Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[andy pugh]

On 29 April 2013 19:16, Matt Shaver  wrote:

> I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it
> appears that no one else will :)

Something else that is already out there (and a few of us were given
samples of) is:
http://www.roboard.com/ncbox-189.html
Which is x86 but also has a number of on-board PWM channels.

In some ways I think they missed a trick with the NCbox, and might
have been better going for an all-in-one based on
http://www.roboard.com/RB-110.htm

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Matt Shaver]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 21:05:41 +0200
Michael Haberler  wrote:

> Am 29.04.2013 um 20:16 schrieb Matt Shaver :
> 
> > On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500
> > Jon Elson  wrote:
> > 
> >> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
> > 
> > I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards,
> > since it appears that no one else will :)
> 
> let me say I wholeheartedly enjoy listening to your problems all of
> which were completely theoretical 5 months ago
> 
> so they look like good to have to me;)

It is a good time to be alive.

Thanks,
Matt

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Charles Steinkuehler]

On 4/29/2013 1:16 PM, Matt Shaver wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500
> Jon Elson  wrote:
> 
>> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
> 
> I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it
> appears that no one else will :)

Excellent points...I have a few comments of my own in-line:

> 
> Several areas of concern are worthy of our attention, which argue for a
> more circumspect outlook regarding the explosion of new ARM based
> systems that can potentially host linuxcnc:
> 
> 1. In the case of the Pi, numbers matter I think. 

I believe you're right about the numbers, and the Pi takes this hands
down.  That doesn't change the fact that any of these boards could
disappear overnight, or be replaced by the "next new thing" at a moments
notice.

> 2. The PRU is a TI specific thing. 

Yep...the PRU is a TI specific thing.  That said, it's successful enough
to be in it's second iteration across a family of several different ARM
based SoCs.  These parts are also aimed at the industrial market rather
than the more fickle consumer market, and I suspect will have a longer
life than the SoC at the heart of the Pi, or the Allwinner chip-of-the-day.

> 3. Cost: Pi=$25-$35, BBB=$45. 

I'm not personally concerned drastically about the cost.  I liked the
'Bone more than the Pi for CNC before the price got cut in half.

> 4. If linuxcnc3 supports distributed processing, and network
> interconnection/cooperation, then these cheap little boards could be
> spread out in a cluster, which is much less practical with even small
> PCs. The small size, low cost, and low power requirements make this
> very attractive AND allows each different type of little board to be
> applied where it makes the most engineering and financial sense. This
> also argues for not narrowing our focus strictly to the BBB.

I totally agree here...but the gory details need to be worked out first
(see more below for #5).

> 5. Most of this debate is moot, because the REAL FUTURE is (IMHO) going
> to be in these combo ARM+FPGA chips like the Xilinx Zynq and Altera
> Cyclone SoC devices. This type of device will likely render the
> existing boards we're looking at now obsolete within a few years. Any
> attempt to predict the future past about 5 years is probably futile.

I agree with this in spirit...IMHO the ARM + FPGA combination is going
to simplify the current dizzying array of dedicated function ARM SoC
parts into a more comprehensive ecosystem.  But that's the future, not
today.  Today, what *I* am trying to get from LinuxCNC is a functional
replacement for the typical Arduino based 3D printer controller.  So
what I need is:

* LinuxCNC ported to something that runs on a board 'similar' to an
Arduino (ie: small, low-power, and fairly inexpensive).  In today's
world that pretty much means an ARM board.  Or maybe some Atom based
tablet reference platform, but the ARM boards are easier to come by.

* Hardware/software support for 5+ channels of step/dir generation at
rates that exceed the current Arduino limits (I'm targeting at least 100
KHz step rate, ideally higher).

* ADC support for 3+ thermistors

* PWM generation for controlling the heaters (this is low-bandwidth, and
can be done by just about anything).

So...the Pi falls flat on ADC support and step/dir generation (have you
checked the worst-case latency figures for ARM even with a Xenomai
enhanced kernel?  50+ uS).  The TI AM339x on the 'Bone has enhanced
hardware timer support compared to the Pi, but the PRU is really what
makes this SoC a great intermediate step between a plain vanilla ARM
core and a full-on FPGA solution.  I still think you need an FPGA if
you're running with encoders and servos (except the 'Bone could _maybe_
drive a 3-axis servo system if you can use the hardware encoders
built-in to the SoC, but I'd still prefer an FPGA).

Given the Xilinx Zynq is apparently made of solid gold (based on their
board and chip pricing), and the Altera SoC parts aren't quite real yet,
the 'Bone looks like the best choice for a LinuxCNC ARM platform
_TODAY_.  But I wouldn't want to be too tightly coupled to *ANY*
particular ARM chip/SoC solution...this environment is rapidly changing.

As for the FPGA option...in addition to attending the Altera/Arrow
SoCKIT seminar next month (where I'll be getting a Cyclone-V SoC
evaluation board with ES silicon), I just found out I may be using the
Altera FPGA + ARM SoC in an official work (ie: paid job) project.  I
really do see the FPGA + ARM SoC parts as the future, but there are a
few steps to be traveled along the way... :)

If you know of another existing board (ARM or otherwise) that can
support at least five 100+ KHz step/dir channels and has 3+ ADC inputs
(all without having to add external hardware), I'd *LOVE* to hear about
it.  I'm quite sure I am not aware of every low-cost dev/eval/hobby
board available.

> Having said all this, I did get a BBB in the mail yesterday, and I will
> now play with

Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- On Mon, 4/29/13, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> > From: Gregg Eshelman 

> > What about the network port? Don't use the video and
> use network for control.
> > Could you multiplex encoder data to make two work like
> four, albeit at a slower rate?
> 
> 
> You could multiplex encoder data using a PRU software
> encoder (If you ran 
> out of pins) but this would 1/2 the software data capture
> rate. I dont think 
> its possible to mux the hardware encoders.
> 
> Encoder capture might also be possible with DMA, I havent
> looked into PRU DMA capabilities yet

I was thinking along the lines of what Sony did with a single DAC in the first 
consumer model CD player. They ran it at least 2x as fast as needed to decode 
one channel then interleaved the bitstreams. No problem there, but they went 
even cheaper and didn't use a buffer and hold to re-sync the left and right 
channels, causing one to have a small lag. I guess they figured nobody would 
notice, probably didn't, but the "golden ear" types would claim they did once 
they knew the hardware details.

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Michael Haberler]

Gentlemen,


Am 29.04.2013 um 20:16 schrieb Matt Shaver :

> On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500
> Jon Elson  wrote:
> 
>> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
> 
> I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it
> appears that no one else will :)

let me say I wholeheartedly enjoy listening to your problems all of which were 
completely theoretical 5 months ago

so they look like good to have to me;)

-m


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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Matt Shaver]

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500
Jon Elson  wrote:

> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?

I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it
appears that no one else will :)

Several areas of concern are worthy of our attention, which argue for a
more circumspect outlook regarding the explosion of new ARM based
systems that can potentially host linuxcnc:

1. In the case of the Pi, numbers matter I think. AFAIK, the Beagle
Bone has two versions which have been produced; The BBW which was
produced in a quantity of 60,000 (correct me if I'm wrong please), and
the BBB which is being produced in a batch of 100,000 initially.
Contrast this with the Pi, which has a total production of >1,000,000
(most are Model B, and I don't know how many of Model A).
Also, AFAIK, none of the Allwinner A10/A20 boards has been produced in
anything like these quantities AS A DEVELOPMENT BOARD. The Allwinner
chips are however INCREDIBLY POPULAR in tablets and other applications.
An Allwinner board like the Cubie, or even the Cubie itself, could
become available in a week, month, or year, that creates as big a stir
as the release of the BBB did a few days ago.
Then, there's the iMX233 based stuff (far example
https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/iMX233/). This processor is
very cheap, and available. It's not as super powerful as the others,
but could play a useful role, perhaps as a network connected, smart
peripheral controller.
My point is: It's way too early in this situation to declare a
"winner". In fact, the linuxcnc future may involve solutions which
employ more than one of these technologies.

2. The PRU is a TI specific thing. My best guess is that BBB solutions
are going to lean on the PRU for all it's worth (which is a good
thing). However, the PRU is not going to scale up as far as FPGA
solutions will. For a real world example, the Smithy 1240 (early 2
phase motor models), used a stepper drive with 400kHz maximum step
pulse frequency and normal operation of the machine at rapid speed used
the whole 400kHz. The biggest configuration of this machine had (3)
400kHz axes, and one (rotary) at 200-250kHz. Additionally, there is a
720 line spindle encoder that has to work at up to 6000RPM (the A and
B channels will max out at 72kHz). This example is far below the
desirable maximum limits we should impose on potential linuxcnc users.

3. Cost: Pi=$25-$35, BBB=$45. Since the difference between production
cost and retail sales price is usually a factor of 2-3x, this means a
BBB solution will sell for at least $20, and as much as $60 more than a
Pi based one, all other things being equal. Since both boards require
at least one additional circuit board for isolation and level
translation purposes, the $10-$20 difference in price between the two
boards would just about cover the cost of adding an FPGA to the Pi's
auxiliary PCB. A Pi+FPGA > BBB+PRU assuming software support for both
in linuxcnc.

4. If linuxcnc3 supports distributed processing, and network
interconnection/cooperation, then these cheap little boards could be
spread out in a cluster, which is much less practical with even small
PCs. The small size, low cost, and low power requirements make this
very attractive AND allows each different type of little board to be
applied where it makes the most engineering and financial sense. This
also argues for not narrowing our focus strictly to the BBB.

5. Most of this debate is moot, because the REAL FUTURE is (IMHO) going
to be in these combo ARM+FPGA chips like the Xilinx Zynq and Altera
Cyclone SoC devices. This type of device will likely render the
existing boards we're looking at now obsolete within a few years. Any
attempt to predict the future past about 5 years is probably futile.

Having said all this, I did get a BBB in the mail yesterday, and I will
now play with it... :)

Thanks,
Matt

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, Gregg Eshelman wrote:

> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 01:51:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Gregg Eshelman 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [utf-8] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run
> SD card image
> 
> --- On Sun, 4/28/13, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
>
>> I dont think the case for servo systems is very good without
>> some additional hardware. The BBB has just three possible
>> hardware encoder counters. Software encoder counters could
>> be done by the PRU but they would not be comparable to
>> hardware encoder counters in performance (hardware can do
>> MHz count rates and more importantly multi MHZ oversampling
>> for digital filtering). Also you lose one hardware encoder
>> if you use the on card flash memory and one more if you use
>> video.
>
> What about the network port? Don't use the video and use network for control.
> Could you multiplex encoder data to make two work like four, albeit at a 
> slower rate?


You could multiplex encoder data using a PRU software encoder (If you ran 
out of pins) but this would 1/2 the software data capture rate. I dont think 
its possible to mux the hardware encoders.

Encoder capture might also be possible with DMA, I havent looked into PRU DMA 
capabilities yet

>
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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- On Sun, 4/28/13, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> I dont think the case for servo systems is very good without
> some additional hardware. The BBB has just three possible
> hardware encoder counters. Software encoder counters could
> be done by the PRU but they would not be comparable to
> hardware encoder counters in performance (hardware can do
> MHz count rates and more importantly multi MHZ oversampling
> for digital filtering). Also you lose one hardware encoder
> if you use the on card flash memory and one more if you use
> video.

What about the network port? Don't use the video and use network for control.
Could you multiplex encoder data to make two work like four, albeit at a slower 
rate?

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Dave]

>>  Another plan might be to make an FPGA board specific for the Bone, but what 
>> do I do
with all the inventory I already have, here?
<<

Obviously you are not the only one in that boat! 

But I don't think the PC based CNC market is going to vanish overnight even
if the BeagleBone is wildly successful.. as this is bleeding edge at this point 
and it will take a while to shake things out.

But long term, it certainly could be a game changer.

>>So, FPGAs
still have something to offer.

<<

I entirely agree.

One thing that really got my attention with the BeagleBone is that 
Canbus and Profibus capes are in the works and those are targeted 
directly at the industrial automation market.


Dave



On 4/28/2013 10:25 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> Dave wrote:
>
>> I disagree.
>>
>> If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you need to toss
>> the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the
>> Breakout board - similar to a cape.
>>  
> Yes, I mostly agree with this.  What I had in mind was to put an 8-bit
> plus control
> signals interface in the adapter so that it could connect to my existing
> boards,
> as a first step.  Then, I can change the firmware on my boards to handle a
> much faster protocol between the ARM and my FPGAs.  Another plan
> might be to make an FPGA board specific for the Bone, but what do I do
> with all the inventory I already have, here?
>
> The problem is in a mid-performance servo system, the PRU may not
> be fast enough to read encoders and produce PWM for the servo drives.
> Since there are two PRU units, this may not actually be true, but I still
> imagine that a completely software encoder counter would take at
> least several us, maybe tens of us to complete for 4 or more axes, so
> that would limit the maximum encoder count frequency.  I have often
> run into the 1 MHz default count rate on my boards.  So, a 100 KHz
> count limit would be at least a concern.  Also, using the PRU to generate
> PWM, I'd imagine the timing resolution would be a us or so, at best.
> I have 25 ns timing resolution with my PWM controller.  So, FPGAs
> still have something to offer.
>
> Just some comments to throw out there.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Dave]

Hi Steve,

Sounds like you have your head in the game..Smart!  :-)

I have no clue how successful the BeagleBone is going to be.  But it 
sure is interesting!  It could really be a game changer.

I'm going to try hard to get to Wichita and so far I have been able to 
keep my schedule clear for that week.

It could be a very  interesting gathering.

>>The design is based around a
programmable logic device to minimize the impact of
incorrect assumptions of how the Beagle Bone Black is
pinned out and configured.

<<

Very smart as this bleeding edge stuff sometimes needs different 
accommodations!  :-)


Regards,
Dave Cole
Cole Controls




On 4/28/2013 9:56 PM, Steve Stallings wrote:
> Dave,
>
> PMDX is considering just such a product and is trying to
> figure out what things are needed for a "real" industrial
> control.
>
> Meanwhile, we are actually working on a "cape" to be used
> as a test platform at Wichita. It will use the parallel port
> header approach along with other debugging stuff. It can be
> used together with PMDX-112/PMDX-111 debugging accessories,
> or it could simply be used as parallel ports to drive an
> existing breakout board.  The design is based around a
> programmable logic device to minimize the impact of
> incorrect assumptions of how the Beagle Bone Black is
> pinned out and configured.
>
> Regards,
> Steve Stallings
> www.PMDX.com
>
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Dave [mailto:e...@dc9.tzo.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 9:23 PM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit:
>> ready-to-run SD card image
>>
>> I disagree.
>>
>> If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you
>> need to toss
>> the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the
>> Breakout board - similar to a cape.  But make it larger and
>> put 24 volt
>> DC I/O on it, along with analog I/O, Encoder ins, and step
>> and direction
>> I/O.   To me that would be an attractive package.   I really dislike
>> 5volt I/O for field I/O.  24 volt DC I/O is much more reliable and is
>> the current industry standard.  You could have two versions - one for
>> step and direction and another for Analog servo, but I think I would
>> design one board.
>>
>> The only reason anyone ever used the EPP LPT port was because it was
>> cheap and already part of the PC.
>>
>> I have no desire to reuse old BOBs and keep it "PC compatible".
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On 4/28/2013 8:57 PM, dave wrote:
>>  
>>> Considering the fact that good BOB's cost pretty much what
>>>
>> the B3 does
>>  
>>> being able to plug to current BOB's would be nice.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 2013-04-28 at 14:55 -0700, Greg Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>   I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least,
>>>>  
>> a parallel port adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to
>> be used. But the ideal would be a dedicated cape that could
>> provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico Systems board.
>>  
>>>>
>>>>  
>> ++
>> +
>>  
>>>> "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever
>>>>      
>> in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."
>>  
>>>>   -Kenneth Boulding, economist
>>>> "How unfortunate that the Earth's first intelligent social
>>>>  
>> animal is a tribal carnivore"
>>  
>>>>   -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Gene Heskett
>>>>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit:
>>>>>
>> ready-to-run SD  card image
>>  
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Eric Keller wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, 

Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013, Dave wrote:


Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 21:23:24 -0400
From: Dave 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [utf-8] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run
SD card image

I disagree.


If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you need to toss 
the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the 
Breakout board - similar to a cape.  But make it larger and put 24 volt 
DC I/O on it, along with analog I/O, Encoder ins, and step and direction 
I/O.   To me that would be an attractive package.   I really dislike 
5volt I/O for field I/O.  24 volt DC I/O is much more reliable and is 
the current industry standard.  You could have two versions - one for 
step and direction and another for Analog servo, but I think I would 
design one board.


The only reason anyone ever used the EPP LPT port was because it was 
cheap and already part of the PC.


I have no desire to reuse old BOBs and keep it "PC compatible".

Dave



We are considering a Beaglebone step/dir daughtercard. It also looks like the 
PRU and a UARTs could run the sserial host side interface (though at a 
different baud rate and awkwardly due the the really stupid and ancient UARTS 
the Sitara uses)


I dont think the case for servo systems is very good without some additional 
hardware. The BBB has just three possible hardware encoder counters. Software 
encoder counters could be done by the PRU but they would not be comparable to 
hardware encoder counters in performance (hardware can do MHz count rates and 
more importantly multi MHZ oversampling for digital filtering). Also you lose 
one hardware encoder if you use the on card flash memory and one more if you 
use video.



On 4/28/2013 8:57 PM, dave wrote:

Considering the fact that good BOB's cost pretty much what the B3 does
being able to plug to current BOB's would be nice.

Dave



On Sun, 2013-04-28 at 14:55 -0700, Greg Bernard wrote:


 I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, a parallel port 
adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to be used. But the ideal would be a 
dedicated cape that could provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico Systems 
board.

+++
"Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is 
either a madman or an economist."
 -Kenneth Boulding, economist
??How unfortunate that the Earth??s first intelligent social animal is a tribal 
carnivore??
 -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist







From: Gene Heskett
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ??Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD  
card image


On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine:



Eric Keller wrote:


On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson


wrote:


Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?


I think it's a no-brainer myself.  I have a Raspi, but I just don't
see it competing with the bbb


OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi
discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed.
I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have
learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone.

So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be
like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board?
I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected
devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would
rather have a much "wider" I/O device, maybe a couple
dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins.

So, any thoughts would be welcome.

Jon


Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace
these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the
more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight
into our existing BOB's.  Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could
put the right signals on the right pins.  That generally is up to us
anyway.

Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than
one EPP port can supply.  But I haven't studied it well enough to know if
the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector.  That would be pure
icing on the cake IMO if it did.

Cheers, Gene
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page:<http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>  is up!
My views
<http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml>
There's so much plastic in this culture that vinyl leopard skin is
becoming an endangered synthetic.
-- Lily 

Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Jon Elson]

Dave wrote:
> I disagree.
>
> If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you need to toss 
> the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the 
> Breakout board - similar to a cape.
Yes, I mostly agree with this.  What I had in mind was to put an 8-bit 
plus control
signals interface in the adapter so that it could connect to my existing 
boards,
as a first step.  Then, I can change the firmware on my boards to handle a
much faster protocol between the ARM and my FPGAs.  Another plan
might be to make an FPGA board specific for the Bone, but what do I do
with all the inventory I already have, here?

The problem is in a mid-performance servo system, the PRU may not
be fast enough to read encoders and produce PWM for the servo drives.
Since there are two PRU units, this may not actually be true, but I still
imagine that a completely software encoder counter would take at
least several us, maybe tens of us to complete for 4 or more axes, so
that would limit the maximum encoder count frequency.  I have often
run into the 1 MHz default count rate on my boards.  So, a 100 KHz
count limit would be at least a concern.  Also, using the PRU to generate
PWM, I'd imagine the timing resolution would be a us or so, at best.
I have 25 ns timing resolution with my PWM controller.  So, FPGAs
still have something to offer.

Just some comments to throw out there.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Steve Stallings]

Dave,

PMDX is considering just such a product and is trying to 
figure out what things are needed for a "real" industrial 
control.

Meanwhile, we are actually working on a "cape" to be used 
as a test platform at Wichita. It will use the parallel port 
header approach along with other debugging stuff. It can be 
used together with PMDX-112/PMDX-111 debugging accessories,
or it could simply be used as parallel ports to drive an
existing breakout board.  The design is based around a 
programmable logic device to minimize the impact of 
incorrect assumptions of how the Beagle Bone Black is 
pinned out and configured.

Regards,
Steve Stallings
www.PMDX.com
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave [mailto:e...@dc9.tzo.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 9:23 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: 
> ready-to-run SD card image
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you 
> need to toss 
> the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the 
> Breakout board - similar to a cape.  But make it larger and 
> put 24 volt 
> DC I/O on it, along with analog I/O, Encoder ins, and step 
> and direction 
> I/O.   To me that would be an attractive package.   I really dislike 
> 5volt I/O for field I/O.  24 volt DC I/O is much more reliable and is 
> the current industry standard.  You could have two versions - one for 
> step and direction and another for Analog servo, but I think I would 
> design one board.
> 
> The only reason anyone ever used the EPP LPT port was because it was 
> cheap and already part of the PC.
> 
> I have no desire to reuse old BOBs and keep it "PC compatible".
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> On 4/28/2013 8:57 PM, dave wrote:
> > Considering the fact that good BOB's cost pretty much what 
> the B3 does
> > being able to plug to current BOB's would be nice.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 2013-04-28 at 14:55 -0700, Greg Bernard wrote:
> >
> >>  I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, 
> a parallel port adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to 
> be used. But the ideal would be a dedicated cape that could 
> provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico Systems board.
> >>
> >> 
> ++
> +
> >> "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever 
> in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."
> >>  -Kenneth Boulding, economist
> >> "How unfortunate that the Earth's first intelligent social 
> animal is a tribal carnivore"
> >>  -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> >>> 
> >>> From: Gene Heskett
> >>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: 
> ready-to-run SD   card image
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Eric Keller wrote:
> >>>>  
> >>>>> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon 
> Elson
> >>>>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
> >>>>>>  
> >>>>> I think it's a no-brainer myself.  I have a Raspi, but 
> I just don't
> >>>>> see it competing with the bbb
> >>>>>
> >>>> OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi
> >>>> discussion here, I thought that might be the way 
> development was headed.
> >>>> I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have
> >>>> learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be
> >>>> like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board?
> >>>> I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected
> >>>> devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would
> >>>> rather have a much "wider" I/O device, maybe a couple
> >>>> dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, a

Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Gregg Eshelman]

So this setup for the BeagleBone Black runs LinuxCNC and a small web server, to 
control it you login via Ethernet?

Interesting setup, that. I do that quite often with HP laser printers and I've 
remotely updated and operated Portmasters hundreds of miles away.

For the control peripheral board (whatever their cutsey name is for the 
BeagleBone series) I'd say skip rebuilding the parallel port wheel and design 
one to directly control as many stepper or servo driver/amplifiers as possible.

To offer options on the number of axes, design one board then just don't fully 
populate it for versions with less than the maximum. That's what the big 
computer component vendors have done for a long time, especially for OEMs like 
Dell and HP where you'll often see empty spots for slots and connectors and 
chips the company ticked a delete box on the order.

It'd save a bunch on design and production costs, and sufficiently motivated 
people could add more components and update firmware if they have a need for 
another axis.

I put together a 1Ghz PIII last night for what'll be my first CNC homebrew 
machine. Got a much beefier one that will most likely go with a CandCNC 
Dragon-Cut kit on a large plasma table.

After those, this BBB system looks like it could be cheaper, smaller and easier 
to use, especially for "lights out" unattended operation.

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Dave]

I disagree.

If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you need to toss 
the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the 
Breakout board - similar to a cape.  But make it larger and put 24 volt 
DC I/O on it, along with analog I/O, Encoder ins, and step and direction 
I/O.   To me that would be an attractive package.   I really dislike 
5volt I/O for field I/O.  24 volt DC I/O is much more reliable and is 
the current industry standard.  You could have two versions - one for 
step and direction and another for Analog servo, but I think I would 
design one board.

The only reason anyone ever used the EPP LPT port was because it was 
cheap and already part of the PC.

I have no desire to reuse old BOBs and keep it "PC compatible".

Dave


On 4/28/2013 8:57 PM, dave wrote:
> Considering the fact that good BOB's cost pretty much what the B3 does
> being able to plug to current BOB's would be nice.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On Sun, 2013-04-28 at 14:55 -0700, Greg Bernard wrote:
>
>>  I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, a parallel port 
>> adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to be used. But the ideal would be 
>> a dedicated cape that could provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico 
>> Systems board.
>>
>> +++
>> "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world 
>> is either a madman or an economist."
>>  -Kenneth Boulding, economist
>> “How unfortunate that the Earth’s first intelligent social animal is a 
>> tribal carnivore”
>>  -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>> ____________
>>> From: Gene Heskett
>>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD   
>>> card image
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Eric Keller wrote:
>>>>  
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson
>>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
>>>>>>  
>>>>> I think it's a no-brainer myself.  I have a Raspi, but I just don't
>>>>> see it competing with the bbb
>>>>>
>>>> OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi
>>>> discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed.
>>>> I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have
>>>> learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone.
>>>>
>>>> So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be
>>>> like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board?
>>>> I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected
>>>> devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would
>>>> rather have a much "wider" I/O device, maybe a couple
>>>> dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins.
>>>>
>>>> So, any thoughts would be welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Jon
>>>>  
>>> Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace
>>> these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the
>>> more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight
>>> into our existing BOB's.  Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could
>>> put the right signals on the right pins.  That generally is up to us
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than
>>> one EPP port can supply.  But I haven't studied it well enough to know if
>>> the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector.  That would be pure
>>> icing on the cake IMO if it did.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene
>>> -- 
>>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>>> My web page:<http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene>  is up!
>>> My views
>>> <http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml>
>>> There's so much pla

Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Steve Blackmore]

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:41:46 -0700, you wrote:


>Thank you! This is like getting a an unexpected new toy :-)

Agreed, fantastic work by Michael. 

I, like many others, would love to build a small footprint controller
with no PC involvement, but there are still those niggling long term
bugs and restrictions within LinuxCNC itself that put me off investing
any money on something 100% LinuxCNC exclusive.

Steve Blackmore
--

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[dave]

Considering the fact that good BOB's cost pretty much what the B3 does
being able to plug to current BOB's would be nice. 

Dave



On Sun, 2013-04-28 at 14:55 -0700, Greg Bernard wrote:
> I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, a parallel port 
> adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to be used. But the ideal would be 
> a dedicated cape that could provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico 
> Systems board.  
> 
> +++
> "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world 
> is either a madman or an economist."
> -Kenneth Boulding, economist
> “How unfortunate that the Earth’s first intelligent social animal is a tribal 
> carnivore” 
> -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> >To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
> >Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD
> >card image
> > 
> >
> >On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine:
> >
> >> Eric Keller wrote:
> >> > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson  
> >wrote:
> >> >> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
> >> > 
> >> > I think it's a no-brainer myself.  I have a Raspi, but I just don't
> >> > see it competing with the bbb
> >> 
> >> OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi
> >> discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed.
> >> I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have
> >> learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone.
> >> 
> >> So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be
> >> like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board?
> >> I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected
> >> devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would
> >> rather have a much "wider" I/O device, maybe a couple
> >> dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins.
> >> 
> >> So, any thoughts would be welcome.
> >> 
> >> Jon
> >
> >Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace 
> >these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the 
> >more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight 
> >into our existing BOB's.  Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could 
> >put the right signals on the right pins.  That generally is up to us 
> >anyway.
> >
> >Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than 
> >one EPP port can supply.  But I haven't studied it well enough to know if 
> >the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector.  That would be pure 
> >icing on the cake IMO if it did.
> >
> >Cheers, Gene
> >-- 
> >"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> >-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> >My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
> >My views 
> ><http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml>
> >There's so much plastic in this culture that vinyl leopard skin is
> >becoming an endangered synthetic.
> >-- Lily Tomlin
> >A pen in the hand of this president is far more
> >dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
> > law-abiding citizens.
> >
> >--
> >Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
> >New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service 
> >that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
> >browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
> >and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr
> >___
> >Emc-users mailing list
> >Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> --
> Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
> New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service 
> that delivers powerful full stack a

Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Jon Elson]

Kenneth Lerman wrote:
>
> I think if you look at the capabilities of the Bone, it might be hard to 
> justify adding your board. (Note that I haven't looked at the detailed 
> specs.)
>
> The Bone has multiple encoders support. How does the rate supported 
> compare with the rate of your boards? The Bone can drive multiple 
> steppers at a high rate. Compare with your boards. The Bone has multiple 
> pwm outputs. How do the number of outputs, resolution, and rate compare 
> to your boards?
>   
My boards have high-current 5V outputs, and the latest PWM controller has
switch-settable digital filters on the encoder inputs, so you can have 
1, 2.5,
5 and 10 MHz count rates from the encoders.  The PWM counters are
clocked at 40 MHz, so you can have 800 pulse width steps at a 50 KHz
PWM frequency.

I think the Bone has 3.3 V I/O (the original Beagle was 1.8 V) with
limited current capability, so you still need some kind of level/current
translator for a lot of things.

The PPMC system has 16-bit DACs for analog velocity servos, and
each DIO board has 16 opto-isolated digital inputs plus place to
mount 8 solid state relays for output.  You can plug in multiple
DIO boards as needed for more complex systems.

I think our stepper controller may be superseded by what the
PRU step generator will likely be able to do, but it can go to
300,000 steps/second, with only 3% timing jitter.  And, it
can handle encoder inputs also.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Greg Bernard]

    I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, a parallel port 
adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to be used. But the ideal would be a 
dedicated cape that could provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico Systems 
board.  

+++
"Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is 
either a madman or an economist."
        -Kenneth Boulding, economist
“How unfortunate that the Earth’s first intelligent social animal is a tribal 
carnivore” 
    -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist




>
> From: Gene Heskett 
>To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
>Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD  
>card image
> 
>
>On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine:
>
>> Eric Keller wrote:
>> > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson  
>wrote:
>> >> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
>> > 
>> > I think it's a no-brainer myself.  I have a Raspi, but I just don't
>> > see it competing with the bbb
>> 
>> OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi
>> discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed.
>> I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have
>> learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone.
>> 
>> So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be
>> like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board?
>> I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected
>> devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would
>> rather have a much "wider" I/O device, maybe a couple
>> dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins.
>> 
>> So, any thoughts would be welcome.
>> 
>> Jon
>
>Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace 
>these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the 
>more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight 
>into our existing BOB's.  Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could 
>put the right signals on the right pins.  That generally is up to us 
>anyway.
>
>Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than 
>one EPP port can supply.  But I haven't studied it well enough to know if 
>the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector.  That would be pure 
>icing on the cake IMO if it did.
>
>Cheers, Gene
>-- 
>"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up!
>My views 
><http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml>
>There's so much plastic in this culture that vinyl leopard skin is
>becoming an endangered synthetic.
>        -- Lily Tomlin
>A pen in the hand of this president is far more
>dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
>         law-abiding citizens.
>
>--
>Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt
>New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service 
>that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
>browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic
>and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr
>___
>Emc-users mailing list
>Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine:

> Eric Keller wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson  
wrote:
> >> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
> > 
> > I think it's a no-brainer myself.  I have a Raspi, but I just don't
> > see it competing with the bbb
> 
> OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi
> discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed.
> I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have
> learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone.
> 
> So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be
> like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board?
> I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected
> devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would
> rather have a much "wider" I/O device, maybe a couple
> dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins.
> 
> So, any thoughts would be welcome.
> 
> Jon

Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace 
these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the 
more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight 
into our existing BOB's.  Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could 
put the right signals on the right pins.  That generally is up to us 
anyway.

Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than 
one EPP port can supply.  But I haven't studied it well enough to know if 
the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector.  That would be pure 
icing on the cake IMO if it did.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Dave]

I have some RPIs and I think the BBBs will run rings around the RPIs...

The PRUs seem to be the clincher.

RPIs are fine for some things, but I just ordered a couple Beaglebone 
Blacks from Mouser.  They are suppose to ship this week.

The capes in the works are impressive..

The fact that Michael has a loadable version of LinuxCNC ... slam dunk.

Looks like a winner to me.  I want to try this out

If you want to grab a BBB, Mouser says they are going to fill 
outstanding orders with an incoming batch of 8500 units this next week.
They currently have a backorder of 8100 plus right now.  After that I 
have no idea how long it might take to get a BBB.

http://www.mouser.com/beagleboardorg/

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/BeagleBoard-by-CircuitCo/BB-BBLK-000/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugh6wNMONnDuAbTwbrIHVw4R%2f%252bth5Q2M%2fX2Gs60muroNw%3d%3d

The only reason I say this is that I waited a very long time for my 
first RPIs..

And no...I don't work for Mouser or have any connection to the 
BeagleBone...

Dave

On 4/28/2013 3:27 PM, Eric Keller wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:
>
>
>> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
>>
>>  
> I think it's a no-brainer myself.  I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it
> competing with the bbb
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Kenneth Lerman]

On 4/28/2013 5:15 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> Eric Keller wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
>>>
>>>  
>> I think it's a no-brainer myself.  I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it
>> competing with the bbb
> OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi
> discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed.
> I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have
> learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone.
>
> So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be
> like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board?
> I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected
> devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would
> rather have a much "wider" I/O device, maybe a couple
> dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins.
>
> So, any thoughts would be welcome.
>
> Jon
Jon,

I think if you look at the capabilities of the Bone, it might be hard to 
justify adding your board. (Note that I haven't looked at the detailed 
specs.)

The Bone has multiple encoders support. How does the rate supported 
compare with the rate of your boards? The Bone can drive multiple 
steppers at a high rate. Compare with your boards. The Bone has multiple 
pwm outputs. How do the number of outputs, resolution, and rate compare 
to your boards?

I think that those are key questions you will need to be able to answer.

Regards,

Ken

>
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Jon Elson]

Eric Keller wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:
>
>   
>> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
>>
>> 
>
> I think it's a no-brainer myself.  I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it
> competing with the bbb
OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi
discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed.
I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have
learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone.

So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be
like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board?
I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected
devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would
rather have a much "wider" I/O device, maybe a couple
dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins.

So, any thoughts would be welcome.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Kenneth Lerman]

Beaglebone -- TI chip. Intended for industrial use. Family will be 
available forever. The boards are open source.

Raspberry Pi -- Broadcom chip. Intended for cell phone use. A new model 
every year. The boards are open source -- you just can't buy the chips 
for them.

The PRU on the Beaglebone is a deal maker.

Ken

On 4/28/2013 1:55 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> Michael Haberler wrote:
>> As promised, I have prepared an SD card image for the beaglebone 
>> ready-to-run.
>>
> Fantastic work, many thanks!
>>partition 2 - ext4, size 3.8GB or greater,
>>
> In a number of places, ext4 has been reported to be associated with
> early failure
> of SD cards.  I'm not sure whether to believe this, but I have seen so
> many reports,
> I worry about it.
>
> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?  I have been
> thinking
> about redoing my old BeagleBoard EPP converter for one of these boards,
> but didn't want to start until it was decided which way to go.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Eric Keller]

On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

>
> Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?
>

I think it's a no-brainer myself.  I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it
competing with the bbb
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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Ralph Stirling]

At $49 vs. $35, I would take the new BeagleBone Black any day over
the Raspberry Pi.  The processor is from TI (with long processor experience)
instead of Broadcom.  The processor also has great peripherals for motion
control (not present in the Broadcom chip).  The only thing the RPi has
going for it is volume production, but that could fizzle very quickly if the
fad passes or Broadcom drops the chip.  After all, the 100K volumes of
the RPi are not large for a commodity supplier like Broadcom.  The fact that
a turn-key LinuxCNC image is already out for the BeagleBone is the clincher.
Thank you again to Michael and helpers.

-- Ralph

From: Jon Elson [el...@pico-systems.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 10:55 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card 
image

Michael Haberler wrote:
> As promised, I have prepared an SD card image for the beaglebone ready-to-run.
>
Fantastic work, many thanks!
>   partition 2 - ext4, size 3.8GB or greater,
>
In a number of places, ext4 has been reported to be associated with
early failure
of SD cards.  I'm not sure whether to believe this, but I have seen so
many reports,
I worry about it.

Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?  I have been
thinking
about redoing my old BeagleBoard EPP converter for one of these boards,
but didn't want to start until it was decided which way to go.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Jon Elson]

Michael Haberler wrote:
> As promised, I have prepared an SD card image for the beaglebone ready-to-run.
>   
Fantastic work, many thanks!
>   partition 2 - ext4, size 3.8GB or greater, 
>   
In a number of places, ext4 has been reported to be associated with 
early failure
of SD cards.  I'm not sure whether to believe this, but I have seen so 
many reports,
I worry about it.

Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi?  I have been 
thinking
about redoing my old BeagleBoard EPP converter for one of these boards,
but didn't want to start until it was decided which way to go.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[David Bagby]

Michael,
Thank you! This is like getting a an unexpected new toy :-)
Dave



Message: 3
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 16:09:37 +0200
From: Michael Haberler
Subject: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD
cardimage
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

As promised, I have prepared an SD card image for the beaglebone ready-to-run.





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[Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image

[Michael Haberler]

As promised, I have prepared an SD card image for the beaglebone ready-to-run.

README: 
http://static.mah.priv.at/public/beaglebone/starterkit/README.beaglebone-sd
download from:  http://static.mah.priv.at/public/beaglebone/starterkit/

Please understand this as a 'raw hide, some assembly required' image for users 
who can help themselves in a bare linux environment - this is not a polished 
'pacakge', no desktop, no colored buttons to start LinuxCNC.

I'd like to thank all folks who beta-tested this and suggested improvements: 
Kent, Charles, David, Yishin Li, Amit.

- Michael

ps: Gscreen runs nicely too. Axis is real CPU hog. Emcweb is very lightweight. 
All advanced features in master work fine too!

 README.beaglebone-sd 

What is it:

An 4GB size SD card image for the BeagleBone board, which contains:

- Debian Wheezy
- the Xenomai 3.2.21 kernel with Xenomai 3.6 support in-kernel
- the Xenomai 2.6 runtime support installed (master)
- all prerequisite packages for LinuxCNC installed
- two LinuxCNC development branches installed ready to run:
  arm335x-hal-pru-module-emcweb  (v2.5_branch - based)
  arm335x-hal-pru-module-emcweb-master (master-based)
  both branches track git://git.mah.priv.at/emc2-dev.git

Alternatively, tar files of the boot and root partitions:

-rw-r--r-- 1 mah mah 3974103040 Apr 23 16:56 beaglebone_sd4GB.img
-rw-r--r-- 1 mah mah 380457 Apr 23 16:56 boot.tar.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 mah mah 1704164777 Apr 23 17:28 root.tar.gz

The kernel and include files used in this image is here, it is a slightly
updated version of what has been available so far (still 3.2.21/2.6 based,
but all patches from arago/v3.2-staging applied):

-rw-r--r-- 1 mah mah9617304 Apr 21 09:50 linux-3.2.21-xenomai+.tar.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 mah mah 824139 Apr 21 09:51 
linux-headers-3.2.21-xenomai+.tar.gz


How to get it to run:

- download 
- copy to a 4GB  MicroSD card:
  determine which device the SD card has, and make sure it is umounted
  assuming the card is at /dev/sdb, run this

  $ sudo dd if=beaglebone_sd4GB.img of=/dev/sdb bs=10M

- insert into beaglebone SD slot abd boot

  Alternatively you can extract the tar files to a mounted SD card which is
  formatted like so:
  partition 1 - VFAT, size 64MB, formatted as vfat, marked as bootable
  partition 2 - ext4, size 3.8GB or greater, 


How to log in:

user root password linuxcnc
user linuxcnc password linuxcnc


Running LinuxCNC:

a. Let the beaglebone complete the boot process.
b. From the X-server host enter the command
$ ssh -X -l linuxcnc 
c. answer the password prompt 
d. after login is complete continue as outlined below.


Charles' super-high-speed stepper demo config can be run like so:

$ cd ~/linuxcnc-pru-emcweb/configs/pru-examples
$ linuxcnc pru-stepper.ini

To run the miniEMC2 Web server config:

$ cd ~/linuxcnc-pru-emcweb/configs/sim
$ linuxcnc emcweb.ini

Then connect to the webserver at http://:8080

What happens on startup in /etc/rc.local:

echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/hung_task_timeout_secs
modprobe uio_pruss  # load the PRU support driver
# enable group 1002 (xenomai) to use Xenomai RT functions
echo 1002 > /sys/module/xeno_nucleus/parameters/xenomai_gid

# I dont understand why this is needed:
# NB: here comes your security hole!
chmod 644 /dev/mem


Partitions on sd card:

Mine looks like so (if I plug in the SD card on some other Linux machine):

$ fdisk /dev/sdb
You will not be able to write the partition table.

Command (m for help): p

Disk /dev/sdb: 3974 MB, 3974103040 bytes
123 heads, 62 sectors/track, 1017 cylinders, total 7761920 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x

   Device Boot  Start End  Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1   *2048  133119   65536b  W95 FAT32
/dev/sdb2  133120 7761919 3814400   83  Linux

Command (m for help): 

The output of 'sfdisk -d' on the beaglebone looks like so:

# partition table of /dev/mmcblk0
unit: sectors

/dev/mmcblk0p1 : start= 2048, size=   131072, Id= e, bootable
/dev/mmcblk0p2 : start=   133120, size= 15144960, Id=83
/dev/mmcblk0p3 : start=0, size=0, Id= 0
/dev/mmcblk0p4 : start=0, size=0, Id= 0
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