Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
I think that I read somewhere that Mandriva *started *as KDE centric. AFAIK, Gnome, KDE and some other popular DE are supported and Mandriva spent an important effort to make them look alike from the main menu and other customizations point of view. As file browsers I like Dolphin, Konqueror and I use Krusader a lot. As internet browser, Firefox is my favorite, although I use Opera occasionally (it's ergonomic, free but not open sourced). I would like to see Firefox having Chrome's architecture (each tab in its process) and less memory consumer (this is due to plugins too - the pluggable architecture is what makes me stick with it).
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
2010/10/7 Kira elegant.pega...@gmail.com 在 Thu, 07 Oct 2010 13:29:25 +0800, Ahmad Samir ahmadsamir3...@gmail.com 寫道: No, konqueror is still useful as a file manager (some users don't like dolphin for some reason), also as a man pages viewer. Also it shares some code with dolphin (some stuff/features don't work in dolphin if konqueror isn't installed). That part of code should be split as independent share package, isn't it? Also, is it possible to use other browsers to do the same job? I think Konqueror should only in the full task package set you install kde4 (task-kde4), not in the core task package set (task-kde4-minimal). For me, Konqueror is the main application in my system. file manager and browser. May be for others too -- Dimitrios Glentadakis
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On Thursday 07 Oct 2010 19:11:45 Mihai Dobrescu wrote: I think that I read somewhere that Mandriva *started *as KDE centric. AFAIK, Gnome, KDE and some other popular DE are supported and Mandriva spent an important effort to make them look alike from the main menu and other customizations point of view. As file browsers I like Dolphin, Konqueror and I use Krusader a lot. As internet browser, Firefox is my favorite, although I use Opera occasionally (it's ergonomic, free but not open sourced). I would like to see Firefox having Chrome's architecture (each tab in its process) and less memory consumer (this is due to plugins too - the pluggable architecture is what makes me stick with it). Don't kill konqueror it's my default ftp client. There are already a bunch of Gnome centric distros. KDE centric would be no issue nobody else is so in fact it would be a excellent point of difference. In fact, if it was my decision I'd leave Gnome to Ubuntu, Redhat, CentOS, Debian, Solaris and all those Gnome centric distros and concentrate on being the best KDE environment. Cheers GL
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On Thu, 2010-10-07 at 00:22 -0400, andré wrote: Sorteal a écrit : On Thu, 2010-10-07 at 04:01 +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: 2010/10/7 Marc Parém...@marcpare.com: I guess this information would have to come from someone from the core dev group. Just so that we know for sure. So, is Mageia going to be principally a KDE distro with offers during installation to install GNOME and other desktops? Or is it going to be a desktop agnostic distro where the user eventually picks the desktop sometime during the installation processs? This may help with this thread on the talk of browsers. Pls correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know any browser which is DE dependent - well, there's konqueror, if you want to call this I want to be everything a browser. But for real browsers, what does it matter which DE is used? While Mandriva officially supported both GNOME and KDE, I do remember the last time I tried the GNOME version of Mandriva it was pretty much a raw GNOME install. It had no changes to the default options such as, a web browser type of tool bar, and opening new folders in the same window. After trying to get to a video and finding I now had 5 windows opened I assumed Mandriva's focus was most assuredly KDE. I admit this was a while back, so this could all have been addressed already, but it scared me away from Mandriva-GNOME. For a while Gnome 2 had some problems at first, just as did KDE 4, but they have been long solved. (The upgrade to Gnome 2 was a major rewrite.) Most of the things you mention are configuration problems. It might be a little difficult at first finding exactly where to adjust the specific settings, but that is to be expected. Also, while yes, most browsers are DE independent, Firefox takes a bit of tweeking to work flawlessly within the KDE DE. Some distros have supplied a very vanilla install and things such as application associations were rather buggy. Yet, if it's done right (and Mandriva always did it right) Firefox works great on KDE as do all the other major browsers, IE excluded of course. Firefox also works well with Gnome. ... Wait a minute ... who said that (ms) IE is a major browser ? ;) Firefox works great with GNOME since it's GTK based. I love GNOME, Ubuntu is my main desktop distro with Mandriva being my work desktop, and Firefox seems tailor made for GNOME. I'm not sure if its GTK (kind of) base is the reason some KDE focused distros (Kubuntu, OpenSUSE, and Linux Mint KDE) have a rough time getting Firefox to work perfectly right out-of-the-box. As long as everything works without me having to configure it to work right I'm perfectly happy using FF as my default browser. Also, yeah I hate that IE is a major browser too. Yet for some reason 60% - 70% of computer users choose it as their main browser. Sad but true. :-( I'm really hoping Mageia focuses on both GNOME KDE, but I could also understand if the developers chose to focus on just one for stability and speed reasons. Guess I just figured it was a KDE-centric distro since Mandriva seemed to focus so much on it.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com schrieb am 2010-10-07 Thanks. That makes sense. Sorry, I was still thinking the Mandriva corporate way. So, we are pretty well left at the mercy of the devs interest with this regard. (I don't mean to sound negative, but more realist in saying this.) Do you know, out of interest, if there are more KDE or Gnome devs interested in the Mageia project or if this is till too early to tell? Looking into the wiki: http://www.mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=packaging#list_of_categories there are more packagers interested in KDE thean the others. Actually there's not a single packager interested in GNOME which I think is a pitty. Although I do prefer KDE, I'm using apps from all DEs. I don't see any reason, not to use some app just because it is from another DE I hope there will be someone taking over GNOME. (after all I am the guy building the Ubuntu-netbook-launcher for the German Mandriva community repo because I do really like the launcher). Also, out of interest, how hard is it to maintain both from a dev point of view (time-wise etc.)? (I'm sure others will jump in and ask for other desktop manager here too.) I think the main packagers from one of the DEs are quite bussy with that. Especially if you try to fit them into a distro specific look and feel. In this respect it is perhaps a good decision not to customize them too much. Makes the work much easier. Packagers as myself who were - at least till now - building only single applications can do that for any number of DEs as long as they have the time doing it. But I'm not a professional in this respect, I'm just an ambitioned amateur who is doing his best in the time that's free for me to do so. Oliver
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On 7 October 2010 13:10, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Le mercredi 06 octobre 2010 à 23:18 -0400, Sorteal a écrit : On Thu, 2010-10-07 at 04:01 +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: 2010/10/7 Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com: I guess this information would have to come from someone from the core dev group. Just so that we know for sure. So, is Mageia going to be principally a KDE distro with offers during installation to install GNOME and other desktops? Or is it going to be a desktop agnostic distro where the user eventually picks the desktop sometime during the installation processs? This may help with this thread on the talk of browsers. Pls correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know any browser which is DE dependent - well, there's konqueror, if you want to call this I want to be everything a browser. But for real browsers, what does it matter which DE is used? While Mandriva officially supported both GNOME and KDE, I do remember the last time I tried the GNOME version of Mandriva it was pretty much a raw GNOME install. Yeah, that's in fact a feature. GNOME was manager by Frederic Crozat, who is a gnome developer, so he followed quite closely gnome decisions. And KDE was managed by whom? all the Mandriva KDE team were/are KDE developers. It's just different packaging philosophies, KDE guys like to customize stuff (that's a bit generalising); while GNOME guys didn't (note that the whole GNOME philosophy is conservative, e.g. in the options in provides in GUI). Both philosophies had its pros and cons. One big advantage of sticking as close to upstream as possible is that GNOME team in mdv eased their maintenance burdens, which is logical as they weren't that many and were always overworked (note that fcrozat, for example, didn't just maintain only GNOME, but many other aspects of the distro too, including a good number of core stuff). Some people may argue that a distro is here to enhance software, but the first goal is to distribute. And since everybody think distro should collaborate more, pushing upstream is exactly this kind of collaboration. -- Michael Scherer -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On 7 October 2010 13:50, Oliver Burger oliver@googlemail.com wrote: Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com schrieb am 2010-10-07 Thanks. That makes sense. Sorry, I was still thinking the Mandriva corporate way. So, we are pretty well left at the mercy of the devs interest with this regard. (I don't mean to sound negative, but more realist in saying this.) Do you know, out of interest, if there are more KDE or Gnome devs interested in the Mageia project or if this is till too early to tell? Looking into the wiki: http://www.mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=packaging#list_of_categories there are more packagers interested in KDE thean the others. Actually there's not a single packager interested in GNOME which I think is a pitty. Although I do prefer KDE, I'm using apps from all DEs. I don't see any reason, not to use some app just because it is from another DE I hope there will be someone taking over GNOME. (after all I am the guy building the Ubuntu-netbook-launcher for the German Mandriva community repo because I do really like the launcher). Götz Waschk said he'll package for Mageia, it just seems he doesn't care about putting his names in lists :) -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On jeudi 07 octobre 2010 at 09:15, Dimitrios Glentadakis wrote : For me, Konqueror is the main application in my system. file manager and browser. May be for others too Yep, konqueror is my filemanager, web browser, (s)ftp client and quick previewer (with kparts integration). It is just great to be able to split a view and have a web page on one side and an sftp connection on the other to quickly copy linked documents from the first to the second :-) (actually, splitting views is one of my favourite konqueror killer feature) -- Renaud Michel
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
Marc Paré a écrit : Usually the more the extensions you have the heavier/more-ram/more-startup-time firefox gets (and the last time I used AdBlock Plus, about 10 months ago, it leaked memory...). Also it's not useful all over, I think I can do without it if I have noscript installed, (now what would you say if noscript is installed by default?). IMHO, I think no extra extensions should be installed by default, the user should make a choice of which ones he wants (and installing any extensions by default without the user's consent isn't ideal too, if it's going to impact the performance of Firefox). I agree, I think the user should be in charge of the extensions. How many of us have heard people say that Hey, I never installed the Yahoo! bar! or Hey, I never installed Safari!. Users are knowledgeable enough to make up their own mind on extensions. Browser use is generally a user specific preference. If Mageia is going to focus more on being a good KDE distro, then it should go along with the defaults with KDE -- Kmail/Konqueror. But, if Mageia is to decide on a flagship choice of browser, I think that most computer users these days know of Firefox and this would be a good/safe choice to use as a Mageia endorsed/default browser, but without any extensions pre-installed. The user can tailor his preferences later on depending on his/her browser choice. Marc Personally I use Gnome, so I would rather that Mageia would not become too KDE-centric. (Actually I use Mozilla Seamonkey instead of Mozilla Firefox, but that is another question.) If Kmail/Konqueror is installed by default, then the enormous KDE libraries must be installed, all of which I (or any other Gnome user) will have to remove. If there is a default browser installed, is much better if it is KDE/Gnome agnostic, like Firefox. (i.e. does not require either KDE or Gnome.) As far as extensions go, I agree to leave that to the user. With Mozilla (Firefox or Thunderbird or Seamonkey), any extension can be installed from inside the program, with a few clics. Even saves making any RPMs for the extensions. (I would make localisation extensions an exception.) - André (andre999)
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
2010/10/7 Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com: I guess this information would have to come from someone from the core dev group. Just so that we know for sure. So, is Mageia going to be principally a KDE distro with offers during installation to install GNOME and other desktops? Or is it going to be a desktop agnostic distro where the user eventually picks the desktop sometime during the installation processs? This may help with this thread on the talk of browsers. Pls correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know any browser which is DE dependent - well, there's konqueror, if you want to call this I want to be everything a browser. But for real browsers, what does it matter which DE is used?
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
Sorteal a écrit : On Thu, 2010-10-07 at 04:01 +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote: 2010/10/7 Marc Parém...@marcpare.com: I guess this information would have to come from someone from the core dev group. Just so that we know for sure. So, is Mageia going to be principally a KDE distro with offers during installation to install GNOME and other desktops? Or is it going to be a desktop agnostic distro where the user eventually picks the desktop sometime during the installation processs? This may help with this thread on the talk of browsers. Pls correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know any browser which is DE dependent - well, there's konqueror, if you want to call this I want to be everything a browser. But for real browsers, what does it matter which DE is used? While Mandriva officially supported both GNOME and KDE, I do remember the last time I tried the GNOME version of Mandriva it was pretty much a raw GNOME install. It had no changes to the default options such as, a web browser type of tool bar, and opening new folders in the same window. After trying to get to a video and finding I now had 5 windows opened I assumed Mandriva's focus was most assuredly KDE. I admit this was a while back, so this could all have been addressed already, but it scared me away from Mandriva-GNOME. For a while Gnome 2 had some problems at first, just as did KDE 4, but they have been long solved. (The upgrade to Gnome 2 was a major rewrite.) Most of the things you mention are configuration problems. It might be a little difficult at first finding exactly where to adjust the specific settings, but that is to be expected. Also, while yes, most browsers are DE independent, Firefox takes a bit of tweeking to work flawlessly within the KDE DE. Some distros have supplied a very vanilla install and things such as application associations were rather buggy. Yet, if it's done right (and Mandriva always did it right) Firefox works great on KDE as do all the other major browsers, IE excluded of course. Firefox also works well with Gnome. ... Wait a minute ... who said that (ms) IE is a major browser ? ;)
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On 7 October 2010 02:20, Kira elegant.pega...@gmail.com wrote: 在 Thu, 07 Oct 2010 07:59:52 +0800, Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com寫道: I am not sure anymore, but I thought I had read somewhere that Mageia would be a KDE-centric distro à la Mandriva, but still offer Gnome etc. if the user wished to install it. Someone? Marc Never heard about it. Is it someone wrongly take Mageia as Mandriva? Me too, I never heard anyone saying Mageia will be kde4-centric. IMHO, even for kde4 Konqueror shouldn't be the default web browser, it has a lot of quirks. Experienced users who want to use anything other than the defaults do so all the time; the defaults only apply for new users (until they gain enough experience and start customising too). -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On 7 October 2010 07:19, Kira elegant.pega...@gmail.com wrote: 在 Thu, 07 Oct 2010 13:14:46 +0800, Ahmad Samir ahmadsamir3...@gmail.com寫道: IMHO, even for kde4 Konqueror shouldn't be the default web browser, it has a lot of quirks. Experienced users who want to use anything other than the defaults do so all the time; the defaults only apply for new users (until they gain enough experience and start customising too). Might be my prejudice, but Konqueror don't fit into daily usage, after all in the default setting there's Firefox as default browser and Konqueror lacks certain functionality which makes it hard to use. May be remove it from the default set the KDE4 installation set? No, konqueror is still useful as a file manager (some users don't like dolphin for some reason), also as a man pages viewer. Also it shares some code with dolphin (some stuff/features don't work in dolphin if konqueror isn't installed). -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
2010/10/7 Kira elegant.pega...@gmail.com 在 Thu, 07 Oct 2010 13:14:46 +0800, Ahmad Samir ahmadsamir3...@gmail.com 寫道: IMHO, even for kde4 Konqueror shouldn't be the default web browser, it has a lot of quirks. Experienced users who want to use anything other than the defaults do so all the time; the defaults only apply for new users (until they gain enough experience and start customising too). Might be my prejudice, but Konqueror don't fit into daily usage, after all in the default setting there's Firefox as default browser and Konqueror lacks certain functionality which makes it hard to use. May be remove it from the default set the KDE4 installation set? For KDE, probably better choice is Rekonq now?
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On 5 October 2010 04:43, Hoyt Duff hoytd...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Ahmad Samir ahmadsamir3...@gmail.com wrote: If upstream can't accomplish this in their apps, how do you expect downstream to do it? Easy. Both upstream and downstream should obey the $BROWSER environment variable. Yeah, should :) Then you should file a bug report if you encounter non-support of $BROWSER, correct? -- Hoyt Sure, if I can dive in each browser and DE way of setting a default browser. Personally I can't get my head fully around it up till now. -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
Wolfgang Bornath wrote: 2010/10/2 Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org: So I say no to this idea. Asking useless questions just add burden to the user. People that have a preferred browser know how to install it, those that don't do not care enough. Reasonable. Can also be applied to other such things like OOo (LO) vs koffice, kmail vs TB or other such big applications with many alternatives. +1 My thoughts exactly. Salut, Sinner
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
But are we always knowledgeable enough to be able to set up the system to use our choice? I confess to being a Mandriva Linux user for only 10 years but I have been an Opera user (and purchaser) for a year or two before that. I ALWAYS have difficulty when removing Firefox and replacing it with Opera as I can NEVER find all of the nooks and crannies of the system and various software packages which presume that Firefox must be available. I would be much happier to discover that a distribution had taken my choices seriously enough to check with me during the install and then make sure that my choice is properly and fully integrated. Then perhaps we could highlight applications which expect no other browser than Firefox and proceed to educate their authors/packagers as to the importance of user choices. Majority of users do not want choice. OK, that may be true, but when one of that majority decides to broaden the horizons of their browsing experience then will they magically be learned enough to be able to fix all of the integration issues for themselves? I suspect not. An install time selector screen and supporting scripts would be a very good starting point for a Change Default Browser wizard, much as XFDrake tries to hide the complexities of switching video drivers. Richard
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On 3 October 2010 20:19, Richard Walker richard.j.wal...@ntlworld.com wrote: But are we always knowledgeable enough to be able to set up the system to use our choice? I confess to being a Mandriva Linux user for only 10 years but I have been an Opera user (and purchaser) for a year or two before that. I ALWAYS have difficulty when removing Firefox and replacing it with Opera as I can NEVER find all of the nooks and crannies of the system and various software packages which presume that Firefox must be available. I would be much happier to discover that a distribution had taken my choices seriously enough to check with me during the install and then make sure that my choice is properly and fully integrated. Then perhaps we could highlight applications which expect no other browser than Firefox and proceed to educate their authors/packagers as to the importance of user choices. Majority of users do not want choice. OK, that may be true, but when one of that majority decides to broaden the horizons of their browsing experience then will they magically be learned enough to be able to fix all of the integration issues for themselves? I suspect not. An install time selector screen and supporting scripts would be a very good starting point for a Change Default Browser wizard, much as XFDrake tries to hide the complexities of switching video drivers. Richard The point is, such scripts break all the time. e.g. chromium-browser has a make chrome the default browser button, the problem is, it works only under GNOME, but doesn't work under KDE4 or XFCE. It's using a variant of the xdg-utils scripts... xdg-utils is trying to do the huge job of working with all possible desktop environments, this is, by its very nature, a hard thing to accomplish. Firefox also has a make firefox the default web browser, again it works only with GTK/GConf based applications, but it doesn't change KDE settings. If upstream can't accomplish this in their apps, how do you expect downstream to do it? -- Ahmad Samir
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Ahmad Samir ahmadsamir3...@gmail.com wrote: If upstream can't accomplish this in their apps, how do you expect downstream to do it? Easy. Both upstream and downstream should obey the $BROWSER environment variable. Yeah, should :) Then you should file a bug report if you encounter non-support of $BROWSER, correct? -- Hoyt
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
Op zaterdag 02 oktober 2010 12:46:24 schreef Michael Scherer: Le vendredi 01 octobre 2010 à 13:53 -0300, Gustavo Giampaoli a écrit : [...] So I say no to this idea. Asking useless questions just add burden to the user. People that have a preferred browser know how to install it, those that don't do not care enough. +1
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: People that have a preferred browser know how to install it, those that don't do not care enough. -- Michael Scherer True, I'm just lazy, I will always use FF and I would have liked to have it setup at OS install. A choice from a list would have been fine for me, in order to have it installed at the first login already. I.e. to depend on the admin/person that performs the OS install, rather than end-user, that could be the same. There is no distro having all the apps in the world. Some generally preferred (i.e. having enough users of that distro on their side) are always in list. Like Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Konqueror and so. Not all the similar apps made ever in the world. A poll to see if there is anybody interested in some app to come with the distro would be nice. This would make the difference from the good old MDV policy. I truly hope to be possible to propose and vote some apps to be included in the distro. I know it is hard for packagers and testers. I work in this field.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
Majority of users do not want choice. Those of us who want choice are knowledgeable enough to find out how to install $AlternativeSoftware. Salut, Sinner I agree with this statement. Human nature, being what it is, will always look for the shortest and easiest route. Marc
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
2010/10/1 Thierry Vignaud thierry.vign...@gmail.com: On 1 October 2010 04:07, Tux99 tux99-...@uridium.org wrote: While we are at it, why don't we rather include AdblockPlus enabled by default with EasyList+EasyPrivacy filters for Firefox? Blocking off ads and tracking scripts makes Firefox a lot faster too! I've packaged this extension (in contribs) a long time ago so that not every user of a sytem has to install it in its own account. Of course you still have to subscribe to easylist. Which extionsion a user wants to instaall should be left to the user's decision. Make the install easy but do not install any extensions by default. I've never used those extensions, except the developper bar. Somebody told me to install Adblock and whatever, I did and FF became unstable but not one second faster. Maybe because I do not visit many sites with large ads and all that bling-bling stuff. Anyhow, as a rule do not add any stuff by default that the user ought to decide for himself, this is not Windows. We should not tell the user what he wants to do. wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On 1 October 2010 10:44, Wolfgang Bornath molc...@googlemail.com wrote: Which extionsion a user wants to instaall should be left to the user's decision. Make the install easy but do not install any extensions by default. I've never used those extensions, except the developper bar. Somebody told me to install Adblock and whatever, I did and FF became unstable but not one second faster. Maybe because I do not visit many sites with large ads and all that bling-bling stuff. Anyhow, as a rule do not add any stuff by default that the user ought to decide for himself, this is not Windows. We should not tell the user what he wants to do. Then we shouldn't install neither firefox nor konqueror at all since that's a choice that the user ought to decide for himself... Installing the extension doesn't mean neither auto subscrubing nor being unable to disable it
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
2010/10/1 Thierry Vignaud thierry.vign...@gmail.com: On 1 October 2010 10:44, Wolfgang Bornath molc...@googlemail.com wrote: Which extionsion a user wants to instaall should be left to the user's decision. Make the install easy but do not install any extensions by default. I've never used those extensions, except the developper bar. Somebody told me to install Adblock and whatever, I did and FF became unstable but not one second faster. Maybe because I do not visit many sites with large ads and all that bling-bling stuff. Anyhow, as a rule do not add any stuff by default that the user ought to decide for himself, this is not Windows. We should not tell the user what he wants to do. Then we shouldn't install neither firefox nor konqueror at all since that's a choice that the user ought to decide for himself... C'mon, a browser is not the same as a browser extension. Of course there must be defaults. But installing browser extensions by default is too much default IMHO. Same as with mail clients. You should set a mail client by default but you should not add any extensions to this client by default. wobo
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
2010/10/1 Wolfgang Bornath molc...@googlemail.com: 2010/10/1 Thierry Vignaud thierry.vign...@gmail.com: On 1 October 2010 10:44, Wolfgang Bornath molc...@googlemail.com wrote: Which extionsion a user wants to instaall should be left to the user's decision. Make the install easy but do not install any extensions by default. I've never used those extensions, except the developper bar. Somebody told me to install Adblock and whatever, I did and FF became unstable but not one second faster. Maybe because I do not visit many sites with large ads and all that bling-bling stuff. Anyhow, as a rule do not add any stuff by default that the user ought to decide for himself, this is not Windows. We should not tell the user what he wants to do. Then we shouldn't install neither firefox nor konqueror at all since that's a choice that the user ought to decide for himself... C'mon, a browser is not the same as a browser extension. Of course there must be defaults. But installing browser extensions by default is too much default IMHO. Same as with mail clients. You should set a mail client by default but you should not add any extensions to this client by default. wobo Please do not make any extension as default. Even do not paxckage extensions. A user should decide which extension he/she uses. Also, i don't understand why extensions packaged. Day by day extensions updated on upstream. So, packages left behind current versions. Btw, i noticed that Firefox installed in /usr/share/firefox-release-number. I don't know how buildsystem works but when ff updated all extensions must be updated for new install dir. Doesn't this behaviour brings extra workload?
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
Le jeudi 30 septembre 2010 à 18:32 -0400, sorteal a écrit : I'm curious if Chromium has been considered as the default browser? With KDE seeming to be the DE of choice and Firefox having a less than stellar record with KDE integration I find Chromium to be an appealing alternative to Firefox. Just curious. Chromium is a pain to properly package, imho. -- Michael Scherer ___ Mageia-dev mailing list Mageia-dev@mageia.org https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 18:34, Michael Scherer m...@zarb.org wrote: Le jeudi 30 septembre 2010 à 18:32 -0400, sorteal a écrit : I'm curious if Chromium has been considered as the default browser? With KDE seeming to be the DE of choice and Firefox having a less than stellar record with KDE integration I find Chromium to be an appealing alternative to Firefox. Just curious. Chromium is a pain to properly package, imho. Some alternatives could include Epiphany for GTK desktops and ReKonq for KDE... While this mess is being sorted out. -- later, Robert Xu ___ Mageia-dev mailing list Mageia-dev@mageia.org https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010, sorteal wrote: I'm curious if Chromium has been considered as the default browser? With KDE seeming to be the DE of choice and Firefox having a less than stellar record with KDE integration I find Chromium to be an appealing alternative to Firefox. Just curious. I'd much prefer to keep Firefox as default, it is still much more popular than Chromium and since Google as a company is considered highly controversial because of their attitude to privacy, using Chromium as default would antagonize a part of our potential users. Also while Chromium is technically open source, in practice Google discourages community collaboration, see this blog entry from the Fedora Chromium packager: http://spot.livejournal.com/314645.html While we are at it, why don't we rather include AdblockPlus enabled by default with EasyList+EasyPrivacy filters for Firefox? Blocking off ads and tracking scripts makes Firefox a lot faster too! ___ Mageia-dev mailing list Mageia-dev@mageia.org https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev
Re: [Mageia-dev] Talk of Browsers
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Ahmad Samir wrote: A bit off-topic, but first you should answer pterjan's question here[1]: Look at the code and show me a place where any URL is sent to Google. [1] http://lists.mandriva.com/cooker/2010-08/msg00461.php Well, given the size of the source code of Firefox and the fact that I'm not familiar with it, that would be like searching for a needle in a haystack. What I did though is read the specs of the protocol that implements this 'feature' and I must say that it's not entirely clear what information Firefox passes on to Google when contacting the Google 'safe-browsing' databse. The current version of the protocol seems very complicated to me, I'd say unnecessarily complicated, which is not what you would want from a potentially privacy-sensitive feature. ( http://code.google.com/p/google-safe-browsing/wiki/Protocolv2Spec ) The fact remains that when this feature is enabled, Firefox interacts with a Google service, without the user being aware of it. My main point is, any program (not just Firefox) that contacts a remote service (where it's not obvious for the user) should notify the user about this with a dialog box before doing so the first time, asking for the informed consent of the user. In fact this could be a strong unique selling point of Mageia, if we make sure that all Mageia packages are configured by default to respect the user's privacy and to always request consent from the user before connecting to remote services. A slogan could be: Mageia the Linux distro that takes your privacy seriously Drakrpm is a good example on how to do it correctly, since before setting up the list of mirrors it asks the user for consent to contact the Mandriva site to download the list of mirrors.
