Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Am Sonntag, den 28.05.2006, 14:42 +0200 schrieb Martin Doege: And since one of the major selling points of Flight Simulator X will be, at least according to the screenshots and trailers, the more realistic depiction of water in all its pixel shader-rendered glory, it would be great if the water in FG would also be a little more than just the big blue parking lot it is right now. :-) Maybe we could integrate code from the submarine simulation Danger of the Deep. They have allready very nice eye candy water effects. Screenshots: http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/gallery.php http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/gallery/screenshot_0_1_1_01.jpg http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/gallery/screenshot_0_1_1_02.jpg http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/gallery/screenshot_0_1_1_03.jpg http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/gallery/screenshot_0_1_1_04.jpg It is an open source simulation like FlightGear and under the GPL license, so there shouldn't be a problem with code reuse from a license point of view. If we think about this a little further perhaps they might be interested in a merge of both projects. Because even a submarine simulation needs airplanes in the air and nice coast lines with hills and buildings on the land that is visible from the sea. :) Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Martin Doege wrote: However, calculating the tide for a given coordinate is probably the lesser problem here (one can use xtide's output for reference, etc.) My main issue is whether the visualization of the tidal effects can somehow be done with e.g. a Nasal script (good) or by extensively modifying the FG engine itself (not so good, since the FG/SimGear source code is pretty abstract and not very well-commented IMHO) You would almost have to redo the scenery in the areas with ocean coverage to include the ocean floor elevation, then draw the ocean as a seperate layer that can be moved up and down exposing more or less of the terrain. The trick maybe to find a good sea floor elevation database that is reasonably compatible with SRTM, and mesh the two data sets seamlessly. Curt. This would have a nice side effect of autmatically creating beaches. Josh ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Martin Doege wrote: So apparently Inkscape (or its developers) are not to blame here, it is the FreeBSD 6.0 virtual memory subsystem that seems to be a little wonky to say the least. Well, I'd be careful with such assumptions. You're correct in that FreeBSD-6.0 is not recommended for heavy-load production use (say FTP service with 3k simultaneous connections, I don't know if 'ftp.cdrom.com' still exists). Still you can assume that it eaily handles 1 GByte of RAM and more. My bet is that the port of Inkscape to FreeBSD probably doesn't match the operating system close enough. My experience is that you often have to deal with Linuxisms in OpenSource software which probably show obscure behaviour on Unixes. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Martin Doege wrote: I have looked around for high-resolution Wadden Sea bathymetry on the Web and the best I have found yet is this maphttp://www.waddensea-secretariat.org/news/documents/WSP-Maps/MAP-CWSS-2003.pdf http://www.waddensea-secretariat.org/news/documents/WSP-Maps/MAP-CWSS-2003.pdf [...] The problem is of course extracting the data back onto a grid to interpolate it. Wow !! the Disclaimer doesn't prevent us from using this document together with FlightGear or the Landcover-DB. We definitely should try to get this vector data into GRASS or some comparable system and separate the different layers - in case of doubt we even could use commercial software to do the required conversion. Once someone is able to load the data into GRASS, the geo-referencing should not pose any serious problem as lots of significant points have a well-known location. I'm looking forward to get hold of this data as I'm personally _very_ interested in this area Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 12:57:05 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Martin Doege wrote: I have looked around for high-resolution Wadden Sea bathymetry on the Web and the best I have found yet is this maphttp://www.waddensea-secretariat.org/news/documents/WSP-Maps/MA P-CWSS-2003.pdf http://www.waddensea-secretariat.org/news/documents/WSP-Maps/MAP-CWSS-2003.pdf [...] The problem is of course extracting the data back onto a grid to interpolate it. Wow !! the Disclaimer doesn't prevent us from using this document together with FlightGear or the Landcover-DB. We definitely should try to get this vector data into GRASS or some comparable system and separate the different layers - in case of doubt we even could use commercial software to do the required conversion. Once someone is able to load the data into GRASS, the geo-referencing should not pose any serious problem as lots of significant points have a well-known location. I'm looking forward to get hold of this data as I'm personally _very_ interested in this area ..Martin, see if you can find such data around GVAC (Cape Verde), looks like I have TerrorGear working in a few hours. Thanks to Fred B. for sending me a working gpc Makefile. :o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..Martin, see if you can find such data around GVAC (Cape Verde), looks like I have TerrorGear working in a few hours. If you point me to a location where I can fetch such data I'll tell you if I managed to find it ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 16:59:45 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..Martin, see if you can find such data around GVAC (Cape Verde), looks like I have TerrorGear working in a few hours. If you point me to a location where I can fetch such data I'll tell you if I managed to find it ;-) ..pass, got a dead disk to try pry out TerrorGear from. Seriously, no big deal, just a few more hours. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
On 6/3/06, Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is the crash really related to size?Maybe the SVG conversion wasbugged?(of course, Inkscape should react to that better than by crashing, as well, but anyway.) It looks like Inkscape needs to fit the whole image data into physical memory. It loads a little more of the file if I log into X without KDE, just some xterms, but it still crashes with a std::bad_alloc message when it has processed about 80%. I have slimmed down the SVG somewhat by removing the font definitions, bitmap images, text, and the red hatching with a text editor and grep. While the file is now only 13.5 MB in size, Inkscape still cannot load the whole thing. Maybe I should try to throw out more elements, based on their color? Or simply buy more RAM? :-) Martin D. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
On Sat, 3 Jun 2006, Martin Doege wrote: It looks like Inkscape needs to fit the whole image data into physical memory. It loads a little more of the file if I log into X without KDE, just some xterms, but it still crashes with a std::bad_alloc message when it has processed about 80%. [snip] Maybe I should try to throw out more elements, based on their color? Or simply buy more RAM? :-) If you have some spare disk space you could add more swap. I think that can be done using a swap-file so you don't even have to create another swap partition. See the man page for swapon(8) for more info. Cheers, Anders -- In a world without fences, who needs gates? Email: anders(at)gidenstam.org WWW: http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/JSBSim-LTA/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 20:05:14 +0200 Martin Doege wrote: Maybe I should try to throw out more elements, based on their color? Or simply buy more RAM? :-) Or file a bug. It sounds like you have plenty of RAM, so I wouldn't think this would be acceptable to the Inkscape folks. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
On 6/3/06, Anders Gidenstam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you have some spare disk space you could add more swap. I think thatcan be done using a swap-file so you don't even have to create anotherswap partition. See the man page for swapon(8) for more info. Inkscape does not even seem to touch the existing 2 GB of swap, so adding more will help little. Memory usage just balloons to 750-800 MB, which is the physical memory minus memory used by KDE, X, etc., and then the app fails to allocate more. I always thought virtual memory was somehow transparent to applications, but in this case there seems to be a marked distinction between physical memory and swap space for some reason.Martin D. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
On 6/3/06, Martin Doege [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Inkscape does not even seem to touch the existing 2 GB of swap, so adding more will help little. Memory usage just balloons to 750-800 MB, which is the physical memory minus memory used by KDE, X, etc., and then the app fails to allocate more. I just tried to open the file in Inkscape 0.43 under Mac OS Xand it worked!Of course the poor little iBook is probably a little too slow to do much with the data after it has loaded, but at least the loading itself works nicely, even if it takes forever. I should try this on the other Mac tomorrow. So apparently Inkscape (or its developers) are not to blame here, it is the FreeBSD 6.0 virtual memory subsystem that seems to be a little wonky to say the least.I should have considered this possibility earlier, but apparently sometimes FreeBSD users are a little full of themselves and consider production releases of their OS of choice unsinkable. Which may have been true in the 4.x days, but not anymore, that much is certain! ;-)Martin D. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
So I will try to convert this to SVG, maybe I can import it then. The conversion worked, but the resulting 17 MB SVG file crashes Inkscape 0.42 on import despite the 1 GB of RAM. How crappy! Martin D. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Basically, you could model a tidal area as a triangle mesh (asdetailed as you like) where the triangle type is tidal and each triangle also carries a parameter X which is the local tide-height atwhich that triangle is covered by water. A tide-calculator finds localtide-height in a slow-running background loop, and every iteration of that loop, all triangles where X tide-height are textured as water,otherwise as sand (or mud).What's nice about that approach is that you can model tidal reaches withwhatever detail you want. It could just be tide in/tide out as suggested by Curt (above) or vastly complex, handling the water flows ofmudflats like the wadden area or Mont St. Michel. I have looked around for high-resolution Wadden Sea bathymetry on the Web and the best I have found yet is this map http://www.waddensea-secretariat.org/news/documents/WSP-Maps/MAP-CWSS-2003.pdf (CAUTION: huge PDF, low-res version here: http://www.waddensea-secretariat.org/news/documents/WSP-Maps/MAP-CWSS.jpg ). The problem is of course extracting the data back onto a grid to interpolate it. I suppose if I had Adobe Illustrator, I could simply import the PDF, delete everything that does not belong to the depth lines and export the image. Unfortunately, Inkscape cannot import PDFs as it seems. So I will try to convert this to SVG, maybe I can import it then. I have also sent an email to the Wadden Sea Secretariat asking if they can provide the gridded or raw data in a better format, but generally scientific raw data is a lot harder to come by in Europe than in the US, so my expectations are not very high. Martin ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
On Friday 02 June 2006 23:14, Chris Metzler wrote: Is the crash really related to size? Maybe the SVG conversion was bugged? (of course, Inkscape should react to that better than by crashing, as well, but anyway.) -c If you have ever tried to convert complex PDF files into SVG format, then you would know that the resulting SVG file is very verbose. ;-) Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 00:45:33 -0400 Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: On Friday 02 June 2006 23:14, Chris Metzler wrote: Is the crash really related to size? Maybe the SVG conversion was bugged? (of course, Inkscape should react to that better than by crashing, as well, but anyway.) If you have ever tried to convert complex PDF files into SVG format, then you would know that the resulting SVG file is very verbose. ;-) Oh, I have no doubt. But I'm all about filing bug reports when appropriate, and wanted to encourage doing so if that was the source of Inkscape's problem. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Durk Talsma wrote: Curtis L. Olson wrote: Martin Spott wrote: The triangles don't have to be changed at all because in our Scenery the tidal area is part of the ocean. The idea was about changing nothing but the colour, Ok, so you are only talking about areas that are marked explicitly as tidal areas in our land use/land cover data base, and then they would be either at full tide or no tide ... that's probably simpler to manage. Curt. I like the idea. Having some real-life experience flying over the wadden area that Martin (Doege) referred to, I can tell that the low tide areas can be very scenic. A change in texture would indeed suffice, because the elevation differences are almost negligable. Basically, you could model a tidal area as a triangle mesh (as detailed as you like) where the triangle type is tidal and each triangle also carries a parameter X which is the local tide-height at which that triangle is covered by water. A tide-calculator finds local tide-height in a slow-running background loop, and every iteration of that loop, all triangles where X tide-height are textured as water, otherwise as sand (or mud). What's nice about that approach is that you can model tidal reaches with whatever detail you want. It could just be tide in/tide out as suggested by Curt (above) or vastly complex, handling the water flows of mudflats like the wadden area or Mont St. Michel. I've been interested in tides for years, and although 'Xtide' has now appeared (which outdoes my efforts), I've been offering a tide calculator program on my website for years: see http://tallyho.bc.nu/~steve/tides.html The underlying maths is very much simplified compared with Xtide, but would be fine for Flightgear. Help yourselves if you want it! Steve. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Martin Spott wrote: The triangles don't have to be changed at all because in our Scenery the tidal area is part of the ocean. The idea was about changing nothing but the colour, Ok, so you are only talking about areas that are marked explicitly as tidal areas in our land use/land cover data base, and then they would be either at full tide or no tide ... that's probably simpler to manage. Actually there is another method that caught my attention lately; 3d textures. By using a two layer 3d texture one could seamlessly blend between the layers based on a parameter that influences the texture z-parameter. Erik -- http://www.ehtw.info (Dutch)Future of Enschede Airport Twente http://www.ehofman.com/fgfs FlightGear Flight Simulator ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Am Samstag, den 27.05.2006, 16:14 -0400 schrieb Ampere K. Hardraade: On Friday 26 May 2006 12:03, Curtis L. Olson wrote: You would almost have to redo the scenery in the areas with ocean coverage to include the ocean floor elevation, then draw the ocean as a seperate layer that can be moved up and down exposing more or less of the terrain. The trick maybe to find a good sea floor elevation database that is reasonably compatible with SRTM, and mesh the two data sets seamlessly. Curt. I like this idea, as it is a more generic approach and could work for steeper shorelines (like those around KSFO). Smaller layers could then be used to simulate the effects of waves as well, and based on the camera's distance to these layers, we could then play the sounds for wave. Water surface should be handled differently than land right from the beginning. Right now, any plane could land on the water as if the water is a giant runway. By having the water as a separated mesh, we could finally simulate the plane-water interaction properly. I feel that this method would move us into the right direction. Ampere that would be a chance for completing my albatros seaplane, imagine flying around those caribbean islands ... Greetings Detlef http://www.sol2500.net/flightgear --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=107521bid=248729dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=107521bid=248729dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
I like this idea, as it is a more generic approach and could work for steeper shorelines (like those around KSFO). Smaller layers could then be used to simulate the effects of waves as well, and based on the camera's distance to these layers, we could then play the sounds for wave. Water surface should be handled differently than land right from the beginning. Right now, any plane could land on the water as if the water is a giant runway. By having the water as a separated mesh, we could finally simulate the plane-water interaction properly. I feel that this method would move us into the right direction. And since one of the major selling points of Flight Simulator X will be, at least according to the screenshots and trailers, the more realistic depiction of water in all its pixel shader-rendered glory, it would be great if the water in FG would also be a little more than just the big blue parking lot it is right now. :-) Martin D. --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid7521bid$8729dat1642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
On Friday 26 May 2006 12:03, Curtis L. Olson wrote: You would almost have to redo the scenery in the areas with ocean coverage to include the ocean floor elevation, then draw the ocean as a seperate layer that can be moved up and down exposing more or less of the terrain. The trick maybe to find a good sea floor elevation database that is reasonably compatible with SRTM, and mesh the two data sets seamlessly. Curt. I like this idea, as it is a more generic approach and could work for steeper shorelines (like those around KSFO). Smaller layers could then be used to simulate the effects of waves as well, and based on the camera's distance to these layers, we could then play the sounds for wave. Water surface should be handled differently than land right from the beginning. Right now, any plane could land on the water as if the water is a giant runway. By having the water as a separated mesh, we could finally simulate the plane-water interaction properly. I feel that this method would move us into the right direction. Ampere --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=107521bid=248729dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Martin Doege wrote: Of course the tide calculations would not be required to be extremely accurate à la xtide -- the hour angle of the Moon would probably be quite sufficient as a broad indication of tide. It would have to be slightly more than just that. At the very least, you'd need a delay-factor for the local hour-angle of the moon. Also an amplitude-factor. Even then, you'd sometimes get the tide happening about an hour displaced from reality due to the loss of the solar tide. If you added a simple solar tide (i.e a delay factor for the local solar hour-angle and a solar-tide amplitude-factor) then you'd probably be getting a pretty good rough approximation for a given area. Good enough for a flight-sim, certainly. It would also better model those areas of the world where the solar tide dominates and there's only one significant tide per day. Steve --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid7521bid$8729dat1642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
It would have to be slightly more than just that. At the very least, you'd need a delay-factor for the local hour-angle of the moon. Also anamplitude-factor.Even then, you'd sometimes get the tide happening about an hourdisplaced from reality due to the loss of the solar tide. If you added a simple solar tide (i.e a delay factor for the local solar hour-angle anda solar-tide amplitude-factor) then you'd probably be getting a prettygood rough approximation for a given area. Good enough for a flight-sim, certainly. Yes, some kind of tide delay factor, preferably one that can vary from place to place, as well as solar and lunar tidal amplitudes (from hour angle and distance) would probably be required to get something roughly accurate. However, calculating the tide for a given coordinate is probably the lesser problem here (one can use xtide's output for reference, etc.) My main issue is whether the visualization of the tidal effects can somehow be done with e.g. a Nasal script (good) or by extensively modifying the FG engine itself (not so good, since the FG/SimGear source code is pretty abstract and not very well-commented IMHO) It would also better model those areas of the world where the solar tidedominates I thought the lunar tide is always dominant and the solar tide just adds to it during spring tide. Or have I misunderstood you there? Martin
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Curtis L. Olson wrote: The trick maybe to find a good sea floor elevation database that is reasonably compatible with SRTM, and mesh the two data sets seamlessly. http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/bathymetry/relief.html has an interesting survey on bathymetric data. But I don't think we need a realistic simulation of the effect for use in Flightgear, changing colours according to the tidal changes should be sufficient. This could be done by declaring respective areas of the ocean as tideland and moving the shoreline proportionally to the time that has passed since the last hig- or low-tides. Still someone would have to develop a schema to calculate the tides Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=107521bid=248729dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Martin Spott wrote: The triangles don't have to be changed at all because in our Scenery the tidal area is part of the ocean. The idea was about changing nothing but the colour, Ok, so you are only talking about areas that are marked explicitly as tidal areas in our land use/land cover data base, and then they would be either at full tide or no tide ... that's probably simpler to manage. Curt. --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=107521bid=248729dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Curtis L. Olson wrote: Martin Spott wrote: The triangles don't have to be changed at all because in our Scenery the tidal area is part of the ocean. The idea was about changing nothing but the colour, Ok, so you are only talking about areas that are marked explicitly as tidal areas in our land use/land cover data base, and then they would be either at full tide or no tide ... that's probably simpler to manage. Curt. I like the idea. Having some real-life experience flying over the wadden area that Martin (Doege) referred to, I can tell that the low tide areas can be very scenic. A change in texture would indeed suffice, because the elevation differences are almost negligable. Cheers, Durk --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=107521bid=248729dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Tides in FlightGear?
Ok, so you are only talking about areas that are marked explicitly as tidal areas in our land use/land cover data base, and then they would be either at full tide or no tide ... that's probably simpler to manage. The idea was more like a linear transition between the high and low tide patterns. Only having the scenery flip-flop between two states is probably better than nothing at all but not perfect either (e.g., around Mont Saint Michel, the rising water has a horizonal speed of up to 1 m/s, so you can watch its movement easily!). If the low tide pattern is already marked in the land cover database as such, the only problem is calculating the horizontal shapes of the water as it rises (or falls). If the bathymetry is unknown, perhaps the horizontal patterns can be faked by using a 2D cellular automaton. The rules just have to set up so that the water rushes back into the narrower areas (where the water is supposedly deeper) first and when it falls, retreats from those areas last. The CA could be running in FG and occasionally update the sea / mud status of a randomly selected tile that is both close to the water and within the visible range. Martin --- All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid7521bid$8729dat1642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
