Re: Removal of Oraperl from DBD::Oracle?
On 01/10/2012 09:30 PM, Yanick Champoux wrote: On 12-01-10 09:47 PM, Darren Duncan wrote: After the first release of Oraperl in a separate distro, as long as you don't change something in DBD::Oracle that breaks the API that Oraperl depends on, you never have to release another version of Oraperl itself again. I thought about that option as well, but I don't think it buys us anything. For as long as DBD::Oracle doesn't break Oraperl, to have the latter bundled with the former doesn't require any additional work, and doesn't hurt. And when DBD::Oracle will finally break Oraperl, having Oraperl in its own distribution means that for it to work you'll have to manually install a non-latest version of Oracle for it to work -- if it's still bundled with DBD::Oracle, 'cpanm Oraperl' will do the right thing and fetch the last version of DBD::Oracle that includes, and supports Oraperl. It seems that what it buys you is a sort of super-deprecation warning. If I use Oraperl, then the first time I update DBD::Oracle my code stops working, but I have a solution: Install Oraperl itself. But now I've taken this intentional step, and I know that my next update of DBD::Oracle will be at my own risk. The repackaging would keep Oraperl functional while making it something of a hassle to use, which seems a better motivation for people to stop using it than a deprecation warning. This spoken by someone who's still using DBD::Oracle v1.23 with almost never a complaint, so take my comments either with salt or as confirmation of Tim Bunce's observation that the intended audience rarely upgrades. dave
Re: Removal of Oraperl from DBD::Oracle?
On 12-01-10 03:25 AM, Tim Bunce wrote: I wouldn't mention a specific timeframe. Just say that Oraperl was deprecated years ago, will be removed in a near-future release, and any scripts using it should be rewritten to use DBI calls. Then forget about it. There's no reason to actually remove it soon and the longer it's not removed the more likely the message is to reach its intended audience (who tend to upgrade rarely). I can do that, no problem. The only thing I'm afraid of, is that by not giving a specific timeframe, human psychology will do what human psychology does and people will tend to disregard the deprecation notice. :-) But you are right, there is no rush to actually remove the module itself, and perhaps the warning alone will do its job of nudging most of the last stragglers toward DBI. Joy, `/anick
Re: Removal of Oraperl from DBD::Oracle?
Yanick Champoux wrote: On 12-01-10 03:25 AM, Tim Bunce wrote: I can do that, no problem. The only thing I'm afraid of, is that by not giving a specific timeframe, human psychology will do what human psychology does and people will tend to disregard the deprecation notice. :-) But you are right, there is no rush to actually remove the module itself, and perhaps the warning alone will do its job of nudging most of the last stragglers toward DBI. There is another option, assuming that Oraperl is just a wrapper over DBD::Oracle. You could split off Oraperl into a separate CPAN distribution which depends on DBD::Oracle. People who need Oraperl install both, and those that don't, don't. After the first release of Oraperl in a separate distro, as long as you don't change something in DBD::Oracle that breaks the API that Oraperl depends on, you never have to release another version of Oraperl itself again. Then you don't have to think about deprecation of Oraperl so much as deprecation of DBD::Oracle features that Oraperl depends on, which is much less likely since other things probably use those features too. -- Darren Duncan
Re: Removal of Oraperl from DBD::Oracle?
On 12-01-10 09:47 PM, Darren Duncan wrote: After the first release of Oraperl in a separate distro, as long as you don't change something in DBD::Oracle that breaks the API that Oraperl depends on, you never have to release another version of Oraperl itself again. I thought about that option as well, but I don't think it buys us anything. For as long as DBD::Oracle doesn't break Oraperl, to have the latter bundled with the former doesn't require any additional work, and doesn't hurt. And when DBD::Oracle will finally break Oraperl, having Oraperl in its own distribution means that for it to work you'll have to manually install a non-latest version of Oracle for it to work -- if it's still bundled with DBD::Oracle, 'cpanm Oraperl' will do the right thing and fetch the last version of DBD::Oracle that includes, and supports Oraperl. Joy, `/anick
Re: Removal of Oraperl from DBD::Oracle?
On 01/04/12 14:33, Jared Still wrote: I would think being forced to quit using Oraperl would be a good thing? :) I tend to agree. But I had to ask before I pull that rug off from everyone's feet, just in case someone is still actually standing on it. :-) But seriously, when was the last time anyone of heard of someone using Oraperl, or asking questions about it? I googled a little bit, and from what I can see, people were already told that Oraperl is old and deprecated in... 2001. Didn't get any better after that. :-) I have some really old (good) stuff that uses Oraperl. Should I ever want to use it again I would most definitely convert to DBD::Oracle. At the time I wrote those scripts (1995!) , DBD::Oracle was new and scary. :) Well, it's still scary aplenty, but I daresay that by now, we have the 'new' mitigated. :-) Joy, `/anick -- Pythian proud winner of Oracle North America Titan Award for Exadata Solution...watch the video on pythian.com
Re: Removal of Oraperl from DBD::Oracle?
I would think being forced to quit using Oraperl would be a good thing? :) But seriously, when was the last time anyone of heard of someone using Oraperl, or asking questions about it? I have some really old (good) stuff that uses Oraperl. Should I ever want to use it again I would most definitely convert to DBD::Oracle. At the time I wrote those scripts (1995!) , DBD::Oracle was new and scary. :) Jared On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 11:09, Yanick Champoux yanick.champ...@gmail.comwrote: Hi all, For a long time now, the documentation of DBD::Oracle had been warning that Oraperl is deprecated. A few releases back, I ratcheted up the warning and mentioned that Oraperl would be dropped from the DBD::Oracle distro in the new year, after v1.38. And now that the new year and v1.38 are upon us, I'm thinking on acting on the promise. But before I do, wisdom begs me to consult the dbi hivemind. Sooo... Can anybody know of anyone/anything who would be impacted (negatively) by the removal of said Oraperl? Joy, `/anick -- Jared Still Sr. DBA The Pythian Group -- Pythian proud winner of Oracle North America Titan Award for Exadata Solution...watch the video on pythian.com
Re: Removal of Oraperl from DBD::Oracle?
On 04/01/12 19:09, Yanick Champoux wrote: Hi all, For a long time now, the documentation of DBD::Oracle had been warning that Oraperl is deprecated. A few releases back, I ratcheted up the warning and mentioned that Oraperl would be dropped from the DBD::Oracle distro in the new year, after v1.38. And now that the new year and v1.38 are upon us, I'm thinking on acting on the promise. But before I do, wisdom begs me to consult the dbi hivemind. Sooo... Can anybody know of anyone/anything who would be impacted (negatively) by the removal of said Oraperl? I started working with Oracle in 1993. At that time I wrote some simple utilities in oraperl. I read Yanick's recent warning, and reacted to it by wrapping my copies of Oraperl.pm with logging script. To my surprise, I found six or seven little oraperl scripts which were still in use, some in critical applications! I have now converted these scripts, and I am ready for the demise of Oraperl.pm. I am completely in favour of the abolition of oraperl, but I think it would be kind to start with a version which emits a warning message from the main line of Oraperl.pm, so any unfortunate end users of oraperl will have some time to convert, or seek advice. -- Charles Jardine - Computing Service, University of Cambridge c...@cam.ac.ukTel: +44 1223 334506, Fax: +44 1223 334679
