Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 03:40:02PM +0100, Pandu Poluan wrote: On Dec 10, 2011 8:50 PM, LinuxIsOne [1]linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: - 8 snip I have come to conclusion that almost all Linux work almost in the same way since they have the same kernel, however, this is what I think. I don't mean to scare you, but most Linux distros work differently. First, there might be differences in how they install a package. There's RPM, apt, pacman, portage, and others. Second, there are differences in the init system. Gentoo users OpenRC, Ubuntu uses upstart, and others use SysVinit, systemd, and so on. And even you can't guarantee that the kernels are the same. Many distros introduce their own distro-specific patches to the vanilla kernel. With Gentoo, it's even more complicated, as most experienced Gentooroids will configure and compile their own kernels. (The last paragraph, however, is the reason why Gentoo is so secure: attackers can't be sure that the vuln they're targeting is located at the right spot, *if* the vuln exists at all. Throw in hardened patches like GrSecurity, PAX, and SELinux... well, you get the idea.) Probably he doesn't; one has to learn a bit before any of this will make sense to them. Imagine having this converstaion with your great-aunt Agnes... ;) ((No wonder NASDAQ uses Gentoo for its infrastructure)) Indeed. -- ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On 12 December 2011 23:52, Indi thebeelzebubtrig...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 03:40:02PM +0100, Pandu Poluan wrote: On Dec 10, 2011 8:50 PM, LinuxIsOne [1]linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: ((No wonder NASDAQ uses Gentoo for its infrastructure)) Indeed What a bunch of ricers :P
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 01:10:02AM +0100, James Broadhead wrote: On 12 December 2011 23:52, Indi thebeelzebubtrig...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 03:40:02PM +0100, Pandu Poluan wrote: On Dec 10, 2011 8:50 PM, LinuxIsOne [1]linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: ((No wonder NASDAQ uses Gentoo for its infrastructure)) Indeed What a bunch of ricers :P I LOL'd. :) -- caveat utilitor ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Dec 13, 2011 7:09 AM, James Broadhead jamesbroadh...@gmail.com wrote: On 12 December 2011 23:52, Indi thebeelzebubtrig...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 03:40:02PM +0100, Pandu Poluan wrote: On Dec 10, 2011 8:50 PM, LinuxIsOne [1]linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: ((No wonder NASDAQ uses Gentoo for its infrastructure)) Indeed What a bunch of ricers :P I'm sure they are. In the interview [1], Lameter said that quote NASDAQ uses a modified version of the Gentoo Linux distribution. /quote modified version? That practically screams ricers! to me :-D [1] http://m.itworld.com/open-source/193823/how-linux-mastered-wall-street?mm_ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gossamer-threads.com%2Flists%2Fgentoo%2Fuser%2F236472 Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On 08.12.2011 17:11, LinuxIsOne wrote: Ah, thanks for the nice suggestions, I would keep a note of it. I would install in one old machine, You could use virtualbox to create a virtual PC and install Gentoo there. That would eliminate the required space for a second monitor, keyboard and mouse. Virtualbox is mostly self-explaining so that should not be so much of a problem. Greetings Sebastian Beßler signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Frank Steinmetzger war...@gmx.de wrote: I did this in the past. But recently I’m reassessing this, with Ubuntu changing the default look and the way it works with every other release (remember the hassle about window buttons to the left by default?). I can’t really explain -- let alone justify -- to a newbie, who had to adapt from Win to Ubuntu that he has to do so again, whether he wants to or not. Plus it seems to me they are trying to become Apple in the Linux world, with own services (and design). I am totally at a loss with entry-level distros right now. I tried Mint, also the new one with Gnome 3. The praised Mint menu seems overloaded to me (it shows too much at once IMHO). I somehow dislike custom layers over a standard interface, much like, if I bought an HTC Android, I would reflash it without Sense UI, but I’m digressing. OpenSuse seems even more overloaded. Albeit it provides a whole environment, Yast was full of stuff a simple user will never need. It also caused a very long and voluminous installation process. I must add though that I peeked into both Mint and Suse only for a day or so, without ever using it myself, so I don’t know jack about update procedures. A friend of mine wanted Linux, so I installed Debian stable for her with KDE 4.4. It’s not bleeding edge, but it works because it doesn’t change much (hence keeps working) and because she doesn’t do a lot of fancy stuff. (And also because I used Debian testing for a while, so I know a bit about how to do some helpdesking). I have come to conclusion that almost all Linux work almost in the same way since they have the same kernel, however, this is what I think.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Sebastian Beßler sebast...@darkmetatron.de wrote: Virtualbox is mostly self-explaining so that should not be so much of a problem. VB works from within another OS or needs memory of HDD?
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Dec 10, 2011 8:50 PM, LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: - 8 snip I have come to conclusion that almost all Linux work almost in the same way since they have the same kernel, however, this is what I think. I don't mean to scare you, but most Linux distros work differently. First, there might be differences in how they install a package. There's RPM, apt, pacman, portage, and others. Second, there are differences in the init system. Gentoo users OpenRC, Ubuntu uses upstart, and others use SysVinit, systemd, and so on. And even you can't guarantee that the kernels are the same. Many distros introduce their own distro-specific patches to the vanilla kernel. With Gentoo, it's even more complicated, as most experienced Gentooroids will configure and compile their own kernels. (The last paragraph, however, is the reason why Gentoo is so secure: attackers can't be sure that the vuln they're targeting is located at the right spot, *if* the vuln exists at all. Throw in hardened patches like GrSecurity, PAX, and SELinux... well, you get the idea.) ((No wonder NASDAQ uses Gentoo for its infrastructure)) Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: I don't mean to scare you, but most Linux distros work differently. First, there might be differences in how they install a package. There's RPM, apt, pacman, portage, and others. Second, there are differences in the init system. Gentoo users OpenRC, Ubuntu uses upstart, and others use SysVinit, systemd, and so on. init system? I am first time hearing this, may be, I would read it later or sometimes about what is it And even you can't guarantee that the kernels are the same. Many distros introduce their own distro-specific patches to the vanilla kernel. With Gentoo, it's even more complicated, as most experienced Gentooroids will configure and compile their own kernels. (The last paragraph, however, is the reason why Gentoo is so secure: attackers can't be sure that the vuln they're targeting is located at the right spot, *if* the vuln exists at all. Throw in hardened patches like GrSecurity, PAX, and SELinux... well, you get the idea.) Oh I see. Thanks for clarification Pandu. ((No wonder NASDAQ uses Gentoo for its infrastructure)) Great to hear.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 08:46:16 -0500 LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Frank Steinmetzger war...@gmx.de wrote: I did this in the past. But recently I’m reassessing this, with Ubuntu changing the default look and the way it works with every other release (remember the hassle about window buttons to the left by default?). I can’t really explain -- let alone justify -- to a newbie, who had to adapt from Win to Ubuntu that he has to do so again, whether he wants to or not. Plus it seems to me they are trying to become Apple in the Linux world, with own services (and design). I am totally at a loss with entry-level distros right now. I tried Mint, also the new one with Gnome 3. The praised Mint menu seems overloaded to me (it shows too much at once IMHO). I somehow dislike custom layers over a standard interface, much like, if I bought an HTC Android, I would reflash it without Sense UI, but I’m digressing. OpenSuse seems even more overloaded. Albeit it provides a whole environment, Yast was full of stuff a simple user will never need. It also caused a very long and voluminous installation process. I must add though that I peeked into both Mint and Suse only for a day or so, without ever using it myself, so I don’t know jack about update procedures. A friend of mine wanted Linux, so I installed Debian stable for her with KDE 4.4. It’s not bleeding edge, but it works because it doesn’t change much (hence keeps working) and because she doesn’t do a lot of fancy stuff. (And also because I used Debian testing for a while, so I know a bit about how to do some helpdesking). I have come to conclusion that almost all Linux work almost in the same way since they have the same kernel, however, this is what I think. Not quite. A very small selection of all possible Unixes work the same. Ubuntu and Debian are quite similar as they have common roots. RedHat works rather like an old Fedora (and to some degree that's almost exactly what it is). Gentoo looks and feels like whatever you decide to make it to be (because it is so highly configurable and adaptable) The fact is that the kernel make very little difference to how the overall system works. YOU do not interact with the kernel, YOU interact with a collection of programs called userland, and these things can all be very different. For example, I'm looking at three computers right now that all run Linux, and they are all very very different: - this laptop, which is set up as a traditional Unix with X, - my phone running Android - my wireless router/modem which runs busybox Be careful of making rash conclusions about Linux. A Linux system is not like anything particularly, it is whatever the person who built it decided it should be. What you will find is that desktop Linuxes share many common elements. This is not surprising - all versions of Windows share many common elements too. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 08:47:47 -0500 LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 8:31 AM, Sebastian Beßler sebast...@darkmetatron.de wrote: Virtualbox is mostly self-explaining so that should not be so much of a problem. VB works from within another OS or needs memory of HDD? VirtualBox is a program that runs on a working system with a functioning OS. Like all programs it needs resources like memory and hard disk space. Unlike most programs it usually uses a LOT of memory and hard disk space to be useful. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: A very small selection of all possible Unixes work the same. Ubuntu and Debian are quite similar as they have common roots. RedHat works rather like an old Fedora (and to some degree that's almost exactly what it is). Gentoo looks and feels like whatever you decide to make it to be (because it is so highly configurable and adaptable) The fact is that the kernel make very little difference to how the overall system works. YOU do not interact with the kernel, YOU interact with a collection of programs called userland, and these things can all be very different. For example, I'm looking at three computers right now that all run Linux, and they are all very very different: - this laptop, which is set up as a traditional Unix with X, - my phone running Android - my wireless router/modem which runs busybox Be careful of making rash conclusions about Linux. A Linux system is not like anything particularly, it is whatever the person who built it decided it should be. What you will find is that desktop Linuxes share many common elements. This is not surprising - all versions of Windows share many common elements too. Thanks for this explanation. I earlier (before this post) used to think that it is the kernel which is a deciding factor..., but yes it is correct to say NO for this. Linux is really highly configurable at least for this reason is a better choice and especially Gentoo - which could be made to work like anything we wish (as you say) --- really great to know. ON one of the machine and in the time to come, I wold first read how to install Gentoo and then would definitely (100%) try to install Gentooo at least a successful installation would make me know many things as far as Gentoo is considered.. Eventually I would come to these great mailing lists for the help, but since I am in another job, so it would take much time, but I would try Thanks.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: VirtualBox is a program that runs on a working system with a functioning OS. Like all programs it needs resources like memory and hard disk space. Unlike most programs it usually uses a LOT of memory and hard disk space to be useful. Oh I see. I see VB in Ubuntu...(how to) since right now I have Ubuntu.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
Wait a minute, an actual doctor installed and maintain Gentoo boxes?
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 01:02:14AM -0200, Claudio Roberto França Pereira wrote: Wait a minute, an actual doctor installed and maintain Gentoo boxes? ?? -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services. A hammer is a wonderful tool, but it is plain unsuitable for cleaning windows. (SelfHTML forum) pgpFBwYCUkesc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
By Lorenzo Badieri: [...] My high school was centered around humanities/classical studies: ancient greek, latin, philosophy; after high school, I managed to get into MED SCHOOL. So, no computer science/informatics at all. However, I was really curios about computers, and I messed up my family's desktop pc a couple of times :) [...]
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On 8 December 2011 06:57, LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:20 AM, Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: I tried Ubuntu, hated this *so* much. I'm sure all the respondents were just trying to be helpful, but they made Ubuntu look like the distro of idiots. How do you say like this? Can you give me an example please? The next time you have a problem with anything related to linux, follow a link to an Ubuntu user forum. Unfortunately, the quality of advice on them tends to be pretty low. :-(
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 5:58 AM, James Broadhead jamesbroadh...@gmail.com wrote: The next time you have a problem with anything related to linux, follow a link to an Ubuntu user forum. Unfortunately, the quality of advice on them tends to be pretty low. :-( Really?
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, 8 Dec 2011 08:55:48 -0500 LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 5:58 AM, James Broadhead jamesbroadh...@gmail.com wrote: The next time you have a problem with anything related to linux, follow a link to an Ubuntu user forum. Unfortunately, the quality of advice on them tends to be pretty low. :-( Really? Don't take our word for it, go look for yourself. I could give you examples of how that forum works, I could give you links that show what we are saying, but NOTHING can prepare you for what you really find on the Ubuntu user forums. Like I said, just go there and have a look for yourself. -- Alan McKinnnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Don't take our word for it, go look for yourself. I could give you examples of how that forum works, I could give you links that show what we are saying, but NOTHING can prepare you for what you really find on the Ubuntu user forums. Okay but at least Ubuntu is good for new users and Windows convert and for those doesn't it give a learning curve in Linux?
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On 8 December 2011 15:10, LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Don't take our word for it, go look for yourself. I could give you examples of how that forum works, I could give you links that show what we are saying, but NOTHING can prepare you for what you really find on the Ubuntu user forums. Okay but at least Ubuntu is good for new users and Windows convert and for those doesn't it give a learning curve in Linux? That's debatable; it generally means that the amount of time that passes before they realise that Linux is not Windows is increased. It definitely gets them booted into a desktop environment quicker, but it doesn't really save on the learning curve - something will go awry sooner or later, and the fact that they've had the command-line hidden from them until that first fateful trip to the forums won't feel like such a benefit then.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:18 AM, James Broadhead jamesbroadh...@gmail.com wrote: That's debatable; it generally means that the amount of time that passes before they realise that Linux is not Windows is increased. It definitely gets them booted into a desktop environment quicker, but it doesn't really save on the learning curve - something will go awry sooner or later, and the fact that they've had the command-line hidden from them until that first fateful trip to the forums won't feel like such a benefit then. Ok, I agree with you but I have just installed since I had to Linux experience but everything is working like a charm. I don't know if any problem would come.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:35 AM, LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: That's debatable; it generally means that the amount of time that passes before they realise that Linux is not Windows is increased. It definitely gets them booted into a desktop environment quicker, but it doesn't really save on the learning curve - something will go awry sooner or later, and the fact that they've had the command-line hidden from them until that first fateful trip to the forums won't feel like such a benefit then. Ok, I agree with you but I have just installed since I had to Linux experience but everything is working like a charm. I don't know if any problem would come. I mean i have no Linux experience and everything is working like a charm in Ubuntu and yes you are correct to say that command line is hidden which is the real gem in linux. I agree with you in this regard. But I guess (not sure) if Ubuntu would give me the Linux learning environment?
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:18 AM, James Broadhead jamesbroadh...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 December 2011 15:10, LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Don't take our word for it, go look for yourself. I could give you examples of how that forum works, I could give you links that show what we are saying, but NOTHING can prepare you for what you really find on the Ubuntu user forums. Okay but at least Ubuntu is good for new users and Windows convert and for those doesn't it give a learning curve in Linux? That's debatable; it generally means that the amount of time that passes before they realise that Linux is not Windows is increased. It definitely gets them booted into a desktop environment quicker, but it doesn't really save on the learning curve - something will go awry sooner or later, and the fact that they've had the command-line hidden from them until that first fateful trip to the forums won't feel like such a benefit then. I got started with Linux via Red Hat 5.2. (Pre-Fedora, pre-RHEL days). I used it for only a few days before switching to Debian. If I hadn't seen Red Hat's relatively automagic setup of X, and the availability of all the tools to do things I wanted using a GUI interface, I probably would have hopped back to Windows 95. As it was, seeing that GUI and knowing that a familiar interface was what left me willing to deal with the couple weeks it took me to learn how to set up XFree86 3.3.6 on Debian.[1] Fortunately, just about every Linux distro, including Gentoo, has much better resource for getting a GUI up and running, so a modern newbie experience shouldn't be nearly so taxing on initial patience. Sure, being able to learn a system inside and out is a good thing, but you need to get past that initial hurdle before you're ready to tackle it, and Ubuntu handles that initial hurdle quite well. Give a user six months to a year, and they'll grow tired of Ubuntu constantly breaking their customizations, and they'll probably switch to Debian or Linux Mint. I've watched that leap several times now. A few of them eventually leave Debian or Mint for Gentoo. Some land on Fedora or OpenSuSE, but they're usually heavily working with RHEL or CentOS in other contexts. [1] Luckily, I wasn't even an adolescent yet; I don't think I'd have had the time or patience for that as an adult. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:36 AM, LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:35 AM, LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: That's debatable; it generally means that the amount of time that passes before they realise that Linux is not Windows is increased. It definitely gets them booted into a desktop environment quicker, but it doesn't really save on the learning curve - something will go awry sooner or later, and the fact that they've had the command-line hidden from them until that first fateful trip to the forums won't feel like such a benefit then. Ok, I agree with you but I have just installed since I had to Linux experience but everything is working like a charm. I don't know if any problem would come. I mean i have no Linux experience and everything is working like a charm in Ubuntu and yes you are correct to say that command line is hidden which is the real gem in linux. I agree with you in this regard. But I guess (not sure) if Ubuntu would give me the Linux learning environment? As long as we're talking about *you*, and not about someone you're setting things up for, here's what I'd suggest: 1) Keep your existing Ubuntu setup operational, at least for a while. Gentoo isn't something you should dive into unless you have a fallback, at least until you learn enough to be able to fix the things you'll encounter. 2) Set up Gentoo as a second machine; it really is a great way to learn how a lot of the moving parts in Linux work. Once you've got Gentoo doing everything you want it to do, and you've burned yourself a couple times, you'll be in a good position to make a decision for yourself. I've actually bounced back and forth between Ubuntu and Gentoo twice in the last three or four years, but I think I'm finally ready to go steady with Gentoo. :) Ubuntu is great for it just works. Ubuntu isn't so great for it just keeps working. Neither is Gentoo, for that matter, but, at least with Gentoo, you'll know how to fix it. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: As long as we're talking about *you*, and not about someone you're setting things up for, here's what I'd suggest: 1) Keep your existing Ubuntu setup operational, at least for a while. Gentoo isn't something you should dive into unless you have a fallback, at least until you learn enough to be able to fix the things you'll encounter. 2) Set up Gentoo as a second machine; it really is a great way to learn how a lot of the moving parts in Linux work. Once you've got Gentoo doing everything you want it to do, and you've burned yourself a couple times, you'll be in a good position to make a decision for yourself. I've actually bounced back and forth between Ubuntu and Gentoo twice in the last three or four years, but I think I'm finally ready to go steady with Gentoo. :) Ubuntu is great for it just works. Ubuntu isn't so great for it just keeps working. Neither is Gentoo, for that matter, but, at least with Gentoo, you'll know how to fix it. Ah, thanks for the nice suggestions, I would keep a note of it. I would install in one old machine, I mean I would try to install Gentoo after going through the docs..(of course, required in Gentoo). But one more request can you also suggest about openSUSE? Is openSUSE lies in the middle between Ubuntu and Gentoo?
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
2011/12/8 LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: Don't take our word for it, go look for yourself. I could give you examples of how that forum works, I could give you links that show what we are saying, but NOTHING can prepare you for what you really find on the Ubuntu user forums. Okay but at least Ubuntu is good for new users and Windows convert and for those doesn't it give a learning curve in Linux? Well, maybe my experience will be useful to you. Ubuntu was my introduction to linux. First, I'll start by saying that before linux I didn't know absolutely nothing about computers and the like. I had my first desktop pc at home (windows xp) when I was 15 or 16 years old. Before that, only my father owned a pc, for his work, and I was not allowed to use it. My high school was centered around humanities/classical studies: ancient greek, latin, philosophy; after high school, I managed to get into med school. So, no computer science/informatics at all. However, I was really curios about computers, and I messed up my family's desktop pc a couple of times :) At 19, I was given a laptop, only for me (windows vista, if I remember correctly). I decided to install linux on it, and I chose Ubuntu because it was the distro of wich I heard about the most. After some months, I decided to move away from ubuntu because I felt it was too limited - I wanted to learn. In the following two years I tried other distros, but at last I felt that only two were apt to me: Gentoo and Arch Linux. Of these two, I tend to prefer Gentoo. What's the point in this story: I started as a computer illiterate. I think that, had I chosen Gentoo (or Arch, or Slackware) as my first distro, probably I would have given up with linux. I could never get started so abruptly with the terminal, CLI etc. I needed a gradual introduction, to get familiar with filesystems, directory hierarchy, basilar command line usage etc. Ubuntu, at the time, provided this. Just remember that *probably* you won't learn much by using Ubuntu. If you want to learn, when you're ready, you will have to move on. You learn more after an attempt to install Gentoo than in one year of plain Ubuntu usage :) At least, that is my real life experience and my opinion. I'm just one user; on this ML there are really knowledgeable users, so you should listen to them[1]. [1] BTW, I just want to say that I really love this ML. Thanks guys. Hope this helps, Lorenzo -- Nothing is interesting if you're not interested.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Lorenzo Bandieri lorenzo.bandi...@gmail.com wrote: Well, maybe my experience will be useful to you. Ubuntu was my introduction to linux. First, I'll start by saying that before linux I didn't know absolutely nothing about computers and the like. I had my first desktop pc at home (windows xp) when I was 15 or 16 years old. Before that, only my father owned a pc, for his work, and I was not allowed to use it. My high school was centered around humanities/classical studies: ancient greek, latin, philosophy; after high school, I managed to get into med school. So, no computer science/informatics at all. However, I was really curios about computers, and I messed up my family's desktop pc a couple of times :) At 19, I was given a laptop, only for me (windows vista, if I remember correctly). I decided to install linux on it, and I chose Ubuntu because it was the distro of wich I heard about the most. After some months, I decided to move away from ubuntu because I felt it was too limited - I wanted to learn. In the following two years I tried other distros, but at last I felt that only two were apt to me: Gentoo and Arch Linux. Of these two, I tend to prefer Gentoo. That's really nice to know. What's the point in this story: I started as a computer illiterate. I think that, had I chosen Gentoo (or Arch, or Slackware) as my first distro, probably I would have given up with linux. I could never get started so abruptly with the terminal, CLI etc. I needed a gradual introduction, to get familiar with filesystems, directory hierarchy, basilar command line usage etc. Ubuntu, at the time, provided this. Just remember that *probably* you won't learn much by using Ubuntu. If you want to learn, when you're ready, you will have to move on. You learn more after an attempt to install Gentoo than in one year of plain Ubuntu usage :) At least, that is my real life experience and my opinion. I'm just one user; on this ML there are really knowledgeable users, so you should listen to them[1]. [1] BTW, I just want to say that I really love this ML. Thanks guys. Yeahs thanks and your story really gives nice things to remember. I would definitely try now Gentoo and since it is an advanced version of Linux usage, so people here are, of course, having more knowledge and more mature, including you. When you say 'You learn more after an attempt to install Gentoo than in one year of plain Ubuntu usage :)', this line is really good to know. If this is true, I guess after some initial learning I would step towards Gentoo, I bet. But since Gentoo was not in top 5 at distrowatch.org so that also (earlier) made me thought that Ubuntu or openSUSE are more matured Linux distributions but I forgot that the rating I saw was of popularity and not of more advanced or the one giving more learning curvature. Thanks.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thursday 08 Dec 2011 16:11:56 LinuxIsOne wrote: On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: As long as we're talking about *you*, and not about someone you're setting things up for, here's what I'd suggest: 1) Keep your existing Ubuntu setup operational, at least for a while. Gentoo isn't something you should dive into unless you have a fallback, at least until you learn enough to be able to fix the things you'll encounter. 2) Set up Gentoo as a second machine; it really is a great way to learn how a lot of the moving parts in Linux work. Once you've got Gentoo doing everything you want it to do, and you've burned yourself a couple times, you'll be in a good position to make a decision for yourself. I've actually bounced back and forth between Ubuntu and Gentoo twice in the last three or four years, but I think I'm finally ready to go steady with Gentoo. :) Ubuntu is great for it just works. Ubuntu isn't so great for it just keeps working. Neither is Gentoo, for that matter, but, at least with Gentoo, you'll know how to fix it. Ah, thanks for the nice suggestions, I would keep a note of it. I would install in one old machine, I mean I would try to install Gentoo after going through the docs..(of course, required in Gentoo). But one more request can you also suggest about openSUSE? Is openSUSE lies in the middle between Ubuntu and Gentoo? OpenSUSE is not that different from Ubuntu, but is a long way from Gentoo. There is no way to meaningfully compare *Ubuntu and OpenSUSE, because it depends what suits your taste and preferences. You can install both, run them for a few weeks and see which you feel more comfortable with. Last time I installed OpenSUSE (some years ago) I had to reinstall it when time came to upgrade to the latest version. With Ubuntu the upgrade path was pretty seamless. The Ubuntu devs had it all scripted out via the update manager. So, Ubuntu is I think easier to look after and keep upgrading than OpenSUSE was back then. Not sure how things have evolved since then in the OpenSUSE world. CentOS was no better than OpenSUSE in this regard. So, for a newcomer to Linux I would recommend *Ubuntu. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 08:09:34PM +, Mick wrote: Ubuntu is great for it just works. Ubuntu isn't so great for it just keeps working. Neither is Gentoo, for that matter, but, at least with Gentoo, you'll know how to fix it. Ah, thanks for the nice suggestions, I would keep a note of it. I would install in one old machine, I mean I would try to install Gentoo after going through the docs..(of course, required in Gentoo). But one more request can you also suggest about openSUSE? Is openSUSE lies in the middle between Ubuntu and Gentoo? OpenSUSE is not that different from Ubuntu, but is a long way from Gentoo. There is no way to meaningfully compare *Ubuntu and OpenSUSE, because it depends what suits your taste and preferences. You can install both, run them for a few weeks and see which you feel more comfortable with. Last time I installed OpenSUSE (some years ago) I had to reinstall it when time came to upgrade to the latest version. With Ubuntu the upgrade path was pretty seamless. The Ubuntu devs had it all scripted out via the update manager. So, Ubuntu is I think easier to look after and keep upgrading than OpenSUSE was back then. Not sure how things have evolved since then in the OpenSUSE world. CentOS was no better than OpenSUSE in this regard. So, for a newcomer to Linux I would recommend *Ubuntu. I did this in the past. But recently I’m reassessing this, with Ubuntu changing the default look and the way it works with every other release (remember the hassle about window buttons to the left by default?). I can’t really explain -- let alone justify -- to a newbie, who had to adapt from Win to Ubuntu that he has to do so again, whether he wants to or not. Plus it seems to me they are trying to become Apple in the Linux world, with own services (and design). I am totally at a loss with entry-level distros right now. I tried Mint, also the new one with Gnome 3. The praised Mint menu seems overloaded to me (it shows too much at once IMHO). I somehow dislike custom layers over a standard interface, much like, if I bought an HTC Android, I would reflash it without Sense UI, but I’m digressing. OpenSuse seems even more overloaded. Albeit it provides a whole environment, Yast was full of stuff a simple user will never need. It also caused a very long and voluminous installation process. I must add though that I peeked into both Mint and Suse only for a day or so, without ever using it myself, so I don’t know jack about update procedures. A friend of mine wanted Linux, so I installed Debian stable for her with KDE 4.4. It’s not bleeding edge, but it works because it doesn’t change much (hence keeps working) and because she doesn’t do a lot of fancy stuff. (And also because I used Debian testing for a while, so I know a bit about how to do some helpdesking). -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services. Everything is poisonous -- it just comes down to the dosage. pgpxGzE4PrJFs.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On 6 December 2011, at 23:25, Grant Edwards wrote: ... The Ubuntu documentation seems to be mainly user-forum threads full of wrong answers posted by people who didn't understand the question. I tried Ubuntu, hated this *so* much. I'm sure all the respondents were just trying to be helpful, but they made Ubuntu look like the distro of idiots. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 5:20 AM, Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: I tried Ubuntu, hated this *so* much. I'm sure all the respondents were just trying to be helpful, but they made Ubuntu look like the distro of idiots. How do you say like this? Can you give me an example please?
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On 2 December 2011, at 17:48, LinuxIsOne wrote: ... Why I asked to just know if Gentoo is better or openSUSE is better for a novice who want to learn Linux, just coming directly from Windows...that's why...However, I have liked the Ubuntu (since it is easy and nice) but don't know about all Linux in generalis Gentoo is also using the same Linux which Ubuntu is using? IMO you need to try it for yourself. If you have an old PC or a spare hard-drive then it doesn't cost you anything to install a distro and try it for a few days. IMO the most important thing about a distro is not it's technical pros and cons, but simply how it suits you - how you get along with it. Having said that, you mention Ubuntu in your comment above. If you haven't used Ubuntu yet, then I suggest it for a few months first. If you have, can you tell us why you're thinking of changing? Stroller.
Re: Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
Why I asked to just know if Gentoo is better or openSUSE is better for a novice who want to learn Linux, just coming directly from Windows...that's why...However, I have liked the Ubuntu (since it is easy and nice) but don't know about all Linux in generalis Gentoo is also using the same Linux which Ubuntu is using? since you don't even know what linux is - go opensuse. It is much, much easier to install and setup. Gentoo is only for you if you like tuning, configuring and if you want the system be as close as your personal ideal as possible. Which means: reading and learning a lot making a lot of mistakes redoing be prepared to pull out shell based text tools and fix the mess you created, Go opensuse. it is much more usable for a novice. And to answer your question: no, gentoo is not using the same linux as ubuntu nor does opensuse. All distributions use some linux version and add their own patches. With the exception of gentoo where you can easily use a completely unpatched linux kernel. -- #163933
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
Hi! I use gentoo on my desktop (P4, 2 Gb RAM) and openSuSe on laptop (Lenovo x200s). They both work perfectly well, especially when you precisely know what you are expecting from OS )) Regarding your questions: About DE: I've tried to use Enlightenment with SuSe, and worked very well (only little changes with networking). Applications: I have texlive, pdftk, sipp and ns-2 working perfectly on both systems. General applications like LibreOffice, Gimp, browser works fine too. The only thin is really annoying in openSuSe is /usr/lib/tracker-* which loads CPU by 90% while searching for media files, etc.. I recommend to disable it - I haven't found anything useful by using this application. Hope this helps you. P.S. Sorry it there were some mistakes - English isn't my native language. On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:41 PM, LinuxIsOne linuxis...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Does one have the experience for the following: gentoo vs openSUSE for ease of use, better navigation, applications working perfectly without any crash(es), better up gradations, smooth working, etc..etc... Best Regards. -- С уважением, Черноиванов Андрей
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
2011/12/2 Andrew Tchernoivanov: Hi! Hello. I use gentoo on my desktop (P4, 2 Gb RAM) and openSuSe on laptop (Lenovo x200s). They both work perfectly well, especially when you precisely know what you are expecting from OS )) Regarding your questions: Ok well. About DE: I've tried to use Enlightenment with SuSe, and worked very well (only little changes with networking). Applications: I have texlive, pdftk, sipp and ns-2 working perfectly on both systems. General applications like LibreOffice, Gimp, browser works fine too. The only thin is really annoying in openSuSe is /usr/lib/tracker-* which loads CPU by 90% while searching for media files, etc.. I recommend to disable it - I haven't found anything useful by using this application. Okay. Hope this helps you. Yeah. P.S. Sorry it there were some mistakes - English isn't my native language. Not a problem, that is also not a native language for me! Why I asked to just know if Gentoo is better or openSUSE is better for a novice who want to learn Linux, just coming directly from Windows...that's why...However, I have liked the Ubuntu (since it is easy and nice) but don't know about all Linux in generalis Gentoo is also using the same Linux which Ubuntu is using? Cheers.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Friday 02 Dec 2011 14:41:29 LinuxIsOne wrote: Hello, Does one have the experience for the following: gentoo vs openSUSE for ease of use, better navigation, applications working perfectly without any crash(es), better up gradations, smooth working, etc..etc... Best Regards. If you want *exactly* what OpenSUSE have included in their distro then OpenSUSE is for you. Some applications and the whole system will run slower than Gentoo. Invariably some applications could experience crashes and what not - any distro would from time to time have such problems and may not be distro specific anyway, but application specific. If you want to include additional applications or versions of applications that OpenSUSE repos do not cater for, then you may run into dependency hell. At best, some apps will just not install or work as intended. At worst you could break the underlying distro if you try hard enough and have to reinstall. With Gentoo you have higher flexibility on what you install and portage is definitely thousands times better than YaST, in terms of configurabilty. You will still get the odd application that is buggy, but as a rule your system will run lighter and faster because each binary is compiled from source with the CFALGS and USE flags that you have specified for your system. On the other hand it will take some time and effort to keep your Gentoo up to date. Another difference between OpenSUSE and Gentoo is that you will not need to reinstall Gentoo to get the latest desktop, or init system or what-ever system wide upgrade is next. With OpenSUSE upgrades imply a reinstallation (unless YaST got cleverer since the last time I used it). Invariably you will also never need to reinstall Gentoo to fix any breakages - most problems you may come across you will learn how to recover from with clever use of portage. In conclusion: If you prefer quick installation and easy/quick updates, but with limited choice on what gets installed and how it is configured, and the OpenSUSE suite of packages will meet your application needs comprehensively, then OpenSUSE is a well polished distro that will fit the bill. If you value higher performance and a much higher degree of configurability, then Gentoo will be your choice; but that comes at the expense of a protracted installation process (especially if you have not done this before) and some admin time on a regular basis to keep your system and applications up to date. With Gentoo you will be *forced* to learn a lot to install your system and keep it running. With OpenSUSE the learning curve will likely be considerably flatter. It would be advisable to try them both out in LiveCDs (or even install them in VMs) to see which you feel more comfortable working with. For a Gentoo based LiveCD you could try Sabayon: http://www.sabayon.org/ and this may also be used for a quick (binary) installation of a Gentoo-like system. HTH. -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
LinuxIsOne wrote: Why I asked to just know if Gentoo is better or openSUSE is better for a novice who want to learn Linux, just coming directly from Windows...that's why...However, I have liked the Ubuntu (since it is easy and nice) but don't know about all Linux in generalis Gentoo is also using the same Linux which Ubuntu is using? Cheers. Better depends on what you expect. If you want to learn about Linux, Gentoo will teach you a lot. Heck, you will learn a lot by the time you get it installed and get to your first boot prompt. I get the impression that you don't realize how in depth Gentoo is. Gentoo can be installed by a Linux newcomer but it will not be a walk in the park. I used Mandrake for 6 months or so and it took me about 3 tries to get to a point where Gentoo would boot up. It took a while more to get everything working still. I had to redo my kernel several times. The point I am making is, it is not how different Gentoo is from other distros, it's whether it is something you need and want to put the time in to learn. Gentoo doesn't have a GUI installer and you do have to compile everything you install. I recently installed Kubuntu for my Brother. It is a walk in the park compared to installing Gentoo. Did I learn anything about Linux, not hardly. I don't think Kubuntu is made to teach a lot about Linux. It's just made to install easily and quickly without much fuss. I do hope you will try Gentoo tho. It is sort of addicting at times. lol Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Dec 3, 2011 3:06 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: LinuxIsOne wrote: Why I asked to just know if Gentoo is better or openSUSE is better for a novice who want to learn Linux, just coming directly from Windows...that's why...However, I have liked the Ubuntu (since it is easy and nice) but don't know about all Linux in generalis Gentoo is also using the same Linux which Ubuntu is using? Cheers. Better depends on what you expect. If you want to learn about Linux, Gentoo will teach you a lot. Heck, you will learn a lot by the time you get it installed and get to your first boot prompt. I get the impression that you don't realize how in depth Gentoo is. Gentoo can be installed by a Linux newcomer but it will not be a walk in the park. I used Mandrake for 6 months or so and it took me about 3 tries to get to a point where Gentoo would boot up. It took a while more to get everything working still. I had to redo my kernel several times. The point I am making is, it is not how different Gentoo is from other distros, it's whether it is something you need and want to put the time in to learn. Gentoo doesn't have a GUI installer and you do have to compile everything you install. I recently installed Kubuntu for my Brother. It is a walk in the park compared to installing Gentoo. Did I learn anything about Linux, not hardly. I don't think Kubuntu is made to teach a lot about Linux. It's just made to install easily and quickly without much fuss. I do hope you will try Gentoo tho. It is sort of addicting at times. lol Indeed! Especially control freaks like me :-) But seriously, I personally found Gentoo to be the most logical Linux distro. Yes, the initial barrier (installation) is daunting, so to speak, but after doing it successfully, one can immediately intuit what's going on. Installing and configuring other packages becomes piece of cake. The logical way of Gentoo even extends to its packages. For instance, packages that are meant to be run as services/daemons will *certainly* have a pair of files in conf.d and init.d. Customizable environs are in env.d and profile.d. And so on. I've used Linux exclusively as servers, and I have dabbled with Red Hat, CentOS, Ubuntu, Debian, and Arch, but Gentoo wins hands down for its logicality. Not to mention that I can customize my servers exactly to my specifications, instead of having to put up with cruft that the distro maintainer feel as a must have. Case in point : how many distros allow you to choose which cron daemon you want to use? Another plus point is the almost complete devel tools provided out of the box: the gcc suite. Now if I happen across an open source project that hasn't made it yet to the portage tree, I can just download and compile it myself. Related to that, is the great job Portage did regarding dependency hell. Since I am no longer hostage to the whims of the distro maintainer re: versions of libraries installed, if a program needs a library that's newer than the current 'stable' version, I can just keyword the needed version and compile away. Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Sat, Dec 03, 2011 at 07:53:58AM +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: On Dec 3, 2011 3:06 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: LinuxIsOne wrote: Why I asked to just know if Gentoo is better or openSUSE is better for a novice who want to learn Linux, just coming directly from Windows...that's why...However, I have liked the Ubuntu (since it is easy and nice) but don't know about all Linux in generalis Gentoo is also using the same Linux which Ubuntu is using? Cheers. A small off-topic hint, Pandu: your mailer is breaking the quoting, because it only sets a quote marker to the first line of a paragraph, omitting the following lines (See my quote of your message above). Can you please look into your settings to correct it? Thanks. -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services. Experience -- specialist term for tried mistakes of older employees. pgp0yJoajaPPK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: Another plus point is the almost complete devel tools provided out of the box: the gcc suite. Now if I happen across an open source project that hasn't made it yet to the portage tree, I can just download and compile it myself. This. Very much this. My dive into Gentoo came as I was fed up with Debian and Ubuntu having buggy and/or outdated versions of multimedia encoding packages while trying to configure a box specced for live transcoding of h.264 to something my PS3 would like. -- :wq
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Dec 3, 2011 8:25 AM, Frank Steinmetzger war...@gmx.de wrote: On Sat, Dec 03, 2011 at 07:53:58AM +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: On Dec 3, 2011 3:06 AM, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: LinuxIsOne wrote: Why I asked to just know if Gentoo is better or openSUSE is better for a novice who want to learn Linux, just coming directly from Windows...that's why...However, I have liked the Ubuntu (since it is easy and nice) but don't know about all Linux in generalis Gentoo is also using the same Linux which Ubuntu is using? Cheers. A small off-topic hint, Pandu: your mailer is breaking the quoting, because it only sets a quote marker to the first line of a paragraph, omitting the following lines (See my quote of your message above). Can you please look into your settings to correct it? Thanks. *sighs* Blame it on Google... I'm typing on Android's Gmail client. Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Dec 3, 2011 9:14 AM, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: Another plus point is the almost complete devel tools provided out of the box: the gcc suite. Now if I happen across an open source project that hasn't made it yet to the portage tree, I can just download and compile it myself. This. Very much this. My dive into Gentoo came as I was fed up with Debian and Ubuntu having buggy and/or outdated versions of multimedia encoding packages while trying to configure a box specced for live transcoding of h.264 to something my PS3 would like. Ha, same with me :-) But in my case, it's esoteric stuffs like: latest iptables, xtables-addons (and its ipset modules), fetchmail, postgreSQL, ... and an initramfs-less system :-) Rgds,
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
Pandu Poluan wrote: Indeed! Especially control freaks like me :-) But seriously, I personally found Gentoo to be the most logical Linux distro. Yes, the initial barrier (installation) is daunting, so to speak, but after doing it successfully, one can immediately intuit what's going on. Installing and configuring other packages becomes piece of cake. The logical way of Gentoo even extends to its packages. For instance, packages that are meant to be run as services/daemons will *certainly* have a pair of files in conf.d and init.d. Customizable environs are in env.d and profile.d. And so on. I've used Linux exclusively as servers, and I have dabbled with Red Hat, CentOS, Ubuntu, Debian, and Arch, but Gentoo wins hands down for its logicality. Not to mention that I can customize my servers exactly to my specifications, instead of having to put up with cruft that the distro maintainer feel as a must have. Case in point : how many distros allow you to choose which cron daemon you want to use? Another plus point is the almost complete devel tools provided out of the box: the gcc suite. Now if I happen across an open source project that hasn't made it yet to the portage tree, I can just download and compile it myself. Related to that, is the great job Portage did regarding dependency hell. Since I am no longer hostage to the whims of the distro maintainer re: versions of libraries installed, if a program needs a library that's newer than the current 'stable' version, I can just keyword the needed version and compile away. Rgds, This is true but the OP may not really need this type of control. Most people, newcomers especially, just want something that is easy and sort of learn a bit and see if Linux is for them. Some people just aren't wanting to be geeky at all. They want a OS that will take care of everything for them. In that case, Gentoo is not going to be worth the effort. Me, I have a Desktop with no real special needs. I just wanted to be able to learn about Linux, not have some bunch of junk that I never ever intend to use installed and be able to update without standing on my head with my small toe up one nostril trying to jump hoops. Mandrake had a horrible update process and I got tired of it quick. If you could insert CD, install and not need to update anything, then you were good to go. If you install and then need to update something, ps. Flip upside down and assume the position. Gentoo does have a lot of good points, especially for me. It is just not going to be easy and hand holding at first for a newcomer. The OP will learn a lot and as I pointed out, it can be addicting. Just turn off the quiet output setting and see what Linux is really all about. ;-) Dale :-) :-) -- I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
Re: [gentoo-user] can one tell me: gentoo vs opensuse
On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 09:09:38PM -0500, Michael Mol wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: Another plus point is the almost complete devel tools provided out of the box: the gcc suite. Now if I happen across an open source project that hasn't made it yet to the portage tree, I can just download and compile it myself. This. Very much this. My dive into Gentoo came as I was fed up with Debian and Ubuntu having buggy and/or outdated versions of multimedia encoding packages while trying to configure a box specced for live transcoding of h.264 to something my PS3 would like. Though Gentoo was my first distro to begin with, the devel stuff in Debian/Ubuntu is also a big nuisance for me, because you have to “spam” the equivalent of your world file with numerous dev packages or libs if you want to install some application from source (like I once tried with Amarok in Debian Squeeze). On the other hand one could of course argue that Gentoo is wasting a lot of space because it is always installing all dev files, like /usr/include, /lib/**/*.a and stuff. But that’s something else. :) -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' I forbid any use of my email addresses with Facebook services. Bosses are like timpani: the more hollow they are, the louder they sound. pgpT818AjtESZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
