Re: [gentoo-user] the xen-source on gentoo
On Jun 17, 2012 12:29 PM, 赵佳晖 jiahui.tar...@gmail.com wrote: In my Processor page, i just find the kvm support.. --- Paravirtualized guest support │ │ │ │ [ ] Paravirtual steal time accounting (NEW) │ │ │ │ [ ] KVM paravirtualized clock (NEW) │ │ │ │ [ ] KVM Guest support (NEW) │ │ │ │ [ ] Lguest guest support (NEW) │ │ │ │ [ ] Enable paravirtualization code (NEW) │ │ │ │ │ │ Please do not top-post. Try turning on Enable paravirtualization code. Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Gnome3
On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 2:22 PM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/16/2012 12:01 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: BTW, using GNOME 3 for more than one year in my laptop and desktop, and I love it. I also want a tablet with it. Are you using any of the extensions Linus was discussing? I'm using the Remove Accessibility Extension, so the accessibility icon doesn't appear in the top bar; the Auto Move Windows Extension, so Emacs is always in virtual desktop 1, Chrome in virtual desktop 2, etc.; and the Weather indicator Extension, to know that it's raining. That's all the extensions I'm using; in my desktop I also use Alternative Status Menu Extension to be able to hibernate (suspend to disk) it: I can suspend to RAM just fine, but I like to save power. I don't remember the extensions Linus mentioned. I'm using gnome3 in fallback mode because most of my machines are too old to have the hardware needed to run ghome-shell. I haven't tried any gnome3 extensions yet on my one new machine that will run gnome-shell. I have an nvidia card in my desktop, with the nouveau drivers. My laptop uses a simple intel card; but run the full GNOME experience; I actually don't like the fall back mode. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 03:13:50 +0200 Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 16. Juni 2012, 19:06:30 schrieb Michael Mol: On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Samstag, 16. Juni 2012, 23:12:48 schrieb Alan McKinnon: On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 00:00:04 +0300 Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 16/06/12 21:27, walt wrote: I guess they figure the desktop will be extinct relatively soon and their customer base will vanish unless they capture the smartphone market. Ah yes, the death of the desktop PC, which is happening for 15 years now. Are we dead yet? Fine comment. Yes indeed, Microsoft's *real* cash cow - millions of corporate desktops running $LATEST_WINDOWS and $LATEST_OFFICE are all going to die out inthe next year. Not. and in corporate speak that means Windows XP and Office 2003/2007 because they work, they don't get in the way of doing things, the people are trained and nobody needs to smudge around on the screen, The most effective way I can imagine for keeping me on-task: Force me to use a Windows XP workstation. I won't be using _any_ personal credentials through the web browser or any other part of the system. I'm not taking that risk on a post-support version of Windows. win xp is still supported. have you ever dealt with 'standard office workers'? No, I haven't much. I refuse to deal with such people (because if I have to they produce a reaction in me that gets me fired...) But I have dealt with the tools they use They want to use the same tools every freaking day. You must mean the typical corporate bespoke app. You know the ones - the apps that wraps the company's entire business logic and makes business possible. Now these apps are atrocious. The worst of the worst you will ever find in the Android App Store is a beautiful model of efficiency compared to the best bespoke corporate app out there. The buttons go in the weirdest places. The workflow is bizarre. They tend to make no bloody sense at all. But people have gotten used to the save button in the lower left corner where it cannot be found, and changing that crashes the entire business process for a week. If anyone thinks I'm kidding, I assure you I am not. The icons on the same place. The menu items unchanged. The smallest change throws them off balance. Going from one office version to another - like 2000-2003 is a disaster. And while 20072010 are superior in every regard these people are helpless if you confront them with such drastic changes. And an Office upgrade is a slick easy one to do. If Office upgrades cause such havoc, imagine what changing the bespoke stuff does Now imagine an update to vista, win7 or win8 Not everybody is a computer geek. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
[gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Gnome3
On Sun, 2012-06-17 at 04:00 -0500, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 2:22 PM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/16/2012 12:01 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: BTW, using GNOME 3 for more than one year in my laptop and desktop, and I love it. I also want a tablet with it. Are you using any of the extensions Linus was discussing? I'm using the Remove Accessibility Extension, so the accessibility icon doesn't appear in the top bar; the Auto Move Windows Extension, so Emacs is always in virtual desktop 1, Chrome in virtual desktop 2, etc.; and the Weather indicator Extension, to know that it's raining. That's all the extensions I'm using; in my desktop I also use Alternative Status Menu Extension to be able to hibernate (suspend to disk) it: I can suspend to RAM just fine, but I like to save power. I don't remember the extensions Linus mentioned. I'm using gnome3 in fallback mode because most of my machines are too old to have the hardware needed to run ghome-shell. I haven't tried any gnome3 extensions yet on my one new machine that will run gnome-shell. I have an nvidia card in my desktop, with the nouveau drivers. My laptop uses a simple intel card; but run the full GNOME experience; I actually don't like the fall back mode. Regards. The weather extension I am using is very inaccurate - if it says rain, it could have at some point a few daya ago ... or in the future ... hard to tell (for Western Australia). There is no weather map/radar map. At least gnome2 displayed the metar data from the airport which is spot on. This almost seems like a different location (though its actually common for overseas sources of local weather data to be really way off - my samsung galaxy phone is similar, and prior to that the apps on a nokia n900 ... same). The fonts are really screwed up - I have two gnome 3 systems, one after trying to follow a few guides just looks crappy but I can read them, the other (crt, not lcd) keeps getting corrupted (almost looks like it is selecting wingdings or a chinese glyph font) so you have to log out/in to be able to read things - nothing else seems to work. Sometimes its the titlebars or just desktop icon titles, other times the panels in evolution and firefox, or everything. Its quite unreliable on both systems, dropping dead (restarting X) or requiring logging out/in or manually restarting X from a console to get control at least once a day. Then there is the new workflow model ... its crap! The unbuntu folks at work have been wrestling with it longer than me and seem lukewarm on the whole thing even after having plenty of time to get used to it. Then there is the constant jibes from the windows users - at least when win8 comes out I'll be able to laugh back at them (or is it cry along with them :) I am trying to persevere as its the coming thing ... that is, I thought it would be until I tried it and realised its just a bad dream. A lot of problems (lack of stability) are obviously bugs and will be fixed. The crappy extensions, ditto when someone gets around making real ones instead of hacks to quickly fill the holes left by not having any functionality built in (by the way, having an extension to restart the shell because it gets corrupted is a prime example of whats wrong with gnome at the moment :( The extension installation via a browser looks good until you start to think of the security implications ... it feels very apple-ish in a bad kind of way - giving up control to a third party you dont really know/trust. BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Gnome3
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 18:03:36 William Kenworthy wrote: The weather extension I am using is very inaccurate - if it says rain, it could have at some point a few daya ago ... or in the future ... hard to tell (for Western Australia). There is no weather map/radar map. At Here is a weather radar for Perth, along with the local forcast. http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR703.shtml http://www.bom.gov.au/wa/forecasts/map.shtml More radar locations can be found at http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/radar/ -- Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC.http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first: http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3
Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan: Just in case anyone missed it: https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I Rgds, reeading that and this thread: as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0 I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Gnome3
On Sun, 2012-06-17 at 20:24 +1000, Paul Colquhoun wrote: On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 18:03:36 William Kenworthy wrote: The weather extension I am using is very inaccurate - if it says rain, it could have at some point a few daya ago ... or in the future ... hard to tell (for Western Australia). There is no weather map/radar map. At Here is a weather radar for Perth, along with the local forcast. http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR703.shtml http://www.bom.gov.au/wa/forecasts/map.shtml More radar locations can be found at http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/radar/ Been using those for years - along with scripts for screen scraping to extract the image and insert it into the gnome2 weather app - cant find a way do that with gnome 3, maybe I should pull the source and try and make something that works, and is accurate ... need more hours in the day tho. BillK
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3
On Sun, 2012-06-17 at 12:31 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan: Just in case anyone missed it: https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I Rgds, reeading that and this thread: as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0 I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation. quick, pass the tin hat, someone can see me! :) BillK
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Jun 17, 2012 4:42 PM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. Here's the mobile version of the above: http://m.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280 Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own. There is no best desktop environment. There are only preferences. I like GNOME 3 a lot, and (in my personal case) it has helped me to actually improve my productivity in my what I do; other users may experience the opposite, even if they do exactly the same things I do. Other users maybe do something completely different, and they may also benefit from GNOME 3. Really, use whatever floats your boat. And if you don't like a particular software (or developer, or design), then simply don't use it. I really, really, *really* don't like KDE. I have never done (and I tried versions 1, 2, and 3; I lost interest in trying for version 4); but I have *never* told anyone that they should not use it, nor criticized their users and developers. It's none of my business; I don't like it, therefore I don't use it. Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz. Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan: Just in case anyone missed it: https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I Rgds, reeading that and this thread: as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0 I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation. -- #163933 I must be really special since I'm completely productive and happy with Gnome 3 . . . . I'll need the tin hat, too. Seems rather stylish, right now.
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
Re CAA2qdGUzjvpsZ6bB7oTHTKDo+HFC95Ma+PraEZOQzVtED5ESfw@mail.gmail.comcaa2qdguzjvpsz6bb7othtkdo+hfc95ma+praezoqzvted5e...@mail.gmail.com, Canek Peláez Valdés said: Really, use whatever floats your boat. And if you don't like a particular software (or developer, or design), then simply don't use it. That's the really nice thing about the Linux platform. You have choices. But it seems to be human nature that as soon as you have choices people will argue over what's best. But I like choices. This is also why I use Gentoo Linux. :-) BTW, I recently eradicated Gnome from my systems. I'm strictly XFCE now. I'm happy and thankful to the xfce developers to have that choice. -- Keith -- -- ~ Keith Dart ke...@dartworks.biz public key: ID: 19017044 http://www.dartworks.biz/ =
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 11:52:48 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-li nux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own. one question - how can you call something that doesn't even let you change the fonts call a 'desktop environment'? -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 11:52:48 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-li nux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own. one question - how can you call something that doesn't even let you change the fonts call a 'desktop environment'? -- #163933 Ignoring the fact that I *can* change the font, why should I have to? It's fine as it is for me ;).
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Alecks Gates aleck...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan: Just in case anyone missed it: https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I Rgds, reeading that and this thread: as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0 I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation. -- #163933 I must be really special since I'm completely productive and happy with Gnome 3 . . . . Haven't you heard? Those of us who like GNOME 3 are nothing but fanbois. Sorry to break the news to you; I didn't know either, and it was also a shock to me. I'm trying to live now a regular life knowing that I'm just a fanboi, but I suppose it's hard, since we obviously don't know what the hell are we doing if we like such a gigantic mess like GNOME 3 is. (I *really* think I should not have the need to said this, but just to cover all the bases: All of the above is sarcasm.) Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 11:52:48 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-li nux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own. one question - how can you call something that doesn't even let you change the fonts call a 'desktop environment'? Really? I try to write a conciliatory post about how we should respect each others preferences and that's the first thing you respond? To all of us who actually believe that everyone has the right to like whatever they choose, please don't feed the trolls. The intent of my post was exactly to prevent flame wars. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. For me? I like using awesomewm where I can, though sometimes I switch to XFCE where useful. KDE isn't bad, except for compile times; I'm not enough of a KDE power user to really be affected by the differences between KDE3 and KDE4. I tend to recommend LXDE, XFCE or GNOME to Linux newcomers, depending on where they're coming from. LXDE is an excellent choice if the newbie hails from WinXP, for example. XFCE is reasonable for Mac or late-model Windows users. GNOME (either 2 or 3) is reasonable for low-end users. I don't deal with many I don't want to touch it users, but for those, I found netbook-oriented window managers work best. The less the user has to think about the interface, the more they can get on to complaining about apps. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. I use ICEWM with my most-used apps in the launch menu and launchbar. Desktop users moving to LXDE or XFCE is perfectly understandable. -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3
On 17/06/12 22:12, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Alecks Gates aleck...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan: Just in case anyone missed it: https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I Rgds, reeading that and this thread: as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0 I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation. -- #163933 I must be really special since I'm completely productive and happy with Gnome 3 . . . . Haven't you heard? Those of us who like GNOME 3 are nothing but fanbois. Sorry to break the news to you; I didn't know either, and it was also a shock to me. I'm trying to live now a regular life knowing that I'm just a fanboi, but I suppose it's hard, since we obviously don't know what the hell are we doing if we like such a gigantic mess like GNOME 3 is. (I *really* think I should not have the need to said this, but just to cover all the bases: All of the above is sarcasm.) Regards. People using Gnome don't need to get upset because a website posts a review where KDE wins, or a high-profile community member like Torvalds bashes it. Gnome sucks. It sucks really, really bad. But this is only the opinion of the one writing that statement. Like fortune cookie told me when I logged in today: Opinions are like assholes -- everyone's got one, but nobody wants to look at the other guy's. -- Hal Hickman
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/06/12 22:12, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Alecks Gates aleck...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan: Just in case anyone missed it: https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I Rgds, reeading that and this thread: as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0 I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation. -- #163933 I must be really special since I'm completely productive and happy with Gnome 3 . . . . Haven't you heard? Those of us who like GNOME 3 are nothing but fanbois. Sorry to break the news to you; I didn't know either, and it was also a shock to me. I'm trying to live now a regular life knowing that I'm just a fanboi, but I suppose it's hard, since we obviously don't know what the hell are we doing if we like such a gigantic mess like GNOME 3 is. (I *really* think I should not have the need to said this, but just to cover all the bases: All of the above is sarcasm.) Regards. People using Gnome don't need to get upset because a website posts a review where KDE wins, or a high-profile community member like Torvalds bashes it. Gnome sucks. It sucks really, really bad. But this is only the opinion of the one writing that statement. Like fortune cookie told me when I logged in today: Opinions are like assholes -- everyone's got one, but nobody wants to look at the other guy's. -- Hal Hickman As near as I can tell, it's not the GNOME users that are upset but rather the people bashing it. It's almost like reverse trolling... I can just sit here and nod my head while someone complains all day long! If you don't like it, fine. Don't get yourself upset over it, not that you, personally, are getting upset.
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way. This is why DEs are so popular.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way. This is why DEs are so popular. We had a unified look and feel...but nobody liked that particular Motif. ;) -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:17:46 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way. This is why DEs are so popular. There's more to a DE than that. On as multitasking system, applications are not run in isolation. A integrated system allows applications to work together rather than just running at the same time. -- Neil Bothwick This tagline is baroque; please call Bach. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On 18/06/12 00:33, Michael Mol wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way. This is why DEs are so popular. We had a unified look and feel...but nobody liked that particular Motif. ;) That was a corporate Unix thing though, not desktop Linux. Good riddance :-P
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 17:33:58 schrieb Michael Mol: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications. It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way. This is why DEs are so popular. We had a unified look and feel...but nobody liked that particular Motif. ;) and it wasn't even that unified. And certainly not the feel with every application reacting differently to some keypress. -- #163933
[gentoo-user] Alternatives to the gnome-system-monitor panel applet?
(I considered posting this into the Linus-bashing-gnome3 thread, then I decided against it :) There are tons of stuff in gnome(any version) that I don't need, but for many years I've stuck with gnome for one, maybe silly, reason. The gnome-system-monitor applet displays graphs of processor use, memory use, network load, disk activity, and swap usage in one tiny panel applet about 5cm wide and 1cm high. The important thing to me is that the graphs display the values of all of those things over last 60 seconds or so. And the graphs are never hidden behind other windows because the panel is always visible. Over the years I've caught $LARGE_NUMBER of bugs that show up as inappropriate cpu load or excessive memory use or network traffic or hard-disk activity. Yes, that's my own fault because I choose to live on the bleeding edge :) I get pain and pleasure at the same time -- but I don't need to explain that to this group :p I'd probably be using xfce if not for that one panel applet. Any suggestions?
[gentoo-user] Noisy dd operation
So, I'm using dd to write the Gentoo LiveDVD ISO directly to an SDHC card. I was wondering why the transfer rate had slowed from 20MB/s to 6MB/s, so I ran 'sudo tail -f /var/log/messages' to see if there were I/O errors slowing things down. What I found was a flood-stream of message blocks that look like this: Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458632] usb-storage: queuecommand_lck called Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458670] usb-storage: *** thread awakened. Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458685] usb-storage: Command WRITE_10 (10 bytes) Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458687] usb-storage: 2a 00 00 2b f3 80 00 00 f0 00 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458694] usb-storage: rts51x_invoke_transport: --- Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458697] usb-storage: rts51x_invoke_transport: working scsi, intf-pm_usage_cnt:1,power.usage:1 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458701] usb-storage: Bulk Command S 0x43425355 T 0x34ef L 122880 F 0 Trg 0 LUN 0 CL 10 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458704] usb-storage: usb_stor_bulk_transfer_buf: xfer 31 bytes Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458759] usb-storage: Status code 0; transferred 31/31 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458761] usb-storage: -- transfer complete Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458763] usb-storage: Bulk command transfer result=0 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458766] usb-storage: usb_stor_bulk_transfer_sglist: xfer 122880 bytes, 18 entries Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486031] usb-storage: Status code 0; transferred 122880/122880 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486035] usb-storage: -- transfer complete Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486037] usb-storage: Bulk data transfer result 0x0 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486039] usb-storage: Attempting to get CSW... Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486042] usb-storage: usb_stor_bulk_transfer_buf: xfer 13 bytes Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491787] usb-storage: Status code 0; transferred 13/13 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491790] usb-storage: -- transfer complete Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491793] usb-storage: Bulk status result = 0 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491795] usb-storage: Bulk Status S 0x53425355 T 0x34ef R 0 Stat 0x0 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491800] usb-storage: rts51x_invoke_transport: state:2 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491802] usb-storage: rts51x_modi_suspend_timer: ---, state:2 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491805] usb-storage: rts51x_modi_suspend_timer: --- Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491807] usb-storage: rts51x_invoke_transport: --- Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491809] usb-storage: scsi cmd done, result=0x0 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491815] usb-storage: *** thread sleeping. ... Any idea what kernel configuration flag I may have enabled to cause these to be continually generated? My first guess would be something like 'kernel lock debugging'...if that's what I'm seeing here, where would I go to file a bug report against the usb-storage subsystem? -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] Alternatives to the gnome-system-monitor panel applet?
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:17 PM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote: (I considered posting this into the Linus-bashing-gnome3 thread, then I decided against it :) There are tons of stuff in gnome(any version) that I don't need, but for many years I've stuck with gnome for one, maybe silly, reason. The gnome-system-monitor applet displays graphs of processor use, memory use, network load, disk activity, and swap usage in one tiny panel applet about 5cm wide and 1cm high. The important thing to me is that the graphs display the values of all of those things over last 60 seconds or so. And the graphs are never hidden behind other windows because the panel is always visible. Over the years I've caught $LARGE_NUMBER of bugs that show up as inappropriate cpu load or excessive memory use or network traffic or hard-disk activity. Yes, that's my own fault because I choose to live on the bleeding edge :) I get pain and pleasure at the same time -- but I don't need to explain that to this group :p I'd probably be using xfce if not for that one panel applet. Any suggestions? https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/120/system-monitor/ Pretty similar to the GNOME 2 version. Or https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/9/systemmonitor/ If you want it a little large and visible when pressing the windows key. Regards. -- Canek Peláez Valdés Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
Re: [gentoo-user] Noisy dd operation
On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:27:36 -0400 Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: So, I'm using dd to write the Gentoo LiveDVD ISO directly to an SDHC card. I was wondering why the transfer rate had slowed from 20MB/s to 6MB/s, so I ran 'sudo tail -f /var/log/messages' to see if there were I/O errors slowing things down. What I found was a flood-stream of message blocks that look like this: Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458632] usb-storage: queuecommand_lck called Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458670] usb-storage: *** thread awakened. Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458685] usb-storage: Command WRITE_10 (10 bytes) Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458687] usb-storage: 2a 00 00 2b f3 80 00 00 f0 00 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458694] usb-storage: rts51x_invoke_transport: --- Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458697] usb-storage: rts51x_invoke_transport: working scsi, intf-pm_usage_cnt:1,power.usage:1 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458701] usb-storage: Bulk Command S 0x43425355 T 0x34ef L 122880 F 0 Trg 0 LUN 0 CL 10 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458704] usb-storage: usb_stor_bulk_transfer_buf: xfer 31 bytes Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458759] usb-storage: Status code 0; transferred 31/31 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458761] usb-storage: -- transfer complete Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458763] usb-storage: Bulk command transfer result=0 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458766] usb-storage: usb_stor_bulk_transfer_sglist: xfer 122880 bytes, 18 entries Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486031] usb-storage: Status code 0; transferred 122880/122880 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486035] usb-storage: -- transfer complete Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486037] usb-storage: Bulk data transfer result 0x0 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486039] usb-storage: Attempting to get CSW... Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486042] usb-storage: usb_stor_bulk_transfer_buf: xfer 13 bytes Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491787] usb-storage: Status code 0; transferred 13/13 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491790] usb-storage: -- transfer complete Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491793] usb-storage: Bulk status result = 0 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491795] usb-storage: Bulk Status S 0x53425355 T 0x34ef R 0 Stat 0x0 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491800] usb-storage: rts51x_invoke_transport: state:2 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491802] usb-storage: rts51x_modi_suspend_timer: ---, state:2 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491805] usb-storage: rts51x_modi_suspend_timer: --- Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491807] usb-storage: rts51x_invoke_transport: --- Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491809] usb-storage: scsi cmd done, result=0x0 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491815] usb-storage: *** thread sleeping. ... Any idea what kernel configuration flag I may have enabled to cause these to be continually generated? My first guess would be something like 'kernel lock debugging'...if that's what I'm seeing here, where would I go to file a bug report against the usb-storage subsystem? 6M is what you should expect from a good Class 6 SDHC card, and those are quite rare in consumer shops (few carry better than Class 4 in my experience). Writes start very fast (it's going into the kernel buffer) then gradually slow down to the card's actual speed, which is what you appear to be seeing. 20M write speed would be a Class 20, which doesn't exist yet :-) But what is your actual query? About the write speed? Or about the presence of the messages? -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment
On Jun 17, 2012 11:57 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop environments. http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised. In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another desktop. I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own. There is no best desktop environment. There are only preferences. Agree. Which is why I wrote the word Best between single quotes. The whole sentence itself comes from the original title of the article; the single quotes are mine. Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] Noisy dd operation
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:27:36 -0400 Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: So, I'm using dd to write the Gentoo LiveDVD ISO directly to an SDHC card. I was wondering why the transfer rate had slowed from 20MB/s to 6MB/s, so I ran 'sudo tail -f /var/log/messages' to see if there were I/O errors slowing things down. What I found was a flood-stream of message blocks that look like this: [snip] ... Any idea what kernel configuration flag I may have enabled to cause these to be continually generated? My first guess would be something like 'kernel lock debugging'...if that's what I'm seeing here, where would I go to file a bug report against the usb-storage subsystem? 6M is what you should expect from a good Class 6 SDHC card, and those are quite rare in consumer shops (few carry better than Class 4 in my experience). Yeah, for a given class N, N MB/s is minimum certified transfer rate. Though they probably don't take cover block reflashing in that... Writes start very fast (it's going into the kernel buffer) then gradually slow down to the card's actual speed, which is what you appear to be seeing. That kernel buffer would have been a gigabyte or two in size, and I don't remember noticing that while watching in htop. 20M write speed would be a Class 20, which doesn't exist yet :-) Well, more to the point there's no certification level for it. Devices can exceed their certification level. But what is your actual query? About the write speed? No, not really. TBH, I wasn't expecting to be able to consistently write quickly to the beginning of the card, but slowly at the end; I wanted to make sure the card wasn't going bad given the abruptness of the change. Actually, the more I think about it, I think it happened at the 2GB boundary, where some funky pin logic changes. (And where SD becomes SDHC). So I think that's where the performance shifted. Maybe I'll invest in a bunch of fast 2G cards, if it means the performance is consistent, and I'd still fit just under 200 shots. Or about the presence of the messages? Yeah, it's the messages I was curious about. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] adobe-flash and constant errors.
David Haller wrote: Hello, On Mon, 11 Jun 2012, Dale wrote: `/usr/portage/distfiles/adobe-flash-11.2.202.235.i386.tar.gz' saved 11.2.202.235 crashes all the time anyway (at least on x86_64), there's a new version 11.2.202.236 out since yesterday or so that works again. HTH, -dnh I been using *.236 for a while. I think it is a mismatch between flash and something else, maybe nvidia, Seamonkey or something like that. Right now, it seems to be working fine. I've done a few upgrades so maybe whatever was not happy got updated to a happy version. Now that it is happy, I'll join in. lol Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words! Miss the compile output? Hint: EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS=--quiet-build=n