Re: Not too happy about the Norwegian translation effort.
Hi Olav, Nice to see you here! I'm one of the few others who have tried to help out with the gap in Norwegian translation, and probably responsible for some new inconsistencies as well, sorry for that. Being 100% consistent is very hard even having translation guidelines - without better tool support. There are several duplicate strings which need translation multiple times etc. So we could definitely need some experienced coordination and QA help here :) Unfortunately I have not been able to contribute much lately. -- Jan Høydahl, search solution architect Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com Solr Training - www.solrtraining.com 28. nov. 2012 kl. 19:46 skrev Olav Dahlum odah...@gmail.com: 2012/11/27 Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org On 26/11/2012 Olav Dahlum wrote: 2012/11/26 Andrea Pescetti I will need that at least you answer the question above, i.e., what you are not impressed about. Could you give us a link? http://www.openoffice.org/no/**- «mailing-liste», and «epost» (as stated in the latest Norwegian spell check) is used inconsistently. Other examples are «web-siden» instead of «nettstedet». Thank you very much for this clarification: so you weren't judging the current PROGRAM translation, since this is too new and not yet visible (the effort has been ongoing for a few weeks only) but the WEBSITE translation. The Norwegian pages on the website, aside from minor changes, are unchanged since 2011. No, I did point to what I've seen so far on the web page, but it gave some indications. Regarding the web page, there were a problem with my CVS access, and a Oracle employee who didn't like some of the content we published. Would you like to help fixing the errors you found in the Norwegian website? You don't need an account, let alone an ICLA: you can edit it directly following the instructions in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fvg1pfHLhE and your patch will be integrated in a reasonable time (say, 24 hours). Thanks, I'll look into it if no one else does. I see you have already had some constructive discussion with other Norwegian volunteers here. You are welcome to bring back your old team of translators too! And it would probably make sense to create a dedicated mailing list for Norwegian: if you find it interesting, just ask and we will create it (but we will need at least two e-mail addresses of people who will moderate it, i.e., reject spam). Hehe, well, I was a bit blunt, but we can work together. The old team might be a bit problematic to bring back due to their involvement in other projects, but it's not impossible when I put on the different hats. The mailing lists are not required at this stage, as the team can communicate otherwise. Users tend to use the forum, so it won't be required for them, but they do use social media. Regards, Andrea. -- Olav Dahlum PGP key ID: 0xA6BD1795
Re: Not too happy about the Norwegian translation effort.
Hi Olva, On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 07:20:04PM +0100, Olav Dahlum wrote: Hi. Keep in mind that I still own the copyright to most of the translation work I guess you signed a joint copyright assignment with Sun/Oracle, in one of its forms (JCA, SCA, OCA); otherwise a Sun employee like Rafaella would never have given you access to the server pootle. This means that you, as the author, hold copyright jointly with Oracle over the contribution you've made. As Oracle granted OpenOffice source code, including the translations, to the Apache Software Foundation, now the code is no longer under the umbrella a single corporation, but under the care of a non-profit, charitable organization made of volunteers (as a charitable organization the ASF does not pay for developers: only a few jobs that have to do with keeping the infrastructure working are payed, all other people here are volunteers, some being payed/sponsored by a company, some working in their free time). since Åpne kontorprogram på norsk jumped onto LibreOffice, and I'm not impressed by what I have seen so far. Could you please share your concerns? Any decline in the quality will not be tolerated by either me, Axel Bojer (since 2002), or any other person who have put a lot of time into the project. Please note that releases are voted here at Apache, and none will vote to release something that hasn't the quality OpenOffice users deserve. When I was told I needed to sign the ICLA, I was puzzled since I already was a well known contributor. You already signed a joint contribution assignment with Sun/Oracle, this is no longer under effect; any contribution made here at Apache must be under the Apache License v2.0. And as I couldn't due to technical reasons, it was never done. You simply have to fill this form http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt Sign it, scan it, and e-mail it to secret...@apache.org It's something rather simple. My Pootle account on the original server was also lost during the transition, a project people like Rafaella Braconi made available on the server after my request to do so. The Pootle server was not really migrated, that is, only the content was transfered, not the accounts inforamtion. In the current set up, only Apache Committers can have an account in the Pootle server. Non Apache committers are welcome to work off-line with the preferred translation tool. So before this really takes a wrong and unrecoverable turn, the control must be put back into my hands. We are simply volunteers, no one has the control, whatever this could mean. Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile La Plata, Argentina pgp2hIChLIt9t.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Not too happy about the Norwegian translation effort.
2012/11/26 Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.com Olav, On 12-11-26, at 13:20 , Olav Dahlum odah...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. Keep in mind that I still own the copyright to most of the translation work since Åpne kontorprogram på norsk jumped onto LibreOffice, and I'm not impressed by what I have seen so far. Any decline in the quality will not be tolerated by either me, Axel Bojer (since 2002), or any other person who have put a lot of time into the project. When I was told I needed to sign the ICLA, I was puzzled since I already was a well known contributor. And as I couldn't due to technical reasons, it was never done. My Pootle account on the original server was also lost during the transition, a project people like Rafaella Braconi made available on the server after my request to do so. So before this really takes a wrong and unrecoverable turn, the control must be put back into my hands. Any doubters can check this page: http://www.openoffice.org/no/translation.html, and my PGP key. I'm a little surprised by the tone of this message, though I suspect there is an issue with differences in language. But can you expand on the problem, please? Do keep in mind that we are interested in gathering talent, interest, work and that we are still transitioning from the developmental structure that Rafaella oversaw. I am sorry if my directness was misinterpreted as rudeness, but yes, the problem is related to the guide lines which have been put down from Skolelinux, trough OpenOffice.org, and pretty much every other FLOSS project which needed translation into Norwegian. Well, what I actually fear is something like the situation they have struggled with in Ubuntu, where translations have been pretty bad at times, and the fact that people didn't seem to be bothered by the low quality of their work. Yes, I'm still aware of the transitional phase, but remember that a lot of people have strong feelings about their work, and I'm one of them. Regards, Olav Dahlum -- Olav Dahlum PGP key ID: 0xA6BD1795 Thanks louis -- Olav Dahlum PGP key ID: 0xA6BD1795
Re: Not too happy about the Norwegian translation effort.
2012/11/26 Ariel Constenla-Haile arie...@apache.org Hi Olva, On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 07:20:04PM +0100, Olav Dahlum wrote: Hi. Keep in mind that I still own the copyright to most of the translation work I guess you signed a joint copyright assignment with Sun/Oracle, in one of its forms (JCA, SCA, OCA); otherwise a Sun employee like Rafaella would never have given you access to the server pootle. This means that you, as the author, hold copyright jointly with Oracle over the contribution you've made. As Oracle granted OpenOffice source code, including the translations, to the Apache Software Foundation, now the code is no longer under the umbrella a single corporation, but under the care of a non-profit, charitable organization made of volunteers (as a charitable organization the ASF does not pay for developers: only a few jobs that have to do with keeping the infrastructure working are payed, all other people here are volunteers, some being payed/sponsored by a company, some working in their free time). Sorry about my directness, but I usually don't do too much small talk in these situations. I didn't mention anything about money, just the bit about copyright, and possibly credit. Anyway, I didn't sign anything personally, if it was ever required. But it wasn't a problem for me, so it must have been some sort of prior agreement (the CLA) based on what you write. Keep in mind that I'm a volunteer as well, which incidentally was paid by the ÅKPN foundation to translate, and test the software at some point. Even if Pootle is notorious for stripping away file headers, one can't ignore prior work. Believe me, I have been accused of taking credit due to similar technical shortcomings. since Åpne kontorprogram på norsk jumped onto LibreOffice, and I'm not impressed by what I have seen so far. Could you please share your concerns? This might not be very useful to you, but ignoring things like this won't make the situation better: http://i18n.skolelinux.no/retningslinjer.html Any decline in the quality will not be tolerated by either me, Axel Bojer (since 2002), or any other person who have put a lot of time into the project. Please note that releases are voted here at Apache, and none will vote to release something that hasn't the quality OpenOffice users deserve. This is why I need to get some of the old timers back into the game, so they can be part of this process. When I was told I needed to sign the ICLA, I was puzzled since I already was a well known contributor. You already signed a joint contribution assignment with Sun/Oracle, this is no longer under effect; any contribution made here at Apache must be under the Apache License v2.0. Actually, I was encouraged to sign the The Apache Software Foundation Individual Contributor License Agreement (Agreement) V2.0. But the plan was to meet up with IBM first, and act upon that. Unfortunately, our contact left the firm. And as I couldn't due to technical reasons, it was never done. You simply have to fill this form http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt Sign it, scan it, and e-mail it to secret...@apache.org It's something rather simple. That was the point, I didn't have access to the equipment. I live mostly paper less. My Pootle account on the original server was also lost during the transition, a project people like Rafaella Braconi made available on the server after my request to do so. The Pootle server was not really migrated, that is, only the content was transfered, not the accounts inforamtion. In the current set up, only Apache Committers can have an account in the Pootle server. Non Apache committers are welcome to work off-line with the preferred translation tool. A bit hard to download the files when you can't. But if I actually do sign the ICLA now, it would mean no one could dispute my claims right? So before this really takes a wrong and unrecoverable turn, the control must be put back into my hands. We are simply volunteers, no one has the control, whatever this could mean. Let me put this differently. To avoid things getting out of control because people have little experience with translation, some sort of coordination is required. Regards -- Ariel Constenla-Haile La Plata, Argentina Again, sorry if anyone was offended. -- Olav Dahlum PGP key ID: 0xA6BD1795
Re: Not too happy about the Norwegian translation effort.
Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote: On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 07:20:04PM +0100, Olav Dahlum wrote: I'm not impressed by what I have seen so far. Could you please share your concerns? Hi Olav, nice to see you again here! Ariel gave you a very comprehensive answer, and several people here will be happy to help you and give you all details, but I will need that at least you answer the question above, i.e., what you are not impressed about. Could you give us a link? Any decline in the quality will not be tolerated by either me, Axel Bojer (since 2002), or any other person who have put a lot of time into the project. Please note that releases are voted here at Apache, and none will vote to release something that hasn't the quality OpenOffice users deserve. Indeed. Quality is a priority here at Apache. At the moment we have a small group of volunteers working on updating both Norwegian translations (nb and nn). I haven't seen their work so far. If you want to work with them, or to review their work, your help will be most welcome. For specific infomation, everything is in this list's archives http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/mailing-lists.html but just ask and we'll be happy to answer. My Pootle account on the original server was also lost during the transition The Pootle server was not really migrated, that is, only the content was transfered, not the accounts inforamtion. Yes, Pootle is not part of the transition. We currently work with offline PO files. You can find some information on the current process here: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/translate.html Regards, Andrea.
Re: Not too happy about the Norwegian translation effort.
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Olav Dahlum odah...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. Keep in mind that I still own the copyright to most of the translation work since Åpne kontorprogram på norsk jumped onto LibreOffice, and I'm not impressed by what I have seen so far. Any decline in the quality will not be tolerated by either me, Axel Bojer (since 2002), or any other person who have put a lot of time into the project. When I was told I needed to sign the ICLA, I was puzzled since I already was a well known contributor. And as I couldn't due to technical reasons, it was never done. My Pootle account on the original server was also lost during the transition, a project people like Rafaella Braconi made available on the server after my request to do so. So before this really takes a wrong and unrecoverable turn, the control must be put back into my hands. Any doubters can check this page: http://www.openoffice.org/no/translation.html, and my PGP key. Hi Olav, I am concerned about translation quality as well. One thing we did when OpenOffice came to Apache was stop the practice of releasing incomplete translations, or translations without a community to review the work. So we don't release until the UI is 100% translated. We would welcome your participation in the Norwegian Bokmål translation that is currently being worked on. I don't know who told you that you must sign an ICLA at Apache. This is not true. We welcome contributions from anyone, with or without an ICLA on file. An ICLA, however, is required for project committers, those who have direct write access to systems like our version control or Pootle. Non-Committers work on PO files off-line. Regards, -Rob Regards, Olav Dahlum -- Olav Dahlum PGP key ID: 0xA6BD1795
Re: Not too happy about the Norwegian translation effort.
2012/11/27 hauk142 hauk...@gmail.com Hello Olav. I am one of the few people working on the Bokmål translation, Hi there. Do you think I have been a bit harsh here? Your real name would be useful tough. -- Olav Dahlum PGP key ID: 0xA6BD1795
Re: Not too happy about the Norwegian translation effort.
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Olav Dahlum odah...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/11/27 hauk142 hauk...@gmail.com Sorry about that, I accidentally hit Send. Touchscreens and emails do not work too well together. :) As I said, I am one of the few people who are working on the Bokmål translation. As far as I am concerned, the UI part is done and the help files are well on their way. We are currently planning to look through the UI translations, hopefully to correct some, if not all, of the errors you have mentioned. We are aware of the fact that there are some bad translations in there. As for the general quality of the translation, I cannot say much, I joined this effort much too recently to comment on it. If you would like to join us in the translation, you'd be welcome to do so. Regards, Håkon. I will work together with you to fix what I couldn't do on my own, and the things we were discouraged from completing back in 2009. Are these Norwegian specific things? Or were they broader? -Rob -- Olav Dahlum PGP key ID: 0xA6BD1795
