Re: [FRIAM] Language Model Understanding
A nihilist can still have preferences. > On Oct 12, 2023, at 10:21 AM, glen wrote: > > I think that's an ideological stance, not a brute fact. The use of the term > "better" is nothing but an "ought", which is difficult to derive from an "is". > >> On 10/9/23 10:07, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> We are better off if the ones that carry demonstrably false claims are >> proportionately devalued. > > -- > ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ > > -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
Re: [FRIAM] natalism
Yep. And the same is true with Frank's trolling about the well-definedness of truth. Consistency, like reduction and isolation, is a fantastic tool but a bad master. When Hanson argues that we must continue to have babies or risk the halt of innovation, it's with a fixed backdrop, worldview. Adopting his "coordinate system" is pretty easy for me, having been reared in what I expect is a similar context. It's more difficult to adopt a radical view. I'm just not a radical. But still, I find myself fairly easily slipping into the perspectives of some radicals I've had the privilege to read (e.g. Fannon). That might mean I'm inherently unstable, disintegrated, or whatever. And maybe that implies I shouldn't be doing any entheogens. Booo! Conservatism is wasted on old people. Old people should proudly don and doff various freak flags. And young people should cling desperately to their myopia as best they can, exploit their niche while their energy maintains. I just returned from a visit to Utah. The hotel was hosting a reunion of some arbitrary collection of ancient Marines. Wow. Just. Wow. All the handicap parking places were full every night ... every one of them adorned with various sorts of macho posturing bumper stickers (e.g. "Secured By: F*ck around and find out" - or "Smith & Wesson" - or some ironic nonsense about the scourge of socialism). Of course, there were a few of us bearded long-hairs in and out of the breakfast area. But boy howdy did we get the Evil Eye from the majority of those old farts. I can only imagine what the upside down pentagram on my t-shirt might mean to them (maybe that I'm a member of O9A), or the fact that I'm the sole escort for a gaggle of Renee's grandkids ... god only knows what heresy I teach those kids when nobody's around. Were I an actual cynic, I'd carry baggies of mushrooms to dose the breakfast materials before those fogies even arose. (I'm sure they'd be surprised to find out I'm up at the crack of dawn every day.) It'd be Freakin' Hilarious to see them *liberated*, prone on the floor in the lobby pondering the beautiful shapes in the false ceiling ... or staring deeply into their coffee, watching the milk mimic the swirling galaxies. If Hanson's right about anything, it's a corollary: society advances one funeral at a time. On 10/12/23 10:49, Steve Smith wrote: I think I agree with this spirit... and the invocation of a high-dimensional (but finitely so) landscape is not only the constraints we live in, but in some sense the ones we *choose* to live in? I think excess/sloppy meaning might be another term for a local/temporary increase (or exchange) of dimensionality, effectively lowering the thresholds between basins? In anthropological terms I think we are in "shaman" territory (the perspective/insight to selectively shift the dimensions around for the group as-needed)? Also maybe the point of psychedelic/entheogenic substances? We are reading Pollan's "How to Change your Mind" at the moment. -- ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
Re: [FRIAM] natalism
Glen - I think I agree with this spirit... and the invocation of a high-dimensional (but finitely so) landscape is not only the constraints we live in, but in some sense the ones we *choose* to live in? I think excess/sloppy meaning might be another term for a local/temporary increase (or exchange) of dimensionality, effectively lowering the thresholds between basins? In anthropological terms I think we are in "shaman" territory (the perspective/insight to selectively shift the dimensions around for the group as-needed)? Also maybe the point of psychedelic/entheogenic substances? We are reading Pollan's "How to Change your Mind" at the moment. Well, *if* one is constrained to inhabiting attractors to begin with, then a mechanism for hopping between attractors is a "good thing". But I'd argue that this is a mere band-aide, treating the symptom rather than the cause. The real disorder is the tendency to inhabit attractors ... or perhaps the intensity with which one gets trapped in such ruts. There seems to be a tyranny of specialization ... "siloization". If I have any hope for LLMs, it's to remove the burden of depth and free us up for more breadth ... or at least those of us wealthy enough to use LLMs. Let them eat cake. On 10/9/23 10:52, Steve Smith wrote: It feels as if the very "excess meaning" (or sloppy meaning?) you ?disparage? in cognitive metaphor is, in fact, what makes them so "powerful". To the extent the point of "powerful speech" or "powerful thoughts" might be to jump over the threshold/saddle from one attractor to another, this makes sense (for better and worse)... -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
Re: [FRIAM] natalism
Well, *if* one is constrained to inhabiting attractors to begin with, then a mechanism for hopping between attractors is a "good thing". But I'd argue that this is a mere band-aide, treating the symptom rather than the cause. The real disorder is the tendency to inhabit attractors ... or perhaps the intensity with which one gets trapped in such ruts. There seems to be a tyranny of specialization ... "siloization". If I have any hope for LLMs, it's to remove the burden of depth and free us up for more breadth ... or at least those of us wealthy enough to use LLMs. Let them eat cake. On 10/9/23 10:52, Steve Smith wrote: It feels as if the very "excess meaning" (or sloppy meaning?) you ?disparage? in cognitive metaphor is, in fact, what makes them so "powerful". To the extent the point of "powerful speech" or "powerful thoughts" might be to jump over the threshold/saddle from one attractor to another, this makes sense (for better and worse)... -- ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
Re: [FRIAM] Language Model Understanding
I think that's an ideological stance, not a brute fact. The use of the term "better" is nothing but an "ought", which is difficult to derive from an "is". On 10/9/23 10:07, Marcus Daniels wrote: We are better off if the ones that carry demonstrably false claims are proportionately devalued. -- ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
