[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
Dear JP, (ONE) say the system is 1/3 each of egold, pecunix, and goldmoney. Say pecunix totally evaporates. What would happen is that each user loses one third of their conglomerated-gold. (Sucks, but better than losing it all.) Wouldn't it be clever to insure against such a disaster? Then the currency fails but your insurance policy kicks in and the gold is replaced. I would think a policy on the loss of any one of these would not carry too high a premium. Getting the insurer to agree to pay off in gold - write the contract in gold rather than dollars or euros - would seem a major challenge. (THREE) more of a sort of meta exchange system. This approach would have the advantage of letting the market inform you about which currency should have more of your bars of gold. If people preferentially bail in, say, e-gold and bail out, say, Pecunix, then you'll need to move bars from e-gold to Pecunix to keep up. (I think Robert you have Gone Mad here News? grin Regards, Jim --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
Sorry, your message was not sent out to 'e-gold-list'. Your message quotes too many continuous lines of a previous message. You quoted 16 lines, and this mailing list is set to reject messages which quote more than 15 continuous lines of a previous message. Please resubmit your message, this time quoting fewer lines of the previous message. --- the enigmatic Viking Koder says ... There have been discussions about a whole range of new currency possibilities. What if the working model of 1mdc is taken and expanded upon? Instead of a currency overlayed on a specific GBC, what would be the pros/cons of a currency redeemable (backed is too vague of a term) for any of a basket of GBCs? Exactly right, VC. Often at 1mdc people say well, 1mdc is based on e-gold, but no fees - could you also make one that is based on goldmoney, but no fees? So that would be fair enough, you could have a 1mdc based on egold, goldmoney, pecunix or whatever. But then people have said well why not base it on all of them - like you say above. There are a couple of different approaches to this, dealing with what to do around the margins when an underlying IG system fails. (ONE) say the system is 1/3 each of egold, pecunix, and goldmoney. Say pecunix totally evaporates. What would happen is that each user loses one third of their conglomerated-gold. (Sucks, but better than losing it all.) (TWO) the system has total flexibility of redemption *entirely based on the operator's personl preferences* at any time. Thus, I could say at any moment tough tittie - we no longer hand out egold This has the Hoppeian advantage of anything being personally run runs better, ie, the operator would be right on top of things, and use inside info to weed out shitty IG systems before they become a problem (THREE) more of a sort of meta exchange system. The operator would keep stocks of all three IGs on hand. If a user wanted any particular one, they could have it. It would be up to the operator to balance stocks of all three (perhaps moving bars etc). All this would, of course, have a cost to the operator. But then evertything has a cost. It costs egold money to store bars and bail and unbail bars. People would whine that it can't magically be free, but just the usual spend fees etc would be income and the other would be a cost. So that is three variations of this theme. (I think Robert you have Gone Mad here and you have gone off on a different sort of tack in this dicussion - youa re talking about more of a gold banking system, I think.) (Nothing wrong with that, I think, it just has nothing to do with what Engimatic Viking Koder mentioned.) --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
Dear JP, Often at 1mdc people say well, 1mdc is based on e-gold, but no fees - could you also make one that is based on goldmoney, but no fees? So that would be fair enough, you could have a 1mdc based on egold, goldmoney, pecunix or whatever. Goldmoney will not permit such a currency because they couldn't verify the owners of the gold grams. Which is the reason why you can't redeem Gold-Price grams for goldmoney but you can redeem them for other trusted gold currencies including e-gold, Pecunix and 1mdc grams (or even gold nuggets). Here is an interesting post from one of our members who describes what they did with the Gold-Price grams they redeemed for e-gold recently in our our TheGoldCasino.com/Dbourse.com forum: So how's everyone doing? They have these news articles about great odds and I'm seeing that firsthand lol. I'm up about 30 grams in 24 hours and for not usually betting very much and starting with the .3 grams I won here for predicting the price of gold... wow! Anyone else here experience almost unreal luck? Source: https://www.gold-price.net/viewtopic.php?t=804 Regards, Joel Bruce https://www.gold-price.net Stimulating the gold economy with over 5000 micro spends since December 2002 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
I remember me suggesting almost this same idea about a year and a half ago... http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg09415.html Check out the archives.. it might help the current discussion. Khurram Khan --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
Sidd, Untrue... 1g e-gold has ALWAYS been = to 1g Pecunix... Try it for yourself http://open2exchange.com/buy.sell...c2c What about the transaction fees on the deposit at pecinux? I think you have misunderstood Viking completely... Hence there has to be actual proof of the gold holdings for each currency, That is what Viking proposed. Actually I was trying to take his idea a bit further, when I suggested that he was in effect proposing to set up a reserve bank of sorts. After that I went on to show the weaknesses of both systems, first the one he proposed and the the one I suggested he would need to use to make it workable. The simple proposal was that there would always be a 1:1 ratio of gold to comgold, but a user would need to take pot luck when redeeming... In other words, if you wish to redeem 40g of comgold, and there is say 30g of e-gold in the system, and 20g of Pecunix and 10g of e-bullion etc, you are out of luck if you want it all in e-gold, you would need to take the 30g in e-gold and the balance in one of the others... I do see the benefit for users in a system that allows frictionless exchange between currencies and an ueber-currency (comgold) used to make it easier for people to trade with each other. But I fail to see the benefit of using a system in which redeemability for the currency of my choice is not garanteed. After all, if the redeemability is subject to availability, then everyone might as well use the US Dollar and then exchange the US Dollar for the IG currency of his or her choice? I do like any concept that makes things easier and improves on current systems, but I doubt that anything that would further complicate and confuse users who simply want to buy and sell 'stuff' would find many takers... But that is just my view and I might be wrong. Is n´´known to have happened before ;o) Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberfrontier.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
In fact, the mere existence of an independent reserve bank preempts the use of fiat, if you want to insist on proper term usage. So modify the term for proper current usage, which happens on a regular/continual basis, by removing any mention of 'government'. Fiat money = any currency/scrip/tokens issued without redeemability In other words, if there are 1,000,000g comgold in circulation and I grab 40% of that and e-gold represents 40% of the comgold reserver and I exchange 10% or 100,000g of comgold for e-gold, then e-gold suddenly is only 36% of the total and the 4% difference are holdings of comgold in comgold, right? Wrong. How would you 'grab' 40% of the comgold? You would have to obtain the comgold just like you obtain any other item - by exchange or theft. Either you exchange e-gold - comgold through some exchange provider, receive some for some service or goods, or obtain through various illicit means, but no matter how you do it - the amount in circulation never changes. In order to change the amount in circulation, you go directly to comgold and add more e-gold into the mix. For which you receive an equal amount of comgold. The ratios of e-gold/pecunix/e-bullion/goldmoney/1mdc would then change. The amount in circulation would decrease when you redeem out of the system. But as that can't be, because comgold is not fiat, the percentage of pecinux and others has to increase. 100g total 60% (60g) e-gold 10% (10g) 1mdc 10% (10g) pecunix 10% (10g) e-bullion 10% (10g) goldmoney Add 20g e-gold Receive 20g comgold 120g total 66.7% (80g) e-gold 8.3% (10g) 1mdc 8.3% (10g) pecunix 8.3% (10g) e-bullion 8.3% (10g) goldmoney Redeem 40g comgold - e-gold 80g total 50% (40g) e-gold 12.5% (10g) 1mdc 12.5% (10g) pecunix 12.5% (10g) e-bullion 12.5% (10g) goldmoney All circulation changes would be recorded and could be made available for public view along with publicly viewable balances in every underlying currency. Viking Coder http://www.2cw.org/?VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
Robert B.Z. wrote: Sidd, Untrue... 1g e-gold has ALWAYS been = to 1g Pecunix... Try it for yourself http://open2exchange.com/buy.sell...c2c What about the transaction fees on the deposit at pecinux? It's free... Pecunix has a policy of offering preferred transaction rates to certain larger customers. It is available to all businesses that qualify, on application. see the bottom of the following page http://pecunix.com/money.refined...ind.feestructure Regards, Sidd. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
Dear Viking Coder, snip Or... Is the following statement not true? 1g e-gold = 1g pecunix = 1g e-bullion = 1g goldmoney The gold price per gram is different for e-gold and e-bullion while Pecunix and GoldMoney use the same price but are different again. Here is a snap shot of the current gold price per gram at the time of writing for the major gold currencies: e-gold: 12.745 US/ AUG 1mdc: 12.745 US/ 1mdc gram Pecunix: 12.7251 US/ GAU GoldMoney: 12.72 US/ goldgram e-bullion: 12.73 US/g IntGold: 12.25US/g ??? Regards, Joel Bruce http://gold-price.net/gold-price-charts.html Customised Live Gold Price Charts in grams and ounces for your website --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
How would such a conglomerated gold currency be a fiat currency? Sorry about the term abuse. I often use fiat incorrectly because of the insecurities it implies and because I want to differenciate from other digital currencies. While my idea of fiat is not necessarily correct I do assess it in the same way I assess DisneyDollars which, strictly speaking are not fiat because they are not issued by a government - but neither are the Euro or the US dollar. In fact, the mere existence of an independent reserve bank preempts the use of fiat, if you want to insist on proper term usage. After all, the Federal Reserve is not a government body... Or... Is the following statement not true? 1g e-gold = 1g pecunix = 1g e-bullion = 1g goldmoney No it is untrue on two counts: (1) 1g e-gold = (1g sth else - minus exchange fees) (2) all other currencies combined can not bring up the same amount of gramms in circulation. Hence wile 1g e-gold might be close to 1g sth else, 2tonnes e-gold isn't, because there isn't enough something else. Exemption is of course 1mdc/fastgrams which is backed and redeemable for e-gold. Either way, I think the main concerns are not two words I used and their dictionary meanings, but the fact that for 1g comgold to be redeemable for gold, you need to look at it as 100/100g comgold, redeemable for 40/100g of e-gold, etc... Hence there has to be actual proof of the gold holdings for each currency, or a garantee by the operator of the currency, which in turn means that you have to have 100/100g comgold to have a chance to call in a promise - unless comgold will allow me to used 40g of comgold to get e-gold, which will then itself create an imbalance of the fractual percentage of the holding reserves of comgold in other currencies, which in turn would change the 40g relative rate into something slightly lower, which finally means that I will make a fraction of a gram profit by exchanging comgold for e-gold - which of course, means that comgold can't allow that to happen, which in turn means that comgold is ipso facto not redeemable... If however comgold did allow me to change 40g of comgold into 40g of e-gold, then I'd like to park a couple of tons in your back yard please and drive off with couple of tons of e-gold redeemed bullion at a profit of a few KG, depending on the overall volume of comgold in circulation. In other words, if there are 1,000,000g comgold in circulation and I grab 40% of that and e-gold represents 40% of the comgold reserver and I exchange 10% or 100,000g of comgold for e-gold, then e-gold suddenly is only 36% of the total and the 4% difference are holdings of comgold in comgold, right? But as that can't be, because comgold is not fiat, the percentage of pecinux and others has to increase. Suddenly I get e-gold for comgold at 4% below the basket fraction. I keep doing this until e-gold is 0% of comgold and then use e-gold to buy the now undervalued other currencies. Doing that a few times (while comgold needs to issue more hypothetical grams to keep me at bay, I end up controlling large chunks of all currencies and comgold keeps paying the difference by issuing new comgold-gs to the exchangers - which now stopped being redeemable. If you ask me, I'd call it fiat - for lack of a better term. Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberfrontier.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
Robert, Robert B.Z. wrote: 1g e-gold = 1g pecunix = 1g e-bullion = 1g goldmoney No it is untrue on two counts: (1) 1g e-gold = (1g sth else - minus exchange fees) Untrue... 1g e-gold has ALWAYS been = to 1g Pecunix... Try it for yourself http://open2exchange.com/buy.sell...c2c Likewise for all the others... Either way, I think the main concerns are not two words I used and their dictionary meanings, but the fact that for 1g comgold to be redeemable for gold, you need to look at it as 100/100g comgold I think you have misunderstood Viking completely... Hence there has to be actual proof of the gold holdings for each currency, That is what Viking proposed. The simple proposal was that there would always be a 1:1 ratio of gold to comgold, but a user would need to take pot luck when redeeming... In other words, if you wish to redeem 40g of comgold, and there is say 30g of e-gold in the system, and 20g of Pecunix and 10g of e-bullion etc, you are out of luck if you want it all in e-gold, you would need to take the 30g in e-gold and the balance in one of the others... There is no fractional system... Regards, Sidd. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
You exchange 100g of e-gold for 100g of comgold. Those 100g of comgold aren't guaranteed to be redeemable for e-gold, but are guaranteed to be redeemable for 100g total of any of the currently underlying GBCs (17g pecunix, 13g goldmoney, 16g e-bullion, 14g 1mdc, 40g e-gold) due to the flux of in- out-exchanges. You are essentially talking about an electronic reserve bank that issues fiat currency, based on supply and demand, yes? I assume to make it workable you would expect currency operators to maintain corespondence accounts with the reserve bank and garantee to balance their respective account in accordance with the percentage of the overall volume represented by their currency? To get them to do that, you would need to offer them to share ownership of the reserve bank (and find a name that doesn't have 'reserve' in it) and the bank would need to generate some sort of revenue (membership fees? exchange courtages?) to make people want to own shares. A pretty big ask in an environment were IG currency operators distrust each other and everyone would want to see everyone else's gold, don't you think? pro: diversification of risk The risk that user loose funds when one of the currencies folds? In fact there would be no risk, as the remaining operators would have to pick up the tab. Any other system would not entice users to use the currency. But more importantly, I feel that most people have a misconception about their own users - or at least the majority of users and the meaning of the word currency, itself. Most people that I know, use IG as currency. As a means to purchase goods and services - NOT as an investment. What you are suggesting would have the underlying goal of getting people to trust the concept enough not to outexchange and instead to use the new IG as an investment vehicle as well. To do that however, you need to offer more than just a spread-risk digital gold redemmable currency. You need to offer interest, dividends, something for people to profit from. If any sane person wants to invest into bullion because they expect the price to go up, and if that investment is longer term, nothing beats the real article - having the coins and bars in your safe - next to your reserve gun and ammo. Sure, a government could try to confiscate it - but that could happen with a currency operator as well. I like the idea of a reserve / clearing system that allows people to deal with one currency while there are several actual currencies in place, but if that is the only reason, then Sidd has done half the work. In the end of the day, if I have no incentive to keep a particular currency, other than promises and fancy documents posted on a site, then I will always opt for e-gold (1mdc) and ultimately for outexchange - to buy the genuine article. And I believe that most 'consumers' have similar views. e-gold ruley supreme - other currencies are great because one can exchange them into e-gold, but e-gold is what people buy and spend the most. It is in fact a currency that flows. I would go as far as saying that e-gold is a currency, the others are private money. The word currency itself has a 'flow' built in. Money doesn't by itself. But then, I am not an IG/DGC operator. I just use the stuff to buy other stuff - as do the people who buy stff from me with it. Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberfrontier.net start a profitable online business http://www.cyberfrontier.biz budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
Hi Robert, And I believe that most 'consumers' have similar views. e-gold ruley supreme - other currencies are great because one can exchange them into e-gold, but e-gold is what people buy and spend the most. Yes, e-gold is great! Because I can instantly change it into Pecunix at Open2Exchange and be sure that the gold is actually there and secure (without ID)! It is in fact a currency that flows. I would go as far as saying that e-gold is a currency, the others are private money. The word currency itself has a 'flow' built in. Yes and when people start learning of the convenience of GoldCart.com it will be interesting to see which way the gold flows. Best, /Drew --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: comglomerated gold
You are essentially talking about an electronic reserve bank that issues fiat currency, based on supply and demand, yes? How would such a conglomerated gold currency be a fiat currency? Individual currencies (e-gold, pecunix, etc...) aren't considered fiat. 1mdc isn't considered fiat. Why then does comgold fit the bill? http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fiat%20money --- Legal tender, especially paper currency, authorized by a government but not based on or convertible into gold or silver. --- Comgold would not be issued by a government but would be based on, and convertible into, gold in the same method as 1mdc. Or... Is the following statement not true? 1g e-gold = 1g pecunix = 1g e-bullion = 1g goldmoney Comgold would step into fiat territory if multiple metal bases were included into it - such as e-silver, e-bullion silver, e-platinum, etc... Because, how many grams of silver equal one gram of gold? Viking Coder http://www.2cw.org/?VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
