Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Silverlight end-of-life is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today - Visual Studio Magazine - Satya Nadella's To-Do List [link http://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-li st.aspx ] - Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Yeah you need to move on from Silverlight that ship sailed in 2009 and even if they wanted to put that broken toy back together again, it would be likely back under the hood of WPF (which is apparently today what they did by putting the WPF band back together - how or what that looks like is something I'd like to see more details on (if its true)). Based of my own interactions with ScottGu has always been He knows, in that i've sat in rooms with him and watched him articulate the needs of the .NET community with freakish accuracy at times on capturing the pulse. The thing that (until now) people need to know is that being a CVP doesn't mean you have unmoderated power within the company, you have some control over your own charter sure but SVP/VP/P dudes still pull the strings. Him being in this new hot seat however does make things smart for the company, as again, i highly doubt he's been unaware of the issues of the day its just not been in his wheelhouse until now. I mean we've all seen a fairly significant change in Azure since he took over, so stuff gets done under his watch IF he has accountability and authority... thats the key :) I'm hoping he's behind the WPF reboot rumours i'm hearing more and more of. He understood better than most about the Silverlight/WPF strategy that was trying to be achieved and i'd say everyone who was in that team didn't doubt his commitment (until Windows team did their bullshit)... I personally think TheGu is finally making the comeback Rocky style.. (but i'm realistic enough to know the myth behind the man is still a bit of showman / myth) and i'm hoping we can all move past this bullshit .NET hate debt that Sinofsky banked and get on with this whole Ux Platform thing... as I AM NOT DOING JavaScript work... i refuse to adopt a language who's best frameworks are set-up solely to abstract you from that language? wtf? first clue you have a problem :) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 6:19 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: Silverlight end-of-life is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today - Visual Studio Magazine - *Satya Nadella's To-Do List* [linkhttp://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspx] - Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg
Re: Migrating TFS
Greg and Greg : +100 to your sentiments. David Kean : does this answer your question? On 12 February 2014 16:54, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.comwrote: I do not think this was directed at me but here goes... Start rant @#$%^ing Microsoft has #$%^ed me and the community on Silverlight, I spent a few years 100% focused on Silverlight at a significant cost in time and money, all now just wasted! Today, I have a client that would 100% fit a Silverlight solution for their line of business (LOB) application, but they are not willing to take on Silverlight because of Microsoft's end of life perspective on the tool. I would agree that it may not be the right cross platform tool for all mobile devices, but I see no reason why MS cannot make a commitment to future releases and ongoing support on Windows, Mac, Windows Phone and Android. I would not do the next version of Angry Birds with Silverlight, but I would do most LOB apps with Silverlight. Microsoft, you have made me angry, you have made my client's angry, you have lost credibility, I do not trust you! Probably more fool me for ever trusting you! Microsoft, you could start to gain some credibility back by restoring Silverlight to its rightful place as the tool of choice for client side development in LOB apps with a commitment to maintain and support it for 20 years into the future. End rant Regards Greg Harris On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg
Re: Migrating TFS
Here's somethinghttp://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspxfrom VS Magazine's website that might be of interest. The article arrogantly lays out a laundry list of things for the new CEO to look at. Unlikely he'll ever see this or take any notice of it, but it demonstrates the level of dissatisfaction that I and others are trying to articulate. This paragraph is number 1 on the list. *1. Patch things up with developers. Let's be clear: killing Silverlight was hugely damaging to relations between developers and Microsoft. Today, Windows 8 development makes .NET developers feel less at-home than they once did, and side loading line-of-business apps is hard and expensive. Not only does Microsoft need to get its developer stack solidified, it needs more transparency around .NET, including an explicit roadmap going out several years. Killing Silverlight and deemphasizing WPF made developers very insecure. Microsoft need to take extraordinary confidence-building measures to make them feel safe and loyal again.* On 12 February 2014 21:21, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: Greg and Greg : +100 to your sentiments. David Kean : does this answer your question? On 12 February 2014 16:54, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.comwrote: I do not think this was directed at me but here goes... Start rant @#$%^ing Microsoft has #$%^ed me and the community on Silverlight, I spent a few years 100% focused on Silverlight at a significant cost in time and money, all now just wasted! Today, I have a client that would 100% fit a Silverlight solution for their line of business (LOB) application, but they are not willing to take on Silverlight because of Microsoft's end of life perspective on the tool. I would agree that it may not be the right cross platform tool for all mobile devices, but I see no reason why MS cannot make a commitment to future releases and ongoing support on Windows, Mac, Windows Phone and Android. I would not do the next version of Angry Birds with Silverlight, but I would do most LOB apps with Silverlight. Microsoft, you have made me angry, you have made my client's angry, you have lost credibility, I do not trust you! Probably more fool me for ever trusting you! Microsoft, you could start to gain some credibility back by restoring Silverlight to its rightful place as the tool of choice for client side development in LOB apps with a commitment to maintain and support it for 20 years into the future. End rant Regards Greg Harris On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg
Re: Migrating TFS
Hi Greg H I certainly agree that Silverlight is/was a great way to deliver impressive apps in the desktop browser. Because it was XAML and C# I barely had to learn anything new, I could sit down and churn it out (once you knocked through all the security walls of course). I know you put a lot of effort into Silverlight, we were all impressed with your timeline visualisation. Does anyone know what the official lifetime of Silverlight is? Have releases and updates simply stopped so that it will quietly go stale and extinct on its own? Is there an official date for end of support? I ask because we are still writing and releasing significant apps and customers are going to ask us if Silverlight is dead (some already have apparently). What's the alternative to Silverlight for delivering browser apps with rich graphics and charts? Have options improved in the last year? *Greg K* On 12 February 2014 17:54, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.comwrote: I do not think this was directed at me but here goes... Start rant @#$%^ing Microsoft has #$%^ed me and the community on Silverlight, I spent a few years 100% focused on Silverlight at a significant cost in time and money, all now just wasted! Today, I have a client that would 100% fit a Silverlight solution for their line of business (LOB) application, but they are not willing to take on Silverlight because of Microsoft's end of life perspective on the tool. I would agree that it may not be the right cross platform tool for all mobile devices, but I see no reason why MS cannot make a commitment to future releases and ongoing support on Windows, Mac, Windows Phone and Android. I would not do the next version of Angry Birds with Silverlight, but I would do most LOB apps with Silverlight. Microsoft, you have made me angry, you have made my client's angry, you have lost credibility, I do not trust you! Probably more fool me for ever trusting you! Microsoft, you could start to gain some credibility back by restoring Silverlight to its rightful place as the tool of choice for client side development in LOB apps with a commitment to maintain and support it for 20 years into the future. End rant Regards Greg Harris On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg
Re: Migrating TFS
Yes its 20years support (silverlight). Nearly all products get 20yr support from Microsoft as it has something to do with overarching Military/Govt contract agreements etc. I'm one of the people that's declared WPF/Silverlight dead and you will not get an official response from Microsoft so you need to let go of that idea aswell. Silverlight is dead as long as the plugin is installable and visual studio can support its project(s) but dead as in future momentum / growth, yes. It''s a Zombie, the body is still moving around but the brain isn't functioning anymore. Just because you're working on Silverlight today doesn't mean anything, I've got 10 guys right now working on WinForms but do we really want to entertain the idea that WinForms is still relevant in future Microsoft roadmaps or should we call it dead and move on. There is no alternative and that's why this crap we have HTML/JS is getting beyond the magnitude of stupidity, as its like the ELSE statement in the IF RIA == Alive logic, it's the retreat point to when good ideas go bad and we have to say out loud Well.. i guess we could go for breadth user experience and ignore depth user experience in our app development. Am I excited at the prospect that Silverlight has no future, no.. i dedicated 3 years of my life to that product and i'm just as pissed if not more pissed off about the stupidity of Sinofsky than probably most people on the planet :) (in fact you can see my back and forth argument with Steve on the weekend https://twitter.com/MossyBlog/status/432319248514289664) I suspect going forward if the rumours i'm hearing are true, that they'll take the XAML runtime from Windows 8 and move the IP down to the Windows 7 via an update or something to that affect. Basically they'll try and get Windows 7 developers to start targeting the new UI namespaces in their UX development which will unlock that bridge between Old and New...resulting in getting Windows 8 pull through ... Now although that will suck initially as it won't help existing WPF/SL solutions that use the old way of doing things it will however at least start to unlock some more possibilities in that area. Having seen a years+ development on WPF and Silverlight for some very expensive products here at work (multimillion dollar deployments etc) I can't say it would be a welcome solution but if they abandon the new namespaces for the existing ones then the will also kill growth for Windows 8 - which isn't an option especially with a new CEO. Again that's just spitball / speculation. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Hi Greg H I certainly agree that Silverlight is/was a great way to deliver impressive apps in the desktop browser. Because it was XAML and C# I barely had to learn anything new, I could sit down and churn it out (once you knocked through all the security walls of course). I know you put a lot of effort into Silverlight, we were all impressed with your timeline visualisation. Does anyone know what the official lifetime of Silverlight is? Have releases and updates simply stopped so that it will quietly go stale and extinct on its own? Is there an official date for end of support? I ask because we are still writing and releasing significant apps and customers are going to ask us if Silverlight is dead (some already have apparently). What's the alternative to Silverlight for delivering browser apps with rich graphics and charts? Have options improved in the last year? *Greg K* On 12 February 2014 17:54, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.comwrote: I do not think this was directed at me but here goes... Start rant @#$%^ing Microsoft has #$%^ed me and the community on Silverlight, I spent a few years 100% focused on Silverlight at a significant cost in time and money, all now just wasted! Today, I have a client that would 100% fit a Silverlight solution for their line of business (LOB) application, but they are not willing to take on Silverlight because of Microsoft's end of life perspective on the tool. I would agree that it may not be the right cross platform tool for all mobile devices, but I see no reason why MS cannot make a commitment to future releases and ongoing support on Windows, Mac, Windows Phone and Android. I would not do the next version of Angry Birds with Silverlight, but I would do most LOB apps with Silverlight. Microsoft, you have made me angry, you have made my client's angry, you have lost credibility, I do not trust you! Probably more fool me for ever trusting you! Microsoft, you could start to gain some credibility back by restoring Silverlight to its rightful place as the tool of choice for client side development in LOB apps with a commitment to maintain and support it for 20 years into the future. End rant Regards Greg Harris On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote:
RE: Migrating TFS
I was another who spend an awful lot of time learning Silverlight. Used it on a major international project going out to a whole lot of clients where we couldn't control the browsers that they use. We'd finally just got on top of all the Silverlight quirks and MVVM when Silverlight was first declared dead. So many hours invested. 1000s of hours per dev. We were majorly peeved. But in hindsight, I understand. XAML looks great when done right, but it's complicated and inefficient to code in. Real devs spent their time tweaking the raw XAML. Not ideal. Then there's the brittleness of Silverlight. One little bug gets through and the whole Silverlight app needs to be reset. There's no recovering by hitting the back button either. It's nearly always a complete restart of the app, and there's no guarantee you're not going to hit that point again. Debugging was crap as well. Oh, let's get fiddler out and see what's going on because the app itself isn't showing anything in the exception handlers. Duh. So now I've moved to MVC with Entity Framework and whatever flavour Javascript library seems to be popular at the moment . Believe me, it's a much happier environment to be coding in. You don't have to bitch as much. One page might fail, but it doesn't bring the entire app down. As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like with any graph generator, but they're pretty good. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 10:31 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Migrating TFS Yes its 20years support (silverlight). Nearly all products get 20yr support from Microsoft as it has something to do with overarching Military/Govt contract agreements etc. I'm one of the people that's declared WPF/Silverlight dead and you will not get an official response from Microsoft so you need to let go of that idea aswell. Silverlight is dead as long as the plugin is installable and visual studio can support its project(s) but dead as in future momentum / growth, yes. It''s a Zombie, the body is still moving around but the brain isn't functioning anymore. Just because you're working on Silverlight today doesn't mean anything, I've got 10 guys right now working on WinForms but do we really want to entertain the idea that WinForms is still relevant in future Microsoft roadmaps or should we call it dead and move on. There is no alternative and that's why this crap we have HTML/JS is getting beyond the magnitude of stupidity, as its like the ELSE statement in the IF RIA == Alive logic, it's the retreat point to when good ideas go bad and we have to say out loud Well.. i guess we could go for breadth user experience and ignore depth user experience in our app development. Am I excited at the prospect that Silverlight has no future, no.. i dedicated 3 years of my life to that product and i'm just as pissed if not more pissed off about the stupidity of Sinofsky than probably most people on the planet :) (in fact you can see my back and forth argument with Steve on the weekend https://twitter.com/MossyBlog/status/432319248514289664) I suspect going forward if the rumours i'm hearing are true, that they'll take the XAML runtime from Windows 8 and move the IP down to the Windows 7 via an update or something to that affect. Basically they'll try and get Windows 7 developers to start targeting the new UI namespaces in their UX development which will unlock that bridge between Old and New...resulting in getting Windows 8 pull through ... Now although that will suck initially as it won't help existing WPF/SL solutions that use the old way of doing things it will however at least start to unlock some more possibilities in that area. Having seen a years+ development on WPF and Silverlight for some very expensive products here at work (multimillion dollar deployments etc) I can't say it would be a welcome solution but if they abandon the new namespaces for the existing ones then the will also kill growth for Windows 8 - which isn't an option especially with a new CEO. Again that's just spitball / speculation. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net mailto:g...@mira.net wrote: Hi Greg H I certainly agree that Silverlight is/was a great way to deliver impressive apps in the desktop browser. Because it was XAML and C# I barely had to learn anything new, I could sit down and churn it out (once you knocked through all the security walls of course). I know you put a lot of effort into Silverlight, we were all impressed with your timeline visualisation. Does anyone know what the official lifetime of Silverlight is? Have releases and updates simply stopped so that it will quietly go stale and extinct on its own? Is there an official date for end of
RE: Authenticating with third party providers in MVC5
Actually, I didn’t have much to do to get it working in MVC as it’s essentially already built in. All you have to do is uncomment some lines of code and then configure the authentication providers at the source. I will take a look at the link you’ve provided in case it does something different. Thanks for that. Interestingly enough, the only provider I had problems with was the Microsoft one. It errored out with a message that Microsoft authentication wasn’t available at this time. My solution: If they want to make things hard, forget about Microsoft. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of William Luu Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 6:36 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Authenticating with third party providers in MVC5 Hi Tony, While I don't know too much about these social/3rd party logins, there's an open source .net library that does what you've implemented. So perhaps download their lib and see if it works the way you expect it to with regards to the logout. See: https://github.com/SimpleAuthentication/SimpleAuthentication Cheers, Will On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I have implemented third-party login in my MVC app. I can log in using google, facebook and twitter. When I click the Logout button, it logs out from my application, but not from the third-party provider. To log out from the third-party provider, I usually need to go directly to that provider’s page and log it out. Is this a normal behaviour that should be acceptable, or is there some sort of call I should be making to get it to log out the third-party provider? Regards, Tony
Re: Migrating TFS
As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like with any graph generator, but they're pretty good. Tony, I'm really curious to see how graphs come out in HTML and JavaScript via Kendo, is it possible to see a sample? Contact me off-list g...@mira.net if it's okay -- Greg
RE: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
FYI that bit.ly link gives a Skydrive error message. The IFTTT link on your Twitter page works fine From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of osjasonrobe...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 5:00 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: [OT] Favourite Coding Album Hi all, thought it would be cool to write a fun blog post with programmers fave albums I used Excel web app survey to create it which is pretty cool http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey Spread the word, will be cool to see the results Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
RE: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey works for me. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 11:54 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: [OT] Favourite Coding Album FYI that bit.ly link gives a Skydrive error message. The IFTTT link on your Twitter page works fine From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of osjasonrobe...@gmail.commailto:osjasonrobe...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 5:00 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: [OT] Favourite Coding Album Hi all, thought it would be cool to write a fun blog post with programmers fave albums I used Excel web app survey to create it which is pretty cool http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey Spread the word, will be cool to see the results Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.comhttp://www.websense.com/
Re: Migrating TFS
I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it .. Original message From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Date: To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Migrating TFS As for the graphs – I’m using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data visualisation tools. They’re ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like with any graph generator, but they’re pretty good. Tony, I'm really curious to see how graphs come out in HTML and JavaScript via Kendo, is it possible to see a sample? Contact me off-list g...@mira.net if it's okay -- Greg
Re: Authenticating with third party providers in MVC5
IMO it shouldn't log out from third party provider. Example: I have gmail open I goto another page and open your app with google login I finish on your page, and logout I should be able to return to gmail and find it still logged in, not logged out by your app. Least surprise. On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I have implemented third-party login in my MVC app. I can log in using google, facebook and twitter. When I click the Logout button, it logs out from my application, but not from the third-party provider. To log out from the third-party provider, I usually need to go directly to that provider’s page and log it out. Is this a normal behaviour that should be acceptable, or is there some sort of call I should be making to get it to log out the third-party provider? Regards, Tony -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
Works for me On 13 February 2014 11:58, Fredericks, Chris chris.frederi...@hp.comwrote: http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey works for me. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Chere *Sent:* Thursday, 13 February 2014 11:54 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: [OT] Favourite Coding Album FYI that bit.ly link gives a Skydrive error message. The IFTTT link on your Twitter page works fine *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *osjasonrobe...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, 12 February 2014 5:00 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* [OT] Favourite Coding Album Hi all, thought it would be cool to write a fun blog post with programmers fave albums I used Excel web app survey to create it which is pretty cool http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey Spread the word, will be cool to see the results Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
Don’t what’s going on there lol Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts From: Fredericks, Chris Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 8:58 AM To: ozDotNet http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey works for me. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 11:54 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: [OT] Favourite Coding Album FYI that bit.ly link gives a Skydrive error message. The IFTTT link on your Twitter page works fine From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of osjasonrobe...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 5:00 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: [OT] Favourite Coding Album Hi all, thought it would be cool to write a fun blog post with programmers fave albums I used Excel web app survey to create it which is pretty cool http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey Spread the word, will be cool to see the results Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts Click here to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
Re: Migrating TFS
+1 for I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it .. On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Paul Evrat p...@paulevrat.com wrote: I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it .. Original message From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Date: To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Migrating TFS As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like with any graph generator, but they're pretty good. Tony, I'm really curious to see how graphs come out in HTML and JavaScript via Kendo, is it possible to see a sample? Contact me off-list g...@mira.net if it's okay -- Greg
RE: Migrating TFS
Telerik have fully functioning demos at: http://demos.telerik.com/kendo-ui/dataviz/pie-charts/index.html If you get their trial, you get all the demo code, so you can fiddle with it to get it to behave exactly the way you want. Each graph also has the code for how they produced the demo at the bottom of the screen. The graphs are more than just rendered images - you can mouseover the points and get tooltips popping up, for example, and there are animations. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Harris Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:21 PM To: Paul Evrat; ozDotNet Subject: Re: Migrating TFS +1 for I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it .. On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Paul Evrat p...@paulevrat.com mailto:p...@paulevrat.com wrote: I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it .. Original message From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net mailto:g...@mira.net Date: To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Migrating TFS As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like with any graph generator, but they're pretty good. Tony, I'm really curious to see how graphs come out in HTML and JavaScript via Kendo, is it possible to see a sample? Contact me off-list g...@mira.net mailto:g...@mira.net if it's okay -- Greg
Re: Migrating TFS
Yeah i'm calling Spacer Problem on your issues described (ie the space between Silverlight and you). Everything you've outlined can be distilled into We haven't yet figured out how deep linking as a concept works because we're used to HTTP handling that burden for us through to Async is hard stuff Devs tweaked XAML because some idiot in the Visual Studio team decided to let devs access XAML natively in the tooling, but forget to check off the performance issues that come with Design vs XAML view. It was a conditioned response to that problem and given XAML was really never meant to be a code centric workflow it just baffles the mind at times as to who was actually in charge of that mission and how they justified it to business reviews we had. Blend was also a huge issue given they had zero time for Ux stabilisation(s) and no real investment was given to that team to make it User Friendly - even thought the target audiences were always that designer with dev experience background(s) who are hyper sensitive to bad Ux (What could possibly go wrong with this vision of the future). Silverlight also had a really crappy onboarding process, where we basically walked up to the entire .NET community, kicked the crutch out from underneath them and kept giving confused looks when they'd keep falling over... that is the whole learning process for Silverlight was spread throughout the web and burried deep within random bloggers who didn't always update their tutorials to breaking changes, silverlight forums and / or some random hack training you on best practices for Silverlight which really had no official sponsorship from Microsoft. As a Product Manager all I had was one question How experienced are my audience? with Silverlight ...level 100 - 300 breakdowns and i kept getting confused starry eyed looks like Why does that matter? .. i needed to know how deep the features were being used, what issues tooling is having with features, which features should we keep investing in and which ones should we depricate etc.. but like most things at Microsoft it was Oooh look Shiney object.. (ie new release each 9 months). That being said, you have the capabilities to do a lot of plausible and high performance driven solutions with but it always came back to You don't know what you don't know and with Silverlight thats its weak legacy but to say it's brittle or it couldn't' do xyz.. you're going to have to accept my pepsi challenge on that one as I see it much differently :) - i was tempted to say But you're doing it wrong but i know how combative that remark can get heheh :) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: I was another who spend an awful lot of time learning Silverlight. Used it on a major international project going out to a whole lot of clients where we couldn't control the browsers that they use. We'd finally just got on top of all the Silverlight quirks and MVVM when Silverlight was first declared dead. So many hours invested. 1000s of hours per dev. We were majorly peeved. But in hindsight, I understand. XAML looks great when done right, but it's complicated and inefficient to code in. Real devs spent their time tweaking the raw XAML. Not ideal. Then there's the brittleness of Silverlight. One little bug gets through and the whole Silverlight app needs to be reset. There's no recovering by hitting the back button either. It's nearly always a complete restart of the app, and there's no guarantee you're not going to hit that point again. Debugging was crap as well. Oh, let's get fiddler out and see what's going on because the app itself isn't showing anything in the exception handlers. Duh. So now I've moved to MVC with Entity Framework and whatever flavour Javascript library seems to be popular at the moment . Believe me, it's a much happier environment to be coding in. You don't have to bitch as much. One page might fail, but it doesn't bring the entire app down. As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like with any graph generator, but they're pretty good. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Thursday, 13 February 2014 10:31 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS Yes its 20years support (silverlight). Nearly all products get 20yr support from Microsoft as it has something to do with overarching Military/Govt contract agreements etc. I'm one of the people that's declared WPF/Silverlight dead and you will not get an official response from Microsoft so you need to let go of that idea aswell. Silverlight is dead as long as the plugin is installable and visual studio can support its project(s) but dead as in future momentum / growth, yes. It''s a Zombie, the body is still moving
RE: Migrating TFS
Alright I pay some of that. Within the corporate environment I was in for the major project, we were also coding on 32 bit machines. We had continuous memory overflow issues, which we raise to MS and were told it wasn't going to be fixed because it was 32 bit issues. Together with the crashes and pauses caused by switching to visual XAML view, development became a major hastle. We eventually had to turn off visual view for stability reasons. As for the async stuff. Yes, async is always going to be hard to debug, but for some reason, it was even harder in Silverlight. Sure, if you get the pattern right you shouldn't have any major problems overall, but having to use fiddler to do simple diagnosis, a third party tool, was bizarre. In the end, when we looked at the stats, we found that developers were heaps less productive with Silverlight than with web apps. It actually took an embarrassing long time for people to get a Silverlight app debugged relative to a web app. What took a week or two to do in web seemed to take a month in Silverlight. We can talk all we want about the reasons for that, and what gaps existed in developer Silverlight knowledge, but the reality was that this became irrelevant with a significant team of developers. It just took them far too long to learn and develop. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:26 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Migrating TFS Yeah i'm calling Spacer Problem on your issues described (ie the space between Silverlight and you). Everything you've outlined can be distilled into We haven't yet figured out how deep linking as a concept works because we're used to HTTP handling that burden for us through to Async is hard stuff Devs tweaked XAML because some idiot in the Visual Studio team decided to let devs access XAML natively in the tooling, but forget to check off the performance issues that come with Design vs XAML view. It was a conditioned response to that problem and given XAML was really never meant to be a code centric workflow it just baffles the mind at times as to who was actually in charge of that mission and how they justified it to business reviews we had. Blend was also a huge issue given they had zero time for Ux stabilisation(s) and no real investment was given to that team to make it User Friendly - even thought the target audiences were always that designer with dev experience background(s) who are hyper sensitive to bad Ux (What could possibly go wrong with this vision of the future). Silverlight also had a really crappy onboarding process, where we basically walked up to the entire .NET community, kicked the crutch out from underneath them and kept giving confused looks when they'd keep falling over... that is the whole learning process for Silverlight was spread throughout the web and burried deep within random bloggers who didn't always update their tutorials to breaking changes, silverlight forums and / or some random hack training you on best practices for Silverlight which really had no official sponsorship from Microsoft. As a Product Manager all I had was one question How experienced are my audience? with Silverlight ...level 100 - 300 breakdowns and i kept getting confused starry eyed looks like Why does that matter? .. i needed to know how deep the features were being used, what issues tooling is having with features, which features should we keep investing in and which ones should we depricate etc.. but like most things at Microsoft it was Oooh look Shiney object.. (ie new release each 9 months). That being said, you have the capabilities to do a lot of plausible and high performance driven solutions with but it always came back to You don't know what you don't know and with Silverlight thats its weak legacy but to say it's brittle or it couldn't' do xyz.. you're going to have to accept my pepsi challenge on that one as I see it much differently :) - i was tempted to say But you're doing it wrong but i know how combative that remark can get heheh :) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: I was another who spend an awful lot of time learning Silverlight. Used it on a major international project going out to a whole lot of clients where we couldn't control the browsers that they use. We'd finally just got on top of all the Silverlight quirks and MVVM when Silverlight was first declared dead. So many hours invested. 1000s of hours per dev. We were majorly peeved. But in hindsight, I understand. XAML looks great when done right, but it's complicated and inefficient to code in. Real devs spent their time tweaking the raw XAML. Not ideal. Then there's the brittleness of Silverlight. One little bug gets through and the whole Silverlight app needs to be reset. There's no recovering by hitting the
RE: Authenticating with third party providers in MVC5
I now have an excuse not to do anything more with it, so I can move on. Thanks for the advice. T. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:09 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Authenticating with third party providers in MVC5 IMO it shouldn't log out from third party provider. Example: I have gmail open I goto another page and open your app with google login I finish on your page, and logout I should be able to return to gmail and find it still logged in, not logged out by your app. Least surprise. On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I have implemented third-party login in my MVC app. I can log in using google, facebook and twitter. When I click the Logout button, it logs out from my application, but not from the third-party provider. To log out from the third-party provider, I usually need to go directly to that provider’s page and log it out. Is this a normal behaviour that should be acceptable, or is there some sort of call I should be making to get it to log out the third-party provider? Regards, Tony -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Migrating TFS
One more thing: I did have a problem with Area Charts. IMO the area charts look superior to simple line charts. But when I implemented the area charts, you can only plot a single y point per x-axis value. This meant that on some of my graphs, it looked terrible as they weren't smooth. Of course, I tried to trick the area chart by adding a lot more x-axis values, but it was never a really satisfying solution. So I ended up moving to a scatter line. Scatter line graphs allow you to plot points on the graph independently of the x and y axis. So I could significantly increase the granularity of chart making the line a lot smoother. But I lost the shading of the area below the line in doing that. It was a bit disappointing. From: Tony Wright [mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:26 PM To: 'ozDotNet'; 'Paul Evrat' Subject: RE: Migrating TFS Telerik have fully functioning demos at: http://demos.telerik.com/kendo-ui/dataviz/pie-charts/index.html If you get their trial, you get all the demo code, so you can fiddle with it to get it to behave exactly the way you want. Each graph also has the code for how they produced the demo at the bottom of the screen. The graphs are more than just rendered images - you can mouseover the points and get tooltips popping up, for example, and there are animations. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Harris Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:21 PM To: Paul Evrat; ozDotNet Subject: Re: Migrating TFS +1 for I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it .. On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Paul Evrat p...@paulevrat.com mailto:p...@paulevrat.com wrote: I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it .. Original message From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net mailto:g...@mira.net Date: To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: Migrating TFS As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like with any graph generator, but they're pretty good. Tony, I'm really curious to see how graphs come out in HTML and JavaScript via Kendo, is it possible to see a sample? Contact me off-list g...@mira.net mailto:g...@mira.net if it's okay -- Greg
Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
Works for me Yeah me too, I put in Gustav Mahler, Symphonies 1-10 boxed set, but the question was biased, because it doesn't make me feel like a coding deity, they're just so arduously long, repetitive and tortuous that it makes perfect company for my daily coding experience.. In fact, if anyone knows of an album that actually turns you into a coding deity then please let the group know -- *Greg*
RE: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Silverlight/Jupiter (Windows XAML) started under ScottGu. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:00 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) Yeah you need to move on from Silverlight that ship sailed in 2009 and even if they wanted to put that broken toy back together again, it would be likely back under the hood of WPF (which is apparently today what they did by putting the WPF band back together - how or what that looks like is something I'd like to see more details on (if its true)). Based of my own interactions with ScottGu has always been He knows, in that i've sat in rooms with him and watched him articulate the needs of the .NET community with freakish accuracy at times on capturing the pulse. The thing that (until now) people need to know is that being a CVP doesn't mean you have unmoderated power within the company, you have some control over your own charter sure but SVP/VP/P dudes still pull the strings. Him being in this new hot seat however does make things smart for the company, as again, i highly doubt he's been unaware of the issues of the day its just not been in his wheelhouse until now. I mean we've all seen a fairly significant change in Azure since he took over, so stuff gets done under his watch IF he has accountability and authority... thats the key :) I'm hoping he's behind the WPF reboot rumours i'm hearing more and more of. He understood better than most about the Silverlight/WPF strategy that was trying to be achieved and i'd say everyone who was in that team didn't doubt his commitment (until Windows team did their bullshit)... I personally think TheGu is finally making the comeback Rocky style.. (but i'm realistic enough to know the myth behind the man is still a bit of showman / myth) and i'm hoping we can all move past this bullshit .NET hate debt that Sinofsky banked and get on with this whole Ux Platform thing... as I AM NOT DOING JavaScript work... i refuse to adopt a language who's best frameworks are set-up solely to abstract you from that language? wtf? first clue you have a problem :) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 6:19 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.commailto:il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: Silverlight end-of-life is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today - Visual Studio Magazine - Satya Nadella's To-Do List [linkhttp://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspx] - Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg
RE: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
Worked on my phone. :) -Original Message- From: David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.com Sent: 13/02/2014 9:09 AM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album Works for me On 13 February 2014 11:58, Fredericks, Chris chris.frederi...@hp.com wrote: http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey works for me. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 11:54 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: [OT] Favourite Coding Album FYI that bit.ly link gives a Skydrive error message. The IFTTT link on your Twitter page works fine From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of osjasonrobe...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 5:00 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: [OT] Favourite Coding Album Hi all, thought it would be cool to write a fun blog post with programmers fave albums I used Excel web app survey to create it which is pretty cool http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey Spread the word, will be cool to see the results Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts Click here to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
RE: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
Enter the Ninja by Die Artwoord. If that doesn't make you a Ninja then nothing will. ;) -Original Message- From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net Sent: 13/02/2014 11:17 AM To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album Works for me Yeah me too, I put in Gustav Mahler, Symphonies 1-10 boxed set, but the question was biased, because it doesn't make me feel like a coding deity, they're just so arduously long, repetitive and tortuous that it makes perfect company for my daily coding experience.. In fact, if anyone knows of an album that actually turns you into a coding deity then please let the group know -- Greg
Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
I put in Steve Ballmer's classic debut album Developers, Developers, Developers. On 13 February 2014 13:17, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Works for me Yeah me too, I put in Gustav Mahler, Symphonies 1-10 boxed set, but the question was biased, because it doesn't make me feel like a coding deity, they're just so arduously long, repetitive and tortuous that it makes perfect company for my daily coding experience.. In fact, if anyone knows of an album that actually turns you into a coding deity then please let the group know -- *Greg*
Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
Worked for me (now listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0feature=kp ) Damn, I love that guitar! On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:00 PM, osjasonrobe...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, thought it would be cool to write a fun blog post with programmers fave albums I used Excel web app survey to create it which is pretty cool http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey Spread the word, will be cool to see the results Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
If only the chicks were really for free! On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:12 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: Worked for me (now listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0feature=kp ) Damn, I love that guitar! On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:00 PM, osjasonrobe...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, thought it would be cool to write a fun blog post with programmers fave albums I used Excel web app survey to create it which is pretty cool http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey Spread the word, will be cool to see the results Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
I put in a request for Satya to do a DEVdevDev remix :^) On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: I put in Steve Ballmer's classic debut album Developers, Developers, Developers. On 13 February 2014 13:17, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Works for me Yeah me too, I put in Gustav Mahler, Symphonies 1-10 boxed set, but the question was biased, because it doesn't make me feel like a coding deity, they're just so arduously long, repetitive and tortuous that it makes perfect company for my daily coding experience.. In fact, if anyone knows of an album that actually turns you into a coding deity then please let the group know -- *Greg* -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
Going to makeup a playlist for us at the end? On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.comwrote: If only the chicks were really for free! On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:12 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: Worked for me (now listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0feature=kp ) Damn, I love that guitar! On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:00 PM, osjasonrobe...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, thought it would be cool to write a fun blog post with programmers fave albums I used Excel web app survey to create it which is pretty cool http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey Spread the word, will be cool to see the results Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
hehe - that made me smile Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts From: Greg Keogh Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 11:17 AM To: ozDotNet Works for me Yeah me too, I put in Gustav Mahler, Symphonies 1-10 boxed set, but the question was biased, because it doesn't make me feel like a coding deity, they're just so arduously long, repetitive and tortuous that it makes perfect company for my daily coding experience.. In fact, if anyone knows of an album that actually turns you into a coding deity then please let the group know -- Greg
Re: [OT] Favourite Coding Album
Hope to - gonna blog the results which should be fun - anyone know if you can create Xbox Music playlists to share (or other ways to create sharable playlists??) Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts From: mike smith Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:15 PM To: ozDotNet Going to makeup a playlist for us at the end? On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: If only the chicks were really for free! On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:12 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: Worked for me (now listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL0feature=kp ) Damn, I love that guitar! On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:00 PM, osjasonrobe...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, thought it would be cool to write a fun blog post with programmers fave albums I used Excel web app survey to create it which is pretty cool http://bit.ly/programmermusicsurvey Spread the word, will be cool to see the results Jason Roberts Journeyman Software Developer Twitter: @robertsjason Blog: http://DontCodeTired.com Pluralsight Courses: http://bit.ly/psjasonroberts -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
inline (but not const) On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:19 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: Silverlight “end-of-life” is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today – Visual Studio Magazine – “*Satya Nadella's To-Do List*” [linkhttp://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspx] – Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. So is COBOL and FORTRAN What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Hope that MS are feeling nice and release it to SourceForge. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. MSJ - used to be a good magazine. Matt Pietrek, Paul DiLascia ( If this code works, it was written by Paul DiLascia. If not, I don't know who wrote it.) were awesome. It's a puff piece now. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. Wix, damnable stuff makes your eyes bleed to read it. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
I wasn’t aware that Scott Guthrie had responsibility for Silverlight and XAML initially. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:28 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) inline (but not const) On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:19 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: Silverlight “end-of-life” is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today – Visual Studio Magazine – “Satya Nadella's To-Do List” [link http://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspx ] – Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. So is COBOL and FORTRAN What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Hope that MS are feeling nice and release it to SourceForge. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. MSJ - used to be a good magazine. Matt Pietrek, Paul DiLascia ( If this code works, it was written by Paul DiLascia. If not, I don't know who wrote it.) were awesome. It's a puff piece now. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. Wix, damnable stuff makes your eyes bleed to read it. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Xaml from the early days of WPF is circa 2002 or earlier. I think the GU was still hacking out ASP.NET on planes as a PM at that time. On Feb 13, 2014 2:43 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: I wasn't aware that Scott Guthrie had responsibility for Silverlight and XAML initially. -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:28 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) inline (but not const) On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:19 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: Silverlight end-of-life is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today - Visual Studio Magazine - *Satya Nadella's To-Do List* [linkhttp://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspx] - Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. So is COBOL and FORTRAN What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Hope that MS are feeling nice and release it to SourceForge. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. MSJ - used to be a good magazine. Matt Pietrek, Paul DiLascia ( If this code works, it was written by Paul DiLascia. If not, I don't know who wrote it.) were awesome. It's a puff piece now. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. Wix, damnable stuff makes your eyes bleed to read it. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
[OT] Anyone encountered NationZoom?
As I have lost my access to the SMBiT Professionals email lists, I thought someone on this one might have an idea of how to remove the browser hijacker browserzoom. A friend has the problem - his laptop was infected in India, apparently. I gather that it is some sort of music downloader, but infects / hijacks browsers. I'm not sure what browser he has installed on his laptop, though (perhaps several). He has Norton AV on his system, and mentioned some Microsoft utility - but these don't work / don't detect it (I'm not sure). _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: I'm hoping he's behind the WPF reboot rumours i'm hearing more and more of. WPF Reboot? I for one can't wait for 2 gigabyte of RAM footprint calculator applications and my GPU shitting itself trying to draw a green square at 3fps. Rich applications are dead. Long live rich applications! http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/ David.
RE: [OT] Anyone encountered NationZoom?
I can't find any hits for browserzoom, but there is a relatively common piece of malware called Nationzoom. Perhaps that it what your friend has? If so, Malware Bytes will remove it (according to the instructions at: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/virus-removal/remove-nationzoom.com-browser-hijacker) Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of ILT (O) Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 3:57 PM To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: [OT] Anyone encountered NationZoom? As I have lost my access to the SMBiT Professionals email lists, I thought someone on this one might have an idea of how to remove the browser hijacker browserzoom. A friend has the problem - his laptop was infected in India, apparently. I gather that it is some sort of music downloader, but infects / hijacks browsers. I'm not sure what browser he has installed on his laptop, though (perhaps several). He has Norton AV on his system, and mentioned some Microsoft utility - but these don't work / don't detect it (I'm not sure). Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia
RE: [OT] Anyone encountered NationZoom?
Sorry, Ken - my typo - NationZoom as the subject says - not browserzoom as in my first line. I'll take a look at bleeping and see what's needed with Malwarebytes. Thx _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 1:24 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: [OT] Anyone encountered NationZoom? I can't find any hits for browserzoom, but there is a relatively common piece of malware called Nationzoom. Perhaps that it what your friend has? If so, Malware Bytes will remove it (according to the instructions at: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/virus-removal/remove-nationzoom.com-browser- hijacker) Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of ILT (O) Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 3:57 PM To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: [OT] Anyone encountered NationZoom? As I have lost my access to the SMBiT Professionals email lists, I thought someone on this one might have an idea of how to remove the browser hijacker browserzoom. A friend has the problem - his laptop was infected in India, apparently. I gather that it is some sort of music downloader, but infects / hijacks browsers. I'm not sure what browser he has installed on his laptop, though (perhaps several). He has Norton AV on his system, and mentioned some Microsoft utility - but these don't work / don't detect it (I'm not sure). _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia
