Re: [biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail
x-charset ISO-8859-1Whilst I in no way advocate carelessness when handling chemicals the dangers should be put into perspective. A comparison of the Material Safety Data Sheets for methanol and petrol (gas in US) show some similarities in dangers. Chemicals can be handled safely. Be forewarned of the dangers and design your processing around them. Regards, Paul Gobert. - Original Message - From: Go Hoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:09 AM Subject: [biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail There are warnings all over alt fuel sites about dealing with methanol because of course it is nasty poisonous stuff. I have not been experimenting with the process cuss the info on 'journey' and elsewhere scared me. However I just started re-talking to an old friend who has been driving methanol race cars for 34 years. He is a non drooling family man with 5 children and a multitude of grandchildren with a vitality many 30 year olds lack. Apart from messing with methanol 6 months of the year he does a lot of head slamming, violent body 'G' forced exercises, explosions, engulfing fires and heavy disagreements between crew and promoters - between rounds, routinely. I get the impression that he and his crew sort of slop methanol around from the barrel to the container to the race car - he assures me they do not wear special clothing or breathing apparatus, he doesn't remember if they wear gloves but supposes they do if they have them on at the time. I remember buying an USA made hammer in the 70*s it was hung with labels and stuff saying to wear protective glasses, gloves, overalls etc and to keep children and pets away, not to leave it unattended and to hide it or lock it up from potential thieves - failure to do any of that stuff would void it's warranty - it was a hammer for goodness sakes - are you Americans nuts? Anyway, I would really like to know if anyone has died by handling - not drinking because that is deathly - methanol, and if so if the poison intrudes through the skin or the airways. Hmm... I Guess this is a bit beyond our competence maybe but even my doctor agrees, stay curiouse - try and work it out. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] ox2engine
That is one of the things that caught my attention also. They seem tohave no technical information about their engine. This is one of the reasons I posted the web address here so that I could get some feedback since I am not mechanically inclined. I would love to read other peoples feedback. Ash __ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:01:48 -0500 From: Alan Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ox2engine Ash Sawhney wrote: Boy, these daily digest's keep getting larger and larger. Anyways, I thought I would drop this link to a company many of you may a;ready be familiar with. It seems like they are making good progress and teir engine seems to be a flex fuel engine: http://www.ox2engine.com I looked at their site, and I don't like what I see. They make claims like high power to weight ratio, technology appropriate for 0-many hundred horsepower engines, and 6 times the leverage of conventional piston engines without actually saying anything. They say little about their technology. They say nothing at all about actual figures for actual engine output. They show a picture of an engine mounted on a dynamometer, but nothing about what kind of figures it produced. In fact, they say more about their financial issues than they do about their engine, which I find bothersome. Sorry, but I think at this point the OX2 engine is at best vaporware. AP - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel Development Grants
Here is a current grant program that might be useful for a biodiesel development project. My one track mind recently. 1. http://www.science.doe.gov/production/grants/fr04-01.html Continuation of Solicitation for the Office of Science Financial Assistance Program - Notice DE-FG01-04ER04-01 It is anticipated that approximately $400 million will be available for grant and cooperative agreement awards in Fiscal Year 2004. Purpose: Develop new concepts and improve existing methods for solar energy conversion and other major energy research needs identified in the 2003 B asic Energy Sciences Advisory Committee workshop report, Basic Research Needs to Assure a Secure Energy Future. Energy Biosciences: The objective of this program is to generate an understanding of fundamental biological mechanisms in plants and microorganisms. The emphasis is on understanding biological processes that will be the foundation for technology developments related to DOE's mission to achieve environmentally responsible production and conversion of renewable resources for fuels, chemicals, and other energy-enriched products. This program has special requirements for the submission of preapplications, when to submit, and the length of the applications. Applicants are encouraged to contact the program regarding these requirements. Program Contact: Phone - (301) 903-2873 E-mail - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.science.doe.gov/bes/eb/ebhome.html - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Brazil sees NYBOT contract boosting ethanol market
IMO there's no good reason to keep trading in ethanol so insulated from other market forces. Let it be more transparent and part-of-the-process, is my thought. http://www.forbes.com/business/newswire/2004/03/05/rtr1288312.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Other Ethanol News and PR
http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/local/scn-sa-gas4mar05,0,7797590.story?coll=stam-news-local-headlines http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040304/cgth036_1.html http://www.agrinewsinteractive.com/fullstory.htm?ArticleID=5741ShowSection=Front%20Page http://webstar.postbulletin.com/agrinews/313804255160231.bsp http://www.courier-journal.com/business/news2004/03/02/F1-ethanol02-3635.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Bush Administration Concerned About Gasoline Price
How does one preface this? I think just a quiet Oh? Really? http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNewsstoryID=4499358 By Chris Baltimore WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration is extremely concerned about soaring retail gasoline prices, which recently topped $1.70 per gallon nationwide and may be poised to set record highs, its energy head said Thursday. This administration is extremely concerned, U.S. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham told reporters after testifying before a Senate appropriations subcommittee on the department's proposed budget for fiscal 2005. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail
Go Hoff wrote: I remember buying an USA made hammer in the 70*s it was hung with labels and stuff saying to wear protective glasses, gloves, overalls etc and to keep children and pets away, not to leave it unattended and to hide it or lock it up from potential thieves - failure to do any of that stuff would void it's warranty - it was a hammer for goodness sakes - are you Americans nuts? Some of us are. . . A lot of us are careful. The warning labels exist for those who are not, in order to ensure that liability in our litigatious (is that a word???) society falls where it really belongs! Anyway, I would really like to know if anyone has died by handling - not drinking because that is deathly - methanol, and if so if the poison intrudes through the skin or the airways. Prolonged contact with skin, any contact with mucous membranes and the inhalation of vapors are where the toxicology problems with methanol exist. Open biodiesel processors represent a serious potential hazard because of the potential exposure to vapors. (I abandoned methanol as a working fluid in an Organic Rankine project of mine for this reason.) There's a lot of excellent info from experienced people in the archives about how to minimize or eliminate exposure risk. Methanol IS nasty, and some of its effects are permanent. Caution and respect is a good thing. However, fire is also nasty and can kill. Following safety procedures will protect you from the nasty effects while enabling you to enjoy the benefits of this very useful chemical. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re:[biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hi This, hopefully, is my first successful post. My 3 previous ones never appeared. Anyways. Methanol is not a major problem, provided you take reasonable precautions. We go through a fair bit of the stuff (several drums every month). We ground the drums, ventilate the area and make sure that fumes are removed. We've been using it for over 20 years with no injuries unless you count the guy who dropped a drum on his toe while showing how easy it was to handle the drums. Please don't ask for details, its a painful memory, but the toe only hurt for a couple of days. Gloves, eye protection and organic vapour masks are specified and not optional. The vapours are heavier than air and quite flammable at the right percentages, but then so is gas and cheap scotch. When I used to mix fuel for modified snowmobiles methanol was the least toxic of the stuff I used to use. Nitro Methane and Nitro Benzene were far worse while the 111 Trichorethylene we cleaned with is something I just don't want to think about. No gloves and no masks, just youth heavily laced with bravado and stupidity. If you use the stuff outside for racing or whatever then the vapours disperse unless you are in an enclosed area. In that case an organic vapour mask is not at all a bad idea and be careful of vapour buildup. There is quite a lot of information on toxicity at http://www.inchem.org/documents/hsg/hsg/v105hsg.htm. If you think you're going to get your hands wet I'd use latex gloves and not nitrile. Both provide excellent protection from methanol, but latex is better for NaOH. http://www.adenna.com/pdf/Chemicals%20Resistance.pdf . I'm assuming that you're mixing for biodiesel. By the way, bought my first biodiesel today in Unionville, Ontario. Ran my truck for a bit and in less than 10 kilometers the engine quieted down and seems much smoother. Subjective I know, but I think that I'll record some decibel readings at various speeds and then retry it with straight diesel. I've gotta get into production. Hope this helps Regards Paul Marks 2003 F250 SD Crewcab. 5months 26,000 km 1984 300SD Mercedes (converting to WVO) 267,000 km 1988 GM 18' flatbed diesel - no idea of km various gas propane electric - Original Message - From: Go Hoff To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: [biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail There are warnings all over alt fuel sites about dealing with methanol because of course it is nasty poisonous stuff. I have not been experimenting with the process cuss the info on 'journey' and elsewhere scared me. However I just started re-talking to an old friend who has been driving methanol race cars for 34 years. He is a non drooling family man with 5 children and a multitude of grandchildren with a vitality many 30 year olds lack. Apart from messing with methanol 6 months of the year he does a lot of head slamming, violent body 'G' forced exercises, explosions, engulfing fires and heavy disagreements between crew and promoters - between rounds, routinely. I get the impression that he and his crew sort of slop methanol around from the barrel to the container to the race car - he assures me they do not wear special clothing or breathing apparatus, he doesn't remember if they wear gloves but supposes they do if they have them on at the time. I remember buying an USA made hammer in the 70*s it was hung with labels and stuff saying to wear protective glasses, gloves, overalls etc and to keep children and pets away, not to leave it unattended and to hide it or lock it up from potential thieves - failure to do any of that stuff would void it's warranty - it was a hammer for goodness sakes - are you Americans nuts? Anyway, I would really like to know if anyone has died by handling - not drinking because that is deathly - methanol, and if so if the poison intrudes through the skin or the airways. Hmm... I Guess this is a bit beyond our competence maybe but even my doctor agrees, stay curiouse - try and work it out. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re:[biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail
Hi Paul Hi This, hopefully, is my first successful post. My 3 previous ones never appeared. Anyways. See previous about Lost posts. Methanol is not a major problem, provided you take reasonable precautions. We go through a fair bit of the stuff (several drums every month). We ground the drums, ventilate the area and make sure that fumes are removed. We've been using it for over 20 years with no injuries unless you count the guy who dropped a drum on his toe while showing how easy it was to handle the drums. Please don't ask for details, its a painful memory, but the toe only hurt for a couple of days. Gloves, eye protection and organic vapour masks are specified and not optional. Organic vapour masks do not work with methanol. This is a summing up of previous messages posted by Mark and Jeff (to Biodiesel): From Mark: It turns out that organic vapor cartridge respirators are useless against methanol vapors. Methanol handling/methoxide mixing can be done in a completely enclosed environment as well, rather easily and inexpensively, so don't panic, but it's time to get rid of all our open-tank methoxide mixers (a la Tickell). I devised a decent carboy-based non-mechanically-agitated system to minimise methoxide handling here (look at journeytoforever.org for the 'methoxide the easy way' description, it's the start of that carboy system I've got) which can then be plumbed into a closed processor easily. there are many other ways that others have accomplished this as well. I have copied some info below (I believe it might be from the 3M site, but what I saw from more 'neutral' sources was very similar to 3M's recommendation not to use organic vapor cartridges for longer than a few hours max) OSHA and the other safety regulators all had the same answer when we called them: no organic vapor cartridge respirator will protect against methanol vapors, only a supplied-air system will do so. From Jeff: Here is the response to my letter asking about the frequency of filter cartridge changes. Also below is the OSHA blurb on reuse of cartridges and exposure limits for Methanol as well as the results of breakthrough tests for a variety of compounds. Jeffery Jeff, Unfortunately, a chemical cartridge is not available for methanol vapors. Although it's considered an organic vapor, an organic vapor cartridge doesn't work well. The only option for protection against methanol is to use a supplied air system. So, rather than trying to enclose yourself, enclose the methanol, not a problem. See: Methoxide the easy way http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html#easymeth Adding the methoxide http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html#methadd The vapours are heavier than air and quite flammable at the right percentages, but then so is gas and cheap scotch. When I used to mix fuel for modified snowmobiles methanol was the least toxic of the stuff I used to use. Nitro Methane and Nitro Benzene were far worse while the 111 Trichorethylene we cleaned with is something I just don't want to think about. I also don't want to think about that. The things they didn't tell us! No gloves and no masks, just youth heavily laced with bravado and stupidity. If you use the stuff outside for racing or whatever then the vapours disperse unless you are in an enclosed area. In that case an organic vapour mask is not at all a bad idea and be careful of vapour buildup. There is quite a lot of information on toxicity at http://www.inchem.org/documents/hsg/hsg/v105hsg.htm. If you think you're going to get your hands wet I'd use latex gloves and not nitrile. Both provide excellent protection from methanol, but latex is better for NaOH. http://www.adenna.com/pdf/Chemicals%20Resistance.pdf . I'm assuming that you're mixing for biodiesel. By the way, bought my first biodiesel today in Unionville, Ontario. Ran my truck for a bit and in less than 10 kilometers the engine quieted down and seems much smoother. Subjective I know, but I think that I'll record some decibel readings at various speeds and then retry it with straight diesel. I've gotta get into production. Hope this helps Regards Paul Marks 2003 F250 SD Crewcab. 5months 26,000 km 1984 300SD Mercedes (converting to WVO) 267,000 km 1988 GM 18' flatbed diesel - no idea of km various gas propane electric - Original Message - From: Go Hoff To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: [biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail There are warnings all over alt fuel sites about dealing with methanol because of course it is nasty poisonous stuff. I have not been experimenting with the process cuss the info on 'journey' and elsewhere scared me. Then you overreacted Go. The warnings are necessary, but at our site anyway it adds this: On the other hand, a lot of people are doing it -- it's safe enough if you're careful and sensible. As you can see here - a lot of people
Lost posts - was Re:[biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail
Hi Paul Hi This, hopefully, is my first successful post. My 3 previous ones never appeared. Anyways. Yahoo has no record of any previous posts from you. Yahoo doesn't actually lose any posts. Either your previous posts didn't get as far as Yahoo (in which case any problem is at your end) or Yahoo bounced you. I've sent warnings to the list about this: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32153/ In other words a message from one group or another to you gets blocked or is undeliverable for one reason or another, so Yahoo suspends your account until the problem is solved. And (get this) sends you an email message to say your email account isn't working, sheesh. If that message or a subsequent message (they send test messages) isn't blocked, then they unbounce you. The fact that you can now send messages which arrive means that you're not bounced now, and if you were previously you'd have been sent at least one email message. If that didn't happen then the problem is at your end. Anyone not getting messages as usual can go here to check (you'll have to sign in with your Yahoo ID and password): http://groups.yahoo.com/myprefs?edit=2 Best wishes Keith Addison List owner snip Hope this helps Regards Paul Marks 2003 F250 SD Crewcab. 5months 26,000 km 1984 300SD Mercedes (converting to WVO) 267,000 km 1988 GM 18' flatbed diesel - no idea of km various gas propane electric - Original Message - From: Go Hoff To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:09 AM Subject: [biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re:[biofuel] Methanol Hazards - provocative mail
x-charset ISO-8859-1I've been trying to set up this experiment, which has not been done to date by anyone I know of. My experience is that it takes about a month of driving to get the engine noise back to full blast after using any portion of biodiesel. So if you do this, maximize the original conditions and record the engine noise at the front and sides at a set distance with a decibel meter. Then add some biodiesel, B20 or B100 as you wish, run those 10 km and do the exact same measurements again. I've got the meter if you want to borrow it. let us all know the results! Tom In a message dated 3/6/04 1:06:28 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By the way, bought my first biodiesel today in Unionville, Ontario. Ran my truck for a bit and in less than 10 kilometers the engine quieted down and seems much smoother.Subjective I know, but I think that I'll record some decibel readings at various speeds and then retry it with straight diesel.I've gotta get into production. Hope this helps Regards Paul Marks - Homestead Inc. www.yellowbiodiesel.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
[biofuel] WVO Aging Test/ Finished Fuel Aging
Greetings List: I think an Aging Test on WVO would be a good idea. Use one set of same source WVO kept at eg: 45 degrees, another at 80. Subsets exposed to light, and not. (Assume air exposure is bad, and limit that.) Kept for 30, 90, 180 days. Then processed, and evaluated for yield and performance in engines. Having facts about WVO aging is important if one were to contract for large quantities and hold it due to processing limits. Obviously, better to process it and hold it as fuel, although testing to see how storage affects the fuel would be a good idea, too. Or, maybe someone has done this in a systematic and not anecdotal way already?Results?Anyone? Randal --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.611 / Virus Database: 391 - Release Date: 3/3/2004 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Good Mercedes Diesel Engines
hi Brett! kinda' late because i've had mail problems, but i'll take a crack at this,...;-) (there are many other models available in other countries, but i'll stick to what we got in the USofA.) the 4-cyl 240D and the 5-cyl non-turbo 300D share many parts and are generally considered to be some of the best all-round diesels MB ever made. however, by many accounts, the 617 300D Turbo might be the cream of the crop; not only do you get the extra efficiency and/or power of the turbo, many of the parts in the engine of the turbo version are rumored to be heftier even than in its non-turbo brethren. i like the (relatively) smaller W123 body style that you can find these motors in starting with 240s in the late 70s progressing to the non-turbo 300Ds, and finally the 300D Turbos. 617 300D Turbos (a.k.a. the 300DT) started in the W123s with the 300TD wagons in '81, with the 300D sedans and 300CD coupes following in '82 and going through '85. (one oddity to be aware of is the Particulate Trap used in the '85 California cars; Mercedes is still replacing these with at least the 3rd generation version under a currently open campaign... but that's not even an issue with the '85 Federal cars.) the same 617 motor can be found in some 300SDs as well, but i'm not as familiar with the particulars on those as i just never cared for the larger W126 body style. some people like the 6 cyl 603 motor found in the '87 300D (and a few other models) due to its extra power, but it seems to be more troublesome and parts aren't as common for it due to its more limited production. as with using any diesel in your area, you're going to have to make some special considerations; even petro-diesel users in that area often need to take advantage of heating systems for the fuel system, engine block, and battery due to the low temps you have there. MBZ had block heaters and assorted goodies available, and there are kits available for SVO conversions that you could use (or just use some of the components of) to get around the low temp and fuel gelling issues. cheers! e '85 300(bio)D Keith Addison wrote: Fwd from list member Brett, who's having some technical problems with his account. He can read the list though, so replies onlist please. Best Keith From: Brett Dobmeier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Good Mercedes Diesel Engines Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:41:54 + I was wondering what model, year, or type of Mercedes diesel engine would be good to try bio-diesel or SVO on. I am looking at a early to mid 1980's car. Is there an engine that would tolerate these fuels better than others? I have read many posts on here and have been gaining a lot of knowledge from it, and have also heard/read good things about the Mercedes diesel's lasting forever it seems. I am a college student in Minnesota and drive 80 miles a day down to school and would like something more fuel effecient than my 3/4 ton Dodge truck w/Cummins diesel (which I need for work), I also don't really want to try these fuels on my truck yet in the event something would go wrong and it would result in an overhaul. I read a while back that there was a gentleman that had a similar truck to mine and was going to try and use SVO or bio diesel on it along with a Webasto heater to try and get a turn the key and go system with out any warm up time required because of the Webasto, anyone know how that went or is going? Thanks for your input Brett Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] gasoline
x-charset ISO-8859-1Hey all.I know that ethanol is alot cleaner burning than gasoline,and is renewable.Those are its good points.On the downsinde,it has a much lower heat value than gasoline,making it necessary to use more at a time for the same amount of power.Does any one know of a way to produce a renewable,environmentally friendly fuel with a heat value similar to gasoline that can be used in gasoline engines? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ /x-charset
Re: [biofuel] gasoline
Well, it's an interesting question. As a side-issue I have to say that I have never quite understood why the energy content per Gallon of Ethanol is such a big deal. A so-called Downside. So you have to build a slightly bigger fuel tank. Big deal. It's only about 27%-29% less, or so, in energy content per gallon. That is annoying, and, as I said, I agree that you have a good question going, if only for intellectual interest, but I don't see so much of a downside to this aspect of ethanol. Maybe others do. It has nothing basically to do with mileage, in my view, which is what I think some (but not all) people are getting at when they criticize the lower energy density of ethanol. A good way to measure mileage, in my view, is miles-per-unit-energy, not miles per gallon since different fuels have different energy densities per unit volume (and different masses per unit volume, for that matter). Sure, it's true that if ethanol is generally apportioned into cars in gallons, and if costs are compared, this makes it even harder to argue for ethanol (in over-simplified arguments) but I think the basic economic argument, if such a simple argument is to be part of the discussion, should focus on $/mile, not $/gallon. Each fuel has its own way of doing things. You probably didn't mean for me to get into much of this, so as I said, just using it as a foil for a side issue. MM On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:25:40 -, you wrote: Hey all.I know that ethanol is alot cleaner burning than gasoline,and is renewable.Those are its good points.On the downsinde,it has a much lower heat value than gasoline,making it necessary to use more at a time for the same amount of power.Does any one know of a way to produce a renewable,environmentally friendly fuel with a heat value similar to gasoline that can be used in gasoline engines? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
