RE: Mark II
Regarding RT ... http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/9/25/4769492/dell-drops-windows-rt-xps-10-tablet ... and then there was one. On 25 Sep 2013 10:32, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com wrote: The ‘problem’ they’re trying to solve (as I understand it) is not keeping up with the Jones’ in terms of easy it is for the average J. Doe to download things from Apple’s App Store with confidence that it won’t contain malware or corrupt their system. Not a bad thing in itself, but the mistake (as I understand) it is forcing it as the ‘one true path’ at the expense of the general desktop experience. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 September 2013 9:29 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Mark II ** ** On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 .. ** ** You're dead right. Moreover I don't really know what problem the Windows 8 app store is solving. It has never been hard to obtain/install software for Windows. ** ** The app store on iPhone was revolutionary because it was a total PITA to get apps onto a phone prior to it and the quality of what was there (syncing apps onto Windows Mobile etc) was pretty bad. ** ** David. ** ** ** ** ** ** Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
Re: Mark II
...Windows RT was our first ARM tablet. And as phones extend into tablets, expect us to see many more ARM tablets, Windows ARM tablets in the future... which translates to Trust us, when have we ever told you something is our future and retracted or 'shifted strategy' on :) I'd sell my ARM stock(s) :) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:44 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: Regarding RT ... http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/9/25/4769492/dell-drops-windows-rt-xps-10-tablet ... and then there was one. On 25 Sep 2013 10:32, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com wrote: The ‘problem’ they’re trying to solve (as I understand it) is not keeping up with the Jones’ in terms of easy it is for the average J. Doe to download things from Apple’s App Store with confidence that it won’t contain malware or corrupt their system. Not a bad thing in itself, but the mistake (as I understand) it is forcing it as the ‘one true path’ at the expense of the general desktop experience. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 September 2013 9:29 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Mark II ** ** On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 .. ** ** You're dead right. Moreover I don't really know what problem the Windows 8 app store is solving. It has never been hard to obtain/install software for Windows. ** ** The app store on iPhone was revolutionary because it was a total PITA to get apps onto a phone prior to it and the quality of what was there (syncing apps onto Windows Mobile etc) was pretty bad. ** ** David. ** ** ** ** ** ** Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
Re: Mark II
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: ...Windows RT was our first ARM tablet. And as phones extend into tablets, expect us to see many more ARM tablets, Windows ARM tablets in the future... which translates to Trust us, when have we ever told you something is our future and retracted or 'shifted strategy' on :) Where to start? DCOM?? I'd sell my ARM stock(s) :) No. Most of the better selling phones and tablets are using ARM tech. Its just not running Windows (or Blackberry) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:44 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: Regarding RT ... http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/9/25/4769492/dell-drops-windows-rt-xps-10-tablet ... and then there was one. On 25 Sep 2013 10:32, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com wrote: The ‘problem’ they’re trying to solve (as I understand it) is not keeping up with the Jones’ in terms of easy it is for the average J. Doe to download things from Apple’s App Store with confidence that it won’t contain malware or corrupt their system. Not a bad thing in itself, but the mistake (as I understand) it is forcing it as the ‘one true path’ at the expense of the general desktop experience. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 September 2013 9:29 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Mark II ** ** On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 .. ** ** You're dead right. Moreover I don't really know what problem the Windows 8 app store is solving. It has never been hard to obtain/install software for Windows. ** ** The app store on iPhone was revolutionary because it was a total PITA to get apps onto a phone prior to it and the quality of what was there (syncing apps onto Windows Mobile etc) was pretty bad. ** ** David. ** ** ** ** ** ** Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Mark II
It makes sense people are not buying RT devices. Why get a device that looks and acts like Windows but isn't quite windows. Windows Pro on a tablet makes much more sense. Surface 2 (if I didn't just get me Samsungs awesome Book 9 Plus - QHD AND touchscreen) would be worth having. I still prefer the Asus detachable screen over the tablet + keyboard lid. The battery in the keyboard may change my opinion on that but probably won't be enough for me to get one I don't think. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:35 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: ...Windows RT was our first ARM tablet. And as phones extend into tablets, expect us to see many more ARM tablets, Windows ARM tablets in the future... which translates to Trust us, when have we ever told you something is our future and retracted or 'shifted strategy' on :) Where to start? DCOM?? I'd sell my ARM stock(s) :) No. Most of the better selling phones and tablets are using ARM tech. Its just not running Windows (or Blackberry) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:44 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: Regarding RT ... http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/9/25/4769492/dell-drops-windows-rt-xps-10-tablet ... and then there was one. On 25 Sep 2013 10:32, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com wrote: The ‘problem’ they’re trying to solve (as I understand it) is not keeping up with the Jones’ in terms of easy it is for the average J. Doe to download things from Apple’s App Store with confidence that it won’t contain malware or corrupt their system. Not a bad thing in itself, but the mistake (as I understand) it is forcing it as the ‘one true path’ at the expense of the general desktop experience. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 September 2013 9:29 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Mark II ** ** On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 .. ** ** You're dead right. Moreover I don't really know what problem the Windows 8 app store is solving. It has never been hard to obtain/install software for Windows. ** ** The app store on iPhone was revolutionary because it was a total PITA to get apps onto a phone prior to it and the quality of what was there (syncing apps onto Windows Mobile etc) was pretty bad. ** ** David. ** ** ** ** ** ** Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ==to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Mark II
I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it again; Windows Client != Microsoft. It is but 1 of 15 billion dollar businesses (up from 8 in 2010). From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II Eh? Microsoft brings in ~$20bn in revenue, and ~$6bn in profits every three months.[1] Surface Pro is a rounding error in the grand scheme of Microsoft’s overall portfolio of products. [1] http://www.google.com/finance?fstype=iiq=NASDAQ:MSFT From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.commailto:anthonyatsmall...@mail.com Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:41 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Mark II I wonder who is doing all the research for the Surface Pro Marketing… a giant that can’t find its home any more! I believe Microsoft needs to something quickly if it wants to stay a giant player ..except for business, devs etc no needs to buy MS software anymore..everything is going web and Microsoft appears to be very bad in this area..they can’t even get IE to conform to the HTML standard..when I develop web apps….IE is always where the problems occur. Initially MS ensured their IE had different HTML features so that we all developed to IE(as was normal) but now this has ‘back fired’ on them! Anthony
RE: Mark II
“they can’t even get IE to conform to the HTML standard..when I develop web apps….IE is always where the problems occur” On a related note, I’ve been focusing on getting up to date again with web UI and funnily enough IE seems to support standards better than Chrome without requiring vendor-specific prefixes. Plus the developer tools are surprisingly good. Haters gonna hate and all that, but it looks like they’re finally getting IE right. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.com Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:41 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Mark II I wonder who is doing all the research for the Surface Pro Marketing… a giant that can’t find its home any more! I believe Microsoft needs to something quickly if it wants to stay a giant player ..except for business, devs etc no needs to buy MS software anymore..everything is going web and Microsoft appears to be very bad in this area..they can’t even get IE to conform to the HTML standard..when I develop web apps….IE is always where the problems occur. Initially MS ensured their IE had different HTML features so that we all developed to IE(as was normal) but now this has ‘back fired’ on them! Anthony Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) --- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:23 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II … except that their phone/tablet strategy and all the failings that go with their metro/Windows Store/whatever-they-decide-to-call-it-tomorrow vision are leaking fail all over the desktop, and the “free 8.1 update” (ie Windows 8 SP1, except they can’t call a spade a spade after making such a big deal about no more service packs) has done near enough to nothing to alleviate it. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:16 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II The issue I have with that position is that the Surface Pro isn’t limited to the Windows Store, and since there are plenty of non-store apps (e.g. Office) that can be run on a Surface Pro, the proposition is more than just Windows Store. Surface RT, on the other hand… Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:40 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II The crux of what I’m talking about boils down to Windows Store, so both. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:37 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need exclusive apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? … which ultimately means apps aren’t enough. The platform is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an optional but default app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice
RE: Mark II
Nathan Chere: On a related note, I’ve been focusing on getting up to date again with web UI and funnily enough IE seems to support standards better than Chrome without requiring vendor-specific prefixes. Plus the developer tools are surprisingly good. Wot I sed _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 3:06 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II “they can’t even get IE to conform to the HTML standard..when I develop web apps….IE is always where the problems occur” On a related note, I’ve been focusing on getting up to date again with web UI and funnily enough IE seems to support standards better than Chrome without requiring vendor-specific prefixes. Plus the developer tools are surprisingly good. Haters gonna hate and all that, but it looks like they’re finally getting IE right.
Re: Mark II
I agree... IE is definitely improving rapidly, and I'm also a fan of its developer tools. Most importantly for me IE6 is no longer the lingua franca of corporate environments. These days with Windows 7 more or less standard, IE9 is often now the lowest common denominator, which provides decent HTML5 support. When it comes to the Surface2, I'm not sure the issue is the technology or user-interface as much as a critical mass being required. I actually think the UI stacks up well enough compared to the iPad / Android pads. But it's market share simply isn't big enough for it to be seen as cool. On 24 September 2013 16:08, Ian Thomas il.tho...@iinet.net.au wrote: Nathan Chere: On a related note, I’ve been focusing on getting up to date again with web UI and funnily enough IE seems to support standards better than Chrome without requiring vendor-specific prefixes. Plus the developer tools are surprisingly good. ** ** Wot I sed ** ** -- **Ian Thomas** Victoria Park, Western Australia ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Chere *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 3:06 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** “they can’t even get IE to conform to the HTML standard..when I develop web apps….IE is always where the problems occur” ** ** On a related note, I’ve been focusing on getting up to date again with web UI and funnily enough IE seems to support standards better than Chrome without requiring vendor-specific prefixes. Plus the developer tools are surprisingly good. ** ** Haters gonna hate and all that, but it looks like they’re finally getting IE right. ** **
Re: Mark II
To be fair nobody has a clue how much impact Windows Client has... its all rubbery numbers around what the actual breakdowns are. In that out of that 55% of Microsoft's total revenue for Enterprise isn't just Sharepoint and Windows Server share... moreover they are means to an end. There's also a reason why SteveB jumped up and down that year yelling Developers, Developers, Developers... that problem never went away. Microsoft gets around 6% of its business from consumer solutions (XBOX, Surface, Phone, EDD crap etc) so they are basically taking their bets and putting them down on the 6% to grow it further as they assert the enterprise (55%) and online services (20%) are in reasonable enough health to buy them some cover fire. In reality though its exposed the company's enterprise story a lot more given most people will start to explore the consumer space more but less with Microsoft in mind given they have broken a lot of faith / trust blah blah.. so its really an awkward time for them and given more and more solutions are popping up each year by Apple, Google, Sony, Oracle, Steam etc they are fighting a lot of front line fires at once. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:50 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote: I’ve said it once, and I’ll say it again; Windows Client != Microsoft. It is but 1 of 15 billion dollar businesses (up from 8 in 2010). ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer *Sent:* Monday, September 23, 2013 10:58 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** Eh? Microsoft brings in ~$20bn in revenue, and ~$6bn in profits *every three months*.[1] Surface Pro is a rounding error in the grand scheme of Microsoft’s overall portfolio of products. ** ** [1] http://www.google.com/finance?fstype=iiq=NASDAQ:MSFT ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *anthonyatsmall...@mail.com *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:41 PM *To:* 'ozDotNet' *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** I wonder who is doing all the research for the Surface Pro Marketing… a giant that can’t find its home any more! I believe Microsoft needs to something quickly if it wants to stay a giant player ..except for business, devs etc no needs to buy MS software anymore..everything is going web and Microsoft appears to be very bad in this area..they can’t even get IE to conform to the HTML standard..when I develop web apps….IE is always where the problems occur. ** ** Initially MS ensured their IE had different HTML features so that we all developed to IE(as was normal) but now this has ‘back fired’ on them! ** ** Anthony
RE: Mark II
Interesting discussion...its going to be an interesting future for these giants...i have always used MS developer tools and software but my experience with windows phone 7,8 has lead me to look at other platforms... From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 10:03 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Mark II To be fair nobody has a clue how much impact Windows Client has... its all rubbery numbers around what the actual breakdowns are. In that out of that 55% of Microsoft's total revenue for Enterprise isn't just Sharepoint and Windows Server share... moreover they are means to an end. There's also a reason why SteveB jumped up and down that year yelling Developers, Developers, Developers... that problem never went away. Microsoft gets around 6% of its business from consumer solutions (XBOX, Surface, Phone, EDD crap etc) so they are basically taking their bets and putting them down on the 6% to grow it further as they assert the enterprise (55%) and online services (20%) are in reasonable enough health to buy them some cover fire. In reality though its exposed the company's enterprise story a lot more given most people will start to explore the consumer space more but less with Microsoft in mind given they have broken a lot of faith / trust blah blah.. so its really an awkward time for them and given more and more solutions are popping up each year by Apple, Google, Sony, Oracle, Steam etc they are fighting a lot of front line fires at once. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:50 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: I've said it once, and I'll say it again; Windows Client != Microsoft. It is but 1 of 15 billion dollar businesses (up from 8 in 2010). From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 10:58 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II Eh? Microsoft brings in ~$20bn in revenue, and ~$6bn in profits every three months.[1] Surface Pro is a rounding error in the grand scheme of Microsoft's overall portfolio of products. [1] http://www.google.com/finance?fstype=ii http://www.google.com/finance?fstype=iiq=NASDAQ:MSFT q=NASDAQ:MSFT From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.com Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:41 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Mark II I wonder who is doing all the research for the Surface Pro Marketing. a giant that can't find its home any more! I believe Microsoft needs to something quickly if it wants to stay a giant player ..except for business, devs etc no needs to buy MS software anymore..everything is going web and Microsoft appears to be very bad in this area..they can't even get IE to conform to the HTML standard..when I develop web apps..IE is always where the problems occur. Initially MS ensured their IE had different HTML features so that we all developed to IE(as was normal) but now this has 'back fired' on them! Anthony
Re: Mark II
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 .. You're dead right. Moreover I don't really know what problem the Windows 8 app store is solving. It has never been hard to obtain/install software for Windows. The app store on iPhone was revolutionary because it was a total PITA to get apps onto a phone prior to it and the quality of what was there (syncing apps onto Windows Mobile etc) was pretty bad. David.
RE: Mark II
The ‘problem’ they’re trying to solve (as I understand it) is not keeping up with the Jones’ in terms of easy it is for the average J. Doe to download things from Apple’s App Store with confidence that it won’t contain malware or corrupt their system. Not a bad thing in itself, but the mistake (as I understand) it is forcing it as the ‘one true path’ at the expense of the general desktop experience. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Wednesday, 25 September 2013 9:29 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Mark II On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.commailto:scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 .. You're dead right. Moreover I don't really know what problem the Windows 8 app store is solving. It has never been hard to obtain/install software for Windows. The app store on iPhone was revolutionary because it was a total PITA to get apps onto a phone prior to it and the quality of what was there (syncing apps onto Windows Mobile etc) was pretty bad. David. Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
Re: Mark II
Honestly they are just parroting Apple AppStore. I don't mean that in a bad way in that people aren't stupid in in the company but one has to settle on a core cultural reality - everything in Microsoft is about compete, the company is obsessed with one-uping the competition but they fail more and more to realise WHY they are competing. You can easily get sucked into the idea of We have to beat Apple cheer leading and hardly if not barely anyone turns around and ask the question Why? Point in case - http://www.globalnerdy.com/2013/04/30/delusional-ceo-of-company-scrambling-for-distant-third-place-says-theyll-be-the-absolute-leader-in-five-years/- Microsoft staff held a funeral for iOS / Android on the day Windows Phone went gold master. It's one thing to be confident and believe in your product its another to be so arrogant and delusional? Rather than celebrate their product with a sense of pride or fist pumping they instead came at it with the whole Knife the Baby aggression - the very thing that made the DOJ turn around and simply say Ok, that's enough.. Windows Store doesn't solve a problem if they actually gave the problem an actual original thought then actual Store would look like something you'd buy from. They have XBOX Store as an example, Zune Marketplace as another example so it's not like they haven't actually had success here.. in the case of Windows 8 they simply just gave up. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.comwrote: The ‘problem’ they’re trying to solve (as I understand it) is not keeping up with the Jones’ in terms of easy it is for the average J. Doe to download things from Apple’s App Store with confidence that it won’t contain malware or corrupt their system. Not a bad thing in itself, but the mistake (as I understand) it is forcing it as the ‘one true path’ at the expense of the general desktop experience. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 September 2013 9:29 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Mark II ** ** On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 .. ** ** You're dead right. Moreover I don't really know what problem the Windows 8 app store is solving. It has never been hard to obtain/install software for Windows. ** ** The app store on iPhone was revolutionary because it was a total PITA to get apps onto a phone prior to it and the quality of what was there (syncing apps onto Windows Mobile etc) was pretty bad. ** ** David. ** ** ** ** ** ** Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
Re: Mark II
Vaguely on topic, I installed iOS7 on one of my wife's work phones and was like h look, it's all metro. looks like Microsoft was onto something seeing that Android have also adopted the flat look. It's like looking at those old brown brick houses that you know were built in the 70s. Change the style and it suddenly looks modern. I now find myself wanting a new iPhone (and this is after finally successfully not using any Apple products anymore...) So I may well end up using Apple phone, Google tablet and Microsoft laptop. I don't like missing out on things, and like to share myself around. hehe :) On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Honestly they are just parroting Apple AppStore. I don't mean that in a bad way in that people aren't stupid in in the company but one has to settle on a core cultural reality - everything in Microsoft is about compete, the company is obsessed with one-uping the competition but they fail more and more to realise WHY they are competing. You can easily get sucked into the idea of We have to beat Apple cheer leading and hardly if not barely anyone turns around and ask the question Why? Point in case - http://www.globalnerdy.com/2013/04/30/delusional-ceo-of-company-scrambling-for-distant-third-place-says-theyll-be-the-absolute-leader-in-five-years/- Microsoft staff held a funeral for iOS / Android on the day Windows Phone went gold master. It's one thing to be confident and believe in your product its another to be so arrogant and delusional? Rather than celebrate their product with a sense of pride or fist pumping they instead came at it with the whole Knife the Baby aggression - the very thing that made the DOJ turn around and simply say Ok, that's enough.. Windows Store doesn't solve a problem if they actually gave the problem an actual original thought then actual Store would look like something you'd buy from. They have XBOX Store as an example, Zune Marketplace as another example so it's not like they haven't actually had success here.. in the case of Windows 8 they simply just gave up. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com wrote: The ‘problem’ they’re trying to solve (as I understand it) is not keeping up with the Jones’ in terms of easy it is for the average J. Doe to download things from Apple’s App Store with confidence that it won’t contain malware or corrupt their system. Not a bad thing in itself, but the mistake (as I understand) it is forcing it as the ‘one true path’ at the expense of the general desktop experience. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 September 2013 9:29 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Mark II ** ** On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 .. ** ** You're dead right. Moreover I don't really know what problem the Windows 8 app store is solving. It has never been hard to obtain/install software for Windows. ** ** The app store on iPhone was revolutionary because it was a total PITA to get apps onto a phone prior to it and the quality of what was there (syncing apps onto Windows Mobile etc) was pretty bad. ** ** David. ** ** ** ** ** ** Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
Re: Mark II
I dunno, I think the whole Microsoft = Metro is giving the company way to much credit where the Web 2.0 design crowd owned.. I mean sure Microsoft figured out grid based design + phone could be a cheaper option to get developers to produce aesthetically nice code was a good idea but to lump them with Flat design despite decade or more of designers doing the same design both in print media and on the web is a bit of an irritation for a designer like me. Its like me making a language tomorrow and baking in LINQ style syntax then getting the credit for it's concept. Which btw is ironic given funnily enough Coldfusion had Query of Query before C# had it (syntax different but concept is same). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote: Vaguely on topic, I installed iOS7 on one of my wife's work phones and was like h look, it's all metro. looks like Microsoft was onto something seeing that Android have also adopted the flat look. It's like looking at those old brown brick houses that you know were built in the 70s. Change the style and it suddenly looks modern. I now find myself wanting a new iPhone (and this is after finally successfully not using any Apple products anymore...) So I may well end up using Apple phone, Google tablet and Microsoft laptop. I don't like missing out on things, and like to share myself around. hehe :) On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Honestly they are just parroting Apple AppStore. I don't mean that in a bad way in that people aren't stupid in in the company but one has to settle on a core cultural reality - everything in Microsoft is about compete, the company is obsessed with one-uping the competition but they fail more and more to realise WHY they are competing. You can easily get sucked into the idea of We have to beat Apple cheer leading and hardly if not barely anyone turns around and ask the question Why? Point in case - http://www.globalnerdy.com/2013/04/30/delusional-ceo-of-company-scrambling-for-distant-third-place-says-theyll-be-the-absolute-leader-in-five-years/- Microsoft staff held a funeral for iOS / Android on the day Windows Phone went gold master. It's one thing to be confident and believe in your product its another to be so arrogant and delusional? Rather than celebrate their product with a sense of pride or fist pumping they instead came at it with the whole Knife the Baby aggression - the very thing that made the DOJ turn around and simply say Ok, that's enough.. Windows Store doesn't solve a problem if they actually gave the problem an actual original thought then actual Store would look like something you'd buy from. They have XBOX Store as an example, Zune Marketplace as another example so it's not like they haven't actually had success here.. in the case of Windows 8 they simply just gave up. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com wrote: The ‘problem’ they’re trying to solve (as I understand it) is not keeping up with the Jones’ in terms of easy it is for the average J. Doe to download things from Apple’s App Store with confidence that it won’t contain malware or corrupt their system. Not a bad thing in itself, but the mistake (as I understand) it is forcing it as the ‘one true path’ at the expense of the general desktop experience. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 September 2013 9:29 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Mark II ** ** On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 .. ** ** You're dead right. Moreover I don't really know what problem the Windows 8 app store is solving. It has never been hard to obtain/install software for Windows. ** ** The app store on iPhone was revolutionary because it was a total PITA to get apps onto a phone prior to it and the quality of what was there (syncing apps onto Windows Mobile etc) was pretty bad. ** ** David. ** ** ** ** ** ** Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
Re: Mark II
You're right, people rarely remember who invented something, its more often who made the biggest deal of it and got noticed first. The whole look at me thing. I'm sure the people on the Internet will set them straight. Who invented it is beside the point, the trend is now flat. All part of the Web 2.0 As Google has demonstrated, implementation can beat innovation. Take a good idea and implement it better. Will see how long I can NOT buy an iPhone for.. :) On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: I dunno, I think the whole Microsoft = Metro is giving the company way to much credit where the Web 2.0 design crowd owned.. I mean sure Microsoft figured out grid based design + phone could be a cheaper option to get developers to produce aesthetically nice code was a good idea but to lump them with Flat design despite decade or more of designers doing the same design both in print media and on the web is a bit of an irritation for a designer like me. Its like me making a language tomorrow and baking in LINQ style syntax then getting the credit for it's concept. Which btw is ironic given funnily enough Coldfusion had Query of Query before C# had it (syntax different but concept is same). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote: Vaguely on topic, I installed iOS7 on one of my wife's work phones and was like h look, it's all metro. looks like Microsoft was onto something seeing that Android have also adopted the flat look. It's like looking at those old brown brick houses that you know were built in the 70s. Change the style and it suddenly looks modern. I now find myself wanting a new iPhone (and this is after finally successfully not using any Apple products anymore...) So I may well end up using Apple phone, Google tablet and Microsoft laptop. I don't like missing out on things, and like to share myself around. hehe :) On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Honestly they are just parroting Apple AppStore. I don't mean that in a bad way in that people aren't stupid in in the company but one has to settle on a core cultural reality - everything in Microsoft is about compete, the company is obsessed with one-uping the competition but they fail more and more to realise WHY they are competing. You can easily get sucked into the idea of We have to beat Apple cheer leading and hardly if not barely anyone turns around and ask the question Why? Point in case - http://www.globalnerdy.com/2013/04/30/delusional-ceo-of-company-scrambling-for-distant-third-place-says-theyll-be-the-absolute-leader-in-five-years/- Microsoft staff held a funeral for iOS / Android on the day Windows Phone went gold master. It's one thing to be confident and believe in your product its another to be so arrogant and delusional? Rather than celebrate their product with a sense of pride or fist pumping they instead came at it with the whole Knife the Baby aggression - the very thing that made the DOJ turn around and simply say Ok, that's enough.. Windows Store doesn't solve a problem if they actually gave the problem an actual original thought then actual Store would look like something you'd buy from. They have XBOX Store as an example, Zune Marketplace as another example so it's not like they haven't actually had success here.. in the case of Windows 8 they simply just gave up. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com wrote: The ‘problem’ they’re trying to solve (as I understand it) is not keeping up with the Jones’ in terms of easy it is for the average J. Doe to download things from Apple’s App Store with confidence that it won’t contain malware or corrupt their system. Not a bad thing in itself, but the mistake (as I understand) it is forcing it as the ‘one true path’ at the expense of the general desktop experience. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 September 2013 9:29 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Mark II ** ** On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 .. ** ** You're dead right. Moreover I don't really know what problem the Windows 8 app store is solving. It has never been hard to obtain/install software for Windows. ** ** The app store on iPhone was revolutionary because it was a total PITA to get apps onto a phone prior to it and the quality of what was there (syncing apps onto Windows Mobile etc) was pretty bad. ** ** David. ** ** ** ** ** ** Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ
Re: Mark II
I think technically nothing really exciting as much as that sounds weird.. Yes you have a multi-touch laptop now with the Microsoft logo officially stamped on but HP, DELL etc aren't idiots and will fight them head to head on retaining relevance. Not only that they have to find a way to convince people that Tablet and Laptop is what we need and want - which isn't an easy habit to break into. My longer thoughts here http://www.riagenic.com/archives/1882 - Surface 2 – The shotgun approach to marketing I don't think the product will succeed this time round, especially given Microsoft internally is in this exec power stall / marketing coma. Which is being amplified more so given SteveB is stepping down so like any organisation all bets are off until the new person shows up (ie Ambition wont be as rewarded as it could normally have been so curious to see how you navigate a massive internal culture shock while trying to disrupt the Tablet Laptop marketing categories in retail / consumer minds - people dancing around clicking keyboards isn't the ad that will do that :D) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 11:28 AM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: But will it be any better? http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-surface-2-announcement/29147/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribersutm_campaign=f7e5da2030-UA-2235360-4utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_65b67362bd-f7e5da2030-90318010 SSDD -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Mark II
That’s the usual cynical review, but it did add a few things I didn’t know about the docking station, the ability to run 2 screens, extra USB ports (on the Pro2, one of them is USB 1.0 – really?), and the Power Cover is also usable on the Surface Mark I. The review leaves out extra RAM, card slot, cameras, size of the SSD, and some other minor details, in favour of emphasising that the Windows Store lags far behind the Apple and Google counterparts, with only 100K apps. Do a need a choice of a million or more? I reckon if I could get 50 good applications I would be quite happy. Also, iirc one was to be 5-point touch, the other 10-point; one has USB 2.0 the other USB 3.0 – I guess I need to search for some more complete information. Isn’t there a mini DisplayPort or HDMI? _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:29 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Mark II But will it be any better? http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-surface-2-announcement/29147/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-surface-2-announcement/29147/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribersutm_campaign=f7e5da2030-UA-2235360-4utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_65b67362bd-f7e5da2030-90318010 utm_campaign=f7e5da2030-UA-2235360-4utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_65b67362bd-f7e5da2030-90318010 SSDD -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Mark II
There’s no USB1.0 port ☺ Specs are here: http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/23/microsoft-new-surface-pro-2-gets-official/ http://gdgt.com/microsoft/surface/pro/2/ (click the “versions” link to see links to all 4 models) Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 1:23 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Mark II That’s the usual cynical review, but it did add a few things I didn’t know about the docking station, the ability to run 2 screens, extra USB ports (on the Pro2, one of them is USB 1.0 – really?), and the Power Cover is also usable on the Surface Mark I. The review leaves out extra RAM, card slot, cameras, size of the SSD, and some other minor details, in favour of emphasising that the Windows Store lags far behind the Apple and Google counterparts, with only 100K apps. Do a need a choice of a million or more? I reckon if I could get 50 good applications I would be quite happy. Also, iirc one was to be 5-point touch, the other 10-point; one has USB 2.0 the other USB 3.0 – I guess I need to search for some more complete information. Isn’t there a mini DisplayPort or HDMI? Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:29 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Mark II But will it be any better? http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-surface-2-announcement/29147/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribersutm_campaign=f7e5da2030-UA-2235360-4utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_65b67362bd-f7e5da2030-90318010 SSDD -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Mark II
I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need exclusive apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? … which ultimately means apps aren’t enough. The platform is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an optional but default app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I’d much rather target a platform with 60%-95% piracy rate (depending on who you believe) and a paying customer base of 100s of millions than a platform with 5-20% piracy rate (also depending on who you believe) but a single completely broken store with no quality control (even rewarding people for shit apps – “quantity over quality”) and a distinct minority customer base of whom the paying customers are an even more fragile minority. But why learn from the mistakes and failings of Windows Phone? Why not sink the tablet market as well, and do all we can to take down the desktop in general while we’re at it? /rant which started off as a one-liner but I get carried away so apologies for any beating of any dead horses and drawing of long bows From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 1:23 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Mark II That’s the usual cynical review, but it did add a few things I didn’t know about the docking station, the ability to run 2 screens, extra USB ports (on the Pro2, one of them is USB 1.0 – really?), and the Power Cover is also usable on the Surface Mark I. The review leaves out extra RAM, card slot, cameras, size of the SSD, and some other minor details, in favour of emphasising that the Windows Store lags far behind the Apple and Google counterparts, with only 100K apps. Do a need a choice of a million or more? I reckon if I could get 50 good applications I would be quite happy. Also, iirc one was to be 5-point touch, the other 10-point; one has USB 2.0 the other USB 3.0 – I guess I need to search for some more complete information. Isn’t there a mini DisplayPort or HDMI? Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:29 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Mark II But will it be any better? http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-surface-2-announcement/29147/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribersutm_campaign=f7e5da2030-UA-2235360-4utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_65b67362bd-f7e5da2030-90318010 SSDD -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
RE: Mark II
Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need exclusive apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? … which ultimately means apps aren’t enough. The platform is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an optional but default app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I’d much rather target a platform with 60%-95% piracy rate (depending on who you believe) and a paying customer base of 100s of millions than a platform with 5-20% piracy rate (also depending on who you believe) but a single completely broken store with no quality control (even rewarding people for shit apps – “quantity over quality”) and a distinct minority customer base of whom the paying customers are an even more fragile minority. But why learn from the mistakes and failings of Windows Phone? Why not sink the tablet market as well, and do all we can to take down the desktop in general while we’re at it? /rant which started off as a one-liner but I get carried away so apologies for any beating of any dead horses and drawing of long bows From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 1:23 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Mark II That’s the usual cynical review, but it did add a few things I didn’t know about the docking station, the ability to run 2 screens, extra USB ports (on the Pro2, one of them is USB 1.0 – really?), and the Power Cover is also usable on the Surface Mark I. The review leaves out extra RAM, card slot, cameras, size of the SSD, and some other minor details, in favour of emphasising that the Windows Store lags far behind the Apple and Google counterparts, with only 100K apps. Do a need a choice of a million or more? I reckon if I could get 50 good applications I would be quite happy. Also, iirc one was to be 5-point touch, the other 10-point; one has USB 2.0 the other USB 3.0 – I guess I need to search for some more complete information. Isn’t there a mini DisplayPort or HDMI? Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:29 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Mark II But will it be any better? http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-surface-2-announcement/29147/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribersutm_campaign=f7e5da2030-UA-2235360-4utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_65b67362bd-f7e5da2030-90318010 SSDD -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.comhttp://www.websense.com/
RE: Mark II
The crux of what I’m talking about boils down to Windows Store, so both. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:37 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need exclusive apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? … which ultimately means apps aren’t enough. The platform is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an optional but default app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I’d much rather target a platform with 60%-95% piracy rate (depending on who you believe) and a paying customer base of 100s of millions than a platform with 5-20% piracy rate (also depending on who you believe) but a single completely broken store with no quality control (even rewarding people for shit apps – “quantity over quality”) and a distinct minority customer base of whom the paying customers are an even more fragile minority. But why learn from the mistakes and failings of Windows Phone? Why not sink the tablet market as well, and do all we can to take down the desktop in general while we’re at it? /rant which started off as a one-liner but I get carried away so apologies for any beating of any dead horses and drawing of long bows From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 1:23 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Mark II That’s the usual cynical review, but it did add a few things I didn’t know about the docking station, the ability to run 2 screens, extra USB ports (on the Pro2, one of them is USB 1.0 – really?), and the Power Cover is also usable on the Surface Mark I. The review leaves out extra RAM, card slot, cameras, size of the SSD, and some other minor details, in favour of emphasising that the Windows Store lags far behind the Apple and Google counterparts, with only 100K apps. Do a need a choice of a million or more? I reckon if I could get 50 good applications I would be quite happy. Also, iirc one was to be 5-point touch, the other 10-point; one has USB 2.0 the other USB 3.0 – I guess I need to search for some more complete information. Isn’t there a mini DisplayPort or HDMI? Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:29 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Mark II But will it be any better? http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-surface-2-announcement/29147/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribersutm_campaign=f7e5da2030-UA-2235360-4utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_65b67362bd-f7e5da2030-90318010 SSDD -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.comhttp://www.websense.com/
Re: Mark II
Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 ..moreover how man times a week and would you recommend an App to people outside your industry that exists on Windows 8 should they ask Why should I get Windows 8.1 If you are struggling to come up with an answer or have to spend a few moments to think about how that question could be answered - imagine the average consumer who has absolutely no care-factor in Microsoft community ongoings... Until that gets disrupted enough to the point where it becomes an adoption similar to Google (Ie remember the day you switched over to Google?) there is no incentive its just behaviour of use. To measure UX you apply cognitive dissonance as the test - Incentive vs Behaviour ... If the user trajectory of incentive of use matches their actual usage (behaviour) you have a bliss point product .. if the incentive decays in a short time (say 30 days after purchase) you have a fail. The incentive will decay (it always does) but its a question of how long you can defer that decay that succeeds. Surface Pro has to figure out what the Behaviour of the users actually are and then it can start to plot the incentive of use thus measuring why the hell people aren't happy with the products strategy. Instead they went Quick throw more hardware at the problem it will solve itself once developers get excited to build ... then straight after that they then serve developers no incentive to adopt the new by constantly telling them their current adoption is wrong (vicious replenishment cycle that benefits Microsoft and less the developer). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.comwrote: The crux of what I’m talking about boils down to Windows Store, so both.* *** ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:37 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. ** ** Cheers Ken ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Chere *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. ** ** Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need *exclusive *apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? ** ** … which ultimately means *apps aren’t enough*. The *platform* is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. ** ** Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an *optional but default* app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I’d much rather target a platform with 60%-95% piracy rate (depending on who you believe) and a paying customer base of 100s of millions than a platform with 5-20% piracy rate (also depending on who you believe) but a single completely broken store with no quality control (even rewarding people for shit apps – “quantity over quality”) and a distinct minority customer base of whom the paying customers are an even more fragile minority. ** ** But why learn from the mistakes and failings of Windows Phone? Why not sink the tablet market as well, and do all we can to take down the desktop in general while we’re at it? ** ** /rant which started off as a one-liner but I get carried away so apologies for any beating of any dead horses and drawing of long bows ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
Re: Mark II
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. ** With this version, 3 different products. Will there be fragmentation between the original and version 2? If there isn't, what's the point of it? People didn't want v1, if there's little or no difference, will they want v2? ** Cheers Ken ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Chere *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. ** ** Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need *exclusive *apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? ** ** … which ultimately means *apps aren’t enough*. The *platform* is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. ** ** Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an *optional but default* app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I’d much rather target a platform with 60%-95% piracy rate (depending on who you believe) and a paying customer base of 100s of millions than a platform with 5-20% piracy rate (also depending on who you believe) but a single completely broken store with no quality control (even rewarding people for shit apps – “quantity over quality”) and a distinct minority customer base of whom the paying customers are an even more fragile minority. ** ** But why learn from the mistakes and failings of Windows Phone? Why not sink the tablet market as well, and do all we can to take down the desktop in general while we’re at it? ** ** /rant which started off as a one-liner but I get carried away so apologies for any beating of any dead horses and drawing of long bows ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ian Thomas *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 1:23 PM *To:* 'ozDotNet' *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** That’s the usual cynical review, but it did add a few things I didn’t know about the docking station, the ability to run 2 screens, extra USB ports (on the Pro2, one of them is USB 1.0 – really?), and the Power Cover is also usable on the Surface Mark I. ** ** The review leaves out extra RAM, card slot, cameras, size of the SSD, and some other minor details, in favour of emphasising that the Windows Store lags far behind the Apple and Google counterparts, with only 100K apps. Do a need a choice of a million or more? I reckon if I could get 50 good applications I would be quite happy. ** ** Also, iirc one was to be 5-point touch, the other 10-point; one has USB 2.0 the other USB 3.0 – I guess I need to search for some more complete information. Isn’t there a mini DisplayPort or HDMI? ** ** -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:29 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Mark II ** ** But will it be any better? ** ** http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-surface-2-announcement/29147/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribersutm_campaign=f7e5da2030-UA-2235360-4utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_65b67362bd-f7e5da2030-90318010 ** ** SSDD ** ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills ** ** Click here https://www.mailcontrol.com
Re: Mark II
3 products... all with the same name.. nope nothing wrong with the marketing here :D --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:47 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.comwrote: Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. ** With this version, 3 different products. Will there be fragmentation between the original and version 2? If there isn't, what's the point of it? People didn't want v1, if there's little or no difference, will they want v2? ** Cheers Ken ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Chere *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. ** ** Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need *exclusive *apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? ** ** … which ultimately means *apps aren’t enough*. The *platform* is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. ** ** Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an *optional but default* app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I’d much rather target a platform with 60%-95% piracy rate (depending on who you believe) and a paying customer base of 100s of millions than a platform with 5-20% piracy rate (also depending on who you believe) but a single completely broken store with no quality control (even rewarding people for shit apps – “quantity over quality”) and a distinct minority customer base of whom the paying customers are an even more fragile minority. ** ** But why learn from the mistakes and failings of Windows Phone? Why not sink the tablet market as well, and do all we can to take down the desktop in general while we’re at it? ** ** /rant which started off as a one-liner but I get carried away so apologies for any beating of any dead horses and drawing of long bows*** * ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ian Thomas *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 1:23 PM *To:* 'ozDotNet' *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** That’s the usual cynical review, but it did add a few things I didn’t know about the docking station, the ability to run 2 screens, extra USB ports (on the Pro2, one of them is USB 1.0 – really?), and the Power Cover is also usable on the Surface Mark I. ** ** The review leaves out extra RAM, card slot, cameras, size of the SSD, and some other minor details, in favour of emphasising that the Windows Store lags far behind the Apple and Google counterparts, with only 100K apps. Do a need a choice of a million or more? I reckon if I could get 50 good applications I would be quite happy. ** ** Also, iirc one was to be 5-point touch, the other 10-point; one has USB 2.0 the other USB 3.0 – I guess I need to search for some more complete information. Isn’t there a mini DisplayPort or HDMI? ** ** -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:29 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Mark II ** ** But will it be any better? ** ** http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-surface-2-announcement/29147/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribersutm_campaign=f7e5da2030-UA-2235360-4utm_medium=emailutm_term=0_65b67362bd-f7e5da2030-90318010 ** ** SSDD ** ** -- Meski
RE: Mark II
At least they didn't call it The New Surface (see: iPad 3). From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:49 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Mark II 3 products... all with the same name.. nope nothing wrong with the marketing here :D --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:47 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.commailto:meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.commailto:k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They're two different products. With this version, 3 different products. Will there be fragmentation between the original and version 2? If there isn't, what's the point of it? People didn't want v1, if there's little or no difference, will they want v2? Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. Even then, it's not enough to have good apps. They need exclusive apps... and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? ... which ultimately means apps aren't enough. The platform is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They've limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a 'tablet' but don't want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an optional but default app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA - which they've also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they've limited piracy, there's virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I'd much rather target a platform with 60%-95% piracy rate (depending on who you believe) and a paying customer base of 100s of millions than a platform with 5-20% piracy rate (also depending on who you believe) but a single completely broken store with no quality control (even rewarding people for shit apps - quantity over quality) and a distinct minority customer base of whom the paying customers are an even more fragile minority. But why learn from the mistakes and failings of Windows Phone? Why not sink the tablet market as well, and do all we can to take down the desktop in general while we're at it? /rant which started off as a one-liner but I get carried away so apologies for any beating of any dead horses and drawing of long bows From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ian Thomas Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 1:23 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Mark II That's the usual cynical review, but it did add a few things I didn't know about the docking station, the ability to run 2 screens, extra USB ports (on the Pro2, one of them is USB 1.0 - really?), and the Power Cover is also usable on the Surface Mark I. The review leaves out extra RAM, card slot, cameras, size of the SSD, and some other minor details, in favour of emphasising that the Windows Store lags far behind the Apple and Google counterparts, with only 100K apps. Do a need a choice of a million or more? I reckon if I could get 50 good applications I would be quite happy. Also, iirc one was to be 5-point touch, the other 10-point; one has USB 2.0 the other USB 3.0 - I guess I need to search for some more complete information. Isn't there a mini DisplayPort or HDMI? Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:29 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Mark II But will it be any better? http://www.gizmag.com/microsoft-surface-2-announcement/29147/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribersutm_campaign=f7e5da2030-UA-2235360-4utm_medium
Re: Mark II
yes but apple have your attention so they can afford to tinker with the branding because its no longer a question of what is an iPad vs Macbook pro etc.. its really a case of whats new on something i already know Surface is Ok...so wtf is that.. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.comwrote: At least they didn’t call it “The New Surface” (see: iPad 3). ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:49 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Mark II ** ** 3 products... all with the same name.. nope nothing wrong with the marketing here :D --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com ** ** On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:47 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:*** * On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. ** ** With this version, 3 different products. Will there be fragmentation between the original and version 2? If there isn't, what's the point of it? People didn't want v1, if there's little or no difference, will they want v2? ** ** Cheers Ken *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Chere *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need *exclusive *apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? … which ultimately means *apps aren’t enough*. The *platform* is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an *optional but default* app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I’d much rather target a platform with 60%-95% piracy rate (depending on who you believe) and a paying customer base of 100s of millions than a platform with 5-20% piracy rate (also depending on who you believe) but a single completely broken store with no quality control (even rewarding people for shit apps – “quantity over quality”) and a distinct minority customer base of whom the paying customers are an even more fragile minority. But why learn from the mistakes and failings of Windows Phone? Why not sink the tablet market as well, and do all we can to take down the desktop in general while we’re at it? /rant which started off as a one-liner but I get carried away so apologies for any beating of any dead horses and drawing of long bows *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ian Thomas *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 1:23 PM *To:* 'ozDotNet' *Subject:* RE: Mark II That’s the usual cynical review, but it did add a few things I didn’t know about the docking station, the ability to run 2 screens, extra USB ports (on the Pro2, one of them is USB 1.0 – really?), and the Power Cover is also usable on the Surface Mark I. The review leaves out extra RAM, card slot, cameras, size of the SSD, and some other minor details, in favour of emphasising that the Windows Store lags far behind the Apple and Google counterparts, with only 100K apps. Do a need a choice of a million or more? I reckon if I could get 50 good applications I would be quite happy. Also, iirc one was to be 5-point touch, the other 10-point; one has USB 2.0
Re: Mark II
I don't believe that anyone buys a Surface Pro for the app store alone. In fact, the biggest issue with the Surface Pro in particular is the abundance of apps that are available that are not in the app store. It's also why I don't think you can compare the iPad to the Surface Pro - they actually have different purposes altogether. Of course, the same logic makes the standard Surface RT dead in the water, although they do have a small benefit in running Office and offering a browser, but that's about all. Personally, I don't think they are worth the money. I personally think people will tire of the Surfaces and go back to thin form factor laptops again, mainly because the keyboards are so much better, but also because of their robustness and they are also pretty lightweight when travelling. On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 ..moreover how man times a week and would you recommend an App to people outside your industry that exists on Windows 8 should they ask Why should I get Windows 8.1 If you are struggling to come up with an answer or have to spend a few moments to think about how that question could be answered - imagine the average consumer who has absolutely no care-factor in Microsoft community ongoings... Until that gets disrupted enough to the point where it becomes an adoption similar to Google (Ie remember the day you switched over to Google?) there is no incentive its just behaviour of use. To measure UX you apply cognitive dissonance as the test - Incentive vs Behaviour ... If the user trajectory of incentive of use matches their actual usage (behaviour) you have a bliss point product .. if the incentive decays in a short time (say 30 days after purchase) you have a fail. The incentive will decay (it always does) but its a question of how long you can defer that decay that succeeds. Surface Pro has to figure out what the Behaviour of the users actually are and then it can start to plot the incentive of use thus measuring why the hell people aren't happy with the products strategy. Instead they went Quick throw more hardware at the problem it will solve itself once developers get excited to build ... then straight after that they then serve developers no incentive to adopt the new by constantly telling them their current adoption is wrong (vicious replenishment cycle that benefits Microsoft and less the developer). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.comwrote: The crux of what I’m talking about boils down to Windows Store, so both. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:37 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. ** ** Cheers Ken ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Chere *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. ** ** Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need *exclusive *apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? ** ** … which ultimately means *apps aren’t enough*. The *platform* is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. ** ** Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an *optional but default* app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop
Re: Mark II
People compare Surface to iPads because thats the conditioned response ... go to any website that sells the Surface Pro /RT and look at what category its placed under... I call this breaking into jail (very easy to get in, hard to get out). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: I don't believe that anyone buys a Surface Pro for the app store alone. In fact, the biggest issue with the Surface Pro in particular is the abundance of apps that are available that are not in the app store. It's also why I don't think you can compare the iPad to the Surface Pro - they actually have different purposes altogether. Of course, the same logic makes the standard Surface RT dead in the water, although they do have a small benefit in running Office and offering a browser, but that's about all. Personally, I don't think they are worth the money. I personally think people will tire of the Surfaces and go back to thin form factor laptops again, mainly because the keyboards are so much better, but also because of their robustness and they are also pretty lightweight when travelling. On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: Good straw-man test to undertake - how many times a day you check the AppStore in Windows 8.1 ..moreover how man times a week and would you recommend an App to people outside your industry that exists on Windows 8 should they ask Why should I get Windows 8.1 If you are struggling to come up with an answer or have to spend a few moments to think about how that question could be answered - imagine the average consumer who has absolutely no care-factor in Microsoft community ongoings... Until that gets disrupted enough to the point where it becomes an adoption similar to Google (Ie remember the day you switched over to Google?) there is no incentive its just behaviour of use. To measure UX you apply cognitive dissonance as the test - Incentive vs Behaviour ... If the user trajectory of incentive of use matches their actual usage (behaviour) you have a bliss point product .. if the incentive decays in a short time (say 30 days after purchase) you have a fail. The incentive will decay (it always does) but its a question of how long you can defer that decay that succeeds. Surface Pro has to figure out what the Behaviour of the users actually are and then it can start to plot the incentive of use thus measuring why the hell people aren't happy with the products strategy. Instead they went Quick throw more hardware at the problem it will solve itself once developers get excited to build ... then straight after that they then serve developers no incentive to adopt the new by constantly telling them their current adoption is wrong (vicious replenishment cycle that benefits Microsoft and less the developer). --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Nathan Chere nathan.ch...@saiglobal.com wrote: The crux of what I’m talking about boils down to Windows Store, so both. ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:37 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. ** ** Cheers Ken ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Chere *Sent:* Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: Mark II ** ** I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. ** ** Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need *exclusive *apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? ** ** … which ultimately means *apps aren’t enough*. The *platform* is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. ** ** Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an *optional but default* app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA
RE: Mark II
The issue I have with that position is that the Surface Pro isn’t limited to the Windows Store, and since there are plenty of non-store apps (e.g. Office) that can be run on a Surface Pro, the proposition is more than just Windows Store. Surface RT, on the other hand… Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:40 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II The crux of what I’m talking about boils down to Windows Store, so both. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:37 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need exclusive apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? … which ultimately means apps aren’t enough. The platform is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an optional but default app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I’d much rather target a platform with 60%-95% piracy rate (depending on who you believe) and a paying customer base of 100s of millions than a platform with 5-20% piracy rate (also depending on who you believe) but a single completely broken store with no quality control (even rewarding people for shit apps – “quantity over quality”) and a distinct minority customer base of whom the paying customers are an even more fragile minority. But why learn from the mistakes and failings of Windows Phone? Why not sink the tablet market as well, and do all we can to take down the desktop in general while we’re at it? /rant which started off as a one-liner but I get carried away so apologies for any beating of any dead horses and drawing of long bows
RE: Mark II
… except that their phone/tablet strategy and all the failings that go with their metro/Windows Store/whatever-they-decide-to-call-it-tomorrow vision are leaking fail all over the desktop, and the “free 8.1 update” (ie Windows 8 SP1, except they can’t call a spade a spade after making such a big deal about no more service packs) has done near enough to nothing to alleviate it. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:16 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II The issue I have with that position is that the Surface Pro isn’t limited to the Windows Store, and since there are plenty of non-store apps (e.g. Office) that can be run on a Surface Pro, the proposition is more than just Windows Store. Surface RT, on the other hand… Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:40 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II The crux of what I’m talking about boils down to Windows Store, so both. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:37 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need exclusive apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? … which ultimately means apps aren’t enough. The platform is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an optional but default app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I’d much rather target a platform with 60%-95% piracy rate (depending on who you believe) and a paying customer base of 100s of millions than a platform with 5-20% piracy rate (also depending on who you believe) but a single completely broken store with no quality control (even rewarding people for shit apps – “quantity over quality”) and a distinct minority customer base of whom the paying customers are an even more fragile minority. But why learn from the mistakes and failings of Windows Phone? Why not sink the tablet market as well, and do all we can to take down the desktop in general while we’re at it? /rant which started off as a one-liner but I get carried away so apologies for any beating of any dead horses and drawing of long bows Click herehttps://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/MZbqvYs5QwJvpeaetUwhCQ== to report this email as spam. This message has been scanned for malware by Websense. www.websense.com
RE: Mark II
I wonder who is doing all the research for the Surface Pro Marketing… a giant that can’t find its home any more! I believe Microsoft needs to something quickly if it wants to stay a giant player ..except for business, devs etc no needs to buy MS software anymore..everything is going web and Microsoft appears to be very bad in this area..they can’t even get IE to conform to the HTML standard..when I develop web apps….IE is always where the problems occur. Initially MS ensured their IE had different HTML features so that we all developed to IE(as was normal) but now this has ‘back fired’ on them! Anthony Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) --- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:23 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II … except that their phone/tablet strategy and all the failings that go with their metro/Windows Store/whatever-they-decide-to-call-it-tomorrow vision are leaking fail all over the desktop, and the “free 8.1 update” (ie Windows 8 SP1, except they can’t call a spade a spade after making such a big deal about no more service packs) has done near enough to nothing to alleviate it. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:16 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II The issue I have with that position is that the Surface Pro isn’t limited to the Windows Store, and since there are plenty of non-store apps (e.g. Office) that can be run on a Surface Pro, the proposition is more than just Windows Store. Surface RT, on the other hand… Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:40 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II The crux of what I’m talking about boils down to Windows Store, so both. From: mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:37 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. Cheers Ken From: mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need exclusive apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? … which ultimately means apps aren’t enough. The platform is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an optional but default app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows Phone 7 (and 7.5, 8 etc) I imagine they would have built on the slice of the enterprise market they had with prior Windows Mobile instead of almost completely alienating the enterprise, continued to appeal to the hobbyist and amateur developer market (increasingly so with XNA – which they’ve also canned, another brainfart) and provided a convenient medium for accessing content for the average consumer. The pre-requisite of Zune to do anything useful reeks of all the fail of iTunes. Even though they’ve limited piracy, there’s virtually nothing in the store worth pirating anyway. Because no-one wants to use it, which means no-one wants to develop for it. I’d much rather target
RE: Mark II
Anthony, I may be misinformed but I thought the problem with IE9,10,11 as a browser was more that it/they do conform with HTML standards – and most websites do not. Maybe Chrome is more conformant, but (my reading: please disillusion me if it is wrong) IE is probably better than all the other browsers available on all platforms. That’s a side issue, of course. Microsoft marketing is a mystery to me, so I won’t comment. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 1:41 PM To: 'ozDotNet' Subject: RE: Mark II I wonder who is doing all the research for the Surface Pro Marketing… a giant that can’t find its home any more! I believe Microsoft needs to something quickly if it wants to stay a giant player ..except for business, devs etc no needs to buy MS software anymore..everything is going web and Microsoft appears to be very bad in this area..they can’t even get IE to conform to the HTML standard..when I develop web apps….IE is always where the problems occur. Initially MS ensured their IE had different HTML features so that we all developed to IE(as was normal) but now this has ‘back fired’ on them! Anthony Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) --- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:23 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II … except that their phone/tablet strategy and all the failings that go with their metro/Windows Store/whatever-they-decide-to-call-it-tomorrow vision are leaking fail all over the desktop, and the “free 8.1 update” (ie Windows 8 SP1, except they can’t call a spade a spade after making such a big deal about no more service packs) has done near enough to nothing to alleviate it. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 3:16 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II The issue I have with that position is that the Surface Pro isn’t limited to the Windows Store, and since there are plenty of non-store apps (e.g. Office) that can be run on a Surface Pro, the proposition is more than just Windows Store. Surface RT, on the other hand… Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:40 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II The crux of what I’m talking about boils down to Windows Store, so both. From: mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:37 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II Are you talking about the Surface RT? Or the Surface Pro? They’re two different products. Cheers Ken From: mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Chere Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2013 2:34 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Mark II I reckon Microsoft would be happy if they could get 50 good applications too. Even then, it’s not enough to have “good” apps. They need exclusive apps… and really, if you have an idea even remotely worth doing something with, why in your right mind would you choose Windows Store of all places to make it exclusive to? … which ultimately means apps aren’t enough. The platform is a failure. With the Surface they chose to consolidate Windows (desktop) and Windows Mobile while ignoring virtually all of the key strengths of the products they were bastardising (especially with RT). They’ve limited their niche to the kind of people who want to do more than they can with the currently popular idea of a ‘tablet’ but don’t want the power and versatility of a full-blown laptop. Had they gone down the road of Windows Mobile 7 with an optional but default app store instead of the almost complete re-imagining which was Windows
