Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
Viesturs, if your laser seems too bulky - have you tried transporting the beam to the work head via optic fibres? In the laser division of my former company, we had several powerful (many, say, 50 watts output) gold vapor ans other lasers that weighed about a ton each and filled a whole labratory room. The beams were focused by a microscope objective and transported all the way through the building by a single glass fibre (later on by plastic wires, try a guitar string!) into the surgery room. Sometimes the fibres had to be cut off as the beam burned their light entrance area. Peter Viesturs La-cis schrieb: 2012/1/28 Rafael Skodlar ra...@linwin.com: Of course that won't work with most if not all the suggestions I've seen so far. If I understand it correctly, your laser already has a circuit to drive it at reasonable current to do it's magic. Circuit I suggested earlier was under assumption you have a bare laser diode connected to it. You cannot daisy chain circuits one after another and expect laser to work properly. Relays are out of question IMO because they are too slow mechanical devices with many other drawbacks for this application. I see no reason to bring in solid state relays into the picture either. You are not driving high voltage stuff. You either need to modify your PCB that came with the laser diode or build a new circuit. Maybe you can reverse engineer that PCB and use one spot to inject signal from the EMC side. Ed, Kirk, Rafael, thank You! Given my lack of skills in electronics, I think that interfering and modifying the pcb that comes with laser is the last thing I want to do. Here are some pics of the laser and its pcb I took late in last night with my phone (it was late enough that I forgot to upload them yesterday evening): http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.54.59-QzJqS24n.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.55.16-mx4U2GiU.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.55.36-wtANcKHw.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.56.28-ySpITI8d.jpg I think that I will try the use a relay approach, because: 1) it is simple enough for me to do it; 2) it does not require modifying existing laser's board; 3) it will be fast enough for me, because I am going to use the laser in a a la milling fashion - move laser along the line to be burned instead of moving it back and forth and switching it on, when necessary, because: a) the laser is weak, so by definition it can't burn quickly; b) machine is heavy and relatively slow, compared to normal laser engravers, so it would not be able to handle very powerful laser anyway; c) g-code generation - I have no idea, how to generate g-code for normal laser engraving, but I know, how to do it for a la milling style. BTW client was happy, when he saw the first hand-burned lines in the wood that I managed to do last night in that small moment, when the laser was working... Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/29 Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de: Viesturs, if your laser seems too bulky - have you tried transporting the beam to the work head via optic fibres? The laser itself is less than 100g, so that is not the problem. The machine itself has heavy construction as its primary task is wood routing. That is why it is not very agile. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On 28 January 2012 06:23, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: BTW client was happy, when he saw the first hand-burned lines in the wood that I managed to do last night in that small moment, when the laser was working... Can I suggest two other options? 1) Put the existing laser into stock for a future project and buy one of the ones shown on eBay earlier with a TTL on/off control. or 2) Try to find an SSR that will do the trick, there are some that look like they should work: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solid-state-relays/7203940/ (I found that one by filtering for current carrying capacity then sorting by price, and looking down the list for the first DC-rated one. It needs 10mA to switch, which I think is OK for a Mesa card) -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On 01/27/2012 10:23 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/1/28 Rafael Skodlarra...@linwin.com: Of course that won't work with most if not all the suggestions I've seen so far. If I understand it correctly, your laser already has a circuit to drive it at reasonable current to do it's magic. Circuit I suggested earlier was under assumption you have a bare laser diode connected to it. You cannot daisy chain circuits one after another and expect laser to work properly. Relays are out of question IMO because they are too slow mechanical devices with many other drawbacks for this application. I see no reason to bring in solid state relays into the picture either. You are not driving high voltage stuff. You either need to modify your PCB that came with the laser diode or build a new circuit. Maybe you can reverse engineer that PCB and use one spot to inject signal from the EMC side. Ed, Kirk, Rafael, thank You! Given my lack of skills in electronics, I think that interfering and modifying the pcb that comes with laser is the last thing I want to do. Here are some pics of the laser and its pcb I took late in last night with my phone (it was late enough that I forgot to upload them yesterday evening): http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.54.59-QzJqS24n.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.55.16-mx4U2GiU.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.55.36-wtANcKHw.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.56.28-ySpITI8d.jpg I think that I will try the use a relay approach, because: 1) it is simple enough for me to do it; 2) it does not require modifying existing laser's board; 3) it will be fast enough for me, because I am going to use the laser in a a la milling fashion - move laser along the line to be burned instead of moving it back and forth and switching it on, when necessary, because: a) the laser is weak, so by definition it can't burn quickly; That will cause missed or late start unless you compensate that with stepper or servo waiting for the relay/laser delay. Photo sensor in a loop (PID) could fix that but that's more work than creating a simple current limit circuit with LM317 and a few other components as noted earlier. If all else fails, you can burn a T-shirt for yourself :-) http://blog.craftzine.com/archive/2011/07/diana_engs_laser_lace_tops.html b) machine is heavy and relatively slow, compared to normal laser engravers, so it would not be able to handle very powerful laser anyway; Not necessarily true. Not knowing how it looks like it's hard to tell. Remember that light can be transmitted over a long distance around the corners using mirrors like this one: http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=4895.0 as long as it's not too foggy. c) g-code generation - I have no idea, how to generate g-code for normal laser engraving, but I know, how to do it for a la milling style. BTW client was happy, when he saw the first hand-burned lines in the wood that I managed to do last night in that small moment, when the laser was working... Viesturs more links: http://www.laoslaser.org/ these guys have a roadmap something suggested on this list: http://wiki.laoslaser.org/index.php/Roadmap I hope we see some pictures of the final system. -- Rafael -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/26 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 08:40 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: An off-the-shelf solid state relay might do the job too. The relay was my first idea, but it turned out pretty quickly that there are no such relays that could be driven directly by Mesa card - even those with 5V coils on control side would require too much current for gpio pin to sink - I think that smallest I found was around 100 mA. I just wanted to tell that I resoldered optoisolator and now it is kind of working correctly. Laser is shining. The problem is that it is not burning the wood. Is the voltage drop in the wiring too high? How can I help there - use thicker wire leads? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
Viesturs, it seems to me that your laser diode is just acting as a normal LED, not as a laser. This state is only achieved at a very distinct point up on top of the voltage/current curve. The laser diode supply electronics must take care of this which is a rather delicate controlling task. In other words, the producer of that electronics thing is responsible for keeping the correct working point. Mostly there isn't much to adjust on them. Are you sure you are using the correct supply voltage as specified? If this certain voltage is not reached, the diode will not be brought up to the laser point, if it is too high, the diode could soon release its magic smoke. Peter I just wanted to tell that I resoldered optoisolator and now it is kind of working correctly. Laser is shining. The problem is that it is not burning the wood. Is the voltage drop in the wiring too high? How can I help there - use thicker wire leads? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 10:07:52 AM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/26 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 08:40 +0200, Viesturs Lؤپcis wrote: An off-the-shelf solid state relay might do the job too. The relay was my first idea, but it turned out pretty quickly that there are no such relays that could be driven directly by Mesa card - even those with 5V coils on control side would require too much current for gpio pin to sink - I think that smallest I found was around 100 mA. I just wanted to tell that I resoldered optoisolator and now it is kind of working correctly. Laser is shining. The problem is that it is not burning the wood. Is the voltage drop in the wiring too high? How can I help there - use thicker wire leads? That could be one bit of help, but I would be making measurements to determine where the loss is. The idea being to grease the loudest squeek first. :) Does it burn wood if your circuit is bypassed? How much voltage is the supply making when the laser is on by bypassing your circuit? Measure at the supply, and at the laser to get an idea of the wiring losses. More than a .05 volt difference and I would up the wire gage. If loss in your circuit is the difference in whether it burns wood at a usable feed rate or not, then how much on state voltage loss there is in that output transistor?, which could be anything from 150 to 6 or 700 milli volts. This is one of the reasons I suggested the use of a power hexfet device earlier in this thread, which when forward biased by at least 5 volts, could reduce that particular loss to 10 or 20 milli volts as they have on resistances in the milli-ohm range. It (the hexfet) also switches states 10 to 1000 times faster than a 2n3055 when given adequately low impedance gate drive. When switching at high rates, which you aren't here, the hexfet runs cool, not hot. The gate of a hexfet can look like driving a .1 microfarad capacitor for the really big ones, so lots of drive is needed to prevent as much as possible, the heat surge when it is in the middle of the switching transition. Even small ones can be effectively a .005 u-f capacitor. This means the driver stage will need large, low impedance bypass capacitors right on its power pins, 2 u-f paper/mylar would not be overkill in higher current circuits. Because old faded to too low a voltage computer PSU's are replaced 99% of the time because the capacitors have failed, they can be an excellent source of power hexfet's for a circuit like this. You can have a suitable hexfet in your hand in half an hour, but while extracting it, wrap some bare wire wrapping wire around all 3 pins so that it is shorted and won't be blown by static. Don't remove the shorting wire until it is in your new circuit. You can usually use the numbers stamped on these devices to look them up and download the data sheet pdf, I have been able to at least. A good driver for a hexfet can be cobbled up out of a 4000 family cmos hex invertor by using all 6 gates in the package in parallel, and your 4n2x can drive it direct with a suitable pullup resistor to the 5 volt rail let the 4n2x pull that point to ground when on. That will drive the outputs of the hex invertor high going all the way to the + rail, turning on the hexfet at the same time to 4n2x is on. I would expect that today, there are better devices than the 4000 family cmos to do such a job, but the 4000 families ability to work at supply rail voltages well above their nominal 15 volt rating has been amazing to me. I once used a 4028 hex decoder to add edging signals to a character generator at a tv station in about 1979, bearing in mind they get faster at the higher voltages. It worked well but slightly warm at 28 volts for many years. What I am saying here is that my knowledge of available parts to do a certain job is dated, like me. :) What is the current in amps this laser needs from its nominally 5 volt supply? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Be sure to evaluate the bird-hand/bush ratio. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/27 Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de: Viesturs, it seems to me that your laser diode is just acting as a normal LED, not as a laser. This state is only achieved at a very distinct point up on top of the voltage/current curve. The laser diode supply electronics must take care of this which is a rather delicate controlling task. In other words, the producer of that electronics thing is responsible for keeping the correct working point. Mostly there isn't much to adjust on them. Are you sure you are using the correct supply voltage as specified? If this certain voltage is not reached, the diode will not be brought up to the laser point, if it is too high, the diode could soon release its magic smoke. Thanks, Peter! Well, it has a separate board with several capacitors, resistors and something with 3 legs, large heatsink and LM317T written on it. It is written that it requires 12VDC and consumes ~1A. I am providing the power from PC's PSU. Gene, thank You for explanation! I really appreciate Your help and detailed information, but all I understood from that - I can extract a hexfet from dead PC PSU. All the remaining stuff, including use of hexfet and driving it - it is beyond my knowledge of electronics. Laser _was_ burning wood, when attached directly (with less than 1 m long, 0,5mm^2 wire) to the driver board. It did not want to burn wood (but at least it was shining), when attached, where it belongs, on top of the Z plate. There is ~5m of very thin wire, going up there. Now I cannot get it to shine even when attached back directly to driver board. That crap is driving me nuts... But I also have untuned servo problem running in parallel to this, so it seems that I am stuck here for at least one more day. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 12:08:34 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de: Viesturs, it seems to me that your laser diode is just acting as a normal LED, not as a laser. This state is only achieved at a very distinct point up on top of the voltage/current curve. The laser diode supply electronics must take care of this which is a rather delicate controlling task. In other words, the producer of that electronics thing is responsible for keeping the correct working point. Mostly there isn't much to adjust on them. Are you sure you are using the correct supply voltage as specified? If this certain voltage is not reached, the diode will not be brought up to the laser point, if it is too high, the diode could soon release its magic smoke. Thanks, Peter! Well, it has a separate board with several capacitors, resistors and something with 3 legs, large heatsink and LM317T written on it. It is written that it requires 12VDC and consumes ~1A. I am providing the power from PC's PSU. Is there perchance an adjustment potentiometer? The LM317T is a linear regulator device and could be made adjustable so as to compensate for the wiring and switching loss in your controller. Gene, thank You for explanation! I really appreciate Your help and detailed information, but all I understood from that - I can extract a hexfet from dead PC PSU. All the remaining stuff, including use of hexfet and driving it - it is beyond my knowledge of electronics. I'm sorry. I try to describe things in understandable terms and obviously I didn't bridge the gap very well. Laser _was_ burning wood, when attached directly (with less than 1 m long, 0,5mm^2 wire) to the driver board. It did not want to burn wood (but at least it was shining), when attached, where it belongs, on top of the Z plate. There is ~5m of very thin wire, going up there. Now I cannot get it to shine even when attached back directly to driver board. That crap is driving me nuts... That very thin wire will probably need replaced with something heavier while maintaining flexibility for long life. Or perhaps the LM317T needs turned up a few hundred millivolts. See the sample schematic shown here: http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html#Overview Perhaps the maker used a fixed resistor in place of R2, the adjustable one? Given parts tolerances it could already be borderline low. Given that 20-100 millisecond response time probably won't be a show stopper, another thought that may be easier for you to fab on site would be to use your controller circuit to switch a relay. That, and heavier wire might be the better method as opposed to turning the supply up .250 additional volts because someone may replace a future broken cable with an even heavier one which would let the magic smoke out of the laser. But I also have untuned servo problem running in parallel to this, so it seems that I am stuck here for at least one more day. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them. -- Bill Vaughn -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Fri, 2012-01-27 at 16:55 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/1/26 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 08:40 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: An off-the-shelf solid state relay might do the job too. The relay was my first idea, but it turned out pretty quickly that there are no such relays that could be driven directly by Mesa card - even those with 5V coils on control side would require too much current for gpio pin to sink - I think that smallest I found was around 100 mA. Solid state relays generally have an opto-isolator built in, with the same LED input, so only require a few milliamps to turn on. For instance: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/DC60S3/CC1126-ND/221844 http://www.crydom.com/en/Tech/crydom_us.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_state_relay A couple of things to note, ssr's don't turn OFF all the way, they have a very slight leakage, which mechanical relays don't do since the contacts are separated by air. Also, it is temping to use AC ssr's with a DC load, but this won't work because the AC relays need the AC zero crossing in order to switch OFF. I just wanted to tell that I resoldered optoisolator and now it is kind of working correctly. Laser is shining. The problem is that it is not burning the wood. Is the voltage drop in the wiring too high? How can I help there - use thicker wire leads? Viesturs Measure the voltage at the laser with a meter across the GND and dc 9 - 12 volt terminals. If it dips below 9 Volts you most likely need to find a way to bring the voltage up. It apears the laser needs only 1.3 Amps so any decently sized wire should work fine. Check to make sure the TTL terminal comes up to TTL voltage level, maybe between 3 and 5 Volts. I believe LinuxCNC should feed this pin with a 20kHz PWM or PDM signal to control the laser's output strength. Also check to make sure the laser can focus on the target. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: Is there perchance an adjustment potentiometer? The LM317T is a linear regulator device and could be made adjustable so as to compensate for the wiring and switching loss in your controller. Nope, I see 2 resistors in series for the middle leg. I'm sorry. I try to describe things in understandable terms and obviously I didn't bridge the gap very well. I think that You did pretty well, it is just thatI do not get that pretty well :) That very thin wire will probably need replaced with something heavier while maintaining flexibility for long life. Or perhaps the LM317T needs turned up a few hundred millivolts. See the sample schematic shown here: http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html#Overview Perhaps the maker used a fixed resistor in place of R2, the adjustable one? Given parts tolerances it could already be borderline low. Given that 20-100 millisecond response time probably won't be a show stopper, another thought that may be easier for you to fab on site would be to use your controller circuit to switch a relay. That, and heavier wire might be the better method as opposed to turning the supply up .250 additional volts because someone may replace a future broken cable with an even heavier one which would let the magic smoke out of the laser. I looked carefully and it looks to me that there are 2 resistors in series, where is R1 in that scheme and that connection to GND through R2 - I do not see that. Ok, I think I have to explain one thing that was missed and seems to be misunderstood: I do not want to detach laser board from the laser itself - they are connected with ~40cm of wire and I would like to keep it that way. That thin wire is between my diy driver and the laser board. So I will try to figure out, how to replace the wire. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2a1771bee9#ht_2189wt_1080 Short URL: http://alturl.com/9t7fg Peak Wavelength : 808 nm Color: Infrared Visibility : INVISIBLE Diode Beam divergence: 12/100 deg. Emitting area: 50 x 2 µm Module Output Power : 800 mW Diode Output Power : 1000 mW Modulation : TTL Max. Modulation Frequency: 20 KHz Focus Range : 1 inch to 5 inches Warm Up Time : 1 Minute Power Stability : %5, 20 minutes Spectral Line width : 10 nm Operating Current: 1300 mA Operating Voltage: 9-12 Vdc Laser Diode Cooling Mode : Aluminum Heat Sink Driver Cooling Mode : Aluminum Heat Sink Expected Lifetime: 5000 hours Power Supply Required: 9-12 volts DC 1.3 Amp Applications : CNC Cutting, Material Processing, http://www.listingfactoryhost.com/users/kerimkale/eBayAuctions/346554dgf/images/DSCN6716_360697722_thumb.jpg Short URL: http://alturl.com/fynsz http://www.listingfactoryhost.com/users/kerimkale/eBayAuctions/346554dgf/images/DSCN6705_865650630_thumb.jpg Short URL: http://alturl.com/j4aof I suspect the power to the laser driver just needs to be switched as an Enable, with the driver's TTL input modulated by PWM/PDM to turn the bean on and control the strength. I have zero experience with lasers, so grains of salt are recommended. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 Almost... Manufacturer the same, laser diode looks the same, but is rated for 700 mW, the electronics board is different. That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. I would be happy to do it this way. Unfortunately there are only 2 input terminals, labeled + and - Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:36:21 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: Is there perchance an adjustment potentiometer? The LM317T is a linear regulator device and could be made adjustable so as to compensate for the wiring and switching loss in your controller. Nope, I see 2 resistors in series for the middle leg. I'm sorry. I try to describe things in understandable terms and obviously I didn't bridge the gap very well. I think that You did pretty well, it is just thatI do not get that pretty well :) That very thin wire will probably need replaced with something heavier while maintaining flexibility for long life. Or perhaps the LM317T needs turned up a few hundred millivolts. See the sample schematic shown here: http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html#Overview Perhaps the maker used a fixed resistor in place of R2, the adjustable one? Given parts tolerances it could already be borderline low. Given that 20-100 millisecond response time probably won't be a show stopper, another thought that may be easier for you to fab on site would be to use your controller circuit to switch a relay. That, and heavier wire might be the better method as opposed to turning the supply up .250 additional volts because someone may replace a future broken cable with an even heavier one which would let the magic smoke out of the laser. I looked carefully and it looks to me that there are 2 resistors in series, where is R1 in that scheme and that connection to GND through R2 - I do not see that. Could be hidden by a via thru the board I suppose. But see below. Ok, I think I have to explain one thing that was missed and seems to be misunderstood: I do not want to detach laser board from the laser itself - they are connected with ~40cm of wire and I would like to keep it that way. My mistake, I was under the impression the psu was a separate item that could have been frame mounted several meters away. That thin wire is between my diy driver and the laser board. So I will try to figure out, how to replace the wire. That depends. Can, if you just short your device, burn wood? If not, or only very much slower than you expected, then the wire is too small. However, this gives me another better idea, that of putting your DIY switching device right at the laser, essentially doing away with the wiring losses, and use the existing small wire going to it for the logic signal to control it. That seems like the most serviceable solution to me, quit trying to send the amps up and down a small wire, just send the controlling signal. I am assuming that the relatively small currents your DIY needs can be supplied by the lasers own supply, removing the need to also send your DIY a pair of power leads of its own. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene We have only two things to worry about: That things will never get back to normal, and that they already have. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:50:53 PM Kirk Wallace did opine: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Laser- Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2 a1771bee9#ht_2189wt_1080 Short URL: http://alturl.com/9t7fg Peak Wavelength : 808 nm Color: Infrared Visibility : INVISIBLE Diode Beam divergence: 12/100 deg. Emitting area: 50 x 2 آµm Module Output Power : 800 mW Diode Output Power : 1000 mW Modulation : TTL Max. Modulation Frequency: 20 KHz Focus Range : 1 inch to 5 inches Warm Up Time : 1 Minute Power Stability : %5, 20 minutes Spectral Line width : 10 nm Operating Current: 1300 mA Operating Voltage: 9-12 Vdc Laser Diode Cooling Mode : Aluminum Heat Sink Driver Cooling Mode : Aluminum Heat Sink Expected Lifetime: 5000 hours Power Supply Required: 9-12 volts DC 1.3 Amp Applications : CNC Cutting, Material Processing, http://www.listingfactoryhost.com/users/kerimkale/eBayAuctions/346554dgf /images/DSCN6716_360697722_thumb.jpg Short URL: http://alturl.com/fynsz http://www.listingfactoryhost.com/users/kerimkale/eBayAuctions/346554dgf /images/DSCN6705_865650630_thumb.jpg Short URL: http://alturl.com/j4aof I suspect the power to the laser driver just needs to be switched as an Enable, with the driver's TTL input modulated by PWM/PDM to turn the bean on and control the strength. I have zero experience with lasers, so grains of salt are recommended. And I suspect you are spot on, and that we have managed to make a larger problem out of it than it is. Viesters? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:52:19 PM andy pugh did opine: On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Lase r-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. With perhaps a piece of coax for the shielding? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:53:39 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Las er-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 Almost... Manufacturer the same, laser diode looks the same, but is rated for 700 mW, the electronics board is different. That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. I would be happy to do it this way. Unfortunately there are only 2 input terminals, labeled + and - Viesturs Link to the device? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: That depends. Can, if you just short your device, burn wood? If not, or only very much slower than you expected, then the wire is too small. I could. Now it seems that my diy stopped working again - laser receives ~3V DC regardless of the state of gpio output pin. I give up trying to get it working. However, this gives me another better idea, that of putting your DIY switching device right at the laser, essentially doing away with the wiring losses, and use the existing small wire going to it for the logic signal to control it. That seems like the most serviceable solution to me, quit trying to send the amps up and down a small wire, just send the controlling signal. I am assuming that the relatively small currents your DIY needs can be supplied by the lasers own supply, removing the need to also send your DIY a pair of power leads of its own. Thanks, sounds like a pretty good idea. Its only downside - I cannot implement it on the spot at client's site, because I have to redo my diy - it is on the same piece of pcb with 7 input optoisolators for home, limits and e-stop. 2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:50:53 PM Kirk Wallace did opine: I suspect the power to the laser driver just needs to be switched as an Enable, with the driver's TTL input modulated by PWM/PDM to turn the bean on and control the strength. I have zero experience with lasers, so grains of salt are recommended. And I suspect you are spot on, and that we have managed to make a larger problem out of it than it is. As I wrote - there are only 2 connection terminals for laser board, labeled + and - Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:53:39 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Las er-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 Almost... Manufacturer the same, laser diode looks the same, but is rated for 700 mW, the electronics board is different. That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. I would be happy to do it this way. Unfortunately there are only 2 input terminals, labeled + and - Viesturs Link to the device? Sorry, I do not understand, what do You mean. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 02:29:30 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: That depends. Can, if you just short your device, burn wood? If not, or only very much slower than you expected, then the wire is too small. I could. Now it seems that my diy stopped working again - laser receives ~3V DC regardless of the state of gpio output pin. I give up trying to get it working. However, this gives me another better idea, that of putting your DIY switching device right at the laser, essentially doing away with the wiring losses, and use the existing small wire going to it for the logic signal to control it. That seems like the most serviceable solution to me, quit trying to send the amps up and down a small wire, just send the controlling signal. I am assuming that the relatively small currents your DIY needs can be supplied by the lasers own supply, removing the need to also send your DIY a pair of power leads of its own. Thanks, sounds like a pretty good idea. Its only downside - I cannot implement it on the spot at client's site, because I have to redo my diy - it is on the same piece of pcb with 7 input optoisolators for home, limits and e-stop. Ouch, but that could probably be tossed together in a couple of hours on a perf board about 2 square from the shack, hopefully where you are there is a similar hobby store with that stuff? 2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:50:53 PM Kirk Wallace did opine: I suspect the power to the laser driver just needs to be switched as an Enable, with the driver's TTL input modulated by PWM/PDM to turn the bean on and control the strength. I have zero experience with lasers, so grains of salt are recommended. And I suspect you are spot on, and that we have managed to make a larger problem out of it than it is. As I wrote - there are only 2 connection terminals for laser board, labeled + and - Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration. -- Thomas Alva Edison -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 02:31:36 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:53:39 PM Viesturs Lؤپcis did opine: 2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable- Las er-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 Almost... Manufacturer the same, laser diode looks the same, but is rated for 700 mW, the electronics board is different. That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. I would be happy to do it this way. Unfortunately there are only 2 input terminals, labeled + and - Viesturs Link to the device? Sorry, I do not understand, what do You mean. URL to the makers web site and a brochure? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Well thaaat's okay. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Fri, 2012-01-27 at 12:26 -0500, gene heskett wrote: The LM317T is a linear regulator device and could be made adjustable so as to compensate for the wiring and switching loss in your controller. Judging from Viesturs' description in a later message: Nope, I see 2 resistors in series for the middle leg. The LM317 is probably wired up as a current controller, not a voltage controller: it's providing a fixed *current* to the laser diode, not regulating the voltage across the wires. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LM317_1A_ConstCurrent.svg In that mode, the voltage drop from controller to laser doesn't make much difference, at least within reasonable limits. What *does* matter is the voltage supplied to the controller (which sets the compliance it needs to regulate the laser current) and the current available from the raw +12 V supply (which must be greater than the laser current). Tweaking the resistors or substituting a voltage source for the laser controller will let the magic smoke out of the laser! The BD139 has a 1.5 A current rating, with a fairly low hFE = 40. That says it must have 1.0 / 40 = 25 mA of base current to saturate while carrying 1 A. More base current will be better. The 4N25 has a current transfer ratio of 20%, which means the LED current must be 25 / 0.20 = 125 mA. Anything less than that won't provide enough base drive, so the transistor won't saturate, so the laser controller won't get enough power, and the transistor will eventually overheat and die. However, you can't jam that much current through the 4N25's LED. At the risk of sounding like an Olde Farte, the easiest way to get this contraption working is a small mechanical relay: a few tens of mA in will switch an amp of DC on the output. No voltage drops, no muss, no fuss. The optoisolator won't have enough current capacity for the relay, so you will probably need the driver transistor to power the *relay* from the digital output. But there's no need for the optoisolator in that case. Or, of course, I could be completely wrong... -- Ed http://softsolder.com -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On 01/27/2012 11:07 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/1/27 gene heskettghesk...@wdtv.com: That depends. Can, if you just short your device, burn wood? If not, or only very much slower than you expected, then the wire is too small. I could. Now it seems that my diy stopped working again - laser receives ~3V DC regardless of the state of gpio output pin. I give up trying to get it working. However, this gives me another better idea, that of putting your DIY switching device right at the laser, essentially doing away with the wiring losses, and use the existing small wire going to it for the logic signal to control it. That seems like the most serviceable solution to me, quit trying to send the amps up and down a small wire, just send the controlling signal. I am assuming that the relatively small currents your DIY needs can be supplied by the lasers own supply, removing the need to also send your DIY a pair of power leads of its own. Thanks, sounds like a pretty good idea. Its only downside - I cannot implement it on the spot at client's site, because I have to redo my diy - it is on the same piece of pcb with 7 input optoisolators for home, limits and e-stop. 2012/1/27 gene heskettghesk...@wdtv.com: On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:50:53 PM Kirk Wallace did opine: I suspect the power to the laser driver just needs to be switched as an Enable, with the driver's TTL input modulated by PWM/PDM to turn the bean on and control the strength. I have zero experience with lasers, so grains of salt are recommended. And I suspect you are spot on, and that we have managed to make a larger problem out of it than it is. As I wrote - there are only 2 connection terminals for laser board, labeled + and - Viesturs Of course that won't work with most if not all the suggestions I've seen so far. If I understand it correctly, your laser already has a circuit to drive it at reasonable current to do it's magic. Circuit I suggested earlier was under assumption you have a bare laser diode connected to it. You cannot daisy chain circuits one after another and expect laser to work properly. Relays are out of question IMO because they are too slow mechanical devices with many other drawbacks for this application. I see no reason to bring in solid state relays into the picture either. You are not driving high voltage stuff. You either need to modify your PCB that came with the laser diode or build a new circuit. Maybe you can reverse engineer that PCB and use one spot to inject signal from the EMC side. This link would be a good starting point to get an idea what you are dealing with: http://www.rog8811.com/laserdriver.htm Suggested circuit uses same IC regulator LM317 as you mention having in currently included PCB I believe. Links that might help: http://laserboy.org/ http://repairfaq.cis.upenn.edu/sam/laserssl.htm#ssltoc You are practically dealing with the same issue as power LEDs except that laser diode provides coherent light: http://www.instructables.com/id/Power-LED-s---simplest-light-with-constant-current/ -- Rafael -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/28 Rafael Skodlar ra...@linwin.com: Of course that won't work with most if not all the suggestions I've seen so far. If I understand it correctly, your laser already has a circuit to drive it at reasonable current to do it's magic. Circuit I suggested earlier was under assumption you have a bare laser diode connected to it. You cannot daisy chain circuits one after another and expect laser to work properly. Relays are out of question IMO because they are too slow mechanical devices with many other drawbacks for this application. I see no reason to bring in solid state relays into the picture either. You are not driving high voltage stuff. You either need to modify your PCB that came with the laser diode or build a new circuit. Maybe you can reverse engineer that PCB and use one spot to inject signal from the EMC side. Ed, Kirk, Rafael, thank You! Given my lack of skills in electronics, I think that interfering and modifying the pcb that comes with laser is the last thing I want to do. Here are some pics of the laser and its pcb I took late in last night with my phone (it was late enough that I forgot to upload them yesterday evening): http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.54.59-QzJqS24n.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.55.16-mx4U2GiU.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.55.36-wtANcKHw.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.56.28-ySpITI8d.jpg I think that I will try the use a relay approach, because: 1) it is simple enough for me to do it; 2) it does not require modifying existing laser's board; 3) it will be fast enough for me, because I am going to use the laser in a a la milling fashion - move laser along the line to be burned instead of moving it back and forth and switching it on, when necessary, because: a) the laser is weak, so by definition it can't burn quickly; b) machine is heavy and relatively slow, compared to normal laser engravers, so it would not be able to handle very powerful laser anyway; c) g-code generation - I have no idea, how to generate g-code for normal laser engraving, but I know, how to do it for a la milling style. BTW client was happy, when he saw the first hand-burned lines in the wood that I managed to do last night in that small moment, when the laser was working... Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/20 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 10:39 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 10:42 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: ... snip Kirk, I repasted Your scheme here: http://picpaste.com/scheme-3V0w43QM.png ... snip Revised schematic attached. Pasted the scheme here: http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot-M9n1LIG0.1327503833.png R1 is 100 ohm, R2 is 220 ohm. R3 is 10K ohm. No diode next to R1. I tested by connecting/disconnecting 4N25 pin1 to GND and measured the voltage on laser power pins. Conclusion - not working. I have 0V on output in both cases. Any ideas, what might be wrong? Can I short-wire +5V to pin4 of 4N25 to test, if it works then? That way I intend to check, if 4N25 is good or no. Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On 25 January 2012 19:41, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 17:06 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: ... snip I tested by connecting/disconnecting 4N25 pin1 to GND and measured the voltage on laser power pins. Do you mean pin 2? Shorting pin 2 to ground should complete the circuit and push current through the opto's LED. Place regular LED in series with R1, just as shown for D?, but with an LED. The LED should light up when pin 2 is grounded. If the LED lights up the opto's LED is sure to light up too. Conclusion - not working. I have 0V on output in both cases. Any ideas, what might be wrong? You can try a 12 light bulb in place of the laser to see if Q1 turns ON. Can I short-wire +5V to pin4 of 4N25 to test, if it works then? Yes. 5 or 12 Volts to pin 4 should turn Q1 ON. Be sure R2 is in between your short and Q1. If this works, replace U1, it might be defective. That way I intend to check, if 4N25 is good or no. Viesturs See attached schematic. The . is hard to see so the 6 V are really .6 V. The voltages are approximate. -- By the way, you are using a PNP package for a NPN device. Be sure to change it before doing a layout. Regards Roland -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012. gada 25. Jan. 18:55 Roland Jollivet roland.jolli...@gmail.com rakstīja: On 25 January 2012 19:41, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 17:06 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: ... snip I tested by connecting/disconnecting 4N25 pin1 to GND and measured the voltage on laser power pins. Do you mean pin 2? Shorting pin 2 to ground should complete the circuit and push current through the opto's LED. Place regular LED in series with R1, just as shown for D?, but with an LED. The LED should light up when pin 2 is grounded. If the LED lights up the opto's LED is sure to light up too. Conclusion - not working. I have 0V on output in both cases. Any ideas, what might be wrong? You can try a 12 light bulb in place of the laser to see if Q1 turns ON. Can I short-wire +5V to pin4 of 4N25 to test, if it works then? Yes. 5 or 12 Volts to pin 4 should turn Q1 ON. Be sure R2 is in between your short and Q1. If this works, replace U1, it might be defective. That way I intend to check, if 4N25 is good or no. Viesturs See attached schematic. The . is hard to see so the 6 V are really .6 V. The voltages are approximate. -- By the way, you are using a PNP package for a NPN device. Be sure to change it before doing a layout. I kind of understand the difference, but do not get, how it relates to me. Could You please explain in more detail? Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 19:52 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote: ... snip By the way, you are using a PNP package for a NPN device. Be sure to change it before doing a layout. Regards Roland Uugh, that's embarrassing. I got the part number from Viesturs' e-mail reply, just pasted it in and didn't see the flaw. If this is really a BD139, the circuit won't work. Thanks Roland. I guess I shouldn't apply for any detective jobs. I suppose the BD139 could be made to work, but I would need to build the circuit to say anything with confidence. See attached. I suppose a lot of what I do involves magic ... by letting the magic smoke out of defenseless bits of plastic. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA attachment: Screenshot-5.png-- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
Ok, now I got it. Thank You, Kirk, for explanatory scheme! Thank You, Roland, for pointing it out. I will try in to resolder within next few hours and report back. Viesturs 2012. gada 25. Jan. 19:19 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com rakstīja: On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 19:52 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote: ... snip By the way, you are using a PNP package for a NPN device. Be sure to change it before doing a layout. Regards Roland Uugh, that's embarrassing. I got the part number from Viesturs' e-mail reply, just pasted it in and didn't see the flaw. If this is really a BD139, the circuit won't work. Thanks Roland. I guess I shouldn't apply for any detective jobs. I suppose the BD139 could be made to work, but I would need to build the circuit to say anything with confidence. See attached. I suppose a lot of what I do involves magic ... by letting the magic smoke out of defenseless bits of plastic. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 10:17 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: ... snip I suppose the BD139 could be made to work, but I would need to build the circuit to say anything with confidence. See attached. ... snip I suppose being able to use SPICE would help. Maybe I'll learn to use it in another life. http://www.brorson.com/gEDA/SPICE/x64.html -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012. gada 25. Jan. 19:39 Roland Jollivet roland.jolli...@gmail.com rakstīja: Haha. Sorry, it's funny. The BD139 is a NPN, so the position was right, but the symbol should have been changed from PNP to NPN. Otherwise, you can leave the new drawing as is, but label it as a BD138. The BD138 is PNP. So does ot mean that existing scheme is correct? Then what else might be wrong? Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012. gada 25. Jan. 20:18 Roland Jollivet roland.jolli...@gmail.com rakstīja: 2012/1/25 Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com 2012. gada 25. Jan. 19:39 Roland Jollivet roland.jolli...@gmail.com rakstīja: Haha. Sorry, it's funny. The BD139 is a NPN, so the position was right, but the symbol should have been changed from PNP to NPN. Otherwise, you can leave the new drawing as is, but label it as a BD138. The BD138 is PNP. So does ot mean that existing scheme is correct? Then what else might be wrong? Viesturs All I'm saying is; BD138 is PNP BD139 is NPN Just make sure that the symbol used matches the description, otherwise if you automatically place the part, you'll have the wrong pin layout. Kirk modified the cct for a PNP, but kept the label as a BD139. No value is shown for R3. I think 1K should be fine. I have BD139. R3 is 10K ohm. Ok, I will try to check, if any of elements is damaged and not working. Regards Roland -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/25 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 21:16 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote: ... snip All I'm saying is; BD138 is PNP BD139 is NPN Just make sure that the symbol used matches the description, otherwise if you automatically place the part, you'll have the wrong pin layout. Kirk modified the cct for a PNP, but kept the label as a BD139. No value is shown for R3. I think 1K should be fine. Regards Roland ... snip Double embarrassing. I think I have it now (applied 2x4 to forhead). Viesturs said he was using a BD139 which is a NPN (Not Pointing iN). I messed up the symbol I used, and should now have it corrected. The attached should be correct. Sorry for the confusion. Screenshot-3.png should still apply except for the Q1 symbol. Corrections welcomed. Kirk, I am getting totally confused... What is the difference in schematics between both images in Your last email? I cannot see any... And I have a question about Screenshot 6 and pin numbering of BD139. Does it differ from this one? http://picpaste.com/bd139-OI8vROGu.png Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On 25 January 2012 21:07, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Kirk, I am getting totally confused... What is the difference in schematics between both images in Your last email? I cannot see any... The direction the arrow points in the transistor schematic symbol. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/25 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 25 January 2012 21:07, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Kirk, I am getting totally confused... What is the difference in schematics between both images in Your last email? I cannot see any... The direction the arrow points in the transistor schematic symbol. Ok, thanks! I do not understand - that is inside the BD139, right? What can I do about it, if it is still the same BD139 transistor??? I finally managed to get at least something working: Short-circuiting +5V to 4N25's pin5 turns the laser power on and off as required. I am left with an impression that 4N25 is not working correctly. Is that diode next to R1 mandatory? I will not have a time to obtain one and solder in, before going to client. I just hope that I have spare 4N25... How sensitive to soldering heat are things like 4N25 optoisolators? Maybe I have accidentally burned it? Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 23:07 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: ... snip Kirk, I am getting totally confused... Sorry about that. What is the difference in schematics between both images in Your last email? I cannot see any... NPN Not Pointing iN |/ Collector Base ---| |\ V Emitter ~~~ PNP Pointing iN |/ ---| | \ The difference is in the Base voltage that turns the transistor ON. With NPN the base needs to be a higher voltage than the Emitter. Usually the emitter is at ground so a positive voltage around .6 volts will do it. For PNP the Base voltage needs to be lower than the Emitter, so the Emitter often has the positive supply going to it. Then the base can be switched to ground to turn the transistor ON. And I have a question about Screenshot 6 and pin numbering of BD139. Does it differ from this one? http://picpaste.com/bd139-OI8vROGu.png Viesturs I used this as a reference: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/BD/BD139.pdf but after looking at this: http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICAL_RESOURCES/TECHNICAL_LITERATURE/DATASHEET/CD1225.pdf it looks like the SOT-32 and the TO-126 package have a different pin order. Go figure. There seems to be a TO-225AA package too. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 23:43 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/1/25 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 25 January 2012 21:07, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Kirk, I am getting totally confused... What is the difference in schematics between both images in Your last email? I cannot see any... The direction the arrow points in the transistor schematic symbol. Ok, thanks! I do not understand - that is inside the BD139, right? What can I do about it, if it is still the same BD139 transistor??? If your transistor is a BD139 it will be an NPN. As mentioned in another message, the pin number depends on the package TO or SOT. I finally managed to get at least something working: Short-circuiting +5V to 4N25's pin5 turns the laser power on and off as required. It's jumping the 12 V supply to U1 pin 4 that should turn Q1 ON. If the 5 Volt supply turns Q1 ON, that means that your 12 Volt and 5 Volt supplies share the same ground, which is okay unless they need to be isolated, which is what opto-isolators (U1) allow you to do. I am left with an impression that 4N25 is not working correctly. I concur. Is that diode next to R1 mandatory? I will not have a time to obtain one and solder in, before going to client. The general purpose diode next to R1 can tolerate a much higher reverse voltage. The opto-isolators internal LED has a reverse voltage tolerance a little over 5 volts, so hooking up the LED backwards or noise on the line could burn it out. The general purpose diode prevents the opto LED from being damaged. In addition, a regular LED can also placed in series with the general purpose diode, and will light up when the signal is ON. This can help with trouble shooting, and gives customers something watch while you are explaining how wonderful your machine is. I just hope that I have spare 4N25... Me too. There may be some opt-isolators on junk telecom PC boards you might have laying around? How sensitive to soldering heat are things like 4N25 optoisolators? Maybe I have accidentally burned it? You might pull a trace up before damaging the opto-isolator, although sometimes heat can damage a component such that it still works but not very well, or not all the time. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/26 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 23:43 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/1/25 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 25 January 2012 21:07, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Kirk, I am getting totally confused... What is the difference in schematics between both images in Your last email? I cannot see any... The direction the arrow points in the transistor schematic symbol. Ok, thanks! I do not understand - that is inside the BD139, right? What can I do about it, if it is still the same BD139 transistor??? If your transistor is a BD139 it will be an NPN. As mentioned in another message, the pin number depends on the package TO or SOT. Based on visual appearance, it is SOT package. I finally managed to get at least something working: Short-circuiting +5V to 4N25's pin5 turns the laser power on and off as required. It's jumping the 12 V supply to U1 pin 4 that should turn Q1 ON. If the 5 Volt supply turns Q1 ON, that means that your 12 Volt and 5 Volt supplies share the same ground, which is okay unless they need to be isolated, which is what opto-isolators (U1) allow you to do. My apologies for late-night mistakes - it was 4N25's pin4 that was short-circuited to +5V... Ground is shared on both sides, because 5V and 12V are supplied by PC's PSU. Is there a simple way I can drive that transistor without optoisolator? The general purpose diode next to R1 can tolerate a much higher reverse voltage. The opto-isolators internal LED has a reverse voltage tolerance a little over 5 volts, so hooking up the LED backwards or noise on the line could burn it out. The general purpose diode prevents the opto LED from being damaged. In addition, a regular LED can also placed in series with the general purpose diode, and will light up when the signal is ON. This can help with trouble shooting, and gives customers something watch while you are explaining how wonderful your machine is. I checked 3 times - it is connected correctly... Ok, I will take that into account and include in my next design (although I am starting to think that next time I will just acquire7i37 card - it seems that with all my struggle I am getting over the diy will be cheaper line and it does not seem that I can easily get it working) I like that point of distracting client's attitude :) Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On 01/25/2012 01:43 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/1/25 andy pughbodge...@gmail.com: On 25 January 2012 21:07, Viesturs Lācisviesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Kirk, I am getting totally confused... What is the difference in schematics between both images in Your last email? I cannot see any... The direction the arrow points in the transistor schematic symbol. Ok, thanks! I do not understand - that is inside the BD139, right? What can I do about it, if it is still the same BD139 transistor??? I finally managed to get at least something working: Short-circuiting +5V to 4N25's pin5 turns the laser power on and off as required. I am left with an impression that 4N25 is not working correctly. Is that diode next to R1 mandatory? I will not have a time to obtain one and solder in, before going to client. I just hope that I have spare 4N25... How sensitive to soldering heat are things like 4N25 optoisolators? Maybe I have accidentally burned it? Viesturs I'm following this thread for a while now and believe that solution lies in managed current supply, not voltage. I see no current check in the suggested circuit. Specialized circuits will provide much longer life for your laser, better max current limit, inrush current, and you can drive it with PWM to run cooler. Perhaps generic LED driver circuit is the way to go: http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/4510 While low power, same rules apply: http://www.maxim-ic.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/242 There are probably other ICs to drive laser diodes. Laser you mentioned is in a way another type of LED but I might be wrong here when it comes to driving it properly. Still, I would be more confident to use any current source with a limit to drive the laser diode than use circuits discussed earlier. -- Rafael -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 08:40 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: ... snip Ground is shared on both sides, because 5V and 12V are supplied by PC's PSU. Is there a simple way I can drive that transistor without optoisolator? I think you could add a smaller transistor in place of the opto-isolator. See the attachment for rough schematic that would need work to make a practical circuit. An off-the-shelf solid state relay might do the job too. ... snip it seems that with all my struggle I am getting over the diy will be cheaper line and it does not seem that I can easily get it working) I like that point of distracting client's attitude :) Viesturs Many times I find it easier to make what I need, than to try and modify an existing product to fit what I need. Sometimes one needs isolation sometimes not. Sometimes one needs to convert a 12 Volt signal to 5 or 3 Volts, or RS232 to RS485 and an existing product just doesn't have the right combination of features. After some experience one gets used to what works them, but maybe not for anyone else. If a product has the proper features, my guess it will most often be cheaper overall to buy than to make, but for me, at this time, I either make it from what I have on hand, or it doesn't get done. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA attachment: Screenshot-7.png-- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/20 kqt4a...@gmail.com: Could you provide details about the laser Manufacturer is www.kalecnc.com Purchased from them on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2a1771bee9#ht_2189wt_1080 This unit is 800mW, I bought 700mW for 99USD. I tested - it burns wood pretty nicely, but slower than I would like it. But I understand that I should not expect any miracles from 700mW power lasers. Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 20, 2012 12:07:16 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/20 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Thu, 2012-01-19 at 17:32 -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Viesturs Lؤپcis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote: Hello, folks! I would appreciate some advice or insights, what am I doing wrong. What I want to do is to switch on and off a power to laser engraver diode. It needs 12 VDC supply and it consumes ~1 A currrent. Here is schematics of what I currently have: http://picpaste.com/DSCF6164-vX7heUEq.jpg The problem is that it is not working: Voltmeter was showing +12 VDC on both leads, going to laser module all the time, regardless if I had turned the output pin true or not. آ What is the voltage of the 'low' state? could it light up the LED? As Steve said, your resistor is in the wrong place. I'd put it on the collector of the phototransistor.; then, the base current of your power transistor would be (12V-0.7V-0.7V)/R; assuming the power transistor beta is 20, you'd need 50mA, i.e. the resistor must be 200 ohm. Just to add my two cent's worth, see attached (if it makes it): Thank You, guys! Kirk, I repasted Your scheme here: http://picpaste.com/scheme-3V0w43QM.png Do I understand that includes also Steve's and Przemek's sugestions, if R2 is 200 ohm? The optoisolator is 4N25, the transistor is BD139. It says 4N29 in that link. I am not familiar enough with either, so when I say r1=1k is too high, its a swag only, check the docs on the device for sure. When calculating that current, you don't have 5 volts though, subtract first the logic zero voltage the controlling card can supply, often in the 0.15 volt range, and then subtract the on drop of the led in the 4nxx from that. IOW at 1k, you are likely getting only perhaps 3.5 milliamps to light the led. That doesn't seem sufficient in my mind at least, to get the job done. The rest if this modified drawing looks as if it should fly. Today however, I don't think I would use a 2n3055 due to its high on state forward drop , costing the laser a bit of its supply voltage. Rather, I think I would feed the photo transistor to a cmos schmidt trigger to get a good, fast rail to rail switch, and drive the gate of a hexfet with its output. The hexfet in my case would be whatever is in the first 'dead' computer power supply I have a grocery sack full of. ;-) Any of those will likely have a similar or higher current rating than the 2n3055, hundreds of volts greater off state withstand, and 10% of the 2n3055's on state voltage drop, a genuinely better way to get that job done. Depending on the hexfet some sort of a negative bias of -2 or -3 volts might be required to achieve a total turnoff, but with only a 5 volt supply, the off state leakage really should not be a factor. Gene, I think that I have spare 330 or 470 ohm resistors to replace the 1K ohm R1, I will try to test it. These slot interrupters I am using need 10 to 20 milliamps to light them adequately. There is no doubt lower current stuff being used in old ball mice but the logic in those can be a bit of a mystery. Its a valid complaint that my junk box never has what I need. OTOH, it seems to be in better shape than most. ;-) Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Chinese saying: He who speak with forked tongue, not need chopsticks. -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/20 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: The rest if this modified drawing looks as if it should fly. Ok, thanks! I will try to resolder and test it. In case of any difficulties, I will report back :)) Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 10:42 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: ... snip Kirk, I repasted Your scheme here: http://picpaste.com/scheme-3V0w43QM.png Do I understand that includes also Steve's and Przemek's sugestions, if R2 is 200 ohm? The optoisolator is 4N25, the transistor is BD139. Gene, I think that I have spare 330 or 470 ohm resistors to replace the 1K ohm R1, I will try to test it. Viesturs BTW, the parts in my drawing where just the symbols I had handy and don't suggest what should be used. It looks like the 4N25 can pass 50mA with a forward voltage around 1.3 Volts. The BD139 looks like it turns fully ON with the base at .5 Volts. Following the circuit from the supply through the opto and Q1, to ground... 12Vsupply - .5Vsat4N25 - Vr2 - .5Vbd139 = 0 Vr2 = 11V Vr2 = I x R = .05A x R2 R2 = 11 / .05 = 220 Ohms (this will push the opto to its limit but should be okay) Watts = V x I = 112Vr2 x .05Ar2 = .55 Watts, so a half Watt resistor should be used. The BD139 gain is 40 or better, so 40 x .05A = 2 Amps The BD139 collector-emitter ON voltage is .5 Volts so the laser will see 11.5 Volts. What is used to modulate the laser? For some applications, the laser will need to be turned on and off at a high rate, which makes life more interesting. For the Mesa side, the 4N25 LED looks like it can take up to 60mA, so you can drive it pretty hard. My guess is that the Mesa output can sink up to 24mA, so this will be the limiting factor. I'd shoot for 15mA. Also the LED reverse voltage is 5 Volts, so it is common to have a general purpose diode (with a high reverse voltage) in series with the opto diode. 5Vsupply - VrInput - Vgendiode - VoptoLED - VmesaPin = 0 5 - VrInput - 1 - 1.3 - 1? = 0 VrInput = 1.7 Volts V = I x R, Rinput = 1.7VrInput / .015 Amps = 113 Ohms Corrections to any of the above are welcomed. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/20 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 10:39 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 10:42 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: ... snip Kirk, I repasted Your scheme here: http://picpaste.com/scheme-3V0w43QM.png ... snip Revised schematic attached. Thank You! Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 21:05 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/1/20 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 10:39 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 10:42 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: ... snip Kirk, I repasted Your scheme here: http://picpaste.com/scheme-3V0w43QM.png ... snip Revised schematic attached. Thank You! Viesturs Attached is the gEDA .sch file, in case it might be handy. mesa2laser-1b.sch Description: application/geda-schematic -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote: Hello, folks! I would appreciate some advice or insights, what am I doing wrong. What I want to do is to switch on and off a power to laser engraver diode. It needs 12 VDC supply and it consumes ~1 A currrent. Here is schematics of what I currently have: http://picpaste.com/DSCF6164-vX7heUEq.jpg The problem is that it is not working: Voltmeter was showing +12 VDC on both leads, going to laser module all the time, regardless if I had turned the output pin true or not. What is the voltage of the 'low' state? could it light up the LED? As Steve said, your resistor is in the wrong place. I'd put it on the collector of the phototransistor.; then, the base current of your power transistor would be (12V-0.7V-0.7V)/R; assuming the power transistor beta is 20, you'd need 50mA, i.e. the resistor must be 200 ohm. -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
Almost agree having the 10K to ground is still not a bad idea as it will bleed off any leakage from the opto. Note that in your example you assume a beta of 20 and in my example I assumed a beta of 50. Steve -Original Message- From: Przemek Klosowski [mailto:przemek.klosow...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 5:33 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Viesturs Lacis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote: Hello, folks! I would appreciate some advice or insights, what am I doing wrong. What I want to do is to switch on and off a power to laser engraver diode. It needs 12 VDC supply and it consumes ~1 A currrent. Here is schematics of what I currently have: http://picpaste.com/DSCF6164-vX7heUEq.jpg The problem is that it is not working: Voltmeter was showing +12 VDC on both leads, going to laser module all the time, regardless if I had turned the output pin true or not. What is the voltage of the 'low' state? could it light up the LED? As Steve said, your resistor is in the wrong place. I'd put it on the collector of the phototransistor.; then, the base current of your power transistor would be (12V-0.7V-0.7V)/R; assuming the power transistor beta is 20, you'd need 50mA, i.e. the resistor must be 200 ohm. -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Thursday, January 19, 2012 07:27:22 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: Hello, folks! I would appreciate some advice or insights, what am I doing wrong. What I want to do is to switch on and off a power to laser engraver diode. It needs 12 VDC supply and it consumes ~1 A currrent. Here is schematics of what I currently have: http://picpaste.com/DSCF6164-vX7heUEq.jpg The problem is that it is not working: Voltmeter was showing +12 VDC on both leads, going to laser module all the time, regardless if I had turned the output pin true or not. First of all I am interested, if the scheme is actually correct. From what you say, the opto's led isn't being sufficiently excited to turn on the darlington photodetector. Are you sure that with the applied voltages, that the 1k in series with the driver led is sufficient to properly excite it? If that is a 5 volt circuit, the 1k will only allow maybe 2.2 milliamps, not enough in some cases. Try a 330 ohm, on down to 120 maybe, as the limiting resistor. 120 should give a bit over 20 ma of led drive. If that doesn't do it, I'd suspect the device might be defective. Thanks! Viesturs -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene There is always something new out of Africa. -- Gaius Plinius Secundus -- Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
