Re: improving typography and layout in tutorial.lyx
Am 23.04.2016 um 15:25 schrieb mn: Every doc should have at least another round of chktex applied to them. I am the doc maintainer and on Windows only and ChkteX was not available for Windows (it is now since a few weeks but I did not have the time to try it out. Nevertheless, most issues arose because we changed the fonts for dome documents without checking the change in the PDF output. Nevertheless instead of ChkTeX I prefer the checks of the different persons working at the docs. Especially for non-English texts I assume that software like ChkTeX will fail in some cases. Better fonts and uniformity of choices for all the included docs: Tutorial already uses Palatino, but not true smallcaps. Activating smallcaps should be always on, if available. (Think “Noun-Style”) What do you mean with "not true smallcaps"? Other docs still use LModern and Courier. These should be abolished. No, we had a discussion about the fonts already and the current font choices are the result. Given the choices available Palatino is probably the best. Mathdesign Charter is so buggy, you get an error in typesetting additional.lyx. Can you please point me to this special issue? I don't see a problem here. % URW-Garamond is not that good for reading on screen. ... Says who. It is normal that everybody has personal preferences but we should not judge fonts. Every font has its advantages and disadvantages. The most important thing is the task that should be fulfilled with the docs: provide information is a way that people understand the features of LyX quickly. Things like kerning or if endash or emdash is used is therefore not very important. Things that make the docs hardly readable like the margin protrudes you discovered in the tutorial are important and must be fixed. Anyway, all the docs should conform to a certain style-guide. Why? Does this help the users to understand LyX's features. The different documents have different maintainers and a different history. If a users send a new file it is more important for me to look that its content is OK rather than to bother him to follow a certain style. For some documents an article class is sensible while for others a book class is more suitable... Introducing either ERT: \allowbreak or a ragged linebreak into some LyX-Code environments to avoid margin violations. Sure. Please report all those issues here. Setting the slash-character “/” always compress. OK. If you send files where this is corrected I will commit your changes. “Correct” usage of endash, This is microtypography. I don't think that wen need to take care of this. But also here, if you send files where this is corrected, I will commit them. Correct punctuation and usage of … for \dots or \ldots instead of three fullstops ... . Same opinion as for endash. OK, we even have a menu entry to insert ldots so we should use them if possible. Where did you spot this problem? regards Uwe
Re: improving typography and layout in tutorial.lyx
Am 20.04.2016 um 15:35 schrieb mn: The current English tutorial.lyx in rc1 does not yield clean PDFs on three levels:... Dear MN, many thanks for your report. Please use a real name. We all use our real names - as in real life. These are hopefully improved upon in the attached .lyx-file. Thanks, your changes are now in. 2. Then there are problems with lines running into the margin: These are the following: occuring with default a4-papersize. – Exercise: Fix the section and subsection headings in example_raw.lyx. – Exercise: Correctly typeset the Quote, LYX-Code, and Verse in example_raw.lyx —If you want to know more about this document, then see Section . These are fixed now. The first one only occurs because we changed the font of the document and nobody reviewed it afterwards. 3. In section 3.2 designating paragraphs deviates (only optically?) from the rest of the document in apparently using indention and skips. For my own documents I would insert a pagebreak there. Yes. I have done this now. regards Uwe
Re: improving typography and layout in tutorial.lyx
1. There are a few minor typographical problems – catched with (builtin) chktex. En-dashes, footnote-spacing, excess space(~). These are hopefully improved upon in the attached .lyx-file. Uwe, do you intend to take these changes into account? I think it is important to adhere to good typography principles in our docs. I can apply the changes if you do not have time to look after it. It is better to do it right now than to let the documents bitrot. (From the existing I deduced that the desired behavior was to conform to Bringhurst‘s guide: endash surrounded with spaces.) 2. Then there are problems with lines running into the margin: These are the following: occuring with default a4-papersize. – Exercise: Fix the section and subsection headings in example_raw.lyx. – Exercise: Correctly typeset the Quote, LYX-Code, and Verse in example_raw.lyx All the Exercise entries could read "in example_raw.lyx, do this and that". That would solve these problems. —If you want to know more about this document, then see Section . This is from 3.4.2. We should either break the line by ourselves or use a Quote environment instead of LyX-Code. This line going in the margin is ridiculous. These I did not try to fix in the attached file since I didn’t find something like a style-guide for LyX-documentation. 3. In section 3.2 designating paragraphs deviates (only optically?) from the rest of the document in apparently using indention and skips. For my own documents I would insert a pagebreak there. Mn, I do not see what you mean here. Uwe, please let me know if you plan to handle these changes or if I should do them. JMarc
Re: improving typography and layout in tutorial.lyx
On 21.04.16 19:25, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
>> The issue I raised called “2.” points to a commmon problem in several
>> LyX-documentation-docs, not only tutorial(en):
>> Lines running into the margin.
>> This is really bad, both optically and as an example. Of course,
>> guessing that it is not meant as one of multiple examples of what can go
>> wrong, when you start using LaTeX/LyX!
>
> I wholeheartedly agree with you. Our manuals should be a showcase for
> LyX and how to use it correctly.
>
> I did not have time to look at your changes, but I think something has
> to be done.
My thoughts and suggestions for this are as follows,
hopefully applied minimalistically and eye-pleasing in the attached
document:
Every doc should have at least another round of chktex applied to them.
Better fonts and uniformity of choices for all the included docs:
Tutorial already uses Palatino, but not true smallcaps.
Activating smallcaps should be always on, if available. (Think “Noun-Style”)
Other docs still use LModern and Courier. These should be abolished.
% Apart from illustrating the urgent need for LyX to support more of
TeXLive’s fonts for pdflatex…
Given the choices available Palatino is probably the best.
Mathdesign Charter is so buggy, you get an error in typesetting
additional.lyx.
% URW-Garamond is not that good for reading on screen.
% TXTypewriter would be my current favorite (Luximono being excluded
for install shenanigans).
% The glyphs of TexGyre-Heros are imho superior to that Helvetica clone
now chosen, but LyX deactivates the scaling for Heros?
Anyway, all the docs should conform to a certain style-guide.
This guide should cover quite a bit more then what can only be deduced
from introduction.lyx and the other documents.
Introducing either ERT: \allowbreak or a ragged linebreak into some
LyX-Code environments to avoid margin violations.
Since this is a tutorial, maybe introducing both (or other) concepts
might even be a good thing. Margin cleanliness is a major headache (not
only for first timers…)
Sometimes rewording seemed the only choice to avoid margin trouble.
Setting the slash-character “/” always compress.
No thinspaces around it, no other spaces – this was handled
inconsistently; but only using thinspace throughout would be
acceptable?), except when reflecting the menu-entry “List / TOC” where
it is done likewise (and wrong imho).
“Correct” usage of endash, surrounded with interword spaces
(alternative: emdash, but then it should not have any spaces around it –
of course, “which” is a matter of taste, as long as it is consistent)
Example for definite wrongness: currently the first sentence exhibits
"-", the hyphen, instead of the dashes "–" or "—".
Correct punctuation and usage of … for \dots or \ldots instead of three
fullstops ... .
“Exercises” where cramped due to choice of standard environment.
Setting them to “Description” separates them visually and avoids
indention at the same time.
Consistent use of quotation marks.
They are used seldom plain wrong (which should be fixed of course),
but I am under the impression that how they are entered is differing
from time to time?
% My habit has been to use
% \textquotedblleft \textquotedblright{}
% and the like to get the best results instead of shit-2.
% Then, this may be suboptimal?
% But then the ‘subtle’ hints in the PDF
% look wrong in LyX with `subtle' hints
Updated snippets of screenshots.
My guess is that on no platform LyX-2.2+ is supporting things look
really as bad as in the screenshots included (i.e. not anymore).
mn
Tutorial-en-c2.lyx
Description: application/lyx
Re: improving typography and layout in tutorial.lyx
On 20.04.16 16:51, John Robert Hudson wrote: > On Wednesday 20 Apr 2016 15:35:24 mn wrote: >> The current English tutorial.lyx in rc1 does not yield clean PDFs >> on three levels: >> >> 1. There are a few minor typographical problems – catched with >> (builtin) chktex. En-dashes, footnote-spacing, excess space(~). >> >> These are hopefully improved upon in the attached .lyx-file. >> >> (From the existing I deduced that the desired behavior was to >> conform to Bringhurst‘s guide: endash surrounded with spaces.) >> >> >> 2. Then there are problems with lines running into the margin: >> >> These are the following: occuring with default a4-papersize. >> >> – Exercise: Fix the section and subsection headings in >> example_raw.lyx. >> >> – Exercise: Correctly typeset the Quote, LYX-Code, and Verse in >> example_raw.lyx >> >> — If you want to know more about this document, then see Section . > Thank you for your feedback but I wonder if you are over-estimating what we > are trying to do with the example. In the Tutorial 1.2.2, we say: > > 1.2.2 What you will not find > • Detailed explanations of all of LyX's features. > Look in the User's Guide when you need this. > • Detailed explanations of LaTeX. > Unnecessary. If you want to learn some of the neat tricks you can do with > LaTeX in LyX, you can have a look at the Embedded Objects manual. > > Many of the issues you raise are covered in the User's Guide and other > manuals. > > Note that the Tutorial uses the standard Book document style whereas, in the > User's Guide and other manuals, we use the KOMA-Script Book document style so > that we do not introduce too many new ideas all at once in the Tutorial. My current understanding is that maybe you mistook my issues for something they were not intended to be? I offered a kind of proof-reading. The issue I raised called “2.” points to a commmon problem in several LyX-documentation-docs, not only tutorial(en): Lines running into the margin. This is really bad, both optically and as an example. Of course, guessing that it is not meant as one of multiple examples of what can go wrong, when you start using LaTeX/LyX! So, to be clear: most of the shipping documents I looked at do not produce clean PDFs when typeset unmodified from LyX. The lines I quoted do run into the margin; quite severely. Whether it's letter- or a4-size. Is this intentional? And also example-wise: whether it’s LaTeX or LyX, the end-user is still responsible for the proper use of most microtypographic rules. Ignoring these rules leads to inferior outcomes. Incorrect usage of dashes, spaces and so forth. I do not believe that any of these are really there to encourage users/readers to do the same. If they are, that would be bad. mn
Re: improving typography and layout in tutorial.lyx
Dear mn Thank you for your feedback but I wonder if you are over-estimating what we are trying to do with the example. In the Tutorial 1.2.2, we say: 1.2.2 What you will not find • Detailed explanations of all of LyX's features. Look in the User's Guide when you need this. • Detailed explanations of LaTeX. Unnecessary. If you want to learn some of the neat tricks you can do with LaTeX in LyX, you can have a look at the Embedded Objects manual. Many of the issues you raise are covered in the User's Guide and other manuals. Note that the Tutorial uses the standard Book document style whereas, in the User's Guide and other manuals, we use the KOMA-Script Book document style so that we do not introduce too many new ideas all at once in the Tutorial. John -- On Wednesday 20 Apr 2016 15:35:24 mn wrote: > Hello. > > The current English tutorial.lyx in rc1 does not yield clean PDFs on > three levels: > > 1. There are a few minor typographical problems – catched with (builtin) > chktex. > En-dashes, footnote-spacing, excess space(~). > > These are hopefully improved upon in the attached .lyx-file. > > (From the existing I deduced that the desired behavior was to conform to > Bringhurst‘s guide: endash surrounded with spaces.) > > > 2. Then there are problems with lines running into the margin: > > These are the following: occuring with default a4-papersize. > > – Exercise: Fix the section and subsection headings in example_raw.lyx. > > – Exercise: Correctly typeset the Quote, LYX-Code, and Verse in > example_raw.lyx > > —If you want to know more about this document, then see Section . > > These I did not try to fix in the attached file since I didn’t find > something like a style-guide for LyX-documentation. > > 3. In section 3.2 designating paragraphs deviates (only optically?) from > the rest of the document in apparently using indention and skips. > For my own documents I would insert a pagebreak there. > > mn
improving typography and layout in tutorial.lyx
Hello. The current English tutorial.lyx in rc1 does not yield clean PDFs on three levels: 1. There are a few minor typographical problems – catched with (builtin) chktex. En-dashes, footnote-spacing, excess space(~). These are hopefully improved upon in the attached .lyx-file. (From the existing I deduced that the desired behavior was to conform to Bringhurst‘s guide: endash surrounded with spaces.) 2. Then there are problems with lines running into the margin: These are the following: occuring with default a4-papersize. – Exercise: Fix the section and subsection headings in example_raw.lyx. – Exercise: Correctly typeset the Quote, LYX-Code, and Verse in example_raw.lyx —If you want to know more about this document, then see Section . These I did not try to fix in the attached file since I didn’t find something like a style-guide for LyX-documentation. 3. In section 3.2 designating paragraphs deviates (only optically?) from the rest of the document in apparently using indention and skips. For my own documents I would insert a pagebreak there. mn Tutorial-en-c.lyx Description: application/lyx
