Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
You could also take a look at these: http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/01/carbon_seq/5a4.pdf http://www.greenfuelonline.com/news/IECR.pdf They're listed under Resources on the same Green Car Congress page. Todd Swearingen Kirk McLoren wrote: So where are these guys published? Such a cell line should be in the literature. Kirk */Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Southern Kaliforn-I-eh. By December's end, 2007. Plant is or has already been contracted upon and should be completed by then. Don't think it's quite yet proper to say what firm is financing it, at least not until they issue their first press release, which they may have already done for all I'm aware of. The 100,000 gallons is just an estimate projected upon the reasonably accepted value of 2,000 gpa from inoculated species in a horizontal acre. This plant will be growing vertically, permitting at least 50 x production capability. Will kinda' knock the socks off anything going. They'll just have to get the costs down to something affordable..., which will happen in short order. It's either that or biodiesel will be bottlenecked until hell freezes over with a an economically sustainable level of oilseed production (perhaps 5% at best of overall US demand) and consuming the vast majority of WVO supplies. It's the future or commercial biodiesel is plumb (horse droppings) out of luck. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae. Todd Swearingen \ Um, where exactly are these acres of algae each producing 100,000 gallons of oil? Anywhere here on Planet Earth in August 2006? :-) Keith Kirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie /* wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year. im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the best feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higher yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock the land requirement would be porportionally lower. for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA: -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48 gallons of soy oil. -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more than 3 acres of soy. which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be used for food or- OH NO! TREES! for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but more climate friendly) in the USA: -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons of corn ethanol -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for 1.9 acres of corn. you see where im going with this? by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high density stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, increasing the supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount. WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, but noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in the world. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
Cell line? I don't follow. This is done with concentrators, fiber-optics and essentially hydroponics. There are no solar cells. You did look at the link that was offered, yes? http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/greenshift_lice.html Todd Swearingen Kirk McLoren wrote: So where are these guys published? Such a cell line should be in the literature. Kirk */Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Southern Kaliforn-I-eh. By December's end, 2007. Plant is or has already been contracted upon and should be completed by then. Don't think it's quite yet proper to say what firm is financing it, at least not until they issue their first press release, which they may have already done for all I'm aware of. The 100,000 gallons is just an estimate projected upon the reasonably accepted value of 2,000 gpa from inoculated species in a horizontal acre. This plant will be growing vertically, permitting at least 50 x production capability. Will kinda' knock the socks off anything going. They'll just have to get the costs down to something affordable..., which will happen in short order. It's either that or biodiesel will be bottlenecked until hell freezes over with a an economically sustainable level of oilseed production (perhaps 5% at best of overall US demand) and consuming the vast majority of WVO supplies. It's the future or commercial biodiesel is plumb (horse droppings) out of luck. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae. Todd Swearingen \ Um, where exactly are these acres of algae each producing 100,000 gallons of oil? Anywhere here on Planet Earth in August 2006? :-) Keith Kirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie /* wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year. im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the best feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higher yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock the land requirement would be porportionally lower. for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA: -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48 gallons of soy oil. -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more than 3 acres of soy. which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be used for food or- OH NO! TREES! for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but more climate friendly) in the USA: -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons of corn ethanol -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for 1.9 acres of corn. you see where im going with this? by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high density stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, increasing the supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount. WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, but noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in the world. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
Keith, So in short Todd, as with the last 25 years, there is no biodiesel from algae right now on Planet Earth, but hey! it's just around the corner (December next year this time). Ho-hum, yawn... You can ho-hum-hokum-yawn all you wish. What good things are there that you can think of that once weren't and now are? And what of the biodiesel from New Zealand sewage treatment ponds? Or Dave Bayless' working proto? In general, doesn't a person or society have to crawl before they can run? Algae isn't air powered cars, magnets, or little blue pills pedaled by snake oil sales persons. It's a reality that's being worked on right now while you're yawning, despite an entire herd of market forces that have kept it at a snail's pace up to this point - no different than solar and wind which have faced the same roadblocks the past thirty years. Just out of curiosity, where are those two industries going now? And with the increasing cost of fossil fuels, both environmental and economical, they've become competitive in increasing instances, in spite of the ongoing corporate welfare (subsidies) payed out to the likes of nuclear, coal, oil and gas. So Keith, what are you suggesting with the Ho-hum, yawn...? Do you think we should just give up? Throw in the towel? Let corporate dinos strip the world of all it's buffers and watch society at large die a miserable, writhing end? Thank you, but no. At least not for me. As for Are you really thinking in the same corporatist and/or guzzle-addicted mindset that sees overall US demand as something that can be replaced, or sustained in any way? The answer is no, and you know that without asking the question. Unfortunately you're not waiting for the unneeded answer, as your next remark implies... How do you figure it - current growth trends in consumption extrapolated to 2020, like the US DoE? LOL! Dream on I've expressed myself often enough throughout my existence (not to mention on this list) that the candle needs to be burnt from both ends (more if it were possible). Anything less only provides a slower anhilation at the hands of collective stupidity, carelessness, selfishness or whatever. Apparently, or so it would seem, you think I've sold out somewhere along the line? If so, I wonder how you could come to such a conclusion? I can tell you this, however. No different than all the corporate fuel elitists, it's been self-evident for years that oilseeds and WVO will put but a small dent in the petroleum distillate fuel oil market, even if demand were somehow halved, whether by overnight magic or economic and environmental necessity, even if all the rain forests were stripped for palm oil (Can you spell destruction?) and all the jatropha in the world were put towards fuel. You know full well that the oilseed market is going to bottom out soon, more probably than not after next year's harvests as biodiesel demand grows and feed meal gluts rise. With plants being built at a jack rabbit pace at the moment, at least in the US, and demand for oil feed stocks steadily increasing rapidly, the inevitable result will be the market correcting itself, with farmers finding a production plateau that is sustainable. That is unless Congress (as far as the US goes) continues to offer the corporate welfare dollar to blenders. With that knowledge firmly in hand, what is it that you suppose will fill the role under the substitution principle? Soy got it's windfall. Now it's time to stabilize an industry, and try to do that before the oilseed industry faces a glut, or at least meet that window as quickly as possible. If feed stocks such as algae or similar such are not put into play as fast as possible, the result will be at first a lull in the biodiesel industry for several years, and at worst a final curtain pulled on this play called life. The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization. Ralph Waldo Emerson Well, I don't much consider what we have on hand at present to be but a remote and horribly distorted facsimile of civilization. And I would strongly encourage you to take a longer look at algae's role in carbon recycling and efforts towards carbon neutrality. Or are you thinking that getting an extra 45% efficiency out of a btu is a wasted effort? Have you considered how many commercial boilers, kilns, furnaces and ovens could be integrated with bioreactors and biodiesel production? And given the opportunity, would you seize it, or would you shun it, thinking that it was just another method to keep lining the pockets of big money interests? Perhaps so called geologic sequestration (waste) is a more logical approach than one of Max Utility? I think not. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: So in short Todd, as with the last 25 years, there is no biodiesel from algae right now on Planet Earth, but hey! it's just around the corner (December next year this time). Ho-hum, yawn...
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
You've got to read between the lines. And it helps a little to know how far apart they're placing the vertical mesh. You don't really think that anyone would sequester carbon via algae production and then just kinda' forget to do something with the oil, do you? Todd Swearingen Kirk McLoren wrote: I didnt see mention of 10^5 gallons of oil. I did see mention of scrubbing stack gasses. Kirk */Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Actually that's a conservative value. See http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/greenshift_lice.html and calculate what you come up with in square feet under roof with a 30' eave. The proto's already proven the values. All that remains is to upscale. Todd Swearingen Kirk McLoren wrote: I think that 100,000 is still vaporware. No purchaseable cultures of algusunobtainius ;) Kirk */D. Mindock /* wrote: Algae does seem to be a no brainer. So why isn't more impetus for it? We might even be able to harvest those algae blooms and make biodiesel from it. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving? And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae. Todd Swearingen \ Kirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie /* wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year. im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the best feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higher yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock the land requirement would be porportionally lower. for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA: -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48 gallons of soy oil. -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more than 3 acres of soy. which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be used for food or- OH NO! TREES! for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but more climate friendly) in the USA: -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons of corn ethanol -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for 1.9 acres of corn. you see where im going with this? by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high density stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, increasing the supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount. WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, but noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in the world. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
Keith, Right Todd, more big-central stuff, with a cast of millions (of dollars) Being cynical is fine and quite often healthy. Being oblivious to what surrounds one is often to one's own and other's detriment. There are over 15,000 commercial boilers in the US. We're not speaking of just hot water to take showers, but multi-million btu boilers with thousands of tons of CO2 going out the stack and to no other use than more global warming. Now that's a jolly happy prospect, yes? (Not!!!) And that doesn't even touch the tip of the iceberg. The number fails to include industrial kilns, furnaces and ovens. Ever seen the enormous flares off a steel mill? More often than not, no co-gen. No nothing. Just waste. Do you think that maybe we should just let business be conducted as usual, or do you think that perhaps at least one responsible approach is to show the greedy, capitalist pigs that they can make a profit by doing something that reduces global warming? This isn't advocacy of consumption, not at present levels or increased. Nor is it an acceptance of the mis-programming that stuff is where the joy of life is to be found. It is, on the other hand, an acceptance of the fact that something has to be done to get these damn fools to stop their waste and the inevitable destruction, even if it means that some or many will try to greenwash the effort. If they can be induced by profit to make an environmental gain? Would you prefer that they do nothing instead? So just for grins and giggles, how about we divide 15,000 by, oh, let's see..., maybe 50 states? That works out to be 300 bio-reactors/biodiesel plants per state, or approximately one plant every radius a skosh less than nine miles. (3,539,224 sq miles in the US.) Seems to me that were it a perfect world, that would come very close to being micro-regional. Unfortunately, commercial kilns, boilers, furnaces and ovens aren't necessarily spaced in such a fashion, but you surely get the gist of the matter. And it doesn't mean that micro-regional plants using WVO or SVO have to be abolished just because larger industry might take on a larger share of biodiesel production. It's a very large world and the primary focus/purpose is to prevent it from being destroyed, not necessarily to dry up the cash flow of the wealthy, albeit not an extremely unattractive notion. no interest whatsoever for local projects, Please see above... and, as yet, no production Well? As of yet I'm not fifty. But short of calling the hand of a gun-toting card cheat in the middle of a poker match, it's more than a fair bet that I'll get there. We didn't use to have steel mills and coal-fired power plants either. Funny how things transpire, both good, bad and in between. They often need the permission of neither of us. should we perhaps sell everything so we can invest in the new fossil-fuel plants it will help to paint green too? Did I say everything? I thought not. Would you rather a barge load of green paint or the inevitable consequences of continuing global warming and in most probability global destruction, or at least the destruction of human un-civilization as we know it? Personally? I'd rather forestall the latter for as long as possible. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Tom, Per horizontal acre, with the algae growing vertically. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/greenshift_lice.html Bookmark that page and think about buying stock in the manufacturers of the technology. That is if you have all your credit cards payed off first. Todd Swearingen Right Todd, more big-central stuff, with a cast of millions (of dollars), no interest whatsoever for local projects, and, as yet, no production - should we perhaps sell everything so we can invest in the new fossil-fuel plants it will help to paint green too? Best Keith Tom Irwin wrote: Hi Todd and all, Do you mean acre-foot of seawater? Do you have any idea how much phosphorus would be required for growing this kind of mass even if the algae can fix atmospheric nitrogen? Let me diplomatic and say this seems to be an overestimation. Tom *From:* Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tue, 01 Aug 2006 02:46:51 -0300 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving? And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae. Todd Swearingen \ Um, where exactly are these acres of algae each producing 100,000 gallons of oil? Anywhere here on Planet Earth in August 2006? :-) Keith Kirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
Southern Kaliforn-I-eh. By December's end, 2007. Plant is or has already been contracted upon and should be completed by then. Don't think it's quite yet proper to say what firm is financing it, at least not until they issue their first press release, which they may have already done for all I'm aware of. The 100,000 gallons is just an estimate projected upon the reasonably accepted value of 2,000 gpa from inoculated species in a horizontal acre. This plant will be growing vertically, permitting at least 50 x production capability. Will kinda' knock the socks off anything going. They'll just have to get the costs down to something affordable..., which will happen in short order. It's either that or biodiesel will be bottlenecked until hell freezes over with a an economically sustainable level of oilseed production (perhaps 5% at best of overall US demand) and consuming the vast majority of WVO supplies. It's the future or commercial biodiesel is plumb (horse droppings) out of luck. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae. Todd Swearingen \ Um, where exactly are these acres of algae each producing 100,000 gallons of oil? Anywhere here on Planet Earth in August 2006? :-) Keith Kirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year. im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the best feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higher yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock the land requirement would be porportionally lower. for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA: -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48 gallons of soy oil. -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more than 3 acres of soy. which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be used for food or- OH NO! TREES! for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but more climate friendly) in the USA: -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons of corn ethanol -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for 1.9 acres of corn. you see where im going with this? by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high density stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, increasing the supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount. WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, but noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in the world. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
We might even be able to harvest those algae blooms and make biodiesel from it. Or begin remediation and interception projects to harvest algae? Lake Apopka in Florida used to be the world's best bass fishing (before mercury bioaccumation manifested itself as a reality). People flocked there from all over the world. Or at least those in the know and enough pocket cash for the jet fuel or steamship junket. Now it's just a repository for ag runoff from muck farms with an 8-10 foot algae bottom and barely the smallest minnow, plus a few gators. Imagine a few filters on some of our nations greenest (as in algae laden) streams and rivers, with an oil press on the end of the pto. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Algae does seem to be a no brainer. So why isn't more impetus for it? We might even be able to harvest those algae blooms and make biodiesel from it. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving? And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae. Todd Swearingen \ Kirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year. im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the best feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higher yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock the land requirement would be porportionally lower. for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA: -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48 gallons of soy oil. -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more than 3 acres of soy. which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be used for food or- OH NO! TREES! for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but more climate friendly) in the USA: -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons of corn ethanol -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for 1.9 acres of corn. you see where im going with this? by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high density stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, increasing the supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount. WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, but noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in the world. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
Actually that's a conservative value. See http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/greenshift_lice.html and calculate what you come up with in square feet under roof with a 30' eave. The proto's already proven the values. All that remains is to upscale. Todd Swearingen Kirk McLoren wrote: I think that 100,000 is still vaporware. No purchaseable cultures of algusunobtainius ;) Kirk */D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Algae does seem to be a no brainer. So why isn't more impetus for it? We might even be able to harvest those algae blooms and make biodiesel from it. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving? And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae. Todd Swearingen \ Kirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie /* wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year. im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the best feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higher yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock the land requirement would be porportionally lower. for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA: -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48 gallons of soy oil. -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more than 3 acres of soy. which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be used for food or- OH NO! TREES! for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but more climate friendly) in the USA: -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons of corn ethanol -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for 1.9 acres of corn. you see where im going with this? by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high density stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, increasing the supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount. WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, but noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in the world. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman1/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
Tom, Per horizontal acre, with the algae growing vertically. http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/greenshift_lice.html Bookmark that page and think about buying stock in the manufacturers of the technology. That is if you have all your credit cards payed off first. Todd Swearingen Tom Irwin wrote: Hi Todd and all, Do you mean acre-foot of seawater? Do you have any idea how much phosphorus would be required for growing this kind of mass even if the algae can fix atmospheric nitrogen? Let me diplomatic and say this seems to be an overestimation. Tom *From:* Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Tue, 01 Aug 2006 02:46:51 -0300 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving? And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae. Todd Swearingen \ Um, where exactly are these acres of algae each producing 100,000 gallons of oil? Anywhere here on Planet Earth in August 2006? :-) Keith Kirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year. im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the best feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higher yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock the land requirement would be porportionally lower. for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA: -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48 gallons of soy oil. -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more than 3 acres of soy. which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be used for food or- OH NO! TREES! for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but more climate friendly) in the USA: -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons of corn ethanol -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for 1.9 acres of corn. you see where im going with this? by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high density stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, increasing the supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount. WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, but noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in the world. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Coal
The answer is simple. Existing Infrastructure, capitalizing on it and profit. Hoodwinking (manipulation) is all a part of the game. Todd Swearingen JJJN wrote: I have never understood why when they know that putting it in the air is bad they would start to try and mess up the aquifers too. They will spend tons of money on a poor solution they can label green instead of just surrendering to a long term solution. bob allen wrote: a big part of the clean coal scheme is archival subterranean sequestration of CO2. I suspect Illinois looks better for the storage of CO2- but I really doubt that such storage can be achieved, let alone proven to work for many centuries. Kirk McLoren wrote: Mudd said the Illinois sites in Mattoon and Tuscola both gained high scores on geological and power plant siting criteria. He singled out the Tuscola site as having ready access to three major railroads. -- Thats so they can ship the coal. But Wyoming which is a major supplier of coal and wouldnt need to ship it didnt rate as high. LOL As for power lines to the east they already exist as well. They think we have STUPID stenciled on our foreheads. Kirk */JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: New Power Plant http://www.gillettenewsrecord.com/articles/2006/07/25/news/news01.txt The high-tech plant is intended to be a research tool for coal plants that produce electricity and hydrogen while sequestering carbon dioxide in underground geologic formations. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman1/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Future car: What will you be driving?
And/or 100,000 gallons of oil per acre when growing algae. Todd Swearingen \ Kirk McLoren wrote: 1000 gallons methanol per acre with hemp if using pyrolytic distillation. Kirk */Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!? Could we replace all our oil with bio-fuels? Well... maybe. But it would be an extraordinary effort. A fifty-fifty mix of bio-diesel and ethanol would require putting three times the productive farm land in Iowa toward nothing but the production of fuel just to match what we currently import. Make it five Iowas to solve the whole problem. Trouble is, that much farm land is not readily available. There's also the little nit of figuring out what we eat while every scrap of land is busy working for our gas tanks. Naturally, if we combine bio-fuels with the two hoped for goals in regular cars -- more efficient engines and lighter weight vehicles -- we can shrink the requisite greenspace. Brazil, which generates ethanol from sugar cane, has been systematically raising the amount of ethanol in their fuel supply, and Brazilian manufacturers have been adding small flex-fuel vehicles that can run on anything from E0 to E100. Zap is bringing at least one of these vehicles to US consumers next year. im all for the efficiency argument, but COME ON PEOPLE! doesnt anyone believe in using something OTHER than corn and soy? they are NOT the best feedstocks anyone could use for fuel! move to a better supply, not a higher yield. this is ridiculous! if the supply was a high density stock the land requirement would be porportionally lower. for diesel replacement assume we used castor in the USA: -oil yield would be roughly 151 gallons per acre compared to 48 gallons of soy oil. -THEREFORE one acre of castor would eliminate the need for more than 3 acres of soy. which means those other 2 acres of new empty field could be used for food or- OH NO! TREES! for gasoline replacement assume we use sugarbeets (not very good, but more climate friendly) in the USA: -ethanol yield would be 412 gallons per acre compared to 214 gallons of corn ethanol -THEREFORE one acre of sugarbeets would eliminate the need for 1.9 acres of corn. you see where im going with this? by selective breeding of some of the more tropical varieties of high density stock, we can slowly push the growing regions further north, increasing the supply density, and lowering the acreage needed to supply the same amount. WE DONT NEED CORN OR SOY FOR FUEL! i might be raving like an idiot, but noone can seem to understand that corn and soy are not the only crops in the world. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42241/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/handraisers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Question on clogged filters
Volume change in the head space (air) due to expansion and contraction. Volume in fuel didn't change. Generally, filter clogging is a product of the biodiesel stripping off varnish, paraffin and rust in bulk fuel tanks. The fine, light-colored sediment is probably stearic methyl esters, I would imagine from the tallow fraction of the feedstock. You could gently heat them (if you can filter them out) a degree at a time and see at what temp they liquify. Chances are they've precipitated out due to the colder temp at floor level, more so if it's a concrete floor. Todd Swearingen Joe Street wrote: Hey Todd; I know we are not supposed to store fuel for long periods but I do have some samples that I have kept around for over a year. Although these were well reacted and crystal clear ( I check with a laser to guage this) after a long time I do get some extremely fine light coloured sediment. I assume this is stearins but I suppose it could be a result of some oxidation or something else that happens over time and exposure to air (closed bottle though) I also notice that in a flexible plastic cubie which is sealed, over a relatively short time (months) there is a volume reduction that takes place as I can see a deformation of the container which indicates a slight vacuum inside. I assume this is due to oxygen reacting with the fuel? Is this a good assumption? Is the sediment I talked about the source of the filter clogging in bulk storage? Joe Appal Energy wrote: I think the filter clogging story is just an urban legend. Not. It's a reality. More predominant in bulk fuel storage. Automobiles can generally get away with regular maintenace intervals as the fuel is constantly being sloshed and jostled, not allowing the gringe to aggregate in abundance. Todd Swearingen Joe Street wrote: Hi all; I keep hearing about the cleansing effect of BD and how it clogs fuel filters. Tom even mentioned it in his post about sharing biodiesel as heating oil. I bought a year 2000 Golf TDI which had 225,000 km on it with petroleum. Last summer I ran it on blends from B05 to B75 and over the winter with B20 and this year since May it has been running B100. Ive done over 10,000 km so far. So how long does it take for the filter clogging to happen? I have a spare filter and tools with me all the time but so far it just keeps running and running...when it does happen does it happen just once? Is it possible that the petro in my area is cleaner and there was no deposits during the first 225,000 km? I think the filter clogging story is just an urban legend. I don't believe it will ever happen to me. Now that I have written this I know it will clog the next time I drive. I just wanted to get it over with. Cheers Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Question on clogged filters
I think the filter clogging story is just an urban legend. Not. It's a reality. More predominant in bulk fuel storage. Automobiles can generally get away with regular maintenace intervals as the fuel is constantly being sloshed and jostled, not allowing the gringe to aggregate in abundance. Todd Swearingen Joe Street wrote: Hi all; I keep hearing about the cleansing effect of BD and how it clogs fuel filters. Tom even mentioned it in his post about sharing biodiesel as heating oil. I bought a year 2000 Golf TDI which had 225,000 km on it with petroleum. Last summer I ran it on blends from B05 to B75 and over the winter with B20 and this year since May it has been running B100. Ive done over 10,000 km so far. So how long does it take for the filter clogging to happen? I have a spare filter and tools with me all the time but so far it just keeps running and running...when it does happen does it happen just once? Is it possible that the petro in my area is cleaner and there was no deposits during the first 225,000 km? I think the filter clogging story is just an urban legend. I don't believe it will ever happen to me. Now that I have written this I know it will clog the next time I drive. I just wanted to get it over with. Cheers Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fluorescent fuel?
It recycles it, getting more total btus per barrel or ton than just the single use alone. Algae for biodiesel will stretch a btu by about 45%, or to be read another way, a 45% increase in fuel economy. Todd Swearingen Joe Street wrote: So if we use a plant to remove CO2 from the atmosphere and that plant makes oil that we then burn and release CO2 to the atmosphere how is that supposed to reduce atmospheric CO2? Joe Bob Molloy wrote: snip Phytoplankton, like other plants, absorb carbon dioxide as they grow. Scientists have examined the possibility of stimulating growth of the single cell plants as a means of reducing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. CO2, liberated by burning fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas, is widely held responsible for global warming. Bio Fuel Systems said its new fuel would reduce CO2, was free of other contaminants like sulphur dioxide and would be cheaper than fossil oil is now. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel and the Petroleum Industry
Thomas, Lower blends result in higher profits? 1 gal B-100 --- 10 gal B-10 blend. The subsidy doesn't change by lowering the blend. The increased profit comes from the premium charges on the blend (regardless of % BD). Ex. 5 cents on 10 gal rather than on just 1gal. Have I got it right? The premium charges come from blending, yes. But if you charge $0.05 per gallon of B-10, that nets a total of $0.50 extra profit per gallon of B-100. So B-9.9 times Five gallons plus th $1.00 subsidy per gallon of B-99 (virgin oil feedstock) nets a total of $1.50 profit per gallon of B-99. Won't subidies, as they now exist, and the premium that can be charged on top of the subsidies actually discourage higher blending? Yup. But that won't last forever as inventories of biodiesel increase. Blenders will eventually be forced to offer higher blends. For the time being, however, they're quite happy with offering lower blends and taking a few more pennies per gallon profit. The argument that you will hear for justifying the profit taking off blends is that they have to hold different inventories. Nonsense. The stuff is blended at the nozzle. Reset the mixer and pump a different tanker compartment with a different blend than the last one that was filled. Reset it for the next customer, etc. It's a few seconds for the metering change and a tidy little profit is netted. Is there really any hope for commercially produced BD to become available w/o involving the big oil companies in its blending and distribution? Yes and no. It will never be an either / or situation. can locally produced biodiesel be part of our future, Yes. Much depends upon the motive of the manufacturer. or should I plan on making my own forever? Sure. But if you want to place the planet over profit (personal savings), the suggestion would be to share your fuel and run a blend in the neighborhood of B-75. Your mother (Earth) would appreciate that. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Todd, Thanks for the reply. If I understand you correctly, a reasonable strategy is to start at lower blends, largely due to limited production ( demand?). Subsidies and a premium added to blends help to make production profitable. As profit stimulates production, blends can be increased to B-50, even B-75. The lower blends also help establish a comfort level with consumers allow manufacturers of diesel engines, pumps, etc. to test their equipment on various blends of BD. I admit I'm still a bit baffled by the subsidies: B) Taking existing inventory of B-100 and dilluting it, to let's say 10%, allows the blender to net the entire subsidy plus charge a premium of several cents per gallon for the blended fuel. If that premium is $0.05 per gallon, this amounts to $0.50 on top of the subsidy dollar, or fifty cents if WVO is the parent stock. Lower blends result in higher profits? 1 gal B-100 --- 10 gal B-10 blend. The subsidy doesn't change by lowering the blend. The increased profit comes from the premium charges on the blend (regardless of % BD). Ex. 5 cents on 10 gal rather than on just 1gal. Have I got it right? Won't subidies, as they now exist, and the premium that can be charged on top of the subsidies actually discourage higher blending? I'm impatient. I started making BD largely because of concerns about CO2 emissions. The idea was to make it until it becomes available; then I'll buy it. Now I want it to be made locally . I want it to be a part of an energy strategy that includes diversification and starts with conservation. I don't see how my demands for the commercial product will fit, given their track record, with the philosophy of the powers that control fuel blending and distribution. Is there really any hope for commercially produced BD to become available w/o involving the big oil companies in its blending and distribution? ... sort of like the local bakery, corner deli, diner or restaurant, local vegs in the local family-owned market, rather than WalMarts, franchises and fast food ... can locally produced biodiesel be part of our future, or should I plan on making my own forever? I continue to write to my elected representatives and appreciate your help in understanding the economics of BD from a commercial production view. Additions/corrections are always appreciated. Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 1:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel and the Petroleum Industry Thomas, A) The subsidy is for blended fuel only, up to $1.00 per gallon for B-99 from first use feedstock and up to $0.50 per gallon for WVO feedstock. B) Taking existing inventory of B-100 and dilluting it, to let's say 10%, allows the blender to net the entire subsidy plus charge a premium of several cents
Re: [Biofuel] Redneck biodiesel video
Let's see. Use only good oil, no fats, eh? So what is the friendly restaurant owner going to do with the chaf after the local redneck/tree-hugger has taken the cream off the top? Nice methanol exposure demonstration. Kids gather 'round and watch daddy real close... Then there's the really amusing cartoon showing the transformation of a tri-gliceride to a tri-methanide (?) and calling it biodiesel. Wonder who thought that one up? Just drain the glycerine out? And put it where? Make soap out of it? Nonsense. You can't make soap out of glycerol. Someone should inform the poor guy that he's got a cocktail of soap, glycerol and methanol. Maybe they should even inform him of how to recover FFAs and methanol. 'Reckon it's in the Fuel Monster manual? Doubtful. The dude has a nice attitude, but he's in bed with sheisters. Another case where Hollywood's pumped-up, pimped-up version is a few nautical miles off what reality actually is. Gotta' go to ... .com ... and blow a $3,000.00 bill to for a pallet of plastic and pipe fittings when you can make a system that will out perform the Fuel Monster for a few hundred bucks. Makes perfect sense to me nonsense. Todd Swearingen Matthew Law wrote: Unwashed biodiesel the expensive redneck way: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=457773184300286737q=biodiesel I'm lost for words on this one... Matt. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Redneck biodiesel video
The damage is done. They've probably struck a deal with Fuel Monster and are quite happy with their fluff piece and the fluff in their wallet, or at least a free Fuel Monster. But it wouldn't hurt if someone wished to point out a series of flaws in their presentation, inclusive of the omissions. You know what the biblical verse says. My people perish for lack of knowledge. A little information can do a lot of good if the recipient is sharp enough to use it properly. Todd Swearingen Jason Katie wrote: shall we re-inform them? or would it be a wasted effort? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Redneck biodiesel video Let's see. Use only good oil, no fats, eh? So what is the friendly restaurant owner going to do with the chaf after the local redneck/tree-hugger has taken the cream off the top? Nice methanol exposure demonstration. Kids gather 'round and watch daddy real close... Then there's the really amusing cartoon showing the transformation of a tri-gliceride to a tri-methanide (?) and calling it biodiesel. Wonder who thought that one up? Just drain the glycerine out? And put it where? Make soap out of it? Nonsense. You can't make soap out of glycerol. Someone should inform the poor guy that he's got a cocktail of soap, glycerol and methanol. Maybe they should even inform him of how to recover FFAs and methanol. 'Reckon it's in the Fuel Monster manual? Doubtful. The dude has a nice attitude, but he's in bed with sheisters. Another case where Hollywood's pumped-up, pimped-up version is a few nautical miles off what reality actually is. Gotta' go to ... .com ... and blow a $3,000.00 bill to for a pallet of plastic and pipe fittings when you can make a system that will out perform the Fuel Monster for a few hundred bucks. Makes perfect sense to me nonsense. Todd Swearingen Matthew Law wrote: Unwashed biodiesel the expensive redneck way: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=457773184300286737q=biodiesel I'm lost for words on this one... Matt. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel and the Petroleum Industry
Thomas, Why? You asked... 1) There's greater profit in blending biodiesel rather than selling straight. 2) Scrap all the misinformation about engine problems at higher blends. 3) Also scrap his misinformation about emissions benefits tapering off at 10%. They actually do little until after B-10, rising sharply to approximately B-75, where it plateaus. 4) Although his ratios on benefits are quite off, he is right in the environmental benefit of everyone running a blend, rather than some people running B-100. It's better for the environment (greater emissions benefits across the board) if everyone runs B-10 until the market-wide supply is sufficient for everyone to run B-15, then B-20, etc Essentially, if people were looking out for the planet first and their wallets second, anyone producing biofuel for personal use should share with others who don't have it. One vehicle at B-100 achieves less emissions benefits than two vehicles, one running B-25 and another at B-75. Unfortunately, economic benefits aren't in line with environmental benefits. And the subsidy dollar doesn't help that matter either. Then again, if there weren't a subsidy it's rather doubtful that the industry would be growing leaps and bounds as it is. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: I attended a public forum on Biofuels a while back. One of the speakers, the head of a biodiesel co-op, had me perplexed by his repeated assertion that biodiesel can be used in 2, 5%, even 10% or 20% blends, but above these levels engine problems and gelling can occur. He had graphs showing the benefit of using biodiesel to improve exhaust emissions, but pointed out that above a 10% blend improvement tapers off better to have 10 people driving with B10 than 1 person driving with B100. I questioned his assertions regarding gelling of fuel and pointed out that I drop from BD100 to BD70 in winter months w/o gelling. I explained the cleansing effect of BD and how this may clog fuel filters during initial use, but mentioned that this will also happen w blends as low as 5%. Actual engine damage is more a function of fuel quality than the nature of the fuel itself ... even homebrewers can make quality fuel shouldn't commercial producers be expected to do the same? I conceded that at BD10 there is a 10% reduction in hydrocarbon emissions and that at BD100 there is only a 70% reduction, but suggested that I'd like to see all 10 drivers using BD100 to achieve the 70% reduction. There were 60 - 70 people at the forum; some from local newspapers, others from Community Action Groups, most were just curious about biofuels. Their enthusiasm was palpable, their questions polite. Before responding to a question, the speaker asked each person their name, and then spoke as if he was having a friendly, heart-to-heart conversation. To my questions he simply shrugged his shoulders and moved on. I contacted the friend who told me about the forum. He emailed me the actual invitation he had received. Re: the Biodiesel guy: .Jerry --- has over 20 years of domain expertise in the petroleum distribution and marketing and is presently a member of a biodiesel business development team at a major independent energy supplier. ... Jerry does consulting in building biodiesel refineries and advocacy work in promoting alternative and sustainable fuels. Jerry brings over 25 years of experience in the petroleum industry in technology in the distribution, logistics and terminal operations areas. Jerry has been personally involved in the alternative energy arena for the past 15 years, operating his personal car on biodiesel more than 10 years ago and presently driving a van powered by CNG (compressed natural gas) as well as a car on home made biodiesel. He was clearly advocating 2%, 5% blends. Why? Is it simply because the auto manufacturers will void warrantees at higher blends? If so, why not just say so. Somehow I know I should be following the money. It must involve dollars and cents. Any ideas? Thanks , I've been mulling this over for weeks. Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 7/21/2006
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel and the Petroleum Industry
Thomas, A) The subsidy is for blended fuel only, up to $1.00 per gallon for B-99 from first use feedstock and up to $0.50 per gallon for WVO feedstock. B) Taking existing inventory of B-100 and dilluting it, to let's say 10%, allows the blender to net the entire subsidy plus charge a premium of several cents per gallon for the blended fuel. If that premium is $0.05 per gallon, this amounts to $0.50 on top of the subsidy dollar, or fifty cents if WVO is the parent stock. C) The biggest bang for the buck relative to environmental benefits is at approximately B-75. Running blends higher than that, up to B-99 or straight B-100 means that the ratio of emissions gains is reduced in comparison to B-75. The environmentally logical pursuit would be to not run anything more than B-75 until there is enough biodiesel for the entire market to run B-75. Unfortunately, the primary motivation in both the private and commercial sectors is often soley to reduce personal or corporate fuel costs. As home-brewers and most intermediate users/producers such as fleet operators are not set up for high ratio blending and aren't in the game for distribution, they simply run the B-99 and take the subsidy dollar. Money trumps environmental benefit in such cases. In commercial distribution cases, money is still the motivator, but the moderate blends become available to the market. Market wins and environment benefits. If this were about the environment, there would be legislation forbidding use of any biodiesel in blends above B-75 until the market was saturated enough for everyone to run higher blends. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Todd, You wrote: There's greater profit in blending biodiesel rather than selling straight. and later: Unfortunately, economic benefits aren't in line with environmental benefits. And the subsidy dollar doesn't help that matter either. Could you explain these two points? Thanks, Tom - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel and the Petroleum Industry Thomas, Why? You asked... 1) There's greater profit in blending biodiesel rather than selling straight. 2) Scrap all the misinformation about engine problems at higher blends. 3) Also scrap his misinformation about emissions benefits tapering off at 10%. They actually do little until after B-10, rising sharply to approximately B-75, where it plateaus. 4) Although his ratios on benefits are quite off, he is right in the environmental benefit of everyone running a blend, rather than some people running B-100. It's better for the environment (greater emissions benefits across the board) if everyone runs B-10 until the market-wide supply is sufficient for everyone to run B-15, then B-20, etc Essentially, if people were looking out for the planet first and their wallets second, anyone producing biofuel for personal use should share with others who don't have it. One vehicle at B-100 achieves less emissions benefits than two vehicles, one running B-25 and another at B-75. Unfortunately, economic benefits aren't in line with environmental benefits. And the subsidy dollar doesn't help that matter either. Then again, if there weren't a subsidy it's rather doubtful that the industry would be growing leaps and bounds as it is. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: I attended a public forum on Biofuels a while back. One of the speakers, the head of a biodiesel co-op, had me perplexed by his repeated assertion that biodiesel can be used in 2, 5%, even 10% or 20% blends, but above these levels engine problems and gelling can occur. He had graphs showing the benefit of using biodiesel to improve exhaust emissions, but pointed out that above a 10% blend improvement tapers off better to have 10 people driving with B10 than 1 person driving with B100. I questioned his assertions regarding gelling of fuel and pointed out that I drop from BD100 to BD70 in winter months w/o gelling. I explained the cleansing effect of BD and how this may clog fuel filters during initial use, but mentioned that this will also happen w blends as low as 5%. Actual engine damage is more a function of fuel quality than the nature of the fuel itself ... even homebrewers can make quality fuel shouldn't commercial producers be expected to do the same? I conceded that at BD10 there is a 10% reduction in hydrocarbon emissions and that at BD100 there is only a 70% reduction, but suggested that I'd like to see all 10 drivers using BD100 to achieve the 70% reduction. There were 60 - 70 people at the forum; some from local newspapers, others from Community Action Groups, most were just curious about biofuels. Their enthusiasm was palpable, their questions polite. Before responding to a question
Re: [Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
It's sad to be making any comment on such a matter. Here you had a family that was on the edge of not only doing something great but putting themselves in an enormously better finanacial window to boot. Then the bottom falls out. I don't wish to insinuate anything about the owner/operators. But I can see and have seen where the backyard brewer mindset is being applied to commercial environements and is begging for accidents to happen. No containment. Open-face motors. Open reactors. Wood-fired boilers in close proximity to methanol or methanol fumes. It's one thing to spill a gallon here or lose a motor there or foul up in a small way somewhere else when you're working with a five or perhaps a 55 gallon pale. It's altogether another when you're handling thousands of gallons at a time. This is now two plants at least that have been lost to methanol related fire/explosions. I don't doubt that there will be more and perhaps already have been. At this scale making biodiesel requires as much concentration as walking a tightrope across the Royal Gorge with no balance bar. I have no doubt that a lot of people are going to fail to make that connection. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: I feel sorry for the guy and his family but using a torch around methanol? Back in my wrenching days my boss made sure we knew an empty gas tank was more danergous than a full one, and god forbid you did any welding the gas tank had to be filled with water first. Appal Energy wrote: A bad day at Black Rock... http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006 KTVB.COM PAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man. One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday. The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead. The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors. Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion. The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion. The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
Actually? I was more in agreement with your sentiments, not deriding your comments. Still, the obvious must be said. Home brew mindsets will not survive if gearing up for commercial outputs. Not saying that the homebrew mindset was the cause of inattention and the accident. But I am saying that those who have been doing this for awhile and are slowly moving to the commercial end need to take a crash course in combustible materials handling or else these types of accidents are going to continue. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: It wasn't my intent to be insensitive. This was a case of operator error - a young man didn't realize the danger of methanol fumes and lost his life. Appal Energy wrote: It's sad to be making any comment on such a matter. Here you had a family that was on the edge of not only doing something great but putting themselves in an enormously better finanacial window to boot. Then the bottom falls out. I don't wish to insinuate anything about the owner/operators. But I can see and have seen where the backyard brewer mindset is being applied to commercial environements and is begging for accidents to happen. No containment. Open-face motors. Open reactors. Wood-fired boilers in close proximity to methanol or methanol fumes. It's one thing to spill a gallon here or lose a motor there or foul up in a small way somewhere else when you're working with a five or perhaps a 55 gallon pale. It's altogether another when you're handling thousands of gallons at a time. This is now two plants at least that have been lost to methanol related fire/explosions. I don't doubt that there will be more and perhaps already have been. At this scale making biodiesel requires as much concentration as walking a tightrope across the Royal Gorge with no balance bar. I have no doubt that a lot of people are going to fail to make that connection. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: I feel sorry for the guy and his family but using a torch around methanol? Back in my wrenching days my boss made sure we knew an empty gas tank was more danergous than a full one, and god forbid you did any welding the gas tank had to be filled with water first. Appal Energy wrote: A bad day at Black Rock... http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006 KTVB.COM PAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man. One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday. The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead. The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors. Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion. The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion. The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Biofuel] Trash Talk
This is a PR piece, with the author being used to represent only a few of the facts. One of these little puppies is in the vicinity of Leesburg, Florida. In order to build it, the owner required a consistent volume of garbage and had the county/municipality agree to the tonnage. Unfortunately, upon startup they found out that the only way the monster could be adequately fed was to start hauling in garbage from outlying regions at a considerable cost to the municipality/citizens. That's fault one. Their recycling program was also scrapped as a method of generating a larger waste stream for the monster in order to adhere to the contract. That's fault two. It is virtually impossible to screen garbage sufficiently in order to prevent hazardous waste from entering the combustion chamber. It is also virtually impossible to prevent the ad hoc combining of elements under such temperatures. The biggest hazard is the uncontrollable formation of dioxins and furans - carcinogens. Essentially, waste to energy plants are nothing more than hazardous waste incinerators in miniature. That's fault three. The fly ash from waste to energy plants literally is classified as hazardous waste under RICRA. Unfortunately, these types of facilities, along with coal fired power plants, etc., are given exemption and the toxic ash is deposited in landfills where it becomes a component of the leachate. When the liner eventually fails, Wallah! The toxic leachate becomes an ever widening underground plume that contaminates the hydrology (to be read drinking water eventually.) That's fault four. And let's not forget that capitalistic nasty called toxic racism. Take a good look where these plants are located and look at the residential areas in closest proximity. Low property values (going lower once a plant like this is installed), generally populated by low income families. You don't see these facilities going up in upper crust or middle-class environments. That's fault five. And the industry massages authors under a flag of green washing, as they have for twenty years and better, in a push to make the public feel all warm, fuzzy and environmentally at peace, having failed to inform the writers of all the little, ugly nuances surrounding the industry. That's fault six. Need anyone say more? Perhaps what we need to do is produce a fair bit less waste? Perhaps a really serious economic drought or depression is in order to achieve what we fail to instill in the consumer mindset. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Trash Talk at: http://www.the-rude-awakening.com/RAissues/2006/march/RA071806.html By Justice Litle Remember the classic '80s movie Back to the Future, in which Marty McFly (Michael J. Fox) traveled to 1955 in a time machine built by Doc Brown (Christopher Lloyd)? The initial version of the time machine, a souped-up DeLorean, was fueled by plutonium. At the end of the movie, Doc Brown returns from the future with a new-and-improved version that runs on garbage. Getting a nuclear reaction from coffee grinds and banana peels seems a bit of a stretch. In fact, turning the contents of your garbage can into any form of clean energy sounds like a pipe dream. But Covanta Holdings Corp. (NYSE: CVA) does just that. It turns garbage into electricity, in a process known as waste-to-energy. So how does the waste-to-energy process work? In a nutshell, safety-inspected garbage is fed into a feeder chute by an overhead crane. The feeder chute delivers the garbage into a giant furnace, where it is forced onto a downward-sloping grate. A churning action is created by the moving bars of the grate, mixing burning garbage with incoming garbage to help it ignite. This furnace runs hot - roughly 1,800-2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The walls of the furnace are lined with steel tubes; heat from the combustion process turns water in these tubes to steam. The steam then drives a turbine generator, which produces electricity. After the garbage is burned, ash and gas are left over. The gas is filtered through a baghouse, a system of hundreds of fabric filter bags that captures more than 99% of all particulates. The gas is also run through a high-tech pollution control system, and potentially acidic gases are neutralized by a lime slurry sprayed into the exhaust. The physical ash is then taken to a contamination- proof landfill, if not first processed for extraction of recoverable scrap metal. The Environmental Protection Agency has declared that the waste-to energy process has less environmental impact than almost any other source of electricity. A combination of strict regulations and mature technology have made waste- to-energy plants both green and efficient. The United States turns roughly 12-15% of its solid waste into electricity each year - that's more than 100,000 tons per day - and generates enough energy to serve 2.8 million homes. So if the process works so well, why do we burn just a fraction of our
[Biofuel] Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released
A bad day at Black Rock... http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-jul1406-explosion_cause.113ae8b1.html Cause of New Plymouth biodiesel explosion released 02:30 PM MDT on Friday, July 14, 2006 KTVB.COM PAYETTE -- Investigators say they now know what caused an explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last week that killed a Meridian man. One man died at a fire and explosion at a New Plymouth biodiesel plant last Friday. The Payette County Sheriff's Office released its findings today into the explosion and subsequent fire at the plant that left 25-year-old Blaise Black dead. The cause of the fire was determined to be an explosion of a 25,000 gallon steel holding tank that Blaise was working on. The tank contain about 30 to 40 gallons of glycerin and methanol liquid mix. Both products are flammable and give off flammable vapors. Investigators say at the time of the explosion Blaise was working on the top of the tank attempting to install a two-inch steel pipe with a 90-degree elbow on the end to function as a vent on the top of the tank. During the installation of the vent tube a steel two-inch cap was removed from the side of the tank where the vent was to be installed. This allowed the vapors to escape from the tank. When Blaise lit his cutting torch it ignited the vapors, which triggered the fire and explosion. The Payette County coroner says Blaise it appears Blaise died from blunt force trauma as a result of the explosion. The explosion would have thrown him violently upward against the ceiling and a large beam that was above him. As a result of the explosion, the ceiling and beam came down and trapped him on the top of the tank. The force of the impact would have killed him immediately. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming
It's an ingrained social flaw, almost to the point of genetic. Humans in general are not happy unless they feel that there's someone beneath them. Remember, it's always easier to destroy or tear down something than it is to build it up or maintain it. There's a dividing line amongst humans that's rather easy to discern. Not to condemn or judge, just discern, and hopefully change in a respectful and honest manner. Todd Swearingen Jason Katie wrote: just exactly what is black, white? negro, african american, that damn N-word, pastey, cracker, honkey... its all a waste, so why do people think in these terms? its demented. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming JJJN, I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. Democrats aren't going to take anyone's guns away. Well, save for automatics, sawed-off shotguns and perhaps assault rifles. Any NRA-er who thinks otherwise isn't smart enough to be in possession of a gun permit, much less be allowed with 20 parsecs of a firearm. By the by..., you do know that in the deep south, veiled polite-speak (code) for Negro/African-American/Black is Democrat, don't you? When many speak of Democrats in a snotty nosed manner it's almost always got a racial teint to it. In some respects, even if they're looking a white person straight in the face and blaming the Democrats, they've actually got a lit fuse behind the mental curtain that's blaming blacks. All a bit sad. Some kind of inside, twisted, cliquish joke. You'd think adults would grow out of it. I guess not. I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? More like the PR offices in the corporate greed sector manipulating and creating wants/needs where none previously existed. Media is just the delivery mechanism. Todd Swearingen JJJN wrote: Todd, Points all well taken, see below. Appal Energy wrote: I would tend to believe that if you're expressing your belief / faith on paper, you should be the one to polish the words. Well actually I am expressing a view point on Global Warming that targets a specific audience. The list has already given me several angles that I can explore and incorporate, such as yours. By myself only, you can see the example of the narrow perspective that I thought of beginning this thread. As for context, it's beyond me how those who are spiritually/religiously inclined fail to be the first on the environmental bandwagon. I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. They only care about a single issue, while Bush sells of public lands where they would use the guns to hunt. STRANGE but true A) Seems a trifle arrogant and presumptuous to destroy what was given to us by a creator (presuming that's a person's belief system). B) There's a difference between having dominion and destroying / desecrating. Something tells me that if there is a God, he or she is capable of knowing the difference and basing judgment on those who exercise indiscretion. C) For those who believe in the sanctity of life, there is an incumbent mindset that must include all life, not just that or those within our personal sphere of influence, nationality, creed or belief system. This includes future generations - those who are yet to exist - whose lives are being maimed, mangled or outright prevented by contemporary decision making, inclusive of consumer choices and favorite programming mechanisms. (Why do you think they call it programming?) I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? D) For those who believe in the principles spoken of by their preferred deity, which is the greater evil? To end a life at gunpoint or other immediate fashion in the pursuit of self-interest or to end a life or multiple lives by poisoning the waters, air or land beneath our feet in the pursuit of self-interest? It really is the big picture we so often miss, good point. But what the heck. What's a little autism, ashma, Minimata disease and leukemia amongst friends as long as we can fool ourselves into believing that we are civilized? Todd Swearingen Thanks Todd, all good points and well taken. Jim Michael wrote: Some comments added between *** and Very
Re: [Biofuel] EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines
The Bush Administration will continue to enforce the Clean Air Act and stop illegal imports. The public's assistance and cooperation, along with the EPA's commitment to enforcing these regulations, is essential to preserving and protecting the nation's air quality. Chuckle..., chuckle..., snicker..., snarf. Oh Really? Or is that O'Reiley and something from the No Spin Zone. Todd Swearingen AltEnergyNetwork wrote: Hmmm, I thought that Walmart lawnmower my friend bought ran awfully stinky! (LOL) regards tallex EPA seizes thousands of illegally imported engines http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1153185433.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming
JJJN, I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. Democrats aren't going to take anyone's guns away. Well, save for automatics, sawed-off shotguns and perhaps assault rifles. Any NRA-er who thinks otherwise isn't smart enough to be in possession of a gun permit, much less be allowed with 20 parsecs of a firearm. By the by..., you do know that in the deep south, veiled polite-speak (code) for Negro/African-American/Black is Democrat, don't you? When many speak of Democrats in a snotty nosed manner it's almost always got a racial teint to it. In some respects, even if they're looking a white person straight in the face and blaming the Democrats, they've actually got a lit fuse behind the mental curtain that's blaming blacks. All a bit sad. Some kind of inside, twisted, cliquish joke. You'd think adults would grow out of it. I guess not. I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? More like the PR offices in the corporate greed sector manipulating and creating wants/needs where none previously existed. Media is just the delivery mechanism. Todd Swearingen JJJN wrote: Todd, Points all well taken, see below. Appal Energy wrote: I would tend to believe that if you're expressing your belief / faith on paper, you should be the one to polish the words. Well actually I am expressing a view point on Global Warming that targets a specific audience. The list has already given me several angles that I can explore and incorporate, such as yours. By myself only, you can see the example of the narrow perspective that I thought of beginning this thread. As for context, it's beyond me how those who are spiritually/religiously inclined fail to be the first on the environmental bandwagon. I fully agree, but then I know some folks that will vote Republican to save the Guns - and they hate everything else about Republicans. They only care about a single issue, while Bush sells of public lands where they would use the guns to hunt. STRANGE but true A) Seems a trifle arrogant and presumptuous to destroy what was given to us by a creator (presuming that's a person's belief system). B) There's a difference between having dominion and destroying / desecrating. Something tells me that if there is a God, he or she is capable of knowing the difference and basing judgment on those who exercise indiscretion. C) For those who believe in the sanctity of life, there is an incumbent mindset that must include all life, not just that or those within our personal sphere of influence, nationality, creed or belief system. This includes future generations - those who are yet to exist - whose lives are being maimed, mangled or outright prevented by contemporary decision making, inclusive of consumer choices and favorite programming mechanisms. (Why do you think they call it programming?) I'm not sure I follow here, Would this be like the media driven advertisement sector financed by the corporate greed sector pushing people into the waste lifestyle? Or did I miss this one? D) For those who believe in the principles spoken of by their preferred deity, which is the greater evil? To end a life at gunpoint or other immediate fashion in the pursuit of self-interest or to end a life or multiple lives by poisoning the waters, air or land beneath our feet in the pursuit of self-interest? It really is the big picture we so often miss, good point. But what the heck. What's a little autism, ashma, Minimata disease and leukemia amongst friends as long as we can fool ourselves into believing that we are civilized? Todd Swearingen Thanks Todd, all good points and well taken. Jim Michael wrote: Some comments added between *** and Very Respectfully, Michael @ Http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming I wrote this, and it probably sounds self righteous and clumsy, perhaps some on the list could help me fix it up a bit. I plan on using it as a letter to the editor any help out there? A true Christian by faith (not by religion) must make choices based on the commandments of Christ first, man second. It is fortunate for Americans that their laws do not conflict with the commandments of Christ. How does choosing to serve Christ tie in with global warming? Perhaps to see ahead we should look to the past with this quote in mind “and the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” Jesus Christ - Matthew 22:39. Less than 100 years ago a tyrant
Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?
Ken, Still, it would be very silly to spend $10,000 to stay off-grid, only to find that I was not satisfied and end up spending the $17,000 to get PGE also. I guess that's why you need to size your consumption and determine where you can shave peak and continual use to determine your final costs. That's part of the problem -- I don't really know what level of inconvenience I'm willing to tolerate, See above. There may be no inconvenience to tolerate. Besides, it's not a bad idea to remember the words of Socrates. Hunger is good sauce. Same holds true for tightening the energy belt. Good question -- 15 kWh per day, give or take? :-) You could probably shave it down to 12 with a little effort, including an electric fridge. I'm kind of curious though. If you don't have electricity to the manger yet, and your technically already off the grid by virtue of not having any substitute as of yet, just what have you been doing for power up to this point? Or are you still applying the earth plaster and getting ready to wire the building? Personally? You'll be a much happier camper if you stay off the grid. Mainstream isn't where it's at. For people who seem to have your penchant, me thinks you'd always kick yourself in the butt for not having a go at it right out of the chute. Todd Swearingen Ken Provost wrote: On Jul 16, 2006, at 7:48 AM, Appal Energy wrote: Well, since you invited the infusion of other's thought patterns I did indeed, Todd, and your thoughts as usual are cogent. It's true that the comforts of cheap electricity that I've enjoyed all my life has raised the bar of my imagined needs much higher than they probably are. Still, it would be very silly to spend $10,000 to stay off-grid, only to find that I was not satisfied and end up spending the $17,000 to get PGE also. That's part of the problem -- I don't really know what level of inconvenience I'm willing to tolerate, so I'd prefer to err on the side of having excess capacity (which of course I don't have to use). All your ideas are excellent, and many of them are already designed in. I expect to run house and shop on maybe 15 kWh per day average, which is much less than any home I've had before. But one could always do better. Just how much does a man or woman need to live, be happy and be of service to others? Good question -- 15 kWh per day, give or take? :-) -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?
Well, since you invited the infusion of other's thought patterns Still it's offensive to just cave in to them, What's somewhat offensive is that it takes that much power to keep you jolly. Your standard load should or could be much less. Peak load (power tools) could be handled by a generator, preferably diesel. Any average idiot of moderate brain can install PV and eliminate half the cost of a system. Refrigeration by something along the lines of a Sunfrost or a home-built, walk-in, gas absorption. Blown in insulation to R-40+ in attic and try the vertical cellulose (not blown in) for the walls. R value of fibergalss stinks at colder temps. And then, of course, there's always straw bale. Vacuous tube solar collectors for hot water. They heat even on cloudy days. White roof tile. Exterior window valances to eliminate direct solar gain through windows. Keep every tree you can. Mount your PV apart from the roof. Too many people sacrifice their shade trees and mount the solar on their roof, in effect losing a very large portion of what they're trying to gain. Masonry stove. Appropriately placed louvered (adjustable) vents to allow heat circulation in the most distant rooms. Full basement if possible with door at top of stairwell between 1st and 2nd floor. You'd be surprised how cool the first floor will stay all summer using the basement walls as a heat exchanger. I guess the real question that has to be asked is At what expense are you getting all your jollies? This whole tool autonomy mindset is what's driven consumerism to levels that have never been sustainable and have brought us to the brink that we're on now. Just how much does a man or woman need to live, be happy and be of service to others? Todd Swearingen Ken Provost wrote: Just got the quote from PGE for the hookup to a power line 700 ft away -- $17000 USD ! Granted, a good standalone system would be at least twice that, given my love of power tools and radiant floor heat :-) Still it's offensive to just cave in to them, and it's almost like they priced the connection at the maximum that would still be (barely) advantageous to accept. I'm tempted to stay offgrid just for 700 feet -- any thoughts would be welcome. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid?
Why not think as carbon neutral as possible? Todd Swearingen Fritz Friesinger wrote: Hi Ken, how about a 25KVA Genset run on Methanegaz? it seems to me Methane is the Way to go! Why... there is the transport and handling of the Biofuel a lot of manpower involved! You can set up a Methaneproduction with your Wast,the Bacteria will do the work for you and your own Methaneproduction will be put to good use instead of releasing it in the Athmosphere,where it contributes to global warming! with a budget of 17 US grands i would not hesitate ,its a one time spending,than you are homefree Fritz - Original Message - *From:* Jason Katie mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Saturday, July 15, 2006 8:33 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid? is it to a workshed or is it to your house? if it is a house, i personally would start with a 25Kw generator for main power(on BD of course), and then next begin replacing big energy sinks like heating and cooling with geothermal, woodfire, heating oil(and all its variants), biogas, or solar/solar-thermal systems (preferably a mix for reliability). it will take a while, but after all is said and done, you can call out the PGE surveyor and rub it in his face.(oh BTW, show him the total cost and compare his first estimate, then tell him to take his 17000 powerline and stick it! ;D ) Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] To Grid or Not to Grid? Just got the quote from PGE for the hookup to a power line 700 ft away -- $17000 USD ! Granted, a good standalone system would be at least twice that, given my love of power tools and radiant floor heat :-) Still it's offensive to just cave in to them, and it's almost like they priced the connection at the maximum that would still be (barely) advantageous to accept. I'm tempted to stay offgrid just for 700 feet -- any thoughts would be welcome. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.0/388 - Release Date: 7/13/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming
I would tend to believe that if you're expressing your belief / faith on paper, you should be the one to polish the words. As for context, it's beyond me how those who are spiritually/religiously inclined fail to be the first on the environmental bandwagon. A) Seems a trifle arrogant and presumptuous to destroy what was given to us by a creator (presuming that's a person's belief system). B) There's a difference between having dominion and destroying / desecrating. Something tells me that if there is a God, he or she is capable of knowing the difference and basing judgment on those who exercise indiscretion. C) For those who believe in the sanctity of life, there is an incumbent mindset that must include all life, not just that or those within our personal sphere of influence, nationality, creed or belief system. This includes future generations - those who are yet to exist - whose lives are being maimed, mangled or outright prevented by contemporary decision making, inclusive of consumer choices and favorite programming mechanisms. (Why do you think they call it programming?) D) For those who believe in the principles spoken of by their preferred deity, which is the greater evil? To end a life at gunpoint or other immediate fashion in the pursuit of self-interest or to end a life or multiple lives by poisoning the waters, air or land beneath our feet in the pursuit of self-interest? But what the heck. What's a little autism, ashma, Minimata disease and leukemia amongst friends as long as we can fool ourselves into believing that we are civilized? Todd Swearingen Michael wrote: Some comments added between *** and Very Respectfully, Michael @ Http://RecoveryByDiscovery.com - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 3:56 PM Subject: [Biofuel] The truth about where to stand on global warming I wrote this, and it probably sounds self righteous and clumsy, perhaps some on the list could help me fix it up a bit. I plan on using it as a letter to the editor any help out there? A true Christian by faith (not by religion) must make choices based on the commandments of Christ first, man second. It is fortunate for Americans that their laws do not conflict with the commandments of Christ. How does choosing to serve Christ tie in with global warming? Perhaps to see ahead we should look to the past with this quote in mind “and the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” Jesus Christ - Matthew 22:39. Less than 100 years ago a tyrant ruled in Germany and he persecuted a people known as Jews. Now it is arguable to say that this was prophetic and would happen with or without intervention from men. From this, one may try to justify inaction as Gods will and watch this happen. Men of all creeds have always been good at justification of evil deeds as a way to seek safety from any dangers or concerns that would go along with intervention of such. But what is remarkable is that some people were saved because some people could not justify inaction within themselves and they made a choice against the tide. * God's will is that all of his children have a good life. It is our will that makes our lives not good lives, not God's ** The time has come for Christians of faith to make a choice. Now consider this, within the next 10 years hundreds of thousands of people face death as a direct result of global warming. How we choose TODAY will have a direct impact on the number of graves needed in the next decade –our neighbor’s graves. No, we won’t smell the stench of death and many will tell you that I have been out in the sun to long and then the good old justifications start…. How remarkably similar to the responses of Pharisees . As for me I will stand by my neighbor as best I can, as this is where Christ said to stand. *** I will daily ask Christ: What will make a difference towards your will today? *** It makes no difference if global warming is part of prophecy that is to come no matter what. Judas was part of prophecy as well and Jesus stood by him to the very end as friend expecting him to help with his mission to redeem our world. * allowing him every chance to repent? In other words they may dig graves in the next ten years but it will not be a result of my response to global warming. Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
[Biofuel] A little de-evolution humour....
http://www.duke.edu/~charlie/AmishVirus.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pimento rears his ugly head again. :-(
No. It's not a Pimento clone. Least ways I don't think so. This is a syndicated piece that ran in newspapers all over the US last week. Some valid points. Some gross omissions. She certainly failed to mention or perhaps even consider algae, cellulosic ethanol and thermal depolymerization. And she certainly didn't take any bold steps relative to efficiency measures (sorely lacking in a nation labeled The United States of Avarice by the rest of the populated world). Granted, three of the four are still a decade out from being dominant forces in the liquid fuels infrastructure. (Funny thing about birth. Ya gotta' crawl ((or wobble a little)) before you can walk.). But then again, if the author is going to project a dismal future for biofuels from traditional ag, it would be mighty fair and balanced of her to project the entire future, inclusive of untraditional ag, not just select bits and pieces that fit a thesis statement in a lopsided editorial piece. Light weight oil from biomass - thermal depolymerization. Ethanol from cellulosic biomas. Biodiesel from algae - let's not forget the incumbent remediation harvests from ag runoff or carbon recycling from algae. Perhaps she'd like to see the switch to biofuels just stop dead in it's track? Just lay down the plowshares and let PetroChem, Cheney, et al pave the planet? How about if someone told her that you can get to the middle more quickly if you burn the candle from both ends. How about if we resolve the problem from all angles rather than picking and choosing? How about if we just take for granted that she's a grad student, probably young and an idealist without a great deal of real world experience? Not to diminish her ideas, but how about if the article is just taken with a grain of salt, pepper it with the vast array of endeavours she's overlooked, and we all keep moving ever onward? Todd Swearingen Alan Petrillo wrote: http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/38540/ AP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Back to the future
Actually, Diesel was contracted by the German navy to create an engine that ran on coal dust. In the process there were several explosive failures resulting in deaths. The presumption is made that Diesel used vegetable oils to reduce the explosive properties of coal dust. Eventually, and again presumabley, the ratio of oil to dust became high enough and the benefits noticeable enough that Diesel began testing slurries and in time pure plant oil. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: * Rudolf Diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, designed it to run on vegetable and seed oils like hemp. In fact, when the diesel engine was first introduced at the World's Fair in 1900, it ran on peanut oil. * Two decades later, Henry Ford was designing his Model Ts to run on ethanol made from hemp. He envisioned the entire mass-produced Model T automobile line would run on ethanol derived from crops grown in the U.S. * Even in the 1920s, the oil industry had massive lobbying power in Washington. Lobbyists convinced policymakers to create laws favoring petroleum based fuels while disgarding the ethanol option. * Nearly a century later, amidst oil wars in the Middle East, Global Warming, and a nearly depleted oil supply, the U.S. government is finally shifting attention to fuels that are more along the lines of Diesel and Ford's original ideas. * In an interview with the New York Times in 1925, Henry Ford said: The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that sumac out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust -- almost anything. There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that can be fermented. There's enough alcohol in one year's yield of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for a hundred years. Whose water is it? *Learn more:* http://www.organicconsumers.org/2006/article_658.cfm http://alerts.organicconsumers.org/trk/click?ref=zqtbkk3um_0-ax332x3239551; ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions
Many people compost the glycerine cocktail w/o any treatment. I think this is best done when KOH is used as the caustic rather than NaOH. Tom, I don't believe they're actually composting it. But they think they're composting it. The methanol fraction is toxic and the soap/oil fraction will smother almost everything. Jason Katie, At the level of home manufacture, about the best you can hope for is to create co-/waste-products that are essentially benign, as the amount of effort and infrastructure needed to refine the side-streams is phenomenal and beyond the reach of the average or above average home brewer. What you need are end products that can be disposed of without threat to the environment. Rather than seeking out the million and one possibilities and options, the suggestion would be to keep it simple. Potassium hydroxide and phosphoric acid are as simple as you can get on the base side and for FFA recovery, with sulfuric acid for the acid pre-treatment of high FFA oils. Other acid and caustic combinations only leave you with less than useful, if not toxic, salts. Todd Swearingen Jason Katie wrote: i did some reading at wikipedia, and KCl, being part of the final product in splitting crude glycerine(at least with KOH and HCl), is also used as a mineral fertilizer, and can be used to cut table salt (theyre about the same as far as toxicity goes, and it increases potassium levels and total electrolytes in the human body, not so bad i think) but it has many other uses in the medical world as antidotes to some poisons, and for food preparation(probably a preservative,yeech). is this an acceptible byproduct or should i keep looking? - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions Jason Katie, I'm not sure what you mean when you say clean the glycerine for compost. Many people compost the glycerine cocktail w/o any treatment. I think this is best done when KOH is used as the caustic rather than NaOH. I do separate the glycerine because I produce quite a bit of BD these days. I'm concerned about pouring Kilo after Kilo of caustic, of which 70%, by weight, is Potassium. Sure it's a valuable soil nutrient, but I'd like to control how much is added to my garden which has done just fine on pre-BD compost. I also am attempting to recover methanol and have uses for the other components of the mix. I used hydrochloric acid (sold in hardware stores as muriatic acid) before I was able to locate phosphoric. I did a few small test batches and got good separation. The difference will be the type of mineral salt that will precipitate out. Ex: Hydrochloric Acid + Lye (NaOH) forms table salt and water HCl + NaOH NaCL (table salt) + H2O The table salt is not especially valuable; throw it out? The salt falls to the bottom and you get FFAs forming a layer on top and the crude glycerine (+ most of the excess methanol) forming a bottom layer. The FFAs and the glycerine/methanol are composed of Cs, Hs, and Os. They will decompose into CO2 and H2O. They supply nothing in the way of soil nutrients, but I have found that they appear to accelerate decomposition within a compost pile ... not only a safe way to dispose of the mix, but some benefit to be gotten. KOH (during processing) and H3PO4 (split) is preferred because the salt produced is Potassium Phosphate . valuable as fertilizer. The point is that different acids can be used to split the cocktail into FFAs and crude glycerine w. methanol. The difference is in the salt (and its value) that is produced. Vinegar is an organic acid, which tend to be weak acids. It would take a lot of vinegar to split the cocktail. Probably more expensive than hydrochloric and I don't see that the salt produced would have more value. ***By value I don't mean financial, as in sell for profit. I dissolve some of the potassium phosphate produced by the split in water and add it to my compost piles. It has value as in ... can be put to good use. Sorry to get so wordy, but your goofy question is part of a subject that is of great interest to me. The splitting of the cocktail may not have the financial payoff that brewing BD does, but the feeling of putting to good use what others have called waste products is akin to the feeling I get when I fill the tank(s) w. BD I brewed at home. Best of luck to you, Tom - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:13 AM Subject: [Biofuel] more goofy questions what other, more available acids can be used in place of phosphoric to clean glycerine for compost? i have been reading for three hours, and i cant find any experiments or documentation. am
Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions
Well..., I think anything can compost/bio-degrade Keith, even pig iron and Exxon Valdez dropping. And no doubt the ratio of roughage to glyc cocktail certainly is paramount. But how many people hear the word compost, dump tonnage into a pile, and expect miracles without maintenance or moderation? This is largely what I believe biodieselers do..., just dump and make another batch and dump again, until they have a stew pit that isn't working. As for methanol, you just won't find me a very big proponent of tossing something that can contribute to surface and ground water contamination. I am rather fond of the belief of greens going the extra mile rather when feasible/achievable. Pour-and-go biodiesel? Yes. Dump-and-go glycerol cocktail? Strong reservations and with fair reason. Did you not in your trials come up with a rough formulae/guidline as to ratios and time frames? That would certainly help on the middle-road. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Many people compost the glycerine cocktail w/o any treatment. I think this is best done when KOH is used as the caustic rather than NaOH. Tom, I don't believe they're actually composting it. But they think they're composting it. I also think I've composted it, and I'd definitely know. The methanol fraction is toxic It's not toxic to the soil microlife nor to plants. ... Methanol is readily biodegradable in the environment under both aerobic and anaerobic conditions (with and without oxygen) in a wide variety of conditions. Generally 80% of methanol in sewage systems is biodegraded within 5 days. Methanol is a normal growth substrate for many soil microorganisms, which completely degrade methanol to carbon dioxide and water. Methanol is of low toxicity to aquatic and terrestrial organisms and it is not bioaccumulated. (It's toxic mainly to humans and monkeys.) Environmental effects due to exposure to methanol are unlikely. Unless released in high concentrations, methanol would not be expected to persist or bioaccumulate in the environment. Low levels of release would not be expected to result in adverse environmental effects. From More about methanol (with refs): http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#moremeth It certainly won't harm a compost pile. Anyway the methanol should be removed first. and the soap/oil fraction will smother almost everything. It depends how much of it you use. It will need to be mixed thoroughly with other materials so that the air and bacteria can get at it, or it will just make a sticky mass -- mix thoroughly with dry, brown materials, use in conjunction with other composting materials as only a part of the overall mix. -- Composting http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#compost It works. Jason Katie, At the level of home manufacture, about the best you can hope for is to create co-/waste-products that are essentially benign, as the amount of effort and infrastructure needed to refine the side-streams is phenomenal and beyond the reach of the average or above average home brewer. What you need are end products that can be disposed of without threat to the environment. Rather than seeking out the million and one possibilities and options, the suggestion would be to keep it simple. But Tom is finding values in the uses that are well exceeding the price of the phosphoric acid needed for separation, including enhanced composting. Potassium hydroxide and phosphoric acid are as simple as you can get on the base side and for FFA recovery, with sulfuric acid for the acid pre-treatment of high FFA oils. Other acid and caustic combinations only leave you with less than useful, if not toxic, salts. Potassium is harmful in excess. There are no chemicals involved in the biodiesel processes we all use that are toxic to soil or plant life. Separated FFA is a contact weed-killer but once composted it will be benign, as with all the others, and composting also prevents any potential excess problems, or well within reason anyway. Chemical salts should not be added direct to the soil anyway, if you have them always add them via the compost. Phosphoric acid, sulphuric acid and hydrochloric acid can all be safely used for separation and the salts used without adverse effects on compost, soil or plant life. If you're using NaOH as the catalyst, decrease the proportion of separated salts to other compost materials. Best Keith Todd Swearingen Jason Katie wrote: i did some reading at wikipedia, and KCl, being part of the final product in splitting crude glycerine(at least with KOH and HCl), is also used as a mineral fertilizer, and can be used to cut table salt (theyre about the same as far as toxicity goes, and it increases potassium levels and total electrolytes in the human body, not so bad i think) but it has many other uses in the medical world as antidotes to some poisons,
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel stinks - was Re: Venezuelan president Chavez
Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Unwashed fuel has a tart smell in comparison to washed fuel. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Hi Zeke Lot of school busses are veggie oil powered already -- all the used ones that hippies buy and travel around in I've got one. It's been running good after about 10,000 miles on waste veggie oil -- only problem is that it goes through fuel filters like crazy -- every 500 miles or so (which is about 50 gallons of oil). We don't use a lot of fuel filters with SVO (WVO) in our Toyota TownAce. We had some problems before that, with biodiesel, because the tank was rusty inside and the biodiesel freed up the rust. Is the bus tank rusty maybe? But seriously, biodiesel would be a great alternative for school busses. Yesterday I found myself accidentally breathing exhaust from my VW rabbit when I went to look underneath the back of it while it was running. A little burnt smelling, but not the eye watering and stench of diesel or gasoline fumes. New gasoline cars are probably cleaner, but compared to the old gas and diesel cars I'm used to, biodiesel fumes are positively delightful. We also use biodiesel in a rotavator (rototiller) and a diesel-powered shredder. We use them a lot, but I don't think I'd do it with petro-diesel fumes, especially not the shredder. When I get hit by a blast of petro-diesel exhaust from another car it's not just a bad smell, it's like you're being attacked. With biodiesel I barely notice it. What would you tell this person though? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 I have been using biodisel fuel in my truck for 1 year but I can not avoid from the bad smelling of it. Do you know any exhaust filter that can avoid this smell? I've had a few enquiries like that. Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Does anybody else here think it stinks? Best Keith On 5/28/06, AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can imagine it now. Bush authorizes invasion of Bolivia! Venezuelan president Chavez pledges energy loans to Bolivia http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1148814738.news Maybe it's time for large scale biodiesel school bus conversions. Nation's School Buses Worst Polluting Vehicles http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1148815659.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel stinks - was Re: Venezuelan president Chavez
It's kind of acrid in comparison to washed fuel. Soaps, methanol and glycerol being the culprits. All things are relative. Some people love the smell of diesel fuel burning in the morning. (Paraphrased from the movie Apocalyse Now.) Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Unwashed fuel has a tart smell in comparison to washed fuel. Isn't that the methanol? I only ever tried using unwashed fuel once, but I don't think the exhaust stank. Best Keith Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Hi Zeke Lot of school busses are veggie oil powered already -- all the used ones that hippies buy and travel around in I've got one. It's been running good after about 10,000 miles on waste veggie oil -- only problem is that it goes through fuel filters like crazy -- every 500 miles or so (which is about 50 gallons of oil). We don't use a lot of fuel filters with SVO (WVO) in our Toyota TownAce. We had some problems before that, with biodiesel, because the tank was rusty inside and the biodiesel freed up the rust. Is the bus tank rusty maybe? But seriously, biodiesel would be a great alternative for school busses. Yesterday I found myself accidentally breathing exhaust from my VW rabbit when I went to look underneath the back of it while it was running. A little burnt smelling, but not the eye watering and stench of diesel or gasoline fumes. New gasoline cars are probably cleaner, but compared to the old gas and diesel cars I'm used to, biodiesel fumes are positively delightful. We also use biodiesel in a rotavator (rototiller) and a diesel-powered shredder. We use them a lot, but I don't think I'd do it with petro-diesel fumes, especially not the shredder. When I get hit by a blast of petro-diesel exhaust from another car it's not just a bad smell, it's like you're being attacked. With biodiesel I barely notice it. What would you tell this person though? Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 I have been using biodisel fuel in my truck for 1 year but I can not avoid from the bad smelling of it. Do you know any exhaust filter that can avoid this smell? I've had a few enquiries like that. Could there be some other explanation than the biodiesel? Or is it just his biodiesel? How would you make biodiesel that makes the exhaust stink? Does anybody else here think it stinks? Best Keith snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] 147 MPG Diesel
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/05/malaysian_compa.html Malaysian Company Takes 26% Stake in German Maker of 157 MPG Diesel Car Malaysia’s Kosmo Motor Company has taken a 26% stake in Loremo AG, the developers of the Loremo LS, a 1.5 l/100km (157 mpg US) diesel passenger car. (Earlier post http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/157_mpg_lightwe.html.) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Initiative in Pa, USA
This is a rather warped interpretation of carbon neutral. Admirable, but far from accurate or honest. Hanger urged the group to join PennFuture in leading the way, announcing that the organization had just become the state’s first public interest organization to go carbon neutral, committed to balancing any PennFuture activity which contributes to global warming– driving, flying, heating, shipping – by purchasing clean energy offsets from Pennsylvania clean energy projects. Todd Swearingen Chip Mefford wrote: http://www.depweb.state.pa.us/news/cwp/view.asp?a=3q=506726 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] oil in galvanized zinc coated drums
It's not solid oil. It's soap. The zinc coating provided the metal ion. Todd Swearingen Chris Tan wrote: I set aside some waste oil in a galvanized zinc coated drum. Later, I noticed that some of the oil seems to have solidified on the side of the drum. Does anyone have an explanation for this? Thanks, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] OT: Hybrid Camry
The second thing is that due to the battery pack, the hybrids' trunk is about 30% smaller than in the standard Camry. We pack around huge coolers of food for church potlucks, and because I play in the praise band, my guitars and amp head will be a tight fit. I smell a small luggage trailer in the offing for occassional hauling. Todd Swearingen robert and benita rabello wrote: Hello everyone! We're waiting for our new car to come, and I admit that I've entered into this process with a degree of trepidation that surprises most people. I've NEVER owned a new car in my life, and I have deep reservations concerning the embodied energy represented by a heavy steel machine. However, my sweetheart's car NEEDS to be replaced, she wants something new, and there are some advantages to a new car that a used one simply can't touch. In the first place, because it's new, it will never have been subjected to abuse by another driver. Several of the machines we've owned have required major repairs because of this issue. While I'm capable of working on a car myself, my tools and space are limited, so it's hard to swap and engine or transmission without access to a proper shop. (Yes, I'm the guy who installed a blower on my truck, and yes, I did that in my driveway . . . ) The car comes with an 8 year warranty on all powertrain-related components, including the NiMH battery pack. Our current automobile is five years old and ALREADY needs an new engine . . . My wife wants something reliable, therefore she wants something new. Now, the finance companies make it more attractive to buy or lease a new car than a used one. Interest rates are significantly lower for a new car, and interest on a lease is lower than interest on a purchase. (I don't understand why this is so.) I will be doing this through my business, so I get a double tax break. Firstly, tax on lease payments are calculated on the basis of the monthly payment--rather than the overall price of the car--which lowers the overall interest we're paying. Secondly, I can deduct a portion of the monthly payment and pay this with pre-tax dollars through my business, which gives me the benefit of driving a car I'd have to pay for anyway, while lowering my personal tax burden. I think the system that encourages this kind of resource usage is crazy and really needs a hard look. Industry is driven to make profits, so the system is designed to perpetuate dissatisfaction, and the banking sector makes it WAY too easy to buy a new car . . . We drove the hybrid Camry last Friday morning. It's VERY impressive! It's roomy, it's quiet, it's brakes are far better than the GM brakes on my sweetheart's much lighter Cavalier, and it handles surprisingly well for such a heavy machine. Because we live on top of a hill, it's really nice to put the car in B (for braking) and regenerate all the way downhill! The infinitely variable transmission simply doesn't shift, so acceleration is smooth and lively. (The 2.4 liter Atkinson cycle engine is a bit low on torque because of valve overlap, but the electric drive system makes up for it, and the Atkinson cycle creates more horsepower at high rpm than an Otto cycle engine of the same displacement. I accelerated uphill in the Camry, something that my truck can't do unless it's in boost!) Safety features are far superior to anything we've ever driven, too. This car has traction / stability control, as well as all-wheel ABS, and a total of 7 airbags! There are two things I don't like about it. The first is that Toyota actually makes a point that this car doesn't have to be plugged in. Their web site presents several pathetic arguments about how plug in electrics are less efficient, wear out batteries faster, and depend on coal burning power plants, etc. (I live in BC, the land of hydro dams and natural gas turbines. There are no coal fired plants here.) I would like to see Toyota develop a plug in option for limited, around-town driving. As it is, we're still stuck with a gasoline burner . . . There's something about this that makes me a little sad. At least, however, its emissions are lower than that of a conventionally powered vehicle. The second thing is that due to the battery pack, the hybrids' trunk is about 30% smaller than in the standard Camry. We pack around huge coolers of food for church potlucks, and because I play in the praise band, my guitars and amp head will be a tight fit. I guess we can't have everything. I didn't really want to buy a new car, but if I have to, I'd rather spend the money on a hybrid than a conventional car. We also looked at the TDI Volkswagons (which are about the same price) and thought, after much consideration, that the hybrid will be better for the around-town, stop and go nonsense that
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
Chris, Anything beyond the personal production level is going to require industrial filtration in order keep up with the finished product output.. I'd venture to say even as low as 100 gpd would warrant a filter press. The manufacturer claims disposal by composting, the filters are non consumable. I think this idea of composting such material is getting way out of hand, at any level. This stuff, soaps, FFAs and partially reacted glycerides, doesn't readily compost.. It's essentially an oily mess that kills good composting. Almost better to put the filtrate in a solid fuels boiler I think that in the case of Magnesol, or at least if it's incorporated universally, whether wet washing is viable at a location or not, is an example of the enemy of good is better. Of what value is better fuel wherever another wash option exists if the process proves to be more wasteful in the long run? As they are to treat and pump water, and to treat sewerage. I agree it would be nice to know the true energy costs, but where do you stop? I remember at Uni reading a paper about nuclear power stations. A group of students started doing energy calculations, I believe an equally worthwhile question is Where do you start? To my knowledge no one has produced an energy inputs comparison for the two washing processes, Nor has anyone done an effluents analysis between the two. A) Water is universal, by and large. Tell that to those people in S England who face having theirs turned off soon! ;-)) Instances such as this might be where the qualifier by and large comes in, no? I have nothing else to do with my wash water but to put it down the drain. That's putting part of the cost of your fuel production upon the pockets of others. Perhaps not a large cost, but it violates a general principle of cradle to grave. Industry does this all the time. Are you sure you want to head in the same direction? If you're producing just for yourself and have a front or back lawn, you've got ample space to dispose of treated gray water. You could even cistern it and use it during a dry spell. Or maybe not in your case. But the principles are there and it wouldn't hurt if we all adhered to them as well as possible. Erm, sorry you have lost me, what is resfresh? ;-) It comes from accompanying English/grammar volume to George Bush's Fuzzy Math. Should have been refresh. Todd Swearingen Chris Bennett wrote: Appal Energy wrote: B) Use of Magnesol marries the manufacturer to a vendor. I believe there are alternative brands of synthetic magnesium silicate on the market, several at a lower cost. I am currently looking into this, several posts on online forums suggest this also. C) Rather costly filter presses are required to remove Magnesol from the fuel stream. Not exactly. A cheap and readlily available sock filter and gravity will do the trick with very little investment. There are commercially available filter units which are big bucks, but in the spirit of the JTF site I doubt many people here would have any difficulty in suspending a 5 micron sock filter over a collecting drum. Wont look as nice as a commercially bought stainless filter unit, but thats not always an issue. The units I have seen in the commercial sector are simply a stainelss enclosure taking a £9.99 for 10 sock filter and a pump. D) Expended Magnesol must be handled as a solid waste, inclusive of the filtrate. The manufacturer claims disposal by composting, the filters are non consumable. E) Energy expenditures are required to manufacture and transport synthetic magnesium silicate (Magnesol). As they are to treat and pump water, and to treat sewerage. I agree it would be nice to know the true energy costs, but where do you stop? I remember at Uni reading a paper about nuclear power stations. A group of students started doing energy calculations, adding up everything it took to run a power plant (and I mean everything!!) right down to the fuel used to transport materials to the brickworks to make the bricks to build the plant! They concluded that they couldnt possibly have factored in all the energy, but on what they had it was something like a 25-30 year running time before the break even point was reached!! On the water side: A) Water is universal, by and large. Tell that to those people in S England who face having theirs turned off soon! ;-)) B) Water has a dual utility, as easily treated wash water can be reused as gray water irrigation. Assuming that you are in the situation where you need irrigation, if not then it is going to get drained. Not being critical of your comments at all, just factoring in my situation, which is probably the same as many here. I have nothing else to do with my wash water but to put it down the drain. All in all they both have their place. Neither is necessarily superior over
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
others, but does it still mean anything in the US, or is it just the name of a college now? If you search for Kent State at Google the 1970 shootings come up at #3. That's encouraging. Regards E. Allen C. P.S. Keith, i owe you the List an apology for muddy writing (about a month ago) -- which you very aptly corrected: i didn't mean biofuel is biofuel is biofuel, but, on re-reading (after getting over the stinging rebuke) that was how it came across -- I'm sorry. What i meant was more like fuel is fuel is fuel, we need to learn how to cure our gluttony for fuel, for the sake of this, our only planet. Verily. I'm sorry it stung, it wasn't intended to, just to redirect. If we'd met in a cafe instead of a workshop I wouldn't have done it that way. Not to say it can't be a cafe too. You're welcome to give me a thumping in return for thinking Kent State is in America is America is America. :-) Thankyou, Allen, for rescuing the subject and putting it back on the rails, police brutality on Ohio. It won't be this current case of course, though hopefully it'll add to the accumulation that's building, but the opposition needs a powerful mobilising and unifying symbol now like Kent State was then. Without the bodies, more than enough bodies already. I don't mean the opposition party, the opposition that Kent State helped to mobilise wasn't a party. It's embarrassing, you try to overthrow the government and you wind up on the Best Seller's List. -- Abbie Hoffman http://www.tenant.net/Community/steal/ Steal This Book Read It! (413k) http://www.tenant.net/Community/steal/steal.html Namaste Keith Namaste Allen --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have to answer the questions who, what, where, when, why and how in the first 25 words. But you seem to expect to find the whole newspaper encapsulated in the front-page lead headline. And there you have it Keith. snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Algae, Biodiesel and CO2 Scrubbing
GreenShift Licenses Bioreactor Technology for CO2 Scrubbing, Biofuel Production 12 December 2005 http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/greenshift_lice.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] MaGnesol is... was Re: Manesol pretreatment and washing
The presumption is made that the following is from Dallas Group's PR about Magnesol. .. Water in biodiesel is not a good idea. Most people would agree this is a true statement. Dohhh!!! Perhaps that's why it's removed? Yet most people continue to wash their biodiesel with water, and then go on to dry their biodiesel after washing. The end result of this biodiesel washing with Magnesol is that you will have used a lot of water and a lot of time. Me thinks they need a proof reader. That and they conveniently(?) neglect to mention that use of Magnesol uses a lot of Magnesol and probably some rather hefty energy inputs. On the Magnesol side: A) Magnesol is not universal. B) Use of Magnesol marries the manufacturer to a vendor. C) Rather costly filter presses are required to remove Magnesol from the fuel stream. D) Expended Magnesol must be handled as a solid waste, inclusive of the filtrate. E) Energy expenditures are required to manufacture and transport synthetic magnesium silicate (Magnesol). As a parenthetical aside, suggestion has been made and perhaps research conducted on feeding the expended Magnesol (sodium silicate) with filtrate to livestock. Soap, glycerol, FFA, mono- and di-glyceride laden sodium silicate as animal feed. Positively yummy, no doubt. This seems almost reminiscent of the days when feeding cement dust to livestock was not abnormal. On the water side: A) Water is universal, by and large. B) Water has a dual utility, as easily treated wash water can be reused as gray water irrigation. C) Acid/Base systems don't require inordinate amounts of water (or Magnesol for that matter). There is an extra heating cycle in a water wash system than a dry wash (Magnesol). Both flash the methanol from the fuel prior to washing. But the water wash system requires elevating from wash temperature to flash temperature. Both systems can use the heat recovered from their final flash to preheat the feedstock. This is where the energy equation between the two systems should be constructed to see precisely which uses more energy - manufacturing, transporting, filtering and disposing of Magnesol or elevating the temperature of the cooled, wet-washed, fuel to flash temp. Doubtful that Dallas Group would divulge their energy expenditures from manufacturing. All in all they both have their place. Neither is necessarily superior over the other. Todd Swearingen Bruno M. wrote: Magnesol, with a G in it, and not Manesol like in the title ;-) is used in the US to clear ( resfresh) frying oil and makes it last longer. It's produced by the Dallas Group of America Inc. www.dallasgrp.com/ It's simply a synthetic Magnesium Silicate, sold as an absorbent filter aid. They say: MAGNESOL® XL keeps shortening clean and free from impurities, which reduces the build-up of off-flavor, off-odors and color in used shortening. Shortening retains its fresh quality, lasts longer and fried products are always light, crisp and golden delicious. pr And in this PDF: www.dallasgrp.com/biodiesel.pdf you'll find on page 2 their analysis from BD cleaned with Magnesol compared to water washing. So, original made for refreshing fryer oil, it's not new in de BD world, the dallasgroup itself has already found in BD a new market and, this UK commercial site www.ukfueltech.com/ about BD tells ...: ~~ www.ukfueltech.com/biodiesel-magnesol-dry-washing.htm Magnesol - dry wash biodiesel clean Water in biodiesel is not a good idea. Most people would agree this is a true statement. Yet most people continue to wash their biodiesel with water, and then go on to dry their biodiesel after washing. The end result of this biodiesel washing with Magnesol is that you will have used a lot of water and a lot of time. Saves time: purify biodiesel in minutes not hours with Magnesol Saves energy: no drying required with Magnesol Saves disposal costs: NO water waste with Magnesol Magnesol is a truly exciting development in the biodiesel world. With Magnesol you can wash your biodiesel without water and save money. Producing ultra-pure biodiesel every time. Achieving fuel standards much easier than with water washing. Saving time and money. It sounds to good to be true, but it isn't. Magnesol works. Magnesol is especially formulated for biodiesel. Magnesol is produced by the Dallas Group of America Inc., which is a recognized world leader in oleo-chemical purification technology. Dallas is the only U.S. company actively marketing a commercial product for the adsorptive purification of biodiesel. Magnesol is developed by a dedicated team of specialists. In our opinion nobody does it better (or even comes close). The company’s synthetic magnesium silicate adsorbent, sold by UKFuelTech www.ukfueltech.com/ under the trademarked name Magnesol, is an “adsorbent filter aid” that ensures biodiesel
Re: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing
Magnesol is synthetic magnesium silicate, constructed specifically with receptor sights to attract contaminants such as free glycerol, water, FFAs and degraded glycerides. Todd Swearingen Jason Katie wrote: just exactly what is magnesol? i mean i know what it is but what is it made of? - Original Message - From: Chris Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 4:14 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Manesol pretreatment and washing Been having a play with a bag of Magnesol this week with impressive resuts. I made a sample batch of diesel, went over the top with the lye by about 2 grams per litre. I added the magnesol powder to the finished, seperated diesel and mixed for about 5 minuites. I removed the magnesol by filtering thru coffee filters several times (it was quite difficult to get it all out without a fine enough filter). The result is crystal clear biodiesel. I mean CRYSTAL clear, much better than I have EVER been able to get with water washing. Adding water to the diesel yields quick seperation, clarity is still 100% and the wash water is perfectly clear. 10grams per litre of magnesol has removed EVERY trace of soap and contaminants. Lets just say I will no longer be water washing. The next experiment was based on the claims that magnesol neutralises FFA. I got 2 samples of WVO and filtered them. One 250ml sample was treated with about 1.5g of magnesol and mixed for abut 10 minuites. The magnesol was filtered out of the sample. BOTH samples were processed as new oil with 3.5g lye per litre and 250ml meth per litre. After seperation and cooling the pretreated sample is clear, and the byproduct is a redish colour. The untreated sample shows an uncomplete reaction and a very dark nearly black byproduct. I have yet to try water washing these samples. It appears that the magnesol pretreatment has removed the ffa content and then the oil has been able to be processed as new oil. It should be quite easy to integrate into a process by adding an arbitrary amount of magnesol to the feedstock and mixing, PH measurements will tell you if more needs to be added. The waste magnesol, according to manufactutrers literature, can be composted, put into landfill, and even used as animal feed. The magnesol washing could be integrated into a semi continuous process easily, which is why I am looking at it. Another comment is that when using it for washing biodiesel it also seems to remove colour and odour from the biodesel. The magnesol washed samples are always paler than the water washed samples. If the used magnesol is put into water it instantly goes cramy white, as it gives up the soaps etc that it has absorbed. Kieth, if you are interested I have some photos of the different samples tested and washed. Maybe you could incorporate something aout it into the JTF page? If anyone wants these photos emailed let me know! I was impressed. Chris Bennett ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.7.0/345 - Release Date: 5/22/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
a pledge of medical personnel to not allow medical treatment to be run by the police. We will also be working with lawyers to fight these outrageous charges. If any legal aid could be offered nationally, it would really help. And so on, there's quite a lot more to be found, if you look. Best Keith WHY? There has to be a reason, whether it be legal or personal. The only relevent testimony was that provided by the state. WHY? There has to be a reason, again either legal or personal. No politics was allowed into the trial. Nothing about the brutal and arrogant reputation of the Cleveland Heights police. Precedent/reputation does not necessarily guarantee perpetual or even current practice. Nothing about how Carol was the one assaulted by the police WHERE? In what sequence and under what circumstances. Few things happen in a vacuum. Even if they did, where's the time line? and then humiliated at University Hospital when she was taken there for her injuries. Post prosecution/acquittal civil suit? The testimony of a courageous EMS worker who was afraid for Carol's safety from the police rampage was cut to a mere 4 minutes. Again, in what sequence of the events? It was obviously after the posting of fliers and apparently after the initial altercation, elsewise EMS probably wouldn't have been present. That opens up yet another avenue for civil suit. If it occurred during an attempt by the perp to remove fliers in an orderly manner as directed or some similar set of circumstances then there are grounds for an upper court to dismiss the conviction and strong grounds for an excessive force / civil suit. Where are the facts in the article to support the contentions being made? Absent... Aggregiously so. Only one character witness was allowed, and then only for a couple minutes. Character witnesses are generally for sentencing hearings. Actual witnesses are the primary need in the prosecutorial phase. The judge refused to inform the jury of a serious lie by the prosecution during closing testimony. Again, dismissal in an upper court. The first article created hundreds more questions than it supplied answers. Fair and balanced reporting would have helped stop the oscillation of the scales not encourage them. Outrage this event may be. But knee jerk isn't the best way to bring light or informed public outcry to this matter or any other. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: I wonder what this is all about. I don't see any crop circles or UFOs, no Round Tables, Bilderbergers or Freemasons, no New World Government, I didn't even see the S-word. It would be kind of strange to protest that this isn't happening in the US now and just write it off to hysterical over-emotionalism. This isn't right: One was poorly written, with no facts, only telling a reader what they should think or feel. It wasn't an article, it was an incitement. That's this one, that D. posted first: http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid= 1029Itemi Activist Brutalized and Arrested by Police for Postering If you read down a bit there's a lot of detail, a lot of reporting, and it's not particularly unusual stuff that's being reported. There's about 30kb of copy there. Not a bad job, some of it. You can read poorer stuff in the NYT. There's a lot of reportage in any news archives about similar events elsewhere, and that it's been spreading ever wider. Sure, check it out, check out the NYT too, check everything out. If you want facts then you'll have to go and wear out some shoe leather. Otherwise you can be satisfied with other things, like widespread corraboration, other kinds of spot checks you can make and so on, it's not impossible. That's not what's happening here though, this is a deadlock. Todd, you live in Ohio. Didn't this make any local waves at the time, or during the subsequent court proceedings? If not, wouldn't you say that there's enough in the worldcantwait coverage, and that it gels quite adequately with many other such events in the US, to inquire why the loud silence? Best Keith 1. Emotions are part of being human. Life without them would be boring. 2. The only, the only source that reported the story originally was the emotional one. The facts about what happened are embedded in it. 3. The difference between the two stories, as I recall, is that time had passed and emotions had cooled. But that doesn't mean that the original rendition's bits about the actions of the police were any less reprehensible. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Not shooting a messenger and it doesn't really matter if the both articles were from the same source or one was from Pluto
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
I will say I find it interesting that you can find the time to send all this email *about* this post, but don't have the time to research it on your own. Would you like to hear what I find interesting? It's how some people make such declarations when exactly the opposite has occured and they've been informed exactly as to what manner in which it has occured. Would you care to know what else I find interesting? Apparently few if any are interested in the disjointed and misleading manner in which the information was presented and how to better it. Instead they would prefer to take issue with a person who takes exception to such ineptitude. Have at it if you like. But Homey don't play that. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: Todd, I spent fifteen minutes sifting through several weeks of their archives just to get a snippet of the facts before I first replied. But I certainly can't spend hours hunting down what's relative and culling out what's not. *Which I did, although it took about a minute to read the original post, and then I went out and searched the 'net for other coverage. Maybe 5 minutes. Nothing I read convinced me that this was anything other than an assault on a peaceful protester. The only people saying otherwise are the ones who beat her up and arrested her. I value the right of peaceful protest and believe we all have a duty to protect it, and to protest when it is abused. That was the point of my post. Where are the facts? Took another three or four posts before someone finally provided them. Call it an error of omission on my part. I call it someone not having any free time on his hands - nada, none, zippo, zilch - to read on, and on, and on, and on until something came to the surface. *I Googled it - didn't take long at all. *Keith is right when he says: Technology has given the angry voices a more public outlet. The blogosphere is rife with postings castigating Coca-Cola, Wal-Mart and other big companies, citing everything from unfair labor practices to dangerous smokestack emissions. And: Why are you importing the rules of one type of journalism (print) into a discussion that focuses on online information? Do newspapers come with handy word-search engines, for instance? Do you see that rule of journalism much in evidence when it comes to blogs? That thing is a sort of blog. What goes on in the blogosphere is making big huge dents in the mainstream press these days, and making it a lot more difficult for the interests that own it to help paper over the spreading cracks in the concrete. They're kicking and screaming about it, but the blogs are forcing them to cover issues they'd been studiously ignoring... * Keith *is* a journalist, and he understands the distinction between a list posting and a media story. I learn a lot from this list, but not everything comes perfectly packaged. Even a long thread will sometimes have the true wisdom at the bottom. If there is a discussion of how to evaluate your BD, there may be quite a bit of back and forth at the top of the posting, then some graybeard will chime in with the answer at the bottom. The list is an organic thing, as are blogs. If you look at the JtF website, on the other hand, you can see where Keith's journalism background comes in: the text is well-organized, succinct, and then referenced, not unlike a well-done newspaper story. As for your volley of e-mails? Should the presumption be made that you live in the area and didn't know about it 'till now? * Not sure what the point of this is. I do not live in Cleveland Heights. I read about it here and evaluated the whole situation and then registered my feelings about the matter with the mayor and other public servants. I often take action based on what I read on the list. NAIS, voting problems and so on. I do learn about important issues here, do some research on my own, then act. That's a major part of the reason I'm on this list. I will say I find it interesting that you can find the time to send all this email *about* this post, but don't have the time to research it on your own. -Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
as for granola, it is full of fiber and nutrients. And an ample portion of fruits, nuts and flakes. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: Hi Hakan, good job on the website! Todd, as for granola, it is full of fiber and nutrients. My favorite granola source is my local coop, but it is easy to make yourself. I often separate out the glycerine from my biodiesel and mix it in with my granola. Fox is difficult to catch, and many people feel that too much meat can lead to heart disease and obesity. I Googled Swansons and they do not make a pre-packaged fox dinner. They do have Salisbury Steak, however, and I think you will find it a satisfactory substitute. Best regards, Mike Hakan Falk wrote: At 16:57 23/05/2006, you wrote: snip People generally don't like being led around the doggy park by a leash (2,500 words) and told what to think or believe, even if it is from a granola source. If I was after pre-packaged, I'd buy Swansons and watch Fox Knows. snip I do think that you are wrong here. It looks like we get daily, if not hourly, proof that most people like to be led around the doogy park by a leash. Otherwise they would have kicked GWB in the butt a long time ago. That you do not like it, it quite obvious and I do not like it either. Like I mentioned to Mike Weaver, I got tired of the propaganda and stopped scrolling down. I did go to their archives and searched for a little more information. So it can't be said that I had neither interest or initiative. If you like to form your own opinion today, then you do need both interest and initiative, do not waste energy. To get most out of energy, is one of my favorite subjects http://energysavingnow.com/ do not say that I am not on topic. I managed to create a little constructive propaganda out of this. LOL Hakan Fault me for not caring for the author's/webmaster's style if you wish. But the point is that if they failed to capture my full attention as someone who has interest in such maladies, then they're probably going to fail to gain the attention of others at an exponential rate. Etc. (instead of repetition of all the text) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
of being human. Life without them would be boring. 2. The only, the only source that reported the story originally was the emotional one. The facts about what happened are embedded in it. 3. The difference between the two stories, as I recall, is that time had passed and emotions had cooled. But that doesn't mean that the original rendition's bits about the actions of the police were any less reprehensible. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Not shooting a messenger and it doesn't really matter if the both articles were from the same source or one was from Pluto and the other from Venus. One was poorly written, with no facts, only telling a reader what they should think or feel. It wasn't an article, it was an incitement. The other was only half as bad, although still poorly written. Personally? I'd like the facts first and I'd prefer to formulate my own judgements and orchestrate my own emotions, not have them played like a harp by anyone with a purpose. There's an enormous difference in purpose between the two pieces. That was what was pointed out and what you don't seem to want to address. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The link I provided was the original and only link that covered the story. The additional link was to the same site and probably written by the same person. If the original link was too emotional then you should write the author of the article. Don't shoot the messenger. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. The link you provided was all emotion and no detail. The one offered in response included a bit more meat and considerably less emotion. The point is to let the facts speak for themselves. They don't lie or mislead. Emotions often lead readers astray, which is precisely what is intended far too much of the time. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The conversion of our country into a police state is not something I can take lightly. I am POed at what's happening. I hate seeing the promise of America being trashed by a couple of oil barons and their henchmen, oh, and Ms. Rice. The facts were there in the link I gave. If you wish to dig deeper, be my guest. In this day and age of disinformation originating from propaganda disseminated by the US gov, paid for by our tax dollars, who are you going to trust? Have you seen the reportage from the Miami FTAA convention where people, some elderly, who were peacefully protesting were brutally assaulted? The USA is becoming a huge gulag, one day at a time, imo. The incident in Ohio with Carol Fisher was not an isolated incident. Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. Peace, D. Mindock PS Another update below: May 11, 10pm: Carol Fisher has been released! We'll send out more info when we have it. In the meantime, this is an excellent development. But it's also NOT over. We don't know what the judge and other authorities will do next. Carol's sentencing date is June 2. She still faces 3 years in jail and thousands of dollars in fines. We plan to appeal the verdict and challenge all the gross violations of her rights. Click here to find out what you can do to help. == - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio How about a little less emotionally charged, speech and a little more of the facts? Nothing personal. Just that the link you
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
at the time, or during the subsequent court proceedings? If not, wouldn't you say that there's enough in the worldcantwait coverage, and that it gels quite adequately with many other such events in the US, to inquire why the loud silence? Best Keith 1. Emotions are part of being human. Life without them would be boring. 2. The only, the only source that reported the story originally was the emotional one. The facts about what happened are embedded in it. 3. The difference between the two stories, as I recall, is that time had passed and emotions had cooled. But that doesn't mean that the original rendition's bits about the actions of the police were any less reprehensible. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Not shooting a messenger and it doesn't really matter if the both articles were from the same source or one was from Pluto and the other from Venus. One was poorly written, with no facts, only telling a reader what they should think or feel. It wasn't an article, it was an incitement. The other was only half as bad, although still poorly written. Personally? I'd like the facts first and I'd prefer to formulate my own judgements and orchestrate my own emotions, not have them played like a harp by anyone with a purpose. There's an enormous difference in purpose between the two pieces. That was what was pointed out and what you don't seem to want to address. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The link I provided was the original and only link that covered the story. The additional link was to the same site and probably written by the same person. If the original link was too emotional then you should write the author of the article. Don't shoot the messenger. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. The link you provided was all emotion and no detail. The one offered in response included a bit more meat and considerably less emotion. The point is to let the facts speak for themselves. They don't lie or mislead. Emotions often lead readers astray, which is precisely what is intended far too much of the time. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The conversion of our country into a police state is not something I can take lightly. I am POed at what's happening. I hate seeing the promise of America being trashed by a couple of oil barons and their henchmen, oh, and Ms. Rice. The facts were there in the link I gave. If you wish to dig deeper, be my guest. In this day and age of disinformation originating from propaganda disseminated by the US gov, paid for by our tax dollars, who are you going to trust? Have you seen the reportage from the Miami FTAA convention where people, some elderly, who were peacefully protesting were brutally assaulted? The USA is becoming a huge gulag, one day at a time, imo. The incident in Ohio with Carol Fisher was not an isolated incident. Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. Peace, D. Mindock PS Another update below: May 11, 10pm: Carol Fisher has been released! We'll send out more info when we have it. In the meantime, this is an excellent development. But it's also NOT over. We don't know what the judge and other authorities will do next. Carol's sentencing date is June 2. She still faces 3 years in jail and thousands of dollars in fines. We plan to appeal the verdict and challenge all the gross violations of her rights. Click here to find out what you can do to help. == - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio How about a little less emotionally charged, speech and a little more of the facts? Nothing personal. Just that the link you offered was 1,000% lopsided. Here's a slightly more factual bit, almost devoid of facts in comparison. http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=view id=1482Itemid=184 I'm sure that if one were to dig a little deeper there could be found a more thorough description of the events. While it sounds like a legit beef, it would be great to be afforded details, not whitewash on one side or hype on the other. If you do this stuff long enough, you soon realize that facts are your
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
, no Round Tables, Bilderbergers or Freemasons, no New World Government, I didn't even see the S-word. It would be kind of strange to protest that this isn't happening in the US now and just write it off to hysterical over-emotionalism. This isn't right: One was poorly written, with no facts, only telling a reader what they should think or feel. It wasn't an article, it was an incitement. That's this one, that D. posted first: http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid= 1029Itemi Activist Brutalized and Arrested by Police for Postering If you read down a bit there's a lot of detail, a lot of reporting, and it's not particularly unusual stuff that's being reported. There's about 30kb of copy there. Not a bad job, some of it. You can read poorer stuff in the NYT. There's a lot of reportage in any news archives about similar events elsewhere, and that it's been spreading ever wider. Sure, check it out, check out the NYT too, check everything out. If you want facts then you'll have to go and wear out some shoe leather. Otherwise you can be satisfied with other things, like widespread corraboration, other kinds of spot checks you can make and so on, it's not impossible. That's not what's happening here though, this is a deadlock. Todd, you live in Ohio. Didn't this make any local waves at the time, or during the subsequent court proceedings? If not, wouldn't you say that there's enough in the worldcantwait coverage, and that it gels quite adequately with many other such events in the US, to inquire why the loud silence? Best Keith 1. Emotions are part of being human. Life without them would be boring. 2. The only, the only source that reported the story originally was the emotional one. The facts about what happened are embedded in it. 3. The difference between the two stories, as I recall, is that time had passed and emotions had cooled. But that doesn't mean that the original rendition's bits about the actions of the police were any less reprehensible. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Not shooting a messenger and it doesn't really matter if the both articles were from the same source or one was from Pluto and the other from Venus. One was poorly written, with no facts, only telling a reader what they should think or feel. It wasn't an article, it was an incitement. The other was only half as bad, although still poorly written. Personally? I'd like the facts first and I'd prefer to formulate my own judgements and orchestrate my own emotions, not have them played like a harp by anyone with a purpose. There's an enormous difference in purpose between the two pieces. That was what was pointed out and what you don't seem to want to address. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The link I provided was the original and only link that covered the story. The additional link was to the same site and probably written by the same person. If the original link was too emotional then you should write the author of the article. Don't shoot the messenger. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. The link you provided was all emotion and no detail. The one offered in response included a bit more meat and considerably less emotion. The point is to let the facts speak for themselves. They don't lie or mislead. Emotions often lead readers astray, which is precisely what is intended far too much of the time. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The conversion of our country into a police state is not something I can take lightly. I am POed at what's happening. I hate seeing the promise of America being trashed by a couple of oil barons and their henchmen, oh, and Ms. Rice. The facts were there in the link I gave. If you wish to dig deeper, be my guest. In this day and age of disinformation originating from propaganda disseminated by the US gov, paid for by our tax dollars, who are you going to trust? Have you seen the reportage from the Miami FTAA convention where people, some elderly, who were peacefully protesting were brutally assaulted? The USA is becoming a huge gulag, one day at a time, imo. The incident in Ohio with Carol Fisher was not an isolated incident. Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
World Government, I didn't even see the S-word. It would be kind of strange to protest that this isn't happening in the US now and just write it off to hysterical over-emotionalism. This isn't right: One was poorly written, with no facts, only telling a reader what they should think or feel. It wasn't an article, it was an incitement. That's this one, that D. posted first: http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid= 1029Itemi Activist Brutalized and Arrested by Police for Postering If you read down a bit there's a lot of detail, a lot of reporting, and it's not particularly unusual stuff that's being reported. There's about 30kb of copy there. Not a bad job, some of it. You can read poorer stuff in the NYT. There's a lot of reportage in any news archives about similar events elsewhere, and that it's been spreading ever wider. Sure, check it out, check out the NYT too, check everything out. If you want facts then you'll have to go and wear out some shoe leather. Otherwise you can be satisfied with other things, like widespread corraboration, other kinds of spot checks you can make and so on, it's not impossible. That's not what's happening here though, this is a deadlock. Todd, you live in Ohio. Didn't this make any local waves at the time, or during the subsequent court proceedings? If not, wouldn't you say that there's enough in the worldcantwait coverage, and that it gels quite adequately with many other such events in the US, to inquire why the loud silence? Best Keith 1. Emotions are part of being human. Life without them would be boring. 2. The only, the only source that reported the story originally was the emotional one. The facts about what happened are embedded in it. 3. The difference between the two stories, as I recall, is that time had passed and emotions had cooled. But that doesn't mean that the original rendition's bits about the actions of the police were any less reprehensible. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Not shooting a messenger and it doesn't really matter if the both articles were from the same source or one was from Pluto and the other from Venus. One was poorly written, with no facts, only telling a reader what they should think or feel. It wasn't an article, it was an incitement. The other was only half as bad, although still poorly written. Personally? I'd like the facts first and I'd prefer to formulate my own judgements and orchestrate my own emotions, not have them played like a harp by anyone with a purpose. There's an enormous difference in purpose between the two pieces. That was what was pointed out and what you don't seem to want to address. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The link I provided was the original and only link that covered the story. The additional link was to the same site and probably written by the same person. If the original link was too emotional then you should write the author of the article. Don't shoot the messenger. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. The link you provided was all emotion and no detail. The one offered in response included a bit more meat and considerably less emotion. The point is to let the facts speak for themselves. They don't lie or mislead. Emotions often lead readers astray, which is precisely what is intended far too much of the time. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The conversion of our country into a police state is not something I can take lightly. I am POed at what's happening. I hate seeing the promise of America being trashed by a couple of oil barons and their henchmen, oh, and Ms. Rice. The facts were there in the link I gave. If you wish to dig deeper, be my guest. In this day and age of disinformation originating from propaganda disseminated by the US gov, paid for by our tax dollars, who are you going to trust? Have you seen the reportage from the Miami FTAA convention where people, some elderly, who were peacefully protesting were brutally assaulted? The USA is becoming a huge gulag, one day at a time, imo. The incident in Ohio with Carol Fisher was not an isolated
Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine
If it's a secret, include the word iguana anywhere in your response and I'll drop the subject. No real secret Tom. I took the numbers for the caustic you used, extrapolated the number from our hands on experience with FFA recovery and chucked the number your direction. Excess acid is required to get a complete split of the soaps. Skimping will permit some soap to remain in the glycerol layer, leaving a darker glycerol layer (incomplete reaction). This reaction should be conducted in the presence of heat. Otherwise you will find that a high percentage of the soaps from your more saturated oils (tallow, palm, coconut, etc.) will not be cracked, leaving you with four layers in the recovery reactor instead of the preferred three. The fourth layer will be where the interface layer between phats/oils and the glycerol/methanol/acidic layer should be. Once complete, the heavily acidified glycerol needs to be neutralized. Best method is to use a potassium methoxide solution, yielding more KxPO4 (K1, K2 and K3). Using methoxide will net a a considerably dryer (less watered) methanol product from your evaporation/distillation recovery than will caustic dissolved in water. Sorry I don't have a stoichiometric + X number for you. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello to all, The short version: 1. To split the glycerine cocktail must one merely neutralize the NaOH/KOH used to produce it or is it necessary to go beyond neutral, to acid? 2. If it must be acidic, if one knows how much H3PO4 it takes to neutralize the mix, can one predict how much more H3PO4 it will take, to get the split? The long version: On 4/10/06 Todd Swearingen, in a post entitled Re: Separating Glycerine suggested that I would need to add 510 - 590 ml of 85% phosphoric acid to each cubie (4.5 gal/17.7L plastic container) of glycerine cocktail to achieve a split. Sure enough, when I added 540 ml (lowest) - 580ml (highest) of 85% H3PO4 to the next cubies of glycerine mix I got separation into mineral precip, crude glycerine, free fatty acids. I've been wondering ever since how he was able to make the calculation/prediction or is he just a good guesser? On 12/02/05 Bioclaire Nederland described how to calculate the amount of H3PO4 to add for separation if one knew the amount of NaOH used to process the WVO that yielded the Glycerine cocktail. (See separating Glycerine separating Glycerine Mistake!). The explanation is based on the equation for neutralizing NaOH using H3PO4. H3PO4 + 3NaOH -- Na3PO4 + 3H2O 1 Mole (98g) of H3PO4 will neutralize 3Moles (120g) NaOH If one knows how much NaOH (or KOH) was used in the batch(es) that produced the Glycerine cocktail it should be possible to calculate how much H3PO4 it would take to neutralize (and split?) the mix. Here is where the problem, and questions come in: The Glycerine mix I was using (4.5 gal/17.7L) containers each came from two 76L batches (152 L WVO, total). The oil I used for these batches titrated at 1.0 - 1.5 g NaOH/L of WVO. (684 - 760 g of NaOH) Adjusting for 85% H3PO4 (115g of 85% H3PO4 would contain the 98g - i.e. 1M.- of H3PO4) and using the density of 85% H3PO4 (~ 1.59g/ml), that I should only need 460ml of the 85% H3PO4 to neutralize the lye used to process the oil. Not all of the lye is in the glycerine cocktail. Some is in the BD. I use 0.20 ml H3PO4/L of oil processed when I do my first wash (15ml/76L batch or 30ml for two batches). This results in wash water very close to neutral suggesting to me that approximately 50 g of the lye used to process the WVO comes out in the BD, not in the Glyc. mix. The 710g of lye that is in the glyc. mix should only take about 430 ml of the 85% H3PO4 to be neutralized. None of the cubies would separate w less than 540ml of the 85% H3PO4. This suggests that it takes more than merely neutralizing the glycerine mix to get it to split. (Answer to Ques #1?) Note: I'm doing a lot of this in my basement or in a shed out back, not a lab. So how did you do it Todd?Neutralize + 20%? If it's a secret, include the word iguana anywhere in your response and I'll drop the subject. Still puzzled Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
Not shooting a messenger and it doesn't really matter if the both articles were from the same source or one was from Pluto and the other from Venus. One was poorly written, with no facts, only telling a reader what they should think or feel. It wasn't an article, it was an incitement. The other was only half as bad, although still poorly written. Personally? I'd like the facts first and I'd prefer to formulate my own judgements and orchestrate my own emotions, not have them played like a harp by anyone with a purpose. There's an enormous difference in purpose between the two pieces. That was what was pointed out and what you don't seem to want to address. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The link I provided was the original and only link that covered the story. The additional link was to the same site and probably written by the same person. If the original link was too emotional then you should write the author of the article. Don't shoot the messenger. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. The link you provided was all emotion and no detail. The one offered in response included a bit more meat and considerably less emotion. The point is to let the facts speak for themselves. They don't lie or mislead. Emotions often lead readers astray, which is precisely what is intended far too much of the time. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The conversion of our country into a police state is not something I can take lightly. I am POed at what's happening. I hate seeing the promise of America being trashed by a couple of oil barons and their henchmen, oh, and Ms. Rice. The facts were there in the link I gave. If you wish to dig deeper, be my guest. In this day and age of disinformation originating from propaganda disseminated by the US gov, paid for by our tax dollars, who are you going to trust? Have you seen the reportage from the Miami FTAA convention where people, some elderly, who were peacefully protesting were brutally assaulted? The USA is becoming a huge gulag, one day at a time, imo. The incident in Ohio with Carol Fisher was not an isolated incident. Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. Peace, D. Mindock PS Another update below: May 11, 10pm: Carol Fisher has been released! We'll send out more info when we have it. In the meantime, this is an excellent development. But it's also NOT over. We don't know what the judge and other authorities will do next. Carol's sentencing date is June 2. She still faces 3 years in jail and thousands of dollars in fines. We plan to appeal the verdict and challenge all the gross violations of her rights. Click here to find out what you can do to help. == - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio How about a little less emotionally charged, speech and a little more of the facts? Nothing personal. Just that the link you offered was 1,000% lopsided. Here's a slightly more factual bit, almost devoid of facts in comparison. http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1482Itemid=184 I'm sure that if one were to dig a little deeper there could be found a more thorough description of the events. While it sounds like a legit beef, it would be great to be afforded details, not whitewash on one side or hype on the other. If you do this stuff long enough, you soon realize that facts are your best friend and uber emotions all too frequently alienate potential advocates. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: This is happening in America, land of the free home of the brave. America is becoming a land of no compassion for common folk who protest against the crimes of BushCo. Even peace loving pacifists are being put into FBI databases. Anyone who loves peace and hates war is seen as a terrorist to the Oval Office where our Great Decider presides. Peace, D. Mindock http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1029Itemi ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. The link you provided was all emotion and no detail. The one offered in response included a bit more meat and considerably less emotion. The point is to let the facts speak for themselves. They don't lie or mislead. Emotions often lead readers astray, which is precisely what is intended far too much of the time. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: Todd, The conversion of our country into a police state is not something I can take lightly. I am POed at what's happening. I hate seeing the promise of America being trashed by a couple of oil barons and their henchmen, oh, and Ms. Rice. The facts were there in the link I gave. If you wish to dig deeper, be my guest. In this day and age of disinformation originating from propaganda disseminated by the US gov, paid for by our tax dollars, who are you going to trust? Have you seen the reportage from the Miami FTAA convention where people, some elderly, who were peacefully protesting were brutally assaulted? The USA is becoming a huge gulag, one day at a time, imo. The incident in Ohio with Carol Fisher was not an isolated incident. Your link, to the same site, is not in disagreement with the link I gave. It's just an update. Same story, same site. I don't know how you can say my link was lopsided. Peace, D. Mindock PS Another update below: May 11, 10pm: Carol Fisher has been released! We'll send out more info when we have it. In the meantime, this is an excellent development. But it's also NOT over. We don't know what the judge and other authorities will do next. Carol's sentencing date is June 2. She still faces 3 years in jail and thousands of dollars in fines. We plan to appeal the verdict and challenge all the gross violations of her rights. Click here to find out what you can do to help. == - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio How about a little less emotionally charged, speech and a little more of the facts? Nothing personal. Just that the link you offered was 1,000% lopsided. Here's a slightly more factual bit, almost devoid of facts in comparison. http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1482Itemid=184 I'm sure that if one were to dig a little deeper there could be found a more thorough description of the events. While it sounds like a legit beef, it would be great to be afforded details, not whitewash on one side or hype on the other. If you do this stuff long enough, you soon realize that facts are your best friend and uber emotions all too frequently alienate potential advocates. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: This is happening in America, land of the free home of the brave. America is becoming a land of no compassion for common folk who protest against the crimes of BushCo. Even peace loving pacifists are being put into FBI databases. Anyone who loves peace and hates war is seen as a terrorist to the Oval Office where our Great Decider presides. Peace, D. Mindock http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1029Itemi ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Police Brutality in Ohio
How about a little less emotionally charged, speech and a little more of the facts? Nothing personal. Just that the link you offered was 1,000% lopsided. Here's a slightly more factual bit, almost devoid of facts in comparison. http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1482Itemid=184 I'm sure that if one were to dig a little deeper there could be found a more thorough description of the events. While it sounds like a legit beef, it would be great to be afforded details, not whitewash on one side or hype on the other. If you do this stuff long enough, you soon realize that facts are your best friend and uber emotions all too frequently alienate potential advocates. Todd Swearingen D. Mindock wrote: This is happening in America, land of the free home of the brave. America is becoming a land of no compassion for common folk who protest against the crimes of BushCo. Even peace loving pacifists are being put into FBI databases. Anyone who loves peace and hates war is seen as a terrorist to the Oval Office where our Great Decider presides. Peace, D. Mindock http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=1029Itemi ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Jason, ok, obviously i touched a bare nerve I don't think there was ever or is any bare nerve. To me, and perhaps only to me, that implies some sort of agony, perhaps even incapacitating. That's not quite what has happened, much less continues. It did take a fair stretch of mental taffy to get a handle on what was unfolding though. But it all came down to one simple acknowledgement - when one is faced with lunacy, it's dealt with straight forward and accepted at face value. Trying to figure the loonies out is not going to alter their reality. All a bit sad or disappointing. But once you know you're dealing with lunatics or shades of the same, there's no real nerve they can hit. About all they can do is force others to perform a little maintenance, such as the timeline Keith posted. of which i know nothing about, Which was largely why Keith went to the effort to draft such a long legend of madness - and that's actually the abridged version.by about two or three thousand percent. and apologize Not necessary when done unknowingly. There are occassionally those who intentionally try to stir the pot just for grins and giggles just to see what might come up. They would be from whom an apology might be owed. for bringing up bad memories. sorry folks. A sad state of affairs and enormous waste of talent and time for all concerned, yes. But I wouldn't go so far as to call them bad memories. In fact? The grassroots biodiesel sector probably got a break by the mad hatters revealing themselves so readily. There's obviously some good to be had even along such a debris strewn path.. No worries Jason. Todd Swearingen Jason Katie wrote: ok, obviously i touched a bare nerve of which i know nothing about, and apologize for bringing up bad memories. sorry folks. jason - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes Hi Hakan Gustl, You are absolutely right, I remember that you were not alone and you had strong support from me among several other members on the list. I have never heard Keith request or ask for donations, on the contrary, he have always supported the biodiesel community, without asking anything in return. Maybe he sometimes, with reasons, been quite tough with some list members that was totally out of line. Gustl and Keith, between us I am probably the oldest and as it happens a little bit sick now. I'm sorry to hear that. Please take good care of yourself Hakan. Nothing serious, being sick will pass, contrary to being an idiot, as the one who calls Keith a sick old man. Well, yes. Thankyou. That won't pass, will it. I don't think that old dog is going to be learning any new tricks, it's too late now. It's terrible what some people inflict on their lives. It's hard to summon much sympathy though, sometimes. Okay, I don't really try, it's true. It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such a good opportunity. - Prema, Northern Buddhist nun. The slings and arrows of outrageous idiots. Never mind, I don't. Thankyou Hakan. Get well soon. Love to Marta. Regards Keith Hakan At 16:38 07/05/2006, you wrote: Hallo Keith, Just in case people weren't around during the time the list suffered from the denial of service and mail flooding time let me tell that when we changed servers it was me, Gustl Steiner-Zehender, who called for donations to defray costs not you. I handled the money and saw that it was all accounted for and properly distributed. I also was responsible for receipts for donations and due to computer problems and lost information I think that may have been mishandled although not intentionally. I believe I still owe a fellow living in Saudi Arabia a receipt for his very generous donation although it has taken me a lot of remembering to come up with that. Whoever it was please drop me an email and I will get that receipt out to you and please forgive me for the oversight. It was definitely not intentional. Again, just to be clear. Keith had absolutely NOTHING to do with the request for donations at all. It was all done by another sick old man by the name of Gustl Steiner-Zehender. Happy Happy, Gustl Saturday, 06 May, 2006, 16:05:51, you wrote: ...snip... KA The official sewer rat at Infopop and some other folks from there KA lurk around here at the Biofuel list archives like, well, like KA sewer rats, sniffing about and telling the same sort of stuff KA offlist to new members and inviting them to Infopop. List members KA complain about it. Here's one, we have quite a few, not only from KA this one, similar stuff from the Appleseed Queen and so on, whose KA biodiesel book Joe Street didn't seem to like much: Please be
Re: [Biofuel] gelled rebatch
Ryan, Once, a bit over six years ago, I rather hastily put together a gallon of what I thought would be biodiesel from hempseed oil. Sure enough, it glopped out. I racked my brain as to what went wrong and could come up with nothing, believing that I'd done everything to the tee. Over the next year, we processed more than 2,000 gallons from the same stores of hempseed oil. Not a problem. The only possible reason for one small failure out of so much volume? Human error. It happens. Taking notes helps reduce the possibilities of such. Racking your brain often helps resolve others. You might ask yourself what it was that made you think your first go 'round was too soapy. Todd Swearingen Ryan Pope wrote: I attempeted to post this last week. Didn't come through due to glitches of some sort. *-*-*-*-*-*-* I made my first small batch last Wednesday, and it turned out OK; I thought it had a little too much soapiness, so I reprocessed it. 100ml methnol, 3.5g NaOH, 1.5hrs, as per directions. After settling, I had a nasty lump of gelled stuff. I thought maybe it was the cold, it did get down to 45-50 F that night. Brought the jug indoors overnight. Nope, still thick. Better, but still gooey. Anyway, can you overprocess? What happens if you do? Thanks, Ryan *-*-*-*-*-*-* SINCE THEN; I'm thinking it was all the container I used. It was a LDPE container, and I think the finished diesel dissolved some plastic that the SVO the first time didn't. Add heat, and it dissolved even more. My original question is still valid though...can you OVERprocess? And what happens? And my second small trial batch is settling right now...so far so good. Ryan _ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] gelled rebatch
You'd have to ask the folks over in China. All that came into the warehouse was the sterile seed, which was pressed for oil. I presume that the stalks were used for fibre/fabric, as that's where the majority of the industrial hemp came from at the time. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: And what happened to the REST of the hemp plant? Appal Energy wrote: Ryan, Once, a bit over six years ago, I rather hastily put together a gallon of what I thought would be biodiesel from hempseed oil. Sure enough, it glopped out. I racked my brain as to what went wrong and could come up with nothing, believing that I'd done everything to the tee. Over the next year, we processed more than 2,000 gallons from the same stores of hempseed oil. Not a problem. The only possible reason for one small failure out of so much volume? Human error. It happens. Taking notes helps reduce the possibilities of such. Racking your brain often helps resolve others. You might ask yourself what it was that made you think your first go 'round was too soapy. Todd Swearingen Ryan Pope wrote: I attempeted to post this last week. Didn't come through due to glitches of some sort. *-*-*-*-*-*-* I made my first small batch last Wednesday, and it turned out OK; I thought it had a little too much soapiness, so I reprocessed it. 100ml methnol, 3.5g NaOH, 1.5hrs, as per directions. After settling, I had a nasty lump of gelled stuff. I thought maybe it was the cold, it did get down to 45-50 F that night. Brought the jug indoors overnight. Nope, still thick. Better, but still gooey. Anyway, can you overprocess? What happens if you do? Thanks, Ryan *-*-*-*-*-*-* SINCE THEN; I'm thinking it was all the container I used. It was a LDPE container, and I think the finished diesel dissolved some plastic that the SVO the first time didn't. Add heat, and it dissolved even more. My original question is still valid though...can you OVERprocess? And what happens? And my second small trial batch is settling right now...so far so good. Ryan _ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Sorry Jesse. I put off a response to you and then got swamped. So I guess I'm operating the same as the petro companies at the moment relative to their inventories - last in, first out. I'd rather move on. But to answer your post? No anger here. At best it's disappointment in the low calibre of some humans. I think Keith framed it best with his friend Prema's quote. It's not often a person gets the chance to live a human life, it's quite rare, one shouldn't waste such an opportunity. What are you saying here? Of course we don't join them in the sulphur pit. I'm saying no coddling or playing to egos. Let them scorch themselves or dung themselves up. Anyone can be wrong, Todd. But then there are those who are intentionally wrong and revel in the havoc they create. As for this? We know we must not waste our energy on negative feelings, though it happens. It's not a matter of feeling, but facts. Of COURSE it's a matter of feelings. Wait a sec, look at that paragraph: Fits of rage, revenge or lack of reason... these ARE feelings. People get desperate when they aren't getting their feelings acknowledged. Revenge is a goal/direction. Lack of reason is a condition. Rage? Sure. But in context it pans out to be nothing more than the fruit of someone who has lost all control and ability to reason. What was implied was that what a lunatic feels is of no matter to me, especially when the expectation is for others to cater to those short-circuited, delicate, sensibilities (feelings) in order to prevent mayhem from being wrought. Enough time has been wasted on such Tom Foolery and it's evident that virtually nothing will remedy the sad state of mind that exists in some people. Pity is about the best I can muster and even that's a pure waste of effort. Feel what they wish. But all that's necessary to deal after a long historical record is what manifests as facts. Again, no coddling. Or to put it otherwise, catering to clowns will always be a losing proposition. Nothing personal. No anger. Just honest assessment. And then life goes on.. Todd Swearingen mark manchester wrote: Todd, thanks for your response. I read you very often and I respect your views SO MUCH, but here, you just look angry. Wait, let me read it again. Oops, I don't know if this changes anything, but we have a gender confusion here that I should rectify. Actually, that brings to mind a funny story about going once to a club in Switzerland where the MC was a beautiful woman and was a WONDERful host, and at the end of the night she took off her wig. Yikes! A guy! I was FLOORED!! The original deception! I was so surprised, and that's why I'm telling you that my address has my husband's name and it's confusing for everyone and I'm very sorry about this. Whew! Let's go on? We may be lucky enough to have a lot of gay list members and this wasn't where I was going with this. Not my point. Time to scroll down. From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 14:50:25 -0400 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes Mark, How can it be that we are so rough on each other sometimes? Humans tend to create their own hell all by themselves. Just because they choose to do so doesn't mean that everyone else should join them in the sulfur pit, or pig pit as the case may be. What are you saying here? Of course we don't join them in the sulphur pit. Perhaps it's unavoidable: No. It's almost always a matter of choice. Often really peculiar choices predicated upon some even more peculiar inner workings in some very peculiar brains. Yes, sir, we make choices on very odd reasoning sometimes. For instance, we like apples, not apricots. It can be very personal, random and ridiculous. smart people, If they were, they wouldn't. Anyone can be wrong, Todd. I feel like a dork writing this now. But we are two people at our computers, typing. The context is this wonderful sustainability list, which gives us so much, and which WE SHAPE DAILY with the spirit that we give it. (Mainly that you and Keith, dear Gustl, Hakan, the many Mikes, Pan Ruti and Joe give it... I am just a fly on the wall.) heartfelt issues, If the issues were the focal point the mindlessness wouldn't persist. Grrr! all of us groping toward an uncertain... whatever. No gray areas on these matters. Just gray matter that's seriously befuddled amongst some. This exchange has had my head in a knot. That's precisely where some would like for it to be. Generate confusion, anger and frustration and those feeling such knots and ills will oft migrate to whomever coddles them more readily, not necessarily the places where they can find the best answers. We know we must not waste our energy on negative
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Mark, How can it be that we are so rough on each other sometimes? Humans tend to create their own hell all by themselves. Just because they choose to do so doesn't mean that everyone else should join them in the sulfur pit, or pig pit as the case may be. Perhaps it's unavoidable: No. It's almost always a matter of choice. Often really peculiar choices predicated upon some even more peculiar inner workings in some very peculiar brains. smart people, If they were, they wouldn't. heartfelt issues, If the issues were the focal point the mindlessness wouldn't persist. all of us groping toward an uncertain... whatever. No gray areas on these matters. Just gray matter that's seriously befuddled amongst some. This exchange has had my head in a knot. That's precisely where some would like for it to be. Generate confusion, anger and frustration and those feeling such knots and ills will oft migrate to whomever coddles them more readily, not necessarily the places where they can find the best answers. We know we must not waste our energy on negative feelings, though it happens. It's not a matter of feeling, but facts. Give people enough rope to hang themselves and those in their fits of rage, animosity, revenge or lack of reason generally do. Sometimes people are hell bent on destruction, not only of anything worthwhile, but often themselves. A reasonably wise course is to protect and preserve what you can and let the idiots bungee jump with their over-lengthed ropes. Todd Swearingen mark manchester wrote: Hakan, Gustl, Keith, and all, As in a marriage, there's a shaking of the rugs occasionally on a list, where there may even be tears. It's shocking to see good people find such frustration, but it does, and I hope the fresh air is flowing in now. Dear members. How can it be that we are so rough on each other sometimes? Perhaps it's unavoidable: smart people, heartfelt issues, all of us groping toward an uncertain... whatever. This exchange has had my head in a knot. We know we must not waste our energy on negative feelings, though it happens. My two cents. Jesse From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 17:08:49 +0200 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes Gustl, You are absolutely right, I remember that you were not alone and you had strong support from me among several other members on the list. I have never heard Keith request or ask for donations, on the contrary, he have always supported the biodiesel community, without asking anything in return. Maybe he sometimes, with reasons, been quite tough with some list members that was totally out of line. Gustl and Keith, between us I am probably the oldest and as it happens a little bit sick now. Nothing serious, being sick will pass, contrary to being an idiot, as the one who calls Keith a sick old man. Hakan At 16:38 07/05/2006, you wrote: Hallo Keith, Just in case people weren't around during the time the list suffered from the denial of service and mail flooding time let me tell that when we changed servers it was me, Gustl Steiner-Zehender, who called for donations to defray costs not you. I handled the money and saw that it was all accounted for and properly distributed. I also was responsible for receipts for donations and due to computer problems and lost information I think that may have been mishandled although not intentionally. I believe I still owe a fellow living in Saudi Arabia a receipt for his very generous donation although it has taken me a lot of remembering to come up with that. Whoever it was please drop me an email and I will get that receipt out to you and please forgive me for the oversight. It was definitely not intentional. Again, just to be clear. Keith had absolutely NOTHING to do with the request for donations at all. It was all done by another sick old man by the name of Gustl Steiner-Zehender. Happy Happy, Gustl Saturday, 06 May, 2006, 16:05:51, you wrote: ...snip... KA The official sewer rat at Infopop and some other folks from there KA lurk around here at the Biofuel list archives like, well, like KA sewer rats, sniffing about and telling the same sort of stuff KA offlist to new members and inviting them to Infopop. List members KA complain about it. Here's one, we have quite a few, not only from KA this one, similar stuff from the Appleseed Queen and so on, whose KA biodiesel book Joe Street didn't seem to like much: Please be aware that the vast majority of the biodiesel world holds Keith Addison and his Journey to Forever site in total contempt. Keith Addison is a sick old man who begs for money on his Journey to Forever site, supposedly to help the poor and needy but he actually uses the money donated to him for his day to day expenses. The Journey
Re: [Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: Sweet catalyst continuous processes
Yo dee ho Keith, This offlist stuff these folks do here happens especially if anyone mentions Aleks's Foolproof acid-base method, they really hate Aleks, though they've never encountered him in any way. He's at Journey to Forever but they're not, you see. (They hate Todd Swearingen too.) Sniffle..., smurf..., snif..., huck. My feelings are oh so hurt. As girl Mark and Ginny in Denver so helpfully pointed out, forget everything there and start over. Doh!!! And then the self-appointed expert, at least expert enough as to declare others less than capable - that would be the poor dear Ginny in Denver - just couldn't seem to identify how or where she had fouled up a five gallon batch and started asking for help from anyone who had some insight. Had she not forgotten everything she had read at JTF (as she's instructed everyone else to do) it's rather doubtful that the dear would have found herself in midst of such a problem without a clue as to how to extract herself. Oh well. People pick their own poison. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg37170.html I'd all but forgotten dear Mr. Legge. I still can't forgive myself for outing him (not!) and his nom de plume. Funny that. I don't think he's ever forgiven me either, sniff..., smurf..., snuffle..., snarf. Anyhow, thanks for the stroll down memory lane Keith. A nice, tidy, compressed nutshell of a package of destruction that's really screwed a lot of people that could have been doing a lot of good. Glad you still take some time to check the bilge pumps and make sure the sewage and it's rats don't decimate the entire grassroots biodiesel sector. Now if you'll forgive me, I'm headed to the pantry for a pint of black and tan and then I'm off to fake another 325 gallons of acid/base biodiesel..., you know..., Aleks' method that doesn't work. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Please note the bit at the end: No further discussion please. As I said, we keep it away unless it needs saying, now it's said, so leave it, or it will only cause confusion and distraction, as intended. -- Hello Jason they are discussing the sugar catalyst in detail at http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/9771067631/p/1 Sure they are, but if a person wanders in there the first thing that hits them is this: Saint Tilly, DD; KE; Sewer Rat (by appointment) I didn't have to fiddle with it, it worked just fine, but I fiddled with it anyway and now it works even finer Keith Addison explaining his cosmic theory of the Foolproof Disaster With ne'er a link to the original: http://snipurl.com/q2lz Re: [Biofuel] acid/base method for conversion of wvo to FAMEs Nor to this, for instance: http://snipurl.com/q210 [Biofuel] Water from Acid process And nobody says er...: http://snipurl.com/pie8 [Biofuel] Biodiesel test results 99.09% completion says the GC, way better than standard spec. So what's the disaster? This: It doesn't work. Uh-huh. But I'll come back to that. This is the barest tip of an iceberg, scratch it a bit and see what happens. Like what's with the Sewer Rat (by appointment) bit? A couple of days ago some mud got slung at the Biofuel list in a discussion at wastewatts, the yahoo group moderated by Steve Spence, Dir., Green Trust. Stuff like this: It can have a certain view and the some long time members like everyone to march to a similar tune or your read the riot act. The list owner ( Keith ), can not handle the truth, because it hurts to much. ... plenty of people have been banned because they disagreed with certain people on the list, and couldn't back up their disagreement with the proper sources. I would not parrot the bush is the antichrist partyline, and I wouldn't shut up, so I was banned. But keith will swear that it was done in the name of promoting open discussion - how Orwellian. And so on. A person named Chris Stratford started ranting that Keith is a racist and an anti-Semite and a Nazi and got quite violent: ... if I meet them in a dark alley only one of us will walk out... There are a bunch of other biodiesel groups, that actually have open debate... Keith has a great website, but if it was a choice between saving him or the rat from drowning, I will save the rat, and then throw it at him. So this clown at Infopop appoints himself the rat. Well I guess he should know, and he's in the right place too. I'm sure the wastewatts discussion is all over Infopop with the usual huge glee but I didn't bother to check, I never go there unless someone posts a url here. I received the wastewatts posts as a subscriber but I don't read anything there either, someone pointed it out to me. I'd give you the link but dear old Steve in all his openness closed the archives unless you log in as a member. These people at wastewatts got booted from the Biofuel list for demanding that other people's posts they didn't agree with
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: I'm the Decider
Groovy dude!!! Where can I get the t-shirt? D. Mindock wrote: Subject: I'm the Decider Bush said the other day, I am the decider. The following is from dailykos.com. Well, it took me awhile, but I finally realized what I'm the decider reminds me of. It sounds like something a character in a Dr. Seuss book might say. So with apologies to the late Mr. Geisel, here is some idle speculation as to what else such a character might say: I'm the decider. I pick and I choose. I pick among whats. And choose among whos. And as I decide Each particular day The things I decide on All turn out that way. I decided on Freedom For all of Iraq. And now that we have it, I'm not looking back. I decided on tax cuts That just help the wealthy. And Medicare changes That aren't really healthy. And parklands and wetlands Who needs all that stuff? I decided that none Would be more than enough! I decided that schools All in all are the best The less that they teach And the more that they test. I decided those wages You need to get by Are much better spent On some CEO guy. I decided your Wade Which was versing your Roe Is terribly awful And just has to go. I decided that levees Are not really needed. Now when hurricanes come They can come unimpeded. That old Constitution? Well, I have decided Asjust goddam paper It should be derided. I've decided gay marriage Is icky and weird. Above all other things, It's the one to be feared. And Cheney and Rummy And Condi all know That I'm the Decider - They tell me it's so. I'm the Decider So watch what you say Or I may decide To have you whisked away. Or I'll tap your phones. Your e-mail I'll read. `cause I'm the Decider - Like Jesus decreed. Yes, I'm the Decider The finest alive And I'm nuking Iran. Now watch this drive! .. Garret Hinebauch 8th Grade English The American School in London One Waverley Place London NW8 0NP UK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer
See the glycerol separation section at JTF. FFAs (100% pure) rise to the surface. They're not soluble in water. In their pure state they would be be applied in a similar manner as used by county and state road crews to curb weeds along asphalt roadways. Todd Swearingen . Mike Weaver wrote: How do you separate out the FFA's? bob allen wrote: howdy Thomas I am a little surprised that a dilute solution of ffa's would have any impact on plant life over a 24 hour period. My guess is that your solution contains more than ffa's. What is the pH ? how about total dissolved solids, ie salts ? Do you have any idea of the concentration of the ffa (in water I assume)? Thomas Kelly wrote: I've been gardening for over 30 years by essentially building dirt and caring for my plants from the ground up. I've been know to chop off a weed's head now and again or yank them from the ground. I've squished bugs by the thousands and lured others to deadly traps. I've never used a spray that has any real obvious results (dead insects or weeds). I've been splitting my glycerine co-product into FFA's, potassium (and some sodium) phosphate, and crude glycerine. Yesterday I sprayed FFA's on some weeds in an area of the garden that hasn't been turned yet. Today they appear to be dying. It didn't seem to discriminate ... dandelions, wild mustard, plantain, grass all withering. I'm a bit taken back. The sprays I concoct from chives, peppers, mulberry leaves etc. are intended to repel/discourage pests. I don't see any corpses. It's more a matter of faith or delusion that they are working ... I don't care which. Weeds involve physical removal and discouragement with thick mulch. The weeds sprayed w. FFA's appear to be in serious trouble only 24 hrs after spraying. What is the mechanism of FFA action on plants? Does it act on the lipid component of the cell membranes? Is it systemic or just act on the point of contact - the leaves. If it only acts on the leaves, will new shoots be sent up? If FFA's are non-toxic, biodegradable, and effective weed killers, it would be very good news to an aging gardener who turns each section of the garden by hand, meticulously picking out the weeds. I don't mind the turning, countless tons of compost over the years has turned shallow hard-pan clay into beautiful rich soil that takes little effort to turn. It's the bending to pick the weeds that gets to my back. I believe Todd Swearingen and Prof. Bob Allen have both mentioned FFA's as weed killer. My back thanks you, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol?
As my distillation temps rose towards 200F (93C) could I have been including water in my distillate? Yes, and you probably did. This is why they use distillation columns in industry. Zeolytes should work. Just make sure that whatever one you choose is capable of absorbing water. Not all zeolytes are designed for the same capability. While porosity may be the wrong word to define how they're constructed, zeolytes are engineered to absorb specific sized molecules. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Good day to all, After splitting the glycerine coproduct from roughly 1200L of processed WVO, I distilled approximately 100L of the glycerine/methanol component. The first drops of methanol began to fall from the condenser at 145F. As the temp rose to 150F there was a steady flow of clear liquid from the condenser. Throughout the day I turned the heat off when the flow was steady and back on when it slowed. I filled a 4.5 gal (17.7L) cubie with clear liquid and started a second one. At this point the temp was over 160F. I let the still run up to 200F. At this point the second cubie had 4 gallons of clear liquid (and it was now 1AM) giving a total of 8.5 gal. I was thrilled with the result (and tired). I used the first 4.5 gal (17.7L) to run one batch, and while that was settling ran a second batch using the second 4 gal of recovered methanol. The first batch washed OK, but was a little slow to separate. It failed the methanol quality test. The second batch did not even pass the wash test. I have been making consistenly high quality BD for several months ... thank you JtF and list members. I don't think I made mistakes in measurement or titration. My question: As my distillation temps rose towards 200F (93C) could I have been including water in my distillate? (The methanol recovered at lower temps performed better than the methanol recovered at higher temps.) If so, can I use Zeolite molecular sieves in the future to remove it? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/319 - Release Date: 4/19/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] FFA's as Weed Killer
What is the mechanism of FFA action on plants? Suffocation and some burning if in direct sunlight. The consolation about veg oils or FFAs when land applied is that the microbes needed to degrade them are readily present and in high populations, opposed to fossil oils, where the type needed are very small in number in comparison. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: I've been gardening for over 30 years by essentially building dirt and caring for my plants from the ground up. I've been know to chop off a weed's head now and again or yank them from the ground. I've squished bugs by the thousands and lured others to deadly traps. I've never used a spray that has any real obvious results (dead insects or weeds). I've been splitting my glycerine co-product into FFA's, potassium (and some sodium) phosphate, and crude glycerine. Yesterday I sprayed FFA's on some weeds in an area of the garden that hasn't been turned yet. Today they appear to be dying. It didn't seem to discriminate ... dandelions, wild mustard, plantain, grass all withering. I'm a bit taken back. The sprays I concoct from chives, peppers, mulberry leaves etc. are intended to repel/discourage pests. I don't see any corpses. It's more a matter of faith or delusion that they are working ... I don't care which. Weeds involve physical removal and discouragement with thick mulch. The weeds sprayed w. FFA's appear to be in serious trouble only 24 hrs after spraying. What is the mechanism of FFA action on plants? Does it act on the lipid component of the cell membranes? Is it systemic or just act on the point of contact - the leaves. If it only acts on the leaves, will new shoots be sent up? If FFA's are non-toxic, biodegradable, and effective weed killers, it would be very good news to an aging gardener who turns each section of the garden by hand, meticulously picking out the weeds. I don't mind the turning, countless tons of compost over the years has turned shallow hard-pan clay into beautiful rich soil that takes little effort to turn. It's the bending to pick the weeds that gets to my back. I believe Todd Swearingen and Prof. Bob Allen have both mentioned FFA's as weed killer. My back thanks you, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/319 - Release Date: 4/19/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol?
I came across molecular sieves while reading about ethanol purification, and was lead to believe (mistakenly?)that they can be regenerated by drying in the sun. The temp needed can be achieved in a solar oven. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Joe, Thanks for the reply. You wrote: 1. There is a significant energy input into regenerating the seives as well. You have to bake them at well over 100 degrees C more like 200, but you can get by with lower temps if you bake them out with vacuum. I came across molecular sieves while reading about ethanol purification, and was lead to believe (mistakenly?)that they can be regenerated by drying in the sun. Try putting a thermometer in your condenser and monitor vapour temperature to get a better endpoint and you will have an easier time. I don't know what this will tell me. What would I be looking for in terms of vapor temp? 3. I have some excellent references on solvent drying I can mail you if you want. No soft copy sorry but I might be able to scan them. I would appreciate them. I am in the early stages of planning ethanol ferment/distillation. If the permit is approved, I hope to start in the coming months. Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - *From:* Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2006 10:27 AM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol? 3A sieves will work but are normally used for getting tiny amounts of water out of solvents to bring them into the low ppm range. They will work of course but you might saturate them and have to do a second stage. There is a significant energy input into regenerating the seives as well. You have to bake them at well over 100 degrees C more like 200, but you can get by with lower temps if you bake them out with vacuum. Try putting a thermometer in your condenser and monitor vapour temperature to get a better endpoint and you will have an easier time. You have answered some of my own questions. I have recovered some methanol but not tried to use it yet. Sounds like if straight distillation is carefully done the methanol is dry enough to use without further drying. Great news and thanks for the post! :) I have some excellent references on solvent drying I can mail you if you want. No soft copy sorry but I might be able to scan them. Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Good day to all, After splitting the glycerine coproduct from roughly 1200L of processed WVO, I distilled approximately 100L of the glycerine/methanol component. The first drops of methanol began to fall from the condenser at 145F. As the temp rose to 150F there was a steady flow of clear liquid from the condenser. Throughout the day I turned the heat off when the flow was steady and back on when it slowed. I filled a 4.5 gal (17.7L) cubie with clear liquid and started a second one. At this point the temp was over 160F. I let the still run up to 200F. At this point the second cubie had 4 gallons of clear liquid (and it was now 1AM) giving a total of 8.5 gal. I was thrilled with the result (and tired). I used the first 4.5 gal (17.7L) to run one batch, and while that was settling ran a second batch using the second 4 gal of recovered methanol. The first batch washed OK, but was a little slow to separate. It failed the methanol quality test. The second batch did not even pass the wash test. I have been making consistenly high quality BD for several months ... thank you JtF and list members. I don't think I made mistakes in measurement or titration. My question: As my distillation temps rose towards 200F (93C) could I have been including water in my distillate? (The methanol recovered at lower temps performed better than the methanol recovered at higher temps.) If so, can I use Zeolite molecular sieves in the future to remove it? Thanks, Tom ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list
Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol?
You can build a well insulated, e-glass, almost-walk-in, oven for $200. I wouldn't buy one. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Thanks Todd. It must have been 25 years ago that a friend was going to prepare lunch in a solar oven. The idea appealed to me at the time, but on a warm sunny day we watched and waited, and ended up having to fire up the grill. Solar ovens have apparently come a long way since then or you wouldn't be recommending them for regenerating zeolytes. I just Googled Solar Oven. Something about solar cooking still appeals to me, but I remain skeptical. In one part of a web page it says they quickly heat up to 360 -400F. In another part of the same site it says Superior Cooking is due to the slow even rise in temp. It's that slow rise in temp that concerns me. Are you referring to the same solar ovens (under $200 US) that can be used to cook food (and do they really work?) or is there some other, high tech version? Tom - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol? I came across molecular sieves while reading about ethanol purification, and was lead to believe (mistakenly?)that they can be regenerated by drying in the sun. The temp needed can be achieved in a solar oven. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Joe, Thanks for the reply. You wrote: 1. There is a significant energy input into regenerating the seives as well. You have to bake them at well over 100 degrees C more like 200, but you can get by with lower temps if you bake them out with vacuum. I came across molecular sieves while reading about ethanol purification, and was lead to believe (mistakenly?)that they can be regenerated by drying in the sun. Try putting a thermometer in your condenser and monitor vapour temperature to get a better endpoint and you will have an easier time. I don't know what this will tell me. What would I be looking for in terms of vapor temp? 3. I have some excellent references on solvent drying I can mail you if you want. No soft copy sorry but I might be able to scan them. I would appreciate them. I am in the early stages of planning ethanol ferment/distillation. If the permit is approved, I hope to start in the coming months. Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - *From:* Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2006 10:27 AM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Water in recovered methanol? 3A sieves will work but are normally used for getting tiny amounts of water out of solvents to bring them into the low ppm range. They will work of course but you might saturate them and have to do a second stage. There is a significant energy input into regenerating the seives as well. You have to bake them at well over 100 degrees C more like 200, but you can get by with lower temps if you bake them out with vacuum. Try putting a thermometer in your condenser and monitor vapour temperature to get a better endpoint and you will have an easier time. You have answered some of my own questions. I have recovered some methanol but not tried to use it yet. Sounds like if straight distillation is carefully done the methanol is dry enough to use without further drying. Great news and thanks for the post! :) I have some excellent references on solvent drying I can mail you if you want. No soft copy sorry but I might be able to scan them. Joe Thomas Kelly wrote: Good day to all, After splitting the glycerine coproduct from roughly 1200L of processed WVO, I distilled approximately 100L of the glycerine/methanol component. The first drops of methanol began to fall from the condenser at 145F. As the temp rose to 150F there was a steady flow of clear liquid from the condenser. Throughout the day I turned the heat off when the flow was steady and back on when it slowed. I filled a 4.5 gal (17.7L) cubie with clear liquid and started a second one. At this point the temp was over 160F. I let the still run up to 200F. At this point the second cubie had 4 gallons of clear liquid (and it was now 1AM) giving a total of 8.5 gal. I was thrilled with the result (and tired). I used the first 4.5 gal (17.7L) to run one batch, and while that was settling ran a second batch using the second 4 gal of recovered methanol. The first batch washed OK, but was a little slow to separate. It failed the methanol quality test. The second batch did not even pass the wash test. I have been making consistenly high quality BD
Re: [Biofuel] my poor processing
1) if the temp goes up close to 150-155 will this in itself adversely effect the reaction? Yup. And if you're lucky, all you'll have is a mess to clean up. Methanol boils at 145*F. Your reactor contents would froth immediately upon the addition of the methoxide. Explosive fumes would inundate the area. Everything in close proximity could quickly become toast if an ignition source is present, such as an open motor. Suggestion for your problems would be to conduct a proper titration, then do the poor man's titration, with your proper titration sample in the middle. Measure the amount of glyc cocktail that drops out of each. When you identify which two sequential samples have an equivalent amount of glyc cocktail, go with the one that had the slightlye higher amount of caustic. Also, do a wash on each sample and observe the results. Presumption is made that you're using warm water for the wash? You can get a good wash with colder water, just that it's more hassle. After observing your wash samples, you might add 0.2 ml of 85% phosphoric acid to each and agitate again and observe the results. (I think my earlier tries were agitated too much) That's impossible. Todd Swearingen . greg Kelly wrote: From JtF: with a creamy white layer sandwiched between water and biodiesel, it's not quality fuel and your process needs improvement. Either you've used too much catalyst and made soap (better titration), or a poor conversion has left you with half-processed mono- and diglycerides, fuel contaminants that act as emulsifiers (better titration, try more methanol, better agitation, longer processing time, better temperature control), or both too much catalyst and poor conversion. See Emulsions http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html#emulsion. My third batch turned just about the same as the earlier tries: quality test ends up with a thick creamy white third layer. This batch seperated much better, being mostly done in about 15 minutes. I have used virgin oil (soy), what is labeled as 90% KOH (which Keith hadn't heard of until lately) and methanol from a racing fuel station. It is labeled as 100%. I calculated and measured quite carefully, redesigned my reactor vessel, watched the reaction much closer (I think my earlier tries were agitated too much), kept the temperature much closer to a steady 135 f, and ended up with very close results to my first try. My questions of the list are: 1) if the temp goes up close to 150-155 will this in itself adversely effect the reaction? I am using the technique exactly as on JtF, leaving the methoxide bottle hooked up to collect condensate, so little methanol has the chance to escape. But by using a water bath heat source, the temp does stay up there for a few minutes if it gets away from me. 2) Is there a quick and dirty qualitative test for the methanol, to tell me if I am working with something other than 99+ pure stuff? If there isn't an easy test, any guess on what percentage I should add in extra methanol? 3) If I assume the KOH is NOT 90% and instead consider it 85% would the extra 5% endanger the conversion? (if it turns out to really be 90%) 4) Should I reprocess this batch or continue with washing and see what the results are? Thanks in advance, oh wise ones. Greg Kelly ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/319 - Release Date: 4/19/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
No real difference between the two, at least not relative to making fuel. The suggestion would be to use KOH instead of NaOH for starters. That should help end your thickening/soap issue. Don't jump the gun with large batches until you get the small stuff right if you're still having problems. Todd Swearingen leo bunyan wrote: Hi All I have access to a source of animal fat that is used for deep frying I have tried to make biodiesel from it but only succeed in producing a very soapy gloop I used the ratios from Mike Pelly's reciepe Is there a difference between using animal fat and wast veggie oil? Help Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/319 - Release Date: 4/19/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Animal Fat
Stronger caustic agent? As in NaOH vs KOH? You're aware that saturated phats and oils tend to make harder soaps and that NaOH contributes to that end even further? Using the general method of self-mixing the methanol and caustic, as most grassroots and small scale brewers do, there is also the matter of water formation in the methoxide solution. Once mixed it is no longer anhydrous, with the water contributing an even greater propensity towards the formation of soaps. Combining factors such as the greater ratio of saturated glycerides, enhanced soap formation due to the unavoidable presence of water (unless the methoxide is dried with zeolytes or a distillation column prior to use), harder soaps due to the use of NaOH and the common practice of overdosing caustic as insurance by new initiates to biodiesel and the groupies of others who prescribe the method as a guaranteed cure-all, there will be inevitable and needless occurences of failed reactions due to the formation of glop soap. Animal phats do need to be rendered thouroughly to remove as much proteinacious material as possible prior to processing. But the chemical make-up is essentially no different than any other trigyceride, other than the ratio of saturated acids to unsaturated acids. It's the ratio of fatty acids to each other that defines an oil or phat, giving each its general properties. As to lesser glycerol volumes from phats vs oils? The volume doesn't differ, as a triglyceride is a triglyceride, no matter whether it's derived from a vegetable or animal source. What might give the appearance of greater or lesser glycerin is the volume of surrounding soaps that drop out of a transesterification along with the glycerol. This strata is not just glycerol, but a cocktail of numerous products, which seems to be a rather large misunderstanding in the grassroots sector See http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycsep.html Todd Swearingen . Randall Phelps wrote: Animal fat (tallow) has a different chemical make-up than vegetable oil. You need to do much more purification. You get soap (glycerin) like results with vegetable oil, just not as much. I think that if you use a stronger caustic agent to separate mixture components, you may have more success. Randall ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Is newbiodiesel a site reliable?
There is no such thing as secret information relative to manufacturing biodiesel. And only a two minute read of their index page reveals nothing too secret about their efforts. They want your money in exchange for information you can get for free anywhere on the net. Third graders could pull a better flim flam. Grab a cup of tea and sit down for a good, long and in depth read on biodiesel at http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodnew Between the information there and putting the $60.00 towards your grocery bill or credit card, you'll be light years ahead in comparison. Todd Swearingen Yolanda Espinosa wrote: Hi! I am almost new in this mailing list, so I am just introducing myself in this exciting matter of biodiesel. A few minutes before I was looking for some information about biodiesel and I found a page on the net, that claims that they have secrets on biodiesel that almost nobody knows, they say they have secret information that can make you an expert on biodiesel, but I am a litle esceptic about this site, and they ask you for $57.4 dollars in order to give you a super manual and some other documents like an interview. Does anyone ins this mailing list know something about this site, is it reliable or not? The site is: http://www.newbiodiesel.com Thanks, Yolanda ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.4/319 - Release Date: 4/19/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Small oil press
Naw Keith. The purpose of the putting the design up as open source is really to point out how all the co-/waste-products of biodiesel manufacture should be handled for the environment's benefit, rather than just tossing whatever in with a heap of brush or yard clippings as so many do. It's also to point to how simple even industrial scale manufacture is, allowing the mom and pops to no longer be befuddled by the claims of mega-corps that it's beyond their reach. The Northern Tool comparison was just to point out that it wouldn't take much to make Edwin's extruder/expeller as common and inexpensive as a $39.00 water pump,, which would come to a tune of approximately 33 Euros. So people steal things, so what? Thieves are a certainty. But you don't necessarily invite the thief in for dinner. Do you think I should drop another $5,000, have the 833 gallon plan drawn up and signed off by a Process Engineer (PE) and then publish it open source on the web? When and at what level it permissible for free and on the house to stop? That decision is one made at the pleasure of the point source, not the recipient(s). Hopefully the motivations of the point source are honorable and he or she is discerning towards the prospective end user's circumstances and chooses to curb monetary gain somewhat or perhaps totally in lieu of a greater good rather than gold-plated faucets for a sunken, marble, Roman tub. I'm kind of thinking that anyone who's already got a hand-crank extruder down to 100 Euros without manufacturing at any economy of scale as of yet isn't exactly trying to profiteer off the impoverished. But if I understand you right you'd close down the whole operation because you're not getting the $20 from eBay. It's not the occasional, E-bay, quick-buck, sheisters that would bother me. It's those who would take a good idea and profit on it in the larger extreme to the point of being nothing but a mirror image of what you might think (in a worst case scenario) Edwin aspiring to be. If someone's going to produce the unit, my vote goes to the individual who initiated the effort, not the thief in the night. Can't make much sense of the rest, unless you think poverty and hunger exist in isolation without a context. Without? Now how would that be possible? There's this though: 1) It's rather doubtful that those who can't afford a 100 Eu asking price could afford to construct a prototype on their own even if they had the drawings. Todd Swearingen doesn't know how distributed manufacturing works? So if 100 Euros is half of one year's income, placing it out of their reach, how much of their income do you think it's going to cost them to have ones and twos milled by their cousin, if they happen to be lucky enough as to be within 100 kilometers of a lathe? Maybe in lots of 100 by locals who have the mechanisms to manufacture. That type of production scale would help when matched with regional pay scales, rather than introducing EU labor costs into a Micronesia market. But even then, shouldn't the point source have some association/control of his or her own brainchild, even if it's nothing more than a permissal nod of the head to an appropriate manufacturer? There'd been some talk of patenting it instead but Michael didn't agree and put it in the public domain, and I agree with Michael. They get him for a song, but that's not why he does it. Coming to a point of choosing between open source and patent/licensing is a matter of cumulative understanding - eventual comprehension of the balance between one's personal needs and wants (both good and bad) and the needs and wants (both good and bad) of others. Michael has apparently found his balance between self and the needs of and benefit to others. You've done the same where you invest your energies. Me? Hell. I'm just a greedy, anti-social, liberal, left wing hermit who wants to sock money into my pillow cases. I guess not everyone can be a saint. I'm not going to rationalize greed and/or self-interest(s) here, but the outcome of that decision making process is not going to be the same for all people, in all circumstances, and certainly not for all the wrong reasons. But for what it's worth, I think Edwin could come up with a production/distribution scheme that can make the unit more affordable. And personally, I think there are probably a few people on this list who could put him in touch with some of the right people who can do this on a micro-regional scale all over the globe. It is an international list after all, with the mindsets of most of the members being in largely the same place. Other than that? I have just one other thought. If the pretense is that Edwin or anyone is trying to capitalize on others who just don't have sufficient capital, what is to be said of the individual who crushes his or her first gallon of oil on some hillock using this unit (or any other unit, no
Re: [Biofuel] my opinion of Northern Tool
But wasn't he a communist? Communalist, I believe. Somehow the all got dropped out of the concept around the 20th century. Do you make biodiesel out of it? I'll leave it to the chemical engineers, but don't essential oils have high flashpoints? More of an oil that would combust in a diesel engine with no conversion. I know they're trying to do this with oil from orange peel in Belize. Up till recently they were land filling all the peel from their commercial citrus harvest. Oil was leaching out of the landfills, so the government put an end to it. They then tried using it as compost for the citrus crop and ended up sterilizing the trees where it was heaped, at least for a year or two. garlic oil biodiesel Now there's a thought..., for all the blood suckers I know Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Hitchhikers welcome. No pachouli. Communist Jesus would have worn patchouli. Guess he must have been a Dead Head to boot. LOL!!! But wasn't he a communist? He wouldn't have made biodiesel out of it though, stick to the point. Or maybe he would've. Do you make biodiesel out of it? And are you a Dead Head? Well you can wreathe an undeserving world in fumes of patchouli and Jerry Garcia if you so wish, but real he-men listen to Duane Eddy and burn garlic oil biodiesel because they don't care. Keith Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Thanks Keith. Keep on trucking! :-) Right on, Michael. Hitchhikers welcome. No pachouli. Keith (Anybody made biodiesel out of pachouli? Could there be a good use for it after all?) Michael Lendzian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Small oil press
So who is Edwin trying to kid? Maybe, just maybe, he's not entirely aware of how relative the poverty income rate is in various regions. (A point to which you elude later in your reply.) 100 Euros isn't exactly the wealth of Fort Knox ($122 US), although it remains a relative matter. I rather doubt that it would cost any more than a Northern Tool, one inch, clear water pump at some point in time if it were manufactured at scale. That's about 1/3 of the present asking price of 100 Euros. Not exactly the Bloomingdale price of a Tabbypressen. But Edwin wants it for nothing. All right. So what is it of fair exchange that you would seek in return? Isn't it Edwin who's saying Hey brother. What's mine is yours and yours is mine. But since I don't have anything can I have whatever you've got? Not exactly. It's rather apparent that he brings something to the table, having put a fair amount of his own time and effort into the extruder. A Drainbow would sit back and watch while another put forward all their efforts, then swoop in and start to enjoy the fruit before the laborer had even tamped the sweat off his brow. He won't even offer what he does have - the plans. Well? I don't either relative to the 833 gallon plant. People who aren't bright enough to figure out that design shouldn't be making biodiesel in the first place. And people who won't figure it out? A large percentage of them are interested in it from the Drainbow profit motive - let everyone else do the groundwork. Laziness seems to accompany a lot of people looking for profit. So perhaps it's somewhat fair to extrapolate from personal experience why Edwin shouldn't necessarily make detailed drawings open source, at least not until he's comfortable with doing so. 1) It's rather doubtful that those who can't afford a 100 Eu asking price could afford to construct a prototype on their own even if they had the drawings. 2) If the drawings were out there, China-Mart or India-Mart or perhaps Wal-Mart would be the first to manufacture at scale and take full disadvantage of the open source availability. Others do the ground work and they play the role of Drainbow. If they really want to make a buck, let them steal it a little more honestly. If you really want to say the open source doctrine is usually just a drain of energies that leaves a person's wallet thinner Nope. But here can be times when open source is appropriate and others when it may take a while to get there. Edwin raises mushrooms in Holland, a country with little soil to call its own. As it turns out that doesn't matter too much to the Dutch, because it's a rich country. I'm not picking on them, we're all in the same boat, and what the hell I'm about a quarter Dutch myself anyway, I've lived there, I liked it, I'd go back. However, as with all the rich countries, there is an area of land totalling five times the size of Holland scattered about the world among prime growing areas in various 3rd World countries which is devoted exclusively to raising feed for Dutch cattle, at preferential prices for the Dutch, who then use their own soil to push up tulips and stuff, that being more profitable. Pity about all those hungry people who'd be growing food for themselves and their communities on that prime 3rd World land if it weren't for the tulips and so on. Why not set the fair return you say Edwin deserves on his investment against that backdrop and see how fair it really is? *They* owe *him* 100 Euros? Whatchu trying to do Keith? Usurp Barry Commoner's coach seat on the principles bandwagon? Should it be presumed that you managed to point this perspective out to Edwin in the off-list correspondence? Okay. I stuck my two Euros in and just burned up a half-hour of both our time. Well, maybe not incinerated. Revisiting the international practice of trade inequity with that dutchy thought was quite worth the time. As for the extruder? I could easily see it being affordable to the middle to upper end of the First (and only) World right out of the chute, certainly no more expensive than the cheap juicers and blenders found on Mal-Wart's bridle registry. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: All quite true Todd, as far as it goes. But there's a gap between what Edwin says he wants to achieve and what he says his goals are. As he states it, his primary goal isn't to make loadsamoney, it's to benefit very poor people, and why shouldn't he get a return on his investment in the doing? Sounds fair enough at first glance, but it just won't work that way because it'd be crazy to think very poor people could ever afford the price he's charging - about four times the cost of the thing, according to Jason's estimate, probably not far wrong. How many years will it take someone in the rural hinterlands of Burkino Faso to earn 100 Euros? That's the privileged guy, the others live right outside the money economy, and those are the ones
Re: [Biofuel] You were saying?
Nice sarcasm there Bobby. Yeah, the US missed the opportunity to have someone in office that couldn't make a decision if the life and health of the nation depended on it. Would be interesting to see precisely what you base that remark on other than the pablam you've apparently nursed on from clowns such as Limbrain, entertainment programs such as Fox News or web sites such as Swift Boat Vets who wouldn't know truth if it bit them square on both butt cheeks. As if the wrong-thinking of a mentally challenged puppet hiding behind a crown of thorns, whose decisions are set to disembowel clean water and air, efficiency, conservation and alternative fuels, have embroiled all nations, killed untold tens-of-thousands in a wrongfully prosecuted war, brought the country closer to a state of economic collapse, and pandered to the single issue voter instead of the total country he was supposed to serve and protect is a standard to be held in high regard. I'd say something about twisted logic. But the appearance is that logic played no role in your comment. Todd Swearingen Bobby Clark wrote: Yeah, the US missed the opportunity to have someone in office that couldn't make a decision if the life and health of the nation depended on it. I would feel really safe if the democrats had control of the White House... From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] You were saying? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:47:29 -0700 Hakan Falk wrote: US missed an opportunity in the last election, but Bush cannot stay after his period, if he does not also try to pull AH's last trick. I doubt that this can be done in US, nothing is really left other than the hope that next election will be more kind to the world. Are you kidding? We could have Jeb, then Neil, then Marvin, and after them, Jenna and Barbara. We could have a Bush family dynasty for better than 50 years over here! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] You were saying?
Well don't call me brilliant. Now I know what a glaive is where I didn't before - a poor man's week wacker, eh? Todd Swearingen Fred Finch wrote: Todd breaks out the verbal glaive while I grab the nearest thought of a broken beer bottle. Sometimes I swear I still feel like a mental midget here! Damn fine writing! fred On 5/10/06, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice sarcasm there Bobby. Yeah, the US missed the opportunity to have someone in office that couldn't make a decision if the life and health of the nation depended on it. Would be interesting to see precisely what you base that remark on other than the pablam you've apparently nursed on from clowns such as Limbrain, entertainment programs such as Fox News or web sites such as Swift Boat Vets who wouldn't know truth if it bit them square on both butt cheeks. As if the wrong-thinking of a mentally challenged puppet hiding behind a crown of thorns, whose decisions are set to disembowel clean water and air, efficiency, conservation and alternative fuels, have embroiled all nations, killed untold tens-of-thousands in a wrongfully prosecuted war, brought the country closer to a state of economic collapse, and pandered to the single issue voter instead of the total country he was supposed to serve and protect is a standard to be held in high regard. I'd say something about twisted logic. But the appearance is that logic played no role in your comment. Todd Swearingen Bobby Clark wrote: Yeah, the US missed the opportunity to have someone in office that couldn't make a decision if the life and health of the nation depended on it. I would feel really safe if the democrats had control of the White House... From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] You were saying? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:47:29 -0700 Hakan Falk wrote: US missed an opportunity in the last election, but Bush cannot stay after his period, if he does not also try to pull AH's last trick. I doubt that this can be done in US, nothing is really left other than the hope that next election will be more kind to the world. Are you kidding? We could have Jeb, then Neil, then Marvin, and after them, Jenna and Barbara. We could have a Bush family dynasty for better than 50 years over here! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Thoughts on the Bush Admninistation
Bobby, But if you are upset about illegal immigration or the lack of a future for social security, you can't rightfully blame Bush. You don't have a problem with taking a growing surplus (pre-Bush) and turning it into a deficit that will take 30 years to recover from (present Bush) and viewing it as an issue that grew out of but one administration? but sometimes indecision and inaction is very dangerous. And you think that anyone but Bush would have just thrown up their hands and whimpered? What about the possibility that they would have analyzed the facts and come up with a completely different conclusion, therefore a completely different and probably a less destructive response? Better than 75% of the world's population did, the majority of which weren't even Ivy League graduates. Serious reservations -to the point of nearly 100% - exist whether anyone other than Bush would have manipulated non-existant, doubtful and forged data into dire threats of the next time being in the form of a mushroom cloud. Fundamentalist Islam hates America, period. That's a little twisted. More like some fundamentalists hate America. Even then it's not necessarily America or Americans, rather the brain-dead and self-serving tactics used by a nation to subvert anything not to their liking, among which you can include military presence on their soils to preserve self-interests. Uh, such as stability of oil flow under the veil of national security? All inclusive statements that encompass an entire segment of people are usually enormously flawed. Todd Swearingen Bobby Clark wrote: The Bush Administration is not trying to kill you. Sounds like a little paranoia. First of all, I don't think all of the decisions coming out of this administration are wrong; although the media would certainly have you believe so. They really have it out for this president; even to the point of bending the truth and hiding other elements of it. Not to say that this administration has not done the same thing at times, but we've come to expect this in politics, unfortunately. The thing I like about Bush is that he is not afraid to say how he feels and believes. He is not afraid to make a decision. Sometimes indecision is better than making a wrong decision in the eyes of many, but sometimes indecision and inaction is very dangerous. The gripes that you hear coming out of those who are against Bush and this government aren't all problems that this administration created. You can't blame Bush for everything; well, I guess you can but you'd be wrong. Many of the problems the nation faces today have been lingering for 15-20 years or longer. I didn't hear anyone griping about them when Clinton was in office beacuse most people liked Clinton. You see, for a lot of people it is personal. Now if you are against the war in Iraq; then you can blame Bush. If you are upset about rising fuel costs, you can partially blame Bush (which I do, by the way). But if you are upset about illegal immigration or the lack of a future for social security, you can't rightfully blame Bush. These were problems that were there before he ever took office, but I often still hear people blaming him for them. As far as terrorism goes; Bush usn't inciting people anymore than they were already. Fundamentalist Islam hates America, period. Our way of life is against what their religion teaches and it (our way of life) continues to entice many young people out of Islam. 9/11 happened before the war on terror or the war in Iraq (although it seems many forget this fact). They came on our soil and blew up our buidlings. Swift action had to be taken to send a message to terrorists who wold hate America even if Mickey Mouse was president. I don't agree with this administration on everything; in fact, I disagree with it a lot. However, I don't let my personal feelings take me on wild flights of fancy like the governement is completely evil or the government is trying to kill me. It is in those statements that logic is absent. Bobby Clark From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] You were saying? Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:18:11 -0600 On 4/19/06, Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, the US missed the opportunity to have someone in office that couldn't make a decision if the life and health of the nation depended on it. I would feel really safe if the democrats had control of the White House... Well, maybe the democrats couldn't make a decision to save their lives, but that's slightly better than making the wrong decision, which is what the current administration seems to be doing all of the time. I for one would prefer an ineffectual government to a downright evil government that's trying to kill me and the rest of the world. Even forgetting all of the domestic attacks on our
Re: [Biofuel] my opinion of Northern Tool
Hitchhikers welcome. No pachouli. Communist Jesus would have worn patchouli. Guess he must have been a Dead Head to boot. Todd Swearingen Keith Addison wrote: Thanks Keith. Keep on trucking! :-) Right on, Michael. Hitchhikers welcome. No pachouli. Keith (Anybody made biodiesel out of pachouli? Could there be a good use for it after all?) Michael Lendzian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] You were saying?
Make that weed whacker. Appal Energy wrote: Well don't call me brilliant. Now I know what a glaive is where I didn't before - a poor man's week wacker, eh? Todd Swearingen Fred Finch wrote: Todd breaks out the verbal glaive while I grab the nearest thought of a broken beer bottle. Sometimes I swear I still feel like a mental midget here! Damn fine writing! fred On 5/10/06, *Appal Energy* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice sarcasm there Bobby. Yeah, the US missed the opportunity to have someone in office that couldn't make a decision if the life and health of the nation depended on it. Would be interesting to see precisely what you base that remark on other than the pablam you've apparently nursed on from clowns such as Limbrain, entertainment programs such as Fox News or web sites such as Swift Boat Vets who wouldn't know truth if it bit them square on both butt cheeks. As if the wrong-thinking of a mentally challenged puppet hiding behind a crown of thorns, whose decisions are set to disembowel clean water and air, efficiency, conservation and alternative fuels, have embroiled all nations, killed untold tens-of-thousands in a wrongfully prosecuted war, brought the country closer to a state of economic collapse, and pandered to the single issue voter instead of the total country he was supposed to serve and protect is a standard to be held in high regard. I'd say something about twisted logic. But the appearance is that logic played no role in your comment. Todd Swearingen Bobby Clark wrote: Yeah, the US missed the opportunity to have someone in office that couldn't make a decision if the life and health of the nation depended on it. I would feel really safe if the democrats had control of the White House... From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] You were saying? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:47:29 -0700 Hakan Falk wrote: US missed an opportunity in the last election, but Bush cannot stay after his period, if he does not also try to pull AH's last trick. I doubt that this can be done in US, nothing is really left other than the hope that next election will be more kind to the world. Are you kidding? We could have Jeb, then Neil, then Marvin, and after them, Jenna and Barbara. We could have a Bush family dynasty for better than 50 years over here! robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com
Re: [Biofuel] pump position problem
Is there anotherh alternative? Can anytone help? Depends on how your pump is plumbed in. If you can, put a standpipe with a valve in front of the intake on the pump. You can charge (fill) the standpipe with whatever liquid is appropriate for whatever you're trying to pump and use that charge as a pump primer. Todd Swearingen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello. I have a problem with my new processor. I asked the person who was selling it if it was self priming and he responded yes, it could even suck water from 6meters. Ofcourse I didnt believe him, but I hotught that it probabbly could manage 40 cm. Well it cant. And #305; have already mounted above the fluid level. I have to use a vaccum pump to pull the wvo in to the pump :( Is there anotherh alternative? Can anytone help? THank you in advance Teoman Rudtard Kipling is rolling is his grave but William Easterly probably approves of pretty much everything you've said. Michael Redler wrote: I just wanted to chime in here. Keith wrote: It reached a stage here where the list would not have survived unless we'd formulated the rules, which were already there, we didn't just make them up. It's also too common to see a reactionary restriction of expression, screening all posts before distribution (for example). This forum proves that a loose framework is very effective at maintaining individual freedoms while allowing it's membership to participate in maintaining continuity. Kim: I read some of your posts and couldn't help notice the similarities between your views and the ideology driving the White Man's Burden. Maybe it's time to rethink the ideals to which we, in the US, have been indoctrinated. Maybe it's a good time to question the perceived credibility and legacy left behind by people like McCarthy and accept the fact that it's not acceptable to steer the culture, economy and government of another country simply because you feel you're better. You wrote: Our right to determine the direction of our life today is unparalleled in human history. So, Babylon, Ancient Greece, etc. don't count. The Magna Carta was just a piece of paper (if I can borrow an expression from our president). There have been and are, better examples of democracy in human history than the republic we Americans pretend to push on others in the process of building an empire. Do some research on our Constitution and it's origins. It will lead you in a few directions - one of which is toward the Iroquois nation. Ask an Iroquois about their right to determine their life - if you can find one. You talk about the reassignment of land for the greater good but conveniently under emphasize the eradication of those people in the process of fulfilling that illusion. Mike */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hello Kim Greetings, I do believe that many people on this list don't read real well. I think you're relying on it. No doubt a new subject-title and dumping all the evidence helps. The ones who disagree with you read quite well though. The un-keyhole view is of Kim trying to backpedal her way up a pedestal, in defiance of the laws of gravity and pedals. I did say I was in favor of colonizing the stars, not the colonizing that happened in past history and is happening today by the corporate world. Um, sorry, not so. In fact you were also criticised for the colonising the stars bit, and you ignored that too. But for a lot of forbearance you could have got the boot just for that, and much besides. You should read the list rules again. They're there for a reason. It reached a stage here where the list would not have survived unless we'd formulated the rules, which were already there, we didn't just make them up. They had to be put into a form that people could be referred to and told to read and comply with when they joined. If not no list any more long ago already. A major reason for it was to put a stop to this kind of vanishing act that denialists of all stripes like to pull with what they said yesterday. You're not a denialist? But you walk the walk. The rules are all about integrity. Please go and read them. http://snipurl.com/mx7r I do find good in many bad situations. Do I wish that certain changes had come about in a more humane manner, of course. Part of getting over hatred is seeing that even though you hated a situation, some personal good came from it. Hatred is bad for the person who hates, not the person who is hated. Morally and spiritually, indeed so. Practically, well, what will you say, Kim? At least the victims were pure of heart when they got slaughtered so it was a Good Thing for them, they didn't get the chance to pollute their spirits with negative feelings like hatred afterwards? Only a pessimistic person who sees no hope for humanity and knows nothing about history could disagree, eh?
Re: [Biofuel] Creekstone farms
Not really. See http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0420/p02s01-woam.html Jason Katie wrote: Does anyone have any new news on creekstone's fight with the USDA over their testing of beef stock? it just kind of vanished after a while. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mixer or agitator standard
1/2 HP, 1,275 rpm with thermal switch and TEFC rated, accompanied by a 4, SS, prop-type, impeller would be more than adequate.. Setiyadi wrote: Does any one know the standard specs. of an agitator for 100 lt biodiesel reactor and catalyst preparation, please ? - Motor type and specification - type of impeler Thanks Best Regards, Sty ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.2/314 - Release Date: 4/16/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Mixer or agitator standard
I use a big old drill with a homemade paddle Hence the qualifier more than adequate. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: I use a big old drill with a homemade paddle Appal Energy wrote: 1/2 HP, 1,275 rpm with thermal switch and TEFC rated, accompanied by a 4, SS, prop-type, impeller would be more than adequate.. Setiyadi wrote: Does any one know the standard specs. of an agitator for 100 lt biodiesel reactor and catalyst preparation, please ? - Motor type and specification - type of impeler Thanks Best Regards, Sty ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.2/314 - Release Date: 4/16/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Small oil press
Sellout? Someone who wants to take a worthwhile mechanism and make a fair return on his efforts is more probable. Not everyone is into or can afford to live their life by the open source doctrine. Usually doing so just means that the masses drain the majority of your energies, you have an even thinner wallet, less time for yourself then ever before and your creditors pounding even louder at the door. A person deserves a fair return on their energy and it's not unreasonable to seek it. We published a biodiesel plant design in rough form through JTF and two-thirds of the inquiries we get are literally demands for more free information, inclusive of engineered drawings - obviously at our expense. They just don't get it. The design was placed so that people could see what was involved cradle to grave if they were truly interested, not as an invite to bleed more of our time to enhance their money seeking endeavors because they're too damned lazy and selfish to do the follow-up work themselves. Where we come from there are Rainbows and then there are Drainbows. The former is of a cooperative/sharing/community mindset. The latter operates under the principle of Hey brother. What's mine is yours and yours is mine. But since I don't have anything can I have whatever you've got? Gets old real quick And I didn't exactly see anything at his sight or in his letter that leads a person to believe that he's either a profiteer or someone who isn't willing to help others, even if the latter seems to be through the corridors of normal commerce. Todd Swearingen Jason Katie wrote: Sellout. complete and total sellout. this guy doesnt understand our goal does he? im not sure if he is just trying too hard or if he honestly doesnt realize the best way to spread knowledge is open source. investment or no, he has the design, he needs to source the original, then if he wants his money back, he needs to step up RD and make more COMMERCIALLY viable variants that would be overkill or useless for any farmboy like myself. (Disclaimer: This is completely and totally MY opinion, if you don't like it , keep in mind it is mine alone and should not interfere with yours in any way.) --- Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Small oil press Hi all The designer and manufacturer of the Piteba oil press, Edwin Blaak in the Netherlands, wrote to me offlist a week ago, in response to the discussion at the list. I guess somebody pointed him at the messages in archives. I wrote back and said I didn't much agree with him, but I didn't want to discuss it offlist, so I invited him to join the list and we could discuss it all there, where we'd have a much better discussion. I was hoping we might persuade him to open-source the plans for his oil press. But I haven't heard from him again. Since he's replying to a list discussion here, I don't see why I shouldn't forward his response to the list and we can discuss it anyway if we want to. If Edwin reads it at the list archives he can change his mind and join if he has anything to add, or contact me. He doesn't tell us much we don't know, and I think he hasn't addressed the issue of why he hasn't put the plans online. Getting back his investment is one thing, but he doesn't say how he thinks the poor communities he talks of benefiting are to lay their hands on a Piteba oil press if it's to cost 100 Euros. Designs of Appropriate Technology solutions to help empower poor communities should be free online. He could still sell the presses too if he wanted to, eg Joseph Jenkins provides the full text of his Humanure Handbook free online at the same website he sells the hard-copy version. Or have a staggered price, depending who's buying. Some people concentrate on selling to big development agencies who can afford the price and can put the gear to use in poor communities. There are lots of ways. In fact poor rural communities have traditional ways of extracting oil from seeds, they didn't have to wait for the industrial revolution. The idea of an oilseed press as part of a development platform including a diesel motor and power generation is not exactly a new one. For instance, in a different thread at the same time Pannirselvam mentioned this: we have already made the small press , thanks to Keith JTF , so simple to make , now processing coconut , getting good resutls , future the sunflower and also the castor oil I don't think very much of Edwin's case for giving the poorest a future. I'm not persuaded to help him sell his oil press. Here's his email, below. Best Keith Dear Keith, I read your discussion about the Piteba oil press in the forum. I am glad you are so involved and enthusiastic about the idea of a small press. I understand that you have many questions on the press. First let me explain what Piteba is and why I
[Biofuel] Drum Wrench was Re: Help needed.
Drum Wrench: http://www.morsemfgco.com/products/drum-wrenches.htm http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/atd-5271.html Chris Tan wrote: Thanks everyone. I probably need a bung plug wrench which I don't have an idea of. I 'll go research on the net. Thanks, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 5:49 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Help needed. Do you have a bung plug wrench? Chris Tan wrote: Greetings Everyone, Do any of you know just how to safely open a sealed 55gal steel drum full of methanol? It's my first time. Thanks, Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
No, I think this is an excellent case that proves that if there is no violence or the threat of violence then nothing gets accomplished. Ahhh.., the old inside every peaceful marcher is a rock-throwing, window-bashing, car-burning, cop-hating anarchist just itching to get out theory. That's enough chuckles for one night, lest I burst a stitch. I really think you are trying to paint me a color I'm not. Well aren't you painting others a color that they aren't, or at least that you don't know they aren't? I'll get there and have something good to pass onto my daughter Hopefully you'll be painting a less dark, although realistic, picture for her along the way as well. Todd Swearingen Gary L. Green wrote: On 15 Apr 2006, at 03:14, Keith Addison wrote: Okay, let's take this recent chunk then, from Peter Solem: Today on the University of California, Santa Cruz campus, an organized group of student protestors succeded in shutting down the campus job fair until the military recruiters were forced to leave! [snip] Please apply your thinking to this case. Was it useless? Was it just a riot waiting for an excuse to happen? Was it all a waste of time and effort anyway because it didn't make Page 1 in the NYT and FauxTV didn't run a special? It did make coverage, at least on the net. If something is seen it can be a benefit. If it's not seen it can't. I've never said anything different. How many hundreds of similar incidents have happened worldwide this week? I don't know. None? I hope more than that. But it doesn't matter anyway because they didn't make Page 1 or a FauxTV special either so they might as well not have happened for all the good they did, right? No Keith, those are your words and your interpretation, not mine. Do you agree with all that? You should do, it's what you've been saying. Or will you say it's just an exception that proves the rule or some such similarly specious nonsense? No, I think this is an excellent case that proves that if there is no violence or the threat of violence then nothing gets accomplished. To read the above account of what happened, you would think they were all sitting in a circle peacefully singing Kumbaya and We Will Overcome. Such is not the case. Take a look at the pictures on the net. Look at what was really happening. Look at the ANGRY protesters right in the face of the recruiter. Look at the signs saying Fuck You, yes those words exactly. Look at the other negative messages also. Look at the in- your-face actions of these angry people. People acting in an aggressive manner. I read a report that stones were thrown after the recruiters. Is this non-violent protest? Yes. It is. I'm sure this is just the way it happens many times. Please don't read anything that I've said to say that this is bad. It's not. Protest needs to happen. The recruiters were there to seduce young people to become cannon fodder for an illegal action brought on by a fascist US government. I just believe that there is what we are told, and then there is the way things really are. I don't believe the squeaky clean images of Ghandi, MLK or anyone else. We see the protests, we see the speeches, we don't see the back room discussions and deal making. Meanwhile you're sitting there in your pontificator's armchair suitably buttressed with cushions and comfortable assumptions and telling yourself you're part of the solution not the problem eh? Keith, I really think you are trying to paint me a color I'm not. That comment was a bit mean spirited. Am I part of the problem? Yes, in ways I am. I still burn gasoline in my vehicle. I don't have PV on my house nor do I have wind power generators. I do vote and I try and make correct choices but what good does that do I sometimes wonder. A 12 hour work day is the norm for me, most times longer. My free time is taken up with projects that I'm doing with other companies. I live in a house that is a part of a row of houses and there is not much room for planting things though I'm trying to grow some food rather than all the herbs my wife and bro in law have got planted. I'm facing resistance. When I talk about getting a diesel for our next vehicle I meet with resistance. I'd like to build a nice rammed earth / mudbrick/ strawbale earthship house with PV and wind and everything be recyclable and have it be it's own little ecosystem and have a positive impact on the planet but I'm not there yet. I'm still earning my money for retirement and sending my kid to college. I'm doing it in an economy where the local currency is not very valuable. I'm planning for the future, I'm reading all the posts here and I'm gathering info from the website. I'll get there and have something good to pass onto my daughter or sell to someone else interested in being
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Gary, It sure would be appreciated if you would substantiate some of your claims. You imply in an almost sweeping manner that the marchers are the ones who provoke and instigate riotous behavior. Seems as if you're almost oblivious to the provocative actions of constabularies and misfits of opposing belief/opinion or just downright agitators who are there for no other reason than to provoke violence for violence sake. Just because agitators generate violence in what starts out and is intended to end as a peaceful protest is not sufficient reason to call it something else. It's not the protest that's violent, it's generally the response. As for declaring that peaceful protest is not effective gives the implication that only violent protest is. And words such as iron fist inside silk glove imply that persons such as King or marchers in general are the ones out to provoke - that the intent is there before the first shoe lace was tied that morning. This isn't a matter of stomping on anyone, much less anyone's heroes. This is nonsense and propagandizing of the highest order. It's almost starting to come across as if your politics are of a firm proponent of installing designated protest areas, replete with 10' tall fences lined with razor wire, three miles away from where a protest might be effectlively conducted. Something tells me that as a police chief, Mr. Green, that you might all too readily forget the freedoms that are accorded to citizens in some countries, even to the point of helping to instigate and/or elevate problems that need neither occur nor get out of hand. Such a hand is what proves to be the iron hand - usually a hand found at a high vantage point, orchestrating pointed strikes/arrests. God help the bystander or pedestrian or someone not smoking a hand made instead of a tailor made on such a day, because that's how little it takes to get your skull caved in. Todd Swearingen Gary L. Green wrote: Okay, let's take this in chunks. Yes, there is peaceful protest but how effective is it really? It's not. It doesn't get much media coverage and gets ignored or forgotten if it is reported. People Power in the PI? Again the threat of violence was there, there were isolated incidents if I remember correctly. Where MLK went there were often riots, big or small okay, small riot is an oxymoron but you get the idea. MLK spoke constantly of non-violence but there were the agitators in the back that kept things on edge. Did MLK secretly coordinate with them? Who knows. All I'm saying here is without the iron fist inside the silk glove you won't be taken seriously. Sorry if it appears I'm stomping on one of your heros but I see very few people as saints be they good or bad. Politics are everywhere no matter what your agenda be it for good or bad. Someone once said that if you were not into politics, you will be done in by politics. On 14 Apr 2006, at 10:20, Keith Addison wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did. That's why he had to be killed. And so that proves your point, there's no such thing as peaceful protest, it's just a sham? Why not answer the rest of the question Gary? It went like this: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 - Release Date: 4/9/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Gary Green, All I can say is that you're one twisted puppy, or at least you're dedicated to that direction. A peaceful march that gets dogs, battans and boots set upon them is not something that can be honestly be blamed as causal. But you choose to do so, decidedly noting that the bee was already in their bonnet, almost implying that it's their fault for just being their. Or is it for just being? And unrest? You're labeling that as riotous behavior? Disatisfaction is grounds for stitches, casts and steel skull plates? You miss all the colors in the spectrum save for the two ends. And even then you try to paint both black and white in some perverse distortion of gray. Relative to Martin Luther King? I didn't say he should die. No. You said That's why he had to be killed. As in necessary, mandatory, no option. And as for your exactly? Don't get carried away with yourself, thinking that you can snip and twist what I've written so that it appears to be in accord with your peculiar beliefs. When I wrote Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't cotton too well towards the idea of peace. I meant it literally. Doubtful that even your well-honed mind would sit their calmly with a trained police dog munching and shredding your leg while Billy and Joe Bob smash everything in swinging distance of a battan, inclusive of your spine. My bet is that you take great joy in this little game your playing, a useless drain on other people's time and almost a complete waste, other than exposing how singular your focus is, or that it's just chain jerking that you're about. Todd Swearingen Gary L. Green wrote: On 14 Apr 2006, at 11:05, Appal Energy wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. Violence at who's initiation? snip Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't cotton too well towards the idea of peace. Exactly. I'm saying he didn't lead a band of trained peace protesters, there were those but not all. The majority were regular folk, of whatever race, that were pissed that things were the way they were and if they didn't see things progressing they were prone to display their displeasure. When I read about MLK, I also read about unrest. That's why he had to be killed. Excuse me? Advocating equality is justification for murder? Let me guess..., I misunderstand what you wrote. Todd Swearingen Maybe. He was a proponent for change, for equality. In the great scheme of U.S. empire building that comes contrary to profit. I'm saying the same people that had Kennedy killed had MLK killed. Justified? I never said that. I didn't say he should die. I said that the powers that be were not about to leave him alive. Gary ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [SPAM] Re: BYU professor's group accuses U.S.officialsoflyingabout 9/11
Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. Violence at who's initiation? You mean to tell me those poor, backward, racist, white boys don't know how to behave and can't control themselves, so everyone else is supposed to conform to their ignorance? Everyone can have peace at their pleasure or not at all? Something about having a foot in the middle of your back just doesn't cotton too well towards the idea of peace. That's why he had to be killed. Excuse me? Advocating equality is justification for murder? Let me guess..., I misunderstand what you wrote. Todd Swearingen Gary L. Green wrote: Whenever MLK came to town you knew you either gave him what he wanted or you would have violence on your hands. The man was not a saint but he was very good at what he did. That's why he had to be killed. On 14Apr, 2006, at 4:41 AM, Keith Addison wrote: Peaceful Protest always had the promise of riots behind it. I don't think so. I ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 - Release Date: 4/9/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] The VW Rabbit is back.
http://news.com.com/Photos+NY+Auto+Show+pulls+a+Rabbit+from+its+hat/2300-11389_3-6060841.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Re: [DCBiodieselcoop] Police Check Point - fuel dye test.]
What does this mean for homebrewers? Not much. They're testing for the red dye found in off-road diesel. Common practice. They won't be sending any other info, requests or edicts to the driver who was stopped. And the day they start making drivers carry current receipts for the fuel in their tank to ensure that the taxes were paid is probably about the time your national military adopts the goose step for its parade marches. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: What does this mean for homebrewers? On 4/12/06, *Eric Youngdale* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I got this in my inbox this morning from someone I work with. He was on Rt 17 between US 50 and I66. I had an interesting stop at a police checkpoint this morning…the real gun carrying kind too! The signs read safety check as I approached it. All of the work trucks were being pulled over. They have these 4-5 times per year but I never knew why until today. Today the officer asked me if my car was a diesel. I told him it was so he asked me to follow the trucks for a fuel dye test. When I reached the next officer he told me that they were checking for farm fuel to make sure it was properly taxed. I started to get a little nervous because I am running B5 (although I buy it at a gas station where I hope they are properly taxing me). The next officer asked me if I would give them permission to check my fuel which I did. She asked me for my drivers' license and another officer stuck a long skinny plastic tube down in my fuel tank and took a sample. Once that was done they sent me on my way. I guess they will do the test somewhere else and let me know what they found. The trucks were getting weighed and stuff but that was not necessary for me. Anyway Eric make sure your paying your taxes on your biodiesel. I think they are going to send me some paper work and I'll let you know what is says when I get it. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group DCBiodieselcoop http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DCBiodieselcoop on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ . ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: Re: [DCBiodieselcoop] Police Check Point - fuel dye test.]
It's not the taxation on fuel that's the problem. It's the hidden taxation that gives the illusion of cheap fuel at the pump that is. Todd Swearingen Michael Redler wrote: And the day they start making drivers carry current receipts for the fuel in their tank to ensure that the taxes were paid is probably about the time your national military adopts the goose step for its parade marches. Well done Todd! I would add that it's also that time that we let the games begin. Government taxation on fuel has an Achilles heal - the number of home-brew energy schemes. They would spend more money keeping up with changes and developments then could be collected in tax revenue and (IMO) chase their tails to the point that they make fools of themselves. The bureaucracy of government has never been able to keep up with the innovative individual. They can (at best) legitimize their actions by criminalizing the rebel. Mike */Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: What does this mean for homebrewers? Not much. They're testing for the red dye found in off-road diesel. Common practice. They won't be sending any other info, requests or edicts to the driver who was stopped. And the day they start making drivers carry current receipts for the fuel in their tank to ensure that the taxes were paid is probably about the time your national military adopts the goose step for its parade marches. Todd Swearingen Mike Weaver wrote: What does this mean for homebrewers? On 4/12/06, *Eric Youngdale* wrote: I got this in my inbox this morning from someone I work with. He was on Rt 17 between US 50 and I66. I had an interesting stop at a police checkpoint this morning…the real gun carrying kind too! The signs read safety check as I approached it. All of the work trucks were being pulled over. They have these 4-5 times per year but I never knew why until today. Today the officer asked me if my car was a diesel. I told him it was so he asked me to follow the trucks for a fuel dye test. When I reached the next officer he told me that they were checking for farm fuel to make sure it was properly taxed. I started to get a little nervous because I am running B5 (although I buy it at a gas station where I hope they are properly taxing me). The next officer asked me if I would give them permission to check my fuel which I did. She asked me for my drivers' license and another officer stuck a long skinny plastic tube down in my fuel tank and took a sample. Once that was done they sent me on my way. I guess they will do the test somewhere else and let me know what they found. The trucks were getting weighed and stuff but that was not necessary for me. Anyway Eric make sure your paying your taxes on your biodiesel. I think they are going to send me some paper work and I'll let you know what is says when I get it. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.0/306 - Release Date: 4/9/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine
Thomas, If you use one of those 1,000,000 candlepower flashlights and shine it through the HDPE container, you should be able to see the separation easily enough as well as the initial curdling.. As for putting the potassium phosphate on the compost pile? The better method would be to dissolve it in water and apply it wet on the garden, not much different than one would apply Miracle Gro or something similar. The dissolving method also allows any trapped FFAs in the precipitate layer to float up, which allows you to not put any oils back into the soil. I don't know the application rate for potassium phosphate, although I've asked a half-dozen people. We've got a waste water treatment specialist working with the effluent from washing along with the glycerol and potassium phosphate to determine how much can be distrubuted over soils and not create an accumulation/burn problem. When we get that isolated we'll post it. Todd Swearingen Thomas Kelly wrote: Todd, I appreciate your response. I think you hit the nail on the head when you 1. suggested that I added too much acid 2. questioned how long I waited I added 1L 85%H3PO4 to each of 12 cubies. The next morning I did not see separation, nor did I see the mineral precip on the bottom. I then added more acid to two of the cubies, got separation, but also that middle layer of very fine salt (much too much acid). I should have waited longer. The other 10 cubies (36 hours later) all have a sand-like precipitate on the bottom. Separation of Glycerine and FFA is not apparent. I'm an idiot! You cannot perceive the separation within the cubie. I stirred the content of two of the cubies and removed samples. They are in glass jars on the windowsill. Within minutes separation became noticable. You also wrote: You should see a near instantaneous curdling, which after some additional mixing gets broken down to sand like granules. The top layer of FFAs should be completely separated within an hour or two, giving the appearance of only two layers. Within a few hours the glycerol layer should start to become apparent. But the settling may not be largely complete for a dozen hours. I am using a paint stirrer on a drill to mix the acid w. the Glycerine cocktail for about a minute. I don't notice any change while mixing. Should I continue to mix until I see a change? Thanks for your suggestion re: saving the excess acid. I still have plenty of Glycerine coproduct (another 12 cubies) and will experiment. With the still finally completed, I'm a bit anxious to try to recover the methanol. Robert and Keith have brought the joy back to gardening ... it somehow got distorted into work last year. I'm anxious to spray the potassium phosphate on the new compost pile I'm building. Patience is indeed a virtue at this point. Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine Thomas, You shouldn't need but between 1.5 and 1.75 gallons of 85% phosphoric for every 50 gallons of glyc cocktail that is derived from 1.5 gram titrated oil. That would work out to be approximately 0.135 to 0.157 gallons per cube, or 510 to 595 mililiters per cube. I guess the question is how long are you allowing for the settling/phase-splitting process to occur and what is the physical appearance of the process as you mix? You should see a near instantaneous curdling, which after some additional mixing gets broken down to sand like granules. The top layer of FFAs should be completely separated within an hour or two, giving the appearance of only two layers. Within a few hours the glycerol layer should start to become apparent. But the settling may not be largely complete for a dozen hours. The general problem with FFA recovery is over-acidification. This can create a strata between the oil and glycerol/methanol layer that contains fines of the salt that won't precipitate out. We've toyed with that strata when it occasionally appears, trying different methods to get it to precipitate, inclusive of further acidifying it. This generally only exacerbates the problem, creating the a liquid bottom layer, a center layer with suspended fines, and the FFA layer on top. My bet is that you're hyper-dosing your glycerine cocktail. The first thing to do is to apply patience and do a series of bracket tests using considerably less acid and a generous time for the settling to take place. I'll leave the precise chemistry to the chemists. It has much to do with the water content of the acid, the water solubility of the precipitate and probably a dozen other factors such as polarity, specific gravities and just downright nastiness of chemicals that don't want to play well with each other in the wrong ratios. If you want to further some
Re: [Biofuel] Loose Change -- new video sheds new light on 9/11
copy the url proper (not the entire hotlink) and paste it into your browser. Todd Swearingen Bob Carr wrote: Hi just went to check this movie out and got a warning that it could be a fraud attempt. Could this be the big brother intervention that other threads have warned about? I wonder? Bob - Original Message - *From:* D. Mindock mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Undisclosed-Recipient:; mailto:Undisclosed-Recipient:; *Sent:* Tuesday, April 11, 2006 2:09 PM *Subject:* [Biofuel] Loose Change -- new video sheds new light on 9/11 The video brings up new info that I've not seen before. The video makers did do a lot of work to pull a lot sources together. The 9/11 tradgedy was, in spite of all the effort by the gov, a bungled job. It doesn't stand up to intelligent scrutiny. Now it is our job to get the disgusting thugs out of office and into prison. They (Bush/Cheney/et. al.) ARE the real enemy combatants. Peace, D. Mindock Dear friends, As one who has worked as a language interpreter for presidents http://t.ymlp.com/hhhatauuaiaweaxamwu/click.php and other dignitaries at the highest levels of government, I am deeply committed to strengthening democracy and to building a brighter future for all of us. I and many others in the research network in which I am involved have found that *a key difficulty we face in building a better world is the resistance of many people to looking at some of the darker aspects of what is going both in the world and inside of ourselves.* I invite you to consider that by avoiding or suppressing the darker aspects of life, we only give them room to grow even darker and more threatening. By choosing to pull back the veil and look directly into the darkness, by choosing to face both our individual and collective fears and working to transform them, we can improve not only our own lives, but our entire world. I present the information below out of a desire to invite all of us draw back the veils and awaken to the deeper potential that lies within all of us to play an important role in transforming our world into a more caring, supportive place to live. *If you can give just a few minutes of your time, I invite you to open to a crucial piece of what is going on behind the veil by watching the most empowering documentary on 9/11 that I've ever seen. Titled Loose Change, this highly revealing film is available free on Google Video at the link below.* If you have limited time, I cannot recommend highly enough going straight to the link now and watching at least 10 to 15 minutes of this highly revealing documentary. The reliable information provided serves as a wake-up call for us all to come together in building a better world. *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from t.ymlp.com claiming to be* http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848 http://t.ymlp.com/hhjakauuaiaweatamwu/click.php - Loose Change (82 minutes) Though it ranks as far and above the best documentary on 9/11 I've seen, Loose Change is not enjoyable to watch. Many people find their stomach turning and their mind saying is this true or how can this be? The documentary is meant to be disturbing, yet it is equally designed to inspire us to action. Once we open to seeing the darkness by educating ourselves, we begin to take power back into our own hands both individually and collectively, and can then work together to create more balance and harmony in our world. snip With gratitude and very best wishes, Fred Burks for the *MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from t.ymlp.com claiming to be* WantToKnow.info Team http://t.ymlp.com/hqmanauuanaweaxamwu/click.php Former language interpreter http://t.ymlp.com/hhhatauuaiaweaxamwu/click.php for Presidents Bush and Clinton ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: [IP] Is the US preparing to bomb Iran?]
According to our Commander in Thief., e hehhh he, I mean Chief, It's all wild speculation. He used those words today when referring to the article that ran some renowned rag this weekend. Oddly enough, wild speculation doesn't mean something isn't true. A lot of people have made their fortunes speculating. In a couple of months we'll probably see wild speculation going down in the annals of history, right beside weapons of mass destruction. Let's hope not. Todd Swearingen Debra wrote: from: Deborah Howard (I'm on the list) I've been reading all the messages and thought I would comment on this one. I'm a massage therapist at the biggest casino in the world consequently I see people all over the world on a regular basis. A few weeks ago I was in conversation with a woman in our army. I asked if she had ever been to Egypt, and she looked up and asked me if I knew something. She said she had already served over a year in Iraq and was home when she received a standby notice that she may be sent into Egypt. I wondered what that was all about. Any thing to do with Iran? - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:13 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [Fwd: [IP] Is the US preparing to bomb Iran?] I've been posting stuff on this here for months, so have a few others, very few people have taken any notice. It is utterly unbelievable that Americans, only now so belatedly waking up with growing fury at how they were lied to and manipulated on the road to the Iraq debacle are actually swallowing the exact same set of lies and manipulations in order to do the same or worse in Iran. What the hell is the matter with you people??? What are you going to do about it? Vote??? Good God, WAKE UP!!! Stop it happening! Now! Damn, thank heavens for Seymour Hersh. Hopefully you say Mike: Let's all pray that reason and sanity prevail once again. Best wishes for world peace, With all due respect it'll take a little more than hopes prayers and wishes. Do it! Put a stop to your mad dogs. Keith Hakan, Agreed. The sh-t would hit the fan. Hopefully enough reason and sanity will eventually prevail like it did during the cold war (we survived it somehow). Of course it may have been MAD (a form of insanity called Mutually Assured Destruction, the idea that no one wins, except by not fighting or starting a nuclear war), that actually saved us during the cold war. What I find to be so ludicrous (silly, ridiculous) is that if IRAN really wanted to Nuke Israel or the USA they would not need a real nuclear weapon, and they would have done it already with a dirty nuclear weapon since they already have nuclear power plants with uranium. I suspect they have not done so, even if they wanted to, because they know if they did the US or Israel would level Iran in retaliation, probably with nukes. The really scary part, I fear, is that even if the US does back down, Israel will still not allow Iran to make nuclear bombs and therefore will not back down. So, anyway you look at it, if Iran does not back off on the nuclear issue we will all be in deep sh-t. What also concerns me is that if the US attacks Iran, North Korea will probably freak out and go nuts since they would believe they were next. I have heard no mention of this yet in the news. Let's all pray that reason and sanity prevail once again. Best wishes for world peace, Mike McGinness Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, As a foreigner and hearing Bush preparing for attacks on Iran, I sometimes have a very short moment of wishing him doing it, because it would be so stupid and probably finish him. Then I think about my American friends with my positive experiences from US and wish strongly that he would be stopped. If US attack Iran, then we would rapidly understand what the expression the sh-t hits the fan means. The global consequences for US would be enormously negative. Hakan At 06:16 09/04/2006, you wrote: Reading the article discussed below is just plain scary as hell. If it's true we need to contact our congresspersons and senators and tell them how we feel so that they can put a stop to this madness now before it is too late. Since there is an election coming up in November, something tells me if they hear from enough of us now they will take decisive action. Mike McGinness Marty Phee wrote: Original Message Subject:[IP] Is the US preparing to bomb Iran? Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 15:43:42 -0400 From: David Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ip@v2.listbox.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Begin forwarded message: From: Tim Finin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: April 8, 2006 3:40:18 PM EDT To: Dave Farber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Is the US preparing to bomb Iran? Seymour Hersh has a 6000 work
Re: [Biofuel] sulphuric acids
It should. Hopefully the other 7% is only water. Worth a try. Todd Swearingen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in the foolproof method, as defined on the JTF web site, it is stated to use 95% sulphuric acid. This is hard to get these days for an individual and somewhat costly. however there is an old fashioned drain cleaner whose MSDS reports is 93% sulphuric acid. oddly enough anybody can buy gallons with no problem. Does anybody know if this slightly less percentage will work? r. Allison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sulphuric acids
Forgot. You'll definitely want to pull off the liquid phase that settles out of the esterification if using such an acid purity. You wouldn't be sending much water over to the base side. But why include that variable if you can avoid it? Todd Swearingen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in the foolproof method, as defined on the JTF web site, it is stated to use 95% sulphuric acid. This is hard to get these days for an individual and somewhat costly. however there is an old fashioned drain cleaner whose MSDS reports is 93% sulphuric acid. oddly enough anybody can buy gallons with no problem. Does anybody know if this slightly less percentage will work? r. Allison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] storing biodiesel in veggie oil 55g drums
If you're really picky/concerned, rinse the drum out with a half-gallon of biodiesel. Take the oil/biodiesel rinse from all fourteen drums and mix that in with your last batch of oil to be turned into biodiesel. Or don't. Your engine won't notice any difference between straight bio and bio contaminated with a little oil. Todd Swearingen james demer wrote: I recently scored 14 (!!!) 55g drums of new canola oil for free. I am processing it into biodiesel and I'm running out of storage. Can I put biodiesel back into a 55g drum that housed new canola oil? I emptied the drums pretty well but there is still probably a pint to a quart of oil in the bottom of the drum. I'm just concerned that the oil will contaminate the bio-d. What do you smart people think? Thanks, James ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
