[biofuel] Re: Why we need more oil and why ecology laws should be disregarded
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, jkolling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apparently 60% of all living species on earth are currently under threat of extinction. (Seen today, as claimed by researchers, journalists and reporters of the documentary-makers of one of the most respected worldnews programs called 'nova' in the netherlands with the title: the frozen ark of noah) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Don't know where this is coming from as there is a lot more wildlife in my area and other areas nearby than ever before? Andrew Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] NEW MEMBER.....MY THOUGHTS
Hi all, Andrew from Scotland. I have been looking into bio-fuels (BF) for a while and this group is another addition to my collection of knowledge regarding BF. I would like to find out about trying to make some ethanol. I am not a chemist and have little knowledge of the process but in my spare time I am reading more and more about the methods used, quite interesting but need 'ethanol for dummies' I think! I wouldn't like to experiment unless I knew what I was doing and that my car would accept it. If I was to make any I would mix it 10% in my fuel initially but it would be interesting to find out what needs done to the car to run on more pure ethanol say 85% or even 100%, that is if I do manage to produce really good fuel. If anyone would care to highlight the ups and downs of the processes or feels they might have some useful info. please contact me, I would be grateful to hear a real story about it. Andrew Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Overstating the bad, just a little
Hi Keith, Re the nitrogen issue: there is another way in which exhausted land can be rejuvenated. Crop rotation is the biblical method whereby an area of land is left fallow each year and rotated year by year through a preset planting and fallow cycle (generally fallow every fourth year). The nitrogen level in the soil can be augmented with the planting of any legume or pod-bearer e.g. peas, beans, alfafa, lucerne etc. during the fallow period. Leguminous plants, such as the above, process nitrogen from the air and transfer it to their roots. In the case of peas, beans and other food legumens the crop is harvested and the roots and stalks left to rot. Non-harvestable legumes e.g.lucerne, gorse are ploughed in. In all cases the nitrogen rich roots are left in the ground where they decay rapidly and release their nutrients in time for the next year's crop. Regards, Bob. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] In Line WVO Strainer
I am sure that certain folks could put a product such as this to good use. It is an in-line strainer for used oils to get the chunks out, so if anyone is using a pump to get at their used oil this seems to be something useful.Cheap too. US distributor reputed to be bad with international orders though. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf? itemnumber=46184 L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Why we need more oil and why ecology laws should be disregarded
on 8/1/04 4:09 PM, andys280176 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't know where this is coming from as there is a lot more wildlife in my area and other areas nearby than ever before? uhhh, yeah ... wut HE said !! I gotta lotta them raccoons in my yard to... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Why we need more oil and why ecology laws should be disregarded
a fox, a bird and a squirrel isn't exactly representing all the living species on earth. and those are the bigger animals. maybe you just misunderstood the thing i was trying to convey and just wanted to tell us about the nice place you are living in? ;) since when is 'ever before'? a year ago? two, three, five? that's not very scientific. and what has been counted? most, and i'll say most, of the endangered species are not exactly around your place, anyway. or would you be thinking that some scientists plug in the freezer for no reason? Apparently 60% of all living species on earth are currently under threat of extinction. (Seen today, as claimed by researchers, journalists and reporters of the documentary-makers of one of the most respected worldnews programs called 'nova' in the netherlands with the title: the frozen ark of noah) Don't know where this is coming from as there is a lot more wildlife in my area and other areas nearby than ever before? Andrew [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Why we need more oil and why ecology laws should be disregarded
andys280176 wrote: Don't know where this is coming from as there is a lot more wildlife in my area and other areas nearby than ever before? Andrew What kind of wildlife? Are you seeing more deer, raccoons, opossums, English Sparrows, crows, insects and other adaptive species? What kind of wildlife inhabited your region in the past, and what were their numbers? Can you quantify your remarks, or are they based on anecdotal observation? Do you understand the full extent of human impact on your local watershed? robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=9782 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Overstating the bad, just a little
Hi Bob Hi Keith, Re the nitrogen issue: Or non-issue? there is another way in which exhausted land can be rejuvenated. Crop rotation is the biblical method Not just a biblical method, it's worldwide, impossible to say where it originated - no single place would probably be the answer. whereby an area of land is left fallow each year and rotated year by year through a preset planting and fallow cycle (generally fallow every fourth year). The nitrogen level in the soil can be augmented with the planting of any legume or pod-bearer e.g. peas, beans, alfafa, lucerne etc. during the fallow period. Leguminous plants, such as the above, process nitrogen from the air and transfer it to their roots. In the case of peas, beans and other food legumens the crop is harvested and the roots and stalks left to rot. Non-harvestable legumes e.g.lucerne, gorse are ploughed in. In all cases the nitrogen rich roots are left in the ground where they decay rapidly and release their nutrients in time for the next year's crop. Rotation of various kinds is an essential part of a sustainable system, but on its own its not a very efficient way of rejuvenating exhausted land, especially when it focuses mainly on nitrogen levels. These are mainly green-manuring techniques; usually the plants are ploughed in just before flowering, when there's a maximum of soft, green tissue that's indeed nitrogen-rich, but has little or no effect on the humus supply, nor its condition, which is much more important. Weather conditions are suitable for humus-building by green-manuring maybe once in seven years, and it's not a reliable average. Again, leguminous plants do indeed fix atmospheric nitrogen in their roots (and not the only things that do so), but the more fertile the soil the more nitrogen they fix, and in poor soils it's often not very much. Rich, fertile soils also have hosts of free-living microorganisms, e.g., Azotobacter, that do the same thing as the rhizobia strains do with legume roots. Releasing nutrients in time for next year's crop also isn't quite so simple. Again, it's not simply a physical or chemical process. Most soils have two nitrogen flushes a year, with large amounts of nitrogen made available to plants by the soil microorganisms from the available resources, if any (soil organic matter in various states). The art of it lies in catching these flushes and capturing the nitrogen they provide in growing crops. All of this leaves out a more important soil process for plant growth, mycorrhizal activity. See: Trees and Toadstools by M.C. Rayner, 1945 http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#rayner Simply put, in a healthy soil plant roots are invaded by a friendly soil fungus; the fungus actually feeds the plant, and in return the plant feeds the fungus the products of the green leaf which the fungus is unable to make for itself. At least it should be a more important soil process for plant growth, but in soils abused by chemical fertilizers the vital fungi that do the work are usually either dead or ailing. Anyway, mere crop-rotation and green-manuring do little for mycorrhiza. That needs humus-building. Also, there's no need for the fallow, that's easily sidestepped. Once you add livestock to the equation, especially grazing livestock, it becomes a quite different matter. Now your fourth-year fallow can become the most productive part of the whole cycle - and at the same time it creates huge amounts of fertility, more than enough for the next three years of crop production at least. This is called ley farming - the temporary grass ley is the fallow, used for heavy grazing. The grass isn't just grass, it's up to 25 different varieties of grasses, legumes, and deep-rooting herbs (aka weeds). The basis of this is the Clifton Park system developed by Robert Elliot. You can read about it here: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/elliot/cliftonToC.html Clifton Park - Contents I'm currently scanning more work on this, especially work done at Aberystwyth by George Stapledon. You just won't figure this out if you focus on the mechanics of it and the chemical nutrients, it doesn't work that way. This is from our website: Ley Farming by Sir R. George Stapledon and William Davies, 1948, Faber Faber, London. Sow a piece of land with a good pasture mixture and then divide it in two with a fence. Graze one half heavily and repeatedly with cattle, mow the other half as necessary and leave the mowings there in place to decay back into the soil. On the grazed half, you've removed the crop (several times) and taken away a large yield of milk and beef. On the other half you've removed nothing. Plough up both halves and plant a grain crop, or any crop. Which half has the bigger and better yield? The grazed half, by far. Ley Farming explains why grass is the most important crop and how to manage grass leys. Leys are temporary pastures in a rotation, and
[biofuel] Re: NEW MEMBER.....MY THOUGHTS
Hello Andrew Hi all, Andrew from Scotland. I have been looking into bio-fuels (BF) for a while and this group is another addition to my collection of knowledge regarding BF. I would like to find out about trying to make some ethanol. I am not a chemist and have little knowledge of the process but in my spare time I am reading more and more about the methods used, quite interesting but need 'ethanol for dummies' I think! It's there already. See this recent message: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37219/ Re: [biofuel] ethanol use Also: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html Ethanol http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html Ethanol resources on the Web http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html Biofuels Library I wouldn't like to experiment unless I knew what I was doing and that my car would accept it. If I was to make any I would mix it 10% in my fuel initially but it would be interesting to find out what needs done to the car to run on more pure ethanol say 85% or even 100%, that is if I do manage to produce really good fuel. If anyone would care to highlight the ups and downs of the processes or feels they might have some useful info. please contact me, I would be grateful to hear a real story about it. Please don't take such discussions offlist unless there's a good reason for it. This is what the list is for - if you discuss it onlist everyone can take part, everyone can share the answers, and it all goes into the list archives where anyone can find it in the future. Best wishes Keith Addison Andrew Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Engine life and cold starting
I just changed the oil to my Hyundai Starex 2.5L van and on the oil it said that 75 % engine wear happens while the engine is warming. Would it do any good if the water in the engine was heated with a kettle resistance or some other device? Or is the wear caused more by the the fact that the engine is not well oiled when you start it up? If so then maby one could use the starter motor with low apms to turn it slowly a few times for it to oil itself, and then start. Heating the engine could help SVO users aswell. Maby a kettle resistance in a Piece of PVC pump and a washingmachine pump put in series with the output of the radiator can do this??? But ofcourse you would need a plug in your carpark or whereever. Maby a small diesel stove? Teoman __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Hybrid vehicle technologies - a question
I have a question about the currently available hybrid vehicles which I have been wondering about for a while. It seems that all the hybrid vehicles currently available have an electric motor connected in varying configurations with a petrol (gasoline) engine. My question is, why not a Diesel engine? Given that the aim of a hybrid vehicle is to increase fuel economy, it would seem sensible to choose the most economical internal combustion engine available, however it seems that _none_ of them do - there must be a reason for this, but this reason escapes me. Is it that hybrid vehicles are primarily marketed in the USA, where use of Diesel fuel is not widely accepted for private cars? (European-marketed hybrids are all petrol not diesel too though). Or is it because of the lower power-to-weight ratio, which is already a limitation with heavy batteries? Or maybe because Diesel engines are more expensive, and having a Diesel hybrid would be too expensive on capital outlay to be acceptable to the consumer (despite what should be excellent running costs)? Does anyone know the answer, or have any insight (!) into this? Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
I'm preparing a presentation to the local Sierra club and I can't seem to find the statistic on the amount of wvo available in the US versus the amount of diesel fuel used. The total vegetable oil that could be made into diesel would be a nice figure too. Anyone have that around? Thanks! Steve __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
steven mesibov wrote: I'm preparing a presentation to the local Sierra club and I can't seem to find the statistic on the amount of wvo available in the US versus the amount of diesel fuel used. The total vegetable oil that could be made into diesel would be a nice figure too. Actually, I don't find that to be a very meaningful number in a free market. If the demand created for domestically produced biofuels out strips the latent supply of WVO, or even SVO for biodiesel production, new non-food oil feedstocks will enter the marketplace. These feedstocks could include dual purpose crops such as mustard, or it could include novel feedstocks such as algae-sourced oil. Mike Briggs at UNH is currently working in this area. Here is a nice little summary: http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html All that having been said, I *believe* that the current US WVO supply could displace about 7% of petrodiesel use. However, I don't have a citation so don't quote me. John Hayes Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hybrid vehicle technologies - a question
http://www.thesmart.co.uk/index.html ,sells a diesel/electric hybrid Donald Allwright wrote: I have a question about the currently available hybrid vehicles which I have been wondering about for a while. It seems that all the hybrid vehicles currently available have an electric motor connected in varying configurations with a petrol (gasoline) engine. My question is, why not a Diesel engine? Given that the aim of a hybrid vehicle is to increase fuel economy, it would seem sensible to choose the most economical internal combustion engine available, however it seems that _none_ of them do - there must be a reason for this, but this reason escapes me. Is it that hybrid vehicles are primarily marketed in the USA, where use of Diesel fuel is not widely accepted for private cars? (European-marketed hybrids are all petrol not diesel too though). Or is it because of the lower power-to-weight ratio, which is already a limitation with heavy batteries? Or maybe because Diesel engines are more expensive, and having a Diesel hybrid would be too expensive on capital outlay to be acceptable to the consumer (despite what should be excellent running costs)? Does anyone know the answer, or have any insight (!) into this? Regards, Donald = -- 43 - slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links -- -- Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob -- - The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] % diesel used versus amount of wvo available
Hello Steve I'm preparing a presentation to the local Sierra club and I can't seem to find the statistic on the amount of wvo available in the US versus the amount of diesel fuel used. :-) If you mention the D-word there the sky will fall on your head. Actually, if you can even get them to listen, you're doing very well! Good for you. Others here have tried and got nowhere. Which might be why it's often known here as Club Sierra. If you find accurate data on the amount of WVO available in the US, let alone it's fate, then again you're doing much better than anyone else here has done. (Please let us know!) The best we can do is that it's about 2 or 3 billion gallons a year, and that about 10% of it is accounted for, which is about average for the OECD countries. Estimates we've seen for the US, the UK and other industrialised countries vary by up to a factor of 10. Which is quite an eye-opener in itself. If you can't get accurate figures, that very fact is worth presenting - why not? Yet we're supposed to pretend that government or anyone else is taking biofuels and climate change seriously? I can see you're trying to answer the usual question of whether there'll be enough biofuels. We tend to think it's the wrong question. Enough for what? To replace current fossil-fuel use? Or some estimate of future use, based on projections of current growth rates? That's what the US DoE has done in its estimates for biodiesel expansion. Why would current growth rates be sustainable, no matter what fuel was used? Current usage rates aren't sustainable either. The related question is How much biofuels can we grow? The answer, based on the same fallacy, is usually, Not enough, so let's just forget the whole thing. People have said this is a tactic used to dismiss alternatives, picking them off this way one by one - as if current energy supply is dependent on only one source, only one technology. A rational and sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use, great improvements in energy efficiency, and the decentralisation of supply to the local level, along with the use of all available renewable technologie in combination as the local circumstances demand. That makes for rather a different prospect for WVO's role in future fuel supplies. The total vegetable oil that could be made into diesel would be a nice figure too. Again, wrong question. Any number you get would be meaningless. Please have a look at these previous messages: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/37289/ Re: [biofuel] Biofuels and sustainability http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1801/ Re: Biofuels hold key to future of British farming http://archive.nnytech.net/sgroup/BIOFUELS-BIZ/1395/ How much fuel can we grow? HTH Best Keith Anyone have that around? Thanks! Steve Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hybrid vehicle technologies - a question
Hello Donald I have a question about the currently available hybrid vehicles which I have been wondering about for a while. It seems that all the hybrid vehicles currently available have an electric motor connected in varying configurations with a petrol (gasoline) engine. My question is, why not a Diesel engine? Given that the aim of a hybrid vehicle is to increase fuel economy, it would seem sensible to choose the most economical internal combustion engine available, however it seems that _none_ of them do - there must be a reason for this, but this reason escapes me. Is it that hybrid vehicles are primarily marketed in the USA, where use of Diesel fuel is not widely accepted for private cars? (European-marketed hybrids are all petrol not diesel too though). Or is it because of the lower power-to-weight ratio, which is already a limitation with heavy batteries? Or maybe because Diesel engines are more expensive, and having a Diesel hybrid would be too expensive on capital outlay to be acceptable to the consumer (despite what should be excellent running costs)? Does anyone know the answer, or have any insight (!) into this? Yes, the list archives does. :-) First though, there are quite a lot of diesel hybrids, in things like buses, not cars. And of course trains. Second, a couple of folks on the list are building their own. I'll do some of the archives work for you, it could use some fresh air. Mostly it's about PNGV, the US Parnership for a New Generation of Vehicles program launched by Gore and Clinton. More about it here, about halfway down (there are some other diesel hybrids on this page too): http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html Do diesels have a future? The US government/industry collaboration Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (PNGV), launched in 1993, was intended to reduce carbon dioxide emissions by developing ultra-clean, 80 miles-per-gallon (34 km/litre) hypercars without sacrificing comfort, safety or performance, focusing on cleaner and more efficient diesel engines. The program produced three cars, one from each of Detroit's Big Three, all diesel hybrids, all of which reached or nearly reached 80mpg, and were getting close to affordable prices, when the program was axed. This is an interesting document, a post-mortem: Advanced diesel engines were the clear choice of the PNGV process for quickly bringing to market a much more fuel-efficient vehicle. When placed within a hybrid vehicle architecture, they would be more efficient than the gasoline-powered Prius. Yet, advanced diesel engine hybrids are not destined to be on the road anytime soon. -- From: Today's Promises, Tomorrow's Cars? Lessons for FreedomCAR from the Ghosts of Supercars Past, a report analyzing the successes and failures of the PNGV program, and pointing out potential roadblocks to its successor, the FreedomCAR program. http://www.environmentaldefense.org/documents/3781_FreedomCAR_Final.pdf This is a fair pull-together: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30857/ Quite an eye-opener. A couple of the stories reffed there went and changed their links. You can find them here, worth a read: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/10937/ Driving In Circles New Fuel-Efficiency Initiative Is More PR Than Progress by Steven Rosenfeld The Bush administration is giving Detroit a subsidy to develop hydrogen-fueled cars. But if history is a guide, automakers will use the program to cover their lack of any real progress on fuel efficiency. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/20706/ Fool Cells How Detroit Plays Americans For A Bunch Of Suckers Jack Doyle Check out the Mokhiber-Weissman review of Doyle's book, Taken for a Ride: Detroit's Big Three and the Politics of Pollution: http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/corp-focus/2000/31.html What I've often asked about it is this: Whatever, I still want to know what happened to the PNGV technology - why has it just been shut away in some dark back room somewhere? It was publicly funded, it's public property, no? Dumb question, I guess. regards Keith Regards, Donald Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Anaerobic digestion of oil cake
Fwd from the Digestion Discussion List. Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:01:18 -0700 Reply-To: Art Krenzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: The Digestion Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Art Krenzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [DIG] AD of oil cake To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jacky Sivamalar, Dr. Karve, located in India, reports very positive results from the AD of oilcakes. There could be a problem with chemical contamination from the cleanup step in the extraction process. The expeller portion of the process produces clean oil. The followup step of solvent extraction could have some harmful residues depending upon the solvent which is used. Dr. Karve's latest report is as follows: We are now collaborating with a voluntary organization formed by a group of engineers.A school hostel in the town of Jawhar, Dist. Thane, Maharashtra, has a biogas plant having a capacity of producing daily 16cubic meters of biogas. Following my advice, they shifted to using oilcake of locally available non-edible oilseed cake as the feedstock. They get daily 16 cubic meters of biogas, using just 16 kg of the oilcake, which costs them only Rs.32 or USCents 70. The cake comes from three species, namely, Pongamia pinnata, Madhuka indica and Jatropha curcas.A colleague from the engineers' voluntary organization tested a petrol driven electricity generator on this biogas. They could generate electricity by running the generator entirely on biogas. A fortnight ago, I tested our biogas on a diesel-driven electricity generator. This generator could however replace only about 70% of the total diesel. Dr. Karve can be reached at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Art Krenzel, P.E. PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES 10505 NE 285TH Street Battle Ground, WA 98604 360-666-1883 voice [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Two-Stage Process Question
Iâve been reading up about the Two-Stage Process for making biodiesel and Iâm thinking of giving it a try, the question I have is how much more difficult is it to do? Most of the stuff Iâve read states the ãmore advancedä homebrewers should try it. Other than no titration and pouring ² of the catalyst in then draining the glycerin then adding the rest of the catalyst. This doesnât sound difficult at all, in fact it sounds easier since there is no need to titrate· So what am I missing?? MarkieB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: Anaerobic digestion of oil cake - more
More on this from Dr Karve. Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 20:04:45 +0530 Sender: The Stoves Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: adkarve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [STOVES] compact biogas system To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Tom, The system that I mentioned in my previous mail produces 16 cubic meters of biogas, using 16 kg of oilcake of non-edible oilseeds, once every 24hours. One would require 40 kg dung and fermentation period of 40 days to produce the same quantity of biogas. Because of the residual oil and the high protein content of the oilcake, its calorific value is much greater than that of starch from cereal grains, rhizomes or tubers. As a result, this particular system is 1600 times as efficient as the conventional biogas plants. Another person, with whom we are collaborating, has a biogas plant producing daily 40 cubic meters of gas. He used to feed it daily with 1000 kg dung, but now he is using daily a mixture of 200 kg cattle dung and 15 kg sorghum grain flour. He is reluctant to switch over completely to sorghum, as he feels that the bacteria may go on strike if they did not get their daily dose of dung. In his case, he replaces 800 kg dung by 15 kg flour and reduces the reaction time from 40 days to one day. He thus gets an efficiency that is 2000 times that of the traditional system. In the moving dome reactors that we use, the gas holder telescopes into the fermenter. Therefore, the total volume of the system is twice that of the volume of the gas that you expect to get from it. Now that we have achieved a higher efficiency of biogas generation, we are thinking of delinking the fermenter from the gas holder, similar to the new air-conditioners, in which the noisy compressor is kept out of the room and only the delivery mechanism for the cool air is inside the room. Yours Nandu Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 22:07:37 +0530 Sender: The Stoves Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: adkarve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [STOVES] compact biogas system To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Stovers, We are now collaborating with a voluntary organisation formed by a group of engineers.A school hostel in the town of Jawhar, Dist. Thane, Maharashtra, has a biogas plant having a capacity of producing daily 16cubic meters of biogas. Following my advice, they shifted to using oilcake of locally available non-edible oilseed cake as the feedstock. They get daily 16 cubic meters of biogas, using just 16 kg of the oilcake, which costs them only Rs.32 or USCents 70. The cake comes from three species, namely, Pongamia pinnata, Madhuka indica and Jatropha curcas.A colleague from the engineers' voluntary organisation tested a petrol driven electricity generator on this biogas. They could generate electricity by running the generator entirely on biogas. A fortnight ago, I tested our biogas on a diesel-driven electricity generator. This generator could however replace only about 70% of the total diesel. Yours A.D.Karve Fwd from the Digestion Discussion List. Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:01:18 -0700 Reply-To: Art Krenzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: The Digestion Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Art Krenzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [DIG] AD of oil cake To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jacky Sivamalar, Dr. Karve, located in India, reports very positive results from the AD of oilcakes. There could be a problem with chemical contamination from the cleanup step in the extraction process. The expeller portion of the process produces clean oil. The followup step of solvent extraction could have some harmful residues depending upon the solvent which is used. Dr. Karve's latest report is as follows: We are now collaborating with a voluntary organization formed by a group of engineers.A school hostel in the town of Jawhar, Dist. Thane, Maharashtra, has a biogas plant having a capacity of producing daily 16cubic meters of biogas. Following my advice, they shifted to using oilcake of locally available non-edible oilseed cake as the feedstock. They get daily 16 cubic meters of biogas, using just 16 kg of the oilcake, which costs them only Rs.32 or USCents 70. The cake comes from three species, namely, Pongamia pinnata, Madhuka indica and Jatropha curcas.A colleague from the engineers' voluntary organization tested a petrol driven electricity generator on this biogas. They could generate electricity by running the generator entirely on biogas. A fortnight ago, I tested our biogas on a diesel-driven electricity generator. This generator could however replace only about 70% of the total diesel. Dr. Karve can be reached at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Art Krenzel, P.E. PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES 10505 NE 285TH Street Battle Ground, WA 98604 360-666-1883 voice [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM
[biofuel] Re: Two-Stage Process Question
Hello Mark, welcome Iâve been reading up about the Two-Stage Process for making biodiesel and Iâm thinking of giving it a try, the question I have is how much more difficult is it to do? Most of the stuff Iâve read states the ãmore advancedä homebrewers should try it. Other than no titration and pouring ² of the catalyst in then draining the glycerin then adding the rest of the catalyst. This doesnât sound difficult at all, in fact it sounds easier since there is no need to titrate· So what am I missing?? MarkieB The two-stage processes are not the place to start making biodiesel. It says right at the top of the page: NOTE: The two-stage biodiesel processes are advanced methods, not for novices -- learn the basics thoroughly first. The single-stage base method is the place to start. Start here. Here being here - single stage, with new oil: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start There was some discussion about this at the list recently, please see these two previous posts: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35241/ Re: What went wrong? http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35214/ Re: What went wrong? Best wishes Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
