Re: install Kernel and GRUB in chroot.

[Dmitry]

sudo -i


Thank you!



I am unsure what UUID you mean.


At Manjaro:

grubx64.efi is at the sdb1 - EFI vfat /dev/sdb1
grub.cfg is at the sdb2 - crypto_LUKS /dev/sdb2

grubx64.efi contains data UUID=""a8...b7" of /dev/sdb2 which is 
TYPE="crypto_LUKS".


`blkid` output:
/dev/sdb2: UUID="a8...b7" TYPE="crypto_LUKS" PARTUUID="8...5"

`strings /boot/efi/EFI/Manjaro/grub64x.efi` output:
cryptomount -u a8...b7
(cryptouuid/a8...b7)/boot/grub

I have a Manjaro installed, and what to migrate to Debian. That involves 
exploration of Booting order.


In the Manjaro GRUB installation mounting point for ESP (sdb1) is:
/boot/efi
And the grub.cfg is
/boot/grub/grub.cfg

The grub.cfg located at the crypto partition sdb2.

Manjaro has different GRUB installation scheme from Debian.

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[황병희]

Hellow David,

On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 13:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> On Sun 04 Feb 2024 at 13:57:13 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> > On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 10:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > On Fri 02 Feb 2024 at 07:37:34 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2024-01-31 at 22:12 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > > > On Tue 30 Jan 2024 at 07:05:55 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > > > > > I also have a more vague memory that you could put config
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > /etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance
> > > > > > NetworkManager would
> > > > > > not try and manage that interface, and in others it would
> > > > > > take over.
> > > > > > (Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown
> > > > > > config?)
> > > > > 
> > > > > That seems unlikely. Perhaps you're thinking of NM's ifupdown
> > > > > plugin
> > > > > that allows you to use the configuration in /e/n/i. I'm
> > > > > assuming the
> > > > > OP has not installed that in their sleep.
> > > > 
> > > > They wouldn't need to because it looks like it's shipped with
> > > > the main
> > > > network-manage package which contains various files with
> > > > 'plugin' in
> > > > their name, including libnm-settings-plugin-ifupdown.so.
> > > 
> > > What I said was unlikely is that an option in ifupdown's
> > > configuration,
> > > /e/n/i, would control NM's behaviour. It's the mere mention of
> > > the
> > > interface there, as in   iface enp5s0 inet dhcp   that makes
> > > ifupdown
> > > control it, and makes NM back off, AIUI.
> > > 
> > > > As we've seen from the OPs latest reply, the plugin is
> > > > configured to
> > > > not manage interfaces.
> > > 
> > > Right, and so the default NM configuration (ifupdown plugin
> > > present,
> > > news to me) and   [ifupdown] // managed=false   in the .conf
> > > file,
> > > means that NM should not, by default, configure any interface
> > > mentioned in /e/n/i. In the OP's case, the original /e/n/i:
> > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
> > > is big enough to hold a typical lo+eth+wlan configuration, which
> > > we haven't seen yet.
> > 
> > Sorry for late, David! 
> 
> That's the beauty of mailing lists: it just doesn't matter.
> 
> > root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# cat interfaces.orig
> > # This file describes the network interfaces available on your
> > system
> > # and how to activate them. For more information, see
> > interfaces(5).
> > 
> > source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
> > 
> > # The loopback network interface
> > auto lo
> > iface lo inet loopback
> > 
> > # The primary network interface
> > allow-hotplug wlp4s0
> > iface wlp4s0 inet dhcp
> > # wireless-* options are implemented by the wireless-tools
> > package
> > wireless-mode managed
> > wireless-essid V30_3982
> > root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# date
> 
> So it would appear that your question is exactly as in the reference
> you quoted, that ifupdown was configuring wlp4s0 when /w/n/i was
> in place, resulting in NM displaying a question mark. Now you've
> removed it, NM has taken over. That's just as in the first answer
> (Stephen Kitt Jul 23, 2018 7:00), except for the minor detail that
> Kitt mentions one should down the interface before moving /e/n/i
> if one wants to make the change cleanly, without rebooting.
> 
> (Frequently, people forget that /e/n/i is reread by ifupdown
> whenever you run its binaries; that's different from how many
> other programs treat their configuration files.)
> 
> > 1. I have never touched the inside of that file.
> > 2. I guess the real original file was from Debian 12. 
> 
> Not knowing the history of your installation, I wouldn't like
> to guess exactly how NM and ifupdown arrived at your earlier
> situation. But to answer the question posed in your OP,
> there's no bug here—just two wifi configuration methods
> being prioritised in accordance with their design.
> 
> Cheers,
> David.

Thank you for confirming that this is not a bug. And thank you to Max
and Tixy for participating in this discussion.

I'm happy now. Also Debian Sid are good for desktop, i think.


Sincerely, Byunghee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

RE: Re: Instalação AbiWord

[João Pedro Nader Gervasoni]

FAVOR ME RETIRAR DESTA LISTA

De: Renato Kloss 
Enviado: domingo, 4 de fevereiro de 2024 20:52
Para: debian-user-portuguese@lists.debian.org 

Assunto: Re: Re: Instalação AbiWord

Como inserir fonte Arial no Abiword?
Como instalar verão em português do Abiword?
Renato

Re: Instalação AbiWord

[Paulo Almeida]

procure pelo pacote ttf-mscorefonts-installer

On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 11:57 PM Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA
 wrote:
>
> Le 04/02/2024 à 20:52, Renato Kloss a écrit :
> > Como inserir fonte Arial no Abiword?
>
> A Arial é proprietária.  Geralmente prefere-se usar uma equivalente, com
> as sans serif por exemplo do conjunto de fontes Linux Libertine (apt
> install aptitude; aptitude search libertine; aptitude install…).  De
> qualquer maneira, o Abiword usará o que estiver no Debian.  Outra
> alternativa é instalar no Debian uma alternativa proprietária melhor,
> como alguma Helvetica.  Mas se preciar muito exatamente da Arial, pode
> tentar ver se ainda tem um pacote msttfonts ou algo assim.
>
>
> > Como instalar verão em português do Abiword?
>
> Já vem instalado.  Programas decente não têm versões em línguas
> específicas: vêm com todas as línguas e apresentam a que estiver
> configurada no perfil do usuário no sistema operacional.  Geralmente é
> uma configuração padrão no Debian (/etc/languages ou algo assim) mas que
> pode-se alterar no ambiente gráfico, por exemplo no Gnome.
>
>
> --
> /¯\ +55 (61) 3216 3613 mailto:l...@dutras.org
> \ / +55 (61) 3546 7191xmpp:leand...@jabber.org
>   X  +55 (61) 99302 2691  matrix:user/l...@matrix.org
> / \ Brazil GMT−3 https://useplaintext.email/#why-plaintext
>

Re: Instalação AbiWord

[Leandro Guimarães Faria Corcete DUTRA]

Le 04/02/2024 à 20:52, Renato Kloss a écrit :

Como inserir fonte Arial no Abiword?


A Arial é proprietária.  Geralmente prefere-se usar uma equivalente, com 
as sans serif por exemplo do conjunto de fontes Linux Libertine (apt 
install aptitude; aptitude search libertine; aptitude install…).  De 
qualquer maneira, o Abiword usará o que estiver no Debian.  Outra 
alternativa é instalar no Debian uma alternativa proprietária melhor, 
como alguma Helvetica.  Mas se preciar muito exatamente da Arial, pode 
tentar ver se ainda tem um pacote msttfonts ou algo assim.




Como instalar verão em português do Abiword?


Já vem instalado.  Programas decente não têm versões em línguas 
específicas: vêm com todas as línguas e apresentam a que estiver 
configurada no perfil do usuário no sistema operacional.  Geralmente é 
uma configuração padrão no Debian (/etc/languages ou algo assim) mas que 
pode-se alterar no ambiente gráfico, por exemplo no Gnome.



--
/¯\ +55 (61) 3216 3613 mailto:l...@dutras.org
\ / +55 (61) 3546 7191xmpp:leand...@jabber.org
 X  +55 (61) 99302 2691  matrix:user/l...@matrix.org
/ \ Brazil GMT−3 https://useplaintext.email/#why-plaintext

Re: script/history

[Gareth Evans]

On Mon 05/02/2024 at 00:45, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
...
> If you're one of these "I want every command I ever run to be in my
> shell history, retained forever, and I don't care how much space it
> takes" people, then there are web pages out there that can help you.
> I don't follow that philosophy myself, so I can't give you specific
> variables and settings.  But Google can.

I find a long history useful, and have already googled for such, though I 
should perhaps rotate it at some point :)

Thanks for the detailed explanation.
G

Re: script/history

[Gareth Evans]

(Re)posting the below as requested, and can confirm 

history -r 

seems to have the desired effect.
Thanks.

- Original message -
From: Will Mengarini 
To: Gareth Evans 
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: script/history
Date: Monday, 5 February 2024 01:02

* Gareth Evans  [24-02/04=Su 09:46 +]:
> Re the script command, does anyone know of a way to make
> commands run during a script session appear in bash history too?

You want the 'history -r' command, "explained" by `help history`.

After you end the script, you're back in the bash instance you ran
'script' from.  When you ended the script & therefore the bash being run
in that script, that bash wrote its commands to ~/.bash_history; but
the bash you're running, which is the one you ran script from, hasn't
read that ~/.bash_history.  Running 'history -r' will cause it to do so.

BTW I've got some kind of email configuration problem that usually
prevents me from posting to debian-user, even though I can usually
email individual users.  Gareth, if you get this, and it's the correct
solution to your original problem, perhaps you could post it to the
list; this email is CCd to debian-user, but I expect the CC to bounce.

Re: script/history

[Will Mengarini]

* Gareth Evans  [24-02/04=Su 09:46 +]:
> Re the script command, does anyone know of a way to make
> commands run during a script session appear in bash history too?

You want the 'history -r' command, "explained" by `help history`.

After you end the script, you're back in the bash instance you ran
'script' from.  When you ended the script & therefore the bash being run
in that script, that bash wrote its commands to ~/.bash_history; but
the bash you're running, which is the one you ran script from, hasn't
read that ~/.bash_history.  Running 'history -r' will cause it to do so.

BTW I've got some kind of email configuration problem that usually
prevents me from posting to debian-user, even though I can usually
email individual users.  Gareth, if you get this, and it's the correct
solution to your original problem, perhaps you could post it to the
list; this email is CCd to debian-user, but I expect the CC to bounce.

Re: script/history

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 12:28:38AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
> I was trying to view the history of commands run during a script session.
> 
> user@qwerty:~$ script foo
> Script started, output log file is 'foo'.
> user@qwerty:~$ date
> Mon  5 Feb 00:21:16 GMT 2024
> user@qwerty:~$ exit
> exit
> Script done.
> user@qwerty:~$ history |tail -n3
> 30914  2024-02-04 23:44:24  man script
> 30915  2024-02-05 00:21:15  script foo
> 30916  2024-02-05 00:21:25  history |tail -n3 # NB "date" is missing
> 
> Michael Grant pointed out (among other things) that the history is available, 
> but not in the terminal in which script has just exited.

OK.  Well, start by thinking about what happens if you're in a bash
shell, and you type "bash".  You get a second bash instance, which is a
child process of the original shell.  The original shell goes to sleep,
and waits for the child to exit.

When the child process starts up, it reads the .bash_history file (unless
you changed the variable that names the file), thereby loading the shell
history from disk into memory.  Then you run whatever commands you run,
and those are appended to the in-memory shell history.  Then you exit,
at which point bash rewrites the .bash_history file.

After exiting from the child shell, you're back in the original shell.
The original shell's in-memory history did not change during the child's
lifetime.  The only change to the in-memory history is the addition of
a "bash" command.  The .bash_history file has been changed, but the
running shell doesn't read that to get the new contents in memory.

If/when you exit from the original shell, the .bash_history file will
be rewritten again, using the in-memory history of the original bash
instance.  This does *not* include any changes that were written by
the child process.  Those changes may simply be lost.  It depends on
which history options you've chosen, and how many new commands were
appended to the original shell's in-memory history before exiting.

Once you understand all of this, then it should be obvious how "script"
works.  It runs a new instance of "bash".  As far as history goes, it
works exactly like the above.  The only difference is you've also got
a file containing a recording of the terminal session.

If you're one of these "I want every command I ever run to be in my
shell history, retained forever, and I don't care how much space it
takes" people, then there are web pages out there that can help you.
I don't follow that philosophy myself, so I can't give you specific
variables and settings.  But Google can.

Re: script/history

[Gareth Evans]

On Sun 04/02/2024 at 19:45, David Wright  wrote:
...
> According to this man page for csh (but includes tcsh):
>
>   https://linux.die.net/man/1/csh
>
> the "a" that modifies modifiers is a "[feature] of tcsh not found
> in most csh(1) implementations (specifically, the 4.4BSD csh)". It
> appears that bash supports it syntactically, but not its semantics.
> I'm not sure why you mentioned this shell detail specifically.

I was just highlighting a way to see if behaviour differs between bash "proper" 
and script running in bash.

cf.

"a (+)
Apply the following modifier as many times as possible to a single word ..."
https://linux.die.net/man/1/csh

"a
Cause changes to be applied over the entire event line ..."
https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bash.html#Word-Designators

Thanks
Gareth

Re: script/history

[Gareth Evans]

On Sun 04/02/2024 at 17:33, Greg Wooledge  wrote:
...
> The script(1) utility has NOTHING to do with running ordinary shell
> scripts.

I understand that.

I was trying to view the history of commands run during a script session.

user@qwerty:~$ script foo
Script started, output log file is 'foo'.
user@qwerty:~$ date
Mon  5 Feb 00:21:16 GMT 2024
user@qwerty:~$ exit
exit
Script done.
user@qwerty:~$ history |tail -n3
30914  2024-02-04 23:44:24  man script
30915  2024-02-05 00:21:15  script foo
30916  2024-02-05 00:21:25  history |tail -n3 # NB "date" is missing

Michael Grant pointed out (among other things) that the history is available, 
but not in the terminal in which script has just exited.

Meanwhile, I read man script and wondered if csh, or even just csh's approach 
to history manipulation, was somehow involved.

I was then a little surprised to see 

user@qwerty:~$ csh # bash prompt
% script foo   # csh prompt
Script started, output log file is 'foo'.
user@qwerty:~$ date# bash prompt in script in csh in bash
Sun  4 Feb 23:25:14 GMT 2024
user@qwerty:~$ exit
exit
Script done.
% exit
% exit
user@qwerty:~$ 

although on a "native" csh system, I would expect script to "present" csh, not 
bash.  I 

I am left with the impression that script may impose csh's history 
substitution/manipulation approach/syntax (for what differences there may be) 
regardless of which shell it's running from, and that that is the reason for 
the reference to csh for the "history mechanism" in man script.

Thanks
Gareth

Re: Re: Instalação AbiWord

[Renato Kloss]

Como inserir fonte Arial no Abiword?
Como instalar verão em português do Abiword?
Renato

Re: Firefox

[ajh-valmer]

On Sunday 04 February 2024 20:57:56 Daniel SAUVARD wrote:
> Pour la page d'accueil de Firefox : Settings -> Home -> Home :

Super, merci.
Ne fréquentez pas ces pages publicitaires déguisées en articles ineptes,
vous ne perdez rien :-)

> Le 04/02/2024 à 20:28, ajh-valmer a écrit :
> > j'avais signalé sur la ML qu'au bout de quelques minutes,
> > je ne peux plus me connecter à tous les sites (ça mouline).
> > J'ai découvert que ce phénomène se produit lorsque
> > je me connecte à des sites sponsorisés de la page d'accueil
> > qui finissent par tout bloquer.
> > Je ne vois pas dans Firefox ou choisir sa page d'accueil.

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Anssi Saari]

Lee  writes:

> I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
> which keyboard do you like and why?

I've had a fnatic ministreak for a few years. Why?
- RGB backlight, I set it to a pleasant green.
- remappable keys, remappings stored in the keyboard so it works the
  same everywhere. Two layouts but I only need one.
- mechanical keys but quiet ones (Cherry MX Red Silent).
- tenkeyless, so without the numeric pad I don't need.
- Some media keys, I really only use volume up and down.

Only improvement I'd like is macros that you could copy-paste in and
adjust their speed. This has macros but you have to type them in which
isn't that helpful. My use case is getting passwords into stupid devices
and apps, thankfully it's not that common but there's always that one
thing on some gizmo that insists you have to type in the password. In
fact, my TV has at least two.

Before this I had a Happy Hacking keyboard lite for about 20 years. It
was and is great, just a little short on keys and lacks the other
features mentioned above too.

Re: script/history

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2024 at 01:45:27PM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> SCRIPT(1) User Commands  SCRIPT(1)
> [ … ]
> HISTORY
>The script command appeared in 3.0BSD.
> 
> I have no idea why "the history mechanism" is even mentioned
> in the man page for script.

It appears in the FreeBSD man page as well, but not the OpenBSD man
page.

https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?script
https://man.openbsd.org/script

I don't understand why that parenthetical comment is in the FreeBSD
man page either, but it was clearly copied over to the util-linux
man page without modification.

Another thing I don't understand is what the OP of this thread was
trying to do in the first place.

Re: Firefox

[Daniel SAUVARD]

Bonjour.

Pour la page d'accueil de Firefox : Settings -> Home -> Home

Bonne soirée,
Daniel SAUVARD



Le 04/02/2024 à 20:28, ajh-valmer a écrit :

Je profite du sujet "firefox et avira",

j'avais signalé sur la ML qu'au bout de quelques minutes,
je ne peux plus me connecter à tous les sites (ça mouline).
J'ai découvert que ce phénomène se produit lorsque
je me connecte à des sites sponsorisés de la page d'accueil
qui finissent par tout bloquer.
Je ne vois pas dans Firefox ou choisir sa page d'accueil.

Bonne soirée.

Re: script/history

[David Wright]

On Sun 04 Feb 2024 at 16:01:29 (+), Gareth Evans wrote:
> On Sun 04/02/2024 at 13:24, Max Nikulin  wrote:
> > On 04/02/2024 16:46, Gareth Evans wrote:
> >> Re the script command, does anyone know of a way [ … ]
> > [...]
> >> man script says
> >> 
> >> "SEE ALSO
> >> csh(1) (for the history mechanism)"

My take on this is that the man page was originally written for
BSD, which lies on the csh side of the "great divide" rather
than the sh/bash side.

SCRIPT(1) User Commands  SCRIPT(1)
[ … ]
HISTORY
   The script command appeared in 3.0BSD.

I have no idea why "the history mechanism" is even mentioned
in the man page for script.

> The function of the "a" option in History Substitution in man csh seems 
> different in the bash version.(under "Word Designators" in man bash/gnu 
> online manual)

According to this man page for csh (but includes tcsh):

  https://linux.die.net/man/1/csh

the "a" that modifies modifiers is a "[feature] of tcsh not found
in most csh(1) implementations (specifically, the 4.4BSD csh)". It
appears that bash supports it syntactically, but not its semantics.
I'm not sure why you mentioned this shell detail specifically.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Q: Gnome network odd

[David Wright]

On Sun 04 Feb 2024 at 13:57:13 (+0900), Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote:
> On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 10:41 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 02 Feb 2024 at 07:37:34 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2024-01-31 at 22:12 -0600, David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Tue 30 Jan 2024 at 07:05:55 (+), Tixy wrote:
> > > > > I also have a more vague memory that you could put config into
> > > > > /etc/network/interfaces then in some circumstance NetworkManager would
> > > > > not try and manage that interface, and in others it would take over.
> > > > > (Perhaps selected by allow hotplug option in the ifupdown config?)
> > > > 
> > > > That seems unlikely. Perhaps you're thinking of NM's ifupdown plugin
> > > > that allows you to use the configuration in /e/n/i. I'm assuming the
> > > > OP has not installed that in their sleep.
> > > 
> > > They wouldn't need to because it looks like it's shipped with the main
> > > network-manage package which contains various files with 'plugin' in
> > > their name, including libnm-settings-plugin-ifupdown.so.
> > 
> > What I said was unlikely is that an option in ifupdown's configuration,
> > /e/n/i, would control NM's behaviour. It's the mere mention of the
> > interface there, as in   iface enp5s0 inet dhcp   that makes ifupdown
> > control it, and makes NM back off, AIUI.
> > 
> > > As we've seen from the OPs latest reply, the plugin is configured to
> > > not manage interfaces.
> > 
> > Right, and so the default NM configuration (ifupdown plugin present,
> > news to me) and   [ifupdown] // managed=false   in the .conf file,
> > means that NM should not, by default, configure any interface
> > mentioned in /e/n/i. In the OP's case, the original /e/n/i:
> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  433 Oct  4 17:23 interfaces.orig
> > is big enough to hold a typical lo+eth+wlan configuration, which
> > we haven't seen yet.
> 
> Sorry for late, David! 

That's the beauty of mailing lists: it just doesn't matter.

> root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# cat interfaces.orig
> # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
> # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
> 
> source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
> 
> # The loopback network interface
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
> 
> # The primary network interface
> allow-hotplug wlp4s0
> iface wlp4s0 inet dhcp
>   # wireless-* options are implemented by the wireless-tools
> package
>   wireless-mode managed
>   wireless-essid V30_3982
> root@thinkpad-e495:/etc/network# date

So it would appear that your question is exactly as in the reference
you quoted, that ifupdown was configuring wlp4s0 when /w/n/i was
in place, resulting in NM displaying a question mark. Now you've
removed it, NM has taken over. That's just as in the first answer
(Stephen Kitt Jul 23, 2018 7:00), except for the minor detail that
Kitt mentions one should down the interface before moving /e/n/i
if one wants to make the change cleanly, without rebooting.

(Frequently, people forget that /e/n/i is reread by ifupdown
whenever you run its binaries; that's different from how many
other programs treat their configuration files.)

> 1. I have never touched the inside of that file.
> 2. I guess the real original file was from Debian 12. 

Not knowing the history of your installation, I wouldn't like
to guess exactly how NM and ifupdown arrived at your earlier
situation. But to answer the question posed in your OP,
there's no bug here—just two wifi configuration methods
being prioritised in accordance with their design.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Firefox

[ajh-valmer]

Je profite du sujet "firefox et avira",

j'avais signalé sur la ML qu'au bout de quelques minutes,
je ne peux plus me connecter à tous les sites (ça mouline).
J'ai découvert que ce phénomène se produit lorsque
je me connecte à des sites sponsorisés de la page d'accueil
qui finissent par tout bloquer.
Je ne vois pas dans Firefox ou choisir sa page d'accueil.

Bonne soirée.

Re: [resolu]: firefox et avira

[Haricophile]

Le Sat, 3 Feb 2024 20:47:37 +0100,
Basile Starynkevitch  a écrit :

> Un tel navigateur existe sous Debian. Par exemple dillo.
> 
> Librement

Il y en a un autre qui s'appelle Firefox pour peu qu'on le configure un
peu °<:P toutefois, et je le regrette aussi, sur le web où «le progrès
fait rage», c'est un peu compliqué de s'en passer. On est très loin du
HTML descripteur de page en mode texte «lisible par un humain» quoique
un peu tiré par les cheveux, et le temps où une page de 150Ko était
considérée comme lourde. Je ne suis pas sûr que le webassembly améliore
beaucoup la tendance.

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n...@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.

Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
localization experience.

If you're happy with your current keyboard, great.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2024 04 Feb 11:57 -0600, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 4 Feb 2024 11:36 -0600, from n...@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> >> Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.
> > 
> > I don't like their swapping of the right Alt and Menu keys unless the
> > keyboard can be configured to swap them back.
> 
> The keyboard doesn't care what's printed on the key caps; that should
> be purely a software configuration issue.
> 
> If you contact them and ask, they can probably tell you whether the
> key caps are of identical size for the two keys you have in mind for
> the particular keyboard configuration you're interested in, and thus
> can be flipped physically. Past that I expect it involves some Xmodmap
> trickery (or maybe treachery) to flip the mapping of the scan codes.

xmodmap trickery?  I am running GNOME on Wayland.  Maybe this
combination has a way to remap keys but that's not something I've been
inclined to do.  The daskeyboard suits me fine and I plan to just stick
with it.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Michael Kjörling]

On 4 Feb 2024 11:36 -0600, from n...@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
>> Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.
> 
> I don't like their swapping of the right Alt and Menu keys unless the
> keyboard can be configured to swap them back.

The keyboard doesn't care what's printed on the key caps; that should
be purely a software configuration issue.

If you contact them and ask, they can probably tell you whether the
key caps are of identical size for the two keys you have in mind for
the particular keyboard configuration you're interested in, and thus
can be flipped physically. Past that I expect it involves some Xmodmap
trickery (or maybe treachery) to flip the mapping of the scan codes.

-- 
Michael Kjörling  https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[songbird]

hw wrote:
> On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:09 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>> [...]
>> I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
>> the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
>> adapter so I gave up on them.
>
> They might work with a so-called active adapter.  IIRC it has
> something to do with the adpater suppling power.  With some research
> and an investment of like $5, you can probably still use your
> keyboards.
>
> Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.
>
> I'm using one right now (with 122 keys), and among all the different
> keyboards I used over the last 40 years, I've never found anything
> better than these buckling spring ones.

  if they made them with a metal base mine would probably
still be working, but the plastic base is too flexible for
me.  i have two dead ones.  :(  the pressure fitted ribbon
cable connection is a really bad design and those plastic
tabs break off.

  otherwise the feel is good.  very loud when i'm writing...


  songbird

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2024 04 Feb 04:23 -0600, hw wrote:
> On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:09 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > [...]
> > I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
> > the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
> > adapter so I gave up on them.
> 
> They might work with a so-called active adapter.  IIRC it has
> something to do with the adpater suppling power.  With some research
> and an investment of like $5, you can probably still use your
> keyboards.

As I use GNOME, I need the left menu key as I have the hotspot disabled
to open the overview.  My old Model Ms lack that key.

> Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.

I don't like their swapping of the right Alt and Menu keys unless the
keyboard can be configured to swap them back.  Otherwise, I would prefer
the right Menu key in that position be removed and that area given back
to the Space bar.  I don't find any documentation on their Web site
about that capability.

I do like about the Daskeyboard is that instead of being the right Menu
key that key is a Function key much like a laptop and it activates media
control keys on several of the function keys.  It's quite handy to raise
or lower the speaker volume when playing a video full screen.

> I'm using one right now (with 122 keys), and among all the different
> keyboards I used over the last 40 years, I've never found anything
> better than these buckling spring ones.

No question.  The M is the ultimate but unless someone can point me to a
document that shows swapping those two keys, I won't be buying.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



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Re: script/history

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2024 at 04:01:29PM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
> It seemed to me initially (as I should perhaps have stated) that man script 
> was suggesting that csh was a component or depedency (of script), which 
> seemed to be contradicted by it not being installed.  On reflection, 
> possibly, it's just a way of doing things in script.  The reference in man 
> script now seems to imply the latter.  
> 
> The fact that script scripts bash on my machine made me not think about the 
> fact that it probably scripts whatever shell it's running from, and was 
> doubtless written with one in mind/as inspiration - csh might make a certain 
> sense in that respect.  
> 
> script runs in bash if run from csh run from bash, but I suppose csh in that 
> chain of shells isn't a proper [do I mean login?] shell.  (Got that? :p)

You're so confused that I can't even figure out where to start!  So
let me start here:

The script(1) utility exists to RECORD a session so that you can play
it back later and see what happened.

One recommended use of this tool is to record the session in which you
do a dist-upgrade, say, from Debian 11 to Debian 12.  Then if anything
goes wrong, you can look back through the session's logfile and see
what happened, and try to fix it.

The script(1) utility has NOTHING to do with running ordinary shell
scripts.

Re: Bug: Tab completion for pdf files with blanks in path

[Max Nikulin]

On 30/01/2024 12:50, David Wright wrote:

On 30/01/2024 02:51, David Wright wrote:

. Press HOME,
. Type any letter that makes a "wrong" command name (eg aokular),
. Press END,

[...]

However, using my "wrong" command method, Tab Tab lists are complete
all the way down the path. You can then correct the command in order
to prune the Tab Tab listing to include just the candidates
(and in preparation for actually executing the command, of course).


I used a trick with a non-existing command till I figured out that 
[Alt+/] may complete paths for real commands. Pressed twice it gives 
list of candidates, so I do not see any difference from Tab Tab. Perhaps 
I just use it rarely enough, so I believe that moving cursor is less 
convenient. 2 keys instead of single Tab is not a problem, anyway I use 
[Ctrl+/] (undo) frequently enough.


Concerning the bug, maybe upstream is aware of it
https://github.com/scop/bash-completion/issues

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[Richmond]

hw  writes:

> On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:09 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>> [...]
>> I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
>> the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
>> adapter so I gave up on them.
>
> They might work with a so-called active adapter.  IIRC it has
> something to do with the adpater suppling power.  With some research
> and an investment of like $5, you can probably still use your
> keyboards.
>

Yes, I am using an IBM keyboard right now via usb into a laptop, with
this adapter:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07FLD3T8T

Re: script/history

[Gareth Evans]

On Sun 04/02/2024 at 13:24, Max Nikulin  wrote:
> On 04/02/2024 16:46, Gareth Evans wrote:
>> Re the script command, does anyone know of a way to make commands run during 
>> a script session appear in bash history too?
> [...]
>> man script says
>> 
>> "SEE ALSO
>> csh(1) (for the history mechanism)"
>> 
>> but
>> 
>> $ man csh
>> No manual entry for csh
>
>  echo $SHELL
>
> If you really use BASH then install bash-doc, it contains manual in 
> various formats, including texinfo (info "bash") or read it online
> https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/
> it describes some options related to history handling Actually "man 
> bash" is something rather close, but it does not allow to save links to 
> specific sections.

Hi Max,

Thanks for links and suggestions.

It seemed to me initially (as I should perhaps have stated) that man script was 
suggesting that csh was a component or depedency (of script), which seemed to 
be contradicted by it not being installed.  On reflection, possibly, it's just 
a way of doing things in script.  The reference in man script now seems to 
imply the latter.  

The fact that script scripts bash on my machine made me not think about the 
fact that it probably scripts whatever shell it's running from, and was 
doubtless written with one in mind/as inspiration - csh might make a certain 
sense in that respect.  

script runs in bash if run from csh run from bash, but I suppose csh in that 
chain of shells isn't a proper [do I mean login?] shell.  (Got that? :p)

The function of the "a" option in History Substitution in man csh seems 
different in the bash version.(under "Word Designators" in man bash/gnu online 
manual)

It'll be interesting to test when I can make sense of it :p

Anyway, my orginal question has been answered.

Thanks all.
Gareth

Re: Network Problem: Redirection

[Gremlin]

On 2/4/24 09:03, Marco Moock wrote:

Am 04.02.2024 um 07:12:50 Uhr schrieb Gremlin:


I also slay all the mDNS non sense.


mDNS works fine if the host names are properly set and no other way of
setting the addresses (Unicast DNS, /etc/hosts) is being used.



It is not needed if the network is setup correctly with DNS.

Re: Network Problem: Redirection

[Marco Moock]

Am 04.02.2024 um 07:12:50 Uhr schrieb Gremlin:

> I also slay all the mDNS non sense.

mDNS works fine if the host names are properly set and no other way of
setting the addresses (Unicast DNS, /etc/hosts) is being used.

-- 
kind regards
Marco

Spam und Werbung bitte an ichschickerekl...@cartoonies.org

Re: script/history

[hw]

Oh you're right, I entirely overlooked the usage of 'script' and
didn't understand the question right, sorry.

On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 06:28 -0500, Michael Grant wrote:
> > $ script foo.txt
> > Script started, output log file is 'foo.txt'.
> > $ date
> > Sun  4 Feb 09:44:00 GMT 2024
> > $ exit
> > exit
> > Script done.
> > $ history|tail -n2
> > 30797  2024-02-04 09:43:57  script foo.txt
> > 30798  2024-02-04 09:44:21  history|tail -n2
> > 
> > I did try to search on this but just got lots of "bash history" and 
> > "history in
> > bash script" references.
> 
> So this might surprise you but the commands are actually in the
> history list!  But not in the current shell.
> 
> What happens is this:
> 
> You start 'script foo.txt' and this starts a sub bash shell on a
> different pseudo tty.  You run some commands, it appends each command
> to the history of this sub-shell's history.
> 
> You then exit your script.  Those commands you ran are at the bottom
> of .bash_history (try to cat that file out after you exit script and
> you should see them).
> 
> But those commands are not sucked into the history of your current
> shell.  Then, you log out (or exit) your current shell and the history
> of that shell overwrites the history of the previous one.
> 
> If all you want to do is save off the commands after you exit your
> script session, then simply move or copy .bash_history out of the way
> before it gets overwritten.
> 
> You might consider setting $HISTFILE to some other location other than
> .bash_history.
> 
> Michael Grant

Re: script/history

[Max Nikulin]

On 04/02/2024 16:46, Gareth Evans wrote:

Re the script command, does anyone know of a way to make commands run during a 
script session appear in bash history too?

[...]

man script says

"SEE ALSO
csh(1) (for the history mechanism)"

but

$ man csh
No manual entry for csh


echo $SHELL

If you really use BASH then install bash-doc, it contains manual in 
various formats, including texinfo (info "bash") or read it online

https://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/
it describes some options related to history handling Actually "man 
bash" is something rather close, but it does not allow to save links to 
specific sections.

Re: script/history

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Feb 04, 2024 at 09:46:09AM +, Gareth Evans wrote:
> man script says 
> 
> "SEE ALSO
>csh(1) (for the history mechanism)"
> 
> but
> 
> $ man csh
> No manual entry for csh

I'm so glad that we're entering an era where it's normal *not* to have
csh installed and used.  That shell really was a disaster.

Anyway, if you want to read man pages for packages that are not installed
on your system, the World Wide Web is a good source.

Specifically, you could start with
 and see where that takes you.

Re: install Kernel and GRUB in chroot.

[Max Nikulin]

On 03/02/2024 22:32, Dmitry wrote:

2. sudo bash


sudo -i


3. cd /boot/efi/EFI/Mangaro
4. strings grubx64.efi
5. And at the output of strings there is UUID and /boot/grub.


I am unsure what UUID you mean.

Summary: GRUB installation not only involves configuration of text 
files, but

also it involves generating data in binary grubx64.efi.


It would not work with secure boot

md5sum /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi 
/usr/lib/grub/x86_64-efi-signed/grubx64.efi.signed

62ff1ee5b75b4565f609043c4b1da759  /boot/efi/EFI/debian/grubx64.efi
62ff1ee5b75b4565f609043c4b1da759 
/usr/lib/grub/x86_64-efi-signed/grubx64.efi.signed

Re: Network Problem: Redirection

[Gremlin]

On 2/4/24 02:39, Marco Moock wrote:

Am 02.02.2024 um 17:12:06 Uhr schrieb Gremlin:


On 2/2/24 16:28, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Fri, Feb 02, 2024 at 02:03:46PM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:

root@hawk:~# host samba
samba.localdomain is an alias for hawk.localdomain.
hawk.localdomain has address 192.168.100.6


host(1) looks in DNS only.  It doesn't do the standard name
resolution that applications do.
   


host gremlin
gremlin.home.arpa has address 192.168.1.4
gremlin.home.arpa has IPv6 address fe80::a940:6c49:a620:4c09


You have to check from where the other IP address comes.



What other IP addresses.

His "problem" could have been resolved by properly setting up a DNS 
server. I also slay all the mDNS non sense.


# /etc/nsswitch.conf
#
# Example configuration of GNU Name Service Switch functionality.
# If you have the `glibc-doc-reference' and `info' packages installed, try:
# `info libc "Name Service Switch"' for information about this file.

passwd: files
group:  files
shadow: files
gshadow:files

hosts:  files  dns
networks:   files

protocols:  db files
services:   db files
ethers: db files
rpc:db files

netgroup:   nis

Re: Network Problem: Redirection

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 16:47 -0700, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 15:52:41 -0700
> Charles Curley  wrote:
> 
> > But I don't think that will solve the routing problem.
> 
> Well, I was wrong. That did solve the routing problems.
> 
> I moved the apt-proxy line for the VMs' benefit into a VM's /etc/hosts
> and took it out of hawk's /etc/hosts. samba is now an alias in the
> virtual zone, so I don't need that line at all.
> 
> Thanks, Greg, for spotting that. Sometimes I'm dense. It took me a
> while to realize what you were getting at.
> 

This is not a routing problem in the first place.

If you have a DNS server configured that can resolve for you LAN(s)
(like you should), you don't need to (and should not) change anything
in /etc/hosts.  When you specify different addresses for the same host
at arbitrary places, you're likely to create confusion, especially
when you're using addresses that are supposed to have the same
meaning.  If you need to specify different names for the same host,
use CNAME records.  If you need to specify different addresses for the
same host, use different host names (at least I don't have a better
idea for that).

If you have vlans in use, make sure the addresses in the networks do
not overlap.  Otherwise your networks may not be as virtual as you
think, vlans or not, and you may create something that looks like a
routing problem.  If you're not using vlans and want virtual netwoks,
it's probably a very good idea to use vlans (and to use routing if
desirable and necessary).

Re: script/history

[Michael Grant]

> $ script foo.txt
> Script started, output log file is 'foo.txt'.
> $ date
> Sun  4 Feb 09:44:00 GMT 2024
> $ exit
> exit
> Script done.
> $ history|tail -n2
> 30797  2024-02-04 09:43:57  script foo.txt
> 30798  2024-02-04 09:44:21  history|tail -n2
> 
> I did try to search on this but just got lots of "bash history" and "history 
> in
> bash script" references.

So this might surprise you but the commands are actually in the
history list!  But not in the current shell.

What happens is this:

You start 'script foo.txt' and this starts a sub bash shell on a
different pseudo tty.  You run some commands, it appends each command
to the history of this sub-shell's history.

You then exit your script.  Those commands you ran are at the bottom
of .bash_history (try to cat that file out after you exit script and
you should see them).

But those commands are not sucked into the history of your current
shell.  Then, you log out (or exit) your current shell and the history
of that shell overwrites the history of the previous one.

If all you want to do is save off the commands after you exit your
script session, then simply move or copy .bash_history out of the way
before it gets overwritten.

You might consider setting $HISTFILE to some other location other than
.bash_history.

Michael Grant


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Description: PGP signature

Re: script/history

[hw]

On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 09:46 +, Gareth Evans wrote:
> Re the script command, does anyone know of a way to make commands
> run during a script session appear in bash history too?

Maybe this:
https://serverfault.com/questions/16204/how-to-make-bash-scripts-print-out-every-command-before-it-executes

It seems awkward to have scripts being put into the history.  You
could do something like

cat script.sh >> ~/.bash_history

maybe.  How would that be useful?

Re: what keyboard do you use?

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:25 -0500, Lee wrote:
> [...]
> I figure there's a high percentage of keyboard jockeys here so ..
> which keyboard do you like and why?

It comes down to your personal preference and on how much you're
willing to pay for a good keybard.  I'm using [1].

I'm using it because I'm finding these buckling spring keyboards the
best variant to type on.  I've never found anything better in the last
40 years.

They also have the advantage that they have a decent size not only for
the keys and their spacing, but also for the housing which is designed
so you can put stuff like pencils on it.

The ones from IBM are so old that they're usually somewhat worn out.
They also have become difficult to get and expensive.  Unless you can
find a new old stock and are willing to pay for it, you're better off
getting one from Unicomp.

I even got a new Model M a couple years ago for a steal, and I still
have it.  I like the Unicomp better because of the extra keys without
which I wouldn't know what to do, and it feels a little better to type
on than the Model M.

As an alternative, you could look for a Cherry G80.  Apparently they
don't make them anymore (And I wouldn't buy anything of what they show
on their web site now.).  It's a pity since they were acceptable
keyboards if you like their switches and if you could get one for a
decent price.  They were built cheaply and somewhat wobbly, and I
don't like that cheapness at all, but the money was in the switches.
When you have one have on your desk for typing it's fine.  The
switches are good (though I don't particularly like them, but that's
personal preference) and not in any way cheap or wobbly.

I would like Outemu switches way better than the Cherry ones if the
Outemu ones weren't so wobbly.  They give me nicer feedback while the
Cherry switches feel like nothing (perhaps that's intentional), and
I'm finding their way of travel too small while the Outemu switches
seem to travel a little further.  If you can find a keyboard with
Outemus, it might be worth a try.

Stay away from these so-called 'gaming keyboards'.  Everything that's
labled 'gaming' is usually either incompatible, otherwise bad, or
overpriced, or all of that at the same time.  So if you find a 'gaming
keyboard' at least make sure it's compatible before buying.


[1]:
https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD_Code=UB40B5A

Nettoyage du spam : janvier 2024

[Étienne Mollier]

Bonjour,

Nous sommes à présent en févier, il est donc désormais possible
de traiter les archives du mois de janvier 2024 des listes de
diffusion francophones.

Comme toujours, n'oubliez pas d'ajouter votre nom à la liste des
relecteurs pour que nous sachions où nous en sommes.

Les détails du processus de nettoyage du spam sont disponibles
sur la page wiki dédiée [1].

[1] : https://wiki.debian.org/I18n/FrenchSpamClean

Bon dimanche,  :)
-- 
  .''`.  Étienne Mollier 
 : :' :  pgp: 8f91 b227 c7d6 f2b1 948c  8236 793c f67e 8f0d 11da
 `. `'   sent from /dev/pts/1, please excuse my verbosity
   `-


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Re: what keyboard do you use?

[hw]

On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:09 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> [...]
> I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in
> the '90s.  Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB
> adapter so I gave up on them.

They might work with a so-called active adapter.  IIRC it has
something to do with the adpater suppling power.  With some research
and an investment of like $5, you can probably still use your
keyboards.

Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB.

I'm using one right now (with 122 keys), and among all the different
keyboards I used over the last 40 years, I've never found anything
better than these buckling spring ones.


[1]: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD

script/history

[Gareth Evans]

Re the script command, does anyone know of a way to make commands run during a 
script session appear in bash history too?  

$ script foo.txt
Script started, output log file is 'foo.txt'.
$ date
Sun  4 Feb 09:44:00 GMT 2024
$ exit
exit
Script done.
$ history|tail -n2
30797  2024-02-04 09:43:57  script foo.txt
30798  2024-02-04 09:44:21  history|tail -n2

I did try to search on this but just got lots of "bash history" and "history in 
bash script" references.

man script says 

"SEE ALSO
   csh(1) (for the history mechanism)"

but

$ man csh
No manual entry for csh

Thanks
Gareth