Re: howto and faq
Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote: I am trying to get some order to linux raid info. Help appreciated :) The list description at http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-raid does list af FAQ, http://www.linuxdoc.org/FAQ/ Yes, that should be amended. Drop them a line about the FAQ too So our FAQ info is pretty out of date. I think it would be nice to have a wiki like we have for the Howto. This would mean that we have much better means to let new people make their mark, and avoid the problem that we have today with really outdated info. There seems to be no point in having separate wikis for the FAQ and HOWTO elements of documentation. Especially since a lot of FAQs are How do I... by definition the answer is a HOWTO. So can we put up a wiki somewhere for this, or should we just extend the wiki howto pages to also include a faq section? So just extend the existing wiki. For the howto, I have asked the VGER people to add info to our list description, that we have a wiki howto at http://linux-raid.osdl.org/ ta. I set the wiki up at osdl to ensure that if a bus hit me then Neil or others would have a rational and responsive organisation to go to to change ownership. I've been writing to some of the other FAQ/Doc organisations sporadically for over a year now and had no response from any of them. It's a very poor aspect of OSS... David - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-raid in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] Use new sb type
Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Jan 29 2008 18:08, Bill Davidsen wrote: IIRC there was a discussion a while back on renaming mdadm options (google Time to deprecate old RAID formats?) and the superblocks to emphasise the location and data structure. Would it be good to introduce the new names at the same time as changing the default format/on-disk-location? Yes, I suggested some layout names, as did a few other people, and a few changes to separate metadata type and position were discussed. BUT, changing the default layout, no matter how better it seems, is trumped by breaks existing setups and user practice. Layout names are a different matter from what the default sb type should be. Indeed they are. Or rather should be. However the current default sb includes a layout element. If the default sb is changed then it seems like an opportunity to detach the data format from the on-disk location. David - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-raid in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: when is a disk non-fresh?
Dexter Filmore wrote: On Friday 08 February 2008 00:22:36 Neil Brown wrote: On Thursday February 7, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 05 February 2008 03:02:00 Neil Brown wrote: On Monday February 4, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems the other topic wasn't quite clear... not necessarily. sometimes it helps to repeat your question. there is a lot of noise on the internet and somethings important things get missed... :-) Occasionally a disk is kicked for being non-fresh - what does this mean and what causes it? The 'event' count is too small. Every event that happens on an array causes the event count to be incremented. An 'event' here is any atomic action? Like write byte there or calc XOR? An 'event' is - switch from clean to dirty - switch from dirty to clean - a device fails - a spare finishes recovery things like that. Is there a glossary that explains dirty and such in detail? Not yet. http://linux-raid.osdl.org/index.php?title=Glossary David - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-raid in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: howto and faq
On Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 10:05:13AM +, David Greaves wrote: Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote: The list description at http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#linux-raid does list af FAQ, http://www.linuxdoc.org/FAQ/ Yes, that should be amended. Drop them a line about the FAQ too I will. So our FAQ info is pretty out of date. I think it would be nice to have a wiki like we have for the Howto. This would mean that we have much better means to let new people make their mark, and avoid the problem that we have today with really outdated info. There seems to be no point in having separate wikis for the FAQ and HOWTO elements of documentation. Especially since a lot of FAQs are How do I... by definition the answer is a HOWTO. So can we put up a wiki somewhere for this, or should we just extend the wiki howto pages to also include a faq section? So just extend the existing wiki. OK, so let's have a combined howto and faq. I would then like that to be reflected in the main page. I would rather that this be called Howto and FAQ - Linux raid than Main Page - Linux Raid. Is that possible? And then, how do we structure the pages? I think we need a new section for the FAQ. And then I would like a clearer statement on the relation between the linux-raid mailing list and the pages, right in the top of the main page. I set the wiki up at osdl to ensure that if a bus hit me then Neil or others would have a rational and responsive organisation to go to to change ownership. I've been writing to some of the other FAQ/Doc organisations sporadically for over a year now and had no response from any of them. It's a very poor aspect of OSS... Looks like a good move. I have had a look at other search engines, yahoo and msn. Our pages do show up within the 10 first hits for linux raid. So that is not that bad. Still, Google has the http://linux-raid.osdl.org/ page as number 127. That is very bad. Maybe something about it being referenced from wikipedia? Best regards Keld - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-raid in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] Use new sb type
On Feb 10 2008 10:34, David Greaves wrote: Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Jan 29 2008 18:08, Bill Davidsen wrote: IIRC there was a discussion a while back on renaming mdadm options (google Time to deprecate old RAID formats?) and the superblocks to emphasise the location and data structure. Would it be good to introduce the new names at the same time as changing the default format/on-disk-location? Yes, I suggested some layout names, as did a few other people, and a few changes to separate metadata type and position were discussed. BUT, changing the default layout, no matter how better it seems, is trumped by breaks existing setups and user practice. Layout names are a different matter from what the default sb type should be. Indeed they are. Or rather should be. However the current default sb includes a layout element. If the default sb is changed then it seems like an opportunity to detach the data format from the on-disk location. I do not see anything wrong by specifying the SB location as a metadata version. Why should not location be an element of the raid type? It's fine the way it is IMHO. (Just the default is not :) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-raid in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] Use new sb type
Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Feb 10 2008 10:34, David Greaves wrote: Jan Engelhardt wrote: On Jan 29 2008 18:08, Bill Davidsen wrote: IIRC there was a discussion a while back on renaming mdadm options (google Time to deprecate old RAID formats?) and the superblocks to emphasise the location and data structure. Would it be good to introduce the new names at the same time as changing the default format/on-disk-location? Yes, I suggested some layout names, as did a few other people, and a few changes to separate metadata type and position were discussed. BUT, changing the default layout, no matter how better it seems, is trumped by breaks existing setups and user practice. Layout names are a different matter from what the default sb type should be. Indeed they are. Or rather should be. However the current default sb includes a layout element. If the default sb is changed then it seems like an opportunity to detach the data format from the on-disk location. I do not see anything wrong by specifying the SB location as a metadata version. Why should not location be an element of the raid type? It's fine the way it is IMHO. (Just the default is not :) There was quite a discussion about it. For me the main argument is that for most people seeing superblock versions (even the manpage terminology is version and subversion) will correlate incremental versions with improvement. They will therefore see v1.2 as 'the latest and best'. We had our first 'in the wild' example just a few days ago. Feel free to argue that the manpage is clear on this - but as we know, not everyone reads the manpages in depth... It's misleading and I would submit that *if* Neil decides to change the default then changing the terminology at the same time would mean a single change that ushers in broader benefit. I acknowledge that I am only talking semantics - OTOH I think semantics can be a very important aspect of communication. David PS I would love to send a patch to mdadm in - I am currently being heavily nagged to sort out our house electrics and get lunch. It may happen though :) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-raid in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: [PATCH] Use new sb type
On Feb 10 2008 12:27, David Greaves wrote: I do not see anything wrong by specifying the SB location as a metadata version. Why should not location be an element of the raid type? It's fine the way it is IMHO. (Just the default is not :) There was quite a discussion about it. For me the main argument is that for most people seeing superblock versions (even the manpage terminology is version and subversion) will correlate incremental versions with improvement. They will therefore see v1.2 as 'the latest and best'. Feel free to argue that the manpage is clear on this - but as we know, not everyone reads the manpages in depth... That is indeed suboptimal (but I would not care since I know the implications of an SB at the front); Naming it [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] or so would address this. - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-raid in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: howto and faq
Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote: I would then like that to be reflected in the main page. I would rather that this be called Howto and FAQ - Linux raid than Main Page - Linux Raid. Is that possible? Just like C has a main() wiki's have a Main Page :) I guess it could be changed but I think it involves editing the Mediawiki config - maybe next time I'm in there... And then, how do we structure the pages? I think we need a new section for the FAQ. By all means create an FAQ page and link to answers or other relevant sections of the wiki. Bear in mind that this is a reference work and whilst it may contain tutorials the idea is that it contains (reasonably) authoritative information about the linux raid subsystem (linking to the source, kernel docs or man pages if that's more appropriate). And then I would like a clearer statement on the relation between the linux-raid mailing list and the pages, right in the top of the main page. The relationship is loose - the statement as it stands describes the current state of affairs. If Neil feels that he could or would like to help the case by declaring a more official relationship then that's his call. To be fair I work on these pages on and off as the mood takes me :) if I was Neil I'd be keeping an eye on it and waiting for the right level of community involvement. I have had a look at other search engines, yahoo and msn. Our pages do show up within the 10 first hits for linux raid. So that is not that bad. Still, Google has the http://linux-raid.osdl.org/ page as number 127. That is very bad. Maybe something about it being referenced from wikipedia? I'm not an expert at gaming the search engines - more than happy to do rational things like linking from Wikipedia and other reference sites. I am sad that I've had such a poor response from the other linux documentation sites... maybe a Slashdot article not so much about doc-rot but about the difficulty of combating doc-rot would help... Maybe they'd take more notice if I said the linux raid subsystem maintainer says... - dunno. David - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-raid in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Re: howto and faq
On Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 06:21:08PM +, David Greaves wrote: Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote: I would then like that to be reflected in the main page. I would rather that this be called Howto and FAQ - Linux raid than Main Page - Linux Raid. Is that possible? Just like C has a main() wiki's have a Main Page :) I guess it could be changed but I think it involves editing the Mediawiki config - maybe next time I'm in there... OK, good. And then, how do we structure the pages? I think we need a new section for the FAQ. By all means create an FAQ page and link to answers or other relevant sections of the wiki. Bear in mind that this is a reference work and whilst it may contain tutorials the idea is that it contains (reasonably) authoritative information about the linux raid subsystem (linking to the source, kernel docs or man pages if that's more appropriate). Yes, I will be conservative and robust in what I write there. And then I would like a clearer statement on the relation between the linux-raid mailing list and the pages, right in the top of the main page. The relationship is loose - the statement as it stands describes the current state of affairs. If Neil feels that he could or would like to help the case by declaring a more official relationship then that's his call. To be fair I work on these pages on and off as the mood takes me :) if I was Neil I'd be keeping an eye on it and waiting for the right level of community involvement. OK, I will only state something like the usual FAQ thing: please consult the FAQ before submitting questions to the list. I have had a look at other search engines, yahoo and msn. Our pages do show up within the 10 first hits for linux raid. So that is not that bad. Still, Google has the http://linux-raid.osdl.org/ page as number 127. That is very bad. Maybe something about it being referenced from wikipedia? I'm not an expert at gaming the search engines - more than happy to do rational things like linking from Wikipedia and other reference sites. I am sad that I've had such a poor response from the other linux documentation sites... maybe a Slashdot article not so much about doc-rot but about the difficulty of combating doc-rot would help... Maybe they'd take more notice if I said the linux raid subsystem maintainer says... - dunno. I think we should just contact some more people... And then do some linking ourselves. Best regards Keld - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line unsubscribe linux-raid in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
