Re: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
http://www.midwestlinux.com/products/suse/bru2000.html Rich Cloutier President, C*O SYSTEM SUPPORT SERVICES www.sysupport.com * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In a message dated: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:22:23 EDT Benjamin Scott said: I considered Amanda. Amanda really isn't appropriate, for, as I understand it, Amanda has to write the backup set to disk before writing it to tape. It doesn't *have* to, it just makes thing faster for over-the-net backups of remote machines. We have a single system with lots of disk we want to backup to tape. Amanda can be used to back up it's local disk, in which case you probably wouldn't need to use the holding-disk, since the data is close enough to the drive to keep it streaming. However, this doesn't mean that amanda is necessarilly the right tool for you. Doubling the storage just to run Amanda is not acceptable. I guess it comes down to what's cheaper, a commercial backup package that may or may not work, or a 200GB IDE drive and amanda :) Can anyone make a recommendation? Commercial software will be considered. Legato is good, but expensive and slow. Veritas has something as well. Don't know whether they have Linux based servers yet, but they both have Linux clients AFAIK. HTH. - -- Seeya, Paul -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 (debian 2.2-1) iD8DBQE8wEzcuweSOVPxKO4RAlTVAKCfG68N5Upfoptt20ll/SCYS0XTrQCfYThy sifD5coBzqzqeYNKbk/K3t4= =R/ph -END PGP SIGNATURE- * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
We are using Networker from Lagato http://www.legato.com/;. We backup all types of hosts, but so far we've only used Sun's or SGI's as the backup servers. We've used the 4700 DLT's as well as 30 tape DLT drives and AIT tape units. All seem to have there own problems but nothing really related to the Networker software. The down side is that it's expensive and they tend to nickel dime you for everything seperately. Make sure you get a quote with all the hardware you have (counting robotic tape slots and number of drives) and OS's you intend to backup. -- Robert E. Anderson email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Systems Programmer phone: (603) 862-3489 UNH Research Computing Centerfax: (603) 862-1761 -- * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
Robert Anderson said: We are using Networker from Lagato http://www.legato.com/;. We backup all types of hosts, but so far we've only used Sun's or SGI's as the backup servers. We've used the 4700 DLT's as well as 30 tape DLT drives and AIT tape units. All seem to have there own problems but nothing really related to the Networker software. The down side is that it's expensive and they tend to nickel dime you for everything seperately. Make sure you get a quote with all the hardware you have (counting robotic tape slots and number of drives) and OS's you intend to backup. Legato also has scaling issues. if you're backing up 100 machines, you probably won't hit it. Also the internal database the use to track things blows often gets corrupted. Given the expense and the scaling issues, I'd go with something else. I've had luck with veritas amanda in the past on smaller sites. -- --- Tom Buskey * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, at 12:59pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I considered Amanda. Amanda really isn't appropriate, for, as I understand it, Amanda has to write the backup set to disk before writing it to tape. It doesn't *have* to, it just makes thing faster for over-the-net backups of remote machines. Okay, I went back and checked, and I was remembering wrong. It was not that Amanda requires using the holding disk, it was that Amanda cannot span a filesystem across tapes. I just went and double-checked my notes, and there is a FAQ entry to back me up: http://amanda.sourceforge.net/fom-serve/cache/32.html Am I understanding this wrong? Veritas has something as well. Don't know whether they have Linux based servers yet, but they both have Linux clients AFAIK. Veritas has a NetBackup that claims to support Linux as the server. But I was hoping to find something that someone here has actually used, though. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In a message dated: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:37:18 EDT Tom Buskey said: Legato also has scaling issues. if you're backing up 100 machines, you probably won't hit it. Also the internal database the use to track things blows often gets corrupted. I've heard the same about Legato, but have no direct experience with it. The other thing that I'm not too keen on wrt proprietary backup solutions is the proprietary format the data is sealed in. What happens if your backup server dies and you need to restore something before the rebuild is finished? You have to wait! They tell you that their format is compatible with standard tar, but a) what is standard? and b) what they don't tell you, is that to maintain that compatibility you can not enable any of their performance enhancing features. Well, if you're going to pay all that money and not get the performance they promised, you may as well stay with tar, and save the expense! Given the expense and the scaling issues, I'd go with something else. I've had luck with veritas amanda in the past on smaller sites. I would take a look at http://www.backupcentral.com/. This site is run by W. Curtis Preston, who is well regarded throughout the industry as the Backup God. He's consulted for just about everyone who has large scale backup needs and knows his stuff. He also wrote the O'Reilly book on backups. - -- Seeya, Paul -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 (debian 2.2-1) iD8DBQE8wGXbuweSOVPxKO4RAgZpAKCeKNimIjIOTEZrUrzOM1q0sE+uyQCfYp5s wxGXJsGHukc+cDB5LISDZk4= =sHH9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In a message dated: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:48:56 EDT Benjamin Scott said: Okay, I went back and checked, and I was remembering wrong. It was not that Amanda requires using the holding disk, it was that Amanda cannot span a filesystem across tapes. I just went and double-checked my notes, and there is a FAQ entry to back me up: http://amanda.sourceforge.net/fom-serve/cache/32.html Am I understanding this wrong? No, you're not. That's correct. However, if you have a single file system smaller than one tape, that's not a problem. Also, you can use Gnu tar such that you back up directory hierarchies separately, and therefore don't need to have the file system span tapes. One tape contains some directories, overflow rolls to the subsequent tapes. For example, if you have a 100GB fs, and you're using DLT IV tapes which only take about 80GB compressed, rather than using dump to dump the entire file system, have amanda use gnu tar to dump separate directories. That way you can prune things down to workable sizes. Most of the people on the amanda-users list do things this way, especially since Linus has more than once stated that people shouldn't rely upon dump, and that it will someday suddenly disappear. But I was hoping to find something that someone here has actually used, though. :-) Geeez! You want everything! ;) - -- Seeya, Paul -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 (debian 2.2-1) iD8DBQE8wGekuweSOVPxKO4RAuXKAJ92y7zNd/aEI9ztD3POGqsx8Wu6wwCfaAG0 fXamwNm4mzjMrlfpDF0p850= =LLPM -END PGP SIGNATURE- * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
RE: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
I currenty use Veritas Backup Exec to backup all Windows and Linux Systems with no problems. I am in the process of evaluating Veritas Netbackup Data Center to backup all Windows, Linux and Silicon Graphics Systems. No major problems so far. -Original Message- From: Benjamin Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 11:22 AM To: Greater NH Linux Users' Group Subject: Sophisticated backup software for Linux Hey list, Can anyone recommend some backup software for Linux, that is known to actually work? I'm getting really tired of fighting buggy backup programs that fall apart at the drop of a hat, or won't do what we need to. We have got a big server with a large RAID store -- 605 GB, to be exact. It also has a 14-tape DLT7000 changer attached to it. We simply want a way to make full, incremental and differential backups of plain old files to tape. Due to the size of the dataset, the backup solution has to be able to span a backup run over multiple tapes. We tried NovaNet, a commercial product that has worked well for us on MS-Windows. It looked nice at first, but consistently locks up and needs serious attention to unwedge it again. :-( We had been using GNU tar -- it was simple, and not exactly fast, but it worked. Then we hit this bug with long file names that span a tape. I've looked at the GNU tar code to see if I could fix it -- I'm still having nightmares. I looked at star -- no multi-volume support. I looked at GNU cpio -- no multi-volume support. I looked at afio -- it claims to support multi-volumes, but the code is older than time and not maintained, and I'm not sure I want to trust it for this. I considered Amanda. Amanda really isn't appropriate, for, as I understand it, Amanda has to write the backup set to disk before writing it to tape. We have a single system with lots of disk we want to backup to tape. Doubling the storage just to run Amanda is not acceptable. Can anyone make a recommendation? Commercial software will be considered. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. * * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, at 2:53pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, if you have a single file system smaller than one tape, that's not a problem. Nope. :-( Also, you can use Gnu tar such that you back up directory hierarchies separately, and therefore don't need to have the file system span tapes. The directory/file structure for this application is under constant flux, so that would make things labor intensive. I want to avoid that if I possibly can. For example, if you have a 100GB fs, and you're using DLT IV tapes which only take about 80GB compressed, rather than using dump to dump the entire file system, have amanda use gnu tar to dump separate directories. ext2dump is out in any event. We're using ReiserFS. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: In a message dated: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:48:56 EDT Benjamin Scott said: For example, if you have a 100GB fs, and you're using DLT IV tapes which only take about 80GB compressed, rather than using dump to dump the entire file system, have amanda use gnu tar to dump separate directories. That way you can prune things down to workable sizes. Most of the people on the amanda-users list do things this way, especially since Linus has more than once stated that people shouldn't rely upon dump, and that it will someday suddenly disappear. dump is also filesystem specific. Linux dump works with ext2/ext3 only. If you're using ReiserFS, JFS, XFS, or vfat (or anything else), dump won't work. But I was hoping to find something that someone here has actually used, though. :-) I've converted a small site (200 machines, 3 DLT 10 tape stackers) away from 3 legato server backing up 100 unix only systems to 2 veritas netbackup backing up 100 unix and 100 windows NT/9x systems. One server was Solaris, the other NT. I was also involved in converting a large site (12 web hosting data centers with 100-300 machines per DC, 4-12 DLT tape drive jukes at each DC. One DC backed up 1.2TB each night) from Legato to TSM. The servers were all solaris. If you're a huge site and you're going to heavily customize your backup system, TSM is a good way to go. If you just want the standard backups, Veritas Netbackup is good. They use standard gnutar 1.12 (?) to backup unless you're doing multiplex writing. Then they use a modified gnutar. To restore, you need just the single gtar they provide. Their licensing also allows you to setup a test system to experiment with, etc. They don't use a license manager. -- --- Tom Buskey * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
Re: Sophisticated backup software for Linux
On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, at 3:44pm, Tom Buskey wrote: If you're a huge site and you're going to heavily customize your backup system, TSM is a good way to go. Nope, just a single server with a moderately large filesystem. If you just want the standard backups, Veritas Netbackup is good. I was looking at that. Based on your description, it sounds like we might try evaluating that one next. They use standard gnutar 1.12 (?) to backup unless you're doing multiplex writing. Then they use a modified gnutar. To restore, you need just the single gtar they provide. H. We *were* using GNU tar -- then we ran into this bug with a long file name spanning a tape. I wonder if Veritas has fixed that bug? If so, we should be able to get the source from them (per the GPL). On the other hand, I wonder if they have not fixed the bug, and we will still have the problem? Or, on the third hand, maybe they bypass it by splitting archives over tapes outside of GNU tar. I love computers. :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not | | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or | | organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | * To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the text 'unsubscribe gnhlug' in the message body. *
