Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Jerry Feldman]

It is more the case where Microsoft was able to use some of their clout. 
Developers will upgrade on a single target because of competition, but have 
no real incentive to port to a secondary target.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>   Win95 did a much poorer job of running Win16 applications than OS/2 did.  
> Not that Win95 did any better running Win32 applications.  Microsoft just
> told developers that Win16 was the problem.  So developers promptly ran out
> and bought all the new Win95 development tools.  Which, of course, do a poor
> job of supporting older environments, forcing users to upgrade to Win95.
-- 
--
Gerald Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Boston Computer Solutions and Consulting
ICQ#156300 PGP Key ID:C5061EA9
PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9


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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Bruce Dawson]

That would be a good hack! And I'd like to encourage someone to do it.
But I feel its necessary to point out that most companies who use IMAP
do so to avoid all the network traffic that dragging down each message
to process it would entail. That's why POP is still around.

Just my $0.02 worth - don't let this discourage anyone!

On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 14:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 2:18pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > ... now I'm fetchmailing and procmailing my work e-mail as well.
> 
>   H... something just occurred to me.  ("I've got an idea, a'forming in
> my brain")
> 
>   It would be really nice if one could "apply" a set of procmail recipes to
> an IMAP mail store.  That is, rather than having the MDA process each
> message as it comes in, have a program that, given an IMAP mail server,
> reads each message in the inbox, runs it through a procmail recipe file, and
> stores the result relative to the IMAP server.  Sure, it would not be as
> efficient as doing it server-side, but for cases like this, where procmail
> couldn't run on the server even if the admins let you, it could be handy.
> 
>   Anyone know of anything like this?
> 
> -- 
> Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
> | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
> | organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |
> 
> 
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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Bruce Dawson]

I actually looked into doing that - I think it was way back in '95 - or
maybe it was '96 - I can't remember anymore, brain cramps.

At any rate, there are a lot of Imap attributes that don't map well into
a filesystem. And I remember thinking: If it can't be done right - then
don't do it. Of course, I won't become rich like Bill Gates with that
attitude. ;-)

--Bruce 

On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 18:28, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>...
>   I've said this before: The Right Thing here would be to do this as a
> filesystem driver.  Said filesystem driver would read an IMAP server, and
> present it to the client as a system of MH-style directories and files.  
> This would allow you to use any current and/or future MH tools on an IMAP
> server.
> 
>   Implementation is left as an exercise for the reader.  ;-)




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QuickTime (was: What do people use...)

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 6:02pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I do occasionally use the Quicktime plugin from the CrossOver Plugins pkg,
> but I just heard that Xine will be supporting this in an up coming release

  I am told that QuickTime itself is actually reasonable open and
well-documented, but that many of the CODECs used are not.  I know that I
have been able to view certain QuickTime movies using "xanim" under Linux
without problems.  The problem (or so the story goes) is that the preferred
CODEC for QuickTime these days is only available from a company called
Sorensen, and Apple's licensing deal with them prevents Sorensen from
licensing it to anyone else.

  As far as Xine goes, they have created a decoder for one version of the
Sorensen CODEC.  However, the decoder does not work with the "current"
version used by many websites.  So, you can view the Star Wars Episode I
trailer, but not the Episode II trailer.

  Or so I am told.  A lot of this information is based on Slashdot postings,
which are only slightly more reliable than a random-number generator.  :-)

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |



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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Tom Buskey]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>
>In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:34:46 EDT
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>
>>> Given my druthers, I'd rather run my own server, but Paul's particular
>>> situation left him few options.
>>
>>  Paul likes exmh, and MH clients and IMAP do not mix, so he would have
>>little use for such a tool, I am sure.  His post was just a catalyst for my
>>idea.
>
>Yeah, but you know, I'd really like to be able to use (ex)mh as an 
>interface to an IMAP server.  I really like the granular control I 
>have over my e-mail with both raw mh commands and exmh as a GUI.  I 
>would *really* like to be able to re-engineer it to interface with an 
>IMAP server and still manipulate my e-mail the same way, but have the 
>mail stored on some external-to-my-laptop system.  That would be way 
>cool!

There's always NFS and X ;-)

I run fetchmail -> procmail on my firewall (my personal server only!) and NFS
mount the mail directory from my laptop.  Of course, then there are issues
outside the firewall.  I can SSH into my firewall & run exmh on the firewall
if I have X on my remote system.  Works if your firewall is always on & you
have enough bandwidth (cable modem, 802.11b internally).

Of course, I'd like to have IMAP access to my MH folders too.  If
wishes were fishes  I probably wouldn't like the restrictions.


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 6:02pm, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> In this case, that's part of the problem. But, what incentive was there for 
> Win16 developers to go to Win32.

  Win95 did a much poorer job of running Win16 applications than OS/2 did.  
Not that Win95 did any better running Win32 applications.  Microsoft just
told developers that Win16 was the problem.  So developers promptly ran out
and bought all the new Win95 development tools.  Which, of course, do a poor
job of supporting older environments, forcing users to upgrade to Win95.

  Repeat for Win98.

  Repeat for Win2000.

  Repeat for WinXP.

> Certainly Win16 apps lack certain features in OS/2 ...

  Actually, OS/2's Win16 subsystem was amazing complete and stable.  True, a
Win16 application did not make use of everything OS/2 could do, but it ran
very well.

> For OS/2, I think that the benefits of OS/2 did not provide an incentive
> for people to start buying OS/2 on their desktops.

  I tried to imply that OS/2 failed for more than one reason.  IBM's poor
marketing, and their bizarre business relationship with Microsoft, also
contributed.  As did the lack of development tools.  As did Microsoft's
well-documented anti-competitive practices regarding OEMs.  Talk about your
loosing battles.

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |



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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[pll]

In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:19:29 EDT
"Derek D. Martin" said:

>> > Given my druthers, I'd rather run my own server, but Paul's particular
>> > situation left him few options.
>> 
>>   Paul likes exmh, and MH clients and IMAP do not mix
>
>This isn't exactly true; Paul is just stubborn.

Hey, wait! I resemble that remark! ;)

>It is true that exmh can't access IMAP folders directly.
>The solution to this problem is use fetchmail to retrieve the IMAP messages,
>and use exmh to read them locally.

Which is exactly what I'm doing now.

>You can either leave the messages on the server, or provide
>your own back-up mechanism.

Not following this line of thought.  If I leave the messages on the 
server and use fetchmail to access them, I then must constantly 
download all the messages I've already read but left on the server.

And what do you mean by "back-up mechanism"?

>Or, you can just use Mutt. :) 
>[Mutt supports mbox, mmdf, maildir, mh... etc. as well as IMAP and POP3.]

Mutt has minimal support for mh folders.  Yes, it can read them, but 
it doesn't update your scan cache or your unseen cache, which means 
that if you jump back and forth between different interfaces to you 
mailbox, like mutt and exmh, your view of things under each interface 
will be quite different.

>> so he would have little use for such a tool, I am sure.
>
>This part, OTOH, is quite true.  If you were to use the above
>technique, clearly you'd just filter locally with procmail.

Which is exactly what I do.

Maybe you're referring to the way I worked at MCL when I insisted on 
running exmh *on* the mail server.  The reason for this had nothing 
to do with exmh or IMAP.  On the contrary, it had everything to do 
with procmail.  In an ideal situation (which I found myself in at MCL 
and don't at my current site of employment) I want to do several 
things with my e-mail:

- use vacation as an auto-responder
- filter several hundred e-mails per day as they come in
- access 1 view of my e-mail from multiple locations
- high availability for where I read my e-mail from

While at MCL I accessed my e-mail on a daily basis from my house as 
well as while at work.  If I were to have used fetchmail from my 
desktop system to suck my e-mail down to it, I had no HA capability,
not in the sense of a clustered environment, but at least on UPS and 
regularly backed up.  I could not guarantee with any amount of 
certainty that my system would be up over a weekend much less a week 
while on vacation.  That means that:

- I was no longer filtering my e-mail real-time
- I couldn't read my e-mail with a single, consistent view
- I couldn't have vacation auto-respond to incoming e-mail

Since exmh doesn't have direct IMAP support, it made more sense to 
run the client on the mail server.  Additionally, I don't like mutt.
I have years of customizations invested in exmh, why should I spend 
an inordinate amount of time re-learning a tool which IMO falls short 
of the capabilities I have with exmh?

But you're right, I am stubborn :)

-- 

Seeya,
Paul

It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
   but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.

 If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!



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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[pll]

In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:24:37 EDT
"Derek D. Martin" said:

>Yes, it's called telnet...  =8^)

Sorry that's been deprecated.  The new tool is called ssh ;^P
-- 

Seeya,
Paul

It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
   but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.

 If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!



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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[pll]

In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:37:44 EDT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

>> This isn't exactly true; Paul is just stubborn. It is true that exmh can't
>> access IMAP folders directly.  The solution to this problem is use
>> fetchmail to retrieve the IMAP messages, and use exmh to read them
>> locally.
>
>  Which completely defeats the point of IMAP.  I really wouldn't call that
>using MH and IMAP together.

I agree.  I'm not using MH and IMAP together, I'm using fetchmail to 
access an IMAP server to suck all my e-mail down to my laptop and 
store it locally in MH folders which are then directly accessed by 
the exmh GUI using MH commands :)
-- 

Seeya,
Paul

It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
   but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.

 If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!



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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Tom Rauschenbach]

On Monday 24 June 2002 h:37, Rich C wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Greater NH Linux Users' Group" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:01 PM
> Subject: Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?
>
> >   American culture says that amassing money and power are good, so it
>
> must
>
> > be, right?
>
> Hmmm
>
> "...life, liberty, and the pursuit of hapiness"
>
> I don't see "Power" or "Money" in there at all.
>

I don't see "American culture" in there either.



> Rich Cloutier
> President, C*O
> SYSTEM SUPPORT SERVICES
> www.sysupport.com
>
>
>
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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 5:36pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Yeah, but you know, I'd really like to be able to use (ex)mh as an 
> interface to an IMAP server.

  I've said this before: The Right Thing here would be to do this as a
filesystem driver.  Said filesystem driver would read an IMAP server, and
present it to the client as a system of MH-style directories and files.  
This would allow you to use any current and/or future MH tools on an IMAP
server.

  Implementation is left as an exercise for the reader.  ;-)

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 5:40pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Doesn't IMAP have commands to only grab headers and to re-file a msg?

  Yes.

> Of course, I do wierd things like actually filter and sort based on body
> content as well, which would then require tranferring the msg from the
> server to the client for processing, then sending it back to the server
> for filing.

  No, you would only need to transfer it to the client.  Once the client
made the decision, it could simply move the message using IMAP commands.

> Since exmh doesn't have direct IMAP support, it made more sense to run the
> client on the mail server.

  I might argue it makes more sense to fix the mail client.  ;-)

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: Argh! Mailman, please!

[Jerry Feldman]

While Mark has been very good at keeping the list clean, I don't think that 
mailman is in the cards at the moment as the list is hosted at zk3.dec.com 
(eg. HP).  I know there are many other lists hosted at the same site. 

On 24 Jun 2002 at 11:47, Paul Iadonisi wrote:

>   Can we *please* switch to mailman for the list someday?  It seems
> every time I post to this list, I'm bombarded with bounces.  Mailman
> handles bounces quite well.  (Not to start a flamewar, or anything ;-)

--
Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Associate Director
Boston Linux and Unix user group
http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9
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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly:
> >This isn't exactly true; Paul is just stubborn.
> 
> Hey, wait! I resemble that remark! ;)

:)

> >You can either leave the messages on the server, or provide
> >your own back-up mechanism.
> 
> Not following this line of thought.  If I leave the messages on the 
> server and use fetchmail to access them, I then must constantly 
> download all the messages I've already read but left on the server.

Actually fetchmail, by default, only downloads unread messages.  You
can also tell it to delete read messages off the server.  See the
fetchmail manpage...

> And what do you mean by "back-up mechanism"?

=8^)

The comment about mutt was largely tongue-in-cheek, as I'm sure you
realize... as for your anality^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hlevel of caution at MCL, I
have no comment... 

- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9F5jFdjdlQoHP510RAi3PAJ0al9CVjhbJOSrW/PMGL2098tNHZACgic1Z
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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Jerry Feldman]

In this case, that's part of the problem. But, what incentive was there for 
Win16 developers to go to Win32. Certainly Win16 apps lack certain features 
in OS/2 as well as Win32 (95 and NT). 

For OS/2, I think that the benefits of OS/2 did not provide an incentive 
for people to start buying OS/2 on their desktops. 

On 24 Jun 2002 at 17:21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   Right.  One of the causes of the failure of OS/2 is widely considered to
> be the fact that it ran Win16 programs so well, it gave vendors no incentive
> to port their applications to the native OS/2 API.

--
Jerry Feldman
Enterprise Systems Group
Hewlett-Packard Company
200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1
Marlboro, Ma. 01752
508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[pll]

In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 17:04:16 EDT
"Jerry Feldman" said:

>Products like these provide people with access to products that are 
>otherwise not available (a good thing). 
>BUT!
>For those of us who know about FX32,  they also do not provide any 
>incentive for the software vendor to port to native Linux. That's pretty 
>much the reason why Corel, for instance, no longer provides a native 
>WordPerfect build. 

Well, I don't see anything that currently exists, nor will ever exist 
which could be argued to be an "incentive" for MS to port their apps 
to Linux.

Btw, FWIW, the only thing I used CrossOver Office for was their 
Outlook client to access the Exchange server.  For all Office docs I 
use either Open Office, Gnumeric, or Abiword.

I do occasionally use the Quicktime plugin from the CrossOver Plugins 
pkg, but I just heard that Xine will be supporting this in an up
coming release :)
-- 

Seeya,
Paul

It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
   but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.

 If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!



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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[pll]

In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:07:27 EDT
Rich Payne said:

>On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, mike ledoux wrote:
>
>That's one way, however you'd be transfering the message to the client, 
>figuring out where to put it and then sending it back again. What's would 
>be even better would be just to move the message on the imap server. Yes 
>you'd still have to pull the message down, but you wouldn't need to send 
>it back again. So instead of giving putmail the entire message, just give 
>it the message's unique message ID on the IMAP server and the destination 
>folder.
>
>You would also need to be careful about maintaining message flags (unread 
>etc).

Doesn't IMAP have commands to only grab headers and to re-file a msg?
If so, this shouldn't be all that difficult to implement with 
procmail, since *most* filtering of e-mail is done on the headers.

Of course, I do wierd things like actually filter and sort based on 
body content as well, which would then require tranferring the msg 
from the server to the client for processing, then sending it back to 
the server for filing.  A lot of overhead, but if IMAP has a properly 
designed interface, it should be doable. 
-- 

Seeya,
Paul

It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
   but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.

 If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!



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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[pll]

In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:34:46 EDT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

>> Given my druthers, I'd rather run my own server, but Paul's particular
>> situation left him few options.
>
>  Paul likes exmh, and MH clients and IMAP do not mix, so he would have
>little use for such a tool, I am sure.  His post was just a catalyst for my
>idea.

Yeah, but you know, I'd really like to be able to use (ex)mh as an 
interface to an IMAP server.  I really like the granular control I 
have over my e-mail with both raw mh commands and exmh as a GUI.  I 
would *really* like to be able to re-engineer it to interface with an 
IMAP server and still manipulate my e-mail the same way, but have the 
mail stored on some external-to-my-laptop system.  That would be way 
cool!

>> No, but I got my procmail -> Maildir format -> Courier IMAP setup
>> running...I plan on posting a writeup soon.
>
>  Cool!  I'm sure Paul has already scheduling you for a meeting
>presentation.  ;-)

Ayup, you got it.  However, I know Kevin pretty well, and understand 
the amount of "stuff" on his "todo" list.  That presentation is 
scheduled for the 24 October 2007 meeting ;)
-- 

Seeya,
Paul

It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
   but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.

 If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!



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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 5:04pm, Jerry Feldman wrote:
> Products like these provide people with access to products that are 
> otherwise not available (a good thing). 
> BUT!
> For those of us who know about FX32,  they also do not provide any 
> incentive for the software vendor to port to native Linux. That's pretty 
> much the reason why Corel, for instance, no longer provides a native 
> WordPerfect build. 

  Right.  One of the causes of the failure of OS/2 is widely considered to
be the fact that it ran Win16 programs so well, it gave vendors no incentive
to port their applications to the native OS/2 API.

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Jerry Feldman]

Products like these provide people with access to products that are 
otherwise not available (a good thing). 
BUT!
For those of us who know about FX32,  they also do not provide any 
incentive for the software vendor to port to native Linux. That's pretty 
much the reason why Corel, for instance, no longer provides a native 
WordPerfect build. 


On 24 Jun 2002 at 14:22, Paul Iadonisi wrote:
>   Agreed.  I like the fact that products such as VMware, Win4Lin,
> Crossover Office, etc. exist for the simple fact that it does provide a
> 'bridge,' so to speak that gives some people the possibility of using
> Linux when they have one (or maybe two or three) application that they
> are required to use that only runs on M$ OSes.

--
Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Associate Director
Boston Linux and Unix user group
http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9
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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Jerry Feldman]

I don't know how we got onto this. Back in my PDP11 Unix days, we had 
poorly written code that assumed that ints were 16 bit. I've even seen 
compilers (on the Atari 68000 systems) where shorts were defined as 8 bit. 

The C standards define things by value, which translate to bits.
In C (and C++):
short <= int <= long.
A short must be at least 16 bits, and an int must be as least as bit as a 
short and may be as large as a long. 
There is no maximum size for a long. 

Additionally, the C and C++ languages allow the assignment of pointers to 
integral types and vice-versa. It allso allows for pointer arithmetic. 

On most 64 bit processors, there is an LP64 standard:
Long = 64 bit, Pointers = 64 bit, ints remain at 32 bit. 

If, in the 32 bit world you assign pointers to longs and vice-versa, your 
code will be reasonably portable. (assuming you use unsigned so there is no 
sign extension issues).

On a 32 and 64 bit system:
int *foo;

foo++;
is equivalent to adding 4 to the pointer foo.

long *foo;
foo++;
in 32 bits is adding 4 to foo, and on 64 bits, add 8 to foo because a long 
is 8 bytes. 

Casing can also have some interesting problems:
Assume that malloc(3) is NOT prototyped:

char *foo;
foo = malloc(size);

On a 32 bit system, this will work even is malloc is not prototyped. On a 
64 bit system it will fail because the compiler will generate an int as the 
return value for malloc(3) and any other non-declared or prototyped 
function. 
On 24 Jun 2002 at 13:49, Bayard Coolidge USG wrote:
> Since then, and more recently with Linux, I've tried to champion the
> concept/mindset that not everything is i386 (or IA32), that there are
> other architectures that it's been/being ported to, and some of them
> are 32 bit and some are 64 bit (and, admittedly, there is more than
> one 64 bit architecture to which it's been ported that is still
> shipping).

--
Jerry Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Associate Director
Boston Linux and Unix user group
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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 4:19pm, Derek D. Martin wrote:
>>   Basically, imagine a person who:
>> 
>>   - Wants or has to keep his mail on an IMAP mail server
>>   - Cannot run procmail on the server
>>   - Wants the filtering capabilities of procmail
> 
> Isn't this what Netscape and Outbreak do when you enable filters?

  MS Outlook does not support filtering IMAP mail at all.  As far as
Netscape goes, I believe you are correct, but I am sure it is not as
powerful as procmail is.  :)

>>   Paul likes exmh, and MH clients and IMAP do not mix
> 
> This isn't exactly true; Paul is just stubborn. It is true that exmh can't
> access IMAP folders directly.  The solution to this problem is use
> fetchmail to retrieve the IMAP messages, and use exmh to read them
> locally.

  Which completely defeats the point of IMAP.  I really wouldn't call that
using MH and IMAP together.

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly:
>   This raises a more general question: Does anyone here know of an IMAP
> client tool(set) that can be driven from a command line or a shell script?  
> The more I think about it, the more I think such a thing would be useful.

Yes, it's called telnet...  =8^)

- -- 
Derek Martin   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -
I prefer mail encrypted with PGP/GPG!
GnuPG Key ID: 0x81CFE75D
Retrieve my public key at http://pgp.mit.edu
Learn more about it at http://www.gnupg.org
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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Rich Payne]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 4:07pm, Rich Payne wrote:
> > That's one way, however you'd be transfering the message to  the client, 
> > figuring out where to put it and then sending it back again. What's would 
> > be even better would be just to move the message on the imap server. Yes 
> > you'd still have to pull the message down, but you wouldn't need to send 
> > it back again.
> 
>   Oh, that's a good point.  I hadn't thought of that.

Of course you could also avoid pulling the attachment down this way as 
well!
 
>   This raises a more general question: Does anyone here know of an IMAP
> client tool(set) that can be driven from a command line or a shell script?  
> The more I think about it, the more I think such a thing would be useful.

Don't know that one...I was thinking in terms of PHP w/imap support 
(www.php.net/imap). This was the way I'd imagined adding filter support to 
my own mail client (Teak - teak.sf.net), but that's a few months away at 
the least.

--rdp

-- 
Rich Payne
http://talisman.mv.com


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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[John Abreau]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>   This raises a more general question: Does anyone here know of an IMAP
> client tool(set) that can be driven from a command line or a shell script?  
> The more I think about it, the more I think such a thing would be useful.

Long ago, in my college days, I remember an assignment where we took
"c-client", the IMAP libraries from Pine, and wrote our own basic
email clients. It should be feasible to use c-client as the basis for
writing a "putmail" tool like you described.


-- 
John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix 
ICQ 28611923 / AIM abreauj / JABBER [EMAIL PROTECTED] / YAHOO abreauj
Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9
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"An idealist is just a farsighted pragmatist."  -Anon





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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Derek D. Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At some point hitherto, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hath spake thusly:
> On 24 Jun 2002, at 3:19pm, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
> > Could you provide clarification as to where you are proposing to store
> > this?  On the IMAP server itself?
> 
>   I am envisioning a procmail work-a-like program that runs on an IMAP
> client machine, but accesses and stores mail on an IMAP server.
> 
>   Basically, imagine a person who:
> 
>   - Wants or has to keep his mail on an IMAP mail server
>   - Cannot run procmail on the server
>   - Wants the filtering capabilities of procmail

Isn't this what Netscape and Outbreak do when you enable filters?  I
really don't know as I've never even conceived of using the feature,
but from other's descriptions that's what I thought they did.

> > Given my druthers, I'd rather run my own server, but Paul's particular
> > situation left him few options.
> 
>   Paul likes exmh, and MH clients and IMAP do not mix

This isn't exactly true; Paul is just stubborn. It is true that exmh
can't access IMAP folders directly.  The solution to this problem is
use fetchmail to retrieve the IMAP messages, and use exmh to read them
locally.  You can either leave the messages on the server, or provide
your own back-up mechanism.  Or, you can just use Mutt. :)  [Mutt
supports mbox, mmdf, maildir, mh... etc. as well as IMAP and POP3.]

> so he would have little use for such a tool, I am sure.

This part, OTOH, is quite true.  If you were to use the above
technique, clearly you'd just filter locally with procmail.


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Trolling for business...

[Brian Chabot]

(I'm back after a DNS snafu)

Well, here's my dilemma:

Neither my business (Datasquire.net) nor my employer is currently making
enough money to really turn a profit.  Both companies cater to the Linux
crowd by preference, so I was wonderring if anyone here might know of
good places to advertize.

I've already listed in the Linux Consultants HOWTO and Yahoo.

At this point, I'm sitting at my office tearing my hair out by the roots
because I am forced into doing cold calls.  I'm a sysadmin, not a sales
grunt.  After the first 30 calls I realized how far out of my skillset
this is for me.  I'm going to go crazy if I don't get out of sales and
I'm not going to get out of sales till we have a few more clients.

Anyone have any ideas?  Anyone want one or more linux admins either as
contractors or direct hire?  I love my company, but if the work is
elsewhere

Help.

Brian

---
|  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Spam me and DIE!   |
| http://www.datasquire.net   |
| Co-Founder & Co-Owner of|
|  Data Squire Internet Services  |
---


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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 4:07pm, Rich Payne wrote:
> That's one way, however you'd be transfering the message to  the client, 
> figuring out where to put it and then sending it back again. What's would 
> be even better would be just to move the message on the imap server. Yes 
> you'd still have to pull the message down, but you wouldn't need to send 
> it back again.

  Oh, that's a good point.  I hadn't thought of that.

  This raises a more general question: Does anyone here know of an IMAP
client tool(set) that can be driven from a command line or a shell script?  
The more I think about it, the more I think such a thing would be useful.

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Rich Payne]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, mike ledoux wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2002 at 03:34:46PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > On 24 Jun 2002, at 3:19pm, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
> > > Could you provide clarification as to where you are proposing to store
> > > this?  On the IMAP server itself?
> > 
> >   I am envisioning a procmail work-a-like program that runs on an IMAP
> > client machine, but accesses and stores mail on an IMAP server.
> 
> What I'm seeing is something a little different:
> 
> fetchmail -> procmail -> putmail
> 
> where 'putmail' is a program that takes a mail message on STDIN and puts
> it in the specified folder on the IMAP server. 

That's one way, however you'd be transfering the message to the client, 
figuring out where to put it and then sending it back again. What's would 
be even better would be just to move the message on the imap server. Yes 
you'd still have to pull the message down, but you wouldn't need to send 
it back again. So instead of giving putmail the entire message, just give 
it the message's unique message ID on the IMAP server and the destination 
folder.

You would also need to be careful about maintaining message flags (unread 
etc).

--rdp


-- 
Rich Payne
http://talisman.mv.com


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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Kevin D. Clark]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>   Cool!  I'm sure Paul has already scheduling you for a meeting
> presentation.  ;-)

I wouldn't dream of subjecting a captive audience to something so
boring.  (-:

--kevin
-- 
Kevin D. Clark (cetaceannetworks.com!kclark)  |   Will hack Perl for
Cetacean Networks, Inc.   |  fine food, good beer,
Portsmouth, N.H. (USA)|   or fun.
alumni.unh.edu!kdc (PGP Key Available)|


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Paul Iadonisi]

On Mon, 2002-06-24 at 14:09, Matthew J. Brodeur wrote:

[snip]

>I might also argue that running something in Windows emulation is never 
> the "proper" way to deal with it.  I guess it is often a necessary evil.

  Agreed.  I like the fact that products such as VMware, Win4Lin,
Crossover Office, etc. exist for the simple fact that it does provide a
'bridge,' so to speak that gives some people the possibility of using
Linux when they have one (or maybe two or three) application that they
are required to use that only runs on M$ OSes.
  For me personally, it's not an option.  With OpenOffice and, if
needed, Ximain Connector for Exchange, there's no excuse for insisting
on the use of Windows on a Unix/Linux System Administrator's desktop.

-- 
-Paul Iadonisi
 Senior System Administrator
 Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist
 Ever see a penguin fly?  --  Try Linux.
 GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets



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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[bscott]

On 24 Jun 2002, at 3:19pm, Kevin D. Clark wrote:
> Could you provide clarification as to where you are proposing to store
> this?  On the IMAP server itself?

  I am envisioning a procmail work-a-like program that runs on an IMAP
client machine, but accesses and stores mail on an IMAP server.

  Basically, imagine a person who:

  - Wants or has to keep his mail on an IMAP mail server
  - Cannot run procmail on the server
  - Wants the filtering capabilities of procmail

  One of the ideas behind IMAP is to separate mail storage from the mail
client.  This fits in that puzzle somewhere.

> But it could also involve a  that filed your mail for you (from
> the client) but kept the mail on the server side.

  Bingo.

> Given my druthers, I'd rather run my own server, but Paul's particular
> situation left him few options.

  Paul likes exmh, and MH clients and IMAP do not mix, so he would have
little use for such a tool, I am sure.  His post was just a catalyst for my
idea.

> No, but I got my procmail -> Maildir format -> Courier IMAP setup
> running...I plan on posting a writeup soon.

  Cool!  I'm sure Paul has already scheduling you for a meeting
presentation.  ;-)

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Kevin D. Clark]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>   It would be really nice if one could "apply" a set of procmail recipes to
> an IMAP mail store.  That is, rather than having the MDA process each
> message as it comes in, have a program that, given an IMAP mail server,
> reads each message in the inbox, runs it through a procmail recipe file, and
> stores the result relative to the IMAP server.  

Could you provide clarification as to where you are proposing to store
this?  On the IMAP server itself?

> Sure, it would not be as
> efficient as doing it server-side

This sound similar to sieve.

But it could also involve a  that filed your mail for you (from
the client) but kept the mail on the server side.  In a pinch, I could
do this with duct tape, chicken-wire, and Perl, but this isn't a
turnkey solution... (-:

Given my druthers, I'd rather run my own server, but Paul's particular
situation left him few options.

> but for cases like this, where procmail
> couldn't run on the server even if the admins let you, it could be handy.
>
>   Anyone know of anything like this?

No, but I got my procmail -> Maildir format -> Courier IMAP setup
running...I plan on posting a writeup soon.  (-:

--kevin
-- 
Kevin D. Clark (CetaceanNetworks.com!kclark)  |
Cetacean Networks, Inc.   |   Give me a decent UNIX
Portsmouth, N.H. (USA)|  and I can move the world
alumni.unh.edu!kdc (PGP Key Available)|


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Rich C]

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "GNHLUG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?


>
> In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:37:42 -
> "Rich C" said:
>
> >>   American culture says that amassing money and power are good, so
it
> >>   must be, right?
> >>
> >
> >Hmmm
> >
> >"...life, liberty, and the pursuit of hapiness"
> >
> >I don't see "Power" or "Money" in there at all.
>
> He said American *culture*.  There is no mention of the Declaration
> of Independence, the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights in his
statement.
> He merely said that "American culture" recognizes that money and
> power are good.  Which is quite accurate.
>

True, but the second part of his statement, "...so it must be, right?"
alludes to the previous poster's statement about "a God-given right."
Well since we don't REALLY know what rights "God" gave us in the first
place, we must defer to the principles of foundation of our government,
which make no mention of money or power. Nor do the ten commandments or
any other religious tenet include those as basic human "rights" as far
as I know.

Rich Cloutier
President, C*O
SYSTEM SUPPORT SERVICES
www.sysupport.com





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Linux Hardware Companies

[Kenneth E. Lussier]

Hi All,

I used to purchase most of my servers from Penguin Computing. However,
about 6 or 7 months ago, there were reports of Penguin having trouble
financially, and internal problems with upper management. Since then, I
have been buying servers from a large corporate entity whom shall remain
nameless. However, Penguins prices are still about $1000 below said
corporate entity, and they seem to still exist. Does anyone know how
they are doing, or know of any other Linux-friendly companies that are
stable and less expensive than the Big Two (HP and IBM)? It would also
be nice if they did dual Athlon servers.

TIA,
Kenny   
-- 

"Tact is just *not* saying true stuff" -- Cordelia Chase

Kenneth E. Lussier
Sr. Systems Administrator
Zuken, USA
PGP KeyID CB254DD0 
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCB254DD0



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Re: procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[Michael O'Donnell]

> It would be really nice if one could "apply" a set of procmail
> recipes to an IMAP mail store.  That is, rather than having the
> MDA process each message as it comes in, have a program that,
> given an IMAP mail server, reads each message in the inbox, runs
> it through a procmail recipe file, and stores the result relative
> to the IMAP server.  Sure, it would not be as efficient as doing
> it server-side, but for cases like this, where procmail couldn't
> run on the server even if the admins let you, it could be handy.
>
> Anyone know of anything like this?


OK - we have the business plan.  Now all we need are some
investors and some employees.  IPO in, what, 12 months?


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procmail and IMAP (was: What do people use ...)

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 2:18pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ... now I'm fetchmailing and procmailing my work e-mail as well.

  H... something just occurred to me.  ("I've got an idea, a'forming in
my brain")

  It would be really nice if one could "apply" a set of procmail recipes to
an IMAP mail store.  That is, rather than having the MDA process each
message as it comes in, have a program that, given an IMAP mail server,
reads each message in the inbox, runs it through a procmail recipe file, and
stores the result relative to the IMAP server.  Sure, it would not be as
efficient as doing it server-side, but for cases like this, where procmail
couldn't run on the server even if the admins let you, it could be handy.

  Anyone know of anything like this?

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[pll]

In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:09:12 EDT
"Matthew J. Brodeur" said:

>   I'll have to take your word on that.  As I said at the last meeting, 
>the demo/nagware version killed my system.  Well, maybe not killed, more 
>like knocked into a coma.  It required finding the power switch in any 
>case.  I don't consider it a sign of intelligent marketing when the actual 
>product works, but the demo is hazardous.

I've been using both Crossover Plugin and Crossover Office for over 2 
months now, and never had that experience.  Overall it's been quite a 
postive experience (well, considering how positive an experience one 
can actually have in a Microsoft environment ;)

>I might also argue that running something in Windows emulation is never 
>the "proper" way to deal with it.  I guess it is often a necessary evil.

Yes, you might argue that, and I might even agree with you should you 
ever decide to :)

That said, I convinced IS to turn the Exchange server's 
IMAP server on, so now I'm fetchmailing and procmailing my work e-mail
as well. (Actually, I now even have SpamAssasin tagging my corp. spam :)
-- 

Seeya,
Paul

It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
   but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.

 If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!



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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 2:09pm, Matthew J. Brodeur wrote:
> It required finding the power switch in any case.

  Sounds just like Windows to me.  ;-)

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Matthew J. Brodeur]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> The CodeWeavers Crossover Plugin package will allow you to properly 
> deal with both Windows Media Player and Quicktime content under Linux.
> It is not open source/free by any definition, and it costs $30 or so, 
> but it works quite well.

   I'll have to take your word on that.  As I said at the last meeting, 
the demo/nagware version killed my system.  Well, maybe not killed, more 
like knocked into a coma.  It required finding the power switch in any 
case.  I don't consider it a sign of intelligent marketing when the actual 
product works, but the demo is hazardous.
   I might also argue that running something in Windows emulation is never 
the "proper" way to deal with it.  I guess it is often a necessary evil.


- -- 
 -Matt

Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by moving from where you
left them to where you can't find them.
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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Bayard Coolidge USG]

>>>  Assuming you run i386 Linux.  I suspect Bayard, for example,
>>> would disagree with you.  :-)

Well, I'm not a surly curmudgeon, even though I'm retiring Friday,
but the fact is that I've long been an advocate of "general-think" -
10 years ago (literally - all during 1992), I was involved in the
roll-out of the Alpha architecture. The primary audience for Alpha
was originally VMS (because they needed/wanted to scale onto much
"bigger" hardware), but once the decision was taken to port DEC OSF/1
to Alpha, and we worked out a deal with Microsoft to port Windows NT
to Alpha, it became an interesting task to get people to stop saying
"VMS" when they meant "the operating system", and to realize that
some OS' did things slightly differently from others in some respects,
but in others, there were aspects of the Alpha program that were
operating system-independent.

Since then, and more recently with Linux, I've tried to champion the
concept/mindset that not everything is i386 (or IA32), that there are
other architectures that it's been/being ported to, and some of them
are 32 bit and some are 64 bit (and, admittedly, there is more than
one 64 bit architecture to which it's been ported that is still
shipping).

Hopefully, this should make folks craft their source code so that
ints are ints and pointers are pointers and neither one is necessarily
32 bits and shouldn't be assumed to be. (Yes, there are some other
details, but you get the idea).

Sadly, the fellow who wrote the ia32 emulator for Alpha has left the
company (and the group that 'owned' it, which was mostly sold to Intel),
so I can't vouch for how viable that emulator is these days.

But, it's illustrative of the point that we need to try to remain
sensitive to the needs of all architectures whenever possible.

And, that's without getting into specific details about the differences
in various implementations of each architecture. (e.g. AMD vs. Piv,
EV4 vs. EV45 vs. EV5 vs. EV56 vs. EV6, etc.).

Just my 20 millidollars' worth, and this, like everything else I spew
from this address, is solely my personal opinion and not that of my
current employer.

Bayard

---
Bayard R. Coolidge  N1HODISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed are
Hewlett-Packard Company solely those of the author, and not
Nashua, New Hampshire, USA  those of the Hewlett-Packard Company,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (DEC '77-'98,CPQ '98-'02)   or any other entity.
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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[pll]

In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:37:42 -
"Rich C" said:

>>   American culture says that amassing money and power are good, so it
>>   must be, right?
>>
>
>Hmmm
>
>"...life, liberty, and the pursuit of hapiness"
>
>I don't see "Power" or "Money" in there at all.

He said American *culture*.  There is no mention of the Declaration 
of Independence, the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights in his statement.
He merely said that "American culture" recognizes that money and 
power are good.  Which is quite accurate.


-- 

Seeya,
Paul

It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
   but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.

 If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!



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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 1:03pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The CodeWeavers Crossover Plugin package will allow you to properly deal
> with both Windows Media Player and Quicktime content under Linux. It is
> not open source/free by any definition, and it costs $30 or so, but it
> works quite well.

  Assuming you run i386 Linux.  I suspect Bayard, for example, would
disagree with you.  :-)

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |




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Re: Question about postings....

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 5:10pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I replied to a post this morning.  I have not yet seen it arrive to the
> list yet.

  I saw a reply from your address, with a subject of "What do people use to
listen to web radio under linux?", this morning.  Is that the message you
are referring to?  If so, I suspect the delay is in your mail feed.

> ... I now have a couple of mail administrator messages in my mailbox.

  Please forward any bounce messages to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, and it
will be taken care of.

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |



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Question about postings....

[numberwhun]

Ok, I have an issue that I am wondering if anyone here 
has an answer to as it is rather annoying.  This issue 
has happened a few times in the past week.  I thought it 
was just me, but am now thinking otherwise. 

I replied to a post this morning.  I have not yet seen it 
arrive to the list yet.  It has been a couple of hours 
since my post and I now have a couple of mail 
administrator messages in my mailbox.  The first one 
says:

**  Begin Quote ***

This Message was undeliverable due to the following 
reason:

 The user(s) account is temporarily over quota.

 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 Please reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 if you feel this message to be in error.

 Reporting-MTA: dns; mtiwgwc25.worldnet.att.net
 Arrival-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:46:21 +
 Received-From-MTA: dns; zmamail05.zma.compaq.com 
(161.114.64.105)

 Original-Recipient: RFC822;<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Final-Recipient: RFC822; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Action: failed
 Status: 4.2.2

* End Quote *

The worst part is I did not send any email to the 
address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  I only sent mail to:

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

and

   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


The second mail administrator message has this in it:


* Begin Quote *

The original message was received at Mon, 24 Jun 2002 
11:46:14 -0400 (EDT)
 from zmamail05.zma.compaq.com [161.114.64.105]

- The following addresses had permanent fatal 
errors -
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

- Transcript of session follows -


  MAILBOX FULL 

 mail.local: user "jkubeck-jk": mailbox full.

 This mail has NOT been delivered to "jkubeck-jk"
  because that mailbox is full.
 Please try again at a later time.

 **
 554 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... Mailbox is full -- try 
later

 Reporting-MTA: dns; mercury.mv.net
 Received-From-MTA: dns; zmamail05.zma.compaq.com
 Arrival-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:46:14 -0400 (EDT)

 Final-Recipient: rfc822; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Action: failed
 Status: 5.0.0
 Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:46:16 -0400 (EDT)

* End Quote *

Again, I didn't send anything to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

My appologies for the long email, but this has happened 
the last few times I have tried to post to the list and 
it is really getting annoying.  Does anyone have any idea 
why this is happening.  Also, it happens when I hit 
'reply'.   If I type in [EMAIL PROTECTED] it seems to 
work ok. 
Thank you in advance for any answers.

Regards,

Jeff Kirkland


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[pll]

In a message dated: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:50:16 EDT
"Matthew J. Brodeur" said:

>I don't know if there is any way to hear Windows Media (.asf) in Linux.

The CodeWeavers Crossover Plugin package will allow you to properly 
deal with both Windows Media Player and Quicktime content under Linux.
It is not open source/free by any definition, and it costs $30 or so, 
but it works quite well.
-- 

Seeya,
Paul

It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing,
   but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away.

 If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!



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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Rich C]

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Greater NH Linux Users' Group" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?


>   American culture says that amassing money and power are good, so it
must
> be, right?
>

Hmmm

"...life, liberty, and the pursuit of hapiness"

I don't see "Power" or "Money" in there at all.

Rich Cloutier
President, C*O
SYSTEM SUPPORT SERVICES
www.sysupport.com



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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[bscott]

On 24 Jun 2002, at 11:41am, Paul Iadonisi wrote:
>> George Orwell's mistake was assuming that the threat of totalitarianism
>> was from government.  1984 is arriving twenty years late.
> 
>   Here, here!  I just had this discussion with my brother over the
> weekend.  What we're heading to, (or rather, what we *have*) is nothing
> short of a plutocracy.

  I prefer the term "corpocracy", myself.  It is not wealthy people that
control this country, but wealthy corporations.

  A particularly good paranoid rant can be found here:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Controlling_Corporations/Introduction_CN.html 

> This isn't conspiracy, as conspiracy is usually hidden.  Our current
> powers that be shamefully flaunt their grab for power as if it were a God
> given right.

  American culture says that amassing money and power are good, so it must
be, right?

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |





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Re: Argh! Mailman, please!

[Michael O'Donnell]

Rather than mentioning it here, please just send a copy
of the offending bounce message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and he'll make the problem go away.


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Re: Argh! Mailman, please!

[bscott]

On 24 Jun 2002, at 11:47am, Paul Iadonisi wrote:
> Can we *please* switch to mailman for the list someday?

  Majordomo can handle bounces quite well.  The configuration of the list
server is a political problem, not a technical one.

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Argh! Mailman, please!

[Paul Iadonisi]

  Can we *please* switch to mailman for the list someday?  It seems
every time I post to this list, I'm bombarded with bounces.  Mailman
handles bounces quite well.  (Not to start a flamewar, or anything ;-)
  I don't remember if this was discussed before, but I'd like to know if
there's any bias against mailman, or if our use of majordomo is mostly
historical.
-- 
-Paul Iadonisi
 Senior System Administrator
 Red Hat Certified Engineer / Local Linux Lobbyist
 Ever see a penguin fly?  --  Try Linux.
 GPL all the way: Sell services, don't lease secrets


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[numberwhun]

I agree, that is a well written, to the point, unbiased 
write-up.  It will be interesting to see what pirate 
stations come out of this.  
> On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 11:00am, Bayard Coolidge USG wrote:
> > There is an interesting article about this in The Register, though:
> > http://www.theregus.com/content/6/25325.html
> 
>   I find Shoutcast's statement on the matter to be the most unbiased I have
> seen yet.  Open  and scroll down past the stream
> list to view it.
> 
>   I think the best point they make is, "... basically forces all
> broadcasters, hobbyist or not, to either move to content that is not
> label-owned, or pay the labels ..." [1].  The works in question are
> protected by copyright; the copyright owners (the media cartel) can do
> whatever they want with them, including deny you access completely.
> 
>   I think the most appropriate action here would be anti-trust proceedings
> against the media cartel.  Their actions are obviously those of a trust
> intent on illegally controlling the market.  Unfortunately, as evidenced by
> such legislation as the DMCA, the media cartel has effectively bought our
> government, making such proceedings unlikely.
> 
>   George Orwell's mistake was assuming that the threat of totalitarianism
> was from government.  1984 is arriving twenty years late.
> 
> Footnote
> 
> 
> [1] Note that this is a quotation, and thus is covered under the
> fair-use provisions of copyright law, and thus is exempt from the 
> copyright restriction that AOL Time Warner places on their statement.
> 
> -- 
> Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
> | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
> | organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |
> 
> 
> *
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> with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body.
> *

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Does anyone know how to reversably disassemble a Compaq laptop

[Bill Freeman]

The boss's Compaq Presario 1200Z laptop has gone catatonic:
The LCD doesn't light, and the external monitor sees no video (it used
to always come up displaying on both).  Of course, backups haven't
been done quite recently enough.  Before sending it in for repairs,
I'd like to copy the hard drive.  I do own an adapter for connecting
normal IDE cable and power to a 2.5" drive, assuming that's what it
has.  But I'd have to be able to get to the drive, and a small amount
of fiddling (all 8 screws on the bottom plus the one accecible through
the open battery port) doesn't seem to loosen things enough.  I can
the end caps off of the display hinge rod easily enough, but not the
center hinge cover, and I hesitate to disassemble the end hinge pieces
without knowing how the electrical connections are made.

Does anyone know how to open these cases without damaging
anything?

Bill

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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 11:00am, Bayard Coolidge USG wrote:
> There is an interesting article about this in The Register, though:
> http://www.theregus.com/content/6/25325.html

  I find Shoutcast's statement on the matter to be the most unbiased I have
seen yet.  Open  and scroll down past the stream
list to view it.

  I think the best point they make is, "... basically forces all
broadcasters, hobbyist or not, to either move to content that is not
label-owned, or pay the labels ..." [1].  The works in question are
protected by copyright; the copyright owners (the media cartel) can do
whatever they want with them, including deny you access completely.

  I think the most appropriate action here would be anti-trust proceedings
against the media cartel.  Their actions are obviously those of a trust
intent on illegally controlling the market.  Unfortunately, as evidenced by
such legislation as the DMCA, the media cartel has effectively bought our
government, making such proceedings unlikely.

  George Orwell's mistake was assuming that the threat of totalitarianism
was from government.  1984 is arriving twenty years late.

Footnote


[1] Note that this is a quotation, and thus is covered under the
fair-use provisions of copyright law, and thus is exempt from the 
copyright restriction that AOL Time Warner places on their statement.

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[bscott]

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, at 10:41am, Steven W. Orr wrote:
> I just discovered this existed and was wondering what I need to do to
> listen.

  You need a player for whatever format the broadcaster is using.

  For example, Shoutcast's network (http://www.shoutcast.com) uses streaming
MP3.  The XMMS player (http://www.xmms.org) handles these just fine.  If you
associate the MIME type "audio/x-scpls" (extension PLS) with XMMS, all you
have to do is click the link in your browser.  This is an "open" standard,
which, of course, means the media cartel discourages it.

  Many commercial radio stations broadcast using RealAudio, which can be
played using RealPlayer.  This is a proprietary format, which makes it more
attractive to the media cartel, since they think that means it will stop
piracy (of course, it does not; it merely inconveniences their customers).  
There is a RealPlayer binary available for Intel Linux which works for most
such systems at .

  For "Windows Media", there is no native player.  Some people report
varying degrees of success using emulation environments like Wine, Win4Lin,
CodeWeavers, etc.

-- 
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Bayard Coolidge USG]

Well, at the moment, I can't listen to web radio at all, as my dial-up
line is way too slow, and I need the bandwidth for real things.

There is an interesting article about this in The Register, though:

http://www.theregus.com/content/6/25325.html

Cheers,

Bayard
---
Bayard R. Coolidge  N1HODISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed are
Hewlett-Packard Company solely those of the author, and not
Nashua, New Hampshire, USA  those of the Hewlett-Packard Company,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (DEC '77-'98,CPQ '98-'02)   or any other entity.
"Brake for Moose - It could save your life" - N.H. Fish & Game Dept.
-BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
Version: 3.12
GCS/CC d+ s:+ a++ C+++$ UO++$L++>$ P L++>$ E-@ W+ N++ o- K? w--- O? M?
V-- PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP- t++ 5? X? R* tv b++ DI+++ D? G e++ h-- r++ y? UF++
-END GEEK CODE BLOCK-
---

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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Michael O'Donnell]

I listen to 90.9 WBUR (NPR affiliate from BU -
excellent; consider supporting them) and 92.5 WXRV
from time to time using RealPlayer, which works
pretty well.  RealPlayer can be launched by your
browser (I used to use NetScape and now use Mozilla)
or as a standalone app - it's quite straightforward.

I've heard that XMMS works, too, but I've never tried
it with WWW radio streams.

You can find lists of stations that deliver content
over the Net fairly easily with a WWW browser.
I believe I've heard that WWW radio is on the decline
since it consumes a lot of resources and (apparently)
fails to generate sufficient revenues.


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Re: What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Matthew J. Brodeur]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Steven W. Orr wrote:

> I just discovered this existed and was wondering what I need to do to 
> listen.

   XMMS, usually.  My version of web radio is usually a private stream off
of a server at home, but the concept is the same.  XMMS does mp3 and ogg
very nicely, and there are plugins for other formats.  I _think_ that you
have to use the actual Real Player to listen to RM streams.  I don't know
if there is any way to hear Windows Media (.asf) in Linux.


- -- 
 -Matt

The only solution is ... a balance of power.  We arm our side with exactly
that much more.  A balance of power -- the trickiest, most difficult,
dirtiest game of them all.  But the only one that preserves both sides.
-- Kirk, "A Private Little War", stardate 4211.8
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9FzGrc8/WFSz+GKMRAi6YAJ97fY8WdftKYm8iHS7vv75L3RsGsgCfTYPO
r43l3capBoOl1bc+ttwyDts=
=hk6E
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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What do people use to listen to web radio under linux?

[Steven W. Orr]

I just discovered this existed and was wondering what I need to do to 
listen.

TAI

-- 
-Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have -
-happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ
-Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all-
-individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question? [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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