Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Debian forked, because of systemd brouhaha
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 9:54 AM, »Q« boxc...@gmx.net wrote: On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 07:43:21 +0300 Andrew Savchenko birc...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:32:08 +0100 Marc Stürmer wrote: Am 29.11.2014 um 11:11 schrieb Pandu Poluan: What do you think, people? Shouldn't we offer them our eudev project to assist? Since Eudev has always been opensource under the GPLv2, like udev too, there's no need to /offer/ it. If they choose to use it, they can use it, no offer/questions necessary. Simple. As far as I understand, Pandu meant we can recommend them to use, but not some offer in commercial or proprietary terms. Yup, that's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion; I'm not a native English speaker, so I may have used an improper verb there :-) They've added something called devuan-eudev to their github workspace today, https://github.com/devuan/devuan-eudev. It would be nice if there could be one eudev project with the aim of supporting Gentoo, Devuan, and whatever other distros want to use it. Or if there must be multiple eudevs, it would be nice if the different teams could communicate and maybe take some patches from each other. (I'm no dev, so take my opinions on what would be nice for development with a chunk of salt.) Actually, that's my point by saying offer: Rather than letting them build eudev from scratch, let's work together on the eudev we have, promote it to something distro-neutral, then let Gentoo and Devuan (and whatever other distros) derive from that 'upstream' Uh, I do make myself clear(er) here, don't I? Rgds, -- FdS Pandu E Poluan ~ IT Optimizer ~ • LOPSA Member #15248 • Blog : http://pandu.poluan.info/blog/ • Linked-In : http://id.linkedin.com/in/pepoluan
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Debian forked, because of systemd brouhaha
Am 01.12.2014 um 09:22 schrieb Pandu Poluan: Actually, that's my point by saying offer: Rather than letting them build eudev from scratch, let's work together on the eudev we have, promote it to something distro-neutral, then let Gentoo and Devuan (and whatever other distros) derive from that 'upstream' Eudev is an already established opensource project with a working infrastructure and development team. It's got a leader, it's got an IRC channel, an open git repository for development and even a home page. So if they want to work with the already established team, I am sure they are welcome to add their man power to it. The building blocks are all there in place, they just need to come over and start working together. Also I do think that veteran unix admins do know how OSS development does work and how not; so if they fork Eudev instead of working together I presume they have their reasons for it.
Re: [gentoo-user] Debian forked, because of systemd brouhaha
Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Sun, 30 Nov 2014 13:01:33 +, Mick wrote: Nevertheless, I support moving away from a RHL sponsored monolithic binary and hopefully if not today it will happen eventually. systemd isn't monolithic so I can only assume you are referring to the Linux kernel here :) From the discussions I had on the IRC #debianfork channel, it seems that it is structured but it forms a quasi monolitic phalanx. Jörg -- EMail:jo...@schily.net(home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.org/private/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/schilytools/files/'
[gentoo-user] automated code validation
Howdy! Software validation has a long, often divisive history, we should all be aware of. I've seen several Computer Scientists (PH.Dumasses) go to fists over validation. It seems surreal now, but, it was hilarious at the time as none of the (3) involved in the fists_to_cuff had a clue about fighting. I'm sure other's have their stories. But, seriously, Gentoo has taken a big hit recently, with the loss of Tinderbox and Diego [1]. I surely do not want to dredge up that dispute. I liked both individuals quite a lot and the outcome is pitiful, to say the least. One was/is known to be a buss_crack, but I never had issues with him. What I could never figure out is why Tinderbox, did not exist in several different locations; this would allow everyone to test x_64 bit and then focus on different architectures. The code used should be open source and mainlined, as everyone in Opensource and elsewhere has need of robust, automated code validation testing, imho. [2] Now, an old idea of mine (several racks of gentoo systems of various types and diverse hardware) has an updated sense of urgency. Automated code testing and development, was the goal, with a twist. I also wanted a method to rapidly change the entire codebase on a piece of hardware; and that was the show stopper until recently. Granted this project was to be focused on embedded gentoo, but, I see no reason it could not be expanded to include testing gentoo distro codes for x86 (32 and 64 bit codes) and some other arches too. (OK so far?) So you say, great go build it! OK, I've been working on it. I do need to flesh out some ideas and refine some codes and models I have found; for that I would greatly appreciate constructive criticism, ideas and code contributions. I have the resources to scale up this effort. I would expect Gentoo to also encourage others to build up an automated test suite environment, at other locations. Existing resource-codes I expext to leverage: (1) running many of the test systems from USB devices aka likewhoa_usb. This solves changing out platforms for discrete tests, by manually moving platforms around with discrete usb sticks. Sure part of the automated code testing will be all scripts and ethernet, particular for the mainstream arches, but, I also wanto to support testing on standalone boards/system for things such as embedded systems, firewalls, micro-dns servers, etc etc. (2) support for linux containers/vm/emulation for some test platforms (here folks are especially encourage to chim in, as this is not my forte. (3) The state of the art in massive automated testing is Linaro, imho. [3,4] Granted Linaro is focused on the latest arm cores, not limited to 64 bit[5], but what they use works, albeit for rolling out regular binary builds and not built for a rolling release model. [6] Hopefully, with some input, we can address this aspect and come up with something (a model). Maybe some forward looking folks could use gaming theory to enhance this automated test environment that quickly links to code repositories where codes are developed and modified. That part of the effort would be experimental, as I see the opportunity maybe working with one or 2 Overlays that are specifically about a single category of code. And, just in case you are wondering, yet the cluster I'm working on is to be use for a myriad of admin tasks and cross compiling to support an automated testing platform. All input is welcome, positive or negative(obviously, security is a critical component, after the specification/model is established realizing that the spec. will be modified based on continuous security testing and enhancements). James [1] https://blog.flameeyes.eu/tag/tinderbox [2] http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Tinderbox_log_collection_and_analysis [3] https://launchpad.net/lava [4] https://validation.linaro.org/ [5] http://www.linaro.org/projects/test-validation/ [6] http://www.linaro.org/blog/lava-blog/lava-fundamentals/
[gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino
[gentoo-user] Re: Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
meino.cramer at gmx.de writes: But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. What about halt? man halt What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Meino Meino, it's an embedded system. That can mean unique hardware, via the SoC, hidden codes via the in-situ firmware, or a myriad of things hidden in the recommended kernel(s). Many embedded developers forked off their own embedded kernel form linux via the 2.2 or 2.4 kernel series. So, you have to fully characterize the system. Which is difficult to impossible, as the vendor wants to retain control in most circumstances. The good news is most hardware vendors are dumb, when it comes to codes; so there is most always a work-around; hence man halt as for your next leg of the journey? hth, James
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? About the only thing the kernel might have a role in is turning off the power. Almost all of the shutdown logic is in userspace and it isn't surprising that copying scripts between distros is going to cause issues since the whole service management component varies GREATLY across distros. Maybe if you're using systemd you could copy between distros since that is more standardized, but even then there can be differences. In a traditional sysvinit system usually shutting down is accomplished by changing runlevels, which immediately starts/stops anything in inittab (generally only gettys) and calls a script which does all the actual work. If the issue is that userspace shuts down fine but the system reboots instead of powering off that could be a couple of things which shouldn't be too hard to track down. An obvious question is whether the hardware even supports being powered off in the first place - this isn't an ATX motherboard. Powering off a system can sometimes be remarkably tricky depending on how standardized the platform is. I was reading an article on it a few years ago and I think linux actually implements several different mechanisms that get tried in series, with the final fallback being a halt without powering off. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino Just shooting in the dark here, try -h and -H but not at the same time? Maybe having both is clashing in some weird way??? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com [14-12-01 19:12]: meino.cramer at gmx.de writes: But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. What about halt? man halt What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Meino Meino, it's an embedded system. That can mean unique hardware, via the SoC, hidden codes via the in-situ firmware, or a myriad of things hidden in the recommended kernel(s). Many embedded developers forked off their own embedded kernel form linux via the 2.2 or 2.4 kernel series. So, you have to fully characterize the system. Which is difficult to impossible, as the vendor wants to retain control in most circumstances. The good news is most hardware vendors are dumb, when it comes to codes; so there is most always a work-around; hence man halt as for your next leg of the journey? hth, James Hi James, :) The complete software is open source. The patches from acmesystems to (or is against the better english word for that process???) the kernel are only adding dts/dtb files (device tree...kinda config file to tell the kernel at what adress what hardware is, what size the memory/flash is etcetera...human readable) and prepare an already done kernel configuration. There is no hiding by acmesystems. No propietary firmware blob (ok...there is one...but it is for the additional Ralink Wifi chip and is offered inside a Linux.firmware.tar.gz indepandantly from acmesystems.) The hardware itself consists of an AT91SAM9G25 CPU by Atmel and 256 MB of RAM (and some analog power thingies and regulators) and a Mico-USB socket. And lots of GPIO connectors. The hardware is such a Middle of the road that Robert Nelsons said, that even a complete mainline kernel just directly taken from Linus desktop would work. The problem with shutdown was mentioned in their Trouble shooting FAQ and it was said, that instead of halt one should use shutdown -h -H now...which works with a Debian system...but not with Gentoo. They describe how to compile the kernel thet use...: Fetch the 3.16.1 kernel from ftp.kernel.org Apply the patch Compile the kernel and the modules Install it on the SDcard. Add a rootfs Done. No hiding or propietary stuff. Just open source. The problem I think is burried under the differences of both rootfs: Debian and Gentoo Best regards, Meino
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com [14-12-01 19:16]: meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino Just shooting in the dark here, try -h and -H but not at the same time? Maybe having both is clashing in some weird way??? Dale :-) :-) Hi Dale, The Trouble shooting FAQ*) by acmesystems explicitely say shutdown -h -H now (and it works with the Debian rootfs)...but I will try the other shutdowns and will see, what happens, Best regards, Meino *) http://www.acmesystems.it/qa
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org [14-12-01 19:16]: On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? About the only thing the kernel might have a role in is turning off the power. Almost all of the shutdown logic is in userspace and it isn't surprising that copying scripts between distros is going to cause issues since the whole service management component varies GREATLY across distros. Maybe if you're using systemd you could copy between distros since that is more standardized, but even then there can be differences. In a traditional sysvinit system usually shutting down is accomplished by changing runlevels, which immediately starts/stops anything in inittab (generally only gettys) and calls a script which does all the actual work. If the issue is that userspace shuts down fine but the system reboots instead of powering off that could be a couple of things which shouldn't be too hard to track down. An obvious question is whether the hardware even supports being powered off in the first place - this isn't an ATX motherboard. Powering off a system can sometimes be remarkably tricky depending on how standardized the platform is. I was reading an article on it a few years ago and I think linux actually implements several different mechanisms that get tried in series, with the final fallback being a halt without powering off. -- Rich Hi Rich, AH! :) Thanks for the informations! From what you say, it is a kernel problem, since the kernel is the one who switches off the lights... But even if I use the same kernel as used for the Debian system it does not work... May be shutdown says power off the system and the kernel understands reboot the system? I mean: In principle the kernel would be able to poweroff the system but there are some communications difficulties with the guys from userland? ;) Best regards, Meino
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
2014-12-01 12:40 GMT-06:00 meino.cra...@gmx.de: Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org [14-12-01 19:16]: On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? About the only thing the kernel might have a role in is turning off the power. Almost all of the shutdown logic is in userspace and it isn't surprising that copying scripts between distros is going to cause issues since the whole service management component varies GREATLY across distros. Maybe if you're using systemd you could copy between distros since that is more standardized, but even then there can be differences. In a traditional sysvinit system usually shutting down is accomplished by changing runlevels, which immediately starts/stops anything in inittab (generally only gettys) and calls a script which does all the actual work. If the issue is that userspace shuts down fine but the system reboots instead of powering off that could be a couple of things which shouldn't be too hard to track down. An obvious question is whether the hardware even supports being powered off in the first place - this isn't an ATX motherboard. Powering off a system can sometimes be remarkably tricky depending on how standardized the platform is. I was reading an article on it a few years ago and I think linux actually implements several different mechanisms that get tried in series, with the final fallback being a halt without powering off. -- Rich Hi Rich, AH! :) Thanks for the informations! From what you say, it is a kernel problem, since the kernel is the one who switches off the lights... But even if I use the same kernel as used for the Debian system it does not work... May be shutdown says power off the system and the kernel understands reboot the system? I mean: In principle the kernel would be able to poweroff the system but there are some communications difficulties with the guys from userland? ;) Best regards, Meino I've always turned off across linux distros (BSD is other story) with: # shutdown -hP now the help says : -h: halt after shutdown. -P: halt action is to turn off power. -H: halt action is to just halt. I've not seen you using the -P flag.
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
Jc García jyo.gar...@gmail.com [14-12-01 20:36]: 2014-12-01 12:40 GMT-06:00 meino.cra...@gmx.de: Rich Freeman ri...@gentoo.org [14-12-01 19:16]: On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? About the only thing the kernel might have a role in is turning off the power. Almost all of the shutdown logic is in userspace and it isn't surprising that copying scripts between distros is going to cause issues since the whole service management component varies GREATLY across distros. Maybe if you're using systemd you could copy between distros since that is more standardized, but even then there can be differences. In a traditional sysvinit system usually shutting down is accomplished by changing runlevels, which immediately starts/stops anything in inittab (generally only gettys) and calls a script which does all the actual work. If the issue is that userspace shuts down fine but the system reboots instead of powering off that could be a couple of things which shouldn't be too hard to track down. An obvious question is whether the hardware even supports being powered off in the first place - this isn't an ATX motherboard. Powering off a system can sometimes be remarkably tricky depending on how standardized the platform is. I was reading an article on it a few years ago and I think linux actually implements several different mechanisms that get tried in series, with the final fallback being a halt without powering off. -- Rich Hi Rich, AH! :) Thanks for the informations! From what you say, it is a kernel problem, since the kernel is the one who switches off the lights... But even if I use the same kernel as used for the Debian system it does not work... May be shutdown says power off the system and the kernel understands reboot the system? I mean: In principle the kernel would be able to poweroff the system but there are some communications difficulties with the guys from userland? ;) Best regards, Meino I've always turned off across linux distros (BSD is other story) with: # shutdown -hP now the help says : -h: halt after shutdown. -P: halt action is to turn off power. -H: halt action is to just halt. I've not seen you using the -P flag. That's why the manufacturer of the Arietta G25 - Acmesystems said to use shutdown -h -H now for that purpose: http://www.acmesystems.it/qa Second question below the title Arietta G25 just on top of the page...
[gentoo-user] Custom ebuilds for CoreOS
Anyone know anything about coreos? Lookie lookie, they have ebuilds? python-oem-2.7.6-r1.ebuild [1] It clams to be 100% open source. It runs on bare metal, linux systems, clusters and clouds. It claims to have a much small footprint ~114 MB and boots very very fast via pxi(boot). Very interesting It does look commercial too?: https://coreos.com/ I guess my take is that eventually, linux will be very small, embedded and a cluster/cloud environment is where most systems will plug in, kinda like most modern cell phones. Hopefully, there'll be a systemd centric version so that enables individuals and small companies can remain in the game. Surely there will be a openrc version(s) that survives, adapts and remains relevant. To me, it appears that some forward looking folks have forked (stolen the best parts?) gentoo, made some fundamental (long overdue changes) and are all about creating a source_to_cluster platform. (h, vaguely sounds familiar...scratching head). It is a natural evilution for linux to take; or are we going to embrace some much needed change (new ideas) into gentoo? James [1] https://github.com/coreos/coreos-overlay/tree/master/dev-lang/python-oem [2] https://github.com/coreos/coreos-overlay/blob/master/eclass/git.eclass https://github.com/coreos https://coreos.com/products/ https://coreos.com/blog/rocket/ https://coreos.com/docs/
[gentoo-user] Re: Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
meino.cramer at gmx.de writes: But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. What about halt? man halt The problem I think is burried Okay, ferret it out. Does this accomplish what you want: sync;sync;sync;halt ? man sync You may need to pass arguements to halt. A standard man page may not be exactly correct in what you have, so you may have to peruse the codes. Think for a second. It's embedded, so why can the board (OS) be shutdown or halted as you like? James
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
On Monday, December 01, 2014 7:34:35 PM meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com [14-12-01 19:16]: meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino Just shooting in the dark here, try -h and -H but not at the same time? Maybe having both is clashing in some weird way??? Dale :-) :-) Hi Dale, The Trouble shooting FAQ*) by acmesystems explicitely say shutdown -h -H now (and it works with the Debian rootfs)...but I will try the other shutdowns and will see, what happens, Best regards, Meino *) http://www.acmesystems.it/qa Looking at the code for sysvinit, all shutdown does is set some environment variables and switch runlevel. The actual shutdown is done by halt and it's done through the reboot system call with RB_POWER_OFF. So, since you said the Gentoo system doesn't work even with Debian's kernel and the shutdown, then it must be that either Debian has a different halt, or more likely your Gentoo system calls halt with different options. So check your inittab on Gentoo and make sure it calls halt in the same way. -- Fernando Rodriguez frodriguez.develo...@outlook.com PGP Key: http://keys.gnupg.net/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF6CE157FF9525C1C signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
On Monday, December 01, 2014 7:34:35 PM meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com [14-12-01 19:16]: meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino Just shooting in the dark here, try -h and -H but not at the same time? Maybe having both is clashing in some weird way??? Dale :-) :-) Hi Dale, The Trouble shooting FAQ*) by acmesystems explicitely say shutdown -h -H now (and it works with the Debian rootfs)...but I will try the other shutdowns and will see, what happens, Best regards, Meino *) http://www.acmesystems.it/qa Also AFAICT the -H option just set an env variable INIT_HALT and it looks like OpenRC ignores it so look at your init scripts on Debian and see what it does when it is set. -- Fernando Rodriguez frodriguez.develo...@outlook.com PGP Key: http://keys.gnupg.net/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0xF6CE157FF9525C1C signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Custom ebuilds for CoreOS
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 3:46 PM, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: It clams to be 100% open source. It runs on bare metal, linux systems, clusters and clouds. It claims to have a much small footprint ~114 MB and boots very very fast via pxi(boot). The whole idea of CoreOS is to be the host for a bunch of containers. The host is completely generic - other than maybe configuring things like the network or hardware or things actually related to hosting (what containers to run/how/etc) you aren't suppose to really touch it. You don't install packages on the host. All the stuff you care about goes into the containers. Think of it like VMWare on bare metal, except it is linux and you're running containers and not VMs (so much more efficient, and less secure). Surely there will be a openrc version(s) that survives, adapts and remains relevant. Again, the point of CoreOS is that you don't care how the host works. You won't add/remove services from the host. As such you won't care what init implementation it runs. The containers are a completely different beast. You might just run your application in the container as PID 1. Or, maybe you run something like sysvinit+openrc or systemd inside a container. You could have one of each running on the same host. To me, it appears that some forward looking folks have forked (stolen the best parts?) gentoo, made some fundamental (long overdue changes) and are all about creating a source_to_cluster platform. (h, vaguely sounds familiar...scratching head). It is a natural evilution for linux to take; or are we going to embrace some much needed change (new ideas) into gentoo? I have no idea if CoreOS is Gentoo-derived, but it is very much a special-purpose distro. The whole concept is that you put all the value-add in the containers, and then you just want a really standard and lightweight distro to host your containers in. Maybe you run CentOS in one container, and Gentoo in another container, and Debian in another container. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 2:51 PM, meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Jc García jyo.gar...@gmail.com [14-12-01 20:36]: I've not seen you using the -P flag. That's why the manufacturer of the Arietta G25 - Acmesystems said to use shutdown -h -H now for that purpose: http://www.acmesystems.it/qa Second question below the title Arietta G25 just on top of the page... Have you just tried using -P to make sure that it doesn't work? The instructions also say to use Debian, not Gentoo. Since most of the shutdown behavior is in userspace and using components that vary significantly between distros, I wouldn't blindly follow the instructions written for one distro and expect it to just work with a different distro. Maybe Debian has some bug that makes -P not work, but -H does work. Maybe OpenRC doesn't have that bug. -- Rich
Re: [gentoo-user] Custom ebuilds for CoreOS
On Mon, 1 Dec 2014 20:46:54 + (UTC), James wrote: I guess my take is that eventually, linux will be very small, embedded and a cluster/cloud environment is where most systems will plug in, kinda like most modern cell phones. Hopefully, there'll be a systemd centric version so that enables individuals and small companies can remain in the game. Given that CoreOS have sponsored some systemd development (systemd-networkd), I think it is reasonable to assume they plan to stick with systemd for the foreseeable future. -- Neil Bothwick Top Oxymorons Number 11: Terribly pleased pgpOg34vmPTR_.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Shutdown, Gentoo and the Arietta.G25
On Dec 1, 2014, at 23:03, Fernando Rodriguez frodriguez.develo...@outlook.com wrote: On Monday, December 01, 2014 7:34:35 PM meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com [14-12-01 19:16]: meino.cra...@gmx.de wrote: Hi, another sigh from an Arietta adventure... I sintalled Gentoo on an Arietta G25 (http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta). For this I used Robert Nelsons Kernel for armv5tel platforms, which boots fine (using at91bootstrap, no U-Boot). But: Shutdown (as recommmended by acmesystems shutdown -h -H now) REBOOTS the system instead of powering it down. The hardware is not to blame: Using the original Debian rootfs and the kernel 3.16.1 (Robert Nelsons kernel is 3.17.3.) the powerdown works fine. Firstly I blamed the kernel...but when using the 3.16.1 kernel and the Gentoo rootfs the problem remains. Then I copied the Gentoo shutdown to the Debian rootfs, boot that and tries to shutdown the Debian Linux with it. shutdown cries no /dev/initctl adn shutdowns the system only for rebooting it. Ok...seems to be the shutdown executable. I copied the Debian shutdown to Gentoo and tries that: The systems reboots. Slowly but surely I begin to think, that I dont understand anything at all of It would be relly good news, that... man shutdown on the Debian image informs me, that the manpages were not installed (embedded system...). Shutdown --version gives a short help of the usual options...but nothing more. What is the difference here? Isn't it, that all shutdown applications only send some instructions to the kernel and the kernel is the main actor in bringing the system down? Is there any shutdown guru ;) out there, who is able to shed some light into this problem ? :) Thank you very much in advance for any torch send into my direction! Best regards, Meino Just shooting in the dark here, try -h and -H but not at the same time? Maybe having both is clashing in some weird way??? Dale :-) :-) Hi Dale, The Trouble shooting FAQ*) by acmesystems explicitely say shutdown -h -H now (and it works with the Debian rootfs)...but I will try the other shutdowns and will see, what happens, Best regards, Meino *) http://www.acmesystems.it/qa Looking at the code for sysvinit, all shutdown does is set some environment variables and switch runlevel. The actual shutdown is done by halt and it's done through the reboot system call with RB_POWER_OFF. So, since you said the Gentoo system doesn't work even with Debian's kernel and the shutdown, then it must be that either Debian has a different halt, or more likely your Gentoo system calls halt with different options. So check your inittab on Gentoo and make sure it calls halt in the same way. Hi meino The thing is as Fernando pointed out: Kernel powers off the hardware and a system call is used to instruct kernel to do so. Test your system. Perform a system call to shutdown the board. As you perform this system call the arietta will instantly eighter boot or shutdown. See system call man page to see the list of available system calls. This way you can make sure the system works as expected... When you have found the right system call, then you need to make init call that system call as the last command in run level 0. -- -Matti
[gentoo-user] Re: Custom ebuilds for CoreOS
Rich Freeman rich0 at gentoo.org writes: To me, it appears that some forward looking folks have forked (stolen the best parts?) gentoo, made some fundamental (long overdue changes) and are all about creating a source_to_cluster platform. (h, vaguely sounds familiar...scratching head). It is a natural evilution for linux to take; or are we going to embrace some much needed change (new ideas) into gentoo? I have no idea if CoreOS is Gentoo-derived, but it is very much a special-purpose distro. The whole concept is that you put all the value-add in the containers, and then you just want a really standard and lightweight distro to host your containers in. Maybe you run CentOS in one container, and Gentoo in another container, and Debian in another container. Your first points are understood; and centos appear to be focused on the commercial cloud mentality of don't buy hareware, rent containers from us crowd. That, to me, is a fool's path. What I'm hoping for is that with the (gentoo) past of revolving devs, Hasufell ideas for distributed development by reducing the gentoo core; Flameyes takedown of tinderbox, my pursuit of clustering and many other issues (pid1) all seem to inidcate that many distros are fundamentally examining their path(s) forward. So, I think gentoo can have a minimize version that achieves what CoreOS is doing, but it is gentoo-bare-metal centric. I think Gentoo can robustly support systemd and openrc, containers and other key areas and new technologies, in a fundamentally unique way. I do think a fundamental update to the entire gentoo environment is a healthy ares for discussion. I do appreciate your insights on coreOS. I see it as a minimized embedded effort to bring resources into a cluster that is exclusively controlled by the owner. I have zero interest in the cloud as beside being a very dumb idea for too many reasons to innumerate, it removes folks from gaining knowledge of direct hardware experiences. I do love the way the cloud vendors find and collect up the very best ideas. I hate how the cloud vendors want to offer those best ideas, as a transient benefit via time-rented binaries. I strongly believe we are at a nexus (a vergence in the force) as many new technologies are converging very rapidly. Call it what you like, but, we are at the crossroads of some very unique opportunites, imho. If we had a gentoo cluster right now, something like tinderbox would have been running there all along. YMMV. James
Re: [gentoo-user] Custom ebuilds for CoreOS
On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 1 Dec 2014 20:46:54 + (UTC), James wrote: I guess my take is that eventually, linux will be very small, embedded and a cluster/cloud environment is where most systems will plug in, kinda like most modern cell phones. Hopefully, there'll be a systemd centric version so that enables individuals and small companies can remain in the game. Given that CoreOS have sponsored some systemd development (systemd-networkd), I think it is reasonable to assume they plan to stick with systemd for the foreseeable future. More importantly, CoreOS uses systemd to monitor/control the instances inside containers like systemd-nspawn does, only in a more general and powerful way. I don't think you can currently run the CoreOS host with anything other than systemd, and to make it so it would be a lot of work. From [2]: Within the CoreOS world, you will almost exclusively use systemd to manage the lifecycle of your Docker containers. Regards. [2] https://coreos.com/docs/launching-containers/launching/getting-started-with-systemd/ -- Canek Peláez Valdés Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
[gentoo-user] virus/malware scanner for linux
I know there are some command line virus/malware scanners for Linux? It has been long time ago since I run any of them, that I forgot their names :-/ What are they? -- Joseph
Re: [gentoo-user] virus/malware scanner for linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 02/12/14 16:24, Joseph wrote: I know there are some command line virus/malware scanners for Linux? It has been long time ago since I run any of them, that I forgot their names :-/ What are they? This sounds like something Google can answer for you rather quicker than any mailing list could; but off the top of my head: ClamAV (which is in the portage tree under app-antivirus/) is a pretty common one; plus I think there are linux versions of both AVG and Avast. There are probably others that Google can help you find. - -- wraeth wra...@wraeth.id.au GnuPG Key: B2D9F759 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlR9T3kACgkQXcRKerLZ91mKnQD+KqJiloijvq0K39lS4Yqkw2rD ekyd4y2gg/iSAlv9JesA/2iqLH5q0jmRsToB7+6TFbQyxIoQ2qL6YTSTtYTORbkL =SeKI -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] virus/malware scanner for linux
Joseph wrote: I know there are some command line virus/malware scanners for Linux? It has been long time ago since I run any of them, that I forgot their names :-/ What are they? Here is one that I have used in the past. http://www.f-prot.com/ It's no longer in the tree so not sure how difficult it would be to install. Dale :-) :-)
