Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
John == John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about a combox with this list of databases (and maybe a browse button near the combox?) John You mean in the first dialog? That would make the dialog pretty John confusing IMO... You are right, this is what happens when trying to give ideas without looking at the document! I think one problem (also with the citation dialog) is that it is designed to add several entries whereas in most cases only one entry is needed. I am not sure however how we could make a dialog that is easy for the common case but still allows the special case of several entries. It could be something like a combox to choose one bib database with a small + on the right. When clicking on +, a second combox appears below the first (with a + at the right to add another one, and a - to delete an entry). JMarc
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Abdelrazak == Abdelrazak Younes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Abdelrazak IMHO, the bibtex dialog should be accessible from the Abdelrazak citation dialog. For the matter, I think everything Abdelrazak related to citation should be accessible through the Abdelrazak citation dialog. I do not think a global setting needs to be accessible from a local inset. It is confusing. Abdelrazak Question: Is it possible to make a reference to a bibtex Abdelrazak element as well as a local bibliography element in the Abdelrazak same document? I don't think so. Abdelrazak I think a simple, case-insensitive, search-as-type is more Abdelrazak than enough and more intuitive. A more powerful search Abdelrazak tool dialog could be opened in need of advanced search Abdelrazak (via Ctr+F and/or a search button). Yes. JMarc
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes a écrit : Abdelrazak == Abdelrazak Younes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Abdelrazak IMHO, the bibtex dialog should be accessible from the Abdelrazak citation dialog. For the matter, I think everything Abdelrazak related to citation should be accessible through the Abdelrazak citation dialog. I do not think a global setting needs to be accessible from a local inset. It is confusing. So should we put the handling of multiple bibtex database in the document settings dialog instead? Abdelrazak Question: Is it possible to make a reference to a bibtex Abdelrazak element as well as a local bibliography element in the Abdelrazak same document? I don't think so. IMHO, this is bad. Imagine you have a document with some bibliography elements already inside. If you want to refer to an element inside a bibtex database you have first to convert all your biblio elements first? Abdelrazak I think a simple, case-insensitive, search-as-type is more Abdelrazak than enough and more intuitive. A more powerful search Abdelrazak tool dialog could be opened in need of advanced search Abdelrazak (via Ctr+F and/or a search button). Yes. This is in my long-long todo list then. Maybe next Christmas :-) Abdel.
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
It could be something like a combox to choose one bib database with a small + on the right. When clicking on +, a second combox appears below the first (with a + at the right to add another one, and a - to delete an entry). what is wrong with a simple dialog + an add... push button that pops up a filedialog? who cares if you need to traverse a couple of directories to find the bib file? the point here is that adding the bibtex ref is a one time affair (usually) and not a recurrent task when working on a document. i think that there is no point in being too smart here at the cost of loosing simplicity/transparency. at the moment: 1. insert-LIST/TOCBibtex Bib 2. click add.. 3. click browse 3. go to .bib location 4. click OK 5. select bibtex database in listbox 6. click Add 7. click OK or (but never for me though and i wonder how often for most users) 1. insert-LIST/TOCBibtex Bib 2. click add.. 3. select bibtex database in listbox 4. click Add 5. click OK plus the nuisance of extra dialogs with a simple add... button plus filedialog: 1. insert-LIST/TOCBibtex Bib 2. click add.. 3. go to .bib location 4. click OK 5. click OK simple solutions are so much better edwin
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Abdelrazak == Abdelrazak Younes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Abdelrazak So should we put the handling of multiple bibtex database Abdelrazak in the document settings dialog instead? It would be correct in some sense, but the fact is that the place where you insert the bibtex database is the point where the biblio appears in the document. So the information is local. Abdelrazak IMHO, this is bad. Imagine you have a document with some Abdelrazak bibliography elements already inside. If you want to refer Abdelrazak to an element inside a bibtex database you have first to Abdelrazak convert all your biblio elements first? That is how it works. JMarc
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. wrote: what is wrong with a simple dialog + an add... push button that pops up a filedialog? who cares if you need to traverse a couple of directories to find the bib file? That is not the main problem IMHO. The main problem is that LyX is currently smart enough to find all .bib files that are available somewhere in the texmf tree. I certainly don't want to enter the full path to a .bib file that I put in my texmf tree in order to be accessible without path. Please consider this when making changes to the bibtex dialog. Georg
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Georg Baum a écrit : Leuven, E. wrote: what is wrong with a simple dialog + an add... push button that pops up a filedialog? who cares if you need to traverse a couple of directories to find the bib file? That is not the main problem IMHO. The main problem is that LyX is currently smart enough to find all .bib files that are available somewhere in the texmf tree. I certainly don't want to enter the full path to a .bib file that I put in my texmf tree in order to be accessible without path. Please consider this when making changes to the bibtex dialog. An idea: Why not provide this list just below the delete button (or above a lowered Add button), there is enough place and you will have the best of both world. Abdel.
RE: RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
That is not the main problem IMHO. The main problem is that LyX is currently smart enough to find all .bib files that are available somewhere in the texmf tree. I certainly don't want to enter the full path to a .bib file that I put in my texmf tree in order to be accessible without path. Please consider this when making changes to the bibtex dialog. i wonder how many users have the .bib file in the texmf tree in fact, i wonder how many users now what a texmf tree is. actually, *i* wouldn't know where to put it. i have it in a directory (bib) in my homedir, and (2 clicks away) i carry it around on my usb stick... atm i get the choice of the following bibtex databases: amsxport-options mrabbrev plbib test xampl i have no clue what they are, and am not sure i want to see them of course we can be smart (for how many people?), but there is a cost: a more complicated user interface which might even be perceived as confusing. edwin
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. wrote: what is wrong with a simple dialog + an add... push button that pops up a filedialog? who cares if you need to traverse a couple of directories to find the bib file? As Georg wrote, it is conceptually wrong, since LaTeX has a PATH for bibtex files. I admit that lots of people do not add their bibtex files there, but it should be possible nonetheless to select a file from there without entering the whole path. Think of a document that is used on different machines that have different TeX setups. Moreover, I'd like to educate the users to put their files in the path. And I want to have that list immediately, because I always put my bibfiles there. That's probably because I'm working with quite large bibtex files that are used over and over again in articles and books. But that's mainly what bibtex was designed for, wasn't it? Jürgen
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
shortcut to the root directory of the bibtex bib tree in the filedialog + stripping of directories if the database is located there would solve some of these problems? edwin -Original Message- From: Juergen Spitzmueller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 20-Mar-06 11:39 To: lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Subject: Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog Leuven, E. wrote: what is wrong with a simple dialog + an add... push button that pops up a filedialog? who cares if you need to traverse a couple of directories to find the bib file? As Georg wrote, it is conceptually wrong, since LaTeX has a PATH for bibtex files. I admit that lots of people do not add their bibtex files there, but it should be possible nonetheless to select a file from there without entering the whole path. Think of a document that is used on different machines that have different TeX setups. Moreover, I'd like to educate the users to put their files in the path. And I want to have that list immediately, because I always put my bibfiles there. That's probably because I'm working with quite large bibtex files that are used over and over again in articles and books. But that's mainly what bibtex was designed for, wasn't it? Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. a écrit : shortcut to the root directory of the bibtex bib tree in the filedialog + stripping of directories if the database is located there would solve some of these problems? This is a good compromise IMHO. And it would educate the user at where to put these bib file in the first place. Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Also sprach Leuven, E.: shortcut to the root directory of the bibtex bib tree in the filedialog + stripping of directories if the database is located there would solve some of these problems? No. I don't want to browse there. I want to select my files instantly. LaTeX provides the feature of searching the paths for me, and I want to use that. I have divided my bibliography into several small pieces (thematically). I have about 15 bib databases with ~4000 entries in my path. Usually, I don't chose one, but several of them for a document, depending on the topic. I don't want to browse through the dirs everytime. I really don't understand why you insist on remving a functionality, just because you don't need it personally. I never used browsing for bib files, but I would never vote for removing it. I think the best solution is probably, as Abdel recommended, to have two buttons instead of one in the bibtex dialog: Browse (through directory) and Select (from the bst file list). Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Abdelrazak Younes wrote: shortcut to the root directory of the bibtex bib tree in the filedialog + stripping of directories if the database is located there would solve some of these problems? This is a good compromise IMHO. And it would educate the user at where to put these bib file in the first place. but the good thing is that you can have several different directories in the path, at least a personal and a global one, but also (as I do) different ones for different topics. Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Juergen Spitzmueller a écrit : Abdelrazak Younes wrote: shortcut to the root directory of the bibtex bib tree in the filedialog + stripping of directories if the database is located there would solve some of these problems? This is a good compromise IMHO. And it would educate the user at where to put these bib file in the first place. but the good thing is that you can have several different directories in the path, at least a personal and a global one, but also (as I do) different ones for different topics. OK, I'll shut up. I obviously don't know what I am takking about :-) Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 12:12:06PM +0100, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: I think the best solution is probably, as Abdel recommended, to have two buttons instead of one in the bibtex dialog: Browse (through directory) and Select (from the bst file list). It's too confusing. How about a multi-selection list box showing all the found bibtex's by default. A Browse... button would do the browsing: Databases * -- |*foo** /\ | Browse... | | bar || |*baz***|| ... . .... | \/ -- regards john
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
How about a multi-selection list box showing all the found bibtex's by default. A Browse... button would do the browsing: so this gets rid of the 2nd dialog and shows in the list box the databases that are selected i like this much better (would checkboxes be clearer than highlighted items?)
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
John Levon a écrit : On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 12:12:06PM +0100, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: I think the best solution is probably, as Abdel recommended, to have two buttons instead of one in the bibtex dialog: Browse (through directory) and Select (from the bst file list). It's too confusing. How about a multi-selection list box showing all the found bibtex's by default. A Browse... button would do the browsing: Hum that's exactly what I proposed ;-) Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 01:45:47PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: How about a multi-selection list box showing all the found bibtex's by default. A Browse... button would do the browsing: i like this much better (would checkboxes be clearer than highlighted items?) I don't think so no. Now we just have to deal with the much harder citation dialog :) regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
John Levon wrote: It's too confusing. people would get used to it. How about a multi-selection list box showing all the found bibtex's by default. A Browse... button would do the browsing I hate to be a PITA, but I'm not convinced. Look, I have currently more than 100 bib files in that list (lots from the TeXLive distribution, and my own). Checking which one are selected would be difficult. There must be a solution where only the selected databases are visible (I would be fine with a show only selected toggle or somesuch). Jürgen
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
I hate to be a PITA, sure ;-) but I'm not convinced. Look, I have currently more than 100 bib files in that list (lots from the TeXLive distribution, and my own). and you care about all 100? sound like an exceptional situation Checking which one are selected would be difficult. There must be a solution where only the selected databases are visible (I would be fine with a show only selected toggle or somesuch). what about having *two* buttons on the 1st dialog 1. browse... 2. add from list where the first directly pops up a filedialog and the second the add dialog that we have now ?
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:10:13PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: Checking which one are selected would be difficult. There must be a solution where only the selected databases are visible (I would be fine with a show only selected toggle or somesuch). what about having *two* buttons on the 1st dialog 1. browse... 2. add from list where the first directly pops up a filedialog and the second the add dialog that we have now This sounds worse than it is now... regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Also sprach Leuven, E.: and you care about all 100? No. But the list of those I care about is evergrowing. sound like an exceptional situation Not exceptional for people that use a full TeXLive installation (quite a few I guess). Checking which one are selected would be difficult. There must be a solution where only the selected databases are visible (I would be fine with a show only selected toggle or somesuch). what about having *two* buttons on the 1st dialog 1. browse... 2. add from list where the first directly pops up a filedialog and the second the add dialog that we have now That's what I proposed as well. I think it would serve both of us best. However, John disagrees. Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
John Levon wrote: This sounds worse than it is now... Why actually? Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:40:27PM +0100, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: I hate to be a PITA, but I'm not convinced. Look, I have currently more than 100 bib files in that list (lots from the TeXLive distribution, and my own). Checking which one are selected would be difficult. There must be a solution where only the selected databases are visible (I would be fine with a show only selected toggle or somesuch). A toggle is no good... you know, it doesn't seem like any solution is going to be significantly better than what we have now. So I wonder if it's worth the disruption at all. regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:21:17PM +0100, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: John Levon wrote: This sounds worse than it is now... Why actually? You can't easily make the decision on which button to press until after you've pressed it and found out. regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
John Levon wrote: You can't easily make the decision on which button to press until after you've pressed it and found out. This is until you have tried it two times, then you know. With the current solution, you are forced to hit two buttons to get to the file dialog every time. Knowledge doesn't help you anything. Also, we have tooltips. I know, I'm speaking from a strictly subjective position. I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. Jürgen
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
With the current solution, you are forced to hit two buttons to get to the file dialog every time. and after that you need to select the database from a list and add it the learning curve with 2 buttons doesn't seem very steep to me
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:27:00PM +0100, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: You can't easily make the decision on which button to press until after you've pressed it and found out. This is until you have tried it two times, then you know. You mean you've somehow memorised whether the database you want is on the list? I'm not talking about what the buttons *do*, I'm talking about the *contents* you get. With the current solution, you are forced to hit two buttons to get to the file dialog every time. Knowledge doesn't help you anything. It's certainly not ideal. regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Also sprach John Levon: This is until you have tried it two times, then you know. You mean you've somehow memorised whether the database you want is on the list? Sure. I know that I need the list only, because I use BIBINPUTS. But I talked about the knowledge of what the buttons do. After all, you also need to memorize the location of a database if you need to browse for it. However, even considered that I do not remember at times and open the list in vain. Even then I do not need more key presses than I need now every time, even if I know exactly where the bib file is (given that I use the file dialog). I'm not saying that the two-button solution is ideal, but it's better for Edwin and not worse for me. Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
> "John" == John Levon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> What about a combox with this list of databases (and maybe a >> browse button near the combox?) John> You mean in the first dialog? That would make the dialog pretty John> confusing IMO... You are right, this is what happens when trying to give ideas without looking at the document! I think one problem (also with the citation dialog) is that it is designed to add several entries whereas in most cases only one entry is needed. I am not sure however how we could make a dialog that is easy for the common case but still allows the special case of several entries. It could be something like a combox to choose one bib database with a small + on the right. When clicking on +, a second combox appears below the first (with a + at the right to add another one, and a - to delete an entry). JMarc
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
> "Abdelrazak" == Abdelrazak Younes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Abdelrazak> IMHO, the bibtex dialog should be accessible from the Abdelrazak> citation dialog. For the matter, I think everything Abdelrazak> related to citation should be accessible through the Abdelrazak> citation dialog. I do not think a global setting needs to be accessible from a local inset. It is confusing. Abdelrazak> Question: Is it possible to make a reference to a bibtex Abdelrazak> element as well as a local bibliography element in the Abdelrazak> same document? I don't think so. Abdelrazak> I think a simple, case-insensitive, search-as-type is more Abdelrazak> than enough and more intuitive. A more powerful search Abdelrazak> tool dialog could be opened in need of advanced search Abdelrazak> (via Ctr+F and/or a search button). Yes. JMarc
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes a écrit : "Abdelrazak" == Abdelrazak Younes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Abdelrazak> IMHO, the bibtex dialog should be accessible from the Abdelrazak> citation dialog. For the matter, I think everything Abdelrazak> related to citation should be accessible through the Abdelrazak> citation dialog. I do not think a global setting needs to be accessible from a local inset. It is confusing. So should we put the handling of multiple bibtex database in the document settings dialog instead? Abdelrazak> Question: Is it possible to make a reference to a bibtex Abdelrazak> element as well as a local bibliography element in the Abdelrazak> same document? I don't think so. IMHO, this is bad. Imagine you have a document with some bibliography elements already inside. If you want to refer to an element inside a bibtex database you have first to convert all your biblio elements first? Abdelrazak> I think a simple, case-insensitive, search-as-type is more Abdelrazak> than enough and more intuitive. A more powerful search Abdelrazak> tool dialog could be opened in need of advanced search Abdelrazak> (via Ctr+F and/or a search button). Yes. This is in my long-long todo list then. Maybe next Christmas :-) Abdel.
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
> It could be something like a combox to choose one bib database with > a small + on the right. When clicking on +, a second combox appears > below the first (with a + at the right to add another one, and a - > to delete an entry). what is wrong with a simple dialog + an add... push button that pops up a filedialog? who cares if you need to traverse a couple of directories to find the bib file? the point here is that adding the bibtex ref is a one time affair (usually) and not a recurrent task when working on a document. i think that there is no point in being too smart here at the cost of loosing simplicity/transparency. at the moment: 1. insert->LIST/TOC>Bibtex Bib 2. click add.. 3. click browse 3. go to .bib location 4. click OK 5. select bibtex database in listbox 6. click Add 7. click OK or (but never for me though and i wonder how often for most users) 1. insert->LIST/TOC>Bibtex Bib 2. click add.. 3. select bibtex database in listbox 4. click Add 5. click OK plus the nuisance of extra dialogs with a simple add... button plus filedialog: 1. insert->LIST/TOC>Bibtex Bib 2. click add.. 3. go to .bib location 4. click OK 5. click OK simple solutions are so much better edwin
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
> "Abdelrazak" == Abdelrazak Younes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Abdelrazak> So should we put the handling of multiple bibtex database Abdelrazak> in the document settings dialog instead? It would be correct in some sense, but the fact is that the place where you insert the bibtex database is the point where the biblio appears in the document. So the information is local. Abdelrazak> IMHO, this is bad. Imagine you have a document with some Abdelrazak> bibliography elements already inside. If you want to refer Abdelrazak> to an element inside a bibtex database you have first to Abdelrazak> convert all your biblio elements first? That is how it works. JMarc
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. wrote: > what is wrong with a simple dialog + an add... push button that pops up a > filedialog? > > who cares if you need to traverse a couple of directories to find the bib > file? That is not the main problem IMHO. The main problem is that LyX is currently smart enough to find all .bib files that are available somewhere in the texmf tree. I certainly don't want to enter the full path to a .bib file that I put in my texmf tree in order to be accessible without path. Please consider this when making changes to the bibtex dialog. Georg
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Georg Baum a écrit : Leuven, E. wrote: what is wrong with a simple dialog + an add... push button that pops up a filedialog? who cares if you need to traverse a couple of directories to find the bib file? That is not the main problem IMHO. The main problem is that LyX is currently smart enough to find all .bib files that are available somewhere in the texmf tree. I certainly don't want to enter the full path to a .bib file that I put in my texmf tree in order to be accessible without path. Please consider this when making changes to the bibtex dialog. An idea: Why not provide this list just below the delete button (or above a lowered Add button), there is enough place and you will have the best of both world. Abdel.
RE: RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
> That is not the main problem IMHO. The main problem is that LyX is > currently smart enough to find all .bib files that are available > somewhere in the texmf tree. I certainly don't want to enter the full > path to a .bib file that I put in my texmf tree in order to be > accessible without path. Please consider this when making changes to > the bibtex dialog. i wonder how many users have the .bib file in the texmf tree in fact, i wonder how many users now what a texmf tree is. actually, *i* wouldn't know where to put it. i have it in a directory (bib) in my homedir, and (2 clicks away) i carry it around on my usb stick... atm i get the choice of the following bibtex databases: amsxport-options mrabbrev plbib test xampl i have no clue what they are, and am not sure i want to see them of course we can be smart (for how many people?), but there is a cost: a more complicated user interface which might even be perceived as confusing. edwin
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. wrote: > what is wrong with a simple dialog + an add... push button that pops up a > filedialog? > > who cares if you need to traverse a couple of directories to find the bib > file? As Georg wrote, it is conceptually wrong, since LaTeX has a PATH for bibtex files. I admit that lots of people do not add their bibtex files there, but it should be possible nonetheless to select a file from there without entering the whole path. Think of a document that is used on different machines that have different TeX setups. Moreover, I'd like to educate the users to put their files in the path. And I want to have that list immediately, because I always put my bibfiles there. That's probably because I'm working with quite large bibtex files that are used over and over again in articles and books. But that's mainly what bibtex was designed for, wasn't it? Jürgen
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
shortcut to the root directory of the bibtex bib tree in the filedialog + stripping of directories if the database is located there would solve some of these problems? edwin -Original Message- From: Juergen Spitzmueller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 20-Mar-06 11:39 To: lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Subject: Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog Leuven, E. wrote: > what is wrong with a simple dialog + an add... push button that pops up a > filedialog? > > who cares if you need to traverse a couple of directories to find the bib > file? As Georg wrote, it is conceptually wrong, since LaTeX has a PATH for bibtex files. I admit that lots of people do not add their bibtex files there, but it should be possible nonetheless to select a file from there without entering the whole path. Think of a document that is used on different machines that have different TeX setups. Moreover, I'd like to educate the users to put their files in the path. And I want to have that list immediately, because I always put my bibfiles there. That's probably because I'm working with quite large bibtex files that are used over and over again in articles and books. But that's mainly what bibtex was designed for, wasn't it? Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. a écrit : shortcut to the root directory of the bibtex bib tree in the filedialog + stripping of directories if the database is located there would solve some of these problems? This is a good compromise IMHO. And it would educate the user at where to put these bib file in the first place. Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Also sprach Leuven, E.: > shortcut to the root directory of the bibtex bib tree in the filedialog > + stripping of directories if the database is located there > would solve some of these problems? No. I don't want to browse there. I want to select my files instantly. LaTeX provides the feature of searching the paths for me, and I want to use that. I have divided my bibliography into several small pieces (thematically). I have about 15 bib databases with ~4000 entries in my path. Usually, I don't chose one, but several of them for a document, depending on the topic. I don't want to browse through the dirs everytime. I really don't understand why you insist on remving a functionality, just because you don't need it personally. I never used browsing for bib files, but I would never vote for removing it. I think the best solution is probably, as Abdel recommended, to have two buttons instead of one in the bibtex dialog: "Browse" (through directory) and "Select" (from the bst file list). Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Abdelrazak Younes wrote: > > shortcut to the root directory of the bibtex bib tree in the filedialog > > > > + stripping of directories if the database is located there > > > > would solve some of these problems? > > This is a good compromise IMHO. And it would educate the user at where > to put these bib file in the first place. but the good thing is that you can have several different directories in the path, at least a personal and a global one, but also (as I do) different ones for different topics. Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Juergen Spitzmueller a écrit : Abdelrazak Younes wrote: shortcut to the root directory of the bibtex bib tree in the filedialog + stripping of directories if the database is located there would solve some of these problems? This is a good compromise IMHO. And it would educate the user at where to put these bib file in the first place. but the good thing is that you can have several different directories in the path, at least a personal and a global one, but also (as I do) different ones for different topics. OK, I'll shut up. I obviously don't know what I am takking about :-) Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 12:12:06PM +0100, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: > I think the best solution is probably, as Abdel recommended, to have two > buttons instead of one in the bibtex dialog: "Browse" (through directory) and > "Select" (from the bst file list). It's too confusing. How about a multi-selection list box showing all the found bibtex's by default. A "Browse..." button would do the browsing: Databases * -- |*foo** /\ | Browse... | | bar || |*baz***|| ... . .... | \/ -- regards john
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
> How about a multi-selection list box showing all the found > bibtex's by default. A "Browse..." button would do the browsing: so this gets rid of the 2nd dialog and shows in the list box the databases that are selected i like this much better (would checkboxes be clearer than highlighted items?)
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
John Levon a écrit : On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 12:12:06PM +0100, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: I think the best solution is probably, as Abdel recommended, to have two buttons instead of one in the bibtex dialog: "Browse" (through directory) and "Select" (from the bst file list). It's too confusing. How about a multi-selection list box showing all the found bibtex's by default. A "Browse..." button would do the browsing: Hum that's exactly what I proposed ;-) Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 01:45:47PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: > > How about a multi-selection list box showing all the found > > bibtex's by default. A "Browse..." button would do the browsing: > > i like this much better > > (would checkboxes be clearer than highlighted items?) I don't think so no. Now we just have to deal with the much harder citation dialog :) regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
John Levon wrote: > It's too confusing. people would get used to it. > How about a multi-selection list box showing all the found bibtex's by > default. A "Browse..." button would do the browsing I hate to be a PITA, but I'm not convinced. Look, I have currently more than 100 bib files in that list (lots from the TeXLive distribution, and my own). Checking which one are selected would be difficult. There must be a solution where only the selected databases are visible (I would be fine with a "show only selected" toggle or somesuch). Jürgen
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
> I hate to be a PITA, sure ;-) > but I'm not convinced. Look, I have currently more > than 100 bib files in that list (lots from the TeXLive > distribution, and my own). and you care about all 100? sound like an exceptional situation > Checking which one are selected would be difficult. There > must be a solution where only the selected databases are > visible (I would be fine with a "show only selected" toggle > or somesuch). what about having *two* buttons on the 1st dialog 1. browse... 2. add from list where the first directly pops up a filedialog and the second the add dialog that we have now ?
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:10:13PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: > > Checking which one are selected would be difficult. There > > must be a solution where only the selected databases are > > visible (I would be fine with a "show only selected" toggle > > or somesuch). > > what about having *two* buttons on the 1st dialog > > 1. browse... > 2. add from list > > where the first directly pops up a filedialog > and the second the add dialog that we have now This sounds worse than it is now... regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Also sprach Leuven, E.: > and you care about all 100? No. But the list of those I care about is evergrowing. > sound like an exceptional situation Not exceptional for people that use a full TeXLive installation (quite a few I guess). > > Checking which one are selected would be difficult. There > > must be a solution where only the selected databases are > > visible (I would be fine with a "show only selected" toggle > > or somesuch). > > what about having *two* buttons on the 1st dialog > > 1. browse... > 2. add from list > > where the first directly pops up a filedialog > and the second the add dialog that we have now That's what I proposed as well. I think it would serve both of us best. However, John disagrees. Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
John Levon wrote: > This sounds worse than it is now... Why actually? Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 02:40:27PM +0100, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: > I hate to be a PITA, but I'm not convinced. Look, I have currently more than > 100 bib files in that list (lots from the TeXLive distribution, and my own). > Checking which one are selected would be difficult. There must be a solution > where only the selected databases are visible (I would be fine with a "show > only selected" toggle or somesuch). A toggle is no good... you know, it doesn't seem like any solution is going to be significantly better than what we have now. So I wonder if it's worth the disruption at all. regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:21:17PM +0100, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: > John Levon wrote: > > This sounds worse than it is now... > > Why actually? You can't easily make the decision on which button to press until after you've pressed it and found out. regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
John Levon wrote: > You can't easily make the decision on which button to press until after > you've pressed it and found out. This is until you have tried it two times, then you know. With the current solution, you are forced to hit two buttons to get to the file dialog every time. Knowledge doesn't help you anything. Also, we have tooltips. I know, I'm speaking from a strictly subjective position. I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. Jürgen
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
> With the current solution, you are forced to hit two buttons > to get to the file dialog every time. and after that you need to select the database from a list and add it the learning curve with 2 buttons doesn't seem very steep to me
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Mon, Mar 20, 2006 at 03:27:00PM +0100, Juergen Spitzmueller wrote: > > You can't easily make the decision on which button to press until after > > you've pressed it and found out. > > This is until you have tried it two times, then you know. You mean you've somehow memorised whether the database you want is on the list? I'm not talking about what the buttons *do*, I'm talking about the *contents* you get. > With the current solution, you are forced to hit two buttons to get to > the file dialog every time. Knowledge doesn't help you anything. It's certainly not ideal. regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Also sprach John Levon: > > This is until you have tried it two times, then you know. > > You mean you've somehow memorised whether the database you want is on > the list? Sure. I know that I need the list only, because I use BIBINPUTS. But I talked about the knowledge of what the buttons do. After all, you also need to memorize the location of a database if you need to browse for it. However, even considered that I do not remember at times and open the list in vain. Even then I do not need more key presses than I need now every time, even if I know exactly where the bib file is (given that I use the file dialog). I'm not saying that the two-button solution is ideal, but it's better for Edwin and not worse for me. Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Abdelrazak Younes wrote: IMHO, the bibtex dialog should be accessible from the citation dialog. For the matter, I think everything related to citation should be accessible through the citation dialog. And if we have several different bibtext insets (bibtopic)? Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Juergen Spitzmueller a écrit : Abdelrazak Younes wrote: IMHO, the bibtex dialog should be accessible from the citation dialog. For the matter, I think everything related to citation should be accessible through the citation dialog. And if we have several different bibtext insets (bibtopic)? Good question, I don't know. As I said I am not really a Bibtex user but I feel like some kind of generalisation of the bibliography interface should be done. Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Abdelrazak Younes wrote: > IMHO, the bibtex dialog should be accessible from the citation dialog. > For the matter, I think everything related to citation should be > accessible through the citation dialog. And if we have several different bibtext insets (bibtopic)? Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Juergen Spitzmueller a écrit : Abdelrazak Younes wrote: IMHO, the bibtex dialog should be accessible from the citation dialog. For the matter, I think everything related to citation should be accessible through the citation dialog. And if we have several different bibtext insets (bibtopic)? Good question, I don't know. As I said I am not really a Bibtex user but I feel like some kind of generalisation of the bibliography interface should be done. Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. wrote: i personally think this is more convenient. comments, opinions? fine with me. Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. a écrit : i personally think this is more convenient. comments, opinions? This is fine with me also. Plus you have ported it to Qt4 API which is even better. But I am not much a Bibtex user. Would you want to give a go for Citation/AddCitation Dialog? I don't have the time right now to do it. Thanks, Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 12:51:07PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: i personally think this is more convenient. comments, opinions? Can't I have a qt3 version to look at? Do we really want the two frontends to diverge over these things? regards john
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. edwin -Original Message- From: John Levon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 18-Mar-06 18:12 To: Leuven, E. Cc: lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Subject: Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 12:51:07PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: i personally think this is more convenient. comments, opinions? Can't I have a qt3 version to look at? Do we really want the two frontends to diverge over these things? regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. wrote: it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. So the scanned list of bib files is not available anymore? That's bad. Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 06:19:05PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. Why is it more convenient to walk through the file system than have a list of your bibtex databases in front of you? regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
John == John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 06:19:05PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. John Why is it more convenient to walk through the file system than John have a list of your bibtex databases in front of you? What about a combox with this list of databases (and maybe a browse button near the combox?) JMarc
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 07:10:12PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: John On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 06:19:05PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. John Why is it more convenient to walk through the file system than John have a list of your bibtex databases in front of you? What about a combox with this list of databases (and maybe a browse button near the combox?) You mean in the first dialog? That would make the dialog pretty confusing IMO... john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes a écrit : John == John Levon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 06:19:05PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. John Why is it more convenient to walk through the file system than John have a list of your bibtex databases in front of you? What about a combox with this list of databases (and maybe a browse button near the combox?) IMHO, the bibtex dialog should be accessible from the citation dialog. For the matter, I think everything related to citation should be accessible through the citation dialog. Question: Is it possible to make a reference to a bibtex element as well as a local bibliography element in the same document? I made a proposal for the citation dialog yesterday: I think a simple, case-insensitive, search-as-type is more than enough and more intuitive. A more powerful search tool dialog could be opened in need of advanced search (via Ctr+F and/or a search button). This advanced search button could allow searching bibtex database. I mean, is there a reason why a bibtex reference should not be cited in the same way as a local bibliography reference? I am not a Bibtex user myself because it just seems so complicated... Maybe that's the reason why I don't understand the reason behind this distinction. Or maybe it is a latex issue? I am just a dumb user here so please excuse me if my questions seem obvious to you. Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. wrote: > i personally think this is more convenient. > comments, opinions? fine with me. Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. a écrit : i personally think this is more convenient. comments, opinions? This is fine with me also. Plus you have ported it to Qt4 API which is even better. But I am not much a Bibtex user. Would you want to give a go for Citation/AddCitation Dialog? I don't have the time right now to do it. Thanks, Abdel.
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 12:51:07PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: > i personally think this is more convenient. > > comments, opinions? Can't I have a qt3 version to look at? Do we really want the two frontends to diverge over these things? regards john
RE: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. edwin -Original Message- From: John Levon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 18-Mar-06 18:12 To: Leuven, E. Cc: lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org Subject: Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 12:51:07PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: > i personally think this is more convenient. > > comments, opinions? Can't I have a qt3 version to look at? Do we really want the two frontends to diverge over these things? regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Leuven, E. wrote: > it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click add... it > directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. So the scanned list of bib files is not available anymore? That's bad. Jürgen
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 06:19:05PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: > it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click > add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. Why is it more convenient to walk through the file system than have a list of your bibtex databases in front of you? regards john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
> "John" == John Levon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: John> On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 06:19:05PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: >> it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click >> add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. John> Why is it more convenient to walk through the file system than John> have a list of your bibtex databases in front of you? What about a combox with this list of databases (and maybe a browse button near the combox?) JMarc
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 07:10:12PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > John> On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 06:19:05PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: > >> it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click > >> add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. > > John> Why is it more convenient to walk through the file system than > John> have a list of your bibtex databases in front of you? > > What about a combox with this list of databases (and maybe a browse > button near the combox?) You mean in the first dialog? That would make the dialog pretty confusing IMO... john
Re: qt4: remove (2nd) add dialog in add bib tex ref dialog
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes a écrit : "John" == John Levon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: John> On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 06:19:05PM +0100, Leuven, E. wrote: it is just the 1st dialog in the qt3 version, but when you click add... it directly pops up the file dialog to add a bib file. John> Why is it more convenient to walk through the file system than John> have a list of your bibtex databases in front of you? What about a combox with this list of databases (and maybe a browse button near the combox?) IMHO, the bibtex dialog should be accessible from the citation dialog. For the matter, I think everything related to citation should be accessible through the citation dialog. Question: Is it possible to make a reference to a bibtex element as well as a local bibliography element in the same document? I made a proposal for the citation dialog yesterday: I think a simple, case-insensitive, search-as-type is more than enough and more intuitive. A more powerful search tool dialog could be opened in need of advanced search (via Ctr+F and/or a search button). This advanced search button could allow searching bibtex database. I mean, is there a reason why a bibtex reference should not be cited in the same way as a local bibliography reference? I am not a Bibtex user myself because it just seems so complicated... Maybe that's the reason why I don't understand the reason behind this distinction. Or maybe it is a latex issue? I am just a dumb user here so please excuse me if my questions seem obvious to you. Abdel.
