[gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar wrote: Than why did you top post? More importantly: Why do you full quote? trimming is good -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Holly Bostick wrote: Oooh, so it's a double joke (in both binary and decimal). Now I like it even more. ok.. I have another geeky joke for you, then.. Why do programmers always confuse Halloween and Christmas? Because oct31 = dec25 --b -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar wrote: Because oct 31 is the same as dec 25. bah.. you beat me to it.. dupe post -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Billy Holmes schrieb: Alexander Skwar wrote: Because oct 31 is the same as dec 25. bah.. you beat me to it.. dupe post :) Well, how do they say? 2nd place is 1st loser? *G* Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schrieb: Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. And why do you need HTML there? Anyway, Mozilla/Thunderbird makes it very easy to decide if HTML is used or not - when you set the default to text/plain, you hold down shift while you click on the Compose, Reply, Reply All or Forward button. This will then create an HTML mail. I can't change the whole world just for one list. No need to. Even in other mails, there's seldom a need for HTML in mails. Sorry. Not really. BTW: Please trim your quotes. Fullquotes are bad. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
I can't change the whole world just for one list. No need to. Even in other mails, there's seldom a need for HTML in mails. I too am interested in useful contexts for html. I just can't think of any situation where I wouldn't use structured text markup in an email. Sure, I might *attach* an html document (or pdf or even, god forbid, an MSWord doc!) but that is different (even if it gets displayed just like a message would...). Maybe I have an old-fashioned view of email but I see more expressive means of communication better served with other technologies (IM, etc.) Cheers Antoine ps. since stopping top-posting on lists I have since stopped top-posting *anywhere*. People who have a list of questions and answer them two posts up without any real reference to the questions are simply poor communicators... and that is certainly what I see a lot of. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. And why do you need HTML there? Anyway, Mozilla/Thunderbird makes it very easy to decide if HTML is used or not - when you set the default to text/plain, you hold down shift while you click on the Compose, Reply, Reply All or Forward button. This will then create an HTML mail. Because I send pictures and make my text have color and all that stuff. Ain't that HTML? Ain't no list getting between me and my lady. No way! Alexander Skwar
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao schrieb: On 10/30/05, Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dale schrieb: Me too. Badly translated joke. It should read: There are 10 kinds of people. Then it is funny. It takes a bit of time to get the joke, :) It has nothing to do with binary system. :P While we're at the matter of jokes and because it currently fits: Why do programmers get Holloween and Christmas confused? Because oct 31 is the same as dec 25. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Holly Bostick schrieb: Dale schreef: he's trying to say computers can't count. No, I'm not. The other joke is similar, but goes like this There are 10 kinds of people in the world Those who understand binary, and those who don't (1 is yes in binary language, which only consists of the letters 1 and 0, and is the basis of all computer languages, and 0 means no). Interesting explanation :) I always explained that joke, like this: 10 in binary is 2 in decimal. But if you don't know about binary, you read 10 and might think decimal 10. If you think that, than it's kind of strange to only name 2 types of people. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Antoine schrieb: I can't change the whole world just for one list. No need to. Even in other mails, there's seldom a need for HTML in mails. I too am interested in useful contexts for html. I just can't think of any situation where I wouldn't use structured text markup in an email. Well, if you need more than just *bold*, /italics/ or _underline_. It might make a text easier to read, if important things are highlighted or whatnot. Also, links can be done nicer; eg. a long URL should be linked, but the *TARGET* isn't important but just what's written there. Eg. a href=http://google.com/;searchengine/a or something like that. ps. since stopping top-posting on lists I have since stopped top-posting *anywhere*. People who have a list of questions and answer them two posts up without any real reference to the questions are simply poor communicators... and that is certainly what I see a lot of. Exactly. Actually, I think that this top posting junk only came up, because a certain piece of crap from Microsoft didn't support threading for FAR too long. And without threading, fullquotes are somewhat helpful (and top posts most of the time include a full quote). Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schrieb: Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. And why do you need HTML there? Anyway, Mozilla/Thunderbird makes it very easy to decide if HTML is used or not - when you set the default to text/plain, you hold down shift while you click on the Compose, Reply, Reply All or Forward button. This will then create an HTML mail. Because I send pictures and make my text have color and all that stuff. Fine. But where was the gain in sending that mail to which I'm replying to in HTML? Ain't that HTML? Sure. But here, you did not do that. When you do send stuff which requires HTML, go ahead and use it - but it just makes no sense to use it as a default. Ain't no list getting between me and my lady. No way! Are you always that egoistic? Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schreef: Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. And why do you need HTML there? Anyway, Mozilla/Thunderbird makes it very easy to decide if HTML is used or not - when you set the default to text/plain, you hold down shift while you click on the Compose, Reply, Reply All or Forward button. This will then create an HTML mail. Because I send pictures and make my text have color and all that stuff. Ain't that HTML? Ain't no list getting between me and my lady. No way! Who said anything about 'getting between you and your lady'? That's *personal* mail, and this list, nor any other list, cares what you do in your personal mail. But mail sent to this list is *public* mail, and such public mail has preferences for display and use so that it can reach the widest area of public view possible-- those who read the list via text readers, those who read it via newsgroups (some of which do not accept/display HTML), those who read it via webmail (and some of those don't display HTML either, or only do so with certain browsers, which any given person may or may not be using at that moment), those who read the archives, those who filter it, those who thread it, those who do not have much time and only want to read what they are interested in, and are not going to be scrolling and trimming just to do you a favor... don't forget, you are asking for *help from a stranger*-- that's a favor in anybody's book. Both Alexander and I have shown you how you can 'fix' mail for *this list only*, without bothering any of your other mail, where you can, as I said, do what you like. Nobody cares, or if they do, it's their problem to tell you about. But if you want us to help you, for free, out of the kindness of our hearts, it's not only polite to consider our relatively mild and minor conditions, but worse, it's *impolite* to reject them so violently. Getting on the bad side of those you want aid and succor from is simply dim, in strategic terms. Strategically, as the person who needs help, you want to make it as easy as possible for as many people as possible to read *and understand* your mail, so that they can answer your question. And yes, that means plain-text to reduce irrelevant data and bandwidth; it means appropriately trimming, to reduce wasted time; it means proper subjects and not hijacking threads. You are of course free to ignore these mild conditions, but you may well find that your question goes unanswered, because the people who could answer it could not or would not read your post (they couldn't understand it because it was in the middle of a mixed top- and bottom- posted thread; it was in HTML and they use mutt; it was a hijack-by-subject name of a thread they had filtered so they never saw it; you are now on their 'ignore' list because you're snarking so severely over something so stupid, and they don't read any of your posts). I myself prefer success (getting my question answered) to the 'moral high ground' of doing things the way I want them within a community setting and be damned to the rest of you, but if you prefer it the other way around, that is your right, and you can have the consequences as well, for all of me. But, whatever. I'm really out of this. It's too ridiculous. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar schreef: Holly Bostick schrieb: The other joke is similar, but goes like this There are 10 kinds of people in the world Those who understand binary, and those who don't (1 is yes in binary language, which only consists of the letters 1 and 0, and is the basis of all computer languages, and 0 means no). Interesting explanation :) I always explained that joke, like this: 10 in binary is 2 in decimal. But if you don't know about binary, you read 10 and might think decimal 10. If you think that, than it's kind of strange to only name 2 types of people. Oooh, so it's a double joke (in both binary and decimal). Now I like it even more. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. Because I send pictures and make my text have color and all that stuff. Ain't that HTML? Ain't no list getting between me and my lady. No way! You're guilty of terrible bad taste :) . I exchange plain text emails with my lady and all my friends, and I filter out any HTML (I force visualization as plain text). If I want to send pictures, I attach them. This way my email is a collection of senseful conversation, not random chromatic noise. m. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. And why do you need HTML there? Anyway, Mozilla/Thunderbird makes it very easy to decide if HTML is used or not - when you set the default to text/plain, you hold down shift while you click on the Compose, Reply, Reply All or Forward button. This will then create an HTML mail. Because I send pictures and make my text have color and all that stuff. Fine. But where was the gain in sending that mail to which I'm replying to in HTML? Ain't that HTML? Sure. But here, you did not do that. When you do send stuff which requires HTML, go ahead and use it - but it just makes no sense to use it as a default. Ain't no list getting between me and my lady. No way! Are you always that egoistic? Alexander Skwar Well, I have Mozilla set up to send both types, plain and HTML, so that you can get whatever you want. It makes it take longer to send over my slow dial-up but I thought it polite, maybe it is not after all. To be honest, I just joined the list a few days ago and it is getting to be a bit much. It was sort of humorous at first but I can't seem to please everybody. Maybe I should just cancel and go somewhere else. Would that be OK??? Dale
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schreef: Well, I have Mozilla set up to send both types, plain and HTML, so that you can get whatever you want. It makes it take longer to send over my slow dial-up but I thought it polite, maybe it is not after all. In that case, you're wasting your own bandwidth, since many of us don't even want the HTML part and plain text is perfectly good enough for this list. If you told Mozmail to just send the text part to this list Edit=Preferences= Composition= Text composition= Send Options button= Plain text domains tab =Add button = type lists.gentoo.org and hit OK it would save you bandwidth and us a headache. To be honest, I just joined the list a few days ago and it is getting to be a bit much. It was sort of humorous at first but I can't seem to please everybody. Maybe I should just cancel and go somewhere else. Would that be OK??? I wish you'd make up your mind if we are the boss of you or not. We are the unwanted boss of you, since you refuse to just follow a couple of simple steps to produce more satisfactory mail, but now we are the wanted boss of you, who must permit you to unsubscribe to the list? It's your bloody life, if you want to unsubscribe, then do that... you don't need me/us to tell you whether it's OK or not! Holly (who clearly doesn't have enough to do today, if 10 minutes after saying she's out, is back in. Sigh.) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Holly Bostick wrote: Dale schreef: Well, I have Mozilla set up to send both types, plain and HTML, so that you can get whatever you want. It makes it take longer to send over my slow dial-up but I thought it polite, maybe it is not after all. In that case, you're wasting your own bandwidth, since many of us don't even want the HTML part and plain text is perfectly good enough for this list. If you told Mozmail to just send the text part to this list Edit=Preferences= Composition= Text composition= Send Options button= Plain text domains tab =Add button = type "lists.gentoo.org" and hit OK it would save you bandwidth and us a headache. If I am that big of a headache, so sorry I came here. I used to wonder why more people didn't try to help people that use Linux, I beginning to see why. You join a list and have to turn yourself upside down to please everyone else. It gives me a headache now. To be honest, I just joined the list a few days ago and it is getting to be a bit much. It was sort of humorous at first but I can't seem to please everybody. Maybe I should just cancel and go somewhere else. Would that be OK??? I wish you'd make up your mind if we are the boss of you or not. We are the unwanted boss of you, since you refuse to just follow a couple of simple steps to produce more satisfactory mail, but now we are the wanted boss of you, who must permit you to unsubscribe to the list? It's your bloody life, if you want to unsubscribe, then do that... you don't need me/us to tell you whether it's OK or not! Sounds fine to me. I came here to see if I could help someone. I guess I'm to big hearted and to easy to get taken advantage of. Oh, I'm the boss of me. When I have had enough, I'm done. Good Bye. Sorry to be such a headache. Dale Holly (who clearly doesn't have enough to do today, if 10 minutes after saying she's out, is back in. Sigh.)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On 10/31/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Holly Bostick wrote: Dale schreef: If I am that big of a headache, so sorry I came here. I used to wonder why more people didn't try to help people that use Linux, I beginning to see why. You join a list and have to turn yourself upside down to please everyone else. It gives me a headache now. You are not turning yourself upside down, and you don't have to. Not sending HTML and try not to top-post isn't that hard to do, almost everybody else on this list knows how to do that, and I don't see why you can't. -- Joe -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: You are not turning yourself upside down, and you don't have to. Not sending HTML and try not to top-post isn't that hard to do, almost everybody else on this list knows how to do that, and I don't see why you can't. -- Joe Funny, I feel turned upside down. I'm not everybody else either, I'm me. I like to help people but I don't want to change who I am to do it. Is this better? It should be text whatever, not HTML. I'm getting to where I don't want to reply at all. Maybe I don't have enough to offer here. To be really honest, I have only ever used Mozilla mail for this list and have no clue what you guys, and Holly, are talking about with text only stuff. I have never seen a command line email before. I built this rig about three years ago, my first computer that was mine, and picked Linux over windoze. I used to work on computers when windoze came out and I changed careers. I'm disabled, Linux is cheap, no viruses and stable as it gets to boot. I have not regretted picking Linux but I have regretted some other things though, forums and such. I'm only 38 but maybe I'm to old for this stuff. I thought this may be better than the forums but maybe I was wrong. I have been wrong before, a lot. Trusting Doctors was one time I was wrong for sure. No HTML, if it works right. Dale :-) -- This ain't HTML is it? I'm trying to smile anyway. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: You are not turning yourself upside down, and you don't have to. Not sending HTML and try not to top-post isn't that hard to do, almost everybody else on this list knows how to do that, and I don't see why you can't. -- Joe I'm not sure that last one worked right either. It was supposed to ask before sending, it didn't. I added this domain to plain text, something I just lucked up and found in preferences. Maybe this will work. Let me know if it does or not. Dale -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Hi, nobody wants to hurt, harm or insult you. It is just that 95% of all public mailing lists have this two simple rules: no top posting no html A lot of people don't even read html mails, some even get angry about them, so when somebody tells you, not to send them, (s)he does it to help you. The less people reading your mails, the less usefull answers you get. And some mailing lists are very harsh - one html mail and you are the ass of the week for them. Plus, not using html does spare you and everybody else some time sending/receiving your mails, so it is a double win for everybody when you don't use it. That is all. You are, of course, free to send plain text and html, but as I said, most people don't read html mails anyway, so it is just some wasted bandwith. When you are exchanging mails off list, it is a completly different topic. If your friends read html-mails and don't mind receiving them - or even like them, you are free to send them as you like. But mailing lists are a little bit different - because there are a lot of receivers. And did I mention, that some people discard html-mails automatically as spam? So, when you got told not to top post or use html mails, (s)he didn't want to do anything 'bad' to you - the opposite is true, (s)he wants to help you to reach as many other users as possible - which should be what you want, right? Sometimes this 'educating' may sound much harsher than ment - but don't forget, that for a lot of people on this (or every public) mailing list english is only the second or third language - and hitting the right 'tone' is not easy, if you are not a native speaker. So don't feel bad - we all just want to help you, to make the mailing list as productive and helpfull for you as possible. Glück Auf Volker -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On 10/31/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure that last one worked right either. It was supposed to ask before sending, it didn't. I added this domain to plain text, something I just lucked up and found in preferences. Maybe this will work. Let me know if it does or not. It worked. :) -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On 10/31/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funny, I feel turned upside down. I'm not everybody else either, I'm me. I like to help people but I don't want to change who I am to do it. It's just like moving into a new neighbourhood, you have to take your time to get acquainted, it is natural to feel a bit uncomfortable at the begining, but that's not how it is. Once you get used to things, you'll be part of that neighbourhood. People on the list do plaintext messages and stuff not just for themselves, but the entire list. I understand you are here to help, so don't let your effort be undermined simply because others filter HTML messages and you happen to send them out. Is this better? Much better, :) It should be text whatever, not HTML. I'm getting to where I don't want to reply at all. Maybe I don't have enough to offer here. To be really honest, I have only ever used Mozilla mail for this list and have no clue what you guys, and Holly, are talking about with text only stuff. I have never seen a command line email before. I built this rig about three years ago, my first computer that was mine, and picked Linux over windoze. Everyone has something to offer, and everyone will have questions. Again, as I've said, don't let HTML ruin your chance of offering or getting help. I'm not entirely against HTML, but if I'm on a list, I'd follow the list's culture, :) Don't feel isolated, you aren't. We did what we did in the hope that you'll get to know the list, and how things work here quicker, so you can adapt yourself to the list, and begin to see the benefit of it. We aren't trying to drive you away mate, :) We are doing just the opposite. Hope that'll make you feel better. :) -- Joe -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schrieb: Well, I have Mozilla set up to send both types, plain and HTML, so that you can get whatever you want. Yes, you can setup Mozilla that way. It makes it take longer to send over my slow dial-up but I thought it polite, maybe it is not after all. HTML most often ist not polite. Especially not, if it's not used - like you just did now. To be honest, I just joined the list a few days ago and it is getting to be a bit much. Well. No wonder. It was sort of humorous at first but I can't seem to please everybody. Well, not everybody. But the way you're acting, you'll please close to nobody... Maybe I should just cancel and go somewhere else. Would that be OK??? Do whatever you like. PS: Why did you use HTML for that post? Why did you do a fullquote? Where was the gain in both actions? Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: On 10/31/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure that last one worked right either. It was supposed to ask before sending, it didn't. I added this domain to plain text, something I just lucked up and found in preferences. Maybe this will work. Let me know if it does or not. It worked. :) I wonder which one worked, the telling it to ask first, which it didn't, or setting the domain thing. If this one works, I don't care which one it is. If everybody is happy, I'm happy to. Everybody is happy right? I can't tell any difference over here. It looks the same to me. scratches head Did it work this time too? I'm confused. It's OK, it's normal for me. Dale :-) --- Not HTML right? I put in : - ) with no spaces. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: Hi, nobody wants to hurt, harm or insult you. It is just that 95% of all public mailing lists have this two simple rules: no top posting no html A lot of people don't even read html mails, some even get angry about them, so when somebody tells you, not to send them, (s)he does it to help you. The less people reading your mails, the less usefull answers you get. And some mailing lists are very harsh - one html mail and you are the ass of the week for them. Plus, not using html does spare you and everybody else some time sending/receiving your mails, so it is a double win for everybody when you don't use it. That is all. You are, of course, free to send plain text and html, but as I said, most people don't read html mails anyway, so it is just some wasted bandwith. When you are exchanging mails off list, it is a completly different topic. If your friends read html-mails and don't mind receiving them - or even like them, you are free to send them as you like. But mailing lists are a little bit different - because there are a lot of receivers. And did I mention, that some people discard html-mails automatically as spam? So, when you got told not to top post or use html mails, (s)he didn't want to do anything 'bad' to you - the opposite is true, (s)he wants to help you to reach as many other users as possible - which should be what you want, right? Sometimes this 'educating' may sound much harsher than ment - but don't forget, that for a lot of people on this (or every public) mailing list english is only the second or third language - and hitting the right 'tone' is not easy, if you are not a native speaker. So don't feel bad - we all just want to help you, to make the mailing list as productive and helpfull for you as possible. Glück Auf Volker Thanks, I needed that. Can I assume english is not your native language? The writing was fine, the name gave it away though. I do like to read those who have bad english sometimes. It may take me a minute to figure it out but they need help too. Most would just pass them by and not even try to help. I'm getting there. Thanks again, Dale -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: It's just like moving into a new neighbourhood, you have to take your time to get acquainted, it is natural to feel a bit uncomfortable at the begining, but that's not how it is. Once you get used to things, you'll be part of that neighbourhood. I live in the country, about 10 miles out. I can't throw a rock and hit my closest neighbor. I can't even see them. If things work out with my lady and I move, it will be pretty tough. She lives in apartments in the city. She's that nice. Amazing how a 100 lb lady can move me. O_O Yup, she's tiny. Hope that'll make you feel better. :) It helped. -- Joe Dale :-) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On Monday 31 October 2005 15:43, Dale wrote: Thanks, I needed that. Can I assume english is not your native language? The writing was fine, the name gave it away though. I do like to read those who have bad english sometimes. It may take me a minute to figure it out but they need help too. Most would just pass them by and not even try to help. you are correct, english was my second language (and latin my third). And I was so bad in english that I had to redo 7th grade... ;) Glück Auf Volker -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: you are correct, english was my second language (and latin my third). And I was so bad in english that I had to redo 7th grade... ;) Glück Auf Volker Don't worry, my english ain't all that great either. Bad part is, I only know english. O_O Dale -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale wrote: I can't tell any difference over here. It looks the same to me. scratches head Mozilla/Thunderbird will 'interpret' plain-text messages, so for example when you see this in Thunderbird, you will see that /this is italic/, *this is bold*, and _this is underlined_. No HTML coding necessary. It will also convert '' at the beginning of the line to the vertical lines that you see, and convert known smiley sequences to icons. It will also highlight links for you, and re-justify paragraphs, and probably a dozen or so other things... So it is normal that you would not notice any significant difference between plain-text and (simple) HTML-formatted messages in the normal view. But you can see the differences with View-Message Source. You might want to do this with some messages that you post, just to get an idea of how they really look in plain text. -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schreef: I wonder which one worked, the telling it to ask first, which it didn't, or setting the domain thing. I don't know why the asking thing didn't work (I'd have to look, and it's not really important anymore), but the domain thing doesn't have to ask you, because you've told it what to do. Don't worry, there is an explanation of what's going on, but I don't think you want to hear it; rest assured that all is working correctly at this point. snip I can't tell any difference over here. It looks the same to me. scratches head Well, there's nothing but text in this message, so there's no reason it should look different when displayed as HTML or as text (because there's nothing to display *but* text, which looks the same in HTML as it does plain) Did it work this time too? I'm confused. It's OK, it's normal for me. Well, you could look at your headers to see for sure, but that would probably confuse you more; suffice to say I've looked at the header for this mail, and it is plain text. Dale :-) --- Not HTML right? I put in : - ) with no spaces. No, it's not HTML-- a cute trick of Mozilla mail and Thunderbird is the ability to convert known smiley text to a graphic (it's a setting, on by default, but it can be turned off). It appears to me as a yellow smiley face as well (because I use Thunderbird and have the setting on), but to those using command-line email readers, it appears as a text smiley, which those users should be able to recognize just as well as the graphic. :-D Welcome back! Glad you let your huff go off without you :-) . Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schreef: Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: Sometimes this 'educating' may sound much harsher than ment - but don't forget, that for a lot of people on this (or every public) mailing list english is only the second or third language - and hitting the right 'tone' is not easy, if you are not a native speaker. Thanks, I needed that. Can I assume english is not your native language? The writing was fine, the name gave it away though. Tip: the name doesn't give it away, the email address (in combination with the name) does. (Sorry to use you as an example, Volker, but you're a good one for this). Dale, when reading mail in Mozilla (which of course I know you're doing), you might notice in the window where the mail content actually appears, next to the word Subject in the bar above the text of the mail, there's a little white box with a plus sign in it. That bar, for this mail, probably says: Subject: blah blah blah_Holly Bostick_ (as a link, that if you click it, will open up a compsition window addressed to me, so you can curse my name or tell me what a bi-atch I am, or whatever :-) ). The thing is, the designers of this mail program figure you don't necessarily want more information than that right at the outset; you most likely want to read the mail-- and that is most likely true. But you can easily get more information (though still simplified, unless you change certain other settings), by clicking that little white box next to the word Subject. If you do so, the bar containing the *mail header* will be expanded (taking up some of the display room of the mail itself, which is why it's normally not expanded) and you will be able to see the email address of the sender (as well as some other information. There is even more information contained in the headers, but these are 'Normal' headers; to see all the information, you would have to display Full headers, which is not necessary atm). So, getting back to Volker, yes, he has a very German name-- but anybody can have a very German name, if they're of German descent. But if you select a mail from him, and click that little white plus sign, you'll see that his email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm sure you know that .de means Germany, just as the .nl at the end of my email address indicates that I'm in The Netherlands. A guy with a German name, posting from Germany-- that's proof enough for me that Volker is in fact a native German, which of course means that his native language would be German. You'd never know it to talk to him on the list, though :-) . Anyway, this doesn't always work (for example, I'd never be able to guess where you're living from your email address, with its anonymous .net suffix), but it's a good place to start. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Holly, Well, I do have that little box checked and it displays Subject, From, Reply to, Date and To. I just didn't look. I'm really bad at names, I may have mentioned this before. I remember Holly because I know this really nice girl named Holly that lives over hear that I meet. She was a really nice lady. That is the only way I can remember names. If I meet someone that I can't associate with someone else, I'm in bad shape. One reason I had that open is in case I get a email from someone with a .ru on the end. I was on a dating site and a lot of them tell you they live somewhere around here then tell you later that they are in Russia and need money or someone to get them here. I just checked the email line and could usually pick them out, that and the english was usually pretty bad. Yes I did meet my lady on the net. She is really nice, a lot better than I thought I would find. She is just really tiny, little under 100 lbs. She eats good though and her daughter is slender too so I guess it is genetic or something. Me, I'm dalek on the Gentoo forums, we have spoke there before I think. I live in Mississippi USA, out in the country no less. My ISP is in Columbus Mississippi, or MS. You can google Columbus MS. I wish I could visit the Netherlands and Germany to for that matter. I see them on TV but being there with a camera would be better. I'm to scared to fly so I guess that won't hapen. I was scared of flying before 9/11 though, though that didn't help. I'm learning though. Keep 'em coming. Just takes me a while. :D lets see what that looks like, -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Why go through all this trouble trying to learn how to set up Mozilla mail? What's the benefit? I have been using YahooMail and GMail quite happily, where you have an easy, no-frills, light-weight interface, where you can customize exactly how you want to compose your response and arrange quotes and to what extent you want to quote someone. I think this whole thread is common sense. To me anyway. You give a short little quote to refresh people's memory of what you're replying to and give it just enough context without it getting too long and right under the quote you put your own response, so that there's a conversation-like flow. We should make an effort to keep personal stuff out of these lists. Everyone has enough problems of their own to start a drama. We just want to help each other out, further our knowledge, and contribute if we can be useful. Cheers Denis -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Denis wrote: Why go through all this trouble trying to learn how to set up Mozilla mail? What's the benefit? I have been using YahooMail and GMail quite happily, where you have an easy, no-frills, light-weight interface, where you can customize exactly how you want to compose your response and arrange quotes and to what extent you want to quote someone. Cheers Denis For me, gmail and yahoo mail is not a good choice, and I don't really care for them either. I'm on dial-up and only have one phone line. With Mozilla mail I can connect, download my email, disconnect, reply or compose new emails when I get the time, then reconnect and send them, then get more new ones too. I don't think I can do that with Yahoo or Gmail, that I know of anyway. I do have a yahoo account that I use to make sure I'm not going to get spam. I may check it once a month, if I don't forget. Which reminds me, it's been a long time since I checked it. Now may be a good time. Probably been a couple months, may have something. :/ Dale -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar wrote: Dale schrieb: I agree with your reasons I don't. Totally wrong. In every aspect. but some of the others have reasons too. I do like my reason better though. LOL I put LOL for those who read text only and not HTML. LOL, again. Don't send out HTML, please. Especially, if you don't make use of HTML features, as it then only wastes bandwidth with nothing useful being added. I do wish someone would pick a way and let it be the only way though. Yep. And it should NOT be your way. Full quotes don't make sense. It gets confusing when some top post and some bottom post. Yep. Then don't do it. That really wears out my mouse wheel. Go down, read a bit, then go up and read a bit, then back down again, repeat, repeat. That is when it gets confusing. Yep. That's why bullshit like this shouldn't be done. Quotes should be done in the way I do it. Not because I do it (that's no reason), but because that's the way it's been done for a long time and (more) importantly, because it's been proven to be good. Alexander Skwar Well, I'm trying to find out where to change it in Mozilla. I'm not having any luck either. I know I saw it once but I left it like it was. I don't change to many settings unless they are just something I see here, desktop settings or something. I just joined this thing so I have no idea how it has been done in the past, I just got here. Dale
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale wrote: Well, I'm trying to find out where to change it in Mozilla. I'm not having any luck either. I know I saw it once but I left it like it was. I don't change to many settings unless they are just something I see here, desktop settings or something. I just joined this thing so I have no idea how it has been done in the past, I just got here. Dale I found it. Is this better? I'm a bottom feeder, um poster. LOL I even took out some of the clutter above. Who cares anyway. Dale -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On 10/30/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dale wrote: I found it. Is this better? I'm a bottom feeder, um poster. LOL I even took out some of the clutter above. Well done, :) Trimming could be extremely useful, when you see a thread with over 30 replies. -- Joe -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. Money can't buy everything. Sometimes money can't even buy a gun... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: Well done, :) Trimming could be extremely useful, when you see a thread with over 30 replies. -- Joe Honestly, I like it all together in one place. That way you don't have to dig for it. I delete emails that are more than a week or so old. I do save the ones that have passwords to sites I have joined or something but the rest are generally gone. I do see your point. It makes it easier on the server and on us poor dial-up users. I duno. Makes me no difference. The setting is under mail and server settings by the way. Your sig confuses me. Three kinds of people but it only lists two. Where's the third? Is this where spammers get my email address? I notice it puts it in this thing. I'm going to take a bath and soak a while. I have a skin disease and cool/cold weather makes it mad. :( Later Dale -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On 10/30/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Qian Qiao wrote: Honestly, I like it all together in one place. That way you don't have to dig for it. I delete emails that are more than a week or so old. I do save the ones that have passwords to sites I have joined or something but the rest are generally gone. I do see your point. It makes it easier on the server and on us poor dial-up users. I duno. Makes me no difference. You don't have to keep the messages, archive of this list can be found on the net. The setting is under mail and server settings by the way. Your sig confuses me. Three kinds of people but it only lists two. Where's the third? Think harder, :P That's where your sense of humour come in. -- Joe -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. Money can't buy everything. Sometimes money can't even buy a gun... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: On 10/30/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You don't have to keep the messages, archive of this list can be found on the net. It can? Oh. I didn't know that. The setting is under mail and server settings by the way. Your sig confuses me. Three kinds of people but it only lists two. Where's the third? Think harder, :P That's where your sense of humour come in. Are you accusing me of having a sense of humor? LOL Maybe I'm the third kind. scratches head -- Joe I'm about to ask for some help here. Get ready for a new thingy. Dale
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On 10/30/05, Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Qian Qiao wrote: It can? Oh. I didn't know that. www.gmane.org Are you accusing me of having a sense of humor? LOL Maybe I'm the third kind. scratches head Here's the answer: cos I can't count, :P -- Joe -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schreef: Alexander Skwar wrote: Don't send out HTML, please. Especially, if you don't make use of HTML features, as it then only wastes bandwidth with nothing useful being added. Well, I'm trying to find out where to change it in Mozilla. Speaking of settings, mail can be set to be sent as plain text by default in Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail as follows (the settings given are for Thunderbird, but the Mozmail settings are very nearby in terms of finding them, if not exactly the same): To set all outgoing mail to be composed as plain-text: Acount Preferences=Composition and Addressing under the relevant account=uncheck Compose messages using HTML format Right underneath that, there is a checkbox dealing with quoting: If When I respond, quote the original mail in my reply is checked, use the drop-down menu below it to change Start my reply above the quoted text (which is default only because the word above comes alphabetically before the word below, it's not a judgement of preference or usefulness) to either Start my reply below the quoted text, or Select the quoted text (if you want to trim first). Or uncheck the box entirely and quote nothing (though that's not a good idea on this list, really). To set mail to this list only as plain-text, while leaving all others as whatever you want: Preferences (not Account Oppions, regular Preferences)= Composition; under HTML and Send Options; Text Composition behaviour (not exact; I'm translating from Dutch, as that's what my desktop is in, and my Dutch is not perfect, which is why my desktop is in it :-) ), click the Advanced button and go to the Plain Text domains tab. On this tab, click the Add button, then in the field that comes up, enter lists.gentoo.org and hit OK. This marks all mail going to this domain (which covers all our mailing lists) as only being able to receive plain-text mail. So no matter what you compose it in, Mozilla Mail/Thunderbired will convert it to plain text when sending (because you told it that that's the only format the domain will accept , which is kinda true-- most mailing lists will reject HTML mail outright, this one won't, but this ridiculously long argument should be proof enough that the list doesn't like it). You can, of course, add any domains of other mailing lists you might be on as well. Hope this is helpful to at least some of those floundering through this thread; learn to use your programs, people, is all I can say. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schrieb: Well, I'm trying to find out where to change it in Mozilla. Change what in Mozilla? There's nothing that you can change. You just read and insert your comments where appropriate and delete what's no longer relevant. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schrieb: I found it. Found what? Is this better? Better than what? Your previous way of top posting? No, it's not better. It's as bad. I'm a bottom feeder, um poster. Bad. LOL I even took out some of the clutter above. THIS is good. But you should take out even more. Who cares anyway. Basically everybody, I guess. Your quoting style makes it unnecessarily hard to follow what you mean. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Dale schrieb: Qian Qiao wrote: Well done, :) Trimming could be extremely useful, when you see a thread with over 30 replies. Honestly, I like it all together in one place. Me too. It's all in a folder containing all the mails. Further, there are archives on the web. That way you don't have to dig for it. Yep. I delete emails that are more than a week or so old. I don't. Because of your quoting style, everybody has to store loads of unnecessary cruft. It makes it easier on the server and on us poor dial-up users. Yep. And makes it easier to read. I duno. Makes me no difference. Fine. The setting is under mail and server settings by the way. Your sig confuses me. Me too. Badly translated joke. It should read: There are 10 kinds of people. Then it is funny. Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar schreef: Dale schrieb: Well, I'm trying to find out where to change it in Mozilla. Change what in Mozilla? There's nothing that you can change. Oh for Pete's sake, Alexander. You can so change stuff in Mozilla-- it's a *software suite*, containing a web browser/irc client, a mail client and a web composition utility. I presume Dale was referring to the Mozilla mail component, which can be configured just like any other program. In fact, my previous mail says how to do this, where Dale just said it could be done. You just read and insert your comments where appropriate and delete what's no longer relevant. Consider a nice walk, a beer, or other relaxing activity. Please. Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
I'm going to take a bath and soak a while. I have a skin disease and cool/cold weather makes it mad. :( Come and live in Bordeaux then! It was 24°C today... I knew there was a reason we moved here :-) Cheers Antoine -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Holly Bostick schrieb: Alexander Skwar schreef: Dale schrieb: Well, I'm trying to find out where to change it in Mozilla. Change what in Mozilla? There's nothing that you can change. Oh for Pete's sake, Alexander. You can so change stuff in Mozilla-- it's a *software suite*, containing a web browser/irc client, a mail client and a web composition utility. Well, sure you can change stuff in Mozilla. No doubt :) But there's nothing in Mozilla (or any programm) that you can change, so that proper quotation is used. That's just not possible, as it involves selectively deleting unrequired parts and inserting the quote at the right spot. A program just cannot do this. I presume Dale was referring to the Mozilla mail component, Yes, that's what I presume as well. You just read and insert your comments where appropriate and delete what's no longer relevant. Consider a nice walk, a beer, or other relaxing activity. Please. How does that fit to what I wrote? What I wrote is just a short summary about how proper quotation should be done. Is it factual wrong what I wrote? Alexander Skwar -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Alexander Skwar wrote: Yep. That's why bullshit like this shouldn't be done. Quotes should be done in the way I do it. Not because I do it (that's no reason), but because that's the way it's been done for a long time and (more) importantly, because it's been proven to be good. And the proof is documented: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt, section 3.1.1 But since top-posters are too lazy to scroll to the end of a message, or trim the original before replying, I'm guessing they will be too lazy to follow the link and read the RFC. So I'll quote the relevant section here: If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original! In otherwords...don't top post and trim your replies. -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On Sunday 30 October 2005 16:30, Richard Fish wrote: But since top-posters are too lazy to scroll to the end of a message, or trim the original before replying, I'm guessing they will be too lazy to follow the link and read the RFC. So I'll quote the relevant section here: Personally, I prefer to top-post, but refrain in this context out of respect for my fellow admins. However, I don't appreciate being called lazy. If you lok up the word lazy, you will see connotations having to do with preferring to do less work. You admit, then that top posting involves less work? is easier? If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original! and this has what to do with email? I'm sure in the dark ages of the internet when mail was, indeed proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another that was a good point. is it still? I've got an idea, let's use the bandwidth of the list to help one another, not be miss manners. In otherwords...don't top post and trim your replies. -Richard -- John Jolet Your On-Demand IT Department 512-762-0729 www.jolet.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Holly Bostick wrote: Dale schreef: Speaking of settings, mail can be set to be sent as plain text by default in Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail as follows (the settings given are for Thunderbird, but the Mozmail settings are very nearby in terms of finding them, if not exactly the same): To set all outgoing mail to be composed as plain-text: Acount Preferences=Composition and Addressing under the relevant account=uncheck Compose messages using HTML format Right underneath that, there is a checkbox dealing with quoting: If When I respond, quote the original mail in my reply is checked, use the drop-down menu below it to change Start my reply above the quoted text (which is default only because the word above comes alphabetically before the word below, it's not a judgement of preference or usefulness) to either Start my reply below the quoted text, or Select the quoted text (if you want to trim first). Or uncheck the box entirely and quote nothing (though that's not a good idea on this list, really). To set mail to this list only as plain-text, while leaving all others as whatever you want: Preferences (not Account Oppions, regular Preferences)= Composition; under HTML and Send Options; Text Composition behaviour (not exact; I'm translating from Dutch, as that's what my desktop is in, and my Dutch is not perfect, which is why my desktop is in it :-) ), click the Advanced button and go to the Plain Text domains tab. On this tab, click the Add button, then in the field that comes up, enter lists.gentoo.org and hit OK. This marks all mail going to this domain (which covers all our mailing lists) as only being able to receive plain-text mail. So no matter what you compose it in, Mozilla Mail/Thunderbired will convert it to plain text when sending (because you told it that that's the only format the domain will accept , which is kinda true-- most mailing lists will reject HTML mail outright, this one won't, but this ridiculously long argument should be proof enough that the list doesn't like it). You can, of course, add any domains of other mailing lists you might be on as well. Hope this is helpful to at least some of those floundering through this thread; learn to use your programs, people, is all I can say. Holly Well I have to have HTML because I use email for a LOT more than just this list. I can't change the whole world just for one list. Sorry. I do have it set up to send both though so it should be compatable with either. Later Dale I'm awake now, for a bit anyway. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
John Jolet wrote: On Sunday 30 October 2005 16:30, Richard Fish wrote: But since top-posters are too lazy to scroll to the end of a message, or trim the original before replying, I'm guessing they will be too lazy to follow the link and read the RFC. So I'll quote the relevant section here: Personally, I prefer to top-post, but refrain in this context out of respect for my fellow admins. However, I don't appreciate being called lazy. If you lok up the word lazy, you will see connotations having to do with preferring to do less work. You admit, then that top posting involves less work? is easier? For the writer, yes. For the reader, no. In private and business contexts, I have no problem with top-posting, and I do it commonly. In those contexts, it is reasonable to expect that every recepient has followed the conversation, and will not be confused by a top-posted comment. In fact, I find it easier and faster to read top-posted comments in that context, and if you read the RFC section on one-to-one communications, you will see that the rules there are much more relaxed. For a mail list, the context is very different, and top-posting is just not appropriate. Remember that the recepient is not just current subscribers, but also people who will be searching the archives months from now. It is _not_ easier for those recepients to read top-postings. If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original! and this has what to do with email? I'm sure in the dark ages of the internet when mail was, indeed proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another that was a good point. is it still? Yes, that part of the RFC seems a bit obsolete, until you again consider mail archives. Someone searching the archives may not go immediately to the beginning of a thread that they are interested in. This part of the RFC is still relevant for them. I've got an idea, let's use the bandwidth of the list to help one another, not be miss manners. Agreed. This horse is already dead anyway. :-) -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
* On 30.10.2005 Alexander Skwar wrote: Me too. Badly translated joke. It should read: There are 10 kinds of people. Then it is funny Oh, it is funny. The joke you mean is slightly different and has something to do with the binary system ;-) So long, tkr -- Stewie: [bathing in blood] This absolutely delightful, it's like someone stabbed Mr. Bubble signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
On 10/30/05, Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dale schrieb: Me too. Badly translated joke. It should read: There are 10 kinds of people. Then it is funny. It takes a bit of time to get the joke, :) It has nothing to do with binary system. :P -- Joe -- There are 3 kinds of people in the world: Those who can count, and those who can't. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Quoting styles
Qian Qiao wrote: On 10/30/05, Alexander Skwar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dale schrieb: Me too. Badly translated joke. It should read: There are 10 kinds of people. Then it is funny. It takes a bit of time to get the joke, :) It has nothing to do with binary system. :P -- Joe I think he's trying to say computers can't count. I'm not staying awake to figure it out though. Back to bed. Dale
