RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: EF Johnson CR1010 Crystal Replacement
John, I stand corrected. I know that EFJ produced some oddball radios, but until now I have never heard of a crystal holder or channel element that could not be recrystalled by ICM. Live and learn! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John D. Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 5:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: EF Johnson CR1010 Crystal Replacement Eric, I tried that today and they positively will not work on the new type of crystal holders due to the way they are made since they cannot reliably make them work. They said they have done them in the past and lost money, wasted time, and angered customers in the process. John --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, I suggest that you send the holders, with the old crystals, to International Crystal or to any competent crystal house. Simply instruct ICM to change the TX and RX from the existing frequencies to the desired new frequencies. It'll cost you about $100 for the pair, but you'll wind up with crystals that are guaranteed to work on the new channels. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of John D. Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 5:28 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] EF Johnson CR1010 Crystal Replacement I have a CR1010 repeater that needs to have new crystals installed to change the frequency from 451.200 to 451.250 on the TX and 456.200 to 456.250 on the Rx. I tried to get crystals from EF Johnson and they said they no longer support this repeater. I then tried to get crystals from International Crystal and they said there were two types of holders new and old. They said that if I had the new type I would be unable to get crystals for them or they would never work. It just so happens this repeater has the new crystals so does anybody know where I can get a set of old crystal holders so I can change the freq. on this repeater? Also does anybody have any other good ideas on how I can proceed with this unit. Thanks
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Desense Problem on 222 MHz Repeater
I think you may have overlooked the fact that desense was observed even when a dummy load was connected directly to the output of the duplexer. That pretty much eliminates anything external to the repeater itself, doesn't it? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nj902 Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 8:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Desense Problem on 222 MHz Repeater This question has initiated an interesting exchange of ideas. Many good suggestions have been provided. The fact that the desensitization exists when operating duplex on either of two antennas, or when using split antennas, combined with the results of the other tests [minimal desensitization on a dummy load, measured duplexer isolation, etc.] suggests that the initial concern may be true - that the issue is related to an external mix between the repeater transmitter and the DTV signal. Issues related to IM between narrow band and wide band systems will be a growing concern as more services convert to digital formats. There is not a great deal of published guidance regarding the identification and resolution of such issues. The use of a spectrum analyzer at the receiver port of the duplexer is a good place to continue the investigation. The problem with this test is that the mix between the repeater transmitter and the DTV will produce a wide band product. Wide band digital transmissions are noise like in character and must be observed using techniques that one uses to analyze noise. [see Agilent AN150, AN150-4, AN150-7, and AN1303] You did not indicate the instrument used to make the tests or the instrument settings and configuration. The issue is that a spectrum analyzer may not be able to see the problem. The noise figure of the spectrum analyzer could be on the order of 30 dB or more. On the other hand, the repeater receiver's noise figure will be less than 10 dB. The noise figure of your analyzer can be easily determined. Modern analyzers have a noise marker function. If you activate this function with the analyzer's input terminated with a 50 ohm load, you will get a result based on the analyzer's internal noise. The readout will be in the form of dBm per Hz. This metric is used because it is independent of bandwidth. Regardless of the currently selected analyzer RBW, the analyzer's processor will compute the noise marker to yield the same result. The difference between this number and the thermal noise floor [kTB] of -174 dBm/Hz is the analyzer's noise figure. Based on the receiver's sensitivity [and hence its noise figure], it will have an inferred noise floor. Noise which enters the receiver through the antenna port will add to this noise floor resulting in degradation of your effective receiver sensitivity. This external noise will be comprised of site noise, sideband noise from your own transmitter and any IM between your transmitter and the DTV signal. This new noise level can be determined based on the amount of desensitization you have measured. Based on your measurements, the new noise level will still be perhaps 10 dB below the ability of the spectrum analyzer to observe due to its much higher noise figure. The ability of the spectrum analyzer to see noise can be enhanced through the use of a high gain low noise amplifier such as the Agilent 11909A. The LNA and the spectrum analyzer combine to comprise a receiving system with a much lower noise figure than the analyzer alone - lower even than your repeater receiver. This will allow you to see the noise that is causing the issue. [Unfortunately - you still have to figure out where the noise originates] Some analyzers have a built in preamp. Generally these are optimized for display flatness and have a lower gain than an external amplifier. The use of an internal amplifier will improve the analyzer's noise figure but not to the extent that an external high gain amp can. This improvement may be sufficient or not depending on the specific instrument and the noise level you are attempting to measure. The use of the LNA has tradeoffs in the form of reduced dynamic range and reduced IM performance of the analyzer. Additional selectivity may be required ahead of the LNA.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Desense Problem on 222 MHz Repeater
Stu, It looks to me as if you have covered almost all of the bases, and have eliminated every one of the typical causes of desense. However, there is one possibility that has not been mentioned: Leakage inside the Micor radio. Even with a careful duplex conversion, there are several sneak paths for extraneous signals to enter the Micor receiver. One ingress point is the tiny slots around the RCA plug at the input to the helical resonator block. A wrap of metal tape around that plug will seal the plug. Additional bypass capacitors and ferrite beads on DC supply leads may help. Try using a separate DC power supply for the receiver. Moreover, I suspect that the receiver needs more shielding. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stu Benner Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 1:54 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Desense Problem on 222 MHz Repeater Thanks to everyone for the replies so far. Please see comments embedded below. I think that they address most of the comments, questions, and recommendations posed by all to this point. If you suspect IMD between the channel 12 DTV transmitter and your Tx carrier, work on attenuating the DTV signal. Using cavity notch filters to reject the entire 6 MHz of DTV isn't too practical, so instead, try adding pass cavities on your Tx before the duplexer input. That will help determine if the IM is originating in your PA. An isolator *may* help, but with channel 12 being the better part of 20 MHz away (about 10%), it may not afford full protection -- isolators don't have infinite bandwidth. Likewise, finding a 250 watt 220 MHz isolator may not be easy. I think I have some 220 isolators that came off a combiner (Sinclair), but doubt they're good for 250 watts judging by their size. [Stu] Agree, notches don't work well for that plus we don't have handy any cavities that will tune there. Have used up to two BP cavities in the TX path along with a 2-stage isolator. No difference in desense is observed. If you suspect a rusty bolt mix, use an alternate antenna for testing. If nothing else, try a quarter-wave whip (suitable for operation at your 250 watts TPO), even if it's just temporarily mounted on the tower (be sure it's at a sufficient height to prevent desense due to close proximity to the repeater itself). [Stu] We're presently on split antennas. One is at about 80 ft., the other is at about 15 ft. This improves the desense on the order of 6 dB. Another good possibility is IM in your receiver front end (or preamp, if you're using one). Again, pass cavities are your friend here. Attenuate the channel 12 signal as much as possible and see if it makes a difference. Have you looked at what sigs are reaching your receiver input on a spectrum analyzer? With 15 dB of desense, you should be able to see the culprit(s); it's not like they're going to be buried in the noise if it's causing 15 dB of desense. [Stu] The desense is significant with or without a preamp. Worse with but I can't find my notes to quote numbers. Used up to 2 BP cavities on RX with no perceptible difference in desense. Have also installed a DCI 4-pole filter on RX and TX with no effect. Have looked at the receiver input with a spectrum analyzer. The most significant signal is the one FM broadcast transmitter at the site. Running power down on it or turning it off has no effect on the desense. Our TX signal at our RX input is consistent with our measured duplexer isolation (about -88 dBc or -34 dBm). Within several hundred kHz of the RX frequency there are no detectable narrowband signals. Even that 1 dB of desense would give me some agita. I'd verify that the duplexers are properly tuned and the transmitter is clean before even starting down any other paths related to the channel 12 issue. IIRC, the Telewave cavities have adjustable coupling. If necessary, sacrifice a little extra loss for additional rejection if necessary. [Stu] I tuned the duplexer myself with a network analyzer and the transmitter looks clean. I have coupling set where I get about 1 dB through loss and the notches are at about 88 dB on TX and about 90 dB on RX. I also assume you're using all known-good interconnect cables (no foil+braid or other cables not suitable for duplex operation). [Stu] All cables are either Heliax or double braided. Are you using a Polyphaser or other type of surge arrestor? If so, try bypassing it. I've seen gas discharge tube type surge arrestors become noisemakers after absorbing a strike. [Stu] Yes
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Desense Problem on 222 MHz Repeater
Stu, I think 250 watts is far too much power for that duplexer to properly isolate. Try running just your exciter, or try no more than 30 watts or so. My 220 repeater runs just 18 watts, and it is almost perfectly balanced. I am using the same Telewave duplexer, and I have zero desense. According to my CommShop program, you need more than 90 dB of isolation for 250 watts TX and 0.25 uV RX- and that's assuming a tube amplifier. The Telewave TPRD-2254 duplexer is spec'd at 85 dB, so it is borderline, even when perfectly tuned. You might try a sharply-tuned bandpass cavity to clean up the transmitter output, to see if sideband noise is causing the desense. Also, try a bandpass cavity on the RX input. As has been explained many times on this list, a BpBr duplexer has practically no bandpass effect, and what little effect there is, is very broad. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stu Benner Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 9:52 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Desense Problem on 222 MHz Repeater Our group has substantial technical knowledge and experience, but we've been just about beaten down by a problem with our repeater. A brief overview of our situation follows. We have a 222 MHz repeater comprised of a converted Micor mobile, Telewave TPRD-2254 BpBr duplexer, AM-6155 PA modified for class C operation at 250W, and a DB-264JJ antenna at 80 ft. fed by 1/2' Heliax on a commercial FM broadcast tower . With the duplexer terminated into a load, we have about 1 dB degradation in sensitivity when transmitting. However, with the antenna connected to the duplexer, we experience in excess 15 dB of desensitization. We have eliminated other narrowband transmitters and analog TV transmitters as contributing factors. We are left with a channel 12 digital TV transmitter at an adjacent site as a key contributor to the problem. Our hypothesis is that we have broadband IMD products from the mix of our transmitter and the DTV transmitter that are appearing in and near our receiver passband. Is it a rusty bolt problem or is there some other non-linear component somewhere on the site or in our system that is the mixing point - we don't know. I'd be interested in beginning a dialog with anyone who might be able to give us some further insight into this problem. Regards, Stu Benner W3STU Boonsboro, MD
RE: [Repeater-Builder] EF Johnson CR1010 Crystal Replacement
John, I suggest that you send the holders, with the old crystals, to International Crystal or to any competent crystal house. Simply instruct ICM to change the TX and RX from the existing frequencies to the desired new frequencies. It'll cost you about $100 for the pair, but you'll wind up with crystals that are guaranteed to work on the new channels. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John D. Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 5:28 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] EF Johnson CR1010 Crystal Replacement I have a CR1010 repeater that needs to have new crystals installed to change the frequency from 451.200 to 451.250 on the TX and 456.200 to 456.250 on the Rx. I tried to get crystals from EF Johnson and they said they no longer support this repeater. I then tried to get crystals from International Crystal and they said there were two types of holders new and old. They said that if I had the new type I would be unable to get crystals for them or they would never work. It just so happens this repeater has the new crystals so does anybody know where I can get a set of old crystal holders so I can change the freq. on this repeater? Also does anybody have any other good ideas on how I can proceed with this unit. Thanks
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor UHF repeater manual
Matt, You need two manuals to cover your repeater: 6881039E55 for 225/250W, 121 VAC Micor Base and Repeater Stations B84RCB Series 6881025E60 for Micor Control and Applications Both of these manuals are NLA from Motorola Parts, but you may find either or both on the Internet. The CA manual is in the queue for full-page scanning. If any readers have a virgin hard copy of the 39E55 manual, please contact me offlist. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of avelectron1 Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:39 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor UHF repeater manual I'm looking for any manuals pertaining to the Micor UHF repeaters. My specific model # is B84RCB-3106AT. Motorola parts says all manuals are NLA...not sure I believe them but thought I'd see if anyone has any available also. Thanks, Matt/KY5O
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Problem with C16 on RFPA board in VHF HB MVP
Bob, I'd check C15, the 470 pF mica capacitor that's on the same power supply lead. It might be a good idea to replace both of the other caps that parallel C16. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 10:02 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Problem with C16 on RFPA board in VHF HB MVP I've had a 6.8 µF 35 V capacitor burn up on the GE VHF HB MVP. This is a filter cap. for the final PA DC voltage, in parallel with 0.1 µF 150 pF caps. I replaced it just before Dayton noticed that the replacement got rather warm (too hot to touch), so I did a 2 hour burn-in. It survived just fine, so I concluded that the cap. was simply conducting heat up from the PA board. The radio worked fine at Dayton, I've been doing some more testing at home in preparation for an installation in about 3 weeks. This evening after TXing for only ~5 minutes, smoke began to pour out the back of the radio. After carrying it to the garage to open it, I found C16 charred once again. My first suspicion was (very) low frequency oscillation of the RFPA, but if this were the case I think I'd be experiencing desense, RF feedback other oddities during testing. I'll check it on the spectrum analyzer tomorrow (after it's somewhat deodorized), but I doubt it's spurious. Any other ideas as to what would cause this cap. to repeatedly fail? Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola R1225 RSS/CPS
Carl, The current MOL price for the HVN9054E RSS is $295. The CD contains both the 3.2 version for earlier Windows up through 98, and the 4.0 version for XP. If you're not a dealer of Motorola radios, the only way you can get the software legally is to have one or more 1225-series radios in your possession, and apply for a license as a self-servicing end-user. Needless to say, it's more likely that Motorola will grant you a license if you have several radios than if you have only one. After all, you can have a dealer program your R1225 many times before the cost of the RSS is reached. You will be asked for the serial numbers of the radios you intend to program. The reason why Motorola is very protective of the 1225 RSS is because the R1225 full-duplex radio is very much a current product. This is the radio that is inside a GR1225 or RKR1225 repeater. The M1225 and P1225 radios are discontinued. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cort Buffington Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 1:06 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola R1225 RSS/CPS Anybody know about how much the programming software for an R1225 is and if Motorola will sell it to any old guy off the street (like me)? 73 DE N0MJS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] GE Phoenix raw audio out...
Ben, There are many GE Phoenix manuals on the GE LBI Index here: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-master-list.html You should be able to find the answer in one or more of the listed manuals. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of w4wsm Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 3:36 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] GE Phoenix raw audio out... Anyone know where I can find unsquelched audio in a Phoenix? Even squelched but not through the volume control may work too... Thanks, Ben
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 900 MHz PURC5000 help
Mike, By model number, I mean, something like C75JZByy or C85JLByy. PURC5000 is not a model number; it's a generic family brand name. Once the model number is known, the appropriate service documents can be identified. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Pugh Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 7:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 900 MHz PURC5000 help Eric Lemmon wrote: Mike, Let's start with the model number of your PURC station, which is? I wasn't aware of a PURC9000 station. I wasn't aware that I made a typo, it is actually a PURC5000.. My fat fingered boo boo. :-) Mike
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor power supply issue
Eric, Use a known-good digital multimeter to verify that the AC power at the power supply is 120 +/- 6 VAC. It is not uncommon for remote sites to have abnormally low voltages. Some heavily-loaded power supplies will start to collapse at much less than their rated output, if the AC input voltage falls much below 114 VAC. Please advise what model number power supply (TPN) is being used. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kk2ed Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:40 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor power supply issue Let me clarify a little bit I am using the supply to power the Micor repeater as well as a GM300 link transceiver. A few weeks ago I started to notice a slight hum on the link radio's transmitted signal. Now, the hum is so bad, and voltage drop significant, that the GM300's transmit signal is dirty and sounds like a spurious emitter when transmitting. If I disable the main repeater TX (Micor), so as to lessen the load and only have the GM300 transmitting, the hum goes away. Being the GM300 only uses the 13.8v output, I'm guessing the other outputs are ok. I forgot to mention - When I stopped at the site the other day, I heard the transformer buzzing, which increased in loudness when the repeater was keyed (thus placing a heavier load on the transformer). Possible transformer or resonant circuit capacitor failure? I will be stopping at the site in the morning to investigate further and swap it out with a spare. I'll report back with my findings later tomorrow. Thanks Eric KE2D --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Eric Grabowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I don't have experience with that particular power supply, the situation you describe is symptomatic of filter capacitor failure. The capacitor's equivalent series resistance (ESR) becomes so high that it doesn't filter the ac ripple anymore. You should be able to verify this easily by using a scope to observe the ac ripple on the dc output under various load conditions. Eric KH6CQ --- kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good Evening, I have a Micor 75 station power supply that is acting up. When the repeater is idle, the voltage output appears clean. But as the load is increased (ie: power output increased), the voltage sags and I get an annoying hum on the tx (indicative of AC ripple on the dc side?). It started out as a barely noticeable hum; the past few days it has gotten to the point where I just shut down the repeater's tx. I haven't had a chance to get to the site to swap it out with a spare. But I'm curious as to what kind of repair I'm in for, and others' experience with Micor supplies. What tends to be the failure and/or cause of the above condition? Pass transistor failure? Filter caps? Ferro-resonant circuit (cap)? Thanks for any input Eric KE2D __ ___ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 transmit spike
-Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Arck Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 transmit spike At 04:06 PM 1/17/2008, you wrote: This sort of thing happens a lot when people do a tweak peak adjustment of an already working transmitter/exciter. Some stages are by default properly aligned first for a meter dip indication while others are peaked. --I'm still wondering how a low level signal 14 megs away from the passband of a duplexer (assuming it's a Bp/Br) can radiate any distance. Ken
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 transmit spike
Ken, How right you are! I wish I had a nickel (actually, I wish I had $10) for every radio that was brought to me with the complaint I did a complete tune-up on this radio, and now it doesn't work! We call these guys diddle-stick artists. While I am not suggesting that the topic poster did such an abomination, there is the possibility that whoever tuned up the subject radio either did not have all of the appropriate test equipment or the manufacturer's tune-up instructions. It has happened to me, so I know it can happen to others. Of course, there may be a failed part that is causing the spur. Some radios are extremely prone to generating weird spurs if the tuning instructions are not followed precisely. Also, it is very important that all shield plates be reinstalled, with every required screw in place, to avoid leakage. Bottom Line: Tuning for maximum signal is not always the best policy! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Arck Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 4:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 transmit spike At 04:06 PM 1/17/2008, you wrote: This sort of thing happens a lot when people do a tweak peak adjustment of an already working transmitter/exciter. Some stages are by default properly aligned first for a meter dip indication while others are peaked. --I'm still wondering how a low level signal 14 megs away from the passband of a duplexer (assuming it's a Bp/Br) can radiate any distance. Ken
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MOTOROLA ntn4635a charger schematic needed
Mike, The schematic diagram and parts list for the NTN4635B Single-Unit Battery Charger is in Section II of Motorola Publication 6881108C83. Dunno what difference there is between the A and B versions. I have scanned that section and have emailed it to you directly. Other interested parties, please contact me off-list. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n8rtn Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:12 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MOTOROLA ntn4635a charger schematic needed Hi,my charger quit on me looking for a schematic and parts list. thanksmike.n8rtn..
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor power supply issue
Eric, Without knowing what model of power supply you have, my first guess is that you have an open diode in the high-current supply. An open diode will cause low voltage, high ripple, and major hum. However, your comment suggests a gradual onset of hum, which may indicate a filter capacitor failure. If your power supply has a ferro-resonant transformer, you may have a bad commutating capacitor. Not enough info to make this call... Do you have the manual for your specific power supply? If not, what model power supply is it? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kk2ed Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 7:59 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor power supply issue Good Evening, I have a Micor 75 station power supply that is acting up. When the repeater is idle, the voltage output appears clean. But as the load is increased (ie: power output increased), the voltage sags and I get an annoying hum on the tx (indicative of AC ripple on the dc side?). It started out as a barely noticeable hum; the past few days it has gotten to the point where I just shut down the repeater's tx. I haven't had a chance to get to the site to swap it out with a spare. But I'm curious as to what kind of repair I'm in for, and others' experience with Micor supplies. What tends to be the failure and/or cause of the above condition? Pass transistor failure? Filter caps? Ferro-resonant circuit (cap)? Thanks for any input Eric KE2D
RE: [Repeater-Builder] RF Connector for GM300
Bernie, The industry-standard term is Mini-UHF. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bernie Hunt Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 1:51 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RF Connector for GM300 This may be a silly question, but what is the RF connector called on a GM300. Is it a miniture UHF? Thanks, Bernie
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Cavity Duplexer
Wayne, RG-55/U coaxial cable might not be your best choice. That cable came into being more than a half-century ago, as MIL-C-17/26, and was canceled late in 1969. The RG-55B/U had two silver-plated copper braid shields, a solid polyethylene dielectric, and a solid copper center conductor that was silver-plated. It had a HMW polyethylene jacket. Be very careful that you do not confuse RG-55A/U with RG-55B/U cable. The B version has double tinned-copper shields in place of the A version's silver-coated copper shields. In 1969, RG-55B/U was officially replaced with MIL-C-17/84, also known as RG-223/U. In mid-1993, RG-223/U was declared inactive for new designs, and its replacement was MIL-C-17/194, also known as M17/194-1. Unfortunately, the current specification for MIL-C-17/194B calls for a one-mil polyester barrier tape that has an aluminum layer in contact with the outer shield. Some users of this latest version have reported that the aluminum/silver junction is a potential noise source, so keep that in mind, My choice for jumper cables on a cavity duplexer is RG-400/U, not to be confused with the LMR-400 cable. RG-400/U has a stranded copper center conductor that is silver-coated. It has Teflon dielectric, two silver-coated copper braid shields, and an FEP jacket. It looks and performs exactly the same as RG-142/U cable, except that the latter has a solid steel center conductor. There are several Internet sites that sell RG-400/U cable by the foot. I also suggest using silver-plated crimp-type connectors, rather than nickel-plated connectors, to avoid intermodulation problems. Jumper cable at the duplexer should be completely free of dissimilar-metal joints, for best performance. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vk4cya Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:22 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] cavity duplexer Hello to the group, I have just joined the group. The local radio club that I'm in is putting together a cavity duplexer a lot like the one in the July 1972 issue of QST. We are going ahead leaps and bounds but we have came across a problem. It is suggested that we use RG55/U coax on the cavities, but the problem is that I can't find anyone in Australia selling that type of coax. So, is there anyone that could help me in suggesting what else could be used? I have found a couple of sites on the net that have RG55/U but in roll form. We are looking for around 2 metres of it only. Any help would be most great Thanks Wayne vk4cya
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Need Power Amp Transistors for VHF 125 watt MSF-5000 repeater
The transistor you seek is Motorola Part Number 4882233P60, described as MOSFET_SRFM33P60 and priced at $154.40 each. Although I don't have a commercial equivalent number for you, I believe that a careful perusal of an older Motorola RF Device Data Book will reveal the commercial equivalent. I don't think it would be in Motorola's best interests to manufacture a unique device that had limited usage, just for mobile and station power amplifiers. No doubt the 33P60 is simply a selected part with close tolerances, so that it can be paralleled in certain applications. That practice is of modest benefit in single-ended PAs. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kent Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 12:40 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Need Power Amp Transistors for VHF 125 watt MSF-5000 repeater Need Power Amp Transistors for VHF 125 watt MSF-5000 repeater, part number 33P60. Can anyone help? Kent W7AOR www.narri.org Please e-mail w7aor@ narri.org
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Mitrek Power Question.
Kevin, When you are using separate radios for TX and RX, it is a good idea to perform all modifications to both radios, so that they are identical. When one radio fails, you can simply switch them and be back on the air in minutes. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gmail - Home Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 6:02 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Mitrek Power Question. Hi All, Just a quick question to confirm before proceeding to finish. I have a low band Mitrek on 10mtrs. I am using 2 radios, one for RX and one for TX. The TX is working fine, and now I am just fixing a couple of issues on the RX. I note in the manual and Mike's information the wiring for the power (voltage), noticing the 3 main wires for it, the large wire for the PA, pin 12 for TX and pin 4 for RX. Now because the radio is only going to be used in RX mode, I am wondering if I can leave the large wire (which goes to oin 17 I think) and pin 12 off and only run power to pin 4 for the RX side??? Thanks and look forward to your reply. Kevin, ZL1KFM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Celwave 5042-1
Don, The Celwave PD5042-1 Duplexer was made in two versions, the PD5042-1-05, and the PD5042-1-50. Both versions are described in the Celwave and Motorola catalogs as dual pass-notch duplexers. The PD5042-1-05, AKA the Motorola RDD4900A, was intended for a minimum TX-RX separation of 500 kHz. It had an insertion loss of 1.8 dB, an isolation of 60 dB, and a power rating of 100W. The PD5042-1-50, AKA the Motorola RDD4906A, was intended for a minimum TX-RX separation of 5 MHz. It had an insertion loss of 1.0 dB, an isolation of 90 dB, and a power rating of 350W. These duplexers are very good, but they were essentially made-to-order. They will NOT work to spec over the entire 138-174 MHz range; they must be optimized by the factory to work at the frequencies specified by the customer. In other words, the advertised specification is a range that Celwave can manufacture the duplexer; it has nothing to do with ranges over which an existing duplexer may be tuned. The coupling loops must be optimized for the customer's frequencies. Normally, a duplexer originally made for a commercial frequency pair in the 150-160 MHz range will not work properly in the Amateur 2m band without factory rework. I know of several cases where a fellow re-tuned one of these duplexers to the Ham band, and thought that is was working just fine. Not! Once one of these duplexers was properly reworked by Celwave to the 2m band, the performance was significantly improved. As always, YMMV. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Spivey Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 11:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Celwave 5042-1 Has anyone had any experience with a Celwave 5042-1 duplexer? I've very skeptical of any rackmount VHF duplexer although specs on the 6 can version (this one) shows it capable of 500kc spacing at 100 watts. I've seen several of these in recent months and mow I'm getting curious. I haven't located tuning instructions either, and some of the Celwave mobile duplexers can be a bear to tune, so I've heard. For that spacing I would assume this must be a band pass/band reject design too...73 Thanks...N5MZQDon
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MTR2000
Gary, Although I have not worked with the 900 MHz versions of the MTR2000, I doubt that it is possible to tweak the CPS to change the band edges. Both the receiver and the PA have their band ranges embedded into their internal chips, so hacking the CPS cannot change that. Urban legends about CPS hacks are a dime a dozen, but curiously, none of them ever can be put on display in front of experts. The excuse for no proof always is something like a friend of my cousin discovered how to do it, but he was mugged last week and now has amnesia. The MTR2000 is a great machine, in my opinion- I have six of them in service now- but they do not lend themselves to hacking out of band. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 1:21 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MTR2000 Quick question for Eric and others familiar with the MTR's. The 900 MHz MTR has transmitter band limits of 935-941 MHz. It would seem the lower limit must be edited to allow 927 MHz freqs to be programmed. Anyone done this? If so, which version RSS did you edit? Also, which file(s) must be edited? Which offset(s) as well? Please reply direct to me (off the list) if you have any helpful info. Thanks, Gary
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Scotchkote
Scott, I think you mean 3M Scotchkote. I'd try using Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK), Acetone, or Xylene. These are all very aggressive solvents, so care must be used in their use. Once Scotchkote dries, it may be difficult to remove. Chemical-resistant gloves should be worn. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 9:05 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Scotchkoat Use Scotchkoat from 3M to seal the antennas but don't get it on you, it sticks to you as well as it does the antennas. Any one know of any solvents that can be used to remove it?? I have some on some tools and a spot on my car upholstery (I know, I know) Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 612 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater TX/RX Problems
You are experiencing a very common problem- a repeater that is unbalanced, meaning that its mouth is far more effective than its ears. A repeater's coverage area is primarily determined by how well it receives stations in the field, not by how much transmitter power it has. Maybe that sentence should be in capital letters. Ironically, increasing the transmitter power will sometimes reduce the coverage, simply because there is more receiver desense occurring. The Radius M120 does not have a stellar receiver, so you might try making the CDM1250 your receiver and the M120 your transmitter. The CDM radio has far better shielding than the M120. Use a service monitor to determine how much desense you have. One simple method is to disable the transmitter and generate a test signal over the air (not into the receiver itself) that gives you 12 dB SINAD at the repeater's receiver. Then enable your transmitter. If the received signal deteriorates at all, you've got desense. Once you correct the desense, look at ways to reduce the attenuation of the incoming signal. Besides having a good antenna, properly positioned, your feedline should (my Rule of Thumb) have no more than 1.0 dB of attenuation at the receive frequency between the antenna and the duplexer. In other words, 200 feet of RG-213 is not a good choice. Please elaborate on the details of your repeater installation. What make and model antenna do you have, and what is its height AGL and AAT? What kind of feedline, and how long is it? Make and model of the duplexer? What kind of cable is used for jumpers in the cabinet? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ntoda96818 Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:47 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater TX/RX Problems Hi... currently I am running a Radius M120 RX and CDM1250 TX in my repeater unit. I was wondering what I could do to increase my repeater's RX range. It seems that my portables talking to the repeater will RX on their end further then they can TX to the repeater. Is this a norm or do I need to get an add-on equipment of some sort to equal the repeater's RX/TX distance?
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood TKR-750 rptr.
Doug, Although the K2 repeater is the obvious choice for covering the entire 2m band, the K1 version will probably tune down okay. Unless you have the TKR-750 Service Manual in hand, you may not realize that there are front-end coils that must be tuned to optimize the repeater performance. Once tuned per the manual, the TKR-750 will meet its specifications. There are several Kenwood dealers on the Repeater-Builder list who will gladly work out a deal for you. However, if you plan to purchase a new TKR-750 repeater, do not let yourself be talked into anything but the low-split repeater! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n3dab Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:06 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood TKR-750 rptr. Can the type 1 TKR-750 Rptr. (146-174) be programmed and work on 144.570 Rx and 145.170 Tx (or even down to 143 to work on the MARS freq's.) if they are found to be NTIA compliant. Or should I really be looking for the the Type 2 rptr. (136-150)for this purpose. Also can anyone name a source or 2 for Kenwood rptrs that would give a discount price to Ham Clubs,ARES, etc. Thanks Doug N3DAB
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Coverage Area
Mike, You already know the answer- it's by *measuring* the signal strength. Even high-end propagation programs like ComStudy, which I use, can only estimate what the signal strength should be, based upon known topography. The fly in the ointment is the fact that the real world does not agree with the digital elevation models or the land coverage models. My expensive software, and the free Radio Mobile software, share the same deficiency: The real world does not agree with the model! Trees grow, and buildings are erected, and both will attenuate the signal and affect the coverage. To be blunt, only a fool will embrace the coverage plots without verification. I use a really nifty tool made by Berkeley Varitronics, known as the Coyote. It is basically a recording signal strength meter. The Coyote unit contains both a GPS receiver to continuously determine and record the position, date, and time, and a calibrated receiver to provide a continuous record of the signal strength received. I simply drive the perimeter of the promised coverage area, and the proof is in the signal plots. Even in the best-planned systems, there will be dead spots. Even if such dead spots cannot be eliminated, it is valuable information to know where they are. There are some well-known radio manufacturers who have made fantastic promises about coverage when bidding on a contract, who later had to upgrade their systems at a huge cost, because someone actually used a mobile signal strength meter to check on the claims. That company wound up making only a paltry profit after they were forced to meet their claims. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Besemer (WM4B) Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:17 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Measuring Coverage Area What's the most accurate down-and-dirty method of measuring the footprint of a repeater's receiver coverage? I know. the whole question sounds like an oxymoron, but inquiring minds want to know. de WM4B Mike Kathleen, GA
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB4048 rework - finally
How very true! One of the often-overlooked deficiencies of bandpass/bandreject duplexers, AKA BpBr, is that they have only superficial bandpass characteristics; their primary ability rests upon the notching action. Only a true bandpass filter cavity has an effective and narrow bandpass response. When the TX-RX separation is 5 MHz or more, a bandpass-only duplexer will often outperform any BpBr duplexer. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:23 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB4048 rework - finally Yep, I don't have the extra stubs on mine. I am not sure why there are there. One thing to keep in mind is that this duplexer doesn't have enough to stop desense in my MASTRII without adding another can. I added a pass can and the repeater is much happier now. Vern On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 22:51:45 - lcradio2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:thooker%40nmsu.edu wrote: Hi Vern, Please see the PDF here: http://www.repeater-builder.com/db/db-4048.pdf http://www.repeater-builder.com/db/db-4048.pdf and look at the very last page. That is the way my duplexer WAS wired from the factory at 156MHz. See the upper three cavities, they have what looks like 1/4 wave shorted stubs attached to TEES on each cavity. I built new loops and coaxes as per pages 5 and 6, then wired it as per page 4. It eliminates the shorted 1/4 (or so) stubs. Just wondering what they did... Tracy [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:epeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you take a picture of what you are talking about or tell me where it is in the drawing? I have a 4048 that was factory set to 2m so I can try to get a piture of that or at least draw something that represents what is really there. Vern KI4ONW
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable
Glenn, I perused the MSF5000 section on the RBTIP and found a sheet titled Combining Tee Duplexer which addresses only the UHF tee cables. I suppose there is another sheet somewhere that documents the VHF tee cables. The above sheet states that the TX leg on a TX-below-RX cable should be about 1/4 wavelength, and the RX leg should be about 5/4 wavelength. However, the dimensions shown for a green tee cable on a file recently uploaded by KC5OZH, do not agree with the above statement. It appears that Charlie's drawing is of a TLE5732A cable. One-quarter wavelength is about 17 cm at 435 MHz, and about 16 cm at 475 MHz. Likewise, 5/4 wavelength is about 86 cm at 435 MHz, and about 79 cm at 475 MHz. Based upon Charlie's measurements, it would seem that the formulas given in the Combining Tee Duplexer sheet are incorrect. I believe that fabrication of the tee cables with RG-400 coaxial cable and readily-available crimp connectors is a simple task. What may be a challenge is making the tee junction without a significant impedance bump. I'd prefer to use a constant-impedance tee, but such an animal may not be available in a three-way (cable-cable-cable) configuration. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Glenn Shaw Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 5:36 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable Hi Bob This info and pictures of them are on the RB site. Glenn -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob M. Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:52 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable By any chance, is some of this info out there on the web, like on the repeater-builder site? Bob M. == --- Glenn Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:wolfstar%40bluebottle.com mailto:wolfstar%40bluebottle.com wrote: Hi Eric There are 2 of them that we are mainly interested in for 440 ham. The Green Band which is TLE5732A for repeaters that rcv higher than xmt . And the made of unobtainium Yellow band TLE5772A which is for repeaters that rcv lower than xmt. Tnx Glenn N1GBY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:50 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable Glenn, I can't help you with a cable, but I would like to offer a suggestion. Since these cables are so expensive, perhaps it would be nice if those who have them in hand were to make exact drawings of them, with precise measurements, so that they could be duplicated. I don't have the MSF5000 UHF service manual- it's NLA- so I don't know how many versions of this tee cable there are. It can't be too hard to fabricate such a cable assembly, given the proper tools and materials. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn Shaw Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 11:29 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable Every so often someone posts a request on the lists looking for a different cable for their MSF5000 440 machine. I know different poeple have asked about the TLE5732A TEE cable or Green cable. The Big M gets around 200 bucks for these little cables which is steep. I have a green band TLE5732A here that I would like to trade for a Yellow band TLE5772A since the machine I am setting up is T above R or upside down. 73 Glenn
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable
Jeff, I am well aware of the Delta tees used on Sinclair duplexers, but those incorporate one or more N plugs. My comment clearly stated that a three-way crimp tee (that is, crimp-crimp-crimp) was not readily available. I suppose that I could use one of the Delta tees, along with a short jumper that has N connectors on each end, but that is not a duplicate of the Motorola tee cable. One reason I use crimp devices exclusively is to eliminate, wherever possible, additional connectors or adapters. As for the odd lengths of cable in the tee harness, I agree that the dimensions don't seem to make sense. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 11:58 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable The above sheet states that the TX leg on a TX-below-RX cable should be about 1/4 wavelength, and the RX leg should be about 5/4 wavelength. I'm not sure why it would matter whether the Tx freq was above or below the Rx freq given the minor (and generally negligible) differences in length for a 5 MHz split, nor why it would matter whether the 1/4 wave vs 5/4 wave was on the Tx vs Rx since, from an impedance transformation standpoint, they're the same. For the latter, is it just a mechanical issue (i.e. would the tee come out at a more advantageous physical location with one orientation versus another)? Or am I missing something? I'd prefer to use a constant-impedance tee, but such an animal may not be available in a three-way (cable-cable-cable) configuration. Triple-female tees are readily available, standard part number UG-28A/U: RF Industries RFN-1011-1 Amphenol 82-99 Delta UG-28A/U You can also get in line tees that crimp directly onto the cable for two of the ports (Sinclair et al use these in their duplexer harnesses): Delta 1185-019-A551 (for RG142B or RG400) http://www.deltarf.com/results/p63.pdf http://www.deltarf.com/results/p63.pdf Happy holidays, and I hope Santa was nice to y'all. --- Jeff WN3A
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable
Glenn, Yeah, I wonder about what's in the box too, but I suspect it's simply a place to solder the three center conductors together, and the impedance bump is ignored. So, what you need seems to be a TLE5772A Yellow tee cable assembly. Wouldn't it be great if someone who has that cable could make exact measurements of it, just as Charlie KC5OZH did for the TLE5732A Green cable? I'd rather not make up such a cable harness with an N tee and N connectors attaching to it, but I might not have a choice- and it should work. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Glenn Shaw Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 1:08 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable Hi Eric I agree on the tee connection in the center being the tricky part. I wonder also if there is anything else that Moto has put into that small box in the middle of the tee. Or could a person just use a regular tee connector and then make up 3 jumpers with connectors on each end and just connect up to the tee. Problem is that after you get done buying all the connectors and the tee to make one yourself, especially if they were type N, you would be at least halfway towards just picking up a new one. I have not seen these in VHF, since the only MSF5000 stations that were able to use a completely internal duplexer setup were the UHF ones that used the high selectivity optional front end receiver filtering combined with the 3 section prefilter and then the 4 section post filter on the transmit amp, all feeding into the special tuned TEE cable. It all seems sort of a kluge but it does work and you can run the repeater off a single antenna without an external standard duplexer. They claim about 75-80 dB isol at 5 MHz separation if tuned right. It has been mentioned that some people have had problems with the system with desense and there are others that have had it work great. I had anolder analog MSF5000 running with Xmt lower than Rcv that worked super with no desense. This is my first attempt at a Xmt higher than Rcv MSF so we'll see if I can get it to tune, otherwise it will be falling back to plan B and use a regular 4 cav Pass Reject duplexer and be done with it. 73 Glenn N1GBY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 2:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable Glenn, I perused the MSF5000 section on the RBTIP and found a sheet titled Combining Tee Duplexer which addresses only the UHF tee cables. I suppose there is another sheet somewhere that documents the VHF tee cables. The above sheet states that the TX leg on a TX-below-RX cable should be about 1/4 wavelength, and the RX leg should be about 5/4 wavelength. However, the dimensions shown for a green tee cable on a file recently uploaded by KC5OZH, do not agree with the above statement. It appears that Charlie's drawing is of a TLE5732A cable. One-quarter wavelength is about 17 cm at 435 MHz, and about 16 cm at 475 MHz. Likewise, 5/4 wavelength is about 86 cm at 435 MHz, and about 79 cm at 475 MHz. Based upon Charlie's measurements, it would seem that the formulas given in the Combining Tee Duplexer sheet are incorrect. I believe that fabrication of the tee cables with RG-400 coaxial cable and readily-available crimp connectors is a simple task. What may be a challenge is making the tee junction without a significant impedance bump. I'd prefer to use a constant-impedance tee, but such an animal may not be available in a three-way (cable-cable-cable) configuration. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable
Glenn, I can't help you with a cable, but I would like to offer a suggestion. Since these cables are so expensive, perhaps it would be nice if those who have them in hand were to make exact drawings of them, with precise measurements, so that they could be duplicated. I don't have the MSF5000 UHF service manual- it's NLA- so I don't know how many versions of this tee cable there are. It can't be too hard to fabricate such a cable assembly, given the proper tools and materials. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Glenn Shaw Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 11:29 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable Every so often someone posts a request on the lists looking for a different cable for their MSF5000 440 machine. I know different poeple have asked about the TLE5732A TEE cable or Green cable. The Big M gets around 200 bucks for these little cables which is steep. I have a green band TLE5732A here that I would like to trade for a Yellow band TLE5772A since the machine I am setting up is T above R or upside down. 73 Glenn
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable
In order to jump-start the project I suggested in my previous post, the following listings were found in the Motorola Online database, a few minutes ago. Any physical description of them is appreciated: TLE5721B DUPLEX TEE R/T 3 MHZ -- CANCELLED TLE5731B DUPLEX TEE R/T 5 MHZ -- CANCELLED TLE5732A DUPLEX TEE -- $ 181.90 TLE5771A DPLX TEE FOR XMT ABOVE RCV -- CANCELLED TLE5772A DPLX TEE FOR XMT ABOVE RCV -- $ 172.55 TLE5781B DUPLEX TEE T/R 3 MHZ -- $ 101.15 3082092X01 CABLE DUPLEX TEE -- CANCELLED There may be other tee cables that are not listed on MOL. The above listings are verbatim. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 8:50 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable Glenn, I can't help you with a cable, but I would like to offer a suggestion. Since these cables are so expensive, perhaps it would be nice if those who have them in hand were to make exact drawings of them, with precise measurements, so that they could be duplicated. I don't have the MSF5000 UHF service manual- it's NLA- so I don't know how many versions of this tee cable there are. It can't be too hard to fabricate such a cable assembly, given the proper tools and materials. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn Shaw Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 11:29 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable Every so often someone posts a request on the lists looking for a different cable for their MSF5000 440 machine. I know different poeple have asked about the TLE5732A TEE cable or Green cable. The Big M gets around 200 bucks for these little cables which is steep. I have a green band TLE5732A here that I would like to trade for a Yellow band TLE5772A since the machine I am setting up is T above R or upside down. 73 Glenn
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Repeater (i hope)
Ralph, Maybe I'm missing something here, but is your station a Micor, or is it an MSR2000? Your subject line and the attachment do not agree. Please advise what backplane you have- there is more than one and they have significant differences. It is always helpful to identify the part numbers (usually stamped in black ink) of each module, so that we all know what you have. Some modules only work with specific backplanes. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:53 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Repeater (i hope) Hi All Building a Micor Repeater from Scratch Facts. Mother Board (unified Chassis ) origin unknown. Had to add a jumper for +12Volt to RX. Rx with audio works fine. Not using pl board ( control system does PL) Have great local speaker vol and squelch. Exciter, Tripler, PA and circulator all are in working order Have the following modules in the following slots counting from the right front. Audio Line Driver Slot 1 Station Control in Slot 2 Squelch gate in Slot 7 I can Key the transmit on the station control module The exciter and tripler key up and make power PA power comes up about 2 watts and drops off Power Control module check out in a known good complete Micor repeater. Control Transistor is good and plugged in correctly. Checked voltages Missing (- A Key ) minus A Key on the control module. Station Control Module (-A key ) does NOT come up. Station Control Module works in a known good micor repeater. I can add +12 volt to PA control terminal on the PA and PA makes lots of Power on the correct frequency but that bypasses the Circulator SWR protect etc The intent of the whole mess is to use the minimum of the Motorala modules since the Sierra Radio Control system has provisions for Squelch, PTT, RX and TX pl etc any Ideas?? Ralph, W7HSG
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable
Bob, I did a quick check but did not find any specific information. I think you know where I'm heading on this. What I hope to receive is a message along these lines: Refer to the attached photo of a TLE tee cable. I marked a line with a Sharpie pen on the center of the back of the tee connector, which I shall call point A. I measured exactly 18 and 15/16 inches from A to the face of connector B and exactly 9 and 5/16 inches from A to the face of connector C. The cable is MIL-C-17 RG-416/U. I just made up the dimensions for this fictitious example. If we can possibly nail down the exact, precise definition of these elusive tee cables, we will have performed a useful service for the Amateur Radio community! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob M. Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:52 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable By any chance, is some of this info out there on the web, like on the repeater-builder site? Bob M. == --- Glenn Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:wolfstar%40bluebottle.com wrote: Hi Eric There are 2 of them that we are mainly interested in for 440 ham. The Green Band which is TLE5732A for repeaters that rcv higher than xmt . And the made of unobtainium Yellow band TLE5772A which is for repeaters that rcv lower than xmt. Tnx Glenn N1GBY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:50 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable Glenn, I can't help you with a cable, but I would like to offer a suggestion. Since these cables are so expensive, perhaps it would be nice if those who have them in hand were to make exact drawings of them, with precise measurements, so that they could be duplicated. I don't have the MSF5000 UHF service manual- it's NLA- so I don't know how many versions of this tee cable there are. It can't be too hard to fabricate such a cable assembly, given the proper tools and materials. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Glenn Shaw Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 11:29 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 TEE Cable Every so often someone posts a request on the lists looking for a different cable for their MSF5000 440 machine. I know different poeple have asked about the TLE5732A TEE cable or Green cable. The Big M gets around 200 bucks for these little cables which is steep. I have a green band TLE5732A here that I would like to trade for a Yellow band TLE5772A since the machine I am setting up is T above R or upside down. 73 Glenn
[Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 Tee Cable
Wow! Already, KC5OZH has uploaded a drawing of an MSF5000 tee cable. Thanks, Charlie! Since I have never seen one of these cables, let alone looked inside an MSF5000 station, I must ask a few questions: 1. What is the Motorola part number of the pictured cable? It is my understanding that there is a green cable for VHF and a green cable for UHF, and the part numbers are not the same. 2. What cable type is used to fabricate the tee harness? I'd think RG-142 or RG-400, but never assume. 3. Which cable end goes to the transmitter, and which to the receiver? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mitrek Transmitter Tuning
You can easily figure out the connections to the Mitrek test sockets by examining the Mitrek Super Consolette test meter circuit here: www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/test-sets/hln4138a-mitrek-consolette-mete ring-kit.pdf All you need is a meter with a 50 uA movement and a 17,500 ohm resistor. A sensitive analog meter is far superior to a digital meter for this purpose, since you can easily see the voltage peaks- many of which are quite subtle. Since I have many Mitreks to convert and align, I'm building a Mitrek Test Box based upon the above circuit, and using a couple of the 12-pin plugs P/N 0180754A26 shown here, about 1/3 down the page: www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/test-sets/test-set-index.html My test cables come from an RS-232 DE-9M/DE-9F data extension cord, which has nine stranded wires with an overall shield. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of sgreact47 Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 8:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mitrek Transmitter Tuning The accual meter circuit IS one volt full scale at 50uA. The Motorola test sets all used a 19K (give or take) resistor in series with the 50uA meter. That = 20K resistance. Measurements are refered to the 0 to 50 scale. Richard Bessey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, what do I need to measure when they say, Meter position 3 (Which I understand is pin 3 on the test socket) but what do I need to measure with my multi-meter? Milli-volts? Milli-amps? Micro-amps?
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater conversion
Randy, The same information is covered in LBI-4938C, in the Ericsson format, here: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-4938c.pdf I found this LBI by using Google to search for 4EF4A3 and found several sources. This LBI is intended to print in landscape orientation on 11 by 17 inch paper. You can use the Adobe Reader Snapshot tool to select portions of the image to print on standard 8.5 by 11 inch paper. Many of the scanned LBIs on the GE Mastr Index are in full-page format, and the Snapshot tool allows one to select and print just the image portions that are needed. If you don't have access to a printer that has 11 by 17 inch capability, you can save the above PDF file to a floppy or memory stick and take it to a Kinko's or commercial graphics shop for printing in the original format. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randy Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 8:52 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater conversion Thankyou Eric for this information. Would anyone know where I can find the LBI-4100 ??? I have already searched The 'Mastr' Index of GE LBI's, The 4100 is not listed. . . . In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randy, There's nothing to convert; the 4EF4A3 Mastr Progress Line power amplifier is already designed to cover the 6m (50-54 MHz) band. My data identifies this unit as a continuous-duty amplifier that is rated at 150-300 watts, using a 4CX250B tube. It's a real workhorse. It will require careful tuning per the instructions found in LBI-4100, of course, but I don't think any modifications are needed. However, that statement applies only to the power amplifier; the other RF components of a 6m repeater, depending upon their model numbers, may require some modification for peak performance in the 6m band. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Randy Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:51 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater conversion I have access to a GE Power Amp Model# 4EF4A3 The freq is 42-54 MHz Can this repeater be converted to 6m (easily)? I also have the Duplexer.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Manual
It's the same manual. When Ericsson took over GE's product line, many of the LBIs were re-issued in a uniform 11 by 17 inch format. Unfortunately, newer is not always better. Some of Ericsson's LBIs do not contain all of the information and/or details found in the older GE versions. Also, Ericsson decided to chop up some of the long foldout schematic diagrams into two or three sections, greatly reducing their usefulness. Worse still, Ericsson reduced some schematics by 50% or more, to fit on an 11 by 17 inch page. You need a magnifying glass to read such schematics! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randy Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:24 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Manual According to another source, the LBI-4100 is not the one I need, but the LBI-4938C is. . . . In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Randy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know where I can obtain the manual for GE LBI #4100 ? It is not found in: The 'Mastr' Index of GE LBI's
[Repeater-Builder] CTCSS Decoder Response Times
Ken, TIA/EIA-603-C, the international standard for Land Mobile Radio performance, states that CTCSS decoder response times may vary between 224 milliseconds at 67.0 Hz to no more than 150 milliseconds at 100.0 Hz and above. I have measured response times of 80 milliseconds in some radios to tones of 250.3 Hz, when the response at 67.0 Hz was close to 200 milliseconds. So, you are correct that the difference in response times between low and high tones can be measured in microseconds- in my experience the difference can be 120,000 microseconds and still meet the spec. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- Ken Arck wrote: At 02:29 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. And a using a higher tone probably won't help either. You're talking microseconds in difference between a tone at the low range and one at the top end. Ken
RE: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS Decoder Response Times
My measurements were made on an Alinco DR-605T radio which, given the known deficiencies of the brand, may be unrepresentative of the state of the art. The TIA Standard 603 is dated December 2004, so it is likely designed to have rather liberal limits on decoder responses. I agree that modern DSP chips are capable of very fast tone recognition, but often those capabilities are poorly implemented in some transceiver brands. The TIA standard also gives 250 ms as the maximum time for audio cutoff upon removal of the CTCSS tone without reverse burst STE, and 50 ms with reverse burst STE. The world would be a better place if repeater controller manufacturers included reverse burst capability... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Arck Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:50 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS Decoder Response Times I'm curious if you're talking mechanical or something else? Except for a funky MSF5000 I've been beating on (which takes a good 900 ms to decode 1Z), I've never seen performance as bad as you point out in an electronic type decoder. Mechanical, sure. For example, I have a reedless Mitrek decoder and that puppy is very fast, even at 67 Hz. Ken At 05:04 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Ken, TIA/EIA-603-C, the international standard for Land Mobile Radio performance, states that CTCSS decoder response times may vary between 224 milliseconds at 67.0 Hz to no more than 150 milliseconds at 100.0 Hz and above. I have measured response times of 80 milliseconds in some radios to tones of 250.3 Hz, when the response at 67.0 Hz was close to 200 milliseconds. So, you are correct that the difference in response times between low and high tones can be measured in microseconds- in my experience the difference can be 120,000 microseconds and still meet the spec. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- Ken Arck wrote: At 02:29 PM 12/29/2007, you wrote: Nope. A delay board won't do a thing for the decode pickup time and probably not for the release time either. And a using a higher tone probably won't help either. You're talking microseconds in difference between a tone at the low range and one at the top end. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net http://www.irlp.net/ We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Stop the Madness
Doug, Two repeaters operating on the same frequency pair but with different PL tones is essentially a community repeater that will have the same disadvantages. A community repeater is fine for infrequent users in the agricultural, delivery, and towing services, for example. The chances for collisions are rare enough that the users simply wait several seconds and try again. When such a community repeater is tied up for long periods by ragchewers, the other users quickly become annoyed. Each group claims ownership of the frequency, and how dare those windbags keep me from using my machine! Just a few hotheads in this scenario can create chaos. In my area of California's Central Coast, most areas are served by at least two 2m repeaters. This is done not just for better coverage of mountainous terrain, but also to keep a repeater open for general public use while the other repeater is tied up with ARES activity during emergencies or exercises. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Dickinson Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 10:20 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Stop the Madness I still don't understand why people object to two repeaters - properly designed - cannot share the same channel? With separate PL tones and limited hand time, they can complement each other. The use of a coordinator that assigns a channel based on antiquated criteria is still providing exclusive use of a channel to an amateur repeater. As such, I think it could be challenged. In reality, two properly designed and implemented repeaters with PL tones can share the same electromagnetic space and live nicely together - they just get used one at a time based on the initiator's communications need at that time. IMHO Doug KC0SDQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater conversion
Randy, There's nothing to convert; the 4EF4A3 Mastr Progress Line power amplifier is already designed to cover the 6m (50-54 MHz) band. My data identifies this unit as a continuous-duty amplifier that is rated at 150-300 watts, using a 4CX250B tube. It's a real workhorse. It will require careful tuning per the instructions found in LBI-4100, of course, but I don't think any modifications are needed. However, that statement applies only to the power amplifier; the other RF components of a 6m repeater, depending upon their model numbers, may require some modification for peak performance in the 6m band. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Randy Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 10:51 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater conversion I have access to a GE Power Amp Model# 4EF4A3 The freq is 42-54 MHz Can this repeater be converted to 6m (easily)? I also have the Duplexer.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater
What are the model or combination numbers of these Mastr II radios? What kind of help do you need? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of alton311 Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 2:05 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater I have 2 Uhf GE Master II I need Help?
RE: [Repeater-Builder] R1225 repeater
Mark, You should order a copy of the R1225 service manual 6880905Z53 from Motorola Parts while it is still in print. It costs about $13, less than 1/3 the cost to make a color copy of it. The receiver front end has back-to-back diodes to provide some protection against high voltages, but a lightning strike or a misconnection to a transmitter can certainly fry them. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n9wys Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:12 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] R1225 repeater A while back I posted an inquiry regarding an R1225 repeater I was looking at for another. it was deaf as a fence post. Well, today I had a chance to finally open this thing up and get a look-see. (This took so long because I've been ridding myself of a number of kidney stones.) Anyway, the front end of the receiver is burnt to a crisp - my best guess is that it got hit with strong incoming RF that was not blocked by a mis-tuned duplexer. or the owner hooked the duplexer up backward. (I think this was discussed previously.) Anyway, in order to get this thing going, I am in need of the receive board layout diagram and a parts list. With the radio oriented so the RX antenna connection is at the lower left, the components that are toasted are just above the antenna connection. (They all look like SMC capacitors, but without the board layout and parts list, I can't be certain - nor can I determine proper replacement values.) If anyone can help, I'd be much obliged! Thanks in advance! Mark - N9WYS
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion
Steve, That trick works fine for offsetting the harness tee from the loop assembly in the can, but it doesn't do a thing for increasing the spacing between the tees. The later-design Sinclair Q202-G duplexers come with a one-piece harness that is made up from sections of RG-214/U cable with five crimped-on N tees and two crimped-on straight N plugs. The tees are made by Delta Electronics, and are intended for one-time, permanent installation. Even if great care is used in cutting off the ferrules, it is very easy to damage the tee during the process. Although it is time-consuming to dismantle the high-split harness and re-build it with longer cable sections between the tees, the club chose to buy the harness from Sinclair. It cost about $125 five years ago. Once the new harness was installed, the Q202-G duplexer tuned up perfectly in the 2m band. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:06 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion When I moved some 155 mhz duplexers to 146 I found adding a type n elbow in places where I could not get the notch to move made just enough difference. This adds about an inch without having to rebuild the harness, or else a nice way to test cable lengths. Also if adding the elbow makes things worse, then you might want to cut and try. 73, Steve NU5D Eric Lemmon wrote: Bill, This topic has been addressed several times in recent years. There is no formula for the harness; Sinclair makes two harnesses, one with 12
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion
Bill, I measured the new low-split Sinclair harness before installing it, and found that the distance between the centers of the tees was exactly 14. The length of the loop inside the cavity is about 8.5, and this length must be considered when performing the calculations. My guess is that a distance of 15.9 inches between harness tee centers will result in a tuning in the 125-130 MHz range. Did you consider the loop length in your calculations? Your comment about the cable on your duplexer being single-shielded RG-213 got me wondering. Sure enough, the cable I pulled off the club's Q202-G duplexer was RG-213, but the new harness was RG-214. I have another Q202-G duplexer that has the original high-split harness on it, and it is RG-214. I guess Sinclair wised up to the leakage issue... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Photinos Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion Thanks to all who have replied. You have been a great help. Have calculated the harness length for my freqs to be ~15.9 when taking into account the velocity factor of the interconnect cable etc. Believe it or not the original cable on our cans is RG-213 and not RG-214. We are replacing with high quality double shielded(100%) cable. FYI the harness is currently $311 from Sinclair. It will ending up costing us around $100 in parts to assemble our own harness. Significant difference. Hope to have it completed and up on our DSTAR repeater in a couple of days or so. Thanks again 73s Bill - W4RVN Eric Lemmon wrote: Steve, That trick works fine for offsetting the harness tee from the loop assembly in the can, but it doesn't do a thing for increasing the spacing between the tees. The later-design Sinclair Q202-G duplexers come with a one-piece harness that is made up from sections of RG-214/U cable with five crimped-on N tees and two crimped-on straight N plugs. The tees are made by Delta Electronics, and are intended for one-time, permanent installation. Even if great care is used in cutting off the ferrules, it is very easy to damage the tee during the process. Although it is time-consuming to dismantle the high-split harness and re-build it with longer cable sections between the tees, the club chose to buy the harness from Sinclair. It cost about $125 five years ago. Once the new harness was installed, the Q202-G duplexer tuned up perfectly in the 2m band. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:06 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion When I moved some 155 mhz duplexers to 146 I found adding a type n elbow in places where I could not get the notch to move made just enough difference. This adds about an inch without having to rebuild the harness, or else a nice way to test cable lengths. Also if adding the elbow makes things worse, then you might want to cut and try. 73, Steve NU5D
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion
Dwayne, You make a good point. Like Bill, I would be reluctant to fork over more than $300 for a cable harness from Sinclair. However, I don't think you can duplicate the Sinclair harness for $75. If I were to make up such a harness myself, I would not use sections of RG-214 with N plugs on each end, but would use crimp-on tees that have a side N male plug to mate with the N female jack on each loop assembly. These tees are about $25 each from Delta Electronics, so you have $125 in tees, perhaps $10 in the two male N plugs going to the receiver and transmitter, and perhaps $15 in RG-214 cable. More info about the Delta P/N 1185-004-A000-2 tee connector is here: www.deltarf.com/results/p60.pdf Although it is certainly an option to use ordinary N tees and put N male plugs on each end of six pieces of cable, I personally would rather not have so many plugs. The crimp-on tees make the final product very sanitary. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ldgelectronics Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:55 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion Eric, Being the cheap hams that we are (I am at least), couldn't you just get 5 Tees for a couple bucks a piece and have your favorite two-way shop make up four 12.5 inch cables from RG-214 for about $15 each? Total around $75. I've had cables made in our area for about that price. Obviously, you could build them yourself for even cheaper. Dwayne Kincaid WD8OYG Steve, That trick works fine for offsetting the harness tee from the loop assembly in the can, but it doesn't do a thing for increasing the spacing between the tees. The later-design Sinclair Q202-G duplexers come with a one- piece harness that is made up from sections of RG-214/U cable with five crimped-on N tees and two crimped-on straight N plugs. The tees are made by Delta Electronics, and are intended for one-time, permanent installation. Even if great care is used in cutting off the ferrules, it is very easy to damage the tee during the process. Although it is time-consuming to dismantle the high-split harness and re-build it with longer cable sections between the tees, the club chose to buy the harness from Sinclair. It cost about $125 five years ago. Once the new harness was installed, the Q202-G duplexer tuned up perfectly in the 2m band. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 1:06 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion When I moved some 155 mhz duplexers to 146 I found adding a type n elbow in places where I could not get the notch to move made just enough difference. This adds about an inch without having to rebuild the harness, or else a nice way to test cable lengths. Also if adding the elbow makes things worse, then you might want to cut and try. 73, Steve NU5D Eric Lemmon wrote: Bill, This topic has been addressed several times in recent years. There is no formula for the harness; Sinclair makes two harnesses, one with 12
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion
Dave, I'm not sure who your question was directed to, but if it is me, here's my answer: When the Sinclair Q202-G duplexer cable harness is laid out straight, use a Sharpie pen to draw a line on the back of each of the five tee connectors that are crimped onto the cable. This mark will be in the exact center of the tee, and in line with the center of the side connector that plugs into the loop assembly on each of four cans. On the high-split cable harness, these marks will be 12 inches apart. On the low-split cable harness, these marks will be 14 inches apart. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hough Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 9:14 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion One question you asked remains; from what points are the lengths of the individual harness components measured? Dave, W7GK Bill Photinos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks to all who have replied. You have been a great help. Have calculated the harness length for my freqs to be ~15.9 when taking into account the velocity factor of the interconnect cable etc. Believe it or not the original cable on our cans is RG-213 and not RG-214. We are replacing with high quality double shielded(100%) cable. FYI the harness is currently $311 from Sinclair. It will ending up costing us around $100 in parts to assemble our own harness. Significant difference. Hope to have it completed and up on our DSTAR repeater in a couple of days or so. Thanks again 73s Bill - W4RVN
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion
Bill, This topic has been addressed several times in recent years. There is no formula for the harness; Sinclair makes two harnesses, one with 12 between tees, and another (for the 136-150 MHz split) with 14 between tees. The coupling loops are identical between splits; the harness is the only difference. The harness is completely symmetrical. It may be easier to simply purchase the correct low-split harness from Sinclair, for about $150. The harness is fabricate with Delta crimped tee connectors. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wpp3 Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2007 12:35 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair Q202G duplexer Conversion Read the posts here already and wish to clarify a few things. First I am in the process of converting a Q202G from the 160mhz range down into the 2m band, specifically 144.7500/145.3500Mhz. I have found that I will need to replace the harness to do this as it will not tune down that far. 1. I Understand I must make the harnesses at 1/4 wavelength each between the cavities and from the cavities to the antenna T connector. What is the formula for the exact cable length? i.e. 1/4 wavelength of freq * velocity factor of cable = cable segment length? 2. Are the lengths exactly the same for the low and the high sides or are they dependent on individual frequency for each side. 3. Where is the measurement taken? From tip-to-tip of cable or from center-of-T to center-of-T, etc? 4. In relation to #3 I will be using a N-Male/UHF-Female adapter on each can. Then connecting the T to that adapter. Will this affect the cable harness length calculations and if so how? Thanks in advance! Best Regards, Bill - W4RVN
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer help
Jack, Contact Sinclair Tech Support for guidance. Go here: www.sinctech.com Some Res-Lok duplexers are problematic when attempting to move them to a new split, because the coupling between cavities is via a machined slot rather than an external jumper. Dunno if yours is like that. When you call Sinclair, have the duplexer model and serial numbers handy, along with the operating frequencies marked on the label. It may be possible to have your duplexer modified at the Sinclair plant. Although this is expensive, it's a heckuva lot cheaper than buying a new duplexer. The main benefit, of course, is that perfect performance on your repeater pair is guaranteed. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Davis Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 7:47 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer help I have a Sinclair ResLock 900 MHz duplexer that I am trying to retune to 902-927 MHz. It was on 941.XX with a 3.6 MHz split and the pass cavities tune up just fine but the notches do not make it to the 25 MHz split. Has anyone made one of these work in the 25 MHz split used in the Ham band? I could sure use some help with this one! Jack K6YC
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Which 440 Synthesized radio to use with IRLP?
While I agree that the Kenwood TM-271A is a fine radio, it is still designed for the Amateur Radio market, and it lacks many of the features and adjustments that are found in a true commercial-grade radio. When compared to a Kenwood TK-760GK2, a 128-channel 25W radio that is designed for 136-162 MHz operation, the TM-271A pales in comparison. For those Hams who want more power, the TK-760HGK2 offers 50W with the same features. The brochure is here: www.island-communications.com/760g.pdf I have both the TK-760GK2 and the TK-860GK for mobile use, and I have had zero problems with them. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cort Buffington Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 3:41 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Which 440 Synthesized radio to use with IRLP? Just sent an e-mail as suggested. I would absolutely LOVE to see a good, commercial grade amateur 70cm rig. On Dec 22, 2007, at 4:49 PM, Richard Sharp, KQ4KX wrote: Certainly, my suggestion here isn't going to be a solution for your immediate project but thought it might be useful for future applications for others wanting to do the same thing. As many may know Kenwood has a 2m monoband radio that is of commercial quality - the TM-271A. I use many for APRS digipeaters and packet links with excellent results. What's interesting is Kenwood (Japan) also makes a 70cm version - the TM-471. However, Kenwood USA made a decision not to import and sell the 70cm version due to history of low sales for any monoband mobile other than 2m. I recently spoke with Phil Parton of Kenwood USA regarding the TM-471 and he indicated that if he received emails indicating an interest in the TM-471 70cm monoband mobile that he'd try to get Kenwood USA management to let him bring in the radio. So, if you would like to have an option other than Alinco for a 70cm monoband mobile radio drop Phil an email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unfortunately, I doubt Kenwood will develop a 222MHz version so Alinco will continue to be the only source for that band. 73, Richard KQ4KX Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexers
Ralph, Contact Telewave at www.telewave.com for both Telewave and Wacom duplexer tuning information. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:17 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexers Looking for factory alignment for the following Telwave TPRD 1554 Wacom WP655-R2 Ralph, W7HSG
RE: [Repeater-Builder] antennas for gmrs repeater
Jed, You really can't go wrong with a Decibel Products (Andrew) DB-404, for less than $400. It has great durability, and its coverage pattern is very uniform. It is a dual-dipole antenna that can be set for omni or elliptical pattern. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jed Barton Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] antennas for gmrs repeater Hey guys, Any opinions on an antenna for a gmrs repeater? It won't be going on a 300 foot tower, but it will be on the top of a hospital. I would rather not get a station master, but something that could withstand a little weather. Any ideas on the biggest bang for the buck? Thanks, Jed
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for an oddball Batwing product
Ken, Motorola makes an offset bracket kit that is ideal for this purpose. It is Part #0784384T03, a package of two brackets, for about $55. These are heavy-duty brackets, designed to mount an MTR2000 station in an equipment rack so that its center of gravity is aligned with the rack uprights. They are 3U high (5.25 inches) and have an offset of 4.5 inches. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Arck Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:08 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for an oddball Batwing product As I don't have a lot of free time these days to fabricate 'em. I'm looking for the set of brackets that allow a T1500 series duplexer to be recessed mounted in a rack so the tuning shafts don't protrude past the front of the rack. If you have a set that you wish to part with, contact me offlist Thanks Ken
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for an oddball Batwing product
I checked the bracket price on MOL just a few minutes ago, and it was $66.73, but that's still a chunk of change. Since the owners of the sites where I have repeaters will not allow wooden spacers or cabinet parts, I suggest a low-cost alternative. McMaster-Carr and other suppliers offer threaded steel hex standoffs up to four inches in length, for about six bucks apiece. Four of these standoffs might be the appropriate solution for mounting a duplexer with an offset. The part number 92230A150 seems to be a good choice. It is 4 long, and has 10-32 female threads on each end. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Arck Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for an oddball Batwing product At 09:26 AM 12/18/2007, you wrote: Ken, Motorola makes an offset bracket kit that is ideal for this purpose. It is Part #0784384T03, a package of two brackets, for about $55. These are heavy-duty brackets, designed to mount an MTR2000 station in an equipment rack so that its center of gravity is aligned with the rack uprights. They are 3U high (5.25 inches) and have an offset of 4.5 inches. -for future reference, the big M wants $77 for it these days. I'll figure out something else for that price! Ken
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Remote power monitoring
Mike, The LDG TW-2 talking power monitor appears to be ideally suited to your application, since all you need is to provide switch closures to the unit and then apply the audio output to the controller for transmission. If you were to use a commercial forward/reverse power monitoring module from EMR or Telewave, you would need to amplify and scale the outputs, create voice macros, and do the calculations to generate meaningful SWR announcements. That's a lot of work! I have no personal experience with the LDG TW-2, but I am awaiting the arrival of one, and I will be happy to share my findings and interface suggestions with you and any others who are interested in this unique application. One question comes to mind: Is it really necessary that you know exactly what the forward/reverse power readings are, or the SWR, or are you concerned about whether the values have drifted outside a certain tolerance? I think that I would want to hear a voice notification that power is abnormally low, or the SWR is abnormally high, rather than the value. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Besemer (WM4B) Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 4:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Remote power monitoring I'm interested in remotely monitoring the power/SWR at the repeater site and having the ability to have a macro poll the device and report status over the repeater output. I see that LDG makes a power meter with a voice output that I could probably interface, but is there something designed more specifically for the application I have in mind? The controller is a CAT-1000. Ideas? Mike WM4B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Remote power monitoring
Mike, Oh, you've got one of those guys, too? He might be related to the fellow in my area who thinks that increasing the power on his mobile radio will raise the volume level on the 2m repeater- even if he is already full quieting! He and his relatives always give loud and clear signal reports, even when the talker is barely readable. These fellows are well-meaning, but they cannot bring themselves to criticize a fellow Ham, even when that Ham has a nearly unreadable signal. Back to the original topic: I shall endeavor to create a plausible interface with the WT-2, after I receive it. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Besemer (WM4B) Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 5:21 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Remote power monitoring Eric, In a perfect world, I'd love to both hear specific values AND be alerted if values drifted out-of-bounds. The idea of remote monitoring came about because we have several users who swear 'the repeater is weak today', but whenever I go check it, inevitably it's just fine. I'd love to be able to punch up the forward and reflected power when one of these jokers catches me on the air, just to show them that nothing has changed. (Of course, that still wouldn't convince them. but at least I'd get a laugh. AND some piece of mind that everything was okay.) The LDG TW-2 is exactly what I was thinking about. seems easy enough to interface via the CAT-1000 user outputs and user inputs. I was even thinking about finding a way to set some sort of break-points to trigger an alarm, as you were talking about. I'm definitely interested in hearing what you find out once yours arrives. If you have good luck, I'm going to see if I can get the club to spring for one. 73, Mike WM4B From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:10 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Remote power monitoring Mike, The LDG TW-2 talking power monitor appears to be ideally suited to your application, since all you need is to provide switch closures to the unit and then apply the audio output to the controller for transmission. If you were to use a commercial forward/reverse power monitoring module from EMR or Telewave, you would need to amplify and scale the outputs, create voice macros, and do the calculations to generate meaningful SWR announcements. That's a lot of work! I have no personal experience with the LDG TW-2, but I am awaiting the arrival of one, and I will be happy to share my findings and interface suggestions with you and any others who are interested in this unique application. One question comes to mind: Is it really necessary that you know exactly what the forward/reverse power readings are, or the SWR, or are you concerned about whether the values have drifted outside a certain tolerance? I think that I would want to hear a voice notification that power is abnormally low, or the SWR is abnormally high, rather than the value. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Besemer (WM4B) Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 4:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Remote power monitoring I'm interested in remotely monitoring the power/SWR at the repeater site and having the ability to have a macro poll the device and report status over the repeater output. I see that LDG makes a power meter with a voice output that I could probably interface, but is there something designed more specifically for the application I have in mind? The controller is a CAT-1000. Ideas? Mike WM4B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Linkcomm rlc-1
Dennis, J4 is about one inch behind the MAIN port, and two inches from the right edge of the board, the side with the six pots in a row. J5 is about one inch behind the LINK port, and about 3.5 inches from the right edge of the board. The jumper designations are clearly marked on the two RLC-1 controllers I have... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:32 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Linkcomm rlc-1 Where is j4 and j5 on the rlc-1 board ? I am trying to change cor . Thanks, Dennis
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 6 meter repeater Identification and help
Travis, The Motorola Reference Manual describes the B61LPY-3100DT as a Repeater (RT) Station for the 25-50 MHz band. It is rated as 100 watts continuous duty, with Private-Line squelch and DC remote control. The service manual for the station is 6881003E65 which, unfortunately, is long out of print and not available from Motorola Parts. You may be able to locate that manual on an auction site. Armed with the service manual, you should be able to convert that station's receiver to the 6m band by changing out some capacitors in the front end and local oscillator stages. The transmitter section will take a lot more work, but it can be done with the appropriate tools and test equipment. You might consider contacting a firm that specializes in such conversions for suggestions and cost. Repeater-Builder (the Company) is one such firm. The Sinclair R-103G duplexer is a very good unit, but it will take some serious sheet-metal work to make it perform well in the 6m band. The conversion involves shortening both the outer cylinder and the internal elements, and changing the cable harness. You might consider contacting Sinclair tech support for suggestions, at www.sinctech.com Although they are somewhere around 30 years old, such Motorola stations seem to keep running... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of travis8303 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 8:23 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 6 meter repeater Identification and help Hello group, I have four Motorola repeaters in the 48-49 MHZ range. The fifth is high VHF. 1) Can anyone tell me what they are? 2) Any leads for information or people that might know how to convert the equipment for ham use? The repeater model is B61LPY 3100DT SPL (it looks like) The duplexers are model R-103G Pictures are posted on my site: hteeteep://aa9nv.r2i.net/Repeaters6M.htm hteeteep://aa9nv.r2i.net/Repeaters6M.htm take out the extra ee's :) Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Travis AA9NV
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 part number decode
Eric, The C44CXB7106BT model number breaks down as follows: C = Compa-Station 4 = 40 watt output power 4 = 406-512 MHz Range (but, see below) CX = MSF Digital Capable B = 120 VAC Primary Voltage 7 = Programmable Squelch 1 = 25 kHz Channel Spacing 0 = N/A, always zero 6 = Tone Remote Control B = Version Code T = Repeater Station The model number does not tell you what frequency range it is: Range 1, 403-435 MHz, or Range 2, 435-475 MHz. Look for a number stamped on the power amplifier; if the number is TTE1521A, the station is in Range 1, and if the number is TTE1522A, it is Range 2. You can also look for a number on the RF Tray. If you see the number TUE2001A, it is Range 1, and if it is TUE2002A, it is Range 2. The Basic Service Manual for the MSF5000 is Motorola Part 6881092E05, and is still available from Motorola Parts for about $45. Unfortunately, the detailed service manual for UHF stations, 6881092E80, was recently cancelled and is NLA. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric M. Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 1:34 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 part number decode I have a friend who has acquired and MSF5000 repeater and it is currently programmed for low split UHF, but we are wondering what frequency range will operate in. Inside on the back is what looks like a motorola part number, which is C44CXB7106BT, can anyone out there tell me what frequency range this will operate under or if this isn't the right number tell me where I can look on the repeater. Thanks, Eric VA3EAM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Polaris Industries PAII progamming box
John, Have you contacted Polaris Tech Support for assistance in using their product? The fellow I spoke with was extremely knowledgeable about my issue, and he solved the problem in just a few minutes on the phone. It's worth a try... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 2:57 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Polaris Industries PAII progamming box Hi, I have posted this on another group but I know there is a vast amount of knowledge on this group. Does anyone have a Polaris Industries PA II box. Please email off the list as I need some info on howit should operate and the cable connections for it Thanks, John
RE: [Repeater-Builder] simple repeater
Steve, You did a great job of hitting all of the key points, and I agree with the majority of your estimates. One point that should be clarified is that when dual antennas are used, they must be separated vertically, one over the other, by no less than 30 feet to achieve about 55 dB of isolation. A similar isolation would require more than 450 feet of horizontal separation which is, of course, impractical due to line loss. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Kometz Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:12 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] simple repeater As others have posted, I think you will be disappointed using that setup. Here are things to consider: There are fairly standard graphs available from several sources giving guidance as to need for duplex isolation, isolation curves for cavities, freq offset, antenna separation, etc. GE, Motorola, most of the duplexer manufacturers have these graphs posted, so go do some looking and you will find them. For example, at 600 kHz, in the two meter band the TX-RX Tech-Aid says you need 98 dB of isolation with a GOOD receiver and a 100 watt transmitter. If you are going to run less power, correct that to about 90 dB.(just estimating 8 dB less TX power) If you use a weird split, and make that 2 MHz offset instead of 600 kHz, the 100 watt figure is down to about 76 dB. (again correct for low tx you are around 68 dB). Again, going to a TX-RX Tech-Aid chart, you can get about 56 dB of isolation between two antennas perfectly aligned, 30 ft separation.. So, somewhere you need to get a LEAST 12 dB of isolation to even run 2 MHz. And thirty some for 600 kHz spacing. And one of the ways to get that isolation is to just suffer some receive desense. A few dB is not that big of deal in a portable set up. But if you start out with a system that suffers more that say 6 or 8 dB, you will be disappointed. Weak signals get clobbered, and the repeater just goes kerchunk a lot. As other posters said, those particular radios have very wide front end receivers. If you have a radio that hears a -125 dB signal, as compared to an older more selective radio that is more like -117 you will need that additional 8 dB somewhere. Not to mention the wide band noise the Tx would make somewhere off the Rx freq. A little disclaimer here: These figures from the various charts are not precise. (altho the charts are all pretty close to the same from one manufacturer to another) I am just quickly estimating, and not covering all variables (like cable and connector differences, losses, etc) With many radios to choose from, and performance differences frequency to frequency there are even more variables. I am not trying to talk you out of experimenting, just suggesting things that will help you be more successful (and less disappointed). Generally, you may have more success with Commercial radios ( I like the Maxtrac, Radius GM300 lines, others I know use the Midlands and Kenwoods) If you don't really need frequency agility, use the separate antennas, and a single small cavity on each. There are several combinations that may work, but try not to start out with something that won't work good enuf to satisfy your need. Do that little bit of math and get a duplex budget figured out. Then shoot for about 10 dB better than you think you need. And last but not least, if it is easy enuf, TRY it.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] GE MastrII Auxiliary Receiver
Adam, Thanks for getting back to me! Your Auxiliary Receiver is a 19D417546G7. (The first G is a 6) The LBI that covers that unit is either LBI-4915 or LBI-30766. The latter LBI is available here: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-library/lbi-30766l.pdf I hope this information helps you troubleshoot the problem. Information about the 19C320918G1 10-volt regulator board is also in LBI-30766. Please let us know what you find. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam C. Feuer Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 6:45 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] GE MastrII Auxiliary Receiver Hi Eric, I went back to the site today and pulled the receiver chasis. I'm more of a SpectraTac person myself so bare with me. This receiver is a 19 inch rack mount voting MastrII receiver. The only number stamped on the rear of the chasis is 19D41754GG7. It has two optional boards installed, the CG decoder (dip switch version) and the status tone (1950hz) generator board. The 10v regulator board has a model number of 320918G1 REV B. There are two fuses on this board and I keep blowing fuse 801. (802 has never blown yet) Interesting enough, I looked inside of another identical (looking) receiver, and its 10v regulator board only has one fuse on it. (but that receiver is fine so I ain't messing with it!) If I had to guess, I would say that the one fuse board is of older vintage than my 2 fuse board based on appearance only. (it just looks older, caps, etc.) With the receiver now on the bench I'm feeding it with 13.8 volts from my Astron VS12M. The ammeter goes up just over an amp and then fuse 801 blows. I removed the IFAS board from the chasis and the receiver now draws close to nothing, the 10v regulator measures 10.01, and no fuses blow. Put the IFAS board back in, fuse 801 blows again. SoI put in another IFAS board, and again my fuse 801 blows. Needless to say, I'm not sure what the problem is yet. I have no documentation so I can't help with LBI's. Not sure if I should replace the two caps on the 10v board (200uf at 18v and 400uf at 18v) because the 10 volts looks great when there is no IFAS board installed. SoI ponder my next move Adam N2ACF At 20:37 12/11/2007, you wrote: Adam, I am struggling to understand which receiver you have, so that I can understand where the fuse is in the circuit. I am fairly new to the GE radio scene, so I hope you will indulge me a little. It will help me, and perhaps a few others, if you identify exactly what model or combination radio receiver you have, and which LBI you are referring to. As one who submits scanned LBIs to the GE Master Index, I really want to know about any LBIs that are lacking, so that I can locate a needed hard copy and fill that void. Thanks! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Adam C. Feuer Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 3:49 AM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:repeater-builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] GE MastrII Auxiliary Receiver Hello All, Yesterday, I had to go up the mountain to the repeater site because I noticed that my GE voting receiver was not working. When I got there, I found that one of the fuses had blown. I believe it was fuse 801 and it had a 1amp glass fuse in it. Not being fully equipped to trouble shoot ( I actually left work due to curiosity to see what was wrong) I simply replaced the fuse and the receiver came back to life working perfectly. I checked it periodically on my way back to work and home for the night and it was working fine. I come to wake up this morning and the receiver is dead again. Before I attempt to sneak out of work today, has anyone seen this fuse blow multiple times in this 19inch rack mount receiver? This particular receiver is being fed with an external 12volt source (not a supply attached to the receiver) that feeds other 12volt devices which are all working fine. I'm going to stop at the local two way shop and see if I can find a diagram but until then, I was wondering if anyone has had this trouble before. Thanks in advanced. Adam N2ACF Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna standoff recomendations
Robert, An offset of six feet is going to require some pretty hefty support members. Check out the mounting hardware shown for the DB224 and DB228 on the Andrew catalog page: www.andrew.com/catalog/product.aspx?id=135ShowObsolete=falsefilter=466|3| |0|| or use this TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/yvpqs6 Once that you find out that the side-mounting hardware might cost more than the antenna, and you start thinking about making your own side mount out of Unistrut, make sure everything is as corrosion-proof as possible. The lateral pipes or struts and clamps should be hot-dip galvanized. Bolts, nuts, and washers should be high-strength stainless steel if not hot-dip galvanized. If the tower you will use is at one side of the intended coverage area, think about arranging the dipole elements in an offset configuration. This will allow you to use the tower as part of the pattern shaping, and will greatly reduce the distance from the tower. It also reduces the moment arm of the antenna, and the resulting twist of the tower. Contact Andrew Tech Support for guidance on side-mounting the DB224 and DB228. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of georgiaskywarn Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:22 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna standoff recomendations Hi Folks, Before looking on Hutton and Tessco (others?) sites, wanted to ask the group about some recommendations for a new site. Looking for a antenna standoff for the db224 and db420 antennas. Standoff MUST be able to stand off about 6ft min. from the tower. The tower is a Rohn SSV tower. The standoff *may* be mounted on the 5.5 pipe, however it may be on the smaller pipe (gets smaller as it gets higher). Also will be needing the sway bar for that length as well. Any recommendations before digging into the catalogs. Going to be making recommendations to our group that will be doing the grant writing for our repeaters going up. Thanks, Robert Burton KD4YDC DEC NWS in Peachtree City, GA. www.georgiaskywarn.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for some info good or bad on this coax?
Steve, I'd like to know more about the copper/aluminum center conductor. Does that specification mean that it may be either copper or aluminum, or that it is copper-clad aluminum? Either way, I wouldn't touch this stuff! If the manufacturer is not a qualified supplier of Military-Specification coaxial cable, I don't waste time or money on their products. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of w2sxk Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 1:17 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for some info good or bad on this coax? Does anyone have any experience or info on this coax good or bad? Below is the info on it. I'm looking at buying a spool or so for a group where I live to divi up. Will use mostly for household VHF/UHF base service. Steve - W2SXK / [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 500 ft. CA-400-R500 - $189.99 Per Reel 1000 ft. CA-400-R1K - $349.99 Per Reel Altelicon CA-400 Series Low-Loss Coax Cable Features 500 ft. CA-400-R500 - $189.99 Per Reel 1000 ft. CA-400-R1K - $349.99 Per Reel 400-Series Coax Cable from Alteliconhttp://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/copyrighted_images/bulk_reels_200 .jpg * High performance flexible low loss coaxial cable * UV resistant polyethylene jacket * Lightweight * Excellent low loss characteristics * Equal performance and mechanical characteristics to cables from CommScope®, Times Microwave Systems®, Belden® and Andrew® * Available in 500 ft. or 1000 ft. reels Downloads http://www.altelicon.com/pdfs/ca-400.pdf http://www.altelicon.com/pdfs/ca-400.pdf View Data Sheet http://www.altelicon.com/pdfs/ca-400.pdf Description Altelicon CA-400 is a UV resistant polyethylene jacketed high performance flexible Low Loss coaxial cable. This coaxial cable has become a standard of the outdoor wireless LAN and WLL industries. This lightweight cable has excellent low loss characteristics and a durable UV protected black polyethylene jacket. The CA-400 is available in 500 foot or 1000 foot reels. For shorter lengths, please contact us. The Altelicon CA-400 features equal performance and mechanical characteristics to cables from CommScope®, Times Microwave Systems®, Belden and Andrew®. The CA-400 low loss cable is a high performance alternative to CommScope® WBC-400, Times Microwave Systems® LMR-400, Belden® 9914 / 9913 / 7810 and Andrew® CNT-400 coax cable. HyperLink also has available fully tested custom cable assemblies featuring 400-series cable. HyperLink stocks 400-Series compatible connectors, heatshrink and crimping tools. Specifications http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/copyrighted_images/cable_cross_sec.gif Construction Specification MaterialDiameter (mm / in) 1. Inner Conductor Copper/Aluminum 2.74 / 0.108 2. DielectricPhysical Foam Polyethylene 7.24 / 0.285 3. Outer Conductor Bonded Aluminum Foil + Tinned Copper Braid 8.13 / 0.320 4. JacketBlack Polyethylene 10.29 / 0.405 Electrical Characteristics Capacitance (pF/m) 77.1 Impedance (ohm) 50 Velocity (%)85 Inner Conductor DC Resistance (Ù/km) 2.92 Outer Conductor DC Resistance (Ù/km) 5.41 Shielding Effectiveness (dB) 90 Cutoff Frequency16.2 GHz Peak Power 16KW Mechanical and Environmental Characteristics Min. Bend Radius (mm / in) 51 / 2.0 Operating Temp. (°C)-40 to + 80 Tensile Strength (kg / lb) 72.6 / 160 Cable Weight (kg/m - lb/ft) 0.099kg/m 0.068lb/ft RoHS Compliant Yes Attenuation and Avg. Power (20°C) Frequency (MHz) Attenuation dB (100m / 100ft) Avg. Power (KW) 30 2.2 / 0.7 3.30 50 2.9 / 0.9 2.60 150 5.0 / 1.5 1.50 220 6.10 / 1.861.20 450 8.9 / 2.7 0.83 900 12.8 / 3.9 0.58 1500 16.8 / 5.130.44 1800 18.6 / 5.670.40 2000 19.6 / 6.0 0.37 2500 22.2 / 6.8 0.33 5800 35.5 / 10.8 0.21 http://www.altelicon.com/pdfs/altelicon_coax_cable.pdf Download Specification Comparison Sheet for all Altelicon Coax Cables http://www.altelicon.com/pdfs/altelicon_coax_cable.pdf http://www.altelicon.com/pdfs/altelicon_coax_cable.pdf
RE: [Repeater-Builder] What is a good Controller for the Kenwood TKR750 Repeater?
Rob, Why not use the TKR-750's built-in controller? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:38 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] What is a good Controller for the Kenwood TKR750 Repeater? Hello all, my first post here , did a search on contoller for the tkr750, and nothing came up! ANyone have a suggestion? thanks rob
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Converting the GE MastrII Intercom switch to a Disable switch.
Perhaps I should have used the word seconds instead of minutes. In my mind, pressing and releasing a button or switch is more positive (instantaneous) than disconnecting and reconnecting a cable plug. I never like to perform troubleshooting by manipulating connectors, and I suspect that that is Kevin's point. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 9:52 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Converting the GE MastrII Intercom switch to a Disable switch. On Dec 6, 2007, at 9:15 PM, Eric Lemmon wrote: Nate, I think what Kevin means is that a quick and easy test for desense in a repeater is to look at the service monitor's SINAD meter change during the instant (not several minutes later) that the transmitter is disabled. If the SINAD meter jumps 5 dB higher when the transmitter is turned off, you've got 5 dB of desense. Pardon? I don't understand. What about any of my techniques would cause the transmitter to stay on for minutes? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:nate%40natetech.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Audio/squelch question (with audio sample)
Jeff, I agree with Jim's assessment, that the popping might be due to an over-deviated signal coming into the repeater. Many imported radios built for the Amateur Radio market are delivered with the CTCSS deviation much too hot and causing the total deviation (voice plus tone) to exceed 5 kHz. The EIA/TIA recommended CTCSS deviation is 500 Hz for a 5 kHz channel, and 400 Hz for a 4 kHz channel. Some Ham-grade radios have CTCSS deviation as high as 1500 Hz, and it usually is not adjustable. The deviation limiter squashes the combined audio on voice peaks, distorting the CTCSS tone to where the repeater thinks the tone has gone away and mutes the audio. This effect is more pronounced in some repeaters than in others, and it matters if the repeater's receive bandwidth is not centered on the channel. Some repeater receivers have modulation acceptance that is relatively narrow, meaning that an over-deviated signal can get squashed in the receiver and thereby distorted- resulting again in muting of the receiver. I have no experience with Kendecomm repeaters, so I am simply grasping at straws here. I suggest using a known-accurate service monitor to verify that the Kendecomm receiver is centered on the channel and can demodulate a standard signal deviated 5 kHz with a 1 kHz tone without distortion. Once you have established that the receiver is handling the RF properly, you can then evaluate the squelch action. From your description of the problem, it seems as if there are two squelch circuits trying to operate at the same time. Make certain that the original Kendecomm squelch circuit is completely disabled. One final thought: Does the Kendecomm repeater have narrow-band capability? If it does, and the receiver expects a signal that is deviated 2.5 kHz, a 5 kHz signal will be severely distorted. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:32 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Audio/squelch question (with audio sample) Jeff Lehmann wrote: Hi everyone, I'm brand new to the group, but I'm getting into a big project trying to improve one of our local repeaters. It's a Kendecom KRP-5000. It'd been having a horrible problem with popping on mobile signals, just about making the machine useless with signals that were not full quieting. Our first step was to install the RLC-MOT squelch board. This has made a big improvment with weaker mobile and handheld signals, letting them hold the machine open right down to the noise. However, it's still popping on strong, usually mobile signals. I'm wondering if we need to change how the audio is wired. Right now, it has the stock CAT-1000 controller in it, but we have an Arcom RC-210 ordered. The audio for the PL board was not coming off the discriminator from the factory. It appeared to be wired to the same tap that sends the audio to the controller. This was not disc. audio, because we originally tried the RLC-MOT on it, and it did not work. We found the disc. audio, and ran it to the RLC-MOT, but kept the actual audio wired the way it was. We changed the COR to come from the RLC-MOT instead of where it was originally. I'm wondering if when I start wiring the Arcom, if I should run the disc. audio right to the Arcom, and use the de-emphasis in the controller? I'm also planning to change the PL board's audio to disc as well. The popping does still happen with the tone is turned off though. Here's what the machine sounds like now, with a reasonable strong mobile signal, with the popping sound happening several times. http://home.comcast.net/~n1zzn/14718popping.mp3 http://home.comcast.net/~n1zzn/14718popping.mp3 Should I expect this to go away when I switch to the Arcom? Thanks and 73, Doesn't sound like it has anything to do with the controller or how the audio is tapped. Either the user is over deviating (VERY likely), or the detector in your receiver isn't aligned right, which is also very common. It IS clipping on voice peaks! I also hear some distortion in the audio, which leads me to the detector alignment. Put a scope on the audio going into the RLC-MOT, and tune the detector coils for both max level and the CLEANEST sine wave you can get with a strong signal modulated with a 1KHz tone at 3KHz deviation. If it won't go near perfect, it means the receiver has issues, which on that brand, wouldn't surprise me very much. I'm sure there's a more detailed/better explanation on the RB site somewhere too. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Radius
Mick, Please advise us what the Model Number is of your radio. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mickupi Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 6:22 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Radius I have acquired a Motorola Radius. It is on the VHF low band at 46.120 MHz. Does anyone if it is realistic to convert it to the 6 meter amateur frequencies? Thanks, Mick
[Repeater-Builder] GE MVP Manual Scans now Available
Skipp, I hope you're not spending time duplicating the LBIs that are already available on the GE Master Index here: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-master-list.html At last count, there are 35 GE LBIs that are specific to the MVP mobile radio, that have already been scanned. The very few that we don't have available for download are mostly for oddball bands like the 44 and 45 (66-88 MHz), plus a few in the 92 (800 MHz) band. The demand for LBIs in those bands is almost non-existent. Here's a list of MVP LBIs that we'd like to get hard copies of for full-page scanning: 30150 30161 30162 30513 30514 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:36 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] GE MVP Manual Scans now Available GE MVP Manual Scans now Available Standing at the copy machine is like watching paint dry... really no fun. But within the last week, three people have asked me for the GE MVP Manual Copies I have listed (but not yet available) on the sonic web page. So I did the deed and the GE MVP Manual Scans are now made. I've sent copies of the scans to Mike and Kevin for the RB GE Pages. If you really can't wait you could email me direct and I'll forward copies direct (as time allows). cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE MVP Manual Scans now Available
Skipp, Right at the beginning of the GE Master Index, you'll find Publication Indexes PC08 for the Custom MVP Mobile and PC15 for the 5 watt LPI (Low Power Industrial) MVP mobile. In each of these documents one can find a nearly-complete listing of the LBIs that apply to each model MVP. I use the term nearly-complete because the LBI listed therein may be a cover sheet of two pages that lists three or more other LBIs- which are not identified in the Publication Index. A long time ago, Mike Morris and I decided to break each of the module LBIs away from the cover sheets, to avoid having the same LBI duplicated in several places. For example, the same receiver-mixer is used in Mastr II, Mastr Executive II, and Custom MVP radios; there's no point in sticking the same LBI with each cover sheet, and it's a huge waste of server space. I'm curious- what is the model or combination number of the 5-watt MVP repeater you're documenting? You have provided the radio community a great service with your scanned manuals. Thanks to you, I was able to find the exact manual for a TPL amplifier that I bought NOS from a broker. You get a gold star for all your hard work! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 3:30 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE MVP Manual Scans now Available Hi Eric, Some times the obvious things are not... Three or four people have asked me about the MVP Manual download on my sonic page. I had not completed the manual scan so the link doesn't work... yet. I sent a few of the people over to the RB Web Page to look and no one reported finding the desired MVP manual. I myself also took a brief tour of the GE Page and of course missed the LBI Section. So to complete my requirements I scanned the UHF MVP 5-Watt Repeater Manual I have here. I just went over to see the page(s) you mentioned below. Sometimes different web page formats are not so easy for some of us to sort through quickly. I see a lot of manual downloads listed but it's still not intuitive for myself and a few others to find what we were searching for. (Sorry MSF-Bob, I did try) Anyway, what I scanned is the 5 Watt MVP Repeater Manual into easily sorted sections. Working from Memory GEMVP1 MVP Main Manual Front Section GEMVP2 MVP Exciter and 5 watt rf power amplifier GEMVP3 MVP Receiver GEMVP4 MVP Receiver and Misc Options GEMVP5 SAS Board Some extra pages were scanned onto the end of the GEMVP5 file so make a note the last few pages of that file are to be discarded. Also some scans of the Parkinson MVP Repeater Controller and matching Phelps Dodge (flat-pack) Duplexer. I support any means folks can use to obtain the information they're looking for. cheers, skipp Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Skipp, I hope you're not spending time duplicating the LBIs that are already available on the GE Master Index here: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/lbi-master-list.html At last count, there are 35 GE LBIs that are specific to the MVP mobile radio, that have already been scanned. The very few that we don't have available for download are mostly for oddball bands like the 44 and 45 (66-88 MHz), plus a few in the 92 (800 MHz) band. The demand for LBIs in those bands is almost non-existent. Here's a list of MVP LBIs that we'd like to get hard copies of for full-page scanning: 30150 30161 30162 30513 30514 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:36 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] GE MVP Manual Scans now Available GE MVP Manual Scans now Available Standing at the copy machine is like watching paint dry... really no fun. But within the last week, three people have asked me for the GE MVP Manual Copies I have listed (but not yet available) on the sonic web page. So I did the deed and the GE MVP Manual Scans are now made. I've sent copies of the scans to Mike and Kevin for the RB GE Pages. If you really can't wait you could email me direct and I'll forward copies direct (as time allows). cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wilson PSC-1422 Power Supply
Doug, I pointed you to the RELM home page to use the Contact link to get to their Customer Service or Parts Department, and ask them about getting a manual. It's a long shot, but you won't know unless you ask for assistance. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 10:42 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Cc: Eric Lemmon Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wilson PSC-1422 Power Supply Didn't see anything on the Relm site, but in reading the previous posts on the PSC 1422 I noticed that I have the same combonation of PS, Rptr. and PA. I'm familiar with the Regency U10 10w and U15 15w rptrs. so again I am assuming that the U01 is a 1w output and the ACU45 PA is approx. 45w to 50w output. But if there is any one that has any info on this combination of components I would appreciate them sharing it with the group. -- Doug N3DAB/WPRX486/WPJL709 Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net wrote: = Doug, Wilson and Regency products are now serviced by RELM/BK. Go here for their home page: www.relmwireless.com Most outsourced power supplies used in the two-way radio industry are made by Astron, Duracomm, or Samlex. Perhaps RELM can provide more information. Also, Steve Bosshard, NU5D, posted a message some time ago about picking up a couple of PSC-1422 power supplies at a hamfest. Perhaps Steve can help. Steve? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of n3dab Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:34 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wilson PSC-1422 Power Supply Does anyone have any information on a Wilson PSC-1422 power supply ? This is a rack mount un metered unit and has the Astron name stamped on all (3) of the SCR's. I am curious about the max. and continuous duty rating for this unit. and amybe a schematic of it if it varies very much from a similar sized Astron PS. I'm guessing it 22-25 Amps max. and 14-15 Amps continuous. Does this sound right ? Thanks Doug N3DAB
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MSR2000
Ron, There are several different service manuals for the MSR2000, depending upon frequency of operation and model. Which one(s) do you need? Moreover, what is the model number of your MSR2000 station, and what options does it have? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 11:19 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSR2000 hi all, Looking for a maintance manual for a MSR2000. Anyone have one they are willing to part with??? 73, ron, n9ee/r
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wilson PSC-1422 Power Supply
Doug, Wilson and Regency products are now serviced by RELM/BK. Go here for their home page: www.relmwireless.com Most outsourced power supplies used in the two-way radio industry are made by Astron, Duracomm, or Samlex. Perhaps RELM can provide more information. Also, Steve Bosshard, NU5D, posted a message some time ago about picking up a couple of PSC-1422 power supplies at a hamfest. Perhaps Steve can help. Steve? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n3dab Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 9:34 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wilson PSC-1422 Power Supply Does anyone have any information on a Wilson PSC-1422 power supply ? This is a rack mount un metered unit and has the Astron name stamped on all (3) of the SCR's. I am curious about the max. and continuous duty rating for this unit. and amybe a schematic of it if it varies very much from a similar sized Astron PS. I'm guessing it 22-25 Amps max. and 14-15 Amps continuous. Does this sound right ? Thanks Doug N3DAB
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000
Ron, The C73GSB-3145B is a fully-optionable, intermittent-duty base station that should be equipped with the TLD2532A 110 watt PA and the TPN1191A power supply. The number TRN5299 identifies a chassis assembly, not a power amplifier, and TPN1189 identifies an auxiliary regulator chassis, not the power supply. I thought that Micor stations were hard to figure out, with multiple part numbers appearing on many components, but the MSR2000 stations are worse. The power amplifier alone has separate numbers for the heat sink, the chassis, the power control board, the PA board, and the mounting brackets. In some PAs, there are frequency-sensitive modules like the harmonic filter that are buried inside, and these sometimes must be modified for optimum operation in the Amateur 2m band. The two manuals you need are the 6881061E50 VHF Base and Repeater Stations Service Manual, and the 6881061E40 Control and Audio Instruction Manual. Alas, the E50 manual is out of print, but the E40 manual is still available from Motorola Parts for about $60. I have added the E50 scanning task to my ever-growing to do list. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 6:52 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com; skipp025 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 Skipp Eric, I forgot one important thing obviously. It is a VHF MSR2000 Model C73GSB-3145B which is a 110 W base station. Included is TRN5299 PA, TPN1189 power supply and TRN5080 METER. It is on 154/159 MHz. I plan on using for Ham band and also add UHF receiver for control since it has slot for second receiver. I am assuming the second receiver will just plug in. Any help or source for the manuals would be appreciated. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:skipp025%40yahoo.com Date: 2007/11/30 Fri PM 08:09:48 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 The normal route is two manuals to service the Standard US Version MSR-2000. One manual is the back-plane and modules (cards). The second manual is the RF Portions with the Green Banded Manual (book) being the VHF information and the Blue Banded book being for UHF. However, I believe the VHF RF Manual (only) has the power supply information (not in the UHF RF Manual) but I could be wrong or drunk (again). Any time you vary from the generic US MSR-2000 the Manual becomes an as-built binder. Major changes for non US MSR-2000 base repeater stations are the options, modules and frequency ranges. First to mind is the 40 watt Canadian UHF PA with the matching mitrek/consolette power supply. Other modules not covered in the standard control and audio (module and back-plane) book are often in the as-built manuals... ie the CW ID'er, Alarm and other specialized function cards/modules. Mucho fun to figure out the first time... cheers, s. Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ron, There are several different service manuals for the MSR2000, depending upon frequency of operation and model. Which one(s) do you need? Moreover, what is the model number of your MSR2000 station, and what options does it have? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 11:19 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MSR2000 hi all, Looking for a maintance manual for a MSR2000. Anyone have one they are willing to part with??? 73, ron, n9ee/r
RE: [Repeater-Builder] R1225 Repeater
Mark, Are we talking about the R1225 transceiver itself, or is the repeater actually a GR1225, RKR1225, or a GR400 or GR500 X-Pand repeater? If one of the latter, the duplexer is usually a mobile notch duplexer with six helical resonators in a one-inch-thick package. Does your R1225 repeater use such a duplexer, or is it a full-size BpBr unit with large cavity filters? When a service tech works mostly with BpBr cavities, it is a common error to tune the screws for the pass frequency instead of the notch frequency. A local hospital had a GR1225 repeater come back from a radio shop with the TX and RX cables reversed, and it wouldn't work very well. It tested fine on the service monitor, but the tech got confused about the HIGH and LOW labels on the notch duplexer. The ports should have been labeled REJECT HIGH and REJECT LOW, with the former going to the TX output on the R1225 and the latter going to the RX input on the R1225. If the R1225 is a high-power (25-50 watt) model, it is possible that operating the transceiver with a mis-tuned notch duplexer can burn out the protection diodes in the RX front end. There is no tune-up required on the R1225. The RX front end is varactor-tuned by the CPU to optimize the RX sensitivity. The R1225 service manual is 6880905Z53, about $13, and is a must-have document. If your repeater is a GR1225, you also need the 6880904Z90 manual, also about $13. If your repeater is an RKR1225, you also need the 6880907Z10 manual, about $36. Finally, if your repeater is a GR400/GR500 X-Pand model, you also need the 6880905Z54 manual, about $13. Many early GR1225 repeaters were shipped with a duplexer harness made of RG58 single-shielded cable. I was setting up one such GR1225 on a VHF repeater pair with a 5.26 MHz split, and I was measuring almost 12 dB of desense. I cured the problem completely by making up a new harness using RG-400/U double-silver-shielded cable and the proper connectors on the ends- no adapters. That repeater is still in service after three years with no down time, but is being replaced with a new MTR2000 station. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n9wys Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] R1225 Repeater A friend of mine has a Motorola R1225 repeater that is as deaf as a fence post. We've tried re-tuning the original duplexer and replacing it with another known-good duplexer. We even tried separating the antennas, although we could only get about 30' of vertical separation between the two. Nothing seems to work - and at 150mW on an HT, I can only get about 30' away from the repeater antenna before I cannot access it. 4W will give me a range of about 100 yds. Does anyone have the manual for this machine? If so, I'd be much obliged for a copy of any receiver tune-up procedures. I hate to think this thing is junk. Thanks in advance, Mark - N9WYS
[Repeater-Builder] TIA and Motorola CTCSS Tone Codes
Here is a list of the 39 official standard CTCSS Code Frequencies, as published in ANSI/TIA-603-C-2004, along with three additional non-standard codes used by Motorola and some other manufacturers: TIA/EIA MOTOROLA 67.0XZ 69.3WZ 71.9XA 74.4WA 77.0XB 79.7WB 82.5YZ 85.4YA 88.5YB 91.5ZZ 94.8ZA 97.4ZB 100.0 1Z 103.5 1A 107.2 1B 110.9 2Z 114.8 2A 118.8 2B 123.0 3Z 127.3 3A 131.8 3B 136.5 4Z 141.3 4A 146.2 4B 151.4 5Z 156.7 5A 162.2 5B 167.9 6Z 173.8 6A 179.9 6B 186.2 7Z 192.8 7A 203.5 M1 206.5 8Z (Non-standard) 210.7 M2 218.1 M3 225.7 M4 229.1 9Z (Non-standard) 233.6 M5 241.8 M6 250.3 M7 254.1 0Z (Non-standard) 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
RE: [Repeater-Builder] HLN3948 Schematic
Eric, The HLN3948 is the basic repeater controller that is in the HLN R*I*C*K (Repeater Communications Interface Kit), which is used to connect two GM300 mobile radios and create a GR300 Repeater. Other radios can be used with the appropriate cables and changes in jumpers and I/O functions. It does not contain an ID function, so that needs to be added. The complete service manual is available from Motorola Parts as part number 6880901Z79, for about $5. Additional information that is very useful is found in the GR300 Service Manual 6880902Z73, for about $19. For more information, including the schematic diagram of the R*I*C*K, go here: www.batlabs.com/rick.html 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric M. Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 3:59 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] HLN3948 Schematic I am looking for a schematic for a Motorola HLN 3948 repeater controller. This is a small controller that can be placed between two radios in order to make a repeater. Eric.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MTR2000
That is partly correct. The presence of fans does indicate that the station is in the 75-100 watt class, but it tells you nothing about the frequency of operation. Here is a list of fan-equipped MTR2000 power amplifiers: CLN1224/TTD1791 132-154 MHz CLN1225/TTD1792 150-174 MHz CLN1228/TTX1010 403-435 MHz CLN1229/TTX1020 435-470 MHz CLN1232/TTF1601 850-870 MHz CLF1260/TTF1602 935-941 MHz One or both of the above numbers will appear on a label visible from the front of the station. It is not possible to operate any of the above PAs outside of the stated band edges. More information is here: www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/mtr2k/mtr-2000-frus.html 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of barrypal Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:44 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MTR2000 I have been told that if there are cooling fans on both sides of the repeaters heat sinks it's the 25-100 unit(uhf). Is this correct. No cooling fans would indicate 40 watt units or just remote receivers.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MTR2000
The MTR2000 contains a very capable controller which includes the power-reduction feature when on battery backup, along with an optional alarm tone to advise users of the condition. The programming software package contains a fairly good tutorial about how to program the station. I will gladly answer any specific questions. I make no secret of my disdain for bells and whistles like clever courtesy tones, autopatch, and voice announcements. I work primarily in commercial and public-safety radio systems where such features have no place. In my limited experience (40+ years) the majority of equipment failures have been in the add-ons, not in the commercial equipment. However, as Patrick Swayze said in the movie Roadhouse, opinions vary. That was a great movie, by the way. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of barrypal Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MTR2000 Thanks Eric. Can you refer me to anywhere on this site that might contain all the features of the internal controller? Screen shots or text.. If using an external controller on the MTR2000 one might not have ability to reduce the power setting under battery operation unless the external could do that or is that inherent in the system regardless of controller? We have ordered from HCI our vhf MTR2000 along with the Argus battery revert.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 19 rack positioning question
Barry, With all due respect, I think the appropriate response to your statement is: Not necessarily. The typical Motorola Micor 100 watt repeater station will have the duplexer at the very bottom of the cabinet, with the power supply just above it. Then follows the unified chassis, and finally the 100 watt PA at the top. While your desire for cooling fans is well-intended, I daresay that the vast majority of 100 watt Micor stations- many of which remain in service today- are cooled solely by convection, and they seem to survive without fans. Let us keep in mind that fans do not cool anything; they simply move air around. If the ambient temperature in an uncooled transmitter shack is 120 degrees Fahrenheit, the fan will simply raise the temperature inside the cabinet to 120 degrees F- which might be higher than the temperature inside the cabinet if no fans were used. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry C' Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 3:37 PM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 19 rack positioning question Just remember heat rises so the hottest items usually go high in the stack , assuming you have a top mounted fan. To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:50:41 + Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19 rack positioning question In the sprit of the only stupid question is the one that goes un- asked. Here goes: I have a Micor UHF repeater mounted in a 46 x 19 cabinet. It is now a ham band repeater that I have added a new NHRC-5 controller and IRLP interface. The modules are mounted as follows: Top: Custom built 12V PA cooling fan rack controlled by the NHRC-5 aligned with the top door vents. 75W PA Transmitter/ Antenna Network Control module (mostly empty now replaced with NHRC-5 and mods from this site) Receiver module Massive TPN1110B power supply 4 space Bottom: WaCom duplexer cannisters (4) I would like to put the power supply on the bottom so that it aligns with the vents in the cabinet doors and I can add some fans to cool the transformer (you can cook a grilled cheeze sandwitch on it) An added plus is that it will make the cabinet more stable with the weight on the bottom. Is there any issues mounting the duplexers between the receiver and the power supply with the powersupply on the bottom. I hate to move things around and have problems. And yes I will get help to lower the power supply and save some digits. I know the best solution is to replace the powersupply with a more modern one. I plan to do this when funds are better. When this time comes who makes the best replacement powersupply unit? (ok two Questions) Thanks gang Bill N5ZTW Sell your car for just $30 at CarPoint.com.au. It's simple! http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide% 2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2F ai%5F859641_t=762955845_r=tig_OCT07_m=EXT
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Receiver overload
The instructions for constructing a simple, but very effective, stub filter are found in General Electric Datafile Bulletin 10002-1, available for download here: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/datafile-bulletin/df-10002-01.pdf I used the piston variable capacitor out of a bad channel element for tuning. Worked like a champ! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:58 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Receiver overload At 09:46 PM 11/22/07, you wrote: --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , David Epley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is your opinion on a ¼ wave open stub installed in the receiver side cut for 104.9?
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: AM interference on long cable run
Jim, I think you have found the source of your interference- the grounded side of the twisted pair! Grounding either side of what should be a balanced pair turns it into an antenna. A good case in point: Many years ago, the local cable company hooked up a video camera and tapped into the sound system at the City Council chambers, so that the citizens could watch and hear what was going on by watching the public-access channel at home. The problem was that there was a very prominent 60 Hz buzz in the audio. Dozens of citizens called in to complain about the hum, but the cable company's engineer tried every trick in the book (according to him) to eliminate the hum, without success. It turns out that the audio originated at the Bogen PA amplifier, and the cable guy simply put an RCA audio plug on the end of his twisted pair, which meant that one side of the circuit was grounded at the source end. Even though the load end at the cable company was fed into a balanced input on the Blonder-Tongue audio channel modulator, the imbalance caused by the grounded conductor in the telco leased line made a nice antenna which picked up the AC hum by induction from the overbuilt power lines. I suggested to the engineer that he purchase and install a Bogen WMT transformer at the PA amplifier. He did, and the audio became hum-free. He was very embarrassed to report that the instruction manual for the Bogen PA amplifier contained a bold-print admonition that any input to or output from the amplifier that was connected to distant equipment should be made over balanced twisted pairs with a WMT (or equal) transformer at each end. He didn't read the manual first. Duh! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 11:04 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: AM interference on long cable run Skip, I did have transformer coupling on the audio lines out at the repeater with both sides of the twisted pair isolated from ground, but did not try putting transformers in the line back at the computer. That would certainly be easy enough to do if I ever hook it up again. One side of the twisted pair was hooked to the ground of the computer. (The repeater cabnet is bolted to the side of the tower out in the middle of a pasture) We have a wireless ISP at this site, and the ISP provider decided to take away the public IP address and assign us a private IP address, which no one can reach from the internet. We can do everything we need to do on the internet, but packets that were not asked for cannot find their way back to the router here . UDP packets in particular have no way to reach us. 73 - Jim W5ZIT
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Antenna Choice
Derek, First and foremost, choose an omnidirectional antenna if the repeater is centrally located, but consider an offset pattern antenna if the repeater is at one side or end of the desired coverage area. Second, don't go overboard on the antenna gain, lest the pattern go over the heads of your intended users. Dipole antennas often perform much better than collinear fiberglass antennas in this regard. It is an excellent idea to use the lowest-loss feedline you can afford, and if 1.625 Heliaz is available, use it. My rule of thumb is to use whatever feedline has less than 1.0 dB of loss at the highest frequency used by the repeater. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Derek Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 2:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Antenna Choice I'm looking for input on what kind of antenna to use for several 440 MHz amateur repeaters. Background: Suburban area surrounding metropolitan city of about 700,000. HAGL for antennas range from 260' to 320' on 400' and 500' towers. I'm looking to maximize mobile and portable input, even possibly looking to use 1-5/8 heliax as I recently installed this size hardline on my repeater and have been very satisfied with the results. I've used the DB-408 antenna and am happy with its performance, but am wondering about significant difference in using a DB-420 for future repeaters. Also considering the RFS 1151 (Tessco # 435830) fiberglass antenna. It is tuned for 440-450 MHz and has 8dB gain, but I've heard some say fiberglass is not the way to go for repeaters. Any thoughts are appreciated. Derek
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload
David, My first move would be to add a bandpass cavity in front of the receiver. All cabling between the receiver and the RX output of the duplexer should be double-shielded, with proper connectors on each end- no adapters, and no nickel-plated connectors. The mini-UHF connector going to the MaxTrac should be the only exception, but it's okay if very tight. If that doesn't cure the problem, then enclose the receiver in a shielded box, and bring the signal and power leads out through feedthrough capacitors. The MaxTrac radio has a lot of plastic in its case, and is susceptible to signal intrusion. The best shielded box to use is a die-cast aluminum enclosure from Hammond. I have assumed that the FM transmitter carrier is pure, without harmonics or spurious artifacts. If the FM transmitter is radiating on a frequency close to your desired input frequency, the above fixes may not have any effect. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Epley Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 7:02 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload The only transmitter that is on all the time is the FM broadcast My tx plays no part in the noise From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:55 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload Can you give us a list of all the transmitters that are at/near the site? Ones that are on the air all the time such as the FM station. Does your transmitter have to be keyed to get the desense? 73, Joe, K1ike David Epley wrote: I have a repeater receiver overload problem I am trying to cure. The repeater is a 900mhz 927.7125/902.7125. There is an FM broadcast station 100 yards away 104.9mhz. The repeater works fine at another site. My transmitter is a Motorola Purc 5000 running 75 watts the receiver is a converted maxtrac 800mhz radio. Duplexers are Telwave BpBr 4 cavity. I have 10 to 12 db degradation when plugged into 3 different antennas on the tower. When I use a 900mhz dish antenna pointed away from broadcast tower I only have 3 db degradation. I have tried 3 different maxtrac receivers, added 2 more BpBr cavities in the receiver side and used 3 pole filters in the receivers with no improvement. Today I looked at the signal level getting to the receiver at 104.9. To my surprise I was getting -8 dbm at the receiver. I believe this level is overloading the front end of my repeater. I was wondering if a stub cut for the broadcast frequency would work. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. David Epley, N9CZV Winchester, Indiana
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload
If you want to try constructing a stub filter to notch out the FM carrier, look here: www.repeater-builder.com/ge/datafile-bulletin/df-10002-01.pdf 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Epley Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:42 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload I have tried all the above. I even change out the mini UHF connector to an N female when I use the maxtrac for repeater use. All cables are ¼ hardline. When I use a 900mhz dish mounted at the same level as my primary antenna but pointed away from the FM Broadcast tower I have considerably less degradation. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:10 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload David, My first move would be to add a bandpass cavity in front of the receiver. All cabling between the receiver and the RX output of the duplexer should be double-shielded, with proper connectors on each end- no adapters, and no nickel-plated connectors. The mini-UHF connector going to the MaxTrac should be the only exception, but it's okay if very tight. If that doesn't cure the problem, then enclose the receiver in a shielded box, and bring the signal and power leads out through feedthrough capacitors. The MaxTrac radio has a lot of plastic in its case, and is susceptible to signal intrusion. The best shielded box to use is a die-cast aluminum enclosure from Hammond. I have assumed that the FM transmitter carrier is pure, without harmonics or spurious artifacts. If the FM transmitter is radiating on a frequency close to your desired input frequency, the above fixes may not have any effect. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of David Epley Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 7:02 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload The only transmitter that is on all the time is the FM broadcast My tx plays no part in the noise From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:55 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload Can you give us a list of all the transmitters that are at/near the site? Ones that are on the air all the time such as the FM station. Does your transmitter have to be keyed to get the desense? 73, Joe, K1ike David Epley wrote: I have a repeater receiver overload problem I am trying to cure. The repeater is a 900mhz 927.7125/902.7125. There is an FM broadcast station 100 yards away 104.9mhz. The repeater works fine at another site. My transmitter is a Motorola Purc 5000 running 75 watts the receiver is a converted maxtrac 800mhz radio. Duplexers are Telwave BpBr 4 cavity. I have 10 to 12 db degradation when plugged into 3 different antennas on the tower. When I use a 900mhz dish antenna pointed away from broadcast tower I only have 3 db degradation. I have tried 3 different maxtrac receivers, added 2 more BpBr cavities in the receiver side and used 3 pole filters in the receivers with no improvement. Today I looked at the signal level getting to the receiver at 104.9. To my surprise I was getting -8 dbm at the receiver. I believe this level is overloading the front end of my repeater. I was wondering if a stub cut for the broadcast frequency would work. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. David Epley, N9CZV Winchester, Indiana
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom duplexer
Although the outside dimensions were the same between Wacom WP-641 cavities for commercial frequencies and those for 2m frequencies, the harness and stub lengths were customized for the specific operating frequencies. My recommendation is to ship the duplexer to Telewave for conversion and tuning to your 2m frequencies. Telewave has the know-how and the equipment to perform this task properly. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chappy Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:11 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom duplexer I have come across a Wacom 641 retired from commercial use. It was factory tuned to 153.905 / 158.805 MHz. Will it tune down to 146.34/94? Were the notch stubs all the same, or are were there different lengths of the brass tube, center rod, or the plastic insert for differerent frequency ranges? Any other advice? kd4ss - Glasgow, KY
RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload
David, This is definitely an interesting thread! I cannot think of a more suitable topic to discuss in this forum. You mentioned in your original post that you are using a converted 800 MHz MaxTrac mobile radio as your 900 MHz receiver. Could you please elaborate a bit on what you did in this conversion? Also, please advise what model number of MaxTrac you began with. There may be some aspect of the conversion that makes your receive radio especially vulnerable. If you have already tried bandpass cavity filters on the receiver input, with the radio inside a shielded box and all penetrations suitably filtered, and not seen any reduction in desense, then the offending signal must be on or very close to your desired receive frequency. That brings us back to a spurious or harmonic signal being generated by the FM broadcast transmitter, or perhaps there is an IM product being created between the FM station carrier and another transmitter that has yet to be identified. It may be instructive to use a good (i. e., well-shielded) spectrum analyzer with a bandpass cavity on its input to filter out everything but signals very close to your 900 MHz input frequency. This technique once helped me track down a alarm system motion detector that was operating around 900 MHz. Some spectrum analyzers are poorly shielded, and are practically useless when immersed in a high-RF environment. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Epley Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:17 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload It is linked but there is only an STL link receiver at the site From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n9wys Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:08 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload Is the FM broadcast studio located at the transmitter site, or is it linked? If the studio is remote to the transmitter, it could be a harmonic of the studio uplink freq. But now I:m shooting in the dark. Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of David Epley Analyzer was connected to the receiver port of the duplexers. The noise floor looked good. The amount of degradation does not seem to change. There are 900mhz pager transmitters on site but none are on full time and I do not see any change as each one transmits. I can also have my transmitter turned off and the degradation is still here. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Ron Wright David, Your problem might be harmonic related. Might do some calculator work. I can see no muliple of 104.9 related to your 2 frequencies or IF related. There are other 900 MHz stuff around. Would be good to get a spectrum analyzer on your receiver port, but know spectrum analyzers are not easy to come by. Might be noise floor emissions from the FM station which could be on your receiver input. Now this one would be a real problem. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: David Epley Date: 2007/11/22 Thu AM 07:32:46 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Receiver overload I just tried a pair of Celwave 8 inch bandpass cavities with no noticeable improvement. David N9CZV From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Jim Brown David,try using one or two band pass only cavaties in the receive side instead of the BpBr type. The BpBr filters often do not discriminate against signals far off the pass frequency, and you may not be getting enough rejection out of your input cavities. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- David Epley wrote: I have a repeater receiver overload problem I am trying to cure. The repeater is a 900mhz 927.7125/902.7125. There is an FM broadcast station 100 yards away 104.9mhz. The repeater works fine at another site. My transmitter is a Motorola Purc 5000 running 75 watts the receiver is a converted maxtrac 800mhz radio. Duplexers are Telwave BpBr 4 cavity. I have 10 to 12 db degradation when plugged into 3 different antennas on the tower. When I use a 900mhz dish antenna pointed away from broadcast tower I only have 3 db degradation. I have tried 3 different maxtrac receivers, added 2 more BpBr cavities in the receiver side and used 3 pole filters in the receivers with no improvement. Today I looked at the signal level getting to the receiver at 104.9. To my surprise I was getting -8 dbm at the receiver. I believe this level is overloading the front end of my repeater. I was wondering if a stub cut for the broadcast frequency would work. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. David Epley, N9CZV Winchester, Indiana
RE: [Repeater-Builder] A couple of questions
All good info, Nate, but your comment about turning down the power may lead Joe down the wrong path. Some mobile radios in the 50 watt class, especially those that use RF power modules, may burn up if run for long periods at low power. Yes, that is what I meant! I learned this lesson the hard way, when a Yaesu FT-2500M that I had in packet service died due to a toasted RF module. Because I had a hilltop site and a DB224 antenna, I found that the lowest setting of 5 watts was more than enough power for solid contacts. The other settings were 12, 25, and 50 watts. A new PA module set me back about $85, and I followed the instructions exactly when replacing it. But before putting the radio back into service, I ran some careful bench tests. I was surprised to notice that, while the RF output power settings were almost exactly on the money at 5, 12, 25, and 50 watts into a dummy load, the DC input power to the radio did not track the output power- not even close! In fact, the DC input power at 5 watts output was about 85% of the DC input power at 50 watts output. And that is what toasted the PA module- the DC input power that was not converted into RF output power was, instead, heating the driver and the PA stages to destruction. In the case of the FT-2500M, it ran much cooler at the 25 watt setting than at the 5 watt setting. Now, I will admit that the designer of the FT-2500M probably cut some corners to meet a price target (where have we heard THAT before?) and the PA stage could be designed to be much more efficient at low power settings, and most commercial radios are far more robust in this area. My point is that some radios may exhibit symptoms more serious than spurious operation when set to power levels below the recommended level. Excessive heat generation within the PA at low output levels is seldom mentioned as an issue to watch. This is understandable, since conventional wisdom suggests that the PA should get hotter only when driven harder. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] A couple of questions On Nov 19, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Joe Landers wrote: Hey everyone I want to ask a couple of questions and see if I get any replies Replies, we can definitely do. Accurate replies require more than a mailing list, but there are some professionals here who'd love to quote you consulting fees. (GRIN - Not me.) I am getting ready to change a frequency in a mastr II and I got to buy some crystals Who is doing the best job at a resonable rate with them nowadays . Ahh, the never-ending question of the list. This question has reached religious status with many here. :-) The general consensus: The bigger shops (International Crystal, Bomar, and maybe West Crystal) have all gotten good comments from some here, and others want to throw their rocks they received out the window. Different people, different opinions. Search the list archives for chrystal and plan on about an hour of reading. The other debate is whether to rock your own ICOM's or send the entire ICOM in for temperature compensation. That topic is contentious and near-continuous here on the list also. There's also some good information on the topic on the repeater- builder website, don't forget to look there. My comments: For public-safety applications... just going by your signature line... Send the ICOM's into a reputable manufacturer for full compensation. If they don't offer it, skip them. Get a full temperature comp done and have them install the rock. Plan on multiple weeks to get them back. Lives are on the line. Also note that they will still age over the first year or so, keep the test gear handy and re-tune a couple of times when necessary. It would help if you could be more descriptive about which band-split Mastr II you're moving and to generally what frequency. There are some tricks with ordering crystals for ham use (if you're not staying within their rated frequency spectrum) where ordering high-side injection versus low-side injection is a good thing. Kevin and Scott at Repeater-Builder also have put out some information in the past about why certain frequencies in the ham bands don't work as well with low-side injection as you push the MASTR II out of band. All up on the RB site. Good engineering information. Secondly I have a radio I want to use for remote base use I need a mike plug diagram of pinout diagram to make a jack for the controller The radio info is as follows it is a maxon model 1520a mobile plate on back has p/n 717810 no serial number No clue on that particular radio, but if it can't handle 100% continuous-duty key-down, and it's going into public safety work -- forget it. Or turn it down to where it will survive a week's keydown into a dummy
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorhead (Motorola) 16 pin conn Maxtrac, GM300, M120 programming information?
Skipp, Although the majority of I/O pins can be assigned a la carte, some RSS includes pre-programmed assignments. These are simply defaults that can be edited to suit the particular application. Some pins can be assigned only to inputs, some only to outputs, and some can be either. The one rule that must be followed is that no two or more pins may be assigned the same function- other than null. The main drawback to the Motorola R.I.C.K is that it does not have ID capability. As for the availability of certain manuals for download, we try to avoid scanning and posting any copyrighted manuals while they are still in print- unless, of course, the copyright owner has granted explicit permission to post. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 2:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorhead (Motorola) 16 pin conn Maxtrac, GM300, M120 programming information? Motorhead (Motorola) 16 pin conn Maxtrac, GM300, M120, Radius programming information? Is there a place on the web that describes how the 16 pin jack on the above listed Motorola Mobile Radios can be assigned and for what I/O Functions. Some radios appear ready made for the rick controller and the many back-to-back cables sold on Ebay. But I'm sure not all the mentioned radios can be configured for repeater and link service. Some of the software for various radios comes up with an option section to assign the pins to various logic in/out functions. It all looks quite messy trying to figure out what every radio can do. Has someone already done the job and posted it on the web for public viewing? Thanks in advance for your replies. s.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-750 New PA Schematic
Gareth, The Service Manual for the old Kenwood TKR-750 Repeaters, those with serial numbers below 6071, is B51-8556-10, currently priced at $22.40. The Service Manual for the new TKR-750 version, with serial numbers above 6071, is B51-8556-20, currently priced at $32.67. Both manuals are available from Pacific Coast Parts, www.pacparts.com 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gareth Bennett Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:34 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] TKR-750 New PA Schematic Hi Group, Does anybody have an electronic copy of the new (Replacement) Power Amplifier for the TKR-750 that they could pass along? I'm having to swap out a failed early unit with a later retro board and discovered an extra 620pF chip capacitor supplied separately. Any ideas? All the best and thanks for reading _ Gareth Bennett
RE: [Repeater-Builder] GE MASTR II Station power supply
David, Stations with 75, 100, or 110 watt PAs should use a 30 ampere power supply, which will probably be one of the following: 19D430272G1 or G4 19E501149G1 Power supplies suitable for lower-power stations are rated at 18 amperes, and will probably be one of the following: 19D430272G2 or G5 19E501149G2 Technical information about the above power supplies is found on the Repeater-Builder GE Index site. Look in LBI-4806 and LBI-30867. One of the above numbers should appear somewhere on your power supply. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of drwoolweaver Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:21 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] GE MASTR II Station power supply Fellows: How can I tell if my VHF MASTR II Station power supply will run a 110 watt repeater? I understand that the lower powered repeaters had smaller supplies? Right? Are all the supplies the same? de David
[Repeater-Builder] GR300 Repeater Housing - Fan Replacement
Tony, I happen to have a GR300 repeater open on the bench. The fan in this unit is a Nidec Beta V device carrying several part numbers: TA450DC, B33211-63A, and 93014 MOT. It is rated at 12 VDC and 0.49 A. Curiously, none of the above part numbers are listed on MOL, and the GR300 service manual does not list the fan as a replacement part. Of major significance is the fact that the fan has been modified by Motorola to include a thermistor to sense the heat-sink temperature of the transmit radio. Although the fan was sitting in a cool environment, it ran at full speed when I applied 12 VDC to its power plug. Maybe there's a problem in this fan circuit! I think you should be able to replace the existing fan with a good-quality, low-EMI unit from Panasonic that runs at a very low speed. Otherwise, install a simple thermal switch on the transmit radio's heat sink to control the fan. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony L. Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:44 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [Repeater-Builder] GR300 Repeater Housing - Fan Replacement Has anyone here ever replaced a fan in a GR300 repeater housing? If so, how tough of a job is it, and is the fan stock? Thanks.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000
First of all, we need to know exactly which model and variant of MTR2000 station you have. The model number T5766A or T5644A that appears on the rear label only identifies the MTR2000 family, not what frequency band or power. Remove the black plastic front cover from the station, and carefully examine the white paper labels that are stuck on each module. As you face the front of the station, the power supply is the large finned casting on the left, and the RF power amplifier is the large finned casting on the right. Please take note if there are muffin fans on each side. In the middle of the station, between the two finned castings, there are three aluminum modules arranged in a U configuration. The horizontal module at the bottom of the U is the Station Control Module or SCM. This is the one with several RJ-type jacks and an open BNC jack. On the left of the U is the exciter module, and it has a coaxial cable running from its output jack over to the power amplifier input jack. On the right side of the U is the receiver module, and it has a coaxial cable running from its input jack back to the rear of the station to an N jack. Now, download the module list from the Repeater-Builder site here: www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/mtr2k/mtr-2000-frus.html Print out the above list, and find which modules are in your station. There may be some circuit boards plugged in at the middle of the station, inside the U, and you should make note of any labels or titles on them. When you have identified each module, please report back to the list with your findings, and we'll go from there. By the way, will your station be used for a commercial purpose, or will it be used for Amateur Radio or similar service? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of exodus Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 5:04 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000 Ladies and gentlemen, Does any body can give me advise on making my repeater MTR 2000 work better or any guidance that you may have...please dont use any code words or any number referance ie...you should use NFSL32564... coz I will not understand what you saying... I am dumb when it come to this kind of communication or should i just say that I am completely clueless on what I'm doing... so please break it down barney style... Anyway... here is what I got so for... I put up a 50ft tower with this 13 ft antenna that comes with that repeater MTR 2000. I programmed the device with two different freq and hoping that it will work once I plug this in... please advise... thank you very much... oh if you guys are wondering why I'm messing with this type of comm...I found it sitting in the corner and being used as a dust collector... so I decided to mess with it and make it work...
RE: [Repeater-Builder] GR1225
Steve, I have to wonder why anyone would want to hook up an external controller to an R1225 radio, when it has a very capable controller built-in. And that may be at the heart of your problem. I suspect that both the internal and the external controller are trying to do the same thing at the same time. If your RC-210 is supplying the PL tone, make certain that the R1225 is not also generating tone, and vice-versa. I'm not familiar with the RC-210, but check to see if it is equipped with a high-pass filter that blocks the PL tone from passing through the repeated audio chain. Even if the R1225 is not encoding tone, an over-deviated PL tone on a user input can sound quite raspy on the output if not filtered. As has been discussed many times on this list, the majority of Amateur-grade mobile and portable radios seem to be delivered with very hot CTCSS deviation- sometimes as high as 1500 Hz, when it really should be in the 500 to 750 Hz range. When the CTCSS tone generation circuit in a user radio produces other than a pure sine wave, the tone is so distorted that it sounds very loud and raspy. Try setting up a commercial-grade radio on your repeater pair to see if the buzz is still there. Also, try setting up both the controller and the R1225 as carrier squelch, and test again. Careful shielding of your audio cables and separation of power and signal grounds may help. Also, make certain that the R1225 is programmed as a Base Station, not a repeater. When an external controller is used, the R1225 must do nothing at all besides act as a full-duplex radio. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Allred Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 9:19 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] GR1225 Hi guys, I need your help on a UHF GR-1225 that has me baffled. There is a audio buzz (high pitched) that appears on the repeated signal. It is NOT on the hang time, so it's not comming from the power supply, controller (RC-210), exciter or PA.. It is only present when a signal is applyed to the input (service monitor or HT) of the receiver. Also, it was not there when i had it configured as a repeater using the internal GR1225 controller. Any ideas? Did i short out a wire and kill something in the audio section of the receiver or ? HELP! Thanks! Steve / K6SCA __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola CDM Programming/CTCSS
Devon, This is an easy one, but I need to see what you have programmed in order to suggest any changes. Please send me the codeplug file (it ends in .cpg) as it is now, and I'll see what has to be done. Also, please advise what version CPS you are using to program your radio. I don't want to make changes that are incompatible with your CPS version. Please respond off-list to mycall at verizon dot net. Moreover, if you program the CDM1250 to both encode and decode a PL tone, you don't need any other tone processing in the RC-210 controller. All you need to send to the radio is PTT and TX audio, and all you need from the radio is PL and CSQ Detect output logic and RX audio. And a signal ground, of course. Do not encode or decode CTCSS tone within the controller. If your user radios transmit Reverse Burst, this arrangement also eliminates those annoying squelch crashes. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Devon Racicot Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:17 AM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola CDM Programming/CTCSS Hello, I am trying to program a CDM1250 mobile for a link radio. All I want is for the radio to transmit a specific CTCSS tone and use tone squelch on receive. I don't need anything other than that and I can't for the life of me figure out the configuration in the CPS menu system. I am using an RC-210 controller and I have CTCSS encode to pin 12 of the CDM and decode to pin 14. Decode works great, but I can't get the signal encoded. Any help on the CDM programming would be appreciated. Thanks Devon Racicot VE5DWR
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem)
Nate, I appreciate your suggestions and comments, even though we have differing opinions about accuracy. In my area, starting an ARES or MARS net a minute or two early or late is not acceptable. We pride ourselves at beginning the net exactly on the second. After all, we're Hams, and we have access to WWV, don't we? I realize that some folks on this forum may be rolling their eyes at that statement, but hey- if sloppy operating is okay with them, let them do their thing! My obsession (yes, that's probably what it is!) with time accuracy began when I was Chief Engineer at WLRW, an FM station in Champaign-Urbana, Illinois, back in the late 60's. There was an IGM (International Good Music) automation machine that played music and ran commercials and IDs during the periods when live talent wasn't on the mike. The machine was designed to join the ABC Network News feed every hour on the hour, and being a minute early or late was not an option. The problem was that the AC power was locally generated, and was not synchronized to the national power grid as it is today. Even though the timer in the IGM controller made preparations to join the ABC Network exactly on the hour, the small variations in the AC power frequency caused the connection to be made several seconds off, either early or late, and the station owner was on my case constantly. He didn't want to spring for a Favag or Western Union precision time service, so I cooked up a crystal-controlled power oscillator to drive the IGM schedule timer with a TCXO-stabilized power source. It used a Hewlett-Packard oven time base at 10 MHz as a standard, making it easy to synch to WWV. It was a kluge, to be sure, but it worked. With this background information, perhaps you can understand that all I really need is some signal that occurs at exactly some point in time, every day, that can be used to synchronize a repeater controller automatically. Most real-time clock chips, including those made by Dallas Semiconductor, have sufficient short-term accuracy to flywheel through one day without getting more than a second off. If I can tweak such a clock once a day to bring it to the exact time, that is enough. I really don't want to add phone lines, IRLP links, wireless networks, or anything else to make this happen. It would be great if the next-generation repeater controllers had a BNC or TNC connector on the back labeled GPS antenna or WWVB antenna and all I needed to do was install one simple antenna, and the controller would know the time! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:57 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem) Eric Lemmon wrote: Don, The on-the-hour tone is an 800 ms burst of 1500 Hz. I have built a PLL 1500 Hz tone detector into a Hamtronics WWV receiver, and it works fine- giving me a relay contact closure exactly on the hour. Unfortunately, that would only allow me to jam-set the minutes and seconds to zero, and would not correct an hour error- such as when DST starts and stops. Eric, There are a number of easy WWV and GPS projects to drive things like Nixie clocks, etc... from simple microcontrollers like the Microchip PIC and Atmel AVR. Those are a good starting point for a project to set a controller's time remotely. Adding code to the microcontroller to then drive a DTMF encoder (or even an R2R ladder for sine-wave output from multiple digital outputs if your micro is fast enough) to set a controller's time, is fairly simple. One of the local clubs here in town has had such a system for a long time, but hasn't published anything about it. From talking with their techs, they receive WWV at a ham's house, set the clock in the Atmel, and then it has a transmitter on a common control receiver frequency for all of their machines. They had DST hard-coded to specific weeks of the year in their microcontroller code, and had to modify their code during the great DST mess that Congress created (with little to zero impact on energy use, which was supposedly their goal) the last couple of years. My club never built such a gadget, we just go in and bump the time around as necessary and don't get too wigged out if it's off by a minute or two. Everyone has network-synced cell phones in their pockets these days, and worrying about the repeater time just doesn't seem worth it at this point. We get it close and then have to deal with DST. We also got rid of the hourly chimes/announcements/etc. The only time you hear the time announced is after an autopatch, and that's really just in case we had a need to record the autopatch calls for abuse, etc. Building an auto-time set device and having another transmitter just seems like it breaks the KISS principle. As someone else mentioned
[Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem)
Mike and others, The Dallas Semiconductor Nonvolatile Timekeeping RAM found in many popular controllers, including the Link RLC-1 Plus, is Part Number DS1643-150. The 11-page datasheet can be downloaded here: www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1235806.pdf Notice that the -150 indicates 150 ns access time. The replacement device offered by Dallas/Maxim has either 70 ns or 100 ns access time, and I have no idea if the newer device will work properly where a 150 ns device was used. On page 5 of the datasheet is a paragraph entitled Internal Battery Longevity which states that the device can operate for 10 years in the absence of VCC power. When powered as it would normally be in a typical application, the note states that the lifetime can be as long as 20 years. The battery is not accessible for replacement. I see that the guaranteed accuracy of the DS1643 clock is within +/- 1 minute per month, and there is no capability to tweak the crystal to get better accuracy. One of the Hams in my area is experimenting with a scheme to use a so-called atomic clock to jam-set the correct time once per day. With regular synchronism to WWVB, the time announcements will normally be no more than a second off. Once he gets this idea working, perhaps I can get him to write an article about it. I and many other time-and-frequency geeks think that time announcements should be correct. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem I don't have my Dallas Semi book handy, but if I remember correctly the 10 years spec was 10 unpowered years - if the Smartwatch was in a device that was powered up the battery was not being drained. But you still had to factor in the shelf life of the internal coin cell. At 03:44 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: Eric, As Kevin said if your 96 has one of the Dallas Smartwatch the battery in some of them had a life of 10 years. It was basically the shelf life of the battery. Most of the Smartwatch's I've seen used a RAM as the memory rather than a EPROM. The battery maintained the memory when power was lost. The battery could power and maintain memory for the life of the battery which again was spec'd for 10 years although most often lasted 12-14 years. Kinda gets into the area of some rigs having their OS in battery backed RAM. The Smartwatch was made by Dallas Semiconductor. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kevin Berlen, K9HX [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:k9hx%40arrl.net Date: 2007/11/10 Sat AM 02:42:39 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem What version of software is in your controller? With rev 5 of thesoftware, a Dallas Smartwatch was added to the RC-96 to provide a real-time clock. As Irecall, the smartwatch occupied one of the eprom sockets, and the affected eprom wasplugged into a socket on top of the device. If yours has the smartwatch, it maybe the culprit. 73. Kevin, K9HX At 10:10 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: One of the repeaters I maintainhas been working perfectly for almost a year since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link toseveral other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. Itis powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-breakpower. One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primaryand secondary ports: dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dahdah dah ... for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports forabout 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods,the repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted anyother audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMFcommands on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeaterwas dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintopsite to take the beast off the air. As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control linkto give me positive control of the repeater. Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Notethat there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that mightgo bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than Iwant! Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date:11/8/2007 5:55 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock
Bob, Thanks for the response. Since the CPU that queries the clock chip is part of the controller, I wasn't sure that the shorter access time of the newer chips would make a difference or not. Now, about time correction- I am looking at making this as simple as possible. I don't have an IRLP node at the site, so using any kind of network connection is not an option. Requiring a computer to be running at the controller location is not an option. I also don't want to play around with adding or subtracting seconds to get the clock close- that's too much human involvement. I don't want to be tasked with manually changing the time when Daylight Saving Time starts or stops. Since the WWVB time broadcasts automatically adjust for DST, any method of synchronizing a controller at a remote site to WWVB seems to be the best way to go. Here's one possible solution, offered by a friend of mine: Obtain a simple and relatively inexpensive atomic digital clock that has an alarm function. Tap into the alarm beeper circuitry so that a logic level is detected when the alarm goes off. Set the alarm so that it triggers at, say, 0400 hours local time every morning. Install a macro in the controller that, when triggered, will reset the controller's clock to 04:00:00. Voila! Every day, courtesy of the NIST, my controller is always on time. If the DS1643 clock chip is at one extreme of its accuracy tolerance, say two seconds per day, the error could be minimized by jam-setting 03:59:59 or 04:00:01, if needed, to keep the clock within one second of exact. Since the execution of a macro takes time, the jam-set time needs to be offset to compensate for the delay. Perhaps the next generation of repeater controllers will have WWVB or GPS time synchronization built in? (hint hint) 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 2:33 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock Hi Eric, The Dallas Semiconductor Nonvolatile Timekeeping RAM found in many popular controllers, including the Link RLC-1 Plus, is Part Number DS1643-150. We have a lot of experience with the DS1643 and its bigger brother, the DS1644. The S-COM 5K uses the DS1643 (8K RAM), and the 6K and 7K use the DS1644 (32K RAM). A second source for the DS1643 is the STMicro M48T18-100PC1. For the DS1644, a second source is the STMicro M48T35Y-70PC1. Notice that the -150 indicates 150 ns access time. The replacement device offered by Dallas/Maxim has either 70 ns or 100 ns access time, and I have no idea if the newer device will work properly where a 150 ns device was used. As a rule, a faster memory is okay. Slower isn't. I see that the guaranteed accuracy of the DS1643 clock is within +/- 1 minute per month, and there is no capability to tweak the crystal to get better accuracy. That's right. We've been using these parts for many years and the reports from the field range from excellent to mediocre timekeeping. The controllers have clock tweak commands that add or subtract seconds and can be called from the scheduler program. If one knows how many seconds the clock is gaining or losing in a day, then automatically resetting the clock daily (or more often) makes for a pretty accurate clock. Dallas/Maxim now has a series of timekeeping ICs and temperature compensated crystal oscillators. We're using the DS32KHZ TCXO in the new 7330 with good results, so perhaps the temperature at the repeater site has a lot to do with the accuracy of the controller's clock and calendar. 73, Bob Bob Schmid, WA9FBO, Member S-COM, LLC PO Box 1546 LaPorte CO 80535-1546 970-416-6505 voice 970-419-3222 fax www.scomcontrollers.com
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem)
Don, The on-the-hour tone is an 800 ms burst of 1500 Hz. I have built a PLL 1500 Hz tone detector into a Hamtronics WWV receiver, and it works fine- giving me a relay contact closure exactly on the hour. Unfortunately, that would only allow me to jam-set the minutes and seconds to zero, and would not correct an hour error- such as when DST starts and stops. I considered dispensing with the voice time announcement completely, and just broadcast an hourly beep. The problem is that transmitters don't come up instantly, and most or all of the beep will be missed. My solution to that problem is to use the on-the-hour pulse to reset a simple countdown timer that closes a PTT relay at the end of a 59 minute 57 second delay. The countdown timer will key the transmitter shortly before the hour, ensuring that it is ready to pass the 1500 Hz beep exactly on the hour. As soon as the beep detector relay relaxes, PTT goes away, and the repeater will issue its identity message and return to idle mode. I'm still tinkering with this idea. The downside is that WWV reception varies with the time of day and propagation factors, and a decent antenna is required. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don Kupferschmidt Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:43 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem) Eric, I've been toying around with this idea for a couple of years - set the SCOM 7K clock to atomic standards. As you know, the 7K's are prone to drifting with their time of day clock. The idea is to have a stable WWV signal that listen to the top of the hour signal. I'm thinking that is a 1000 kHZ tone, but I could be wrong about that. If someone could build a circuit to decode the top of the hour signal from WWV, you could command the controller, through macros, to reset the clock. Shouldn't be all that difficult. The designers of the new SCOM controller recognized that problem earlier, and as I am told, have placed a new crystal / circuit in the time of day clock to address that problem in the 7330 line. With all of the 7K's out in the field, if a simple circuit could be made it would eliminate the drifting problem. Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Dallas Semiconductor Real-Time Clock (Was RC-96 Controller Problem) Mike and others, The Dallas Semiconductor Nonvolatile Timekeeping RAM found in many popular controllers, including the Link RLC-1 Plus, is Part Number DS1643-150. The 11-page datasheet can be downloaded here: www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/1235806.pdf Notice that the -150 indicates 150 ns access time. The replacement device offered by Dallas/Maxim has either 70 ns or 100 ns access time, and I have no idea if the newer device will work properly where a 150 ns device was used. On page 5 of the datasheet is a paragraph entitled Internal Battery Longevity which states that the device can operate for 10 years in the absence of VCC power. When powered as it would normally be in a typical application, the note states that the lifetime can be as long as 20 years. The battery is not accessible for replacement. I see that the guaranteed accuracy of the DS1643 clock is within +/- 1 minute per month, and there is no capability to tweak the crystal to get better accuracy. One of the Hams in my area is experimenting with a scheme to use a so-called atomic clock to jam-set the correct time once per day. With regular synchronism to WWVB, the time announcements will normally be no more than a second off. Once he gets this idea working, perhaps I can get him to write an article about it. I and many other time-and-frequency geeks think that time announcements should be correct. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
[Repeater-Builder] RC-96 Controller Problem
One of the repeaters I maintain has been working perfectly for almost a year since its last checkup. It is a 6m repeater that has a link to several other 6m repeaters, and is controlled by an ACC RC-96 controller. It is powered from a very large commercial UPS that ensures no-break power. One evening, the controller went berserk, for no apparent reason. It started transmitting a string of Morse characters on both the primary and secondary ports: dit dah dit ... dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah dah ... for about two minutes. It would then be quiet on both ports for about 30 seconds, and would then repeat. During the brief silent periods, the repeater would operate as a repeater, but the Morse string muted any other audio, once it began. The controller would not respond to my DTMF commands on either the primary or secondary ports. To make matters worse, the telephone line that gives me backup control to knock down the repeater was dead at the hilltop end! I had to make a hasty trip to the mountaintop site to take the beast off the air. As a result of this experience, I am adding a dedicated UHF control link to give me positive control of the repeater. Has anyone else had a similar problem with the RC-96 controller? Note that there is no lithium or similar memory battery inside the box that might go bad. Oddball malfunctions like this can add more gray hairs than I want! Any ideas, case histories, or suggestions will be appreciated. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
