Re: Managing image files
On Jul 26, 2010, at 1:05 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: Eric, this is one of the things that I fail to catch almost always unless it is the face to face real life conversation... Actually, I can identify, Boris. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On 7/12/2010 6:40 PM, Eric Weir wrote: I'd appreciate any advice folks here might have on what I gather is called work flow. My limited experience managing film images on a computer has not generated a comfortable way of working. I have a MacBook, and I can definitely say I'm not real comfortable with iPhoto. At this point I find it very confusing. I'd like to have a way of sorting through images, naming them where appropriate, and categorizing and filing them before I turn them over to iPhoto or its ilk. Eric, although I use Windows, it would still apply to you. Let me just add one more voice to those who recommended you use LightRoom. It is extremely well done piece of software. Not without quirks, but it is really convenient. I bought mine when it first came out, upgraded from 1.x to 2.x and recently to 3.0. Happy ever since. I don't do much of pixel level editing, except, may be, removing of sensor dust with heal brush. So LR fits my purpose just like I glove. You can download it and give it a fair try for free for a month or so as far as I understand. And it has both Win and Mac versions so that you can probably try it on your MacBook. HTH. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 25, 2010, at 7:27 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: Let me just add one more voice to those who recommended you use LightRoom. It is extremely well done piece of software. Not without quirks, but it is really convenient. I bought mine when it first came out, upgraded from 1.x to 2.x and recently to 3.0. Happy ever since. I don't do much of pixel level editing, except, may be, removing of sensor dust with heal brush. So LR fits my purpose just like I glove. Thanks, Boris. Following the advice you've given and that others have echoed -- or was it the other way around? -- I've downloaded Lightroom 3 for a one month trail. Looks like I'll be shelling out a few hundred bucks more on my developing photography hobby. Not that I won't need help now and then -- or maybe more often than that -- but it is very intuitive. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On 7/25/2010 5:25 PM, Eric Weir wrote: Thanks, Boris. Following the advice you've given and that others have echoed -- or was it the other way around? -- I've downloaded Lightroom 3 for a one month trail. Looks like I'll be shelling out a few hundred bucks more on my developing photography hobby. Not that I won't need help now and then -- or maybe more often than that -- but it is very intuitive. It is the other way around. I joined the chorus for LR just today ;-). Sure, if you have questions - you can always ask them both on list and off list. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
BTW, there's an excellent Lightroom forum on Flickr.com too. I participate (and moderate) there often. See: http://www.flickr.com/groups/adobe_lightroom/ On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 7:33 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/25/2010 5:25 PM, Eric Weir wrote: Thanks, Boris. Following the advice you've given and that others have echoed -- or was it the other way around? -- I've downloaded Lightroom 3 for a one month trail. Looks like I'll be shelling out a few hundred bucks more on my developing photography hobby. Not that I won't need help now and then -- or maybe more often than that -- but it is very intuitive. It is the other way around. I joined the chorus for LR just today ;-). Sure, if you have questions - you can always ask them both on list and off list. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Boris Liberman wrote: It is the other way around. I joined the chorus for LR just today ;-). I was being facetious, Boris! -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: BTW, there's an excellent Lightroom forum on Flickr.com too. I participate (and moderate) there often. Thanks for the heads up, Godfrey. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On 7/25/2010 7:09 PM, Eric Weir wrote: I was being facetious, Boris! Eric, this is one of the things that I fail to catch almost always unless it is the face to face real life conversation... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 14, 2010, at 20:33, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Another way to get a similar effect is to tag them with standardized subject keywords and use Smart Collections to organize them by subject inside Lightroom. They stay where they were put during the import process, but you can browse them by subject this way. They can also be in multiple subject categories this way ... say you have one category which is Portrait and another which is Landscape. If you have a very nice environmental portrait of a friend which also happens to be in a wonderful Landscape setting, you can keyword the image with both and it will be browseable in both contexts in the category-based smart collections. You can't do that without duplicating files in the file system, which is why it's an advantageous way to use the LR features. I so wish that I were on the Left Coast. I would take one of your LR classes in a heartbeat! -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 14, 2010, at 6:01 PM, steve harley wrote: On 2010-07-13 14:21 , Eric Weir wrote: The one thing that's absolutely critical for a filing system to work for me is the ability to rename and restructure files. My systems develop iteratively. I start. I see the need to restructure. That continues until I've got a relatively stable system worked out. Occasionally, it will need to be tweaked here and there. this is easy since filing on a computer need not be hierarchical; if you have a good tool, you can ignore the actual files and folders on the hard disk Thanks for sharing your way, Steve. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 14, 2010, at 6:44 PM, David Parsons wrote: You don't need to buy LR right away, Adobe has a 30 trial for LR so you can see if you like it before buying. I'd recommend doing that if you aren't sure. Thanks for the info on how LR works and how you use it, David. I've downloaded LR for trial, but haven't yet installed it. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 14, 2010, at 7:00 PM, Bob W wrote: LR flags the files as missing, but doesn't stop you from working with the associated previews, which is an argument for generating the highest resolution of preview. This gives you the option of working offsite from your filestore, perhaps keeping the photos on an exchangeable drive and taking a laptop on location. When you reconnect the filestore LR recognises that the files are no longer missing; the work you've done on the previews is automatically associated with the original files. Thanks for the clarification, Bob. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 14, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Lightroom is very flexible when it comes to how you organize your work, both with regard to the file system and its internal tools. The key is to understand how those things can work and use them according to a consistent policy that suits your needs. Thanks, Godrey. That would make it very compatible with the way I work with other files, paper and digital. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
Oh, I certainly do extensive tagging as well. I just like to have a folder structure as well as an organizational backup. On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 9:33 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi gdigio...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:44 PM, David Parsons parsons.da...@gmail.com wrote: ... When I import pictures, LR puts the files on my HDD by date and I process and tag them. After I've got them how I like them, I move them (inside LR) to different folders based on subject matter. I do this because that's how I like to do it. Another way to get a similar effect is to tag them with standardized subject keywords and use Smart Collections to organize them by subject inside Lightroom. They stay where they were put during the import process, but you can browse them by subject this way. They can also be in multiple subject categories this way ... say you have one category which is Portrait and another which is Landscape. If you have a very nice environmental portrait of a friend which also happens to be in a wonderful Landscape setting, you can keyword the image with both and it will be browseable in both contexts in the category-based smart collections. You can't do that without duplicating files in the file system, which is why it's an advantageous way to use the LR features. Lightroom is very flexible when it comes to how you organize your work, both with regard to the file system and its internal tools. The key is to understand how those things can work and use them according to a consistent policy that suits your needs. :-) -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:25 AM, David Parsons parsons.da...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, I certainly do extensive tagging as well. I just like to have a folder structure as well as an organizational backup. I didn't mean to say you didn't, or that it was the best solution for you. Everyone has their own best solution. It's simply another way to use the keyword data permitting more organizational structure, using the Smart Collection tool with the keyword data presents options not possible with a file system organizational structure alone. You can only organize the files physically in a file system one way at a time unless you duplicate them all over the place, which invites a lot of needless disk capacity waste and confusion over what is the most recent edit ... using this notion with Smart Collections allows multiple different ways to organize the files while minimizing confusion and disk space consumption. Whatever allows you to get your work done in a manner that is comfortable to you is always the best solution. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 14, 2010, at 2:16 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: I do have a few articles on topics about Photoshop, LIghtroom and Aperture available on-line for download ... see http://www.gdgphoto.com/articles/ Thanks for these, Godfrey. I've printed out a few, to get oriented a bit before starting my Lightroom trial. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: On Jul 13, 2010, at 10:07 PM, paul stenquist wrote: There's really nothing confusing here. If you shoot RAW, you convert to a tiff or jpeg and save the unadulterated RAW. That's the way it will work with either Elements or Lightroom. They won't overwrite the RAW. On the other hand, if you shoot jpegs and do some editing in elements, you would have to save your edited version with a different filename to avoid writing over your original. Lightroom, on the other hand, won't overwrite the original. That's a simplification, but in practical terms it is accurate. Thanks very much, Paul. It's beginning to sound like I might save myself a lotta trouble down the road if I went ahead right now and got myself a copy of LR at the cheapest price I can find. I highly recommend doing that, and doing the tutorial videos etc. I would invite you to sign up for my upcoming new image management/image processing workshops but you're a bit distant to make that practical (I'm in California, you're in Georgia ...). I'd enjoy finding a venue in your neighborhood and a body of students to attend about a six or seven session workshop series to fund doing a workshop series on the road ... ! I do have a few articles on topics about Photoshop, LIghtroom and Aperture available on-line for download ... see http://www.gdgphoto.com/articles/ I'm writing more ... :-) -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Managing image files
Christine Aguila wrote: Sent: 14 July 2010 04:53 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Managing image files - Original Message - From: Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:50 PM Subject: Re: Managing image files On Jul 13, 2010, at 15:39, Bob W wrote: Because LR can do all of this, I don't do any organisation of the files outside of LR. I import all the photographs into the same folder on disk, and use the camera-assigned name for the file. I see no point in organising them outside LR in parallel with LR. Other people take a different view and have their own organisation on disk, and various strategies are recommended by the authors of LR books. I agree with all of this, Bob. The only organization I do outside of LR (ie, before even importing them into LR) is to group into a month folder (2010_June, 2010_July, etc...) - this gives me a discrete collection of files which I can later back up. Typically (but not always) I have less than 4.7 gigs of images each month, which means I can both spin off a copy of the folder to a second harddrive AND burn a copy onto a couple of different DVDs. If I slopped everything into one huge folder I wouldn't have any handy way of grouping them for backup and the eventual move to off-line status. I agree with Charles who agrees with Bob W. Majority of my organization is done inside of Lightroom. And, if you're still reading this thread, Eric, you can easily move files around within Lightroom. You really should download a free trial version, watch the tutorials, and buy Scott Kelby's book. I own a copy and refer to it often. Cheers, Christine And I agree with Christine who agrees with Charles and Bob. I let Lightroom store images by date and use keywords to do the indexing and searching. I hardly ever use Photoshop nowadays, and haven't bothered to upgrade from CS3. My versions of LR and PS actually belong to my daughter- we purchased them for her when she was a student and got education discounts. Once bought, the upgrade pricing is almost reasonable. Chris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 14, 2010, at 2:52 AM, Chris Mitchell wrote: Christine Aguila wrote: Sent: 14 July 2010 04:53 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Managing image files - Original Message - From: Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:50 PM Subject: Re: Managing image files On Jul 13, 2010, at 15:39, Bob W wrote: Because LR can do all of this, I don't do any organisation of the files outside of LR. I import all the photographs into the same folder on disk, and use the camera-assigned name for the file. I see no point in organising them outside LR in parallel with LR. Other people take a different view and have their own organisation on disk, and various strategies are recommended by the authors of LR books. I agree with all of this, Bob. The only organization I do outside of LR (ie, before even importing them into LR) is to group into a month folder (2010_June, 2010_July, etc...) - this gives me a discrete collection of files which I can later back up. Typically (but not always) I have less than 4.7 gigs of images each month, which means I can both spin off a copy of the folder to a second harddrive AND burn a copy onto a couple of different DVDs. If I slopped everything into one huge folder I wouldn't have any handy way of grouping them for backup and the eventual move to off-line status. I agree with Charles who agrees with Bob W. Majority of my organization is done inside of Lightroom. And, if you're still reading this thread, Eric, you can easily move files around within Lightroom. You really should download a free trial version, watch the tutorials, and buy Scott Kelby's book. I own a copy and refer to it often. Cheers, Christine And I agree with Christine who agrees with Charles and Bob. I let Lightroom store images by date and use keywords to do the indexing and searching. I hardly ever use Photoshop nowadays, and haven't bothered to upgrade from CS3. My versions of LR and PS actually belong to my daughter- we purchased them for her when she was a student and got education discounts. Once bought, the upgrade pricing is almost reasonable. Chris I agree as well. If you're eventually going to use Lightroom, you're better off starting there. It's a different way of working than PhotoShop and Elements with Bridge, and there's no point in heading off in another direction. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 21:10, Eric Weir wrote: On Jul 13, 2010, at 5:50 PM, Charles Robinson wrote: The only organization I do outside of LR (ie, before even importing them into LR) is to group into a month folder (2010_June, 2010_July, etc...) - this gives me a discrete collection of files which I can later back up. Typically (but not always) I have less than 4.7 gigs of images each month, which means I can both spin off a copy of the folder to a second harddrive AND burn a copy onto a couple of different DVDs. If I slopped everything into one huge folder I wouldn't have any handy way of grouping them for backup and the eventual move to off-line status. So the folders you create before importing are for backup purposes only, in case you need them? You don't do any organizing within LR? I take it you do organize photos, i.e., edited versions of initial images? I do a LOT of organizing within LR but I don't move the physical files around anywhere. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 14, 2010, at 7:07 AM, paul stenquist wrote: I agree as well. If you're eventually going to use Lightroom, you're better off starting there. It's a different way of working than PhotoShop and Elements with Bridge, and there's no point in heading off in another direction. You -- all of you -- have got me persuaded. [What an education I've gotten here, recently, and since I first posted about finally getting started in digital.] I'll download the trial, and in the meantime see if I can find it cheaper than list somewhere. Getting someone to buy an educational copy for me has been mentioned. Not sure about that, ethics and legality aside. E.g., how could you register your copy if you have no educational affiliation? [Actually, I am sure about it the ethics and legality of it. And I guess that settles it.] Thanks again, Paul -- and everyone else. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On 2010-07-13 14:21 , Eric Weir wrote: The one thing that's absolutely critical for a filing system to work for me is the ability to rename and restructure files. My systems develop iteratively. I start. I see the need to restructure. That continues until I've got a relatively stable system worked out. Occasionally, it will need to be tweaked here and there. this is easy since filing on a computer need not be hierarchical; if you have a good tool, you can ignore the actual files and folders on the hard disk i use the date, rating, keywords, caption and location to file my photos; my choice of keywords evolves but is centered on subjects i'm interested in, and more is better; for example i take a lot of garden photos and a lot of weed photos; i also take pictures in my neighborhood and during my travels; if i take a picture of a weed in my neighborhood it gets the keywords weed, baker; if i take a picture in my own garden, it gets home, garden; any of those images may have other keywords such as umbel, insect or abstract my captions are specific, such as Latin names of plants, a specific event or things happening in the shot i do all of this with Aperture, which may not be as good as Lightroom, but it is definitely good enough (and it would be a pain to switch); in the process of importing images i have Aperture organize my photos into folders on the hard drive by year, month and day, but then i ignore the location and keep them in Aperture projects by year before Aperture i used iView Media Pro, which is now called Microsoft Expression Media; i used iView because i had also used it to catalog a large collection of my dad's vintage prints, making them searchable by galleries and researchers; i switched to Aperture because iView is a pure cataloging tool with no image manipulation or RAW development capability, and because iPhoto had nowhere near what i wanted; i use Photoshop for serious editing, but don't do edit my photos much despite a having spent part of the 90s as a Photoshop jockey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
The way Lightroom (LR) works is that for existing files, you tell it where the files are and it scans them and adds the files to it's database. Any keyword tagging, and edits that you make to the pictures are stored in the database. You don't deal directly with the RAW files after you import them into LR. The folders aren't for backup, they contain the actual files. When you make edits, LR doesn't write anything to the source files, and no files are created until you export. You still need the source files, and if you delete them, LR won't be able to work with the picture. As for organization, you can let LR handle it, or you can organize the files yourself, or anywhere in between. When I import pictures, LR puts the files on my HDD by date and I process and tag them. After I've got them how I like them, I move them (inside LR) to different folders based on subject matter. I do this because that's how I like to do it. You don't need to buy LR right away, Adobe has a 30 trial for LR so you can see if you like it before buying. I'd recommend doing that if you aren't sure. On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: On Jul 13, 2010, at 5:50 PM, Charles Robinson wrote: The only organization I do outside of LR (ie, before even importing them into LR) is to group into a month folder (2010_June, 2010_July, etc...) - this gives me a discrete collection of files which I can later back up. Typically (but not always) I have less than 4.7 gigs of images each month, which means I can both spin off a copy of the folder to a second harddrive AND burn a copy onto a couple of different DVDs. If I slopped everything into one huge folder I wouldn't have any handy way of grouping them for backup and the eventual move to off-line status. So the folders you create before importing are for backup purposes only, in case you need them? You don't do any organizing within LR? I take it you do organize photos, i.e., edited versions of initial images? [I suspect maybe it's time to hold off on my questions till I've had some experience trying to do it. It's beginning to feel like I could go on asking questions forever. Which would probably not be particularly helpful to me, and would just take up you guy's time. Though everyone seems eager to help, and I'm getting lots of helpful information.] -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Managing image files
[...] When you make edits, LR doesn't write anything to the source files, and no files are created until you export. You still need the source files, and if you delete them, LR won't be able to work with the picture. LR flags the files as missing, but doesn't stop you from working with the associated previews, which is an argument for generating the highest resolution of preview. This gives you the option of working offsite from your filestore, perhaps keeping the photos on an exchangeable drive and taking a laptop on location. When you reconnect the filestore LR recognises that the files are no longer missing; the work you've done on the previews is automatically associated with the original files. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:44 PM, David Parsons parsons.da...@gmail.com wrote: ... When I import pictures, LR puts the files on my HDD by date and I process and tag them. After I've got them how I like them, I move them (inside LR) to different folders based on subject matter. I do this because that's how I like to do it. Another way to get a similar effect is to tag them with standardized subject keywords and use Smart Collections to organize them by subject inside Lightroom. They stay where they were put during the import process, but you can browse them by subject this way. They can also be in multiple subject categories this way ... say you have one category which is Portrait and another which is Landscape. If you have a very nice environmental portrait of a friend which also happens to be in a wonderful Landscape setting, you can keyword the image with both and it will be browseable in both contexts in the category-based smart collections. You can't do that without duplicating files in the file system, which is why it's an advantageous way to use the LR features. Lightroom is very flexible when it comes to how you organize your work, both with regard to the file system and its internal tools. The key is to understand how those things can work and use them according to a consistent policy that suits your needs. :-) -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 12, 2010, at 10:34 PM, Christine Aguila wrote: I started with Elements, then soon tried Lightroom, and I've never wanted to use Elements again. I find Lightroom's photo management excellent, and I use Lightroom to upload to my web site for my PESOs and GESOs, and I'm going to use it for my online portfolio as well (I actually worked on that a bit today). It's s easy to do this once you have a web site. I HATE Elements' organizer for it's management stuff. Can't stand it. Clunky for me to use. Also, I really don't want to spend a lot of time with Photoshop layers and such. I want to try to take good pictures in-camera, so I have shorter post-process time. Because I can't do overly obsessive localized editing, I know I have to do good camera work to get an acceptable shot. Easier said than done to be sure, but I try. Anyway, using Lightroom helps me in this goal. Though you can do quite a bit of post-processing with Lightroom, and I checked out Lightroom 3 today, and wow, I want it, but I don't have 2 gigs of RAM or service pack 3. (Just had a conversation with hubby over dinner about the possibility of a new computer.) If you can, you should download a free trial of Lightroom 3. I'm pretty darn sure you'll like it. Thanks, Christine. I'm convinced about Lightroom. [It's a bit pricey for me though. Almost double what I paid for my used *ist DS -- with which, by the way, I am VERY happy.] And it is more the file management than the editing capability that I'm looking for. I like hearing a professional photographer saying what you said about taking good pictures in-camera. I think I can learn how to do that. I have no interest in learning how to edit images. Regards, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Managing image files
[...] Thanks, Christine. I'm convinced about Lightroom. [It's a bit pricey for me though. Almost double what I paid for my used *ist DS -- with which, by the way, I am VERY happy.] And it is more the file management than the editing capability that I'm looking for. I like hearing a professional photographer saying what you said about taking good pictures in-camera. I think I can learn how to do that. I have no interest in learning how to edit images. there are some things which you will have to be able to do from time to time. For instance, if you have a dustmark on your sensor which affects the picture you will need to be able to clone it out. You will also need to make adjustments to contrast and tone otherwise the raw file straight from the camera is rather drab, to say the least. Levelling horizons is also often a necessity. LR makes all of these things easy. In the film days I almost always shot slides, so I was used to framing and exposing with the inflexibility of slides in mind. However, you can 'take good pictures in camera' with a view to cropping later, so it will probably be useful to you to know how to do this in LR too (also very easy). B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Eric Weir wrote: On Jul 12, 2010, at 10:34 PM, Christine Aguila wrote: I started with Elements, then soon tried Lightroom, and I've never wanted to use Elements again. I find Lightroom's photo management excellent, and I use Lightroom to upload to my web site for my PESOs and GESOs, and I'm going to use it for my online portfolio as well (I actually worked on that a bit today). It's s easy to do this once you have a web site. I HATE Elements' organizer for it's management stuff. Can't stand it. Clunky for me to use. Also, I really don't want to spend a lot of time with Photoshop layers and such. I want to try to take good pictures in-camera, so I have shorter post-process time. Because I can't do overly obsessive localized editing, I know I have to do good camera work to get an acceptable shot. Easier said than done to be sure, but I try. Anyway, using Lightroom helps me in this goal. Though you can do quite a bit of post-processing with Lightroom, and I checked out Lightroom 3 today, and wow, I want it, but I don't have 2 gigs of RAM or service pack 3. (Just had a conversation with hubby over dinner about the possibility of a new computer.) If you can, you should download a free trial of Lightroom 3. I'm pretty darn sure you'll like it. Thanks, Christine. I'm convinced about Lightroom. [It's a bit pricey for me though. Almost double what I paid for my used *ist DS -- with which, by the way, I am VERY happy.] And it is more the file management than the editing capability that I'm looking for. I like hearing a professional photographer saying what you said about taking good pictures in-camera. I think I can learn how to do that. I have no interest in learning how to edit images. If you want to excel at digital photography, you should learn to both take good pictures in camera and edit them as needed. Cameras have their limitations in terms of white balance, dynamic range and more. Much can be done in conversion and post processing to enhance your work, even if you nail it in the camera. Lightroom is an excellent tool for most, although I prefer Photoshop, Bridge and ACR. That's partly because my work requires elaborate retouching at times, but it's also a function of my having developed my own keyword-based file system that works splendidly with Bridge. If your volume of work is going to be moderate, you can get a good start on things with Elements, providing its recent enough to allow for conversion of your camera's RAW files. (I'm guessing from your previous messages that you already have that software.) Paul Regards, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:04 PM, Bob W wrote: there are some things which you will have to be able to do from time to time. For instance, if you have a dustmark on your sensor which affects the picture you will need to be able to clone it out. You will also need to make adjustments to contrast and tone otherwise the raw file straight from the camera is rather drab, to say the least. Levelling horizons is also often a necessity. LR makes all of these things easy. Thanks, Bob. I'm open to that sort of thing. Just not interested in getting deeply involved in highly technical editing. [Actually, probably no great risk anyway, as I'm likely incapable of understanding things on that level.] -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:12 PM, paul stenquist wrote: If your volume of work is going to be moderate, you can get a good start on things with Elements, providing its recent enough to allow for conversion of your camera's RAW files. (I'm guessing from your previous messages that you already have that software.) Thanks, Paul. Most likely, that's me. [1] Does Elements have basic file management capabilities? [Better than IPhoto?] [2] If go ahead and start using Elements, since I have it, will I be able to access the original unedited image and the work I've done on it from Lightroom? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Eric Weir wrote: On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:12 PM, paul stenquist wrote: If your volume of work is going to be moderate, you can get a good start on things with Elements, providing its recent enough to allow for conversion of your camera's RAW files. (I'm guessing from your previous messages that you already have that software.) Thanks, Paul. Most likely, that's me. [1] Does Elements have basic file management capabilities? [Better than IPhoto?] [2] If go ahead and start using Elements, since I have it, will I be able to access the original unedited image and the work I've done on it from Lightroom? I'm not sure if Elements has file management capability. Newer versions may come with Bridge, which is Adobe's across-the-board file manager.. Perhaps someone else here can answer. If not, organizing your files is fairly simple, since your camera will number them sequentially. All you really have to do is arrange them in folders with key word descriptions. Yes, you can access any edited or unedited file from Lightroom. Paul -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:33 PM, paul stenquist wrote: I'm not sure if Elements has file management capability. Newer versions may come with Bridge, which is Adobe's across-the-board file manager.. I've got Bridge. If not, organizing your files is fairly simple, since your camera will number them sequentially. All you really have to do is arrange them in folders with key word descriptions. My inclination would be to view the images, select those I want to keep, assign names when appropriate, and then file them in folders with names that have meaning to me, e.g., associated with the occasion around which the images were created. Sounds like that might not be advised? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Eric Weir wrote: On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:33 PM, paul stenquist wrote: I'm not sure if Elements has file management capability. Newer versions may come with Bridge, which is Adobe's across-the-board file manager.. I've got Bridge. If not, organizing your files is fairly simple, since your camera will number them sequentially. All you really have to do is arrange them in folders with key word descriptions. My inclination would be to view the images, select those I want to keep, assign names when appropriate, and then file them in folders with names that have meaning to me, e.g., associated with the occasion around which the images were created. Sounds like that might not be advised? Whatever works for you is good if it allows you to retrieve the file you want. I simply download the entire camera folder onto a drive and name it for the date and content. For example 7-14-10 farmers market. If the folder hasn't been backed up yet, it's b7-14-10 farmers market. I keep the RAWs in the folder and return edited versions there as well with new names. If everything in the folder relates to the folder name, I usually just use the camera file number as the file name, but remove the letter prefix. In some cases, I assign a file name to the image that includes the date. For example: grace71310. Either way, I'll be able to find any file by searching for a folder or file name. Because Bridge recognizes the dates as a sequence, it arranges the folders chronologically. Paul -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 4:00 PM, P N Stenquist wrote: Whatever works for you is good if it allows you to retrieve the file you want. I simply download the entire camera folder onto a drive and name it for the date and content. For example 7-14-10 farmers market. If the folder hasn't been backed up yet, it's b7-14-10 farmers market. I keep the RAWs in the folder and return edited versions there as well with new names. If everything in the folder relates to the folder name, I usually just use the camera file number as the file name, but remove the letter prefix. In some cases, I assign a file name to the image that includes the date. For example: grace71310. Either way, I'll be able to find any file by searching for a folder or file name. Because Bridge recognizes the dates as a sequence, it arranges the folders chronologically. Thanks again, Paul. In my professional life and otherwise I've always been pretty good at organizing paper files. [Colleagues used to come to me for copies of *their* documents.] Likewise with nongraphic digital files. I imagine I'll work my way into a process that works for me. The one thing that's absolutely critical for a filing system to work for me is the ability to rename and restructure files. My systems develop iteratively. I start. I see the need to restructure. That continues until I've got a relatively stable system worked out. Occasionally, it will need to be tweaked here and there. If I had to create the structure ahead of time I'd never be able to do it. That's what I don't like about iPhoto. It seems to have a mind of its own regarding organization of images. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Managing image files
If not, organizing your files is fairly simple, since your camera will number them sequentially. All you really have to do is arrange them in folders with key word descriptions. My inclination would be to view the images, select those I want to keep, assign names when appropriate, and then file them in folders with names that have meaning to me, e.g., associated with the occasion around which the images were created. Sounds like that might not be advised? You can use Lightroom to organise the files by collection within its catalogue; photographs are not limited to being in one collection. You can also use keywords and various metadata to search and to set up 'smart' collections, which are essentially named searches. Because LR can do all of this, I don't do any organisation of the files outside of LR. I import all the photographs into the same folder on disk, and use the camera-assigned name for the file. I see no point in organising them outside LR in parallel with LR. Other people take a different view and have their own organisation on disk, and various strategies are recommended by the authors of LR books. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Bob W wrote: You can use Lightroom to organise the files by collection within its catalogue; photographs are not limited to being in one collection. You can also use keywords and various metadata to search and to set up 'smart' collections, which are essentially named searches. Because LR can do all of this, I don't do any organisation of the files outside of LR. I import all the photographs into the same folder on disk, and use the camera-assigned name for the file. I see no point in organising them outside LR in parallel with LR. Other people take a different view and have their own organisation on disk, and various strategies are recommended by the authors of LR books. Thanks, Bob. I'll have your suggestion in mind over the next few weeks. The list's calling attention to Bridge has gotten me started today. I think I'll go back and forth between it and Elements till I come up with a copy of Lightroom. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: [1] Does Elements have basic file management capabilities? [Better than IPhoto?] [2] If go ahead and start using Elements, since I have it, will I be able to access the original unedited image and the work I've done on it from Lightroom? Photoshop Elements doesn't have any file management at all. It's album companion app, only available on Windows, has some rather rudimentary (and proprietary) file management. iPhoto has completely automated file management ... it's not designed for the USER to ever touch the files themselves at all once you've brought them into iPhoto. Lightroom file management allows you to track and work with image files by reference. They're available to you in the file system where you put them, and you can screw things up any way you want by moving them in ways that don't allow Lightroom to track them. Aperture allows this same kind of file management (by reference) but will also allow you to do fully automated file management (like iPhoto) as well. In the end, you want to manage your PHOTOGRAPHS, not your files. That's what LR, Aperture and iPhoto allow you to do to a great degree, abstracting away the need to track and manipulate the files themselves. Photoshop and other pixel editors simply open, close, save, and create files. They don't manage anything. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: [2] If go ahead and start using Elements, since I have it, will I be able to access the original unedited image and the work I've done on it from Lightroom? Only if YOU maintain an original, unedited copy of the image file, or if the image file is a raw file (which Adobe Camera Raw considers to be a read-only file). - Pixel editors push around the pixels in the file you open with them, so any time you open a file and make a change to it, then save, the file is no longer as it was and cannot be recovered. That is called destructive editing. Working with raw files differs in that the raw conversion plugin considers the original raw file to be read-only so it renders a new converted file for editing and leaves the original file in place. - Lightroom, iPhoto and Aperture all do parametric editing ... the original file (raw, JPEG, TIFF, whatever) is saved and read, they generate previews to show you what your editing operations are. To obtain a new, finished file containing all your edits, you export from these three applications new, finished files. The originals are always untouched. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 15:39, Bob W wrote: Because LR can do all of this, I don't do any organisation of the files outside of LR. I import all the photographs into the same folder on disk, and use the camera-assigned name for the file. I see no point in organising them outside LR in parallel with LR. Other people take a different view and have their own organisation on disk, and various strategies are recommended by the authors of LR books. I agree with all of this, Bob. The only organization I do outside of LR (ie, before even importing them into LR) is to group into a month folder (2010_June, 2010_July, etc...) - this gives me a discrete collection of files which I can later back up. Typically (but not always) I have less than 4.7 gigs of images each month, which means I can both spin off a copy of the folder to a second harddrive AND burn a copy onto a couple of different DVDs. If I slopped everything into one huge folder I wouldn't have any handy way of grouping them for backup and the eventual move to off-line status. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: iPhoto has completely automated file management ... it's not designed for the USER to ever touch the files themselves at all once you've brought them into iPhoto. Thanks for describing so succinctly what it is I only sensed, and what I don't like, about IPhoto. Lightroom file management allows you to track and work with image files by reference. They're available to you in the file system where you put them, and you can screw things up any way you want by moving them in ways that don't allow Lightroom to track them. I've been persuaded today about Lightroom. Just need to wait till I can afford to splurge on it. And thanks for alerting me to a way I could screw things up. Otherwise I could easily have screwed them up. What others are saying about the way them manage their files is starting to make sense. In the end, you want to manage your PHOTOGRAPHS, not your files. That's what LR, Aperture and iPhoto allow you to do to a great degree, abstracting away the need to track and manipulate the files themselves. Hmm. Photos vs. files. What I do with the original [image] files vs. the original files themselves? The image is not the photo? The photo is what I do with the image? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Only if YOU maintain an original, unedited copy of the image file, or if the image file is a raw file (which Adobe Camera Raw considers to be a read-only file). - Pixel editors push around the pixels in the file you open with them, so any time you open a file and make a change to it, then save, the file is no longer as it was and cannot be recovered. That is called destructive editing. Working with raw files differs in that the raw conversion plugin considers the original raw file to be read-only so it renders a new converted file for editing and leaves the original file in place. - Lightroom, iPhoto and Aperture all do parametric editing ... the original file (raw, JPEG, TIFF, whatever) is saved and read, they generate previews to show you what your editing operations are. To obtain a new, finished file containing all your edits, you export from these three applications new, finished files. The originals are always untouched. Thanks again, Godfrey. I think this answers the questions I asked in my response to your previous post. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, Eric Weir wrote: On Jul 13, 2010, at 5:20 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: iPhoto has completely automated file management ... it's not designed for the USER to ever touch the files themselves at all once you've brought them into iPhoto. Thanks for describing so succinctly what it is I only sensed, and what I don't like, about IPhoto. Lightroom file management allows you to track and work with image files by reference. They're available to you in the file system where you put them, and you can screw things up any way you want by moving them in ways that don't allow Lightroom to track them. I've been persuaded today about Lightroom. Just need to wait till I can afford to splurge on it. And thanks for alerting me to a way I could screw things up. Otherwise I could easily have screwed them up. What others are saying about the way them manage their files is starting to make sense. In the end, you want to manage your PHOTOGRAPHS, not your files. That's what LR, Aperture and iPhoto allow you to do to a great degree, abstracting away the need to track and manipulate the files themselves. Hmm. Photos vs. files. What I do with the original [image] files vs. the original files themselves? The image is not the photo? The photo is what I do with the image? There's really nothing confusing here. If you shoot RAW, you convert to a tiff or jpeg and save the unadulterated RAW. That's the way it will work with either Elements or Lightroom. They won't overwrite the RAW. On the other hand, if you shoot jpegs and do some editing in elements, you would have to save your edited version with a different filename to avoid writing over your original. Lightroom, on the other hand, won't overwrite the original. Paul -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 5:50 PM, Charles Robinson wrote: The only organization I do outside of LR (ie, before even importing them into LR) is to group into a month folder (2010_June, 2010_July, etc...) - this gives me a discrete collection of files which I can later back up. Typically (but not always) I have less than 4.7 gigs of images each month, which means I can both spin off a copy of the folder to a second harddrive AND burn a copy onto a couple of different DVDs. If I slopped everything into one huge folder I wouldn't have any handy way of grouping them for backup and the eventual move to off-line status. So the folders you create before importing are for backup purposes only, in case you need them? You don't do any organizing within LR? I take it you do organize photos, i.e., edited versions of initial images? [I suspect maybe it's time to hold off on my questions till I've had some experience trying to do it. It's beginning to feel like I could go on asking questions forever. Which would probably not be particularly helpful to me, and would just take up you guy's time. Though everyone seems eager to help, and I'm getting lots of helpful information.] -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
Eric - You are at the stage where spending $25 on a one month membership to kelbytraining.com will be well worth the time and money. There are several video tutorials on each of the products mentioned. The Lightroom series by Matt Kloskowski are excellent. You can also download free, 30 day, trial versions of the products from the adobe website. GS On Tuesday, July 13, 2010, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: On Jul 13, 2010, at 5:50 PM, Charles Robinson wrote: The only organization I do outside of LR (ie, before even importing them into LR) is to group into a month folder (2010_June, 2010_July, etc...) - this gives me a discrete collection of files which I can later back up. Typically (but not always) I have less than 4.7 gigs of images each month, which means I can both spin off a copy of the folder to a second harddrive AND burn a copy onto a couple of different DVDs. If I slopped everything into one huge folder I wouldn't have any handy way of grouping them for backup and the eventual move to off-line status. So the folders you create before importing are for backup purposes only, in case you need them? You don't do any organizing within LR? I take it you do organize photos, i.e., edited versions of initial images? [I suspect maybe it's time to hold off on my questions till I've had some experience trying to do it. It's beginning to feel like I could go on asking questions forever. Which would probably not be particularly helpful to me, and would just take up you guy's time. Though everyone seems eager to help, and I'm getting lots of helpful information.] -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- George Sinos gsi...@gmail.com www.georgesphotos.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 13, 2010, at 10:07 PM, paul stenquist wrote: There's really nothing confusing here. If you shoot RAW, you convert to a tiff or jpeg and save the unadulterated RAW. That's the way it will work with either Elements or Lightroom. They won't overwrite the RAW. On the other hand, if you shoot jpegs and do some editing in elements, you would have to save your edited version with a different filename to avoid writing over your original. Lightroom, on the other hand, won't overwrite the original. Thanks very much, Paul. It's beginning to sound like I might save myself a lotta trouble down the road if I went ahead right now and got myself a copy of LR at the cheapest price I can find. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
- Original Message - From: Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:50 PM Subject: Re: Managing image files On Jul 13, 2010, at 15:39, Bob W wrote: Because LR can do all of this, I don't do any organisation of the files outside of LR. I import all the photographs into the same folder on disk, and use the camera-assigned name for the file. I see no point in organising them outside LR in parallel with LR. Other people take a different view and have their own organisation on disk, and various strategies are recommended by the authors of LR books. I agree with all of this, Bob. The only organization I do outside of LR (ie, before even importing them into LR) is to group into a month folder (2010_June, 2010_July, etc...) - this gives me a discrete collection of files which I can later back up. Typically (but not always) I have less than 4.7 gigs of images each month, which means I can both spin off a copy of the folder to a second harddrive AND burn a copy onto a couple of different DVDs. If I slopped everything into one huge folder I wouldn't have any handy way of grouping them for backup and the eventual move to off-line status. I agree with Charles who agrees with Bob W. Majority of my organization is done inside of Lightroom. And, if you're still reading this thread, Eric, you can easily move files around within Lightroom. You really should download a free trial version, watch the tutorials, and buy Scott Kelby's book. I own a copy and refer to it often. Cheers, Christine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
You may want to find someone entitled to buy for you a teacher/student edition of lightroom; they're sold at a 75% discount in Germany and it should be about the same in the US. Cheers Ecke 2010/7/12 Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net: I took my new *ist D to a community kitchen event yesterday and got my first set of serious images, i.e., when I wasn't just fooling around to see how the thing works. Judging from the images as displayed on the camera's LCD there may be a couple good ones among them. I'd appreciate any advice folks here might have on what I gather is called work flow. My limited experience managing film images on a computer has not generated a comfortable way of working. I have a MacBook, and I can definitely say I'm not real comfortable with iPhoto. At this point I find it very confusing. I'd like to have a way of sorting through images, naming them where appropriate, and categorizing and filing them before I turn them over to iPhoto or its ilk. I recently encountered something called Photo Mechanic that looks like it would enable me to do what I want. I'm tempted to just go ahead and buy it, but I thought [1] I'd check it out here first. Anyone have any experience with. Anything else more or less in the same price range that you'd recommend? [2] Also whether what I want to do, as crudely as I've described it, makes sense. In addition to iPhoto I have Photoshop elements, though at this point I'm not eager to get into editing. Too early in the learning curve. Thanks, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 12, 2010, at 11:44 AM, eckinator wrote: You may want to find someone entitled to buy for you a teacher/student edition of lightroom; they're sold at a 75% discount in Germany and it should be about the same in the US. Thanks, ecke. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Managing image files
try Lightroom http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshoplightroom/ -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Eric Weir Sent: 12 July 2010 16:41 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Managing image files I took my new *ist D to a community kitchen event yesterday and got my first set of serious images, i.e., when I wasn't just fooling around to see how the thing works. Judging from the images as displayed on the camera's LCD there may be a couple good ones among them. I'd appreciate any advice folks here might have on what I gather is called work flow. My limited experience managing film images on a computer has not generated a comfortable way of working. I have a MacBook, and I can definitely say I'm not real comfortable with iPhoto. At this point I find it very confusing. I'd like to have a way of sorting through images, naming them where appropriate, and categorizing and filing them before I turn them over to iPhoto or its ilk. I recently encountered something called Photo Mechanic that looks like it would enable me to do what I want. I'm tempted to just go ahead and buy it, but I thought [1] I'd check it out here first. Anyone have any experience with. Anything else more or less in the same price range that you'd recommend? [2] Also whether what I want to do, as crudely as I've described it, makes sense. In addition to iPhoto I have Photoshop elements, though at this point I'm not eager to get into editing. Too early in the learning curve. Thanks, --- --- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 12, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Bob W wrote: try Lightroom Thanks, Bob. Curious -- how does it differ from Elements? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: On Jul 12, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Bob W wrote: try Lightroom Thanks, Bob. Curious -- how does it differ from Elements? -- Eric Weir Lightroom is designed specifically for Photography, offers far more robust image management and more control over RAW conversions but doesn't offer as much localized editing capability or most of the non-photographic oriented tools which Elements has. -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 12, 2010, at 8:40 AM, Eric Weir wrote: I took my new *ist D to a community kitchen event yesterday and got my first set of serious images, i.e., when I wasn't just fooling around to see how the thing works. Judging from the images as displayed on the camera's LCD there may be a couple good ones among them. I'd appreciate any advice folks here might have on what I gather is called work flow. My limited experience managing film images on a computer has not generated a comfortable way of working. I have a MacBook, and I can definitely say I'm not real comfortable with iPhoto. At this point I find it very confusing. I'd like to have a way of sorting through images, naming them where appropriate, and categorizing and filing them before I turn them over to iPhoto or its ilk. My limited experience with iPhoto has been rather bad. It may have gotten a lot better, but I thought it was rather annoying. I used to use Bibble pro, which had two great features: It is relatively inexpensive. It'll run on Linux, Mac and Windows. The upgrade from Bibble 4 to Bibble 5 took so long that in the meantime I moved to lightroom. I was able to get great prices through a friend at adobe and bought both lightroom and photoshop. I hardly ever use photoshop, and LR3 now has most of the features from PS that I used to do use. All in all, I like lightroom. It does pretty much all of the editing stuff I need, and it is great for managing the files. It also has the major advantage of being the software that most people seem to use, which makes it easy to find someone to ask when you can't figure out how to do something. Unfortunately, this comes up much more than I'd like because there doesn't seem to be any good way to figure out if lightroom will do something, and if so how. I've got several books on lightroom, and if you don't happen to know what they call a particular task, you can be SOL trying to find it in the index. There have been several times that when I look up the word for what I want to do, lightroom uses that word to do something vaguely similar, but not what I need. There is also a fair bit of religion involved in some of the subtleties of the workflow. Godfrey puts on a good class on how to use LR, but that'll only help you if you're close to the bay area. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
Adam Maas wrote: RAW conversion I don't think anyone has had the bottle to mention this yet. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On 2010-07-12 13:52, Adam Maas wrote: try Lightroom Thanks, Bob. Curious -- how does it differ from Elements? -- Eric Weir Lightroom is designed specifically for Photography, offers far more robust image management and more control over RAW conversions but doesn't offer as much localized editing capability or most of the non-photographic oriented tools which Elements has. Lightroom is about portfolios and has photo editing/manipulation capabilities. Elements is about photo editing/manipulation and has (a very few) portfolio capabilities. At least that's /my/ take on it. :-) -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Managing image files
try Lightroom Thanks, Bob. Curious -- how does it differ from Elements? no idea - I've never used Elements. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 12, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Larry Colen wrote: My limited experience with iPhoto has been rather bad. It may have gotten a lot better, but I thought it was rather annoying. That's been my reaction. I feel like I'm forced to surrender my images to it, and then it seems to have a mind of its own about what to do with them. . . . . All in all, I like lightroom. It does pretty much all of the editing stuff I need, and it is great for managing the files. It also has the major advantage of being the software that most people seem to use, which makes it easy to find someone to ask when you can't figure out how to do something. No small advantage for those of us who're not so geeky. Thanks, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 12, 2010, at 4:02 PM, Doug Franklin wrote: Lightroom is about portfolios and has photo editing/manipulation capabilities. Elements is about photo editing/manipulation and has (a very few) portfolio capabilities. At least that's /my/ take on it. :-) Thanks, Doug. That's helpful. And more like what I'm looking for. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net wrote: On Jul 12, 2010, at 4:02 PM, Doug Franklin wrote: Lightroom is about portfolios and has photo editing/manipulation capabilities. Elements is about photo editing/manipulation and has (a very few) portfolio capabilities. At least that's /my/ take on it. :-) Thanks, Doug. That's helpful. And more like what I'm looking for. I'm not entirely sure what Doug refers to as portfolios capabilities. Lightroom has image management capabilities, that is: - it knows where the image files you've told it about are, both on live and off-line volumes - it allows you to add keywords and other metadata to annotate the photos it is managing - it has a great deal of search and browse capabilities (and again that refers to photos on live and off-line volumes) as well as facilities for sorting, grading, renaming, and organizing images to speed workflow. - it allows you to do the bulk of standard photographic editing required to raw, JPEG, TIFF and PSD image files (crop, spot, tonal and color adjustments, etc), all with the same UI on the same tool set, non-destructively. It's editing capabilities stop short of anything having to do with multiple image compositing (anything associated with HDR or panorama compositing, for instance) or pixel-level editing (actually changing specific individual pixel values of the original files). - it has well-integrated facilities to open images for editing in Photoshop, Photoshop Elements, and other pixel-level image processing applications when that level of functionality is required, all the while keeping them organized within the Lightroom scope of operations. - it provides four convenient and template-able output facilities ... export, slide show, print and web ... to generate rendered versions of your original files for use outside the Lightroom environment. - it can be used to edit one photo at a time or an arbitrary number of photos simultaneously, for both metadata or image rendering. The presets and templates allow you to design development instructions, export, slide show, printing and web gallery layouts once and then apply them at any time to whatever photo or group of photos you choose. In sum, Lightroom is an image-management application with a great depth of image processing services. Photoshop and similar applications are image processing applications. Lightroom is designed to work stand-alone and with other image processing applications to allow construction of appropriate policies and operations suitable for a complete photographic workflow. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
On Jul 12, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: In sum, Lightroom is an image-management application with a great depth of image processing services. Photoshop and similar applications are image processing applications. Lightroom is designed to work stand-alone and with other image processing applications to allow construction of appropriate policies and operations suitable for a complete photographic workflow. Thanks, Godfrey. That too is very helpful. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@bellsouth.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Managing image files
- Original Message - From: Eric Weir eew...@bellsouth.net On Jul 12, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Bob W wrote: try Lightroom Thanks, Bob. Curious -- how does it differ from Elements? Hi Eric: I started with Elements, then soon tried Lightroom, and I've never wanted to use Elements again. I find Lightroom's photo management excellent, and I use Lightroom to upload to my web site for my PESOs and GESOs, and I'm going to use it for my online portfolio as well (I actually worked on that a bit today). It's s easy to do this once you have a web site. I HATE Elements' organizer for it's management stuff. Can't stand it. Clunky for me to use. Also, I really don't want to spend a lot of time with Photoshop layers and such. I want to try to take good pictures in-camera, so I have shorter post-process time. Because I can't do overly obsessive localized editing, I know I have to do good camera work to get an acceptable shot. Easier said than done to be sure, but I try. Anyway, using Lightroom helps me in this goal. Though you can do quite a bit of post-processing with Lightroom, and I checked out Lightroom 3 today, and wow, I want it, but I don't have 2 gigs of RAM or service pack 3. (Just had a conversation with hubby over dinner about the possibility of a new computer.) If you can, you should download a free trial of Lightroom 3. I'm pretty darn sure you'll like it. Cheers, Christine -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
