[GreenYouth] Re: P.Geetha on Night Vigil
are not much bothered by this mantle of 'anarchists' discarded on our backs, the baggage of 'ganja' and alcohol it is filled with, is at times a bit heavy to carry. So it would be good if those who are raising these accusations have solid evidence to base them upon. And another thing which made us happy is that the demand is made to the 'government'. If AIDWA took brooms and cow dung, P.Geetha is 'taking' state to clear off the civil society of political adversaries. This is not in the least surprising as Savarna hindutva and state have always been natural allies. Poor AIDWA, they haven't yet learned the trick of sugar coating it in revolutionary rhetoric. Let us play a mind game. What will happen if 'Revolutionaries' like P.Geetha assume absolute power? Who will be 'left' in Kerala? Let us ask a very simple question to those who raise hue and cry over the diminished importance for Chengara agitation. nammude natile 'rashtreeya' budhijeevikal evideyayirunnu ithuvare? .We attempted to make public protest out of the guilt that such an important and massive agitation is being suppressed by the state, party and media. We don't make tall claims as we feel that whatever we did was insufficient. Even this 'we' is not an unchanging group, but individuals coming together in an issue based/ programme based manner. To list the activities we were part of till now.. 1. Raising this issue in KariNiyamaVirudha Convention In calicut , November 1st. 2.Continued internet and media interventions by posting appeals and facts and other issues connected with this agitation.Folloing this , Mr. Shaji gave a Report in Thehelka which helped in attracting national attention on the issue. 3.A protest demonstration by Non CPIM forum for Democracy in IFFK in December 2007.. About 40 concerned people participated. K.Gopinath, J.Devika, Janaki, Elizabeth,K.K.Baburaj et al participated. 4.Night Vigil in front of secretariate Trivandrum, in the context of agitators resorting to suicide threat to ward off police action of eviction. About 40 concerned people participated. BRPBhaskar, Sanni Kapikkad and CSJayachandran spoke. 5.Convention at Calicut Press Club auditorium ( convenors: Gargi, Raveendran Op, Vidhu Vincent, Reshma R) subsequent to Night Vigil. A.Vasu inaugurated. Civic Chandran, V.P.Suhara, A.K.Ramakrishnan, Subrahmanian, Sanni Kapikkad spoke. A documentary on Chengara agitation was screened. An organizing committee for national convention in Pathanam Thitta on April 25 consisting of A.Vasu ( Chair Person), RekhaRaj, Elizabeth, M.B.Manoj (Convenors) was announced. 6.Tried to engage public including CPIM sympathizers through various media. At least these ideal activists with ancestry and pedigree could utter Chengara while condemning Night Vigil. Instead of pouring oil into the CPIM slandering campaigns against Chengara agitations, we hope they will show us the right way in engaging politics. We don't mind if we are untouchables to these puritans. All these small overtures were attempted by us on mutual trust and respect. No protest is a solo performance. Neither is Night vigil. One should at least consider the whole sequence and context before condemning it in toto, if they are really friends of Chengara struggle as they claim. We all are thriving on the hyped myths about Kerala's public sphere and civil society. ( We were sad to read in today's newspapers that Pinarayi Vijayan alleged CIA connection to Chengara struggle in the esteemed presence of KNPanikkar and M Mukundan, who mourn continuously over the shrinking of Malayali Civil Society) Very minimal is actually happening out there. Let us wake up out of this inflated myth and form ourselves part of an emerging civil society, through solidarities built between the marginalized among marginalized, outcastes, stigmatized and cultural untouchables. Reshma Bharadwaj DileepRaj DELETE button is history. Unlimited mail storage is just a click away. Go to https://edit.india.yahoo.com/config/eval_register -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: Plachimada - towards 7th year
I am a fan of Live-O Cola - it has a tangy taste and was introduced when Coke was first banned in India (I forget the year), but still has a strong market and is pronounced love-o and like scissors in Kerala stands for a generic name for soft drinks inat least Kongu Tamil Nadu On 08/04/2008, salimtk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: any ethical question in drinking cola? On 4/7/08, Dileep Raj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Brahma Puthran [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dileep R I thuravoor -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: We fully support China on Tibet: Hugo Chavez
Dear Appunni Your reply should go to the list rather than me personally Listservs including the Communist Mazdoor KisanParty of Pakistan, CITU etc.do not seem to agree with you - they claim China for the Communist cause and the Tibetan struggle as an imperialist one sponsored by the US- Dalai Lama being used as the figurative head and they deny the existence of groups like the TYC. I am not part of the Malayala Manorama fraternity, nor do I subscribe to US propaganda, which does not mean that I should blindly subscribe to propaganda by party mechanisms. I would be very interested in what the position of communists would be vis-a-vis Tibet, Chengara, Nandigram, Dr. Binyak Sen etc, not mere rhetoric. I certainly would like to refer to Dr. Venkity's article on Chengara in infochange thatwas posted on this list. The constant refrain and allegation has been the lack of democratic space to discuss these issues on this list. In that context, I would like it, if you could initiate a discussion on this percieved competition for market between US, China and Malayala Manorama in a non-rhetorical argument. As a caveat, I am no fan of the neo-liberal market economics being sponsored by the US and China, nor am I a fan of any insidous mud-slinging, even if it has the sanction of institutionsthat claim Marxist sanctity Thanks On 13/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is only part of competition for market between China and US both of which are capitalists. Calling China a 'communist country' is only to attack communist parties in the world. This tactics universally propagated by US administration and followed by 'Malayala Manorama' like medias in Kerala. appunni On 4/13/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Viva Tibet Am part of various communist party lists, but all of them are about Our Marx in Heaven, the countries you have made - so since China is communist, Tibet ought to be part of China and collective memories should forget Tiannenmen Square. So Hugo Chavez also has a stake in China and Tibet, which is of coursedifferent from Bush. If we confessionally on the left of the political spectrum are serious about politics, then we will kill people who disagree with us and kill for people who kill others who agree with us. circular argument right??? Best On 11/04/2008, aryakrishnan ramakrishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adine pattiyakkan Chavezum moshamalla. Aryan We fully support China on Tibet: Hugo Chavez Sujay Mehdudia, The Hindu, April 11 2008 http://www.hindu.com/2008/04/11/stories/2008041162341300.htm CARACAS (VENEZUELA): Venezuela President Hugo Chavez on Wednesday came out solidly in support of China on the Tibet issue and ridiculed attempts to disrupt the Beijing Olympic Games. He said his country and people were strongly behind Beijing on the issue and considered Tibet an integral part of China. We are strongly with the people of China. We fully support the People's Republic of China on the Tibet issue. It has our complete and unrestricted solidarity. The United States is behind all that is happening as it wants to derail the Beijing Olympics. We ask the world to come out in support of China on this matter and ensure that the Olympics are a big success, President Chavez told a group of visiting Indian journalists at an interaction in the presidential palace along with Petroleum Minister Murli Deora. Later, a Foreign Ministry communiqué said that in the face of incessant and systematic campaigns of disgrace that China had been a victim of in the last few weeks, the people of Venezuela and its government were with it. Mr. Chavez said India and Venezuela have a big role to play in various areas of interests, including the fight against poverty. He indicated that to further expand and strengthen the relationship in the future, Venezuela was looking for participation by the Indian government and its companies in science and technology, education, pharmaceuticals, requirements pertaining to medical equipment, food processing and the housing sector. Mr. Chavez said Mr. Deora's visit was excellent and the Joint Commission of both countries would meet soon to discuss these issues. Not only Venezuela but the entire Latin America were for further increasing relations with India. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: Save the Olympics
-- Forwarded message -- From: Ricken Patel - Avaaz.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 18 Apr 2008 00:32 Subject: Save the Olympics To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Friends, *The Beijing Olympics are a crucial chance to persuade China's leaders to support dialogue and human rights in Tibet*, as well as Burma and Darfur, and we need to seize it. China wants the Olympics to be a coming out party for a newly modern, powerful, and respectable nation. But the *Olympics are about humanity and excellence--*we can't celebrate them in good conscience while ignoring the suffering of Tibetans and others. So Avaaz is launching a *major new campaign: SAVE THE OLYMPICS.* We'll ask China to save the Olympics for all of us, by making specific, reasonable progress in dialogue with the Dalai Lama, securing release of Burmese and Tibetan political prisoners, and supporting peacekeeping in Darfur. Our appeal will be placed on *billboards and ads* in major cities, in Chinese overseas publications, and we'll hire a *Chinese language team* to engage directly on China's lively blogs and in chatrooms. We need 10,000 donations from people from 100 countries to kickstart the campaign this week with a truly global sponsorship--click below to see the ads and *donate whatever you can, however small*: https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_the_olympics/3.phphttps://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_the_olympics/3.php?cl=77454432 Within China, where the Olympics were once seen as a victory for greater openness and internationalism, the internal debate has taken a bitter turn. *Most Chinese are now growing angry over Olympic activism*, seeing it as biased and anti-Chinese. *If the games are a fiasco, China's repressive hardliners will win the day*--and we could see the worst crackdown yet. We need to stop this, and fast. So our campaign aims to reach out to China and Chinese people to show that we're not anti-China but pro-humanitarian, and that our desire is to save the 2008 Olympics, not ruin them. Click below to donate now: https://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_the_olympics/3.phphttps://secure.avaaz.org/en/save_the_olympics/3.php?cl=77454432 The Slogan of the 2008 Olympics is One World, One Dream. Let's reach across barriers of perception and division, and ask the Chinese to make this dream come true for us this summer. With hope, Ricken, Ben, Graziela, Galit, Pascal, Iain, Milena, Sabrina and the whole Avaaz Team. PS – If you are new to Avaaz, *we are a new global campaigning organization*launched in January 2007 that has rapidly grown to *over 3 million members in every nation on earth*. The Economist magazine has written of the power of Avaaz to Give world leaders a deafening wake up call http://www.avaaz.org/en/media.php, and we have been featured on the BBC talkshow HARDtalkhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/7070878.stm. David Miliband, the UK foreign secretary, calls Avaaz the best of the new in foreign policy http://www.avaaz.org/blog/en/dialogue_with_power/. You can see the results of our last campaign fundraiser, on Burma herehttp://www.avaaz.org/en/burma_report_back/, and the results of our last campaign on climate change herehttp://www.avaaz.org/en/bali_report_back/, as well as other campaign results herehttp://www.avaaz.org/en/report_back_1/. Avaaz Foundation is a legally registered non-profit organization. - *ABOUT AVAAZ* Avaaz.org is an independent, not-for-profit global campaigning organization that works to ensure that the views and values of the world's people inform global decision-making. (Avaaz means voice in many languages.) Avaaz receives no money from governments or corporations, and is staffed by a global team based in London, Rio de Janeiro, New York, Paris, Washington DC, and Geneva. *Don't forget to check out our Facebookhttp://www.facebook.com/pages/Avaaz/8340223883and Myspace http://www.myspace.com/avaazorg pages!* You are getting this message because you signed Stand with Tibet - Support the Dalai Lama http://www.avaaz.org/en/tibet_end_the_violence on 2008-03-24 using the email address [EMAIL PROTECTED] To ensure that Avaaz messages reach your inbox, please add [EMAIL PROTECTED] your address book. To change your email address, language settings, or other personal information, https://secure.avaaz.org/act/index.php?r=profileuser=0ca4c0f8166679a6c2a9b10432762a5dlang=en. , or simply *go here to unsubscribehttps://secure.avaaz.org/act/?r=unsubcl=77454432[EMAIL PROTECTED]b=379v=1554lang=en *. To contact Avaaz, please *do not reply to this email.* Instead, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can also send postal mail to our New York office: 260 Fifth Avenue, 9th floor, New York, NY 10001 U.S.A. If you have technical problems, please go to http://www.avaaz.org. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post
[GreenYouth] Fwd: People's Watch - Campaign - Tamilnadu, India - STF victims Long March - MARCHERS ARRESTED
Apologies for cross-posting -- Forwarded message -- From: Sabitha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 20 Apr 2008 14:22 Subject: People's Watch - Campaign - Tamilnadu, India - STF victims Long March - MARCHERS ARRESTED To: Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Long March for Justice for the STF Victims* *Four Hundred marching under leadership of VPG, Henri Tiphagne, Mahaboob Batcha et al have been arrested by the Tamil Nadu Government at the outkirts of Sathyamangalam in the Erode District of Tamil Nadu. Marchers presently in custody in the Ramasamy Goundar Maryammal Wedding hall in Sathyamangalam.* Appended is a brief report of the DAY I of the march. Attached are some photos of the march and the public meeting that preceded it. *- The Campaign for the Relief and Rehabilitation of STF Victims from Tamil Nadu and Karnataka * * * *Long March for Justice for STF Victims* *Day 1* The Long March for Justice for STF victims taken out by the Campaign for the Relief and Rehabilitation of STF Victims from Tamil Nadu and Karnataka took off today at Sathyamangalam in Erode District, despite being denied police permission. The March was preceded by a public meeting held at the New Bus Stand in Sathyamangalam at 9.30. a.m. today, the 20th of April, 2008. The 2 – hour long meeting was addressed by T. Pandian, State Secretary, CPI, Tamil Nadu, V. P. Gunasekaran, CPI District Secretary, leaders from DPI, C.J. Rajan, CHRM, Adv. Pa Pa Mohan of Pazhangudi Makkal Sangam, Adv. Balamurugan of PUCL, Mr. Henri Tiphagne, Executive Director, People's Watch and Mr. Mahaboob Batcha, Managing Trustee, SOCO Trust, among others. A 500 – strong crowd comprising of leaders of political parties, STF victims and members of the Campaign for the Relief and Rehabilitation of STF Victims from Tamil Nadu and Karnataka then began their long march. *At the outskirts of Sathyamangalam, police stopped the marchers and prevented them from going further. Four hundred of the marchers including Henri Tiphagne, Mahaboob Batcha and V.P. Gunasekaran were arrested. They are presently under police custody at the Ramasamy Goundar Maryammal Wedding Hall in Sathyamangalam. * -- *From:* Henri Tiphagne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Saturday, April 19, 2008 2:10 PM *To:* 'Rikke Nöhrlind' *Cc:* 'Jason Hoffman'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Subject:* People's Watch - Campaign - Tamilnadu, India - STF victims Long March - Request support, urgent appeal and solidarity Dear Rikke, I am addressing this letter as the member of the Campaign for Relief and Rehabilitation of Victims of the STF violence in the States of Karnataka and Tamil Nadu in India. These victims are victims of gross violence of torture, cruel and inhumane treatment, degrading punishment, disappearances, extra judicial killings, custodial rapes, arbitrary detention and so on. Their cases are pathetic, the note that is enclosed will speak that people have undergone such torture. A few sample cases are also enclosed. This campaign is now commencing a long march of about hundred victims supported by different political parties in Tamil Nadu to demand justice – justice from the Government, justice from National Human Rights Commission and justice from civil society. These are cases of one or two or ten or hundred victims. These are the cases of over thousand victims, men and women, who have suffered and are struggling to re-live their lives while their perpetrators are parading on the corridors of the poor with their awards, out of turn promotions, crores worth of properties made over to them, with their hands soaked in blood that over hundreds of innocent men and women have shed. The International Human Rights Community has so far been not an active participant of these issues and while the march goes on from Sathyamangalam to Chennai from 20th to the 30th of April, 2008 People's Watch would desire that your organisation speaks, writes, and distributes widely the information on the march as well as demands of the march. We do hope that justice will prevail to these hundreds of victims with your efforts of building solidarity. You will be therefore receiving regular information from here on the long march which we hope you will disseminate widely in your networks. We do hope you will be willing to undertake urgent appeals on this matter addressed to the State Government of Tamil Nadu, State Government of Karnataka, Government of India, a variety of other agencies including the National Human Rights Commission of India, State Human Rights Commission of Tamil Nadu, State Human Rights Commission of Karnataka – all to make the noise and put pressure to fight against impunity that accompanying these horrendous violations that have taken place. Many of these victims and their family members have died. But I do think that those who are living are living only with the hope that International voices against
[GreenYouth] Re: April 20, Ernakulam
Just to add
the word *mort *means death. legally, if there is a suspicion of death by
unnatural causes (meaning death that could attract criminal provisions), one
of the investigative procedures to establish the cause of death is the
examination of the dead body and falls fully within the realm of criminal
investigation aka policing - private post-mortem is as undesirable
as private policing. Internationally the only exception to post-mortem in
case of an unnatural death is when it involves the Pope (to the best of my
knowledge - ref: David Yallop, *In God's Name, *where he alleges that Pope
John Paul I (Alberto Luciano) was murdered). Post-mortem itself is not a
human right, but investigation is and post-mortem is an integral part of it
insofar as dissection is concerned there are many people (including me) who
have declared a living will to donate our bodies to the nearest medical
college on our death. But there is a huge scam there too which can be
discussed later
On 21/04/2008, Dileep Raj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1. State is bound to find the truth behind the death of any citizen
including marginalised among the marginalised in the street. { Think of
construction workers from other states who got killed in Ernakulam
recently}That is a human right.
2.Postmortem is not part of the syllabus in Medical Colleges. It is
allowed for self financing students to witness
postmortems in government medical colleges. Dissection and postmortem are
two different processes.
On 4/21/08, aryakrishnan ramakrishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Other than religious or emotional reasons, what are the reasons behind
the opposition? How does postmortem generally happen? Without the
consent of the relatives, can the hospital go ahead? And in cases
where there are no relatives, how it is decided? Also I would like to
know if private post mortem is valid, legally?
I also wonder, without dead bodies how do students learn surgery and
other things? I have been seriously thinking of writing a will to give
my body for medical students.
On 4/21/08, Dileep Raj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Meeting yesterday decided to organise a sugnatutre campaign in
Cheranallur
against private postmortems in Amrutha Hospital. The Government says
its
policy is
not to alllow postmortems in Self Financing Colleges. The government
says it
is illegal to do so.
The same government allow private postmortem to continue in Amrutha
because the order was issued by UDF government!! Other managements
could
easily ask for permission pointing out this custom.
A convention and rally will be organised on May 25th in
Cheranalloore.
Organissing committee members: M.K.Sanu, K.Gireeshkumar( General
Convenor),
Civic Chandran, Kalpatta Narayanan, K.Rajmohan(Convenor), George,
Reshma
Bharadwaj, Geo Jose, O P Raveendran, Thshar Nirmal Sarathy,
K.T.Nelson,
K.D.Martin, Padmakumar, Shaji chirayath, jacob Lasar, M.Hamsa,
T.K.Vasu and
K V Jayan
On 4/19/08, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
postmortem outside its medical terminology and professionalism
seeems
to me always scariest social interference on human body. it's been
noticed that muslims try their best to avoid it even if it is an
'evil' death. there may be some religious interests behind it. there
are sentimental urges too in avoiding postmoterm.
deaths other than natural deaths require postmoterm to prevent the
crime and to punish the guilty. nobody will 'innocently' believe
that
govt hospitals are functioning with no corruptions and nepotism. but
the anticipated social accountability and jurisdiction make them the
only institutions to carry out this scariest social act under the
system of crime and punishment.
the term private postmoterm is even scarier.
ahmed
On 4/18/08, Dileep Raj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A planning meeting to think about the convention and rally in
Cheranalloor
against privete postmortems
in Amrutha Hospital.
Organised by VadhasikshaVirudha Samithi
Venue: Friday Club Hall ( behind stock Exchange)
Time, 3 pm
--
Dileep R I thuravoor
--
Dileep R I thuravoor
--
Bobby Kunhu
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[GreenYouth] Fwd: Urgent Attention!!! Nagpur Prisoners Health serious
-- Forwarded message -- From: chandrika media [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 23 Apr 2008 17:58 Subject: Fwd: Urgent Attention!!! Nagpur Prisoners Health serious Dear Friends, I have previously sent mails about the HUNGER STRIKE going on by the prisoners in Nagpur Central Jail. AS the hunger strike has been going on from April 7, the prisoners' health condition is very serious. All of them are being hospitalized now and then. Some are unable to walk. One or two have fainted due to the schorching heat and weakness. The authorities are bent on ignoring their demands but the prisoners are determined to carry on the fast unto death. Ten others from Amravati have joined the hunger strike. Meanwhile in Western Maharashtra, MLA Kapil Patil is going to sit on hunger strike in support of some of the prisoners. The Deputy Chief Minister R R Patil has been met by a number of delegations of Dalit leaders and other intellectuals. He ordered an inquiry, but since it was the Anti Naxal Operations IG who conducted the inquiry, the prisoners were not satisfied. I am once again sending separately their demands PLEASE TAKE SOME APPROPRIATE ACTION AT YOUR LEVEL. Shoma -- चन्द्रिका सम्पादक-दख़ल भित्ति पत्रिका dakhalkiduniya.blogspot.com -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: GPramachandran against Grand Anti Communist Alliance!!
simple question what is communism would like to be educated on that On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dear friend, You are asking so many questions which both you and me can not answer. More over, you are not expecting a reply as those questions are reserved with your answers. Let me repeat. CPI(M) does not represent a communist party. Every rightist forces know this well. So they are utilising this to attack communist parties. Chengara struggle may be conducted with or without the leadership of a communist party. On the other hand, a communist party shall uphold the slogan ' land for tiller' and their new democratic revolutionary movements shall incorporate that slogan as its main axis. This should be the strategy of a communist party as the objective condtions in India like countries are accordingly. Therefore, a communist party should support all land struggles like 'Chengara' and should lead it if necessary. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:39 PM, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: communist parties ? please advise why people at struggle in Chengara need a communist party. does anybody need to symbolize cpim as communist party? what does make a communist party really a communist party? what are the signs of 'purity'? is there any single communist party which doesnt say that they are the 'original'? why do we need to run after each communist party to test whether it is real or no? what kind of great revolution u r planning to do and in which century? Ahmed On 4/23/08, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friends, It is a usual tactics of rightist forces and rightist medias by symbolising CPI(M) as a real communist party, exposing that party and generalising that communist parties are like this. It is unfortunate that even many progressive thinking people are also repeating the same blah blahs. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:03 AM, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oho...now it s clear comrade it s to save the world from US imperialism that those bloody CPM cadres raped and killed Dalits in Nandigram .. and damn those women cadres of CPM, who asked what was that dalit woman doing in the field at 4am (where else will she shit? and what were comrades doing in the field? reading communist manifesto?!!) what a great revolutionary act comrades!! On 4/22/08, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: feel sorry for him... but good that he broke his silence at least in chintha. it was a bit suspensful for me when i see many responses to him and some even requested for his response on Chengara and some threatened with spm mails. but he just repeated what pinarayi n all said proving that all of them are really 'red'. as k.k.koch rightly said, communism is as dangerous as fascism to the indigenous people around the world. Ahmed On 4/22/08, Dileep Raj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In an article in Chinta weekly GPramachandran (2008 April 18) justifies CPIM's abti democratic standpoints/ actions on Tibet, Nandigram, Chengara and Arayamkudi. He alleges that there are 'objective' evidences for America's interventions in Kerala. Nandigram and chengara are being manipulated by certain forces to thwart wider unity formed aginst USimperialism, globalisation,communalisation and fascism.(p.23) In Nandigram and Kolkotta, certain forces are 'depicting' CPIM as enemy and unleashing attacks by siding with Congress, BJP, Thrunamool, Maoists and Islamic Fundamentalists (pp24--25) He concludes the article by stating that we should take it seriously that anti communists are able to create a group political hysteria around nandigram issue. -- Dileep R I thuravoor -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: GPramachandran against Grand Anti Communist Alliance!!
I still have the basic question Whats Communism? Please provide me a bibliography On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear ahmed, You said: Patronise people struggles for party aspirations. Yes. You are right. Those who are worried in this are only rightist forces whatever be their labels. You may feel 'communism' or 'marxism' or 'leninism' are cliche. No problem. Because, you are not communist. But it is basic foundations of a communist party. When I say cpim is not a communist party, it does not mean that its cadres are not communist aspirants. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:17 PM, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it is not based on any kind of 'hatred' peeople here defend the attack of the cpim's insult and atrocities on people's struggles. party's brutal ground level voilence on people is shamefully justified by its red intellectuals. telling them that they are not real communist is the right response? nobody here seems to be having any kind of 'apartheid' to the communists. but it seems to be high time to realize that the cliches like new democratic revolutions, incorporation to the axis for a grand revolution, objectivve conditions and all have hitherto been used to patronize the people struggles for party (excuse me, but all communist parties) aspirations. Ahmed On 4/23/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: simple question what is communism would like to be educated on that On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dear friend, You are asking so many questions which both you and me can not answer. More over, you are not expecting a reply as those questions are reserved with your answers. Let me repeat. CPI(M) does not represent a communist party. Every rightist forces know this well. So they are utilising this to attack communist parties. Chengara struggle may be conducted with or without the leadership of a communist party. On the other hand, a communist party shall uphold the slogan ' land for tiller' and their new democratic revolutionary movements shall incorporate that slogan as its main axis. This should be the strategy of a communist party as the objective condtions in India like countries are accordingly. Therefore, a communist party should support all land struggles like 'Chengara' and should lead it if necessary. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:39 PM, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: communist parties ? please advise why people at struggle in Chengara need a communist party. does anybody need to symbolize cpim as communist party? what does make a communist party really a communist party? what are the signs of 'purity'? is there any single communist party which doesnt say that they are the 'original'? why do we need to run after each communist party to test whether it is real or no? what kind of great revolution u r planning to do and in which century? Ahmed On 4/23/08, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friends, It is a usual tactics of rightist forces and rightist medias by symbolising CPI(M) as a real communist party, exposing that party and generalising that communist parties are like this. It is unfortunate that even many progressive thinking people are also repeating the same blah blahs. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:03 AM, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oho...now it s clear comrade it s to save the world from US imperialism that those bloody CPM cadres raped and killed Dalits in Nandigram .. and damn those women cadres of CPM, who asked what was that dalit woman doing in the field at 4am (where else will she shit? and what were comrades doing in the field? reading communist manifesto?!!) what a great revolutionary act comrades!! On 4/22/08, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: feel sorry for him... but good that he broke his silence at least in chintha. it was a bit suspensful for me when i see many responses to him and some even requested for his response on Chengara and some threatened with spm mails. but he just repeated what pinarayi n all said proving that all of them are really 'red'. as k.k.koch rightly said, communism is as dangerous as fascism to the indigenous people around the world. Ahmed On 4/22/08
[GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: [GreenYouth] Re: GPramachandran against Grand Anti Communist Alliance!!
was wondering why stalin i believe he was a fascist On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok. I believe in scientic knowledge. So I am watching your wordings too. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:37 PM, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: innocent thoughtsa complete knowledge will lead to the absolute truth, a teacher can enlighten you for better unerstanding of pure and flawless marximbut potential to take shape of fascism at any time. truth is not somewher existing waiting for us to unfold. gone are the days of enlightenment 'truth' is created and constructed through our own discourses...discourses dictate our truths..that's why i became anti-communist and appunni became pure communist (with a bit less knowledge) On 4/23/08, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marx , Mao are just like Bobby and Appunni. Ask yourself whether god. Universal truth? what is it? I said that I am not expert in this field. Because, I am telling all these things with partial knowledge, with errors. So I am not a teacher in this field. As far as I know, communist history is full of rights and wrongs. So Marx may fail to analyse caste equation. Lenin may fail to analyise about democratic content of bolshevik party. Stalin may fail in establishing international communist front. Mao may fail in upkeeping fraternity between India and China. Study from the faults and uphold the rights is to be part of communists. cheers appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Marx God? Did he percieve the caste equations in Colonial South Asia? His observations on that (what I have read seems ignorant). Then Mao - is there a universal truth in analysing hegemony? I am someone seeking questions On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dear bobby, You are asking a simple question. My simple answer: I am not an expert in this subject. If you are interested, I will suggest names of few books. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: simple question what is communism would like to be educated on that On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dear friend, You are asking so many questions which both you and me can not answer. More over, you are not expecting a reply as those questions are reserved with your answers. Let me repeat. CPI(M) does not represent a communist party. Every rightist forces know this well. So they are utilising this to attack communist parties. Chengara struggle may be conducted with or without the leadership of a communist party. On the other hand, a communist party shall uphold the slogan ' land for tiller' and their new democratic revolutionary movements shall incorporate that slogan as its main axis. This should be the strategy of a communist party as the objective condtions in India like countries are accordingly. Therefore, a communist party should support all land struggles like 'Chengara' and should lead it if necessary. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:39 PM, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: communist parties ? please advise why people at struggle in Chengara need a communist party. does anybody need to symbolize cpim as communist party? what does make a communist party really a communist party? what are the signs of 'purity'? is there any single communist party which doesnt say that they are the 'original'? why do we need to run after each communist party to test whether it is real or no? what kind of great revolution u r planning to do and in which century? Ahmed On 4/23/08, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friends, It is a usual tactics of rightist forces and rightist medias by symbolising CPI(M) as a real communist party, exposing that party and generalising that communist parties are like this. It is unfortunate that even many progressive thinking people are also repeating the same blah blahs. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:03 AM, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oho...now it s clear comrade it s to save the world from US imperialism that those bloody CPM cadres
[GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: [GreenYouth] GPramachandran against Grand Anti Communist Alliance!!
still not answered why Stalin on lenin would be an authority for someone like me who wants to learn communism - since I have a CIA induced prejudice that Stalin is a fascist On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just said name of one book. I did not say names of other books. That does not mean there are no other books! cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why not John Reed or Trotsky or Arthur Koestler? On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First of all you read Stalin's ' foundation of Leninism'. Hope this will give some insight. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:31 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still have the basic question Whats Communism? Please provide me a bibliography On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear ahmed, You said: Patronise people struggles for party aspirations. Yes. You are right. Those who are worried in this are only rightist forces whatever be their labels. You may feel 'communism' or 'marxism' or 'leninism' are cliche. No problem. Because, you are not communist. But it is basic foundations of a communist party. When I say cpim is not a communist party, it does not mean that its cadres are not communist aspirants. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:17 PM, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it is not based on any kind of 'hatred' peeople here defend the attack of the cpim's insult and atrocities on people's struggles. party's brutal ground level voilence on people is shamefully justified by its red intellectuals. telling them that they are not real communist is the right response? nobody here seems to be having any kind of 'apartheid' to the communists. but it seems to be high time to realize that the cliches like new democratic revolutions, incorporation to the axis for a grand revolution, objectivve conditions and all have hitherto been used to patronize the people struggles for party (excuse me, but all communist parties) aspirations. Ahmed On 4/23/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: simple question what is communism would like to be educated on that On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dear friend, You are asking so many questions which both you and me can not answer. More over, you are not expecting a reply as those questions are reserved with your answers. Let me repeat. CPI(M) does not represent a communist party. Every rightist forces know this well. So they are utilising this to attack communist parties. Chengara struggle may be conducted with or without the leadership of a communist party. On the other hand, a communist party shall uphold the slogan ' land for tiller' and their new democratic revolutionary movements shall incorporate that slogan as its main axis. This should be the strategy of a communist party as the objective condtions in India like countries are accordingly. Therefore, a communist party should support all land struggles like 'Chengara' and should lead it if necessary. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:39 PM, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: communist parties ? please advise why people at struggle in Chengara need a communist party. does anybody need to symbolize cpim as communist party? what does make a communist party really a communist party? what are the signs of 'purity'? is there any single communist party which doesnt say that they are the 'original'? why do we need to run after each communist party to test whether it is real or no? what kind of great revolution u r planning to do and in which century? Ahmed On 4/23/08, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friends, It is a usual tactics of rightist forces and rightist medias by symbolising CPI(M) as a real communist party, exposing that party and generalising that communist parties are like this. It is unfortunate that even many progressive thinking
[GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: [GreenYouth] Re: GPramachandran against Grand Anti Communist Alliance!!
I am fairly unread - illiterate , but why should I read Stalin? I strongly am prejudiced that he was a fascixst dictator On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First of all , you just collect that book and try to read. I cheers appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:49 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: was wondering why stalin i believe he was a fascist On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok. I believe in scientic knowledge. So I am watching your wordings too. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:37 PM, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: innocent thoughtsa complete knowledge will lead to the absolute truth, a teacher can enlighten you for better unerstanding of pure and flawless marximbut potential to take shape of fascism at any time. truth is not somewher existing waiting for us to unfold. gone are the days of enlightenment 'truth' is created and constructed through our own discourses...discourses dictate our truths..that's why i became anti-communist and appunni became pure communist (with a bit less knowledge) On 4/23/08, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marx , Mao are just like Bobby and Appunni. Ask yourself whether god. Universal truth? what is it? I said that I am not expert in this field. Because, I am telling all these things with partial knowledge, with errors. So I am not a teacher in this field. As far as I know, communist history is full of rights and wrongs. So Marx may fail to analyse caste equation. Lenin may fail to analyise about democratic content of bolshevik party. Stalin may fail in establishing international communist front. Mao may fail in upkeeping fraternity between India and China. Study from the faults and uphold the rights is to be part of communists. cheers appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Marx God? Did he percieve the caste equations in Colonial South Asia? His observations on that (what I have read seems ignorant). Then Mao - is there a universal truth in analysing hegemony? I am someone seeking questions On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dear bobby, You are asking a simple question. My simple answer: I am not an expert in this subject. If you are interested, I will suggest names of few books. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: simple question what is communism would like to be educated on that On 23/04/2008, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dear friend, You are asking so many questions which both you and me can not answer. More over, you are not expecting a reply as those questions are reserved with your answers. Let me repeat. CPI(M) does not represent a communist party. Every rightist forces know this well. So they are utilising this to attack communist parties. Chengara struggle may be conducted with or without the leadership of a communist party. On the other hand, a communist party shall uphold the slogan ' land for tiller' and their new democratic revolutionary movements shall incorporate that slogan as its main axis. This should be the strategy of a communist party as the objective condtions in India like countries are accordingly. Therefore, a communist party should support all land struggles like 'Chengara' and should lead it if necessary. cheers, appunni On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:39 PM, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: communist parties ? please advise why people at struggle in Chengara need a communist party. does anybody need to symbolize cpim as communist party? what does make a communist party really a communist party? what are the signs of 'purity'? is there any single communist party which doesnt say that they are the 'original'? why do we need to run after each communist party to test whether it is real or no? what kind of great revolution u r planning to do and in which century? Ahmed On 4/23/08, JAYARAJAN. C.N. [EMAIL PROTECTED
[GreenYouth] Re: Movement and NGOs
. The urge to innovate and to improve one's condition is ingrained in human nature. Any system that seeks to ignore - or worse still, suppress - such basic instincts, from prohibition to Communism, will only lead to disaster, I am afraid. Best regards, Murali NB: I was wondering when the failure of NREGS, a standard socialist welfare scheme, would be put down to neo-liberalism. Seems I don't have to wait any longer, the CPI(ML) guys have already fulfilled that 'dream' :) On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One more factual error in your mail, Swami Aiyar is a economics journalist and not an economist - consulting editor to Economic times and a widely read column - this does not make a claim for empirical research, but for opinion. A very typical Indian dominant caste arrogance that celebrates APJ Abdul Kalam, who has not written one scientific paper in his life as a scientist. I hold the opinion and I am educated and therefore it ought to be true kind of attitude. In other words, you better agree with my opinion- because of who Iam. The same attitude that in some mails on the Chengara issue has been accused of in the CPIM circles -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: GPramachandran against Grand Anti Communist Alliance!!
Are you suggesting that people should be tried for believing in communism or
trying to practice it? Sounds as dangerous as McCarthyism, witch-hunting and
the Crusades to me. Communists have no claim over political correctness as
no one else has.
On 28/04/2008, Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Though not a direct answer to the question, the following comment from
Theodore Dalrymple on cultural Marxism, a.k.a Political Correctness is
illuminating:
*Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of
communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist
propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate;
and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people
are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies,
or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose
once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to
co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's
standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of
emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political
correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.*
Marxism as an economic alternative may have suffered a body blow after the
fall of the Soviet Union, but Cultural Marxism thrives in academia and the
intelligentsia. This is not an accident or a coincidence - it is the result
of willful neglect by the West - after all, there were no Nuremberg style
trials of Communist offenders after the fall of the Berlin Wall. In many
countries, the communists just had to recolor their flag. Vladimir Bukowsky,
the Soviet dissident who suffered torture during the Cold War has this to
say:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID={B3EBE5BF-CD12-4168-878D-F705E8C3BB4F}http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID=%7BB3EBE5BF-CD12-4168-878D-F705E8C3BB4F%7D
Best regards,
Murali.
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:30 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
simple question
what is communism
would like to be educated on that
---
Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't
want to hear.
--
Bobby Kunhu
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
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[GreenYouth] Invite for the workshop on Socio-Legal Scholarship on University Campuses
Schools: Building a Network across India * * *Programme* Date: 12th May 2008 Place: National Law School of India University, Bangalore 9.30 AM – 10.00 AM Introductions 10.00 AM – 11.00 AM Session 1: Understanding 'Socio-Legal' 11.00 AM – 12.00 PM Student inputs / Discussions 12.00 AM – 1.00 PM Lunch 1.00 PM – 2.00 PM Session 2: Building a Culture of Socio-Legal enquiry among Law Students 2.00 PM – 3.00 PM Session 3: The Place of the Law and Society Committee and Equivalents in Law Schools 3.00 PM – 3.30 PM Concluding Comments -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Sainath's Lecture - Abridged version
*MEDIA Two things have died in the media-outrage and compassion Photo: Sanjay Ahlawat By P. Sainath *We are in the middle of the greatest agrarian crisis seen in this country since the Green Revolution. Millions have left their villages for other villages, towns and cities in search of jobs which are not there. Eighty lakh people quit farming between 1991 and 2001. Did the Indian media do this story? Here are the basic assertions I make in connection with the media and the agrarian crisis. One, the fundamental feature of the media of our times is the growing disconnect between the mass media and the mass reality. Two, there is a structural shutout of the poor in the media. Three, there is a corporate hijack of media agendas. Four, of the so-called four estates of democracy, media is the most exclusive and the most elitist. The moral universe of the media has shifted. Two things have died-outrage and compassion. You have a lot of drawing-room outrage, but not over issues that moved earlier generations of journalists. The structural shutout of the poor is evident in the way beats are organised in newspapers. You have fashion, design and glamour correspondents. In a country with the largest number of rural poor, you do not have one full-time correspondent on the beat of rural or urban poverty. In a country whose unemployment is simply stunning, the labour correspondent is extinct. 2006 was the worst year of farmer suicides. How many national media journalists were covering the agrarian crisis in Vidarbha? There were six. But there were 512 journalists covering the Lakme Fashion Week in Mumbai. What were the girls displaying at the Fashion Week? Cotton garments. One hour's flight away from Mumbai, the men and women who grew that cotton were committing suicide at the rate of six a day. Wasn't that a story? There is journalism and there is stenography; 80 per cent of journalism you are reading or viewing today is stenography. Everyone knows there is a crisis of credit. Thanks to the loan waiver. How many of your newspapers or channels have told you that the guys who are claiming that they have expanded credit have closed down 4,750 bank branches in the last 15 years? The Census and the National Sample Survey narrow down migration to mean people leaving the villages for the city. Since 1990s, migrations are more complex. There is rural-to-rural, rural-to-metro migration, rural-to-semi-urban, urban-to-urban and finally urban-to-rural migration. Yes, urban-to-rural migration is there because wages have collapsed in the countryside and small businesses are moving there to utilise cheap labour. In Gondia, Maharashtra, every morning hundreds of urban women journey into rural Vidarbha for work. There is the economic survey put by the finance minister in Parliament every Budget session. What has stopped the media from picking up the story it tells you? Per capita availability of foodgrain has fallen from 510gm a day in 1991 to 422gm in 2005-a fall of 88gm for one billion people for 365 days a year! That means your average family is consuming 100kg less of foodgrain than it consumed a decade ago. Where is your outrage? You have a price rise. There is a differential impact of this on different classes of society. But look at some of the stories that are coming-that in a middle class family, the son cannot take cricket coaching because of the price rise! Where we should have told stories, we sold products. Where we needed scepticism, we exercised sycophancy. Where we needed journalism at its best, we produced stenography at its worst. We continued to cordon the elite and turn our backs on millions experiencing despair. We turned the great principle of journalism upside down which was to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. *The article is an abridged version of the Rajendra Mathur Memorial Lecture-2008 on Media and the Agrarian Crisis, organised by the Editors Guild of India.* ** http://week.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/MMOnline.dll/portal/ep/theWeekContent.do?sectionName=Current+EventscontentId=3897309programId=1073754900pageTypeId=1073754893contentType=EDITORIALBV_ID =@@@ On 28/04/2008, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Murali To claim Swami Aiyar's credentials based on his Oxonian MA smacks of colonial hangover and academic snobbery. My comparison with Sainath is a simple one - Sainath has travelled extensively in the hinterland and his reportage is based on findings on the field both of them being journalists, while Aiyars is based on selective hearsay sitting in his second floor office on 7, Bahadur Shah Zafar Marg - there definitely is a huge gap in terms of the kind of empiricism they bring on board. I would like to know the empirical data that you claim that shows the linkage between poverty reduction and neo-liberal reforms. You are making what is known as a circular argument in Logic. If bad governance is the problem (thats is a separate debate), then, why blame
[GreenYouth] Re: Press Statement by Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons
There have been some members here who have shown tendencies towards grand revolutions But that apart, when it comes to issues of caste - let me draw a parallel to feminism - silence most often regardless of the mens rea needs to be constructed as violence for no other reason, but how embedded it is within us. I am tempted to point out the anthropologist, Saul Zuratas in Mario Vargas Llosa's *Storyteller, *his attitudes and assumptions, despite which he cannot completely discard the epistemological baggage that made him commit the first act of love viz. become a story teller amongst the Machiguengas. The book beautifully explores the relationship between the global, national and tribal societies and the themes of centre and periphery. Whats interesting is that the same Llosa (once a grand admirer of Castro), became a neo-liberal candidate for presidency in 1990s (he argues his case fervently in *A fish in the water) *and now is reportedly supporting the extreme right. While it does not change the stature or skills of Llosa as a writer, but his positions on the same indegineous populations become problematic and violent by his silence, which also acts as a complete denial of these communities. (I deliberately picked this story from latin america for distance sometimes provides clarity). The same way, silence on caste by people who claim some politics can be constructed as problematic. *Caveat: *I am not suggesting that everyone should respond to all issues, nor am I suggesting that everyone who remain silent are castiest - the silence could be for multiple reasons. I am just trying to think aloud on situations where silence could be violent On 01/05/2008, Afthab Ellath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *nor did i imagine that he was referring the vacuumized representation of marginalized people in history, which is clearly undebatable.* When we talk about this exclusion, it is not total... It is selective... Gujarat riots was covered, in length... Nandigram was covered... Even human rights violation in kashmir were covered selectively... But when an issue puts the total system in danger, it is excluded There is no conspiracy .. The exclusion happens without any deliberate exercise of power... On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:19 PM, salimtk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *I was mentioning about our cold response to this report... Did we take it as a serious matter? I worry, we didn't * above line is aftab's. when he said like OUR cold response and WE didnt take it serious, i cudnt imagine that he was referring to the historians, media people, intellectuals, cultural leaders etc. nor did i imagine that he was referring the vacuumized representation of marginalized people in history, which is clearly undebatable. instead it reminded me of some who alleged the 'brahmanic' silence on the members of this group in regarding to certain 'dalit' related mails. does this group hold any compulsion of mandatory responses to all the mails forwarded here? do we need to be 'hot' all the time? r v selective in being silent and in cutting mails on certain topics only? NO. what i felt is most of the members here respond impulsively with no 'grand' revolutionary intentions. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 2:38 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Silence is definitely a democratic right, but a right that has to be exercised within the structural hegemony that constructs each one of our individual politics and places us within our respective identities (to be blunt - shows us our place as a dalit, adivasi, muslim, woman, gay, transgendered, disabled etc.), be it within media, academia, high culture or just folklore. For instance, my school history text-books or general discussions never included any account of the anti-brahmin movement or people like Jyothi Thass and this is the matriculation syllabus in a linguistically and culturally proud state like Tamil Nadu. Neither was the history of Kashmir an issue. In this regard silence becomes violence by virtue of being an act of ommission - deliberate or otherwise. In this group itself there has been outrage expressed by various members, for instance on the issue of selective silence on the part of certain members with respect to Chengara - wouldn't that silence tantamount to violence? I believe the same silence to be violence respect to caste and issues like Kashmir or North East that do not reflect too well on our national or patriotic ethos On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:46 PM, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: when u writehistory of a region and remain silent on many aspects- movemnts, historical figures, culture of particular socail grp.-- and still want to escape quoting democratic right to be silent, such politcal
[GreenYouth] Re: GPramachandran against Grand Anti Communist Alliance!!
The concise oxford dictionary of english etymology defines sahib as title used by natives of India in addressing an Englishman or European or Urdu use of Arab. *ṣāḥ ib* companion, friend, lord, master. On 03/05/2008, Afthab Ellath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I couldnt understand why I am a Sahib... It is a subject of another discussion... I am not an apologist for communist crimes... But you become the apologist for crimes of the western capitalism and colonialism and neo-colonialism when you write the following... *it is the result of willful neglect by the West - after all, there were no Nuremberg style trials of Communist offenders after the fall of the Berlin Wall * My argument was who should try the comminists for their atrocities? Can Saddam be tried by US for his crimes ? On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 11:09 PM, Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Afthab Sahib, Forget for the moment that the Communist offenders make the Westerners look like Gandhis. Why should the West's crime be a shield for Communist atrocities? Best regards, Murali. On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Afthab Ellath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought I was listening to Rumsfeld, Cheney or any of those neo-con thugs at White house... Who should conduct the Nuremberg style trials for those millions of human catastrophes like Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Iraq, Latin Americans etc. etc that your holy west is responsible for? -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Press Statement by Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons
we do not need to invoke the spirit of stalin or hitler, if one claims any part in the indian social or political system, claims education (including computer literacy), comments on what is good or bad for Indian economy and governance and does not know about kashmir or the deeply embedded caste system, which defines everyday south asian life, then the person is an islamaphobe and castiest. Only the elite, who dont face structural discrimination based on identity would be able to declare the irrelevance of identity *caveat: *I used claims to education deliberately - for the regular voting non-cyber trotting indian is definitely aware that caste is a defining factor of this country's social, economic and political fabric (in fact, from the treatment meted out to muslims, i would hypothese that islam is often seen and treated as an undesirable caste group in India - the ghettoisation is a classic example - thoug i it might not be that simple, because often markers are more visible in crreating the other of the muslim) On 03/05/2008, Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My silence on the issue of muslims shows/expose my ideological/political inclinations In Communist societies, silence was hardly enough. In fact, the silent ones were more suspect than the vocal dissidents. Today, if you do not have an opinion on Kashmir (never mind whether you actually know something about it or not) you are an 'Islamophobe'. If you don't talk about caste violence, you are yourself part of that violence. Next release: thought policing. Call the psychics - we need to contact Stalin's spirit for guidance. Best regards, Murali On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 10:48 AM, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Movement and NGOs
socialist than that :) Best regards, Murali. On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Press Statement by Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons
There is absolutely no exhortation on anyone to comment on anything. All that I personally implied is that only people who are on the giving end of the hegemonic spectrum usually afford silences. There are many who claim based on their experience (including the Govt of India at WCAR in Durban and afterwards too), that India pro-actively indulges in dalits and muslims (the anti-reservation scenes). These so-called indulgences at times though are well-intentioned are evidence of the structural violencee, (e.g- your addressing Afthab as Sahib based on a presumption because his name is Afthab). There are others who claim that caste, communal, gender or other hegemonies do not exist in their lives. Then there are others who are silent There is a huge difference between violence perpetrated within a power matrix by people at different ends of the matrix - this is why for instance in criminal jurisprudence constitutional sagfeguards are given to the accused, however horrendous the society may percieve the crime to be - because of the power differential between an individual and the state. In that vein, there is a difference between RSS exhortation on Muslims to prove their patriotism and this thread on silences I think its time for me to remain silent now and let others comment Best On 03/05/2008, Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't say that I don't know or have no comments, if that is what you imply, but take any issue, there are sufficient number of 'well educated', 'computer literate' people who do not know a thing about it. This is from personal experience. I don't find any difference between 'you have to comment, else you are an Islamophobe' and the RSS's exhortation to Muslims that they need to 'prove their patriotism', or else they are traitors. Best regards, Murali On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 2:10 AM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we do not need to invoke the spirit of stalin or hitler, if one claims any part in the indian -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Movement and NGOs
I break my promised silence to ask only one question - who does not work within ideological frameworks? S A Aiyyar, Bobby Kunhu or Murali Warrier. Sanath stands out only beacuse he is in the field when writing his journalistic pieces as against Mr Aiyyar. I would rather let others respond rather than this becoming a conversation between the both of us. p.s. when i do find the time, i would respond personally Best On 04/05/2008, Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You dont need to read the NSS or Economic Survey of India or the annual UNDP Human development report, just read any newspaper regularly and you find stories of food crisis across the world post neo-liberalism. It hs become acute especially now.. Again, where is the causality? Food crises and famines are nothing new in the world, has happened long before neo-liberalism, and will happen now and in the future. The current food crisis in part owes to huge government subsidies for biofuels, which needless to say, is against the spirit of a free market. It is market manipulation by government, simple. The agricultural crisis in a large measure is due to the government's dogged refusal to allow market forces to play in the sector. Government intervention, good intentioned, no doubt, often makes things worse: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/S_A_Aiyar_Govt_panic_stokes_inflation/articleshow/2929336.cms Since you seem to advocate the free market, I am only asking you to educate me on how and where it has worked and by your own argument, the onus is on you. Look at any developed country - every one of them has adopted some form of free market economy - may not be perfect, but economic freedom to a large extent is a characteristic of them. Or look at countries that had everything common, except the economic model - East and West Germany, North and South Korea - and see what widely differing fates they had. By the way, there are different schools of socialism and I wanted to know which school you were referring to as standard? Lemme make it clear - by 'standard' I meant something common to all schools. I guess economic redistribution is part of every school of socialism. About Sainath - the main problem I find with him is that he tends to frame issue is in an ideological usual suspects vs usual victims terms, in spite of any plausible links of causality. Here is a blogger's critique of Sainath: http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2006/09/05/heart-alone-is-insufficient/ Best regards, Murali On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 3:29 AM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Afthabs post and Sainaths interview I posted here sufficiently counters your arguments - they do resound arguments put forward by the Chicago school and unfortunately unlike Friedman's presumptions the world is not flat - and I for one - do not want to be part of a process that exclude a vast majority of the population. -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: Request for help from my (and maybe our) friend Ayumi Temlock
-- Forwarded message -- From: Richard Duffee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 11 May 2008 03:45 Subject: Request for help from my (and maybe our) friend Ayumi Temlock To: Hi, Ayumi Temlock asked me to forward this to people I know whom I think might take an interest. So here it is. Richard Duffee -- Forwarded message -- From: 歩美 Temlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, May 10, 2008 at 3:05 PM Subject: Please help! To: Bernard R Traphan [EMAIL PROTECTED], Hanser Ted [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Barbara Spitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi friends, My friend, Paul Wong, is struggling in Japan to reunite with his only child. Please read the following article and spread the words! http://becauseimright-nocomme1.blogspot.com/2008/05/kidnapped-by-japan-how-mothers-dying.html Thank you, Ayumi -- GANBARE! NIPPON! Win your ticket to Olympic Games 2008. http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/ganbare-nippon/ -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: T20
watching T20 regardless of his position is also sucked into this efficiency logic. 9. What is corporate efficiency? – It works on a simple principle of efficient use of time and resource: Maximization of wealth. Hence public investments are privatized for efficient use, public spaces are converted to privatized park areas.. so on and so forth. SEZ, hire fire, meritocracy are all founded on this rationale. 10. A leisurely activity of sporting or gaming now is reduced in terms of time share not with respect to a specific requirement of the game but to 'media time'. Experimentation and possibilities available to each individual in the game is proportional to time taken for mastering. But then, a reduced time-limit shall impinge negatively on experimenality of the player. When efficiency is the sole factor, the players require only cricketing skills and the mastery is not expected from them. Maximizing physical effort will wear out the player easily. I doubt whether in future we will be having players who play for a long-period. (The hike in remuneration perhaps is linked to this). 11. We are not merely watching Cricket but enjoying it. Long duree activities are gradually loosing stake in corporate governed conditions. (It can be argued that Corporate investments are done on long-term basis. But then unlike the public investments, the corporate would clearly fix up plan for short-term mid-term realizations). Enjoyment becomes an instantaneous activity. Kundera (I don't rememeber which novel) speaks about different practices of sex. One which take entire day night (preplay, foul play, extended game etc), another one which is limited in time but mutually cohesive one which is very short in duration done with sheer sense of immediacy in the lavatory of the train while traveling. It perhaps (!) is like maximizing time and space, mutuality is of little concern.. of course, good on occasions!!! 12. T20 may homogenize varieties of practices and be the hegemonic one at a multi-regional or multi-national level. Cricket is one of the most flexible forms of sports. This includes the materials that you use in cricket to the space used for cricket. *Churutikutiy*a paper can become a ball and book can transform to bat, class room stretches itself to a cricket ground. These practices will continue. Those who play cricket may understand this. 13. Considering these practices there is nothing new in T20. But what is new in T20 is the embedding of efficiency logic into the game. 13. T20 also concerns with the 'nationalism regionalism in Cricket. We all know that the players from different cricketing nations used to play in English county well before the 'invention' of T20. Since I have not watched the English county, I don't know what response it evoked from the crowd when Viv Richards pulled a six out of Amburey for Yorkshire.……….. damodar prasad -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Dealing With Discrimination
, the Menon report recommends that the initial focus should only be on the employment and education sectors, whether public or private (paragraph 4.7). While this argument has some currency and the proposed Equal Opportunity Commission should not be overwhelmed with more work than it can handle, there is a strong case for including housing in the priority sectors. Housing discrimination, especially against Muslims and certain castes, is rampant, especially in some western states. Housing decisions are made very few times in an individual's lifetime and the impact is felt for a long period of time. From the societal point of view, housing discrimination creates ghettos where people only interact with their own kind. This is certainly bad news for social inclusion. Now, to the enforcement model envisaged in the Bill. The proposed Equal Opportunity Commission's main role will be to research and analyse the concept of discrimination, to recommend policy, lobby and advocate reform and to monitor concerns related to equality. It has some limited powers of direct enforcement as well, but the report is clear that grievance redressal shall not be the primary function of the commission (paragraphs 5.2 and 5.7). An enforcement model that does not try to deal with every case of enforcement but rather plans to create sporadic and spectacular examples of enforcement with the hope that the effects will trickle down is not a bad model to start with. This is India's first comprehensive experiment with anti-discrimination. It is a good beginning given the peculiarities of the country, especially when it comes to enforcement. The important thing is to recognise it only as a beginning where lessons should be learnt and improvements made at a later date. However, one important flaw in the Bill is that it gives very little agency to members of the deprived groups themselves. At the most, they can complain (as a group) to the proposed commission. We have seen that except for the constitutional prohibition on discrimination by the state, all other models in India suffer from this flaw. A good remedy will be to give a limited right to information to citizens against private employers, educational institutions and housing societies only on matters related to their discriminatory policies. This decentralised method of information gathering should complement the task of the commission while ensuring that those discriminated against at least have proper information before they raise their voice. But, most important, if the experience of the Right to Information Act, 2005, is anything to go by, very often a mere demand of information is sufficient to remedy the problem at hand. Many private bodies will be spurred into amending their discriminatory policies by such demands. The Bill is on the whole a good idea whose time has definitely come. Four minor changes may be considered: (i) including the phrase fundamental choice alongside beyond their control as autonomy-impinging reasons in clause 2(g); (ii) expanding the list of prohibited grounds in clause 2(k) to include analogous grounds such as sexual orientation, marital status, food preference, age, dress preference, gender identity, pregnancy(iii) expressly including the housing sector in clause 22(i); and (iv) providing a limited right to all citizens to demand discrimination-related information from public and private bodies. Tarunabh Khaitan researches on anti-discrimination law at the University of Oxford -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: After terrorists, their apologists strike (was: Jaipur Blasts Statement)
Is it your contention that because you are a libertarian- whatever that
might mean to you, that your views are objective -
just to remind you that despite your confessed ignorance of constitution,
you still use it to counter Puniyani et al
if the consequences of BJP kind of propaganda is denial of basic fundamental
human rights to any community, I'd rather have clouded judgements about such
an institution and go by Puniyani et al's arguments
btw - you are yet to post a single coherent argument on why Puniyani et al
are wrong and you are right in your reading of aparticular community
On 20/05/2008, Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Bobby,
Thanks for the comments on the Constitution. Let me confess that not
being a lawyer or not having studied law even as a hobby, my knowledge in
these matters are very inferior.
I being a libertarian, believe in the dictum that consequences matter
more than intentions. Puniyani et al., may have good intentions. But don't
forget that Communism too had good, in fact noble intentions.
The problem I find with the concerned citizens' message is that, as
far as I can see, they have allowed their hatred for Hindutva to cloud their
judgment. As evidenced by the way Puniyani construed the plain fact
statement that 'Islamic jihadis are more likely to be found among Muslims'
as targeting the Muslim community itself ('all Muslims are terrorists'). And
look at the political posturing by insinuating that the BJP may be involved.
This is especially unfortunate after they make this statement in the
beginning: 'The unfortunate part is that prevention of these acts has been
politicized by some political parties.' Then they go on to politicize the
whole thing. Posting the message in the IHRO forum has considerably eroded
their credibility in my eyes, further.
Let me make it clear that I don't hold any brief for the BJP, as you
could see. The crucial difference between me and a lot of people here is
that I do not allow my judgment to be clouded by my antipathy for the
Hindutva party. If you have already concluded that the BJP is the only
problem facing this country, then none of these arguments are going to have
any effect.
Best regards,
Murali
On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 8:20 AM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Dear Murali
I am very happy about your belief in constitutional methods. But FYI, our
the Constitution is almost a replica of the 1935 Govt of India Act, that
most of the people demanding the ouster of the British except for the
crucial Fundamental Rights and DPSP chapters. As a lawyer, as far as I know,
there is no mention in the Fundamental Rights Chapter that terrorist would
not have benefits of the rights guaranteed under that chapter, or Muslims
are all to be branded terrorists
All that Puniyani and Engineer are asking for post-Jaipur blasts is that
the actions of the powers that be - be in consonance with this crucial
chapter of the Constitution
At the risk of being brash, I do not think you really believe in the
Constitution if you are playing up to the BJP kind of gallery (which has
also defamed Ambedkar ref: *Worshipping False Gods *by Arun Shourie).
Best
--
---
Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't
want to hear.
--
Bobby Kunhu
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
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[GreenYouth] Fwd: [IHRO] Indian Muslims, Terrorism and Sangh Parivar By Saeed Hameed - Rashtriya Sahara, Urdu Daily, Mumbai
/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/planforabalancedlife between nutrition, activity well-being. . __,_._,___ -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] A tribute to Vijay Tendulkar
The day before was a sad day in the history of Indian Theatre and literature. Somewhere, in the myriad of Karnataka elections, food crisis, the colossal tragedies in China and Burma, the demise of the veteran playwrite, Vijay Tendulkar did not find much print space. This does not make the loss any lesser. Well, he has been keeping fairly unwell in body and spirit, particularly after the untimely demise of his daughter and actor, the one who popularised television serials as Rajini before the invasion of private channels. Well, I do not intend to go into a diatribe on his literary career. I am sure that in the coming days, there will be people with more expertise who would be doing that. And for basic information on that one can always visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vijay_Tendulkar I'd rather want to present his activist side, whicjh is unfairly not highlighted much and my brief interaction with the man. Apart from being a crusader against death penalty, he was a person deeply involved with questions of power, hegemony and poverty. I met him during my stint in National Centre for Advocacy Studies. He was the President of the Board at that time. My second interaction with him was as the National Coordinator of the Social Watch Coalition. The two distinguished veterans who were witnesses to the birth of the first Citizens Report of Governance and Development were him and Rajni Kothari. We invited him for the launch at the last minute on the suggestion of John Samuel (Convenor of Social Watch), and despite his ill-health, he not only made it to Delhi for the launch, but also agreed to accompany us to the then President of India, A P J Abdul Kalam to present a copy to him. During our one odd hour meeting with the Hon'nle former President of India, he exercised his penchant for treating his fellow countrymen like school children with our small four member delegation as atleast three of us sat in awe (not necessarily of the President alone, but the ambience of his office as well and the amount of money spent on protocol and upkeep in such a large colonial mansion), Mr. Tendulkar alone sat unperturbed and without any arguments or statements, by his sheer body language demonstrated his intellectual superiority to Dr. Kalam, which was obvious to all of us in the room including the President's ADC.in attendance. Vijay Tendulkar, again despite his ill-health decided to join the team that brought out the Report in the celebration of the successful release of the Report and even had a drink with us to toast. The time he spent with us that late evening, he spent more time listening and if my memory serves me right, he tried to devote equal time with all present regardless of their stature and personal proximity with him. I have only one regret. The dining arrangement had me seated next to him. As he was leaving, he handed me his card and insisted that I call on him, the next time I was in Bombay. I never remembered the invitation till it is too late now and he is no more now. I am sure all who came across him in his lifetime would have fond memories of him. In solidarity -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: FW: Plz help him if U have a heart
Dear Anand Must be a problem with my computer system (in which case, apologies for my technophobia) or the way you reply, I have no clues about atleast half the conversation that has happened on this particular thread. If I understand from the moderators' invite to this group, its origtinally intendedas a mallu activist-opinion group, which tries to adhere to non-discrimination and therefore allows itself to be transparent. Many, including me have castigated the moderators for censorship at different ponts of time One is always welcome to walk out of this group without melodrama (thoug I love melodrama - and therefore I find this group exciting) - a process even a technophobe like me knows, unsubscribe I maintain Damodar -whoever -he - might - be sent an hilarious post to be discussed, while I know Anand (you) personally Just ignore IPL, if thats a subject you do not like, or any other subject that you do not like I do not know (moderators need to answer), there must be options of recieving mails in digests periodically if you are uncomfortable with this format. Finally, athiesm or anarchy or amy other ideoliogy can be really painful if one tries to push it down other peoples throat For instance Richard Dawkins' arguments in his recent book God Delusion is every bit as fundamentalist, as lets say Togadia, Bush or Laden. Let us stop Warmth p.s - for a chamge lets watch the matches, right now the fate of my favorite team led by a Dhoni is being aired On 27/05/2008, Afthab Ellath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Anand Do you expect the members of this group to be obedient to you and provide what u need and abstain from what you do not like? On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Anand.Yuva Samvad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A big hello to all let me tell you.. why you people are discussing much? I just told such things means - corporate sector , marketing, promoting products, Holly BollyboodAmitabh bachhan.. Imran Hashmi Shri Ram Hanumaan..Jokes..Funniest pics... etc. you can send ur views on.. Development studies, Social work Research, social news , Social issues, Activism,. Media Advocacy, issues of youth, Communal harmony, issues of marginalised section, Minorities, Gender and women violence. I' m an atheist and believes in anarchism. Salaam !! Anand I think it was just a joke on part of anand.. but i dont find any problem if he responds by saying that dont put such things etc... but v will contine to put! On 5/27/08, Afthab Ellath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Samvad, Please send us a do's and dont's (including 'allowed' forwards) document for this group, so that members can be cautious before forwarding or posting... On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 2:56 PM, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello samvad, Accepted. I wont.. for some it is shit.. but for some.. it would be really hurting to see mallya sending such a maill.. whatever.. i think thank you for ur 'warning.. from now on.. i will just b a ROM ( read only member).. Bocz.. things i get 2 fwd are mostly like this..pls do send to me personally things marked for this group.. I shall be grateful damodar On 5/27/08, Anand.Yuva Samvad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damodar prasad .. please don't forward these kind of emails On 5/27/08, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Priya Puthezath [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: May 27, 2008 3:09 PM Subject: FW: Plz help him if U have a heart To: damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED], Praveen Puthezhath [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- *From:* Eljan Michael Snows *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:08 PM *Subject:* Plz help him if U have a heart [image: PBrush] Hi, I am Vijay Malya. My team has lost IPL. I had invested 400 cr but now I am doomed. I don't know you but U can help me overcome my loss. I request all the techies to drink Kingfisher beer instead of tea or coffee while on work. This will not only help me overcome my loss but also increase your creativity and hence productivity. If U have heart please forward this to all your friends. Plz do not delete it. I promise u all a better team in the coming season. *Don't drink and drive, Drink and code..* Vijay Malya Gulmohar-3, E-8, Arera Colny, Bhopal (Madhya Pradesh.) -- Regards Afthab Ellath -- Youth Collective - Commutineer ANAND KUMAR Contact : 097558 14297 c/o Yuva Samvad, B-16, Minal Enclave Gulmohar-3, E-8, Arera Colny, Bhopal (Madhya Pradesh.) -- Regards Afthab Ellath -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http
[GreenYouth] Re: April 20, Ernakulam
Though I might not be able to attend the convention itself, I wish it all the best. I would request that the minutes of the proceedings be posted here if possible. Another request I have given Aryan's questions in this thread earlier is if time permits, this convention could look into questions of suicide and euthanasia vis-a-vis post-mortems and ethicality of use of dead bodies for dissection by state and private agencies. Suggesting these because they are connected questions. I did see some good lawyers in the list who might be able to articulate what I am trying to say better. S.309 of the IPC criminalises attempt to commit suicide (well because of the impossibility of criminalising suicide itself) and suicide is one of the occassions where a post-mortem has to be done to establish the cause of death. The Indian judiciary has had varied and inconsistent views on this where after declaring 309 unconstitutional (while saying in so many words that euthanasia will not be permitted under the aegis of it), a larger bench overturned the judgement reinstating the impugned section to the IPC. Once again Good luck -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: April 20, Ernakulam
post script - of course there is also the issue of foetal post-mortems that needs to be discussed carefully atleast within the ideological sphere because its hedged on one side by a woman's right to her body and abortion as a right while on the other the ever increasing PND and female foeticides on the other, while the state apparatuses make hay while the sun shines - like using this dilemna to push horrendous family planning measures or other programs to keep the TFR at a non-critisable levels On 28/05/2008, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Though I might not be able to attend the convention itself, I wish it all the best. I would request that the minutes of the proceedings be posted here if possible. Another request I have given Aryan's questions in this thread earlier is if time permits, this convention could look into questions of suicide and euthanasia vis-a-vis post-mortems and ethicality of use of dead bodies for dissection by state and private agencies. Suggesting these because they are connected questions. I did see some good lawyers in the list who might be able to articulate what I am trying to say better. S.309 of the IPC criminalises attempt to commit suicide (well because of the impossibility of criminalising suicide itself) and suicide is one of the occassions where a post-mortem has to be done to establish the cause of death. The Indian judiciary has had varied and inconsistent views on this where after declaring 309 unconstitutional (while saying in so many words that euthanasia will not be permitted under the aegis of it), a larger bench overturned the judgement reinstating the impugned section to the IPC. Once again Good luck -- Bobby Kunhu -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Secularism on the Dock - What the Karnataka election results mean
Dear friends (particularly those that argued vehemently about BJP's fate before the elections) I think its time for stock taking, why I wrote this piece. I hope atleast some form of debate evolves around this. Edwin's reply to my post on Hogenakkal seems to be coming true. The question is not the simplicity of the narrative, the question is how to tackle the deeper and farther reaches of fascist forces and each one of us needs to take responsibility on this count Of course opinions and criticisms are welcome as always Warm regards * * *Secularism on the Dock* *Bobby Kunhu**·* #11a2de9e7e54075a_11a2de5e7a020aa5__edn1** * * *First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—* *because I was not a communist;* *Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—* *because I was not a socialist;* *Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—* *because I was not a trade unionist;* *Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—* *because I was not a Jew;* *Then they came for me—* * and there was no one left to speak out for me.* Martin Niemoeller As the results of the Karnataka elections started pouring in, my anger boiled over (while my pride in my own psephological skills brimmed over) – with myself and people like me and reminded me of the clichéd adage that *History repeats itself *– that the great economically up surging Indian middle class that represents the shining India seem to forget quiet often. No self respecting observer can deny that the BJP is the political front of RSS – a fascist self-serving organization that tends to promote divisive politics based on religious identity. But no, this large population finds it convenient to ignore and deny this fact like it is convenient to ignore and deny that they form only a small minority in the humungous demographic nation that India is. Let me start with the caveat, that this is a list of accusations broadly against the shining India, and specifically against commercial establishments, political formations and civil society formations – essentially people like us. Well, the truth cannot be denied that the legitimate growth of the political fronts of the RSS, both in its earlier avatar as Jan Sangh and the current avatar as BJP, was facilitated throughout the last four decades, starting from the emergency, by today's self professed secularists – and Karnataka – as one of the most important stages of the anti-emergency movement in South India – perhaps is the logical culmination for a new era of this dangerous phenomenon. Let me paraphrase this with some support from the historian Bipan Chandra's candid and controversial analysis in his book *In the name of Democracy – JP Movement and the Emergency. *JP's personal animosity towards Indira and his eagerness to topple her at any cost, gave birth to a number of future political leaders for India touting the JP brand of socialism – whatever that might be. But the single entity that benefited most out of that experiment and still has JP on its pantheon of co-opted heroes is the then Jan Sangh, now BJP. The first non-congress Indian government thereafter, headed by Morarji Desai had Jan Sangh ministers including Vajpayee. This ministry was also supported by the Communist Party of India (Marxist). Since then, BJP has claimed legacy in terms of its adherence to democratic norms both to its opposition to the emergency and as heirs to the JP movement and that makes a load of difference in a country like ours that thrives on iconoclasm. If you chose to disbelieve Bipan Chandra or me, please ask the likes of George Fernandes or Nitish Kumar or Mulayam Singh or even Laloo Prasad. Since then, the next couple of decades were devoted to a myopic political project of dislodging the Congress, regardless of the costs involved. The mainstream left is as complicit and guilty in this project as anyone else in this drama – and the harvests from this project was reaped en masse by the BJP, while decimating the so-called alternative initially into a third force and later increasingly into political non-entities Now this is not to absolve the Congress of its crimes in facilitating the BJP's political growth. One would need to start with the variant Congress development models, but because of lack of time and space, I would start with that most foolhardy action in 1986 when there were Congress governments in the Centre headed by Rajiv Gandhi and UP headed by N. D. Tiwari, when they deposed before the court in a dramatically and insidiously short trial for the Indian Judicial system (12 days), that unlocking of the gates of Babri Masjid could not result in a law and order situation. This gave the necessary fillip for the Hindutva family to set out on its historical journey to legitimate constitutional power. In 1992, the Congress government headed by Mr. Narasimha Rao, sat on its haunches silently watching as a 150,000 strong mob led by prominent BJP
[GreenYouth] Re: Secularism on the Dock - What the Karnataka election results mean
My problem is that the neo-liberal India shining guys always talk and never vote Please do read local newspapers once in a while, where you might come across Baba Budangiri in Chikmagalur or Idgah Maidan in Hubli In fact, Sushma Swaraj in an interview to NDTV proudly proclaimed the BJP victory to the Idgah Maidan The problem is precisely the fact that BJP makes inroads to futher its communal agenda through other means and the facilitation for this is done by the neo-liberals who widen the schism for the entry of BJP'shate politics 2008/5/28 Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As the commentators before rightly concluded, BJP's victory has more to do with other parties' follies than their own communal campaign. In fact, the BJP lost two important state elections immediately after the Babri demolition. In Karnataka at least, there was absolutely no communal campaign this time (at least in the heartland, may be covert and a little overt in the coastal regions). However, it is not that the BJP won because the 'neo-liberal' 'India shining' guys voted en masse. The BJP's victory cuts across caste and region. The party won close to two thirds of the SC seats and almost half of the ST ones. Their victory was comprehensive in all regions (in fact the only region they did worse than expected was in the coastal region, their original stronghold). In Bangalore, infrastructure concerns dominated, of course. The farce played out by the JD(S) in the name of keeping away communal forces first, and in bed with the communal forces later caused only revulsion. Best regards, Murali -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Gujjar fire - blood on their heads
infrastructure; all they want is guaranteed government jobs. No wonder, the Rajasthan government's gesture of a special package for Gurjjars with a substantial monetary outlay has been rejected out of hand. Why demand governance when reservations are supposed to solve every problem? It is still not too late. The political class should realize that reservations not only yield no electoral benefits but may be potentially counter-productive. It is hard to imagine how the Vasundhara Raje government would wriggle out of the current crisis in Rajasthan without alienating one or other of the major communities. Reservations can fray the delicate social fabric of India; if that is not a reason enough for the politicians and their intellectual backers then at least the instinct for self-preservation should guide them against perpetuating the culture of entitlementhttp://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/. -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Gujjar fire - blood on their heads
In your worldview, I presume that politics and identity do not exist, only money does? When the market has crashed, do you have any clue what they did with the wads of notes? Ask the Swiss bankers. If you think you can discuss reservations on a cost-benefit format without understanding caste hegemonies (which I am doubly sure of now), you are betraying your not just naivete, but arrogant naivete - let me quote Nietzsche *Arrogance on the part of the meritorious is even more offensive to us than the arrogance of those without merit: for merit itself is offensive.* Best 2008/5/28 Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Nonetheless, I do not want to engage in an argument on this since you have betrayed with this post your absolute lack of awareness (which forms part of the privileged caste zeitgeist) on caste hegemony and the history of the same in various parts of India The blog's fundamental argument was about the lack of accountability in reservation as well as the use of reservation as a political tool, as a cover for the failure of governance. I think these are very valid, one need not know about the caste hegemony and the history of the same, which you concluded rather presumptuously that I am unaware of. Yes there are some of us in this group who sincerely gasp and are terror stricken when we hear of the BJP, but that has more to do with our politics and our identities. Its the same gasp that escapes me when I see naive neo-liberal posts like this That is precisely my point - politics and identities trump everything including reality. Best regards, Murali On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Warrier -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Secularism on the Dock - What the Karnataka election results mean
Thanks Damodar for your comments. Am aware of the gaps in the analysis, but will use the time tested lame excuse of lack of time and space I agree that mine mafia played a huge role in this election cutting across party lines, but then we are talking only about certain parts of Karnataka. What actually is shocking is the conversion of Kannada chauvinism into votes by BJP if you notice the caste -wise and region wise break up of the poll percentages and the middle class apathy is shocking to say the least. (I did see Kiran Shaw's interview). Its also of interest that there has hardly been much discussion on the inroads in terms of numbers that BSP might have made in Karnataka. My only disagreement is the thesis that coalition politics = instability. This essentially comes from my own bias that coalition politics generally tend to be more democratic. Nonetheless, instability needs to be defined - would we prefer the Modi brand of stability - or can we call it stability at all? Insofar as the cost of frequent elections on the exchequer is concerned, we just need to compare it with the cost of maintaining protocol and upkeep of the numerous governors, ministers and last but not the least the Prez. Maybe charity begins at home and Dr. Singh can follow his own advice and donate a substantial portion of his huge pension from the IMF to help start a hedge fund to negotiate instability :) Best 2008/5/28 damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear Bobby, Some immediate thoughts: 1. In Karnataka, we need not fail to see the secular betrayal politics of JD(secular). When I say bertrayal, i am not pointing to the 'betrayal version of BJP. That betrayal is part of the politcal game that we are witnessing since 1977. But the betrayal on part of JD (S) to join hands with BJP to make gowda son kumara swamy, the CM of Karntaka..This has only lead ppl to lose faith in secularism as proogated by JD(S) and even BSP. 2. NDTV and IBN has extensively reported on mine mafia nexus btwn all the politcal parties. Now it is not even nexus.In fact, GowdaJD, Cong and BJP have given tickets to mine real estate mafia. (ystrday, NDTV was shwoing the visuals of the overt changes in the bodily expressions of Arun Jaitley when shaking hands with indpndnt MLA and big shot MLA of BJP.) 3. In an online interview with Kiran Shaw, CEO of BIOCON, she says that the elctoral victory of BJP is good indication that the K'taka would now have a stable govt and infrastructre prbs. of b'lore is redressed. Stabilty, Consensus has creeped into our political discourse since Narasimha Rao govt assumed power. (It seems, the CPIM-CPI centric Left is now using these terms more profusely than others.) But then needn't we also adress the issue of stabilty b'coz it is not only the corporates but the entire middle class sincerly desires soem form of stable govt. 4.Comprising with the neo-liberal poltics and adjuusting with the economic 'reforms, the Left has tied itself to onky one agenda of keping the BJP out of power. This will have detriemnatl effects not only on the polity but also on the cosntituency of the CPI/CPM left. It may be noted that when the UPA govt asumed power at centre with left supporting from outside, there was hue cry from the right of all spectrum. It was heard that an attempt was made to arrive at a conivenent comprise btwn arun jaitley, arun shourie, chidambaram jairam ramesh for prusiing the reforms agenda further. As this information reached the market, share prices regained the momentum. some immediate thoughts.. there are other issues raised in ur write-up,whcih needs a up-close look. regards, damodar On 5/28/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear friends (particularly those that argued vehemently about BJP's fate before the elections) I think its time for stock taking, why I wrote this piece. I hope atleast some form of debate evolves around this. Edwin's reply to my post on Hogenakkal seems to be coming true. The question is not the simplicity of the narrative, the question is how to tackle the deeper and farther reaches of fascist forces and each one of us needs to take responsibility on this count Of course opinions and criticisms are welcome as always Warm regards * * *Secularism on the Dock* *Bobby Kunhu**·*http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1view=pagename=gpver=sh3fib53pgpk#11a2df7318ad0330_11a2de9e7e54075a_11a2de5e7a020aa5__edn1 ** * * *First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—* *because I was not a communist;* *Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—* *because I was not a socialist;* *Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—* *because I was not a trade unionist;* *Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—* *because I was not a Jew;* *Then they came for me—* * and there was no one left to speak out for me.* Martin Niemoeller As the results
[GreenYouth] Re: Gujjar fire - blood on their heads
and Warrier did not even read Shail Mayaram's op-ed piece that was sent to him, before responmding to my mail - if there is need for any re-assurance on the geneology or the meritorious affirmations on Ms . Rajaram, one can always check online - I am sure the warrieres of the world have access to the net sad but true - he definitely should join the losing P. Chidambaram, M S Ahluwalia, M Singh, J Ramesh , A Jaitley team - a Warrier would sound good amongst that and can shift loyalties with the BJP easily. I wonder why there is no Abdul Kader, Sangma or Nagesh Madiga in that dream team - On 28/05/2008, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr Warrier Do not be selective in reading what has been sent In which case - let me use a favorite neo-lib phrase completely americanised and politically incorrect language up there - i do not engage with debates with arrogantly meritorious upper caste fools, please refrain from addressing mails to me Thanks On 28/05/2008, Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you think you can discuss reservations on a cost-benefit format without understanding caste hegemonies (which I am doubly sure of now), you are betraying your not just naivete, but arrogant naivete Whether it is appropriate to 'discuss reservations on a cost-benefit format without understanding caste hegemonies' is of course moot, but that at present, it is done in that way alone is indisputable (not by the arrogantly ignorant neo-liberals, but by those who supposedly understand the hegemonies). What explains the inclusion of Jats and Yadavs in the OBC list or the clamor for private sector reservations? Why did the Gujjars reject everything else including the economic package? If you think that 'caste hegemonies' are the dominant concern here, you are missing something. Best regards, Murali On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Kerala -The rise of saffronshirts by sumanta banerjee(Kannur violence and after)
Dear Venu, interesting take and if possible pass on this to the author, but just a few of points of dissent. Defending CPIM in the Kannur violence - may not be the best way to go about nipping the RSS at its bud. Perhaps it is the claustrophobic lack of ideological space for dissent created by the mainstream left parties that gives RSS the fodder for its cadre (Kannur has been known to be left bastion) - so instead of taking the RSS head on, it might actually be feeding RSS. Now, the actuual rise of the RSS in numerical terms in Kerala is not isolated to Kannur and is spread across Kerala. In fact, my father hails from a panchayat ward that was the first ward to see electoral victory for the BJP in Kerala and is located right at the end of south malabar in trichur district It might have been a misreading, but atleast in terms of my politics, (fanatic though it might sound), RSS family uses the constitutional means to legitimise their power en route to their ideological aspirations - which includes creating a theocratic state in India through constitutional mechanisms/amendments. Best 2008/6/3 C.K. Vishwanath [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Pilger on Obama
of jobs, proper housing and health care. They want their troops out of Iraq and the Israelis to live in peace with their Palestinian neighbours. This is a remarkable testimony, given the daily brainwashing of ordinary Americans in almost everything they watch and read. On this side of the Atlantic, a deeply cynical electorate watches British liberalism's equivalent last fling. Most of the 'philosophy' of new Labour was borrowed wholesale from the US. Bill Clinton and Tony Blair were interchangeable. Both were hostile to traditionalists in their parties who might question the corporate-speak of their class-based economic policies and their relish for colonial conquests. Now the British find themselves spectators to the rise of new Tory, distinguishable from Blair's new Labour only in the personality of its leader, a former corporate public relations man who presents himself as Tonier than thou. We all deserve better. *- John Pilger is a world-renowned journalist, author and documentary filmmaker www.johnpilger.com http:///* -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Congrats to GP Ramachandran
Dear Mr. Ramachandran Congratulations, Would it be possible for someone in this group to circulate the award winning piece? Best On 10/06/2008, Anivar Aravind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The award for best film critic 2006 has gone jointly to G P Ramachandran (Malayalam) and Rafique Baghdadi (English)while Utpal Datta (Assamese) won a Special Mention for his sensitive interpretation of films and trends in cinema. /snip http://www.saharasamay.com/samayhtml/articles.aspx?newsid=100494 Anivar -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: please approve Asma as a member!
/organization/profession: Email address: 1. Is there any course of media ethics and laws taught at universities/media institutions in your country? If yes, please mention the name of the institution. a) Yes b) No 2. What are the illegal practices rampant in your country's media organizations? You can check more than one option. a) Sensationalism b) Plagiarism c) Wrong reporting d) False news e) Defamation f)Biased news g) Non-payment to writers h) All of the above 3. Do you know of any law against plagiarism in your country? a) Yes (Please state the law) b) No 4. Have you ever been a victim of plagiarism? a) Yes b) No 5. Have you ever witnessed an act of plagiarism? a) Yes b) No 6. How can plagiarism be condemned? (you can check more than one options) a) By publication of an errata b) Sacking the person responsible of plagiarism c) Issuance of warning letter d) Penalty on the criminal e) If any other, please describe. 7. How can plagiarism be prevented? (you can check more than one options) a) Strict internal policies regarding plagiarism b) A check on plagiarism by an independent organization c) A strict law enforced against plagiarism d) By imposing a ban on the one who does it e) All of the above f)If any other apart from the above options, please state 8. Is there any organization that keeps a check on plagiarism and other crimes in your country? a) Yes b) No 9. Do you think there is a need for an organization/group/ association to keep a check on plagiarism in your country? a) Yes b) No 10. What in your opinion should the organization focus on other than plagiarism? (you can check more than one options) a) Defamation b) Non payment to writers c) False news d) If any other, please mention What issues should the organization/group/association address apart from media crimes? a) a guide for writers b) a trainer for young aspiring writers c) Work towards promoting writers and their work d) Improving journalism/media standards in Pakistan e) Work towards protecting writers' rights f)All of the above g) If any other apart from the above, please mention 11. Would you like to join a group which is working for the implementation of journalistic and media ethics? Give reasons. a) Yes b) No 12. What else, in your view, should be done about the illegal practices if present in media? Please state your opinion below. -- THANKS REGARDS http://www.freewebs.com/subidks/ Darkness is equally beautiful. Go beyond languages. Help yourself serve you better. Deny food and sex to undeserved. Listen Your Self. Discover the new Windows Vista Learn more! -- THANKS REGARDS http://www.freewebs.com/subidks/ Darkness is equally beautiful. Go beyond languages. Help yourself serve you better. Deny food and sex to undeserved. Listen Your Self. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: please approve Asma as a member!
what about the child from nowhere? I leftKerala when I was born... and where do I stand... and right now I do not where I belong On 19/06/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/19/08, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: child from Pakistan: Pakistan is great! child from India: India is great!! child from China: China is great!!! *child from communist Kerala: China is great (?!)* Dear Renju, when did u leave Kerala? Late 60s or mid 70s. Child from Kerala says (period wise) 1980- 1989 - east germany, poland and soviet union is great 1990-2000 - (post tianmen) China cuba is bountiful 2000-2006- Venezuela is as beautiful as allapuzha 2006-08- US without hyde act is the promised land We all belive that We r the end of life so We are GREAT.. great best On 6/19/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sending u a personal mail, I would like to believe I understand ascriptive politics... may be i am wrong but for me green youth seems more democratic than grey youth in terms of the discussion i like warriers challenging my notions, which are of course subjective from where i come from. and i do not like to believe i am right... in the sense of a unversal truth that defines hegemony for me the personal is always political and have suffered thanks to that and in a masochistic sense, i enjoy that Best On 19/06/2008, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CONFESSED and ALLEGATIONS just try to reverse it, then u will get the picture, dear ahmed. and no offence intndd let the piece--ful co-existnce continue in the group let new members join let those who r afraid of long mails run away let MODERATIONS continue as we all believe in law and order after all who s above the LAW !! On 6/19/08, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi bobby, nothing much...ranjuradha's introductory session to a new member to gy, bashing the whole group left n right with words like anti-modernist, romantic, green environmental..etc. though he confessed to afthab that there is no clear cut rules n regulations and he was not ready to substantiate his allegations on anivar's request, i didnt know until now that all these words were filthy!!! regards, ahmed rafeek j On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: excuse me, but I seem to hve missed something - is this a war on credibility between green and grey youth, couched in the languages its couched in? am i missing the trees for the woods? can someone give me some picture please? On 19/06/2008, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It will be good if you can point clear examples before this branding effort WE ARE ALIVE BECAUSE OF HISTORY WE ARE DEAD BECAUSE OF HISTORY SO BLAME IT and like T V Chandran, say ormakalundayirikkanam!! cant understand why Dalit/Muslim politics should be modernist, anti-romantic and red (non-green) environmental ? there s no specifc rules and regulations, as far as i know but.. this is a big but hihi it's funny to think that sending only a particular genre of mails will make you immune to any criticism. it s really funny. but that is how even our green secualrism flourishes. it s s funnny. sorry for the disurbance (though DD era is almost over) On 6/19/08, Afthab Ellath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ranjith, I cant understand why Dalit/Muslim politics should be modernist, anti-romantic and red (non-green) environmental ? On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:36 AM, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/19/08, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, anti-modernist = may be most of the discussions in this group are tinted with postmodern vocabulary. romantic = wish i cud see a single one in this group. hahahah.. I enjoyed.. green environmental = not a bad color. if anybody make statistics of the mails in this group, dalit/muslim related mails won't sure be less in volume. and those mails were not only from 'branded fanatics' (who?). it's funny to think that sending only a particular genre of mails will make you immune to any criticism. regards, ahmed rajeek j ranju radha wrote: yea approval not required; but in order not to be moderated espesially if u r a Dalit or Muslim, be careful NOT TO BE ASSERTIVE, and always be submissive and utter yes yes to these anti-modernist romantic green environmental fanatic lng mails... and if u send long mails on Dalit/minority issues, u may be branded fanatically dalit/muslim thus goes the green experience enjoy!! It will be good if you can point clear examples before this branding effort Anivar (as list admin) On 6/19/08, Subid K.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moderators, please welcome this young friend and writer Asma Siddiquie from Pakistan, she would
[GreenYouth] Fwd: [IHRO] Some Muslim Americans feel shunned by Obama
=X3oDMTJncGVlZm02BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE3MjY3NjQ2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMjE0MjY5OTY3(Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest[EMAIL PROTECTED]:+Digest| Switch format to Traditional[EMAIL PROTECTED]:+Traditional Visit Your Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IHRO;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM2czNXZlBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE3MjY3NjQ2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNocGYEc3RpbWUDMTIxNDI2OTk2Nw--| Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/| Unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recent Activity - 566 New Membershttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/IHRO/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnZDVwc3FtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3MjY3NjQ2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjE0MjY5OTY3 Visit Your Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IHRO;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdHQyNGRpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE3MjY3NjQ2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMTQyNjk5Njc- Ads on Yahoo! Learn more now.http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13oe9b6un/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1214277167/L=/B=9C_VDdFJq2w-/J=1214269967257720/A=3848643/R=0/SIG=131q47hek/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2005cmp=Yahooctv=Groups4s=Ys2=s3=b=50 Reach customers searching for you. Women of Curves on Yahoo! Groupshttp://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13pou91r8/M=493064.12016299.12445691.11322765/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1214277167/L=/B=9S_VDdFJq2w-/J=1214269967257720/A=4990222/R=0/SIG=11odsb6gn/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/Women_Of_Curves_Everywhere see how women are changing their lives. Real Food Group Share recipes,http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o4thp0r/M=493064.12016243.13036160.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1214277167/L=/B=9i_VDdFJq2w-/J=1214269967257720/A=5379226/R=0/SIG=11gatb1qb/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/hellmanns/ restaurant ratings and favorite meals. . __,_._,___ -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Join Protest to Ensure Justice for Dalit students in IIT Delhi
Dear Sreenivas Can you shed light on the stringent form of assessment and the amount of transparency involved. I am curious. Regrds On 26/06/2008, sreenivas v.p [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello , I think this should not be taken as a caste based humiliation . IITs including delhi IIT are following a stringent form of assessment and this is applicable to all students irrespective of the caste they belong to. Do you mean to say that there should be some kind of reservation during the four year course at IIT also ?Or how this problem can be solved ? Regards Sreenivasan.V.P Bangalore. --- On *Thu, 26/6/08, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: From: ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [GreenYouth] Join Protest to Ensure Justice for Dalit students in IIT Delhi To: greenyouth@googlegroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, 26 June, 2008, 5:09 PM *Join Protest to Ensure Justice for Dalit students in IIT Delhi* * * *Recently, IIT Delhi served termination notices to 28 students from 1st, 2 nd and Final Year of the B.Tech Programs, citing their 'low' academic performances. Majority (20) of the terminated students belong to SC/ST community, rest from general category including OBCs and minority students. All these students were asked to leave the campus immediately.* There is a complete lack of transparency in the grading system followed by IIT Delhi giving absolute powers to the faculty members leaving the fate of the students on their mercy. The individual prejudices coupled with the arbitrariness of marking system are responsible for the alleged poor academic performance of Dalit students. Though IIT Delhi claims to follow a 'relative' evaluation system, however, the Administration is highly secretive and does not disclose any information, which can be used to make any relative evaluation and comparisons. The Administration is not even disclosing the complete list of terminated students, despite repeated requests to the Administration by the students. With dreams shattered and taken aback by the highhandedness of the Administration, the affected Dalit students were forced to approach the National Commission for Scheduled Castes (NCSC) for redressal of their grievances. The students narrated their experiences of caste-based humiliation and discrimination both from the IIT faculties the Administration. The Chairperson of the Commission, Sh Buta Singh, then summoned the Director of IIT Delhi on 17th June 2008, wherein the Director underplayed the issue by giving wrong information that only 12 students were terminated of which 7 belong to SC/ST. Sh Buta Singh has given 2 weeks time for the administration to reply back to the Commission. After being rebuked by the NCSC, IIT Delhi formed a Review Committee headed by a retired Dalit professor on 20th June to look into the matter raised by the students. However, the Dalit students who had deposed in front of this committee have expressed their complete dissatisfaction as the committee was not willing to listen to the students' version. The students have a strong belief that the committee is complete eyewash and a very dishonest attempt by IIT administration to look into their cases. Not a single question was asked by the committee on caste-based discrimination and when the students tried to raise the issue, they were cut short. *Our Demands* ·Immediate repeal of the termination of all 28 students. ·Nullification of the existing committee ·An independent committee comprising of socially sensitive members to be constituted under the aegis of Government/HRD Ministry to look into the issue of caste- based discrimination suffered by Dalit students in IIT Delhi. *We Appeal to all **the progressive people, faculty members, students Human Rights defenders to support IIT Delhi Students' Struggle for Justice join in large numbers for* * * *Demonstration at IIT Delhi Main Gate on 26th June 2008 at 10:30am*** * * *Dalit Students' Forum for Justice* Sanjeev(09958797409), Chandra Nigam (9899870597), Dr Ajita Rao(9818929480), Anoop(09313432410) -- Get an email ID as [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Click here. http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_dbid_4/*http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Habermas Ziauddin Zardar
between grey and green - where do public spaces start and end. are there privileges? On 28/06/2008, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how public are the public spaces i think Dileep has raised a relavnt question especiallyin the third world/developing world context. the habermasian concept f public sphere has been challenged by feminists though the cyber space assuems the possibily of more nuanced interventions, the question of access and the role moderators play in maintaing the law and order, not to mention the ontological positioning of these debates and its judgmntal intrpretations that define in totality these virtual interactions post colonial societies like ours has to re-look and re-invent the notion of the public and public spaces...whats and whos of defining the ideal and consrtcting commensencal normativityhas to be problematised -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: a poem - why men die before women
Dear Sreenivas Is it not easy to be a mesogynist. There are small things we might miss on the road, like the stringent IIT tests with proffesorial discretion in marking. How about making love to a man or being in love with one then how do these tasks get attributed In curiosity On 29/06/2008, sreenivas v.p [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you say you are liberal , she will dominate you If you dominate her, she will accept you If you don't laugh every time , she will say u r not confident and If you don't exploit her , she will think you are not smart if you dont iron your clothes, u r unhygenic if she dont iron her clothes, it is fashion regards sreenivasan.v.p bangalore --- On *Sun, 29/6/08, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: From: damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [GreenYouth] a poem - why men die before women To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Green Youth Movement greenyouth@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, 29 June, 2008, 2:21 PM *It is not as if men have no problems*: If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat race, you are a male chauvinist. If you stay home and do the housework, you're pansy. If you work too hard, there is never time for her. If you don't work enough, you're good for nothing bum. If she has a boring, repetitive job with low pay, this is exploitation. If you have a boring, repetitive job with low pay, you should get off your ass and find something better If you get a promotion ahead of her, that is favoritism. If she gets a job ahead of you, it's equal opportunity. If you mention how nice she looks, its sexual harassment If you keep quiet, its male indifference. If you cry, you're a wimp If you don't, you're an insensitive bastard. If you thump her, its wife bashing. If she thumps you, it's self defense. If you make a decision without consulting her, you're a chauvinist If she makes a decision without consulting you, she's a liberated woman. If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy, that's domination If she asks you, it's a favour. If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear, You're a pervert. If you don't, you're gay. If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape, You're sexist. If you don't you're unromantic. If you try to keep yourself in shape, you're vain. If you don't, you're a slob. If you buy her flowers, you're after something. If you don't, you're not thoughtful. If you're proud of your achievements, you're full of yourself. If you're not, you're not ambitious. If she has a headache, she's tried. If you have a headache, you don't love her anymore. If you want it too often, you're oversexed. If you don't, there must be someone else. NO WONDER MEN DIE BEFORE WOMEN! THEY WANT TO!! -- Get an email ID as [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Click here. http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_dbid_4/*http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Interview-Ashis nandy
that they could be wrong — that is their fear. You've called history an overrated discipline. Why? Every community of India has its own history, not only in terms of jati puranas but their own mythic history: memories handed down for generations. There are many ways of constructing the past, history is only one of them. But with this passion for history that came to India in the 19th century, everything has been historised. That, I think, has diminished us. Today, history is a major part of the knowledge industry, but that no longer enhances us. This search for truth about the past closes many pasts. From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 5, Issue 26, Dated July -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: a poem - why men die before women
There are no distinctions...Both poems have hetero-sexual innuendoes, couched in different languages as fr as I see and I feel the need to be educated On 30/06/2008, kalyani g [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friends, How to distnguish between both of your poems? However, Damodar Prasad's poem points to uncommon paradoxes. kalyani On 6/29/08, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Needless to state. Even then I need to take care to state that the poem I had *published* has no connection with Sreenivas' *rachana. * On 6/29/08, sreenivas v.p [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you say you are liberal , she will dominate you If you dominate her, she will accept you If you don't laugh every time , she will say u r not confident and If you don't exploit her , she will think you are not smart if you dont iron your clothes, u r unhygenic if she dont iron her clothes, it is fashion regards sreenivasan.v.p bangalore --- On *Sun, 29/6/08, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: From: damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [GreenYouth] a poem - why men die before women To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Green Youth Movement greenyouth@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, 29 June, 2008, 2:21 PM *It is not as if men have no problems*: If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat race, you are a male chauvinist. If you stay home and do the housework, you're pansy. If you work too hard, there is never time for her. If you don't work enough, you're good for nothing bum. If she has a boring, repetitive job with low pay, this is exploitation. If you have a boring, repetitive job with low pay, you should get off your ass and find something better If you get a promotion ahead of her, that is favoritism. If she gets a job ahead of you, it's equal opportunity. If you mention how nice she looks, its sexual harassment If you keep quiet, its male indifference. If you cry, you're a wimp If you don't, you're an insensitive bastard. If you thump her, its wife bashing. If she thumps you, it's self defense. If you make a decision without consulting her, you're a chauvinist If she makes a decision without consulting you, she's a liberated woman. If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy, that's domination If she asks you, it's a favour. If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear, You're a pervert. If you don't, you're gay. If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape, You're sexist. If you don't you're unromantic. If you try to keep yourself in shape, you're vain. If you don't, you're a slob. If you buy her flowers, you're after something. If you don't, you're not thoughtful. If you're proud of your achievements, you're full of yourself. If you're not, you're not ambitious. If she has a headache, she's tried. If you have a headache, you don't love her anymore. If you want it too often, you're oversexed. If you don't, there must be someone else. NO WONDER MEN DIE BEFORE WOMEN! THEY WANT TO!! -- Get an email ID as [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Click here.http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_dbid_4/*http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: a poem - why men die before women
:) Planning to shift to Muscat On 30/06/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bobby, More severe criticisms On 6/30/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are no distinctions...Both poems have hetero-sexual innuendoes, couched in different languages as fr as I see and I feel the need to be educated On 30/06/2008, kalyani g [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friends, How to distnguish between both of your poems? However, Damodar Prasad's poem points to uncommon paradoxes. kalyani On 6/29/08, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Needless to state. Even then I need to take care to state that the poem I had *published* has no connection with Sreenivas' *rachana. * On 6/29/08, sreenivas v.p [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you say you are liberal , she will dominate you If you dominate her, she will accept you If you don't laugh every time , she will say u r not confident and If you don't exploit her , she will think you are not smart if you dont iron your clothes, u r unhygenic if she dont iron her clothes, it is fashion regards sreenivasan.v.p bangalore --- On *Sun, 29/6/08, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED]*wrote: From: damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [GreenYouth] a poem - why men die before women To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Green Youth Movement greenyouth@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, 29 June, 2008, 2:21 PM *It is not as if men have no problems*: If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat race, you are a male chauvinist. If you stay home and do the housework, you're pansy. If you work too hard, there is never time for her. If you don't work enough, you're good for nothing bum. If she has a boring, repetitive job with low pay, this is exploitation. If you have a boring, repetitive job with low pay, you should get off your ass and find something better If you get a promotion ahead of her, that is favoritism. If she gets a job ahead of you, it's equal opportunity. If you mention how nice she looks, its sexual harassment If you keep quiet, its male indifference. If you cry, you're a wimp If you don't, you're an insensitive bastard. If you thump her, its wife bashing. If she thumps you, it's self defense. If you make a decision without consulting her, you're a chauvinist If she makes a decision without consulting you, she's a liberated woman. If you ask her to do something she doesn't enjoy, that's domination If she asks you, it's a favour. If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear, You're a pervert. If you don't, you're gay. If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape, You're sexist. If you don't you're unromantic. If you try to keep yourself in shape, you're vain. If you don't, you're a slob. If you buy her flowers, you're after something. If you don't, you're not thoughtful. If you're proud of your achievements, you're full of yourself. If you're not, you're not ambitious. If she has a headache, she's tried. If you have a headache, you don't love her anymore. If you want it too often, you're oversexed. If you don't, there must be someone else. NO WONDER MEN DIE BEFORE WOMEN! THEY WANT TO!! -- Get an email ID as [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Click here.http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_dbid_4/*http://in.promos.yahoo.com/address -- Bobby Kunhu -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Pragati Magazine July 2008 Edition
I believe we should let him talk, propaganda will always work on its own terms and needs to be countered as such On 01/07/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Murali hs sent to us PRAG*A*TI- their site address is http://pragati.nationalinterest.in/ all the blogs murali quotes like acorn, offstumped, retribution are lsited there. *NOW* *see this ( by just achange of word, where you are lead to *http://www.pragoti.org/ PRAG*O*TI Do visit and comment On 7/1/08, Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, you are right. On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Afthab Ellath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The most appropriate point to start reading the Indian national Interest... -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Breaking the Monolith
Dear Rafeek Monoliths are scary for me at least Best On 01/07/2008, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi boby, unfortunately yes. it was frozen somewhere in history. resurrecting now to reclaim the spirit of prophet Mohammad's (pbh) great democratic (wonderful in those days) spirit to be reciprocal in the multicultural societies. it is the real jihad to reclaim the identity to confront the western/secular terrorism. regards, ahmed rafeek On 7/1/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Islam monolithic? On 01/07/2008, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, being nice is not opposite to polemic. nicenesss may fail to be inclusive of spaces to disagree. members will encourage for common thoughts for nice acceptability. -- *If so, why so much disrespect is shown to others' feelings, religion and gods in practice, almost everywhere Islam is in a powerful position? Or is it that there is so much disconnect between preachings and practices in Islam?* it is islam in europe (our discursive context in connection with ziauddin sardar) the 'other'. terrorists and binladen are not against west. they intensify the 'otherness' of islam in the world over. but it is high time no to point the finger only at west, US and cia, but to our own islamic age old ideals and shariat laws to develop the reciprocity in multicultured socieites. it is because of the same reason of age old ideals, islam can't confront (no violence meant) the brutal brahmanic system in india. reagards, ahmed rafeek. ** On 7/1/08, kalyani g [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rafeek, Isnt it good that the discussions should get nicer. I agree with aftab, I was also pained. It was not in good taste. Free speech may continue kalyani On 7/1/08, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Please read the corrected word yellow highlighted.* *free speech doesnt mean you be disrespective to YOUR elders * * *the discussion seemed to me getting 'nicer', BUT i apologetically admit that my response was insensitive in search of breaking the 'niceness'. aftab, prasad, asma and all others who might get offended, please accept my apology. (in fact i too liked asma's poems) ahmed rafeek On 7/1/08, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hm... very insensitive remark On 7/1/08, Afthab Ellath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: being romantic in poems on green fields and queens may sound nice, I am a bit pained by the hidden meaning it conveyed... On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 12:15 PM, ahmed rafeek j [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi fortunately islam is not holding the position of dominance in the european context of blasphemy/ secularism. no matter what the scripcture preaches transcendental to history. we see how brutally the teachings of islam unfolding in the socieites where it is dominant like pakistan, s a u d i a r a b i a, a f ga nistan and all. reciprocal respect in multi-cultured society is not exactly applicable in all the context. we 've to be discriminating to the different groups and communities. and romantic imagination of respecting others may include all the 'stupid' senior citizens, but it may miss the respect the differences. differences will include the time differences. being romantic in poems on green fields and queens may sound nice, but responsibility is more important in 'actual' world. regards ahmed rafeek On 7/1/08, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/1/08, Asma Siddiqui [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all, Nice discussion. There is an ethical or unethical side of things just as we say freedom of expression or censorship. Freedom of expression doesn't mean to be hurtful for a particular sect/ group. Islam preaches to respect others' feelings, religion and their gods. If the Jyllands Posten had published the cartoons only for the purpose of exercising freedom of expression, it shows how little they know about freedom. Free speech doesnt mean you be disrespective to your elders. Agreeing with you on all the points except the last underlined one. when you speak of elders, you are speaking of individuals or perhaps senior citizens and not communities/ sect etc. We love the elders than their contemporaries because we value their significant contributions and we dont envy or scornful about them as do their same age or relatively same age group people. But a sort of irreverence is required that will only enable us understand their real worth and have our own way. All people of all ages have to go through or face this. What do you say. damodar regards Asma Siddiqui On Jul 1
[GreenYouth] Re: Pragati Magazine July 2008 Edition
a half-ignorant propagandist is the best that can asked for to kill something, so I will be always willing to oblige you Murali, as long as you continue spewing inanities On 02/07/2008, Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe we should let him talk, propaganda will always work on its own terms and needs to be countered as such Thank Bobby and the heavens for small mercies! :) Best regards, Murali On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 10:54 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Breaking the Monolith
A crucial element of what constitutes a crime is whats called *mens rea *or the intention and when it is translated into action *actus reas* The constitutional freedom of expression is expressly delimited by Art 19 (2), Murali might do himself a favour reading up on those discourses before making comments off the cuff On 02/07/2008, Murali K Warier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'Inflammatory discourse (as giving offense)' too should be covered under freedom of speech. Isn't it easy enough to distinguish between offensive speech and incitement to violence? The former is ok, the latter, not, of course. Saying 'your religion sucks' is ok, but saying 'go out and kill put your favorite religionists here' is not ok. It is ok to hate religions and religionists too, as long as your hate is not transformed into actions that jeopardize other peoples' rights. It is perfectly legit to hate Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Brahmins, Communists, Neo-liberals, Dalits, Nairs . (I am sure everybody here agrees with a partial list of the above) as long as these peoples' constitutional rights are not violated. Only Communist states could penalize thought crimes. Best regards, Murali On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 9:45 AM, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: Nandi and Modi
of the state's urban middle class. Recovering Gujarat from its urban middle class will not be easy. The class has found in militant religious nationalism a new self- respect and a new virtual identity as a martial community, the way Bengali babus, Maharashtrian Brahmins and Kashmiri Muslims at different times have sought salvation in violence. In Gujarat this class has smelt blood, for it does not have to do the killings but can plan, finance and coordinate them with impunity. The actual killers are the lowest of the low, mostly tribals and Dalits. The middle class controls the media and education, which have become hate factories in recent times. And they receive spirited support from most non-resident Indians who, at a safe distance from India, can afford to be more nationalist, bloodthirsty, and irresponsible. The writer is a political psychologi -- Forwarded message -- From: Bindu Menon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2 Jul 2008 14:44 -- Bindu At the end of the sentence,rain will begin-Derek Walcott -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] On blogging
Dear John and other friends On your suggestion, I have created a blogspot with some of my already published non-fiction articles, have tried to collect as many as available, lots of them are lost somewhere in cyberspace or not accessible even to me thanks to the copyright regime The site is http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/.59b80775/ Your comments will be invaluable Warmth -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: [IHRO] Who Speaks for Islam ?
=131q47hek/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2005cmp=Yahooctv=Groups4s=Ys2=s3=b=50 Reach customers searching for you. Yahoo! Groups Everyday Wellness Zonehttp://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13oqutplu/M=493064.12662708.12980600.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1215141793/L=/B=30KnGULaX.k-/J=1215134593471544/A=5349275/R=0/SIG=11nhsqmjq/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/EverydayWellness/ Check out featured healthy living groups. Best of Y! Groups Discover groupshttp://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13ovhlqiu/M=493064.12016306.12445698.8674578/D=groups/S=1705064309:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1215141793/L=/B=4EKnGULaX.k-/J=1215134593471544/A=4763762/R=0/SIG=11ou7otip/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/bestofyahoogroups/ that are the best of their class. . __,_._,___ -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Nizar Ahmed on ( the nonexistence of ) Public sphere in Keralam
On a lighter vein, Justice Bhattacharjee (former CJ of Bombay High Court) was teaching us ancient Indian Jurisprudenc - essentially the smritis and mimamsas, and the guy was showing off his knowledge of sanskrit and ended up conversing in sanskrit with an LL.M student, who was sitting into his lectures - to the consternation of the whole class, until one of our classmates got up on the pretext of asking a doubt and abused in Kannada. When Justice Bhattacharjea claimed he did not understand a word of this classmate's doubt, he responded that the class had not understood a word of what had been going on. *This post is not up for discussion :)* On 04/07/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/3/08, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If news, ideas, viewpoints etc are made known to the readers, viewers or listeners through a medium then it can not constitute a public sphere, even when there is a public who gather around that medium however discretely in space and time. It may not be the case if you take an Andersnian position and tries to look at nation as a constituted public sphere. And in the vein of McLuhan, can't utter Medium is the message and massage.. the wonderful thing about Habermasian public sphere is that it assumes an ideal *space for freedom of expression.* the medium itself need not, but the way it extend human senses does the magic, perhaps Renju,' It would also be worth noting that Habermas himself has critiqued the very concept of public sphere in his work structural tranformation of public sphere. In one of the last chapter of this work on Transformation of Public Sphere's Political Function, he is excplicit not only about the limits of the term but how the *manipulated public sphere is taken over by an acclamation-prone mood that predominates and result is that an opinion climate subsumes public opinions. (* Structural Transformation of Public Sphere, Polity Press, 1989) Habermas also points to the penetration of state and society with each other that brings forth a *middle sphere of semipublic*. (P231, ibid) The State-aligned NGOs are succesful in establishing such semi public spheres were the *urgency to consensus and immediacy to conclude on areas which contravene the entreched understanding* whether it be science, politics, secularism or any sort of trivia. Habermas further states that the politically influential representatives of cultural and religious forces the entreching of private interests in the face of the 'neomercantilism which leads to *refedualization.* *The apparently progressives in society in the wake of a emergent popular radical politics retreats to the refedualize the public sphere*. Habermas concerns perhaps with the delimits and contravening forces within the modernity. But let us also think critically how the self-proclaimed semi public spheres are shaped in contexts familiar to us. *Public Sphere* from the inception of the term like Communism is a *social fantasy- and *hence* ahistorica*l. But like the impulsivity of historical materialism to locate Communism outside history, Habermas suitably finds a locale and period for claiming the historical specificity. Like the several 'idealized' *semi public spheres of our times, we find the supposedly 'ideal space' as discriminatory*. Habermas and *all those who still adores * the fantasy of 'public sphere never saw or rather failed *to see the exclusion of different voices - - woman, dalit, muslim, sexual minorities- minoirty voices with a difference*. damodar PS: am also compelled go think of a kerala model public sphere, which could be artificially correct but politically wrong. But now; later. (let me rethink . this s just a first response. -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Nizar Ahmed on ( the nonexistence of ) Public sphere in Keralam
*touche* On 04/07/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :-) Bobby, I read your blog and was reading it again. *Now with this anecdote, I feel much releived. * ;-) *prasad* ** ** On 7/4/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On a lighter vein, Justice Bhattacharjee (former CJ of Bombay High Court) was teaching us ancient Indian Jurisprudenc - essentially the smritis and mimamsas, and the guy was showing off his knowledge of sanskrit and ended up conversing in sanskrit with an LL.M student, who was sitting into his lectures - to the consternation of the whole class, until one of our classmates got up on the pretext of asking a doubt and abused in Kannada. When Justice Bhattacharjea claimed he did not understand a word of this classmate's doubt, he responded that the class had not understood a word of what had been going on. *This post is not up for discussion :)* On 04/07/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/3/08, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If news, ideas, viewpoints etc are made known to the readers, viewers or listeners through a medium then it can not constitute a public sphere, even when there is a public who gather around that medium however discretely in space and time. It may not be the case if you take an Andersnian position and tries to look at nation as a constituted public sphere. And in the vein of McLuhan, can't utter Medium is the message and massage.. the wonderful thing about Habermasian public sphere is that it assumes an ideal *space for freedom of expression.* the medium itself need not, but the way it extend human senses does the magic, perhaps Renju,' It would also be worth noting that Habermas himself has critiqued the very concept of public sphere in his work structural tranformation of public sphere. In one of the last chapter of this work on Transformation of Public Sphere's Political Function, he is excplicit not only about the limits of the term but how the *manipulated public sphere is taken over by an acclamation-prone mood that predominates and result is that an opinion climate subsumes public opinions. (* Structural Transformation of Public Sphere, Polity Press, 1989) Habermas also points to the penetration of state and society with each other that brings forth a *middle sphere of semipublic*. (P231, ibid) The State-aligned NGOs are succesful in establishing such semi public spheres were the *urgency to consensus and immediacy to conclude on areas which contravene the entreched understanding* whether it be science, politics, secularism or any sort of trivia. Habermas further states that the politically influential representatives of cultural and religious forces the entreching of private interests in the face of the 'neomercantilism which leads to *refedualization.* *The apparently progressives in society in the wake of a emergent popular radical politics retreats to the refedualize the public sphere*. Habermas concerns perhaps with the delimits and contravening forces within the modernity. But let us also think critically how the self-proclaimed semi public spheres are shaped in contexts familiar to us. *Public Sphere* from the inception of the term like Communism is a *social fantasy- and *hence* ahistorica*l. But like the impulsivity of historical materialism to locate Communism outside history, Habermas suitably finds a locale and period for claiming the historical specificity. Like the several 'idealized' *semi public spheres of our times, we find the supposedly 'ideal space' as discriminatory*. Habermas and *all those who still adores* the fantasy of 'public sphere never saw or rather failed *to see the exclusion of different voices - - woman, dalit, muslim, sexual minorities- minoirty voices with a difference*. damodar PS: am also compelled go think of a kerala model public sphere, which could be artificially correct but politically wrong. But now; later. (let me rethink . this s just a first response. -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] The Big Women - a poem
Since, there seems to be a flurry of poetry suddenly on this group, I thought, I would share one of my old poems here as well, also posting it to other friends, comments are welcome ** ** ** *The big women* * * Three of them, one 3 and another 2 on each of her hips. Yet another 1 and a ½ in the hospital bed, She paces around, squeezing sweet lime. Purposeful, the smile and tear equally enjoyable, part of her life. She sits, waits patiently, she knows her position in life. She knows her duty. She learnt all of it when she was 14, When for the first time she heard the three words,* * *Talaq, talaq, talaq* *Ayisumma* * * Reminiscing about when she strutted around in her palanquin Looking smug, legs stretched, controlling men Palms around the purse strings, tight, counting money Power surges from her beautiful face, holds, controls Husbands, children, grandchildren, pay obeisance, to her, her control She knows her game, she learnt it often enough, When she learnt the three words *Talaq, talaq, talaq* *Pathumma* She rummaged around for her jewelry, her earrings, her bangles By god, she knew everything that a mortal needed to The *Arabi, *the *dikr, *the *nercha, *the *paththiri,* the *shariait * Peaceful five prayers a day, good progeny, better servants No restlessness, no happiness, no sadness, just the five prayers She knows her life, what belongs to whom and where When she has never heard the three words *Talaq, talaq, talaq* *Khadija* -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: [PIPFPD] Coalition Against Genocide calls for the continuation of visa ban on Modi
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[GreenYouth] The Revolt of Islam
lingers Soon pause in silence, ne'er to sound again, Though it might shake the Anarch Custom's reign, And charm the minds of men to Truth's own sway, Holier than was Amphion's? I would fain Reply in hope--but I am worn away, And Death and Love are yet contending for their prey. XI And what art thou? I know, but dare not speak: Time may interpret to his silent years. Yet in the paleness of thy thoughtful cheek, And in the light thine ample forehead wears, And in thy sweetest smiles, and in thy tears, And in thy gentle speech, a prophecy Is whispered to subdue my fondest fears; And, through thine eyes, even in thy soul I see A lamp of vestal fire burning internally. XII They say that thou wert lovely from thy birth, Of glorious parents thou aspiring Child! I wonder not--for One then left this earth Whose life was like a setting planet mild, Which clothed thee in the radiance undefiled Of its departing glory; still her fame Shines on thee, through the tempests dark and wild Which shake these latter days; and thou canst claim The shelter, from thy Sire, of an immortal name. XIII One voice came forth from many a mighty spirit, Which was the echo of three thousand years; And the tumultuous world stood mute to hear it, As some lone man who in a desert hears The music of his home:--unwonted fears Fell on the pale oppressors of our race, And Faith, and Custom, and low-thoughted cares, Like thunder-stricken dragons, for a space Left the torn human heart, their food and dwelling-place. XIV Truth's deathless voice pauses among mankind! If there must be no response to my cry-- If men must rise and stamp with fury blind On his pure name who loves them,--thou and I, Sweet Friend! can look from our tranquillity Like lamps into the world's tempestuous night,-- Two tranquil stars, while clouds are passing by Which wrap them from the foundering seaman's sight, That burn from year to year with unextinguished light. -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] HINDU NATIONALISM AND GOVERNANCE
HINDU NATIONALISM AND GOVERNANCE Edited by John McGuire Ian Copland,OUP, 2007, Rs.695, pp.476. This book is a significant contribution to the study of BJP in power. With the BJP making a determined effort to return to power in the next general elections, scholarly interest on how the BJP governed the country from 1998 to 2004 should naturally focus on whether the initial apprehensions in the media when BJP formed its first durable Government in 1998 were justified. Although the stability of the BJP-led NDA Government was in doubt every time when it was formed - first in 1996, (when it formed Government for 13 days) then in 1998, and in 1999 - the Vajpayee Government survived the multi-party coalition experiment successfully. Along with the stability question with which it was concerned throughout its tenure, the NDA Government was also accountable for its omissions and commissions, especially for its pursuit of the so-called hidden agenda of the Sangh Parivar. That is why the decisions taken by the various Ministries during those six years must receive scholarly scrutiny, beyond the superficial journalistic account, in order to make an assessment of what an ideological party can do or cannot do while in power. John McGuire, Professor of Modern Indian History, Curtin University of Technology, Australia, and Ian Copland, Associate Professor of History and School of Historical Studies, Monash University, Australia have edited this volume. Contributors include Prabhat Patnaik (Economic Policy), Douglas Hill (Food Security, Governance, and Rural Development), Greg Bailey (Rewriting of Indian History), Salim Lakha (sifting economic agenda), Mushirul Hasan (Text Books), Edwina Mason (Politics of Hindu nationalism), Brian Shoesmith and Norel Mecklai (Hindu Rashtra), Robin Jeffrey (media revolution), Rita Manchanda (Hindu public discourse), and Achin Vanaik (foreign policy perspectives). There are separate essays on Kashmir, Pakistan and Bangladesh as well. While these independent essays by these specialists will most certainly offer the much-needed insights into the functioning of the Government, there is indeed need for a chronologically backed scholarly account of the BJP in power, focusing on the issues of governance, that is, the legislative output in Parliament, the controversies and compromises which marked the executive decisions, and the state of independent institutions such as judiciary and election commission, apart from the dynamics of party-Government relationship. The book has no chapters on these themes, which only shows there is a void which can be filled by interested scholars. -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: [invites] Banish Bajaj Campaign
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[GreenYouth] Re: Kerala is No1 in farmer suicide rate
whats also interesting is the actual beneficiaries of the farm loan waivers are not the farmers. I have been looking at the records with a friend who works for the South Malabar Grameen Bank. It might beinteresting if someone can undertake a study. I can provide the base materials On 12/07/2008, Anivar Aravind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote Considered in terms of FSR, Kerala had the highest FSR (142.9 per 100,000 farmers) in 2006. Chhattisgarh is third with 33.7 per 100,000 farmers, right behind Karnataka which is second with a figure of 36.4. /quote http://infochangeindia.org/200806287192/Agriculture/Features/Farmer-suicides-in-Chhattisgarh-A-state-in-denial.html -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism
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[GreenYouth] Re: Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism
Have posted it below for the time being, will try and post it in Outlook and EPW, where this article was published, unfortunately, I do not have log in access to either, so would be grateful if someone else could do it too Best http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/The-Parallel-between-anti-Brahminism-and-anti-Semitism-851964.htm On 13/07/2008, Afthab Ellath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very good response... Do post it as a response wherever his article came Regards Afthab Ellath On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 7:46 AM, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *bobby, * *Adipoli *critical response dprasad On 7/13/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should this be posted on de Roover's blog? Manufacturing episteme is an important function for any ideology, particularly in the process of being institutionalised. It's in this context; one has to ask the question who is Jakob de Roover? A Belgian academic, who claims specialisation and interest in India, working with the University of Ghent. Reading his opinions along with his biography, would remind one of the well-meaning Indologists of the yore – claiming epistemological expertise with no reference to the experience of the human beings that's sought to be represented. Now, if one takes a harder look, de Roover works with S. N. Balagangadhara, and most of the former's writings have either echoed his mentor or praised him. One only needs to look at the wiki entry for Balagangadhara, it seems to have been written up by this ardent discipleship and contains cross-references therein. Then, de Roover belongs to a different breed of Indologist, but nonetheless with the same amount of scantiness of respect for the human population that he theorises on. In short, he plays the same academic game that he claims to abhor and wants to thrust a point of view from the ringside without adequate grounding!!! He betrays this in another article on *Does Europe have a Civilising Mission in India?, * arguing vehemently against the representation made by Dalit groups before the European Parliament. Now, having said as much, the purpose of this write up is to rebut the pernicious and obnoxious thesis put forward by de Roover drawing parallels between anti-Brahminism with anti-Semitism in his piece *The Parallel Between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism. *At the first glance, the piece reveals an opinionated mind that has done its homework and has worked on stereo-types and generalisation to build a thesis and sell it. I am at a loss how anyone can write such a piece without any reference to Zionism. This lack of reference plays into the same trick conjured by the State of Israel of claiming victimhood to prevalent anti-Semitism to legitimise genocide of Palestinians. This comparison also is an insult to the victims of the Nazi perpetrated anti-Semitic genocide, given that the symbols of the Nazi ideology were borrowed wholesale from Brahminical sources – in case of doubts refer to the Swastika. The next thing that's striking about the article is a complete lack of understanding of the caste system in South Asia and how it defines lives in the geo-cultural region. Further, perhaps de Roover does not understand any of the terms he uses from Brahminism to Semitism to Social Sciences The piece is excruciatingly painful in trying to portray the true fact that Brahmins are a minority in India like the Jews in Europe, where the similarity begins and ends. In attempting this portrayal, the article betrays its lack of homework on what Brahminism is and how it operates. Let me start with a caveat that de Roover glosses over, that brahminism is not about Brahmins alone, it is about a social system that is so pervasive that it engulfed even Christianity and Islam that came to the sub-continent much before the colonising influences with its strict hegemonies. If the European colonising episteme did help in pointing out the unfairness of the hierarchy, well and good. In that sense, Brahminism of course, as de Roover points out is not a religion in the sense of the Judaic faith. What is amazing about the opinion is that while discussing an ideology that affects around one and a half billion people in the South Asian region, there seems to have been little effort made to look at sources or methodologies that have worked on the phenomenon called Brahminism. The piece evidently glosses over numerous studies that have shirked off what de Roover claims as western epistemology – as non-understnding of caste – to arrive at Brahminism. I assume, that Dr. B. R. Ambedkar and his ilk might be contrary to the position that de Roover is trying to propagate, but he could have at least sought the academic support of people like Dipankar Gupta, whose ideological positions in international fora strongly resemble de Roover's. Or, do studies that emanate from the sub-continent too frivolous for any research
[GreenYouth] Fwd: [GreenYouth] Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism
Dear Richard I am posting your response in the mailing list where I saw the article first. I had written aresponse,which I shall send you seperately He does seem to be making an assumption of difference between Hindutva and Brahminism, but there are too many gaps in the piece and it comes across as condescending Love -- Forwarded message -- From: Richard Duffee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 14 Jul 2008 20:27 Subject: Re: [GreenYouth] Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism To: Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bobby, In the last paragraph I don't get the relevance of this question: What is needed to realise that the Hindutva movement has simply taken its cue from the secularists? Can you explain? Is he assuming that Hindutva is anti-Brahmin? I don't get it. The whole thing is argument by analogy, and the analogy does not look that close to me. The Jews really have and had a different religion from Christians in Europe. The Brahmins represented and controlled the religion of most Indians. Jews were not allowed to own land in Germany and many other countries--by rule both of the Sanhedrin AND the local states--and that forced them into urban professions to survive. Brahmins were roughly a third of the land-owners of India. Jews were not in a superior position to most Christians. Brahmins were in a superior to the vast majority of Hindus. The analogy is formed on an analogy between current ideology about Brahmins and Jews. From this the author wants us to infer that the two ideologies are equally false and equally destructive without asking seriously whether there is an analogy between historical reality or between the actual relationships between the targetted groups and the rest of society. Richard On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what do u make of this article -- Forwarded message -- From: C.K. Vishwanath [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9 Jul 2008 10:21 Subject: [GreenYouth] Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: greenyouth@googlegroups.com 1. The Parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Shttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/message/11014;_ylc=X3oDMTJzcGlzNjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRtc2dJZAMxMTAxNARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjE1NTM2NjEzemitism http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/message/11014;_ylc=X3oDMTJzcGlzNjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRtc2dJZAMxMTAxNARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjE1NTM2NjEz Posted by Thursday, July 03, 2008 The Parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism To be against Brahminism is part and parcel of the political correctness of progressive scholars in twenty-first- century India, much like being against Muslims is part of the message of their Hindutva colleagues. ... by Jakob De Roover Social science debate in India has been hijacked by the struggle between secularism and Hindutva for decades now. Usually the Sangh Parivar is blamed for this turn of events. However, it could well be argued that the Hindutva ideologues simply adopted the stance of the secularists. Perhaps the best illustration is the case of anti-Brahminism. To be against Brahminism is part and parcel of the political correctness of progressive scholars in twenty-first- century India, much like being against Muslims is part of the message of their Hindutva colleagues. This indicates that something is very wrong with the Indian academic debate. Promotion of animosity towards a religious tradition or its followers is not acceptable today, but it becomes truly perverse when the intelligentsia endorses it. In Europe, it took horrendous events to put an end to the propaganda of anti-Semitism, which had penetrated the media and intelligentsia. It required decades of incessant campaigning before anti-Semitism was relegated to the realm of intellectual and political bankruptcy. In India, anti-Brahminism is still the proud slogan of many political parties and the credential of the radical intellectual. Some may find this parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism ill-advised. Nevertheless, it has strong grounds. First, there are striking similarities between the stereotypes about Brahmins in India and those about Jews in the West. Jews have been described as devious connivers, who would do anything for personal gain. They were said to be secretive and untrustworthy, manipulating politics and the economy. In India, Brahmins are all too often characterised in the same way. Second, the stereotypes about the Jews were part of a larger story about a historical conspiracy in which they had supposedly exploited European societies. To this day, the stories about a Jewish conspiracy against humanity prevail. The anti-Brahminical stories sound much the same, but have the Brahmins plotting against the oppressed classes in Indian society. In both cases, historians have claimed
[GreenYouth] Fwd: [GreenYouth] Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism
-- Forwarded message -- From: Richard Duffee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 15 Jul 2008 07:54 Subject: Re: [GreenYouth] Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism To: Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Looked to me like he was arguing that the Hindutva people are anti-Brahmin in the sense that many Christians are anti-Semitic. Curious misperception of both Hindutva AND modern Christianity: Born-Again Christians are solidly on the side of Zionists. Nor, of course, have Brahmins been persecuted, let alone starved and thrown in ovens. The appearance of victimization is a great cover for oppressive people: look to me like Brahmins want to be identified with Jews to share in the role of righteous victimization. Pretty sleazy. Richard On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 7:51 PM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Richard I am posting your response in the mailing list where I saw the article first. I had written aresponse,which I shall send you seperately He does seem to be making an assumption of difference between Hindutva and Brahminism, but there are too many gaps in the piece and it comes across as condescending Love -- Forwarded message -- From: Richard Duffee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 14 Jul 2008 20:27 Subject: Re: [GreenYouth] Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism To: Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bobby, In the last paragraph I don't get the relevance of this question: What is needed to realise that the Hindutva movement has simply taken its cue from the secularists? Can you explain? Is he assuming that Hindutva is anti-Brahmin? I don't get it. The whole thing is argument by analogy, and the analogy does not look that close to me. The Jews really have and had a different religion from Christians in Europe. The Brahmins represented and controlled the religion of most Indians. Jews were not allowed to own land in Germany and many other countries--by rule both of the Sanhedrin AND the local states--and that forced them into urban professions to survive. Brahmins were roughly a third of the land-owners of India. Jews were not in a superior position to most Christians. Brahmins were in a superior to the vast majority of Hindus. The analogy is formed on an analogy between current ideology about Brahmins and Jews. From this the author wants us to infer that the two ideologies are equally false and equally destructive without asking seriously whether there is an analogy between historical reality or between the actual relationships between the targetted groups and the rest of society. Richard On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what do u make of this article -- Forwarded message -- From: C.K. Vishwanath [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 9 Jul 2008 10:21 Subject: [GreenYouth] Anti-brahminism and Anti-semitism To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: greenyouth@googlegroups.com 1. The Parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Shttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/message/11014;_ylc=X3oDMTJzcGlzNjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRtc2dJZAMxMTAxNARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjE1NTM2NjEzemitism http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTCaste/message/11014;_ylc=X3oDMTJzcGlzNjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEzMzU5MzQ3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2NDMwOQRtc2dJZAMxMTAxNARzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMjE1NTM2NjEz Posted by Thursday, July 03, 2008 The Parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti-Semitism To be against Brahminism is part and parcel of the political correctness of progressive scholars in twenty-first- century India, much like being against Muslims is part of the message of their Hindutva colleagues. ... by Jakob De Roover Social science debate in India has been hijacked by the struggle between secularism and Hindutva for decades now. Usually the Sangh Parivar is blamed for this turn of events. However, it could well be argued that the Hindutva ideologues simply adopted the stance of the secularists. Perhaps the best illustration is the case of anti-Brahminism. To be against Brahminism is part and parcel of the political correctness of progressive scholars in twenty-first- century India, much like being against Muslims is part of the message of their Hindutva colleagues. This indicates that something is very wrong with the Indian academic debate. Promotion of animosity towards a religious tradition or its followers is not acceptable today, but it becomes truly perverse when the intelligentsia endorses it. In Europe, it took horrendous events to put an end to the propaganda of anti-Semitism, which had penetrated the media and intelligentsia. It required decades of incessant campaigning before anti-Semitism was relegated to the realm of intellectual and political bankruptcy. In India, anti-Brahminism is still the proud slogan of many political parties and the credential of the radical intellectual. Some may find this parallel between anti-Brahminism and anti
[GreenYouth] Fwd: Weekly Update: Change.org Looking to Hire a Web Designer
in the small South American country. Upon returning to the U.S., Scott helped establish a nonprofit called Friends Returned Peace Corps Volunteers of Guyana (FROG), which is dedicated to supporting education, health, economic, and environmental programs in Guyana. He blogs at http://brokekid.net. Have a great week! - The Change.org Team To unsubscribe from your weekly updates, click the link below. http://www.change.org/my_change/email_opt_out?email_id=CBFHLLNDDKKEPLBOGEVW -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] A review of Elizabeth Kostova's A Historian
A Guide to Bram Stoker's Dracula ** That's what Elizabeth Kostova's novel *A Historian *can be rightly described. The notes are extensive and Dracula has been historicised. The Count is brought out of Bram Stoker's Transylvania and from the dark corners of the numerous Hollywood adaptations of the novel and placed in his historic context - Vlad III, Vlad Tepes or Vlad Dracula. Vlad, the ruler of Wallachia and Transylvania, has been an important peg in the history of the resistance against Ottoman incursions. Supposedly hostaged by his father to Sultan Mehmet as a young boy in exchange for a ceasefire, he learnt extensively from his captors, particularly methods of torture and employed them liberally in his later life as the ruler of Wallachia and Transylvania, impaling his enemies and earning the epithet of the *Impaler *for himself. Kostova provides the missing links in Stoker's novel or rather provides defence against the criticisms of lack of historicity of the novel. The novel tells the story of a family of Historians and their friends piecing together various fragments of evidences in a chase for the tomb of Vlad Dracula, to destroy him – there are personal passions that drive each of the protagonists on this macabre trail – for those with a taste for the supernatural. The novel offers vignettes of a not-much-studied past for those of us who are fascinated by either history or theology or the history of theology. It is pieced together through oral narratives, letters between lovers, parent and child and simple references to texts – a labyrinth of love stories straddling the horrific. But what makes the book beautiful is the way Kostova goes about this. In the process of writing this novel, Kostova's characters, most of whom are historians, bring history down from its pedestal of high culture and uses credible subaltern sources like folklore without any hint of condescension, navigating through texts with as much alacrity as superstitions and personal narratives. The text is replete with vampire stories from Romania, the Balkans, Russia and Turkey and these stories act as the key to the search for the tomb of Vlad Tepes III In the process, Kostova dwells a lot on medieval Central European History, particularly the skirmishes with the Ottoman Empire, and the role of the Order of the Dragon (the word Dracul is supposed to be the Romanian derivative for Dragon), careful enough not to take sides in the process of telling the story. In fact as a masterstroke, she gets the protagonists to ally with traditional rivals from the erstwhile Ottoman Empire and with interesting forays into the former soviet bloc in fighting the dreaded Dracula – a Vampire. The flipside of the novel is the uncanny feeling that Kostova is trying to do a *Da Vinci Code, *especially with pure bloodline bit tracing the direct descendants of Vlad Dracula. The most touching part of the book is a post-card written by the Narrator's mother, which in some ways validates this tracing of the bloodline: *My beloved daughter* * * *When you were born, your hair was black and stuck to your slimy head in curls. After they washed and dried you, it became a soft down around your face, dark hair like mine, but also coppery like your father's. I lay in a pool of morphine, and held you and watched the lights in your newborn hair change from Gypsy dark to bright, and then back to dark. Everything about you was polished and shone; I had shaped and polished you inside me without knowing what I was doing. Your fingers were golden, your cheek was rose, your eyelashes and eyebrows were the feathers of the baby crow. My happiness overflowed even the morphine.* * * *Your Loving Mother* -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: A review of Elizabeth Kostova's A Historian
There are a number of critical readings of Bram Stoker's Dracula. However, I
am yet tocome across him as a chivalrous person - a polished, intelligent,
well-read and suave villain yes
The point of Kostova's book is that he is seen as a historical persona who
was on the side of christendom against the Ottomans (Crusades), while in her
novel itself christendom holds hands with a muslim turkey to defeat Vlad
Dracula!!
I have not read Chullikad's poem, but would definitely like to know more
On 17/07/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kunhu,
{Shall I call like this, there is a sort of cuteness :) .
tell my name..
damodar prasad. it grinds like a rusted heavy machine of that old mavoor
rayons factory.:( }
. Ys.. I read the review.. Liked it.
Mnw, i cant clearly recollect.. this I read longtime back..
There is a critical reading of Bramstoker's dracula. The reading points to
the moment of dissection of Draculas' self to a blood thirsty one from the
chivalarous knght dracula. It crtical;y points to the 'westren encounter' of
the non-european world. Remaining things coming not easily to the mnd now..
anyways, there is an interesting historical redaing of draculas' text.. not
failing to remind of our own chullikad's Dracula poem. But am sure some in
this group defintely has read this.. Pls. do tell us about it
damodar
On 7/17/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A Guide to Bram Stoker's Dracula
**
That's what Elizabeth Kostova's novel *A Historian *can be rightly
described. The notes are extensive and Dracula has been historicised. The
Count is brought out of Bram Stoker's Transylvania and from the dark corners
of the numerous Hollywood adaptations of the novel and placed in his
historic context - Vlad III, Vlad Tepes or Vlad Dracula.
Vlad, the ruler of Wallachia and Transylvania, has been an important peg
in the history of the resistance against Ottoman incursions. Supposedly
hostaged by his father to Sultan Mehmet as a young boy in exchange for a
ceasefire, he learnt extensively from his captors, particularly methods of
torture and employed them liberally in his later life as the ruler of
Wallachia and Transylvania, impaling his enemies and earning the epithet of
the *Impaler *for himself. Kostova provides the missing links in Stoker's
novel or rather provides defence against the criticisms of lack of
historicity of the novel.
The novel tells the story of a family of Historians and their friends
piecing together various fragments of evidences in a chase for the tomb of
Vlad Dracula, to destroy him – there are personal passions that drive each
of the protagonists on this macabre trail – for those with a taste for the
supernatural. The novel offers vignettes of a not-much-studied past for
those of us who are fascinated by either history or theology or the history
of theology. It is pieced together through oral narratives, letters between
lovers, parent and child and simple references to texts – a labyrinth of
love stories straddling the horrific.
But what makes the book beautiful is the way Kostova goes about this. In
the process of writing this novel, Kostova's characters, most of whom are
historians, bring history down from its pedestal of high culture and uses
credible subaltern sources like folklore without any hint of condescension,
navigating through texts with as much alacrity as superstitions and personal
narratives. The text is replete with vampire stories from Romania, the
Balkans, Russia and Turkey and these stories act as the key to the search
for the tomb of Vlad Tepes III
In the process, Kostova dwells a lot on medieval Central European History,
particularly the skirmishes with the Ottoman Empire, and the role of the
Order of the Dragon (the word Dracul is supposed to be the Romanian
derivative for Dragon), careful enough not to take sides in the process of
telling the story. In fact as a masterstroke, she gets the protagonists to
ally with traditional rivals from the erstwhile Ottoman Empire and with
interesting forays into the former soviet bloc in fighting the dreaded
Dracula – a Vampire.
The flipside of the novel is the uncanny feeling that Kostova is trying to
do a *Da Vinci Code, *especially with pure bloodline bit tracing the
direct descendants of Vlad Dracula. The most touching part of the book is a
post-card written by the Narrator's mother, which in some ways validates
this tracing of the bloodline:
*My beloved daughter*
* *
*When you were born, your hair was black and stuck to your slimy head in
curls. After they washed and dried you, it became a soft down around your
face, dark hair like mine, but also coppery like your father's. I lay in a
pool of morphine, and held you and watched the lights in your newborn hair
change from Gypsy dark to bright, and then back to dark. Everything about
you was polished and shone; I had shaped and polished you inside me without
[GreenYouth] Re: A review of Elizabeth Kostova's A Historian
Nina Auerbach and David Skal, *Drcula,* Norton Critical edition
Radu Florescu and Raymond McNally, *In Search of Dracula*
Leonard Wolf, *The Essential Dracula*
and many more
On 17/07/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yeah.. not chivalarous..
thats correct..provide here a critical reading here.. one you come across..
but polished, typifing the euro-aristocart (may be like Luckasc!!!:)
Chuliikad poem is about *malayali dracula*...
But the real malaylai draculas (not chullikkads) are very *
'chivalarous* *...pand nair like- doing yudham only in the morning
and eating heavily aftrenoon and with an embakkam snoring others to death*
and kottayam pushapnath has also a novel Drakulayaude Savamancham .
malayali draculas like *ada pradhman* made by renowned thrissur chef ambi
swami... than cold or hot blood
On 7/17/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are a number of critical readings of Bram Stoker's Dracula. However,
I am yet tocome across him as a chivalrous person - a polished,
intelligent, well-read and suave villain yes
The point of Kostova's book is that he is seen as a historical persona who
was on the side of christendom against the Ottomans (Crusades), while in her
novel itself christendom holds hands with a muslim turkey to defeat Vlad
Dracula!!
I have not read Chullikad's poem, but would definitely like to know more
On 17/07/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kunhu,
{Shall I call like this, there is a sort of cuteness :) .
tell my name..
damodar prasad. it grinds like a rusted heavy machine of that old mavoor
rayons factory.:( }
. Ys.. I read the review.. Liked it.
Mnw, i cant clearly recollect.. this I read longtime back..
There is a critical reading of Bramstoker's dracula. The reading points
to the moment of dissection of Draculas' self to a blood thirsty one from
the chivalarous knght dracula. It crtical;y points to the 'westren
encounter' of the non-european world. Remaining things coming not easily to
the mnd now..
anyways, there is an interesting historical redaing of draculas' text..
not failing to remind of our own chullikad's Dracula poem. But am sure
some in this group defintely has read this.. Pls. do tell us about it
damodar
On 7/17/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A Guide to Bram Stoker's Dracula
**
That's what Elizabeth Kostova's novel *A Historian *can be rightly
described. The notes are extensive and Dracula has been historicised. The
Count is brought out of Bram Stoker's Transylvania and from the dark
corners
of the numerous Hollywood adaptations of the novel and placed in his
historic context - Vlad III, Vlad Tepes or Vlad Dracula.
Vlad, the ruler of Wallachia and Transylvania, has been an important peg
in the history of the resistance against Ottoman incursions. Supposedly
hostaged by his father to Sultan Mehmet as a young boy in exchange for a
ceasefire, he learnt extensively from his captors, particularly methods of
torture and employed them liberally in his later life as the ruler of
Wallachia and Transylvania, impaling his enemies and earning the epithet of
the *Impaler *for himself. Kostova provides the missing links in
Stoker's novel or rather provides defence against the criticisms of lack of
historicity of the novel.
The novel tells the story of a family of Historians and their friends
piecing together various fragments of evidences in a chase for the tomb of
Vlad Dracula, to destroy him – there are personal passions that drive each
of the protagonists on this macabre trail – for those with a taste for the
supernatural. The novel offers vignettes of a not-much-studied past for
those of us who are fascinated by either history or theology or the history
of theology. It is pieced together through oral narratives, letters between
lovers, parent and child and simple references to texts – a labyrinth of
love stories straddling the horrific.
But what makes the book beautiful is the way Kostova goes about this. In
the process of writing this novel, Kostova's characters, most of whom are
historians, bring history down from its pedestal of high culture and uses
credible subaltern sources like folklore without any hint of condescension,
navigating through texts with as much alacrity as superstitions and
personal
narratives. The text is replete with vampire stories from Romania, the
Balkans, Russia and Turkey and these stories act as the key to the search
for the tomb of Vlad Tepes III
In the process, Kostova dwells a lot on medieval Central European
History, particularly the skirmishes with the Ottoman Empire, and the role
of the Order of the Dragon (the word Dracul is supposed to be the Romanian
derivative for Dragon), careful enough not to take sides in the process of
telling the story. In fact as a masterstroke, she gets the protagonists to
ally with traditional rivals from the erstwhile Ottoman Empire
[GreenYouth] Re: A review of Elizabeth Kostova's A Historian
Nina Auerbach and David Skal, *Drcula,* Norton Critical edition
Radu Florescu and Raymond McNally, *In Search of Dracula*
Leonard Wolf, *The Essential Dracula*
and many more
On 17/07/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yeah.. not chivalarous..
thats correct..provide here a critical reading here.. one you come across..
but polished, typifing the euro-aristocart (may be like Luckasc!!!:)
Chuliikad poem is about *malayali dracula*...
But the real malaylai draculas (not chullikkads) are very *
'chivalarous* *...pand nair like- doing yudham only in the morning
and eating heavily aftrenoon and with an embakkam snoring others to death*
and kottayam pushapnath has also a novel Drakulayaude Savamancham .
malayali draculas like *ada pradhman* made by renowned thrissur chef ambi
swami... than cold or hot blood
On 7/17/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are a number of critical readings of Bram Stoker's Dracula. However,
I am yet tocome across him as a chivalrous person - a polished,
intelligent, well-read and suave villain yes
The point of Kostova's book is that he is seen as a historical persona who
was on the side of christendom against the Ottomans (Crusades), while in her
novel itself christendom holds hands with a muslim turkey to defeat Vlad
Dracula!!
I have not read Chullikad's poem, but would definitely like to know more
On 17/07/2008, damodar prasad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kunhu,
{Shall I call like this, there is a sort of cuteness :) .
tell my name..
damodar prasad. it grinds like a rusted heavy machine of that old mavoor
rayons factory.:( }
. Ys.. I read the review.. Liked it.
Mnw, i cant clearly recollect.. this I read longtime back..
There is a critical reading of Bramstoker's dracula. The reading points
to the moment of dissection of Draculas' self to a blood thirsty one from
the chivalarous knght dracula. It crtical;y points to the 'westren
encounter' of the non-european world. Remaining things coming not easily to
the mnd now..
anyways, there is an interesting historical redaing of draculas' text..
not failing to remind of our own chullikad's Dracula poem. But am sure
some in this group defintely has read this.. Pls. do tell us about it
damodar
On 7/17/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A Guide to Bram Stoker's Dracula
**
That's what Elizabeth Kostova's novel *A Historian *can be rightly
described. The notes are extensive and Dracula has been historicised. The
Count is brought out of Bram Stoker's Transylvania and from the dark
corners
of the numerous Hollywood adaptations of the novel and placed in his
historic context - Vlad III, Vlad Tepes or Vlad Dracula.
Vlad, the ruler of Wallachia and Transylvania, has been an important peg
in the history of the resistance against Ottoman incursions. Supposedly
hostaged by his father to Sultan Mehmet as a young boy in exchange for a
ceasefire, he learnt extensively from his captors, particularly methods of
torture and employed them liberally in his later life as the ruler of
Wallachia and Transylvania, impaling his enemies and earning the epithet of
the *Impaler *for himself. Kostova provides the missing links in
Stoker's novel or rather provides defence against the criticisms of lack of
historicity of the novel.
The novel tells the story of a family of Historians and their friends
piecing together various fragments of evidences in a chase for the tomb of
Vlad Dracula, to destroy him – there are personal passions that drive each
of the protagonists on this macabre trail – for those with a taste for the
supernatural. The novel offers vignettes of a not-much-studied past for
those of us who are fascinated by either history or theology or the history
of theology. It is pieced together through oral narratives, letters between
lovers, parent and child and simple references to texts – a labyrinth of
love stories straddling the horrific.
But what makes the book beautiful is the way Kostova goes about this. In
the process of writing this novel, Kostova's characters, most of whom are
historians, bring history down from its pedestal of high culture and uses
credible subaltern sources like folklore without any hint of condescension,
navigating through texts with as much alacrity as superstitions and
personal
narratives. The text is replete with vampire stories from Romania, the
Balkans, Russia and Turkey and these stories act as the key to the search
for the tomb of Vlad Tepes III
In the process, Kostova dwells a lot on medieval Central European
History, particularly the skirmishes with the Ottoman Empire, and the role
of the Order of the Dragon (the word Dracul is supposed to be the Romanian
derivative for Dragon), careful enough not to take sides in the process of
telling the story. In fact as a masterstroke, she gets the protagonists to
ally with traditional rivals from the erstwhile Ottoman Empire
[GreenYouth] Re: These are the Directors available to IIT--Shame!!
Dear Venu Just to add on, I do not think any discourse on exclusion or marginalisation would be possible unless we take different categories of ascriptive disabilties as a whole. Manuvad is as much about caste as it is about a caste based patriarchy and in that sense universality of human rights would be rubbished by any ideology based on hegemonies and Manuvad is one of the best examples of such an ideology. As an example let us look at the notion of purity and physical disability within the varnashrama dharma or sexuality. I really am at a loss to understand how these discourses can be read separately - maybe it feeds into the hegemonising forces for us to read these separately In solidarity On 19/07/2008, venukm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Manuvad is a not only a real threat to this country, but it is also 'the' real threat! That its its proliferation as a binding ideology is not confined within the walls of IITs or elite Brahmins/UC premises makes the challenge far more difficult. Take, for example the way the universality of human rights and the politics of gender are being rubbished as outlandish and as anathema to our culture! Let's remember that the dictum of Manu prevails as much among dalit-bahujan masses as among the UCs, esp when it comes to the question of conceding to women a little more freedom let alone recognizing their status as persons, with rights to citizenship vis a vis,as wives,mothers,safe custodians of honour, objects of desire and what not.. When one speaks of caste, gender is kept at some distance and when you speak about gender, caste is kept off. Though I'm aware of the slightly mismatching content of this post under the present subject line, these words come to me s instantaneous as in a knee jerk response. No doubt,Manuvad is primarily about caste; but Manuvad is also not without a gender component that is deep- seatedly embedded along with the very structure of caste. Best, Venu. On 18 Jul, 08:29, ranju radha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indireshan, the former director of IIT Madras has been constantly engaging in such brahmanic war against Dalits/adivasis/bahujans. I read a piece wrotten by him in New Indian Express years back (in the context of OBC reservation) where he brings the real cultivators v/s parasite idea. for him the true cultivators are brahmins and the parasites the dalitbahujan. what a paradox. pity for poor manu and his fellow brahmin bujis who inventd graded caste inequalities and wht abt those who are graded as karshakathozhilalis by our great manuvadi CPI (M) marxists no wonder the world/word has lost its meaning when Indireshan's and Youth 4 Equalities start taklng abt it; or is it the other way around. seems so especially looking at the kind of responce it receives from media and upper caste world. mile to go ... On 7/18/08, Bobby Kunhu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is shocking to me is despite all claims of meritoriousness etc. the absolute lack of the basic skills needed to be heads of institutions, or even administrators - displayed by this evident lack of sensitivity - in this example retrogade views on caste as well HIV +ve people. Its time drastic action is contemplated like law suits on grounds of discrimination. This is not only the story of IITs but all the elite institutions in the country, be it IIMs, AIIMS, NLS - the story remains the same On 18/07/2008, Ranjit Ranjit [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Few days back Manuwadi director (former) of IIT Madras made a comment 'HRD minister has injected AIDS into IITs (Please visit this link for news http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Mumbai/HRD_minister_has_injected_A...) -- Ranjit -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: GAZA
of the friendship with Israel. Sure, our relations with Israel will yield lots of benefits to the nation. However, it is foolhardy to think that Israel will fight the war on our behalf. True, both India and Israel face existential threats from groups that share the exclusivist, annihilationist ideology of jihadism. But the similarities end there. The environs under which the two nations operate differ vastly. We will have to formulate our own course of action and fight our wars, alone. True, the friendship with Israel will yield both tactical and strategic advantages. But it is not a panacea for the scourge of jihadi terrorism. That some people oversell it doesn't mean the idea itself is without merit. 5) None of the above, however, means that India should do absolutely nothing about the Gaza situation. It should continue making strongly worded statements condemning the disproportionate use of force by Israel, urging it to minimize civilian casualties etc. After all, this is the best weapon in our arsenal which we use when jihadi terrorists from across the border land in our cities and butcher our citizens by the hundreds. We should spare our best and most effective weapon for our friends, the Palestinians too. 6) My suggestion that the Mumbai jihadists who attacked the Chabad Centre may have been motivated by anti-Semitic feelings made one gen'lman fly off the handle and suspect whether I was a neo-Nazi. Now the Journalist doubts whether I am a Zionist. I must be the sole living member of this rarest of the rare species - a la the Dodo of the Animal Crackers cartoon strip - Zionist Neo-Nazi! Anyways, my suggestion should have surprised nobody with a modicum of knowledge about the present day Middle East/Muslim societies - not the least those who claim to have read so much of 20th century history, forget Banu Qurayza, the Khaybar Jews, al-Jahiz, Sirhindi and the entire Medieval history. Now, you don't have to take the words of a Zionist Neo-Nazi like me, your beloved freedom fighters have themselves revealedhttp://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1218869pageid=0that the Jewish center was their prime, no-failure target. 7) I do not wish to enter into a lengthy debate about the Gaza invasion or the Israel-Arab conflict, because this is one topic on which a rational discussion with the Left is simply impossible (to be fair, not just the Left). Not that there are a lot many topics out there that can be rationally discussed with the Left anyways. I will just point out that the Eminent Journalists and Activists who are so eager to chant 'we are all Hamas' never bother to read the Hamas Charterhttp://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp. Nor do they notice such nuggets of annihilationist Jew hatred put up for public display on the organization's own website (while urging Muslims across the world to attack Jews): *…a Jewish adolescent boy in an Australian synagogue, a Jewish minister in the Georgian government, a Jewish businessman at the New York Stock Exchange, and an illiterate Jew from the Ethiopian desert… they all belong to the same gang and the same nation, apart from the rest of humanity.* (Oh yeah...they are only anti-Zionist, not anti-Semitic, aren't they?) No surprises here, however. They don't read the LeT charterhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashkar-e-Toibaeither. Cheers, Murali -- --- Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: GAZA
who is the left u r addressing Mr. Fascist 2009/1/17 Murali K Warier wari...@gmail.com My dear friend, Till now, you or anybody else who commented in this thread haven't addressed any of my points. No wonder of course, the Left's standard response is to attack the person -insinuations, vilification and denigration by association - rather than what he says. I understand your itch when you see opinions that do not conform to your worldview. But sorry buddy, there is no cure in medical science for that. Just a friendly suggestion, mate. If you really want to vilify me as a Muslim hater, you will have to come up with something more imaginative than 'neo-Nazi'. As I commented in another threadhttp://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth/browse_thread/thread/ad63d8e2e0d672d5/835afcff14a2091e?lnk=gstq=neo+nazis+love+islamists#835afcff14a2091e, the neo-Nazis love the Islamists, not hate them. Modern Islamist movement had very close ties with the paleo-Nazis. If anything, the Nazis were Islamophiles, not phobes. And yes, read up some history. Take the Eminent Journalist's help - though he has missed those pesky little details I just mentioned, he can still suggest some nice books on 20th century history. Cheers, Murali On Jan 15, 10:24 pm, Afthab Ellath aftha...@gmail.com wrote: There is of course a crucial difference between a Nazis and this Neo-Nazi... During the Nuremberg trials many Nazis did not deny their hate towards Jews and the crime they committed due to that hate.. But this war mongering neo-Nazi never felt ashamed of the denial of his muslim hate, while being itched 24 x 7 by it... Regards Afthab Ellath -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: India: Monuments Will Not Save The Dalits
that recruitment and promotion in the state police, particularly for the lower and middle ranks, are made after paying huge amounts in bribes. It is equally known that the officers, majority of them, soon start making good of the bribe they paid by demanding and accepting bribes. Similar state of apathy exists in state-run health centers. Government hospitals are understaffed and ill-equipped. In rural areas, public health service centers, commonly referred to as PHCs, remain closed mostly throughout the year, denying health services to the poor villagers. Schools are also equally understaffed. Several government schools remain closed or as good as non-functional, since the school buildings are no more safe to house the children. The poor in the villages mostly face the brunt of this administrative neglect. The state has a predominantly rural population, of which an estimated 11 percent is unaccounted due to caste prejudices and errors in the census data. The state is home for malnutrition, starvation, deaths from starvation, high rates of mortality and the prevalence of malnutrition-induced deceases. A high percentage of those who face this harsh reality in life are the members of the Dalit community. Almost 90 percent of the Dalits work as landless agricultural labourers. Yet, when the central government initiated discussions for a national land reforms policy and a law, the BSP was in the forefront to oppose the move. A national land reforms law with statutory limitations on individual and collective land holdings will help to improve the living condition of the poor. States like Kerala in India where such policies are in force since long, has proved that land reforms will not only reduce poverty, but has also the potential to end caste based discrimination. It is in this backdrop that Mayawati and the state government she leads is preparing for a state-wide celebration of Mayawati's 53rd birthday. Billions of Indian Rupees, estimated to be about 975 million USD, is projected to be spent for building monuments by the state administration in the coming years. The question is, would these monuments be later remembered for the glory of a Dalit leader or is to remain as the ghosts of her reckless administration? - Dr B.R. Ambedkar, Mahad Satyagraha Conference, December 25th , 1927 -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: GAZA
Aryan You meant weak No patience is right - there is no time for patienceMurali Warrier's ideas might have more predominance than most of ours what i find irritating about the way he engages, I have had this conversation privately with many friends, is the way he selectively abuses people and disappears - and there is a pattern to his responses for instance it changes according to damodar bobby or afthab 2009/1/18 aryakrishnan ramakrishnan aryakr...@gmail.com Find this discussion very funny and very week from my friends, with whom I agree on various points. A group attack on Murali Warier shows the impatience. One can ignore if his threads are not substantial. But your attack makes it more important. Why cant we deal with some one who doesnt share our ideas in a better way? Aryan On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 7:10 PM, bobby. kunhu bobby.ku...@gmail.com wrote: who is the left u r addressing Mr. Fascist 2009/1/17 Murali K Warier wari...@gmail.com My dear friend, Till now, you or anybody else who commented in this thread haven't addressed any of my points. No wonder of course, the Left's standard response is to attack the person -insinuations, vilification and denigration by association - rather than what he says. I understand your itch when you see opinions that do not conform to your worldview. But sorry buddy, there is no cure in medical science for that. Just a friendly suggestion, mate. If you really want to vilify me as a Muslim hater, you will have to come up with something more imaginative than 'neo-Nazi'. As I commented in another thread, the neo-Nazis love the Islamists, not hate them. Modern Islamist movement had very close ties with the paleo-Nazis. If anything, the Nazis were Islamophiles, not phobes. And yes, read up some history. Take the Eminent Journalist's help - though he has missed those pesky little details I just mentioned, he can still suggest some nice books on 20th century history. Cheers, Murali On Jan 15, 10:24 pm, Afthab Ellath aftha...@gmail.com wrote: There is of course a crucial difference between a Nazis and this Neo-Nazi... During the Nuremberg trials many Nazis did not deny their hate towards Jews and the crime they committed due to that hate.. But this war mongering neo-Nazi never felt ashamed of the denial of his muslim hate, while being itched 24 x 7 by it... Regards Afthab Ellath -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ -- Book Port, Ground floor, Kurian towers, Banerji road, , kochi , Kerala, India- 682 018 Email: bookportcoc...@gmail.com Phone: 0091 484-6530759, 0091 9746339846 www.bookport.in -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: lost my handset
-- Forwarded message -- From: bobby. kunhu bobby.ku...@gmail.com Date: 2009/1/18 Subject: lost my handset To: bobby. kunhu bobby.ku...@gmail.com please send me ur contact numbers -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Fwd: Delegation from Pakistan
am scared of thanking afthab this might be a sanitised group - i wonder what tales warrier boy takes back to other places i wish i had the energy to tracj this fascist I am also sure he will not respond on this thread 2009/1/18 Afthab Ellath aftha...@gmail.com How about asking the Pakistani government to hand over the terror organizers to India? How about dismantling the terror infrastructure, not just shutting down the front office temporarily? How about deporting Dawood Ibrahim? What about the terror organizers of Samjhota express blasts... Who will prepare the list of suspects and ask the other to handover? India or Pakistan? Or will the list be prepared jointly? Whom will be the list comprised of ? The madrassawallah green Jehadis or knickerwallah saffron Jehadis or both ? Uniformed men from ISI or from Indian military Intelligence or from both? But atleast at present there is no future prime minister in Pakistan who will express his/her sentiments openly towards the madrassawallah Jehadi in Pakistan.. But in India the oldman'ji' and his gang will shout, moan, shower flowers and declare bandhs when the knickerwallah Jehadis get arrested on terror charges... Warrier boy will not bother about the contradiction in the outcry for POTA when the suspect is with a skull cap and No Law when it is saffron clad... Unfortunately for those who has the slightest hopes in Indian democracy, this oldman is the former deputy prime minister and the future prime minister of India... This legacy and the bloodstained chapters of rath-yatra, which created communal riots throughout it routes, and his leading role in the demolition of a 400 year old mosque, will be forcefully erased from history and our memory when the young shining India boys in the media will carefully cut paste and prepare a wonderfully crafted mythical figure out of him when they welcome him to the prime minitership of India in the near future... Regards Afthab Ellath On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Murali K Warier wari...@gmail.comwrote: With all due respect to the learned academicians, may I ask one thing: whom are they kidding? Can they go beyond platitudes and motherhoods for some specifics? How about asking the Pakistani government to hand over the terror organizers to India? How about dismantling the terror infrastructure, not just shutting down the front office temporarily? How about deporting Dawood Ibrahim? I have a sneaking suspicion that the professors really know the truth: that asking the Pak government to take action against the Jihadists makes as much sense as asking the Third Reich to take action against the SS made in 1939. Cheers, Murali On Jan 13, 1:42 pm, Gouri Patwardhan gou...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: jawed naqvi jawedna...@gmail.com Date: Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:45 AM Subject: Fwd: Delegation To: Jawed Naqvi ja...@vsnl.com -- Forwarded message -- A quick note to let you know that I will be in Delhi as part of a Peace delegation led by Asma Jehangir and Imtiaz Alam. Arriving on the 21st of January, evening and leaving early on the 24th morning. Only two days to get our message across. Looking for help from friends like you [sorry for the shared email!!] We need support..with media coverage, with people from all walks of life to come to our meetings and lend their voices to combat the dogs of war. We have a common enemy. Shabnam Hashmi is co ordinating the events and meetings..please be in touch with her for details. And get the message out to as many friends as you can. We will be staying at the India Islamic Centre. Twenty five people in all from all walks of life. Hope you can do your bit! Love Salima Prof. Salima Hashmi, Dean, School of Visual Arts, Beaconhouse National University, 3 - C, Zafar Ali Road, Gulberg V, Lahore Phone: +92-42-5718260- 63 Fax :+92-42-5760254 www.bnu.edu.pk Windows Live™ Hotmail(R): Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. See how it works. -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: (SPN) Fantasising about FATA
but between Washington and Baitullah Mehsud. For Pakistan to have a say in it, the territory must be retaken by it. Thus, the question of violation of the national dignity and sovereignty of Pakistan does not even come up, as long as the area is under the occupation of the Taliban. The writer is a research fellow at the Centre for Interdisciplinary Gender Research, University of Oslo, and a member of Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy. Email: berge...@yahoo.com __._,_.___ Messages in this topic http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news/message/14400;_ylc=X3oDMTM3bXVhZGIyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRtc2dJZAMxNDQwMARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyMzQ4NDk5ODcEdHBjSWQDMTQ0MDA-( 1) Reply (via web post) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyY3ZnNThyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRtc2dJZAMxNDQwMARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEyMzQ4NDk5ODc-?act=replymessageNum=14400| Start a new topic http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZGZjbXJuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyMzQ4NDk5ODc- Messageshttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcTR1dG5jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNtc2dzBHN0aW1lAzEyMzQ4NDk5ODc-| Fileshttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJnY21kaThhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNmaWxlcwRzdGltZQMxMjM0ODQ5OTg3| Photoshttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMzdmbzB1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEyMzQ4NDk5ODc-| Databasehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOGNxbGQ2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNkYgRzdGltZQMxMjM0ODQ5OTg3 Socialist Pakistan News (SPN) is managed by supporters of Weekly Mazdoor Jeddojuhd and Labour Party Pakistan MARKETPLACE -- From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13reqe4lr/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835568/D=groups/S=1705444567:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1234857187/L=/B=5jeCJUPDhCk-/J=1234849987714754/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo.com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/ [image: Yahoo! Groups]http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYW9nN2IwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTIzNDg0OTk4Nw-- Change settings via the Webhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJnMnFtNmMyBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMjM0ODQ5OTg3(Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digestsocialist_pakistan_news-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=email+delivery:+Digest| Switch format to Traditionalsocialist_pakistan_news-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject=change+delivery+format:+Traditional Visit Your Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYnN1OHRmBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNocGYEc3RpbWUDMTIzNDg0OTk4Nw--| Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ | Unsubscribe socialist_pakistan_news-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject= Recent Activity - 43 New Membershttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJndmwzbHVqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjM0ODQ5OTg3 Visit Your Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socialist_pakistan_news;_ylc=X3oDMTJmM3VtNHFpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNDAyOTk1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTQ0NDU2NwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMzQ4NDk5ODc- Ads on Yahoo! Learn more now.http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13oveo406/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=groups/S=1705444567:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1234857187/L=/B=5zeCJUPDhCk-/J=1234849987714754/A=3848643/R=0/SIG=131q47hek/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2005cmp=Yahooctv=Groups4s=Ys2=s3=b=50 Reach customers searching for you. Y! Messenger PC-to-PC callshttp://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o1lp5nq/M=493064.12016274.12445679.8674578/D=groups/S=1705444567:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1234857187/L=/B=6DeCJUPDhCk-/J=1234849987714754/A=3848586/R=0/SIG=12dds2hov/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42403/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/feat_voice.php Call your friends worldwide - free! Health Groups for people over 40http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13odd39e8/M=493064.12662708.12980600.8674578/D=groups/S=1705444567:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1234857187/L=/B=6TeCJUPDhCk-/J=1234849987714754/A=5349273/R=0/SIG=11nhsqmjq/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/EverydayWellness/ Join people who are staying in shape. . __,_._,___ -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog
[GreenYouth] Valen-tine - Story behind the origin of Valentine's day
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[GreenYouth] Re: IIT or Agrahara (see the video)
: * Every text has an extra-textual context and no text has absolute meaning... Meaning and knowledge are historically and socially constructed...* exactly ! that is the point I looked it as a talking about knowledge only. it wasn't saffron clad at all. 2009/2/27 Afthab Ellath aftha...@gmail.com Aashiq, Every text has an extra-textual context and no text has absolute meaning... Meaning and knowledge are historically and socially constructed... Regards Afthab Ellath On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 3:58 PM, ashik salahudeen aash...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm . I was referring to the meaning of the shloka only. If you look only at where it came from , then this *could* be interpreted as not belonging to everyone. To make my point clear, consider this : What if they (or anyone) were to use only the english paraphrasing so as to remove any evidence of where it came from ? Will it be different then ? *May He protect both of us. May He nourish both of us. May we both acquire the capacity (to study and understand the scriptures). May our study be brilliant. May we not argue with each other.* -- The so called caste-hindus are bitterly opposed to the depressed class using a public tank not because they really believe that the water will be thereby spoiled or will evaporate but because they are afraid of losing their superiority of caste and of equality being established between the former and the latter. We are resorting to this satyagraha not becasue we believe that the water of this particular tank has any exceptional qualities, but to establish our natural rights as citizens and human beings. - Dr B.R. Ambedkar, Mahad Satyagraha Conference, December 25th , 1927 - Dr B.R. Ambedkar, Mahad Satyagraha Conference, December 25th , 1927 -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: IIT or Agrahara (see the video)
and also strongly endorse Fatima and Ranju's positions on the use of taliban as the bench mark for communal fascism why do not people come up with phrases like skull-cap clad RSS . This is not to exonerate taliban, but to highlight a tendency to get away with any terminology that re-inforces cultural fascism thats fashionable 2009/3/1 Bobby Kunhu bobby.ku...@gmail.com Just wanted to point out that the punishment for the Sudra (not an avarna mind you) for hearing the scripture was that molten lead would be poured into his ears (she would never even get to the place of recital) this is well-documented when that mythical transformation happened between the sruthis to the smritis 2009/3/1 ranju radha ranjura...@gmail.com fathima has rightly pointed out the ' political insensitivity' with which come up with to address atrocities of caste hindus. it was Pratibha Patil who always seen covering her head with a saree criticises the Burqua system.. the upper caste feminists who rallied for women's rights raking up the imrana issue, refused to see the Hindu fatwas invkd by caste HIndu panchayats agaiinst Dalit women... (Dalit body becomes the focus of all sorts of violence -- the caste hindu/indian state/ institutionalisation of patronising secular missions/ violence embedded in the self emancipated caste hindu selves our great modern eductional institutions have no shame in eologising the vedic barbaric era.. we r left with a nation of jhootan which the caste hindu self throws at u with an institutionlised mechanism of power-disguisd guilt On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Fathima Naeema naeem...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, Equating Saffron with Taliban is a political strategy of right wing Hindutva. It helps them to argue that India is a ‘peaceful’ (*santipurna *) state, *Saffrons* are ‘peace-loving’ (*santi*-*priya*) people and that the present run of violence are aberrations. I had raised this issue while responding to the discussion on Sreerama Sena's attack on pub-going girls in Mangalore. We need to engage with the violence of Taliban and Saffron differently and the trope of Taliban should not limit a more complex analysis to emerge. There are many other factors which made Afghan women more subject to violence than at any time before. Image of veiled women is enough for these people to show that Islam and its verities of forms are oppressive to women. They will never accommodate other secular reasons- militarization, social disintegration, intense poverty, drugs and endless war- to read violence against women in Afghanistan. Leaving all those factors aside will only help people like Ashik and Bobinson to formulate phrases such as Saffron clad Talibans and assume that violence in India is a foreign invention. Fathima Naeema On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 4:03 PM, ranju radha ranjura...@gmail.comwrote: is it so difficult ? the construction of excellnce and merit comes from this universal claim to knwledge. these meritorous people have been asking this question is it difficult? for long it can be explicated as : is it difficult to get killed/raped bz u hav shown the courage to live with dignity? is it diffucult to find another place to study bz u pollute IITs/IIMS/AIIMS? is it difficult ? etc. equating excellnce with brahminsm and its value system and extnding t to the realm of modern education... how cleverly and easily... they have made it and we r only left with the option to find out the meaning of words eventually endorsing their claim on knowledge. it was not at all difficult !! On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 6:41 PM, bobinson bobin...@gmail.com wrote: my point is look at the slokam as a a set of words talking about knowledge! And I found it very apt provided I am not provided with any proof to think that it was added there intentionally by the saffron gang to influence all areas of society as some claim their ultimate goal is. Thus, I don't see any problem in the usage of slokam there. 2009/2/27 Afthab Ellath aftha...@gmail.com Bobison, Frankly I don't know how to explain the exact point of this thread... What you aim by saying as saffron clad is not the very subject here, but the brahminical scriptures and/or their brahminical meaning... Regards Afthab Ellath On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:39 PM, bobinson bobin...@gmail.com wrote: I meant, if we look at something with a notion that everything is saffron clad we can see anything and everything that way. And since I was not looking or thinking that everything is saffron clad, I didn't see any harm in a slokam which talks about knowledge. But I am really outraged by your tom dick and harry comment...You exactly know which tom dick and harry were reciting it... sorry about that. Let me rephrase as: I have heard that scriptures were not written initially and if that is true anyone can over hear while someone is studying / reciting
[GreenYouth] another political initiative!!!!!
* * *SUNDAY-SPOTLiGHT: First National Convention of People's Politics Front *People's Politics Front (PPF) Lucknow, Uttar Pradesh [To read in Hindi Languagehttp://hindi-cns.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-post.html , click here http://hindi-cns.blogspot.com/2009/03/blog-post.html ] --- Dates: 5th and 6th March, 2009 People's Politics Front has been formed to build a political alternative in the country so that people's issues can be brought to center-stage and the dominant model of mainstream political parties which rely on muscle power, money power and unscrupulous ways for winning elections can be rejected. PPF is slowly but surely rising from its inception stage. It has been decided to organize the first annual convention of the Front in Lucknow on 5th and 6th March, 2009. You're cordially invited to attend this convention and contribute towards strengthening PPF. The venue of the convention will be as follows: 5th March, Public Meeting: Ganga Prasad Memorial Hall, Aminabad, Lucknow 6th March, Meeting of activists: Common Hall, B Block, Darul Shafa, opposite Vidhan Sabha, Lucknow Stay arrangements for outstation participants are also being made at the Common Hall, 'B' Block, Darul Shafa, the venue of the meeting on second day. *For more information, contact:* Arvind Murti, 9839835032 Keshav Chand, 9839883518 SR Darapuri, 9415164845 Dr Sandeep Pandey/ Arundhati Dhuru, Ph: 0522 2347365, M: 9415022772, email: ashaash...@yahoo.com -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] police brutality and legal responses?
It is with a heavy heart that I am writing this note and in response to a number of mails that I have got asking me to endorse the ongoing protests by lawyers in Tamil Nadu. What saddens me is that lawyer friends with strong moorings in Human Rights and have often gone out of their way in defending the people socially and politically shunned are also circulating these mails. Police brutality anywhere in the world has to be condemned - and there is not even an iota of doubt that most of this brutality goes on with impunity. And there may be no doubt that the Tamil nadu police acted with utmost impunity Having said that, I do not think people in glass houses should throw stones at others I also think, those circulating these mails should introspect a little The last few days has seen the police and lawyers being at logger heads and number of remand prisoners across tamil nadu facing the consequences. I do not have to remind my enlightened lawyer friends the socio-economic strata of society from where these under-trials come from. And given the claim of absolute brutality of the police, I wonder who would protect these poor souls from the police. Who are we kidding? The legal profession in India is perhaps the most non-transparent in terms of its functioning I would challenge any person to show me a simple court process in the trial court that can happen without a single instance of corruption. The profession has been riddled with castiesm and gender prejudice. Professional upward mobility in caste and gender terms is demonstrably most difficult in the legal profession - one just needs to do an audit of appointments to higher judiciary. But no, as the guardians of the Law, we will remain above the Cosntitution and the Law. We will roughshod and criticise every other isntitution while we remain feudal and head strong in our performance Jai Hind -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: No more Guantanamos
-922-8229 (US) or +55 21 2509 0368 (Brazil) If you have technical problems, please go to http://www.avaaz.org -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] ABVP competing with Shreeram Sena
Since that unholy alliance between Deve Gowda and BJP, one has been watching with worry the emergence of Karnataka as the next experimental base for the Sangh Parivar. I hope to write more on this soon. Anyways, Karnataka would be a more significant lab given its diversity and comparative cosmopolitanness and the site of the battle is once again the ownership of the woman, her body and choices. Todays Hindu reported this and unfiortunately this has escaped the attention of most of the messiahs of liberal thought And it might be noteworthy on how the Hindu has framed the issue as well http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/03/stories/2009030354850700.htm taka http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/03/22hdline.htm [image: Printer Friendly Page]http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=2009030354850700.htmdate=2009/03/03/prd=th; [image: Send this Article to a Friend]http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/pgemail.pl?date=2009/03/03/prd=th; * ABVP imposes ban on wearing burkhas in rural college in Karnataka *Sudipto Mondal PANJA VILLAGE/SULLIA TALUK: Muslim girls of the Government Composite Pre-University College here have been banned from wearing burkhas by local Hindutva outfits and the Bharatiya Janata Party-affiliated Akhil Bharathiya Vidyarthi Parishad. According to Lakshmisha Gobbalathadka, the self-proclaimed architect of the ban, the idea was first proposed to the college authorities at his behest by a few students affiliated to the ABVP in early January this year. “Four of my boys spoke to the college principal and demanded that Muslim girls be banned from wearing burkhas in classrooms,” said Mr. Gobbalathadka, who is also the district convener of a fringe outfit called Hindu Jagarana Vedike. “We agreed immediately. We did not want any trouble,” said a college official. But soon the demands began to grow. Emboldened by the support the boys received from a section of students, they went on to extend the ban to the entire 28-acre campus. Once the ban was formalised by the college authorities, a groups of boys took it upon themselves to impose it. “Every day, the boys sit at the tea stall near the college gate. If we take even one step into the college gate with the burkha on, they start scolding us,” said a 16-year-old class 10 student. Violence on campus Meanwhile, another controversy broke out on the campus after the ABVP alleged that a Muslim boy had made a proposal of marriage to a Hindu girl. “Our boys beat up the Muslim boy on February 28,” claimed Mr. Gobbalathadka. At the college’s development committee meeting on January 29, a large group of students, led by Mr. Gobbalathadka, barged in demanding that Muslim girls stop wearing the burkha even on their way to and from the college. The demand created a furore dividing committee members, according to college principal, Balasubramaniam. Soon, hundreds of activists entered the venue and physically attacked Muslim committee members and Hindus who opposed their demands. Following the incident, Mr. Gobbalathadka and his followers were arrested and remanded in judicial custody. Growing support “Many others have been inspired by the success we have had here. Soon, this campaign will spread to all government colleges in the region,” Mr. Gobbalathadka told *The Hindu*, and added that the garment would soon be banned from public spaces in the entire village of Panja. Panja gram panchayat president Rafique, who sustained injuries during the January 29 violence, said:* “Some may feel that the burkha is a symbol of oppression of women. Even if that is true, a resistance to the garment should come from within the community. How can we tolerate somebody using force to ban the burkha?”* Reacting to the issue, Deputy Director of Public Instruction C. Chame Gowda told *The Hindu*, “The college authorities might have agreed to the ban under pressure. But there is no law that prevents the burkha. Everybody has the right to practice their religious beliefs as long as it does not inconvenience others.” Deputy Commissioner V. Ponnuraj expressed concern over the developments and said he was still inquiring into the issue. “The rule of law and the Constitution will prevail,” he said. -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Lahore murder mystery
the crowd, and thought that for all our various theories, it was a point we could agree on. And then he finished, For poor people, everything is the same. Courtesy: NY Times -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: Mangalapuram/Mangalore: Urban Memories and Sexual Politics
-- Forwarded message -- From: Dileep Raj del...@gmail.com Date: 2009/3/6 Subject: Fwd: Mangalapuram/Mangalore: Urban Memories and Sexual Politics To: bookport bookp...@googlegroups.com -- Forwarded message -- From: Art, Resources Teaching i...@artscapeindia.org Date: Mar 6, 2009 9:21 AM Subject: Mangalapuram/Mangalore: Urban Memories and Sexual Politics To: ckme...@gmail.com, Dileep Raj del...@gmail.com Dear Meena and Dileep, Here is the emailer. Please forward to whomsoever you choose. Please click the display images option to view image. Thanks, Annapurna -- Art, Resources Teaching 79 Hutchins Road IInd Cross St Thomas Town, Bangalore 560 084 +91.80.2580.0733 i...@artscapeindia.orghttp://mc/compose?to=i...@artscapeindia.org www.artscapeindia.org -- Dileep Raj -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] one better than arnab/barkha
*Talking about humour - this came to me from a Pakistani * *JOKE OF THE DAY* Asif Zardari, Nawaz Sharif, Madhuri Dixit and Margaret Thatcher are traveling in a train. The train suddenly goes through a tunnel and it gets completely dark. Suddenly there is a kissing sound and then a slap! The train comes out of the tunnel. Thatcher and Zardari are sitting there looking perplexed. Nawaz is bent over holding his face, which is red from an apparent slap. All of them remain diplomatic and nobody says anything. Thatcher is thinking: These Pakistanis are all crazy after Madhuri. Nawaz must have tried to kiss her in the tunnel. Very proper that she slapped him Madhuri is thinking: Nawaz must have moved to kiss me, and kissed Margaret instead and got slapped. Nawaz is thinking: Damn! it, Zardari must have tried to kiss Madhuri, she thought it was me and slapped! me. Zardari is thinking: If this train goes through another tunnel, I could make another kissing sound and slap Nawaz again. [image: FunAndFunOnly (www.mails4u.net.tc)][image: FunAndFunOnly (www.mails4u.net.tc)][image: FunAndFunOnly (www.mails4u.net.tc)][image: FunAndFunOnly (www.mails4u.net.tc)] -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Coca Cola/Plachimada: An open rejoinder to Mr Shashi Tharoor (fwd)
take offence in the incident you narrated and your acceptance of the same. As a multilateral body the UN respects the multiple cultures, and if someone derogatively talked about a country’s traditional dress he should not have been on the UN staff any longer, if someone had set a norm like that it should have been brought to the attention of the concerned decision making body. UN events indeed are also the occasion you find the most fabulous traditional dress of women and men from west African nations, the various Arab traditional dresses from Morocco to Yemen, the elegant sheravni, sari and churidar from south Asia, and so on. I myself presided over a youth conference organized by Unesco/UNEP in Moscow in 1987 (part of Tbilisi+10) wearing a white cotton kurta/pyjama, and nobody cared about what I wore (I wouldn’t have allowed it either). And your sectarian mindset blamed the Punjabis for giving masculine names for their daughters, forgetting that what you have done with your own name isn’t anything different. Sasi is how the masculine name is spelt in Kerala while Shashi, the way you spell it, is a feminine name in north India! Your reply talks of the anti-Cola activists scoring some political point. No one can read any party politics in their letter, the Plachimada anti-Cola struggle is beyond divisions along party politics. The ruling LDF supports the Plachimada cause as much as the opposition UDF. And in the struggle itself you find people of all political affiliations and creeds. We are all one on the issue of justice, but you cannot perhaps understand that. But if you are talking about politics with your ambition to get a seat in the forthcoming Parliament election in view, I wish the Congress party gives you a ticket, for it deserves you. That will be a good self punishment for the Congress party for having allowed you once to embarrass the country with your UN election. Best regards S.Faizi Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/ -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Humanities conference in Thrissur
is not this fairly short notice for call for papers or because it is Gayathru Spivak as the keynote or thrissur as the venue - the call can happen offhand? 2009/3/7 Luisa Steur luisast...@yahoo.co.uk Fyi: A call for papers for a conference, 27 and 28 June 2009 in Thrissur: Call for Papers International Conference on Humanities in the 21st Century Rethinking Humanities in the Age of the Visual June 27 28, 2009 C PRACSIS, Thrissur, Kerala, India 680001 Keynote: Gayathri Chakrvorthy Spivak The conference, Rethinking Humanities attempts to interrogate how the future of humanities can be traced and interpreted from various academic and philosophical quarters, and the ways in which interdisciplinary endeavours in all realms of knowledge respond to this effort. It is widely accepted that Humanities in the academia has encountered unusually critical challenges in the last few decades. The question of how these challenges are transmitted through the corpus and the methodological and canonical framework of traditional Humanities will be pivotal in the making of the conference. The conference attempts in a broad manner to address the following issues: Contemporary interpretations of the crisis in humanities The genealogies of interdisciplinarity in humanities The historical contexts of evolution of humanities Humanities and Social Sciences Posthumanities and production of knowledge Humanities and artificial intelligence Theories of technoculture and Cyber space and humanities Humanities and globalization Humanities and visual culture Philosophy in 21 Cen. academia The theory and practice of the arts in the 21st century Art and aesthetics as disciplines Theatre studies and interdisciplinary approaches Performance and philosophy Technology and Humanities Art and Social Sciences Visual Arts and the Virtual Reality 20th century approaches to humanities The future of humanities in Asia The fact that one of the major paradigms which re-organized many disciplines, including social sciences in the last century was the paradigm of visual culture and this issue has been crucial in designing the theme of this conference. The age of the visual, with its alteration of the priorities of modernity and the privileging of the spectacle incites serious reconsideration of Humanities within the contexts of the cultural practices of 21st century. C PRACSIS invites papers for presentation in the proposed conference on 27 and 28 June 2009 at Thrissur, Kerala, India; on topics of similar wavelength. Kindly send the abstracts of the papers to direc...@cpracsis.org or to csbiju...@gmail.com on or before April 20, 2009. Information regarding the acceptance of the paper will be send within five days of the receipt of the abstract. Updates will be available soon in the C PRACSIS website cpracsis.org http://cpracsis.org/ . Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/secretariat/legal/disclaimer.htm -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: WHY LAWYERS REJECT SRI KRISHNA COMMISSION REPORT AS BIASED?
, Habibullah Badsha, both former Advocate Generals of the High Court, Madras, Mr.T.R.Rajagopolan, former Additional Advocate General, Mr.N.Natarajan and Mr.R.Gandhi, Senior Advocates met on 20.02.2009 and discussed the serious situation in the High Court and passed the following resolutions: We the senior members of the Madras Bar place on record our strongest disapproval of the atrocities committed by the Police, Swift Action Group and Commandos inside the Madras High Court premises on the 19th February 2009, brutally and indiscriminately attacking innocent lawyers, Court staff and general public and damaging public property as well as vehicles parked inside the campus. We condemn the atrocious act of the Police in even attacking the constitutional authorities – the Hon’ble Judges of the Madras High Court, as well as the Subordinate Judiciary, this interfering with the administration of judicial system. We demand the prompt and severe action to be taken against the Police officers, who issued directions to the Police to take aggressive action against the lawyers and the Police who unleashed a reign of terror within the High Court campus. Be all these as they may, two urgent issues need to be addressed – first, finding out what was the agenda behind this indiscriminate action and secondly, and more importantly, saving the all important institution of the High Court from the clutches of the police. -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Fwd: Amaresh Misra: The Battle of Azamgarh
to a man. In the post-Independence era, one of the first anti-Congress opposition party MLA was elected from Azamgarh. In the 1960s, when the notion of independent Muslim assertion was unheard of, Azamgarh was home to Muslim Majlis, a secular movement of Dalit-backward-Muslim elements started by Dr. Faridi of Lucknow. In the 1970s and 1980s, upwardly mobile and politically and socially conscious Azamgarhis began to move out—in Mumbai, Dubai, and the US, wherever they went, they built small businesses and prospered to a certain extent. Then they came back to their villages—in the 1990s, Azamgarhis decided to send their boys and girls to for higher education, especially to centers like Delhi. It was because of a desire for education that boys from Azamgarh rented houses and began staying in Okhla and the Jamia Nagar-Batala House area. At the same time the Delhi Police began to be fed with reports that a lot of Muslim boys from Azamgarh were settling down in the city. BJP UP circles viewed the social mobility of Muslims with envy and suspicion; during Advani’s tenure as the Home Minister, Azamgarh boys were screened regularly by the Delhi Police. After the 12th September 2008 Delhi blasts, there was immense pressure on the Delhi Police to do something. The department already had a ready data on Delhi based Azamgarh boys. Sajid and Atif, the victims of the Batala house episode, seemed to have been made the scapegoat, and Azamgarh the ready villain, by the Delhi Police. Only Ulemas could have countered this kind of a state terror. Indian Ulemas played a glorious role during the Indian freedom struggle. Hundreds and thousands died during 1857 wars. Then in the 20thcentury, Indian Ulemas opposed Jinnah’s two nation theory. After 1947, they went back to their*madrasas* and *khanqahas* (hospices). Now, 17 years after the Babari Masjid demolition, and 7 years after the Gujarat riots, they have again emerged for direct political action. In fact the Ulema Council has fielded 5 candidates from UP in the coming Parliamentary elections—in the days to come they will field more. Besides the BJP, the Ulema Council has rejected SP, BSP and the Congress for pursuing a negative brand of secular politics. Elsewhere in India too Muslims are forming secular parties under their leadership—Badruddin Ajmal’s Assam United Democratic Front (AUDF) is expanding to Maharashtra and Bengal. Kerala is witnessing the rise of the Popular Front. Even Jamaat-e-Islami is contemplating a secular political party. Muslims say that for 44 years they tried first, the upper caste Hindu secular leadership—and then after 1991 the Backward and Dalit Hindu secular forces. All three took them for a ride. Now the current mood is to take leadership in their own hands and forge alliances with different social forces and Hindu castes. The Indian (chiefly Hindu) political class should take note as to why this is happening—isn’t it true that the story of current Muslim assertion includes the recent history of betrayal by the Indian state of its own promises given to Muslims, written as law in the Indian constitution? -- Sukhia Sab Sansar Khaye Aur Soye Dukhia Sahib Kabir Jagey Aur Roye The world is 'happy', eating and sleeping The forlorn Kabir Sahib is awake and weeping Check out my blogs: www.madrasareforms.blogspot.com www.islampeaceandjustice.blogspot.com -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: Bobby's Malayalam debut
DP You forgot to mention N.P.Chekutty's favour in translating me initially that started me off on this project - hope to see the day when I can write Malayalam by myself Warmly 2009/3/11 damodar prasad damodar.pra...@gmail.com Hi, Please find attached Bobby Kunhu's Malayalam article on Gujarat laboratory published in Thejas daily. The article takes a up close look the conditions of minorities in Gujarat and also deconstructs the whole idea of Vibrant Gujarath. It seems Bobby is going to write regularly in Malayalam. d.prasad -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Ethical Lawyering
of India where such opinions could and should be voiced and advocated. Unless, of course in the glorious traditions of the freedom struggle the Bar as a body wants to express its loss of faith in the Cosntitutional system The boycott by the TN bar is akin to the absurdity of an Indian Medical or Dental Association passing a resolution that they would not treat patients unless the Indo-US Nuclear deal is not rescinded While I have scant respect for Subramanya Swamy as a politician or his opinions, there is no denying him his right to opinion or litigate. The best way to register protest against Swamy's views would and should be through constitutional mechanisms. In this regard, the Bar may have a lesson or two to learn from Tamil electorate 2009/3/12 damodar prasad damodar.pra...@gmail.com Bobby's another article in Thejas ( I think it is not Tejas but tHejas. I read it online.. No problem bcoz I am marked black long time back!!) Follow the link http://www.thejasnews.com/java-thejason/index.jsp#7562 Bobby, good writing. On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 7:23 PM, damodar prasad damodar.pra...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, Please find attached Bobby Kunhu's Malayalam article on Gujarat laboratory published in Thejas daily. The article takes a up close look the conditions of minorities in Gujarat and also deconstructs the whole idea of Vibrant Gujarath. It seems Bobby is going to write regularly in Malayalam. d.prasad -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: girl child marriage a serious concern: 45% of minor girls married
medical attention for babies. (Kounteya Sinha/Times of India/Delhi/11 March 09) - This newsletter distributed by Indian Committee of Youth Organizations (ICYO) Cynthia Stephen Independent Researcher and writer Bangalore, India -- Cynthia Stephen Independent Writer and Researcher And may you be blessed with the foolishness to think that you can make a difference in the world, so that you will do things which others tell you cannot be done Every budding dictatorship begins by muzzling the artists, because they're a mouthy lot and they don't line up and salute very easily. Margaret Atwood : Canadian Literary Icon. -- Ranjit -- The so called caste-hindus are bitterly opposed to the depressed class using a public tank not because they really believe that the water will be thereby spoiled or will evaporate but because they are afraid of losing their superiority of caste and of equality being established between the former and the latter. We are resorting to this satyagraha not becasue we believe that the water of this particular tank has any exceptional qualities, but to establish our natural rights as citizens and human beings. - Dr B.R. Ambedkar, Mahad Satyagraha Conference, December 25th , 1927 -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[GreenYouth] Re: girl child marriage a serious concern: 45% of minor girls married
I was just responding in terms of where the age comes from and not moralising. There has been number of debates and arguments on why 18 should be the age of consent. often times this norm' could violate the right to healthy sexuality and very often be abused too - not just in terms of physical abuse but also by moral police Another argument put forward is that under notions of citizenship, 18 is the permissible age to enter into a valid contract 2009/3/12 Anil M toan...@gmail.com My question is what if a 16 or 17 year old boy or girl want to get married or want to have a relationship? Is it just a minor issue ?? I guss they too have rights! I saw some newpaper reports in Delhi few weeks back.police catching the misssing Delhi kids from UPAccording to reports, some of them were in love and eloped from Delhibut since they were minors the Police could catch them and solve the case, and i imagine all were happy :) On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Bobby Kunhu bobby.ku...@gmail.comwrote: 18 is also the international standard adopted under the Convention for the Rights of the Child, which India has ratified 2009/3/12 ranju radha ranjura...@gmail.com govt categories are needed for adminstrative purposes it has its own radical value; its own emancipatory role... and i dont know why 18 years is the yardstick perhaps some eminent feminsts/scholars can answer such larger questions On Thuac, Mar 12, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Anil M toan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ranju Is there any reason for this 18 year yardstic? I mean this minor/major category? Or this another Sarkar category? On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Ranjit Ranjit ranjit.ran...@gmail.com wrote: Many of these girls are actually from the Dalit, Tribal and MBC groups, for obvious reasons *80 yrs since ban, 45% of girls still married off before 18* 48% Of Them Get Pregnant Before Attaining Majority: Survey New Delhi: Laws banning child marriages were introduced in the country in 1929 but 80 years down the line, the social ill continues to be as grave as ever. Nearly half the women in India are married off before they reach the legal age of 18, a joint Indo-American study announced in the medical journal ‘Lancet’ on Tuesday. After looking at data of 22,807 women aged 20-24 years, around 44.5% of these women were found to have got married before the age of 18. --- - *CHILD BRIDES * 22.6% girls married before 16, while 2.6% wedded before 13 48.4% of married girls have a child before they turn 18 37% of them did not use contraception before first baby They are seven times likelier to have more than three children Three times likelier to have a child again in less than 24 months They are also nearly 50% likelier to have an abortion --- - According to researchers specialising in social and behavioural sciences at Boston University School of Public Health (BUSPH), economic and educational reforms in India have failed to lower the prevalence of child marriages, fuelling risks of multiple unwanted pregnancies, their termination and sterilisations. Even worse, it has been found to be associated with poor fertility outcomes, such as unwanted and terminated pregnancies and repeat childbirths in less than 24 months. Lead author Dr Anita Raj, associate professor at BUSPH, said the study found that more than one in five — 22.6% — were married before age 16, while 2.6% were married before age 13. Women who married younger than 18 were significantly more likely to report no contraceptive use before their first childbirth. Nearly half — 48.4% — of women who were married as children reported giving birth before they turned 18. “These results suggest that neither recent progress in economic and women’s development, nor programmatic efforts to prevent child marriage and promote maternal and child health, have been sufficient to reduce the prevalence of child marriage in India,” Dr Raj said. The study found sterilisation rates were higher for women married as children than for those married as adults — 19.5% compared to 4.6%. Overall, more than one in eight women, or 13.4%. had been sterilised. Of those not sterilised, more than three-quarters reported no present contraception use. Child brides were also at greater risk of a fistula — a tear in the genital tract — as well as pregnancy complications and death and sickness as a result of childbirth. India introduced laws against child marriage in 1929 and set the legal age for marriage at 12 years. The legal age for marriage was increased to 18 years in 1978. The researchers said, “Women who had been child brides were 37% likelier not to have used contraception before their first child was born; seven times likelier to have three or more births; and three times likelier to have a repeat
[GreenYouth] Fwd: attacks on christains-booklet link
-- Forwarded message -- From: krishna vs vskvi...@gmail.com Date: 2009/3/19 Subject: attacks on christains-booklet link To: sowmyakrish.kida...@gmail.com, souparna.lah...@gmail.com, kanchiko...@gmail.com, msa...@sify.com, aseem shrivastava asee...@hotmail.com, asee...@yahoo.com, ashutosh_tripa...@med.unc.edu, Asif Shiekh asif_...@yahoo.com, a...@lw1.vsnl.net.in, Sameer Ashraf samk...@yahoo.com dear friends, pl hit the link below to acess the booklet-report titled*:from khandamal to karavali: the ugly face of sangh parivar.* pl also pass this link along to friends.. krishna (human rights forum) ph: 09440411899 http://www.humanrightsforum.org/reports.htm -- Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Green Youth Movement group. To post to this group, send email to greenyouth@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to greenyouth+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
