Re: [fpc-devel] ref,user and prog in chm format (updated)
Marco van de Voort wrote: after the initial suggestion is another main problem. Most people only want to fix their own usecase, and forget about the rest. Think about stuff like: OK, that is a very valid point. :-) Making such a change would have a bit of a ripple effect. Either way, I'll try and track down the 7zip code and see if we can add it to FCL. Baby steps. ;-) Btw, if size is really a problem, consider generating the docs yourself. I have tried this before and had to luck. I vaguely remember Michael mention a few months back that he improved the Makefile or something in the docs project. Maybe it's worth trying to build the docs again. I always have a copy of that repository floating around somewhere. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] ref,user and prog in chm format (updated)
Michael Van Canneyt wrote: How you don't get depressed of seeing your TODO list grow by the day is a mystery to me. :( Oh I do, but I think I found a way to manage my depression. ;-) I tackle it like I do with Test-Driven Development. Tiny steps! Don't look at everything at once. Yeah sure, keep adding new todo items to the list, but only attend to one at a time. That way I keep chipping away at the overall list and eventually (I think) I'll get to them all. :-) of quantum physics: in each world one of your copies does 1 thing on I stopped worrying about my clones a while back. ;-) Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] ref,user and prog in chm format (updated)
In our previous episode, Marco van de Voort said: I updated the docs, and, for convenience I added the fpdoc based docs and fpdoc.chm too. The archive is still at http://www.stack.nl/~marcov/doc-chm.zip but now swollen to +/- 10MB, however this is mostly due to the fact that I also included the LCL and .xcts. A typical FPC release would be in the magnitude of 4-5MB both in ZIP as unpacked. (compare, doc-html.zip is now 10MB _packed_ and tens of MB's uncompressed) Changes: - fpdoc based chms added, as well as fpdoc manual itself, hopefully with crossreferences and fulltext search. - recompiled everything after Andrew Haines' chm package fixes last night. - Added a script, fixdocs.sh to the fpcdocs repository which should somewhat automate the generation. Note that it hardly does any error checking. The rest of my notes are at: http://wiki.freepascal.org/chm_backend_for_fpdoc#compiling_and_TOC_generation ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] ref,user and prog in chm format (updated)
Marco van de Voort wrote: I updated the docs, and, for convenience I added the fpdoc based docs and fpdoc.chm too. Thanks Marco! magnitude of 4-5MB both in ZIP as unpacked. (compare, doc-html.zip is now 10MB _packed_ and tens of MB's uncompressed) Just thought I would let you know, I downloaded the doc-html.tar.gz, extracted it, and then repacked it using 7-zip. As a solid archive I got it down to 1.9MB! 7-zip has been around for quite some time. Maybe the releases can drop the standard .zip and replace that with .7z I noticed most of the .tar.gz is even smaller than the .zip archives. Just my 2c worth... :-) Regards, - Graeme - fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] ref,user and prog in chm format (updated)
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: Marco van de Voort wrote: I updated the docs, and, for convenience I added the fpdoc based docs and fpdoc.chm too. Thanks Marco! magnitude of 4-5MB both in ZIP as unpacked. (compare, doc-html.zip is now 10MB _packed_ and tens of MB's uncompressed) Just thought I would let you know, I downloaded the doc-html.tar.gz, extracted it, and then repacked it using 7-zip. As a solid archive I got it down to 1.9MB! 7-zip has been around for quite some time. Maybe the releases can drop the standard .zip and replace that with .7z I noticed most of the .tar.gz is even smaller than the .zip archives. Just my 2c worth... :-) We are aware of this. But .7z is not really a well-established standard. Even FPC doesn't have a handler for it. By contrast, .zip is handled natively on most platforms. Ease of use in this case supercedes compactness... Michael. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] ref,user and prog in chm format (updated)
In our previous episode, Graeme Geldenhuys said: magnitude of 4-5MB both in ZIP as unpacked. (compare, doc-html.zip is now 10MB _packed_ and tens of MB's uncompressed) Just thought I would let you know, I downloaded the doc-html.tar.gz, extracted it, and then repacked it using 7-zip. As a solid archive I got it down to 1.9MB! Depacking a html zip on a slow machine takes over tens of minutes already. 7zip would make it worse. The whole idea is to get rid of the depacked files all together, and a solid archive is useless as help format. 7-zip has been around for quite some time. Maybe the releases can drop the standard .zip and replace that with .7z Maybe. Just provide a FPC implementation of the depacker for use in the various installers, and we can test with it. If the memory and CPU requirements are doable, why not? I noticed most of the .tar.gz is even smaller than the .zip archives. Just my 2c worth... :-) .tar.gz's are solid in a way too, so that is no surpise in this case. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] ref,user and prog in chm format (updated)
Marco van de Voort wrote: Depacking a html zip on a slow machine takes over tens of minutes already. 7zip would make it worse. Hey, it's quicker than compiling FPC. ;-) The whole idea is to get rid of the depacked files all together, and a solid archive is useless as help format. True, but I thought I would mention that I used solid archive mode (optional of course) simply so that it could be compared to .tar.gz which is also a solid archive. Maybe. Just provide a FPC implementation of the depacker for use in the various installers, and we can test with it. I remember looking into this about a year ago. I used Total Commander with the 7-zip plugin, which is written in Delphi. And yes, it's a native pascal implementation, not a wrapper to the 7-zip .dll's. I'll see if I can track down the code and see what open source license was used. .tar.gz's are solid in a way too, so that is no surpise in this case. Not everybody has fast internet connections and others like me, only have a certain amount of bandwidth available in 30 days. So I would take the extra 3 minutes unpacking the archive any day over the size (11MB vs 1.9MB is a huge difference). But yes, I get what you are saying about getting rid on unpacked help altogether. Regards, - Graeme - fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] ref,user and prog in chm format (updated)
On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: Marco van de Voort wrote: Depacking a html zip on a slow machine takes over tens of minutes already. 7zip would make it worse. Hey, it's quicker than compiling FPC. ;-) The whole idea is to get rid of the depacked files all together, and a solid archive is useless as help format. True, but I thought I would mention that I used solid archive mode (optional of course) simply so that it could be compared to .tar.gz which is also a solid archive. Maybe. Just provide a FPC implementation of the depacker for use in the various installers, and we can test with it. I remember looking into this about a year ago. I used Total Commander with the 7-zip plugin, which is written in Delphi. And yes, it's a native pascal implementation, not a wrapper to the 7-zip .dll's. I'll see if I can track down the code and see what open source license was used. How you don't get depressed of seeing your TODO list grow by the day is a mystery to me. :( My current theory is that you rely on the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics: in each world one of your copies does 1 thing on the TODO list. Only problem is: the many worlds don't converge so the list as a whole is never solved in 1 world :( Michael. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] ref,user and prog in chm format (updated)
In our previous episode, Graeme Geldenhuys said: Depacking a html zip on a slow machine takes over tens of minutes already. 7zip would make it worse. Hey, it's quicker than compiling FPC. ;-) Well, that's why people install releases, so they don't have to :-) The whole idea is to get rid of the depacked files all together, and a solid archive is useless as help format. True, but I thought I would mention that I used solid archive mode (optional of course) simply so that it could be compared to .tar.gz which is also a solid archive. Yes. But the unix case is more difficult even, since there are no binary installers there. So there it will have to wait till the relevant distro's/OSes have 7zip in base. The whole point of .tar.gz (and the shellscript installer) is that it is always available. Maybe. Just provide a FPC implementation of the depacker for use in the various installers, and we can test with it. I remember looking into this about a year ago. I used Total Commander with the 7-zip plugin, which is written in Delphi. And yes, it's a native pascal implementation, not a wrapper to the 7-zip .dll's. Wouldn't hurt. But mostly worthwhile for windows/dos. Less for *nix and OS X (Jonas, correct me if I'm wrong) .tar.gz's are solid in a way too, so that is no surpise in this case. Not everybody has fast internet connections and others like me, only have a certain amount of bandwidth available in 30 days. So I would take the extra 3 minutes unpacking the archive any day over the size (11MB vs 1.9MB is a huge difference). But yes, I get what you are saying about getting rid on unpacked help altogether. My P233 (that I use for win98/dos compat) did 40minutes to unpack the html docs, and then 10+ minutes to index. Moreover, it is the system with the smallest HD, so the CHM helps there too. And the CHM archive is more 5MB. The problem, as always in the size discussions, is that you can't be onedimensional and focus on size alone. Then it will just hurt the people with the embedded distro's, heaps of problems mount on the ackward OSes (read: Dos). And of course people actually seeing such change all the way through after the initial suggestion is another main problem. Most people only want to fix their own usecase, and forget about the rest. Think about stuff like: - the in-pascal decompressor. - fixing the textmode installer - fixing all makefiles and related stuff. Also in the other repositories. ( fpcdocs, fpcbuild) - testbuilding releases. (as I'm now doing for chm) - being release manager for the release that introduces it, and fixing the inevitable fallout. Btw, if size is really a problem, consider generating the docs yourself. SVN has low overhead after the first time, and if you have a half decent linux distro (e.g. from a magazine) it is quite doable. Actually, that's how I got involved in docs building (in the nineties with the dreaded latex2html) in the first place. I assume GIT is not that much worse than SVN in this regard. ( :-) ) ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
