Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Jan Ciger]

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 2:56 PM, Johny Canes  wrote:

> Stop attacking me though lol
>

Nobody is attacking you. I suggest that if you want to be taken seriously
then you should stop acting like a petulant, immature child. Insults and
constant profanity whenever something isn't to your liking are not a
substitute for arguments (applies to Valerian as well!). This is not a Call
of Duty where you can just bury someone you don't like in insults and think
it is great fun.

If you want to be treated as a professional then start behaving like one.
Otherwise you are only wasting time of the people who are still trying to
answer your questions (most of which, honestly, could be answered in 10
minutes of googling), despite of your attitude.

Regards,

J.
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Johny Canes]

Stop attacking me though lol


Jan Ciger wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Johny Canes < ()> wrote:
> 
> > Dude shut the fuck up lmao
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How old are you, Johny? 
> 
> 
> *facepalm*
> 
> 
> J.
> 
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Jan Ciger]

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 5:05 PM, Johny Canes  wrote:

> Dude shut the fuck up lmao
>


How old are you, Johny?

*facepalm*

J.
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Sebastian Messerschmidt]

Hi Johny, Valerian



Dude shut the fuck up lmao


refrain from yelling insults, ad hominem and use of explicit language.
...

Cheers
Sebastian





kragnfroll wrote:

Hi Steal

It seems that you're suffering of something call narcissistic perversion.

Everyone spotted you, you won't be able to harm anyone here.

Best you can do is to consult and get treated for it.

Thank you!

Cheers,
Valerian



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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Johny Canes]

Dude shut the fuck up lmao


kragnfroll wrote:
> Hi Steal
> 
> It seems that you're suffering of something call narcissistic perversion. 
> 
> Everyone spotted you, you won't be able to harm anyone here.
> 
> Best you can do is to consult and get treated for it.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Cheers,
> Valerian


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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Valerian Merkling]

Hi Steal

It seems that you're suffering of something call narcissistic perversion. 

Everyone spotted you, you won't be able to harm anyone here.

Best you can do is to consult and get treated for it.

Thank you!

Cheers,
Valerian

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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Jan Ciger]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 12:31 PM, Johny Canes  wrote:

>
> Meh
>
> On first sight this place looks kind of meh. It doesn't seem to facilitate
> anything. Take it from me, I saw this place as an anthill. I wanted to drop
> my shit, get condescended by Robert.


Maybe if you cut down on the ego tripping, rudeness and profanity and
communicate like a normal person and not like a ghetto kid you would have a
different experience. Nobody owes you anything here.


> Why do all these new posters have accents


I hope you like my e-mail accent. I wonder how is my Slovak coming through
on your side? You do realize that probably the majority of the people in
the forum and mailing list are not from English speaking countries?


> and use shitty forum titles that do not lend itself to being searched?
>

Sorry, but the fact that you don't know how to use Google (which indexes
the mailing list archives and thus forums too) or to use the mailing list
archives is not really their fault ...

For example, here:
https://www.mail-archive.com/osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org/

Or simply type in the Google search box:
"I saw this place as an anthill" osg-users

One result:
https://www.mail-archive.com/osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org/msg74117.html

What is not lending itself to being searched?

Regards,

Jan
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[aa...@fosslib.net]

Hi Robert,
I've posted questions here and the past and had wonderful responses from you. 
You've always gave me a response that made me think in order to better 
understand the problem instead of spoon feeding me like an idiot - and I 
appreciate that. I also appreciate how you make a rendering engine that is 
feature packed while relatively easy to use and all at no cost to me.
I guess what I'm really trying to say is thank you for your continued effort 
even though it means you have to occasionally deal with some of the sorts of 
bullshit we've seen on this thread.
An appreciative OSG user,Aaron
-- Original message--From: Sebastian MesserschmidtDate: Thu, Feb 23, 
2017 6:41 AMTo: osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org;Cc: Subject:Re: [osg-users] 
[ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]
Hi,
> Jan Ciger wrote:
>> I encourage anyone suggesting that the list moves to some new shiny thing 
>> XY, because it is better/nicer/more modern/I don't like e-mail/forum/etc to 
>> consider these issues in the future. You are getting free support, so making 
>> the life easier for the project leads like Robert is probably the least they 
>> can ask for in exchange.
> Meh
>
> On first sight this place looks kind of meh. It doesn't seem to facilitate 
> anything. Take it from me, I saw this place as an anthill. I wanted to drop 
> my shit, get condescended by Robert. Why do all these new posters have 
> accents and use shitty forum titles that do not lend itself to being searched?
Still that is a problem not being magically solved by using another 
platform/forum. Most of the new posters are simply no native speakers 
and might have a different cultural background. While this might be my 
opinion, I think that this is simply a mirror of our society: People are 
getting lazy to educate themselves, more and more unpolite and simply 
not able to phrase a complex question ...
And honestly you've shown mre rude and unpolite speech and behavior than 
most people here, effectively serving no purpose but "dropping your 
shit". This is however helping no-one; on the contrary: It might even 
repel those who are willing to sacrifice a share of their spare time.

I personally dislike the forum too, it is a mess compared with a mailing 
list ... but that's maybe me being older than 20 ;-). And you know what 
I did? I became a moderator, to at least help the forum to get a tiny 
bit better...

Cheers
Sebastian
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Sebastian Messerschmidt]

Hi,

Jan Ciger wrote:

I encourage anyone suggesting that the list moves to some new shiny thing XY, 
because it is better/nicer/more modern/I don't like e-mail/forum/etc to 
consider these issues in the future. You are getting free support, so making 
the life easier for the project leads like Robert is probably the least they 
can ask for in exchange.

Meh

On first sight this place looks kind of meh. It doesn't seem to facilitate 
anything. Take it from me, I saw this place as an anthill. I wanted to drop my 
shit, get condescended by Robert. Why do all these new posters have accents and 
use shitty forum titles that do not lend itself to being searched?
Still that is a problem not being magically solved by using another 
platform/forum. Most of the new posters are simply no native speakers 
and might have a different cultural background. While this might be my 
opinion, I think that this is simply a mirror of our society: People are 
getting lazy to educate themselves, more and more unpolite and simply 
not able to phrase a complex question ...
And honestly you've shown mre rude and unpolite speech and behavior than 
most people here, effectively serving no purpose but "dropping your 
shit". This is however helping no-one; on the contrary: It might even 
repel those who are willing to sacrifice a share of their spare time.


I personally dislike the forum too, it is a mess compared with a mailing 
list ... but that's maybe me being older than 20 ;-). And you know what 
I did? I became a moderator, to at least help the forum to get a tiny 
bit better...


Cheers
Sebastian

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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Johny Canes]

Jan Ciger wrote:
> I encourage anyone suggesting that the list moves to some new shiny thing XY, 
> because it is better/nicer/more modern/I don't like e-mail/forum/etc to 
> consider these issues in the future. You are getting free support, so making 
> the life easier for the project leads like Robert is probably the least they 
> can ask for in exchange.

Meh

On first sight this place looks kind of meh. It doesn't seem to facilitate 
anything. Take it from me, I saw this place as an anthill. I wanted to drop my 
shit, get condescended by Robert. Why do all these new posters have accents and 
use shitty forum titles that do not lend itself to being searched?

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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Chris Hanson]

​I agree. SO is pretty good, but it also works better with a larger more
distributed community. I prefer to stick with the mailing list. The results
come up pretty well in searches.
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Eric Sokolowsky]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 4:04 AM, Jan Ciger  wrote:

>
>
> I encourage anyone suggesting that the list moves to some new shiny thing
> XY, because it is better/nicer/more modern/I don't like e-mail/forum/etc to
> consider these issues in the future. You are getting free support, so
> making the life easier for the project leads like Robert is probably the
> least they can ask for in exchange.
>
>
If I could upvote this response I would. :) As much as I like
StackOverflow, it is not the answer for OSG. Making life easier for the
developers (especially Robert) is paramount for this project.

Eric
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Jan Ciger]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 9:34 AM, michael kapelko  wrote:

> Hi.
> I would says from my personal experience that stackoverflow is a great
> place to find answers to common questions and, what's more important, to
> see most upvoted answers.
> Mailing list/forum doesn't have that.
>
> I would also say that moving to Stackoverflow from Mailing list/Forum is
> like moving from self-hosted SVN to Github: the idea is the same, but
> implementation is more convenient (e.g., no need to attach complete files
> where you only need a tiny pull request).
>
> Thanks.
>

You are forgetting that the mailing list is not only for supporting
users/answering questions. For that SO is indeed useful. However, SO is
completely useless as a medium for having a discussion - such as this one.
In fact, such topics get routinely locked there as not being constructive.

Also the mailing list is not a bug tracking system (like the issues page on
Github). Ever tried to have a meaningful discussion using the issues system
there? In fact, that is the part of Github that is the most heavily
criticized and hated, because it is neither a proper bugtracker (lacks more
advanced features to track/assign/classify the problem reports) and neither
a proper discussion forum.

Then there is the aspect of convenience. From my experience as a developer
supporting a few projects, I don't have means nor time to check 10
different websites with 10 different systems every day for what is new and
who needs help. I wouldn't be doing anything else. Email may sound archaic
but it is a great timesaver - because the issue comes to me instead of me
having to search for it. On many forums people are whining that their
questions are not being answered - guess why. If the developer doesn't come
there and read the entire forum every day (super time consuming!), they may
never see it.

Setting up notifications is not really a solution - it still requires you
to context switch, load that page, remember what login you had for that
system, answer the issue - in the same time two or three things could have
been handled already if I was able to use email directly - especially when
I am doing it on my own time. This is why e.g. Github allows to reply to
issues by email as well.

I encourage anyone suggesting that the list moves to some new shiny thing
XY, because it is better/nicer/more modern/I don't like e-mail/forum/etc to
consider these issues in the future. You are getting free support, so
making the life easier for the project leads like Robert is probably the
least they can ask for in exchange.


All the best,

Jan
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Robert Osfield]

Hi Michael,

On 20 February 2017 at 08:34, michael kapelko  wrote:
> I would says from my personal experience that stackoverflow is a great place
> to find answers to common questions and, what's more important, to see most
> upvoted answers.
> Mailing list/forum doesn't have that.

I agree that there are advantages for certain types of FAQ style issues.

However, it's completely inappropriate for more involved topics, very
often we get a thread started on the mailing list/forum that requires
an iterative approach where those with more experience have to request
more information, more tests, and steadily explore the issues that
users are seeing.

Then there are design/implementation testing topics, again a
discussion forum/mailing list is what is required.

I am sure I can come up with other.type of discussion that we
regularly have in the community that are in-appropriate for somethiing
like StackOverflow.


> I would also say that moving to Stackoverflow from Mailing list/Forum is
> like moving from self-hosted SVN to Github: the idea is the same, but
> implementation is more convenient (e.g., no need to attach complete files
> where you only need a tiny pull request).

We can do all our version control work on Github,  We absolutely can't
do all our comminication work on StackOverflow.  It's not a case of
replacing a self managed Subversion repository with a centrally
managed service like Github.

If we were to embrace StackOverflow we would still need to existing
forum/mailing list, you are ADDING an extra avenue of work not
replacing one.  The resource that is most precious for us is not user
time, but the time of people like myself, the ones doing the support.
Splitting support duties over multiple venues is a dreadful way to go,
speading yourself too thinly is a guarentee of burnout and failure.

So SVN -> Github, it's absolutely not the same thing as forum/mailing
list -> Stackoverflow.

Robert.
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[michael kapelko]

Hi.
I would says from my personal experience that stackoverflow is a great
place to find answers to common questions and, what's more important, to
see most upvoted answers.
Mailing list/forum doesn't have that.

I would also say that moving to Stackoverflow from Mailing list/Forum is
like moving from self-hosted SVN to Github: the idea is the same, but
implementation is more convenient (e.g., no need to attach complete files
where you only need a tiny pull request).

Thanks.


2017-02-19 15:09 GMT+07:00 Robert Osfield :

> On 18 February 2017 at 18:49, Johny Canes  wrote:
> > If you are so above the gripes of a newbie then why do the vets flock to
> flame this thread. I am not the firestarter, I have apparently hit a nerve
> of the elite here.
>
> What hits a nerve is that fact you are rude, it's you that are
> embodying what you criticize others of.  You have been asked to avoid
> this type of emotive manipulative language several times but still you
> persist.
>
> The problem is far less the mailing list/forum and far more your
> attitude towards others. Refrain from this attitude and you'll find
> that us elite's are actually incredibly patient and supportive.
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Robert Osfield]

On 18 February 2017 at 18:49, Johny Canes  wrote:
> If you are so above the gripes of a newbie then why do the vets flock to 
> flame this thread. I am not the firestarter, I have apparently hit a nerve of 
> the elite here.

What hits a nerve is that fact you are rude, it's you that are
embodying what you criticize others of.  You have been asked to avoid
this type of emotive manipulative language several times but still you
persist.

The problem is far less the mailing list/forum and far more your
attitude towards others. Refrain from this attitude and you'll find
that us elite's are actually incredibly patient and supportive.
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Johny Canes]

Hi,

Erm nevertheless I am very very charmed by OSG it's just that the General forum 
is a shipwreck.

Thank you!

Cheers,
Johny

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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Johny Canes]

Hi,

If you are so above the gripes of a newbie then why do the vets flock to flame 
this thread. I am not the firestarter, I have apparently hit a nerve of the 
elite here. I really do not care what happens with this forum, I just come here 
for my own stupid egotistical shit.

Thank you!

Cheers,
Johny

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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Jan Ciger]

Hello,

On 17/02/17 20:23, Johny Canes wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> It's a bit of a ruty archaic combo - a phpbb forum backed by a
> mailing list. Nobody has any respect for this place, meaning
> everybody just posts questions instead of searching for a generic
> problem domain.
> 
> Thank you!

What makes you think that replacing the technical infrastructure
(forum/mailing list) will magically fix what is, by your own admission,
ultimately a human attitude problem?

These questions and suggestions about Stack Overflow come at least once
or twice a year - along with the answers why it is not a good idea. Did
you read them? The mailing list is not only for answering developers'
questions.

Best regards,

Jan




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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Robert Osfield]

On 18 February 2017 at 09:05, Johny Canes  wrote:
> Meant no offense,

If you didn't mean to be offensive then don't use offensive language. Simple.

I will call people out for being offensive and manipulative, it's not
an acceptable way to conduct yourselves in the this community. Putting
up with community members who use this approach is pretty well the
worst thing about being part of an active open source community.  YES,
some of what you've written in this thread is an example of this.

So please be polite, be constructive, and re-read what you are posting
to make sure it's not offensive.

Robert.
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Johny Canes]

Hi Robert, 

I think the current way of answering to developers is like.. an anthill. You 
are gratified to see people use your library and most good answers here come 
from you. I think others forumers are discouraged of helping others because 
this forum is diluted into a thin stream of non-generic problems which you 
silently approve or disapprove of. If you don't have a short answer to a topic 
in general it feels like getting the cold shoulder. 

While the examples are amazing, I think the General forum is not very good at 
being a uh community resource. 

Meant no offense, 

Thank you! 

Cheers,

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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Robert Osfield]

On 17 February 2017 at 19:23, Johny Canes  wrote:
> It's a bit of a ruty archaic combo - a phpbb forum backed by a mailing list. 
> Nobody has any respect for this place, meaning everybody just posts questions 
> instead of searching for a generic problem domain.

Your response is classic example of someone who responds with emotive
and manipulative language  when you can't convince others to do what
you want. Please keep such post off the forum/mailing list is they
really aren't helpful to us as a community or to you getting the
support you need i.e. don't be a obnoxious to others that you want
help from.

The mailing list/forum exists for supporting the community.  Sure we
get quite a few posts from developers who really could have easily got
an answer by reading the heads, the doxygen docs, the OSG examples,
the docs on the website, the OSG books or search the web.  Developers
with more initiative will find these examples and rarely post apart
from advanced question.

Sure I woould prefer that all developers had the initiative to get by
without asking so many obvious questions, but the world is made of
many different type of people, some people like do background research
and try to learn things for themselves while others call for help for
the most trivial details.  No matter how much documentation or the
avenues for accessing information there will always be users who ask
questions first.  Such developers will always be more visible in a
community like this, but it doesn't mean they make up the bulk of the
community.

Robert
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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Johny Canes]

Hi,

It's a bit of a ruty archaic combo - a phpbb forum backed by a mailing list. 
Nobody has any respect for this place, meaning everybody just posts questions 
instead of searching for a generic problem domain.

Thank you!

Cheers,
Johny

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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Sebastian Messerschmidt]

Am 2/17/2017 um 1:35 PM schrieb Johny Canes:

Hi,

The forum is great for complaining about your problems, but it is a bit of an 
unmoderated mess. You'd be better off launching a Stack Overflow site made just 
for OSG.
Can you elaborate, what kind of moderation you miss? Currently I'm the 
only active moderator and can perform only basic tasks in my free-time.
There is simply no more time for me than for the spam-filtering, basic 
user administration etc. And I second Robert's opinion. Splitting time 
between two support channels won't work for me either.


Basically most of the oldies here prefer the mailing list anyways, which 
is attached to the forum. So help in terms of long-term forum moderation 
is always welcome.


Cheers
Sebastian



Thank you!

Cheers,
Johny

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Re: [osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Robert Osfield]

Hi Johny,

On 17 February 2017 at 12:35, Johny Canes  wrote:
> The forum is great for complaining about your problems, but it is a bit of an 
> unmoderated mess. You'd be better off launching a Stack Overflow site made 
> just for OSG.

And then we'd need to split out time between support on Stack Overflow
and support here on the forum/mailing list.  What might be good for
you personally can be show stopper for those having to try and juggle
multiple avenues for support.

Robert.
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[osg-users] [ A Stack Overflow for OSG? ]

[Johny Canes]

Hi,

The forum is great for complaining about your problems, but it is a bit of an 
unmoderated mess. You'd be better off launching a Stack Overflow site made just 
for OSG.

Thank you!

Cheers,
Johny

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