Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
On Monday 08 May 2006 05:18, JimD wrote: Jerônimo Backes wrote: NO! (expand the fontsize to 100 pt or something to get the meaning) ATI support for linux is the crapiest thing on earth! I guess it is safe to assume you don't like ATI : ) nobody who had to deal with their crappy drivers likes ATI. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Monday 08 May 2006 05:18, JimD wrote: Jerônimo Backes wrote: NO! (expand the fontsize to 100 pt or something to get the meaning) ATI support for linux is the crapiest thing on earth! I guess it is safe to assume you don't like ATI : ) nobody who had to deal with their crappy drivers likes ATI. Man, I wrote this while I was configuring my ATI-drivers for my new Gentoo installation. What a pain in the (_*_)! I lost 3 hours in this thing, and someone asks me if ATI drivers are good! The question by itself is a joke. ___ Yahoo! doce lar. Faça do Yahoo! sua homepage. http://br.yahoo.com/homepageset.html -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
On 5/8/06, Jerônimo Backes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Monday 08 May 2006 05:18, JimD wrote: Jerônimo Backes wrote: NO! (expand the fontsize to 100 pt or something to get the meaning) ATI support for linux is the crapiest thing on earth! I guess it is safe to assume you don't like ATI : ) nobody who had to deal with their crappy drivers likes ATI. Man, I wrote this while I was configuring my ATI-drivers for my new Gentoo installation. What a pain in the (_*_)! I lost 3 hours in this thing, and someone asks me if ATI drivers are good! The question by itself is a joke. Tell me about it, if you have one of their latest cards, OK, they should work, mostly, but expect stuff to crash, their linux drivers are not really something they care about THAT much. Of course, newer cards get better support, but hey, I have one of the IGP 340 on both notebooks, and it JUST SUX, their drivers do not work, they're are simply refered by ATI as not-supported. C'mon, I had an old TNT2 and it worked like a charm using NVidia drivers (it had 32MB of memory, and performed better than my IGP with 64MB and 4 years younger). What can you expect from a vendor that do not support their older hardware and have not all features on the newer? They should work harder. -- Daniel da Veiga Computer Operator - RS - Brazil -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 03:36:18PM +1200, Mark Kirkwood wrote: By way of contrast, I've been running Tyan and Supermicro boards with ATI radeon 9000 and 9200 cards for years without any issues on FreeBSD 4.8, 4.9, 5.3, 5.4 and now 6.0. I just use the supplied drivers that come with Xorg (XFree in the past). I replaced a failed ATI 9700 PRO with a GeForce 6300. ATI _NEVER_ supported that card with a Linux compatible driver. I have an HP ZD8000 with the ATI X300 card in it. You will never believe it, but... ATI _NEVER_ supported that card!!! I look at the list of cards nVidia supports, and make the decision to never again purchase another ATI card (okay, my Tyan K8WE has ATI, and I will used the chip, but it will be a firewall, so who cares?) simply due to their crappy support. No, I don't use 3D - but, if I wanted to/needed to, I feel nVidia at least offers me the chance of having it work. Now, granted, it may not work, but at least I have the chance. Plus nVidia offers native FreeBSD support, which is what my work- station and firewall run. Bruce -- I like bad! Bruce BurdenAustin, TX. - Thuganlitha The Power and the Prophet Robert Don Hughes -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
On 5/7/06, JimD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you tried editing /etc/hibernate/hibernate.conf and make the nvidia driver module unload when you hibernate and reload it when it comes up? Well, I had done this previously without good results. But I just tried it again in response to your question, fully expecting to post back yep, it craps out at But it actually seems to be working now...I've been through a half-dozen suspend-resume cycles without a hiccup. So, thanks for the prompting to try again! :- -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
Richard Fish wrote: Well, I had done this previously without good results. But I just tried it again in response to your question, fully expecting to post back yep, it craps out at But it actually seems to be working now...I've been through a half-dozen suspend-resume cycles without a hiccup. So, thanks for the prompting to try again! :- -Richard Cool beans ; ) My suspend is almost perfect. The only issue I have is that mixer_applet2, the little volume control, crashes when I come back up and I get prompted to restart it. I am not sure if I can kill it before suspend and bring it back up. I would need to start it as the logged in user not as root. Jim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= There's no place like 127.0.0.1 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= JimD Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
Hi, this is with their windows drivers, and their linux drivers are even worse: http://www.3dnature.com/ati.html -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: Hi, this is with their windows drivers, and their linux drivers are even worse: http://www.3dnature.com/ati.html Uuuggh. I thought ATI would have gotten better by now. I guess I can check in on them in another 5 years or so. Jim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= There's no place like 127.0.0.1 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= JimD Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
Are they stable and pretty easy to use/install? Any problems with games? How about commercial OpenGL games ported to Linux like Call of Duty and Doom 3? They are a pain in the ass! Worse than childbirth or a golf ball inside your kidneys. Problems with games? After all that pain, there is no significant problems. But the drivers tend to be slower than on Windows. I am asking because Newegg has some nice deals on ATI X1600 series starting at $99 USD: The cheaper can cost you more that you imagine. Do the proprietary ATI Linux drivers have *all* of the features that the proprietary ATI Windows drivers have? NO! (expand the fontsize to 100 pt or something to get the meaning) ATI support for linux is the crapiest thing on earth! ___ Abra sua conta no Yahoo! Mail: 1GB de espaço, alertas de e-mail no celular e anti-spam realmente eficaz. http://br.info.mail.yahoo.com/ -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
Just in case you still had some lingering possibility of using ATI, I thought I'd respond as well :) Firstly, once you have gone through the pain of getting the ati drivers to work (and sure, some people fluke the right combination first go and wonder what all the fuss is about) - things such as kernel version, X version, ati-driver version, etc. - Any change to any of these components can break it again. On Sun, 2006-05-07 at 18:54 -0400, JimD wrote: Anyway I want to get some feedback on the current ATI driver state. Are they stable No, they are not stable. Again, maybe some people haven't had issues with their systems, but for others (like me) they crash on random things - like sometimes logging out of X. But then, so does the xorg radeon driver... and pretty easy to use/install? yes, gentoo makes it easy :) 1. emerge ati-drivers, 2. edit xorg.conf to use fglrx, 3. restart X. Any problems with games? How about commercial OpenGL games ported to Linux like Call of Duty and Doom 3? Haven't tried those games, but the OpenGL screensavers fly on my machine. I probably will just go with NVidia. NVidia's Linux support has always been rock-solid for me that's a good reason to go with what you know! However, a nice new ATI at those prices is tempting if ATI has gotten their Linux act together. They're trying. If you look at the ATI forums, ATI occasionally puts in their defence, but IMHO it's still too little. For example, the amount of time it takes them to release a driver for a new kernel is just too long. Do the proprietary ATI Linux drivers have *all* of the features that the proprietary ATI Windows drivers have? nope. One thing I like about NVidia's driver is that it is a unified driver model and the drivers are basically feature for feature identical on the different oses. really? Wow, if I didn't have a laptop, I would have bought an NVidia card by now. HTH! -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au When man calls an animal vicious, he usually means that it will attempt to defend itself when he tries to kill it. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
On Sunday 07 May 2006 18:54, JimD wrote: I am looking to get a new video card. I have used an NVidia with Linux for a *long* time now. I can't recall when I last bought an ATI card, at least 6 years or more. Summary: ATI does make good hardware. However, good hardware paired with poor drivers and very poor linux support results in an end result of: poor. Even if you have to spend a little more cash, go with Nvidia. You will know where the extra cash went. Details: I strongly suggest avoiding ATI on Linux. My first card was a Radeon 9000. With ati's drivers, the following things were a daily occurance: Complete system hangs (even sysreq didn't matter at this point), games showing severe tearing artifacts, random X deaths, etc. I got an Nvidia after that to replace it, and I never once had issues like that. Forward to today. I got a new IBM Thinkpad T43. A FANTASTIC laptop, I absolutly LOVE it. It's the best computing purchase I have ever made, hands down. ... And it would be 100% perfect, if not for... you see it coming... They put an ATI X300 in it :( I figured it had been a few years, surely ATI had their junk together. Boy do I regret putting any faith in them. The severe problems I faced, using latest stable kernels, latest xorg 7: 1) Total system hang at EVERY X logout... Not most, but EVERY. We're talking hangs so bad, even sysreq didn't do anything. Now THAT's a hard hang. 2) Total system hang at EVERY resume from suspend to ram. The rest of the system was fine, but the display never comes back up. Without a quick call to sysreq to sync and umount, the system will be completely hung within seconds. I wish I could rip the ATI card out of this otherwise FANTASTIC laptop, and throw in an nvidia... but that can't happen. In closing, ATI's attitude towards supporting linux users is not only poor, but at times outright horrible. Case in point is the fact that within the past few years, in response to various linux users posting their problem son thier forums, ATI said something to the likes of: Supporting the linux operating system is not a priority of ATI, and likely will not be for some years to come. Not an exact quote and I forget where it's at, but it was defiantely official word from ATI. You don't have to be a zealot to come realize that giving a company who clearly does not care about a slice of their customers, blatantly so, is a lost cause. Go Nvidia. You may spend a little more, but that will go into real support, real drivers, and a development team over there that DOES solve problems, and they solve them pretty fast. Thus ends the rant. If you made it this far, welcome to my opinion. -- When you walk across the fields with your mind pure and holy, then from all the stones, and all growing things, and all animals, the sparks of their soul come out and cling to you. And then they are purified, and become a holy fire in you. -- Ancient Hasidic Saying -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
On 5/7/06, fire-eyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wish I could rip the ATI card out of this otherwise FANTASTIC laptop, and throw in an nvidia... but that can't happen. Well, as someone who recently changed from an ATI to an NVidia laptop, my view is that, while things _are_ better on this side of the fence (better performance, Composite support (now even with OpenGL applications!!), and so on), they are still far from perfect where laptops are concerned. NVidia fully supports suspend-to-ramand my laptop will suspend and resume to ram reliably...most of the time. The problem is that not all drivers really work with suspend-to-ram. For example alsa loses the BIOS-set pin configuration, causing the headphone pin to no longer function (sound comes from speakers always). Also I have some instability in timetracking with VMWare virtual machines after resuming. Now none of the above is NVidia's fault, and using suspend-to-disk is the usual way of dealing with these issues, since the BIOS is started and reconfigures everything they way it is supposed to be. NVidia has just started to support suspend-to-disk, but my system will still fail to resume at least 50% of the time. The biggest complaint I have (and that I see frequently on the nvnews forums) with NVidia's drivers is the time between releases. They used to do a release about every two months, but lately that has slid to 4 or even 5 months sometimes!! Which means I will probably have no usable suspend-to-disk until September or October. -Richard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
Jerônimo Backes wrote: NO! (expand the fontsize to 100 pt or something to get the meaning) ATI support for linux is the crapiest thing on earth! I guess it is safe to assume you don't like ATI : ) Jim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= There's no place like 127.0.0.1 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= JimD Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
fire-eyes wrote: I strongly suggest avoiding ATI on Linux. My first card was a Radeon 9000. With ati's drivers, the following things were a daily occurance: Complete system hangs (even sysreq didn't matter at this point), games showing severe tearing artifacts, random X deaths, etc. I got an Nvidia after that to replace it, and I never once had issues like that. By way of contrast, I've been running Tyan and Supermicro boards with ATI radeon 9000 and 9200 cards for years without any issues on FreeBSD 4.8, 4.9, 5.3, 5.4 and now 6.0. I just use the supplied drivers that come with Xorg (XFree in the past). I'm really only using the 2D features of the card I guess, as I don't do games and the most adventurous I get graphics wise is Gimp :-), but nonetheless for me the cards are good, fast and cheap! Cheers Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
Mark Kirkwood wrote: By way of contrast, I've been running Tyan and Supermicro boards with ATI radeon 9000 and 9200 cards for years without any issues on FreeBSD 4.8, 4.9, 5.3, 5.4 and now 6.0. Ooops - meant to write ...on FreeBSD 4.86.0 and *Mandrake Linux before that* (was reading the FreeBSD-stable list and this one, and got my myself confused about which one I was posting to!). Cheers Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI and Linux
Richard Fish wrote: The biggest complaint I have (and that I see frequently on the nvnews forums) with NVidia's drivers is the time between releases. They used to do a release about every two months, but lately that has slid to 4 or even 5 months sometimes!! Which means I will probably have no usable suspend-to-disk until September or October. -Richard Have you tried editing /etc/hibernate/hibernate.conf and make the nvidia driver module unload when you hibernate and reload it when it comes up? Jim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= There's no place like 127.0.0.1 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= JimD Central FL, USA, Earth, Sol -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
