Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On Thursday 18 June 2009 20:27:11 Dotan Cohen wrote: This choice only confuses users. What advantage does Atom give the user? Well, see for example this bug: https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=44899 Essentially, XML::Feed works the best if all feeds are Atom or all feeds are RSS. And there may be similar bugs in other programs. Two links - one to Atom and one to RSS, does not hurt. Most people are clueful enough to make a choice between them. And if they aren't, they probably won't enjoy my homesite. I could make a similar argument about some UAs not handling HTML 4.1 well, do you give them a choice of HTML 1.0 for your website? Well, these are very rare nowadays and need not be catered for. Most modern browsers can handle my XHTML 1.1 just fine, and I haven't heard any complaints yet. On the other hand, feed aggregators, handlers, and manglers that best use either RSS or Atom are pretty common. Atom has no advantage over RSS, it only serves to confuse users. I cannot wait to see it go the way of the blink tab. Atom has many advantages over RSS. See for example: http://blog.unto.net/work/on-rss-and-atom/ . And be careful with what you wish for. I know many sites and blog services that publicse link tags to both RSS and Atom. And each one confuses users. That's what you think. I am not convinced. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ What does Zionism mean? - http://xrl.us/bjn8u God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On Thursday 18 June 2009 18:46:37 Dotan Cohen wrote: I see. Well, in one case, it wasn't possible, because my account at the Technion's undergraduate students server got terminated without a redirect being set up after I graduated from the Technion. That's basa. Did you ask one of the Danys from Taub to reinstate the site for a a year? No, I didn't. I could try. In one case, I set up a redirect from http://perl-begin.berlios.de/ (which is still there) to http://perl-begin.org/ and still lost a lot of page rank (or at least it seemed to have been the case). Google makes it's decision based on a lot of things, but in a general sense a 301 redirect is accepted as the safe way to move a domain. OK. Yes, and I don't want bots to find anything on sf.org except for a link to www.shlomifish.org. As far as I'm concerned sf.org should not exist. Why not? What if I want to download your site to read offline on the train? If you try to download sf.org without following links to other hostnames, you'll get only one page, which should raise your suspicions. (You are testing the web-sites you download, right?). If you download http://www.shlomifish.org/ , you should get the whole enchilada. This is also the case for following links from sf.org to www.shlomifish.org. I personally don't download sites to read, but I tried to present a valid use case. Well, in that case, people can use a mirroring tool on http://www.shlomifish.org/ just fine. Everything they want is under there. If they point it at sf.org, they'll either get a single page, or alternatively follow the link to http://www.shlomifish.org/ which is what I want to happen. Either way, it is handled properly. What if some new search engine wants to rank you? He shouldn't rank sf.org. It only has a link to www.shlomifish.org and most links I know point to www.sf.org. I mentioned that because it appeared to me that you implied that the reason for your decision is to prevent bots from crawling the site. So? And what about the real malicious bots, that fake the IE UA anyway? What about them? The point being that your approach does nothing to stop malicious bots. So what do I care about those malicious bots? There's nothing of relevance on sf.org . They can go to every page they want there, and they won't find anything. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Stop Using MSIE - http://www.shlomifish.org/no-ie/ God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
I could make a similar argument about some UAs not handling HTML 4.1 well, do you give them a choice of HTML 1.0 for your website? Well, these are very rare nowadays and need not be catered for. Most modern browsers can handle my XHTML 1.1 just fine, and I haven't heard any complaints yet. On the other hand, feed aggregators, handlers, and manglers that best use either RSS or Atom are pretty common. Only for desktops. I have a non-tech site that now gets 8% of it's users on mobile devices! Other non-tech sites regularly see 5%. Atom has many advantages over RSS. See for example: http://blog.unto.net/work/on-rss-and-atom/ . And be careful with what you wish for. Then serve Atom! Get rid of the RSS! I know many sites and blog services that publicse link tags to both RSS and Atom. And each one confuses users. That's what you think. I am not convinced. I won't try to convince you. I've made my point, but the site is yours and I respect that. That's basa. Did you ask one of the Danys from Taub to reinstate the site for a a year? No, I didn't. I could try. I could run down there this week if you want. My Orange number is 054-788-1700. Tuesday is good for me. I personally don't download sites to read, but I tried to present a valid use case. Well, in that case, people can use a mirroring tool on http://www.shlomifish.org/ just fine. Everything they want is under there. If they point it at sf.org, they'll either get a single page, or alternatively follow the link to http://www.shlomifish.org/ which is what I want to happen. Either way, it is handled properly. Most tools don't cross subdomains, from what I understand. But I don't use them, so I could be wrong. I mentioned that because it appeared to me that you implied that the reason for your decision is to prevent bots from crawling the site. So? So bots are just as important as users. The point being that your approach does nothing to stop malicious bots. So what do I care about those malicious bots? There's nothing of relevance on sf.org . They can go to every page they want there, and they won't find anything. Very good. I mistakenly thought that the reason for your policies is that you were trying to block the bots. My misinterpretation, sorry. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On Monday 15 June 2009 21:04:00 Dotan Cohen wrote: It didn't help. Google eventually lost the page rank for the old domain before the redirect and I had to slowly regain it. The only thing that you could have done here was to make sure that there was a redirect long before the old domain went cold. I did. But it didn't help. Did you mean long after? No, long before. The old domain has to 301 to the new domain for some time (I think at least until google recalculates PR, usually every six months), and of course Google has to see it. I see. Well, in one case, it wasn't possible, because my account at the Technion's undergraduate students server got terminated without a redirect being set up after I graduated from the Technion. In one case, I set up a redirect from http://perl-begin.berlios.de/ (which is still there) to http://perl-begin.org/ and still lost a lot of page rank (or at least it seemed to have been the case). Yes, and I don't want bots to find anything on sf.org except for a link to www.shlomifish.org. As far as I'm concerned sf.org should not exist. Why not? What if I want to download your site to read offline on the train? If you try to download sf.org without following links to other hostnames, you'll get only one page, which should raise your suspicions. (You are testing the web-sites you download, right?). If you download http://www.shlomifish.org/ , you should get the whole enchilada. This is also the case for following links from sf.org to www.shlomifish.org. What if some new search engine wants to rank you? He shouldn't rank sf.org. It only has a link to www.shlomifish.org and most links I know point to www.sf.org. And what about the real malicious bots, that fake the IE UA anyway? What about them? Would you not complain if a site would not show the Firefox UA a page, instead making you forge the IE UA? Very good, and I see that you have an RSS feed as well. But get rid of the Atom feed! What is it there for? Do users really need to make that choice? Why don't you give them a choice of HTML 4.1 or XHTML 1.0 for the pages as well? Some people prefer Atom, and some clients only support RSS. Most people can make either choice reasonably (or they are not aware of the web-feeds technology at all). LiveJournal.com gives me both, so I point to both of them. This choice only confuses users. What advantage does Atom give the user? Well, see for example this bug: https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=44899 Essentially, XML::Feed works the best if all feeds are Atom or all feeds are RSS. And there may be similar bugs in other programs. Two links - one to Atom and one to RSS, does not hurt. Most people are clueful enough to make a choice between them. And if they aren't, they probably won't enjoy my homesite. I know many sites and blog services that publicse link tags to both RSS and Atom. No, you _don't_ want different content on www.sf.org as on sf.org! Either serve the same content (and thus have the pagerank divided between two pages) or 301 one to the other. I want only http://www.shlomifish.org/ to exist. I want nothing on sf.org, and so far it seems to work. I don't get many hits to sf.org. Then redirect it. People are going to link to it anyway, and people are going to type it into their browsers. If they type it into their browsers then they'll end up at a single link to www.shlomifish.org , which they can follow. And with the awesome bar of Firefox and similar browsers, typing shlomifish.org will suggest http://www.shlomifish.org/ (while only a portion is typed). I didn't notice any people linking to it. I believe most people copy-and-paste the link from their browsers after browsing to the appropriate site. I feel like we're arguing in circles, but it's still an interesting discussion. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ First stop for Perl beginners - http://perl-begin.org/ God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
I see. Well, in one case, it wasn't possible, because my account at the Technion's undergraduate students server got terminated without a redirect being set up after I graduated from the Technion. That's basa. Did you ask one of the Danys from Taub to reinstate the site for a a year? In one case, I set up a redirect from http://perl-begin.berlios.de/ (which is still there) to http://perl-begin.org/ and still lost a lot of page rank (or at least it seemed to have been the case). Google makes it's decision based on a lot of things, but in a general sense a 301 redirect is accepted as the safe way to move a domain. Yes, and I don't want bots to find anything on sf.org except for a link to www.shlomifish.org. As far as I'm concerned sf.org should not exist. Why not? What if I want to download your site to read offline on the train? If you try to download sf.org without following links to other hostnames, you'll get only one page, which should raise your suspicions. (You are testing the web-sites you download, right?). If you download http://www.shlomifish.org/ , you should get the whole enchilada. This is also the case for following links from sf.org to www.shlomifish.org. I personally don't download sites to read, but I tried to present a valid use case. What if some new search engine wants to rank you? He shouldn't rank sf.org. It only has a link to www.shlomifish.org and most links I know point to www.sf.org. I mentioned that because it appeared to me that you implied that the reason for your decision is to prevent bots from crawling the site. And what about the real malicious bots, that fake the IE UA anyway? What about them? The point being that your approach does nothing to stop malicious bots. This choice only confuses users. What advantage does Atom give the user? Well, see for example this bug: https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=44899 Essentially, XML::Feed works the best if all feeds are Atom or all feeds are RSS. And there may be similar bugs in other programs. Two links - one to Atom and one to RSS, does not hurt. Most people are clueful enough to make a choice between them. And if they aren't, they probably won't enjoy my homesite. I know many sites and blog services that publicse link tags to both RSS and Atom. No, you _don't_ want different content on www.sf.org as on sf.org! Either serve the same content (and thus have the pagerank divided between two pages) or 301 one to the other. I want only http://www.shlomifish.org/ to exist. I want nothing on sf.org, and so far it seems to work. I don't get many hits to sf.org. Then redirect it. People are going to link to it anyway, and people are going to type it into their browsers. If they type it into their browsers then they'll end up at a single link to www.shlomifish.org , which they can follow. And with the awesome bar of Firefox and similar browsers, typing shlomifish.org will suggest http://www.shlomifish.org/ (while only a portion is typed). I didn't notice any people linking to it. I believe most people copy-and-paste the link from their browsers after browsing to the appropriate site. I feel like we're arguing in circles, but it's still an interesting discussion. I did not even feel that we were arguing, just discussing. I am not pushing you to make a change to your site, but rather I want to understand your perspective and show you mine. I question your decisions to understand why they were made, not to change them. And I do find the subject interesting, like you, that's why we are discussing it! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
This choice only confuses users. What advantage does Atom give the user? Well, see for example this bug: https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=44899 Essentially, XML::Feed works the best if all feeds are Atom or all feeds are RSS. And there may be similar bugs in other programs. Two links - one to Atom and one to RSS, does not hurt. Most people are clueful enough to make a choice between them. And if they aren't, they probably won't enjoy my homesite. I could make a similar argument about some UAs not handling HTML 4.1 well, do you give them a choice of HTML 1.0 for your website? Atom has no advantage over RSS, it only serves to confuse users. I cannot wait to see it go the way of the blink tab. I know many sites and blog services that publicse link tags to both RSS and Atom. And each one confuses users. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:34:50 Dotan Cohen wrote:
Use a header 301 redirect only! It moves pagerank to the new page.
Don't use javascript or meta redirects.
I used Redirect permanent. No luck there.
Yes, that's a 301. What do you mean by no luck?
It didn't help. Google eventually lost the page rank for the old domain before
the redirect and I had to slowly regain it.
Well, I didn't measure type-in, but in May this year, I had 1,843 hits
for shlomifish.org vs. 400,203 hits for www.shlomifish.org. Most people
probably come to my site from links from other sites, so it should not be
a major concern.
That's almost two thousand people that you annoyed in May. Why? To
teach them something? To change their habits?
Not people - mostly bots:
{{{
64.34.195.145 - - [07/May/2009:07:12:18 +0300] GET / HTTP/1.1 200 694 -
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1; aggregator:Spinn3r (Spinn3r
3.0); http://spinn3r.com/robot) Gecko/20021130 VLOG=-
}}}
Most of the lines there are like this.
Right. I've played with the idea of setting up a blog on my domain, but
have neglected working on it, because it seems like too much maintenance.
I also couldn't find a blog engine that I liked.
Then port your livejournal RSS feed onto your sf.org domain.
I already have it included as the main page:
http://www.shlomifish.org/
With older items on the old news page:
http://www.shlomifish.org/old-news.html
I suppose I can also mirror the feed itself on http://www.shlomifish.org/ .
I'll implement this suggestion when I'm in the mood.
What do you mean by RSS pagerank? People linking to the URLs of the
RSS/web- feeds themselves?
Either that, or people adding them to Google Reader.
I see.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
--
-
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
What Makes Software Apps High Quality - http://xrl.us/bkeuk
God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we
read.
___
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Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
Yes, that's a 301. What do you mean by no luck?
It didn't help. Google eventually lost the page rank for the old domain before
the redirect and I had to slowly regain it.
The only thing that you could have done here was to make sure that
there was a redirect long before the old domain went cold.
Not people - mostly bots:
{{{
64.34.195.145 - - [07/May/2009:07:12:18 +0300] GET / HTTP/1.1 200 694 -
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1; aggregator:Spinn3r (Spinn3r
3.0); http://spinn3r.com/robot) Gecko/20021130 VLOG=-
}}}
Most of the lines there are like this.
Unless they get real annoying, I treat bots as users. At least they
are honest enough to not forge an IE UA.
Then port your livejournal RSS feed onto your sf.org domain.
I already have it included as the main page:
http://www.shlomifish.org/
With older items on the old news page:
http://www.shlomifish.org/old-news.html
Very good, and I see that you have an RSS feed as well. But get rid of
the Atom feed! What is it there for? Do users really need to make that
choice? Why don't you give them a choice of HTML 4.1 or XHTML 1.0 for
the pages as well?
I suppose I can also mirror the feed itself on http://www.shlomifish.org/ .
I'll implement this suggestion when I'm in the mood.
No, you _don't_ want different content on www.sf.org as on sf.org!
Either serve the same content (and thus have the pagerank divided
between two pages) or 301 one to the other.
--
Dotan Cohen
http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
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Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On Monday 15 June 2009 13:11:44 Dotan Cohen wrote:
Yes, that's a 301. What do you mean by no luck?
It didn't help. Google eventually lost the page rank for the old domain
before the redirect and I had to slowly regain it.
The only thing that you could have done here was to make sure that
there was a redirect long before the old domain went cold.
I did. But it didn't help. Did you mean long after?
Not people - mostly bots:
{{{
64.34.195.145 - - [07/May/2009:07:12:18 +0300] GET / HTTP/1.1 200 694
- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1; aggregator:Spinn3r
(Spinn3r 3.0); http://spinn3r.com/robot) Gecko/20021130 VLOG=-
}}}
Most of the lines there are like this.
Unless they get real annoying, I treat bots as users. At least they
are honest enough to not forge an IE UA.
Yes, and I don't want bots to find anything on sf.org except for a link to
www.shlomifish.org. As far as I'm concerned sf.org should not exist.
Then port your livejournal RSS feed onto your sf.org domain.
I already have it included as the main page:
http://www.shlomifish.org/
With older items on the old news page:
http://www.shlomifish.org/old-news.html
Very good, and I see that you have an RSS feed as well. But get rid of
the Atom feed! What is it there for? Do users really need to make that
choice? Why don't you give them a choice of HTML 4.1 or XHTML 1.0 for
the pages as well?
Some people prefer Atom, and some clients only support RSS. Most people can
make either choice reasonably (or they are not aware of the web-feeds
technology at all). LiveJournal.com gives me both, so I point to both of them.
I suppose I can also mirror the feed itself on http://www.shlomifish.org/
. I'll implement this suggestion when I'm in the mood.
No, you _don't_ want different content on www.sf.org as on sf.org!
Either serve the same content (and thus have the pagerank divided
between two pages) or 301 one to the other.
I want only http://www.shlomifish.org/ to exist. I want nothing on sf.org, and
so far it seems to work. I don't get many hits to sf.org.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
--
-
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Rethinking CPAN - http://xrl.us/bjn7p
God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we
read.
___
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Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il
http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
It didn't help. Google eventually lost the page rank for the old domain before the redirect and I had to slowly regain it. The only thing that you could have done here was to make sure that there was a redirect long before the old domain went cold. I did. But it didn't help. Did you mean long after? No, long before. The old domain has to 301 to the new domain for some time (I think at least until google recalculates PR, usually every six months), and of course Google has to see it. Yes, and I don't want bots to find anything on sf.org except for a link to www.shlomifish.org. As far as I'm concerned sf.org should not exist. Why not? What if I want to download your site to read offline on the train? What if some new search engine wants to rank you? And what about the real malicious bots, that fake the IE UA anyway? Would you not complain if a site would not show the Firefox UA a page, instead making you forge the IE UA? Very good, and I see that you have an RSS feed as well. But get rid of the Atom feed! What is it there for? Do users really need to make that choice? Why don't you give them a choice of HTML 4.1 or XHTML 1.0 for the pages as well? Some people prefer Atom, and some clients only support RSS. Most people can make either choice reasonably (or they are not aware of the web-feeds technology at all). LiveJournal.com gives me both, so I point to both of them. This choice only confuses users. What advantage does Atom give the user? No, you _don't_ want different content on www.sf.org as on sf.org! Either serve the same content (and thus have the pagerank divided between two pages) or 301 one to the other. I want only http://www.shlomifish.org/ to exist. I want nothing on sf.org, and so far it seems to work. I don't get many hits to sf.org. Then redirect it. People are going to link to it anyway, and people are going to type it into their browsers. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On Wednesday 10 June 2009 13:01:27 Dotan Cohen wrote: 1. I personally maintain my sites as mostly static HTML content that is generated from templates and uploaded to the site using rsync. If you're not using rsync or something - you should. See its -a option too. I use a ehader.inc and footer.inc file for consistent layout across the site, and include them with PHP. The rest of the page can be either static or dynamic, as per the need. That's not a bad solution. My template is more sophisticated than just including a static HTML header and footer, and also customises the navigation menu, the breadcrumbs trail, etc. based on the current location. So if you're under software/ then the Software sub-menu will be expanded. 2. Watch for spam. I told about a spam incident here: ++correct 4. Make sure all the important pages of the site (including features) contains links to the central pages with navigation menu, etc. That way, you'll have better page rank and people who stumble upon them will visit more pages. ++correct 5. I put a script on shlomifish.org (without the /) that just says that there's nothing there, and refers people to the link. Use an automatic redirect. You get the google benefit, without confusing users. Actually, I redirect www.* to * to keep the URL that much shorter. I had a lot of bad experience with Google and redirects. It doesn't seem to work very well. Besides, this is not a redirect. I don't want any links to shlomifish.org - only to http://www.shlomifish.org/ . As a result, I'm trying prevent people from linking to sf.org without the www. 6. Make sure you have a blog or otherwise feed of what's new on the site. Use a version control system or history tracker to announce the new items. RSS was designed for this. It does a great job. But don't give the user a choice between RSS 2.0, RSS 0.92, Atom *.* and twenty other feed types. Pick one, I don't care which. I maintain my web-site's blog on LiveJournal which takes care of generating web-feeds for me. There are other blog services, and you can always host your own blog using MovableType, WordPress, or whatever. Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Funny Anti-Terrorism Story - http://xrl.us/bjn7t God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
I use a ehader.inc and footer.inc file for consistent layout across
the site, and include them with PHP. The rest of the page can be
either static or dynamic, as per the need.
That's not a bad solution. My template is more sophisticated than just
including a static HTML header and footer, and also customises the navigation
menu, the breadcrumbs trail, etc. based on the current location. So if you're
under software/ then the Software sub-menu will be expanded.
Yes, my PHP includes are also slightly dynamic. Page titles and meta
tags, for instance, are written as per the needs of the page.
$title=Page title;
$description=Here I describe the page;
include_once/blah/header.inc;
Use an automatic redirect. You get the google benefit, without
confusing users. Actually, I redirect www.* to * to keep the URL that
much shorter.
I had a lot of bad experience with Google and redirects. It doesn't seem to
work very well.
Use a header 301 redirect only! It moves pagerank to the new page.
Don't use javascript or meta redirects.
This is in my .htaccess files for redirecting away from the www site:
# www.site.com to site.com
Options +FollowSymlinks
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}s%{HTTPS} ^www\.(.*)((s)on|s.*)$ [NC]
RewriteRule ^ http%3://%1%{REQUEST_URI} [L,R=301]
Or for individual pages:
redirect 301 /old.html http://domain.com/new.html
redirect 301 /olddirectory http://domain.com/newdirectory/
Besides, this is not a redirect. I don't want any links to shlomifish.org -
only to http://www.shlomifish.org/ . As a result, I'm trying prevent people
from linking to sf.org without the www.
Don't do that. Use 301 and let the pagerank bleed through. Enforcing
your rules by annoying the user will just stop him from linking to
you. Today, many users don't even think about www. On my most popular
sites, less than 5% of the type-in traffic has the www at the
beginning. That in contrast to the late nineties, when it was over
90%. Today's users are young, impatient, and do know know about or
care about conventions.
I maintain my web-site's blog on LiveJournal which takes care of generating
web-feeds for me. There are other blog services, and you can always host your
own blog using MovableType, WordPress, or whatever.
So long as it provides a simple XML format (such as RSS) it's good.
Google loves that! But maintaining it on a different domain
(livejournal) isn't helping your sf.org pagerank. By the way, I think
(but am not certain) that RSS pagerank affects the root site's
pagerank. I have not seen anyone else mention it, but experiments make
me believe that it is so. And just look how well these social-network
sites do, such as twitter, that have thousands of RSS feeds. It might
be a bug in google, or it might be intentional.
--
Dotan Cohen
http://what-is-what.com
http://gibberish.co.il
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Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:04:38 Dotan Cohen wrote:
I use a ehader.inc and footer.inc file for consistent layout across
the site, and include them with PHP. The rest of the page can be
either static or dynamic, as per the need.
That's not a bad solution. My template is more sophisticated than just
including a static HTML header and footer, and also customises the
navigation menu, the breadcrumbs trail, etc. based on the current
location. So if you're under software/ then the Software sub-menu will
be expanded.
Yes, my PHP includes are also slightly dynamic. Page titles and meta
tags, for instance, are written as per the needs of the page.
$title=Page title;
$description=Here I describe the page;
include_once/blah/header.inc;
OK.
Use an automatic redirect. You get the google benefit, without
confusing users. Actually, I redirect www.* to * to keep the URL that
much shorter.
I had a lot of bad experience with Google and redirects. It doesn't seem
to work very well.
Use a header 301 redirect only! It moves pagerank to the new page.
Don't use javascript or meta redirects.
I used Redirect permanent. No luck there.
This is in my .htaccess files for redirecting away from the www site:
# www.site.com to site.com
Options +FollowSymlinks
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}s%{HTTPS} ^www\.(.*)((s)on|s.*)$ [NC]
RewriteRule ^ http%3://%1%{REQUEST_URI} [L,R=301]
Or for individual pages:
redirect 301 /old.html http://domain.com/new.html
redirect 301 /olddirectory http://domain.com/newdirectory/
Thanks for the tip.
Besides, this is not a redirect. I don't want any links to shlomifish.org
- only to http://www.shlomifish.org/ . As a result, I'm trying prevent
people from linking to sf.org without the www.
Don't do that. Use 301 and let the pagerank bleed through. Enforcing
your rules by annoying the user will just stop him from linking to
you. Today, many users don't even think about www. On my most popular
sites, less than 5% of the type-in traffic has the www at the
beginning. That in contrast to the late nineties, when it was over
90%. Today's users are young, impatient, and do know know about or
care about conventions.
Well, I didn't measure type-in, but in May this year, I had 1,843 hits for
shlomifish.org vs. 400,203 hits for www.shlomifish.org. Most people probably
come to my site from links from other sites, so it should not be a major
concern.
I maintain my web-site's blog on LiveJournal which takes care of
generating web-feeds for me. There are other blog services, and you can
always host your own blog using MovableType, WordPress, or whatever.
So long as it provides a simple XML format (such as RSS) it's good.
Google loves that! But maintaining it on a different domain
(livejournal) isn't helping your sf.org pagerank.
Right. I've played with the idea of setting up a blog on my domain, but have
neglected working on it, because it seems like too much maintenance. I also
couldn't find a blog engine that I liked.
By the way, I think
(but am not certain) that RSS pagerank affects the root site's
What do you mean by RSS pagerank? People linking to the URLs of the RSS/web-
feeds themselves?
pagerank. I have not seen anyone else mention it, but experiments make
me believe that it is so. And just look how well these social-network
sites do, such as twitter, that have thousands of RSS feeds. It might
be a bug in google, or it might be intentional.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
--
-
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Understand what Open Source is - http://xrl.us/bjn82
God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we
read.
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Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
Use a header 301 redirect only! It moves pagerank to the new page. Don't use javascript or meta redirects. I used Redirect permanent. No luck there. Yes, that's a 301. What do you mean by no luck? Well, I didn't measure type-in, but in May this year, I had 1,843 hits for shlomifish.org vs. 400,203 hits for www.shlomifish.org. Most people probably come to my site from links from other sites, so it should not be a major concern. That's almost two thousand people that you annoyed in May. Why? To teach them something? To change their habits? Right. I've played with the idea of setting up a blog on my domain, but have neglected working on it, because it seems like too much maintenance. I also couldn't find a blog engine that I liked. Then port your livejournal RSS feed onto your sf.org domain. What do you mean by RSS pagerank? People linking to the URLs of the RSS/web- feeds themselves? Either that, or people adding them to Google Reader. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
hello, i guess i'll modify the site for a new URL and upload a new version over the weekend. in fact, i think i would better buy my own domain finally and move the site elsewhere. I believe it would be great and for the benefit of all to share tip and tricks lessons of building/upgrading a domain-based website nowadays. (even better: a lecture on this subject) DS ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On Wed, 2009-06-10 at 10:30 +0300, Dan Shimshoni wrote: hello, i guess i'll modify the site for a new URL and upload a new version over the weekend. in fact, i think i would better buy my own domain finally and move the site elsewhere. I believe it would be great and for the benefit of all to share tip and tricks lessons of building/upgrading a domain-based website nowadays. (even better: a lecture on this subject) DS Tip No. 1: Use separte entities for connecting you to the Internet, registering your domain name, hosting your Website and providing you with E-mail services. Tip No. 2: Have access to at least two independent E-mail providers (and for the hearies among you - have also phone provider independent from your ISP). --- Omer -- Kosher Cellphones (cellphones with blocked SMS, video and Internet) are menace to the deaf. They must be outlawed! (See also: http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2006/04/21/the-grave-danger-to-the-deaf-from-kosher-cellphones/ and http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/2007/02/04/rabbi-eliashiv-declared-war-on-the-deaf/) My own blog is at http://www.zak.co.il/tddpirate/ My opinions, as expressed in this E-mail message, are mine alone. They do not represent the official policy of any organization with which I may be affiliated in any way. WARNING TO SPAMMERS: at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On Jun 10, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Omer Zak wrote: Tip No. 1: Use separte entities for connecting you to the Internet, registering your domain name, hosting your Website and providing you with E-mail services. Tip No. 2: Have access to at least two independent E-mail providers (and for the hearies among you - have also phone provider independent from your ISP). Or more like the people I see posting messages on non technical mailing lists, 1. Buy a combination web hosting, ISP, email, on-line backup, voice line and cell phone package from the same company. 2. Demand that they charge you no more than any one of them alone would cost from a good provider. 3. If people actually do reach you to complain they can't access your service, tell them the fault is with their browser, their ISP, the network provider, they have a virus, etc. Geoff. -- geoffrey mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM Jerusalem Israel geoffreymendel...@gmail.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
I believe it would be great and for the benefit of all to share tip and tricks lessons of building/upgrading a domain-based website nowadays. (even better: a lecture on this subject) DS Here's all there is too it: Use links relative to the base url in you pages. That's it. If you really want a lecture, send to me your questions, and I will form a lecture for Haifux. I've been writing websites since 1999. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On Wednesday 10 June 2009 10:30:07 Dan Shimshoni wrote: hello, i guess i'll modify the site for a new URL and upload a new version over the weekend. in fact, i think i would better buy my own domain finally and move the site elsewhere. I believe it would be great and for the benefit of all to share tip and tricks lessons of building/upgrading a domain-based website nowadays. (even better: a lecture on this subject) I've been maintaining my own site on http://www.shlomifish.org/ for a while now. I also maintain some other sites: http://perl-begin.org/ , http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ , http://better-scm.berlios.de/ , etc. Here are some tips I can give: 1. I personally maintain my sites as mostly static HTML content that is generated from templates and uploaded to the site using rsync. If you're not using rsync or something - you should. See its -a option too. 2. Watch for spam. I told about a spam incident here: http://community.livejournal.com/shlomif_hsite/4145.html My pages were spammed despite the fact they were static. What happened was that a malicious script was run on the server, and inserted them there. I'm not sure, but it may have been due to an unused installation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YaBB So make sure you take the necessary arrangements to prevent and handle spam. 3. Thinking about it, I have a document explaining how to create a great personal homesite: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/web/create-a-great-personal- homesite/ http://xrl.us/bev87k There are other links there at the bottom. 4. Make sure all the important pages of the site (including features) contains links to the central pages with navigation menu, etc. That way, you'll have better page rank and people who stumble upon them will visit more pages. 5. I put a script on shlomifish.org (without the /) that just says that there's nothing there, and refers people to the link. 6. Make sure you have a blog or otherwise feed of what's new on the site. Use a version control system or history tracker to announce the new items. Regards, Shlomi Fish DS ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Funny Anti-Terrorism Story - http://xrl.us/bjn7t God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we read. ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
1. I personally maintain my sites as mostly static HTML content that is generated from templates and uploaded to the site using rsync. If you're not using rsync or something - you should. See its -a option too. I use a ehader.inc and footer.inc file for consistent layout across the site, and include them with PHP. The rest of the page can be either static or dynamic, as per the need. 2. Watch for spam. I told about a spam incident here: ++correct 4. Make sure all the important pages of the site (including features) contains links to the central pages with navigation menu, etc. That way, you'll have better page rank and people who stumble upon them will visit more pages. ++correct 5. I put a script on shlomifish.org (without the /) that just says that there's nothing there, and refers people to the link. Use an automatic redirect. You get the google benefit, without confusing users. Actually, I redirect www.* to * to keep the URL that much shorter. 6. Make sure you have a blog or otherwise feed of what's new on the site. Use a version control system or history tracker to announce the new items. RSS was designed for this. It does a great job. But don't give the user a choice between RSS 2.0, RSS 0.92, Atom *.* and twenty other feed types. Pick one, I don't care which. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
Oron Peled wrote: Good day (cross-posted, check when replying). A a previous customer of Actcom I continued with Bezeqint under the same terms (including a contract renewal ~1 year ago). Few days ago I accidentally discovered that my hosted homepage wasn't accessible -- further tests + ~1 hour on the phone (navigating through Bezeqint support structure) revealed the unbelievable THE FREAKING BASTARDS PULLED THE PLUG ON THE DOMAINS WITHOUT EVEN TELLING ANYBODY. I'm now in damage control mode (formal faxes to customer support, etc.) Anybody else? Are you sure your email still works? Shachar -- Shachar Shemesh Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd. http://www.lingnu.com ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
looks like www.actcom.co.il doesn't respond to requests any longer. users.actcom.co.il does respond to requests. it looks like this breaks my site as well, since i've used www.actcom.co.il in the links between my pages :0 i guess i'll modify the site for a new URL and upload a new version over the weekend. in fact, i think i would better buy my own domain finally and move the site elsewhere i've postponed this for more then a decade ;) --guy Oron Peled wrote: Good day (cross-posted, check when replying). A a previous customer of Actcom I continued with Bezeqint under the same terms (including a contract renewal ~1 year ago). Few days ago I accidentally discovered that my hosted homepage wasn't accessible -- further tests + ~1 hour on the phone (navigating through Bezeqint support structure) revealed the unbelievable THE FREAKING BASTARDS PULLED THE PLUG ON THE DOMAINS WITHOUT EVEN TELLING ANYBODY. I'm now in damage control mode (formal faxes to customer support, etc.) Anybody else? ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
Re: OT: Bezeqint made me poof... he's gone
On 09.06.2009 Shachar Shemesh wrote: Oron Peled wrote: ... Few days ago I accidentally discovered that my hosted homepage wasn't accessible -- further tests + ~1 hour on the phone (navigating through Bezeqint support structure) revealed the unbelievable THE FREAKING BASTARDS PULLED THE PLUG ON THE DOMAINS WITHOUT EVEN TELLING ANYBODY. I'm now in damage control mode (formal faxes to customer support, etc.) Anybody else? Are you sure your email still works? So far... ;-) Other interesting facts: Someone on the list mentioned that users.actcom.co.il/~oron is still there. I checked and it's and amazingly still there. But they left it as an isolated island: - The host users.actcom.co.il is not accessible (they probably just redirected some urls) - Who is allowed to crawl it? Nobody. $ wget -qO - http://users.actcom.co.il/robots.txt User-agent: * Disallow: / - The www.actcom.co.il is totally down with no redirection. which means many broken links. To be continued... -- Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492 o...@actcom.co.il http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron Debugging is at least twice as hard as writing the program in the first place. So if your code is as clever as you can possibly make it, then by definition you're not smart enough to debug it. -- Brian Kernighan ___ Linux-il mailing list Linux-il@cs.huji.ac.il http://mailman.cs.huji.ac.il/mailman/listinfo/linux-il
