Re: [biofuel] BD SPECIFIC GRAVITY

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: FARMFEED [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: BIOFUEL USERGROUP biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 1:41 PM
Subject: [biofuel] BD SPECIFIC GRAVITY


 Have any of you come across the Duvalco Diesel filter?
Peter haven't come across the Duvalco but have just had injector pump
reconditioned (couple of broken springs) and decided to improve filtration.
Fitted a Lucas/CAV unit with clear bowl at bottom. It uses a delphi 296
filter ( 2 micron) sandwhiched between the body and sediment bowl.
Replacement filter cartridges are reasonably priced and also available in 10
micron and larger.
Even though the standard filter (Hilux 2L engine) was catching the gunk
scoured from the tank by the BD the priming pump is situated on the inlet
side of the filter and its valves became clogged with gunk. The new filter
is plumbed in before the standard filter. Could have used it in place of std
filter but the primer pump is handy to have.
The rotary pump on this vehicle is very good at self priming but I prefere
to use the hand pump.

 It is apparently a very simple filter that works on the fact that water
and diesel have different specific gravities and hence is able to separate
them out.  I wondered if it could have applications for separating BD and
also ethanol or methanol from water.

 The manufacturer tells me that diesel has a SG of 0.87 compared with 1.0
for water.  So any product with a SG of less than 0.87 will be separated out
by the Duvalco filter.

 Can anyone help me with the SG of ethanol and methanol?  How far different
is the SG of BD from that of fossil diesel?

Ethanol, SG 0.789
Methanol, SG 0.793
BD.  (Various standards) 0.85 to 0.90.
My batches have ranged from  0.8685 to 0.8801, depending upon feedstock and
processing technique.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.



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Re: [biofuel] Huge Hydrogen Stores Found Below Earth's Crust

[Paul Gobert]

Thanks Ro onya!

- Original Message -
From: Joe Giacomini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Huge Hydrogen Stores Found Below Earth's Crust


 Not yet I will try some more experiments in the future.  I need a more
 controlled environment.  I am using a non heated building where the
 control sample also displayed some separation.  Sorry for the delayed
 response all the ranting and raving turned me off to wading through the
 emails.

 Mike Frieders wrote:

   Perhaps we could get back to the subject of bio-diesel.  Someone was
  experimenting with electricity in seperating out the glycerin.  Did
  you have any
  luck?  What about temperature, will cold for example cause the
  glycerin to
  seperate out of solution?  Does glycerin freeze before BD or the other
  way
  around?
 
 
 
  Steven-Lee Craig wrote:
 
   Harmon,
  
   Sounds like you have really studied. In fact if you know as much
  about
   religion as you say, I would say you are an expert on the subject.
  Too bad
   you didn't realize that study of religion is as a potent poison as
  one can
   ingest. After all, look what conclusion you came to. You dumped the
  only
   true purpose for an existence on this planet. Too much study of
  religion
   equals, No faith. No future.
  
   I listened to a guy the other day that told me he learned more from
  the
   Buddhists and Hindus than from any Christian teaching. I am sure of
  one
   thing, and that is that he will learn more at his death than he ever
  learned
   from the Buddhists, Hindus, or the Christians. But by then it will
  be too
   late to act on it!!!
  
   Steven-Lee Craig
  
   Radio Free Huron serving Huron county 24 hours a day at 100.1 FM
  
   WWW.RADIOFREEHURON.COM
  
   As a former christian, and fundamentalist at that, I have to say as
  far as
I'm concerned, christianity is a deception. And as I pointed out
  before, I
   have
a degree in religious studies with an emphasis in biblical
  literature, and
before I went back to school had studied both the bible and church
  history
intensively for years. I know for a fact that I know more about
  the bible
   and
church history than *any* preacher I ever met -- and I know
  plenty.
   The church is directly to blame for a great many of our current
 
   problems,
environmental, social, and political, and has been since it's
  inception
   when
they ripped off the messiah of Israel and perverted it into
  something it
   was
not. The Inquistion was official church policy, they torturing and
  burning
   of
thousands upon thousands of women in Europe was official church
  policy.
   The
genocide of Native Americans, the enslavement of Africans, was
  made a part
   of
church doctrine. The current War On Some Drugs (which accounts for
  75% of
   our
prison population) is pure religious persecution brought about by
  the
   church.
The epitome of christian political policy in Amerika today is the
  most
   evil man
in Amerika today, John Asscruft -- just look at his face, listen
  to his
   voice,
it's like Nazi Germany all over again.
   Nazism is something else I've studied pretty intensely, and is
  one of
   the
reasons I find the current regime so frightening. Adolph Hitler
  once said:
Those who think National Socialism is a polical party know
  nothing about
   it. It
is a religion, and the SS are the high priests. Hitler himself
  was not a
   great
intellect, nor had he much personal power, he was a medium, a
  puppet, for
   the
masters behind him who groomed him, educated him, and set him in
  place.
There are great parallels between him and that evil little
  retard,
   George
W. Bush.
Harmon Seaver
   CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com
  
  
   Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
   http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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Re: [biofuel] murky

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[snip]

Anyway, I don«t
 quite understand how filtering removes cloudiness that comes from liquid
 particles (either water or glycerides).

Christian, the material that my filtration removes is more of a white soapy
mature than water or glycerides. It looks much the same colour as clean
white tallow but it is more uniform in consistency and does not set at room
temp.

My reaction times were, I admit it,
 perhaps too short. I mixed four independent 1 liter batches, and they were
 each left to react for about 30 to 40 minutes. The reaction seemed
 complete after 10 minutes or so, and I thought 30-40 min would do.

In light of what Todd and others have reported I have extended my mixing
times.
This may improve the clarity of the BD but I think my use of conc aqueous
NaOH is a contributing factor.
Strangely enough results from a test using varying levels of NaOH, with a
fixed level of methanol on the same feedstock, gave clearer  unwashed BD for
higher levels of NaOH than optimum (titration) or low levels. Viscosity and
SG were also lower for high levels of NaOH. These tests bear repeating as
the mixing was of short duration. I suspect that optimum mixing would level
out the differences.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] murky

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 1:28 PM
Subject: [biofuel] murky


  Does filtering remove the cloudiness?

Usually works wonders, needs to be fairly fine filter medium though. For
example a disposable plastic inline fuel filter will pass cloudy BD. A 11
micron filter paper (Whatman No. 1) produces crystal clear BD from the same
murky BD.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] (Biodiesel) Black Oil.

[Paul Gobert]

Friend of mine operates what he calls The Worlds Longest Vegetable Run.
He carts fresh fruit and vegetables from the Atherton Tableland, west of
Cairns,Queensland,Australia across to Normanton in the Gulf of Carpentaria.
He heard that I was making BD and began collecting WVO and WAF for me on his
return runs.
Included in the different brands he picks up are drums of ETA Reward,
Longlife Deep frying Oil. This oil is very dark in colour and quite thick.
Strangely enough the drums contain only oil, there is no solid beef tallow
present. All other waste oils I have used have contained quite a bit of
tallow in the drum. (Results from the habit of using chips which have been
precooked in beef tallow). The oil titrated at 9.0 ml so it was well used.
It processed true to titration giving a very dark BD.There should have been
tallow present so I guessed that for some reason the tallow was soluble in
the Reward.
Tested this out by heating this well used oil and adding melted beef tallow
to it.
Used 20ml samples of the oil and added from 1ml up to 17.5ml to a range of
samples.
All samples gave a clear solution, which was stable on cooling to room temp,
ie no tallow dropout.
The 20ml +17.5ml sample was pretty thick but still a uniform liquid.
Contacted Goodman Fielder (the manufacturer) and spoke to the Chief Chemist.
He informed me that Reward is based on Canola Oil. During processing the oil
is hydrogenated. This process is used to produce solid cooking oil from
VO.
Hydrogenation produces saturated oil. In the case of Reward either the
process is stopped before a solid is formed or the canola may not
hydrogenate to a solid.
The chemist was unaware that Reward dissolved Beef Tallow.
I guess it is a case of like dissolving like. The tallow would be saturated
fats and the Reward would have a high degree of saturation.
The drum states, Fats  100%,  Saturated Fat 20%, Monounsaturated 35%,
Polyunsaturated 0%  ( about 45% not mentioned here).

In light of Rewards tendency to dissolve beef tallow, would this be useful
in SVO applications?  The oil/tallow mix would stay liquid in the tank as it
cooled.

Regards,  Paul Gobert.



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Re: [biofuel] NaOH moisture protection

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Pennington [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[snip]

 I guess my worry is that it will absorb
 significant amounts of water vapor while I'm measuring it for the
 methoxide.

Jonathan, I'm from Tropical North Queensland Oz where the humidity seldom
dips below 90%. Weighing out reagent grade pellets sees a slick of moisture
develope on them. Have a 10kg pail of NaOH  for BD production which is
almost empty.
NaOH is in form of pearls, no problem with moisture absorption.
Just be quick with your weighing, leaving your bulk supply exposed to the
moist air for as short a time as possible. Could help to mark up your
weighing vessel to approx weights so as to speed the process.
Suspect that these pearls might have a thin coating of wax or something to
protect them from moist air.

Regards,  Paul Gobert.

 -J

 * Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] [020421 09:48]:
  Have you tried putting it in a sealed container?
 
   Has anyone tried storing lye in oil to prevent it from absorbing
   moisture?

 --
 Jonathan Pennington | [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 It's hard to take life too seriously
 when you realize yours is a joke. -original


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Re: [biofuel] Huge Hydrogen Stores Found Below Earth's Crust

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Huge Hydrogen Stores Found Below Earth's Crust


Well said Harmon, I don't have your wealth of knowledge on this subject but
I certainly agree with you.
Another reformed christian.
Paul Gobert.

As a former christian, and fundamentalist at that, I have to say as far
as
 I'm concerned, christianity is a deception. And as I pointed out before, I
have
 a degree in religious studies with an emphasis in biblical literature, and
 before I went back to school had studied both the bible and church history
 intensively for years. I know for a fact that I know more about the bible
and
 church history than *any* preacher I ever met -- and I know plenty.
The church is directly to blame for a great many of our current
problems,
 environmental, social, and political, and has been since it's inception
when
 they ripped off the messiah of Israel and perverted it into something it
was
 not. The Inquistion was official church policy, they torturing and burning
of
 thousands upon thousands of women in Europe was official church policy.
The
 genocide of Native Americans, the enslavement of Africans, was made a part
of
 church doctrine. The current War On Some Drugs (which accounts for 75% of
our
 prison population) is pure religious persecution brought about by the
church.
 The epitome of christian political policy in Amerika today is the most
evil man
 in Amerika today, John Asscruft -- just look at his face, listen to his
voice,
 it's like Nazi Germany all over again.
Nazism is something else I've studied pretty intensely, and is one of
the
 reasons I find the current regime so frightening. Adolph Hitler once said:
 Those who think National Socialism is a polical party know nothing about
it. It
 is a religion, and the SS are the high priests. Hitler himself was not a
great
 intellect, nor had he much personal power, he was a medium, a puppet, for
the
 masters behind him who groomed him, educated him, and set him in place.
 There are great parallels between him and that evil little retard,
George
 W. Bush.


 
  -Original Message-
  From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Fw: cloudiness (Paul Gobert)

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[snip]

 Anyway, if too much lye forms that sticky gel and too little forms a third
 layer of unreacted WVO, then if I only get a layer of glycerine and a
layer
 of WVO, my proportions should be right, right?.
[snip]
Not a definitive guide as to the quality of the BD.
As an example made two batches of BD from some really well used oil.
(More about this oil in a few days when I do more tests, get more
imformation from the distributers.)
The oil titrated at 9.0ml, pretty well used. Tried neutralising some of the
acidity with lime but this oil refused to transesterify after the treatment.
Titration was definitely lower but even using levels of NaOH appropriate for
the titration on the origional oil, the treated oil/ methoxide mix remained
in one phase.
Going back to the origional oil I made two 1L batches. Both used 250ml of
methanol.
Batch A/. 15ml of conc aqueous NaOH added to methanol, Batch B/. 20ml added
to methanol.Shaken in 2L bottle, set aside. In half an hour both batches had
settled nicely.
The origional oil is almost black, BD/glycerine interface difficult to see
in A/., easier to see in B/. (BD in B lighter in colour)

Yield. A/.  810ml BD, 450ml glycerine.
   B/.   710ml BD, 500ml glycerine.

Glycerine from both batches drained off easily at 25 deg C.
Batch A/. glycerine was still liquid when last seen 6 hours later.
Batch B/. glycerine set after four hours, setting seemed to occur from the
top down even though the beaker was sitting on cold tiles.
From past experience expect both SG and viscosity of Batch B/. to be lower
than that from Batch A/.


 And very little whit residue (soap?) is left on top of the glycerine
layer.
 However, the first wash is very dirty (white, milky cloudy almos foamy).
So
 what should I change to get less soap formation?

Use an oil with less FFA.
Neutralise the FFA in the oil you use.
Titrate your oil and use the ammount of NaOH indicated by the titration.
The oil used here titrated to 12.5g NaOH/litre.
Batch A/. used the equivalent of 12.5g and Batch B/. 16.7g
Better to err on the high hide than the low side especially if you are
processing animal fats or the oil you are using has beef tallow residues in
it.
Use 250ml methanol per litre of oil.

 Can I wash indefinitely (say, three or four times) to remove all soap?

By all means. Make sure that your initial washing is not to vigorous though
as it is easy to loose BD through emulsification in the presence of soaps.
Mist washing combined with prolonged settling works well. Usually only the
emulsion layer between the BD and the wash water requires prolonged
settling.

Would be good to see others have an input to this as these observations are
from processing using conc aqueous NaOH to make the methoxide.
Whilst this method works well for me and the GC results have been
favourable, its not a method which has acheived universal acceptance.

Accounts of others experiences in these areas would be appreciated.
More on that Black Oil later.

Regards,  Paul Gobert.



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Re: [biofuel] Fw: cloudiness

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 2:27 AM
 My batch of BD settled the glycerine out nicely, though the BD still
seemed a bit cloudy. It was translucent, but not crystal clear... Is this
suspended water?

 I now bubble-washed it (not for long... the first few minutes produced an
emulsion of BD+water which seemed murky white-ish/yewllow-ish.

 Now Im settling it. The first wash water is very white (almost like
milk).

Christian, you could have soap problems. Filter a sample of the BD through a
filter paper.  It should filter crystal clear and leave a white soapy
residue on the paper.
Whatman No. 1 filter papers are rated at 11 micron.
Processing may have to be adjusted so that not so much soap is formed, or
use a gentler washing technique such as mist washing.

 QUESTION: If the BD remains non-crystal-clear after some washing 
settling, should I take it to 105 deg C for some minutes?

Have done that in past. BD clears up when heated but cloudiness returns when
it cools.
After filtering I trialed heat drying but no water dropped out, I no longer
heat dry, filtering is my final step.

Regards,   Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] Plastic Types

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 PET will work for methoxide. It is a more brittle plastic than HDPE so I
would not perpetually rely on the same bottle batch in and batch out.

 Also, mixing methoxide in a bottle or jug that can be sealed is not
advisable, as the tendency is for the operator to seal the jug and shake
until the catalyst dissolves.

 This is extremely dangerous. The dissolution of catalyst into alcohol
generates heat and pressure in a sealed container. Vigorous shaking of the
mixture further increases this pressure. Presuming the container does not
split or the cap pop, the pressure will have to be relased manually. This
can create a thin mist that can get on hands and surfaces. As well, after
initially releasing pressure, there may still be some undisolved catalyst
remaining in the jug. The temptation is to continue shaking the bottle after
the pressure is released.

 Unfortunately, it is quite possible that the operator might get distracted
and fail to retighten the cap before shaking, causing distribution of
methoxide into the surrounding area. I've seen some of the most careful
people make this mistake. Fortunately there was no human toll as a result.

 If the choice is made to prepare methoxide in such a manner, a swirling
motion is far safer than wild agitation of a supposedly sealed jug.

 Todd Swearingen


Todd sounds like a great recipe for a bomb to me. Might not be as
spectacular but results could be just as bad.
Another reason why I like to prepare methoxide using conc aqueous NaOH.
So much safer, quicker and more convenient.

Regards.
Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] Plastic Types

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 Does anyone know if:

 PC (polycarbonate),
 PP (polypropylene), or
 PET (polyethylene therfthalate -plastic coke bottles-)
 are suitable for the methoxide mix?
(snip)
Have mixed BD in PET bottles but not shure how they cope with methoxide.
Have mixed methoxide in domestic plastic buckets, white translucent plastic
20L bins and pyrex glass ware all without problems.

Some basic information on plastics identification and recycling.
http://www.wollongong.nsw.gov.au/docum

More detailed Information at Mid Michigan branch of Society of plastic
Engineers.
Some great teaching resources here.

http://www.midmichiganspe.org/education/identification.pdf

here is one for kieth with no pdf.

http://packaging.hp.com/evsec06.htm

That could be /eusec06.htm Never did learn to read
my own writing.
Info on other packaging material at that last site too.

Regards,

Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] fish fat

[Paul Gobert]

 information on fish oil
http://www.fishlink.com/ifoma/e2.1.html

Regards,   Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] test

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: useravav [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[snip]
 Does anyone know of where there is information on using diesel engines
 for gaseous fuel operation?
[snip]
 George,
The technique is called fumigation.
Quite a bit about it on web, a google search will bring up plenty of
information.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.



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Re: [biofuel] Re: acceptable containers for methoxide mixing

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[snip]
 Actually, for small quantities I like to use a Pyrex or Kimax flask
 (cheap on eBay), and a magnetic stirrer.  (also cheap on eBay).  The
 brand names aren't important, any borosilicate glass will do.  I'm just
 partial to Corning's Pyrex and Kimble's Kimax brands because I know
 they're quality equipment.
[snip]
Alan do you rember Dow Cornings great white elephant the Fleaker?
It was a cross between a beaker and a flask and had a bung.
Interesting piece of gear but I don't think anyone ever found an appropriate
use for them.
Bad market research. Have a set of them at work ranging from 250 ml to 1.4L,
and yes they are in unused condition.

Also have a couple of Corning 25ml measuring cylinders which somehow missed
out on a graduation mark and ended up measuring 24.5ml but still marked
25ml.
Great quality control.

Regards   Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] (Biodiesel) Hazard reduction when preparing methoxide.

[Paul Gobert]

Many of the hazards of methoxide production can be minumised by using the
NaOH in the form of conc aqueous solution.
Handling is minimal, solution in the methanol is instantaneous. The conc
aqueous NaOH solution is added slowly to the methanol with gently stirring
resulting in a clear liquid. (no CO2 contamination during prolonged
stirring.)  Heat generation is not a problem unless very high levels of NaOH
are used. Heat can be controlled by the rate of NaOH addition. The conc
aqueous NaOh can preprepared and stored in heavy plastic reagent bottles.
To prepare a conc aqueous solution of NaOH dissolve 1 kg of NaOH in 900ml of
water.
Choose a heat resistant inert containor for mixing. Add the NaOH solid to
the water slowly with stirring. Heat will be generated which aids the
solution of the solid.
Gentle occasional stirring is all that is required, solution should be
complete within 10 minutes.

 WARNING this hot solution is extremely corrosive and is capable of
decomposing skin and flesh instantly. Employ all the safety equipment
mentioned by Tod plus chemical resistant gloves,enclosed footware and full
length apron. Have a source of running water at hand ie a garden hose turned
on.

Another advantage of this method is that the main contaminant of NaOH,
sodium carbonate, from reaction of NaOH with carbon dioxide in the air, is
insoluble in the conc solution and will precipitate out if present. Infact
lower grades or moisture contaminated NaOH can be used with a decrease in
the water used for solution.
The state of the conc solution is temperature dependent. Below 20 deg C  (68
deg F) it may solidify, slight warming and shaking reverts it to a liquid
form.
The small ammount of water used for the solution seems to cause no problems,
yields are still high, there could be some additional soap formed but
washing has not been a problem. This has been part of my standard method for
over six months.
1 kg of solid NaOH  dissolves in 900 ml of water to give a final volume of
1200mls.
When preparing the methoxide multiply the grams of NaOH required by 1.2 to
arrive at the mls of conc aqueous NaOH solution required.

Regards,   Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] (Biodiesel) Hazard reduction when preparing methoxide.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 AQUEOUS SOLUTIONS OF CAUSTIC ARE THE LAST THING ANYONE SHOULD USE to
 manufacture biodiesel, as the end result will be soap with a high methanol
 concentration.
(snip).

Re: [biofuel] (Biodiesel) Hazard reduction when preparing methoxide.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Paul,

 All our experience tells us that the introduction of water into the
equation
 is not adviseable.

 A doctorate in chemistry is sitting around the corner from me shaking his
 head, No way.
[snip]

Plan to investigate various methods of methoxide production.
1/. Metalic sodium + methanol.
2/. Solid NaOH + methanol.
3/ Conc aqueous NaOH + methanol.

Make BD from each under controlled conditions and have the results analysed.
Perhaps we can discuss this further then.


Regards Paul.



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Re: [biofuel] (Biodiesel) Emulsification Problems.

[Paul Gobert]

Recently made my first batch of chicken Soup
Tried stirring in a strong salt solution, no change.
Strong acetic acid stirred in instantly broke the emulsion. Was able to
drain off water within the hour.
Good source of strong acetic acid is photographic Stop Bath concentrate.
It has been noted that treating BD with acid is not normally a good idea
(easpeially this ammount, about 1ml per litre).
How did I get chicken Soup?
Am working my way up to larger batch sizes.
Old copper H/W cylinder used for glycerine settling. Bottom removed,
inverted.
Yet to plumb in pump and heater so had to make a number of small batches and
add them to tank.
Oil/fat heated in 20L pails, 15L heated oil transfered to plastic drum,
methoxide added, drum sealed and shaken. Mixture poured into settling tank.
The tank holds about 120L so it takes some time to heat the oil in 20L
batches and process.
During this time the glycerine from the initial batch settled out, cooled
and solidified (high caustic levels used, above that indicated by
titration). An hour later was able to drain glycerine from later mixes after
unplugging drain hole.
When using high levels of NaOH I like to separate the glycerine from the BD
as soon as possible. Usually after 1 hour and then again the next day. BD in
contact with highly caustic glycerine tends to form a layer of jelly at the
BD glycerine interface. The colour of the jelly is the same as the BD.
Usually I force this jelly through a screen to break it up and added to the
unwashed BD. Washing further breaks up the jelly and gives a normal BD which
shows no tendency to reform the jelly.
Well thats the ideal situation. To drain the raw BD from my tank I had to
unblock the drain hole.
In the process some glycerine and jelly was dislodged. First 20L of raw BD
came out uncontaminated. This washed with no problems( part A). The next two
20L (part B)contained some glycerine and jelly. The last 20L in particular
(added to B) contained most of the jelly, because I foolishly scraped it off
the glycerine and added it to the BD. First wash (bubble wash) for that
batch went on a bit too long and gave a very nice imitation of chicken soup.
Quite a stable emulsion. Added some conc acetic acid (about 1% addition) and
emulsion immediately broke. Subsequent washes were no problem. Gave an extra
wash just in case. Final wash waters for both parts were clear and tested pH
7.
Tests on finished product.
Part A. ( at 28.5 deg C)
SG 0.8747
Viscosity 33.96 seconds(to drain 100ml
pipette)
acidity 0.38mls

Part B. (at 23 deg C)
SG 0.8749
Viscosity 34.61 seconds
acidity 0.63ml

Would be interesting to have GLC done on both parts to see what the
difference was.
Regardles both batches are going into the tank.

Regards,   Paul Gobert.



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel,SG of veg oils/WVO

[Paul Gobert]

 - Original Message -
 From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel,Glycerine pretreat
  By the way, do you have SGs for  VO and WVO? - averages?

Oils purchased from supermarket.

OilSGViscosity (100ml pipette
seconds to drain)
at 28 degree
C. (ambient)
Sunflower0.9161109.62
Corn 0.9149109.73
Peanut  0.9093115.3
Grapeseed0.9158105.74
Canola  0.9126111.54
Soyabean  0.9149108.00
Olive 0.9091118.28
Sesame  0.9146112.77
Saflower 0.9225acidity 0.6ml

WVO.
Reward vegetable oil,well used   0.9178, acidity = 4.35ml of 0.1% NaOH.

Tallow filtered from well used cotton seed oil (oil almost black)
tallow SG 0.9195 at 50 deg C, acidity 3.8mls
(CSO SG 0.9178   acidity 4.2mls)

ETA Salfry vegetable oil SG 0.9167   viscosity 140.34 seconds

Formulae 40 Cottonseed oil. SG 0.9136  acidity 1ml.
SG 0.9280  acidity 1 ml

Waste Cottonseed oil, washed with equal volume of water, settled overnight,
water clear pH 7  oil milky, oil decanted and heated to 170 deg C.  SG
0.9175, acidity 0.55ml.

Used Peanut oil (from domestic kitchen)
SG 0.9100,viscosity   134.67 sec at 28 deg C, acidity   0.6ml

Regards,
Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel,Glycerine pretreat

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: t_watchornnz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 The SG results form my tests with pre-treated oil are as follows.
 Note all are unwashed except for the normal brew sample:

 Test 1, 20 mil (8%) methanol. SG 0.9111
 Test 2, 25 mil (10%) methanol. SG 0.9051
 Test 3, 32 mil (13%) methanol. SG 0.9036
 Test 4, Same as test 2 using another mix of preteat oil. SG 0.9056
 My normal brew using 17% meth and titration + 1.4 grams. SG 0.8946
(snip)
SGs all a bit on the low side indicating only partial transesterification.

 What SG number should we be aiming for?
(snip)
Trevor it depends upon whether you are wanting to sell the BD or just make
it for your own consumption. If you are going to sell it it makes sense to
conform to standards.
International standards range from 0.875 to 0.90 for the DIN E 51606
(German) standard to 0.85 to 0.89 for the ON C1191 (Austrian) standard.
(These figures are for tests at 15 deg C).
Remember this is on washed BD.  Unreacted methanol in unwashed BD will lower
the SG unrealistically.

 Do you have any info on viscosity measuring?
Lacking a commercial viscometer I use a 100ml bulb pipette.
The pipette is filled to above the graduation mark with the BD to be tested.
A stopwatch is used to record the draining time from when the BD passes the
graduation till the discharge changes from a stream to drops.
Repeatability of this test is within hundredths of a second.
The results act as a guide to relative viscosities of different samples, the
only liquids of known viscosity which I have run through it are 20 grade
auto transmission fluid and water.
 SAE 20 auto transmission fluid  130 seconds
Water   25.9 secomds
Diesel fuel (distillate).30.3 seconds.
waste cottonseed oil147.3 seconds
Used Blended vegetable oil149.3 seconds.

Results from a trial involving set methanol level and variation in NaOH
levels.

Feedstock waste animal fat (Frytol), titration 2.2ml 0.1% NaOH  ie optimum
level of NaOH 5.7g/litre.
Methoxide, 225ml /litre methanol in all cases. Conc aqueous NaOH solution
added to methanol. NaOH levels equivalent to
4.2g/l,4.7,5.2,5.7,6.3,6.8,7.3,7.8,8.3g/litre.
Results for washed and filtered product  (no heat drying).
NaOHSGViscosity
g/Lseconds.
4.20.879837.96
4.70.877436.89
5.20.874535.68
5.70.872235.90
6.30.870834.86
6.80.869734.73
7.30.868334.30
7.80.871134.48  (experimental error?)
8.30.868534.11.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.




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Re: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel,Glycerine pretreat

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel,Glycerine pretreat



 - Original Message -
 From: t_watchornnz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   The SG results form my tests with pre-treated oil are as follows.
   Note all are unwashed except for the normal brew sample:
  
   Test 1, 20 mil (8%) methanol. SG 0.9111
   Test 2, 25 mil (10%) methanol. SG 0.9051
   Test 3, 32 mil (13%) methanol. SG 0.9036
   Test 4, Same as test 2 using another mix of preteat oil. SG 0.9056
   My normal brew using 17% meth and titration + 1.4 grams. SG 0.8946
 (snip)
 SGs all a bit on the low side indicating only partial
transesterification.(Paul).

 High side? :-/ Have I got it all wrong?? Maybe if I stand on my
 head... No, surely it should be on the high side.(Keith).
(snip)
You are right there Keith  I should have said that the high SG figures
indicated partial transesterification.

 By the way, re that typo where it said WVO when it should have said
 tallow, no, it seems I can't change it for the sake of the archives.
 Seems all I can do is delete messages, not alter them. That's good! -
 just as it should be. I didn't realise I'd never actually tried it
 before. Anyway, best to post a correction I guess. Sorry, that took
 me a bit of time!(Keith).
(snip)
Think I may have posted a correction shortly after. Correction at this stage
could be difficult to tie to origional. Lists with topica seem to have an
advantage here with the author able to modify/update/delete their postings.

What are you using to check SG? (Keith).
I use a 100ml volumetric flask and an electronic ballance accurate
to 3 decimal places.

Temperature corrections?(Keith)
Have recorded temps and have correction formula but yet to
calculate.
Seasonally temp varies from 15 to 35 deg C in the lab, quite a pleasant 26
deg C at moment.

 By the way, do you have SGs for  VO and WVO? - averages? (Keith)
Have SG and viscosities for Vegetable Oils (Purchased from
supermarket) will post figures this afternoon.

Regards Paul



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel,Glycerine pretreat

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: t_watchornnz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:30 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Biodiesel,Glycerine pretreat


Trevor, please excuse delay in replying

 I have gone on to process upper layer (eg top 2 layers mixed!)
 Titration of oil was 0.6 mil. I normally get 1.8 to 2.5 mil form my
 one supply.

Titration of upper layer would suggest that there was not enough residual
caustic in glycerine to neutralise FFA in oil. Therefore not enough excess
for transesterification.

 I normally use about 17% methanol.

17%  methanol wouldn't leave much methanol in the glycerine.
Would hardly be worth the trouble of recovery.
Rate of conversion of WVO would also be low, generally agreed that 20 to 25%
methanol required for high rate of conversion WVO to ester.
At that use rate methanol recovery becomes worthwhile.
Options 1/. Distillation
2/. Mix fresh WVO with glycerine
3/. Add glycerine to next batch, use lower % of methanol.
4/. Can anyone suggest another method?
Whilst option 1 is well established options 2 and 3 are as far as I know
experimental.
2 would require higher than normal levels of NaOH so that enough was carried
over in the glycerine to both neutralise the FFA in the WVO and catalyse the
reaction. This in turn produces its own problems.

The mixture of WAF and glycerine did not turn out as planed.
Had hoped that upon cooling thjree layers would form. BD,solid unreacted WAF
and glycerine. Result was two levels, semi-liquid fat above glyverine.

So tried 3 test batches of 250
 mils. Used 0.5 to 0.6 grams of caustic in all batches. Mixed in
 blender for 10 minutes at 30 to 40 deg C.
 Test 1, 20 mil (8%) methanol
 Test 2, 25 mil (10%) methanol
 Test 3, 32 mil (13%) methanol

Have not had much success with such low levels of methanol,they are all
below the ammount required by the reaction and an excess is usually required
to push the reaction towards completion.
With the variable and poor quality feedstocks that I use experienced a lot
of failures before moving up from 15% methanol.

 In all the stuff I have read re-titration of oil it says to add 3
 to 3.5 grams to the resulting mils and use this as your grams per
 litre. With test batches I find I only need to add 1.4 grams to
 titration result to give good result. Have double checked my caustic
 solution and method and think everything is correct. I this a common
 result??
With good quality oil the result may appear satisfactory but I would suspect
that the reaction has not gone to completion without the 3.5g to act as
catalyst.
A fair guide would be the ammount of glycerine. Its volume should
approximate the ammount of methanol used (given that enough methanol was
used to ensure complete reaction).
With well used WVO/WAF I find that more than the titrated ammount of NaOH is
required for satisfactory reaction/stability of product.

Look forward to reading further results,

Paul Gobert.




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Re: [biofuel] Re: $7.5 Million Feedstock Subsidy for SSPC

[Paul Gobert]

You are serious, aren't you?  You really do not know what you have said that
is wrong!
I rest my case.
PS: take a look at the web site if you're still having a problem with
appreciation of discriminatory terminology.
Mrs Robyn Gobert (to you).

 Did someone strike the wrong cord?
 Am I just too serious?
 Or is this all tongue in cheek?
 And here I've been living under the impression that all humans are
disabled...  ;-)

 Todd Swearingen

Re:   HOW DARE YOU!

   This is sueable language these days and quite uncalled for, FRED...

   People with disabilities are striving hard to have their needs
recognised
   and to fight exactly the sort of thing you've, in your blatant IGNORANCE
   written here.
   Unbelievable diatribe, you should be ashamed to take breath!
   Robyn Gobert, Paul Gobert's wife, www.e-bility.com/articles


   From: fatguy1966 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:08 AM
   Subject: [biofuel] Re: $7.5 Million Feedstock Subsidy for SSPC


Harmon,
   
Please keep in mind that most evil retards work in either law
enforcement or politics.  The good retards also known as the 'Tards
in White, would be offended that they are known and referred to
as retarted.  They prefer the term Developmentally Delayed
(politicians and law enforcement excluded.)
   
Here is my example of an evil retard.  We have Guv'ner Turnbuckle
telling us that because we are under attack by the taliban that he
has the responsibility to raise taxes.
   
His daughter is developmentally delayed and could do a better job in
office than he can.
   
fred
   
   
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 06:40:44AM +0900, Keith Addison wrote:
  Someone said the other day: I'd rather have a competent
president in
  bed with an intern than an incompetent one in bed with an oil
  company. At least one - don't flame me for that please you guys
in

Well, we had 8 years of a smart but evil president (with a worse
environmental record of anybody since Nixon,
 I think, and both Nixon and Reagan were arguably better) and now
we've got a really evil retard. Just goes to
 show that when you choose the lesser of two evils, you always have
evil.
Pretty hopeless situation -- but what do you expect of a nation
that leads the world in obesity? And I
 currently live in Wisconsin, which state leads the US in obesity.
Our governor just recently announced a one
 billion dollar shortfall in the state budget, they're even going to
lay off college professors, and at least
 one braindead state legislator is calling for the total closing of
at least one of the state universities.


 --
 Harmon Seaver
 CyberShamanix
 http://www.cybershamanix.com
   
   
   
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Re: [biofuel] Glycerine pretreat

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: t_watchornnz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 6:03 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Glycerine pretreat


t, haven't progressed very far with my investigation of this.

 I did try mixing 1 litre of glycerine with 1 litre of used Canola oil
 at about 50 degC, mixing by hand now  then over an hour. After 24
 hours had about 250 mil Esters, 900 mil oil, 850 mil glycerine. Was
 surprised to see lest glycerine than oil. The oil layer had yellowy
 aerated look, and has stayed that way after 6 days (it was clean
 clear looking to start with)
 I presume it is just the oily middle layer that you then go on to
 process with the usual methods.

Thats interesting, I've always ended up with two distinct layers, partially
transesterified WVO and glycerine.
Mixing was by shaking vigorously in a 2L Plastic bottle.
Yet to determine which is better way to go.Single treatment or repetive
treatment.
Single treatment sees the glycerine discarded after one retreat. The
partially transesterified WVO is then processed with a lower volume of
methoxide than normal.
Repetitive treatment retains the glycerine and treats it a number of times
with  WVO and lower than normal levels of methoxide until the volume of
glycerine becomes too great. BD from the repetitive treatment should require
no further processing.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.



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Re: Trains - was Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:57 AM
Subject: Trains - was Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing


 Here's something someone sent me about the London Underground - the Metro.
Very interesting Keith, the Biology teachers at school should be able to use
this.
Gives a whole new meaning to Public Transport.
At least in your own vehicle you are mainly responsible for the bacterial
flora and have probably developed a resistance to it.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Processing animal fats

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: awaideau [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Paul,
We are currently using the quantities suggested.  Despite weeks of
 settling and boiling, we get what appears to be large quantities of
 soap at room temp, althoug with a small amount of heating ( to about
 40-50 degrees C ) this soap appears to melt.  Because of this I am
 not sure if it is soap or unprocessed fat.  There is almost no trace
 of glycerine in the bottom, and only about 5% of the total volume in
 liquid biodiesel on top.
 This morning I tried to 'wash' a sample and when water was added the
 mixture became thick and white, probably the soap.

Allen it sounds as though the reaction is incomplete. Animal fat can be
tricky. i suspect that it doesn't obey the titration rule.
Try retreating the batch with a 8gNaOH/50ml methanol  per litre brew of
methoxide, could take a while to dissolve the NaOH, may have to use more
methanol. If this works up the NaOH level in subsequent batches.
Used 16.7g of NaOH per litre to successfully process beef tallow. Figures
seem ridiculously high but processed well.

 Regards, Paul Gobert.

 www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp/MemberID=517



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Re: [biofuel] Processing animal fats

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: awaideau [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Has anyone had any success making biodiesel using only animal fats.
 If so I am after some advise on how to get the crap to work properly.

Allan, would suggest using high levels of methanol and NaOH.
Have made BD from Frytol, edible animal fat with 8g/L NaOH and 250ml/L
methanol.
Vigorous mixing and separating the BD and glycerine as soon as is practical
( 1 to 2 hours then again at 24hrs) gives best results.
If you have problems with tallow/tallow ester dropout after the BD has stood
for a few days,  freeze/thaw then filter the BD .
On subsequent batches up the ammount of NaOH.

Regards, Paul Gobert.

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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel from lard (tallow)

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Anyone using lard or tallow to make biodiesel? I've got some lard and
 I'd like to try it, I think it's pork lard. Anything special to know?
 Same sort of titration, for instance? And use more methanol, I guess.

Keith a lot of fish  chip shops in Australia use Frytol an animal fat
product.
Solid fats seem to tolerate abuse better than veg oils.
Titration is usually fairly low compared with veg oil used under the same
conditions.
Even WVO in Australia is contaminated with tallow because of the almost
universal practise of using frozen chips which have been precooked in beef
tallow.
The levels of NaOH indicated by the titration of the oil/tallow mix are
insufficient to process  both the oil and the tallow.
The BD at first looks good but tallow will cloud it after a few days and
this will take some weeks to settle.
Freezing/chilling then thawing speeds the clearing.

Have had success with straight tallow filtered from well used cotton seed
oil (almost
black) using  16g NaOH /250ml methanol.

Some details.

#1008

DATE
20-12-01
AIM
To make BD from Tallow filtered from WVO
BACKGROUND
BD made from WVO containing beef tallow when processed by std method,
suffers from fallout of whitish material after a few days.
FEEDSTOCK
Tallow filtered from heavily used waste cotton seed oil.
Oil almost black, titration 67 drops  =4.2  mls 0.1% NaOH.
Oil S.G. 0.9178,
Tallow S.G.  0.9195 at 50 deg C.  Titration  57 drops = 3.8mls 0.1% NaOH
Titration indicates to use 7.3 g NaOH/litre WVO
Initial volume of WVO 900ml for both A and B
METHOXIDE
A/.  20ml conc aqueous NaOH (= 16.7g )  mixed into 250ml methanol (per litre
WVO)
B/. ..   ..  ..   ..   ..  ..  ..   ..   ..   ..   ..   ..   ..   ..   ..
..   .  225ml  ..   ..   ..   ....   ..   ..
REACTION VESSEL
2litre PET bottle.
PROCESSING
50 deg C
REACTION PROGRESS
Both batches separated within 1 hour.
GLYCERINE
21-12-01.
A/. Solid, whitish
B/.  Solid, whitish
UNWASHED BD
A/. 690 ml  (77% of origional oil volume), SG 0.8745, Good separation, BD
able to be poured off solid glycerine,some gelatinous materialat
BD/glycerine interface.  BD slightly turbid.
B/. 550ml  (61% of origional oil volume), SG 0.8771. A lot of gelatinous
material at BD/glycerine interface.
WASHING
02-01-02. Bubble wash, equal volumes of water.
A+B  1st wash  very white. Both batches washed well with three washes
FILTERING
Both batches filtered easily through Whatman No. 1 filter paper (11um).
Crystal clear BD.
CHILLING/FREEZING
Overnight at 13 deg C  both batches still flowing but cloudy.
Chilled  to 8 deg C , set solid.  Thawed to a clear BD with no deposit of
tallow etc.
FINAL PRODUCT
A/.  SG 0.8750 at 32 deg C
B/.  SG 0.8742 ..  .. ..  ..
CONCLUSION
BD can be produced from tallow using high levels of NaOH and methanol.
FOLLOWUP
Reduce ammount of NaOH to try to increase yield.


Subsequent tests have shown that  when using high levels of NaOH,leaving BD
sitting above glycerine for more than a few hours causes the formation of
gellatinous material at the BD/glycerine interface.
Suggest draining glycerine as soon as most has separated, standing BD
overnight and draining off further glycerine next day.
The gelatinous material is I believe polymerised BD. It can be forced
through a gauze filter to form a slurry which washes to yield liquid BD.
Washed BD, free from NaOH does not form this gellatinous material.

Hope this is of help Keith,
A small repayment for all the information and enjoyment this group has given
me.

Paul Gobert.

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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Martin Rogac [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Thanks Paul
 Are you in the UK?
 Martin

My pleasure Martin.
I'm in Australia but you didn't seem to be getting much response from the UK
so I chipped in.
As keith suggested a search of the archives is always a good starting point.
My guess is that the regulars on this group are reluctant to repeat what has
already been posted wanting to investigate new ideas. Often newcommers to
the group are unaware of the archives or how to access them.
The influence and questions posed by novices (not that I am suggesting that
you are a novice Martin) is essential for the direction of the group. After
all teachers often learn from their pupils.

 Regards,
 Paul Gobert.

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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Martin Rogac [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Can anyone answer these questions please
 How much Glycerine% is produced from WVO, how / why does this % vary?
Martin,
The glycerine yield is approximately the same volume as the methoxide used.
A little less because the reaction results in a slight reduction in total
volume.
High levels of NaOH (above titration figure) will decrease BD yield and
increase the volume of lower layer.
Could not say for sure if this is all glycerine however.

 How much Methanol is in the Glycerine?
From memory the reaction consumes 140ml of methanol per litre of WVO.
(check).
 Excess is usually used to push the reaction in the desired direction.
Methanol is insoluble in BD but soluble in glycerine.

 Is anybody recovering the Methanol from Glycerine?
There is much discussion of inclusion of methanol recovery systems in
reactor designs, but little talk of using recovered methanol within this
group at present. A search of the archives could reveal more information.
Am currently working on chemical means to recover the methanol.

 What do you do with this Glycerine? - UK based question.
Uses range from soapmaking to cleaning paintbrushes to handcleaner (with
methanol removed) etc.
Apparently there is a market for high grade glycerol but refining it to that
stage is expensive.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.

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Re: [biofuel] Re: WVO processor catalyst module--Methanol recovery

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Anthony R Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Hello paul,
 I have read your postings on the biofuel newsgroup.
 Where in Oz are you?

Greetings Tony, my location is The Atherton Tableland, inland from Cairns,
Tropical North Queensland.
Have looked in to methanol recovery from the glycerine by distillation.
Friend gave me a stainless steel beer keg fitted out with temperature gauge.
They used to make Snapps.
Am currently working on chemical recovery methods with the aim of reducing
complexity and time/energy input.
Will be in touch.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.



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Re: [biofuel] WVO processor design parameters--Questions/input?

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Can anyone tell me what the pH of BD is prior to
 washing and what the lowest temperature at which the
 reaction will take place is?

Dana pH of BD prior to washing can be 9 or 10 or even higher if an excess of
NaOH is used.
Clean lightly used tallow-free wvo can be processed at 20 deg C, the
reaction just takes a bit longer.
Unfortunately WVO in Aust contains beef tallow leached from the part-cooked
frozen chips used by fishchip shops. This mixture will not process cold (at
least the tallow portion won't).
The use of excess NaOH mentioned above, in conjunction with 250ml of
Methanol per litre and temp of 55 deg C processes the oil and tallow giving
a uniform BD which shows no sign of tallow/ tallow ester dropout on standing
or freezing. This is usually a big problem with oil containing tallow.
 The WVO deacidificaton/filtration unit which you are developing sounds just
the thing for problem WVO.
Would it also be suitable for waste animal fat ( a favourite chip cooker in
Oz fish  chip shops)?

 Is anyone using a plastic reaction vessel?

Yes and sometimes. For 1L test batches I use the Patented Dr.Pepper Method
by Tilly. PET bottles withstand the reaction, heat, initial presurisation
and final depresurisation. Some of the larger batches I have made involved
mixing/settling  the reactants in 25L  plastic buckets and polythene(?)
drums. Neither has caused problems.
Some plastics are more resiliant than others, the worst seem to be plastic
appliance cases and general consumer plastic items.

For your BD production add on vessel you may be interested in utilising an
idea myself and others have tried.
Mechanically mixing the NaOH into the methanol is a dangerous and time
consuming process.
A much simpler method is to substitute a concentrated aqueous solution of
NaOH for the solid NaOH.
The small ammount of water in the solution appears to make no difference to
the reaction. Perhaps it is chemicaly bound. Mixing is instantaneous, easy
and safe. The method lends itself to automation if an alkali resintant pump
can be used. Possibly a peristaltic pump would be suitable.  More details
supplied if interested.

One scenario I have considered to get around the EPA/Local Council
lisencing restictions on transporting WVO was to part process the WVO at
pick up.  Two engine oil pumps would be coupled to an electric motor, one
running at 1/5 the speed of the other. The faster pump would draw the WVO
from its container, circulate it through a coil of pipe heated by propane.
The slower pump would be for the methoxide (could be corosion and seal
problems here). Both pumps would deliver into one end of a mixing chamber
consisting of a length of pipe packed with ball bearings. The chamber is
unpressurised and discharges by overflow, ie in at the bottom and out at the
top. The mixture is then fed into  lidded bins. Now I am no longer
transporting waste but fuel with a much higher flashpoint than the diesel
that used to be carried in the fuel tank of the vehicle.
Settling, decanting, washing and filtering  is all that remains to be done.
 Regards, Paul Gobert.

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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel, Static Mixer Tube.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 dear paul, your mixing tube packed witn ball bearings
 and two pump idea sounds great. could you please supply
 some more detail info (sketch,dimensions)?
   regards, roger kurz ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

Greetings Rodger,
At the moment it is just an idea. I have gone so far as to purchase two
Toyota Landcruiser oil pumps.
$17 Aus each seemed pretty good given the capabilities of these pumps. Hand
cranked drum pumps are selling for many times that.( Hand crank could be
substituted for electric motor in my origional idea).
The oil pumps and static mixer tubes are both ideas suggested by others, I
can only take credit for the idea of using them together. So not much in the
way of further details available at this stage.

The pumps and mixing tube will be assembled once a processing regime is
established.
At present I am working on using unreacted WVO oil to extract the excess
methanol from the glycerine layer.
Producing a stable, quality BD from the tallow laden WVO available in
Australia requires an excess of methanol and NaOH. 20ml conc aqueous NaOH
soln and 250ml per litre methanol work well but the volume of yield drops to
about 85% of oil volume. SG and viscosity  are low, low temp stability and
viscosity good. This is however an expensive way to make BD. Gelling of the
unwashed BD is also a problem, I may be able to reduce NaOH level. Initial
tests show that the methanol can be recovered in this way reducing the cost.
Choice of a two stage or continuous recovery process will govern my choice
of pump speed ratios and reaction vessels etc.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.

www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp?MemberID=517


Results of this experimentation will determine


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Re: [biofuel] WVO animal fat removal/catalyst

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 It appears to me that animal fats become partailly
 hydrogenated when passed through hot H2O and can then
 be easily removed from the vegoil/anifat mix prior to
 filtering. This might make the semi automated
 production of BD much simpler.

This is very interesting and would be useful for wintertime BD production.
I have separated beef tallow from WVO by filtration through thick cloth. Its
a slow and impractical process.
The  tallow by itself processes well with high levels of NaOH/Methanol.
Chilling forms a semi solid at around 15 deg C. So no good for winter use.
Thawing reverts it to  its liquid state with with no dropout or cloudiness.
At present am sourcing WVO (ETA Salfry) containing beef tallow. Had the good
fortune to obtain a couple of drums of this oil that had not been
contaminated with beef tallow. It produced excellent BD with high viscosity
at low temperatures. Unfortunately the supply was limited.
Salfry from the current source contains a fair ammount of tallow (yet to
determine the ammount). It processes well with high NaOH/Methanol giving a
BD which can be chilled to about 5 deg C before solidification becomes a
problem. Other feedstocks I have used such as cotton seed oil/tallow have
been more temperature sensitive.
It depends on what the tallow is contaminating.
One possibility for tallow removal would be to use an old twin tub washing
machine. The spin bowl could be lined with filter cloth to catch the tallow.
For optimum tallow removal the WVO would best be chilled to solidify all the
tallow.



 Even if the catalyst is expensive it should pay
 for itself if it produces BD without the expense of
 methanol, etc.

With conventional NaOH/Methanol conversion the NaOH plays a dual role. Its
primary role is to act as a catalyst. Its secondary role is to neutralise
and acidity which is built up in the WVO in use. This acidity would
otherwise neutralise and negate the catalytic action of the NaOH.
Alternative catalysts would still require methanol for the
transesterification reaction which produces BD.

Regards,
Paul Gobert.

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Re: [biofuel] Titration?

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message - 
From: Chris Amar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Any suggestions out there as to where one would purchase 99%
 isopropyl alcohol? 

Try chemical reagent supply houses.

regards Paul Gobert.

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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel pH

[Paul Gobert]

LT the biodiesel I am currently producing and all of my trial batches have 
been well washed and have tested pH 5.5 to 6.0. 
Perhaps the reference to 7.5 is in regard to the pH of the wash water.
Yes the first wash waters will end up a milky colour. Washing should be 
repeated until the wash water is clear and has a pH of 7. This usually 
takes two or three equal volume washes. The milkyness is from contaminants 
and emulsification of a small ammount of the BD. pH meters are not at 
their best trying to measure either oil or water, better to use Universal 
Indicator solution.

Paul Gobert.

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Re: [biofuel] Glycerine pretreat

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:10 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Glycerine pretreat (was Why people like SUVs


 Paul,

 Just a suggestion - change the subject line. What you posted - the
(valuable)
 results of your glycerin experiments - had nothing to do with Why People
Like
 SUVs.

Thanks Craig, bit of a slip up on my part, out of practise I guess, haven't
posted anything for a while.

Also forgot to include that the BD made from the WCSO I used for pretreat
test usually has an SG of around 0.8850.  This will give an indication of
the amount of methanol recovery in the pretreatment.

Paul Gobert.

www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp?MemberID=517


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Re: [biofuel] SVO--possible tank heat.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Dana my main interest is Biodiesel. Heating the fuel would allow me to use
BD from beef tallow/animal fats in winter. ( rarely below 0 deg C in this
part of OZ)   Information in this branch of discussion group very helpful.

 How much current does it draw?
The kettle is designed to plug into cigarette lighter socket. from memory
these usually have a 10 or 15 amp fuse. Rating of element must be low as it
takes a long time to boil a small jug of water.

Elements designed to heat H2O have a short lifespan in SVO due to the fact
that H2O better dissapates heat than SVO.
Yes have heard that, would need circulation of SVO over element. Another
option people have used is to underrate the element by connecting two in
series, but heat output drops off considerably.

 How do you plan on heating your lines?
Since i will be using BD I don't think I will bother with line heating. Any
heating will be by engine coolant or electrically at or before filter.
Intend to double up on fuel delivery lines. Aftermarket tank fitted has two
outlets . Could wrap insulation over delivery and return lines under vehicle
but I think the return would not be worth the trouble.

Regards,  Paul

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Re: [biofuel] SVO--possible tank heat.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message - 
From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 I think a better idea than trying to adapt the heater
 you have is to either make your own nichrome heat
 immersion coil or buy the veg therm from Neoteric
 fuels.  I will haevmore info on making your own coils
 soon..just downloaded software for figuring out draw
 and output based on dia. and length of wire.

Sounds interesting Dana.
 
 Where do you plan on placing this in your BD system
 again? Would a heated filter work as well? Isn't that
 the most lilely place to clog with the BD made form
 animal fats and tallow? Much simpler to heat that.
 
Yes, heated filter sounds like first step.

Paul.



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Re: [biofuel] Why people like SUVs

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
Recyling methanol from glycerine.
What does anyone have to say about pretreating the biodiesel with the
leftover weaste glycerin with the methanol still init? mix the glyc, whicvh
has meth and NAOH, then do a reaction with a corresponding lesser amount of
reactants...
anton berteaux.

Keep going, you're doing very well. I can tell you it works well if
you get it right, but I'm not free to tell you any more than that. Be
encouraged!
Best
Keith Addison

Anton I like the idea. Results of a couple of trials.

Waste glycerine from a batch of well used solidified vegetable oil
(Citation).
12.5ml conc aqueous NaOH and 225ml methanol per litre used for conversion.
Filtered waste cotton seed oil (FWCSO) SG 0.9136.

1/. 400ml glycerine + 100ml  FWCSO
   reacted at 55 deg C, mixed intermittently over one hour as temp held.
Settled overnight, upper layer 145ml, SG 0.8957
Retreat bottom layer with another 100ml glycerine
again increased volume  SG 0.9072

2/. 600ml glycerine + 600ml FWCSO
treatment as above.
upper layer 760ml  SG 0.9058
However pH of remaining glycerol just above 7 indicating that FFA in FWCSO
had neutralised NaOH and probably would have limited the extent of the
reaction.

Further tests required but I will certainly be using this method to recover
the excess methanol.
By using more than the titrated ammount of NaOH an excess will remain in the
glycerol to neutralise the FFA in the FWCSO. Or thr FWCSO could be
neutralised with slaked lime.  High levels of NaOH favour conversion of high
FFA oils and tallow. Have found that for a given methanol level the more
NaOH used the lower the SG and Viscosity of the BD. However yield volume
drops off. Treating the glycerine with WVO could reclaim this loss.

Keith, why the secrecy?.

Regards Paul Gobert.



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Re: [biofuel] 1981 Peugeot 505 turbodiesel sedan

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 1:04 PM
Subject: [biofuel] 1981 Peugeot 505 turbodiesel sedan


 Available. Original owner. I have not seen it. Anyone have one?

 Ed B.
 www.biofuels.ca

Ed. I'm looking for one of these in OZ. Anything Peugeot is reliable,
longlasting and fun to drive.
Have owned 203s,403s,404, and 504s over the years. All petrol I'm afraid but
the deisel engines have a good reputation.
As they say Peugeot, engineered to be enjoyed.
Cars designed by Engineers not beancounters.

A confessed Peugeotphile,
Paul Gobert.



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[biofuel] BD Trial Batch Test Results

[Paul Gobert]

Trial Batch Test Results, Copyright Paul Gobert Nov 2001.

No reproduction without permission.
Constant methanol level(225ml/L WAF), various NaOH levels.
Waste Animal Fat (Frytol)

Titration 2.2ml 0.1% NaOH,indicates optimum 5.7g/L

Agitation, 1Litre of warm oil + methoxide into plastic 2L softdrink bottle.
Shaken vigorously for 10 to 15 seconds.
Temp of reaction 55 deg C.
NaOH used in conc aqueous solution form.
weights represent equivalent ammount of NaOH, ie multiply the weight quoted
by 1.2 to obtain the ammount of NaOH solution I used.

Test methods.
SG. 100ml volumetric flash. weight of contents/100

Viscosity. Time to drain 100ml pipette. Timing from when BD passes graduated
mark to when stream changes to drop. result expressed in seconds.
(Water 25.9 sec, Distillate 30.3 sec,20 grade auto transmission fluid 130
sec.)

pH. 1ml of BD mixed with 1 ml of isopropyl alcohol and treated with
universal indicator liquid.

Acidity. 1ml of BD or WAF mixed with 10ml isopropyl alcohol, phenolphthalein
indicator added,titrated with 0.1% NaOH, result expressed in mls.

RAW BD. 16hrs settling.
g/LGlycerineGlycerine.BD/gly
cerine Interface
NaOH.Appearance..Composition..
4.2..Dark,liquid.uniformindistinct,a
lot of meally white material.
4.7..dark,solid...uniform...slight
ammount of meal at interface.
5.2..dark,solid...uniform...small
ammount of meal at interface.
5.7..dark,solid...uniform...good
separation.
6.3..dark,solid..10% gelatinous
6.8..dark,solid..25% gelatinous
7.3..dark,solid..33% gelatinous material+clumps/lumps
7.8..dark,solid,.50% gelatinous material+clumps/lumps
8.3..dark,solid100% gelatinous,clumps/lumps.
8.8..dark,solid. total volume (BD+glycerine)set solid

(Gelatinous deposit in glycerol layer is pale brown in colour with whitish
flecks and increases volume of glycerine layer. See Raw BD yields below).

Raw BD Yields.
BD volume as a % of origional WAF volume.

NaOH Level.%yield of BD relative to vol WAF used.
4.2g/L...72% Difficulty separating from lower
level.
4.799%
5.298%
5.7(titn)95%
6.395%
6.893%
7.385%
7.866%
8.361%

All samples chilled to 9 deg C, held there for 2 days. Allowed to thaw at
room temp (28 deg C). Tallow deposits in all samples.
Vacuum filtration through filter paper (Watman No.1, Buchner funnel + Flask)

NaOH...Ease of Filtering.Deposit on
filter paper.
4.2g/Lmedium...gelatinou
s + whitish deposit.
4.medium...gelat
inous + crumbly whitish deposit.
5.2..medium/fast...slight
gelatinous + crumbly whitish deposit.
5.7..fast..n
o deposit
6.3..fast..n
o deposit
6.8.slow.a
lot of gelatinous material.
7.3 not recorded
7.8mediuma lot
of gelatinous material.
8.3.fast...a
lot of gelatinous material.

Filtered samples stood for 5 days.
NaOH..Deposit...
..BD
4.2g/L.25%(of total volume)white sludge + 1/4 cm dark glycerine.
.Fairly clear.
4.7..33% white sludge + 1/2 cm of dark
glycerineFairly clear.
5.2..50% white sludge + 1 cm of dark
glycerine...Murky
5.7..(settled washed and dried prior to standing [impatient],
.crystal clear stable product
6.3..gelatinous flock + whitish slurry
6.8..gelatinous flock + whitish slurry (less than for
6.3).Murky
7.3..gelatinous
flock...
...murky
7.8.50% flock + some dark liquid on
bottom..fairly clear.
8.3.33% flock + slight ammount of dark liquid on
bottom.fairly clear.


Bubble Washing.
Wash vessel, 2l cylindrical separating funnel,95mm diameter, wash water
temp 26 deg C (ambient) ww pH 8, BD washed with equal

Re: [biofuel] aqueous conc NaOH.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Dave Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
 What is the trick to making Biodiesel from WVO/WAF?  I've made it with WVO
 but when I tried WVO/WAF (using the same procedure) I ended up with a jug
of
 jello.
Dave try high levels of NaOH and Methanol, even higher than indicated by the
titration. Say test batches using 8g/25% and up.
 Regards
 Paul Gobert.
  www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp?MemberID=517.



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Re: [biofuel] aqueous conc NaOH.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Manolo Rolan [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 that is a very good idea paul, but you don't have problems with soap
 formation because of the water on the solution?

No problems with the small ammount of water in the conc solution Manolo.
Most of my BD problems relate to beef tallow content of wvo/waf.
I have found that any soap formed dissolves in the wash water. Foaming of
the wash water is usually due to too low a level of NaOH used.  The
titration will indicate the correct ammount of NaOH to give maximum yield.
Increasing ammounts of NaOH lower the yield but produce a BD which washes
easier, has a lower SG and a lower viscosity. 25% methanol and 8 to 9ml of
conc NaOH  per litre copes well with beef tallow.
Regards

 Paul Gobert.

 www.ozimages.com.au/profile.asp?MemberID=517.




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Re: [biofuel] Temp of BD reaction.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Shawn Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:46 AM
Subject: [biofuel] About to attempt first BD batch in lab


 r. Is it ok to start the reaction at a higher initial temp, in attempts to
 maintain a higher average temp? If so, what is the highest temp the oil
can
 safely be at before adding the methoxide?


Shawn, unless you process in an enclosed system with/without added pressure
or use a reflux system, the reaction temp is limited to the boiling point of
methanol.
55 deg C is the temp usually used.

regards   Paul.


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[biofuel] Analytical methods for BD...

[Paul Gobert]

Shawn, a good site  for information on analysing BD is
http://koal.cop.fi//leonardo/leonardo.htm .
It is a university site with the theme of Teaching Chemistry by Vegetable
Oil Theme.

Regards   Paul Gobert.


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Tobacco Funds used for projects

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Keith, not mentioned in the article were the grants ear marked for the
 Kentucky Poultry Growers Cooperative to engineer and install sawdust fired
 boilers to provide hot water heat for the chicken houses.  The idea is to
 compete with the cost of natural gas and propane.  An 8 house complex cost
 about $100,000 to heat last winter.  If the sawdust fired system was in
place
 instead of natural gas the cost would have been about $30,000 including
the
 debt on the new system.

Cornelius  reminds me of the brickyard again. They used to make low temp
insulating bricks from a mixture of clay and sawdust. The idea being that
when fired the sawdust would decompose leaving air pockets in the brick.
Good insulation properties. Trouble was that the destruction of the sawdust
inside the kiln produced a rather noxious brew of smoke. Local dairy farmers
claimed that it was putting their cows off the milk. Company substituted
small hollow polly bubbles for the sawdust, cows went back to giving milk.

Hope the sawdust burning chook warmers produce less polution.

RegardsPaul


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Re: [biofuel] Different Grades of Ethanol and Classification.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: [biofuel] Different Grades of Ethanol and Classification.

 What are different grades based on concentration like

 1. Industrial Grade
 2. Fuel Grade
 3. Analytical Reagent grade.
 4. USP/BP grade

 How they are categorized and what basis? Do they based on
 concentration.

 Is there anything special about USP/BP grade ethanol?

Kazi just to add to the excellent information that has already been provided
by k5farms.

Chemical reagents and base chemicals are classified by purity and
suitability for use.

Analytical Reagents are the purest and are used for chemical analysis.
Purity conforms to or exceeds American Chemical Society standards. These are
the purest and most expensive reagents .

General Purpose Reagents are suitable for laboratory use. They usually
conform to us Pharmacopoeia (USP) or British Pharmacopoeia which set
standards of purity for medical use. These chemicals are high quality raw
materials for food, pharmaceutical and other industrial processes.

Technical Grade Chemicals do not have a specification and are suitable for
industrial and commercial use. They are still of high quality but much more
reasonably priced and certainly suitable for uses such as BD production.

Different manufacturers have different trade names for each grade and
sometimes have intermediate grades.

In Australia 100% denatured Ethyl Alcohol (ethanol) is available for open
purchase. Because it is denatured it is not subject to excise and no customs
permit or ledger is required for its purchase.

The denaturant renders it unsuitable for human consumption but does not
interfere with its laboratory use in most cases. Ajax brand Ethyl Alcohol is
marked:
Ethyl Alcohol, 100% denatured, (ethanol content 99.7% minimum, Absolute
Alcohol, Industrial Mineralised Spirit, UN 1170.
Denaturants: Denatonium benzoate 0.00066%, Fluorescein 0.0001%, Methyl
isobutyl ketone 0.25%.

Makes great BD but a bit pricey.  Methanol Straight from BP is a better
proposition pricewise.

RegardsPaul.



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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel from WCSO.

[Paul Gobert]

Keith and all,
Washing.
Have reduced Glacial acetic acid level  to 1/2 ml per Litre of BD. Bubble
wash working well.
BD as produced pH 6 ( Filtered WCSO 6g/L NaOH, 15% Methanol) Equal volumes
of wash water and BD.
Three washes approx 15 min, 1 litre of BD washed at a time in tall
cylindrical separating funnel. (great for draining off the wash water).
First wash water at end of wash pH 3.5, second wash water, pH 3.5, third
wash water at finish 7.0. First and second washes see no foaming at surface
but oil globules persist right down to the level of air stone. Third wash
sees the globules extending no lower than 2/3 of total volume.
Washed product has pH of 5. When dried and filtered the pH is still 5.

Methanol Content
Trialed two batches from filtered WCSO varying methanol content.
Batch 1/. 6g/Litre NaOH, 10% methanol gave no glycerol separation and
resulted in a thick gelatinous mass.
My normal mix of 6g/Litre, 15% methanol gives clear BD above an indistinct
gelatinous deposit with about 90% yield of BD.
Batch 2/. 6g/Litre NaOH, 20% methanol. Great result good glycerine
separation just like I was getting using 3.5g/Litre NaOH, 15% methanol.
Clear BD and a dark brown mobile layer of glycerine.

Looks like I have been a bit stingy with the methanol. The extra 5% above
the 15%  would appear to give better yield of BD with much easier
separation. The glycerol looks usable insteady of a murky mess.
Revisited the literature downloaded from journey to forever website and may
up rate to 25% and use two stages as Aleks suggests. With a clean glycerine
drop recovery of methanol could tip the ballance in favour of high methanol
usage.

KFC oil/fat.
Just for variety tried making some BD from the colonel's best. The solid
oil/fat? they cook the chips in.
Apparently the chip cooking and chicken cooking are separated. First time I
have used solid feedstock.
Results look good so far and that was with 6g/L,15%.

Utilisation.
Another 4L into the Toyota today. Could have been the cold weather this
morning but it felt like it was going better than ever. Perhaps the moderate
level of BD used has started to clean out pump and injectors.
No glug in disposable fuel filter yet.

Projects.
On his site Aleks suggests 25% methanol and two stage processing removes the
harmful components in feed stock. Will try this and compare yield, SG,
viscosity with previous batches. Could produce a fuel with better calorific
value as well.

Regards   Paul.



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Re: [biofuel] Washing Biodiesel.

[Paul Gobert]

I have solved the wash problems that plagued my BD production.
Previous attempts at washing using the bubble wash technique proved
disasterous with froth  and emulsion formation. Usually half the BD ended up
overflowing the container.
Tried using a gentler wash setup on small scale allowing water droplets to
fall through the BD. This was more successful , but there was still a
problem with the water/oil globules persisting and slowing the process.
First wash with 10% vinegar helped but the flow rate had to be watched.
Decided that if I was going to use vinegar the cheapest way would be to
prepare it from glacial acetic acid (conc acetic acid). Vinegar is 10%
acetic acid. Acetic acid and BD mix well so I mixed the glacial acetic acid
into the BD prior to washing. The result was better than I could have hoped
for. No froth or emulsion, wash rate up to maximum flow.
Retried bubble wash technique with equally successful results. Have droped
level of glacial added from initial 8mls/l of BD (equivalent to ammount used
in 10% vinegar wash) to 4ml and then 2ml. Results still great, anticipate
level could be dropped even further, will investigate.
Don't know the  theory behind it. Thought the vinegar wash was neutralising
residual NaOH in BD but all my recent batches have tested pH 6 and titrated
ever so slightly acid prior to washing.
Have added about 15L of washed , dried and filtered BD to tank of Toyota so
far with no problems.
More to come.
Regards Paul.


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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel from WCSO.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Paul, you're using Aleks's two-stage acid-base process, aren't you?

Keith and all,
am using single stage alkali and have settled on 6g/l NaOH, 15% methanol,
feedstock waste cottenseed oil (WCSO).
Have tried Aleks's two-stage acid-base process, two stage base process, Mike
Pelly's methods etc.
The WCSO I have access to is contaminated with beef tallow from the
partcooked chips. The tallow gives the oil a thick whitish appearance. It
tends to settle over time and can be decanted or filtered out to a clear
golden oil.
Processing this oil filtered or unfiltered using the optimum ammount of NaOH
determined by titration or by Aleks's two-stage acid base process gives a
clear golden BD above a well defined dark brown glycerine layer.  55 deg C
process temp and 15min vigorous stirring. Upon settling the glycerine can be
seen precipitating.
After 24hrs standing whether decanted or still sitting on glycerine the
problem starts. Whitish deposits start forming and after about 48hrs  1/8 of
the volume consists of a white flock like deposit. The deposit can be
filtered out but it continues to form in the clear liquid. Washing does not
prevent the formation of this gunk. Definately not stable fuel. Had me
baffled until I discovered the beef tallow content.
Processing using 6g/l single stage has solved the tallow problem , BD now
stable and clear. Yield is less than for optimum ammount of NaOH. Glycerol
deposit is no longer clear brown but is whitish, multilayered with no
distinct interface and of greater volume.
Make some trial batches using 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5 and 6g/l NaOH-15%methanol.
Surprisingly they all came out pH 6, yield of BD dropped as NaOH increased.
Increasing NaOH component reduced both specific gravity and viscosity of the
BD, possibly more suitable as fuel. Will post figures when I have comparison
tests for dinodiesel etc.

I am in agreement with the philosophy of taking biodiesel to the people
instead of big business, so many advantages.
Although I love technology I want to simplify my batch processing as much as
possible.
Having solved the wash problem I am now ready to start producing at a larger
scale.
WCSO is obtained in 20L drums. Plan to process in drum, settle,
decant/filter into wash vessel (old hotwater tank from slow combustion
stove), bubble wash, heat to 60 deg C, drain water, filter, no storage
straight into vehicle tank(fortunately 130L capacity).

Comments and questions welcomed,
Regards Paul.




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Re: [biofuel] Africar et al

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: John [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Africar et al


 Holden is the name of the engine manufacturer, a sister to the GM empire
in
 USA.
 Seeing Daewoo was bailed out of trouble by GM, not surprising that the
 Holden engine ended up in its chassis..

 John in Australia

Sounds right to me John. My father has one of the first model Daewoo Celino
(?) to come to Australia.
He is an old Holden and Ford man from way back but thinks the world of this
little car. Reliable, economical etc. Drove it briefly, not for long enough
or hard enough to sort it out but seemed to ride well. (anything would ride
well when my usual mode of transport is a 4WD Hilux with extra leaves in the
springs).
Dad is 86 and has just driven up from Newcastle to visit us and back again.
Round trip of more than 4,000km.
Regards  Paul.



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Isopropyl alcohol

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Aleksander lt;kac [EMAIL PROTECTED]
vfd
  What are the problems to be encountered when using isopropanol?
 Acid based reactions work with all alcohols, base catalyzed reactions
 seem to be picky.

Aleks,
out of curiosity I had a go at trying to make Bd from cottenseed oil using
isopropyl alcohol.
Very hard to dissolve NaOH, would KOH dissolve better. Had to almost boil
the isopropyl before NaOH would dissolve. On cooling the mixture solidified.
Tried using conc aqueous solution of NaOH but as it was poured into
isopropanol it the NaOH precipitated out.
Reheated initial solidified mix to liquify and added to WCSO at 80 deg C.
Viscosity instantly increased and vigorous stirring for ten minutes gave no
decrease in viscosity. As you say acid method might be better.
Best of luck with your project.  Using Isopropyl alcohol would be a lot
safer than methanol.

Regards,   Paul.


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Isopropyl alcohol

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Aleksander lt;kac [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 If I will be able to make isoprop esters the  usual way, then lipase is
also no issue anymore to me.
 Aleks

Aleks,
 I am indebted to you for the invaluable information that you have gathered
and shared with everyone.

Can you tell me what advantages BD made using higher alcohols (eg
isopropanol) would have over BD made using methanol or ethanol?

Is isopropanol any cheaper than either methanol or ethanol?

What are the problems to be encountered when using isopropanol?

Regards,   Paul



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Re: [biofuel] Greetings

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Garry Learmonth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
am interested to find out if there are any members well not only within
Australia but maybe within Queensland

Welcome Garry, I am located to the north of you, inland from Cairns.

regards  Paul.


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Re: [biofuel] drying naoh

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Dick Carlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 how to dry naoh, 
(hows that for a snip Dick?)
Dick,
Are you wanting to dry NaOH that has absorbed water or wanting to produce
dry NaOH from a solution?
RegardsPaul


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Re: [biofuel] WCSOil problem solved.

[Paul Gobert]

As mentioned before have been having problems with consistency and final
results when making BD from waste cotton seed oil (WCSO).
The problems include:
-white flock-like material separating from the BD after 24 hr or so
standing.
-cloudy BD.
-BD setting to a clear jelly,
-gelatinous layer either above or mixed with glycerine (usually when
higher than indicated levels of NaOH used).

The WCSO as supplied is a murky whitish viscous mix but still liquid.
Heating produces a clear brownish liquid of much lower viscosity which
returns to the preheated state some time after cooling to room temp (usually
20 deg C or so). This is the feed stock that I was using.

Allowing the WCSO to settle for a week or so produced a clear layer above a
murky layer.
Processing the clear layer gave no problems whatsoever.
Cold filtering ( room temp) the WCSO through a filter paper produced a clear
filtrate with a whitish  waxy deposit left in the filter paper.

Remember someone in this group posting a warning that beef tallow was hard
to transesterify but didn't relate it to my process, afterall cottenseed oil
was my feed stock.
Spoke to my oil supplier about what could be getting into the oil during
use.
The chips he uses come frozen and are part cooked in,   you guessed it,
beef tallow which then transferes to the cotten seed oil.
Fortunately it cold filters out , so this adds another stage to my
processing.
What a relief consistent clear batches at last. Will get to run the vehicle
on BD afterall.
Live and Lean,

RegardsPaul


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Re: [biofuel] (OT)Bits Falling Off

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Pat McCotter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:40 AM
 (BTW, a year-and-a-half ago I had aneurysm surgery at the base of my
brain.
 I lost an inner ear in the process and still have the hole in my skull
 behind the ear (skin and hair grown over it!) I just returned from my
 longest bicycle ride since then. 23 miles! 4 hours! It's hell learning to
 walk again with one inner ear let alone ride a bike again!)

Thats the spirit. I can relate to your adjustment in a minor way.
Retina of right eye detatched some time ago, too severe for laser to repair.
After a few operations ( interesting those, local anesthetic only) the
specialists are congratulating each other on a fine piece of surgery. The
fact that I am still practically blind in the right eye doesn't detract from
their backslapping. Problems include an inability to focus, distorted image
(hourglass distortion with a missing area in middle) image larger than other
eye and eye points in different direction than other. Its an interesting
world.
What I miss most of all is my closerange three dimensional vision.
Inconvenient for someone who likes tinkering with mechanical things,
constructing electronics projects and photography. Dangerous for someone who
works with chemicals, pouring from one containor to another can be quite
interesting.
Hey but life goes on, its an interesting world, adaptation is the name of
the game, I am very lucky to live in a country where I can not only live
well but still be a useful member of society. Would be very difficult in
some third world countries.

and good on you Pat from scewing the polsters.

Regards Paul,

Live Simple so that Others May Simply Live.



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Re: [biofuel]Drum Pump/WCS oil process problems

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Edward Beggs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] (OT)Bits Falling Off / Chemical dispensing


 Paul and all -

 We have been trying a plastic, hand-operated drum pump the last couple of
 weeks that works well for two things:

  - it easily pumps viscous vegetable oil

  - it comes with an attachment and  measuring bottle that allows the
bottle
 to be fastened directly to the pump via a twist lock to eliminate the
danger
 of dispensing small amounts of chemicals.

Sounds like something I would get a lot of use out of Ed.

At the moment my Waste Cotten Seed Oil (WCS oil ) comes in 20L drums which
are fairly easy to pour from.
Pump could come in handy when filtering oil.
Having problems with my test batches of WCS oil. When using the ammount of
NaOH specified by titration or even when using Alex Foolproof method with
the reduced NaOH in final stages, the oil separates very nicely to clear
golden BD and dark glycerine. Within 24 hours the decanted BD turns cloudy
and a whitish flock like precipitate forms. Filtering the BD removes the
flock but 24 hours later more has formed. Washing and drying makes no
difference. The WCS oil I use is cloudy/murky at room temp (about 20 deg C),
currently I'm trialing a couple of batches of settled oil (clear) and
filtered oil with slightly higher NaOH levels. I've found that higher levels
of NaOH seem to produce flock free BD but the glycerol  deposit
increases in volume and becomes whitish and gelatinous. Not as easy to
dispose of.
Perhaps the WCS oil has picked up something in use, antioxidant levels etc
seem insignificant.

Regards Paul,

Live Simply so that Others can Simply Live.


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[biofuel] Washing Machine Processor.

[Paul Gobert]

Has anyone tried using a washing machine to mix the reactants for Biodeisel?
I was thinking of the type with water heater.
Process
-Heat Cottenseed oil to 50 deg c,
-add methanol/caustic mix,
-use wash cycle to agitate,
-pump into settling vessel.

Anticipated problems,
-compatibility of seals with meth/Bio ,
-explosion potential (probably best to remove casing etc from machine or
fit airtight cover over bowl)
-most washing machines do not pump out completely.
-and most important divorce potential if I look sideways at the
Kleenmaid.

Regards Paul

Live simply so that others can simply live.


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Re: [biofuel] Logical Actions...

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Let's do what is logical, sensible, and cost effective, with
 an eye on developing new things to continue the process.

Couldn't agree more E.J.

As I see it we are up against three popular philosophies/diciplins which
defy/destroy logical thinking and actions.

Economics, Politics and Religion.


Function Before Form
 Regards  Paul



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Re: [biofuel] Diesel history

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: F. Marc de Piolenc [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Diesel's original plan was to use powdered coal. Liquid fuels
 were first used in compression-ignition engines in France by Capitaine,
 but the engines have always been called Diesel nonetheless. Peanut
 oil, indeed! Where do they get this stuff?

With you there Marc, seem to remember that Deisel was commissioned by German
Coal Board to develop an engine that would run on powdered coal. Guess it
just ran better on other things.

Regards   Paul.


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Re: [biofuel] Pressure + Snipping

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Dick Carlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 our  lc 400 one stage plants maintain 50 celisius and 2 bar during mixing
 and settling.

Dick do you notice any difference in reaction rate with the pressure
applied?
Considering pressure cookers, autoclaves etc the aim seems to be to get the
temperature higher than heating at atmospheric pressure would allow. ie
boiling limits max temp. 15 psi with aqueous loads usually gives 121C.
Every ten degree C temperature rise doubles the reaction rate.
2 bar should enable a higher temp/faster reaction rate as the methanol would
have a higher boiling point under pressure. Using 50C are you gaining any
advantage from the pressure?


Now for a subject close to your heart and a timesaver for everyone.
Snipping.  The term has me confused.
 I usually highlight and delete non-relevant parts (perhaps I am cutting out
too much).
Is that the same as Snipping or is it another technique altogether?

Snippers unite.

Paul.




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Re: [biofuel]Low S diesel/Biodiesel.......

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

James,


 Why?
  If these components fail their repair through the above process
 should ensure that they are ready for BD.
 Sorry, don't follow.

The fuel companies require written evidence of fuel purchase. If you can't
provide this (ie have been using BD or a high proportion of BD) you could
have problems convincing them that it was their fuel that caused the problem
and not the BD.
The suggestion to temporarily hold off on BD usage if you haven't started
was a subtle way of saying,If you are going to have to renew the
gaskets/O-rings in the injector pump for BD use why not let someone else pay
for it?

 Ref rubber parts in a diesel engine fuel line, I was talking to a
 motor engineer today who said that rubber isn't used on diesel
 engines as petro diesel attacks rubber.
 Is this the case?

Sorry i was generalising here. Was refering to the materials used for fuel
line links etc, though they are not rubber they could be made of material
susceptible to damage by low sulphur or BD.

Thanks for the interest,
 Paul



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[biofuel] Peugeot / Off Topic

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 My Peugeot 404 was better off-road than most of the 4x4
 toys I see around these days. I once swapped it with a friend for a
 few days because I needed his pickup, and when we reswapped he said:
 Don't you ever have to put fuel in that thing? Great long-distance
 car.
  Memories, memories, but then I am a Peugeot fanatic. 
As they say Engineered to be Enjoyed.
Cars designed by Engineers with drivers in mind. 
Not lumps of metal designed by bean counters for road users.

Regards,  Paul.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] cottonseed oil

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Dick Carlstein [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [biofuel] jathropa oil / castor oil / tung oil / cottonseed oil


Dick over the past few months I have been making small batches of BD from
used cottenseed oil (largest batch so far 4L).
Forms ester readily.  Have been having some problems with gelling of
finished product (polymerising?) and difficulty in washing. It would appear
to be a good feedstock,easy to handle-liquid at room temp.
Perhaps the virgin oil would process in a similar fashion or better.

Regards   Paul.


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Re: [biofuel] Methanol _Storage regulations Sydney Aust.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Barryt [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Are you aware of any storage limitation in suburban Sydney?
 regards Barryt

Barry its some twenty or so years since I lived in Sydney so I can't help
you there. Moved to far north Queensland many years ago to escaped the
rat-race. Paradise up here, no place to get rich but great lifestyle.
Suggest you contact your local council, fire brigade,dangerous goods office
etc.

Regards   Paul.


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Re: [biofuel] Methanol Availability - Australia

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Barryt [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I live on the northern beaches of Sydney.  Does anyone in the group have
some methanol locations that would suit me.

Try BP (Australia) they market the methanol I am using.

BP Methanol Straight.

Available in 20L and 200L drums,

Not sure of current price but  about $200.00 per 200L drum I think.

Regards Paul



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Re: [biofuel] Cotton seed oil.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I was asked today why there was a ban on feeding cotton meal and oil
 to stock (the Japanese found residual pesticide in Australian beef)
 but the oil was recommended for human cooking.  Does anyone know how or
if the contaminants can be removed?

Harry the cottenseed oil that I process comes from 2 sources.
ETA Food Services Cottenseed Oil, Ingredients, Cottenseed Oil, Antioxidant
(319) 0.01%, Antifoam (900)
and Formula 40 from Peerless Holdings.
Depends upon which source local fish and chip shop buys from.
Was going to lubch on fish and chips tomorrow but now you have me worried
with that residue bit.
Might quiz the suppliers.

 I'm in the midst of my first cotton seed batch.
 Some one asked about using the centrifuge for testing purity. I do
 intend to test some product by adding more alcohol and lye to a
 sample and seperating the glycerol with the centrifuge but I'm
 waiting for some proper centifuge tubes.

Might be able to help you out there Harry. Seem to have a glut of glass
graduated centrifuge tubes, 15mml capacity. Contact me via my email address
and we will see if they will fit your centrifuge.

Ran a test using the centrifuge today with the aim of determining yield vs
mixing time.
1L beaker,500ml Cottenseed oil 55 deg C, 3g NaOH dissolved in 200ml
methanol, hotplate stirrer (temp maintained 55 deg C), 5cm spin bar, fastest
speed spin bar would take (dimple on oil surface but no vortex).
15ml sample extracted every 15min, centrifuged and ammount of glycerine
deposit read.
On addition of methanol extra stirring was given to ensure mixing.
Oil/methanol mix murky at first but after 10-15 min stirring cleared and
liquid had esterlike smell.
Results were inconclusive. 15ml gave 1.6ml deposit after 15min reaction.
This remained fairly constant up till the 1 hour mark where it climbed to
1.8ml. However it dropped back after that. The centrifuge tube was being
filled with a 10ml graduated pipette. First fill OK, sucked up dumped
straight in. Top up to 15 ml mark involved refilling pipette and draining
pipette slowly till 15ml mark was reached.  Noticed during the latter stages
of this test that the glycerine was actually settling out in the pipette as
it was slowly drained, thereby enriching the test sample.
Will make two batches, stir one for 15min only the other for two hours, let
them settle overnight and then test for completemess of reaction by adding
more methoxide,mix,cenrtifuge.
I was ammazed at how quickly the glycerine separates out. Just allowing it
to stand in the tube without centrifuging gave a deposit of 1.45ml (granted
not as pure) after 20 minutes.
Depending upon results will increase NaOH ammount, but suspect 6g/L is near
optimum for this oil as last time I tried increased ammounts  ended up with
whitish gel amongst the glycerine. Would prefer to er on low side than have
to deal with that stuff on a larger scale. I view of rapid settling of
glycerine am looking at drawing it off early in process, washing on
remaining glycerine(Idaho 20-20-20 technique) and heat drying.
If I can get the washing side worked out this cottenseed looks to be a good
feedstock for BD production.

Any suggestions anyone?

Regards   Paul.


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Re: [biofuel] Cotton seed oil.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message - 
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Does anyone know how or if the contaminants can be removed?
 
 It's called gossypol, a toxin, and also currently under research as a 
 possible male contraceptive. Cottonseed oil used for cooking must've 
 been detoxified.
 
 Keith Addison

Thanks Keith, you are a mine of information.

Regards Paul.


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[biofuel] RETRACTION.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Paul Gobert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RETRACTION
 At best the reaction conditions we are using convert only a fraction of
the
 WVO to ester.
 ( Configure the ammount of methanol into the equation for the reaction and
 you will see what I mean).
 The reaction involves equilibrium and as with a lot of organic chemistry
 reactions is not as straightforward as an inorganic reaction. So we can't
 just add more methanol and expect more ester.
 Quite a lot of the WVO is unreacted and intact after processing.
 Transesterification produces less complex chemicals of lower viscosity and
 with better burning properties. They mix with the remaining WVO to produce
a
 liquid which is more suitable for use as a diesel fuel than was the
original
 WVO.
 Enough of my ravings for now.

Sorry folks, have revisited equation and as Todd says there is more than
enough methanol for full reaction.
Somehow got tied up with volumes of reactants instead of moles. Not good for
a chemistry inclined person.
The making of BD can be tricky enough without unsubstantiated comments such
as the above.
My appologies,  Paul




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Re: [biofuel] Re: BD Production

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I use a 2.5litre conical flask with a watch glass on top and a hot
 plate stirrer. I heat gently with a small stirring bug. The methanol
 tends to refux in the flask (neck stays cool). 2 litres with 140gms
 NaOH took about 5 minutes to dissolve this afternoon.

Sounds good Harry. I'm envious of that 2.5L flask.
Whilst i am able to use laboratory and gear for small scale test batches I
will be on my own when producing for my own use so will have to improvise my
own equipment.

Some interesting postings lately. May follow the lead of (sorry, can't
remember who said they were using centrifuge to test) and try centrifuge to
monitor efficiency of BD production by volume of glycerine produced.

regards   Paul


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Re: [biofuel] Other uses for biodiesel

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Today I compared the viscosity of two samples of BD with three oils
 that I have used as damping fluid in the forks of my race-bike. To
 empty a 5ml pippet took:
 BD1-8sec
 BD2-9secs
 2.5wt oil---17sec
 5wt oil 34sec

Nice simple test. Harry was it a graduated pipette or a bulb pipette? If the
latter what grade?

At the school where I work we have tried various setups for the students to
get an idea of viscosity.
Pouring oil into thistle funnels with capillary tubes attached to the base
worked but was extremely messy.
(a lot of muck for you know who to clean up). Oil and marbles sealed in
testtubes seemed to work, but there was some variation in diameters of
testtubes and marbles amongst the sets. Latest concoction that I have
devised is 100ml plastic bottle, short length of capillary tube silasticed
into base, rubber tubing onto capillary, glass drain tube fitted to other
end of rubber tubing. A laboratory clamp is tightened over the rubber tube
and a measured volume of oil is added to the plastic bottle. In use the cap
is removed from the bottle, the setup is supported by a retort stand, a
beaker is positioned under the drain tube and the clamp released. the
student times how long the oil takes to flow into the beaker. Oil is then
returned to bottle. Student then repeats expt with another aparatus
containing oil of different viscosity.  We have struck problems when
introducing temperature into the experiment because of the difficulty in
obtaining monograde oils. When I get the Pug on the road it will need a
supply of 30 grade gearbox oil so that will come in handy for this expt.

Regards Paul


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Re: [biofuel] Bio Diesel from coconut oil

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message - 
From: Hanns B. Wetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Here is a process that produced bio diesel which was carried out in the
 Philippines as a prototype in 1991. 

Great post Hanns. Good description with plenty of useful information.
Did the process get beyond the prototype stage? 

Regards  Paul.



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Re: [biofuel] titration ph question

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Burnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] titration ph question


 I have had the same problems with titration. My digital PH meter
 (i have 2 now) have both been calibrated with a 7 and 10 solution.
 My Solution of 1gm caustic and 1000ml distilled H2O has a PH of
 12.2.
 Why don't we just measure the PH of the WVO directly with digital
 PH meters?

Burnett as others have explained pH meters only give reliable readings in
ionic solutions and WVO is not usually ionic.
The pH value is an indication of hydrogen ion or hydroxide ion content of a
material.
Measuring the pH of water with a pH meter is difficult, you will notice that
the meter takes a long time to stabilise if it does at all.
As Todd has suggested pH papers would be more suitable. They offer a more
reliable, simpler and less expensive method. High tech they may not be but
they work. They made from a mixture of indicators impregnated into paper
strips. Can be purchased on reels in various ranges ie 6-8 or 8-10 etc.
Universal indicator solution is also useful. Again it is a mixture of
indicators. Another use for it is testing the pH of soils etc. Barium
sulphate is spread over the surface of the soil, universal indicator added
and the soil pH determined by matching the colour tinge of the barium
sulphate to the colour chart.

Regards   Paul
Various pH ranges are available



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Re: [biofuel] BD Production

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Martin R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I don't know how my bio diesel should look like when it is the finished
 product  should it be clear or is cloudy ok ???
Martin it should be crystal clear.
My experience was initially with unused safflower oil and more recently with
used cottenseed oil, largest test batch 4L, so I can only speak from these
experiences

 and why use Isopropyl alcohol in the titration why not just use methanol
 instead ??
Isopropyl alcohol unlike methanol or ethanol is neutral and will not
interfere with the titration.

 when it comes to mixing the methanol and caustic soda (C/S) what is a good
 way to mix it so that all the C/S is being mixed completely in with the
 methanol mixture
Dissolving the NaOH in the methanol has proven difficult and time consuming.
My current method is to prepare a concentrated aqueous solution of NaOH.
100g of NaOH will dissolve in 90ml of H2O giving about 150ml of conc NaOH.
This stock solution can be stored (in plastic not glass) and added to the
methanol when required. Would advise caution when mixing.
Comparison tests have indicated that the small ammount of water introduced
in the NaOH solution have a negligible effect.

 and let it sit over night the water turned white from the methanol and the
 top layer was still like honey but not clear at all is this normal?? and
is
 it usable in that state .
Lack of clarity could be due to water suspended in BD. Most of the batches
of BD that I have washed end up this way. Heating the BD (to say 130 deg C)
removes residual water and the BD will cool to a crystal clear liquid.

 do you wash your B/D ??? from all the sites on-line that I have read some
 tell you to wash it others don't ,
Lot of debate on this one. My aim is to simplify the process as much as
possible but a washing stage will be included in the final rig.

some tell you to heat the WVO
 The cottenseed oil that I use has proven to be water free. At room
temperature it is a murky whitish liquid. Batches of BD made using cold oil
straight from the drum resulted in about 30% gelatinous deposit. Thinking
that the oil might have had water in it I heated some oil to 130 deg C, and
let it cool to 20 deg C. When heated the oil cleared to a golden brown
liquid and remained in that state when cooled. Processing this oil following
the method used for the unheated oil gave excellent results with a dark
layer of glycerine and no gel.
During the heating the oil gave no indication that it contained water. Don't
know whats going on here but intend to heat oil in future.

RegardsPaul.


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Re: [biofuel] titration ph question

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: ian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:14 AM
Subject: [biofuel] titration ph question


 Hi all.
 Well, I thought I'd have a play about with learning titration.

Ian, pH meters have their uses but determining the endpoint of a titration
of this nature is not one of them.
Would suggest you go back to use of phenolphthalein indicator to determine
appropriate endpoint.
If you make up your own phenolphthalein soln don't forget to neutralise it
after preparation as the ethanol used is acidic and will effect the end
result.
From memory a 1% solution is prepared by dissolving .1g of phenolphthalein
in 85 mls denatured ethanol, then build volume up to 100ml with distilled
water and add dilute NaOH solution with stirring until the phenolphthalein
solution shows the faintest pink tinge.

Regards   Paul



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Re: [biofuel] Residual oil in BD.

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
 How much unprocessed oil are other experimenters finding in the final
 product and how much is too much?
 Regards from Harry

Good question Harry.
All efforts seem to be towards producing as much ester from the WVO as
possible.
At best the reaction conditions we are using convert only a fraction of the
WVO to ester.
( Configure the ammount of methanol into the equation for the reaction and
you will see what I mean).
The reaction involves equilibrium and as with a lot of organic chemistry
reactions is not as straightforward as an inorganic reaction. So we can't
just add more methanol and expect more ester.
Quite a lot of the WVO is unreacted and intact after processing.
Transesterification produces less complex chemicals of lower viscosity and
with better burning properties. They mix with the remaining WVO to produce a
liquid which is more suitable for use as a diesel fuel than was the original
WVO.

Should we aim for the absolute maximum yield of esters? Or is this
complicating the process too much and inviting problems. Could for instance
WVO that is liquid at say 20 deg C be processed to a lesser extent than WVO
which is solid at that temp and still be suitable? This would save
processing time and cost (less methanol).

Enough of my ravings for now.
What does everyone else think?

Regards,   Paul




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[biofuel] Washing BD

[Paul Gobert]

On Fri, 1 Jun 2001, Paul Gobert wrote:


 - Original Message -
 From: James Burke [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Hi Paul,
 
  I read your plans for the bubble wash alternative.
  I hope I'm wrong, but the windshield washer pump may
  overheat if run continuously.

 Jim,
 Agree with you there Jim, as a windscreen washer pump they are probably
 overrun, ie fed more voltage than they would be for continuous
running.This
 is only a test rig. The pump is a sturdy unit from a pug 504, good solid
 electrics. It  was powered from a variable power supply. Draw was from
neck
 of bottle( bottle inverted)delivery to flat end of bottle. Origional base
 cut off perforated and reinserted upside down to form cup to receive
 delivery. Bottle was 1.25L and 5 volts to the motor gave optimum flow
rate.
 Increased voltage gave a higher flow rate which produced a buildup of oil
 coated water globules extending into the neck of the bottle. Reducing the
 flow rate allowed these globules to break up at a higher level. Best
results
 were obtained when the bottle was full so that the droplets of wash water
 entered the oil layer with very little fall/force. On large scale I may
use
 a diffuser which will float on the BD layer.
 Some emulsification still occured. This could have been due to soap or
 glycerine in the raw BD. Either this will have to be regarded as waste or
I
 will reduce the NaOH to just below optimum to ensure that no soap builds
up.
 Indications are that the Raw BD should be washed as soon as possible after
 transesterification/glycerine removal. In line with my plan to reduce
input
 of time/energy/equipment for BD production I intend to draw off the
 glycerine/soap as soon as it settles, something which I haven,t been able
to
 try in my 500ml beaker test batches.
 Regards,  Paul



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Re: [biofuel] Bio washing

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: David Teal [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 James wrote:
 I'm thinking of tapping off from the base of the washing vessel and
 pumping the water / bio back into the top of the vessel via a
 domestic shower head. Has anyone tried this?

Plan on using this method have tried it out on pilot plant. (1.25l softdrink
bottle, windscreen washer pump in neck, base cut off perforated and inserted
back to front. Works well, flow rate controlled by voltage fed to pump. 4V
gave best compromise between highest flow and breakup of globules. Best
results when there was minimum fall from diffuser into oil.

  David T wrote:
 I think this is a good idea, though I have not tried it.  Water here is
 'hard' and foaming is not a problem with bubble wash

The water on the Ath Tablelands is very soft and could well be contributing
to the emulsification problems during wash that I am experiencing with
cottenseed oil BD. Your post has prompted me to try hardening the water with
calcium and magnesium salts,probably chlorides. Could also have the benefit
of knocking out the OH as a precipitate of Ca(OH)2.
Have worked with a Dow Corning product called Antifoam. Considered using it
but not sure where it would end up.

RegardsPaul.



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Re: [biofuel] glycerine as a fuel.....

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Jan Sur—wka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Information for Paul,

 Maybe instead of bothering with glycerine as fuel one could use it as
a...fertilizer .
 I have heard that glycerine after diluting with water can be used a soil
nutrient
 jan
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.ems-energy.pl

Thanks Jan but to do that I would prefer to use KOH so as not to salt up
the garden.
This would also increase the cost of raw materials for the BD. Have made a
few batches using KOH and either ethanol or methanol.
At the moment indications are that I can treat the glycerine and markety it
to local speciality soap makers.
Thus reducing costs.
Thanks,   Paul


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Re: [biofuel] bubble wash alternative

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: ian [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Bubblewashing as i see it can be a pain.
 It works very well, but when it comes to larger batches than 50 litres,
the
 aquarium pump just dosnt do the job.

Alternatives, 1). Antipolution air injection pump from 70's vehicle. Use one
at work to supply air to multiple fish tanks. Good volume low pressure
though, may not like too much of a head. Has carbon vanes very reliable this
one is driven by electric motor and has been running continuously for over a
year.
2). Compressor unit from low pressure spray gun unit (rubber diaphram pump)
Bought one secondhand for under $40.00 gun and all, owner used to pump up
tyres with it occasionally so should have enough pressure.
 The way I see it, fine jets of water from above the oil makes a lot of
 sense.

To reduce posibility of emulsification ( a big problem with the cottenseed
oil I am using) I would suggest large drops instead of a fine mist. To
compensate for reduced area of contact the washing time can be extended.
Obtained a pump from an old Simpson washing machine. Alloy construction and
held together with a clamp so that it can easily be taken apart for
problems/cleaning etc.
About to trial a minature wash setup made from a plastic soft drink bottle
and a windscreen washer pump.
Bottle is inverted,pump inlet jammed into neck, bottom cut off bottle, holes
drilled in it and repositioned in base of bottle. Water from pump is
delivered to this seive.
 If the pump is too strong the water will pool on the surface (not good).
 Dont put a water restrictor inline, this will make the pump pull more
 current costing you
 money.
 Alternatively stick some form of voltage control on the pump ( Bob G, help
 me out here).
Electronics kits and complete units for controling the speed of simple elect
motors are available from electronics stores.

Regards Paul



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Re: [biofuel] Re: bubble wash alternative

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 Why not just use a 5 micron diesel fuel filter to clean up your
 biodiesel?

Sounds nice and simple but I don't think it would remove the water soluble
contaminants that water washing achieves.
Regards Paul



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Re: [biofuel] Re: Reclaiming the methanol

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Gary and Jos Kimlin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Reclaiming the methanol


 Paul my next batch will be with cotton seed oil. I intend to use the
 twostage with KOH rather than NaOH. The best I can do with NaOH seems to
be
 80-85% pure,

Pure reagent grade NaOH can be obtained from chemical supply warehouses.
Various grades of purity (not water content) are available. Analytical grade
is not needed, technical grade is more than suitable.
suspect that leaves too much water to avoid soaps. I'll take
 KOH is $100/25kg and Methanol $30/20l drum.
 Will check up on local prices and advise. Haven't had to buy methanol yet
 friend gave me 2 20L drums) but think that it is about $200.00 Australian
for a 200L drum.

 Any experience using glycerin as a heating fuel?
Afraid not but very interested in same. With winter begining and an aging
slow combustion stove I,m looking for alternatives.
Some interesting postings on this subject over last month or so.
 Regards , Paul


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Re: [biofuel] WVO storage

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
From: Bud  Lois Pitts [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Can anyone tell me how long WVO will store and still be usable for
biodiesel
 and what would be the best storage conditions? Also how long will BD store
 before it becomes contaminate with organisms as petro diesel does?

Have been experimenting with waste cotten seed oil that has been stored in
20L drums for over a month.
During that time the oil has become progressively thicker and more opaque.
In line with my aim to simplify the production of BD by reducing input of
time energy and equipment I have been processing the oil cold straight from
the drum. Result 500ml oil+ 75ml methanol containing 3 grams NaOH gives 350
ml BD + 250ml heavy white sludge. Same oil when heated to 160 deg C
(probably doesn't need to go that high) and cooled back to 20 deg C gives a
clear golden brown oil of lower viscosity. During the heat there was no
indication that water was present. Cold processing this oil gave excellent
results, two layers about 500ml BD and75ml glycerine which separated
rapidly.
Unless I can process the oil as it is drained from the fryers I will heat
the oil before processing. Having heated the oil it can be cooled to 55 deg
C and processed. Ammount of NaOH I have been using is below theoretical
optimum so will try 55 deg processing with increased NaOH.

Regards,   Paul


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Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message - 
  Thanks a whole lot, Steve Spence. I really needed to know that. Got
anything
 for erectile dysfunction; i.e. limp dick?

Try Zoloft (seratalin) a seratonin uptake inhibitor prescribed for
depression.
Interesting side effects short term.
Paul.


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Re: [biofuel] Reclaiming the methanol

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -
 Methanol is extremely soluble but a reflux condenser should give a good
 yield. Beyond that the methods cited for drying ethanol should apply.
 Harry in Oz.

Harry, reflux condensation is in effect a closed system whereby the products
of distillation are returned to the reaction vessel. It is used where the
desired reaction temperature is above the boiling point of the reactant
mixture. Condensor is usually mounted vertically above reaction vessel so
that condensate drains back into reaction vessel.
Paul


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Reclaiming the methanol

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message -

 Treat anything clear as Methanol.
 My first attempt making biod, just sucking in Meth and at a temp of 55oC I
 found at least 250ml of Meth in my liquid trap.
 Be very careful.
 Ian

Ian,
In my trial laboratory scale batches have found that methoxide and SVO
(cottenseed in this case) do not mix readily. Would suggest that the
addition should be at a slow rate or stirring rate increased during the
addition.

Local fish and chip shop recently changed from solid veg oil (Frytol) to
cottenseed oil. About the same time the people collecting SVO decided to
charge for its removal. Owner is happy to give me the oil but I suspect that
he wants some biodiesel in return.

My initial trials were on refined safflower oil and various methods gave
good results.
Cottenseed oil has the advantage of being an oil at room temperature and can
easily be transfered to the reaction vessel.
To reduce variables the oil was first washed and then heated to 160 deg C
15% Methanol and 6.5g/litre NaOH  at 55 deg C produced a heavy gelatinous
deposit of glycerine/soap  which set solid after 24 hours. Would have to be
drained from the vessel much earlier or dug out the next day.
Reduction of the ammount of NaOH produced much less deposit. As low as 3g/L
( below that suggested as required for the reaction with acid free oil) gave
a managable product. Yet to compare the biodiesel from these batches( S.G.
and viscosity) to determine suitability of product.

Foolproof two stage method gave good results with this oi, probably
because of the smaller ammount of NaOH specified.  The product from the two
stage method however turned cloudy after a few weeks forming a whitish
suspension over time and seemingly reverting back to the heavier oil. This
batch had not been washed and I suspect that that could have been the
problem. Other batches washed and heat dried, have remained crystal clear.

Washing the product has presented problems. The cottenseed biodiesel and
reaction products/excess reagents mix tends to emulsify readily with water
forming a whitish flock.
Small scale washing using aquarium pump and stone was out of the question,
too much agitation and emulsion formation.  Most sucessful washing technique
so far involved gentle addition of large water droplets to surface of
biodiesel. Water collecting at bottom of wash vessel is pumped up to top and
sprinkled onto B/D.
Intend to use this system on production vessel. At this point am working
towards using the one vessel for reaction/washing/drying.

Will let you know how things go,
Regards Paul.





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Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL

[Paul Gobert]

David,
 ** If you have replaced the rings it dosnt suprise me that the vehicle
 smokes. What were the rings you used in replacement? Where they genuine
 Toyota rings?

Yes.  Engine was reconditioned by local Toyota Agent at 200,000km.
It was so far gone that I was using 40 grade oil in an effort stop the
running on fumes problem.
My did that oil pump sing on startup. Eventually compression was so low that
it wouldn't start at all.

This vehicle might not be a good candidate for a bypass oil filter at this
stage as you say but I'm restoring a Pug 504 which could benefit from one.
Still undecided whether to fit a petrol or diesel engine to it. Will all
hinge on my success or otherwise with biodiesel production.

Paul.


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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[Paul Gobert]

 veggie oil is used by some racing cars and motorcycles
 i dont know the trade name tho.
 Ian

Used to use Castrol R or Mobil P in the diffs of Peugeot 203,403,404.
These have a brass worm wheel and a steel worm. Required diet was vegetable
oil.
Paul


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Re: [biofuel] Rookie Questions

[Paul Gobert]

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:20 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Rookie Questions


 A couple of questions from a lurker...
 What are some safety concerns which should be addressed when cooking up a 
 batch of biodiesel? I'll start off with a small volume to get a feel for the 
 process; and I'll be doing this in a classroom setting, so your voices of 
 experience will be most helpful.
 Also, I found several how-to websites on making biodiesel, which one is the 
 best?
 And finally, does anyone have experience running cooking oil?
 
 Thanks, 
 Ben

Greetings Ben and everyone else,
This is my first post. Please excuse delay in replying as have been away from 
computer for some time.

The safety issues have been covered by others so I will endevour to help you 
with your other questions.

Websites. A couple specific to classroom situations:
Simple,  http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhendr2/directions/  ( note stage 4 should read 
grams of NaOH not mls)
More advanced,  http://sunsite.anu.edu.au/icase/i_exempl.html

I work as a Scientific Assistant for a High School in north eastern Australia. 
One of the science teachers has asked me to put together a prac for his senior 
chemistry students to undertake when studying organic chemistry. The teacher 
has even offered to supply a Lombardi stationary diesel for testing the product.
Aside from that I am assembling the equipment needed to produce biodiesel to 
fuel my Toyota Hilux Diesel ( 560,000km young).
This discussion group (and related websites) has been a very useful source of 
information.

My laboratory scale trial batches have all used  new safflower oil (sunflower 
oil?)
Heating and stirring has been acheived using a magnetic stirrer hotplate (also 
used to prepare the methoxide).
Reaction vessels have been appropriate sized pyrex beakers.

Batch 1.  (Prompted by a brief overview of the process in a TV news segment, 
hence very basic information.)

titration: 10 drops of 0.1% NaOH for 1ml of new oil.
SG  of unprocessed safflower oil  0.9225

500ml oil +100ml ethanol
7gram NaOH dissolved in 25ml water  (bad move)
Stirred at room temp for  15 minutes
Settle overnight.

Results, product had an aromatic smell

Washing, (added 200ml water) using fishtank stone + air supply (one of many 
feedlines from Toyota antipolution air pump driven by electric motor) resulted 
in a lot of froathing and contents of beaker went down the drain.
Perhaps air flow was too vigorous but I suspect that the use of water to 
dissolve the NaOH produced a lot of soap which froathed up).

Batch 2,
 Same oil,same acidity,SG.
Two stage Acid/alkali method used.  (Aleks  Kac
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html  )
500ml oil  at 55 degrees C +50ml methanol, mixed for 5 min them 0.5ml conc 
H2SO4 added very slowly to avoid localised charing of oil.Further mixing and 
maintaining temp for 1.5 hours.  About 50ml of glycerol deposited upon standing 
overnight.

Clear upper layer decanted from glycerol. heated to 55 deg C, 50 ml methoxide 
added ( 3.1grams of NaOH dissolved in 50 ml methanol) mixed for 5 minutes, 
settled overnight. 
Above process repeated. 
Dark brown deposit formed which settled to bottom of beaker rapidly once 
stirring ceased.

Final SG  0.8858,  aromatic smell.

Batch 3.
same process as batch 2   SG 0.934   (temperature got away from me a bit on 
this one, could have evaporated off some of the methanol.  700ml oil yields 
600ml BD

Retreated with 6.1g/Litre NaOH in 100ml/Litre methanol. 50-60 degree C
SG 0.8756   A lot of heavy dark brown deposit which settled before eyes, 
soaplike film on surface of BD
volume of BD down to 500ml.

Retreated again with same ratio methoxide same temp.
formed heavy whitish, gelatinous mass.  No free oil. Reaction products disposed 
of.

Most of these investigations involved the use of a fume cupboard but the 
exhaust fan was not turned on.
I anticipate that students could perform the simpler procedure in a well 
ventilated laboratory. Watch glasses could be placed over beakers to minumise 
evaporation. Hot-plate stirrers would be preferable to bunsens and stirring 
rods to reduce risk of fire.

I am in the fortunate position of having access to laboratory equipment as 
basic as it may be. 
If anyone has any suggestions as to directions which my investigations could 
procede please let me know.

Regards,
Paul  (squarepeg)





 


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