Re: Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Lynx is GPL license and you should include the source. Perhaps the answer is to unzip on a linux box, change the directory names to shorter ones and zip it up again. Probably breaks terms of licence in much the same way and certainly fouls up replacement should Jonathan update it. What I've done is to put my cut down package on the page as well as Jonathan's FULL package including sources. Where people can't make head or tail of the original package as I couldn't, they can at least have a cut down get them going version to start with and move on to the full version when they feel ready to tackle it. I don't like breaking licence terms, but I'm very happy to do so on this occasion to sort out this mess (and Jonathan makes some pretty cutting remarks about QL filing systems etc in his own documents) which otherwise renders QLynx virtually unuseable to less experienced/non uQLx users. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
The answer is to create two zip files, one with the runtime version and one with the sources etc - we know the second one will not unzip on the QL properly. Then zip these two zip files together - so there is ONE download. The user can unzip on the PC and then access the runtime zip from within QPC2. Which is a totally absurd thing for 56k modem dial up users anyway as Qlynx is 2.4MB and the runtimes only need a few hundred KB at most. I uploaded both versions to my site plus a link to JRH's site as well, so should be OK. Dilwyn ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Kjartan Geble Olsen writes: Norsk? But I can already hear the whining but I can't adapt my application to use the new traps as then it wouldn't be QDOS compatible anymore, so I probably just don't bother. Not trying to discourage anybody else, of course, it's just my view of things. Is it not time to let 'old' applications die? The qdos filing system is in my opinion the one thing that renders the ql useless, I can live with limited screen resolution and 24Mhz, but not the file system. Agreed! Can't say that I really use the ql anymore, although I just upgraded to the colour version of smsq and bought Qword.. Very interesting! I had an inkling that good, colourful games would revitalise the interest in the QL, which is why I set out to produce a couple myself. (Sadly, I havent got round to finishing mine yet, due to design-creep and some very colourful bugs. But theyll arrive eventually, inshallah) Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
- Original Message - From: P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 2:11 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282 Dilwyn Jones writes: I honestly don't believe this is useable on QPC2. Poor old Dilwyn. My commiserations (in advance) for 2005. I agree with you that for us poor QLers Lynx is a malevolent and misogynistic piece of software. I also agree with Marcel (as he says further down the line) that it is better than no software - but only just: If your serotonin levels are high Lynx (and other *X-derived software) is fine. If normal to low, no software is probably better. There is nothing to stop an enterprising QLer modifying the source so it is more QL specific and starting another fork of Lynx. As it is GPL you would have to include the source but that is no problem. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
P Witte wrote: Marcel: Presumably, there is no 36 character limit on www paths under the TCP etc devices? Right, this is a character device. So couldnt the DOS device (easily) be made to work the same under TCP? Eg: No, DOS is a directory device. Marcel The whole situation regarding name lengths is difficult. Going back to the qlynx.zip, presumably Jonathan zipped it with a non-QDOS ZIP or the uQLx file system allowed QDOS zip to put these long path names in. When it comes to URLs, I have yet to run into name length problems, so I don't know what the physical limits will be, whether Marcel's TCP/IP system allows access to long names (presumably it does as it passes it all to the underlying Windows system), but when it's programmable by us mere mortals, will we be limited by OPEN#3,TCP_(very long URL name) or whatever the syntax will be - i.e. will any QL name length restrictions apply? I always thought that a non-directory device was not subject to the same name length limitation as a filename, or is any name qualifier on a non-directory device subject to same limitations as a filename? Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Marcel Kilgus writes: Marcel: Presumably, there is no 36 character limit on www paths under the TCP etc devices? Right, this is a character device. So couldnt the DOS device (easily) be made to work the same under TCP? Eg: No, DOS is a directory device. I knew this was rubbish as I wrote it, but I was too tired to reformulate. Sorry. What I meant to ax was would it be difficult to make a 'hole' through QPC to the Windoze file system via the TCP driver, so that when the driver encounters a /dos/pathname/filename it wouldnt feel obliged to restrict itself to the QL file name conventions? Having thought more carefully through the matter, I realise that there doesnt seem to be much point in doing this, as all it would achieve would be to allow us to browse our PC in Lynx. Cant remember how this was done in uQLx. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Dilwyn writes: OPEN#3,TCP_(very long URL name) or whatever the syntax will be - i.e. will any QL name length restrictions apply? I always thought that a non-directory device was not subject to the same name length limitation as a filename, or is any name qualifier on a non-directory device subject to same limitations as a filename? As far as the QL-side of things is concerned, non-directory devices should be able to cope with strings up to approx 32k characters, possibly even as a device name, although convention dictates that the device name itself should be short. (I think HISTORY is the longest current device name). The rest of the string would be seen as a parameter by the driver to be interpreted any which way the driver author likes - so there should not be any problems there for a while yet ;) Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
P Witte wrote: What I meant to ax was would it be difficult to make a 'hole' through QPC to the Windoze file system via the TCP driver, so that when the driver encounters a /dos/pathname/filename it wouldnt feel obliged to restrict itself to the QL file name conventions? Could be done, but for what? You couldn't even do a DIR on the device. Unfortunately directories have to be read raw, meaning that the format is limited to 36 characters. If one were to overcome this, one would probably have to create a few new real directory traps. After those are established and used in all the applications one could then think about extending them to allow more characters. But I can already hear the whining but I can't adapt my application to use the new traps as then it wouldn't be QDOS compatible anymore, so I probably just don't bother. Not trying to discourage anybody else, of course, it's just my view of things. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
- Original Message - From: Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282 Rich Mellor wrote: Do you want to put together a new zip which we can extract on the QL please Dilwyn... snip Next step is to assemble a Tim-Swenson style ready to go package, which I know will not meet with JRH's approval - I seem to remember a snooty email from JRH when Tim originally put it together. His package includes sources and all sorts of bits and pieces you don't need as a plain browser user. Lynx is GPL license and you should include the source. Perhaps the answer is to unzip on a linux box, change the directory names to shorter ones and zip it up again. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
jms1 wrote: Lynx is GPL license and you should include the source. No, binary only is fine. A separate ZIP with the sources or a link to the original combined ZIP is good enough (and even that is not strictly necessary). Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 23:24:19 -, jms1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cut Next step is to assemble a Tim-Swenson style ready to go package, which I know will not meet with JRH's approval - I seem to remember a snooty email from JRH when Tim originally put it together. His package includes sources and all sorts of bits and pieces you don't need as a plain browser user. Lynx is GPL license and you should include the source. Perhaps the answer is to unzip on a linux box, change the directory names to shorter ones and zip it up again. The answer is to create two zip files, one with the runtime version and one with the sources etc - we know the second one will not unzip on the QL properly. Then zip these two zip files together - so there is ONE download. The user can unzip on the PC and then access the runtime zip from within QPC2. -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 14:18:40 -, Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I honestly don't believe this is useable on QPC2. It starts off overwriting its own files as you unzip them because the path names are stored too long. Classic example of an author supplying a problem for you to use. All well and good if you are prepared to manually rename the directories, which I am not prepared to do. Seems the minimum files you need aren't affected, so can be gathered into one directory to run it. Hmm - I will have a look at this this afternoon - though I cannot try it as I do not have a beta QPC2.. I've put the files into a directory, pointed PROG_USE and DATA_USE at them, set environment variables as per the examples of Duncan Neithercut and so on (the JRH text files are totally unixy and meaningless so I refuse to read them as even readme_qdos means little. This is the problem with all the programs ported from Unix - no-one bothers to look at the documentation and see if it would make any sense to QL users. Guess that's why Linux is free but you pay so much to purchase a copy and get support... the line: 157 SETENV www_home=http\homepages.tesco.net/dilwyn.jones/index.html is interesting - you're not telling me Lynx expects a web addres in this format rather than http://homepages.tesco.net/dilwyn.jones/index.html which is the standard convention I connected to my ISP from Windows, then ran the boot program for Lynx and all that happens is a brief flash of a Lynx screen and nothing, disappears without error or anything. Dilwyn - if you get it figured out, then maybe you will be kind enough to sort the files out into a distribution - I think Lynx is under the open source, so we could actually provide this version on disk together with charges for support - how much 50 ??!! Just what is happening? What's being done wrong here? Using Lynx 282, latest on JRH's website. The lynx_cfg and lynxrc files are meaningless garbage to me, so I haven't touched those. Running in 640x480 QL colours mode 4 with the QPC2 v3.30 beta 3 hotfix. Hmm seeing as Dilwyn has mentioned running Lynx from within QPC2 - does Marcel want to actually let us poor mortals who do not have the beta version what v3.30 is going to contain - I guess the ability to access the internet :-) -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I honestly don't believe this is useable on QPC2. Clip Just what is happening? What's being done wrong here? Using Lynx 282, latest on JRH's website. The lynx_cfg and lynxrc files are meaningless garbage to me, so I haven't touched those. Running in 640x480 QL colours mode 4 with the QPC2 v3.30 beta 3 hotfix. Is this a new version ? I have lynx set up under QPC some time ago, yet only used it for 'offline' reading of html pages. Which it succeeds with as text based only. It did take some time to set up, as it a 'unix' mind set. I will look at the boot file and see how it compares to your example. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes I honestly don't believe this is useable on QPC2. clip Just what is happening? What's being done wrong here? Using Lynx 282, latest on JRH's website. The lynx_cfg and lynxrc files are meaningless garbage to me, so I haven't touched those. Running in 640x480 QL colours mode 4 with the QPC2 v3.30 beta 3 hotfix. OK ... just had a look at my version of Lynx and it is v2.7.1, so obviously a much earlier version. However, the zip archive was created by Tim Swenson, who did some work on the configuration to make it suitable for qdos users. He mentions the 2 file as being 'lynxrc' and 'lynx_cfg' that require configuration. Although he indicates in his 'readme' file that this may not be an easy option to undertake. Probably worth an email to Tim to see if he has used the v.2.8.2. Anyway here is my boot, as you can see a lot simpler that the one you have : 100 REMark Set up boot for Lynx 110 REMark ** This section sets up the environment variables required ** 120 : 140 LRESPR win1_env_bin 150 : 160 SETENV TERM=qdos 170 SETENV TERMINFO=win1_Lynx_terminfo 180 SETENV LYNX_CON=512x256a0x0_6_0_4 190 REMark Now execute 200 EXEC win1_Lynx_lynx;/win1/Lynx/index.html Boot program: 100 REMark ** This section sets up the environment variables required ** 110 : 120 SETENV TERM=qdos 130 SETENV TERMINFO=win1_LYNX282_terminfo_qdos 140 SETENV LYNX_CON=512x256a0x0_6_0_4 150 SETENV LYNX_CFG=win1_LYNX282_lynx_cfg 155 REMark SETENV lynx_font=win1_lynx282_pcql_font 157 SETENV www_home=http\homepages.tesco.net/dilwyn.jones/index.html 160 REMark ** This section runs lynx interactively; note the file name format ** 170 EX lynx;'name'name is the page I want 180 STOP 190 : 200 REMark ** This section will dump the HTML file to a text file ** 210 : 220 EX lynx;'-dump /win1/Comms/WebPage/index.html ram2_dump_txt' 230 STOP Line 170 expects a parameter and I've tried conventional and the examples in the manual syntax for the start page. In your line 157 you have 'www_home' - is that a directory on your hard drive ( win1_ ) ? Compare your lines 170 and 220 with mine. Obviously the syntax is to have the QDOS bit as normal QL syntax : EX win1_Lynx_lynx You don't have a 'device' or sub-directory set in your 170 and 220. The next part is the 'unix' syntax, that is everything after the semi-colon has to be inside quotes for QDOS yet use the 'forward slashes' of unix paths to get to where you wish to look. Try to get it to load an html page 'offline' first. For you this could be something like : EX win1_lynx;/win1/homepages/index.html -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
I honestly don't believe this is useable on QPC2. Well, works here. ...without help to get over needless problems which should never have occurred int he first place. Thank you Marcel. Yet again. It now works. 130 SETENV TERMINFO=win1_LYNX282_terminfo_qdos That should be SETENV TERMINFO=win1_LYNX282_terminfo Ah! So you don't use the real full filename of the file, you refer to terminfo_qdos as terminfo? So the filename must be made up of the joined together TERMINFO and TERM strings. Jonathan's manuals are awful for those of us with no knowledge of Unix/Linux. In fact I'd go as far as to say they'll put anyone off. And as for supplying a zip file which won't unzip without manual renaming of many files (which is what the path name lengths issue amounts to) well need I say more. It works now and just goes to show how lucky we are on this list to have our collective selves to help each other, especially people like Marcel. And while I'm in a foul mood over another non-QL issue, will anyone having successfully installed a Tevion MD Slimline MD 42361 USB digital camera please contact me off list - it was bought by my father for my son from Aldi and the company which produce it (Medion) take 15-30 minutes to answer helplines, never answer emails and won't help anyway as I'm not the purchaser. I've given up hope of getting help from retailer, supplier or manufacturer after spending (well, wasting) most of this weekend on the problem, which is that it needs to install 2 drivers in Windows, it finds the first with no problem and fails to find the second despite forcing Windows to look at each folder on the CD, leaving the PCs with a half installed mess which can't be safely removed (I don't know what's temporary installation files and what isn't). It should work on anything from Win98 onward - in fact the manual seems to refer to something from another planet as none of the Win 98 or XP screens resembles what the manuals tell you to expect. I'm under pressure from my family to solve this as the computer expert (that's a laugh!) in the family, mum and dad seem to think my son is getting neglected as it's stil not working so long after Christmas, but it looks as though it may have to go back to dad to get a refund as it doesn't work like it claims, and I spent 15 minutes on their helpline only to be told I couldn't be helped as I wasn't the purchaser even though the purchaser isn't the owner and neither of those has the knowledge to talk to a helpline about it. Sorry to bring this up on the list, I'm so used to these companies being so useless and this list so helpful that I resort to this list for non-QL issues generally because you guys are more help than the professionals. Why oh why do these companies come up with good basic products and let themselves down with crap software, crappier instructions, and even crappier service??? (sounds like the firms I've worked for most of my life in fact). Which just reinforces my belief that we are so lucky to have this list. We help each other so much, we argue and still remain friends. Without my experiences on this list and the QL generally I'd have probably given up on computers years ago. How any other industryu could hope to survive by producing such problematic products which NEVER work first time I'll never know. That said, my wife bought a 3 year old BMW-Rover 25 before christmas. She's owned it for a month now, but has only had about 3 days' use out of it for all sorts of problems. Was I surprised to hear it needs a qualified computer diagnostics mechanic just to find the problem let alone fix it? The company which sold her the car gave her a loan car to use in the meantime, which had no tax disk on it so was not legal to use, so tempers got frayed. She faces a one hour drive to work every day so she can't be without a car (round here she's lucky to have work at all let alone close to home and public transport is either non-existent or nobody in their right mind would use it) and they can't even give her an approximate date when she'll get her car back. Meantime, she's started repaying the finance having had virtually no use of the car. SO the story goes on. So typical of daily life around here. Don't anyone DARE suggest me a happy new year. -- Dilwyn Jones -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP And while I'm in a foul mood over another non-QL issue, will anyone having successfully installed a Tevion MD Slimline MD 42361 USB digital camera please contact me off list - it was bought by my father for my son from Aldi and the company which produce it (Medion) take 15-30 minutes to answer helplines, never answer emails and won't help anyway as I'm not the purchaser. Medion is another of those makes so beloved of PC World (spit!) and they are hand in hand with Packard Bell for a. making crap b. not caring when a customer notices its crap c. not listening to anything you say or write because anyone who buys anything at PC World (spit) can't know anything anyway so is not worth listening to. Is this a web cam? -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rich Mellor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP Hmm seeing as Dilwyn has mentioned running Lynx from within QPC2 - does Marcel want to actually let us poor mortals who do not have the beta version what v3.30 is going to contain - I guess the ability to access the internet :-) It is coming. Be glad he does extensive beta testing so it is us and not the users who find most of the bugs. I think the one I have here is probable release candidate - but then I have not made any of the other three betas fall over. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
This is the problem with all the programs ported from Unix - no-one bothers to look at the documentation and see if it would make any sense to QL users. Guess that's why Linux is free but you pay so much to purchase a copy and get support... Linux ports to QL systems will be a waste of time until either we all learn Linux or authors learn to make documentation make sense. the line: 157 SETENV www_home=http\homepages.tesco.net/dilwyn.jones/index.html is interesting - you're not telling me Lynx expects a web addres in this format rather than http://homepages.tesco.net/dilwyn.jones/index.html which is the standard convention Well, that's the correct way to set up the home page according to Lynx!!! Local files (i.e. files on your computer) are worse, to set the above for a local file such as WIN1_TEST_FILE_HTML you'd need to unix-ify it a bit: /WIN1/test/file.html Not very QDOS-friendly! The actual page displayed is passed as a parameter to the EX command. And the web address is as you'd expect it to be. I have yet to get the help files working, as it gives a badly formed address error. So once I'm in Lynx all I can do is up or down a page, follow a link or quit. The reason is simple. Path lengths. Use the defaults of program in win1_Lynx_ or win1_Lynx282_ and the help file path names are too long, the range from 37 to 45 characters in length. So you need to accept renames and overwriting and loss of a few files when unzipping inthe first place, then do some manual renaming and editing of the help files before you can access help files. A bit pathetic really. I connected to my ISP from Windows, then ran the boot program for Lynx and all that happens is a brief flash of a Lynx screen and nothing, disappears without error or anything. Dilwyn - if you get it figured out, then maybe you will be kind enough to sort the files out into a distribution - I think Lynx is under the open source, so we could actually provide this version on disk together with charges for support - how much 50 ??!! Exactly. Time Swenson's distro of Lynx ALMOST works. The boot I sent to the list works if you put in Marcel's correction and sort out the configuration files to get help etc working. At the moment, attempts to access help give me a 'Badly Formed Address' error due to the path name lengths described above. Presumably, as JRH is a uQLx user, uQLx allows longer filenames than QDOS or SMSQ/E does? Hmm seeing as Dilwyn has mentioned running Lynx from within QPC2 - does Marcel want to actually let us poor mortals who do not have the beta version what v3.30 is going to contain - I guess the ability to access the internet :-) I forgot it wasn't public knowledge yet. QPC2 v3.30 will have access to Windows TCP/IP much like how uQLx allows access to TCP/IP of the underlying Linux. It's not a general TCP/IP system like soql because it uses Windows. So don't expect it to be ported to other QDOS/SMSQ E systems. The QPC2 is with Beta testers now and should be on general release soon when Marcel is happy with it - he's gone through 3 or 4 test versions - you know he won't release it until he's happy, fair play! I do hope someone will have the courage to write an article on setting up and using Lynx, the email apps from JRH and the FTP application otherwise we might find ourselves with only enough users to count on the fingers of one hand if my experience is anything to go by. Nothing wrong with Marcel's work, it's pretty transparent, it's the unix-ness of the application software which will flumox most users I guess. Marcel's work is pretty useless without software people can actually use! If I suss out enough I might put a skeleton article on getting it going here and leave others who understand it better to flesh it out a bit and take it further. -- Dilwyn Jones -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
On 9 Jan 2005 at 18:02, Roy wood wrote: It is coming. Be glad he does extensive beta testing so it is us and not the users who find most of the bugs. I think the one I have here is probable release candidate - but then I have not made any of the other three betas fall over. Neither have I. Qpc has a history of being debugged pretty well, and thus work well in the release versions. Wolfgang www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
On 9 Jan 2005 at 17:34, Dilwyn Jones wrote: (...) I forgot it wasn't public knowledge yet. QPC2 v3.30 will have access to Windows TCP/IP much like how uQLx allows access to TCP/IP of the underlying Linux. It's not a general TCP/IP system like soql because it uses Windows. So don't expect it to be ported to other QDOS/SMSQ E systems. The QPC2 is with Beta testers now and should be on general release soon when Marcel is happy with it - he's gone through 3 or 4 test versions - you know he won't release it until he's happy, fair play! I do hope someone will have the courage to write an article on setting up and using Lynx, the email apps from JRH and the FTP application otherwise we might find ourselves with only enough users to count on the fingers of one hand if my experience is anything to go by. Nothing wrong with Marcel's work, it's pretty transparent, it's the unix-ness of the application software which will flumox most users I guess. Marcel's work is pretty useless without software people can actually use! So what we need is some clear explanation of how to access the TCP/IP stuff from Sbasic or assembler. How do you open a socket and/or a port and make bytes go through it. Imagine an sbasic mail client. (Slavering at the mouth) Wolfgang www.scp-paulet-lenerz.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 17:34:13 -, Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the problem with all the programs ported from Unix - no-one bothers to look at the documentation and see if it would make any sense to QL users. Guess that's why Linux is free but you pay so much to purchase a copy and get support... Linux ports to QL systems will be a waste of time until either we all learn Linux or authors learn to make documentation make sense. the line: 157 SETENV www_home=http\homepages.tesco.net/dilwyn.jones/index.html is interesting - you're not telling me Lynx expects a web addres in this format rather than http://homepages.tesco.net/dilwyn.jones/index.html which is the standard convention Well, that's the correct way to set up the home page according to Lynx!!! Local files (i.e. files on your computer) are worse, to set the above for a local file such as WIN1_TEST_FILE_HTML you'd need to unix-ify it a bit: /WIN1/test/file.html Not very QDOS-friendly! No its not - but then it is free so the author is not going to offer support That's why we should offer it on a disk or whatever and charge for the support side - that seems to be the accepted norm for this sort of software. The actual page displayed is passed as a parameter to the EX command. And the web address is as you'd expect it to be. I have yet to get the help files working, as it gives a badly formed address error. So once I'm in Lynx all I can do is up or down a page, follow a link or quit. The reason is simple. Path lengths. Use the defaults of program in win1_Lynx_ or win1_Lynx282_ and the help file path names are too long, the range from 37 to 45 characters in length. So you need to accept renames and overwriting and loss of a few files when unzipping inthe first place, then do some manual renaming and editing of the help files before you can access help files. A bit pathetic really. Even if you use just win1_ as the extract path you get lots of filename length problems The best idea would be to split the distribution into a runtime version which can be unzipped on a QL and the sources and other stuff that is not necessary, but could be read on a PC or Unix box. Not looked at the licence, but it should allow this, so long as the sources are still seen to be distributed with the program. cut Exactly. Time Swenson's distro of Lynx ALMOST works. The boot I sent to the list works if you put in Marcel's correction and sort out the configuration files to get help etc working. At the moment, attempts to access help give me a 'Badly Formed Address' error due to the path name lengths described above. Presumably, as JRH is a uQLx user, uQLx allows longer filenames than QDOS or SMSQ/E does? Should be able to work out how to get the help into a format which can fit within a QL directory structure. I will look at this... -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services 26 Oak Road, Shelfield, Walsall, West Midlands WS4 1RQ http://www.rwapservices.co.uk/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Dilwyn Jones wrote: Ah! So you don't use the real full filename of the file, you refer to terminfo_qdos as terminfo? So the filename must be made up of the joined together TERMINFO and TERM strings. Yes, that's the idea. You tell it where all the TERMINFOs are stored and which one of those you want. Jonathan's manuals are awful for those of us with no knowledge of Unix/Linux. In fact I'd go as far as to say they'll put anyone off. And as for supplying a zip file which won't unzip without manual renaming of many files (which is what the path name lengths issue amounts to) well need I say more. Let's just say I prefer his sometimes difficult to set up software to no software at all. His dropping out is a huge loss for the QL world. I'd like to see much more Linux software for the QL, but alas, nobody else seems to have the knowledge or time to do it. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 at 16:38:37, Dilwyn Jones wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) snip It works now and just goes to show how lucky we are on this list to have our collective selves to help each other, especially people like That said, my wife bought a 3 year old BMW-Rover 25 before christmas. She's owned it for a month now, but has only had about 3 days' use out of it for all sorts of problems. Was I surprised to hear it needs a qualified computer diagnostics mechanic just to find the problem let alone fix it? Gives a new meaning to a car crash (8-)# I serviced Sarah's Golf the other day. Absolutely brilliant oil filter, with a hex nut welded on the end. The spark plugs are equally good, with -three- sparks and a 48000 mile life! I was looking forward to using the LED diagnosis panel. The equivalent on my Volvo gives a brilliant read out and also physically tests items like injectors, cold start and so on. See page 39 says Haynes. Page 39 says This can only be connected to specialist equipment - take it to your Volkswagen dealer Hrmmm This is a little like the case of a QL saying No user serviceable parts inside - now that was brilliantly back ONT (8-)# The company which sold her the car gave her a loan car to use in the meantime, which had no tax disk on it so was not legal to use, so tempers got frayed. She faces a one hour drive to work every day so she can't be without a car (round here she's lucky to have work at all let alone close to home and public transport is either non-existent or nobody in their right mind would use it) and they can't even give her an approximate date when she'll get her car back. Meantime, she's started repaying the finance having had virtually no use of the car. SO the story goes on. So typical of daily life around here. Don't anyone DARE suggest me a happy new year. ... well how about 2006 (8-)# Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://www.firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
RE: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Hi, Dilwyn wrote: Linux ports to QL systems will be a waste of time until either we all learn Linux or authors learn to make documentation make sense. Marcel has already explained about the terminfo, I didn't as its some time (years) since I set Lynx up and had forgotten I havent looked at email for a few days, as to documentation it's unfair to expect authors of computer software to also have report writing skills isn't it - its a really different skill :-) - same with occurs software for amigas, spectrums and PCs and QLs (even Marcel can be quite cryptic). In the PC world you can expect brand new hardware to come with non functioning software no manual unless you care to download som bland pdf files. I bought a new graphics card for my game playing son for Christmas - recommended in a PC magazine from one of the 2 big names in PC games graphics cards. The CDROM with the card would not install the drivers - demanded that basic drivers be installed first - spent an evening fighting with it then manually installed and next day found the latest edition of the drivers on a magazine cover disk which installed all software perfectly - what would happen to those punters who had not bought that magazine or could not force a manual install. Back to Lynx - the 2 config files need to be modified as well to set the home page - if not they can over ride the environment variables - lynxrc lynx_cfg., found that out when changing my home page for lynx. Finally I agree lynx is not the easiest browser to use ie cool linux non intuitive command line attitude, so when QPC2 3.30 is released we need a decent browser not lynx what is the state of play with Hyperbrowser from Tarquin Mills? Haven't managed to break QPC 3.30beta yet either. Duncan Neithercut -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dilwyn Jones Sent: 09 January 2005 17:34 -- Dilwyn Jones QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Under uQLx the apps have comlete unfettered access to the native unix file system. Therefore AFAIK none of the file name/path issues affecting Dilwyn would have hit users of Lynx under uQLx. ( I haven't tried it myself). So, the port of any unix programme onto uQLx can, and often does, make use of files in the native file system. This simplifies the task and sidesteps the issue of naming conventions for the limited directory/filename structure under QDOS etc. This does mean that the port is not complete if anyone wants to use the program on any other emulator, or native QL hardware, and its unreasonable to expect otherwise. I think it's a bit unfair to blame the unix community for the difficulties that Dilwyn encountered. Why not blame Marcel for not incorporating a unix ext2 file system within QPC2? ;-) Seriously though; this highlights the need to automatically unix/dos file names to/from those acceptable to QDOS/SMSQE aka the dos long to short filename mapping. That would enable all filenames to be modified automatically instead of the painful exercise that Dilwyn has, and which will require repeating on almost all of the GNU software out there before it can be used under QDOS. Jeremy Dilwyn Jones wrote: This is the problem with all the programs ported from Unix - no-one bothers to look at the documentation and see if it would make any sense to QL users. Guess that's why Linux is free but you pay so much to purchase a copy and get support... Linux ports to QL systems will be a waste of time until either we all learn Linux or authors learn to make documentation make sense. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 6/1/05 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Medion is another of those makes so beloved of PC World (spit!) and they are hand in hand with Packard Bell for a. making crap b. not caring when a customer notices its crap c. not listening to anything you say or write because anyone who buys anything at PC World (spit) can't know anything anyway so is not worth listening to. Is this a web cam? -- Roy Wood No, a digital camera (photo camera), but there is an application on the CD to allow it to be used as a live movie camera so it could probably be used as a webcam. It's a pity the software and instructions are such crap because the camera itself is so easy to use to take good photos, has a good choice of settings and is so compact. Nice hardware let down by appalling software and instructions and even worse customer service. Your comments sum up how I feel though. Buying anything around here is so hit and miss. We pay higher prices even though average wages are one of the lowest in the UK. We seem to have employees who know nothing and care even less. I always seem to end up feeling that the nice knowledgeable (sorry about the spelling it has more than 2 syllables) people here have all left and forgot to switch off the lights when they did. -- Dilwyn Jones -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Hmm seeing as Dilwyn has mentioned running Lynx from within QPC2 - does Marcel want to actually let us poor mortals who do not have the beta version what v3.30 is going to contain - I guess the ability to access the internet :-) It is coming. Be glad he does extensive beta testing so it is us and not the users who find most of the bugs. I think the one I have here is probable release candidate - but then I have not made any of the other three betas fall over. -- Roy Wood They were pretty robust, but Marcel is a perfectionist who will improve a program if it can be improved. Thank goodness. -- Dilwyn Jones -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Rich Mellor wrote: Do you want to put together a new zip which we can extract on the QL please Dilwyn... And maybe your sample boot file Well, I've made some progress. Lynx starts. Lynx browses websites. I can now display 'help' after fixing path and file names (the only way to get it to work was to put Lynx in a one character directory name win1_l_ and the help files also into a 1 character directory win1_l_h_ because it needs a subdirectory called keystrokes win1_l_h_keystrokes_ so that files like win1_l_h_keystrokes_scrolling_help_html can be accessed without altering the html itself. Basically, nothing works 'as supplied' and I've forgotten all the changes I made so I can't list them here. Best course of action is probably make a list of the various directories and filenames and let people figure it out. I had ot make a couple oif changes to Lynx_cfg to find the newly renamed and placed help files, don't think I had to change lynxrc though. When browsing sites, you seem to get stray characters all over the Lynx display which makes it hard to read the text. I haven't yet figured out how to fork to UNGIF to display pictures. It will save zip files downloaded, seems to place them in either PROG_USE or more likely DATA_USE directory, haven't figured out which yet. As Lynx itself and its files are in win1_l_ some are accessed via prog_use, some by data_use so I haven't figured out what ends up where yet other than the fact that the programs Lynx, Fork, Cp and Mv have to be in the prog_use default, other examples given in readme_qdos in data_use. Not quite sure what Fork, Cp and Mv do yet, probably Linux-style programs to do certain specific actions. I also haven't quite figured out when I can use Windows-style URLs, when I can use QDOS-style filenames and when I need to use Linux-style filenames, which makes it all a bit confusing. Yuk, too much for me at the moment, brain about to explode for tonight so giving up now for tonight. So far, all I've proved is (1) it can be made to work although it doesn't work out of the box (2) even unzipping QDOS Lynx is disaster prone because of the filename lengths which CAN'T work as JRH supplies it (3) I can download zipped files from my websites even if I'm not sure where they'll end up. (4) cluttered screens (sporadic random text on screen) and '2' symbols by links, hard to get help files working, and a lot of the 'help' is meaningless or hard to follow to non-Unix/Linux people. (5) you are unlikely to get it fully working as it stands without help or a long time crawling through endless files which mean nothing to non-Linux speaking users. (6) the package is an uncomfortable marriage of QDOS and Linux - it's easy to tell JRH dislikes many aspects of QDOS such as the file system. (7) navigation not obvious, but easy enough if you follow the commands list in help (basically left and right to forward and back through links, up and down to go from link to link on same page) (8) haven't figured printing out yet, seems to print to the screen at the moment and nowhere else. Next step is to assemble a Tim-Swenson style ready to go package, which I know will not meet with JRH's approval - I seem to remember a snooty email from JRH when Tim originally put it together. His package includes sources and all sorts of bits and pieces you don't need as a plain browser user. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes clip Well, that's the correct way to set up the home page according to Lynx!!! Local files (i.e. files on your computer) are worse, to set the above for a local file such as WIN1_TEST_FILE_HTML you'd need to unix-ify it a bit: /WIN1/test/file.html Not very QDOS-friendly! I haven't used unix coventions much, yet many are adopted on the www, so all the separators are forward slashes. So you could say that /WIN1/test/file.html is no real hassle as we have all become accustomed to this format for web addresses. A forward slash does have the advantage of not needing to be a 'shifted' key combination, with is the bugbear of '_' the underscore character. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Under uQLx the apps have comlete unfettered access to the native unix file system. Therefore AFAIK none of the file name/path issues affecting Dilwyn would have hit users of Lynx under uQLx. ( I haven't tried it myself). So, the port of any unix programme onto uQLx can, and often does, make use of files in the native file system. This simplifies the task and sidesteps the issue of naming conventions for the limited directory/filename structure under QDOS etc. This does mean that the port is not complete if anyone wants to use the program on any other emulator, or native QL hardware, and its unreasonable to expect otherwise. I think it's a bit unfair to blame the unix community for the difficulties that Dilwyn encountered. Why not blame Marcel for not incorporating a unix ext2 file system within QPC2? ;-) Well, that explains how the qlynx_zip might be useable at all. It certainly can't be unzipped without error on a native QDOS/SMSQ filing system. It might be possible to unzip it on say Windows, copy to QL with a bit of renaming and altering of path lengths and restoration of job headers, adust the configuration for shorter paths and so on. As it is, I certainly don't think Jonathan could have seriously expected it to be used unaltered on a native QDOS filing system. Seriously though; this highlights the need to automatically unix/dos file names to/from those acceptable to QDOS/SMSQE aka the dos long to short filename mapping. That would enable all filenames to be modified automatically instead of the painful exercise that Dilwyn has, and which will require repeating on almost all of the GNU software out there before it can be used under QDOS. Painful to even think about this! In one sense we'd be better off writing our own, but a browser is no mean job. Hyperbrowser could perhaps be updated a little (Tarquin?) to provide a limited text browsing facility, email apps might be easier. Still, we have to start somewhere. I certainly didn't mean to belittle Marcel's efforts. Let's just hope things develop and mature as time goes by. -- Dilwyn Jones -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 06/01/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Dilwyn Jones writes: I honestly don't believe this is useable on QPC2. Poor old Dilwyn. My commiserations (in advance) for 2005. I agree with you that for us poor QLers Lynx is a malevolent and misogynistic piece of software. I also agree with Marcel (as he says further down the line) that it is better than no software - but only just: If your serotonin levels are high Lynx (and other *X-derived software) is fine. If normal to low, no software is probably better. It starts off overwriting its own files as you unzip them because the path names are stored too long. Classic example of an author supplying a problem for you to use. All well and good if you are prepared to manually rename the directories, which I am not prepared to do. Seems the minimum files you need aren't affected, so can be gathered into one directory to run it. Marcel: Presumably, there is no 36 character limit on www paths under the TCP etc devices? So couldnt the DOS device (easily) be made to work the same under TCP? Eg: file://localhost/dos2/ql/lynx/help/bla/bla/bla/bla/main.html Thataway the lynx distribution could be stored on the DOS device (except the executables) and run from there without major alterations to the distribution. Just a late night thought. With a TCP-enabled QPC many ordinary QLers (does this species exist?) may wish to try out Lynx. Perhaps some *X speaker would like produce a simplified binary distribution with all non-essential and barbarian junk excised? A pretty Qdos help file would be useful too. Of course, Lynx will only be a stopgap until native applications flood the scene ;) Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
P Witte wrote: Marcel: Presumably, there is no 36 character limit on www paths under the TCP etc devices? Right, this is a character device. So couldnt the DOS device (easily) be made to work the same under TCP? Eg: No, DOS is a directory device. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Lynx 282
Dilwyn Jones wrote: I honestly don't believe this is useable on QPC2. Well, works here. I connected to my ISP from Windows, then ran the boot program for Lynx and all that happens is a brief flash of a Lynx screen and nothing, disappears without error or anything. Try ex lynx;'http://www.google.com' 130 SETENV TERMINFO=win1_LYNX282_terminfo_qdos That should be SETENV TERMINFO=win1_LYNX282_terminfo Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
