[gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
Please don't use this list for personal quarrels of any kind! If someone says something you don't like - just ignore it/him. If someone insults you, reply by personal mail only. If someone says something which is *technically* wrong, just correct the facts without getting personal. Thanks, Helmut.
Re: [gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
Helmut Jarausch wrote: Please don't use this list for personal quarrels of any kind! If someone says something you don't like - just ignore it/him. If someone insults you, reply by personal mail only. If someone says something which is *technically* wrong, just correct the facts without getting personal. Thanks, Helmut. I don't read every message but who is personally attacking someone? Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Saturday 22 Mar 2014 00:28:04 Dale wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: Judging by replies so far, I'd guess not many at all. You can't possibly know how many will or will not plonk someone. In the meantime Dale, I think you are projecting. Chill out brother, chill out. Plenty stuff in the world more deserving of attention than this. I fixed it now. No more problems. Dale :-) :-) Some of us read all, but reply only where we think we can add value and when time allows. There is no need really on this list for verbal abuse, especially when a contributor has offered well considered advice and carefully articulated opinion. Nevertheless, I also find personally addressed emails annoying, but it can be fixed by setting up a filter on most mail clients to drop them in the corresponding M/L. This may be a more civil way than alienating people who want to join this community. I'm just saying ... -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Mick wrote: On Saturday 22 Mar 2014 00:28:04 Dale wrote: Alan McKinnon wrote: Judging by replies so far, I'd guess not many at all. You can't possibly know how many will or will not plonk someone. In the meantime Dale, I think you are projecting. Chill out brother, chill out. Plenty stuff in the world more deserving of attention than this. I fixed it now. No more problems. Dale :-) :-) Some of us read all, but reply only where we think we can add value and when time allows. There is no need really on this list for verbal abuse, especially when a contributor has offered well considered advice and carefully articulated opinion. Nevertheless, I also find personally addressed emails annoying, but it can be fixed by setting up a filter on most mail clients to drop them in the corresponding M/L. This may be a more civil way than alienating people who want to join this community. I'm just saying ... If a person sends html messages to this list, there is quite a few that will block because they can't read them. Same as with quite a few other things that is not liked on this list. Folks don't like html and don't like getting two copies of the same message. My point was and still is, if he doesn't want to conform to what this list expects, he will be blacklisted by people on this list. Period. It's nothing personal about it since I would inform anyone else of the same thing. It's really that simple. I still remember when I first joined this list. I was told the same thing about my email program sending html. If I had not conformed to the requests of people on this mailing list, I would have been blacklisted by a large group of people and was told that I would by some of the very ones that would do it. When joining a community, you conform to what is expected. You don't join and then force everyone else to conform to what you want. All Tom had to do is not CC everyone. Real simple. No harder than me telling my software to send text only message to gentoo.org. It seemed to me that Tom refused the request of quite a few people even after several asked him to change. Based on that, I blacklisted him. That is something I rarely do but hey, it is what it is. I fixed his problem for him. I suspect others have done the same. BTW, I have yet to see him add much of anything to any discussion. I've seen his posts on -dev as well. I won't now but still. ;-) Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 22/03/2014 01:46, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:34:55 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: 2. A discussion forum. For these you do munge Reply-To: to be the list so all discussion happens on-list and is visible to all gentoo-user has always been the latter and all discussion always takes place on-list. If some doc somewhere says otherwise, change the doc to reflect reality. http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml mentions it is about support too, and people that are here to be supported don't necessarily want to follow the discussion that comes along as well; thus unsubscribe before an answer or not subscribe at all in the first place, they then instead rely on receiving a mail regardless of that. CC-ing ensures that the minutes spent on the answer make it reach the person; relying on that they are (still) subscribed, I can waste time. See the most recent mail I sent before this for details. I disagree. Your default position on things seems to be to favour the theoretical position over the reality. I'm the opposite, being a sysadmin and not a developer I'm a realist and not a theoretician. I work with the way things are and really only look at the theory when stuff is proven broken. What is currently happening is you are sending mails directly addressed to me so they do not get filtered and end up cluttering my already full inbox. You are breaking my filters. I do not want to receive list mail from you addressed directly to me, I want it addressed to the list. I do want you to fix your mailer so that you stop inconveniencing me. And I would *really* prefer not to have to tweak my filters to accommodate you. I'd rather you do that heavy lifting (on account of you causing it). Do you see what I'm getting at? -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Mar 22, 2014, at 12:34, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/03/2014 01:46, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:34:55 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: 2. A discussion forum. For these you do munge Reply-To: to be the list so all discussion happens on-list and is visible to all gentoo-user has always been the latter and all discussion always takes place on-list. If some doc somewhere says otherwise, change the doc to reflect reality. http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml mentions it is about support too, and people that are here to be supported don't necessarily want to follow the discussion that comes along as well; thus unsubscribe before an answer or not subscribe at all in the first place, they then instead rely on receiving a mail regardless of that. CC-ing ensures that the minutes spent on the answer make it reach the person; relying on that they are (still) subscribed, I can waste time. See the most recent mail I sent before this for details. I disagree. Your default position on things seems to be to favour the theoretical position over the reality. I'm the opposite, being a sysadmin and not a developer I'm a realist and not a theoretician. I work with the way things are and really only look at the theory when stuff is proven broken. What is currently happening is you are sending mails directly addressed to me so they do not get filtered and end up cluttering my already full inbox. You are breaking my filters. I do not want to receive list mail from you addressed directly to me, I want it addressed to the list. I do want you to fix your mailer so that you stop inconveniencing me. And I would *really* prefer not to have to tweak my filters to accommodate you. I'd rather you do that heavy lifting (on account of you causing it). Do you see what I'm getting at? I agree. I think it is arrogant to disturb lots of people that have done nothing to deserve it. People should be let to choose them self what they wanna do with their lives. If they wish to disengage some conversation, let them. Don't send them spam. The ones who wish to participate will stay on the list and the ones seeking for an answer can browse the archives. Please respect other people. -- -Matti
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Matti Nykyri wrote: On Mar 22, 2014, at 12:34, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/03/2014 01:46, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:34:55 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: 2. A discussion forum. For these you do munge Reply-To: to be the list so all discussion happens on-list and is visible to all gentoo-user has always been the latter and all discussion always takes place on-list. If some doc somewhere says otherwise, change the doc to reflect reality. http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml mentions it is about support too, and people that are here to be supported don't necessarily want to follow the discussion that comes along as well; thus unsubscribe before an answer or not subscribe at all in the first place, they then instead rely on receiving a mail regardless of that. CC-ing ensures that the minutes spent on the answer make it reach the person; relying on that they are (still) subscribed, I can waste time. See the most recent mail I sent before this for details. I disagree. Your default position on things seems to be to favour the theoretical position over the reality. I'm the opposite, being a sysadmin and not a developer I'm a realist and not a theoretician. I work with the way things are and really only look at the theory when stuff is proven broken. What is currently happening is you are sending mails directly addressed to me so they do not get filtered and end up cluttering my already full inbox. You are breaking my filters. I do not want to receive list mail from you addressed directly to me, I want it addressed to the list. I do want you to fix your mailer so that you stop inconveniencing me. And I would *really* prefer not to have to tweak my filters to accommodate you. I'd rather you do that heavy lifting (on account of you causing it). Do you see what I'm getting at? I agree. I think it is arrogant to disturb lots of people that have done nothing to deserve it. People should be let to choose them self what they wanna do with their lives. If they wish to disengage some conversation, let them. Don't send them spam. The ones who wish to participate will stay on the list and the ones seeking for an answer can browse the archives. Please respect other people. +1 to both Matti and Alan. If he decides to change this and does, let me know. I'll consider removing the blacklist. There is no need making no telling how many people change their settings just because one person refuses too. To the point about folks unsubscribing, if they do unsubscribe from the list, it may be because they got what they want and do NOT want any more messages. I don't recall EVER sending a email to someone offlist unless I was asked to or had to send some large attachement that the other person wanted and I didn't want to send to the list. If I unsubscribed from this list, I would expect emails regarding this list to stop. At least I know now why folks told me what they did when I first joined. I'm just glad I wasn't so thick headed to not listen. I adjusted my settings and been here ever since. insert thumbs up here Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:34:53 +0200 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: I disagree. Can we agree to disagree? Your default position on things seems to be to favour the theoretical position over the reality. I'm the opposite, being a sysadmin and not a developer I'm a realist and not a theoretician. I work with the way things are and really only look at the theory when stuff is proven broken. That I want my time to be spent useful is reality, not just theory; until you can show me the invisible subscription state as well as the Reply-To mungling are features, I keep my mailer fixed to unbreak that. What is currently happening is you are sending mails directly addressed to me so they do not get filtered and end up cluttering my already full inbox. That is because you address me about this matter; if you weren't, I wouldn't have sent you a single mail. Or perhaps one in a hundred days; I consider the meta discussion brought up here to be more cluttering than that uncertain single mail. You are breaking my filters. Why do you filters allow list messages in your inbox? I do want you to fix your mailer so that you stop inconveniencing me. And I would *really* prefer not to have to tweak my filters to accommodate you. I'd rather you do that heavy lifting (on account of you causing it). That list messages land in your inbox is caused by your filter and mail client; as you can see per the example procmail rule, as well as my mail client, neither of both do that here. Do you see what I'm getting at? No; I don't see why I should stop following the mailing list etiquette, start relying on possibly wasting time as well as break what is fixed. But yes; for convenience, I've dropped you from CC. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Portable Gentoo (Pen Drive Linux)
On 3/21/2014 9:53 PM, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: Hi, Since I don't have a laptop, I'm thinking of installing Gentoo on my USB 3 pen drive. I'll use binpkgs from my desktop so that pen drive lives long. Has anybody tried Samsung's F2FS? I heard it performs better than the traditional ext4/xfs/etc on flash drives. Also the pen drive will be used on random hardware (which can be a laptop or a desktop), so what else do I need to consider other than using genkernel's default configuration (the livecd config, which enables all modules)? FWIW, I've been F2FS plus encryption with Arch and haven't had any problems. I'd suggest having anything important backed up somewhere else since it's still seen as experimental (I think). If you're using it on random hardware and want X, you'll have to include the variety of video cards you might run into (Intel, ATI, Nvidia) in your USE flags. Also, be wary of the predictable naming for network interfaces (enp5s0, enp9s2,etc). You might want to disable that feature using something like net.ifnames=0 in your bootloader or a udev rule so you can just set eth0 to DHCP and it will work on most machines.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:57:40 +0200 Matti Nykyri matti.nyk...@iki.fi wrote: I agree. I think it is arrogant to disturb lots of people that have done nothing to deserve it. People should be let to choose them self what they wanna do with their lives. If they wish to disengage some conversation, let them. Don't send them spam. spam is send to a large number of recipients; I don't see how what is discussing here is doing that, apart from extending this discussion. It's not arrogant; it's a technical difference, which sets up different approaches. That's why developers are requested to follow the etiquette. The ones who wish to participate will stay on the list and the ones seeking for an answer can browse the archives. People that participate maybe are on the list and the ones seeking for an answer might browse the archives. Please respect other people. Here's something that works for the both of us: Request someone to not CC you in a follow-up mail when you catch them do it, they'll respect that; that's a guarantee that we can be certain that you are subscribed. That way; you respect that I want to spent my time to be guaranteed to be useful, I respect that you don't want to be CC-ed in follow-up mails. Similarly; if someone is off-list; it takes a single mail to keep me from sending additional mails. As it clarifies a disengagement; that unsubscribing is meant to be a disengagement, I can't find that rule... -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 06:08:35 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: To the point about folks unsubscribing, if they do unsubscribe from the list, it may be because they got what they want and do NOT want any more messages. Or it may be because they are tired of the flow of mails, but yet they are still awaiting a reply; the only respectful guarantee that works for the both of us is if the user states a solution was found and/or addresses me to send no further emails, that gives guarantees. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:15:49 +0100, Tom Wijsman wrote: Here's something that works for the both of us: Request someone to not CC you in a follow-up mail when you catch them do it, they'll respect that; that's a guarantee that we can be certain that you are subscribed. I tried that, you cc'd your response to me... You are using Claws-Mail, it is easy to set up per-folder configurations. I hit Reply, th reply goes to the list, I have to take the specific step of using Reply to All to send you to copies of the email. -- Neil Bothwick The road to HAL is paved with good intentions. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Portable Gentoo (Pen Drive Linux)
On 22-Mar-2014 5:42 pm, Brian Hesdorfer zerop...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/21/2014 9:53 PM, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: Hi, Since I don't have a laptop, I'm thinking of installing Gentoo on my USB 3 pen drive. I'll use binpkgs from my desktop so that pen drive lives long. Has anybody tried Samsung's F2FS? I heard it performs better than the traditional ext4/xfs/etc on flash drives. Also the pen drive will be used on random hardware (which can be a laptop or a desktop), so what else do I need to consider other than using genkernel's default configuration (the livecd config, which enables all modules)? FWIW, I've been F2FS plus encryption with Arch and haven't had any problems. I'd suggest having anything important backed up somewhere else since it's still seen as experimental (I think). Of course. Pen drives are as such not very reliable, so backups are a must. If you're using it on random hardware and want X, you'll have to include the variety of video cards you might run into (Intel, ATI, Nvidia) in your USE flags. Will it work out the box without configuration? Also, be wary of the predictable naming for network interfaces (enp5s0, enp9s2,etc). You might want to disable that feature using something like net.ifnames=0 in your bootloader or a udev rule so you can just set eth0 to DHCP and it will work on most machines. NetworkManager helps with that, or may be just run dhcpcd.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 03/20/2014 06:42 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:19:43 + thegeezer thegee...@thegeezer.net wrote: the difficulty is that without knowing It is as easy as following the commits upstream makes, which is a short daily visit (or for less important followers, even weekly); that's really not too much asked for if you forked logind. It is even quite common practice and scriptable: git fetch ... ; git log ... ; git diff ... In a similar way, I know Portage will get highlighting and a ^ indicator; without that being announced until release, here's a copy paste (note that what is above ^ would be colored in red, unwrapped to unbreak it): dev-lang/perl:0 (dev-lang/perl-5.18.2:0/5.18::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by =dev-lang/perl-5.18* required by (virtual/perl-IO-1.280.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) ^ ^ (dev-lang/perl-5.16.3:0/5.16::gentoo, installed) pulled in by dev-lang/perl:0/5.16=[-build(-)] required by (dev-perl/IO-Socket-SSL-1.967.0:0/0::gentoo, installed) =dev-lang/perl-5.16* required by (virtual/perl-libnet-1.230.0:0/0::gentoo, installed) ^ ^ (and 19 more with the same problems) And of course, that's not the only change happening; dependency resolution will become faster, some slot operator bug fixes happened but caused regressions in released versions and thus more of such fixes will be done, some no parents messages during slot conflict output were nuked, ... If I can type that as part of this mail, people could follow logind. On 03/20/2014 06:42 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:19:43 + thegeezer thegee...@thegeezer.net wrote: the difficulty is that without knowing It is as easy as following the commits upstream makes, which is a short daily visit (or for less important followers, even weekly); that's really not too much asked for if you forked logind. It is even quite common practice and scriptable: git fetch ... ; git log ... ; git diff ... there's a slight misunderstanding here. in a previous link on this list there was gnome developer that basically said something like we can't document everything that gnome uses in systemd/logind because the developers are ahead of us, so in case of difference the source code is correct. gnome is big. really big. so you'd have to diff logind to check for new features and then diff gnome to find how gnome is using those features. so my point over 5 weeks ago was not about the difficulty in _finding_ the changes, but about keeping track of those changes and implementing htem. if you read the rest of the thread you will see that in a whole i was arguing that it is disingenuous to suggest that gnome does not require logind. if you don't see that perhaps you could volunteer to add logind api features to openRC ? btw, why did you reply to me cc the list instead of replying to list ? i'm on the list already and so because of that my reply-to-list is broken. it's easy enough to copy and paste the email address but please don't do that again.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 03/22/2014 12:15 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: That way; you respect that I want to spent my time to be guaranteed to be useful, I respect that you don't want to be CC-ed in follow-up mails. Similarly; if someone is off-list; it takes a single mail to keep me from sending additional mails. As it clarifies a disengagement; that unsubscribing is meant to be a disengagement, I can't find that rule... equally we all want our time spent to be guaranteed useful. i've just gone through 40+ messages twice. please stop CC'ing - just send it to the list. if someone unsubscribes from the list and thus doesn't see their answer there are other ways they can find it. it is their issue if they do not see the answer, it is easy enough to send an email to the list saying so long thanks for the fish, btw please send answers to x...@y.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Portable Gentoo (Pen Drive Linux)
On 22/03/2014 15:00, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 22-Mar-2014 5:42 pm, Brian Hesdorfer zerop...@gmail.com mailto:zerop...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/21/2014 9:53 PM, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: Hi, Since I don't have a laptop, I'm thinking of installing Gentoo on my USB 3 pen drive. I'll use binpkgs from my desktop so that pen drive lives long. Has anybody tried Samsung's F2FS? I heard it performs better than the traditional ext4/xfs/etc on flash drives. Also the pen drive will be used on random hardware (which can be a laptop or a desktop), so what else do I need to consider other than using genkernel's default configuration (the livecd config, which enables all modules)? FWIW, I've been F2FS plus encryption with Arch and haven't had any problems. I'd suggest having anything important backed up somewhere else since it's still seen as experimental (I think). Of course. Pen drives are as such not very reliable, so backups are a must. If you're using it on random hardware and want X, you'll have to include the variety of video cards you might run into (Intel, ATI, Nvidia) in your USE flags. Will it work out the box without configuration? Also, be wary of the predictable naming for network interfaces (enp5s0, enp9s2,etc). You might want to disable that feature using something like net.ifnames=0 in your bootloader or a udev rule so you can just set eth0 to DHCP and it will work on most machines. NetworkManager helps with that, or may be just run dhcpcd. I suspect you will end up duplicating a lot of work that is already done elsewhere by the binary distros. You'll probably also have your hands full just trying to keep up with video hardware as you'll need at least intel, fglrx and nvidia drivers (plus maybe nouveau and radeon). Are you 100% sure you want to go that route? Sounds like a huge amount of work. In your position, I would rather investigate a LiveCD type solution with a persistent fs layer on top and let the distro do all the heavy lifting. Especially as you don't have the target hardware to hand for testing, you can only test by plugging the stick and seeing if it works. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 03/22/2014 01:00 PM, thegeezer wrote: On 03/20/2014 06:42 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:19:43 + thegeezer thegee...@thegeezer.net wrote: the difficulty is that without knowing It is as easy as following the commits upstream makes, which is a short daily visit (or for less important followers, even weekly); that's really not too much asked for if you forked logind. It is even quite common practice and scriptable: git fetch ... ; git log ... ; git diff ... In a similar way, I know Portage will get highlighting and a ^ indicator; without that being announced until release, here's a copy paste (note that what is above ^ would be colored in red, unwrapped to unbreak it): dev-lang/perl:0 (dev-lang/perl-5.18.2:0/5.18::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by =dev-lang/perl-5.18* required by (virtual/perl-IO-1.280.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) ^ ^ (dev-lang/perl-5.16.3:0/5.16::gentoo, installed) pulled in by dev-lang/perl:0/5.16=[-build(-)] required by (dev-perl/IO-Socket-SSL-1.967.0:0/0::gentoo, installed) =dev-lang/perl-5.16* required by (virtual/perl-libnet-1.230.0:0/0::gentoo, installed) ^ ^ (and 19 more with the same problems) And of course, that's not the only change happening; dependency resolution will become faster, some slot operator bug fixes happened but caused regressions in released versions and thus more of such fixes will be done, some no parents messages during slot conflict output were nuked, ... If I can type that as part of this mail, people could follow logind. On 03/20/2014 06:42 PM, Tom Wijsman wrote: On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 10:19:43 + thegeezer thegee...@thegeezer.net wrote: the difficulty is that without knowing It is as easy as following the commits upstream makes, which is a short daily visit (or for less important followers, even weekly); that's really not too much asked for if you forked logind. It is even quite common practice and scriptable: git fetch ... ; git log ... ; git diff ... there's a slight misunderstanding here. in a previous link on this list there was gnome developer that basically said something like we can't document everything that gnome uses in systemd/logind because the developers are ahead of us, so in case of difference the source code is correct. gnome is big. really big. so you'd have to diff logind to check for new features and then diff gnome to find how gnome is using those features. so my point over 5 weeks ago was not about the difficulty in _finding_ the changes, but about keeping track of those changes and implementing htem. if you read the rest of the thread you will see that in a whole i was arguing that it is disingenuous to suggest that gnome does not require logind. if you don't see that perhaps you could volunteer to add logind api features to openRC ? btw, why did you reply to me cc the list instead of replying to list ? i'm on the list already and so because of that my reply-to-list is broken. it's easy enough to copy and paste the email address but please don't do that again. sorry for the double length and content email. an accident with the copy and paste.
Re: [gentoo-user] Portable Gentoo (Pen Drive Linux)
On 22-Mar-2014 6:39 pm, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/03/2014 15:00, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 22-Mar-2014 5:42 pm, Brian Hesdorfer zerop...@gmail.com mailto:zerop...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/21/2014 9:53 PM, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: Hi, Since I don't have a laptop, I'm thinking of installing Gentoo on my USB 3 pen drive. I'll use binpkgs from my desktop so that pen drive lives long. Has anybody tried Samsung's F2FS? I heard it performs better than the traditional ext4/xfs/etc on flash drives. Also the pen drive will be used on random hardware (which can be a laptop or a desktop), so what else do I need to consider other than using genkernel's default configuration (the livecd config, which enables all modules)? FWIW, I've been F2FS plus encryption with Arch and haven't had any problems. I'd suggest having anything important backed up somewhere else since it's still seen as experimental (I think). Of course. Pen drives are as such not very reliable, so backups are a must. If you're using it on random hardware and want X, you'll have to include the variety of video cards you might run into (Intel, ATI, Nvidia) in your USE flags. Will it work out the box without configuration? Also, be wary of the predictable naming for network interfaces (enp5s0, enp9s2,etc). You might want to disable that feature using something like net.ifnames=0 in your bootloader or a udev rule so you can just set eth0 to DHCP and it will work on most machines. NetworkManager helps with that, or may be just run dhcpcd. I suspect you will end up duplicating a lot of work that is already done elsewhere by the binary distros. You'll probably also have your hands full just trying to keep up with video hardware as you'll need at least intel, fglrx and nvidia drivers (plus maybe nouveau and radeon). Are you 100% sure you want to go that route? Sounds like a huge amount of work. In your position, I would rather investigate a LiveCD type solution with a persistent fs layer on top and let the distro do all the heavy lifting. Especially as you don't have the target hardware to hand for testing, you can only test by plugging the stick and seeing if it works. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com I realize those problems, and that's why I've stayed away till now. I'm running Fedora currently on the pen drive. But the unmatched flexibility of gentoo is tempting me. For example, 3.13.5,6 have problems with USB 3 storage. I've patched the kernel on my desktop and it's working fine. Such things are against mainstream distros. What other distros are suited for this use case?
Re: [gentoo-user] Portable Gentoo (Pen Drive Linux)
On 22/03/2014 15:12, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 22-Mar-2014 6:39 pm, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com mailto:alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/03/2014 15:00, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 22-Mar-2014 5:42 pm, Brian Hesdorfer zerop...@gmail.com mailto:zerop...@gmail.com mailto:zerop...@gmail.com mailto:zerop...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/21/2014 9:53 PM, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: Hi, Since I don't have a laptop, I'm thinking of installing Gentoo on my USB 3 pen drive. I'll use binpkgs from my desktop so that pen drive lives long. Has anybody tried Samsung's F2FS? I heard it performs better than the traditional ext4/xfs/etc on flash drives. Also the pen drive will be used on random hardware (which can be a laptop or a desktop), so what else do I need to consider other than using genkernel's default configuration (the livecd config, which enables all modules)? FWIW, I've been F2FS plus encryption with Arch and haven't had any problems. I'd suggest having anything important backed up somewhere else since it's still seen as experimental (I think). Of course. Pen drives are as such not very reliable, so backups are a must. If you're using it on random hardware and want X, you'll have to include the variety of video cards you might run into (Intel, ATI, Nvidia) in your USE flags. Will it work out the box without configuration? Also, be wary of the predictable naming for network interfaces (enp5s0, enp9s2,etc). You might want to disable that feature using something like net.ifnames=0 in your bootloader or a udev rule so you can just set eth0 to DHCP and it will work on most machines. NetworkManager helps with that, or may be just run dhcpcd. I suspect you will end up duplicating a lot of work that is already done elsewhere by the binary distros. You'll probably also have your hands full just trying to keep up with video hardware as you'll need at least intel, fglrx and nvidia drivers (plus maybe nouveau and radeon). Are you 100% sure you want to go that route? Sounds like a huge amount of work. In your position, I would rather investigate a LiveCD type solution with a persistent fs layer on top and let the distro do all the heavy lifting. Especially as you don't have the target hardware to hand for testing, you can only test by plugging the stick and seeing if it works. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com mailto:alan.mckin...@gmail.com I realize those problems, and that's why I've stayed away till now. I'm running Fedora currently on the pen drive. But the unmatched flexibility of gentoo is tempting me. For example, 3.13.5,6 have problems with USB 3 storage. I've patched the kernel on my desktop and it's working fine. Such things are against mainstream distros. What other distros are suited for this use case? I don't really know, but that's because I too use Gentoo almost exclusively, nothing else satisfies my OCD need to tweak everything exactly right :-) Pen drives tend to be slow so I think a great hulking monster like Fedora won't suit the use-case. You'd need something smaller and lighter, designed for lower end systems I think. Perhaps check out DistroWatch and try out a few? IIRC they have search and filters that can help pick out the more lean distros -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Portable Gentoo (Pen Drive Linux)
On 22-Mar-2014 6:56 pm, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/03/2014 15:12, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 22-Mar-2014 6:39 pm, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com mailto:alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 22/03/2014 15:00, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: On 22-Mar-2014 5:42 pm, Brian Hesdorfer zerop...@gmail.com mailto:zerop...@gmail.com mailto:zerop...@gmail.com mailto:zerop...@gmail.com wrote: On 3/21/2014 9:53 PM, Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: Hi, Since I don't have a laptop, I'm thinking of installing Gentoo on my USB 3 pen drive. I'll use binpkgs from my desktop so that pen drive lives long. Has anybody tried Samsung's F2FS? I heard it performs better than the traditional ext4/xfs/etc on flash drives. Also the pen drive will be used on random hardware (which can be a laptop or a desktop), so what else do I need to consider other than using genkernel's default configuration (the livecd config, which enables all modules)? FWIW, I've been F2FS plus encryption with Arch and haven't had any problems. I'd suggest having anything important backed up somewhere else since it's still seen as experimental (I think). Of course. Pen drives are as such not very reliable, so backups are a must. If you're using it on random hardware and want X, you'll have to include the variety of video cards you might run into (Intel, ATI, Nvidia) in your USE flags. Will it work out the box without configuration? Also, be wary of the predictable naming for network interfaces (enp5s0, enp9s2,etc). You might want to disable that feature using something like net.ifnames=0 in your bootloader or a udev rule so you can just set eth0 to DHCP and it will work on most machines. NetworkManager helps with that, or may be just run dhcpcd. I suspect you will end up duplicating a lot of work that is already done elsewhere by the binary distros. You'll probably also have your hands full just trying to keep up with video hardware as you'll need at least intel, fglrx and nvidia drivers (plus maybe nouveau and radeon). Are you 100% sure you want to go that route? Sounds like a huge amount of work. In your position, I would rather investigate a LiveCD type solution with a persistent fs layer on top and let the distro do all the heavy lifting. Especially as you don't have the target hardware to hand for testing, you can only test by plugging the stick and seeing if it works. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com mailto:alan.mckin...@gmail.com I realize those problems, and that's why I've stayed away till now. I'm running Fedora currently on the pen drive. But the unmatched flexibility of gentoo is tempting me. For example, 3.13.5,6 have problems with USB 3 storage. I've patched the kernel on my desktop and it's working fine. Such things are against mainstream distros. What other distros are suited for this use case? I don't really know, but that's because I too use Gentoo almost exclusively, nothing else satisfies my OCD need to tweak everything exactly right :-) Pen drives tend to be slow so I think a great hulking monster like Fedora won't suit the use-case. You'd need something smaller and lighter, designed for lower end systems I think. Perhaps check out DistroWatch and try out a few? IIRC they have search and filters that can help pick out the more lean distros -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com It works actually. Using gnome3. I've even used it to run eclipse for working on my project at college and friend's laptop. May be debian would be good, need something stable. Gentoo is stable because it's manually tweaked, but too much work to manage that for random hardware.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On 3/21/2014 5:57 PM, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: How does one send email to*THIS* list, without being subscribed in the first place? A bugzilla mailing list is a different matter. I think that is the main and primary point. I loathe lists that allow posts from non subscribers (spitlibreoffice users/spit), because it creates this exact problem. But in those cases, it should be on those who wish to leech (ask questions/get help from the list without having to subscribe) to proactively get their answers, by reading the archives on the web, etc. The burden absolutely should NEVER be on the list participants to try to figure out who needs to be individually CC'd on replies and who doesn't. Of course, if someone asks a question on such a list, and they specifically mention they are not subscribed and ask to be directly CC'd, then that is the one case when doing so is ok. But to blindly do this to everyone on the list just to insure that your oh-so-valuable reply makes it to the OP is just the height of arrogance and conceit.
Re: [gentoo-user] Portable Gentoo (Pen Drive Linux)
On Saturday 22 Mar 2014 18:42:46 Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: ---8 What other distros are suited for this use case? I've installed that old favourite SysRescCD on a pen drive, following a method I found on the Web to include a persistent file-system with all the extras I wanted in, e.g., /usr/local/bin. It works well, except that I haven't found yet where to put all my aliases to have them sourced at (auto) log-in. This distro is quite close to Gentoo, but not identical. -- Regards Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:00:59 + thegeezer thegee...@thegeezer.net wrote: [...] so my point over 5 weeks ago was not about the difficulty in _finding_ the changes, Ah, thanks; I see. but about keeping track of those changes and implementing htem. Here, I would agree with if you have a lot of other things to do; I don't see this as a problem though for someone whom puts time apart to do such a fork, keeping track is as easy as following two git logs. Granted, understanding and implementing the changes is another story, in which I again agree with you; I just wanted to point out they're not hidden, they're just not announced, but it appears we agree on that. if you read the rest of the thread you will see that in a whole i was arguing that it is disingenuous to suggest that gnome does not require logind. There is indeed an URL brought up early on, with which I agree with: https://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2013/09/25/gnome-and-logindsystemd-thoughts/ There's also a more recent post that I think hasn't been brought up: https://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2014/02/03/my-thoughts-on-the-default-init-system-for-debian-discussion if you don't see that perhaps you could volunteer to add logind api features to openRC ? Well, I wish I could accomplish all these things; but I have other work that I'm committing myself to, I've been thinking about a proof of concept to point out it is possible but I haven't had the time to do it. My past commits were spent on bringing MATE to the Portage tree; if I would work on a logind implementation, there wouldn't be MATE. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
On 3/22/2014 5:06 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Helmut Jarausch wrote: Please don't use this list for personal quarrels of any kind! If someone says something you don't like - just ignore it/him. If someone insults you, reply by personal mail only. If someone says something which is*technically* wrong, just correct the facts without getting personal. I don't read every message but who is personally attacking someone? He's probably referring to my factual statement that Tom was/is acting like an arrogant prick. Lots of people confuse factual statements with personal attacks. That said, I've never been know for being tactful... ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:56:17 + Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:15:49 +0100, Tom Wijsman wrote: Here's something that works for the both of us: Request someone to not CC you in a follow-up mail when you catch them do it, they'll respect that; that's a guarantee that we can be certain that you are subscribed. I tried that, you cc'd your response to me... Well, it is new; this response has no CC. You are using Claws-Mail, it is easy to set up per-folder configurations. I hit Reply, th reply goes to the list, I have to take the specific step of using Reply to All to send you to copies of the email. How to set this up per folder? -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 09:35:50 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/21/2014 5:57 PM, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: How does one send email to*THIS* list, without being subscribed in the first place? A bugzilla mailing list is a different matter. I think that is the main and primary point. I loathe lists that allow posts from non subscribers (spitlibreoffice users/spit), because it creates this exact problem. We could fix *THIS* list to not allow that to exist; given that change, I'm fine with dropping CC on every mail on *THIS* list. Furthermore, I've asked in another mail how to set this per folder in my mail client; which should allow me to conform to the wishes of a list. But in those cases, it should be on those who wish to leech (ask questions/get help from the list without having to subscribe) to proactively get their answers, by reading the archives on the web, etc. People participate in more than just this list; at that point, there's a lot to check up with. It creates an information overflow; or rather, too much to check up on. This is why notifications were invented on various new and modern websites; though, given that mailing list archives date from a while ago, such notifications are not yet present on such services. Up to a point that the user is unaware of that; even when using the web form where they had to fill in their mail, 'cause why did they have to fill in their mail there anyway? The burden absolutely should NEVER be on the list participants to try to figure out who needs to be individually CC'd on replies and who doesn't. But given the technical difficulties, there is such a burden on us; that's why it is part of the mailing list etiquette that I follow and are requested to follow by other Gentoo developers. Of course, if someone asks a question on such a list, and they specifically mention they are not subscribed and ask to be directly CC'd, then that is the one case when doing so is ok. If they are aware; but see my response to leeching, are they aware? But to blindly do this to everyone on the list just to insure that your oh-so-valuable reply makes it to the OP is just the height of arrogance and conceit. This isn't done blindly; I check up the rules and FAQ prior to do doing it, as well as listen to participants that warn me early. In this case, for the Gentoo mailing lists, the mailing list etiquette was brought to my attention and therefore I have been CC-ing for hundreds of e-mails without any remarks (and most people just repsond), to be surprised that a whole discussion about it is started here. It isn't arrogance or conceit; rather, it is being consistent and following etiquette. You should note that the early part of this discussion is based on one or two individuals that appear as inconsistent; however, given there are more people that voice this now, _I am concerned_ to change it specifically for those who request it and we could solve the technical difficulty by reducing the problem by requesting off-list replies to be disallowed and/or adapting the mail to new subscribers to mention that if they want to be CC-ed that they should explicitly mention that. Yes, I am inconsistent with *THIS* mailing list; let's change things to make such inconsistency unnecessary, to fix this forever and always. Otherwise we'll continue to get responses like these http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/273297 while we could just make those do not ... no longer necessary. Sorry for the hassle and thanks for the understanding. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
el 2014-03-22 a las 15:50 Tom Wijsman escribió: How to set this up per folder? rigth-click on the folder, Properties... - Compose - default to:
Re: [gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 10:48:46 -0400 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 3/22/2014 5:06 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Helmut Jarausch wrote: Please don't use this list for personal quarrels of any kind! If someone says something you don't like - just ignore it/him. If someone insults you, reply by personal mail only. If someone says something which is*technically* wrong, just correct the facts without getting personal. I don't read every message but who is personally attacking someone? He's probably referring to my factual statement that Tom was/is acting like an arrogant prick. This is technically wrong, we're all acting as arrogant pricks; but by picking out a certain individual, this could be perceived as a personal attack to that certain individual. However, that should not withhold that this is just part of a factual statement. This correction of mine also doesn't hold because if this could be perceived as a personal attack against us all; then, to an extent, perhaps we're all not acting as arrogant pricks. We are just mis-perceiving things; and as a result of that, misunderstanding. But maybe, under the 'profit motive', we could all be being arrogant? http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/272557/focus=272818 Sometimes, such 'profit motive's conflict, one man's profit is another man's cost; this reminds me of how the real world works, if one musician gets more fortune and fame, that goes at the cost of another. However, is that musician therefore arrogant for earning lots of money? Not necessarily; as you can see, a lot of these musicians spend excess money on good causes (education centers, countries that had a natural disaster, people with a costly to cure disease, the homeless, ...). Now, you could ask, why doesn't that maybe arrogant musician send everyone some money; well, it could cause maybe arrogant people to benefit from the money without working for it. Well, both can be perceived as being arrogant, or not being arrogant at all... People's time and money is limited; so, it is better well spent. This reminds me of John Covico's e-mail footer; it goes like this: Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? Lots of people confuse factual statements with personal attacks. As demonstrated above, the confusion is easily made. That said, I've never been know for being tactful... ;) But what have you been known for? :) -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:28:25 -0300 luis jure l...@internet.com.uy wrote: el 2014-03-22 a las 15:50 Tom Wijsman escribió: How to set this up per folder? rigth-click on the folder, Properties... - Compose - default to: Thank you very much +1; I see some other features there too that can be handy, eg. subject RegExp simplification. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
[gentoo-user] kde-misc/synaptiks crashes immediately
Hi there, since the last world upgrade last week synaptiks no longer works on my laptop. x11-drivers/xf86-input-synaptics-1.7.1 kde-misc/synaptiks-0.8.1-r2 kde-base/kde-meta-4.11.5 dev-lang/python-2.7.5-r3 dev-lang/python-3.3.3 Symptom: Start synaptiks configuration module, get immedeately DrKonqi crash report (trace attached, likely not much useful since I disabled debug flags) Start either from kde systemsettings or konsole; the latter gives alex@prometheus /datadisk/home/alex $ synaptiks Fontconfig warning: /etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf, line 14: reading configurations from ~/.fonts.conf is deprecated. KCrash: Application 'synaptiks' crashing... KCrash: Attempting to start /usr/lib64/kde4/libexec/drkonqi from kdeinit sock_file=/homedisk/alex/.kde4/socket-prometheus/kdeinit4__0 unnamed app(17763): Communication problem with synaptiks , it probably crashed. Error message was: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply : Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus) Any ideas what could go wrong? Thanks, Alex Application: synaptiks (synaptiks), signal: Segmentation fault Using host libthread_db library /lib64/libthread_db.so.1. [KCrash Handler] #5 0x7fca426060fb in ?? () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtCore.so.4 #6 0x7fca4260bb53 in QObject::connect(QObject const*, char const*, QObject const*, char const*, Qt::ConnectionType) () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtCore.so.4 #7 0x7fca3a8c3f44 in KActionCollection::addAction(QString const, QAction*) () from /usr/lib64/libkdeui.so.5 #8 0x7fca3b208855 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/PyKDE4/kdeui.so #9 0x7fca46533dae in PyEval_EvalFrameEx () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #10 0x7fca46535535 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #11 0x7fca46533af1 in PyEval_EvalFrameEx () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #12 0x7fca46535535 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #13 0x7fca464c107c in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #14 0x7fca4649b363 in PyObject_Call () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #15 0x7fca464aa11f in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #16 0x7fca4649b363 in PyObject_Call () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #17 0x7fca464f1aa6 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #18 0x7fca464f1708 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #19 0x7fca4649b363 in PyObject_Call () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #20 0x7fca4653282a in PyEval_EvalFrameEx () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #21 0x7fca46535535 in PyEval_EvalCodeEx () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #22 0x7fca464c107c in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #23 0x7fca4649b363 in PyObject_Call () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #24 0x7fca464aa11f in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #25 0x7fca4649b363 in PyObject_Call () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #26 0x7fca4652e517 in PyEval_CallObjectWithKeywords () from /usr/lib64/libpython2.7.so.1.0 #27 0x7fca401fee82 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sip.so #28 0x7fca3fdfbfdd in ?? () from /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/PyQt4/QtCore.so #29 0x7fca3b060aa6 in sipKUniqueApplication::newInstance() () from /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/PyKDE4/kdeui.so #30 0x7fca3a9d4712 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libkdeui.so.5 #31 0x7fca3a9d4788 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libkdeui.so.5 #32 0x7fca3a9d48c9 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libkdeui.so.5 #33 0x7fca41edda41 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtDBus.so.4 #34 0x7fca41ede47f in ?? () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtDBus.so.4 #35 0x7fca41edee03 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtDBus.so.4 #36 0x7fca41edeefb in ?? () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtDBus.so.4 #37 0x7fca4260fd6e in QObject::event(QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtCore.so.4 #38 0x7fca3e545864 in QApplication::event(QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtGui.so.4 #39 0x7fca3b06b3a3 in sipKUniqueApplication::event(QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/PyKDE4/kdeui.so #40 0x7fca3e53bccc in QApplicationPrivate::notify_helper(QObject*, QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtGui.so.4 #41 0x7fca3e53fa91 in QApplication::notify(QObject*, QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtGui.so.4 #42 0x7fca3a9d12c6 in KApplication::notify(QObject*, QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/libkdeui.so.5 #43 0x7fca3b06b44e in sipKUniqueApplication::notify(QObject*, QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/PyKDE4/kdeui.so #44 0x7fca425f2a6e in QCoreApplication::notifyInternal(QObject*, QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtCore.so.4 #45 0x7fca425f5e11 in QCoreApplicationPrivate::sendPostedEvents(QObject*, int, QThreadData*) () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtCore.so.4 #46 0x7fca42626c23 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/qt4/libQtCore.so.4 #47 0x7fca408f43f5 in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0 #48 0x7fca408f4748 in ?? () from
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 16:38:54 +0100 Tom Wijsman tom...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:28:25 -0300 luis jure l...@internet.com.uy wrote: el 2014-03-22 a las 15:50 Tom Wijsman escribió: How to set this up per folder? rigth-click on the folder, Properties... - Compose - default to: Thank you very much +1; I see some other features there too that can be handy, eg. subject RegExp simplification. Okay, the CCs have been removed; to anyone else wondering how to do, you can tick the box of the field (here: CC) you want to drop and then leave the textbox empty, that way clicking on All will not CC people. Now I really hope the amount of people not aware of replies is small... -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
On 22/03/14 14:48, Tanstaafl wrote: On 3/22/2014 5:06 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Helmut Jarausch wrote: Please don't use this list for personal quarrels of any kind! If someone says something you don't like - just ignore it/him. If someone insults you, reply by personal mail only. If someone says something which is*technically* wrong, just correct the facts without getting personal. I don't read every message but who is personally attacking someone? He's probably referring to my factual statement that Tom was/is acting like an arrogant prick. Lots of people confuse factual statements with personal attacks. That said, I've never been know for being tactful... ;) Go and solve this shit off-list. I'm not following the systemd thread but over the last few days but your (plural) quarrels have become far too big in number to ignore. Create a separate thread if you need it so that people can ignore it without missing actual on-topic messages. -- Mateusz K.
Re: [gentoo-user] kde-misc/synaptiks crashes immediately
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 16:47:23 +0100 Alexander Puchmayr alexander.puchm...@linznet.at wrote: Symptom: Start synaptiks configuration module, get immedeately DrKonqi crash report (trace attached, likely not much useful since I disabled debug flags) Start either from kde systemsettings or konsole; the latter gives alex@prometheus /datadisk/home/alex $ synaptiks Fontconfig warning: /etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf, line 14: reading configurations from ~/.fonts.conf is deprecated. KCrash: Application 'synaptiks' crashing... KCrash: Attempting to start /usr/lib64/kde4/libexec/drkonqi from kdeinit sock_file=/homedisk/alex/.kde4/socket-prometheus/kdeinit4__0 unnamed app(17763): Communication problem with synaptiks , it probably crashed. Error message was: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply : Message did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus) Any ideas what could go wrong? The crash would reveal what is wrong; therefore, I suggest you to recompile the libraries of those packages with debug flags. See http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Quality_Assurance/Backtraces Besides that, you might be able to use strace and/or ltrace (with -f parameter; if needed, increase the -s parameter) to see what happens under the hood. I'm suspecting you'll find the cause by inspecting both; because as the trace mixes in evaluation of a Python script, you might need to use strace and/or ltrace to discover which Python script this is. A next step could be to use a debugger on that Python script if the trace, strace and/or ltrace are insufficient to reveal the cause. When you have found the cause, can you file the details in a bug at https://bugs.gentoo.org such that the maintainers are aware of this? Thank you very much in advance. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Tanstaafl wrote: On 3/21/2014 5:57 PM, Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org wrote: How does one send email to*THIS* list, without being subscribed in the first place? A bugzilla mailing list is a different matter. I think that is the main and primary point. I loathe lists that allow posts from non subscribers (spitlibreoffice users/spit), because it creates this exact problem. But in those cases, it should be on those who wish to leech (ask questions/get help from the list without having to subscribe) to proactively get their answers, by reading the archives on the web, etc. The burden absolutely should NEVER be on the list participants to try to figure out who needs to be individually CC'd on replies and who doesn't. Of course, if someone asks a question on such a list, and they specifically mention they are not subscribed and ask to be directly CC'd, then that is the one case when doing so is ok. But to blindly do this to everyone on the list just to insure that your oh-so-valuable reply makes it to the OP is just the height of arrogance and conceit. Exactly. I been on this list about a decade now. In that time, I have seen maybe a handful of people that requested a CC. I seem to vaguely recall one that couldn't access his regular email program, using different computer or something I guess, and didn't want to subscribe with the email addy he was currently using. The folks that were helping him did CC him since in that case, he needed it. That was a really long time ago. In recent history tho, I don't recall anyone requesting a CC at all. If they did, it was on a thread that I did not read. I usually at least try to read the first post to see if I can be of help. It seems that after burning a few bridges tho, this one finally understood the point. Time will tell I guess. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
Mateusz Kowalczyk wrote: On 22/03/14 14:48, Tanstaafl wrote: On 3/22/2014 5:06 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Helmut Jarausch wrote: Please don't use this list for personal quarrels of any kind! If someone says something you don't like - just ignore it/him. If someone insults you, reply by personal mail only. If someone says something which is*technically* wrong, just correct the facts without getting personal. I don't read every message but who is personally attacking someone? He's probably referring to my factual statement that Tom was/is acting like an arrogant prick. Lots of people confuse factual statements with personal attacks. That said, I've never been know for being tactful... ;) Go and solve this shit off-list. I'm not following the systemd thread but over the last few days but your (plural) quarrels have become far too big in number to ignore. Create a separate thread if you need it so that people can ignore it without missing actual on-topic messages. Will, since Tom finally got the point and changed his email program to not CC his replies, it seems to me that Tanstaaf, others and myself were right. It may have been off topic but if Tom would have just listened in the beginning, there wouldn't have to be so many off topic replies. Just saying. Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] Portable Gentoo (Pen Drive Linux)
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Peter Humphrey pe...@prh.myzen.co.uk wrote: On Saturday 22 Mar 2014 18:42:46 Nilesh Govindrajan wrote: ---8 What other distros are suited for this use case? I've installed that old favourite SysRescCD on a pen drive, following a method I found on the Web to include a persistent file-system with all the extras I wanted in, e.g., /usr/local/bin. It works well, except that I haven't found yet where to put all my aliases to have them sourced at (auto) log-in. This distro is quite close to Gentoo, but not identical. -- Regards Peter SystemRescueCD sounds like the best compromise, since its based on gentoo. You can add whatever it is you need. http://www.sysresccd.org/Sysresccd-manual-en_How_to_personalize_SystemRescueCd
Re: [gentoo-user] *** STOP misuing this list for personal attacks ***
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 12:29:20 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Will, since Tom finally got the point and changed his email program to not CC his replies, it seems to me that Tanstaaf, others and myself were right. It is based on preventing those off-topic replies from being made. I'm still very convinced about my viewpoint; I only not CC on this ML because of those off-topic replies, at the cost of a guarantee. It may have been off topic but if Tom would have just listened in the beginning, there wouldn't have to be so many off topic replies. Such replies could be made off-list; that way, the topic can remain. -- With kind regards, Tom Wijsman (TomWij) Gentoo Developer E-mail address : tom...@gentoo.org GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D
Re: [gentoo-user] Portable Gentoo (Pen Drive Linux)
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 13:57:22 +, Peter Humphrey wrote: I've installed that old favourite SysRescCD on a pen drive, following a method I found on the Web to include a persistent file-system with all the extras I wanted in, e.g., /usr/local/bin. It works well, except that I haven't found yet where to put all my aliases to have them sourced at (auto) log-in. There is a file that is executed by default at login, I think it is .autorun. I remember having to add an option to ignore it on the LXFDVDs because we use .autorun on those to launch a browser. -- Neil Bothwick IBM: Itty Bitty Mentality signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 16:52:56 +0100, Tom Wijsman wrote: Thank you very much +1; I see some other features there too that can be handy, eg. subject RegExp simplification. Okay, the CCs have been removed; to anyone else wondering how to do, you can tick the box of the field (here: CC) you want to drop and then leave the textbox empty, that way clicking on All will not CC people. Now I really hope the amount of people not aware of replies is small... If they do, it's their fault. Posting a question to this list and not bothering to wait for a response is just plain rude, especially when people go to the trouble of trying to help. I'm not saying that is how all lists work, on some the CC makes sense, but this list isn't like that, so thank you for recognising it and conforming to the accepted behaviour. -- Neil Bothwick I teleported home one night With Ron and Sid and Meg. Ron stole Meggie's heart away And I got Sidney's leg. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
Hello, On Sat, 22 Mar 2014, null_ptr wrote: modprobe pcspkr doesn't change anything. It is still silent. I also tried building it in the kernel. On the other hand from what I understand the snd_hda_intel should be doing the beeps when the mainboard does not have a physical speaker on the mainboard and instead beeps through the regular sound device. At least on 3.10.25 I had not build the pcspkr module and the system beeped happily. Have the module 'pcspkr' available and add 'pcsp=enable=1' to your kernel command line. HTH, -dnh -- Every feature is a bug, unless it can be turned off. -- Karl Heuer
[gentoo-user] Is there a known source of recent gentoo vm appliances?
Can anyone post a known source of recent gentoo based vm appliances? One that will work with VirtualBox would be especially handy.
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a known source of recent gentoo vm appliances?
On 03/22/2014 08:58 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: Can anyone post a known source of recent gentoo based vm appliances? One that will work with VirtualBox would be especially handy. howdy what is it that you are hoping to achieve? 'gentoo' can be as little as the install cd or as large as a high availability distributed cluster i don't know of anywhere with prebuilt vm, and honestly i can't say as i'd trust them either what with recent revelations of how proactive certain governments have been with regard to individual freedoms or privacy. some softwares such as asterisk have their own vm you can download. but for building your own you might find it easier to visit pappy http://www.kernel-seeds.org/ depending on what you are looking for this might take less time, especially as once you have one you can easily clone it ? hope this helps
Re: [gentoo-user] Is there a known source of recent gentoo vm appliances?
On 03/22/2014 09:44 PM, thegeezer wrote: On 03/22/2014 08:58 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: Can anyone post a known source of recent gentoo based vm appliances? One that will work with VirtualBox would be especially handy. was curious though - a quick google search shows http://gentoo-en.vfose.ru/wiki/Virtualbox_Guest#Configuring_the_Kernel for the kernel conf and http://virtualboxes.org/images/gentoo/ for the image or http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/3-websites-to-download-virtual-disk-images-for-virtualbox/ for pointers to a few more my own 2c though, you don't really know what's on them so make sure to tread carefully!
[gentoo-user] Re: Is there a known source of recent gentoo vm appliances?
thegeezer thegee...@thegeezer.net writes: On 03/22/2014 09:44 PM, thegeezer wrote: On 03/22/2014 08:58 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: Can anyone post a known source of recent gentoo based vm appliances? One that will work with VirtualBox would be especially handy. was curious though - a quick google search shows http://gentoo-en.vfose.ru/wiki/Virtualbox_Guest#Configuring_the_Kernel for the kernel conf and http://virtualboxes.org/Fimages/gentoo/ for the image or http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/3-websites-to-download-virtual-disk-images-for-virtualbox/ for pointers to a few more my own 2c though, you don't really know what's on them so make sure to tread carefully! A few points: There used to be a fellow that posted here regularly who built them My googling also turned up at least the middle one. I was pretty sure that there would be a newer setup than 2008 And finally, I hoped to hear of a tried and true source to eliminate all the kind of guesswork you are suggesting to be careful of.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is there a known source of recent gentoo vm appliances?
On 23/03/2014 00:23, Harry Putnam wrote: thegeezer thegee...@thegeezer.net writes: On 03/22/2014 09:44 PM, thegeezer wrote: On 03/22/2014 08:58 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: Can anyone post a known source of recent gentoo based vm appliances? One that will work with VirtualBox would be especially handy. was curious though - a quick google search shows http://gentoo-en.vfose.ru/wiki/Virtualbox_Guest#Configuring_the_Kernel for the kernel conf and http://virtualboxes.org/Fimages/gentoo/ for the image or http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/3-websites-to-download-virtual-disk-images-for-virtualbox/ for pointers to a few more my own 2c though, you don't really know what's on them so make sure to tread carefully! A few points: There used to be a fellow that posted here regularly who built them My googling also turned up at least the middle one. I was pretty sure that there would be a newer setup than 2008 And finally, I hoped to hear of a tried and true source to eliminate all the kind of guesswork you are suggesting to be careful of. Harry, Why look for a pre-built VM? Latest stage 3 is likely to be more current than a pre-built VM, and its really hard to come up with a setup that suits general needs. This is gentoo after all, and you are likely to to tweak a VM anyway just like you'd do with a regular host. In the time it takes to download a pre-built VM, you could also download a stage3 plus portage snapshot and unpack them into a blank VM, with much the same result. What are you hoping to achieve by using something pre-built? -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
Am 22.03.2014 02:08, schrieb null_ptr: On 21/03/14 14:41, Lee wrote: I can't think of the name of the module, pcspkr IIRC or some such, but it prolly isn't loaded. Modprobe can tell you if it's available load it. On Mar 21, 2014 12:41 PM, Dat G rhan...@gmx.de wrote: On 21/03/14 19:54, Francesco Turco wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2014, at 18:51, null_ptr wrote: Module for my sound card is running and SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is activated in kernel config. Am I missing something else? Perhaps you need CONFIG_INPUT_PCSPKR. I tried building with that and it didn't fix it. modprobe pcspkr doesn't change anything. It is still silent. I also tried building it in the kernel. On the other hand from what I understand the snd_hda_intel should be doing the beeps when the mainboard does not have a physical speaker on the mainboard and instead beeps through the regular sound device. At least on 3.10.25 I had not build the pcspkr module and the system beeped happily. you should have started with that bit of information. Now, are we talking about the motherboard beeping through a little builtin speaker that does not work or Are we talking about your onboard sound not beeping in your headphones/your attached speakers when there is a motherboard 'beep'? Either way, I don't see any problem at all. A non-beeping computer is a correctly working one.
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
On 22/03/14 23:40, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 22.03.2014 02:08, schrieb null_ptr: On 21/03/14 14:41, Lee wrote: I can't think of the name of the module, pcspkr IIRC or some such, but it prolly isn't loaded. Modprobe can tell you if it's available load it. On Mar 21, 2014 12:41 PM, Dat G rhan...@gmx.de wrote: On 21/03/14 19:54, Francesco Turco wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2014, at 18:51, null_ptr wrote: Module for my sound card is running and SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is activated in kernel config. Am I missing something else? Perhaps you need CONFIG_INPUT_PCSPKR. I tried building with that and it didn't fix it. modprobe pcspkr doesn't change anything. It is still silent. I also tried building it in the kernel. On the other hand from what I understand the snd_hda_intel should be doing the beeps when the mainboard does not have a physical speaker on the mainboard and instead beeps through the regular sound device. At least on 3.10.25 I had not build the pcspkr module and the system beeped happily. Now, are we talking about the motherboard beeping through a little builtin speaker that does not work or Are we talking about your onboard sound not beeping in your headphones/your attached speakers when there is a motherboard 'beep'? Either way, I don't see any problem at all. A non-beeping computer is a correctly working one. I'm talking about the onboard sound not beeping in the attached headphones/speakers when there is a motherboard 'beep'. The problem is that I used that for some events as a status (e.g. battery running low) and I like the annoying nature of the beep for these events.
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
Am 23.03.2014 00:45, schrieb null_ptr: On 22/03/14 23:40, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 22.03.2014 02:08, schrieb null_ptr: On 21/03/14 14:41, Lee wrote: I can't think of the name of the module, pcspkr IIRC or some such, but it prolly isn't loaded. Modprobe can tell you if it's available load it. On Mar 21, 2014 12:41 PM, Dat G rhan...@gmx.de wrote: On 21/03/14 19:54, Francesco Turco wrote: On Fri, Mar 21, 2014, at 18:51, null_ptr wrote: Module for my sound card is running and SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is activated in kernel config. Am I missing something else? Perhaps you need CONFIG_INPUT_PCSPKR. I tried building with that and it didn't fix it. modprobe pcspkr doesn't change anything. It is still silent. I also tried building it in the kernel. On the other hand from what I understand the snd_hda_intel should be doing the beeps when the mainboard does not have a physical speaker on the mainboard and instead beeps through the regular sound device. At least on 3.10.25 I had not build the pcspkr module and the system beeped happily. Now, are we talking about the motherboard beeping through a little builtin speaker that does not work or Are we talking about your onboard sound not beeping in your headphones/your attached speakers when there is a motherboard 'beep'? Either way, I don't see any problem at all. A non-beeping computer is a correctly working one. I'm talking about the onboard sound not beeping in the attached headphones/speakers when there is a motherboard 'beep'. The problem is that I used that for some events as a status (e.g. battery running low) and I like the annoying nature of the beep for these events. so it is not a 'speaker' problem but a sound card problem. You should have stated that from the beginning. Probably something muted that should not be muted.
Re: [gentoo-user] No motherboard beep since kernel upgrade
Hello, On Sun, 23 Mar 2014, null_ptr wrote: On 22/03/14 23:40, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: Am 22.03.2014 02:08, schrieb null_ptr: modprobe pcspkr doesn't change anything. It is still silent. I also tried building it in the kernel. On the other hand from what I understand the snd_hda_intel should be doing the beeps when the mainboard does not have a physical speaker on the mainboard and instead beeps through the regular sound device. At least on 3.10.25 I had not build the pcspkr module and the system beeped happily. Now, are we talking about the motherboard beeping through a little builtin speaker that does not work or Are we talking about your onboard sound not beeping in your headphones/your attached speakers when there is a motherboard 'beep'? [..] I'm talking about the onboard sound not beeping in the attached headphones/speakers when there is a motherboard 'beep'. The problem is that I used that for some events as a status (e.g. battery running low) and I like the annoying nature of the beep for these events. Wait. What now? You have (at least) two sound-devices that can beep: a) the beeper on your motherboard in this case, use what I wrote, i.e. pcsp=enable=1 in your kernel commandline and make sure modprobe pcspkr works. The module is not needed in the initrd. b) the onboard-sound-chip via attached speakers/headphones in this case, disable the mobo-beeper (might be default) blacklist pcspkr explicitly, possibly along with with the kernel-parameter pcsp=enable=0 and your normal alsa-driver should take over the task of beeping (snd-pcsp is a different beast). If it does not, your alsa-driver might be buggy as it should take over the beeping. HTH, -dnh, I wanted case a), beeping completely independent from any other audio stuff. And with the program 'beep' (http://www.johnath.com/beep) and/or the snd-pcsp driver, you can use the beeper to do more than the standard beep. -- There is a green, multi-legged creature crawling on your shoulder.
