Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect build failed

[Michael]

Jude, the initial CFLAGS I suggested are safe, but suboptimal.  They do not 
tune your system's compiler to utilise all of your CPU's instructions.

In the first instance, you should set the CFLAGS as appropriate for your PC 
and specifically include -march=native, as suggested by Waldo.  Please check 
this chapter in the Gentoo Handbook:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/
Stage#Configuring_compile_options

Also, add the appropriate CPU USE flags either in CPU_FLAGS_X86="..." in your 
/etc/portage/make.conf, or in /etc/portage/package.use/00cpuflags.  You can 
install and run cpuid2cpuflags to print out your CPU's USE flags - e.g.:

mkdir /etc/portage/package.use   # if not set up yet
echo "*/* $(cpuid2cpuflags)" > /etc/portage/package.use/00cpuflags

Then you can proceed with the steps in the Handbook to install your system.

The download of binary packages is a more recent choice offered by Gentoo and 
can save time as opposed to compiling everything from source on your system.  
Previously posted links explain how to configure your system to set up and use 
a gentoo binhost.

If there is a /binpackages/ subdirectory on the mirror it will contain the 
precompiled binary packages and given you are running a modern CPU, you should 
set /x86-64-v3 in your binrepos.conf.

HTH.

On Friday, 24 May 2024 13:29:46 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Michael,
> 
> The changes you selected worked.  I got mirrorselect compiled and ran it
> and got http ftp and rsync repos defined.  I'm wondering have all of the
> gentoo mirrors got binaries?
> 
> 
> --
>  Jude 
>  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
>  Please use in that order."
>  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
> 
> On Fri, 24 May 2024, Michael wrote:
> > On Friday, 24 May 2024 09:57:36 BST Waldo Lemmer wrote:
> > > Hi Michael,
> > > 
> > > -march=x86-64 and -mtune=generic will not speed up your OS installation.
> > > These flags tell compilers to produce binaries that can run on any AMD64
> > > system and that aren't optimized for your specific system.
> > > 
> > > These flags have no effect on binary packages, since those have already
> > > been compiled.
> > 
> > You're right, those are the settings the binary packages have been built
> > with - my mistake, sorry!
> > 
> > The CFLAGS on the client should/could be tuned to its own CPU with "-
> > march=native". The "... speeding up of the OS installation" I had
> > mentioned
> > referred to downloading the binaries, rather than having to build them
> > locally.
> > 
> > Anyway, the CFLAGS Jude posted are incorrect:
> > 
> > CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> > 
> > and his CPU_FLAGS_X86 are incomplete:
> > 
> > CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext sse sse2"
> > 
> > Your links should hopefully help Jude to set the correct settings for this
> > system, before he continues with the Gentoo Handbook.



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Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect build failed

[Jude DaShiell]

Michael,

The changes you selected worked.  I got mirrorselect compiled and ran it
and got http ftp and rsync repos defined.  I'm wondering have all of the
gentoo mirrors got binaries?


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Fri, 24 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> On Friday, 24 May 2024 09:57:36 BST Waldo Lemmer wrote:
> > Hi Michael,
> >
> > -march=x86-64 and -mtune=generic will not speed up your OS installation.
> > These flags tell compilers to produce binaries that can run on any AMD64
> > system and that aren't optimized for your specific system.
> >
> > These flags have no effect on binary packages, since those have already
> > been compiled.
>
> You're right, those are the settings the binary packages have been built with
> - my mistake, sorry!
>
> The CFLAGS on the client should/could be tuned to its own CPU with "-
> march=native". The "... speeding up of the OS installation" I had mentioned
> referred to downloading the binaries, rather than having to build them
> locally.
>
> Anyway, the CFLAGS Jude posted are incorrect:
>
> CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
>
> and his CPU_FLAGS_X86 are incomplete:
>
> CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext sse sse2"
>
> Your links should hopefully help Jude to set the correct settings for this
> system, before he continues with the Gentoo Handbook.

Re: [gentoo-user] 100% CPU load in qtwebengine

[Michael]

On Friday, 24 May 2024 11:52:55 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Thursday, 23 May 2024 20:13:27 BST Michael wrote:
> > On Thursday, 23 May 2024 14:07:16 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > Hello list,
> > > 
> > > On this box I have this:
> > > 
> > > # grep '\-j' /etc/portage/make.conf
> > > EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs --load-average=4 [...] "
> > > MAKEOPTS="-j4 -l4"
> > > 
> > > That seems to work well, except for a 20s period at the beginning of
> > > emerging qtwebengine, during which CPU load goes to 100%, according to
> > > gkrellm.
> > > 
> > > It seems that the ebuild runs a process other than make, ignoring
> > > make.conf. Does anyone here know what that might be, and why it
> > > disregards my preferences?
> > 
> > Does this happen while  the source archive is being decompressed?
> 
> It could be; the .tar.xz file is 288MB - but I didn't think bzip2 was
> multithreaded*. I tried to check by rerunning the emerge, but it found a
> Gentoo binary and went to fetch that.
> 
> *  And app-alternatives/bzip2 has installed bzip2.

The archive is compressed with xz, which in later versions can run in a 
multithreaded fashion.  I don't know if emerge calls upon it to operate with 
multiple threads (e.g. xz --threads 0 foo.xz).

PS. The bzip2 is single threaded and a slow compressor to boot, but pbzip2 is 
multithreaded.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Off Topic - UPnP servers

[Michael]

On Friday, 24 May 2024 01:32:29 BST Mark Knecht wrote:
> Hi,
>Please excuse my off topic question. Does anyone here use a UPnP server
> for audio files that they recommend as being particularly good?
> 
>I'm a Plex user for video and have also ripped my CD collection. Plex
> plays audio fine to TVs that have a Plex app but apparently sometimes
> doesn't work well (as of yet untested by me) to network streaming players.
> 
>While I don't know if the above will be a problem I've purchased a
> network streaming player and will test it out over the weekend when it
> arrives but if Plex doesn't work, or doesn't work well, then I'd like to
> find a UPnP server that does. Browsing around on the web I find a number of
> names:
> 
> 1. Kodi – Home Theater Software
> 2. Universal Media Server
> 3. Jellyfin – Free Software Media System
> 4. DMS – UPnP DLNA Digital Media Server
> 5. Coherence – DLNA/UPnP Media Server
> 6. SimpleDLNA – Free DLNA Media Server
> 7. Gerbera – Free Media Server
> 8. ReadyMedia – MiniDLNA Media Server
> 9. Rygel – Home Media Solution
> 
>Anyone have any first hand experience?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark

I have not used a Plex Media Server or any of its client apps.  I have used 
Kodi and also MiniDLNA (now ReadyMedia).

Kodi is a very feature rich HTC and would be my go to system for both audio 
and video.  The only problem I found is it can take some manual configuration 
to sort out your own audio file libraries, with preferred thumbnails, etc.  
Ripped CDs do not have this problem, as they will fetch artwork from online 
databases:

https://kodi.wiki/view/Artwork/Cache

It is worth mentioning you should keep a backup of your configuration 
settings, in case things go sideways at any stage:

https://kodi.wiki/view/Kodi_data_folder

The MiniDLNA is a very simple and reliable server I use to serve video/audio/
photos to TVs.  It has an also simple /etc/minidlna.conf file, it'll take you 
=<2 minutes to edit with the path to your media files. The gotchas here are 
more pertinent to the video/audio codec limitations of the TV DLNA clients, 
rather than the server.  The server will stream whatever file the client asks 
for over the DLNA protocol.

HTH.


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Re: [gentoo-user] 100% CPU load in qtwebengine

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday, 23 May 2024 20:13:27 BST Michael wrote:
> On Thursday, 23 May 2024 14:07:16 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > Hello list,
> > 
> > On this box I have this:
> > 
> > # grep '\-j' /etc/portage/make.conf
> > EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs --load-average=4 [...] "
> > MAKEOPTS="-j4 -l4"
> > 
> > That seems to work well, except for a 20s period at the beginning of
> > emerging qtwebengine, during which CPU load goes to 100%, according to
> > gkrellm.
> > 
> > It seems that the ebuild runs a process other than make, ignoring
> > make.conf. Does anyone here know what that might be, and why it
> > disregards my preferences?
> 
> Does this happen while  the source archive is being decompressed?

It could be; the .tar.xz file is 288MB - but I didn't think bzip2 was 
multithreaded*. I tried to check by rerunning the emerge, but it found a 
Gentoo binary and went to fetch that.

*  And app-alternatives/bzip2 has installed bzip2.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect build failed

[Michael]

On Friday, 24 May 2024 09:57:36 BST Waldo Lemmer wrote:
> Hi Michael,
> 
> -march=x86-64 and -mtune=generic will not speed up your OS installation.
> These flags tell compilers to produce binaries that can run on any AMD64
> system and that aren't optimized for your specific system.
> 
> These flags have no effect on binary packages, since those have already
> been compiled.

You're right, those are the settings the binary packages have been built with 
- my mistake, sorry!

The CFLAGS on the client should/could be tuned to its own CPU with "-
march=native". The "... speeding up of the OS installation" I had mentioned 
referred to downloading the binaries, rather than having to build them 
locally.

Anyway, the CFLAGS Jude posted are incorrect:

CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"

and his CPU_FLAGS_X86 are incomplete:

CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext sse sse2"

Your links should hopefully help Jude to set the correct settings for this 
system, before he continues with the Gentoo Handbook.

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Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect build failed

[Waldo Lemmer]

Hi Michael,

-march=x86-64 and -mtune=generic will not speed up your OS installation.
These flags tell compilers to produce binaries that can run on any AMD64
system and that aren't optimized for your specific system.

These flags have no effect on binary packages, since those have already
been compiled.

If you want to speed up packages you compile yourself, you should use
-march=native. This is all well documented at
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GCC_optimization.

In order to use binary packages that have been optimized for more modern
systems, see https://www.gentoo.org/news/2024/02/04/x86-64-v3.html.

Regards
Waldo


On Fri, May 24, 2024, 10:40 Michael  wrote:

> Hi Jude,
>
> If you intend to use Gentoo's precompiled binary packages, to speed up
> your OS
> installation, you should have 'generic' CFLAGS; e.g.:
>
> CFLAGS="-march=x86-64 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe"
>
> Please check these pages:
>
> https://www.gentoo.org/news/2023/12/29/Gentoo-binary.html
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Binary_Host_Quickstart
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Binary_package_guide
>
>
> On Thursday, 23 May 2024 22:45:52 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > Portage 3.0.63 (python 3.11.9-final-0, default/linux/amd64/23.0/desktop,
> > gcc-13, glibc-2.39-r6, 6.6.7 x86_64)
> > =
> >  System Settings
> > =
> > System uname:
> > Linux-6.6.7-x86_64-Intel-R-_Core-TM-_i7-10700K_CPU_@
> _3.80GHz-with-glibc2.39
> > KiB Mem:16156144 total,  14998556 free
> > KiB Swap:   40700884 total,  40700884 free
> > Timestamp of repository gentoo: Thu, 23 May 2024 00:45:00 +
> > Head commit of repository gentoo:
> 6731026bd416e5bd05a2b380cfdf6ff7e7134fe5
> > sh bash 5.1_p16-r6
> > ld GNU ld (Gentoo 2.42 p3) 2.42.0
> > app-misc/pax-utils:1.3.7::gentoo
> > app-shells/bash:   5.1_p16-r6::gentoo
> > dev-build/autoconf:2.71-r7::gentoo
> > dev-build/automake:1.16.5-r2::gentoo
> > dev-build/libtool: 2.4.7-r4::gentoo
> > dev-build/make:4.4.1-r1::gentoo
> > dev-build/meson:   1.4.0-r1::gentoo
> > dev-lang/perl: 5.38.2-r3::gentoo
> > dev-lang/python:   3.11.9::gentoo, 3.12.3::gentoo
> > sys-apps/baselayout:   2.15::gentoo
> > sys-apps/openrc:   0.54::gentoo
> > sys-apps/sandbox:  2.38::gentoo
> > sys-devel/binutils:2.42-r1::gentoo
> > sys-devel/binutils-config: 5.5::gentoo
> > sys-devel/gcc: 13.2.1_p20240210::gentoo
> > sys-devel/gcc-config:  2.11::gentoo
> > sys-kernel/linux-headers:  6.6-r1::gentoo (virtual/os-headers)
> > sys-libs/glibc:2.39-r6::gentoo
> > Repositories:
> >
> > gentoo
> > location: /var/db/repos/gentoo
> > sync-type: rsync
> > sync-uri: rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage
> > priority: -1000
> > volatile: False
> > sync-rsync-verify-max-age: 3
> > sync-rsync-verify-metamanifest: yes
> > sync-rsync-extra-opts:
> > sync-rsync-verify-jobs: 1
> >
> > Binary Repositories:
> >
> > gentoobinhost
> > priority: 1
> > sync-uri:
> > https://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/amd64/binpackages/23.0/x86-64
> >
> > ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
> > ACCEPT_LICENSE="@FREE"
> > CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> > CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> > CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> > CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt"
> > CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/gconf
> > /etc/gentoo-release /etc/sandbox.d" CXXFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> > DISTDIR="/var/cache/distfiles"
> > ENV_UNSET="CARGO_HOME DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS DISPLAY
> > GDK_PIXBUF_MODULE_FILE GOBIN GOPATH PERL5LIB PERL5OPT PERLPREFIX
> PERL_CORE
> > PERL_MB_OPT PERL_MM_OPT XAUTHORITY XDG_CACHE_HOME XDG_CONFIG_HOME
> > XDG_DATA_HOME XDG_RUNTIME_DIR XDG_STATE_HOME" FCFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> > FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-docompress binpkg-dostrip binpkg-logs
> > binpkg-multi-instance buildpkg-live config-protect-if-modified distlocks
> > ebuild-locks fixlafiles ipc-sandbox merge-sync merge-wait multilib-strict
> > network-sandbox news parallel-fetch pid-sandbox pkgdir-index-trusted
> > preserve-libs protect-owned qa-unresolved-soname-deps sandbox sfperms
> > strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch
> > userpriv usersandbox usersync xattr" FFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> > GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org;
> > LANG="en_US.utf8"
> > LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-z,pack-relative-relocs"
> > LEX="flex"
> > MAKEOPTS="-j7 -l8"
> > PKGDIR="/var/cache/binpkgs"
> > PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/"
> > PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times
> > --omit-dir-times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats
> > --human-readable --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local
> > --exclude=/packages --exclude=/.git" PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
> > SHELL="/bin/bash"
> > USE="X a52 aac 

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect build failed

[Michael]

Hi Jude,

If you intend to use Gentoo's precompiled binary packages, to speed up your OS 
installation, you should have 'generic' CFLAGS; e.g.:

CFLAGS="-march=x86-64 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe"

Please check these pages:

https://www.gentoo.org/news/2023/12/29/Gentoo-binary.html
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Binary_Host_Quickstart
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Binary_package_guide


On Thursday, 23 May 2024 22:45:52 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Portage 3.0.63 (python 3.11.9-final-0, default/linux/amd64/23.0/desktop,
> gcc-13, glibc-2.39-r6, 6.6.7 x86_64)
> =
>  System Settings
> =
> System uname:
> Linux-6.6.7-x86_64-Intel-R-_Core-TM-_i7-10700K_CPU_@_3.80GHz-with-glibc2.39
> KiB Mem:16156144 total,  14998556 free
> KiB Swap:   40700884 total,  40700884 free
> Timestamp of repository gentoo: Thu, 23 May 2024 00:45:00 +
> Head commit of repository gentoo: 6731026bd416e5bd05a2b380cfdf6ff7e7134fe5
> sh bash 5.1_p16-r6
> ld GNU ld (Gentoo 2.42 p3) 2.42.0
> app-misc/pax-utils:1.3.7::gentoo
> app-shells/bash:   5.1_p16-r6::gentoo
> dev-build/autoconf:2.71-r7::gentoo
> dev-build/automake:1.16.5-r2::gentoo
> dev-build/libtool: 2.4.7-r4::gentoo
> dev-build/make:4.4.1-r1::gentoo
> dev-build/meson:   1.4.0-r1::gentoo
> dev-lang/perl: 5.38.2-r3::gentoo
> dev-lang/python:   3.11.9::gentoo, 3.12.3::gentoo
> sys-apps/baselayout:   2.15::gentoo
> sys-apps/openrc:   0.54::gentoo
> sys-apps/sandbox:  2.38::gentoo
> sys-devel/binutils:2.42-r1::gentoo
> sys-devel/binutils-config: 5.5::gentoo
> sys-devel/gcc: 13.2.1_p20240210::gentoo
> sys-devel/gcc-config:  2.11::gentoo
> sys-kernel/linux-headers:  6.6-r1::gentoo (virtual/os-headers)
> sys-libs/glibc:2.39-r6::gentoo
> Repositories:
> 
> gentoo
> location: /var/db/repos/gentoo
> sync-type: rsync
> sync-uri: rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage
> priority: -1000
> volatile: False
> sync-rsync-verify-max-age: 3
> sync-rsync-verify-metamanifest: yes
> sync-rsync-extra-opts:
> sync-rsync-verify-jobs: 1
> 
> Binary Repositories:
> 
> gentoobinhost
> priority: 1
> sync-uri:
> https://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/amd64/binpackages/23.0/x86-64
> 
> ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
> ACCEPT_LICENSE="@FREE"
> CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt"
> CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/gconf
> /etc/gentoo-release /etc/sandbox.d" CXXFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> DISTDIR="/var/cache/distfiles"
> ENV_UNSET="CARGO_HOME DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS DISPLAY
> GDK_PIXBUF_MODULE_FILE GOBIN GOPATH PERL5LIB PERL5OPT PERLPREFIX PERL_CORE
> PERL_MB_OPT PERL_MM_OPT XAUTHORITY XDG_CACHE_HOME XDG_CONFIG_HOME
> XDG_DATA_HOME XDG_RUNTIME_DIR XDG_STATE_HOME" FCFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-docompress binpkg-dostrip binpkg-logs
> binpkg-multi-instance buildpkg-live config-protect-if-modified distlocks
> ebuild-locks fixlafiles ipc-sandbox merge-sync merge-wait multilib-strict
> network-sandbox news parallel-fetch pid-sandbox pkgdir-index-trusted
> preserve-libs protect-owned qa-unresolved-soname-deps sandbox sfperms
> strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch
> userpriv usersandbox usersync xattr" FFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org;
> LANG="en_US.utf8"
> LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-z,pack-relative-relocs"
> LEX="flex"
> MAKEOPTS="-j7 -l8"
> PKGDIR="/var/cache/binpkgs"
> PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/"
> PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times
> --omit-dir-times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats
> --human-readable --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local
> --exclude=/packages --exclude=/.git" PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
> SHELL="/bin/bash"
> USE="X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo cdda cdr
> cet crypt cups dbus dri dts dvd dvdr elogind encode exif flac gdbm gif gpm
> gtk gui iconv icu ipv6 jpeg lcms libnotify libtirpc mad mng mp3 mp4 mpeg
> multilib ncurses nls ogg opengl openmp pam pango pcre pdf png policykit
> ppds qt5 readline sdl seccomp sound spell ssl startup-notification svg
> test-rust tiff truetype udev udisks unicode upower usb vorbis vulkan
> wxwidgets x264 xattr xcb xft xml xv xvid zlib" ABI_X86="64"
> ADA_TARGET="gcc_12" APACHE2_MODULES="authn_core authz_core socache_shmcb
> unixd actions alias auth_basic authn_anon authn_dbm authn_file authz_dbm
> authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi cgid
> dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir env expires ext_filter file_cache filter
> headers include info log_config logio mime mime_magic negotiation rewrite

Re: [gentoo-user] mirrorselect build failed

[Waldo Lemmer]

Hi Jude,

When the build failed, emerge asked you post 3 things when you need
support. Of those, you've managed to omit the most important thing, i.e.
the build log. Without it, it would be impossible to help you.

Regards,
Waldo

On Thu, May 23, 2024, 23:46 Jude DaShiell  wrote:

> Portage 3.0.63 (python 3.11.9-final-0, default/linux/amd64/23.0/desktop,
> gcc-13, glibc-2.39-r6, 6.6.7 x86_64)
> =
>  System Settings
> =
> System uname: Linux-6.6.7-x86_64-Intel-R-_Core-TM-_i7-10700K_CPU_@
> _3.80GHz-with-glibc2.39
> KiB Mem:16156144 total,  14998556 free
> KiB Swap:   40700884 total,  40700884 free
> Timestamp of repository gentoo: Thu, 23 May 2024 00:45:00 +
> Head commit of repository gentoo: 6731026bd416e5bd05a2b380cfdf6ff7e7134fe5
> sh bash 5.1_p16-r6
> ld GNU ld (Gentoo 2.42 p3) 2.42.0
> app-misc/pax-utils:1.3.7::gentoo
> app-shells/bash:   5.1_p16-r6::gentoo
> dev-build/autoconf:2.71-r7::gentoo
> dev-build/automake:1.16.5-r2::gentoo
> dev-build/libtool: 2.4.7-r4::gentoo
> dev-build/make:4.4.1-r1::gentoo
> dev-build/meson:   1.4.0-r1::gentoo
> dev-lang/perl: 5.38.2-r3::gentoo
> dev-lang/python:   3.11.9::gentoo, 3.12.3::gentoo
> sys-apps/baselayout:   2.15::gentoo
> sys-apps/openrc:   0.54::gentoo
> sys-apps/sandbox:  2.38::gentoo
> sys-devel/binutils:2.42-r1::gentoo
> sys-devel/binutils-config: 5.5::gentoo
> sys-devel/gcc: 13.2.1_p20240210::gentoo
> sys-devel/gcc-config:  2.11::gentoo
> sys-kernel/linux-headers:  6.6-r1::gentoo (virtual/os-headers)
> sys-libs/glibc:2.39-r6::gentoo
> Repositories:
>
> gentoo
> location: /var/db/repos/gentoo
> sync-type: rsync
> sync-uri: rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage
> priority: -1000
> volatile: False
> sync-rsync-verify-max-age: 3
> sync-rsync-verify-metamanifest: yes
> sync-rsync-extra-opts:
> sync-rsync-verify-jobs: 1
>
> Binary Repositories:
>
> gentoobinhost
> priority: 1
> sync-uri:
> https://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/amd64/binpackages/23.0/x86-64
>
> ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
> ACCEPT_LICENSE="@FREE"
> CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt"
> CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/gconf
> /etc/gentoo-release /etc/sandbox.d"
> CXXFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> DISTDIR="/var/cache/distfiles"
> ENV_UNSET="CARGO_HOME DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS DISPLAY
> GDK_PIXBUF_MODULE_FILE GOBIN GOPATH PERL5LIB PERL5OPT PERLPREFIX PERL_CORE
> PERL_MB_OPT PERL_MM_OPT XAUTHORITY XDG_CACHE_HOME XDG_CONFIG_HOME
> XDG_DATA_HOME XDG_RUNTIME_DIR XDG_STATE_HOME"
> FCFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-docompress binpkg-dostrip binpkg-logs
> binpkg-multi-instance buildpkg-live config-protect-if-modified distlocks
> ebuild-locks fixlafiles ipc-sandbox merge-sync merge-wait multilib-strict
> network-sandbox news parallel-fetch pid-sandbox pkgdir-index-trusted
> preserve-libs protect-owned qa-unresolved-soname-deps sandbox sfperms
> strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch
> userpriv usersandbox usersync xattr"
> FFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
> GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org;
> LANG="en_US.utf8"
> LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-z,pack-relative-relocs"
> LEX="flex"
> MAKEOPTS="-j7 -l8"
> PKGDIR="/var/cache/binpkgs"
> PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/"
> PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times
> --omit-dir-times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats
> --human-readable --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local
> --exclude=/packages --exclude=/.git"
> PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
> SHELL="/bin/bash"
> USE="X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo cdda cdr
> cet crypt cups dbus dri dts dvd dvdr elogind encode exif flac gdbm gif gpm
> gtk gui iconv icu ipv6 jpeg lcms libnotify libtirpc mad mng mp3 mp4 mpeg
> multilib ncurses nls ogg opengl openmp pam pango pcre pdf png policykit
> ppds qt5 readline sdl seccomp sound spell ssl startup-notification svg
> test-rust tiff truetype udev udisks unicode upower usb vorbis vulkan
> wxwidgets x264 xattr xcb xft xml xv xvid zlib" ABI_X86="64"
> ADA_TARGET="gcc_12" APACHE2_MODULES="authn_core authz_core socache_shmcb
> unixd actions alias auth_basic authn_anon authn_dbm authn_file authz_dbm
> authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi cgid
> dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir env expires ext_filter file_cache filter
> headers include info log_config logio mime mime_magic negotiation rewrite
> setenvif speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias"
> CALLIGRA_FEATURES="karbon sheets words" COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df interface irq
> load memory 

[gentoo-user] Off Topic - UPnP servers

[Mark Knecht]

Hi,
   Please excuse my off topic question. Does anyone here use a UPnP server
for audio files that they recommend as being particularly good?

   I'm a Plex user for video and have also ripped my CD collection. Plex
plays audio fine to TVs that have a Plex app but apparently sometimes
doesn't work well (as of yet untested by me) to network streaming players.

   While I don't know if the above will be a problem I've purchased a
network streaming player and will test it out over the weekend when it
arrives but if Plex doesn't work, or doesn't work well, then I'd like to
find a UPnP server that does. Browsing around on the web I find a number of
names:

1. Kodi – Home Theater Software
2. Universal Media Server
3. Jellyfin – Free Software Media System
4. DMS – UPnP DLNA Digital Media Server
5. Coherence – DLNA/UPnP Media Server
6. SimpleDLNA – Free DLNA Media Server
7. Gerbera – Free Media Server
8. ReadyMedia – MiniDLNA Media Server
9. Rygel – Home Media Solution

   Anyone have any first hand experience?

Thanks,
Mark

[gentoo-user] mirrorselect build failed

[Jude DaShiell]

Portage 3.0.63 (python 3.11.9-final-0, default/linux/amd64/23.0/desktop, 
gcc-13, glibc-2.39-r6, 6.6.7 x86_64)
=
 System Settings
=
System uname: 
Linux-6.6.7-x86_64-Intel-R-_Core-TM-_i7-10700K_CPU_@_3.80GHz-with-glibc2.39
KiB Mem:16156144 total,  14998556 free
KiB Swap:   40700884 total,  40700884 free
Timestamp of repository gentoo: Thu, 23 May 2024 00:45:00 +
Head commit of repository gentoo: 6731026bd416e5bd05a2b380cfdf6ff7e7134fe5
sh bash 5.1_p16-r6
ld GNU ld (Gentoo 2.42 p3) 2.42.0
app-misc/pax-utils:1.3.7::gentoo
app-shells/bash:   5.1_p16-r6::gentoo
dev-build/autoconf:2.71-r7::gentoo
dev-build/automake:1.16.5-r2::gentoo
dev-build/libtool: 2.4.7-r4::gentoo
dev-build/make:4.4.1-r1::gentoo
dev-build/meson:   1.4.0-r1::gentoo
dev-lang/perl: 5.38.2-r3::gentoo
dev-lang/python:   3.11.9::gentoo, 3.12.3::gentoo
sys-apps/baselayout:   2.15::gentoo
sys-apps/openrc:   0.54::gentoo
sys-apps/sandbox:  2.38::gentoo
sys-devel/binutils:2.42-r1::gentoo
sys-devel/binutils-config: 5.5::gentoo
sys-devel/gcc: 13.2.1_p20240210::gentoo
sys-devel/gcc-config:  2.11::gentoo
sys-kernel/linux-headers:  6.6-r1::gentoo (virtual/os-headers)
sys-libs/glibc:2.39-r6::gentoo
Repositories:

gentoo
location: /var/db/repos/gentoo
sync-type: rsync
sync-uri: rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage
priority: -1000
volatile: False
sync-rsync-verify-max-age: 3
sync-rsync-verify-metamanifest: yes
sync-rsync-extra-opts:
sync-rsync-verify-jobs: 1

Binary Repositories:

gentoobinhost
priority: 1
sync-uri: 
https://distfiles.gentoo.org/releases/amd64/binpackages/23.0/x86-64

ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
ACCEPT_LICENSE="@FREE"
CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/share/gnupg/qualified.txt"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/gconf 
/etc/gentoo-release /etc/sandbox.d"
CXXFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
DISTDIR="/var/cache/distfiles"
ENV_UNSET="CARGO_HOME DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS DISPLAY GDK_PIXBUF_MODULE_FILE 
GOBIN GOPATH PERL5LIB PERL5OPT PERLPREFIX PERL_CORE PERL_MB_OPT PERL_MM_OPT 
XAUTHORITY XDG_CACHE_HOME XDG_CONFIG_HOME XDG_DATA_HOME XDG_RUNTIME_DIR 
XDG_STATE_HOME"
FCFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-docompress binpkg-dostrip binpkg-logs 
binpkg-multi-instance buildpkg-live config-protect-if-modified distlocks 
ebuild-locks fixlafiles ipc-sandbox merge-sync merge-wait multilib-strict 
network-sandbox news parallel-fetch pid-sandbox pkgdir-index-trusted 
preserve-libs protect-owned qa-unresolved-soname-deps sandbox sfperms strict 
unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans userfetch userpriv 
usersandbox usersync xattr"
FFLAGS="-O2 -pipe -native"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://distfiles.gentoo.org;
LANG="en_US.utf8"
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-z,pack-relative-relocs"
LEX="flex"
MAKEOPTS="-j7 -l8"
PKGDIR="/var/cache/binpkgs"
PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times 
--omit-dir-times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats 
--human-readable --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local 
--exclude=/packages --exclude=/.git"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
SHELL="/bin/bash"
USE="X a52 aac acl acpi alsa amd64 bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo cdda cdr cet 
crypt cups dbus dri dts dvd dvdr elogind encode exif flac gdbm gif gpm gtk gui 
iconv icu ipv6 jpeg lcms libnotify libtirpc mad mng mp3 mp4 mpeg multilib 
ncurses nls ogg opengl openmp pam pango pcre pdf png policykit ppds qt5 
readline sdl seccomp sound spell ssl startup-notification svg test-rust tiff 
truetype udev udisks unicode upower usb vorbis vulkan wxwidgets x264 xattr xcb 
xft xml xv xvid zlib" ABI_X86="64" ADA_TARGET="gcc_12" 
APACHE2_MODULES="authn_core authz_core socache_shmcb unixd actions alias 
auth_basic authn_anon authn_dbm authn_file authz_dbm authz_groupfile authz_host 
authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi cgid dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir 
env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers include info log_config logio 
mime mime_magic negotiation rewrite setenvif speling status unique_id userdir 
usertrack vhost_alias" CALLIGRA_FEATURES="karbon sheets words" 
COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df interface irq load memory rrdtool swap syslog" 
CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext sse sse2" ELIBC="glibc" GPSD_PROTOCOLS="ashtech aivdm 
earthmate evermore fv18 garmin garmintxt gpsclock greis isync itrax mtk3301 
ntrip navcom oceanserver oncore rtcm104v2 rtcm104v3 sirf skytraq superstar2 
tsip tripmate tnt ublox" INPUT_DEVICES="libinput" KERNEL="linux" 
LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb text" 
LUA_SINGLE_TARGET="lua5-1" LUA_TARGETS="lua5-1" 

Re: [gentoo-user] 100% CPU load in qtwebengine

[Michael]

On Thursday, 23 May 2024 14:07:16 BST Peter Humphrey wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> On this box I have this:
> 
> # grep '\-j' /etc/portage/make.conf
> EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs --load-average=4 [...] "
> MAKEOPTS="-j4 -l4"
> 
> That seems to work well, except for a 20s period at the beginning of
> emerging qtwebengine, during which CPU load goes to 100%, according to
> gkrellm.
> 
> It seems that the ebuild runs a process other than make, ignoring make.conf.
> Does anyone here know what that might be, and why it disregards my
> preferences?

Does this happen while  the source archive is being decompressed?

You can check in top (press 'c' then 'Shift+v') to see what command/child 
process is eating up CPU time.  Use Page Up/Down to navigate through the long 
list.

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[gentoo-user] 100% CPU load in qtwebengine

[Peter Humphrey]

Hello list,

On this box I have this:

# grep '\-j' /etc/portage/make.conf
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--jobs --load-average=4 [...] "
MAKEOPTS="-j4 -l4"

That seems to work well, except for a 20s period at the beginning of emerging 
qtwebengine, during which CPU load goes to 100%, according to gkrellm.

It seems that the ebuild runs a process other than make, ignoring make.conf. 
Does anyone here know what that might be, and why it disregards my 
preferences?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: [gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

[James Massa]

Anyone know anything about top secret mind control devices?

 

The devices are suspected to be in haymarket melbourne australia and can control peoples brains with audio and visual data?

 

if anyone knows anyone from darpa or other agency maybe let them now

 
 

Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 at 3:18 AM
From: "Jude DaShiell" 
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

Thanks, if I get to that point I'll remember that number!

--
Jude 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
Please use in that order."
Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Wed, 22 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> Or, more appropriately if you do not use a desktop then please select profile
> No. 21:
>
> [21] default/linux/amd64/23.0 (stable)
>
>
> On Wednesday, 22 May 2024 16:05:09 BST Michael wrote:
> > Ah! OK, this probably explains it.
> >
> > The latest and now default Gentoo profile is no longer 17.1, but 23.0,
> > which uses a merged /usr directory structure.
> >
> > Consequently, select profile 23:
> >
> > [23] default/linux/amd64/23.0/desktop (stable)
> >
> > On Wednesday, 22 May 2024 15:53:11 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > I used bash but don't know that there's a problem with bash.
> > > I burnt the whole system to the ground and still have the verified and
> > > validated stage3 file available on my system.
> > > Once stage3 is installed was the tee utility included on stage3? If so I
> > > can capture what's going on. When I ran emerge-webrsync again I was told
> > > bzip2 couldn't be found so if that was installed by stage3 there may be
> > > other problems.
> > > I'm going with efi since that's the computer default and openrc since
> > > that's gentoo's original default in my choices for the system. On the
> > > profile I'm going for the default 1 which is I think a command line
> > > interface since that's where I live most of the time.
>
>
 

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

[Jude DaShiell]

Thanks, if I get to that point I'll remember that number!

-- 
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Wed, 22 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> Or, more appropriately if you do not use a desktop then please select profile
> No. 21:
>
> [21]  default/linux/amd64/23.0 (stable)
>
>
> On Wednesday, 22 May 2024 16:05:09 BST Michael wrote:
> > Ah! OK, this probably explains it.
> >
> > The latest and now default Gentoo profile is no longer 17.1,  but 23.0,
> > which uses a merged /usr directory structure.
> >
> > Consequently, select profile 23:
> >
> > [23] default/linux/amd64/23.0/desktop (stable)
> >
> > On Wednesday, 22 May 2024 15:53:11 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > I used bash but don't know that there's a problem with bash.
> > > I burnt the whole system to the ground and still have the verified and
> > > validated stage3 file available on my system.
> > > Once stage3 is installed was the tee utility included on stage3?  If so I
> > > can capture what's going on.  When I ran emerge-webrsync again I was told
> > > bzip2 couldn't be found  so if that was installed by stage3 there may be
> > > other problems.
> > > I'm going with efi since that's the computer default and openrc since
> > > that's gentoo's original default in my choices for the system.  On the
> > > profile I'm going for the default 1 which is I think a command line
> > > interface since that's where I live most of the time.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

[Michael]

Or, more appropriately if you do not use a desktop then please select profile 
No. 21:

[21]  default/linux/amd64/23.0 (stable)


On Wednesday, 22 May 2024 16:05:09 BST Michael wrote:
> Ah! OK, this probably explains it.
> 
> The latest and now default Gentoo profile is no longer 17.1,  but 23.0,
> which uses a merged /usr directory structure.
> 
> Consequently, select profile 23:
> 
> [23] default/linux/amd64/23.0/desktop (stable)
> 
> On Wednesday, 22 May 2024 15:53:11 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > I used bash but don't know that there's a problem with bash.
> > I burnt the whole system to the ground and still have the verified and
> > validated stage3 file available on my system.
> > Once stage3 is installed was the tee utility included on stage3?  If so I
> > can capture what's going on.  When I ran emerge-webrsync again I was told
> > bzip2 couldn't be found  so if that was installed by stage3 there may be
> > other problems.
> > I'm going with efi since that's the computer default and openrc since
> > that's gentoo's original default in my choices for the system.  On the
> > profile I'm going for the default 1 which is I think a command line
> > interface since that's where I live most of the time.



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Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

[Michael]

Ah! OK, this probably explains it.

The latest and now default Gentoo profile is no longer 17.1,  but 23.0, which 
uses a merged /usr directory structure.

Consequently, select profile 23:

[23] default/linux/amd64/23.0/desktop (stable)


On Wednesday, 22 May 2024 15:53:11 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> I used bash but don't know that there's a problem with bash.
> I burnt the whole system to the ground and still have the verified and
> validated stage3 file available on my system.
> Once stage3 is installed was the tee utility included on stage3?  If so I
> can capture what's going on.  When I ran emerge-webrsync again I was told
> bzip2 couldn't be found  so if that was installed by stage3 there may be
> other problems.
> I'm going with efi since that's the computer default and openrc since
> that's gentoo's original default in my choices for the system.  On the
> profile I'm going for the default 1 which is I think a command line
> interface since that's where I live most of the time.



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

[Jude DaShiell]

I used bash but don't know that there's a problem with bash.
I burnt the whole system to the ground and still have the verified and
validated stage3 file available on my system.
Once stage3 is installed was the tee utility included on stage3?  If so I
can capture what's going on.  When I ran emerge-webrsync again I was told
bzip2 couldn't be found  so if that was installed by stage3 there may be
other problems.
I'm going with efi since that's the computer default and openrc since
that's gentoo's original default in my choices for the system.  On the
profile I'm going for the default 1 which is I think a command line
interface since that's where I live most of the time.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Wed, 22 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> You can check while within your chroot, if /dev/fd is a symlink to the
> directory /proc/self/fd.
>
> If the above is correct, then there may be a problem with your shell.  Check
> what you get when you run:
>
> # echo $SHELL
>
> or,
>
> # ps -p $$
>
> Bash should work fine, but from the little I understand about zsh it uses
> slightly different process substitution than bash.  If your shell is not bash
> try changing to it, to see if it makes a difference:
>
> chsh -s /bin/bash
>
> I don't know if this is the cause of your problem, but it's worth a try.
>
>
> On Wednesday, 22 May 2024 14:45:40 BST Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> > On Wed, 2024-05-22 at 09:40 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > > Yes, this is during installation.
> > > I did type:
> > > mount --rbind /dev /mnt/gentoo/dev
> > > I was outside of chroot at the time but that's all I did with dev before
> > > running emerge-webrsync.
> >
> > Ok, that was my one guess. I'm out of ideas, sorry.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

[Michael]

You can check while within your chroot, if /dev/fd is a symlink to the 
directory /proc/self/fd.

If the above is correct, then there may be a problem with your shell.  Check 
what you get when you run:

# echo $SHELL

or,

# ps -p $$

Bash should work fine, but from the little I understand about zsh it uses 
slightly different process substitution than bash.  If your shell is not bash 
try changing to it, to see if it makes a difference:

chsh -s /bin/bash

I don't know if this is the cause of your problem, but it's worth a try.


On Wednesday, 22 May 2024 14:45:40 BST Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> On Wed, 2024-05-22 at 09:40 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > Yes, this is during installation.
> > I did type:
> > mount --rbind /dev /mnt/gentoo/dev
> > I was outside of chroot at the time but that's all I did with dev before
> > running emerge-webrsync.
> 
> Ok, that was my one guess. I'm out of ideas, sorry.



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Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

[Michael Orlitzky]

On Wed, 2024-05-22 at 09:40 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Yes, this is during installation.
> I did type:
> mount --rbind /dev /mnt/gentoo/dev
> I was outside of chroot at the time but that's all I did with dev before
> running emerge-webrsync.
> 

Ok, that was my one guess. I'm out of ideas, sorry.

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

[Jude DaShiell]

Yes, this is during installation.
I did type:
mount --rbind /dev /mnt/gentoo/dev
I was outside of chroot at the time but that's all I did with dev before
running emerge-webrsync.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Wed, 22 May 2024, Michael Orlitzky wrote:

> Is this during install? Maybe forgot to bind-mount /dev from the real
> system into your chroot?
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

[Michael Orlitzky]

Is this during install? Maybe forgot to bind-mount /dev from the real
system into your chroot?

[gentoo-user] emerge-webrsync error

[Jude DaShiell]

This one is the last two lines of output.

Failed to validate a sane '/dev'.
bash process substitution doesn't work; this may be an indication of a
broken '/dev/fd'.

What did I do wrong?


-- 
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo starting with stage3

[Jude DaShiell]

Ok in this case I'm using slint to do the install with stage3 so those
lines are needed.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

On Tue, 21 May 2024, Michael wrote:

> The line to test if a symlink exists to /run/shm/ from /dev/shm is only needed
> when you use non-Gentoo live media to install your system.
>
> With the Gentoo installation media, whether you use the minimal CD or the
> admincd, such an action is not needed.
>
>
> On Tuesday, 21 May 2024 17:52:01 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > I am installing gentoo to a different disk on the machine and the
> > install-x86_64-minimal disk is not fit for purpose since I cannot get
> > espeak reading the screen as I go through an installation.
> > Most things are pointed at /mnt/gentoo on my system when doing commands.
> > However in lines where proc is mounted in the handbook a line test -L
> > /dev/shm  && rm /dev/shm && mkdir /dev/shm
> > appears.  This likely effects the machine until the next boot and has no
> > effect on /mnt/gentoo.
> > Is this a relic for those installing from install-x86_64-minimal disks and
> > only applies to them?
> > I'm not doing any of the slave entries since I figure to install with
> > openrc not systemd.
> >
> >
> > --
> >  Jude 
> >  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
> >  Please use in that order."
> >  Ed Howdershelt 1940.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo starting with stage3

[Michael]

The line to test if a symlink exists to /run/shm/ from /dev/shm is only needed 
when you use non-Gentoo live media to install your system.

With the Gentoo installation media, whether you use the minimal CD or the 
admincd, such an action is not needed.


On Tuesday, 21 May 2024 17:52:01 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> I am installing gentoo to a different disk on the machine and the
> install-x86_64-minimal disk is not fit for purpose since I cannot get
> espeak reading the screen as I go through an installation.
> Most things are pointed at /mnt/gentoo on my system when doing commands.
> However in lines where proc is mounted in the handbook a line test -L
> /dev/shm  && rm /dev/shm && mkdir /dev/shm
> appears.  This likely effects the machine until the next boot and has no
> effect on /mnt/gentoo.
> Is this a relic for those installing from install-x86_64-minimal disks and
> only applies to them?
> I'm not doing any of the slave entries since I figure to install with
> openrc not systemd.
> 
> 
> --
>  Jude 
>  "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
>  Please use in that order."
>  Ed Howdershelt 1940.



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

[gentoo-user] gentoo starting with stage3

[Jude DaShiell]

I am installing gentoo to a different disk on the machine and the
install-x86_64-minimal disk is not fit for purpose since I cannot get
espeak reading the screen as I go through an installation.
Most things are pointed at /mnt/gentoo on my system when doing commands.
However in lines where proc is mounted in the handbook a line test -L
/dev/shm  && rm /dev/shm && mkdir /dev/shm
appears.  This likely effects the machine until the next boot and has no
effect on /mnt/gentoo.
Is this a relic for those installing from install-x86_64-minimal disks and
only applies to them?
I'm not doing any of the slave entries since I figure to install with
openrc not systemd.


--
 Jude 
 "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo.
 Please use in that order."
 Ed Howdershelt 1940.

[gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-21, Dale  wrote:

>> Here's my udev rules file that defines my network interface names
>> for the machine I'm on at the moment:
>>
>> --/etc/udev/rules.d/70-my-persistent-net.rules---
>> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="2c:f0:5d:6f:10:af", 
>> NAME="net0"
>> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="00:1b:21:b1:d1:e9", 
>> NAME="net1"
>> -
>
> Examples do help a lot.  I do use the enp* naming scheme.  My
> understanding, that is the "new" way.

The suffix for those enp* names comes from the PCI bus subsystem based
on bus number, slot number, etc.  [Yes, slot number apparently does
change based on what PCIe cards are present. No, that doesn't make
sense to me either]

> Based on your config, I would need to change the NAME= to enp* names
> and that would correct that.

I suppose you could, but I would not use enp* names. Those could
conflict with the autogenerated names.

> Where you have ATTR, is that a quote or did you edit to remove a
> number, MAC address, IP or something? 

What I posted is exactly what's in the file
(without the --- delimiters).

Here's more documentation:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Udev
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/udev
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration#Change_interface_name

[The arch Wiki is always a good fallback if the Gentoo manual/Wiki
don't have what you're looking for.]

> If it is one of those, where do I find that info?  I checked
> ifconfig and didn't see a MAC address.  I also checked lspci -v. 
> I'm not sure where you get the needed info from.   BTW, right now,
> I'm on my main rig. 

The only thing you need to change from my example would be the mac
address(es) (e.g. 2c:f0:5d:6f:10:af) and the names (e.g. net0).

> I have the package net-misc/networkmanager installed.  Most likely
> pulled in by something else.  Could I use it to configure this? 

Possibly, I don't use networkmanager and don't know how it works on
Gentoo.  I use the default Gentoo netifrc scheme
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Netifrc.

> I also have KDE installed on the NAS box, it is also a backup rig in
> case my main rig dies.  It may have a GUI that I could use.  I'm not
> opposed to the command line way tho.  Biggest thing, copy and paste
> would be nice. 

I don't know much of anything about KDE.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Dale]

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2024-05-21, Dale  wrote:
>
>
>>> If you want consisent network device names (even when you change
>>> hardware), you need to either
>>>
>>>  1. create udev rules that assign device names based on MAC addresses.
>>>
>>>  2. use a network configuration subsystem that assigns device names
>>> and configurations based on MAC addresses.
>> Do you, or someone else, know of a good howto on how to use MAC
>> addresses like that?  Given this thing is usually remotely accessed, I
>> really need it to be consistent with or without the card.  Maybe you
>> have a bookmarked link saved somewhere.  I'm on openrc to.  I'll google
>> around but you, or someone else here, may have a really good and simple
>> howto link. 
> The udev way is probably the most universal. Some distros will create
> udev rules automagically so that network interface names persist over
> hardware changes, but Gentoo doesn't.  Here's my udev rules file that
> defines my network interface names for the machine I'm on at the moment:
>
> --/etc/udev/rules.d/70-my-persistent-net.rules---
> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="2c:f0:5d:6f:10:af", 
> NAME="net0"
> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="00:1b:21:b1:d1:e9", 
> NAME="net1"
> -
>
> I used to use "ethN" instead of "netN", but those names are used
> internally by the kernel during startup, and people were warned not to
> use them in udev rules because of certain race conditions that might
> happen.  I never ran into problems using "ethN" names, but eventually
> decided not to push my luck.
>
> The network configuration route depends on what network configuration
> (and possibly init) system you use.  I know how to do it that way on
> Ubunutu (which is systemd based) using netplan...
>
> --
> Grant

Examples do help a lot.  I do use the enp* naming scheme.  My
understanding, that is the "new" way.  Based on your config, I would
need to change the NAME= to enp* names and that would correct that. 
Where you have ATTR, is that a quote or did you edit to remove a number,
MAC address, IP or something?  If it is one of those, where do I find
that info?  I checked ifconfig and didn't see a MAC address.  I also
checked lspci -v.  I'm not sure where you get the needed info from. 
BTW, right now, I'm on my main rig. 

I have the package net-misc/networkmanager installed.  Most likely
pulled in by something else.  Could I use it to configure this?  I also
have KDE installed on the NAS box, it is also a backup rig in case my
main rig dies.  It may have a GUI that I could use.  I'm not opposed to
the command line way tho.  Biggest thing, copy and paste would be nice. 
;-) 

I'm trying to hoe weeds in my garden at the moment.  Hoe a little, take
a break, then repeat.  I did sharpen the edge on my hoe tho.  If I touch
it, it's cut.  Makes it a lot easier. 

Thanks. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-21, Dale  wrote:


>> If you want consisent network device names (even when you change
>> hardware), you need to either
>>
>>  1. create udev rules that assign device names based on MAC addresses.
>>
>>  2. use a network configuration subsystem that assigns device names
>> and configurations based on MAC addresses.
>
> Do you, or someone else, know of a good howto on how to use MAC
> addresses like that?  Given this thing is usually remotely accessed, I
> really need it to be consistent with or without the card.  Maybe you
> have a bookmarked link saved somewhere.  I'm on openrc to.  I'll google
> around but you, or someone else here, may have a really good and simple
> howto link. 

The udev way is probably the most universal. Some distros will create
udev rules automagically so that network interface names persist over
hardware changes, but Gentoo doesn't.  Here's my udev rules file that
defines my network interface names for the machine I'm on at the moment:

--/etc/udev/rules.d/70-my-persistent-net.rules---
SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="2c:f0:5d:6f:10:af", NAME="net0"
SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", ATTR{address}=="00:1b:21:b1:d1:e9", NAME="net1"
-

I used to use "ethN" instead of "netN", but those names are used
internally by the kernel during startup, and people were warned not to
use them in udev rules because of certain race conditions that might
happen.  I never ran into problems using "ethN" names, but eventually
decided not to push my luck.

The network configuration route depends on what network configuration
(and possibly init) system you use.  I know how to do it that way on
Ubunutu (which is systemd based) using netplan...

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Dale]

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2024-05-21, Dale  wrote:
>
>> So they both show up.  When I try to start the network, it says:
>>
>> ERROR: Interface enp3s0 does not exist.
> Are you sure the network interface name hasn't changed?  What does
> "ifconfig -a" or "ip addr" show?
>
> After booting up, what does "dmesg | grep enp" show?
>
>> Ensure that you have loaded the correct kernel module for your hardware.
>>
>>
>> I find that odd since it obviously sees the card.  It's in the list
>> above after all.  So, it sees the card but can't see it.  0_o  Odd. 
> Identifying the presense of a PCI card and creating the device by
> which is is accessed are two different things.
>
>> I tried different slots for the SATA card and they all do the same
>> thing.  Wouldn't each slot have a different interrupt?
> No.  If cards are using legacy interrupts (most do) there are four
> interrupts (A,B,C,D) that are shared by all cards (just like there
> always were). Newer cards and motherboards can use something called
> MSI or MSI-X interrupts that aren't shared, but in my experience the
> use of those isn't very widespread.
>
>> It was at this point, I checked your suggestion.  I looked and noticed
>> that the network card was now at slot 4 not slot 3 like it used to be. 
>> So, I created a new link to slot 4.  The network came up.  So,
>> basically, it changed names as you suggested. I thought the purpose of
>> the enp* names was that they are consistent. 
> They are consistent through reboots.  They are not consistent if you
> change hardware.
>
>> Adding or removing cards wouldn't change the names of cards, like
>> network cards.
> Yes, it can.
>
>> It seems, in this case at least, the names can change.  Any way to
>> make adding the card not change this??  I tend to not have a monitor
>> or keyboard connected to this rig.
> If you want consisent network device names (even when you change
> hardware), you need to either
>
>  1. create udev rules that assign device names based on MAC addresses.
>
>  2. use a network configuration subsystem that assigns device names
> and configurations based on MAC addresses.
>
> --
> Grant

Do you, or someone else, know of a good howto on how to use MAC
addresses like that?  Given this thing is usually remotely accessed, I
really need it to be consistent with or without the card.  Maybe you
have a bookmarked link saved somewhere.  I'm on openrc to.  I'll google
around but you, or someone else here, may have a really good and simple
howto link. 

Well, learned something in the past couple days.  Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-21, Dale  wrote:

> So they both show up.  When I try to start the network, it says:
>
> ERROR: Interface enp3s0 does not exist.

Are you sure the network interface name hasn't changed?  What does
"ifconfig -a" or "ip addr" show?

After booting up, what does "dmesg | grep enp" show?

> Ensure that you have loaded the correct kernel module for your hardware.
>
>
> I find that odd since it obviously sees the card.  It's in the list
> above after all.  So, it sees the card but can't see it.  0_o  Odd. 

Identifying the presense of a PCI card and creating the device by
which is is accessed are two different things.

> I tried different slots for the SATA card and they all do the same
> thing.  Wouldn't each slot have a different interrupt?

No.  If cards are using legacy interrupts (most do) there are four
interrupts (A,B,C,D) that are shared by all cards (just like there
always were). Newer cards and motherboards can use something called
MSI or MSI-X interrupts that aren't shared, but in my experience the
use of those isn't very widespread.

> It was at this point, I checked your suggestion.  I looked and noticed
> that the network card was now at slot 4 not slot 3 like it used to be. 
> So, I created a new link to slot 4.  The network came up.  So,
> basically, it changed names as you suggested. I thought the purpose of
> the enp* names was that they are consistent. 

They are consistent through reboots.  They are not consistent if you
change hardware.

> Adding or removing cards wouldn't change the names of cards, like
> network cards.

Yes, it can.

> It seems, in this case at least, the names can change.  Any way to
> make adding the card not change this??  I tend to not have a monitor
> or keyboard connected to this rig.

If you want consisent network device names (even when you change
hardware), you need to either

 1. create udev rules that assign device names based on MAC addresses.

 2. use a network configuration subsystem that assigns device names
and configurations based on MAC addresses.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Neil Bothwick]

On Tue, 21 May 2024 06:51:51 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:

>  I usually stick e*
> in my networkd config for the device name on single-NIC hosts.  If you
> have multiple NICs then I maybe there is a better way to go about it -
> maybe there is a network manager that can use more data from the NIC
> itself to track them.

systemd .network definitions can match on MAC address, if that helps.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

... "I dropped my toothpaste," Tom said, Crestfallen.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[karl]

Dale:
...
> ERROR: Interface enp3s0 does not exist.
> Ensure that you have loaded the correct kernel module for your hardware.
...

 Do:
cat /proc/net/dev

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Rich Freeman]

On Tue, May 21, 2024 at 6:38 AM Dale  wrote:
>
> So, I created a new link to slot 4.  The network came up.  So,
> basically, it changed names as you suggested. I thought the purpose of
> the enp* names was that they are consistent.  Adding or removing cards
> wouldn't change the names of cards, like network cards.

Nope, persistent names are only persistent as long as there are no
hardware changes.

Under the old system if you had 10 NICs on a host, on any reboot some
of them could change names, at least in theory.  Under the new system
if you have 10 NICs on one host and don't touch the hardware, the
names will never change.

Under the old system if you had 1 NIC in a host, the name would never
change even if the hardware did change.  Under the new system if you
have 1 NIC in a host, the name could change if the hardware changes.

It is basically a tradeoff, which makes life much better if you have
multiple NICs, and marginally worse if you have only one.  However,
hardware changes than can cause a name change are probably rare, and
if you have only one NIC then ideally your network manager can just
use wildcards to not care so much about the name.  I usually stick e*
in my networkd config for the device name on single-NIC hosts.  If you
have multiple NICs then I maybe there is a better way to go about it -
maybe there is a network manager that can use more data from the NIC
itself to track them.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Dale]

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2024-05-20, Dale  wrote:
>
> A 3.0 card is supposed to work fine in a 2.0 slot.
>
>> You, or anyone, have any idea why that card would kill my network? 
>> I suspect the card itself is fine.  It did see the drive.  I just
>> need the internet to work since it may be used in a NAS rig.
> Is it causing the network interface to not show up at all in lspci?
>
> Is it causing the network device name to change?
>
> Or is the network interface still detected, still named the same, and
> just doesn't send/receive packets?
>
> It could be some sort of interrupt sharing problem. Even with PCI
> express, cards still sometimes have to share interrupts.  Intel/IBM
> made that bad decision 45 years ago, and we're still suffering because
> of it.  If that the problem, sometimes you can avoid it by physically
> rearranging the cards.
>
> The later PCI hosts/boards finally came up with a way to avoid it, but
> a lot of cards still don't support that.
>
> --
> Grant


It does show up in lspci.  This is the output of lspci -tv.  The SATA
card is about 4 down.  The network is about 6 down. 



-[:00]-+-00.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RX780/RX790
Host Bridge
   +-02.0-[01]--+-00.0  NVIDIA Corporation GK107 [NVS 510]
   |    \-00.1  NVIDIA Corporation GK107 HDMI Audio
Controller
   +-07.0-[02]00.0  ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1166 Serial
ATA Controller
   +-09.0-[03]00.0  NEC Corporation uPD720200 USB 3.0 Host
Controller
   +-0a.0-[04]00.0  Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
   +-11.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 SATA Controller [AHCI mode]
   +-12.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB OHCI0 Controller
   +-12.1  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SB7x0 USB
OHCI1 Controller
   +-12.2  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB EHCI Controller
   +-13.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB OHCI0 Controller
   +-13.1  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SB7x0 USB
OHCI1 Controller
   +-13.2  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB EHCI Controller
   +-14.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SBx00 SMBus
Controller
   +-14.1  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 IDE Controller
   +-14.2  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] SBx00 Azalia
(Intel HDA)
   +-14.3  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 LPC host controller
   +-14.4-[05]0e.0  Texas Instruments TSB43AB23
IEEE-1394a-2000 Controller (PHY/Link)
   +-14.5  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]
SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB OHCI2 Controller
   +-18.0  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h
Processor HyperTransport Configuration
   +-18.1  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h
Processor Address Map
   +-18.2  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h
Processor DRAM Controller
   +-18.3  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h
Processor Miscellaneous Control
   \-18.4  Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h
Processor Link Control



So they both show up.  When I try to start the network, it says:


ERROR: Interface enp3s0 does not exist.
Ensure that you have loaded the correct kernel module for your hardware.


I find that odd since it obviously sees the card.  It's in the list
above after all.  So, it sees the card but can't see it.  0_o  Odd. 

I tried different slots for the SATA card and they all do the same
thing.  Wouldn't each slot have a different interrupt?  It's been ages
since I had to deal with any of that.  Mostly it was on IDE drives and
the master/slave thing.  Oh, the other odd thing, it sees drives
connected to the SATA card as well. 

It was at this point, I checked your suggestion.  I looked and noticed
that the network card was now at slot 4 not slot 3 like it used to be. 
So, I created a new link to slot 4.  The network came up.  So,
basically, it changed names as you suggested. I thought the purpose of
the enp* names was that they are consistent.  Adding or removing cards
wouldn't change the names of cards, like network cards.  It seems, in
this case at least, the names can change.  Any way to make adding the
card not change this??  I tend to not have a monitor or keyboard
connected to this rig.

This is great tho.  I now have one extra SATA card already here. 
Another that I ordered a couple weeks ago that is still on the way.  I
also have two more from Amazon on the way.  Two 10 port cards, two 8
port ones.  That's 36 drives.  I think I'm all stocked up on SATA cards
now.  I need more hard drives, still.  According to du, I have 67TBs of
data here not including backups.  0_0

We got it all working.  It never occurred to me that the slot number
would change.  

[gentoo-user] Re: PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-20, Dale  wrote:

A 3.0 card is supposed to work fine in a 2.0 slot.

> You, or anyone, have any idea why that card would kill my network? 
> I suspect the card itself is fine.  It did see the drive.  I just
> need the internet to work since it may be used in a NAS rig.

Is it causing the network interface to not show up at all in lspci?

Is it causing the network device name to change?

Or is the network interface still detected, still named the same, and
just doesn't send/receive packets?

It could be some sort of interrupt sharing problem. Even with PCI
express, cards still sometimes have to share interrupts.  Intel/IBM
made that bad decision 45 years ago, and we're still suffering because
of it.  If that the problem, sometimes you can avoid it by physically
rearranging the cards.

The later PCI hosts/boards finally came up with a way to avoid it, but
a lot of cards still don't support that.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Mark Knecht]

> You could be right.  I did find one interesting post in my google search,
one person updated their BIOS and fixed the issue.  Pretty sure mine is up
to date.  Given the age of the mobo, I doubt they even think of releasing a
new BIOS for that old thing.
>
> Anyway, I found a card with a Marvel chip instead of ASMedia.  It also
says in the description that it is PCIe v2.0.  I'm hoping it will work.
>
> I need to read up more on lspci.  I mostly use the -k option to show
kernel drivers in use for each chip thing.  I've never used the -t option.
Gonna go play with that a bit.
>
-k is good. -n, -t, -v come in handy. You can also dump
the PCI config space to look at address mapping if that
comes up. (And might be useful if it turns out the SATA
card and network controller are both identifiable but
somehow overlapping each other, which would be VERY
bad if it happened)

Anyway, if you dig in and provide data someone here
can help where your background isn't deep enough
or it gets confusing.

Re: [gentoo-user] PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 12:09 PM Dale  > wrote:
> >
> 
> > First, I thought cards were backward compatible?  You could stick a 3.0
> > into a 2.0 slot and it would just run as a 2.0 and vice versa.  I know
> > the mobo is 2.0.  It does recognize the drive but seems to nuke the
> > ethernet somehow.  I looked, there is no switches on the card.  I don't
> > see a way to adjust how it works or anything.
> >
> 
>
> You've gotten a number of good answers so I won't duplicate any
> of that, but as someone who worked designing PCI and PCI Express
> hardware I make a couple of observations:
>
> 1) A hardware spec can be backward compatible but if BIOS 
> doesn't, or didn't at the time, do everything correctly, then a 
> PCI Express chip mounted on an adapter card and misprogrammed
> by BIOS can cause a lot of problems.
>
> 2) To me, this problem smells of the sort of thing we used to
> see when BIOS (or potentially the OS) didn't handle PCI
> Bridges correctly.
>
> The way a lot of this Wide PCI Express to multiple slow
> interfaces work is by embedding a PCI Express Bridge 
> inside the chip and then branching out to independant 
> PCI Express (or just PCI) narrow devices inside the chip
> and behind the bridge. 
>
> You can see a representation of this stuff using the 
> commands:
>
> lspci 
> lspci -t -v (or -vvv) 
>
> The numbers you see are the PCI device number BIOS
> has given each device. If a device number has a dot 
> something value then these are subdevices inside the
> chip. When you see the depth getting large and you 
> start to see sub-busses you are actually getting there
> through a bridge. 
>
> The problem is a lot of old BIOS's didn't handle bridges
> correctly, and a lot of bridges didn't work correctly, and
> the PCI Bridge specs were changing along the way.
>
> If you look at the tree structure with the card out and card 
> in the machine then you may find out that there is a
> problem, such as the network controller not showing up.
>
> As the network controller is likely in the motherboard
> chipset it is possible that a PCI Express network adapter
> will do better, but that's sort of hunt and peck.
>
> Best wishes, good luck and happy hunting,
> Mark

You could be right.  I did find one interesting post in my google
search, one person updated their BIOS and fixed the issue.  Pretty sure
mine is up to date.  Given the age of the mobo, I doubt they even think
of releasing a new BIOS for that old thing. 

Anyway, I found a card with a Marvel chip instead of ASMedia.  It also
says in the description that it is PCIe v2.0.  I'm hoping it will work. 

I need to read up more on lspci.  I mostly use the -k option to show
kernel drivers in use for each chip thing.  I've never used the -t
option.  Gonna go play with that a bit. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  I had started saving up for my new rig again.  Tank on my toilet
cracked and started leaking.  Pardon the pun, the money I had saved up,
got flushed.  :-(  Got a new toilet tho.  I keep playing with the lid. 
It closes itself.  O_O 

Re: [gentoo-user] PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Mark Knecht]

On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 12:09 PM Dale  wrote:
>

> First, I thought cards were backward compatible?  You could stick a 3.0
> into a 2.0 slot and it would just run as a 2.0 and vice versa.  I know
> the mobo is 2.0.  It does recognize the drive but seems to nuke the
> ethernet somehow.  I looked, there is no switches on the card.  I don't
> see a way to adjust how it works or anything.
>


You've gotten a number of good answers so I won't duplicate any
of that, but as someone who worked designing PCI and PCI Express
hardware I make a couple of observations:

1) A hardware spec can be backward compatible but if BIOS
doesn't, or didn't at the time, do everything correctly, then a
PCI Express chip mounted on an adapter card and misprogrammed
by BIOS can cause a lot of problems.

2) To me, this problem smells of the sort of thing we used to
see when BIOS (or potentially the OS) didn't handle PCI
Bridges correctly.

The way a lot of this Wide PCI Express to multiple slow
interfaces work is by embedding a PCI Express Bridge
inside the chip and then branching out to independant
PCI Express (or just PCI) narrow devices inside the chip
and behind the bridge.

You can see a representation of this stuff using the
commands:

lspci
lspci -t -v (or -vvv)

The numbers you see are the PCI device number BIOS
has given each device. If a device number has a dot
something value then these are subdevices inside the
chip. When you see the depth getting large and you
start to see sub-busses you are actually getting there
through a bridge.

The problem is a lot of old BIOS's didn't handle bridges
correctly, and a lot of bridges didn't work correctly, and
the PCI Bridge specs were changing along the way.

If you look at the tree structure with the card out and card
in the machine then you may find out that there is a
problem, such as the network controller not showing up.

As the network controller is likely in the motherboard
chipset it is possible that a PCI Express network adapter
will do better, but that's sort of hunt and peck.

Best wishes, good luck and happy hunting,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Dale]

mad.scientist.at.la...@tutanota.com wrote:
> You probably need to adjust the bios, possibly starting with the fail safe or 
> optimized defaults and then changing what you need to after everything is 
> basically working.
>

I tried it and same thing.  It was a good thought tho.  I tend to run
the defaults, except disabling the splash screen thing, but still, it
could have helped. 

I noticed a new message right after the BIOS post and Grub loading.  It
says, typing by hand from a video. 

Warning: Have option ROM can not be invoke (Vendor ID: 1B21h, Deivce ID:

Typo is theirs.  It should be device I think.  Also, very last bit is
under a thing the monitor puts on the screen right after it powers up. 
It never shows what's under it.  I think it is translated from another
language.  I looked up the ID and it is the vendor for the chip on the
SATA card, ASMedia.  So, pretty sure that is related to the SATA card. 
After that message, it usually lists all the drives it sees.  It doesn't
list anything but the drive with the OS on it.  My main rig does the
same.  It's only when the kernel loads and Gentoo starts booting using
its driver that the drives connected to the card are seen.  I have to
make sure to put my DVD drive and OS drive on the mobo itself.  I also
put the drive with /home on the mobo.  The other data drives that are
not needed until I login and decrypt them are connected to the SATA
cards.  It's just how it works with this mobo, maybe all of them. 

Anyway, BIOS reset didn't help.  Maybe that error above will give
someone a clue.  Google isn't much help either.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[mad . scientist . at . large]

You probably need to adjust the bios, possibly starting with the fail safe or 
optimized defaults and then changing what you need to after everything is 
basically working.


May 20, 2024, 14:26 by :

> For card specs I always do a web search with the model number, though you may 
> have to put it in a slot to read that info.  Most of the cards I buy come 
> from ebay, used, so I'm always looking up the specs.  
>
> If it's from a server looking up the part number from one of the labels 
> should work.  
>
> For the ones I decide to buy I always get the manuals and latest firmware, 
> also via a search on the manufacturers site or on the web in general.  Most  
> companies are good about keeping even the information on obsolete cards 
> available but some are terrible about that.
>
> May 20, 2024, 13:28 by k...@aspodata.se:
>
>> Dale:
>> ...
>>
>>> First, I thought cards were backward compatible?  You could stick a 3.0
>>> into a 2.0 slot and it would just run as a 2.0 and vice versa.  I know
>>> the mobo is 2.0.  It does recognize the drive but seems to nuke the
>>> ethernet somehow.  I looked, there is no switches on the card.  I don't
>>> see a way to adjust how it works or anything.
>>>
>> ...
>>
>>  From first section of 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_3.0
>>
>>  PCI Express 3.0 Base specification revision 3.0 was made available in
>>  November 2010, after multiple delays. In August 2007, PCI-SIG announced
>>  that PCI Express 3.0 would carry a bit rate of 8 gigatransfers per second
>>  (GT/s), and that it would be backward compatible with existing PCI
>>  Express implementations.
>>
>>  Though in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Comparison_table
>>  they are said to have different encodings.
>>
>>  Unfortunately the specs (https://pcisig.com/specifications) are only
>>  available for members.
>>
>> Regards,
>> /Karl Hammar
>>

Re: [gentoo-user] PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[mad . scientist . at . large]

For card specs I always do a web search with the model number, though you may 
have to put it in a slot to read that info.  Most of the cards I buy come from 
ebay, used, so I'm always looking up the specs.  

If it's from a server looking up the part number from one of the labels should 
work.  

For the ones I decide to buy I always get the manuals and latest firmware, also 
via a search on the manufacturers site or on the web in general.  Most  
companies are good about keeping even the information on obsolete cards 
available but some are terrible about that.

May 20, 2024, 13:28 by k...@aspodata.se:

> Dale:
> ...
>
>> First, I thought cards were backward compatible?  You could stick a 3.0
>> into a 2.0 slot and it would just run as a 2.0 and vice versa.  I know
>> the mobo is 2.0.  It does recognize the drive but seems to nuke the
>> ethernet somehow.  I looked, there is no switches on the card.  I don't
>> see a way to adjust how it works or anything.
>>
> ...
>
>  From first section of 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_3.0
>
>  PCI Express 3.0 Base specification revision 3.0 was made available in
>  November 2010, after multiple delays. In August 2007, PCI-SIG announced
>  that PCI Express 3.0 would carry a bit rate of 8 gigatransfers per second
>  (GT/s), and that it would be backward compatible with existing PCI
>  Express implementations.
>
>  Though in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Comparison_table
>  they are said to have different encodings.
>
>  Unfortunately the specs (https://pcisig.com/specifications) are only
>  available for members.
>
> Regards,
> /Karl Hammar
>

Re: [gentoo-user] PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Dale]

k...@aspodata.se wrote:
> Dale:
> ...
>> First, I thought cards were backward compatible?  You could stick a 3.0
>> into a 2.0 slot and it would just run as a 2.0 and vice versa.  I know
>> the mobo is 2.0.  It does recognize the drive but seems to nuke the
>> ethernet somehow.  I looked, there is no switches on the card.  I don't
>> see a way to adjust how it works or anything.
> ...
>
>  From first section of 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_3.0
>
>   PCI Express 3.0 Base specification revision 3.0 was made available in
>   November 2010, after multiple delays. In August 2007, PCI-SIG announced
>   that PCI Express 3.0 would carry a bit rate of 8 gigatransfers per second
>   (GT/s), and that it would be backward compatible with existing PCI
>   Express implementations.
>
>  Though in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Comparison_table
>  they are said to have different encodings.
>
>  Unfortunately the specs (https://pcisig.com/specifications) are only
>  available for members.
>
> Regards,
> /Karl Hammar

That's what I was thinking to, being backward compatible.  I might add,
when I did cat /proc/partitions, it listed the drive plugged into the
card.  The card seems to have worked.  Thing is, no matter what slot I
put the SATA card into, it would kill my builtin network.  When I tried
to bring it up, it said the network didn't exist.  At first I thought it
was a shared slot or something.  It did the same thing in every slot
tho.  Also, when I removed the SATA card, the network came up on the
next boot up.  That SATA card is doing something bad. 

You, or anyone, have any idea why that card would kill my network?  I
suspect the card itself is fine.  It did see the drive.  I just need the
internet to work since it may be used in a NAS rig. 

I been searching, ebay and Amazon.  I found a couple cards on Amazon
that specify PCIe v2.0.  I couldn't find any with 8 ports or more on
Ebay that didn't say 3.0.  The ones on Amazon specify in the description
that they are v2.0.  That is what I usually get.  On the card, it
doesn't have anything but PCIe wrote on it or nothing at all.  It seems
if it isn't marked, it is v2.0 or maybe v1.0 if one can find one.  If it
is v3.0, it is marked that way.  Anyone seen any cards that disagrees
with that? 

I hope someone has a clue to make this card work.  I checked the BIOS
too, couldn't find anything in there.  Might try a ethernet card and
disable the onboard network.  See if that makes the network come up at
least.  I have another card just like this one already on the way.  I
may have two cards that won't let my network work when installed.  :/  
I may also have to buy those cards off Amazon that specify v2.0. 

Open to ideas. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[karl]

Dale:
...
> First, I thought cards were backward compatible?  You could stick a 3.0
> into a 2.0 slot and it would just run as a 2.0 and vice versa.  I know
> the mobo is 2.0.  It does recognize the drive but seems to nuke the
> ethernet somehow.  I looked, there is no switches on the card.  I don't
> see a way to adjust how it works or anything.
...

 From first section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_3.0

  PCI Express 3.0 Base specification revision 3.0 was made available in
  November 2010, after multiple delays. In August 2007, PCI-SIG announced
  that PCI Express 3.0 would carry a bit rate of 8 gigatransfers per second
  (GT/s), and that it would be backward compatible with existing PCI
  Express implementations.

 Though in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#Comparison_table
 they are said to have different encodings.

 Unfortunately the specs (https://pcisig.com/specifications) are only
 available for members.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

[gentoo-user] PCIe version 2, 3 etc and how to know which a card is.

[Dale]

Howdy,

I bought a extra PCIe SATA expansion card.  I mostly wanted a extra.  I
have a 10 port in my main rig and thought I was buying one like that
one, in case it breaks.  When I put it in the old NAS box rig to test,
my ethernet wouldn't work.  I tried a different slot but same thing.  I
found it odd that it would recognize the hard drive plugged into the
card tho.  o_O  I shutdown the rig and pulled the card.  I was checking
the card and connector on the mobo when I noticed the card said 3.0
right where it plugs into the mobo.  Ooops. 

First, I thought cards were backward compatible?  You could stick a 3.0
into a 2.0 slot and it would just run as a 2.0 and vice versa.  I know
the mobo is 2.0.  It does recognize the drive but seems to nuke the
ethernet somehow.  I looked, there is no switches on the card.  I don't
see a way to adjust how it works or anything.

Second, what is the best way to know, from the card itself, what version
PCIe it is?  If it just says PCIe or PCIe with x1, x4, x16 or something
for those that include that info, can one assume it is 2.0?  It seems
the ones that are 3.0 are marked as such.  I don't want to buy another
card and get another one that won't work in either the NAS box or my
current main rig. At least I have cards for the new rig if I need one. 
Although I was planning to buy a x4 or x8 card with lots of ports.  I
was hoping for a speed improvement with the extra 'lanes' I think they
called.  I could use those m.2 to SATA thingys too. 

I already found pics that help me identify PCI, PCIe, x1, x2, x4,x8 and
x16 slots.  Basically, the longer it is, the larger the number.  So, I
got that.  I can't find a way to look at a card or a picture of a card
and know if it is v2.0, v3.0 or v4.0 if those exist.  I'm looking for
some guidance.  Sadly, some don't include that info in the description
of the card either. 

Thanks for any tips or tricks to know which is which. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] patching an ebuild file

[ralfconn]

Il 17/05/24 20:41, Neil Bothwick ha scritto:

On Fri, 17 May 2024 20:17:14 +0200, Alarig Le Lay wrote:


I can edit the ebuild and then rebuild the manifest but on every
update I have to repeat.

Is there a way to patch an ebuild in a similar way we can patch
sources?

You can make an overlay and mask the pacakges from ::gentoo

No need to mask anything, just set the priority of your overlay higher
than that for gentoo. Otherwise you could end up not getting updates if
you don't check the gentoo repo regularly.


Creating the local overlay did not work, portage kept on pulling in the 
original ebuilds (from a public overlay themselves). Then I found that 
the modifications I needed could be done more simply via 
/etc/portage/package.accept_keywords, but that did not work either. Then 
I finally found that for my crossdev environment you need to edit 
/usr/aarch64-unknown-linux-gnu/etc/portage/package.accept_keywords. 
Probably the same holds for the local overlay but I have not verified yet.


thanks,

raf

Re: [gentoo-user] openjdk 17 on 32 bit systems

[Matthias Hanft]

netfab wrote:
> 
> You should open a bug

[X] Done: https://bugs.gentoo.org/932157

Thank you for your help!

-Matt

Re: [gentoo-user] openjdk 17 on 32 bit systems

[netfab]

You should open a bug. '-Wl,-z,notext' flag may be needed to be added
somewhere in the build system. From man ld :
> text
> notext
> textoff
>  Report an error if DT_TEXTREL is set, i.e., if the
>  position-independent or shared object has dynamic
>  relocations in read-only sections.
>  Don’t report an error if notext or textoff.

There have been relatively recent examples of patches being added in
portage for this kind of errors, see for example :
https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=91c36206566e9aebaa0d374752188acca1e49190

Re: [gentoo-user] openjdk 17 on 32 bit systems

[Matthias Hanft]

netfab wrote:
> 
> Can you post the entire build log somewhere (or maybe as attachment) ?

I have put it at https://download.hanft.de/build.log

-Matt

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.

[Dr Rainer Woitok]

Michael,

On Thursday, 2024-05-16 17:46:04 +0100, you wrote:

> ...
> > The homepage returned by
> > 
> >$ eix --verbose sys-boot/elilo
> >* sys-boot/elilo
> > Available versions:  ~3.16-r5
> > ...
> >$
> > 
> > hints that this package is no longer maintained ... :-(
> > ...
> 
> Oh!  I haven't ever used it, but recalled its name and found it on the tree.  
> I suppose if it's stable and it works, it works whether maintained or not.

Well,  the "~" ahead of the  version number says  it's non-stable.   And
considering that booting is rather hardware, firmware and kernel related
and dependent, I personally would stay off of such a package :-/

Sincerely,
  Rainer

Re: [gentoo-user] openjdk 17 on 32 bit systems

[netfab]

Le 18/05/24 à 09:58, Matthias Hanft a tapoté :
> netfab schrieb:
> > 
> > Is this up-to-date ? What is your version of sys-devel/binutils ?
> 
> Yes, everything else is up-to-date:
> 

Can you post the entire build log somewhere (or maybe as attachment) ?

Re: [gentoo-user] openjdk 17 on 32 bit systems

[Matthias Hanft]

netfab schrieb:
> 
> Is this up-to-date ? What is your version of sys-devel/binutils ?

Yes, everything else is up-to-date:

gentoo ~ # uname -a
Linux gentoo 6.6.21-gentoo #3 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Sat May  4 19:18:38 CEST 2024 
i686 Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700K CPU @ 4.00GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
gentoo ~ # eshowkw binutils
Keywords for sys-devel/binutils:
  |   |   u  |
  | a   a p s l r   a |   n  |
  | m   r h   p p   i o i s l m m | e u s| r
  | d a m p p c a x a o s 3 p 6 i | a s l| e
  | 6 r 6 p p 6 r 8 6 n c 9 h 8 p | p e o| p
  | 4 m 4 a c 4 c 6 4 g v 0 a k s | i d t| o
--+---+--+---
[...]
--+---+--+---
   [I]2.42-r1 | + ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ + ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | 7 o 2.42 | gentoo
--+---+--+---
  | o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o | 7 o  | gentoo
gentoo ~ # eshowkw gcc
Keywords for sys-devel/gcc:
   |   |   u   |
   | a   a p s l r   a |   n   |
   | m   r h   p p   i o i s l m m | e u s | r
   | d a m p p c a x a o s 3 p 6 i | a s l | e
   | 6 r 6 p p 6 r 8 6 n c 9 h 8 p | p e o | p
   | 4 m 4 a c 4 c 6 4 g v 0 a k s | i d t | o
---+---+---+---
[...]
---+---+---+---
[I]13.2.1_p20240210| + + + + + + + + ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | 8 o 13| gentoo
   13.2.1_p20240503| ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | 8 o   | gentoo
   13.2.1_p20240510| o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o | 8 #   | gentoo
  13.3.| o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o | 8 o   | gentoo
---+---+---+---
gentoo ~ # eshowkw glibc
Keywords for sys-libs/glibc:
|   |   u |
| a   a p s l r   a |   n |
| m   r h   p p   i o i s l m m | e u s   | r
| d a m p p c a x a o s 3 p 6 i | a s l   | e
| 6 r 6 p p 6 r 8 6 n c 9 h 8 p | p e o   | p
| 4 m 4 a c 4 c 6 4 g v 0 a k s | i d t   | o
+---+-+---
[...]
[I]2.38-r13 | + + + + + + + + ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | 8 o | gentoo
   2.39-r4  | ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ - ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | 8 # | gentoo
   2.39-r5  | ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ - ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ | 8 o | gentoo
   2.39-r6  | o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o | 8 # | gentoo
    | o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o | 8 o | gentoo

-Matt

Re: [gentoo-user] openjdk 17 on 32 bit systems

[netfab]

Hi,

Le 18/05/24 à 09:31, Matthias Hanft a tapoté :
> I'm keeping a (virtual) pretty old 32-bit Gentoo alive [...]

Is this up-to-date ? What is your version of sys-devel/binutils ?

[gentoo-user] openjdk 17 on 32 bit systems

[Matthias Hanft]

Hi,

I'm keeping a (virtual) pretty old 32-bit Gentoo alive (just for playing
and testing).  Everything works fine - except installing a JRE in order
to execute some .jar files.

openjdk-jre-bin and openjdk-bin aren't available for x86, so I guess I
have to install openjdk (stable 17.0.10_p7).  But that doesn't work:

--- cut here ---

[...]
/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/13/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld:
/var/tmp/portage/dev-java/openjdk-17.0.10_p7/work/jdk17u-jdk-17.0.10-ga/build/linux-x86-server-release/hotspot/variant-server/libjvm/objs/adaptiveSizePolicy.o:
 warning: relocation in read-only section
`.text'
/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/13/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: 
read-only segment has dynamic relocations
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
gmake[3]: *** [lib/CompileJvm.gmk:144: 
/var/tmp/portage/dev-java/openjdk-17.0.10_p7/work/jdk17u-jdk-17.0.10-ga/build/linux-x86-server-release/support/modules_libs/java.base/server/libjvm.so]
 Error 1
gmake[3]: Leaving directory 
'/var/tmp/portage/dev-java/openjdk-17.0.10_p7/work/jdk17u-jdk-17.0.10-ga/make/hotspot'
gmake[2]: *** [make/Main.gmk:252: hotspot-server-libs] Error 2
gmake[2]: Leaving directory 
'/var/tmp/portage/dev-java/openjdk-17.0.10_p7/work/jdk17u-jdk-17.0.10-ga'
ERROR: Build failed for target 'bootcycle-images' in configuration 
'linux-x86-server-release' (exit code 2)

--- cut here ---

I have already played with CFLAGS (-Wno-error) and USE flags (headless-awt
and jbootstrap), but to no avail.

Any hints how to get this working?

Thanks,

-Matt

Re: [gentoo-user] patching an ebuild file

[Neil Bothwick]

On Fri, 17 May 2024 20:17:14 +0200, Alarig Le Lay wrote:

> > I can edit the ebuild and then rebuild the manifest but on every
> > update I have to repeat.
> > 
> > Is there a way to patch an ebuild in a similar way we can patch
> > sources?

> You can make an overlay and mask the pacakges from ::gentoo

No need to mask anything, just set the priority of your overlay higher
than that for gentoo. Otherwise you could end up not getting updates if
you don't check the gentoo repo regularly.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue.


pgp_hEiwpYeF2.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] patching an ebuild file

[Matt Connell]

On Fri, 2024-05-17 at 20:17 +0200, Alarig Le Lay wrote:
> > Is there a way to patch an ebuild in a similar way we can patch
> > sources?
> > 
> > thanks,
> > 
> > raffaele
> 
> You can make an overlay and mask the pacakges from ::gentoo

+1 for an overlay, because others may want to use those ebuilds as well
for similar work.

Re: [gentoo-user] patching an ebuild file

[Alarig Le Lay]

On Fri 17 May 2024 19:26:02 GMT, ralfconn wrote:
> For my raspberry cross-compilation project I need to do simple 
> modifications locally to some ebuilds.
> 
> I can edit the ebuild and then rebuild the manifest but on every update 
> I have to repeat.
> 
> Is there a way to patch an ebuild in a similar way we can patch sources?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> raffaele

You can make an overlay and mask the pacakges from ::gentoo

[gentoo-user] patching an ebuild file

[ralfconn]

For my raspberry cross-compilation project I need to do simple 
modifications locally to some ebuilds.


I can edit the ebuild and then rebuild the manifest but on every update 
I have to repeat.


Is there a way to patch an ebuild in a similar way we can patch sources?

thanks,

raffaele

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[Dale]

ralfconn wrote:
> Il 16/05/24 20:46, Dale ha scritto:
>> Question.  How are the compiles times between the old FX-8350 and the
>> newer Ryzen 9?  I currently have a FX-8350.  Plan to build to a new
>> Ryzen something, maybe 5 at first.  Just curious what difference in
>> speed you see.
> I've not saved the merge times for the 8350 so I'll only give you the
> Ryzen 9 times, maybe you can compare with yours:
>
> # qlop -mav net-libs/webkit-gtk
> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.1-r410: 41′22″ average for 1 merge
> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.42.5-r410: 19′45″ average for 2 merges
> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.42.4-r600: 47′39″ average for 1 merge
> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.42.4-r410: 48′55″ average for 1 merge
> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.42.3-r410: 21′09″ average for 1 merge
>
> # qlop -mav firefox
> www-client/firefox-126.0: 31′35″ average for 1 merge
> www-client/firefox-125.0.3: 13′29″ average for 1 merge
> www-client/firefox-125.0.2: 12′42″ average for 1 merge
> www-client/firefox-125.0.1: 30′18″ average for 1 merge
>
> The 2x or more difference in merge times I believe are due to the fact
> that sometimes I build the bigger packages on their own to avoid
> running out of memory, other times I don't so the load gets split
> amongst various compilations and time stretches. I think firefox with
> the 8350 was in the hours range, so I had switched to the -bin since
> long time.
>
> I have 64Gb of RAM to account for the 12cpus/24threads. Even so I can
> run out of memory if I try to build firefox+thunderbird+webkit-gtk at
> the same time, so I often use the --exclude emerge option with these
> behemoths.
>
> I've also had a Ryzen 7 5700X/32Gb for a short time, then I passed it
> to my son and got me the 9. These are the merge times for the
> webkit-gtk, I switched to non-bin firefox only with the 9:
>
> # qlop -mav net-libs/webkit-gtk
> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.40.5-r410: 26′52″ average for 1 merge
> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.40.4-r410: 25′16″ average for 1 merge
> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.40.3-r410: 59′46″ average for 1 merge
> net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.40.2-r410: 32′47″ average for 2 merges
>
> Not a huge difference compared to the 9, as foreseeable, after all
> it's the exact same architecture with some more pepper.
>
> If you go for the Ryzen remember that its instruction set is not
> compatible with the Athlon's so if you built your 8350 system with
> e.g. -march=native (as I did) you need to recompile @world with a less
> restrictive -march before moving the disk to the Ryzen system
> otherwise it won't even boot.
>
> raf
>
>

The only package I can compare to is Firefox.  I don't have the other
one.  Still, it compiles Firefox a lot faster.  It's a pretty good size
difference in speed. 

Thanks for the info.  Helps me know what to expect. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[ralfconn]

Il 16/05/24 20:46, Dale ha scritto:

Question.  How are the compiles times between the old FX-8350 and the
newer Ryzen 9?  I currently have a FX-8350.  Plan to build to a new
Ryzen something, maybe 5 at first.  Just curious what difference in
speed you see.
I've not saved the merge times for the 8350 so I'll only give you the 
Ryzen 9 times, maybe you can compare with yours:


# qlop -mav net-libs/webkit-gtk
net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.44.1-r410: 41′22″ average for 1 merge
net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.42.5-r410: 19′45″ average for 2 merges
net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.42.4-r600: 47′39″ average for 1 merge
net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.42.4-r410: 48′55″ average for 1 merge
net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.42.3-r410: 21′09″ average for 1 merge

# qlop -mav firefox
www-client/firefox-126.0: 31′35″ average for 1 merge
www-client/firefox-125.0.3: 13′29″ average for 1 merge
www-client/firefox-125.0.2: 12′42″ average for 1 merge
www-client/firefox-125.0.1: 30′18″ average for 1 merge

The 2x or more difference in merge times I believe are due to the fact 
that sometimes I build the bigger packages on their own to avoid running 
out of memory, other times I don't so the load gets split amongst 
various compilations and time stretches. I think firefox with the 8350 
was in the hours range, so I had switched to the -bin since long time.


I have 64Gb of RAM to account for the 12cpus/24threads. Even so I can 
run out of memory if I try to build firefox+thunderbird+webkit-gtk at 
the same time, so I often use the --exclude emerge option with these 
behemoths.


I've also had a Ryzen 7 5700X/32Gb for a short time, then I passed it to 
my son and got me the 9. These are the merge times for the webkit-gtk, I 
switched to non-bin firefox only with the 9:


# qlop -mav net-libs/webkit-gtk
net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.40.5-r410: 26′52″ average for 1 merge
net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.40.4-r410: 25′16″ average for 1 merge
net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.40.3-r410: 59′46″ average for 1 merge
net-libs/webkit-gtk-2.40.2-r410: 32′47″ average for 2 merges

Not a huge difference compared to the 9, as foreseeable, after all it's 
the exact same architecture with some more pepper.


If you go for the Ryzen remember that its instruction set is not 
compatible with the Athlon's so if you built your 8350 system with e.g. 
-march=native (as I did) you need to recompile @world with a less 
restrictive -march before moving the disk to the Ryzen system otherwise 
it won't even boot.


raf

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[Dale]

ralfconn wrote:
> Il 15/05/24 16:23, Alan Mackenzie ha scritto:
>> As a somewhat tangential question, would it be worthwhile getting water
>> cooling in my new machine?  In particular, to reduce the noise it gives
>> off while building large packages such as clang and rust?  Or is water
>> cooling only sensible for really heavy users such as gamers?
>>
> For a Ryzen 9 5900X (105W TDP) here I use a Noctua CPU cooler NH-U12A
> PWM plus a Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM on the case, a pretty expensive
> solution and probably an overkill since even while building for Gentoo
> @24 threads the noise is audible but a LOT less than the old FX-8350
> (125W TDP) with the stock Wraith cooler. During normal work it's
> almost inaudibile. I don't play games.
>
> raf

Question.  How are the compiles times between the old FX-8350 and the
newer Ryzen 9?  I currently have a FX-8350.  Plan to build to a new
Ryzen something, maybe 5 at first.  Just curious what difference in
speed you see. 

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.

[Michael]

On Thursday, 16 May 2024 17:41:20 BST Dr Rainer Woitok wrote:
> Michael,
> 
> On Thursday, 2024-05-16 09:26:39 +0100, you wrote:
> > ...
> > 
> > > > I liked lilo. And then it disappeared :-(
> > > 
> > > ...
> > > 
> > >  Still available and still working on non-uefi setups:
> > > https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/sys-boot/lilo
> > > 
> > > ...
> > 
> > There's also 'sys-boot/elilo' for EFI systems.
> 
> The homepage returned by
> 
>$ eix --verbose sys-boot/elilo
>* sys-boot/elilo
> Available versions:  ~3.16-r5
> Homepage:https://sourceforge.net/projects/elilo/
> Description: Linux boot loader for EFI-based systems such as
> IA-64 License: GPL-2
>$
> 
> hints that this package is no longer maintained ... :-(
> 
> Sincerely,
>   Rainer

Oh!  I haven't ever used it, but recalled its name and found it on the tree.  
I suppose if it's stable and it works, it works whether maintained or not.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.

[Dr Rainer Woitok]

Michael,

On Thursday, 2024-05-16 09:26:39 +0100, you wrote:

> ...
> > > I liked lilo. And then it disappeared :-(
> > ...
> >  Still available and still working on non-uefi setups:
> > https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/sys-boot/lilo
> > 
> > ...
> 
> There's also 'sys-boot/elilo' for EFI systems.

The homepage returned by

   $ eix --verbose sys-boot/elilo
   * sys-boot/elilo
Available versions:  ~3.16-r5
Homepage:https://sourceforge.net/projects/elilo/
Description: Linux boot loader for EFI-based systems such as 
IA-64
License: GPL-2
   $

hints that this package is no longer maintained ... :-(

Sincerely,
  Rainer

Re: [gentoo-user] mtp cannot create directories on SD card on cellphone

[Dr Rainer Woitok]

Walter,

On Wednesday, 2024-05-15 17:28:46 -0400, you wrote:

>   What I *CAN* do... upload/download/create/delete *FILES* on SD card
> 
>   What I *CANNOT* do... create new *DIRECTORIES* on SD card
> 
> [x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet/sdcard1] mkdir data
> mkdir: cannot create directory ‘data’: Input/output error
> 
>   This happens with both "jmtps" and "simple-mtpfs", so I think it's
> probably a systemic issue that affects all implementions.

Though I also have "simple-mtpfs" installed I'm mostly using it with the
SD cards mounted read-only.  For "real" work I'm using "adb" provided by
"dev-util/android-tools".  Among many other things like pushing files to
or pulling files from your mobile phone,  it provides a "shell" sub-com-
mand which allows executing a single shell command  on the mobile device
or opening a shell on it for issuing more commands in a row:

   $ adb shell
   herolte:/ $ cd /storage/emulated/0
   herolte:/storage/emulated/0 $ ls -ld .
   drwxrwx--x 27 root sdcard_rw 4096 2024-05-16 08:01 .
   herolte:/storage/emulated/0 $ touch xxx
   herolte:/storage/emulated/0 $ ls -l xxx
   -rw-rw 1 root sdcard_rw 0 2024-05-16 16:13 xxx
   herolte:/storage/emulated/0 $ mkdir yyy
   herolte:/storage/emulated/0 $ ls -ld yyy
   drwxrwx--x 2 root sdcard_rw 4096 2024-05-16 16:13 yyy
   herolte:/storage/emulated/0 $ rmdir yyy
   herolte:/storage/emulated/0 $ rm xxx
   herolte:/storage/emulated/0 $ cd /storage/5BC5-805B
   herolte:/storage/5BC5-805B $ ls -ld .
   drwxrwx--x 7 root sdcard_rw 32768 2024-02-21 20:20 .
   herolte:/storage/5BC5-805B $ touch xxx
   herolte:/storage/5BC5-805B $ ls -l xxx
   -rwxrwx--x 1 root sdcard_rw 0 2024-05-16 16:14 xxx
   herolte:/storage/5BC5-805B $ mkdir yyy
   herolte:/storage/5BC5-805B $ ls -ld yyy
   drwxrwx--x 2 root sdcard_rw 32768 2024-05-16 16:15 yyy
   herolte:/storage/5BC5-805B $ rmdir yyy
   herolte:/storage/5BC5-805B $ rm xxx
   herolte:/storage/5BC5-805B $ exit

Three additional remarks:

- The mobile phone is not required to be rooted.

- But to get "adb" working requires "USB Debugging" to be enabled on the
  mobile device.   On your mobile  device this option can be found under
  "Settings -> Developer Options" (if the "Developer Options"  are still
  hidden in the "Settings" menu,  make them visible  once and forever by
  opening "Settings -> About Device -> Software Information" and tapping
  "Build Number" seven times).

- For security reasons (for instance  when charging your phone at a pub-
  lic charging station)  you should only enable  "USB Debugging" on your
  own phone while connecting it with your own computer for file transfer
  or similar work.

Sincerely,
  Rainer

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[ralfconn]

Il 15/05/24 16:23, Alan Mackenzie ha scritto:

As a somewhat tangential question, would it be worthwhile getting water
cooling in my new machine?  In particular, to reduce the noise it gives
off while building large packages such as clang and rust?  Or is water
cooling only sensible for really heavy users such as gamers?

For a Ryzen 9 5900X (105W TDP) here I use a Noctua CPU cooler NH-U12A 
PWM plus a Noctua NF-A12x25 PWM on the case, a pretty expensive solution 
and probably an overkill since even while building for Gentoo @24 
threads the noise is audible but a LOT less than the old FX-8350 (125W 
TDP) with the stock Wraith cooler. During normal work it's almost 
inaudibile. I don't play games.


raf

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: mtp cannot create directories on SD card on cellphone

[Walter Dnes]

On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 10:42:16AM +0100, Nuno Silva wrote

> Did anything change? Any tablet software upgrade? Did the MTP tool on
> the computer side change? Or perhaps the kernel, if it can influence
> this FUSE interaction somehow?

  Just the usual updates to world.
 
> At this point I'd consider testing with known good versions if possible
> (those that can run chown without that error).

  There are no "known good versions".

>  Is mkdir something that used to work too?

  I did some more dicking around, and it gets "curiouser and curiouser".
I mount the phone on /home/waltdnes/tablet then...

cd sdcard1

mkdir subdir
mkdir: cannot create directory ‘subdir’: Input/output error

  This happens even as root.. *BUT* even as a regular user I can
"cd /home/waltdnes/tablet/screenshots" and create+delete subdirectories
as well as files.  To summarize, I can do what I want in the "DCIM" and
"screenshots" subdirectories ("ownership" notwithstanding), but not in
the top-level "sdcard1" directory

===

[x8940][waltdnes][~] tabon
Device 0 (VID=1bbb and PID=f003) is a Alcatel OneTouch 6034R.
Android device detected, assigning default bug flags
[x8940][waltdnes][~] cd /home/waltdnes/tablet
[x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet] ll
total 24
drwxr-xr-x   4 root root  0 Dec 31  1969 .
drwxr-xr-x 144 waltdnes users 24576 May 16 10:40 ..
drwxr-xr-x   5 root root  0 Aug 30  4438198 sdcard
drwxr-xr-x   6 root root  0 Jun 21  4438201 sdcard1
[x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet] cd sdcard1
[x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet/sdcard1] ll
total 0
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 0 Jun 21  4438201 .
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 0 Dec 31  1969 ..
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Oct 10  2033 DCIM
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 0 May 18  1950 LOST.DIR
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 0 Sep 25  2019 screenshots
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 0 Aug 19  1950 wlan_logs
[x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet/sdcard1] cd screenshots/
[x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet/sdcard1/screenshots] ll
total 0
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root0 Sep 25  2019 .
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root0 Jun 21  4438201 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 21669139 Aug  8  1934 walter.pdf
[x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet/sdcard1/screenshots] mkdir subdir
[x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet/sdcard1/screenshots] ll
total 0
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root0 Sep 25  2019 .
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root0 Dec 31  1969 ..
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root0 Dec 31  1969 subdir
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 21669139 Aug  8  1934 walter.pdf
[x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet/sdcard1/screenshots] cd
[x8940][waltdnes][~] taboff

===

-- 
Roses are red
Roses are blue
Depending on their velocity
Relative to you

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: mtp cannot create directories on SD card on cellphone

[Michael]

On Thursday, 16 May 2024 10:42:16 BST Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2024-05-16, Walter Dnes wrote:
> > On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 03:06:50PM -0700, Mark Knecht wrote
> > 
> >> Have you checked that the directory where you are attempting to
> >> do this is one that your account owns? I generally have to su - to
> >> root, create a directory at the top level, change it so that I own it and
> >> have rwx permissions, and then exit root. After that I can do what I
> >> want.
> >> 
> >   I have a short script ~/bin/tabon
> > 
> > [x8940][waltdnes][~] cat bin/tabon
> > #!/bin/bash
> > sudo /usr/bin/jmtpfs /home/waltdnes/tablet -o allow_other,auto_unmount,rw
> > #
> > # Only needed once
> > #sudo /bin/chown -R waltdnes:users /home/waltdnes/tablet
> > 
> >   The last (commented out) line *USED TO WORK*.  Now it spits out a
> > 
> > whole slew of...
> > 
> > /bin/chown: changing ownership of
> > '/home/waltdnes/tablet/sdcard1/blah_blah_blah': Function not implemented
> > 
> > ...one for each direcory and file.  I believe the phone formats the card
> > as either FAT32 or XFAT.
> 
> Did anything change? Any tablet software upgrade? Did the MTP tool on
> the computer side change? Or perhaps the kernel, if it can influence
> this FUSE interaction somehow?
> 
> At this point I'd consider testing with known good versions if possible
> (those that can run chown without that error). Is mkdir something that
> used to work too?
> 
> The "Function not implemented" looks off for something that used to work
> before. (Or was it failing silently before? If this is FAT* or exFAT,
> wouldn't ownership be a thing for the FUSE tool to set itself? Or does
> exFAT have the concept of ownership?)

FAT/exFAT do not support filesystem level user permissions and consequently 
you would get a "Function not implemented" error with chown.

When a USB device with a FAT/exFAT fs, is mounted with udisksctl they show up 
as:

$ lsblk -o PATH,TYPE,FSTYPE,OWNER,GROUP,MODE,MOUNTPOINT /dev/sdb1
PATH  TYPE FSTYPE OWNER GROUP MODE   MOUNTPOINT
/dev/sdb1 part vfat   root  disk  brw-rw /run/media/michael/CRUCIAL-8G

and the fs is mounted with the sticky bit so it writeable by the user:

$ ls -la /run/media/michael/CRUCIAL-8G/
total 2500976
drwxr-xr-x  2 michael michael  16384 Jan  1  1970  .
drwxr-x---+ 3 rootroot60 May 16 15:52  ..


exFAT looks the same if you have enabled the exFAT kernel driver, as opposed 
to using FUSE.

I don't have a device using MTP here to check how it is mounted over FUSE, but 
FUSE is meant to mount a device with the permissions of the user who mounts it 
AND the user can only mount on a mountpoint for which they have write 
permission.

However, there is a kernel bug if the default_permissions mount option has not 
been used, whereby results of the first permission check performed by the file 
system for a directory entry are cached and reused - even if the permissions 
have since changed - see here:

https://github.com/libfuse/libfuse

I do remember having some trouble creating directories on an SD card in a 
GARMIN GPS device.  I had to remove it and mount it on Linux to be able to 
work on it, but can't recall the details. 


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Re: [gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[Michael]

On Thursday, 16 May 2024 11:13:31 BST Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> Am Wed, May 15, 2024 at 07:08:11PM +0100 schrieb Michael:
> > Hi Alan,
> > 
> > On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 15:23:47 BST Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > > Hello, Gentoo.
> > > […]
> > > So I'm looking at getting an AMD Ryzen 7 7700X processor, and using its
> > > inbuilt graphics rather than buying a distinct graphics card.
> > 
> > […]
> > 
> > > As a somewhat tangential question, would it be worthwhile getting water
> > > cooling in my new machine?  In particular, to reduce the noise it gives
> > > off while building large packages such as clang and rust?  Or is water
> > > cooling only sensible for really heavy users such as gamers?
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the upcoming answers!
> > 
> > WC will be quieter and more expensive than an after market air cooler.
> 
> Are you sure about the noise? First there is the water pump and second,
> the heat from the air cycle needs to get somewhere, which is donw with fans.
> So unless you get a big radiator with several fans, you just relocate the
> fan noise inside the case.

Unless faulty a WC pump is inaudible.  A radiator with two 140mm fans will 
just tick over, even under heavy load and overclocked, while I've see AC fans 
spin above 1200 RPM.  Either way, I think there's more noise coming out of 
case fans than the CPU's AC, which is in the guts of the case.

Another way to think about it, the liquid cooling medium can absorb more heat 
until it is saturated enough to start spinning higher the 2 or 3 radiator 
fans, which are typically larger than AC fan(s).

There's also a question of just buying an AIO cooler, or some custom oversized 
build which will be on a different level of performance (and cost).


> I have a 10 years old i5 with a TDP of I think 84 W. On that sits a normal
> (not even high-performance) tower cooler with a single 120 mm fan. At full
> load the CPU draws around 50 W, maybe even less unless you do prime95. So my
> cooler is basically overkill. But this allows the fan to never leave the
> minimum RPM range of ~500…600 1/min and is unaudible even at full load.

Yes, at these RPMs it will be very quiet, but I expect your new CPU will spin 
its AC faster when under load.


> However …
> 
> > You could invest the money toward more RAM, (more/bigger) case fans, a
> > better PSU, monitor, speakers, a new car, etc.  :-)
> > 
> > https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-specs/amd-7700x-tdp/
> > 
> > Cranking up 16 threads to 5.4 GHz will produce some heat, but compiles
> > will
> > complete sooner too.
> 
> … the 7000X are hotheads, because they operate way above the efficiency
> sweetspot just to get the longest bar in benchmark diagrams. If you reduce
> the power target¹ in the BIOS, you lose a few percent in performance, but
> get a disproportionately bigger reduction in energy consumption.
> 
> ¹ The TDP of a 7700X is 105 W. The maximum permanent power draw is TDP * 1.4
> (ish, can’t remember the exact details right now). So if you reduce the
> target to 84 W, you draw a little over 100 W. That’s easy-peasy for a
> mormal 120 mm tower cooler. One additional advantage of an air cooler is
> that it also blows air over your mainboard and its power stages. That’s
> something you don’t get with a water loop and need an extra case fan for—IF
> you keep the CPU on high load all the time which causes more heat buildup
> in the VRMs.

As you say, an AC can also draw air at close proximity over the RAM modules 
and VRMs compared to the more diffused airflow of case fan(s), which is an 
additional benefit.  If you will tune down the CPU, as opposed to O/C it, then 
I think an air cooler will be more than adequate and represent more bang for 
your buck.

I came across this video, but more detailed reviews and tests should be 
available for your specific CPU in the interwebs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxf4ZXJTNpI


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Re: [gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[Frank Steinmetzger]

Am Wed, May 15, 2024 at 07:08:11PM +0100 schrieb Michael:
> Hi Alan,
> 
> On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 15:23:47 BST Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> > Hello, Gentoo.
> > […]
> > So I'm looking at getting an AMD Ryzen 7 7700X processor, and using its
> > inbuilt graphics rather than buying a distinct graphics card.
> > 
> […]
> > As a somewhat tangential question, would it be worthwhile getting water
> > cooling in my new machine?  In particular, to reduce the noise it gives
> > off while building large packages such as clang and rust?  Or is water
> > cooling only sensible for really heavy users such as gamers?
> > 
> > Thanks for the upcoming answers!
> 
> WC will be quieter and more expensive than an after market air cooler.

Are you sure about the noise? First there is the water pump and second, 
the heat from the air cycle needs to get somewhere, which is donw with fans.
So unless you get a big radiator with several fans, you just relocate the 
fan noise inside the case.

I have a 10 years old i5 with a TDP of I think 84 W. On that sits a normal 
(not even high-performance) tower cooler with a single 120 mm fan. At full 
load the CPU draws around 50 W, maybe even less unless you do prime95. So my 
cooler is basically overkill. But this allows the fan to never leave the 
minimum RPM range of ~500…600 1/min and is unaudible even at full load.
However …

> You could invest the money toward more RAM, (more/bigger) case fans, a 
> better PSU, monitor, speakers, a new car, etc.  :-)
> 
> https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-specs/amd-7700x-tdp/
> 
> Cranking up 16 threads to 5.4 GHz will produce some heat, but compiles will 
> complete sooner too.

… the 7000X are hotheads, because they operate way above the efficiency 
sweetspot just to get the longest bar in benchmark diagrams. If you reduce 
the power target¹ in the BIOS, you lose a few percent in performance, but 
get a disproportionately bigger reduction in energy consumption.

¹ The TDP of a 7700X is 105 W. The maximum permanent power draw is TDP * 1.4 
(ish, can’t remember the exact details right now). So if you reduce the 
target to 84 W, you draw a little over 100 W. That’s easy-peasy for a mormal 
120 mm tower cooler. One additional advantage of an air cooler is that it 
also blows air over your mainboard and its power stages. That’s something 
you don’t get with a water loop and need an extra case fan for—IF you keep 
the CPU on high load all the time which causes more heat buildup in the VRMs.

-- 
Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

The perfect diet: no breakfast in the morning,
in return forego pudding at lunch and then go to bed without dinner.


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[gentoo-user] Re: mtp cannot create directories on SD card on cellphone

[Nuno Silva]

On 2024-05-16, Walter Dnes wrote:

> On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 03:06:50PM -0700, Mark Knecht wrote
>> 
>> Have you checked that the directory where you are attempting to
>> do this is one that your account owns? I generally have to su - to
>> root, create a directory at the top level, change it so that I own it and
>> have rwx permissions, and then exit root. After that I can do what I want.
>
>   I have a short script ~/bin/tabon
>
> [x8940][waltdnes][~] cat bin/tabon
> #!/bin/bash
> sudo /usr/bin/jmtpfs /home/waltdnes/tablet -o allow_other,auto_unmount,rw
> #
> # Only needed once
> #sudo /bin/chown -R waltdnes:users /home/waltdnes/tablet
>
>   The last (commented out) line *USED TO WORK*.  Now it spits out a
> whole slew of...
>
> /bin/chown: changing ownership of 
> '/home/waltdnes/tablet/sdcard1/blah_blah_blah': Function not implemented
>
> ...one for each direcory and file.  I believe the phone formats the card
> as either FAT32 or XFAT.

Did anything change? Any tablet software upgrade? Did the MTP tool on
the computer side change? Or perhaps the kernel, if it can influence
this FUSE interaction somehow?

At this point I'd consider testing with known good versions if possible
(those that can run chown without that error). Is mkdir something that
used to work too?

The "Function not implemented" looks off for something that used to work
before. (Or was it failing silently before? If this is FAT* or exFAT,
wouldn't ownership be a thing for the FUSE tool to set itself? Or does
exFAT have the concept of ownership?)

-- 
Nuno Silva

[gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.

[Nuno Silva]

On 2024-05-16, Michael wrote:

> On Thursday, 16 May 2024 01:10:32 BST k...@aspodata.se wrote:
>> Wol:
>> > On 15/05/2024 11:40, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> > > I think whoever named grub had delusions of grandeur.  🙂  Anyway, I
>> > > never let it near my systems.
>> > 
>> > I liked lilo. And then it disappeared :-(
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>>  Still available and still working on non-uefi setups:
>> https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/sys-boot/lilo
>> 
>> Regards,
>> /Karl Hammar
>
> There's also 'sys-boot/elilo' for EFI systems.

What about grub as in "grub1" or grub0.xx for PC BIOS, is it still
available (outside the main tree?) and working e.g. with patches, or is
there some unsolved compilation issue nowadays?

-- 
Nuno Silva

Re: [gentoo-user] Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Neil Bothwick]

On Wed, 15 May 2024 20:55:53 -0500, Dale wrote:

> > xclip is not a clipboard, it is a tool to manage the contents of the
> > existing clipboards and selection buffers.
> >
> >  
> 
> 
> Well, just for giggles. 
> 
> root@fireball / # echo "" | xclip
> -bash: xclip: command not found
> root@fireball / #
> 
> It didn't like it.  :/

You missed out the important first step:

$ emerge -a xclip

 :-(

-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 683: Time out error - Operator fell asleep while waiting for the
system to complete boot procedure.


pgp4EEaRUWqz5.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.

[Michael]

On Thursday, 16 May 2024 01:10:32 BST k...@aspodata.se wrote:
> Wol:
> > On 15/05/2024 11:40, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > > I think whoever named grub had delusions of grandeur.  🙂  Anyway, I
> > > never let it near my systems.
> > 
> > I liked lilo. And then it disappeared :-(
> 
> ...
> 
>  Still available and still working on non-uefi setups:
> https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/sys-boot/lilo
> 
> Regards,
> /Karl Hammar

There's also 'sys-boot/elilo' for EFI systems.


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Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] mtp cannot create directories on SD card on cellphone

[Walter Dnes]

On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 03:06:50PM -0700, Mark Knecht wrote
> 
> Have you checked that the directory where you are attempting to
> do this is one that your account owns? I generally have to su - to
> root, create a directory at the top level, change it so that I own it and
> have rwx permissions, and then exit root. After that I can do what I want.

  I have a short script ~/bin/tabon

[x8940][waltdnes][~] cat bin/tabon
#!/bin/bash
sudo /usr/bin/jmtpfs /home/waltdnes/tablet -o allow_other,auto_unmount,rw
#
# Only needed once
#sudo /bin/chown -R waltdnes:users /home/waltdnes/tablet

  The last (commented out) line *USED TO WORK*.  Now it spits out a
whole slew of...

/bin/chown: changing ownership of 
'/home/waltdnes/tablet/sdcard1/blah_blah_blah': Function not implemented

...one for each direcory and file.  I believe the phone formats the card
as either FAT32 or XFAT.

-- 
Roses are red
Roses are blue
Depending on their velocity
Relative to you

Re: [gentoo-user] mtp cannot create directories on SD card on cellphone

[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 4:38 PM Walter Dnes  wrote:
>
> > Have you checked that the directory where you are attempting to do
> > this is one that your account owns? I generally have to su - to root,
> > create a directory at the top level, change it so that I own it and
> > have rwx permissions, and then exit root. After that I can do what
> > I want.
>
>   So I did "su" and tried changing ownership... failed
>
> x8940 /home/waltdnes/tablet # chown waltdnes:users sdcard1
> chown: changing ownership of 'sdcard1': Function not implemented
>
>   Let's try "chmod"... failed silently
>
> [x8940][root][/home/waltdnes/tablet] chmod 777 sdcard1
> [x8940][root][/home/waltdnes/tablet] ll
> total 24
> drwxr-xr-x   4 root root  0 Dec 31  1969 .
> drwxr-xr-x 144 waltdnes users 24576 May 15 18:17 ..
> drwxr-xr-x   5 root root  0 Nov 16  4456932 sdcard
> drwxr-xr-x   6 root root  0 Apr 22  4456932 sdcard1
>
>   root can't chmod sdcard1.
>
> [x8940][root][/home/waltdnes/tablet] mkdir sdcard1/data
> mkdir: cannot create directory ‘sdcard1/data’: Input/output error
>
>   and root can't create a directory!!!  Let's try top level...
>
> [x8940][root][~] cd /home/waltdnes/tablet
> [x8940][root][/home/waltdnes/tablet] mkdir data
> mkdir: cannot create directory ‘data’: Read-only file system
>


So it seems very strange to me that, per the initial message, you
can create and delete files, which implies the file system
is not read only, but the mkdir command thinks it is read only.

And from what I've read there is no read-only switch on this
SD card, correct? It's just something like a chip that plugs into
a Raspberry Pi or a camera, correct?

I am not exactly clear from rereading what the actual SD card is
or how it's attached, and you are using file system types I know
nothing about. However, if only for clarity, what I've had to do
even with ext3/4 is essentially the following:

1) su - and enter root password.

2) As root navigate to /home/walter/tablet or whatever the
location is where you believe you are really ON the SD card

3) Create a file using vi, save the file, make sure it's there
and make sure it's owned root:root.

4) Exit the su and make sure the file is there. Unmount the
SD card, remount the SD card and check that it's really
there. Put the SD card in some other system where you
can see the file, if possible.

5) Assuming all of that makes sense, remount the CD
card, su there again, and chown the file to walter:walter
or walter:user or whatever is appropriate. Make sure
you can edit the file from some other terminal process.

6) As root in the su, then try to create a directory. If it's
still read only then this is way above my pay grade. However
if you can create the directory, which I've always been able
to do as root, then chown -R the directory to your user
ID.

It is important to ensure that OS believes you have
read/write access all the way up and down the chain so
you might need to chown -R walter:walter AS ROOT
from your home directory into the mount point, which if
I understand, is /home/walter/tablet, so I'd be root and
doing the command sitting in /home/walter.

Sorry. Wish I could be more helpful but this has been
a problem on my systems ever since I started using
Linux 25-30 years ago and I struggle with it maybe once
a year.

Good luck,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2024 08:09:01 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>>> x11-misc/xclip
>>>
>>> Or just select some empty space in an application, to overwrite your
>>> previous selection.  
>> Well, since it works, something is acting as a clipboard.  It doesn't
>> seem to be xclip in my case.
> xclip is not a clipboard, it is a tool to manage the contents of the
> existing clipboards and selection buffers.
>
>


Well, just for giggles. 

root@fireball / # echo "" | xclip
-bash: xclip: command not found
root@fireball / #

It didn't like it.  :/

It seems that it only remembers one in memory anyway.  Once I highlight
something else, it kinda clears itself.  That works.  Heck, I have to
clear the Konsole when I exit kpcli anyway. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.

[karl]

Wol:
> On 15/05/2024 11:40, Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > I think whoever named grub had delusions of grandeur.  🙂  Anyway, I 
> > never let
> > it near my systems.
> 
> I liked lilo. And then it disappeared :-(
...

 Still available and still working on non-uefi setups:
https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/sys-boot/lilo

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

Re: [gentoo-user] mtp cannot create directories on SD card on cellphone

[Walter Dnes]

> Have you checked that the directory where you are attempting to do
> this is one that your account owns? I generally have to su - to root,
> create a directory at the top level, change it so that I own it and
> have rwx permissions, and then exit root. After that I can do what
> I want.

  So I did "su" and tried changing ownership... failed

x8940 /home/waltdnes/tablet # chown waltdnes:users sdcard1
chown: changing ownership of 'sdcard1': Function not implemented

  Let's try "chmod"... failed silently

[x8940][root][/home/waltdnes/tablet] chmod 777 sdcard1
[x8940][root][/home/waltdnes/tablet] ll
total 24
drwxr-xr-x   4 root root  0 Dec 31  1969 .
drwxr-xr-x 144 waltdnes users 24576 May 15 18:17 ..
drwxr-xr-x   5 root root  0 Nov 16  4456932 sdcard
drwxr-xr-x   6 root root  0 Apr 22  4456932 sdcard1

  root can't chmod sdcard1.

[x8940][root][/home/waltdnes/tablet] mkdir sdcard1/data
mkdir: cannot create directory ‘sdcard1/data’: Input/output error

  and root can't create a directory!!!  Let's try top level...

[x8940][root][~] cd /home/waltdnes/tablet
[x8940][root][/home/waltdnes/tablet] mkdir data
mkdir: cannot create directory ‘data’: Read-only file system

  A suggestion at https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7317638

> The permissions for non-linux filesystems are defined for the whole
> partition at the time it's mounted, and you can change them by
> configuring the drive in /etc/fstab.

  So I added a line to /etc/fstab, but no luck...

/sys/fs/fuse/connections /home/waltdnes/tablet auto 
noauto,users,noatime,nodiratime,async,rw 0 0

  No luck.

-- 
Roses are red
Roses are blue
Depending on their velocity
Relative to you

[gentoo-user] Re: Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Nuno Silva]

On 2024-05-15, Michael wrote:

>
> There are 3 'cliboards', known as selections, I know of:
>
> 1. Primary - you select some text by holding down your left mouse button (or 
> Shift+arrow) and you paste it with your middle button (or Shift+Insert - 
> depending on application).
>
> 2. Secondary - some applications will autoselect text, e.g. when you click in 
> the non-empty address bar of a browser.  This can replace any selection you 
> had in the Primary selection.  It depends on the particular application.
>
> 3. Clipboard - this is the Ctrl+x/c/v MSWindows style of cut/copy/paste menu 
> items.
>
> More details can be found in the spec here:
>
> https://specifications.freedesktop.org/clipboards-spec/clipboards-latest.txt

There's also this one:

  https://www.jwz.org/doc/x-cut-and-paste.html

Which mentions the support for different targets, also mentioned in:

  https://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/2018/10/07/further-fun-with-the-clipboard/

(xclip can be used for targets too, "xclip -o -target TARGETS" for a
list of the currently available targets)

> As far as I know the Primary selection is not stored anywhere - other than 
> within the application's memory space where the range of characters have been 
> selected.  The xserver will call for this when you middle click to paste it 
> on 
> another application's window.
>
> The Clipboard may be stored in RAM or cache of any applications which use 
> this 
> method.

-- 
Nuno Silva

Re: [gentoo-user] mtp cannot create directories on SD card on cellphone

[Mark Knecht]

On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 2:29 PM Walter Dnes  wrote:
>
>   What I *CAN* do... upload/download/create/delete *FILES* on SD card
>
>   What I *CANNOT* do... create new *DIRECTORIES* on SD card
>
> [x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet/sdcard1] mkdir data
> mkdir: cannot create directory ‘data’: Input/output error
>
>   This happens with both "jmtps" and "simple-mtpfs", so I think it's
> probably a systemic issue that affects all implementions.  For now I'm
> using the "screenshots" directory for transferring miscellaneous files,
> but I'd really like to solve the core problem.  Any ideas?

Have you checked that the directory where you are attempting to
do this is one that your account owns? I generally have to su - to
root, create a directory at the top level, change it so that I own it and
have rwx permissions, and then exit root. After that I can do what I want.

HTH,
Mark

[gentoo-user] mtp cannot create directories on SD card on cellphone

[Walter Dnes]

  What I *CAN* do... upload/download/create/delete *FILES* on SD card

  What I *CANNOT* do... create new *DIRECTORIES* on SD card

[x8940][waltdnes][~/tablet/sdcard1] mkdir data
mkdir: cannot create directory ‘data’: Input/output error

  This happens with both "jmtps" and "simple-mtpfs", so I think it's
probably a systemic issue that affects all implementions.  For now I'm
using the "screenshots" directory for transferring miscellaneous files,
but I'd really like to solve the core problem.  Any ideas?

-- 
Roses are red
Roses are blue
Depending on their velocity
Relative to you

Re: [gentoo-user] Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Neil Bothwick]

On Wed, 15 May 2024 08:09:01 -0500, Dale wrote:

> > x11-misc/xclip
> >
> > Or just select some empty space in an application, to overwrite your
> > previous selection.  
> 
> Well, since it works, something is acting as a clipboard.  It doesn't
> seem to be xclip in my case.

xclip is not a clipboard, it is a tool to manage the contents of the
existing clipboards and selection buffers.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Loose bits sink chips.


pgp8VMd5CFgb7.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[Michael]

Hi Alan,

On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 15:23:47 BST Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Gentoo.
> 
> My current rig is working well (hence the lack of posts to the list from
> me), but 
> 
> The time is coming up for me to buy a new PC, the current one being
> around 7 years old.  It's served me well for that time, but nothing
> lasts forever.  Also, it would be nice to be able to build clang and
> rust and friends somewhat faster.
> 
> So I'm looking at getting an AMD Ryzen 7 7700X processor, and using its
> inbuilt graphics rather than buying a distinct graphics card.
> 
> But in the doc on wiki.gentoo.org, I can't find any mention of inbuilt
> graphics; all references are to graphics _cards_.  Does Gentoo support
> my intended processor's graphics, and if so, how do I go about
> identifying the needed microcode (if any) and so on?  Am I missing
> something obvious in the wiki?

I don't have anything as exotic running here, but you will need amdgpu, plus 
(potentially) amdgpu-pro for your graphics:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/AMDGPU
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/AMDGPU-PRO

You will be able to confirm what is required in respect to firmware and kernel 
graphics driver components once you boot up with a liveUSB.  It will complain 
of any missing firmware.

For microcode, flash the BIOS with the latest OEM firmware and add the 
corresponding AMD family firmware file in your kernel:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/AMD_microcode

If you boot with the latest Ubuntu it will probably load everything required; 
then fish around dmesg and hwinfo, lspci, lscpu, etc. for relevant drivers and 
firmware files.


> As a somewhat tangential question, would it be worthwhile getting water
> cooling in my new machine?  In particular, to reduce the noise it gives
> off while building large packages such as clang and rust?  Or is water
> cooling only sensible for really heavy users such as gamers?
> 
> Thanks for the upcoming answers!

WC will be quieter and more expensive than an after market air cooler.  You 
could invest the money toward more RAM, (more/bigger) case fans, a better PSU, 
monitor, speakers, a new car, etc.  :-)

https://www.techreviewer.com/tech-specs/amd-7700x-tdp/

Cranking up 16 threads to 5.4 GHz will produce some heat, but compiles will 
complete sooner too.  I think an air cooler will be equally as effective 
thermally, with fewer components to go wrong.  Either way, consider the space 
envelop in the case because some dual fan air-coolers can be rather large.


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[gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-15, Wols Lists  wrote:
> On 15/05/2024 11:40, Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> I think whoever named grub had delusions of grandeur.    Anyway, I never let
>> it near my systems.
>
> I liked lilo. And then it disappeared :-(
>
> Grub isn't that bad - it's just that insists on trying to do everything 
> itself - and if you've got at all a strange setup it makes a complete 
> hash of it.

Grub2 is a bit overblown, but it's quite usable as long as you stick
to a manually generated grub.cfg file and stay away from the
auto-magical disk-probing configuration script world-domination
scheme.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Grub, gpt partitions and BIOS, not uefi thing.

[Wols Lists]

On 15/05/2024 11:40, Peter Humphrey wrote:

I think whoever named grub had delusions of grandeur.    Anyway, I never let
it near my systems.


I liked lilo. And then it disappeared :-(

Grub isn't that bad - it's just that insists on trying to do everything 
itself - and if you've got at all a strange setup it makes a complete 
hash of it.


LIKE GENTOO!

I've moaned about this before, but last time SUSE updated itself, it 
trashed grub.conf and left me with an unbootable system. And then gentoo 
sees that I've got an unmounted /boot and throws a complete and utter 
hissy fit because I told it not to touch it ...


Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[Matt Connell]

On Wed, 2024-05-15 at 16:25 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
> You'll need kernel 5.18 and Mesa 22 plus recent firmware.
> 
> That article was almost 2 years old, so I'd be surprised if all those
> are not stable in Gentoo by now.

Mesa 22 is not.  Only version 24 is stable

:)

[gentoo-user] Re: Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-15, Michael  wrote:
> On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 15:37:22 BST Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2024-05-15, Michael  wrote:
>
>> > The Clipboard may be stored in RAM or cache of any applications
>> > which use this method.
>> 
>> AFAICT, the clipboard contents is stored in the X server. When you
>> cut/copy something, the application sends that something to the X
>> server where it's stored.  When that application exits, the clipboard
>> contents are still there in the X server, and can still be requested
>> by other applications who want to do a "paste".
>
> What you write makes sense.

I got curious, and did some more Googling. It looks like the clipboard
contents only survive application exit if the application explicitly
tells the server it wants the clipboard contents to persist.  But,
AFIACT, that's what all apps do.

> I am not sure what happens in Wayland, where application windows are
> supposed to be isolated.

I try not to think about Wayland and dread the day when I'm forced to switch. :)

It's taken me 40 years to figure out X (most-sort-of)...

> I recall in earlier days the Primary selection would not work
> between windows, which was rather frustrating.  I think at present
> the Plasma desktop clipboard application acts as a mediator,
> probably engaging Xwayland - but I am not sure.
>
> There are quite a few settings in Plasma's clipboard application to
> configure interoperability between Primary & Clipboard selection and
> can be set to save the Primary selection in the Clipboard section
> and its history if so desired.
>
> With my current settings I can middle click to paste a Primary
> selection into Konsole, but Shift+Insert which works with Xterm &
> friends does not work with Konsole.

There probably should have been a section on cutbuffers, selections,
and clipboards in the X11 section of the Unix Hater's Handbook.

 which I highly recommend, BTW:

  https://web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_UNIX-HATERS_Handbook

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Michael]

On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 15:37:22 BST Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2024-05-15, Michael  wrote:

> > The Clipboard may be stored in RAM or cache of any applications
> > which use this method.
> 
> AFAICT, the clipboard contents is stored in the X server. When you
> cut/copy something, the application sends that something to the X
> server where it's stored.  When that application exits, the clipboard
> contents are still there in the X server, and can still be requested
> by other applications who want to do a "paste".

What you write makes sense.

I am not sure what happens in Wayland, where application windows are supposed 
to be isolated.  I recall in earlier days the Primary selection would not work 
between windows, which was rather frustrating.  I think at present the Plasma 
desktop clipboard application acts as a mediator, probably engaging Xwayland - 
but I am not sure.

There are quite a few settings in Plasma's clipboard application to configure 
interoperability between Primary & Clipboard selection and can be set to save 
the Primary selection in the Clipboard section and its history if so desired.

With my current settings I can middle click to paste a Primary selection into 
Konsole, but Shift+Insert which works with Xterm & friends does not work with 
Konsole.


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[gentoo-user] Re: Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-15, Alan Mackenzie  wrote:

> But in the doc on wiki.gentoo.org, I can't find any mention of inbuilt
> graphics; all references are to graphics _cards_.  Does Gentoo support
> my intended processor's graphics,

Technically, no. Gentoo doesn't.  However, the Linux kernel, Xorg, and
Mesa do. You'll need "recent" versions of those.  According to this
article:

https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen7-7700x

You'll need kernel 5.18 and Mesa 22 plus recent firmware.

That article was almost 2 years old, so I'd be surprised if all those
are not stable in Gentoo by now.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 15:23:47 BST Alan Mackenzie wrote:

> So I'm looking at getting an AMD Ryzen 7 7700X processor, and using its
> inbuilt graphics rather than buying a distinct graphics card.
> 
> But in the doc on wiki.gentoo.org, I can't find any mention of inbuilt
> graphics; all references are to graphics _cards_.  Does Gentoo support
> my intended processor's graphics, and if so, how do I go about
> identifying the needed microcode (if any) and so on?  Am I missing
> something obvious in the wiki?

The AMD website says it uses Radeon graphics, so it seems to be covered, as 
long as you have a USB-C connector.


> As a somewhat tangential question, would it be worthwhile getting water
> cooling in my new machine?  In particular, to reduce the noise it gives
> off while building large packages such as clang and rust?  Or is water
> cooling only sensible for really heavy users such as gamers?
> 
> Thanks for the upcoming answers!


-- 
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[Dale]

Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> Hello, Gentoo.
>
> My current rig is working well (hence the lack of posts to the list from
> me), but 
>
> The time is coming up for me to buy a new PC, the current one being
> around 7 years old.  It's served me well for that time, but nothing
> lasts forever.  Also, it would be nice to be able to build clang and
> rust and friends somewhat faster.
>
> So I'm looking at getting an AMD Ryzen 7 7700X processor, and using its
> inbuilt graphics rather than buying a distinct graphics card.
>
> But in the doc on wiki.gentoo.org, I can't find any mention of inbuilt
> graphics; all references are to graphics _cards_.  Does Gentoo support
> my intended processor's graphics, and if so, how do I go about
> identifying the needed microcode (if any) and so on?  Am I missing
> something obvious in the wiki?
>
> As a somewhat tangential question, would it be worthwhile getting water
> cooling in my new machine?  In particular, to reduce the noise it gives
> off while building large packages such as clang and rust?  Or is water
> cooling only sensible for really heavy users such as gamers?
>
> Thanks for the upcoming answers!
>


On the cooling point, I notice that newer CPUs actually consume less
power therefore produce less heat.  I've never used water.  I don't have
anything to drink close to my puter either.  I suspect that if you got a
pretty good size air CPU cooler, with a large quiet fan, you will find
it pretty quiet.  I have a FX-8350 right now.  I can't recall the power
it pulls right now but it is more than the newer CPUs.  I have a CPU
cooler with a 120mm fan and even at full load, I don't hear anything and
I'm right next to it.  I don't even hear the large case fans.  Keep in
mind, those case fans are 200mm fans. 

Some prefer water and for those who do, use water.  I just don't see why
newer CPUs that produce less heat would need water when air cooling
works fine on CPUs that produce more heat.  If you would rather avoid
water, I can't imagine a good air CPU cooler with a large fan not being
more than enough.  I might add, I'm always scared the pump will decide
to take a nap.  At least with a air cooler, it will cool some even
without a fan.  Could prevent burning out the CPU if you shutdown quick.

Maybe when I get me a new rig built I can share personal experience.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 14:37:22 BST Michael wrote:
>
>> There are 3 'cliboards', known as selections, I know of:
>>
>> 1. Primary - you select some text by holding down your left mouse button (or
>> Shift+arrow) and you paste it with your middle button (or Shift+Insert -
>> depending on application).
>>
>> 2. Secondary - some applications will autoselect text, e.g. when you click
>> in the non-empty address bar of a browser.  This can replace any selection
>> you had in the Primary selection.  It depends on the particular
>> application.
>>
>> 3. Clipboard - this is the Ctrl+x/c/v MSWindows style of cut/copy/paste menu
>> items.
> I just think of them simply as a selection buffer and a paste buffer. It 
> obviates any more complicated mental models.
>
>> I understand there's a new disk technology about to be released upon us with
>> laser heating up the area where data is being stored, to increase density
>> and therefore hugely increase capacity.  Your next spinning drive could
>> well be 30-50T or more!  0_0
> Oo-er!
>
> -- Regards, Peter.


This explanation makes sense.  Looks like once I highlight something
else, it forgets the previous highlight.  That goes with how it seems to
work as well. 

On the larger hard drives, I just bought a Fractal case that holds at
least 18 drives.  Now this.  :-D 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-15, Michael  wrote:

> As far as I know the Primary selection is not stored anywhere -
> other than within the application's memory space where the range of
> characters have been selected. The xserver will call for this when
> you middle click to paste it on another application's window.


Right. When you highlight some text, the application asserts ownership
of the primary selection, but no contents of the selection are
transferred to the X server.

So, the X server knows who owns the selection, but it doesn't actually
store the contents anywhere. If you middle-click on a window, the X
server will make a call to the owner of selection to get the selection
contents and then provide that contents to the active window.

When process (X client) that owns the selection exits, the selection
becomes "empty" (unavailable).

> The Clipboard may be stored in RAM or cache of any applications
> which use this method.

AFAICT, the clipboard contents is stored in the X server. When you
cut/copy something, the application sends that something to the X
server where it's stored.  When that application exits, the clipboard
contents are still there in the X server, and can still be requested
by other applications who want to do a "paste".

With the usual behavior, the selection and clipboard sort of overlap:

When you highlight something the application asserts ownership of the
primary selection, but nothing is transferred to the X server. If you
then do a "copy", the application will send that highlighted text to
the clipbard.

If you haven't selected anything else, now you can either middle-click
or paste, and you'll get the same thing.

If you exit the app, then middle-click will produce nothing because
there is no selection owner. But, paste will still get the "copied"
data from the X server.

That said, something doesn't have to be selected (in the X11 sense) to
be copied into the clipboard -- but that's how most applications work
first you select (in the X11 sense) something then you copy it to the
clipboard.

--
Grant

[gentoo-user] Graphics configuration for a Ryzen 7 7700X chip and water cooling.

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Gentoo.

My current rig is working well (hence the lack of posts to the list from
me), but 

The time is coming up for me to buy a new PC, the current one being
around 7 years old.  It's served me well for that time, but nothing
lasts forever.  Also, it would be nice to be able to build clang and
rust and friends somewhat faster.

So I'm looking at getting an AMD Ryzen 7 7700X processor, and using its
inbuilt graphics rather than buying a distinct graphics card.

But in the doc on wiki.gentoo.org, I can't find any mention of inbuilt
graphics; all references are to graphics _cards_.  Does Gentoo support
my intended processor's graphics, and if so, how do I go about
identifying the needed microcode (if any) and so on?  Am I missing
something obvious in the wiki?

As a somewhat tangential question, would it be worthwhile getting water
cooling in my new machine?  In particular, to reduce the noise it gives
off while building large packages such as clang and rust?  Or is water
cooling only sensible for really heavy users such as gamers?

Thanks for the upcoming answers!

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: [gentoo-user] Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 14:37:22 BST Michael wrote:

> There are 3 'cliboards', known as selections, I know of:
> 
> 1. Primary - you select some text by holding down your left mouse button (or
> Shift+arrow) and you paste it with your middle button (or Shift+Insert -
> depending on application).
> 
> 2. Secondary - some applications will autoselect text, e.g. when you click
> in the non-empty address bar of a browser.  This can replace any selection
> you had in the Primary selection.  It depends on the particular
> application.
> 
> 3. Clipboard - this is the Ctrl+x/c/v MSWindows style of cut/copy/paste menu
> items.

I just think of them simply as a selection buffer and a paste buffer. It 
obviates any more complicated mental models.

> I understand there's a new disk technology about to be released upon us with
> laser heating up the area where data is being stored, to increase density
> and therefore hugely increase capacity.  Your next spinning drive could
> well be 30-50T or more!  0_0

Oo-er!

-- 
Regards,
Peter.


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Re: [gentoo-user] Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Michael]

On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 14:09:01 BST Dale wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 11:56:04 BST Dale wrote:

> >> There doesn't appear to be a xclip on here, not as a command anyway.
> >> Could it be some other name?  Maybe it changed?  I'm sure it is
> >> something.  I just don't know what.
> >> 
> >> Thanks.
> >> 
> >> Dale
> >> 
> >> :-)  :-)
> > 
> > x11-misc/xclip
> > 
> > Or just select some empty space in an application, to overwrite your
> > previous selection.
> 
> Well, since it works, something is acting as a clipboard.  It doesn't
> seem to be xclip in my case.  Anyway, that's what I been doing is
> highlighting something else and that makes it paste the new highlighted
> info instead of previous info.  I have no idea if those entries are
> stored somewhere or when gone, they gone.  I'm hoping they are gone. 

There are 3 'cliboards', known as selections, I know of:

1. Primary - you select some text by holding down your left mouse button (or 
Shift+arrow) and you paste it with your middle button (or Shift+Insert - 
depending on application).

2. Secondary - some applications will autoselect text, e.g. when you click in 
the non-empty address bar of a browser.  This can replace any selection you 
had in the Primary selection.  It depends on the particular application.

3. Clipboard - this is the Ctrl+x/c/v MSWindows style of cut/copy/paste menu 
items.

More details can be found in the spec here:

https://specifications.freedesktop.org/clipboards-spec/clipboards-latest.txt

As far as I know the Primary selection is not stored anywhere - other than 
within the application's memory space where the range of characters have been 
selected.  The xserver will call for this when you middle click to paste it on 
another application's window.

The Clipboard may be stored in RAM or cache of any applications which use this 
method.


> P. S. My new 16TB drive is almost done with the long SMART test.  :-D 

I understand there's a new disk technology about to be released upon us with 
laser heating up the area where data is being stored, to increase density and 
therefore hugely increase capacity.  Your next spinning drive could well be 
30-50T or more!  0_0
  

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[gentoo-user] Re: Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-15, Dale  wrote:

>> Or just select some empty space in an application, to overwrite your 
>> previous 
>> selection.
>
> Well, since it works, something is acting as a clipboard.

It's part of the X server.  Same for the two selections.

> It doesn't seem to be xclip in my case.  Anyway, that's what I been
> doing is highlighting something else and that makes it paste the new
> highlighted info instead of previous info.  I have no idea if those
> entries are stored somewhere or when gone, they gone.  I'm hoping
> they are gone. 

[gentoo-user] Re: Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2024-05-15, Dale  wrote:

> I thought that too.  I highlighted some text in a Konsole and then
> looked in the KDE clipboard, what I highlighted was not there. 
>
> It wasn't there after I pasted it either.  It goes to a clipboard
> somewhere but it appears it only remembers one entry then forgets
> when you highlight something else.

You're conflating to different but related things.

In X, the selection and the clipboard are two different "places".

When you click-drag to highlight text, that goes into the selection.
In X, there are actually two different selections: the primary and the
secondary. By default highlighted text goes into the primary
selection.

Middle-clicking shoves the contents of the primary selection into
stdin for whatever window is selected.

When you do "cut" or "copy" something, it goes into the clipboard.

When you "paste" it comes from the clipboard.

xclip can access (read or write) all three (primary selection,
secondary selection, and clipboard).

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/139191/whats-the-difference-between-primary-selection-and-clipboard-buffer
https://superuser.com/questions/90257/what-is-the-difference-between-the-x-clipboards
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/mgr0v/til_x11_has_three_clipboards/

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Dale]

Michael wrote:
> On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 11:56:04 BST Dale wrote:
>> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 03:44:49 -0500, Dale wrote:
 I thought that too.  I highlighted some text in a Konsole and then
 looked in the KDE clipboard, what I highlighted was not there.  It
 wasn't there after I pasted it either.  It goes to a clipboard somewhere
 but it appears it only remembers one entry then forgets when you
 highlight something else.  I'm not aware of a way to access it yet. 
 I've looked for it but can't find it.  To be honest, I wish there was a
 way to clear it, wherever it is.  I clear my KDE clipboard that is on my
 desktop pretty regular.  I always do so after copying passwords or
 something important. 
>>> xclip manipulates both the standard and X selection clipboards. It works
>>> with the X selection clipboard by default, so you shold be able to clear
>>> it with
>>>
>>> echo "" | xclip
>>>
 I'm wondering if that clipboard is a part of Konsole itself.  I've never
 seen anything in the KDE clipboard that I just highlighted in Konsole. 
>>> It's part of X.
>>>
 I could use Bitwarden to generate passwords but then I'd need to copy it
 to my regular clipboard to get it to the Konsole.  I wanted to avoid
 that.
>>> Bitwarden has an option to clear the clipboard after a configurable time,
>>> much like KeePassXC.
>>>
>>> Naturally, if you are really paranoid about security, you will run your
>>> own Vaultwarden server to avoid the passwords ever going anywhere out of
>>> your control.
>> I wanted to check out the help info, maybe learn something new.  This is
>> what I get when trying to find xclip.
>>
>>
>> root@fireball / # xc 
>> xcam  xchm  xcircuit 
>> root@fireball / #
>>
>>
>> There doesn't appear to be a xclip on here, not as a command anyway. 
>> Could it be some other name?  Maybe it changed?  I'm sure it is
>> something.  I just don't know what. 
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> x11-misc/xclip
>
> Or just select some empty space in an application, to overwrite your previous 
> selection.

Well, since it works, something is acting as a clipboard.  It doesn't
seem to be xclip in my case.  Anyway, that's what I been doing is
highlighting something else and that makes it paste the new highlighted
info instead of previous info.  I have no idea if those entries are
stored somewhere or when gone, they gone.  I'm hoping they are gone. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S. My new 16TB drive is almost done with the long SMART test.  :-D 

Re: [gentoo-user] Encrypted drives, password generation and management howto, guide.

[Michael]

On Wednesday, 15 May 2024 11:56:04 BST Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Wed, 15 May 2024 03:44:49 -0500, Dale wrote:
> >> I thought that too.  I highlighted some text in a Konsole and then
> >> looked in the KDE clipboard, what I highlighted was not there.  It
> >> wasn't there after I pasted it either.  It goes to a clipboard somewhere
> >> but it appears it only remembers one entry then forgets when you
> >> highlight something else.  I'm not aware of a way to access it yet. 
> >> I've looked for it but can't find it.  To be honest, I wish there was a
> >> way to clear it, wherever it is.  I clear my KDE clipboard that is on my
> >> desktop pretty regular.  I always do so after copying passwords or
> >> something important. 
> > 
> > xclip manipulates both the standard and X selection clipboards. It works
> > with the X selection clipboard by default, so you shold be able to clear
> > it with
> > 
> > echo "" | xclip
> > 
> >> I'm wondering if that clipboard is a part of Konsole itself.  I've never
> >> seen anything in the KDE clipboard that I just highlighted in Konsole. 
> > 
> > It's part of X.
> > 
> >> I could use Bitwarden to generate passwords but then I'd need to copy it
> >> to my regular clipboard to get it to the Konsole.  I wanted to avoid
> >> that.
> > 
> > Bitwarden has an option to clear the clipboard after a configurable time,
> > much like KeePassXC.
> > 
> > Naturally, if you are really paranoid about security, you will run your
> > own Vaultwarden server to avoid the passwords ever going anywhere out of
> > your control.
> 
> I wanted to check out the help info, maybe learn something new.  This is
> what I get when trying to find xclip.
> 
> 
> root@fireball / # xc 
> xcam  xchm  xcircuit 
> root@fireball / #
> 
> 
> There doesn't appear to be a xclip on here, not as a command anyway. 
> Could it be some other name?  Maybe it changed?  I'm sure it is
> something.  I just don't know what. 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

x11-misc/xclip

Or just select some empty space in an application, to overwrite your previous 
selection.


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