[biofuel] Re: biodiesel in nederland colorado?
I am involved with a group in Fort Collins, Colorado that has been experimenting with biodiesel production using used vegetable oil. We meet during the summer months behind a local eatery that supplies us with oil. If your interested in meeting with us please email me. Also, a couple of members in the group are also involved in beginning a commerical biodiesel production company. The company name is SunFuels. Their telephone number is (970) 221-0500 or (866) BIOFUEL. Ask for John R. Long. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Theresa Cecot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: help looking for a supplier of biodiesel. anyone out there, community or group, who has started from ground zero that has info on how to begin... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Hi Steve You want to take it out on a really tight and twisty mountain road that you know really well. Wait a mo while I shift gear... right, Old Fart mode... These young people of today - yesterday he drove one. I drove one in 1963. Hot little thing, then, handled really nicely. The Minis were introduced in 1959, replacing the old Morris Minor, which is a sort of 4-wheeled equivalent of a DC-3 Dakota. Start to consider that level of technology a bit and you get to thinking it's all improved a helluva lot since then, but somehow everything's gone steeply downhill, and could these two things have something to do with each other? If you really like KISS and AT, maybe you'll stop with the Dakota and the Morris Minor. Do they still make Morris Minors in India? They were, until recently. Elsewhere they're collector's items. Anyway, the Mini replaced it, and cost at the time 499 British pounds sterling (about a thousand dollars?). 850cc 4-cylinder, the Cooper version was 1,000cc, much faster. I had a Mini, my first car. I had another one a few years later, working on a newspaper in Johannesburg. I used to go to Cape Town for the weekend, one thousand miles, put my foot down and took it off again when I got there 12-13 hours later. Need big cars for big distances? Nope. The Mini and the Mini Cooper were made by an old company called Austin that had recently merged with another old company called Morris, and finally became BMC (British Motor Corporation), and then died. The story of British industry. What's really interesting about the Mini is the design. It was a real trend-setter, the first transverse-engine front-wheel drive, and the basic design has hardly changed in more than 40 years, just steadily improved. The only comparison I can think of is the VW Beetle. Beetle owners and Mini owners hated each other. So why change models every year? Could it be perhaps just marketing and a packaging job? I think that's a strong point in the Mini Cooper's favour. In deciding which car's green and which isn't the eco-costs of manufacturing ought to be considered, and this kind of design continuity surely lowers those costs. So, though the fuel economy isn't that great (it never was - was surprised to see it rating green in that story), it might be cleaner than it looks at first. The Japanese love Mini Coopers, by the way. Regards Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Ethanol Enigma
From what I gather about the US Farm Energy Bills is the political contribution interests and the majority republican swing votes needed from the farm states this year. Although it could be US energy security and global enviro concerns. In my area all gasoline/diesel pump prices move in unison to a fixed price. It appears big oil is making inroads to the Caspian Sea In the National Interest http://abcnews.go.com/Sections/Nightline/ Underneath the devastated infrastructure and harsh soil of the landlocked, war-torn Central Asian nations is oil, and lots of it. The global war on terrorism brought some stability to this part of the world, but is the energy industry, and Washington, expecting something in return? And big ethanol is getting theirs on the home front. Maybe thats what the US Senate meant by compromise. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] The Ethanol Enigma
Hi Hoagy From what I gather about the US Farm Energy Bills is the political contribution interests and the majority republican swing votes needed from the farm states this year. Although it could be US energy security and global enviro concerns. In my area all gasoline/diesel pump prices move in unison to a fixed price. It appears big oil is making inroads to the Caspian Sea In the National Interest http://abcnews.go.com/Sections/Nightline/ Underneath the devastated infrastructure and harsh soil of the landlocked, war-torn Central Asian nations is oil, and lots of it. The global war on terrorism brought some stability to this part of the world, but is the energy industry, and Washington, expecting something in return? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12946 Bush's Master Oil Plan This next is an interesting one because it's four years old, 4-part, 10,000 word article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998 /08/10/MN1650.DTL Perilous Lifeline to West Conflict-ridden Caspian basin is the world's next Persian Gulf Monday, August 10, 1998 And big ethanol is getting theirs on the home front. Maybe thats what the US Senate meant by compromise. Yes, maybe. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 1:24 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Hi Steve You want to take it out on a really tight and twisty mountain road that you know really well. I did! ;-) Wait a mo while I shift gear... right, Old Fart mode... These young people of today - yesterday he drove one. I drove one in 1963. Hot little thing, then, handled really nicely. The Minis were introduced in 1959, replacing the old Morris Minor, which is a sort of 4-wheeled equivalent of a DC-3 Dakota. Start to consider that level of technology a bit and you get to thinking it's all improved a helluva lot since then, but somehow everything's gone steeply downhill, and could these two things have something to do with each other? If you really like KISS and AT, maybe you'll stop with the Dakota and the Morris Minor. Do they still make Morris Minors in India? They were, until recently. Elsewhere they're collector's items. These babies have the BMW Stability control with anti yaw, which includes mundane things like traction control and anti lock brakes. Anyway, the Mini replaced it, and cost at the time 499 British pounds sterling (about a thousand dollars?). 850cc 4-cylinder, the Cooper version was 1,000cc, much faster. I had a Mini, my first car. I had another one a few years later, working on a newspaper in Johannesburg. I used to go to Cape Town for the weekend, one thousand miles, put my foot down and took it off again when I got there 12-13 hours later. Need big cars for big distances? Nope. now we are up to 1.6l, 163 hp (at 6000 rpm) supercharged, intercooled bliss. the 6 speed getrag is a blessing to shift. at $25k fully loaded it's more fun than a beemer that costs $40k. The Mini and the Mini Cooper were made by an old company called Austin that had recently merged with another old company called Morris, and finally became BMC (British Motor Corporation), and then died. The story of British industry. now it's BMW. It no longer leaks oil ;-) What's really interesting about the Mini is the design. It was a real trend-setter, the first transverse-engine front-wheel drive, and the basic design has hardly changed in more than 40 years, just steadily improved. The only comparison I can think of is the VW Beetle. Beetle owners and Mini owners hated each other. The new beetle turbo (drove that one last night) is ok, but doesn't have the fun factor the mini has. and the clutch sucks So why change models every year? Could it be perhaps just marketing and a packaging job? I think that's a strong point in the Mini Cooper's favour. In deciding which car's green and which isn't the eco-costs of manufacturing ought to be considered, and this kind of design continuity surely lowers those costs. So, though the fuel economy isn't that great (it never was - was surprised to see it rating green in that story), it might be cleaner than it looks at first. Going to try out the Beetle diesel automatic today, that can be green (or yellow (grease)). The Japanese love Mini Coopers, by the way. I see why, it's adorable. Regards Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
It gets 33 at best (worse when I'm honking the supercharger at 6000 rpm), and there is no diesel option here in the USA. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? My real car gets 30 mpg. I would think a minicooper would get 50 at least. Maybe on diesel? --- steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: color. And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness than the Insight. Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point in more than 20 years, notes Consumer Reports' 2002 auto trends report. So that's the bad news, but there's hope. Frankenfans Existing green cars have their fans. According to a Department of Energy report, last year there were nearly 500,000 alternative-fuel vehicles on the roads in the United States. Of
[biofuel] Acrylamides, medium-risk carcinogens, found in some fried high-carb foods
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/nm/20020424/hl_nm/cancer_bread_1 I wonder if biodiesels made from used grease from such substances would have an out if the acrylamide might not be as harmful unless ingested orally? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re[2]: [biofuel] Huge Hydrogen Stores Found Below Earth's Crust
murdoch65 wrote: I am very interested in the last question of the series. What would you do if it was your invention? First let me mention that as to the article from which this question sprang, it was written by a fairly wide-eyed person who got a number of things wrong and let his enthusiasm get in the way of good reporting in spots. Steve decided to take him at his word as to the efficiency of burning hydrogen but I disagree with this, as hydrogen fuel cells are making good progress and can be expected to make some more over the next ten or twenty years. Yes, I think that's right, but I do tend to take issue with the enthusiasts who tell me it's right around the corner and will solve all our problems tomorrow, or here right now and I just haven't noticed, because I've been hearing that for the last three decades. If I were to invent such an invention as you describe, I question whether I'd release it to anyone, as it would likely bring me nothing but miserable years in the courts, at best. Patent protection for such a device would be inadequate at best , and as to giving it away, which I would not want to do, but if I did that, I'd expect the world to foul it up somehow, hard to predict how. Hiding such a light under a bushel might also bring you nothing but miserable years as you kept seeing more and more what a gift it could be and how much suffering it might end, but you just went on sitting on it. Do you think you could really do that? I'm sure you'd think of a better way. Courts, sure, and you're dead right about patents. Patents don't mean much these days, unless you're a big corp, and not even then - the big corps spend a lot of time and money fighting each other over patents, But I reckon you're being a little hard on your human brothers and sisters, I don't think we've fouled a lot of things up, pretty good record really, despite generally challenging circumstances of just about every conceivable type. But, brothers and sisters are one matter, but when it comes to our bosses, our betters and overlords and their various gangs, and all our committees, from village hall to Washington, wherever and whenever, yeah, they'd foul it up. Don't give the whole town a bad press just because of a couple of local thugs. Maybe you'd be looking for ways to give it away to ordinary folks, so that ordinary folks could keep hold of it. Hey, you might even get rich doing that, who knows? If you managed to do such a thing for the world I don't think it'd let you starve. Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Acrylamides, medium-risk carcinogens, found in some fried high-carb foods
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news? tmpl=storyu=/nm/20020424/hl_nm/cancer_bread_1 I wonder if biodiesels made from used grease from such substances would have an out if the acrylamide might not be as harmful unless ingested orally? or is it like smokin' dope or putting it in a brownie? Just by chance, I'd not be caught sucking on a biodiesel exhaust. Sorry, what else can you compare it to? we don't eat cigarettes, eh? and diesel fumes are adictive too Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re[2]: [biofuel] Huge Hydrogen Stores Found Below Earth's Crust
Steve decided to take him at his word as to the efficiency of burning hydrogen but I disagree with this, as hydrogen fuel cells are making good progress and can be expected to make some more over the next ten or twenty years. Yes, I think that's right, but I do tend to take issue with the enthusiasts who tell me it's right around the corner and will solve all our problems tomorrow, or here right now and I just haven't noticed, because I've been hearing that for the last three decades. Yes, I absolutely agree with this statement. Enough is enough with the whole fuel cells are the answer right now thing. We should be told the whole scoop and not just the rosy stuff. For example, the need for expensive precious metals, typically used in catalytic converters, is part of PEM fuel cell schemes, that I understand. This need has been reduced but not eliminated that I understand. Also, very interesting: awhile back I was having this conver. with another guy somewhere else and he claimed that fuel cells were not really that efficient yet without cogen, not even 40 or 50% energy efficient in many cases. My initial reaction was to be upset, but he was right on the mark. All of this talk about energy efficiency beating IC engines for example, but without some cogen, or without a somewhat exotic fuel cell scheme, the efficiency is better but not that much better. Now, don't get me wrong, under some sort of idealized conditions I think they can get up there in the 70 or 80 percent range, depending on the tech, but I'm not sure what percentage of that is cogen (i.e. use of waste heat).1 If I were to invent such an invention as you describe, I question whether I'd release it to anyone, as it would likely bring me nothing but miserable years in the courts, at best. Patent protection for such a device would be inadequate at best , and as to giving it away, which I would not want to do, but if I did that, I'd expect the world to foul it up somehow, hard to predict how. Hiding such a light under a bushel might also bring you nothing but miserable years as you kept seeing more and more what a gift it could be and how much suffering it might end, but you just went on sitting on it. Do you think you could really do that? I'm sure you'd think of a better way. Courts, sure, and you're dead right about patents. Patents don't mean much these days, unless you're a big corp, and not even then - the big corps spend a lot of time and money fighting each other over patents, Just to be clear: I would not spend more than two iotas of my time in courts or on phones with people in courts. It would not, and will not, happen. Life is so goddamn short. Of the dozens of publicly traded companies that I follow, the majority of them are run or owned by folks who have some variant of world-beating energy-converting device, and almost all of those folks have made the trade-off and been seduced into spending the brunt of their lives trying to be businessmen instead of inventors, and trying to do this or that stock-trade consideration or fighting for patent rights to the exclusion of rational productivity in fighting for the marketing of their inventions. In this process it is often clear that the invention is not necessarily single-handedly going to save the world, or it has flaws or it is out-of--its-time-period or whatever. Sometimes the system works the way its supposed to to cut an invention down to size so that it's valuable but the inventor needs to understand it is not the be-all-end-all-to-end-all-troubles thing he obviously convinced some shareholders it was. But this system-working-the-way-it's-supposed-to aspect does not adequately cover the lack of productivity and, yes, happiness, that is induced in these excellent and interesting people who otherwise could offer us so much more. I have said before, and will say again now, the lack of protection of their rights, and the lack of public debate and concern with these particular folks, inventors and specifically those whose general area is energy-related-inventions, is very very striking now that national energy policy has become a matter of national debate, now that we are all very much desirous of solutions to different facets of the energy deficit. It is arguably the most important issue in the collection of energy policy issues... the protection of the rights of those whom we ask to solve the problem... and it is arguably the least talked about and the least likely, therefor, to get solved. I have frankly never really heard it brought up in any forum public or private, by anyone else, with the exception of, say, the response that I'll occassionally get from folks like yourself. I have never heard a single legislator bring up the issue. The response to the Cold Fusion craze was interesting (never mind that the invention was viable): it immediately became a matter of Congressional interest, the Trillion Dollar Value of such a thing was bandied
Re: (Todd Paul) [biofuel] murky
Thanks to you both for the tips. I still haven«t tried filtering. Heating to, say, 60¼C, makes the BD clear... even leaving it in full sunshine has the same effect, but at 20¼C the BD goes back cloudy. (This is regarding Todd«s 120¼F -49¼C- suggestion) I«ll try Paul«s suggestion first, just because it«s simpler. Anyway, I don«t quite understand how filtering removes cloudiness that comes from liquid particles (either water or glycerides). My reaction times were, I admit it, perhaps too short. I mixed four independent 1 liter batches, and they were each left to react for about 30 to 40 minutes. The reaction seemed complete after 10 minutes or so, and I thought 30-40 min would do. Washing stage 1 left some emulsion problems, but decanting over night allowed me to drain the water together with a small emulsified+soap layer in between. I used a 6lt pyrex with an opening at the bottom, so I always drained the water from below, rather than syphoning the BD form atop. Todd: how do I calculate the proportion of lye if I were to follow your suggestion? Will an excess simply wash out in the washing stage? Or might it react to form the so feared gel? My third washing left the water almost clear, and instead of an emulsion, I sort of got the washing bottle full of bubbles... but not soap bubbles. They were rather BD bubbles (5mm in diameter) in the water, and water bubbles (same size) in the BD portion, and they all dissappeared quickly after turning off the aereator. Thanks... I«ll keep in touch. Best to you all, Christian - Original Message - From: Paul Gobert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] murky - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 1:28 PM Subject: [biofuel] murky Does filtering remove the cloudiness? Usually works wonders, needs to be fairly fine filter medium though. For example a disposable plastic inline fuel filter will pass cloudy BD. A 11 micron filter paper (Whatman No. 1) produces crystal clear BD from the same murky BD. Regards, Paul Gobert. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 19/04/02 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Acrylamides, medium-risk carcinogens, found in some fried high-carb foods
I wonder if biodiesels made from used grease from such substances would have an out if the acrylamide might not be as harmful unless ingested orally? or is it like smokin' dope or putting it in a brownie? Just by chance, I'd not be caught sucking on a biodiesel exhaust. Sorry, what else can you compare it to? we don't eat cigarettes, eh? and diesel fumes are adictive too While I wouldn't go out of my way to suck on exhaust from anything, the question remains open for me whether the substance is cancerous, or as cancerous, when used in a biodiesel engine. There are any number of serious scientific questions that would need unbiased investigation, such as whether the process of burning the fuel would affect the amount in the fuel of the claimed carcinogen, and whether it is harmful or as harmful in air as it is ingested as food. Something that might cause stomach cancer when eaten might not have the same effect to the lungs or body when breathed in. It's quite possible it would, I am just trying to proceed with some caution on the matter. Many of the local stories I've read covering this or that biodiesel effort will focus on the fact that the fumes smell like French Fries with the message that it's better than traditional diesel soot. If the discovery actually has some validity that French Fries are not super-hunky-dory-healthy then this would be a damper. I think in the end, the Biodiesel effort will be ok, but it can't hurt to follow the precautionary principle and look into the matter. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Acrylamides, medium-risk carcinogens, found in some fried high-carb foods
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: damper. I think in the end, the Biodiesel effort will be ok, but it can't hurt to follow the precautionary principle and look into the matter. I think biodiesel or SVO will still come ahead of MTBE,lead,sulphur,benzene etc. Prolly the quickest test would be runnin' an exhaust through a fish tank and with the short half-life set up another tank with the exhaust fumes injected after 8 or 12 hours, maybe theres no harm at all and the only thing changing will be the packaging industry to allow the acro to breathe out of the bag, maybe a vegetable oil based chip bag and a great deal on day old fries.I know a couple of people that have been eating chips for decades, so I really don't fear the problem to much. But I'll bet it keeps the gene mapping people busy for a while, Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re[2]: [biofuel] Huge Hydrogen Stores Found Below Earth's Crust
Hi m65 Thanks for an interesting letter. Interesting and interesting. Steve decided to take him at his word as to the efficiency of burning hydrogen but I disagree with this, as hydrogen fuel cells are making good progress and can be expected to make some more over the next ten or twenty years. Yes, I think that's right, but I do tend to take issue with the enthusiasts who tell me it's right around the corner and will solve all our problems tomorrow, or here right now and I just haven't noticed, because I've been hearing that for the last three decades. Yes, I absolutely agree with this statement. Enough is enough with the whole fuel cells are the answer right now thing. We should be told the whole scoop and not just the rosy stuff. For example, the need for expensive precious metals, typically used in catalytic converters, is part of PEM fuel cell schemes, that I understand. This need has been reduced but not eliminated that I understand. Also, very interesting: awhile back I was having this conver. with another guy somewhere else and he claimed that fuel cells were not really that efficient yet without cogen, not even 40 or 50% energy efficient in many cases. My initial reaction was to be upset, but he was right on the mark. All of this talk about energy efficiency beating IC engines for example, but without some cogen, or without a somewhat exotic fuel cell scheme, the efficiency is better but not that much better. Now, don't get me wrong, under some sort of idealized conditions I think they can get up there in the 70 or 80 percent range, depending on the tech, but I'm not sure what percentage of that is cogen (i.e. use of waste heat).1 I hope this generates some discussion. It's a most promising technology, but yes please, let's get the whole scoop and not just the rosy stuff. We've seen (and are seeing) that old movie before with promising technology that gets developed by all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons and delivers all the wrong promises, and there are hints of that here with fuel cells. What a pity that would be. And worse. If I were to invent such an invention as you describe, I question whether I'd release it to anyone, as it would likely bring me nothing but miserable years in the courts, at best. Patent protection for such a device would be inadequate at best , and as to giving it away, which I would not want to do, but if I did that, I'd expect the world to foul it up somehow, hard to predict how. Hiding such a light under a bushel might also bring you nothing but miserable years as you kept seeing more and more what a gift it could be and how much suffering it might end, but you just went on sitting on it. Do you think you could really do that? I'm sure you'd think of a better way. Courts, sure, and you're dead right about patents. Patents don't mean much these days, unless you're a big corp, and not even then - the big corps spend a lot of time and money fighting each other over patents, Just to be clear: I would not spend more than two iotas of my time in courts or on phones with people in courts. It would not, and will not, happen. Life is so goddamn short. Ah yes, I also learnt that lesson. At first I saw it as a good opportunity ruined for such bad reasons, but the lesson was invaluable, well worth the pain. Of the dozens of publicly traded companies that I follow, the majority of them are run or owned by folks who have some variant of world-beating energy-converting device, and almost all of those folks have made the trade-off and been seduced into spending the brunt of their lives trying to be businessmen instead of inventors, and trying to do this or that stock-trade consideration or fighting for patent rights to the exclusion of rational productivity in fighting for the marketing of their inventions. In this process it is often clear that the invention is not necessarily single-handedly going to save the world, or it has flaws or it is out-of--its-time-period or whatever. Sometimes the system works the way its supposed to to cut an invention down to size so that it's valuable but the inventor needs to understand it is not the be-all-end-all-to-end-all-troubles thing he obviously convinced some shareholders it was. But this system-working-the-way-it's-supposed-to aspect does not adequately cover the lack of productivity and, yes, happiness, that is induced in these excellent and interesting people who otherwise could offer us so much more. No, it's pathetically inadequate. And yes, happiness - I don't think much of the Vincent van Gogh school of thought that suffering is good for creativity, and even if it might be, there's no excuse for imposing it. I have said before, and will say again now, the lack of protection of their rights, and the lack of public debate and concern with these particular folks, inventors and specifically those whose general area is energy-related-inventions, is very
Re: (Todd Paul) [biofuel] murky
Christian, A lot of people have had difficulty ascribing the haze problem to a root cause. We do know that too much caustic can cause an electro-chemical response where microscopic water wants to adhere to esters. As I am told by our chemist...a reasonably reliable and rather sharp chap...the excess catalyst transfers its charge in some manner, even though it is washed out, giving cause for the water adhesion. The best reslolve...? As little catalyst as possible. We also know that too much catalyst can cause soap formation, even in a 2 stage acid/base where the FFAs are esterified prior to the addition of base. As soap is an emulsifier, its rather difficult to get it all washed out at the microscopic level Compounding those two factors together probably contributes considerably to haze. Throw in miniscule incompleteness of reactions, where feint traces of mono- and di-glycerides exist, and the situation is ripe for a multiple compound fracture. Suggestions? No different than before...try to lightly heat out the haze and also run a small batch of the haze free fuel through the process again to see if any more glycerin drops. If no glycerin drops, you should feel safe in placing the balance of the heated fuel into a tank. I would do so when I was sure that the entire volume was going to be consumed semi-quickly. Or, if you're concerned, throw it in with an equal measure of ...ack...!%#!...petrodiesel. The next suggestion is that on your next batches, always make sure to draw your fuel off the top, stearing clear form getting anywhere near the interface layer of fuel/water. You'll lose a quart at each rinse, but these can be consolidated in a separate drum and recovered later. This would probably mean elevating your production to larger quantitities somewhat to accomodate for the temporary loss at each wash stage. Just don't get perturbed. The fuel is good stuff...you'll just have a little more around as a result of having to compensate for working in small quantities. Not to worry. Even the big boys do the same thing. Just that doing it in micro-liters is durned impossible. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Christian To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 1:08 PM Subject: Re: (Todd Paul) [biofuel] murky Thanks to you both for the tips. I still haven«t tried filtering. Heating to, say, 60¼C, makes the BD clear... even leaving it in full sunshine has the same effect, but at 20¼C the BD goes back cloudy. (This is regarding Todd«s 120¼F -49¼C- suggestion) I«ll try Paul«s suggestion first, just because it«s simpler. Anyway, I don«t quite understand how filtering removes cloudiness that comes from liquid particles (either water or glycerides). My reaction times were, I admit it, perhaps too short. I mixed four independent 1 liter batches, and they were each left to react for about 30 to 40 minutes. The reaction seemed complete after 10 minutes or so, and I thought 30-40 min would do. Washing stage 1 left some emulsion problems, but decanting over night allowed me to drain the water together with a small emulsified+soap layer in between. I used a 6lt pyrex with an opening at the bottom, so I always drained the water from below, rather than syphoning the BD form atop. Todd: how do I calculate the proportion of lye if I were to follow your suggestion? Will an excess simply wash out in the washing stage? Or might it react to form the so feared gel? My third washing left the water almost clear, and instead of an emulsion, I sort of got the washing bottle full of bubbles... but not soap bubbles. They were rather BD bubbles (5mm in diameter) in the water, and water bubbles (same size) in the BD portion, and they all dissappeared quickly after turning off the aereator. Thanks... I«ll keep in touch. Best to you all, Christian - Original Message - From: Paul Gobert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] murky - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 1:28 PM Subject: [biofuel] murky Does filtering remove the cloudiness? Usually works wonders, needs to be fairly fine filter medium though. For example a disposable plastic inline fuel filter will pass cloudy BD. A 11 micron filter paper (Whatman No. 1) produces crystal clear BD from the same murky BD. Regards, Paul Gobert. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 19/04/02 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _
[biofuel] murky now clear
Dear Todd Paul (and the rest of you), I used a couple of coffee paper filters in a funnel, filtered the fuel, and the BD turned out sparklingly transparent (at room temp). Thanks again for the help, Christian. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: color. And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness than the Insight. Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point in more than 20 years, notes Consumer Reports' 2002 auto trends report. So that's the bad news, but there's hope. Frankenfans Existing green cars have their fans. According to a Department of Energy report, last year there were nearly 500,000 alternative-fuel vehicles on the roads in the United States. Of those half-million cars, 10,400 were electric. Consumers dedicate websites to electric cars and half-gas, half-electric hybrids, or frankencars. One fan posted a diary all about his 1999 electric Sparrow on the Internet and has kept it up for three years. Another self-described electric-car enthusiast, Joseph Lado from Virginia (who doesn't actually drive an electric car, evidently is dissatisfied with the
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays any real attention to environmental ratings when buying a car, the dealers say. Not like, say, the kind of cup holders it has, or how the bike rack attaches or that all-important consumer issue: color. And those fuel inefficient SUVs remain hugely popular, regardless of the fact that they are extraordinarily polluting. According to GreenerCars.com, SUVs pollute about twice as much as, say, my Civic, which on average discharges 2 tons a year more carbon dioxide badness than the Insight. Although engines in general are becoming more efficient, smoother and better-performing, the trend toward larger SUVs and pickups has contributed to the average fuel economy dipping to its lowest point in more than 20 years, notes
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up. Despite all this, a good clean car is still hard to find. It seems like we should have evolved more by now. For years, there's been hope that cars will become greener in the form of research on cleaner cars. The web is overflowing with information about alternative fuel vehicles from the U.S. Department of Energy and agencies like the Natural Resources Defense Council that push for fuel-efficiency legislation. Car dealers, however, blame the public's disinterest for the Greenmobile's underwhelming entrance into the market. Almost no one pays
Re: [biofuel] murky now clear
Christian, Were I to hazard a guess, it sounds more like you had a minor emulsion problem or some form of other particulate suspension problem other than a simple fuel haze as a result of microscopic water adhesion. That or you've been working in a really cold basement in Maine and you're simply dealing with the lower cloudpoint of biodiesel. Not to worryas I have often saidand it really #!$%es off the chemistHell, a diesel will burn straight vegetable oil. Something a little bit lighter can't hurt. Next go around should be better. Just remember that you may just have reached the bottom end of what you want to put in a tank. I love the smell of [biodiesel] in the morning. It smells like victory!! Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Christian To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 5:33 PM Subject: [biofuel] murky now clear Dear Todd Paul (and the rest of you), I used a couple of coffee paper filters in a funnel, filtered the fuel, and the BD turned out sparklingly transparent (at room temp). Thanks again for the help, Christian. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
i did not know that a small car could pull a trailer and not overheat. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:02 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you can buy or lease at this moment there are plenty of choices, combinations and features. Sorting them all out is confusing but not impossible. The ones accessible to me as of presstime were the BMW Mini Cooper, the Honda Insight, the Honda Civic Hybrid, the Honda Civic GX natural-gas vehicle, the Toyota Prius, the Toyota Rav4 EV, the Corbin Sparrow, the Ford Th!nk, the Ford Ranger EV and the DaimlerChrysler GEM. Idling Politics Here's another thing I've learned. Despite all the chatter about fuel efficiency from the Legislature lately, and the attempts by various cities to get their fleets on a greener track, this has been a slow-going revolution with plenty of setbacks. Witness last month's rise and fall of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards: Senator John Kerry's (D-Mass.) proposal to require new vehicles to average a respectable 36 mpg of gas by 2015 did a giant belly flop. SUVs get to be an estimated 25 percent more polluting than other cars. Gasoline has drivers over an oil barrel, and so, as they do in any time of war with oil-producing nations, gas prices are going up.
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Seriously, it's not a problem. And I haven't flushed the radiator for 2 years. Single axle, 8' x 10' trailer, 900#s tare weight, often loaded with 1/2 - 3/4 ton, hauling as much as 300 miles round trip, no overheat problem. Bit of a load on the brakes more than anything else. And I'm sure a county bounty could be a real rhoid if he or she wanted. Too bad these days that you have to wine and dine the VW sales rep for three weeks just to get them to consider placing a factory order for a diesel engine in a new Golf. Both Jettas and Golf are still pretty much the same chassis, or so I'm led to believe. I think I'll just pay for a Maco paint job to keep the salt and rust in check, rebuild the steering every 16 years and worry about the engine when she goes. As she's still pretty strong, that could be a while. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: AOAR Welch B. To: 'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? i did not know that a small car could pull a trailer and not overheat. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:02 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast, safe and cute car that can take you to work and back, and out for fun, on little or no gas. You also need room to cart around your laptop, your nonfat latte, a pal and your four-piece silver-sparkle Ludwig drum set, which in my case is named Natasha J. Sparky. Since we've got so much in common, it makes sense to share car-search secrets. I'll start. What I've learned about the latest electric, hybrid and just plain cuter- or cleaner-than-thou vehicles that you
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Chek that... a 6' x 10' trailer. Must have been romanticising as if it were a 48 foot reefer being hauled by a Cummings. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Seriously, it's not a problem. And I haven't flushed the radiator for 2 years. Single axle, 8' x 10' trailer, 900#s tare weight, often loaded with 1/2 - 3/4 ton, hauling as much as 300 miles round trip, no overheat problem. Bit of a load on the brakes more than anything else. And I'm sure a county bounty could be a real rhoid if he or she wanted. Too bad these days that you have to wine and dine the VW sales rep for three weeks just to get them to consider placing a factory order for a diesel engine in a new Golf. Both Jettas and Golf are still pretty much the same chassis, or so I'm led to believe. I think I'll just pay for a Maco paint job to keep the salt and rust in check, rebuild the steering every 16 years and worry about the engine when she goes. As she's still pretty strong, that could be a while. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: AOAR Welch B. To: 'biofuel@yahoogroups.com' Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 8:23 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? i did not know that a small car could pull a trailer and not overheat. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 4:02 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 If you're like me, and you are, you want a good, cheap, fast,
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Steve Spence wrote: I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Hi Steve You want to take it out on a really tight and twisty mountain road that you know really well. I did! ;-) You know then! Total fun. (Even more fun was doing those roads with a '56 V8 Fairlane and pretending it was a Mini.) snip These babies have the BMW Stability control with anti yaw, which includes mundane things like traction control and anti lock brakes. snip now we are up to 1.6l, 163 hp (at 6000 rpm) supercharged, intercooled bliss. the 6 speed getrag is a blessing to shift. at $25k fully loaded it's more fun than a beemer that costs $40k. Wow, I didn't know those specs! Yes, that WOULD be fun. 33mpg's not too bad, for that. Beemer's aren't much fun. The Mini and the Mini Cooper were made by an old company called Austin that had recently merged with another old company called Morris, and finally became BMC (British Motor Corporation), and then died. The story of British industry. now it's BMW. It no longer leaks oil ;-) You got it! And maybe even the electrics work in the rain. What's really interesting about the Mini is the design. It was a real trend-setter, the first transverse-engine front-wheel drive, and the basic design has hardly changed in more than 40 years, just steadily improved. The only comparison I can think of is the VW Beetle. Beetle owners and Mini owners hated each other. The new beetle turbo (drove that one last night) is ok, but doesn't have the fun factor the mini has. and the clutch sucks Really? That's surprising. So why change models every year? Could it be perhaps just marketing and a packaging job? I think that's a strong point in the Mini Cooper's favour. In deciding which car's green and which isn't the eco-costs of manufacturing ought to be considered, and this kind of design continuity surely lowers those costs. So, though the fuel economy isn't that great (it never was - was surprised to see it rating green in that story), it might be cleaner than it looks at first. Going to try out the Beetle diesel automatic today, that can be green (or yellow (grease)). The Japanese love Mini Coopers, by the way. I see why, it's adorable. Yes. But they make some great small cars in Japan. Not for export though, I'd never seen them before I came here. Are you planning on buying one of these motors? Best Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Hey... I just drove a 1986 VW Golf, filled to the brim with biodiesel, hauling a trailer full of hay and about 400 pounds of boiler parts and got ~44mpg. I'll take utility and green over a chick car and green any dayI'm t old for chick. Hey, Todd... You're more of an old fart than I am. I could talk myself into really needing the sheer utility of a Pinzgauer 6x6, a Toyota diesel pickup, a Mini Cooper such as Steve describes, a Guzzi Le Mans for good measure, and, um, a Tiger Moth. Not too sure about the rollerskates these days though. What? Money? Oh. Damn. Forgot about that. Well, maybe the rollerskates... Just keep praying for acid drought, another Arab oil embargo and $3.50 a gallon at the pump. You could get your wish. I hope it doesn't mean we all get a nuke up our camel's ass too though. Keith Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Steve Spence wrote: I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Hi Steve You want to take it out on a really tight and twisty mountain road that you know really well. I did! ;-) You know then! Total fun. (Even more fun was doing those roads with a '56 V8 Fairlane and pretending it was a Mini.) A real blast! snip These babies have the BMW Stability control with anti yaw, which includes mundane things like traction control and anti lock brakes. snip now we are up to 1.6l, 163 hp (at 6000 rpm) supercharged, intercooled bliss. the 6 speed getrag is a blessing to shift. at $25k fully loaded it's more fun than a beemer that costs $40k. Wow, I didn't know those specs! Yes, that WOULD be fun. 33mpg's not too bad, for that. Beemer's aren't much fun. The Mini and the Mini Cooper were made by an old company called Austin that had recently merged with another old company called Morris, and finally became BMC (British Motor Corporation), and then died. The story of British industry. now it's BMW. It no longer leaks oil ;-) You got it! And maybe even the electrics work in the rain. What's really interesting about the Mini is the design. It was a real trend-setter, the first transverse-engine front-wheel drive, and the basic design has hardly changed in more than 40 years, just steadily improved. The only comparison I can think of is the VW Beetle. Beetle owners and Mini owners hated each other. The new beetle turbo (drove that one last night) is ok, but doesn't have the fun factor the mini has. and the clutch sucks Really? That's surprising. a lot of pedal movement, high release. really works the leg. the diesel auto I tried today was slower, but still no slouch. got beat by a 4.3l blazer though. So why change models every year? Could it be perhaps just marketing and a packaging job? I think that's a strong point in the Mini Cooper's favour. In deciding which car's green and which isn't the eco-costs of manufacturing ought to be considered, and this kind of design continuity surely lowers those costs. So, though the fuel economy isn't that great (it never was - was surprised to see it rating green in that story), it might be cleaner than it looks at first. Going to try out the Beetle diesel automatic today, that can be green (or yellow (grease)). The Japanese love Mini Coopers, by the way. I see why, it's adorable. Yes. But they make some great small cars in Japan. Not for export though, I'd never seen them before I came here. Are you planning on buying one of these motors? If it came in a diesel, I'd jump all over it. sigh maybe an ethanol conversion.. Best Keith Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You?
Man...You're too much fun ROFL ROFLROFL ROFFL... Todd - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? [snip...] You could get your wish. I hope it doesn't mean we all get a nuke up our camel's ass too though. Keith Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: steve spence To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Today I test drove a new vw beetle, turbo diesel. Now this is one fine automobile. 44mpg isn't shabby either. saw diesel today for $1.23 / us gallon. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: stewart hyde [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Agreed My 14 year old Citroen BX turbodesel/GTI hybrid Gets 50 mpg (Imperial 4.55 ltr) and runs beautifilly with rapeseed oil @50% fuel extender Stewart from Wales UK where fuel is almost one dollar per litre. - Original Message - From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? I drove a BMW minicooper yesterday, and although it was cute, I would not call 33mpg on premium unleaded clean. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:23 AM Subject: [biofuel] So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12917 AlterNet -- So, You Want to Buy a Green Car ... Or Do You? Allie Gottlieb, Metro Silicon Valley http://www.metroactive.com April 19, 2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Phosphoric
Oky Keith, I've backtracked and got all the late email addressed or deleted. Now what was that question? Phosphoric was it? Here is the ugly little secret. Phosphoric has the propensity of breaking down an ester. What is broken ester? Simply put...it's an FFA. What is an FFA? It's a glyceride minus the glycerin...mono-, di- or tri-...it doesn't matter. So you have a glyceride that has been cracked and turned into an ester. The glycerin has dropped. Yet the addition of an acid such as phosphoric can crack an ester, taking it right back to an FFA. Then there's the really double ugly secret First, you might want to refer to The Soapmaker's Companion, a wonderful soapmaker's guide that can be enormously useful...even to a biodieseler. Both FFAs and glycerides saponify - turn into soap in the presence of base. It's not just FFAs that turn into soap, which apparently many people think when they contemplate turning toward 2 stage acid/base reactions and away from straight base processes. So in an acid/base you esterify the FFAs into esters in the acid stage, and perhaps a few glycerides are transesterified as well - not many, but a few. Cool. One problem solved, as there is now a lesser requirement for base catalyst in the base stage, because none of it will be bound up by FFAs. But from my perspective, there remains one considerable problem - it revolves around the general concept of catalysts and the time hardened tradition of biodieselers who have cut their teeth on straight base reactions and the formulations they have used for so long. Most of us who have performed straight base reactions titrate in order to determine how much compensation must be made to override the presence of FFAs. And most of us have relied upon the 3.5 grams NaOH + x formula. The really fanciful part that few people have given much thought to in the backyard biodieseler's environment is that catalyst is never destroyed. It may get bound up, such as with FFAs or particulates, but if both of those variables are compensated for, the remaining free catalyst is there to do its job. So...define the purpose of a catalyst. Essentially adding extra amounts of catalyst accomplishes virtually nothing save for reducing reaction times, as catalyst is not destroyed. Essentially, even in a straight base esterification, it should only take a gram or less of catalyst beyond the titration requirement to effect a completed reaction over time. The biggest problem is that few people want to take the time. One-half gram of catalyst under heavy agitation might take 24 hours or perhaps even longer to convert 1 liter of oil. But the beauty is that if only one-half gram is used, 3.0 grams are omitted in comparison to some of the tried and true methods in the biodieseler's bibles. If you can get rid of this amount of base, you can also get rid of a relative amount of acid neutralizer, whether it be in a water wash or the FFA recovery from the glycerin layer. But the primary benefit of base catalyst reduction to the lowest possible level (lowest possible level to meet specific demands) is the reduction of soap formation. Yes, the base is a catalyst. But yes, it also saponifies triglycerides - it is conducive to making soap, even in the lack of presence of FFAs. The primary trick is to get rid of the FFAs, thereby reducing the volume of excess base catalyst needed for compensation, then create a system where time is not the most important element...where the method of manufacture and the energy comsumed to create ester manufacture is at a minimum and in balance with the least possible amount of catalyst appropriate to the specific application. If this is 15 gallons expected to react completely in two hours, the catalyst requirement will be heavy, and so will the soap manufacture. If this is 500 gallons expected to react completely in only 24 hours under heavy agitation, the catalyst requirement can be minimized to extremely small levels, which will in turn reduce soap manufacture, and in turn, reduce wash problems. Start throwing phosphoric acid into the esters in order to neutralize base catalyst as a result of impatience, and you start to break down esters into FFAs, as well as any soaps present that have been created by excessive catalyst (or even inexcessive catalyst). Do that to too high a degree and you can kiss meeting the ASTM D-6751 standard, the EU standard, or the Ausie standard good bye. Think of it as walking a tight rope. With a balance bar and sound head about you, it's not a problem for nearly anyone of limitted ability to get across the rope. If one is prone to panic, impatience or need for extrely expeditious reactions, the balanced approach might not fit all that well. Thankfully, most biodieselers can afford to wait 24 hours for a reaction. In doing so, presuming they are also effectively able to reduce their base catalyst, they will save themselves enormous time and headache in the wash stages.
Re: [biofuel] Huge Hydrogen Stores Found Below Earth's Crust
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure you'd think of a better way. Courts, sure, and you're dead right about patents. Patents don't mean much these days, unless you're a big corp, and not even then - the big corps spend a lot of time and money fighting each other over patents, But I reckon you're being a little hard on your human brothers and sisters, I don't think we've fouled a lot of things up, pretty good record really, despite generally challenging circumstances of just about every conceivable type. But, brothers and sisters are one matter, but when it comes to our bosses, our betters and overlords and their various gangs, and all our committees, from village hall to Washington, wherever and whenever, yeah, they'd foul it up. Don't give the whole town a bad press just because of a couple of local thugs. Maybe you'd be looking for ways to give it away to ordinary folks, so that ordinary folks could keep hold of it. Hey, you might even get rich doing that, who knows? If you managed to do such a thing for the world I don't think it'd let you starve. Best Keith Please forgive my cynicism, but it's also very possible the inventor would be worse than broke, and possibly in jail. As soon as this wonderful machine made it to market, the Big Energy Corps would have their own version, with a slight change made and patented, and would have you in Court for Patent infringement until your legal bills are so high your grandchildren won't be able to pay them off. The fact that you were the original inventor of the concept would be of no consequence to them. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Acrylamides, medium-risk carcinogens, found in some fried high-carb foods
I think it might be an erroneous assumption to compare biodiesel to high-temperature fried potato sticks... Is that potato or potatoe?...Just kidding...[Standard US joke post what was his name?...oh... Dan Quayle.] Remember first that acrolein is a heavy byproduct of incomplete combustion of glycerin. Were the glycerin removed from glycerides, as is done in transesterification reactions (biodiesel manufacture), the acrylamid and acrolein fractures are not as existant as they are in the French or American frys we eat. I wouldn't put my nose to the exhaust pipe, but most of the concern has been eliminated. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:30 AM Subject: [biofuel] Acrylamides, medium-risk carcinogens, found in some fried high-carb foods http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storyu=/nm/20020424/hl_nm/ cancer_bread_1 I wonder if biodiesels made from used grease from such substances would have an out if the acrylamide might not be as harmful unless ingested orally? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Cheap Alcohol in Vermont? - 2
He would do well to contact his states Dept of Revenue and ask what permits are needed in his state of residence. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the US, home brewers need to get a small fuel producer permit from the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. It is fairly easy to aquire, and denaturing is not required for ethanol consumed on premises. BATF Alcohol Programs -- FAQs, Information, Permits, Regulations: http://www.atf.treas.gov/alcohol/index.htm agree Steve, did not mean to imply otherwise. The permit is free from ATF and takes around 60 days. Terry steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: unless he gets the small fuel producer permit, he will find himself in more trouble than a drug peddler. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Terry Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 11:42 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Cheap Alcohol in Vermont? - 1 Why dont you make your own? After all this is what this is all about. Terry D. Wilhelm The Revenoor Co. INC www.revenoor.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of a dealer/supplier in the New England area of ethanol or methanol? I am trying to drop costs in my production to make it more appealing to those institutions (Middlebury College, U. Vermont, etc.)interested in biodiesel. Thanks, Ron Schildge [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] biodiesel in nederland colorado?
Okay... Is this an obvious declaration of a need to develop a biodieseler's index of small producers? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Theresa Cecot To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 1:11 PM Subject: [biofuel] biodiesel in nederland colorado? help looking for a supplier of biodiesel. anyone out there, community or group, who has started from ground zero that has info on how to begin... __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/k6cvND/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
