Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
Morning Jiri, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKc_XGuvNIk I watched it last night. Interesting. I did notice a couple of things that may or may not be relevant. The ARM demo was described as something we are working on so I presume it's not finished, which is probably why there isn't a version of Windows for ARM. (Yet?) But, having said that, I'm sure a lot of those netbooks have ARM processors in them and XP supposedly runs on them, so maybe I'm wrong. When demonstrating the ARM system, he kept saying Windows Client. Now I've never heard anyone refer to Windows as Windows Client before, so I'm wondering if the ARM stuff is just a thin client package running Windows from soemthing like a Citrix server [or server farm - Citrix is extremely resource hungry]. Just a couple of observations. Cheers, Norm. PS. I posted this last night from my tablet but it doesn't appear to have appeared - I wonder why. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
On 04/08/11 01:18, Marcel Kilgus wrote: No, it's a proper, native port. Notice how he says that they've re-compiled office for the ARM architecture. Windows NT used to be available for several platforms (x86, MIPS, PPC, IA64), then it was x86 only, now they again did a real ARM port to try to get their share of the netbook/tablet market. Ok, thanks. I was wondering about his choice of words. I have to admit, I never heard him say that they had recompiled Office. Cheers, Norm. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
On 04/08/11 08:38, Norman Dunbar wrote: PS. I posted this last night from my tablet but it doesn't appear to have appeared - I wonder why. I've noticed that although I replied, it has come up as a separate thread. Interesting. Cheers, Norm. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
In the latest issue of gamesTM, page 20, there is an article on the Raspberry Pi which is basically a £20 pc. This device is the size of a USB memory stick, has a USB port one end an a HDMI the other. The provisional specs are decent enough, a 700Mhz ARM11 , 256MB SDRAM, OpenGL ES 2.0, 1080p30 H.264 high profile decoder, Composite and HDMI video output, USB 2.0, SD/MMC/SDIO memory card slot. It comes with a simple Linux based Operating system. Developed by David Braben (!) and Dr Eben Upton of the Raspberry Pi Foundation. The idea of the device is to plug it into a USB hub Back to the article and back on topic... It mentions Sir Clive Electronic Innovation and tinkering is a grand British tradition that's slowly died out since the days of Sir Clive Sinclair stalking the cobbled streets of Cambridge in his little three-wheeled buggy..[snip] Aimed at Education it is awaiting Government support. Interesting! Neil *** The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 01793-715380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email communications. BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House, Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ. Registered No. 5290544 England www.boxclever.co.uk *** ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
On 03/08/2011 09:28, Neil Riley wrote: In the latest issue of gamesTM, page 20, there is an article on the Raspberry Pi which is basically a £20 pc. This device is the size of a USB memory stick, has a USB port one end an a HDMI the other. The provisional specs are decent enough, a 700Mhz ARM11 , 256MB SDRAM, OpenGL ES 2.0, 1080p30 H.264 high profile decoder, Composite and HDMI video output, USB 2.0, SD/MMC/SDIO memory card slot. It comes with a simple Linux based Operating system. Developed by David Braben (!) and Dr Eben Upton of the Raspberry Pi Foundation. The idea of the device is to plug it into a USB hub Back to the article and back on topic... It mentions Sir Clive Electronic Innovation and tinkering is a grand British tradition that's slowly died out since the days of Sir Clive Sinclair stalking the cobbled streets of Cambridge in his little three-wheeled buggy..[snip] Aimed at Education it is awaiting Government support. Interesting! Neil Simon first broke this news at the beginning of June Neil and there have been a number of update posts with more detail since. Bryan H UK ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
Bryan Horstmann b...@newlan.org 03 August 2011 10:00 On 03/08/2011 09:28, Neil Riley wrote: In the latest issue of gamesTM, page 20 Electronic Innovation and tinkering is a grand British tradition that's slowly died out since the days of Sir Clive Sinclair stalking the cobbled streets of Cambridge in his little three-wheeled buggy..[snip] Simon first broke this news at the beginning of June Neil and there have been a number of update posts with more detail since. Bryan H UK My mistake however the mention of Clive in this months GamesTM is new so I don't feel 100% stupid, just 80% :p Neil ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm *** The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 01793-715380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email communications. BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House, Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ. Registered No. 5290544 England www.boxclever.co.uk *** ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
In the latest issue of gamesTM, page 20, there is an article on the Raspberry Pi which is basically a £20 pc. If it comes with Linux, one of the Linux QL emulators (uQLx, QLay for Linux) with it... bingo, a £20 QL. If it is at the heart of it a PC, it might not be too long before somebody finds a way to put Windows on it, even though that would mean Windows would be on an unsupported platform and Windows would cost more than the PC it ran on! Alternatively, if the Linux on it was capable of supporting WINE or some such Windows environment, and the processor is up to it, it might open up possibilities for QemuLator, QPC2 and QL2K for example. In this case, just think, a £20 system could emulate all our favourite 1980s home computers! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
On 03/08/2011 10:42, Dilwyn Jones wrote: In the latest issue of gamesTM, page 20, there is an article on the Raspberry Pi which is basically a £20 pc. If it comes with Linux, one of the Linux QL emulators (uQLx, QLay for Linux) with it... bingo, a £20 QL. If it is at the heart of it a PC, it might not be too long before somebody finds a way to put Windows on it, even though that would mean Windows would be on an unsupported platform and Windows would cost more than the PC it ran on! Alternatively, if the Linux on it was capable of supporting WINE or some such Windows environment, and the processor is up to it, it might open up possibilities for QemuLator, QPC2 and QL2K for example. In this case, just think, a £20 system could emulate all our favourite 1980s home computers! Dilwyn Jones I think from the later info this is a $20 computer £15 to us. There is also some info that WINE isn't an emulator but DOSBOX might be useable. I believe someone from the QL community has already had contact with them about getting SBASIC or similar on. Portable Apps is a way of running prograns without installing on the host machine and slowing the machine down with installed programmes used infrequently. Bryan H ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
On Aug 3, at 11:04 | Aug3, Bryan Horstmann wrote: On 03/08/2011 10:42, Dilwyn Jones wrote: In the latest issue of gamesTM, page 20, there is an article on the Raspberry Pi which is basically a £20 pc. If it comes with Linux, one of the Linux QL emulators (uQLx, QLay for Linux) with it... bingo, a £20 QL. If it is at the heart of it a PC, it might not be too long before somebody finds a way to put Windows on it, even though that would mean Windows would be on an unsupported platform and Windows would cost more than the PC it ran on! Alternatively, if the Linux on it was capable of supporting WINE or some such Windows environment, and the processor is up to it, it might open up possibilities for QemuLator, QPC2 and QL2K for example. In this case, just think, a £20 system could emulate all our favourite 1980s home computers! Dilwyn Jones I think from the later info this is a $20 computer £15 to us. There is also some info that WINE isn't an emulator but DOSBOX might be useable. I believe someone from the QL community has already had contact with them about getting SBASIC or similar on. Portable Apps is a way of running prograns without installing on the host machine and slowing the machine down with installed programmes used infrequently. $25: http://www.raspberrypi.org/ … with 128Mb and no LAN. $30-35 for 256mb ram plus LAN. I reckon it is *not* suitable for even Windows XP. It would struggle, esp as it is probably a slow processor. I presume all permanent storage is external via USB. I see no mention of on-board flash. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
On 03/08/2011 10:42, Dilwyn Jones wrote: In the latest issue of gamesTM, page 20, there is an article on the Raspberry Pi which is basically a £20 pc. If it comes with Linux, one of the Linux QL emulators (uQLx, QLay for Linux) with it... bingo, a £20 QL. If it is at the heart of it a PC, it might not be too long before somebody finds a way to put Windows on it, even though that would mean Windows would be on an unsupported platform and Windows would cost more than the PC it ran on! Alternatively, if the Linux on it was capable of supporting WINE or some such Windows environment, and the processor is up to it, it might open up possibilities for QemuLator, QPC2 and QL2K for example. In this case, just think, a £20 system could emulate all our favourite 1980s home computers! Dilwyn Jones I think from the later info this is a $20 computer £15 to us. There is also some info that WINE isn't an emulator but DOSBOX might be useable. I believe someone from the QL community has already had contact with them about getting SBASIC or similar on. Portable Apps is a way of running prograns without installing on the host machine and slowing the machine down with installed programmes used infrequently. Bryan H Yes, that someone (and it wasn't me) got a reply indicating that some form of scripting language such as BBC BASIC or SuperBASIC could be supplied if they chose to do so and subject to copyright issues, plus a comment about the QL being a much underrated machine - so they are clearly aware of the QL and its merits. On the other hand, BBC micro seems to be the focus of their comments, as they talk of a model A with 128MB RAM and model B with 256MB. The 'model B' seems to have a few more bits and pieces like a network cable socket built in. I guess that since it's a credit card sized device, it can't go any smaller because fo the size of the USB and video connectors, for example. Ther website says availability later in 2011. Alpha version boards were sent for manufacture on 25th July and they say the resulting units will be used to validate the schematic design, and will serve as our interim software development platform. No mention of programmability that I could see in a quick scan of the website apart from the Linux OS, although it does say it has an ARM processor and no casing design to show as yet. Interestingly they proudly proclaim they are adequately funded and refuse to take advance orders until they can ship the device! And will ship worldwide. And hope to do a buy-one-give-one program (which I suppose is rather like the original One Laptop Per Child OLPC project to donate a unit to impoverished children). If interested, go to www.raspberrypi.org and on the home page subscribe to their mailing list. And if they contact you remember to mention the QL of course!!! There's a picture of a prototype unit running Ubuntu linux 9.04 at http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=11 the only thing is that as the RPi is so small, it's dwarfed by the keyboard, usb hub, even the mouse and all the cables. Hmm, back to the mess of cables hanging off my 1980s QL again :-( On the forum, they mention portable applications like the possibilities of hanging one off the back of a camera with a small wifi dongle, result a wireless camera, for example. Take this a step further and you could tape a RPi and small usb hub to the back of a monitor or in a keyboard to reduce messy cabling. Going on the assumption that it is a $20 / £15 device, what else is needed to turn it into a usable computer. Off the top of my head I'd list: - Monitor - Mouse (USB?) - Keyboard (USB?) - As it only has 128MB or 256MB RAM, some external hard disk or flash memory (USB) - wifi or network lead (via USB?) - printer (via USB?) - great big massive USB hub for all the things you need to plug in? - power supply brick to swarf the RaspberryPi (the RPi is said to be about credit card sized, only needs about 1 watt power!) - speakers (and/or headsets if used for voice communication) - camera for video calls. The possibilities seem endless... Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
On 03/08/11 10:42, Dilwyn Jones wrote: If it comes with Linux, one of the Linux QL emulators (uQLx, QLay for Linux) with it... bingo, a £20 QL. They demo it running Ubuntu Linux. I presume it may come with something like that when shipped. If it is at the heart of it a PC, it might not be too long before somebody finds a way to put Windows on it, even though that would mean Windows would be on an unsupported platform and Windows would cost more than the PC it ran on! Doubt it. It's got an ARM processor - I've not (yet) heard of Windows for ARM chips. Alternatively, if the Linux on it was capable of supporting WINE or some such Windows environment, and the processor is up to it, it might open up possibilities for QemuLator, QPC2 and QL2K for example. Assuming it runs a standard ARM based Linux. WINE will be fine. In this case, just think, a £20 system could emulate all our favourite 1980s home computers! Yes, you get to plug it in to the telly again - via an HDMI cable though, none of that UHFstuff here! ;-) Cheers, Norm. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
On 03/08/11 11:04, Bryan Horstmann wrote: I think from the later info this is a $20 computer £15 to us. There is also some info that WINE isn't an emulator but DOSBOX might be useable. WINE should be usable if the Linux onboard is a standard one. Ubuntu is fairly standard - and that's what they are showing it off with. I believe someone from the QL community has already had contact with them about getting SBASIC or similar on. I doubt that this will work. SBASIC is written in 68000 assembler and the ARM chip runs its own assembly language - I doubt that the two are compatible. Unless someone writes a version of SBASIC in C or C++ perhaps (Now that would make Tony Tebby's eyes water!) which would compile (and hopefully run) on the ARM chip. Portable Apps is a way of running prograns without installing on the host machine and slowing the machine down with installed programmes used infrequently. Yes, but for Windows only I'm afraid. Cheers, Norm. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
On 03/08/11 11:59, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Interestingly they proudly proclaim they are adequately funded and refuse to take advance orders until they can ship the device! I believe Eben used to work for Sinclair? Maybe he's remembering those days! ;-) There's a picture of a prototype unit running Ubuntu linux 9.04 at http://www.raspberrypi.org/?page_id=11 the only thing is that as the RPi is so small, it's dwarfed by the keyboard, usb hub, even the mouse and all the cables. Hmm, back to the mess of cables hanging off my 1980s QL again :-( Nostalgia - it's not what it used to be! ;-) Going on the assumption that it is a $20 / £15 device, what else is needed to turn it into a usable computer. Off the top of my head I'd list: - Monitor It comes with an HDMI interface to plug into a TV. - Mouse (USB?) - Keyboard (USB?) Yes, these are expected to be USB, probably on a hub. - As it only has 128MB or 256MB RAM, some external hard disk or flash memory (USB) - wifi or network lead (via USB?) I'm led to believe that the B model has ethernet onboard. There is no Wifi as yet. - camera for video calls. I'm sure there's a photo of a B model with a camera module on board ... The possibilities seem endless... Bingo. This is what will make it a success (I sincerely hope) unless the youth of today are too far down the road of everything on my phone for free to be rescued from never having to do stuff for themselves. (Who's an old git then?) Cheers, Norm. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
Norman Dunbar wrote: The possibilities seem endless... Bingo. This is what will make it a success (I sincerely hope) unless the youth of today are too far down the road of everything on my phone for free to be rescued from never having to do stuff for themselves. I think it's aimed at least in part at the education market. Now, the new Quanta editor works in the education sector...I wonder if he could set his students a project to create a QL out of a RaspberryPi ... (ducks before a Raspberry flies in his direction) (Who's an old git then?) No comment... ;-) -- Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
Doubt it. It's got an ARM processor - I've not (yet) heard of Windows for ARM chips. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKc_XGuvNIk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
Evening, interesting, very interesting. I watched and noted the following: * This is something we are working on. So it is not generally available (yet). * He kept saying Windows client running on ARM (natively) I wonder if that is some sort of Citrix type thing rather than proper windows? So, we better get an ARM version of SuperBasic running on Ubuntu quick!!! Cheers, Norm. Sent from Samsung tablet (which only does top posting :-( ) Jiri Dolezal computer.resea...@centrum.cz wrote: Doubt it. It's got an ARM processor - I've not (yet) heard of Windows for ARM chips. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKc_XGuvNIk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Raspberry Pi the £20 PC
Norman Dunbar wrote: * He kept saying Windows client running on ARM (natively) I wonder if that is some sort of Citrix type thing rather than proper windows? No, it's a proper, native port. Notice how he says that they've re-compiled office for the ARM architecture. Windows NT used to be available for several platforms (x86, MIPS, PPC, IA64), then it was x86 only, now they again did a real ARM port to try to get their share of the netbook/tablet market. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
