[meteorite-list] Trojan And Other Asteroids, Part Two
Hi, All, Having trouble posting. If this a duplicate, delete. Sorry In an earlier post, I pointed out that Venus Trojans would be brighter and easier to spot. Since then, I have been pondering that. We're detecting minor minors at a fantastic (to me) rate these days. There's always the problem of collecting more data than you evaluate, stories of yet-unexamined Viking Mars data tapes crumbling to crackles in vaults somewhere because there's no money to pay somebody to look at them for the first time (don't know if it's true). Every detection has to be re-acquired to calculate orbital elements. Is it done often enough that some one would notice that an orbit was a Trojan? Except for when someone occasionally gets a wild hair about searching for Vulcanoids or intra-Mercurial bodies, astronomers do not willingly work the sky near the Sun for obvious reasons: it' difficult, very hard to do, constricted in observing times, no really dark skies, messy, frustrating and probably worthless. And solar telescopes never look away from the bright god they study. Many volunteers search the SOHO images for comets (all of them?) plunging toward the Sun and are finding them by the hundreds while sitting on their butts in front a computer just like I'm doing now. There are LOTS of objects in the inner system coming and going all the time! Yet, when you turn to minor planet lists you see crowds and crowds of stuff outside the Earth's orbit and very little inside it. You could call the inner system depleted. To me, that doesn't make sense. In countless computer simulations of encounters in the outer system over the decades, most (80%) perturbed objects are ejected from the solar system completely, and some (20%) are sent into the inner system. If 20% of all encounter generated orbit changes send bodies inward and if this persists for the lifetime of the solar system, the inner system should not be depleted of objects. Inner system terrestrial bodies have the the millions of craters to prove it just ain't so. That was then. This is now. The inner system bodies we know of rarely have long-term stable orbital dynamics. You can expect most NEA's to last up from a million to ten million years, a fraction of a percent of the age of the solar system. Therefore, the inner system must be continually resupplied to maintain the reservoir. I think that reservoir is larger than we think. We have been deceived by a selective observer effect. It's hard to search, so we don't search as much, so we don't find, so if we don't find, it ain't there, so we search less, and so on. in a feedback cycle. It was hard to get people to search for NEA's. Then, there's what I call the LeVerrier-Lescarbault Effect. The great discoverer of Neptune, LeVerrier, was convinced by an amateur astronomer, Lescarbault, that he, Lescarbault, had observed the transit of a small planet with an orbit inside of Mercury's, the planet Vulcan. In retrospect, it's clear that Lescarbault's observation, although possibly real, was vague and imprecise, untimed and not of much use, and his equipment was junk, but LeVerrier jumped on the discovery, in which he believed to his dying day, recalculating the orbit and trying to re-acquire it. Don't suppose the lure of being the only man in history with TWO planets to his name had anything to do with that, do you? Since that incident, professional astronomers have a wise and natural reluctance to even think about investigating the inner system for small bodies, understandably, I'll pass on that. The XIXth century is over-run with numerous discoveries of small inner system bodies never recovered, and with that grade of equipment, transits were about your only chance to detect an inner system minor planet. Is EVERY old observation of this kind just a whacko aberration? Probably not. During the 29 June 1878 solar eclipse, two experienced astronomers, Professor James Craig Watson, director of the Ann Arbor Observatory in Michigan, and Lewis Swift, an amateur from Rochester, New York, both claimed independently to have seen a planetary object close to the Sun at totality, about magnitude five or six. These guys were not jerks nor incompetent. Watson was the discoverer of 20 confirmed minor planets (a lot in those days) and Swift was the discoverer of a number of comets some of which you've probably heard of as they bear his name. They knew what they we doing. Both saw a detectable disk, not a bright point. Because their positions for the object differ from each other more than can be accounted for by the Earth distance between Wyoming and Colorado (where they respectively were), that half-degree parallax says to me that they observed a honking big asteroid in the inner system that was actually passing very close to the Earth and only incidentally in line with the Sun at the time of eclipse. Its relative motion could account for some of the parallax, but eclipse totality
[meteorite-list] TEST -- DELETE
NON POSTING TEST. PLEASE DELETE. ONE FINGER -- POW! GONE! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Trojan And Other Asteroids, Part One
Hi, All, Having trouble posting. If this a dulpicate, delete. Sorry. The other web page in my first post about Earth Trojans: http://www.astro.uwo.ca/~wiegert/etrojans/etrojans.html Jerry, it has lots of animated GIF's, nifty diagrams, and downloadable MPEG movies of the dynamics of the Trojan points, along with an explanation that is almost as good as MexicoDoug's! You can't beat all those bright moving colors in an explanation, I always say. And while we've been thrashing the topic of asteroid 3753 Cruithne, to which I will refer to as Crazy Cruithne from now on, to death, the REALLY interesting thing to me I found on that site (above) was a detection image of what may turn out to be a true Earth Trojan! (You have to track one a long time to be sure.) A real Earth Trojan. That would be wonderful if verified. They don't give the magnitude of the potential Trojan object, but since they're using the big Canada-France-Hawaii telescope, I eyeball it by comparison with fainter objects in the frame at perhaps magnitude 21 or so? That would make it about 300 to 600 meters, roughly. But I'm guessing. They search 9 or 10 square degrees of sky (because of those loopy halo orbits) and at this scale, that's a lot of territory to cover searching by tiny, tiny patches. They don't say how much of that territory they've covered, searching for an always moving target, and don't say if they continue to search. If you've ever had the experience of inadvertently losing your way while examining something under a high power microscope, you know what I mean. Where did it go?!! I once had a choice summer job at my school, a temporary electron microscope operator. If you think it's easy to get lost at 500X, try 50,000X! Incredibly frustrating when it occurs to you that it's like searching a square kilometer area one or two square centimeters at a time! Of course, my boss only did that a few times, and only to impress on my youthful ego how little I really knew (very necessary), then set me on simpler routine tasks at lower powers and gave the important jobs to the real operators. Most of them didn't know an electron from a Buick, but they could tickle those cranky old machines -- they had the feel. I didn't. I was a crackerjack calibrator, though. Picky, picky, picky. Knowing how an electron thinks helps, too. Magnitude is a whacky unit of measure. When old Ptolemy made the first star chart in all of history (that we know of), he naturally wanted to indicate the relative brightness of the individual stars compared to each other. It wouldn't be very useful to puts lots of equally tiny dots all over the first skymap. But stars are points on the sky, no matter how bright, so you can't make the brightest ones huge fat blobs. He knew of course that a dot twice the size of another dot had PI times as much area and so could indicate a star PI times as bright, but that was too big a step and then the biggest dots weren't big enough. Close, but not quite right. You don't need to make a dot twice as big for people to see easily and intuitively that one is bigger than another. A 50% or so increase in diameter is enough for that. Besides, PI was a mysterious thing to the Greeks, a religious mystery if you were a Pythagorean, and IRRATIONAL. The Greeks just hated that. Ptolemy was estimating the stellar brightnesses by eyeballing and comparing them. Great astronomer; no telescope. He knows he can reliably group stars by brightness when one is about 2.5 times brighter or dimmer than another, so he stages up the size of the dots to correspond to a scale of magnitude in which each increase in one magnitude is a star 2.5 times brighter than a star with next smallest dot on The Great Chart. In so doing, he invents the first logarithmic or power scale in human history! I don't think he appreciated what he did or how useful the notion of logarithmic scales could be. Of course, maybe he did, but kept it his own little secret, as there are stories that other scholars brought him hard messy numerical problems to which he would smilingly hand back the answer to the next day. No problemo. Glad to help out, Anaximos, old buddy. A good trick always helps your reputation as a genius, you know... OK, he got that whole structure of the solar system thing wrong... Hey! Nobody's perfect. The modern magnitude scale is based on powers of 2.512, a snap to calculate with cheap modern calculators. In the old days there were tables of magnitude to luminosity conversion in fine print by the 0.1 magnitude step, with little rows off to the side to interpolate the 0.01 steps, just like there were for regular logarithms. That was in the era when a simple four function calculator like you can buy for 99 cents in the Dollar Store or Target today cost $1500 straight from Remington Rand! (And couldn't have done the job, anyway.) Sterling K. Webb
[meteorite-list] POSTING ABOUT POSTING TO THE LIST
Hi, Posted in the hope it helps somebody with the same problem. Invariably, every month or so, somebody posts, saying Suddenly, I can't post to the List. Every week or so, there is a posting on behalf of somebody who can't post to the List at all anymore, like John Blennert's with the Oman horror story. Happened to me a couple of months ago. Just happened to me again. But here I am. THE CURE is to go to: http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/options/meteorite-list/ To do this, you have to allow the pairlist cookie to be enabled. They all want into the Cookie Jar, don't they? It's possible my ruthless house-cleaning of cookies may be the reason for my troubles, so give'em their cookie. Log in if you know your password. Request your password if you don't. Once logged in, go down to OPTIONS and click Submit. You don't have to change anything, just Submit. THEN, log out (nothing happens until you do that, it appears), then... You are restored. It's like a magic bullet, a miracle drug, which is wonderful because it seems you have to take The Cure every month or so! It's like the server has Alzheimer's... But it works, if you give it a nudge. Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] 2MASS ALL SKY SURVEY (APOD)
Hi, Awhile back I was babbling about the newly nominated super-dim Class L main sequence stars, whose very existence was discovered by the 2MASS ALL SKY SURVEY (in the 2 micron infrared). Today's (06-26-05) Astronomy Picture of the Day is a huge 2MASS image of the entire universe! Gorgeous! http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html Ok, it's only the LOCAL universe, a mere 1,600,000 galaxies, that's all, all laid out in delicate filaments and long walls to have their snapshot taken. (The stars have been removed; it's all galaxies.) I don't know how many billion lightyears it goes out, but for those who like the BIG PICTURE, it's quite a sight! Definitely worth a glance. Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] givaways,givaways,givaways
Hi and good morning list.What a great day for more givaways.I have a few to givaway.Hey I will even let the infamous 4 get givaways.I do not put down anyone when it goes for free.Well here goes: NWA 1287 12.5 gram slice,NWA 240 28.6 gram endcut,SAU 002 46.4 gram fragment,NWA 2122 12 gram endcut,NWA 2482 0.3 grams,(2)DRAYTON,N.DAKOTA micro's,and finally SPRINGWATER OLIVINE CRYSTALS (15)0.9 grams.Well that's it.But this time I asking for $4.00 priority mail for shipping.It is starting to get a little expensive.Also I posted a picture of the 21 gram sikote-alin w/a hole for my sale.Enjoy and let the chimming ring in.EVEN FOR THE INFAMOUS 4!!Of course I will ship solar system wide. steve arnold, chicago Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] givaways,givaways,givaways
again restart the spam? Matteo --- Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Hi and good morning list.What a great day for more givaways.I have a few to givaway.Hey I will even let the infamous 4 get givaways.I do not put down anyone when it goes for free.Well here goes: NWA 1287 12.5 gram slice,NWA 240 28.6 gram endcut,SAU 002 46.4 gram fragment,NWA 2122 12 gram endcut,NWA 2482 0.3 grams,(2)DRAYTON,N.DAKOTA micro's,and finally SPRINGWATER OLIVINE CRYSTALS (15)0.9 grams.Well that's it.But this time I asking for $4.00 priority mail for shipping.It is starting to get a little expensive.Also I posted a picture of the 21 gram sikote-alin w/a hole for my sale.Enjoy and let the chimming ring in.EVEN FOR THE INFAMOUS 4!!Of course I will ship solar system wide. steve arnold, chicago Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Main mass no longer available, but....AD
I will be offering some slices of my new AZ find and thought I'd show a better shot of the inside polished to 1500 grit from several different angles. This is a very nice chondrite with a burnt orange interior (L5, S1, W3) There have not been any slices of this new AZ meteorite yet offered and all further info including the name will be released in the next bulletin assuming it will be accepted. Classification is by Lora Bleacher at ASU. The slice pictured weighs 4.6 grams and I will sell it at silent auction with bidding starting at 5.00 a gram. There is very little of this stone so far (800+ grams) and I have all but what has been donated to various places. So don't miss out if you collect Arizona meteorites... http://www.nuggetshooter.com/fimage/4.6tw01.jpg http://www.nuggetshooter.com/fimage/4.6tw02.jpg http://www.nuggetshooter.com/fimage/4.6tw03.jpg Bidding will end on this item at 8:00 mountain time tonight the 26th of June and I will contact the winner at that time, free shipping. Bill Southern IMCA 1552 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] interesting meteorite names
Hello again list.A while ago there was a thread looking at odd meteorite names.Like PIGICK,BUCKELBOO,etc.Well I was going thru the natural history's database looking up different specimens, and I came up with this oodity:FUC BIN!An L5 from vietnam.It guess it is also spelled;PHOUC BINH!But the database gave me fuc bin.Oh well!Any other weird names out there? steve Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Test- delete
Test - deleteConsigue aquí las mejores y mas recientes ofertas de trabajo EE.UU. Clic aquí __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] test - delete
test - deleteMSN Latino: el sitio MSN para los hispanos en EE.UU. ¡Visítanos hoy! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2MASS ALL SKY SURVEY (APOD)
Cosmic cellular structure! - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:15 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] 2MASS ALL SKY SURVEY (APOD) Hi, Awhile back I was babbling about the newly nominated super-dim Class L main sequence stars, whose very existence was discovered by the 2MASS ALL SKY SURVEY (in the 2 micron infrared). Today's (06-26-05) Astronomy Picture of the Day is a huge 2MASS image of the entire universe! Gorgeous! http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html Ok, it's only the LOCAL universe, a mere 1,600,000 galaxies, that's all, all laid out in delicate filaments and long walls to have their snapshot taken. (The stars have been removed; it's all galaxies.) I don't know how many billion lightyears it goes out, but for those who like the BIG PICTURE, it's quite a sight! Definitely worth a glance. Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Main Mass Monday reminder!!!
Greetings. Just wanted to refresh everyones memories about my NWA eucrite Main Mass Monday Sale that ends tomorrow night, Monday. Check out the rare, beautiful, crusted and a few one of a kind NWA eucrite Main Masses that I have up for auction. Thanks, Dave. eBay ID:indy1996 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] test - delete
test - deleteVisita MSN Latino Noticias: Todo lo que pasa en el mundo y en tu país, ¡en tu idioma! Clic aquí __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Earth Trojan asteroids
Streling K. Webb wrote: During the 29 June 1878 solar eclipse, two experienced astronomers, Professor James Craig Watson, director of the Ann Arbor Observatory in Michigan, and Lewis Swift, an amateur from Rochester, New York, both claimed independently to have seen a planetary object close to the Sun at totality, about magnitude five or six. These guys were not jerks nor incompetent. Watson was the discoverer of 20 confirmed minor planets (a lot in those days) and Swift was the discoverer of a number of comets some of which you've probably heard of. They knew what they we doing. Both saw a detectable disk, not a bright point. Because their positions for the object differ from each other more than can be accounted for by the Earth distance between Wyoming and Colorado (where they respectively were), the half-degree parallax says to me that they observed a honking big asteroid in the inner system that was actually passing very close to the Earth and only incidentally in line with the Sun at the time of eclipse. Its relative motion could account for some of the parallax, but eclipse totality observing time is very short, not long enough to observe relative motion. Did we have a near miss? Sterling and list, if it was real, it was a near miss closer than you realize. A near Earth asteroid passing in the direction of the Sun can be captured. Recall JE002E4, the temporary extra moon of Earth 2002-2004 that may have been a Saturn stage. Francis --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, All, The other web page in my first post about Earth Trojans: http://www.astro.uwo.ca/~wiegert/etrojans/etrojans.html has lots of animated GIF's, nifty diagrams, and downloadable MPEG movies of the dynamics of the Trojan points, along with an explanation that is almost as good as MexicoDoug's! You can't beat all those bright moving colors in an explanation, I always say. And while we've been thrashing the topic of asteroid 3753 Cruithne, to which I will refer to as Crazy Cruithne from now on, to death, the REALLY interesting thing to me I found on that site (above) was a detection image of what may turn out to be a true Earth Trojan! (You have to track it a long time to be sure.) A real Earth Trojan. That would be wonderful if verified. They don't give the magnitude of the potential Trojan object, but since they're using the big Canada-France-Hawaii telescope, I eyeball it by comparison with fainter objects in the frame at perhaps magnitude 21 or so? That would make it about 300 to 600 meters, roughly. But I'm guessing. They search 9 or 10 square degrees of sky (because of those loopy halo orbits) and at this scale, that's a lot of territory to cover searching by tiny, tiny patches. They don't say how much of that territory they've covered, searching for an always moving target, and don't say if they continue to search. If you've ever had the experience of inadvertently losing your way while examining something under a high power microscope, you know what I mean. Where did it go?! I once had a choice summer job at my school, a temporary electron microscope operator. If you think it's easy to get lost at 500X, try 50,000X! Incredibly frustrating when it occurs to you that it's like search a square kilometer area one or two square centimeters at a time! Of course, my boss only did that a few times, and only to impress on my youthful ego how little I really knew (very necessary), then set me on simpler routine tasks at lower powers and gave the important jobs to the real operators. I was a crackerjack calibrator, though. Picky, picky, picky. Magnitude is a whacky unit of measure. When old Ptolemy made the first star chart in all of history (that we know of), he naturally wanted to indicate the relative brightness of the individual stars compared to each other. It wouldn't be very useful to puts lots of equally tiny dots all over the first skymap. But stars are points on the sky, no matter how bright, so you can't make the brightest ones huge fat blobs. He knew of course that a dot twice the size of another dot had PI times as much area and so could indicate a star PI times as bright, but that was too big a step and the biggest dots weren't big enough. Close, but not quite right. You don't need to make a dot twice as big for people to see easily and intuitively that one is bigger than another. A 50% or so increase in diameter is enough for that. Besides, PI was a mysterious thing to the Greeks, a religious secret if you were a Pythagorean, and IRRATIONAL. The Greeks just hated that. Ptolemy was estimating the stellar brightnesses by eyeballing and comparing them. Great astronomer; no telescope. He knows he can reliably group stars by brightness when one is about 2.5 times brighter or dimmer than another, so he stages up
Re: [meteorite-list] interesting Steve Arnold-PLEASE DELETE
Steve and Patient List Members, Enough noise from Illnoise and the Stormbringer! Please post yourself into deep space. Enjoy the ride. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo And NO your givaways and disguised ads do not justify your postings. Your interesting names are only due to your ignorance of other cultures, languages and the state in which your mind exists. BTW it is pronounced quite differently that your mind allows. Steve bashing; ask yourself why! Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] interesting meteorite names
OK, Who has some Fuc Bin. Gotta have it to go with my Chinga. RSVP off line. Thanks, Michael PS: Interesting post, Chicago Steve however, you still need to add a few more exclamation points here and there and to those after your name. Way to go. on 6/26/05 9:41 AM, Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello again list.A while ago there was a thread looking at odd meteorite names.Like PIGICK,BUCKELBOO,etc.Well I was going thru the natural history's database looking up different specimens, and I came up with this oodity:FUC BIN!An L5 from vietnam.It guess it is also spelled;PHOUC BINH!But the database gave me fuc bin.Oh well!Any other weird names out there? steve Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Austin TX meteorite dinner
Those of you who are in the Austin, Hill Country area and have not emailed me about dinner this week, send me an email offlist. -mt -- McCartneyTaylor, IMCA 2760 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] interesting Steve Arnold
Dear Dirk and all other Steve Bashers, I gotta tell you guys I wouldn't miss a Chicago Steve post for all the tea in China. It nearly always brings a hearty chuckle. But it there is one thing more enjoyable, it is the irony of the Steve Bashers I wouldn't miss one of those posts for the world, either. You guys crack me up. I really don't know which is best. I have been on this list since day one and one of the most interesting of the phenomena is what I think of as the chicken pecking behavior that occurs over and over. Frequently, a flock of chickens will pick out what is perceived as the weakest chicken (or maybe just oddest) and the whole damned flock (or, at least the majority) will start picking at it. Of course, this frequently results in eventual death. However, that does not end it they will eventually find another chicken to pick on, and the cycle repeats itself over and over. It is also similar to a shark feeding frenzy with blood in the water. I have a theory that the anonymity or distance, or a wide variety of factors involved in internet group communication somehow results in the triggering of the WEB equivalent of Road Rage. It reminds me of a few weeks ago when Steve posted 4 or 5 (or 8 or 10?) ridiculous posts droning on and on about the same meteorite sale he was conducting and it resulted in 72 attack posts. It had the effect on me of listening to my second favorite comedian, Louis Black (Robin Williams is, of course, the most brilliant comedian ever, but Black will nearly cause me to laugh myself nigh onto death - literally). Every time I would read one of Steve's posts I couldn't figure out if it was more hysterical because of its absurdity or because of my anticipation of the approaching landslide of whining, attacking, mewling protests that would surely be coming as a result. Dirk, I have met and respect you, as I have several Steve Bashers, but REALLY DUDES, you gotta get a grip! or not. Regardless, y'all might be interested to know there are dozens of us out here who really do think the attack pack is as funny as Steve when he gets on a roll. Oh, one other thought here: Steve has, on a few occasions, offered to take on various individuals at the next Tucson Show. Maybe it would be interesting to set up a ring, have some gloves and Steve could go one round with all the more vociferous critics. Naw..that would be TOO hysterical. Best wishes, Michael on 6/26/05 10:34 AM, drtanuki at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve and Patient List Members, Enough noise from Illnoise and the Stormbringer! Please post yourself into deep space. Enjoy the ride. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo And NO your givaways and disguised ads do not justify your postings. Your interesting names are only due to your ignorance of other cultures, languages and the state in which your mind exists. BTW it is pronounced quite differently that your mind allows. Steve bashing; ask yourself why! Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
Hola, since some days I'm unable to open the pdfs of the Bulletins from the Bulletin's homepage: http://www.meteoriticalsociety.org/simple_template.cfm?code=pub_bulletin Anyone else these problems? Help? Also from the new tool, Grossman kindly introduced, I can't open the Met.Bull. Sniff. Buckleboo Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] interesting Steve Arnold
Hi Michael and all, It is refreshing to see your most sensible and humane post to the list regarding the high frequency ad/posts made by Steve. We need a good father figure or judge to appoint himself as to what can and can not be said on the list. What ever happened to your delete key you have so eloquently asked us to you when you don't like list posts? I agree and disagree with your post. Although I don't like to see nasty posts to Steve's oblivious concern to over posting ads to the list (what ever became of Art's poll on ads to the list??) Sometimes the only way to effect change is to keep on the abuser of the system until it sinks in enough that they might actually alter their behavior (in this case a very little bit). I hope that Steve will finally realize that he should only make offerings once in a while (that means one post not repeat multiple posts, like most list members) or that he will have to deal with repeated emails, peckings or what have you, each time he again abuses the system. It seem only fair. Also maybe the list administrator might warn, give time off to list offenders. As you are free to posts and make suggestions (and you often make very sensible ones) so are others who have had enough of multiple ad postings by members who use the list for their own personal selling list. P.S. And Michael, these don't knock Steve posts are making you a little more peckable each time, in case of Steve's demise :-) --AL __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Steve Arnold Landslide
Cap'n Blood wrote: the approaching landslide ... Landslides are usually caused by: - disastrous, stormy weather - erosive exploitation - catastrophic rainfalls .. resulting in: continuous downward falling or sliding of a huge *mass* of soil (this is open to interpretation) or, to keep it simple, why doesn't he do the simplest thing in the world: play by the rules. He will be picked at as long as he *chooses* to violate list rules and as long as he care- lessly provokes and insults serious list members on purpose. Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] nothing but cry babies
Hey to all the naysayers who continue to pound me.I have not, nor will I ever make blantant attacks on people as you are doing to me.Dirk if you do not like what I do,do as mike says, and delete,delete,delete.It just gets insane over all these people who just continue to waste bandwedth on complaining about me.Until you have met,and gotten to know me,keep your dammed comments to yourself.I refuse to belittle my or lower myself to those who have made it a MISSION to continue to make themselves look like asses.It looks like I am going to have to add a few more email blocks.And you know what,I really hate doing it because all the naysayers don't have a life.GET ONE DAMMIT!!!And cap'n blood the exclamations are for you. STEVE Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] More on Trojan asteroids
Hi Sterling, Doug and List, Back from a couple-day computer break and see I missed a flood of Trojan asteroid exchanges. Will try to fill in a few holes: On the subject of phase angles, I note some defensiveness on Sterling's part which means he probably felt I was correcting him when bringing up the subject. Wasn't my intent -- I brought it up only because the magnitude equations are based on solar phase angle and not illuminated fraction. His illuminated fraction information was fine -- I just shifted gears to phase angle in order to compute magnitude. And while an asteroid would dim by a factor of 2.512 to the .64th power from opposition to the Trojan position, since we don't have the foggiest notion what its albedo would be (except that we casually assume it to be like most NEA's or in their range), it is a result of very high precision and only slight accuracy. Agreed. The absolute relationship between asteroid size and magnitude isn't known; however, the ~relative~ brightness change from 0-degree phase to 60-degree phase is what we're talking about, and that relationship has been empirically studied for thousands of minor planets. I don't happen to know what the spread on this function looks like (how fuzzy), but I think it's safe to say that the phase effect more than cancels the factor of 4 brightness increase of moving the asteroid from 2 a.u. opposition to 1 a.u. L4/5. (Can provide the equations off-list for those interested -- too technical for this forum.) I had a lot of fun writing an arithmetic program in BASIC which converted numerical imputs to $tring functions, then digit by digit performing the same grade school arithmetic every child learns, constructing the answer as $tring functions again, with callable subroutines for each (addition, subtraction, etc., even roots) arithmetical operation. I did the same thing as a teenager -- first computing e to a thousand decimal places, and then pi. (Pi is much more difficult -- a subject for another thread, which should definitely move off-list). An interesting comment about Jupiter Trojans that you've probably noticed, but didn't comment on -- Sterling wrote: JUPITER TROJANS EAST a = 4.90 to 5.37 AU e 0.30 and i 40° Lagrangian point L4 of Jupiter: NUMBER KNOWN AS OF MAY 20, 2004: 525 ESTIMATED TOTAL: 1039 JUPITER TROJANS WEST a = 4.96 to 5.36 AU e 0.28 and i 44° Lagrangian point L5 of Jupiter: NUMBER KNOWN AS OF MAY 20, 2004: 352 ESTIMATED TOTAL: 628 I'm not sure what the difference is between number known and estimated total since the number known is certainly greater than the estimated totals, but the point I want to make is that the greater number of Trojans at L4 vs. L5 is not a statistical fluke or measurement bias -- there really ARE more at L4. And I don't think anyone knows why that should be. ... I can't recall the names of 1783 Trojan characters in the Iliad! Despite the size of that tome, I believe you are quite correct. Not to worry -- the 1783+ will never all be named. Only a fraction of them have multi-opposition orbits at this time, and even a smaller fraction have orbits sufficiently well-established for the Trojan to receive a numerical designation (a prerequisite for naming). Since each discoverer (where a discoverer could be an instrument team like LINEAR or NEAT) can currently name only 12 minor planets per year by CSBN rules, it will take some time before they run out of appropriate names. Best, Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
Martin, i'm having trouble too. thought it was my dial up but a friend w/dsl couldn't get it to work either. if anyone has successfully downloaded these, could you send it to those of us who can't? thanks susan patton - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 3:39 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls Hola, since some days I'm unable to open the pdfs of the Bulletins from the Bulletin's homepage: http://www.meteoriticalsociety.org/simple_template.cfm?code=pub_bulletin Anyone else these problems? Help? Also from the new tool, Grossman kindly introduced, I can't open the Met.Bull. Sniff. Buckleboo Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold Landslide
Has anyone stated the obvious? Could it be that Steve is getting off on all this attention? Whether it be positive or negative attention he still gets his rocks off. Frankly Steve, my friend I'm growing a little weary of the Meteorite/Steve Arnold list. I'm sorry, but aside from the occasional chuckle its really not that interesting. So maybe you might consider the probability that you are helping to contribute to the degradation of this list. Possibly? Its very obvious that you like to provoke these bashings here on the list. Now don't confuse that with private threats and the sort, I'm only referring to the public lashings. What Steve, What is so hard to understand about the requests to curtail your spamming? If I bugged the list repetitively over and over and all you got in your inbox was bullshit about me, would you consider the list enjoyable and interesting? I doubt it. You'll will probably never change, but, try and respect the others on this list and then if they continue to bash you the others will take notice. Have a good one ! Bob E. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 3:34 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold Landslide Cap'n Blood wrote: the approaching landslide ... Landslides are usually caused by: - disastrous, stormy weather - erosive exploitation - catastrophic rainfalls .. resulting in: continuous downward falling or sliding of a huge *mass* of soil (this is open to interpretation) or, to keep it simple, why doesn't he do the simplest thing in the world: play by the rules. He will be picked at as long as he *chooses* to violate list rules and as long as he care- lessly provokes and insults serious list members on purpose. Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: Fw: [meteorite-list] interesting Steve Arnold
I want to have Steve's baby. - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] interesting Steve Arnold Dear Dirk and all other Steve Bashers, I gotta tell you guys I wouldn't miss a Chicago Steve post for all the tea in China. It nearly always brings a hearty chuckle. But it there is one thing more enjoyable, it is the irony of the Steve Bashers I wouldn't miss one of those posts for the world, either. You guys crack me up. I really don't know which is best. I have been on this list since day one and one of the most interesting of the phenomena is what I think of as the chicken pecking behavior that occurs over and over. Frequently, a flock of chickens will pick out what is perceived as the weakest chicken (or maybe just oddest) and the whole damned flock (or, at least the majority) will start picking at it. Of course, this frequently results in eventual death. However, that does not end it they will eventually find another chicken to pick on, and the cycle repeats itself over and over. It is also similar to a shark feeding frenzy with blood in the water. I have a theory that the anonymity or distance, or a wide variety of factors involved in internet group communication somehow results in the triggering of the WEB equivalent of Road Rage. It reminds me of a few weeks ago when Steve posted 4 or 5 (or 8 or 10?) ridiculous posts droning on and on about the same meteorite sale he was conducting and it resulted in 72 attack posts. It had the effect on me of listening to my second favorite comedian, Louis Black (Robin Williams is, of course, the most brilliant comedian ever, but Black will nearly cause me to laugh myself nigh onto death - literally). Every time I would read one of Steve's posts I couldn't figure out if it was more hysterical because of its absurdity or because of my anticipation of the approaching landslide of whining, attacking, mewling protests that would surely be coming as a result. Dirk, I have met and respect you, as I have several Steve Bashers, but REALLY DUDES, you gotta get a grip! or not. Regardless, y'all might be interested to know there are dozens of us out here who really do think the attack pack is as funny as Steve when he gets on a roll. Oh, one other thought here: Steve has, on a few occasions, offered to take on various individuals at the next Tucson Show. Maybe it would be interesting to set up a ring, have some gloves and Steve could go one round with all the more vociferous critics. Naw..that would be TOO hysterical. Best wishes, Michael _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dis-interesting Steve Arnold
Mike, Dirk, List: Our meteorite list home boy SSTTEEVYY I need attention from anyone ARNOLD continues to spam the list with his drivel...More giveaways (remember he said he was done with them before his infamous Mexico trip?) Interesting meteorite names..WOW SSTTEEVVYYY, you are lightin' it up man! Anything to try get a response (notice no one replies to your topics, STORMBRINGER...everyone replies to tell you to GO AWAY!)... BIG SSTTEEVVEEYYS next list post: Dear List: It is very hot here in Elgin...I just put ice cubes down my pants which got me thinkin about lemunade(sic) and meteoritesso I went to the store to get some lemuns (Don't they look like meteorites)..anyways, they were too expensive (my generous, great giveaways are killing me), so I bought some Country Time lemunadehave you ever read the ingredients?? It is made with artificalial lemun flavor...but I have Lemun Pledge furniture wax and it is made with REAL LEMUNS!!! SO, I put 2 and 3 together and made 6 by putting a little Pledge in my Country Timewent down real smooth, VERY LEMUNYY, but gave me wicked gas...must be the waxSo list, do you think there is a conspiracy by the lemun people? I alreday did a GOOGLE search, so PLEASE HELP ME! ANY HELP WITH THIS IS APPRECIATED (I can hardly get myself dressed in the morning)BIG STEVE, THE METEOIRTE DOCTOR OF PROCTOLOGY By from sunny and hot Elgin Terry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold Landslide
And Bernd, if we would name an asteroid to honour our Steve, I'm sure it would hit Earth within his next orbit as a global killer. We missed you in Ensisheim! Buckleboo! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 10:34 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold Landslide Cap'n Blood wrote: the approaching landslide ... Landslides are usually caused by: - disastrous, stormy weather - erosive exploitation - catastrophic rainfalls .. resulting in: continuous downward falling or sliding of a huge *mass* of soil (this is open to interpretation) or, to keep it simple, why doesn't he do the simplest thing in the world: play by the rules. He will be picked at as long as he *chooses* to violate list rules and as long as he care- lessly provokes and insults serious list members on purpose. Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] interesting meteorite names
Here are two good ones for you Ssteve: Dumas (a) or Dumas (b) from Texas. JD -- Original message from Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -- Hello again list.A while ago there was a thread looking at odd meteorite names.Like PIGICK,BUCKELBOO,etc.Well I was going thru the natural history's database looking up different specimens, and I came up with this oodity:FUC BIN!An L5 from vietnam.It guess it is also spelled;PHOUC BINH!But the database gave me fuc bin.Oh well!Any other weird names out there? steve Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 Illinois Meteorites,Ltd! website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] nothing but cry babies
The list of naysayers continue to grow. This could result in Steve blocking everyone on the Meteorite List (except Karin Hughes) until he has no one left to talk with. What a pity that would be. Steve, why don't you simply knock of the flood or unwanted e-mail and folks will leave you alone. I made the same suggestion to Tom K. and as you might have noticed, he is a contributing respected member of the list now. Bashem # 2...or #3...I can't remember which, JKGwilliam At 01:42 PM 6/26/2005, Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! wrote: It looks like I am going to have to add a few more email blocks. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Earth Trojan asteroids
Hi, Like old age, capture, at least orbital capture, is better than the other most likely alternative, they being, respectively, death and impact! Sterling Francis Graham wrote: Sterling and list, if it was real, it was a near miss closer than you realize. A near Earth asteroid passing in the direction of the Sun can be captured. Recall JE002E4, the temporary extra moon of Earth 2002-2004 that may have been a Saturn stage. Francis Streling K. Webb wrote: During the 29 June 1878 solar eclipse, two experienced astronomers, Professor James Craig Watson, director of the Ann Arbor Observatory in Michigan, and Lewis Swift, an amateur from Rochester, New York, both claimed independently to have seen a planetary object close to the Sun at totality, about magnitude five or six. These guys were not jerks nor incompetent. Watson was the discoverer of 20 confirmed minor planets (a lot in those days) and Swift was the discoverer of a number of comets some of which you've probably heard of. They knew what they we doing. Both saw a detectable disk, not a bright point. Because their positions for the object differ from each other more than can be accounted for by the Earth distance between Wyoming and Colorado (where they respectively were), the half-degree parallax says to me that they observed a honking big asteroid in the inner system that was actually passing very close to the Earth and only incidentally in line with the Sun at the time of eclipse. Its relative motion could account for some of the parallax, but eclipse totality observing time is very short, not long enough to observe relative motion. Did we have a near miss? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
Hi all, I guess I'm not alone. The new MetBull doesn't open for me either, although it did the first day it was presented and luckily I copied it to my harddrive. All other pdf files work fine so it's not my acrobat reader (I've even reinstalled that to no avail) The older MetBull #85 pdf file opens fine, but not any that are more recent than that. Hopefully they release #89 in original or html format as well, but there doesn't seem to be much consistency to their formats in years past. At least I'll get a hard copy this summer. Let us know if the answer is forthcoming. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
Hello All, I had the same problem, but just figured out that it does work with Internet Explorer but not Netscape 7.2. Hope It Helps, Jason Phillips Rocks From Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com David Weir wrote: Hi all, I guess I'm not alone. The new MetBull doesn't open for me either, although it did the first day it was presented and luckily I copied it to my harddrive. All other pdf files work fine so it's not my acrobat reader (I've even reinstalled that to no avail) The older MetBull #85 pdf file opens fine, but not any that are more recent than that. Hopefully they release #89 in original or html format as well, but there doesn't seem to be much consistency to their formats in years past. At least I'll get a hard copy this summer. Let us know if the answer is forthcoming. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
After reading that some of you were having problems opening #89 as a pdf file, I tried it on two of my computers and it opened fine in both. My desktop is an older Dell 8100 running Windows ME, IE 6.0.2 and Adobe Reader 6.0. My laptop is running on XP Home with Adobe Reader ver. 5.0 and IE 6.0.2. I did, however, get a pop-up message when using the laptop (Adobe Reader 5.0) that if I had a problem with some of the file not displaying properly that I should download and install the newest version of Adobe Reader. Several month ago, I was having problems getting the Met. Bul #89 to open when using my desktop using an older version of Adobe Reader. The problem disappeared when I upgraded the program. Best, JKGwilliam At 02:50 PM 6/26/2005, David Weir wrote: Hi all, I guess I'm not alone. The new MetBull doesn't open for me either, although it did the first day it was presented and luckily I copied it to my harddrive. All other pdf files work fine so it's not my acrobat reader (I've even reinstalled that to no avail) The older MetBull #85 pdf file opens fine, but not any that are more recent than that. Hopefully they release #89 in original or html format as well, but there doesn't seem to be much consistency to their formats in years past. At least I'll get a hard copy this summer. Let us know if the answer is forthcoming. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
Hi List I was able to open it with IE but not Mozilla, so I suspect it just was optimized for other browsers. Mark Ferguson - Original Message - From: JKGwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David Weir [EMAIL PROTECTED]; batkol [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls After reading that some of you were having problems opening #89 as a pdf file, I tried it on two of my computers and it opened fine in both. My desktop is an older Dell 8100 running Windows ME, IE 6.0.2 and Adobe Reader 6.0. My laptop is running on XP Home with Adobe Reader ver. 5.0 and IE 6.0.2. I did, however, get a pop-up message when using the laptop (Adobe Reader 5.0) that if I had a problem with some of the file not displaying properly that I should download and install the newest version of Adobe Reader. Several month ago, I was having problems getting the Met. Bul #89 to open when using my desktop using an older version of Adobe Reader. The problem disappeared when I upgraded the program. Best, JKGwilliam At 02:50 PM 6/26/2005, David Weir wrote: Hi all, I guess I'm not alone. The new MetBull doesn't open for me either, although it did the first day it was presented and luckily I copied it to my harddrive. All other pdf files work fine so it's not my acrobat reader (I've even reinstalled that to no avail) The older MetBull #85 pdf file opens fine, but not any that are more recent than that. Hopefully they release #89 in original or html format as well, but there doesn't seem to be much consistency to their formats in years past. At least I'll get a hard copy this summer. Let us know if the answer is forthcoming. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
Jason, Thanks for the tip, I am able to open it using IE when it wouldn't open using Firefox. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
AW: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
Hi Martin, David, and All, Even if it doesn't open in IE, or Mozilla Firefox, that doesn't mean that you can't download it to your harddrive. Just tried it, and it works fine (right click on the link, and chose download file to... or a similar option). Once downloaded to your harddrive it should open without any further problems in Acrobat 6. Best, Norbert -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Hi all, I guess I'm not alone. The new MetBull doesn't open for me either, although it did the first day it was presented and luckily I copied it to my harddrive. All other pdf files work fine so it's not my acrobat reader (I've even reinstalled that to no avail) The older MetBull #85 pdf file opens fine, but not any that are more recent than that. Hopefully they release #89 in original or html format as well, but there doesn't seem to be much consistency to their formats in years past. At least I'll get a hard copy this summer. Let us know if the answer is forthcoming. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dis-interesting Steve Arnold
Great point Terry, About says it all!!! Best, Dave F. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike, Dirk, List: Our meteorite list home boy SSTTEEVYY I need attention from anyone ARNOLD continues to spam the list with his drivel...More giveaways (remember he said he was done with them before his infamous Mexico trip?) Interesting meteorite names..WOW SSTTEEVVYYY, you are lightin' it up man! Anything to try get a response (notice no one replies to your topics, STORMBRINGER...everyone replies to tell you to GO AWAY!)... BIG SSTTEEVVEEYYS next list post: Dear List: It is very hot here in Elgin...I just put ice cubes down my pants which got me thinkin about lemunade(sic) and meteoritesso I went to the store to get some lemuns (Don't they look like meteorites)..anyways, they were too expensive (my generous, great giveaways are killing me), so I bought some Country Time lemunadehave you ever read the ingredients?? It is made with artificalial lemun flavor...but I have Lemun Pledge furniture wax and it is made with REAL LEMUNS!!! SO, I put 2 and 3 together and made 6 by putting a little Pledge in my Country Timewent down real smooth, VERY LEMUNYY, but gave me wicked gas...must be the waxSo list, do you think there is a conspiracy by the lemun people? I alreday did a GOOGLE search, so PLEASE HELP ME! ANY HELP WITH THIS IS APPRECIATED (I can hardly get myself dressed in the morning)BIG STEVE, THE METEOIRTE DOCTOR OF PROCTOLOGY By from sunny and hot Elgin Terry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Main mass no longer available, but....AD
By the way the tw in those links stands for Trilby Wash, the proposed name As I mentioned the location and other details of the find will be in the next Met Bull. Cheers, Bill - Original Message - From: Bill Southern [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 8:24 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Main mass no longer available, butAD I will be offering some slices of my new AZ find and thought I'd show a better shot of the inside polished to 1500 grit from several different angles. This is a very nice chondrite with a burnt orange interior (L5, S1, W3) There have not been any slices of this new AZ meteorite yet offered and all further info including the name will be released in the next bulletin assuming it will be accepted. Classification is by Lora Bleacher at ASU. The slice pictured weighs 4.6 grams and I will sell it at silent auction with bidding starting at 5.00 a gram. There is very little of this stone so far (800+ grams) and I have all but what has been donated to various places. So don't miss out if you collect Arizona meteorites... http://www.nuggetshooter.com/fimage/4.6tw01.jpg http://www.nuggetshooter.com/fimage/4.6tw02.jpg http://www.nuggetshooter.com/fimage/4.6tw03.jpg Bidding will end on this item at 8:00 mountain time tonight the 26th of June and I will contact the winner at that time, free shipping. Bill Southern IMCA 1552 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
Hi, Remember, Netscape was only Netscape until AOL bought them. All Netscape versions higher than 4.79 are only Netscape struggling valiantly but futilely to get the weakest browser code on the planet, namely AOL's, to work at all. As for Firefox, it too is Netscape, despite chic computer geek gossip about independent developers. It was commissioned and paid for by Netscape against the day when they have to admit that they can't get AOL to work, I mean, have to admit they STILL can't get AOL to work. Free, bright and new, Firefox is a way to have millions of people test your shaky and uncertain code without having to actually put your real name on it and suffer any possible consequences for it. Abode Acrobat ALWAYS tells me, I mean, asks me, if I want to check for upgrades, every time it runs while I'm on line. I always do. There rarely are any, but I always accept them. It ALWAYS works under Explorer. After a certain point in market density is reached, there is no point in using anything other than the market dominant software, a fact MicroSoft is very familiar and happy with. I hear Bill is feeling sad and grumpy about how well Google works, so get ready to switch over to MediocreSearch someday. Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls
Ditto and ditto, JKG. It's up and running fine on my laptop. Jerry - Original Message - From: JKGwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David Weir [EMAIL PROTECTED]; batkol [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Problems with the Met.Bulls After reading that some of you were having problems opening #89 as a pdf file, I tried it on two of my computers and it opened fine in both. My desktop is an older Dell 8100 running Windows ME, IE 6.0.2 and Adobe Reader 6.0. My laptop is running on XP Home with Adobe Reader ver. 5.0 and IE 6.0.2. I did, however, get a pop-up message when using the laptop (Adobe Reader 5.0) that if I had a problem with some of the file not displaying properly that I should download and install the newest version of Adobe Reader. Several month ago, I was having problems getting the Met. Bul #89 to open when using my desktop using an older version of Adobe Reader. The problem disappeared when I upgraded the program. Best, JKGwilliam At 02:50 PM 6/26/2005, David Weir wrote: Hi all, I guess I'm not alone. The new MetBull doesn't open for me either, although it did the first day it was presented and luckily I copied it to my harddrive. All other pdf files work fine so it's not my acrobat reader (I've even reinstalled that to no avail) The older MetBull #85 pdf file opens fine, but not any that are more recent than that. Hopefully they release #89 in original or html format as well, but there doesn't seem to be much consistency to their formats in years past. At least I'll get a hard copy this summer. Let us know if the answer is forthcoming. David __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NEA ASTEROIDS, ALBEDOS, AND ORIGINS
drtanuki wrote: Sterling, A question I have pondered. What if an incoming body has no reflectance whatsoever, therefore invisible? Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo A very good question! And a worrying one. The answer to what if there is an invisible potential impactor is: BAD LUCK! A body that makes repeated close passes to the Sun in its orbit will suffer very high surface temperatures. If the body is icy or a comet, it will come alive with the evaporation of its volatiles and brighten, but a carbonaceous body or even a rocky one will darken, more with each passage. The potato asteroid will become a baked potato! And eventually, a charred potato. Bamberga, in the darkest, low-albedo C-class of carbonaceous chondrites, has an albedo of less than 0.05. That's the record low, I think, but Bamberga is in the Belt and doesn't venture near the Sun. Its darkness is from its primordial composition. A similar object that did approach the Sun, would almost certainly darken down to 0.02 or 0.01, which is the same as saying that it would be functionally invisible. Until the very last minute, that is. My first thought was that since a Sun close approacher's orbit would be anchored by the greatest mass in the solar system, it would be very imperturbable, but no, it seems Jupiter does a fine job of causing certain kinds of perturbations, precessing tightly bound solar orbits. One less comfort. So, such a body does constitute a hazard that we can't calculate the likelihood of, and that's worrying. Many think (or thought) that some NEA's may be dead comets or baked once volatile bodies, hence structurally weak and subject to further degradation over time which might mitigate their hazard slightly -- it would be better if they crumbled to rubble rather than smacking our little planet, or anybody's little planet. But, then I ran across a study carried out by ESA's Infrared Space Observatory (ISO). The surfaces of most NEA's examined are rocky and almost entirely free of small rubble, regolith and dust. Why is that important? Because it strongly implies that NEA's originate, not in being perturbed into NEA-style orbits, but acquire these orbits because of recent collisions and mutual impacts that fragment solid bodies and knock every bit of the loose stuff clean off. Thus, the NEA's seem to be former impactors and impactees. They got to where they are because of bad luck. Given the long-term instability of NEA orbits, their run of bad luck is not over. Only now, their bad luck could also be our bad luck... I should stress here that the current professional belief is very strong that NEA's get into Near Earth orbits almost entirely through a long series of perturbations by weak orbital resonances and the action of the Yarkovsky effect of sunlight on their motion, and NOT by collisional mechanisms, which are pretty much dismissed as too rare. These are mechanisms that produce a slow and non-dramatic trickle of outer system bodies to be delivered gently to the inner solar system and become NEA's. But that opinion is flatly contradicted by the ISO study results which show NEA's to be unlike Main Belt asteroids transported gently with all their regolith and surface junk intact. NEA's have undergone some alteration process, almost certain to have been collisional. Another explanation could be that today's NEA's are the depleted remnant of much larger NEA population in the past, one that was produced by a really big recent collisional event or events. I put the quotes around recent because I mean astronomically recent, like half a billion years or less! That's ten percent of the age of the solar system or less. If you're thirty, don't you think of the last three years of your life as recent? That notion, for example, would explain a paradox about Chicxulub (the dino killer, or not, set free by a California jury, as you see fit). Namely, that it's TOO BIG for its recent date. That was one of the strong objections when the idea of explaining the iridium by impact was first proposed. Impacts that large are far rarer than one per 100,000,000 years, more in the one per 1,000,000,000 year class. The upper size estimates for Chicxulub would mean that it might have been the biggest impactor to strike the Earth in several billions of years, an odd piece of bad luck (if you're a dinosaur). And, recent research in Cuba on overturned sediments suggest it may have been an even bigger impactor than present estimates. Additionally, the Chicxulub crater, instead of being a two or three ring basin as originally thought, well, it now develops that there are five rings and probable traces of a sixth. BIG. It's hard to explain how a body the size of Chicxulub could evolve by no other force than weak resonances and the Yarkovsky effect acting over 4,500,000,000 years until finally one recent day it is suddenly plopped into an Earth intersecting orbit and --
[meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires
List, I once asked the List if the Earth could have as yet undetected FAINT[obviously faint enough to have as yet evaded detection] debris rings. I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but, I'll ask the list again to consider this possibility given the various optical phenomena [Kordylewski Clouds, Lagrangian Points,] yet fully explained and the difficulties observing potential rings due to Solar interference for one. By way of a poor analogy, Flying Gnats glow bright when their angle to the sun and our eye are fortunate. At other times of the day you'll swallow or breathe them before you ever see them. Swallows dart around feasting on these tiny critters all day long as they make flight adjustments to highlight their prey. Points of observation are everything. Hope I don't raise anyone's ire. Just love to speculate for fun and profit!! Jerry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] interesting Steve Arnold
I dunno Michael, I can easily understand the amusement you derive from Steve. I also notice how you like to stir the kettle once in a while. Seems like you're trying to see how much spam you can generate in your own honor. What's this new chicken analogy? I thought ducks were your thing. We all know what Steve is up to. It's you I wonder about. Bill PS, Steve thrives on all this as so many have pointed out. Even if Art canned him he'd just do a Matteo. Bill -- Original message -- From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Dirk and all other Steve Bashers, I gotta tell you guys I wouldn't miss a Chicago Steve post for all the tea in China. It nearly always brings a hearty chuckle. But it there is one thing more enjoyable, it is the irony of the Steve Bashers I wouldn't miss one of those posts for the world, either. You guys crack me up. I really don't know which is best. I have been on this list since day one and one of the most interesting of the phenomena is what I think of as the chicken pecking behavior that occurs over and over. Frequently, a flock of chickens will pick out what is perceived as the weakest chicken (or maybe just oddest) and the whole damned flock (or, at least the majority) will start picking at it. Of course, this frequently results in eventual death. However, that does not end it they will eventually find another chicken to pick on, and the cycle repeats itself over and over. It is also similar to a shark feeding frenzy with blood in the water. I have a theory that the anonymity or distance, or a wide variety of factors involved in internet group communication somehow results in the triggering of the WEB equivalent of Road Rage. It reminds me of a few weeks ago when Steve posted 4 or 5 (or 8 or 10?) ridiculous posts droning on and on about the same meteorite sale he was conducting and it resulted in 72 attack posts. It had the effect on me of listening to my second favorite comedian, Louis Black (Robin Williams is, of course, the most brilliant comedian ever, but Black will nearly cause me to laugh myself nigh onto death - literally). Every time I would read one of Steve's posts I couldn't figure out if it was more hysterical because of its absurdity or because of my anticipation of the approaching landslide of whining, attacking, mewling protests that would surely be coming as a result. Dirk, I have met and respect you, as I have several Steve Bashers, but REALLY DUDES, you gotta get a grip! or not. Regardless, y'all might be interested to know there are dozens of us out here who really do think the attack pack is as funny as Steve when he gets on a roll. Oh, one other thought here: Steve has, on a few occasions, offered to take on various individuals at the next Tucson Show. Maybe it would be interesting to set up a ring, have some gloves and Steve could go one round with all the more vociferous critics. Naw..that would be TOO hysterical. Best wishes, Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires
I doubt there is a stable solution for a ring system in a binary planet system like the Earth/Moon, unless possibly they are very close to the Earth. But if they are close to the Earth, they would show up by interacting with geosynchronous satellites. AFAIK there is no difference in meteorite/micrometeorite impact risk for geosynchronous satellites versus those in other orbits. Not sure what connection you are suggesting between a ring system and debris collecting at Lagrangian points. Those seem unrelated to me. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Dawn Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires List, I once asked the List if the Earth could have as yet undetected FAINT[obviously faint enough to have as yet evaded detection] debris rings. I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but, I'll ask the list again to consider this possibility given the various optical phenomena [Kordylewski Clouds, Lagrangian Points,] yet fully explained and the difficulties observing potential rings due to Solar interference for one. By way of a poor analogy, Flying Gnats glow bright when their angle to the sun and our eye are fortunate. At other times of the day you'll swallow or breathe them before you ever see them. Swallows dart around feasting on these tiny critters all day long as they make flight adjustments to highlight their prey. Points of observation are everything. Hope I don't raise anyone's ire. Just love to speculate for fun and profit!! Jerry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEA ASTEROIDS, ALBEDOS, AND ORIGINS
That notion, drtanuki wrote: Sterling, A question I have pondered. What if an incoming body has no reflectance whatsoever, therefore invisible? Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo A very good question! And a worrying one. The answer to what if there is an invisible potential impactor is: BAD LUCK! That notion, for example, would explain a paradox about Chicxulub (the dino killer, or not, set free by a California jury, as you see fit). WHAT A TERRIFIC SENSE OF HUMOR AND WIT. Go man GO! Jerry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEA ASTEROIDS, ALBEDOS, AND ORIGINS
Not knocking comets, you understand, just the way they get stuck with the blame for everything... SEE WHAT I MEAN! - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 8:22 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NEA ASTEROIDS, ALBEDOS, AND ORIGINS __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEA ASTEROIDS, ALBEDOS, AND ORIGINS
I have really enjoyed reading this exchange about NEO, asteroids, Trojans, etc. Even if I have to read the posts several times :-) -Walter Branch __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires
Hi Chris and List, I'm sure there is no connection with the Larangian points then. I do appreciate your response, and yes the Earth/Moon system, being somewhat unique, might mitigate against any such system. Just thought I'd ask one more time to get it out of my system. Thanks. Jerry - Original Message - From: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires I doubt there is a stable solution for a ring system in a binary planet system like the Earth/Moon, unless possibly they are very close to the Earth. But if they are close to the Earth, they would show up by interacting with geosynchronous satellites. AFAIK there is no difference in meteorite/micrometeorite impact risk for geosynchronous satellites versus those in other orbits. Not sure what connection you are suggesting between a ring system and debris collecting at Lagrangian points. Those seem unrelated to me. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Dawn Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires List, I once asked the List if the Earth could have as yet undetected FAINT[obviously faint enough to have as yet evaded detection] debris rings. I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but, I'll ask the list again to consider this possibility given the various optical phenomena [Kordylewski Clouds, Lagrangian Points,] yet fully explained and the difficulties observing potential rings due to Solar interference for one. By way of a poor analogy, Flying Gnats glow bright when their angle to the sun and our eye are fortunate. At other times of the day you'll swallow or breathe them before you ever see them. Swallows dart around feasting on these tiny critters all day long as they make flight adjustments to highlight their prey. Points of observation are everything. Hope I don't raise anyone's ire. Just love to speculate for fun and profit!! Jerry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEA ASTEROIDS, ALBEDOS, AND ORIGINS
Ditto on the several x's Walter but fun enough to stick to it, huh? It's kinda like being attracted to Horror Movies but on a much grander scale! CATASTROPHE VERSUS gradualism. Definitely a 1st round knock out![Just kidding, there's room and mystery enough for both] Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Walter Branch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEA ASTEROIDS, ALBEDOS, AND ORIGINS I have really enjoyed reading this exchange about NEO, asteroids, Trojans, etc. Even if I have to read the posts several times :-) -Walter Branch __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires
Hi, Ring systems (former ones, anyway) have been proposed for the Earth. Go to archives or your own Inbox if you keep as much stuff as I do, and find a two part post by Graham Christensen of The Formation of Tektites from a Terrestrial Ring Arc By J. Hayawardena on March 27 of this year (2005). John O'Keefe postulated a ring system for the Eocene (35 million years ago) that went into orbital decay (forming tektites with each breakup). Hayawardena's ideas are more elaborate. O'Keefe was inspired to his idea by the phenomenon of the Chant Trace of 1913 which appears to have been the sub-orbital decay of many small bodies in a ring around the entire planet, creating one of the largest and most unusual meteor displays of all time. It actually happened, but is largely unexplained. I posted a long description of the Chant Trace event on March 26, 2005, and Graham (it was new to him!) posted the Hayawardena piece (it was new to me!) the next day! Basically, anything orbiting the Earth inside the Moon's orbit is long-term unstable because the Moon perturbs inner objects to increase their eccentricity without limit until they smack into... the Moon! This is why all the gigantic lava-flowed impact basins are on the side of the Moon that faces the Earth and there's so few on the far side. Most of those ancient huge impactors were probably in orbit around the Earth back in its wild and woolly youth! No picture of the Earth taken by any spacecraft near and far away in any wavelength of light or radar shows any traces of an extended dust ring, which is why I kind of doubt any exists. But I do like the thought of a stroll down the beach of an Eocene night by the brighter than moonlight glow of The Rings! Even if they are imaginary... Sterling K. Webb Chris Peterson wrote: I doubt there is a stable solution for a ring system in a binary planet system like the Earth/Moon, unless possibly they are very close to the Earth. But if they are close to the Earth, they would show up by interacting with geosynchronous satellites. AFAIK there is no difference in meteorite/micrometeorite impact risk for geosynchronous satellites versus those in other orbits. Not sure what connection you are suggesting between a ring system and debris collecting at Lagrangian points. Those seem unrelated to me. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Dawn Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires List, I once asked the List if the Earth could have as yet undetected FAINT[obviously faint enough to have as yet evaded detection] debris rings. I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but, I'll ask the list again to consider this possibility given the various optical phenomena [Kordylewski Clouds, Lagrangian Points,] yet fully explained and the difficulties observing potential rings due to Solar interference for one. By way of a poor analogy, Flying Gnats glow bright when their angle to the sun and our eye are fortunate. At other times of the day you'll swallow or breathe them before you ever see them. Swallows dart around feasting on these tiny critters all day long as they make flight adjustments to highlight their prey. Points of observation are everything. Hope I don't raise anyone's ire. Just love to speculate for fun and profit!! Jerry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Earth Trojan asteroids
Ah Hah! Doug!! 1 AU. So there is significance in the 60deg. I guess. At least some mathematical correlation. See rereading does pay off. It's not exactly a Eurika but then again each mind meanders its way toward connectiveness. Meteorites, Lagrangian points, NEO's, comets[evil things], Brad Pitt, and little old me. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Earth Trojan asteroids Jerry F. wrote: Francis and List, could someone help me with the L4, L5 points?? Jerry Flaherty Hola Jerry, L4 and L5: These two zones (it would be a point if it were unstable, but you will see that they are stable and hence, zones) are one AU in front of Earth or 1 AU behind Earth. They are stable: In the case of going co-orbital exactly 1 AU in front of Earth in our orbit (L4), or co-orbital 1 AU behind (L5), Earth, or anything of reasonable planetary size will either pull it back or drag it along. If it is wanders by being pulled back from L4, it gets pushed in an arc right into the Sun, and if it gets dragged along, it gets pulled away from the Sun outwards (both pull and push tangents from 1 AU around Earth are directed exactly into or away from the Sun - draw two equal circles, each that pass through the center of the other to convince yourself). Well hypothetically pushing it into the Sun in front, and then the Sun speeds it up and presto it gets sent right back to where it started from, and when Earth pulls it along then presto the extra distance pulled outward from the Sun slows it down, and the hypothetical deviation pull from Earth is compensated and it falls back into its place - a stable equilibrium. If you like algebra trig instead of my handwaving summary, it is done here: _http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Slagrng2.htm_ (http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Slagrng2.htm) and more elegantly here: _http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Slagrng3.htm_ (http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Slagrng3.htm) Each object has the property, on the case of the Earth-Sun-object, that they have an orbit of one Earth year, locked-step in a dance with Earth until a collision or huge comet/asteroid or even another star happens by...and 60 degrees is a magic number because it creates the equilateral triangle of connections among the three masses - which is why all the planets could have these regardless of size, within reason. Of course, it you placed it exactly at the point L4 or L5 itself and the Universe were just three bodies, it would stand still. But due to influences of other planets and significant asteroids, you can get little halo like oscillatory orbits around the frame of reference of the L-point. Just like pushing a pendulum -it doesn't stop... Pluto wouldn't be a likely candidate to have Pluto Trojans in my opinion since Neptune gravity rules out there, for example...but: did you know that Pluto makes two orbits for every three of Neptunes? It's reasoning just like thiscatching up loss and pushing back gain equilibrium and that is why those two planets will never collide. Saludos, Doug - Original Message - From: Francis Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Earth Trojan asteroids MOON Trojan objects exist. They are the Kordylewski clouds, small faint patches of dust, at the L4 and L5 points of the Earth-Moon system (not Earth-sun system). The Kordylewski clouds have been photographed, and have even been seen by the naked eye under total dark skies. They may be variable in their mass and integrated visual magnitude. Very little has been studied about them, very little is known about their possible variability, nobody has anything like a reflectance spectrum of the dust. They remain the closest things about which so little is known. They could well be the subject of study of any of you who wish to make a contribution to science. One thing is known: unless you are under skies so dark the Milky Way is a BRILLIANT band of light, and the Gegenschein is easy, and the zodiacal light is an obvious swath, unless you are under those kinds of dark skies, you have NO hope of seeing the Kordylewski clouds. Francis Graham --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hola Rob, Wouldn't that be = 2/3's (gibbous) phase = about 66% illumination, and a maximum average sky angle of a comfortable,high 60 degrees max observed angle (+/- the oscillation) ... checking they're equilateral triangles, though intuition might be wrong? Saludos, Doug En un mensaje con fecha 06/23/2005 6:21:15 PM Mexico Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribe: Certainly
Re: [meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires
Thank you Sterling. precise, succinct and poignant as usual. Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Chris Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Dawn Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Graham Christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires Hi, Ring systems (former ones, anyway) have been proposed for the Earth. Go to archives or your own Inbox if you keep as much stuff as I do, and find a two part post by Graham Christensen of The Formation of Tektites from a Terrestrial Ring Arc By J. Hayawardena on March 27 of this year (2005). John O'Keefe postulated a ring system for the Eocene (35 million years ago) that went into orbital decay (forming tektites with each breakup). Hayawardena's ideas are more elaborate. O'Keefe was inspired to his idea by the phenomenon of the Chant Trace of 1913 which appears to have been the sub-orbital decay of many small bodies in a ring around the entire planet, creating one of the largest and most unusual meteor displays of all time. It actually happened, but is largely unexplained. I posted a long description of the Chant Trace event on March 26, 2005, and Graham (it was new to him!) posted the Hayawardena piece (it was new to me!) the next day! Basically, anything orbiting the Earth inside the Moon's orbit is long-term unstable because the Moon perturbs inner objects to increase their eccentricity without limit until they smack into... the Moon! This is why all the gigantic lava-flowed impact basins are on the side of the Moon that faces the Earth and there's so few on the far side. Most of those ancient huge impactors were probably in orbit around the Earth back in its wild and woolly youth! No picture of the Earth taken by any spacecraft near and far away in any wavelength of light or radar shows any traces of an extended dust ring, which is why I kind of doubt any exists. But I do like the thought of a stroll down the beach of an Eocene night by the brighter than moonlight glow of The Rings! Even if they are imaginary... Sterling K. Webb Chris Peterson wrote: I doubt there is a stable solution for a ring system in a binary planet system like the Earth/Moon, unless possibly they are very close to the Earth. But if they are close to the Earth, they would show up by interacting with geosynchronous satellites. AFAIK there is no difference in meteorite/micrometeorite impact risk for geosynchronous satellites versus those in other orbits. Not sure what connection you are suggesting between a ring system and debris collecting at Lagrangian points. Those seem unrelated to me. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Dawn Gerald Flaherty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] fire flies or flying fires List, I once asked the List if the Earth could have as yet undetected FAINT[obviously faint enough to have as yet evaded detection] debris rings. I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but, I'll ask the list again to consider this possibility given the various optical phenomena [Kordylewski Clouds, Lagrangian Points,] yet fully explained and the difficulties observing potential rings due to Solar interference for one. By way of a poor analogy, Flying Gnats glow bright when their angle to the sun and our eye are fortunate. At other times of the day you'll swallow or breathe them before you ever see them. Swallows dart around feasting on these tiny critters all day long as they make flight adjustments to highlight their prey. Points of observation are everything. Hope I don't raise anyone's ire. Just love to speculate for fun and profit!! Jerry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEA ASTEROIDS, ALBEDOS, AND ORIGINS
Hi Sterling Great questions that the researchers really need to hear before they publish to the world about what killed dinosaurs! I do believe more research on the effects of impactors needs to be done so that definitive answers can be found for these and other questions and Tesla can be let off the hook for Tunguska. Mark Ferguson - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 8:22 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NEA ASTEROIDS, ALBEDOS, AND ORIGINS drtanuki wrote: Sterling, A question I have pondered. What if an incoming body has no reflectance whatsoever, therefore invisible? Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo A very good question! And a worrying one. The answer to what if there is an invisible potential impactor is: BAD LUCK! A body that makes repeated close passes to the Sun in its orbit will suffer very high surface temperatures. If the body is icy or a comet, it will come alive with the evaporation of its volatiles and brighten, but a carbonaceous body or even a rocky one will darken, more with each passage. The potato asteroid will become a baked potato! And eventually, a charred potato. Bamberga, in the darkest, low-albedo C-class of carbonaceous chondrites, has an albedo of less than 0.05. That's the record low, I think, but Bamberga is in the Belt and doesn't venture near the Sun. Its darkness is from its primordial composition. A similar object that did approach the Sun, would almost certainly darken down to 0.02 or 0.01, which is the same as saying that it would be functionally invisible. Until the very last minute, that is. My first thought was that since a Sun close approacher's orbit would be anchored by the greatest mass in the solar system, it would be very imperturbable, but no, it seems Jupiter does a fine job of causing certain kinds of perturbations, precessing tightly bound solar orbits. One less comfort. So, such a body does constitute a hazard that we can't calculate the likelihood of, and that's worrying. Many think (or thought) that some NEA's may be dead comets or baked once volatile bodies, hence structurally weak and subject to further degradation over time which might mitigate their hazard slightly -- it would be better if they crumbled to rubble rather than smacking our little planet, or anybody's little planet. But, then I ran across a study carried out by ESA's Infrared Space Observatory (ISO). The surfaces of most NEA's examined are rocky and almost entirely free of small rubble, regolith and dust. Why is that important? Because it strongly implies that NEA's originate, not in being perturbed into NEA-style orbits, but acquire these orbits because of recent collisions and mutual impacts that fragment solid bodies and knock every bit of the loose stuff clean off. Thus, the NEA's seem to be former impactors and impactees. They got to where they are because of bad luck. Given the long-term instability of NEA orbits, their run of bad luck is not over. Only now, their bad luck could also be our bad luck... I should stress here that the current professional belief is very strong that NEA's get into Near Earth orbits almost entirely through a long series of perturbations by weak orbital resonances and the action of the Yarkovsky effect of sunlight on their motion, and NOT by collisional mechanisms, which are pretty much dismissed as too rare. These are mechanisms that produce a slow and non-dramatic trickle of outer system bodies to be delivered gently to the inner solar system and become NEA's. But that opinion is flatly contradicted by the ISO study results which show NEA's to be unlike Main Belt asteroids transported gently with all their regolith and surface junk intact. NEA's have undergone some alteration process, almost certain to have been collisional. Another explanation could be that today's NEA's are the depleted remnant of much larger NEA population in the past, one that was produced by a really big recent collisional event or events. I put the quotes around recent because I mean astronomically recent, like half a billion years or less! That's ten percent of the age of the solar system or less. If you're thirty, don't you think of the last three years of your life as recent? That notion, for example, would explain a paradox about Chicxulub (the dino killer, or not, set free by a California jury, as you see fit). Namely, that it's TOO BIG for its recent date. That was one of the strong objections when the idea of explaining the iridium by impact was first proposed. Impacts that large are far rarer than one per 100,000,000 years, more in the one per 1,000,000,000 year class. The upper size estimates for Chicxulub would mean that it might have been the biggest impactor to strike the Earth in several billions of years, an odd piece of bad luck (if you're a
[meteorite-list] test delete
test - delete¿Cuánto vale tu auto? Tips para mantener tu carro. ¡De todo en MSN Latino Autos! Clic aquí __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] rust bucket
watchout 4 those big brahin megachunx- they will keep you awake at night with their crackling and popping as they rust away. email off list for pix of mine! SNAP, CRACKLE, POP! i will be gradually switching over to yahoo mail (it has 100 FREE megs of storage). please cc to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] China warning
List, Anyone planning on traveling to China, PRC should be aware that the National Relics Protection Law is about to be enforced concerning meteorites. Also exploration by foreign individuals, GPS, external maps (foreign printed, sat. images, etc.), metal detectors, transmitting devices and photographs of sensitive (open to their interpretation) are STRICTLY prohibited. Travel and staying accommodations are also restricted in many areas. Robbery and murder are also a great risk to those that do not speak the language, understand Chinese culture and Local rules and are traveling in remote areas. Absolutely DO NOT travel without the aid of a Chinese friend (but your Chinese friend may be arrested because he is not a licensed tour guide). Think twice unless you want to seriously improve your Chinese over a very long stay in re-education. If anyone should require more information please contact me off list. Sincerely, Dirk Ross..Tokyo Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] interesting Steve Arnold-PLEASE DELETE
Hear! Here! -Shaw - Original Message - From: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Arnold, Chicago!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] interesting Steve Arnold-PLEASE DELETE Steve and Patient List Members, Enough noise from Illnoise and the Stormbringer! Please post yourself into deep space. Enjoy the ride. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo And NO your givaways and disguised ads do not justify your postings. Your interesting names are only due to your ignorance of other cultures, languages and the state in which your mind exists. BTW it is pronounced quite differently that your mind allows. Steve bashing; ask yourself why! Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Dis-interesting Steve Arnold
Steve Arnold is a differnt entity. The Steve of Chicago is not the Steve, the meteorite hunter of the mid-90's Arnold from Oklahoma, unless...he bears THE SAME LAST NAME as the said individual! If this is so, then we have two Steve Arnolds in the same parity of likes with drastically differnt intellects. What a coincidenceI stand amazed if this stands true. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 2:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Dis-interesting Steve Arnold Mike, Dirk, List: Our meteorite list home boy SSTTEEVYY I need attention from anyone ARNOLD continues to spam the list with his drivel...More giveaways (remember he said he was done with them before his infamous Mexico trip?) Interesting meteorite names..WOW SSTTEEVVYYY, you are lightin' it up man! Anything to try get a response (notice no one replies to your topics, STORMBRINGER...everyone replies to tell you to GO AWAY!)... BIG SSTTEEVVEEYYS next list post: Dear List: It is very hot here in Elgin...I just put ice cubes down my pants which got me thinkin about lemunade(sic) and meteoritesso I went to the store to get some lemuns (Don't they look like meteorites)..anyways, they were too expensive (my generous, great giveaways are killing me), so I bought some Country Time lemunadehave you ever read the ingredients?? It is made with artificalial lemun flavor...but I have Lemun Pledge furniture wax and it is made with REAL LEMUNS!!! SO, I put 2 and 3 together and made 6 by putting a little Pledge in my Country Timewent down real smooth, VERY LEMUNYY, but gave me wicked gas...must be the waxSo list, do you think there is a conspiracy by the lemun people? I alreday did a GOOGLE search, so PLEASE HELP ME! ANY HELP WITH THIS IS APPRECIATED (I can hardly get myself dressed in the morning)BIG STEVE, THE METEOIRTE DOCTOR OF PROCTOLOGY By from sunny and hot Elgin Terry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
