Re: [digitalradio] Re: QRV ALE special group
I made an attempt to call on the 80 meter frequencies, but I need to solve a nasty little RFI problem with a smoke alarm before going any further :-p. philw de ka1gmn On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Andy obrien k3uka...@gmail.com wrote: I have now added 3584 and 3596 US6 to my scan for the evening. Andy K3UK On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Andy obrien k3uka...@gmail.comk3ukandy%40gmail.com wrote: I have modified my ALE station and during daylight hours I will be scanning the following channels while in the shack most of the day (I'll add 80M later tonight) 7074 USB *7102 USB *10145.5 USB 14074 USB *14109USB * denotes standard ALE data channels commonly used by ALE stations The 14074 and 7074 frequencies are not typically monitored by ALE stations but are often used by digital mode enthusiasts for modes other than PSK31 or RTTY. I am prosing that members of this group use 7074 and 14074 using standard ALE and make occasion calls on these frequencies in attended mode . So far thjis morning I have seen [16:44:12][FRQ 10145500][SND][ ][TWS][WB6MZS ][AL0] BER 17 SN 03 (note a decode with weak signals) [16:12:01][FRQ 10145500][SND][ ][TWS][KM4BA ][AL0] BER 30 SN 06 [16:11:02][FRQ 07102000][SND][ ][TWS][WD8ARZ ][AL0] BER 26 SN 08 and surprise visitor to my station [16:44:48][FRQ 14109000][LINKED ][KA1GMN ] [16:50:28][FRQ 14109000][TO ][K3UK ][TIS][KA1GMN ][AL0] BER 28 SN 06 Who found me while I was scanning at one channel every two seconds, well done Phil. You disappeared though. I will monitor all of the listed frequencies and welcome calls. Will switch to other modes as needed after the initial link. Andy K3UK Fredonia, NY.
Re: [digitalradio] Which radio ?
Andy obrien wrote: I have not used the rigs u mentioned and am not sure what their cost is.. but I would also mention the TS2000 and Kenwood TS480 as radios you might want to look at . The Icom 7000 may also be worth a look too. Welcome back to the hobby! Where is High Peak ? You're not on top of Ben Nevis, I hope. Andy K3UK On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 6:02 AM, Ted Wager t...@trufflesdad.plus.com mailto:t...@trufflesdad.plus.com wrote: I am returning to amateur radio after 15 years qrt and looking for a new radio Main interests are listening hf and digi modes, principally psk..My choice is down to either the yaesu ft450 or the Yaesu ft-857d.Any comments on my choice welcome and should I look at any other radios ? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZXZqbjZpBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjU4ODAyMTc1 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ mailto:digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=unsubscribe Thanks to all who replied to my query and for Andy High Peak is North Derbyshire where it usually rains :-( -- Regards Ted Wager High Peak UK Suggested frequencies for calling CQ with experimental digital modes = 3584,10147, 14074 USB on your dial plus 1000Hz on waterfall. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Getting serious about ALE for non-encomm digital hamming
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Lindecker f6...@... wrote: Hello, Once an effective, simple and robust SELCAL standard is developed (again IMHO it should be a logical extension of the existing RSID and Call ID standards) it could eventually be parlayed into a more modern and effective variant of ALE. By using RR for the nice SELCAL idea. I'm not sure it would be very easy if you need a symetrical acknowledgment. If it is only a one way transmission without any double acknowledgment it is much more easy. RS ID and CALL ID are public sources. So... One way would do it. To use an analogy, you ring the phone and the operator decides if he wants to pick up. With RSID, Call ID and SELCAL combined the called station would know he's being called, who's calling and on what mode and freq. Just like RSID, allow the alert to be ignored or allow the alert to cause the station to be put on the right mode and freq. Just like RSID the operator answers manually. By the way, is there currently a mechanism for monitoring the 3KHz passband for a certain Call ID and only alarming on that?
Re: [digitalradio] Which radio ?
Ted Wager wrote: Thanks to all who replied to my query and for Andy High Peak is North Derbyshire where it usually rains :-( I often have to drive through the High Peaks to get across the Pennines from my home in Bolsover. Through places with names like Chappel-en-le-Frith and Dove Holes. Beautiful at some times of the year, however driving rain and fog on the tops are not so much fun... Dave (G0DJA) Suggested frequencies for calling CQ with experimental digital modes = 3584,10147, 14074 USB on your dial plus 1000Hz on waterfall. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Which radio ?
Dave Ackrill wrote: Ted Wager wrote: Thanks to all who replied to my query and for Andy High Peak is North Derbyshire where it usually rains :-( I often have to drive through the High Peaks to get across the Pennines from my home in Bolsover. Through places with names like Chappel-en-le-Frith and Dove Holes. Beautiful at some times of the year, however driving rain and fog on the tops are not so much fun... Dave (G0DJA) Ok Dave Dove Holes is a terrible place..Very bleak...I live in New Mills off the a6..We are at the 800ft level so quite unlikely to flood..Hopefully.. -- Regards Ted Wager High Peak UK Suggested frequencies for calling CQ with experimental digital modes = 3584,10147, 14074 USB on your dial plus 1000Hz on waterfall. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] 13 pin DIN plug switch box?
Hello Tony, Your not going to find one of those type of boxes. They just don't exist. You can build one easily. Go to your local thrift shop and pick up a RS232 switch box use for switching printers used in the past. It contains the switch that you need and the box.also. Buy a pair of 13 pin Din receptacles, plug, wire and some solder. Can't be much easier than that. 73 Gary WB6BNE - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 8:45 PM Subject: [digitalradio] 13 pin DIN plug switch box? All, Does anyone know where I can find a 13 pin DIN plug switch box? I use the ACC2 socket on my Kenwood TS2000 to run sound card modes and connect my Kam Plus TNC. A switch would come in handy. Tony -K2MO
[digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor
Charles, Your constant efforts to spread disinformation about ALE use in ham radio shows how little you know about how hams are using ALE. If you are really concerned about lids on HF, start with the #1 primary source of QRM: contesters. Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Charles Brabham n5...@... wrote: The system was not designed for use on amateur radio's shared spectrum, and that is why it's use is not appropriate there.
Re: [digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor
Bonnie: I have not spread any disinformation about ALE anywhere. Take your personal attacks elsewhere. You bore me. 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL Prefer to use radio for your amateur radio communications? - Stop by at HamRadioNet.Org ! http://www.hamradionet.org - Original Message - From: expeditionradio To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor Charles, Your constant efforts to spread disinformation about ALE use in ham radio shows how little you know about how hams are using ALE. If you are really concerned about lids on HF, start with the #1 primary source of QRM: contesters. Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Charles Brabham n5...@... wrote: The system was not designed for use on amateur radio's shared spectrum, and that is why it's use is not appropriate there.
Re: [digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor
Charles, Your constant efforts to spread disinformation about ALE use in ham radio shows how little you know about how hams are using ALE. If you are really concerned about lids on HF, start with the #1 primary source of QRM: contesters. Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA That reminds me. During the CW Sweepstakes 2 weeks ago, I was trying to operate on ~7030 and bursts of RTTY-sounding stuff kept coming on the frequency for 5 or 10 seconds every once in a while. Is that ALE? Why am I as a contester QRM and that stuff is not QRM? Rick N6RK
Re: [digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor
OK all put a stop to this. John, W0JAB moderator
Re: [digitalradio] 13 pin DIN plug switch box?
I would go with a db-25 printer switch that way you have access to all pins even if they are not all used. If you can become a member of one of your local Freecycle mail groups, you post that your looking for a couple. I did that a month ago and was given two units to use. Plans are for them to be used to switch between radios so as to use one microphone for all and save the other microphones as spares. James W8ISS = On Monday 23 November 2009 11:06:03 Gary A. Hinton wrote: Hello Tony, Your not going to find one of those type of boxes. They just don't exist. You can build one easily. Go to your local thrift shop and pick up a RS232 switch box use for switching printers used in the past. It contains the switch that you need and the box.also. Buy a pair of 13 pin Din receptacles, plug, wire and some solder. Can't be much easier than that. 73 Gary WB6BNE - Original Message - From: Tony To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 8:45 PM Subject: [digitalradio] 13 pin DIN plug switch box? All, Does anyone know where I can find a 13 pin DIN plug switch box? I use the ACC2 socket on my Kenwood TS2000 to run sound card modes and connect my Kam Plus TNC. A switch would come in handy. Tony -K2MO Suggested frequencies for calling CQ with experimental digital modes = 3584,10147, 14074 USB on your dial plus 1000Hz on waterfall. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Re: Getting serious about ALE for non-encomm digital hamming
Hello, One way would do it. To use an analogy, you ring the phone and the operator decides if he wants to pick up. With RSID, Call OK I see the analogy. By the way, is there currently a mechanism for monitoring the 3KHz passband for a certain Call ID and only alarming on that? Yes there are several options (monitoring, automatic spot...). The covered bandwidth can be 2.5, 3.3, 4.3 or 44 KHz on a SdR. I have modified a bit the Call ID source to integrate a small message ID (possibility to send small messages (9 characters max) readable on the waterfall). 73 Patrick - Original Message - From: aa777888athotmaildotcom aa777...@hotmail.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:51 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Getting serious about ALE for non-encomm digital hamming --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Lindecker f6...@... wrote: Hello, Once an effective, simple and robust SELCAL standard is developed (again IMHO it should be a logical extension of the existing RSID and Call ID standards) it could eventually be parlayed into a more modern and effective variant of ALE. By using RR for the nice SELCAL idea. I'm not sure it would be very easy if you need a symetrical acknowledgment. If it is only a one way transmission without any double acknowledgment it is much more easy. RS ID and CALL ID are public sources. So... One way would do it. To use an analogy, you ring the phone and the operator decides if he wants to pick up. With RSID, Call ID and SELCAL combined the called station would know he's being called, who's calling and on what mode and freq. Just like RSID, allow the alert to be ignored or allow the alert to cause the station to be put on the right mode and freq. Just like RSID the operator answers manually. By the way, is there currently a mechanism for monitoring the 3KHz passband for a certain Call ID and only alarming on that? Suggested frequencies for calling CQ with experimental digital modes = 3584,10147, 14074 USB on your dial plus 1000Hz on waterfall. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor
Bonnie, sitting on the side, I see both sides of this. You, on one hand, always appear to be pushing expansion of new modes (which is good in some respect - that's what makes for advancements in science), but on the other hand, you appear to always want to push other users away, with broader bands, higher speeds, and be dammed with any mode you do not want to use. I haven't been reading much of your output this past year, because I truly got tired of seeing that, particularly when you seem to just ignore the expense of present users. I would like to remind you that many of us have, over and over, been the victim of some digital mode popping up on a busy frequency, and driving us off. You could make a great contribution to acceptance of these new modes, if you would just step up and agree that it happens, and that the contributors (program writers) should write in for busy frequency checking of the bands, before transmitting their own signal. We already require this of CW/SSB/RTTY/PSK etc. users. Why should a user of these higher-newer modes not be held to the same requirements? With your knowledge and experience you can make a great contribution here, but really need to help cut back on the push to allow interference to others, for advancement to techonology. Please give this some thought. And by the way, contesters are a very main reason for advancement of technology in antennas and hardware - and they have been here a long time. ( I agree, they too should be limited to set sub-bands within the spectrum, but that is unlikely to happen because the sponsors are quite unwilling to accept the facts of their interference to other users). Danny Douglas N7DC ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB All 2 years or more (except Novice). Short stints at: DA/PA/SU/HZ/7X/DU CR9/7Y/KH7/5A/GW/GM/F Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred, I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for those who do. Moderator DXandTALK http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk Digital_modes http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159 - Original Message - From: expeditionradio To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:23 AM Subject: [digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor Charles, Your constant efforts to spread disinformation about ALE use in ham radio shows how little you know about how hams are using ALE. If you are really concerned about lids on HF, start with the #1 primary source of QRM: contesters. Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Charles Brabham n5...@... wrote: The system was not designed for use on amateur radio's shared spectrum, and that is why it's use is not appropriate there.
Re: [digitalradio] 13 pin DIN plug switch box?
Gary A. Hinton wrote: Hello Tony, Your not going to find one of those type of boxes. They just don't exist. You can build one easily. Go to your local thrift shop and pick up a RS232 switch box use for switching printers used in the past. It contains the switch that you need and the box.also. Buy a pair of 13 pin Din receptacles, plug, wire and some solder. Can't be much easier than that. 73 Gary WB6BNE A viable approach, however, I have decided for my station to make everything controllable from the computer. So instead of mechanical switches, I always use relays. I also convert all connectors to D-subminiature or 3 conductor 3.5 mm stereo jacks. So what I would do is buy a cable with a 13 pin DIN plug on it and wire a DB-25 to the other end. The box would have a DB-25 and two DE-9's. The DE-9's would connect to the ancillary equipment (assuming that no individual piece of equipment needs more than 9 of the 13 pins). The control for the relay bank would be via a 3 conductor 3.5 mm jack. I can get cheap 3.5 mm patch cables and D-sub cables at the swap meet. Rick N6RK
Re: [digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor
DANNY DOUGLAS wrote: Bonnie, sitting on the side, I see both sides of this. You, on one hand, always appear to be pushing expansion of new modes - Original Message - From: expeditionradio If you are really concerned about lids on HF, start with the #1 primary source of QRM: contesters. I'm no fan of the way in which many contest stations seem to use, and abuse, the band plans, but neither am I a fan of digital modes that, maybe unintentionally at times, trample upon other legitimate users of the bands either... Unfortunately, legislating against either abuse is both unlikely to work and probably impossible to implement. Personally, I would like the organisers of the various contests to enforce their own rules against persistent offenders. However, experience over many years suggests that they either will not, or dare not, do this, which begs the question why have the rules? I would prefer that the DX community did not trample on top of people at times, and listen before they transmitted and I would like the Band Police to not transmit over the top of what they think should, or should not, be done on a frequency. I would also like the ALE and digital community to recognise that they share the bands with everyone else and are not immune from the 'listen before use' rule either. However, these are just my 'would like to have' and are obviously not shared by the majority, as they do not happen. Dave (G0DJA)
[digitalradio] 7030 QRM
Rick, not likely . ALE mostly uses 7040500 7065000 7099500 7102000 7110500 7185500 7296000 With 7102 in North America as the one with digital data signals. Andy K3UK On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.comwrote: Charles, Your constant efforts to spread disinformation about ALE use in ham radio shows how little you know about how hams are using ALE. If you are really concerned about lids on HF, start with the #1 primary source of QRM: contesters. Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA That reminds me. During the CW Sweepstakes 2 weeks ago, I was trying to operate on ~7030 and bursts of RTTY-sounding stuff kept coming on the frequency for 5 or 10 seconds every once in a while. Is that ALE? Why am I as a contester QRM and that stuff is not QRM? Rick N6RK
[digitalradio] Moderator comments : Listen-Don't listen
Before we go down the path of debating listen first or not. I will remind folks that most of the argument has been stated before. Aside from the legalities of the issue, there are camps that strongly advocate that every hams should also listen first and not transmit if the frequency is busy, and those that feel some modes have such short initial identifying bursts that listening first is not necessary , and perhaps antiquated. I think we should acknowledge both viewpoints, without dragging the issue on and on. What I do feel needs pointing out is that if you take the first position, that one should always check a frequency and inquire if it is free, logical would dictate that this applies to all aspects of hams radio including contests. A contester that calls CQ Contest without QRL is as guilty as an ALE or Packet station. Since I am a contester, I might argue that although the frequency is crowed, I think my signal can fit next to others without undue QRM. That might not be that much different than a Propnet station that fires up 32 hz away from me. I may think it annoying but they might feel I should be able to operate with a close neighbour. Feel free to share your opinion on the matter but do so with respect for other opinions. In the scheme of things , whether one believes in QRL first or not, does not make the person with contrary views in to a evil dastardly person. We just differ. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] 7030 QRM
Andy obrien wrote: Rick, not likely . ALE mostly uses 7040500 7065000 7099500 7102000 7110500 7185500 7296000 Actually, now that I think about it, I was trying to use 7040. Rick N6RK
Re: [digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor
Good point Skip, in this modern era with cabrillo files, it should be easy to do. On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:37 PM, KH6TY kh...@comcast.net wrote: There are VHF contests that are limited to only certain bands out of all available. There are HF contests for just phone, or CW or RTTY, so it should be no problem for HF contest sponsors to only allow credit for Q's made between certain frequencies on each band. That would be on the honor system, or might require logging a certain frequency instead of just a band, but maybe that would be a way to reserve some space for other activities (IF there could be agreement on what space to reserve!:-) ). Just a thought... Skip KH6TY
Re: [digitalradio] 7030 QRM
I'm still guessing it was not ALE. On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.comwrote: Andy obrien wrote: Rick, not likely . ALE mostly uses 7040500 7065000 7099500 7102000 7110500 7185500 7296000 Actually, now that I think about it, I was trying to use 7040. Rick N6RK
Re: [digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor
Wow another rant. I don't care for contesting, but they are not the only QRM on the band. ALE can be, Winlids for sure but wait lets bring up cw and ssb, and of course AM, this is even during a contest. QRM is a way of life, get over it. KT --- On Mon, 11/23/09, expeditionradio expeditionra...@yahoo.com wrote: From: expeditionradio expeditionra...@yahoo.com Subject: [digitalradio] Disinformation about ALE by N5PVL Re: Getting serious about ALE / LID factor To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 10:23 AM Charles, Your constant efforts to spread disinformation about ALE use in ham radio shows how little you know about how hams are using ALE. If you are really concerned about lids on HF, start with the #1 primary source of QRM: contesters. Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA --- In digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com, Charles Brabham n5...@... wrote: The system was not designed for use on amateur radio's shared spectrum, and that is why it's use is not appropriate there.
Re: [digitalradio] 13 pin DIN plug switch box?
I built a box with lots on RCA jacks and got the 13P DIN breakout cable from MFJ. Add a couple of switches and be all set. Using the MFJ cable saves from having to solder pins on the high density 13 P DIN connector. LDG also sells a breakout box. Randy K7AGE
Re: [digitalradio] Moderator comments : Listen-Don't listen
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 6:57 PM, KH6TY kh...@comcast.net wrote: Andy, I must respectfully disagree. A contester who calls CQ Contest is usually doing it on a frequency that is clear at the moment (at least at his location). If you think you can fit between signals, you have already determined that space is clear, have you not? All this is quite different from an automated Propnet station, or ALE sounding, that has made no determination at all. After consideration, I acknowledge your point...it is different. Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Moderator comments : Listen-Don't listen
Unattended stations make no attempt to share at all, but assume the frequency is theirs whenever they want it, and actually they never know if it were clear or not, as they can just automatically transmit again until they are successful. This undermines the principle of shared frequencies, which is what Charles was trying to point out. Skip KH6TY but not ALE all stations (I can't speak for Propnet) are unattended.. I was in my shack at each sounding yesterday. Also, my ALE software pauses a scan and suddenly says listening for a few seconds before it transmits. It rarely prevents a transmit if the frequency is busy, but my brain causes a quick glance at the waterfall when I hear a scan stop (my rig makes a noise) and I can simply stop a transmit if the frequency is busy. The interesting thing is that the ALE data frequencies rarely busy . As I type this there is a Pactor station squawking away about 1500 Hz away but I went HOURS yesterday without having to stop an ALE transmit . Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] 13 pin DIN plug switch box?
I want one too! On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Tony d...@optonline.net wrote: All, Does anyone know where I can find a 13 pin DIN plug switch box? I use the ACC2 socket on my Kenwood TS2000 to run sound card modes and connect my Kam Plus TNC. A switch would come in handy. Tony -K2MO Rep d...@optonline.net?subject=13+pin+din+plug+switch+box?
Re: [digitalradio] Moderator comments : Listen-Don't listen
Andy obrien wrote: Before we go down the path of debating listen first or not. I will remind folks that most of the argument has been stated before. Aside from the legalities of the issue, there are camps that strongly advocate that every hams should also listen first and not transmit if the frequency is busy, and those that feel some modes have such short initial identifying bursts that listening first is not necessary , and perhaps antiquated. I think we should acknowledge both viewpoints, I would note that the noises on 7040 drove me off that frequency, and I suspect drove everyone else off that frequency, since the whole band was wall to wall signals except for that frequency. Any RF source that can hold a frequency like 7040 during a major contest cannot be considered inconsequential or de minimus as the lawyers like to say. Rick N6RK
Re: [digitalradio] 7030 QRM
OK, I give up. You don't seem able to make room for everyone. So, I'll sign out of all the WSPR and WSJT modes and will not recognise any of your modes. In the round, you may decide that I'm not worth worrying about. However, I will tell anyone who cares to ask about why I decided to tell people why WSPR and WSJT were not modes that seemed to be ones that I use... Suggested frequencies for calling CQ with experimental digital modes = 3584,10147, 14074 USB on your dial plus 1000Hz on waterfall. Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[digitalradio] Re: Moderator comments : Listen-Don't listen
Skip KH6TY wrote: A contester who calls CQ Contest is usually doing it on a frequency that is clear at the moment Hi Skip, What planet do you live on? :) I want to live there in that mythical land, where all contesters get to transmit on clear frequencies. Don't get me wrong, I am not anti contest, in fact, far from it. I was once a very active and avid contester. From experience, I can say without any doubt that successful contesting primarily boils down to who can QRM better and talk over top of all the other stations better. That is why the most successful contesters use high-powered amplifiers and large antenna arrays. The same goes for DX pileups. Basically, a pileup is simply a contest where the number of possible contacts is 1 and the number of possible multipliers is 1. Everyone who enters the pileup contest is trying to out-QRM the other entrants, or in FCC parlance... to harmfully interfere with, the other contestants in the pileup contest. They are trying to keep the other stations from working the target station, in favor of themselves. Louder, stronger, QRMer. Anyone who has listened or participated in contests knows that there will be QRM generated by the contest, and QRM/interference is just all part of the game. In fact, when you think about it, really... living with QRM and interference is part of life on HF. Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA
[digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands
I would also like the ALE and digital community to recognise that they share the bands with everyone else Dave (G0DJA) Hi Dave, While I can't speak for the whole digital community, I can probably speak with some authority for the ALE community... ALE operators have been sharing the ham bands for many many years without harmful interference. This is primarily due to the way that ALE has been adapted to amateur radio by hams, a protocol adaption known as ham-friendly ALE. 99% of ALE operation is in organised emcomm networks and 99% of the organised networks are operating in the internationally recogised HF automatic sub-bands, where automatic modes have been in use for many years. 73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA
[digitalradio] Re: Moderator comments : Listen-Don't listen
Bonnie your argument is some contesters and DXers QRM ongoing QSOs, so therefore its ok for ALL unattended stations to QRM ongoing QSOs. This is poor engineering; when we automate things, the idea is to automate good practice, not bad practice. You don't see anyone designing autopilots that can become disoriented, do you? And by the way, most DXers in a pileup do not seek to QRM each other, as that guarantees they won't be clearly heard by the DX -- even when using a powerful station. The idea is to seek clear spots in the pileup into which to drop your call so you can more likely be heard by the DX. This is particularly true in digital mode pileups. 73, Dave, AA6YQ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, expeditionradio expeditionra...@... wrote: Skip KH6TY wrote: A contester who calls CQ Contest is usually doing it on a frequency that is clear at the moment Hi Skip, What planet do you live on? :) I want to live there in that mythical land, where all contesters get to transmit on clear frequencies. Don't get me wrong, I am not anti contest, in fact, far from it. I was once a very active and avid contester. From experience, I can say without any doubt that successful contesting primarily boils down to who can QRM better and talk over top of all the other stations better. That is why the most successful contesters use high-powered amplifiers and large antenna arrays. The same goes for DX pileups. Basically, a pileup is simply a contest where the number of possible contacts is 1 and the number of possible multipliers is 1. Everyone who enters the pileup contest is trying to out-QRM the other entrants, or in FCC parlance... to harmfully interfere with, the other contestants in the pileup contest. They are trying to keep the other stations from working the target station, in favor of themselves. Louder, stronger, QRMer. Anyone who has listened or participated in contests knows that there will be QRM generated by the contest, and QRM/interference is just all part of the game. In fact, when you think about it, really... living with QRM and interference is part of life on HF. Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA
Re: [digitalradio] 13 pin DIN plug switch box?
Look at the MFJ-1272B/M TNC Microphone Switch. I have no idea if it is what you are looking for, or if it would work, but Don KA5DON
[digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands
During an emergency, no one has a problem ceding frequencies to emcomm stations; its like heading for the shoulder when you hear an ambulance while driving. When there's no emergency underway, however, the automatic bands are available to all amateur stations, not just unattended stations. Its no more acceptable for unattended stations to QRM ongoing QSOs in the automatic bands than it is to QRM them anywhere else within the amateur spectrum. 73, Dave, AA6YQ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, expeditionradio expeditionra...@... wrote: I would also like the ALE and digital community to recognise that they share the bands with everyone else Dave (G0DJA) Hi Dave, While I can't speak for the whole digital community, I can probably speak with some authority for the ALE community... ALE operators have been sharing the ham bands for many many years without harmful interference. This is primarily due to the way that ALE has been adapted to amateur radio by hams, a protocol adaption known as ham-friendly ALE. 99% of ALE operation is in organised emcomm networks and 99% of the organised networks are operating in the internationally recogised HF automatic sub-bands, where automatic modes have been in use for many years. 73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA
Re: [digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands
Bonnie, Just a point... I don't believe the HF automatic sub bands are internationally recognized. To my knowledge it is only the FCC in the US that has set up these automatic control sub bands. 73 Dave WB2FTX - Original Message - From: expeditionradio To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:21 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands I would also like the ALE and digital community to recognise that they share the bands with everyone else Dave (G0DJA) Hi Dave, While I can't speak for the whole digital community, I can probably speak with some authority for the ALE community... ALE operators have been sharing the ham bands for many many years without harmful interference. This is primarily due to the way that ALE has been adapted to amateur radio by hams, a protocol adaption known as ham-friendly ALE. 99% of ALE operation is in organised emcomm networks and 99% of the organised networks are operating in the internationally recogised HF automatic sub-bands, where automatic modes have been in use for many years. 73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.79/2522 - Release Date: 11/23/09 14:45:00
Re: [digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands
When there's no emergency underway, however, the automatic bands are available to all amateur stations, not just unattended stations. Its no more acceptable for unattended stations to QRM ongoing QSOs in the automatic bands than it is to QRM them anywhere else within the amateur spectrum. 73, Dave, AA6YQ Excuse me for being so dumb, Dave... what is the purpose for allowing unattended stations in a specific part of a band if they have to listen to make sure a frequency is clear? I don't get it. Also, am I wrong in thinking that unattended versus automatic means the same thing? Hmm, in thinking back to the days that all this may have started, packet days, I remember that my TNC would not transmit a packet if the TNC detected another station, it would wait a second or two. is this the difference , that unattended with busy detect is fine ? Andy K3UK
Re: [digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands
I agree 100% - and I operate an automated Packet station in one of the sub-bands. Fairly often, on weekends I see a good deal of RTTY contest activity there, and the RTTY guys have proven to be good nieghbors. I use MixW as an HF Packet modem, which allows me to open up a second or third window in RTTY mode and read the mail during the contests. Seeing how much fun those guys have, I've decided that if I ever get into contesting, it will be in RTTY mode first. 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL Prefer to use radio for your amateur radio communications? - Stop by at HamRadioNet.Org ! http://www.hamradionet.org - Original Message - From: aa6yq To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:34 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands During an emergency, no one has a problem ceding frequencies to emcomm stations; its like heading for the shoulder when you hear an ambulance while driving. When there's no emergency underway, however, the automatic bands are available to all amateur stations, not just unattended stations. Its no more acceptable for unattended stations to QRM ongoing QSOs in the automatic bands than it is to QRM them anywhere else within the amateur spectrum. 73, Dave, AA6YQ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, expeditionradio expeditionra...@... wrote: I would also like the ALE and digital community to recognise that they share the bands with everyone else Dave (G0DJA) Hi Dave, While I can't speak for the whole digital community, I can probably speak with some authority for the ALE community... ALE operators have been sharing the ham bands for many many years without harmful interference. This is primarily due to the way that ALE has been adapted to amateur radio by hams, a protocol adaption known as ham-friendly ALE. 99% of ALE operation is in organised emcomm networks and 99% of the organised networks are operating in the internationally recogised HF automatic sub-bands, where automatic modes have been in use for many years. 73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA
[digitalradio] Dx pile ups..
Bonnie said the same goes for DX pileups. Basically, a pileup is simply a contest where the number of possible contacts is 1 and the number of possible multipliers is 1. Everyone who enters the pileup contest is trying to out-QRM the other entrants, or in FCC parlance... to harmfully interfere with, the other contestants in the pileup contest. They are trying to keep the other stations from working the target station, in favor of themselves. Louder, stronger, QRMer. Surely Bonnie is correct in this? Not ALL DXers , but the vast majority are doing what Bonnie describes when responding to a QRZ. If I hear P5DX QRZ?, then I hear November Seven Delta... starting a call and throw in Kilo Three Uniform Kilo on top of the 7 station (Danny) , Bonnie is correct that I have QRM'd him. I guess the difference is that this is accepted and actually encouraged. I still remember my utter shock when a new ham reading the ARRL handbook about DXing, and how a DX station would listen on incrementally different QRG and NOT tell you exactly where. The book explained that the art of DXing was to determine the DX station's methods and skillfully figure out where he would be listening. In Bonnie's context, this would be encouraging lots of QRM . Skip's earlier point would be that this still differs from unattendned transmissions but I think Bonnie's point is that the result is not that much difference. Cue Bonnie with comments about goose and gander... Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands
My recollection is that the discussions leading to the creation of the automatic sub-bands included expressions of the same concerns that continue to surface here: an operator in California who activates an unattended station in Denver can't know that the unattended station will QRM an ongoing QSO between stations in Chicago and Dallas because the operator in California hears neither of those stations. The FCC's solution to this problem was to 1. remind amateurs that they are expected to solve technical problems like this one 2. confine automatic operation above a specified baud rate to the automatic sub-bands As has been pointed out here too many times, viable busy frequency detectors have indeed been developed, but they have unfortunately not been widely deployed. Perhaps Winmor will user in a new age of enlightenment. Your ALE setup is automatic, but its only unattended if its operating while you aren't in control. 73, Dave, AA6YQ --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Andy obrien k3uka...@... wrote: When there's no emergency underway, however, the automatic bands are available to all amateur stations, not just unattended stations. Its no more acceptable for unattended stations to QRM ongoing QSOs in the automatic bands than it is to QRM them anywhere else within the amateur spectrum. 73, Dave, AA6YQ Excuse me for being so dumb, Dave... what is the purpose for allowing unattended stations in a specific part of a band if they have to listen to make sure a frequency is clear? I don't get it. Also, am I wrong in thinking that unattended versus automatic means the same thing? Hmm, in thinking back to the days that all this may have started, packet days, I remember that my TNC would not transmit a packet if the TNC detected another station, it would wait a second or two. is this the difference , that unattended with busy detect is fine ? Andy K3UK
RE: [digitalradio] Dx pile ups..
In a DX pileup, calling on the same frequency that someone else is calling generally results in neither of you getting through, particularly if you are using a digital mode. The idea is to 1. understand the range of frequencies in which the DX station is listening 2. crop your callsign into a hole in this range so that it will more likely be heard clearly In lighter pileups, the DX station may exhibit a pattern -- .e.g. moving up 500 hz after each RTTY QSO. Astute DXers learn this pattern, anticipate the next frequency, and call there. However, this only works when there aren't too many astute DXers. Spectrum scopes have made it much easier to rapidly detect such patterns, turning the anticipated next frequency into a zoo. As a result, many DX stations have abandoned the pattern method; instead, they randomly look for stations in the clear across the range in which they are operating. No DXer should participate in a pileup if doing so would QRM an ongoing QSO. In my experience, politely asking the participants in the ongoing QSO to move almost always yields a polite and positive response. 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of obrienaj Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:17 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Dx pile ups.. Bonnie said the same goes for DX pileups. Basically, a pileup is simply a contest where the number of possible contacts is 1 and the number of possible multipliers is 1. Everyone who enters the pileup contest is trying to out-QRM the other entrants, or in FCC parlance... to harmfully interfere with, the other contestants in the pileup contest. They are trying to keep the other stations from working the target station, in favor of themselves. Louder, stronger, QRMer. Surely Bonnie is correct in this? Not ALL DXers , but the vast majority are doing what Bonnie describes when responding to a QRZ. If I hear P5DX QRZ?, then I hear November Seven Delta... starting a call and throw in Kilo Three Uniform Kilo on top of the 7 station (Danny) , Bonnie is correct that I have QRM'd him. I guess the difference is that this is accepted and actually encouraged. I still remember my utter shock when a new ham reading the ARRL handbook about DXing, and how a DX station would listen on incrementally different QRG and NOT tell you exactly where. The book explained that the art of DXing was to determine the DX station's methods and skillfully figure out where he would be listening. In Bonnie's context, this would be encouraging lots of QRM . Skip's earlier point would be that this still differs from unattendned transmissions but I think Bonnie's point is that the result is not that much difference. Cue Bonnie with comments about goose and gander... Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] Digital busy detect
Packet radio gets by with a simple carrier detect, PACTOR can only detect other PACTOR stations, and from what I can tell, ALE has no busy detection at all. Several years ago I took a serious look at automated busy detection, and always ran across the same stone wall: A more sophisticated busy detect that can usually tell the difference between noise and a human activity like speech or digital transmissions is possible - BUT - only after the software has a fairly long audio sample to work with, and can look back upon that sample. It can't do this instantly, or even very quickly unless you have a supercomputer to work with. If it listens to a long sample and a new signal comes in toward the end of that sample, that new signal may or may not end up being identified. This is a terrible thing to have to report, but Packet's carrier detect is the most effective and sophisticated automatic signal detection scheme we currently have at our disposal. - It detects more kinds of activity *right then* than anything else that hams are currently using. There are lots of signals that carrier detect will not detect - but it is still the best thing out there, that can automatically detect and act in ( more or less ) real-time. The human ear works better, detecting signal intelligence and differentiating it from noise far better than any automated detection system. Period. Better still is the human eye, looking at a properly set up waterfall display that will show you recognizable patterns in the waterfall image that you may not be able to register just by listening. One thing to ponder is why carrier detect, developed over twenty-five years ago is not utilized by PACTOR or ALE, both allegedly more advanced than Packet. My feeling on this is that if they cannot detect signals as well as Packet does, then which mode is more advanced, more suitible for use on the ham bands? That is really an unfair question in the case of PACTOR III and ALE, niether one of which was designed or ever intended for use within shared amateur radio spectrum, in the first place. It is not the square peg's fault that it will not fit in the round hole. In the end, if we are not operating an automated station, then a waterfall display in combination with speaker audio is the most effective and useful busy detection system we have at our disposal, and this will almost certainly continue to be the case for a very long time. For real-time automated busy detection, carrier detect is highly likely to be the best thing at our disposal - again for a very long time. The Reed-Soloman ID system is a great step ahead for digital operation. It is not really useful as a real-time busy-detect, but it does give us a first step on something that may eventually take us there. As standards and hardware evolve over the years, we may eventually embed information into our data streams that can be instantly recognized as 'busy' by our software. - It may even approach the speed of carrier detect, and work with all modes. But don't hold your breath, it's not right around the corner. 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL Prefer to use radio for your amateur radio communications? - Stop by at HamRadioNet.Org ! http://www.hamradionet.org
RE: [digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands
This is true that only the FCC has set up automatic sub-bands. Most other countries adhere to the RECOMMENDATIONS of the IARU with respect to where and how to operate but these do not carry the force of law. This, and years of good operating practices has defined band operations. In Canada, amateurs are limited to a maximum power output, and a maximum bandwidth (6khz) except on 30M where it is 1khz bandwidth. Even with the freedom to operate any mode anywhere, the vast majority of operators more or less follow the established band plans. John VE5MU From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Struebel Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:50 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands Bonnie, Just a point... I don't believe the HF automatic sub bands are internationally recognized. To my knowledge it is only the FCC in the US that has set up these automatic control sub bands. 73 Dave WB2FTX - Original Message - From: expeditionradio mailto:expeditionra...@yahoo.com To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:21 PM Subject: [digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands I would also like the ALE and digital community to recognise that they share the bands with everyone else Dave (G0DJA) Hi Dave, While I can't speak for the whole digital community, I can probably speak with some authority for the ALE community... ALE operators have been sharing the ham bands for many many years without harmful interference. This is primarily due to the way that ALE has been adapted to amateur radio by hams, a protocol adaption known as ham-friendly ALE. 99% of ALE operation is in organised emcomm networks and 99% of the organised networks are operating in the internationally recogised HF automatic sub-bands, where automatic modes have been in use for many years. 73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA _ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.79/2522 - Release Date: 11/23/09 14:45:00
RE: [digitalradio] Digital busy detect
Did you evaluate the busy frequency detector in Scamp, Charles? Have you evaluated the busy frequency detector in Winmor? 73, Dave, AA6YQ -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com]on Behalf Of Charles Brabham Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:55 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Digital busy detect Packet radio gets by with a simple carrier detect, PACTOR can only detect other PACTOR stations, and from what I can tell, ALE has no busy detection at all. Several years ago I took a serious look at automated busy detection, and always ran across the same stone wall: A more sophisticated busy detect that can usually tell the difference between noise and a human activity like speech or digital transmissions is possible - BUT - only after the software has a fairly long audio sample to work with, and can look back upon that sample. It can't do this instantly, or even very quickly unless you have a supercomputer to work with. If it listens to a long sample and a new signal comes in toward the end of that sample, that new signal may or may not end up being identified. This is a terrible thing to have to report, but Packet's carrier detect is the most effective and sophisticated automatic signal detection scheme we currently have at our disposal. - It detects more kinds of activity *right then* than anything else that hams are currently using. There are lots of signals that carrier detect will not detect - but it is still the best thing out there, that can automatically detect and act in ( more or less ) real-time. The human ear works better, detecting signal intelligence and differentiating it from noise far better than any automated detection system. Period. Better still is the human eye, looking at a properly set up waterfall display that will show you recognizable patterns in the waterfall image that you may not be able to register just by listening. One thing to ponder is why carrier detect, developed over twenty-five years ago is not utilized by PACTOR or ALE, both allegedly more advanced than Packet. My feeling on this is that if they cannot detect signals as well as Packet does, then which mode is more advanced, more suitible for use on the ham bands? That is really an unfair question in the case of PACTOR III and ALE, niether one of which was designed or ever intended for use within shared amateur radio spectrum, in the first place. It is not the square peg's fault that it will not fit in the round hole. In the end, if we are not operating an automated station, then a waterfall display in combination with speaker audio is the most effective and useful busy detection system we have at our disposal, and this will almost certainly continue to be the case for a very long time. For real-time automated busy detection, carrier detect is highly likely to be the best thing at our disposal - again for a very long time. The Reed-Soloman ID system is a great step ahead for digital operation. It is not really useful as a real-time busy-detect, but it does give us a first step on something that may eventually take us there. As standards and hardware evolve over the years, we may eventually embed information into our data streams that can be instantly recognized as 'busy' by our software. - It may even approach the speed of carrier detect, and work with all modes. But don't hold your breath, it's not right around the corner. 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL Prefer to use radio for your amateur radio communications? - Stop by at HamRadioNet.Org ! http://www.hamradionet.org
