the grays...? When I hunted in Ontario my only regret was I never saw any foxes or coyotes - or wolves, come to that, and I know there were a few resident wolves on some of the places I went. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Caretaker etc
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chris Gould's reminiscences of handling CCF weaponry at school remind me of my own similar experience of the more rational attitude to firearms in the 1960s. We would collect our No.4s and the Bren from the Cadet Hut where they were chained up, march down to the playing fields, and perform routine fieldwork exercises, all in full view of the main road. Naturally it didn't occur to anyone that this could possibly cause disquiet, and of course there was simply never any adverse comment. On our way to summer camp at Aldershot one year, we marched to Reading railway station carrying our No.4s slung, again without attracting more than casual (and friendly) glances - the contrary would have surprised us. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Foxes
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jonathan writes, I'm sure that foxes can and do eat pussy cats, but probably not very often, not least because a big pussy can weigh the same as a fox - which are rather slender, delicately built creatures under all that fur. Reminds me of a friend who often amuses us with his tale of shooting a damn great fox while lamping, only to discover he'd blasted a particularly enormous ginger domestic cat, which had to be discreetly disposed of! Years ago I was interested to see a natural history programme on TV showing nocturnal film of urban foxes, which included a confrontation between a fox and a cat: the latter arched its back, fluffed up its tail and spat viciously, causing the fox to retreat promptly. Foxes are impressively omnivorous. I've watched one at night crawling on its belly across wet grass, gobbling worms; seasonally I find scats that are full of the shiny purple wing-casings of certain beetles; and they are known to eat fruit as well. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Widdecombe
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] As the Liberty (who they?) spokeswoman pointed out, Widdecombe has said nothing new on self defence, merely done the usual political snow-job. This is par for the course, for political "debate" between NuLab and the Tories, because they have a cynical scam going whereby they pretend to be divided by an ideological gulf that simply does not exist. They don't argue about principles - most of them wouldn't recognise a principle if one bit them on the arse - but about a few percentage points here and there. I trust we have not forgotten the shameful and disgusting way in which they competed, in the run-up to the '97 Election, to see which party could appear superficially more macho on "gun control". Alas for anyone who would like to see some credible opposition to the Blair regime, Widdecombe appeared to go down very well with the Tory rank file at their conference, with her grotesque performance over drugs. So much for the Tories. It really is going to be depressing, come the next Election, and I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that I shall probably not vote for anyone. It seems the only principled thing to do. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Falklands and so on
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peter Kokalis related a particularly gruesome account of the use of the Vulcan in his review of Dillon's minigun improvements in SOF, Er, Jonathan S was referring to the Avro Vulcan bomber, Steve, not the multi-barrel cannon... I too understood that the Vulcan raid on Port Stanley was actually a failure in terms of airfield destruction, though it does seem to have been a propaganda victory, launched as it was from Ascension Island about 8000 miles away; standard bomb-aiming practice was to straddle the runway diagonally to maximise the hit probability and that was achieved, though even with 20-plus thousand pounders hitting the field, the Argentinians were not inconvenienced for long. Think I saw aerial photos some time ago - great navigation, great bomb-aiming. When I was a boy I was allowed to enter the cockpit of a Vulcan, and a Victor - very cramped for such big planes. BTW is SOF worth reading? I'd assumed it was a bit creepy, just fantasy blood 'n' guts stuff for wannabe Rambos, but perhaps there is more to it than that? I suppose you get it mail-order? Lastly, in reply to another post re. the Falklands, the ship in question was the Sheffield which wa destroyed by an Etendard-launched Exocet, and this story about its radar being turned off was widespread, though I don't know the truth of it. Anthony Harrison -- Sorry, endless confusion sets in when reading 200 email messages a day. I was thinking of the C130s with the miniguns mounted in them. Soldier of Fortune does have a lot of crap in it, frankly, but it's confined mostly to the editorial section. Some of the articles are very good. Like I said before the article on the raid in Sierra Leone was superb. Personally I think if they renamed it something like, oh, "Time" and put in a load of gibberish about how wonderful Gore is in the editorial pages it would have won more Pulitzers than Time, USNWR, and Newsweek all put together. The stuff in there about East Timor, PNG, the Philippines and so on is just amazing to be frank, the reporters are mostly ex-soldiers who don't mind risking their necks to get the stories. A lot of them have been killed over the years. A lot of the reporters are also ex-CIA types as well who can actually construct a sentence unlike the empty headed journalists who believe everything they're fed in press briefings. There was a series of articles on Colombia recently which told me more about the situation there than anything else I'd ever read. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-us and them
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I hope, IG, that you consider criminal evidence with more care than you do some of the postings to this list! 1. Our US friend didn't try to "impose his values" on this country, he merely drew a useful comparison between the rights of Americans and those of Englishmen. In any case, our two nations' values in terms of free citizens' right to possess arms, as enshrined in the US Constitution and our own Bill of Rights, are peas from the same pod. 2. He doesn't tell us that firearms are only good for self-defence: he makes the valid point that that is their most important purpose, ultimately, and that guns' capacity to protect one's life liberty is a stronger debating point than their recreational role. 3. We do not slavishly applaud or emulate everything that comes from America - this is pure fantasy on your part. But since America is a more violent society, in both absolute and relative terms, than our own (with the usual caveats about it depending very much where in America you live), and guns and gun-control play a significant part in this, we naturally look to America for instructive examples of citizens using guns for self-defence, and of the folly of most attempts at gun-control. 4. In referring to people's desire for personal security in some of our rougher areas I wasn't suggesting only firearms, but thinking of the pepper sprays and other forms of defence which had been mentioned. Our US friend did well to remind us, for example, of our supremely daft laws concerning knives: in an article I wrote on knives for countryside use, I felt obliged to include a brief summary of the restrictions which apply, such as the typically arbitrary blade-length thing and the nasty little catch concerning lock-blades. I very much dislike the idea of getting into a knife-fight with anyone, and would much prefer a baton or some such, but my point is that our rulers have this mad compulsion to regulate, control, oppress and punish innocent people - possibly an urge which you share - when all they want to do is carry a bloody pocket knife, for God's sake. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Steven Waldorf case
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Though this has cropped up before on the list, the death of the trial judge, Sir David Croom-Johnson, produced an interesting obituary in the Telegraph. Extract: ...Waldorf had been a passenger in a mini travelling along a street in Earl's Court when he was mistaken by the defendants, two detectives from Scotland Yard, for a dangerous fugitive. (They) had opened fire, intending as they later admitted, to kill him. As Waldorf lay wounded, one of the constables struck him across the head. He almost died from his wounds. Although it transpired during the case that the man for whom the detectives had mistaken Steven Waldorf had never previously attacked them, Croom-Johnson said in his summing-up: "Supposing one is threatened, you do not have to wait to be struck. If the circumstances are justified, you can get your blow in first to prevent attack." He instructed the jury to put aside their "great sympathy" for Steven Waldorf, and reminded them that just because an innocent man had been shot, that did not mean a crime had been committed and that someone had to pay. The jury found the detectives not guilty. Croom-Johnson is described as a courteous, quietly-spoken man, one who commanded minesweepers in WW2 as a Reserve officer, being awarded the DSC after notable work in front of the D-Day beaches. I actually think there is something to be said for his summing-up: accidents do happen, and despite our horror at the thought of an innocent man's being shot and beaten up by the police, I don't necessarily blame the detectives, rash and impetuous though they might seem. What interests me particularly here are the judge's words about getting your blow in first, which seem significant in relation to self defence, and to contradict what I thought was the serious handicap (if faced with the prospect of criminal assault) of not being allowed by the law to take pre-emptive action. Any parallel with the Tony Martin case here? Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-.458
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am concerned that our friend in blue, IG, is becoming slightly jumpy. I didn't imply, old chum, that 458 Win Mag (picky!) is a viable self-defence round - unless it was for shooting a burglar's getaway vehicle, 'cos I dare say it would penetrate an engine block - I just threw a "gunny" reference into my posting to lighten things up a bit! And before you suggest I'm a "gun nut" who talks of nothing else, our pub conversation also covered the Le Mans 24 Hours, building house extensions, and the merits of emigration... Get some WPC to bring you a nice mug of cocoa, have a lie-down, and stop imagining things! Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-drugs
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also this argument about only weak-minded people is utter crap as well, anyone can become a drug addict Come on, Steve, you're in danger of getting a little personal here! There is such a thing as the "addictive personality", identified a long time ago, and it's simply not true to say that "anyone" can become addicted to hard drugs. Especially from what you say, with the West Midlands apparently awash with illegal substances, heroin seems no more difficult to obtain than alcohol - but are most people taking advantage of its availability? Of course not. And I emphasise that I am not just saying complacently that I and my family, and the people I know, are just "too bright" to go in for this sort of destructive indulgence: for example, the use of hard drugs among some otherwise bright musicians is a long-established phenomenon, cf one of the all-time jazz greats, Charlie Parker. I know nothing of Walsall, and freely admit I am happy to live in the rural South West well away from the urban horrors you describe. But I still say that the deliberate use of damagingly addictive substances is characteristic of a certain type of person - and in a free society we should let them get on with the business of destroying themselves, interfering only if their habit threatens us directly. Many observers comment that drug crime is caused largely by the illegality and consequent high price of drugs: remove the crooks from the equation and druggies should no longer get sucked into committing crimes to feed their habit. I agree it must be nasty to live alongside the drug culture, but it's a problem which is exacerbated by oppressive, puritanical laws, and by government taking advantage of druggies as a "client population" to facilitate their grabbing more and more sweeping powers to do things to the rest of us. I don't know what you think of as a "large and growing" proportion of the population, but perhaps it's a proportion whose self-destruction would not greatly distress the rest of us. Last night I enjoyed a couple of pints with a chum of mine, discussing such things as shooting the Winchester 458 Magnum; I don't feel tempted to start mainlining vodka... Right now I'm ingesting my first "hit" of caffeine for the day... Anthony Harrison -- I personally think this theory of "addictive personalities" is the same as the Nazis calling the Jews genetically inferior. If only weak-minded people with addictive personalities can get addicted to heroin, then they constitute a large proportion of the population, so it is academic to argue what characteristics they have. How do you know you don't have an "addictive personality"? Your wife? Your kids? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Emperor's New Clothes
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If there were no firearms controls, then this individual would have been able to continue to possess firearms without fear of any sanctions being applied! He would still be here. As Steve points out, IG, this fellow held firearms for 20 years or so anyway. Let's think again of your favourite country, the USA: undoubtedly lots of creepy people own guns there, but in that country as in ours, the vast majority of citizens are decent and not inclined to criminal violence. It is observable in the USA that those parts in which gun ownership is hassle-free and widespread among ordinary folk are the most crime-free; the places which restrict guns, especially handguns, such as certain big cities, are much more dangerous, because the criminals have guns anyway without regard to the law, while ordinary citizens are disarmed. So the answer to your question is yes, I'd be "happy" for this guy to own guns, if I was secure in the knowledge that he was hugely outnumbered by ordinary - but armed - citizens, a situation that used to obtain in this country pre-WW1 but which is now reversed, since while it appears easy for thugs to buy an off-ticket machine gun the rest of us are approaching complete disarmament. I'm puzzled by your reference to the Emperor's New Clothes, but it's a model which applies very neatly to "gun control" by government: "Look!" they say, "You're all safe, because we severely restrict lawful ownership of guns, and make gun-owners jump through all these hoops! Gun crime is rare here - not like that nasty place across the Atlantic. Our wonderful, largely unarmed policemen will protect you, so don't go trying to do it yourselves..." But if I am subjected to a criminal assault, IG, you can't protect me, and neither can Adrian, the bobby down the road, nor Peter, the police inspector who's a Governor of my son's school, because you/they almost certainly won't be present. Even if I were trained in karate or some such (yawn...) or happened to be carrying a defensive weapon (that's "offensive weapon" in police-speak) if the criminal had a gun I wouldn't stand a chance. So our rulers' pretence is a sham, a scam, a grossly dishonest trick, carried on by bullying, flummery and emotional blackmail, and aided abetted by the news media and the police. Talk about the Emperor's New Clothes... And BTW your snide response to our American correspondent who emphasised his freedom to carry defensive weapons was out of place: many people whose business takes them to our inner cities would be glad to be able to defend themselves against criminals emboldened by the anti-gun policies of our rulers, instead of feeling intimidated and powerless. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-drugs
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] any drug that has seriously harmful effects and is addictive should be banned I know it's tempting to agree with this, but the history of governments banning things (including guns...) is a very sorry one. Reason invariably flies out of the window, the rules are arbitrary, there is a massive growth of bureaucracy and a parallel diminution of civil rights. To call for something to be banned is to say either "I disapprove of this even if it has no direct effect on my liberty and I don't think others should be allowed to make up their own minds," or "I think a bunch of politicians and civil servants should have the power to decide what I can eat, drink, smoke or sniff." Banning things creates all manner of dangerous precedents - as shooters, of all people, should know. Like gun-control, the "war on drugs" is a massive scam perpetrated on the citizens by duplicitous governments, to whom it gives greater freedom to tax us, spy on us, and interfere with our liberty. Alcohol meets your definition of a potentially dangerous, habituating drug, Steve - but the great majority of us don't let that glass of sherry at the vicarage tea-party lead subsequently to our sitting under a railway arch swigging methylated spirits. If a few weak-minded people want to destroy themselves with heroin or whatever, let them - they won't last long. It's just Mother Nature's way of culling the bozos. Anthony Harrison -- I knew someone was going to say "Oh yes, Steve, but that includes booze and fags as well." No it doesn't. Also this argument about only weak-minded people is utter crap as well, anyone can become a drug addict I've seen it with my own eyes. I have to say quite frankly that people who say things like that obviously have little or no experience with drug addicts. I've seen blokes who are obviously very bright who can defeat every car security system known to man in seconds, but instead of using their intelligence to get a real job they are addicted to heroin so they steal cars and live from day to day. If it only affected people because of some genetic reason then it would affect all age groups equally, it doesn't, it affects young people to a far, far greater degree, certainly in Walsall at any rate. People do not sell every possession they have, live in poverty and commit burglaries every day when they have a drinking or smoking addiction. And it's not because they started out living in poverty either, most of them don't in my experience. And it's not because drugs are artificially expensive because they're banned either, heroin is quite inexpensive, but when you are addicted to it you can barely function as a human being so you can't make much money. I've seen this "Oh, it could never happen to me, I'm far too bright (or my kids are)" and then they find out their daughter uses smack every day or they get addicted to it themselves. Wake up everyone, there is a large and growing proportion of the population going down the tubes because of heroin. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Recommended reading
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kenneth, an excellent list, most of which I have not read but ought to sometime. You mention John Masters's "Bugles And A Tiger", eminently readable autobiography by a man who changed his life post-war, left the regular army, and became a novelist living in the USA. Allow me to recommend the next volume, which continues his military story into and through WW2: "The Road Past Mandalay", equally readable. If anyone can provide a copy of the third and last of his trilogy I would be very grateful: it's "Pilgrim Son: A Personal Odyssey" (Michael Joseph 1971). I've tried and failed to get a copy of the McBride book, ditto another volume you don't mention, "With British Snipers To The Third Reich" by Capt. C.Shore. Two volumes of WW2 fighter pilot stuff were written long after the period by P.B."Laddie" Lucas - reputed to be good, and I want them! My only quibble is that you say O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin novels "rival" Hornblower, but in all honesty Kenneth they outstrip C.S.Forester in every way, tremendously impressive stories of the Napoleonic period. Thanks for the list. Anthony Harrison -- I've mentioned this before, but a really good book is "Marine Sniper" by Charles Henderson, and it's still in print and you can still get it easily! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Recommended movies
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeff, "Handgun" is an odd film - in colour BTW, not black white - because it was made by a Brit director whose name (infuriatingly) escapes me but who is distinctly on the "respectable liberal art-film" side of the fence as opposed to mass-market Hollywood. It is suggested that it was intended or thought to be an attack on US "gun culture", but because any such message is difficult to discern it has always proved amusingly difficult for lefty film reviewers in The Guardian and elsewhere to categorise! Not a bad film I think, though not wildly entertaining. Anthony Harrison -- Well, my mother saw it one night and insisted that I take her pistol shooting at the first opportunity! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Web Site of interest
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not hounding you, IG, but when you say, Total freedom of firearms means that people like this would be free to have firearms. you miss the point, which is that he WAS armed, and from what we know about him he would have been armed without regard to the law - as are a great many of the criminal classes. Laws only affect the law-abiding, etc - how many times does this basic point have to be repeated? And when you write, It is a sad but inescapable fact that the degree of responsibility and common sense exercised by the average person is somewhat lacking, I have to say this is one of the worst statements you've uttered: it's a recipe for a police state. The thugs and yobboes you describe are a small minority, and if a proportion of decent people were armed, I suggest that public violence of this kind would diminish drastically. In the USA, which you seem to deride, gun crime is located disproportionately in a few big cities, and public brawling between sport fans is much less common than it is here. The average person, here or in the USA, is decent, responsible, and certainly capable of owning guns wihtout running amok. Maybe your opinions are tainted by contact with too many criminal low-life types. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Certificate Holders
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jonathan writes, If we had a system that issued FAC's, or any type of licence or privilege for that matter, based on the grounds that you didn't like the look of someone then no one would get them. That's what this comes down to - suggestions that X% of FAC holders are dodgy is, ultimately, dangerous prejudice. If people commit crimes they should be prosecuted under the law, but not pre-judged. Even though I've met a few shooters I didn't much care for, they represent a small proportion of the shooting community - a much smaller one than the sizeable portion of the general population I don't care for... And IG writes, Well IG (Don't Mention The War! - just kidding...) in general I agree with Peter Jackson's position, and those who flinch away from suggestions that anyone should have access to firearms should consider the situation of less than 100 years ago: when my grandad was a young man pre-WW1 Englishmen could buy just about whatever guns they wanted, and while gun ownership was widespread, gun crime was so scarce as to be almost non-existent by today's standards. A different world, you say? It was not a golden age of peace and tranquility: there was football hooliganism, violent crime, anarchist bombers, Fenian terrorism etc - but citizens were accorded greater individual responsibility. Decent people vastly outnumber criminals; treating all decent people as potential criminals is a police-state measure; agreeing that this or that category of people (I except those convicted of violent crime) should "of course" not be allowed to have guns is the sort of thin-end-of-the-wedge policy which has led to the present state of bureaucratic oppression. I want my 1911 back. BTW one of the most reckless pieces of gun-handling I've ever seen on the range was by a serving police officer... Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Queen in Trouble
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] What with the squirrels being given paramedic support at the roadside, and the LACS wittering on about HM the Queen wringing the neck of a winged pheasant, I'm in danger of coming on all Victor Meldrew-ish and asking what this country is coming to... Really, it makes you want to weep. In a mature, self-respecting society these pitiful animal-lib types would not receive any press coverage whatsoever. Anthony Harrison -- Well, it was the Mirror. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Cops Shooters tarred w. same brush?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Obergrupenfuhrer (is that spelt right?) No - you left out a "p" and the umlaut over the second "u". OK I'm being pedantic - the real problem with your posting IG is that for someone who (often accurately) highlights the irrelevance of others' postings, and their failure to read what you actually said, you yourself are misinterpreting what I wrote about a couple of things from WW2. If you read my posting again, carefully, you will see that immediately after the piece you quote I suggest that the same principle applies to you and your colleagues - it's the principle that matters. I'm drawing a parallel, not making a "Nazi jibe": I don't think the British police are Nazis (not most of them, anyway) but I raised the question of acquiescent police in occupied countries to highlight the problems inherent in having a uniformed body of people with power over the rest of us. Who guards the guardians, etc, and the conflict between individual conscience and the compulsion to obey orders. I think the police force, and its relationship with the public, should be radically altered, because I see the police as a key symbol of the dependent relationship the State wants between us and itself: to simplify, the State wants us to accept being bossed around by oppressive firearms laws and arrogant Chief Constables as the price for being "protected". The fact that the State cannot and probably will not protect you is neither here nor there - many criminals are stupid, but most aren't so stupid as to bash your head in/burgle your house/rape your wife when there's a policeman around - we have to accept the contract, on pain of severe punishment. You're part of this equation IG, so you come in for a bit of stick I'm afraid. But no-one's calling you a Nazi. BTW What is "combat 18" to which you refer? Anthony Harrison -- Combat 18 are a bunch of right-wing thugs, who are most memorable to me for doing some stupid promo video in which one of them stood there posing with a nickel-plated CZ-75. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Norman Bassett writes, in the latest of his always-interesting reflections, And I think it would be a big step forward if the UK police accepted that they work for the public and not for the Home Office which trains them to regard the public as creatures from another world. I know what you mean, Norman, but I think it might be a little paranoid to suggest police attitudes stem from training by the Home Office - an organisation which I would not trust to train anyone to do anything at all. No, I've always imagined that the us-and-them attitude is inevitable when you have a uniformed body of people set in authority over others: witness "The Authoritarian Personality", and psychological experiments such as the illuminating one where students were randomly assigned to be guards prison inmates, with scary consequences - apart from the many dreadful lessons of history. I read a valuable book in the 1970s, entitled "Scotland Yard", and I wish I could remember the author's name... He spent several months accompanying officers of the Met, and witnessed the growth in new officers of the tendency to categorise civilians as "Chummy", i.e. the citizens who are supposed to be served by the police become just a mildly irritating nuisance... In the course of my bachelor days I happened to have a couple of girl-friends (at different times, I hasten...) both of whom had been formerly married to policemen. They both reflected ruefully upon what they termed a "police culture" which they felt excluded not only them, but the public at large, and which contributed to the collapse of their marriages. This is just anecdotal, sure, but interesting. The relationship between citizens and whatever form of "police" they elect to have (or which is imposed upon them) is always going to need watching carefully. Best wishes to everyone on this newly-restored list - Anthony Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Police Corruption
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ho hum. Here we go again. Shooters v. police... Listen IG, I'm sure most of us think you're a perfectly decent bloke - after all, you go hunting, and clearly know a thing or two about ballistics, so you can't be all bad - but you just have to realise that the long-standing, persistent, authoritarian, damn scary anti-gun anti-liberty attitudes of too many police officers simply means that to some extent you're all tarred with the same brush. Unfair, but that's the way it is. When I was a boy I was taught to trust and like the police; these days I don't. I do my best to keep contact with the police to an absolute minimum, and the same goes for a hell of a lot of people I know. Sorry. Anthony Harrison BTW you're no relation to Iggy Pop I suppose? Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Ruger M77 Heavy Barrel Rifle
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Both Jonathan and Peter seem to have mixed views on the Ruger. My two penn'orth is that I owned only one, a Ruger 77/Mk2 VBZ varmint job in 22-250, and I too had mixed feelings. It was very well fitted and finished, with a particularly nice stainless barrel - very smooth rifling, better than the Rem 700 VS I had subsequently. I shot it enough to establish that it had great accuracy potential - but the trigger was absolutely dreadful, which made it useless as a varmint rifle. Ruger were unco-operative to the point of obstructiveness when I sought their advice. I could only locate one after-market trigger at the time, something obscure which I got at great expense from Brownells, but it failed to offer significant improvement. Pity - with a decent trigger like the Jewell on my Remington, I'd probably still have that Ruger. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Remington 700 Problems
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] While not wanting to belittle any genuine problem which might exist with the Rem 700, or seem indifferent to the Barbers' tragic loss of their son, I have to say that most of the accidents described in this report are clearly due to faulty gun-handling. If a rifle isn't pointing at you, it can't hurt you - and in the case of the guy who unloaded in a pickup truck and injured his brother with a ricochet, that was pretty silly too. What are these people doing, fingering their triggers with the safety on, without taking a shot? The Rem 700 has a reputation for having one of the best out-of-the-box triggers around, one that is widely re-worked by good gunsmiths. Mine is the best rifle I've ever owned. Most of this panic is about American litigation mania, a feeding frenzy promoted by lawyers. Seventeen million dollars compensation for an idiot who shoots himself in the foot? Hell, I'd shoot my foot off for that kind of money. Stark, staring lunacy. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-how to deal with roadkill
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This rings a bell. I once squired a lady - very briefly, until I found out she was bonkers - who nearly had us off the road when she exclaimed, "Oh look out, a squirrel!" and actually grabbed the steering wheel! After saving us both from death or injury I said something comparatively restrained like, "It's just a bloody squirrel, for God's sake," to which she reacted as if I'd confessed to making lampshades out of human skin. At a gun-show I attended in Detroit (terrific - the gun-show that is, not Detroit) one of the more discreet bumper-stickers for sale read, I Eat My Roadkills... Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-Handloading 6.5 x 68
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks David for the load data, which I'll forward to my chum a.s.a.p. Don't think me ungrateful, but the MV figures look a trifle modest, which is a difficulty my chum has commented upon. I think the problem is that as a relatively obscure cartridge published data tend to be very much on the conservative side, plus of course there is not a huge variety of the slow powders which seem most appropriate for use in it. Personally I'd have checked out the load data before choosing this calibre, and gone for something in .25, 6mm or even 7mm (lots of really good bullets powders available) instead, like maybe 6mm Rem Ackley Improved or 25-06 ditto. Baboons have always sounded to me like great quarry for the varmint hunter - not big enough to be big game, but not small either, very wary indeed so a challenge to one's fieldcraft - and with a whiff of danger too, since they can be very nasty if they decide to go for you rather than run away... My friend spent many years in South Africa and confirms that .22 centrefire rounds do not stop baboons reliably - he's also seen one take a solid hit from .308 and not go down. You apparently need something flat-shooting, with lots of punch from a good frangible bullet to deliver so much shock damage that the critters are knocked out immediately. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-Handloading 6.5 x 68
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A chum of mine has a rifle in 6.5 x 68, a custom varmint job which he's put together to take to S.Africa as a long-range baboon destroyer - Shilen barrel, Nightforce NXS scope (800 bucks in US, not the 1150 quid demanded in UK!), Jewell trigger and so on. He's left it in the USA because the hassle of importing it to Britain and finding somewhere here to shoot it, and develop loads, is all too much. But there's a shortage of handloading data for this round: I've sent him what little I have for Vectan and Vihtavuori powders, but does anyone have sources of load data for this interesting cartridge? He's off to New Mexico and elsewhere soon to pot some coyotes, and wants to do some more load development too. All info gratefully received and promptly forwarded. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-threat to shoots
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom Charnock writes: The clever bit is that the Parish had not noticed this was 2 1/2 months after the close of the game season, and for sure neither had the Local Council. But all of them now think of the local pheasant shoot as cowboys. Well, Tom, that says it all - you live in Dorset, don't you? Profoundly rural, Hardy country and all that - and local councillors know b***-all about game shooting seasons! This is a problem faced by many of us in the countryside, where councils are often top-heavy with urban retirees whose ignorance of country matters is matched only by their arrogant indifference to them. It's easy to suggest that we should get stuck in and involve ourselves ourselves actively in local politics, but the system favours the retired and those of independent means - most of us are too busy earning a living to become active, conscientious councillors. I had a brief exchange of letters with a local (Lib Dem, retired urbanite) county councillor after I learned that he had made anti-hunting statements, and I was appalled by his snotty, arrogant, bossy, philistine, pig-headed refusal to interest himself either in an objective analysis of hunting or in the issues of political liberty raised by the anti-fieldsports posturing of his contemptible claque of suburban busybodies. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-flick knives
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Right, let's settle this matter - a very quick search revealed an interesting site (http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/law.htm) which suggests it was indeed in 1959 that flick-knives were banned, largely as a result of the kind of kneejerk moral panic with which shooters are so familiar. The 1959 Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act is the relevant bit of wisdom. It might be interesting - but certainly not very surprising to CS subscribers - to investigate the frequency of UK knife attacks in 1959 compared with today. I mean, one would expect to find that assaults by knife-wielding criminals were virtually unheard of, since the deadly flick-knives were banned forty years ago... And I haven't seen a Teddy Boy for yonks, either. Thank God for our legislators, I say. God bless 'em. Anthony Harrison -- Okay, so after 40 years Strathclyde Police are still seizing them! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-shooter's wives
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] pictures of the shooters wives/husbands would be sent in as well as possibley "Comedy pics" from shoting events (bloke picking nose, drunken person in the bar afterwards, etc.) I'm just wondering if people on the cybershooters list would be interested in getting involved. Christ! Somebody please assure me that (a) the "comedy pics" suggestion is a joke in poor taste, and (b) nobody seriously imagines anyone on the CS list would want to involve himself/herself in anything so crass. I am not encouraged to investigate the "claypigeonshoots" website if this is representative of its content. Anthony Harrison Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Israeli rubber bullets/terrorism etc
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unlike many of my fellow citizens I find myself neutral regarding the Israelis and Palestinians. Spokesmen for the latter make such wildly unrealistic demands concerning the Israelis needing to pull out of Jerusalem altogether (something they won't do 'til hell freezes over) that it reminds us why the Arabs continually come off worst: they are chronically disorganised, hysterical, militarily incompetent, and they inhabit a dreamworld. They're also cruel: the murder of those Israeli soldiers reminded me of the way their Yemeni cousins kidnapped and publically murdered (very nastily) British soldiers in Aden in the early '60s. The Israelis provoke me to bitter laughter, however, as they lash out in spasms of violent indignation when subjected to terrorism - the same terrorism they themselves practiced against the British Army when it was carrying out the UN mandate in post-war Palestine. Don't forget, either, that when Argentina was losing lots of A4s during the Falklands set-to, Israel was ready to replace them pronto. They're no friends of ours. Let them stew. Anthony Harrison -- I don't want to have a general discussion about the politics of the Middle East, I make the simple point that indiscriminately shooting at civilians is going to engender a violent response, and that is what the Israelis are doing. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-Rolex robbery victim dies
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I believe I read somewhere that the Martoranas originate from Sicily. Perhaps the vicious no-brains who murdered Mrs Martorana for a wristwatch should have checked this out first... Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-NIMBY, Olympic medals, town v country
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I entirely agree with Alex's suggestion that undiluted hostility toward anti-noise (or anti-shooting) urban incomers is unproductive, and that we should attempt to educate them. Some of the objectors to clayshooting noise have indeed been to my house for drinks, and met some of my shooting chums, so a certain amount of re-education goes on. But the point has to be made that shooters have compromised too much over the years, to a suicidal degree, both as individuals and more especially through their organising bodies, which until very recently reacted with gutless compliance every time Government said Boo! to them. Some still do... I don't apologise to anybody for my love of shooting and my interest in firearms, and I shall continue to defend shooting as robustly as I think fit. This includes setting straight the sort of bossy, arrogant, manipulative know-alls who seem to be attracted to country iving for the wrong reasons - the kind of people who read "Country Living" in fact. The anti-cock-crow types do exist: I've attended a dinner party which included a couple recently arrived from London, who were distressed at the presence of cow dung in the lane outside their house! They seemed bewildered by my explanation that cows necessarily produced dung, that the cows were from the farm in the village, and that there'd probably been a farm thereabouts for the past thousand years... Force majeure - the preponderance of urbanites over countryfolk - is clearly very important to us practically, but let's not fall into the typically Blairite folly of confusing majority wishes with what is right: too often the word "democracy" is invoked when what the speaker wants appears to be supported by a simple majority. Freedom is meaningless unless minorities are free too - especially when what they do is established by precedent and long practice. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-BBC TV Coverage of Shooting Sports at the Olympics
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whilst appreciating that, to anyone not interested in the shooting sports, the events might seem as exciting as watching paint dry - particularly the deliberate, static target events Yes, well, my long-standing interest in the shooting sports doesn't extend to a smidgeon of interest in the extraordinarily pointless activity of shooting holes in pieces of paper with an air-rifle at 10 metres - I can't really blame non-shooters for their massive indifference. Blasting clay pigeons is only marginally more interesting - for a few minutes anyway, after which one starts slipping into a coma. I'd rather watch steak-and-kidney puddings being hurled from a ballista, perhaps with little knots of politicians as a target. Practical pistol could be terrific on TV, of course. And how about varmint hunting? Out on the prairie with some hot-shots at a prolific 'dog town, little varmints sailing into the air in fragments... Beats Big Brother any day... -- I think watching air rifle is a bit dull, but watching clays is quite interesting, especially when the shooters are really good. More interesting than Badmington at any rate. I've always thought that Free Pistol has got to be one of the hardest Olympic sports, anyone can do it but doing it well is very difficult. But it has to be about the most boring event in the world to watch. The problem with all the Olympic sports is that they are usually very tame compared to the non-Olympic version but all the countries in the world have to agree on the rules for the Olympic version so it usually ends up being the most basic format possible. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Liberals
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shooters are right to doubt the appropriateness of voting LibDem - they say one thing (all sorts of things in fact, they're very talkative) and do another. Just remember that despite their protestations of open-mindedness about things such as fox-hunting, when in power on both Somerset and Devon CCs they tried to ban it on council-controlled land. I know from personal experience and current acquaintance (one LibDem PPC is a near neighbour)that the party includes a lot of what you might call the vegetarian, bearded (mostly men, that one)sandal-wearing fraternity who do not in general know one end of a gun from the other, and whose opinions on shooting fieldsports vary from mild disgust to virulent opposition. Liberals tend to be extremely illiberal when exposed to people who dispute some of their most cherished beliefs. Nope, it's mostly a choice (if that's the word) between one bunch of corporatist authoritarians whose colour is blue, and another similar bunch whose colour is red - well, pale pink these days... -- To be honest I think you could say that about any political party - I have no problem voting for the Liberals if they represent my views, they just seem to be a pale shadow of the Labour Party since the election so why on Earth vote for a party unlikely to gain power if their policies aren't that different? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-it's cheaper elsewhere
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nick Royall writes: stop whinging unless to (sic) are going to take up accountancy as well as shooting then you will know what establishment costs and EOQ's are and then you will do the decent thing and buy hundreds of guns each and thousands of bolt on bits for them. Buy locally sourced stuff when you can rather than run it down, its cheaper in the long run. Really, Nick, this is just too patronising. Are you suggesting that reasoned protests about the guntrade's pricing are nothing more than whinging? Do you seriously suggest that shooters should not complain unless they know accountancy? And you must be kidding with that "cheaper in the long run" stuff - how on earth do you work that one out? Judging from what other posters besides myself have said, if we all switched to mail-ordering from the USA, we'd save money - in the short term as well as the long term. I'm not suggesting we do this! Just demolishing your statement. As I've said in previous postings, I know some gun dealers who are bright, energetic and realistic: they go to great lengths to source kit which they can sell on at a profit without the retail price being extortionate. Such dealers deserve our custom, though we shall still feel free to buy certain things wherever they're cheaper. But I (and others too I dare say) know people in the guntrade who are not simply incompetent, with exorbitant pricing, but remarkably unpleasant to boot. All I'm saying is that market forces apply inexorably, and whether you like it or not, consumers will buy things as cheaply as they can from people they can deal with. If that means they buy from dealers in the USA, or Basutoland, or wherever, so be it: Mr three-hundred-percent-markup down the road has had his day - especially if he's the sort of ignorant, miserable sod who's all too common behind UK gunshop counters. -- Well if customers need to know accounting, dealers need to know economics! I can't even find Hoppe's No 9 in gun shops here, I have to bring it back with me when I go on holiday. Basically we're all stuffed until we get the laws improved. However, like I said before, the dealers who seem to be doing the best are the ones who have products you can't get overseas, such as straight-pull rifles, or custom pistol-calibre rifles, long-barrelled revolvers and so on. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-NZ/toy guns
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whenever I come across things like this I can't help thinking of my grandfather, who grew up in rural Shropshire in the late 19th century. Guns were at least as much a part of rural life as it is suggested they are now in NZ, and I'm sure if any teacher had tried to institute "toy gun licences" (not that they would have been allowed to take such things to school, even if their parents could afford such exotic luxuries) bafflement would have filled the community, followed by derision and anger. While still a lad, grandad was given the job of guarding a farmer's orchards while the man went on a trip; he was given a BP shotgun, a d/b hammer job, and told me he shot a squirrel with it! Some years later he had to apply his shooting skills in earnest, but survived WW1 with a shell-torn thigh and a bullet through his side. Another 45 years on, he fished the gun out of a trunk and gave it to me. It serves as a reminder of times when Englishmen could own pretty well whatever guns they wanted, without interference from the State - and when England was a damn sight less crime-ridden that it is now. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-ECHR/Speed Cameras
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve - this subject is not as off-topic as some might think, since the process of covering our road network with cameras has parallels with firearms legislation. As with the latter, people-control by speed camera has a curious history, unstated agendas, and is inimical to liberty. When first introduced, it was affirmed by the authorities that cameras were only to be a deterrent - but unlike the practice in some other countries, ours have always been camouflaged with drab grey paint, which means that because you can't see them, you can't be deterred from speeding by them. It also means that they "catch" more speeding drivers, which raises more money in fines - and (extraordinary coincidence, this) when a recent change took effect, allowing police authorities to receive a cut of the fines accruing from speed-cameras, the number of such fines increased dramatically! Firearms legislation is supposed to be about reducing armed crime, but is actually about disarming the civilian populace; speed cameras are supposed to be about making the roads safer (whether they do is questionable) but have far more to do with raising revenue, and people-control. I believe at the last count there were something like four and a half thousand cameras on our roads, which makes us more closely scrutinised than any other country in Europe, possibly the world. Have a look at the Association of British Drivers' very interesting website for facts figures, including a county-by-county index of speed camera locations - I found cameras in my area that I didn't know about... Incidentally, Charles Parker's reference to Transport 2000 is interesting too - though bigger than the GCN (it could hardly be smaller) it is a very small lobbying group which nevertheless includes some household names and which seems to punch above its weight. It has been described as anti-car, and is heavily biased in favour of the Luddite, authoritarian politics of metropolitan lefties and eco-fascists. -- I thought the firearms legislation had always been about disarming people. I know in the debate in 1920 they started off saying it was to stop crime but it ended up being a debate about disarming people. All the Government papers from the period indicate a strong desire to generally disarm the people. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Geeks with guns!
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A crowd favorite was the Sig-Sauer P220 0.45 millimeter automatic handgun Love it! An automatic weapon in .45 mm! Just right for the plague of wasps currently afflicting us... Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-checks and balances
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am delighted to be able to agree with Neil Francis, for once. The very idea of government by constant plebiscite is horrifying, since it would be the antithesis of democracy - if you believe that "democracy" should mean pretty much the same thing as "free society". Parliamentary democracy is supposed (Hah!) to protect us from the tyranny of the majority as much as from the malign, selfish interests of the few. I don't know about others, but I can't walk through a town without reflecting gloomily that the shaven-headed tattooed thug swigging lager across the street has a vote worth just as much as mine - and there are an awful lot of people who share his mindless, kneejerk, fascist view of society. Somebody once said that while the majority is always wrong, the minority is often right - anathema to many liberal types, but it's the reason why too much government, whether of the plebiscite or Parliamentary variety, is a bad thing. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-The fight
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] re. Tony Martin: It's a pity he was not a drug smuggler or part of an Easter agreement he might be let out. writes Graham Gartshore. And more specifically, it's a pity he wasn't the former commander of the Belfast Brigade of the Provisional IRA, and a current (though nominal, since Adams declines to take his seat because he can't stomach the loyalty oath) Member of Parliament, feted and interviewed on TV and radio... BTW Graham, I collect quotes, such as the excellent ones found on postings in this list - 64 to date about liberty and gun ownership. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-WW2 Actors
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trivial Pursuit, cont'd - the latest action movie my wife has had to produce translated subtitles for was called The Delta Force, an enjoyable piece of mindless fun with villains getting blown away by the score, though not up to Red Dawn I fear. Who should I see in it but the late, great Lee Marvin? Pity to see him going somewhat downmarket in the twilight of his career, but no doubt it earned him a damn good wage. Anyway, it reminded me that he was another combat veteran who made it into the movies - he was in the US Marines I understand, and saw action in the Pacific. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-chain mail
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ask an obscure question, get an obscure answer... I know very little about armour, but here are two companies who advertise in Heritage magazine: Battle Orders, 01323 485182 Museum Replicas Ltd UK, 0845 6021905 I've sometimes wondered how on earth they kept chain mail clean and rust-free, without WD-40... Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-US Military Terminology
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If I'd known the amount of time my fellow Cybershooters would devote to assisting with my terminology problem, I might not have posted the query! Many thanks to all who have helped, not least to Alex's friend in Colorado. The original difficulty was the weird "duffle-A" business, but when that was discovered to be a mis-transcription of "defilade" (after I'd listened to the bum videotape several times) it was sorted, since although I'd never heard the word used before I knew immediately it must be related to "enfilade". Defilade is used here in noun form, meaning a minor fortification. The "grazing fire" thing proved more difficult until the recent expert commentary. Incidentally, Red Dawn has grown on me somewhat, and it's not as bad as I'd expected. Implausible maybe, but not stupid. Quite stirring in fact - and the chorus of derision from the Guardian-reading constituency which greeted its release is understandable, since the film celebrates such things as liberty, patriotism, self reliance and, obliquely, the freedom to be armed. All things which politicians in the USA and UK mostly fear and detest... Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
