Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 06:44:52 +0100, Thomas Mueller mueller6...@twc.com wrote: from Rugxulo: One of the big problems (not counting HTML5 or Javascript or Flash) is HTTPS. Not just for DOS but for any OS that isn't top tier (big three: Mac, Win, Linux). On DOS, Dillo and Links support HTTPS. Even the lighter-weight graphic web browsers for Linux/Unix support Javascript and HTTPS, Mozilla Firefox and Seamonkey, and maybe some others, also support HTML5, but Flash is a big problem. I do not understand why everyone is so deathly afraid of HTML5. HTML5 pages do not magically stop working in HTML 4.01 browsers. HTML5 just adds some new elements, many of which are semantic and can be ignored when rendering a page. Usually when people say HTML5, they mean the audio and video elements, which currently no DOS browser supports. They are a _good_ thing. They make it possible to include audio and video without relying on proprietary technologies such as Flash (which fortunately hardly any site requires anymore, probably because of iOS's popularity). In fact, I am sure Arachne could easily support them by just rendering them as a link and then downloading the audio/video file and starting the appropriate program, like it already does. The audio and video elements pretty much are just an extended version of the old a element that support specifying multiple formats so the browser can choose one depending on what it supports. Of course, the bigger problem is that nobody really works on Arachne anymore (and I'm not blaming anyone). I've thought of buying a cheap refurbished SATA hard drive, maybe 80 GB or 160 GB, to install FreeDOS and ReactOS, and maybe OpenBSD in the remaining space, using MBR, but FreeDOS and ReactOS might be bitchy about having to be on the first partition, and then there is the limitation on FAT32 partition size; 4 KB cluster size goes up to 8GB. I don't know for ReactOS, but FreeDOS is perfectly fine with not being on the first partition. I have it installed on a disk which also has an NTFS and a BFS (Haiku) partition and everything works as it should. Why is cluster size a problem? If you have such a large disk then you probably don't care about wasting more than 4K on a small file. And it's not like [Free]DOS really requires more than a few megabytes anyway. According to Wikipedia, FAT32 can support partitions up to 2 TB with 512-byte sectors, or 16 TB with 4K sectors, but I think Windows won't let you create a partition of that size. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
I have used the boot manager from XFdisk or Grub 2 and have installed FreeDOS on the 2nd, 3rd and/or last partition following the three (root, home swap) that the ubuntu derivatives require. The the minimum FreeDOS FAT32 partition I have used is 4GB, the max is about 40gb (on a 320gb drive) the average installation is 2gb for a DOS/WIN 3.1 installation, 12GB for FreeDOS (on which most old DOS downloads are stored). I am sure as long as you have some manager that is capable of the 3-4 primary partitions, that your desired setup will work fine. On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Matej Horvat matej.hor...@guest.arnes.si wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 06:44:52 +0100, Thomas Mueller mueller6...@twc.com wrote: from Rugxulo: One of the big problems (not counting HTML5 or Javascript or Flash) is HTTPS. Not just for DOS but for any OS that isn't top tier (big three: Mac, Win, Linux). On DOS, Dillo and Links support HTTPS. Even the lighter-weight graphic web browsers for Linux/Unix support Javascript and HTTPS, Mozilla Firefox and Seamonkey, and maybe some others, also support HTML5, but Flash is a big problem. I do not understand why everyone is so deathly afraid of HTML5. HTML5 pages do not magically stop working in HTML 4.01 browsers. HTML5 just adds some new elements, many of which are semantic and can be ignored when rendering a page. Usually when people say HTML5, they mean the audio and video elements, which currently no DOS browser supports. They are a _good_ thing. They make it possible to include audio and video without relying on proprietary technologies such as Flash (which fortunately hardly any site requires anymore, probably because of iOS's popularity). In fact, I am sure Arachne could easily support them by just rendering them as a link and then downloading the audio/video file and starting the appropriate program, like it already does. The audio and video elements pretty much are just an extended version of the old a element that support specifying multiple formats so the browser can choose one depending on what it supports. Of course, the bigger problem is that nobody really works on Arachne anymore (and I'm not blaming anyone). I've thought of buying a cheap refurbished SATA hard drive, maybe 80 GB or 160 GB, to install FreeDOS and ReactOS, and maybe OpenBSD in the remaining space, using MBR, but FreeDOS and ReactOS might be bitchy about having to be on the first partition, and then there is the limitation on FAT32 partition size; 4 KB cluster size goes up to 8GB. I don't know for ReactOS, but FreeDOS is perfectly fine with not being on the first partition. I have it installed on a disk which also has an NTFS and a BFS (Haiku) partition and everything works as it should. Why is cluster size a problem? If you have such a large disk then you probably don't care about wasting more than 4K on a small file. And it's not like [Free]DOS really requires more than a few megabytes anyway. According to Wikipedia, FAT32 can support partitions up to 2 TB with 512-byte sectors, or 16 TB with 4K sectors, but I think Windows won't let you create a partition of that size. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
FAT16 is limited to 8 gigs but FAT32 goes much higher. I kinda remember Wikopedia saying 2T but could easily be wrong. DOS might have problems with SATA drive. DOS reads from the harddrive a lot. Since SATA is serial (just one bit at a time) The data ransfer rate might be too slow for DOS to live with. I know I can't get it to run on a SD card because one bit at a time is just too slow. You won't know until you try it. cheers DS On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 05:44:52 + Thomas Mueller mueller6...@twc.com writes: from Rugxulo: One of the big problems (not counting HTML5 or Javascript or Flash) is HTTPS. Not just for DOS but for any OS that isn't top tier (big three: Mac, Win, Linux). It has recently come to my attention that many popular websites are now requiring it, which makes it very hard to operate unless your web browser can support it. And, in case it wasn't obvious, there are only a handful of modern web browsers (and host OSes) that work for such modern needs. Thus, anything that isn't top tier (Firefox, Chrome, IE, Safari) is practically ignored / banned. And even some of those are struggling. We're lucky just to have anything that halfway works anymore (mTCP, Dillo, Links, Arachne). Even the lighter-weight graphic web browsers for Linux/Unix support Javascript and HTTPS, Mozilla Firefox and Seamonkey, and maybe some others, also support HTML5, but Flash is a big problem. Mozilla Firefox and Seamonkey run on BSD as well as Linux. FreeBSD ports also includes Netsurf, Qupzilla, Midori and Epiphany; KDE includes Konqueror; Javascript and HTTPS are supported. I never downloaded the newest Arachne from March 2013 for lack of ability to run it. I notice Net-Tamer for DOS hasn't been updated since 1999; even Netscape and Internet Explorer from that time would be very limited in function. from Dale E Sterner: According to wikopedia GPT is a king sized version of MBR. Can you try a smaller hardrive that uses a MBR? If your bios can still boot a hard drive with a MBR. I've thought of buying a cheap refurbished SATA hard drive, maybe 80 GB or 160 GB, to install FreeDOS and ReactOS, and maybe OpenBSD in the remaining space, using MBR, but FreeDOS and ReactOS might be bitchy about having to be on the first partition, and then there is the limitation on FAT32 partition size; 4 KB cluster size goes up to 8GB. Tom - - Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clk trk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user Protect what matters Floods can happen anywhere. Learn your risk and find an agent today. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3165/547dca98c3c564a955165mp05duc ** From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052 *** -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
DOS might have problems with SATA drive. DOS reads from the harddrive a lot. Since SATA is serial (just one bit at a time) The data ransfer rate might be too slow for DOS to live with. I know I can't get it to run on a SD card because one bit at a time is just too slow. back in the good old times, when DOS was popular, PATA disk drives used PIO for transfer, which is limited to (less then) 8 MB/sec. currently, SATA hard disks transfer up to 120 MB/sec and SATA SSDs transfer ~500 MB/sec. this should be fast enough even for DOS. You won't know until you try it. I don't have the faintest idea what you are doing wrong, but you are doing it the wrong anyway. Tom -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com wrote: FAT16 is limited to 8 gigs but FAT32 goes much higher. I kinda remember Wikopedia saying 2T but could easily be wrong. FAT16 is limited to a 2GB volume size. FAT32 goes up to 8TB. In FAT*, the basic unit of space it the cluster, and there will be a limit on the number of clusters. Each cluster must have a unique address. FAT16 uses a 16 bit cluster address, so there are 65,536 possible clusters. The maximum size a cluster can be is 32KB. 65,536 x 32KB = 2,097,152 bytes FAT32 uses a 32 bit cluster address, so there are 268,435,445 possible clusters. Again, the maximum size a cluster can be is 32KB. 268,435,445 x 32KB = 8,589,934,240 bytes If you are trying to format the drive as FAT32 from within Windows, there may be limitations on volume size imposed by the MS format utility. DOS might have problems with SATA drive. DOS reads from the harddrive a lot. Since SATA is serial (just one bit at a time) The data ransfer rate might be too slow for DOS to live with. You really need to update your knowledge. While it seems counter-intuitive, current SATA drives are much *faster* than IDE drives, with higher data transfer rates. *Getting* that throughput was a major reason behind the shift to SATA. I know I can't get it to run on a SD card because one bit at a time is just too slow. You won't know until you try it. SATA != SD. There is no reason inherent to the card why SD should be slower than CF. In fact, the reverse is generally true. Variables will include native card speed (some SD cards are faster than others), the adapter you are using, and the host hardware and OS. I've run stuff from SD cards here just fine. cheers DS __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
This is getting highly off-topic, but I couldn't resist commenting on. :) On 12/02/2014 05:02 PM, dmccunney wrote: FAT32 uses a 32 bit cluster address, so there are 268,435,445 possible clusters. The above statement might sound confusing for the occasional reader. To straighten things up: FAT32 actually uses 28 bit cluster addresses (that it stores inside 32 bit blocks, but this is irrelevant for the subject discussed), which gives us 2^28 possible clusters (268'435'456). Mateusz -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste.fr wrote: This is getting highly off-topic, but I couldn't resist commenting on. :) On 12/02/2014 05:02 PM, dmccunney wrote: FAT32 uses a 32 bit cluster address, so there are 268,435,445 possible clusters. The above statement might sound confusing for the occasional reader. To straighten things up: FAT32 actually uses 28 bit cluster addresses (that it stores inside 32 bit blocks, but this is irrelevant for the subject discussed), which gives us 2^28 possible clusters (268'435'456). True, and thanks for the correction. Mateusz __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Quickview 2.60 (digressions)
On the matter of browsers for DOS, Lynx, which I am using now, supports https and has done so for 10+ years. What is not available in any DOS browser is javascript. Much of javascript in web pages is to load and reload advertising, which I don't miss at all. However, the (action) in many html forms nowadays is not a remote URL but a local javascript, that checks and reformats the data before submitting it to the remote. This is where I really miss javascript support. JAS -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
Serial devices are always slow; I don't know how they get around it. SD cards are serial like SATA and they really are slow. The hard drive clock must be super fast to get those speeds. They also have to transfer handshakes serially. I wonder how its done. Some really great engineering there. cheers DS On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 17:00:49 +0100 Tom Ehlert t...@drivesnapshot.de writes: DOS might have problems with SATA drive. DOS reads from the harddrive a lot. Since SATA is serial (just one bit at a time) The data ransfer rate might be too slow for DOS to live with. I know I can't get it to run on a SD card because one bit at a time is just too slow. back in the good old times, when DOS was popular, PATA disk drives used PIO for transfer, which is limited to (less then) 8 MB/sec. currently, SATA hard disks transfer up to 120 MB/sec and SATA SSDs transfer ~500 MB/sec. this should be fast enough even for DOS. You won't know until you try it. I don't have the faintest idea what you are doing wrong, but you are doing it the wrong anyway. Tom - - Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clk trk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user $1,200 Instant #34;Dividend#34; This woman collects $1,200 instant dividends with just a few mouse clicks http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3165/547e5da564e3f5da53787mp06duc ** From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052 *** -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
Tranferings 1 bit at a time is always slower than 8 bits at a time. if the clock stays the same for both. How SATA beats this is something I don't understand. SATA doesn't have seperate handshaking outputs so handshkes have to travel the same serial lines. Quit a feat of engineering there. When I try to format very large SD chips with DOS; the software just gives up. Small sd chips do format but slowly. Large CF chips format in a few seconds. cheers DS.. On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 11:02:56 -0500 dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com wrote: FAT16 is limited to 8 gigs but FAT32 goes much higher. I kinda remember Wikopedia saying 2T but could easily be wrong. FAT16 is limited to a 2GB volume size. FAT32 goes up to 8TB. In FAT*, the basic unit of space it the cluster, and there will be a limit on the number of clusters. Each cluster must have a unique address. FAT16 uses a 16 bit cluster address, so there are 65,536 possible clusters. The maximum size a cluster can be is 32KB. 65,536 x 32KB = 2,097,152 bytes FAT32 uses a 32 bit cluster address, so there are 268,435,445 possible clusters. Again, the maximum size a cluster can be is 32KB. 268,435,445 x 32KB = 8,589,934,240 bytes If you are trying to format the drive as FAT32 from within Windows, there may be limitations on volume size imposed by the MS format utility. DOS might have problems with SATA drive. DOS reads from the harddrive a lot. Since SATA is serial (just one bit at a time) The data ransfer rate might be too slow for DOS to live with. You really need to update your knowledge. While it seems counter-intuitive, current SATA drives are much *faster* than IDE drives, with higher data transfer rates. *Getting* that throughput was a major reason behind the shift to SATA. I know I can't get it to run on a SD card because one bit at a time is just too slow. You won't know until you try it. SATA != SD. There is no reason inherent to the card why SD should be slower than CF. In fact, the reverse is generally true. Variables will include native card speed (some SD cards are faster than others), the adapter you are using, and the host hardware and OS. I've run stuff from SD cards here just fine. cheers DS __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 - - Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clk trk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user Buffett#39;s Top 5 Stocks Go here to get Buffett#39;s Top 5 Stocks, plus his 16 latest buys, FREE http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3165/547e5da58ec6f5da53787mp06duc ** From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052 *** -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com wrote: Tranferings 1 bit at a time is always slower than 8 bits at a time. if the clock stays the same for both. How SATA beats this is something I don't understand. SATA doesn't have seperate handshaking outputs so handshkes have to travel the same serial lines. Quit a feat of engineering there. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA Did you stop learning about the technology once you learned enough about DOS to do what you wanted? A lot of what you post here seems to be based on 25 year old ideas about how this stuff works. The technology has progressed a bit, and you seem to be making assumptions that may not be true for current hardware and OSes. When I try to format very large SD chips with DOS; the software just gives up. Small sd chips do format but slowly. Large CF chips format in a few seconds. That's an OS and old hardware issue, It's not inherent to SD. And it's not clear why you would *need* to format an SD card of any size. Depending on volume size, they come formatted as FAT16 or FAT32. I've formatted them for other reasons, like using a Linux ext3 file system or NTFS. I put the card into an SD adapter and do the format from my desktop machine. It's quite quick, thanks. cheers DS.. __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
I can think of only 2 ways an engineer can get those speeds out of a serial device. A very fast clock or big external buffers. I think DOS could handle a fast clock but if they use buffers; DOS may not know how to use them like windows or Linux. I never used SATA so I can't say. You would be in good position to know. As far as formating an SD chip; sometimes the format gets corrupted and you need to redo it. DOS just doesn't do well on the big stuff; no problem ever with cf chips. cheers DS On Tue, 2 Dec 2014 20:54:49 -0500 dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com wrote: Tranferings 1 bit at a time is always slower than 8 bits at a time. if the clock stays the same for both. How SATA beats this is something I don't understand. SATA doesn't have seperate handshaking outputs so handshkes have to travel the same serial lines. Quit a feat of engineering there. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA Did you stop learning about the technology once you learned enough about DOS to do what you wanted? A lot of what you post here seems to be based on 25 year old ideas about how this stuff works. The technology has progressed a bit, and you seem to be making assumptions that may not be true for current hardware and OSes. When I try to format very large SD chips with DOS; the software just gives up. Small sd chips do format but slowly. Large CF chips format in a few seconds. That's an OS and old hardware issue, It's not inherent to SD. And it's not clear why you would *need* to format an SD card of any size. Depending on volume size, they come formatted as FAT16 or FAT32. I've formatted them for other reasons, like using a Linux ext3 file system or NTFS. I put the card into an SD adapter and do the format from my desktop machine. It's quite quick, thanks. cheers DS.. __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 - - Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clk trk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user Are YOU Dumb? Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader? 79% Of Users Failed This Quiz! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3165/547e6e549e1766e5422demp01duc ** From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052 *** -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview 2.60 (digressions)
Hi, On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Jose Antonio Senna jasse...@vivointernetdiscada.com.br wrote: On the matter of browsers for DOS, Lynx, which I am using now, supports https and has done so for 10+ years. What is not available in any DOS browser is javascript. Much of javascript in web pages is to load and reload advertising, which I don't miss at all. However, the (action) in many html forms nowadays is not a remote URL but a local javascript, that checks and reformats the data before submitting it to the remote. This is where I really miss javascript support. It was reported recently that SourceForge has changed the way they allow subscriptions to their email lists. So one guy with an old setup suddenly couldn't subscribe because his (old Opera) web browser couldn't validate certificates (or something weird like that). And then I went way down the rabbit hole trying to help him find a lite Linux liveCD for his old Athlon computer, but it doesn't sound like there's a perfect answer since even Firefox requires SSE2 these days. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 21:13:59 -0500, Dale E Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com wrote: I can think of only 2 ways an engineer can get those speeds out of a serial device. A very fast clock or big external buffers. I think DOS could handle a fast clock It is a very fast clock, 1.5 GHz and beyond. It uses differential signaling (two wires to transmit one bit) which is less vulnerable to noise. The IDE interface could not run at such a high frequency because it uses 5V TTL signaling, like an old motherboard bus (or parallel printer port). Except where a motherboard has multiple layers with a ground plane and whatnot to control noise, a ribbon cable doesn't. The 80-conductor ribbon cables have extra ground wires to improve signal integrity and allowed the speed to increase from 16.6MHz (ATA 33) to 66MHz (ATA 133). The original speed for the IDE interface was 1.66MHz (PIO 0). Hypothetically, they could have used high-speed differential signaling AND a connector with multiple bits in parallel for even more speed. This is basically what a PCI-express graphics slot is. but if they use buffers; DOS may not know how to use them like windows or Linux. I never used SATA so I can't say. You would be in good position to know. As far as formating an SD chip; sometimes the format gets corrupted and you need to redo it. DOS just doesn't do well on the big stuff; no problem ever with cf chips. The DOS format utility is kind of an anachronism at this point. Usually it takes a long time to format a partition because it's iterating through every sector of the disk. It's completely unnecessary these days. All it really needs to do is write a boot sector, FAT, and root directory. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Quickview ver 2.60
On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 07:55:59 -0500, Matej Horvat matej.hor...@guest.arnes.si wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 06:44:52 +0100, Thomas Mueller mueller6...@twc.com wrote: from Rugxulo: One of the big problems (not counting HTML5 or Javascript or Flash) is HTTPS. Not just for DOS but for any OS that isn't top tier (big three: Mac, Win, Linux). On DOS, Dillo and Links support HTTPS. Even the lighter-weight graphic web browsers for Linux/Unix support Javascript and HTTPS, Mozilla Firefox and Seamonkey, and maybe some others, also support HTML5, but Flash is a big problem. I do not understand why everyone is so deathly afraid of HTML5. HTML5 pages do not magically stop working in HTML 4.01 browsers. HTML5 just adds some new elements, many of which are semantic and can be ignored when rendering a page. According to wiki, HTML 4.01 dates back to 2001, so technically there are huge number of HTML 4.01 browsers when including the various versions released since 2001. CSS is probably the biggest reason for websites not working right in any case. Some sites are completely reliant on Javascript and are useless otherwise, but I have seen a few that will still work right in an old browser. Tons and tons of sites don't render properly or at all, with or without JS, because of CSS issues. Sometimes I go into a page's source code and delete or edit sections to make it display. Usually when people say HTML5, they mean the audio and video elements, which currently no DOS browser supports. They are a _good_ thing. They make it possible to include audio and video without relying on proprietary technologies such as Flash (which fortunately hardly any site requires anymore, probably because of iOS's popularity). In fact, I am sure Arachne could easily support them by just rendering them as a link and then downloading the audio/video file and starting the appropriate program, like it already does. The audio and video elements pretty much are just an extended version of the old a element that support specifying multiple formats so the browser can choose one depending on what it supports. Haha. A simple link to an audio or video file? But that's exactly what the site operators don't want, or they could have done it in the first place. It would be way too easy. In Opera version 4, one could click a link to an AVI file and it would download and play in the browser window. Of course, since an AVI file has the index chunk at the end, the whole thing had to transfer before playback could begin. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
