Re: t-and-f: Lane Assignment and Reaction Time
Interesting, to say the least. It makes sense on one hand, but then why do the typical overall results not mirror that pattern? Rarely do you see the inside to outside lanes go fast-to-slow. The implication is that reaction time has little to do with overall finish. I could see the 200m being a bit different, where the starter is more toward the center of the pack on the turn, but the research addresses the straight laned races... Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / --- On Sat, 6/21/08, Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Lane Assignment and Reaction Time To: t-and-f@lists.uoregon.edu Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 4:13 AM Today's edition of the Vancouver edition of Globe and Mail includes an article that's interesting, but without enough information to know how well-founded is that interest. It describes a study undertaken at the University of Alberta in which researchers examined reaction times for the 100m sprint and 110m hurdles at the 2004 Olympic Games and found that runners in the lanes closest to the starting pistol had significantly faster reaction times than those in lanes farther away. This effect was said to be especially strong for runners in lane one. Unfortunately, the dimension of this difference is not given in this report, so whether it would affect an individual's measured time in these events cannot be determined. The article says that a report on the research, by Dave Collins and Alex Brown, is published in the June issue of Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. If any of our subscribers has access to this journal, perhaps she or he can fill us in on the over-all effect of this difference in reaction times.
Re: t-and-f: Lane Assignment and Reaction Time (much ado bout nuthin)
From: Jorma Kurry [EMAIL PROTECTED] is there a reason why the starter could not stand behind the runners in the straightaway races at that level? Just venturing a guess... Sounds are more difficult to localize and identify when they come from behind, if I remember correctly. That uncertainty might create more jumps. Also, the starter has to wait for everyone to be still, and that's much more difficult to determine from behind. It would probably require a change of duties for the starting crew. Dan
Re: t-and-f: solving the dynamic of twins
However, as stated, when the faster of the two is out, the other half of the set always ups her performance level significantly. I don't see how that could be anything but mental. Dan --- Tom Derderian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so the explanation figures to be more mental than physical. I would not assume the above. Non physical differences may be more than genetic, i.e. influenced by a critically different hormonal environment. Tom http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
Re: t-and-f: Altitude Training Symposium
I've been meaning to ask a semi-related question. There's lots of data out there on the performance gains of training at altitude, and the effects of altitude on sprinting, but I can't find anything about its effect on distance running. Is there a percent formula (slow-down), or does it vary too much with each individual? We have our XC District meet at 3,000' feet this year, which isn't huge, but it's significant for people accustomed strictly to sea level. I'm curious how much slower we should expect 5k times to be, or if the modest altitude effect can be countered by extra hill work and higher mileage (strengthening the lungs and circulation). Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: 'More Brutal Than The BALCO Scandal'
Until now, most experts have said they didn't believe gene doping was yet in practice, but suggested it could be a threat by the time of the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Springstein, who has worked with some of Germany's top runners, is on trial in the eastern city of Magdeburg on charges including the alleged doping of young athletes in 2003. Wow, the experts only missed the boat by 5 years. No wonder they're always several steps behind when it comes to testing. That is, assuming the '03 date is referring to the same nature of doping. Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'More Brutal Than The BALCO Scandal' POSTED: 8:31 am PST February 2, 2006 BERLIN -- The trial of a German track coach accused of supplying performance-enhancing drugs to athletes has included evidence indicating gene doping already might be taking place in sports. E-mails seized in the investigation of Thomas Springstein contain references to Repoxygen, a substance normally used in gene therapy. Gene doping, which is banned in sports, involves transferring genes directly into human cells to blend into an athlete's own DNA in order to enhance muscle growth and increase strength or endurance. Until now, most experts have said they didn't believe gene doping was yet in practice, but suggested it could be a threat by the time of the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Springstein, who has worked with some of Germany's top runners, is on trial in the eastern city of Magdeburg on charges including the alleged doping of young athletes in 2003. The trial took an unexpected twist this week when the court was read e-mails found when police raided Springstein's home in search of evidence. In one e-mail, Springstein complained that the new Repoxygen is hard to get. Please give me new instructions soon so that I can order the product before Christmas. Repoxygen is designed for gene therapy on patients with anemia. It can boost an athlete's performance by inducing the release of erythropoietin, or EPO, a substance that stimulates the production of red blood cells to carry more oxygen to the muscles. The International Olympic Committee and World Anti-Doping Agency already test for synthetic EPO. But there is no known test for Repoxygen, which gives the body the gene to stimulate EPO production on its own. Werner Franke, a German scientist who has documented doping cases in the former East Germany, said Springstein's e-mail exchanges about Repoxygen and other substances suggest criminal activity. This is about arranged bodily harm. This is worse than in the GDR and more brutal than the BALCO scandal, Franke said in the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. Springstein has worked with athletes including former East German track stars Grit Breuer and Katrin Krabbe. The two were banned from competition for using the steroid clenbuterol in 1992. Copyright 2006 by KTVU.com. The Associated Press contributed to this report. http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: National Depth--Steeplechase
Interesting. Was it the 5k/10 list that they filled with greater numbers, or something altogether different I'm remembering? Dan --- Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found these totals and top rankings in my lists since 1998: 1998 20 (1) 1999 22 (1) 2000 18 (1) 2001 19 (2) 2002 20 (2) 2003 19 (2) 2004 22 (2) 2005 23 (2) http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?'
You cannot set a record while dirty. Sure you can. It's been done lots of times, and several of them are still on the books. Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He never held it. You do not understand the fundamental rules of track. You cannot set a record while dirty. The eradication of his record is not a penalty or punishment it is the correction of History. I suppose you believe that OJ is innocent or is it not guilty? platt http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?'
There's arguably more proof that the Eastern Bloc records were aided by doping than there is in Montgomery's case. Dan --- malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which ones? -Original Message- You cannot set a record while dirty. Sure you can. It's been done lots of times, and several of them are still on the books. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?'
Neither Maurice or Tim currently holds the record, but both did at one point, so former seems perfectly applicable. Just because Tim's record isn't currently on the books, doesn't mean it wasn't formerly. (Just had to sneak that in.) Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the precedent for 'former?' I was reading the Marion Jones story below. From a journalism standpoint, I am hung up on this word former. Monty's 9.78 has been canceled and has been purged from official standings. Is it fair to reference Monty's 9.78 as a former world record if the mark was achieved by illegal means and not officially recognized? Maurice Greene is a former world record holder. Should cheats be given the same recognition? Maybe it just takes time to let it fade away. ... Tim Montgomery - the former world 100m world record-holder. Sprinter Jones on way back to top http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/4651870.stm Montgomery hit with two-year ban http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/4521452.stm http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?'
The record was ratified. What happened later does not change the fact that he formerly held the record. Unless you want to change the definition of the words themselves, Tim is a former record holder. Dan --- Geoff Pietsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With respect, I disagree. To call him the former recordholder suggests that he held a valid record. He did not. So if the record is found to have been invalid, he cannot be a former recordholder. http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Where did the list go?
Sadly, nothing gets the list going like a discussion about the death of the list. Dan --- B. Kunnath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this thread so far explains perfectly why the list is dying..apparently theres nothing worth debating, so it starts to look like one long Seinfeld episode. http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?'
Problem is, Tim met all the requirements of the time (clean drug test, legal condtions, ran the whole race) for the record to have been ratified. Had Ruiz set a record at Boston, she presumably would have been found to have cheated prior to it being ratified, so they're rather different scenarios. No matter how you spin it, Tim had a record in the books. Yeah, it was later removed, but there's just no getting around the fact that he formerly held the record. There's not even any gray area there. Whether one chooses to acknowledge the record is an entirely different matter. Dan --- Geoff Pietsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By your definition, Rosie Ruiz is also, as Linda Honikman said, a former winner of the Boston Marathon - even though she apparently ran only a mile or so. Rosie got the medal and the laurel wreath. Later it was proven that she cheated. She can hardly be a formerwinner of the Boston Marathon if she didn't run the full Boston Marathon. Similarly,Tim Montgomery cheated. His record was ratified based on a lie. It's hard to be a former recordholder if one never ran the record - 9.79 drug free - the authorities ratified. The drug free is implicit in all ratified records. From: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: t-and-f@lists.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?' Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:43:50 -0800 (PST) The record was ratified. What happened later does not change the fact that he formerly held the record. Unless you want to change the definition of the words themselves, Tim is a former record holder. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: What's the precedent for 'former?'
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no he does not have a record on the books. I didn't say he *does* have the record, I set he *did* have it. Surely, you can see the difference? If you go back to the so called record book it would list the world record holder of record the day before or morning of TM's race. That's absolutely irrelevant, unless you're incapable of separating current and former, which appears to be the case. Montgomery never held a record, it was wiped from the slate as if it never happened, Ratification or not. But it *did* happen, like it or not. You're changing history to make a point. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: XC-Champs 1966 and 1969
Tom Heinonen is still active in coaching. He might know the answer. http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~running/files/contact.html Dan --- magnusson tomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have another subject today, I posted this a while ago in the TFN History Forum, but nobody really had the answer so... why not try the old good list, as I know I now have the attention :-) I wonder if you happen to know if (and why) US started with only 7 runners in the International Cross champs 1969. One possibility could also be that they started with 9 but the results never listed them as DNF. As team they arrived as 8th with following results: ... 8 United States 369 Bill Clark 11 Tracy Smith 31 Charles Messenger 48 Jim Murphy 82 Bill Norris 95 Tom Heinonen 102 Christopher McCubbins (105) ... Analogue for the IXC 1966: USA was listed with 9 athletes and no reserves in the official Programme: Tracy Smith , Eamon O'Reilly , Michael Kimball , Herb Lorenz , Bruce Mortensen , Bob Scharf , Oscar Moore, Bob Reddington and Tom Bache In the results are following listed . ... 5 United States 194 Tracy Smith 3 Doug Brown 26 Eamon O'Reilly 33 Tom Bache 38 Michael Kimball 44 Herb Lorenz 50 Bruce Mortensen (63) Bob Scharf (88) ... That is, Oscar Moore and Bob Reddington either dropped out or never started , while Doug Brown obviously had to replace one of them as reserve. Would be great if someone could give me some background information about these 2 races. Best wishes Tom PS. For detailed results of these races you can follow it up on my webpage: http://www.mypage.bluewin.ch/tomtytom/index.html http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Re: Women's Decathlon
I forgot to specify in my retype the main reason for comparing the women's steeple and hep/dec ... they're similar in that there are fewer women than men and they're among the more physically demanding events. Any excuse for making one relatively easier should hold true for the other. Dan --- Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Crud, I lost my reply just before sending it... I could buy that, to an extent, but what then of something like the steeple, which has transitioned away from softer standards (shorter/shallower pit) with no resistance that I'm aware of? What I'd be curious to see is the results of a detailed survey among female elite heptathletes. Things like would they be in favor of running the 1500 instead of the 800, the pole vault instead of the high jump, 400 instead of the 200, etc.? Dan --- Tom Derderian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe there are fewer women contesting hepthalons compared to men contesting decathlons so any one injury is affecting a larger % of the total? Does that make sense? Tom http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: t-and-f: Re: Women's Decathlon
Has anyone studied why (and if, truly) the decathlon would be relatively harder on women than other events like the steeple, marathon, hurdles, etc.? I've never seen anything in the training of individual decathletes and heptathletes that would lead me to that conclusion. If women want equality across the board, they ought to step up to the plate and take on the same workload. [flame suit on] Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Re: Women's Decathlon
Crud, I lost my reply just before sending it... I could buy that, to an extent, but what then of something like the steeple, which has transitioned away from softer standards (shorter/shallower pit) with no resistance that I'm aware of? What I'd be curious to see is the results of a detailed survey among female elite heptathletes. Things like would they be in favor of running the 1500 instead of the 800, the pole vault instead of the high jump, 400 instead of the 200, etc.? Dan --- Tom Derderian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe there are fewer women contesting hepthalons compared to men contesting decathlons so any one injury is affecting a larger % of the total? Does that make sense? Tom http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Is anyone innocent?
I've asked that question here on the list previously (with regard to Paula) and no one's been able to find an answer. For all we know, BALCO or some similar designer lab has run tests and determined that the applicable drug traces do not remain beyond a certain point of freezing. Unless someone has shown that frozen blood samples *do* retain what is supposed to be preserved, I don't see offers to store them for the future as being all that significant. Dan --- Matt Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I should also mention that an ESPN analyst brought up a good point last night. Blood degenerates over time. It can't be expected to be valid for testing purposes after a long period of time. If Lance DID have his blood frozen for future tests, couldn't he take his chances that his blood will be useless when they did come up with a test for any unknown performance enhancing drugs he may be taking? When the most tested athlete in sports wants his blood frozen for future tests, he's either clean and proud or dirty and confident. http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Is anyone innocent?
It's been suggested several times on the list that his cancer was the perfect opportunity to conceal the best performance enhancer of them all -- EPO -- used in cancer patients. The Discovery special about him having a heart twice the size of average people is a much more appealing sell, though. Dan --- Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He didn't do it natuarlly. He got cancer and that turned him into the rider he is today. Martin J. Dixon, B. Math. (Hons), C.A., Millard Financial Consulting Inc. P.O. Box 367 96 Nelson Street Brantford, Ontario N3T 5N3 Direct Dial: (519) 759-3708 Ext. 231 Telephone: (519) 759-3511 Private Facsimile: (519) 759-8548 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: www.millards.com [Message delivered by NotifyLink] --Original Message-- From: Ricky Quintana [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, August 23, 2005 12:01 PM To: t-and-f@darkwing.uoregon.edu Subject: t-and-f: Is anyone innocent? http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-armstrong-dopingprov=aptype=lgns The image that has always stuck in my mind is Lance Armstrong being caught and annihilated in a time trial by Miguel Indurain(not sure what year, but it was prior to his string of wins and his bout with cancer). Similar to what Armstrong did to Ulrich this year. I just can't believe that Armstrong could get to his status naturally after watching that time trial. I suggest anyone decrying their innocence submit a blood sample that would be frozen until more accurate testing is available. I wonder how many takers there would be. Ricky _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: t-and-f: American athletes racing ahead but fans are left behind
It is all thanks to the United States' college and university system that the country is able to produce such great athletes and send such strong teams to the championships. Allyson Felix and several others that left college early (i.e. Gatlin, Richards, etc.) might have something to say about that. I don't think the US college system has much at all to do with the direct success of the international teams; just the continued nurturing of the best talent pool around. The HS'ers this country produces in the sprints would better many countries' senior ranks. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: t-and-f: WCSN coverage of Golden League
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like you have a cable modem. I've heard that it's different technology than my DSL- instead of a dedicated pipeline you're sharing bandwidth with your neighborhood, and the more neighbors that are on at a given time, the slower your bandwidth gets. That is correct. There are several web sites that provide free speed tests. For example www.speakeasy.net You might want to check those out. Basically you need download speed of at least 350kbps to see a smooth picture on wcsn.com 4163 kbps at the moment; probably a bit slower at the time. Uhit's live. THEY do the jumping around from event to event. It's not like a separate channel covers each event going on at a given time. It's a single broadcast. Do you mean to go backwards and replay something, like TiVO? On the WCSN front page, it says: OR, get them all with the WCSN.com Track Pass for just $9.95 live or on demand. and the only link I could find for watching the meet (the aforementioned tiny watch button) has right next to it: watch Archive video: 350K I took that to mean you could watch it live or jump into the broadcast later and watch what you had missed, which is what I gathered (apparently incorrectly) was the case with the Worlds webcast. If I was wrong about that, then I'm even less impressed with the usefulness of the service. Just point your mouse at the picture, right mouse-click, choose 'zoom' from the drop-down menu, and then choose 'full screen'. That's a bit less intuitive than enabling the standard window maximize or drag to size options... Maybe I'm biased because a big part of my work is making web applications as user friendly as possible, and it seems like the WCSN crew set about things with the exact opposite goal. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: t-and-f: Re: I'll be bad mouthing WCSN every chance I get.
As is usually the case, when it comes right down to it, Malmo has next to nothing of substance to say. Way to back up your earlier accusations of incompetency. Dan --- malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bitter much, kid? http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
t-and-f: WCSN coverage of Golden League
I ordered the WCSN package for the remaining Golden League meets, having skipped the World Championships coverage because: a) I've been very unimpressed with webcasts in the past b) my cable connection has been annoyingly slow the past 2-3 weeks c) the PAX coverage was surprisingly good through most of the week Comcast seemed to be picking back up the past few days and I was able to access the WCSN site reasonably quickly, so I figured I'd give it a shot. Well, after ordering, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to log in and start watching. The only thing close is the log in / register option, but all that did was take me to another payment page. Huh? I finally swallowed my pride and called support with what I figured had to be the stupidest question ever, and it turned out they had to do something at their end to get the system to recognize my computer. Hmph. Very user friendly. Thinking things will now flow smoothly, I loaded up the player and started watching the feed, at which point I couldn't possibly have been more disappointed. It was completely unwatchable! First up was the women's 800, and all I could see of the first 200m was them glitching on the starting line, then frozen at about 50m, all the while the audio was still rolling. The men's javelin a bit later was better, but still froze frequently. To make matters worse, there doesn't appear to be any way to jump around in the coverage until they archive it, presumably after the meet is over. But by then I would've already seen the results (gotta process them for Fantasy League scoring) and would resent paying to watch a meet I already know the outcome of. Also, someone mentioned during the Worlds coverage that you could maximize the window for more TV-like viewing, but I had no such option with today's feed. It was fixed at that lovely 3x3 size that a graphing calculator puts to shame. So, I called back in a huff and cancelled the service, and I won't be trying anything of the sort again any time soon. The service rep (who of course spoke marginal English) offered to troubleshoot the situation, but I was far beyond fed up at that point. I don't care if the package costs $1 or $100, I won't support anything that unfit for public consumption. To those of you who have fared better, congratulations and I hope you enjoy the coverage. I'll be bad mouthing WCSN every chance I get. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
t-and-f: Re: I'll be bad mouthing WCSN every chance I get.
I wrote the original message to the list, smiling to myself, knowing Malmo would be quick on the draw with a typically idiotic reply. Thanks for not letting me down! Sure, my reaction may have been over the top, but I was up front about the fact (referenced calling them up in a huff and being too frustrated to continue), but to my way of looking at things, when a service sucks, that experience should be shared for the possible benefit of others. Not much bad has been said here about the WCSN webcast ... until now. To those of you bored with Malmo's and my ongoing pointless disagreement (to recap, he thinks I'm a no-talent athlete who deserves no say in anything, I think he's a moronic drunk who's fueled by online anonymity and ass kissing), read no further. To those of you bored of little else to read on the list, carry on... As most already know there will always be a finicky few of your customers who will never be satisfied with anything. You are one of them. Wonderful generalization. Too bad it's nonsense. When the first post to the list was made commending the WCSN coverage of the World Championships, I was the first to reply and commend the PAX coverage additionally. Open mouth. Insert foot. Agreed, the login process isn't as user friendly as it could be, but nothing in life ever is. There you go, excuse a design flaw on someone else's part to make a point. Brilliant. Still, it only requires the mental acuity of a 3rd grader IF you can follow instructions. Some, by nature, simply cannot do this. Once said 3rd grader logs in and opens up the WCSN media player, while not explicit in the instructions... Ah, that would be a beauty of a rip if you had actually read what I wrote on the matter... First of all, there were NO instructions, not even the typical start up / get logged in info in the confirmation email. Yeah, highly intuitive to start watching a subscription service before logging in. ... said 3rd grader would intuitively know to click the green button labeled WATCH in the menu (which is not a piece of jewelry), and the program is delivered. Here's where your blind hatred of me betrays you. As I specified previously, the problem turned out to be on their end. Nothing I could've done about it, be it looking for instructions that didn't exist or asking you for your unwanted opinion. Loading the player simply asked me to log in and logging in took me back to the payment page. Find me one 3rd grader that could've figured that out and you've got yourself a Nobel Prize candidate. If said 3rd grader wanted to view a full screen, all it takes is to click on the 12 point capital letter font labeled FULL SCREEN and the media player magically complies. No rocket science here. I don't recall seeing that option -- the regular window maximize button was disabled -- but I don't have access anymore to check it out. For what my opinion is worth, WCSN is the best thing to happen to track and field coverage since the invention of the radio. Pretty low standard of competition, huh? About as low as your creativity in erroneously criticizing anything and everything I post. It's been fun, as always. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: t-and-f: What's so good . . . about an event so bad?
I'd be curious to know how many of those DNFs were actually their countries' 4th and 5th entrants, and how many were just rough days in an event known for breaking people down. As presented, it looks like the borderline qualifiers didn't hold their own, in which case I'd agree with your assessment. Dan --- Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or, to put it another way: Why should a country be allowed five entrants in the marathon, when the maximum for every other event is four? Seven countries were permitted five entries in the men's marathon. Of those, the highest ranked finisher was Japan's third place (also fourth place). Of the remaining countries with five entries, the next-highest finisher was Kenya's seventh place. Kenya's fifth entry, however, did not finish the course. Nor did their fourth-place finisher. I could go on (and will), but the very worst example of countries permitted five entries was South Africa: none of whose runners finished? Why, when it should be a life-long distinction for an athlete to even qualify to compete in the world championships, should anyone gain that distinction at a lesser level of requirement in the marathon than in any other event? Especially, when one looks at the competitive accomplishments of those fifth-choice athletes-- Countries with five entrants and their placings in the WC marathon: Brazil 10, 33, 39, 41, (49) Ethiopia 13, 19, 31, DNF, (DNF) Italy 17, 35. DNF, DNF, (DNF) Japan 3, 4, 14, 20, (28) Kenya 7, 11, 29, DNF, (DNF) South Africa DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF, (DNF) United States 9, 22, 40, 51, (59) Okay, I'll back off and let the old wheezies tell me about what's so great about the marathon. But maybe they also can explain why one country should be permitted five entrants, when none of the five can complete the race. http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
RE: t-and-f: What's so good . . . about an event so bad?
How exactly was I wrong? That exactly agrees with the question I raised. We just can't agree on anything, you and I... Dan --- malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrong. The borderline qualifiers, as you characterize them, held their own. It was, as one would expect in championship marathoning, the top professionals, whose livelihoods depend on two (three at most) efforts a year, who would drop out. Brazil 10, 33, 39, 49, DNF (the top qualifier DNF) Ethiopia 13, 19, 31, DNF, (DNF) (3rd, 5th qualifier DNF) Italy 17, 35. DNF, DNF, (DNF) (top three DNF) Japan 3, 4, 14, 20, (28) Kenya 7, 11, 29, DNF, (DNF) (2nd, 4th DNF) South Africa DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF, (DNF) United States 9, 22, 40, 51, (59) 2:14:46 5 Khoza Collin RSA DNF 2:11:51 4 Hoff Shadrack RSA DNF 2:08:32 2 Ramaala Hendrick RSA DNF 2:10:16 3 Fika Makhosonke RSA DNF 2:08:33 1 Thys Gert RSA DNF 2:07:29 1 Baldini Stefano ITA DNF 2:09:07 3 Bourifa Migidio ITA DNF 2:08:02 2 Di Cecco Alberico ITA DNF 2:06:47 2 Onsare Wilson KEN DNF 2:07:50 4 Muindi Jimmy KEN DNF 2:09:24 3 Melese Gashaw ETH DNF 2:10:49 5 Guta Dejene ETH DNF 2:10:45 4 Bayo Getuli TAN DNF 2:08:51 2 Bayo Amnaay Zebedayo TAN DNF 2:15:16 4 Bouramdane Abderrahime MAR DNF 2:10:49 2 El Boumlili Khalid MAR DNF 2:14:48 1 Jaber Ahmed Jumaa QAT DNF 2:15:45 2 Awadh Aman Majid QAT DNF 2:13:40 2 Ramard David FRA DNF 2:13:12 1 Ezzobayry Ahmed FRA DNF 2:16:45 2 Lehtinen Tuomo FIN DNF 2:12:10 1 Holmén Janne FIN DNF 2:07:42 2 Ríos José ESP DNF 2:07:49 1 Kim Yi-Yong KOR DNF 2:08:31 1 de Lima Vanderlei BRA DNF 2:11:20 2 Burmakin Dmitriy RUS DNF 2:12:53 1 García José Amado GUA DNF 2:13:00 4 Sousa António POR DNF 2:13:37 1 Belhout Saïd ALG DNF 2:15:13 1 Riyadh Al Mustafa BRN DNF 2:16:06 1 Joseph Zephirinus LCA DNF 2:16:38 1 Cooray Anuradha SRI DNF 2:22:00 1 Maine Tsotang Simon LES DNF 2:30:56 1 Gahimbaré Jean-Paul BDI DNF -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Kaplan Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 3:04 AM To: t-and-f@darkwing.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: t-and-f: What's so good . . . about an event so bad? I'd be curious to know how many of those DNFs were actually their countries' 4th and 5th entrants, and how many were just rough days in an event known for breaking people down. As presented, it looks like the borderline qualifiers didn't hold their own, in which case I'd agree with your assessment. Dan --- Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or, to put it another way: Why should a country be allowed five entrants in the marathon, when the maximum for every other event is four? Seven countries were permitted five entries in the men's marathon. Of those, the highest ranked finisher was Japan's third place (also fourth place). Of the remaining countries with five entries, the next-highest finisher was Kenya's seventh place. Kenya's fifth entry, however, did not finish the course. Nor did their fourth-place finisher. I could go on (and will), but the very worst example of countries permitted five entries was South Africa: none of whose runners finished? Why, when it should be a life-long distinction for an athlete to even qualify to compete in the world championships, should anyone gain that distinction at a lesser level of requirement in the marathon than in any other event? Especially, when one looks at the competitive accomplishments of those fifth-choice athletes-- Countries with five entrants and their placings in the WC marathon: Brazil 10, 33, 39, 41, (49) Ethiopia 13, 19, 31, DNF, (DNF) Italy 17, 35. DNF, DNF, (DNF) Japan 3, 4, 14, 20, (28) Kenya 7, 11, 29, DNF, (DNF) South Africa DNF, DNF, DNF, DNF, (DNF) United States 9, 22, 40, 51, (59) Okay, I'll back off and let the old wheezies tell me about what's so great about the marathon. But maybe they also can explain why one country should be permitted five entrants, when none of the five can complete the race. http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF
Re: t-and-f: Re: What's so good?
--- Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll tell you what's so good: As I've written more than once, it's the unparalled value of this list as a resource for information about our sport ... all I have to do is ask and someone will provide the answer. I still consider it the best such resource, but it's more of an encyclopedia these days than a steady discussion. Got a question? Send it off to the list and some track savvy librarian dusts off the old books and looks it up lickety split. Too many other places to discuss things and get instant results, but here is one place you don't have to sift through the rubbish to get a straight answer. If our 673 current members still includes at least one supervisor, might it be possible to find a way to unsubscribe john dixon,Interact? Here, here! Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: t-and-f: Coverage
I couldn't ask for much better from the PAX coverage, either. They managed to cover most of the day's activities with a no-fluff hour. The only thing that threw me off is the British manner of breezing through the lane seedings. I'd find myself not paying attention to what they were saying, expecting it to be displayed on the screen, only to realize I had no idea who was who at the start of the race. Dan --- H. Michael Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks to the people who pointed out the availability of the webcast. The $4.95 is an incredible bargain that I enjoyed for today's second round. I appreciated the continuous coverage of events and not having the drivel that is too often a part of US TV coverage. The SP and women's 10K were a treat. http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Powell's WR
Yeah, who was that fool who said he'd never amount to anything... :-) Although, to be fair, I think I referred to his competitive drive more than his ability to shine in low key settings. Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Powell is closing in on his potential. I really wonder what kind of 400 he could run if he had the motivation to train for it. Mitch http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html
Re: t-and-f: SP Marking at Payton Jordan Meet
It's a common joke over here, even amongst gov't workers (I was one for a while). Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, June 9, 2005 9:58 pm Subject: Re: t-and-f: SP Marking at Payton Jordan Meet I didn't notice that precisely, but I did have the odd feeling that the guy doing the measuring thought that anywhere fairly near where the shot landed was close enough for government work. Mitch YAK! Maybe I'm just missing the 'funny' part in this comment (English is not my first language). But as I read it, this is an unneccesary, unwarranted, CHEAP shot at both the jury member and government workers? If so, I sure hope you apologize to any and all jury members who (in 99.9% of the cases) VOLUNTEER their time at athletics meets you attend, where they often have to deal with similar s..tty comments (maybe you should even apologize to all those government workers out there each time they go out of their way providing either you, your loved ones and/or friends with services or funds) Wilmar (and no, I do not work in government) http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: SP Marking at Payton Jordan Meet
Me thinks it's time to bust out one of my favorite jokes... --- A fellow stopped at a rural petrol station and, after filling his tank, he paid the bill and bought a soft drink. He stood by his car to drink his cola and he watched a couple of men working along the roadside. One man would dig a hole two or three feet deep and then move on. The other man came along behind and filled in the hole. While one was digging a new hole, the other was about 25 feet behind filling in the old. The men worked right past the fellow with the soft drink and went on down the road. I can't stand this, said the man tossing the can in a trash container and heading down the road toward the men. Hold it, hold it, he said to the men. Can you tell me what's going on here with this digging? Well, we work for the county, one of the men said. But one of you is digging a hole and the other fills it up. You're not accomplishing anything. Aren't you wasting the county's money? You don't understand, mister, one of the men said, leaning on his shovel and wiping his brow. Normally there's three of us--me, Rodney and Mike. I dig the hole, Rodney sticks in the tree and Mike here puts the dirt back. Now just because Rodney's sick, that don't mean that Mike and me can't work. --- Dan --- Trey Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No one works for the governmentthey are employed by the government. Now, don't jump on me, that came from a state employee. Trey Failure is not an option. http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
t-and-f: 2005 Run-Down Fantasy TF League
It's that time again! The 2005 Run-Down Fantasy TF League is now open for business. As always, there is no cost to participate (and no prizes to be won other than respect). http://run-down.com/fantasy/ The first meet is July 1st. Roster selections will be made available through June 30th. The Meet and Event schedules follow the Golden League setup pretty closely this year, so there's less guesswork than in past years as far as which events will be contested regularly. For answers to all your other questions, please consult the FAQ and Fantasy discussion forum: http://run-down.com/fantasy/faq.php http://run-down.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6 Spread the word! The more the merrier. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Prefontaine
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know what the reaction time was? 0.076 Thanks. I was guessing more like 0.09 (i.e. imperceptibly illegal), but a hundreth of a second difference isn't much... Where'd you find the reaction time listed? I'm curious what it was for the guys around him, because it didn't look like AJ gained much of an advantage off the line. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When Powell ran that amazing quarter- or semi-final in Athens when he jogged under 10-flat, I thought that he will have to have a day, if not several days, when it all comes together for him and he runs 9.75. You may be right about him temperamentally, but I didn't sense he was cocky. Cocky may not be the best title, but I'm at a loss for a better way to describe it. I'm reminded of the White Men Can't Jump line about looking good and losing vs. looking bad and winning. Powell just seems to be too cool for his own good, in an event dictated by aggressiveness. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: reaction times (was: Prefontaine)
I agree entirely. I know we've been over it before, but there isn't much else on the list these days to flog... Equally troubling [to me] as the arbitrariness, is the underlying rationale for having a required delay in the first place. Auto timing factors in the human reaction time by adding that tenth of a second back in, yet requires the athletes to not make any movement during that brief time the clock is running, in effect penalizing them for a non-race portion. If they aren't running, the clock shouldn't be, either. Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not to beat this dead horse, but it's ridiculous that a sprinter could be disqualified for a 0.10 reaction time and another win gold with 0.09. There should be no artificial reaction delay mandated. I don't think I'm as much against the idea of a delay as I am against the arbitrariness of where to set it. Linford Christie gets tossed in Atlanta for a 0.87. Insane except that that was the rule. What if the artificial delay had been set at 0.8? I know, I know...IT WASN'T. But why artificial and (necessarily) arbitrary? Where else in the sport is there an artificial barrier? (Some smart track fanatics in 1953 considered an 8-minute 2-mile to be a barrier squared!) Some people are better starters than others, and it's a big part of sprinting. Artificial delay is far less fair than guessing well. Mitch http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Re: t-and-f: reaction times (was: Prefontaine)
Seems like that would have the potential to work, although I'm always hesitant to add that much complexity. Think Sydney starting blocks... Such a system would obviously only be able to be used in the big international meets, since no one else would have the technology available. That's no different than pressure sensing blocks, except that the means of starting is the same now for big or small meets. Going to a computer count down would change the athlete-starter relationship enough that things would seemingly be pretty different with and without the computerized system. I'm not sure that's a terribly good thing. Dan --- Randy Treadway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan's idea has merit, but doesn't address all the issues. The main issue at the root of the argument for the current rules is that they don't want an automated 'Christmas tree' like drag racers, where 'rolling starts' are defacto rewarded. At issue is also the predictability of many starters. By I have an idea that addresses the best of what Dan is saying and also keeps away from rolling starts. It goes in this sequence: take your marks- same as today. Set- same as today. Starters looks to ascertain when everybody is still. Same process as today. When starters think everybody is still he/she presses a silent button which starts a 'blind' countdown, although the time span between the button being pushed and the gun firing is randomly selected by computer. Sometimes it might be 0.5 seconds, sometimes it might be 2.0 seconds. The sprinters don't know, and the starter doesn't know. Only the computer knows which delay has been selected randomly. Until the gun fires, anybody can be DQ'd for moving prematurely, but let the computerized blocks do it, not visual movement. When the gun fires, no delay is necessary before starting block pressure- the sprinters can go. The randomness (and keeping the no-false-start-or-you're-DQ'd-rule) ensures fairness. This also means starting over with national and world records. What do you think? Randy http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
Re: t-and-f: reaction times
--- Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can I take advantage of this thread, though, to ask what is the process that would be involved in considering and adopting such rules changes? Or do they originate at the level of some IAAF committee, proceed upward to the next committee, and the next, etc., and then descend upon the athletes/coaches/meet officials as already determined? That's been my impression. If we don't get a conclusive answer on here, I know a person or two I could run the question by... Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
Re: t-and-f: reaction times (was: Prefontaine)
--- Ed Marsha Prytherch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that blocks can be part of the problem. The blocks detect force, not movement. AJ appeared to rock in the blocks before he moved. I wonder if that contributed to the DQ. Yes, the technology itself is a huge problem, which is a big part of my distrust of adding more technological complexity. The idea of pressure sensing instead of movement sensing blocks is much like the whole reaction time issue: a band-aid fix that doesn't address the entire situation, and possibly makes it worse overall. Can anyone give a good reason why pressure changes on the pedals should be illegal? One of the keys to a strong start is precisely that -- loading back on the pedals while going up into the set position. In theory, that should be a pretty smooth and linear change in pressure, not bouncing back and forth, but there's no good reason why it couldn't be, since several movements are required to raise up and push back at the same time. The reason can't simply be that pressure changes indicate rocking back and forth, which is a distraction to the other competitors, because such movement is the starter's responsibility to either call up or wait for it to subside. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html
Re: t-and-f: Prefontaine
At one point, I looked up at the flags above the scoreboard and noticed that 2 were flapping around quite a bit and the other 2 next to them weren't moving at all. Now that's a swirling wind! As for the 110h, had the race gone off the first time, it would've been a pretty strong tailwind. I don't recall what exactly it was like on the 2nd and 3rd try, but it had definitely subsided. Wind or no wind, it was a very fast, very clean early season race. Dan --- Scott Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, absolutely, Dan. Randall's assertions are completely ludicrous. As I was announcing the meet, I noticed the wind swirls resulting in various windy and legal marks during the horizontal jumps. Not at all uncommon for Eugene. You are way off base on this one, Randall. http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Prefontaine
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Allen Johnson era is over. It may have ended in Athens. Long live the king! I dunno, he looked pretty explosive out of the blocks. In real time, both in person and on TV, it looked like a fair start. Anyone know what the reaction time was? Asafa Powell has the very real potential to become best ever. He appears to run fastest when he is in float mode. My guess is he never reaches that potential. He's just too cocky (in an aloof way) for his own good. He showed it last year in Athens, and he showed it again at Pre by not running through the line. He seems to favor looking cool over unsightly effort. Gatlin isn't much older, and he knows which approach is better suited to winning big races. I did pick Powell to win the race on Saturday, but only because I thought he was in better early season form. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Prefontaine
The wind was changing rapidly throughout the day, varying from obviously over the legal limit to not at all discernible. Dan --- Randall Northam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see the winds in the US are as capricious as ever. Or maybe Flo Jo's fat man was standing in front of the windguage again! Randall Northam 100 Metres - Men Wind: +3.4 m/s 1 Gatlin JustinUSA 9.84 2 Powell Asafa JAM 9.84 3 Scott LeonardUSA 9.94 4 Crawford Shawn USA 9.98 5 Collins Kim SKN 10.02 6 Frater Michael JAM 10.06 7 Montgomery Tim USA 10.10 8 Brown Darrel TRI 10.14 110 Metres Hurdles - Men Wind: +0.0 m/s 1 Liu XiangCHN 13.06 2 Trammell TerrenceUSA 13.12 3 Arnold Dominique USA 13.16 4 Brown Joel USA 13.52 5 Watkins ArendUSA 13.54 6 Moore Anwar USA 13.57 7 Bramlett Ron USA 13.76 Johnson AllenUSA DQ http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: University of Oregon track coach resigns
--- tafnut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am very dismayed by the resignation of Coach Smith. He, with his coaching staff, has put together a highly probable top-five NCAA team Unfortunately for he and his staff, their goals didn't jive with what the average Oregon track fan wants. Outside the top team or two, few people remember how overall squads do any given year at nationals (for tf). Individual glory is what's remembered, and Smith wasn't able to capture that in the events fans of the program largely care about. He also had an extremely bad aura about him from the moment he arrived, turning away many people that had followed the program closely. This departure was heavily rumored since the fall and a long, long time in coming. Dan http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: t-and-f: Coaching changes to blame for Kenya's slide - Tergat
--- Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you're using as an example an obviously team sport (basketball) to illustrate something about what most would argue is a team one (XC)? That obviously should have said individual... Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Coaching changes to blame for Kenya's slide - Tergat
--- B. Kunnath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Im sticking to my belief that XC is a team sport and should be run as one. Im amazed that you think diffferently. Well, the only other response I received said, you're exactly correct... Should HS and college XC runners also do their own thing and just get together on meet day? You seem to have missed a key part of what I said: The only thing that would hold them back is poor training, but from my understanding of the Kenyan national team, the big guns do their best to avoid training with the team, so that's sort of a moot point. Most HS and College runners: a) are not knowledgable and disciplined enough to train properly on their own, and b) do not have their own coach they work with the rest of the year. It's an extremely weak thread connecting their situation to that of the elite Kenyans. No matter how good the individuals are you can always do better with prerace planning and tactics. That's where we disagree. I say most of the team benefit in XC comes from the training philosophy, which doesn't really apply to what is basically an all-star squad. There are a few teams that always seem to perform well in big meets, but you'd be hard pressed to document how that's any more due to tactics than very good training (and athletes) leading up to that point. Runners shouldnt be allowed to run the show in training camp. I agree, but first we have to ask what the show actually is and what is the purpose of the training camp. If those questions cannot be acceptably answered, then maybe the athletes have a right to buck the system. A good example of how important team work is can be seen by the disaster the US Dream team has had in recent years. Hmm, you're using as an example an obviously team sport (basketball) to illustrate something about what most would argue is a team one (XC)? What can that possibly tell us about the importance of teamwork? As for following the who cares, just run philosophy, then why need coaching anyway? Training, motivation, scheduling... We're talking about a bunch of people that have their own coaches, agents, and managers already. Why DO they need additional team coaching, and how is it to blame for Kenya's slide? Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Coaching changes to blame for Kenya's slide - Tergat
Given how many of the top Kenyans train away from home most of the year, that seems like a very odd objection. Sounds like Paul is grasping for excuses. Dan --- R. Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=trackandfieldid=1991783 Reuters Internet Delivery System By Isa Omok NAIROBI, Feb 15 - Former world cross country champion Paul Tergat has blamed the regular change in national coaches for Kenya relinquishing their domination of the sport to Ethiopia. We will keep losing our grip on the world cross country title if we keep changing coaches. It is not good for the runners because we need consistency in this area, Tergat told reporters on Tuesday. Tergat was the men's long course world cross country champion from 1995 to 1999, and no Kenyan has won the title since. Ethiopia's Kenenisa Bekele has held the long and short course titles since 2002 and is the only man to win both events at the same championships. He also led Ethiopia to the long course team title in 2004, breaking Kenya's 18-year grip on the event. Many athletes who were selected (for the championships) want to train on their own outside the national team's residential training camp. That is a clear message to athletics chiefs that something is wrong with the coaching, said Tergat. I greatly benefited from the programmes at the camp...and I prefer that athletes remain in the camp. But the coaching system must be streamlined and changing coaches every year should stop, the marathon world record holder added. Athletics Kenya scrapped head coach Mike Kosgei's position last month as part of a decentralisation of coaching. Kosgei, one of the country's most successful coaches, was offered a position in charge of cross country and distance running but rejected it. A set of coaches led by Julius Kirwa is preparing the Kenyan team for the world cross country championships in France on March 19 and 20. World 5,000m champion Eliud Kipchoge has asked officials to allow him to train away from the national camp, which began on Monday. Athletics Kenya chairman Isaiah Kiplagat said all athletes would stay at the camp in Kigari, 250km north east of Nairobi, and urged coaches to join their charges there if they wanted to continue with their programmes. ENDS = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Coaching changes to blame for Kenya's slide - Tergat
--- B. Kunnath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Disagree Dan. XC is a team sport. I'd say that's a stretch. It's a team scored sport, but the bulk of the efforts are individual. Sure, teams can use tactics to help each other out (generally at the expense of others, so it's debatable how much net benefit there is), but many of those tactics could be used outside the team mentality with a bit of creative thinking. Think about your local HS XC team doing its own thing with diff coaches. How succesful would they be, even if they were all decent runners? If they were all among the best runners for that level of competition, as is the case with the Kenyan team, I'd wager they'd be pretty darn good! The only thing that would hold them back is poor training, but from my understanding of the Kenyan national team, the big guns do their best to avoid training with the team, so that's sort of a moot point. When do they discuss tactics? How do they know whos strongest at any given time? Who cares. Just run. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: So fast, so young - LaShawn Merritt of East Carolina
One of my favorite quotes is courtesy of the East Carolina sprint coach (don't recall his name off hand) from a few years back: Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. Dan --- Tom Borish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So fast, so young - LaShawn Merritt of East Carolina Right in front of his eyes, Alleyne Francique of Grenada saw his collegiate indoor record in the 400 meters go down. This wasn't from a seasoned veteran who was in his fourth year of college, this was from an 18-year old freshman by the name of LaShawn Merritt of East Carolina University. Francique, who held the previous collegiate indoor 2-lap record of 45.35 while at Louisiana State in 2002, placed fourth overall behind Merritt who claimed the race in 44.93 seconds at the Powered by Tyson Invitational on February 11 in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Merrit's win in front of a national televised audience on ESPN2 set a new indoor collegiate and world junior (19-and-under) record. It was also the third-fastest indoor 400 meter time in world history. More of this article: http://www.trackshark.com/articles/2005/7.php -- Tom Borish Webmaster - www.trackshark.com USTCA Publicist - www.ustrackcoaches.org Email - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone - 508-981-2864 = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Tyson Results
Tyson Invitational - 2/11/2005 to 2/12/2005 Men 1 Mile Run Tyson 1, 849 Bernard Lagat, Nike, 3:49.89 Is that the fastest run on American soil, or had 3:50 been broken before? Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: t-and-f: UK Sport to cut funding for athletes who fail to deliver
Kudos to Rudolph Schmidt for refusing to believe the list is dead! Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: National Depth--Marathon
Is the men's marathon the most densely populated (by a few countries) so far, or have there been others more lopsided? Dan --- Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The charts summarize the number of athletes each country placed in the world top-100 outdoor rankings for 2004 (plus ties) and the highest-ranked of these. Since one or two placings may represent only exceptional individuals, rather than national program strength, I've listed only countries with three or more athletes in the top 100 (plus ties). The data base drawn upon is the world deep list from Mirko Jalava's web site http://www.tilastopaja.net. This use of the data is with permission (his) and thanks (mine). MEN'S MARATHON 2004 Country Top 100 Highest Kenya 47 1 Japan 14 12 Ethiopia 6 14 Italy 5 21 Tanzania 5 53 Morocco3 8 Portugal 3 34 18 countries represented 100th = 2:11:27 WOMEN'S MARATHON 2004 Country Top 100 Highest Japan 18 1 Russia16 14 Kenya 13 2 China 8 6 Ethiopia 7 12 United States 7 34 Italy 5 25 Romania3 12 26 countries represented 100th = 2:32:06 = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Jones Accusation
I haven't read today's reports, but I don't see why the claims would be far fetched. By 2000, Marion was already losing her edge and probably trying to increase the training to maintain it. That's where roids are most likely to be of direct benefit, allowing the athlete to recover faster and keep the training load up. Dan --- Roger Ruth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'd had any doubt that the t-and-f list was comatose, today's lack of any response to news reports on Marion Jones' use of performance-enhancing drugs would resolve those doubts. Here, we have the most outstanding female sprinter of the last decade claimed by BALCO CEO Victor Conte to have injected drugs, under his supervision and in his sight, in the weeks leading up to the 2000 Olympics; and not one post on Jones' culpability or Conte's purpose in lying. Try this for size: If Jones had turned to drugs because, after having a baby, her rate of recovery to previous performance levels had proven unexpectedly slow and jeopardized her chances of making the team for Athens, that might make some hypothetical sense. But for her to turn to drugs in the weeks leading up to the 2000 Olympics. when she already had proven herself the world's best sprinter of that time seems ludicrous. Surely there must still be list members who know enough about sprinting and/or performance-enhancing drugs to offer some perspective on Conte's claims and the circumstances I've described as not believable. Can we please hear from them? = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
RE: t-and-f: blood doping detection
Buck, normally I find your arguments well constructed and perfectly sensible, but several of your points here have me scratching my noggin. Mainstream scientists have always had a huge technical and financial advantage over those wishing to dope. Where's the proof of that? Assertation or evidence. History states otherwise ... quite emphatically. I would also assert, as I have before, that doping just isn't all that successful anyway. If you disagree with that, then I believe you have to accept that nobody at the top is clean, something I simply don't buy. While I don't disagree with the nobody is clean argument, you've over-simplified the possible positions. You're leaving out a major middle ground, that being doping closing the gap between second tier athletes and genetic freaks that are clean at the top. That's a much more likely explanation than that of doping not being effective, which again history would emphatically disagree with. I can think of a bunch of ways to cheat but I can't think of one that it wouldn't be a lot easier to develop a test to detect. How about, say, HGH? Very easy to cheat with, finances aside, and supposedly impossible to detect for the past 20+ years. As far as companies like BALCO who supposedly developed this mondo-effective super juice, undetectable by science (apparently not) and will turn you into a 9.8 second dragster - show me the evidence. Tim Montgomery. How much more evidence do you need? Dwain Chambers and Kelli White as a close second and third... Just because BALCO might have been telling the dupes who were allegedly paying them (a lot) that it was so doesn't make it so. Uh... So, they somehow convinced a bunch of athletes through an expensive placebo to run some of the fastest times ever? Damn, I wish I'd of thought of that marketing scheme. Even media seekers like Caitlin and Pound don't claim to know anything about the performance-enhancing capability of THG. So what? As long as Conte knew enough to develop it and the results on the track speak for themselves, what's it matter if people on the outside know little or nothing about it? That's about as irrelavent as you can get. So many people underestimate how hard it is to develop something that is both efficacious and safe. Few people are worried about safe when it comes to doping, so again, that's pretty irrelevant. How much do you think UCLA spent to identify and develop a test for THG? How long did that take? Not very long and not very much by comparison. I don't recall the specifics, but there was an article quoting the lead guy in the lab, stating it was actually quite time consuming even when they knew specifically what they were working with. So the anti-doping scientist may be following the dopers, but its not catch-ip, it's hunting. Hunting blind. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: RE: [TF] Questionable statistics?
My major problem with the article, besides the obvious absurdity, was this apparent premise: An Oxford University study found that women are running faster than they have ever done over 100m. Aside from the fact that it simply is not true, it's a great premise to start out on. Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The article is probably meant to be serious, and is also based on legitimate foolishness of a person that understands naught about human pefromance. Disgrace for Oxford (with whom I collaborate on two large international pooled aanlyses in epidemiology and have not encountered such nonsense, thank goodness). Uri = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Nesterenko
otherwise the discussion ends in speculation, innuendo and the like. That's the reality these days. Denying it is the ignorant position. You have to figure the odds are at least 50/50 that Nesterenko will test positive within the next year. Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Winfried Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sunday, August 22, 2004 3:51 am Subject: t-and-f: Nesterenko Yuliya Nesterenko reminds me of Kelly White: White improved from 11.16 to 10.79 when she was 27 years old, Nesterenko from 11.45 to 10.92 at the age of 25 ... Hello Winfried, Maybe it is my insufficient command of the Englisch language, but I do not completely see the point you're trying to make. They're two different athletes from different countries training under different coachingregimes, improving at different ages by a similarly large, but still different margin. Is there a common factor you are trying to identify? Because if so, it might be informative and instructive to spell it out - otherwise the discussion ends in speculation, innuendo and the like. Surely, that's not what anybody wants to happen to the sports of athletics? regards, Wilmar Kortleever = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: t-and-f: FW: Mistreatment of Fans at Olympic Trials
Simple. Let people watch however they want and those who don't like it can stay home and watch on TV, seated or standing. Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we all agree that the sitelines in the grandstands at Sacramento State are not optimal. And we agree that the security personnel were a bit heavy- handed in their interpretation and enforcement of seating etiquette. Okay, it's fine to complain to CEO's and anybody else who would listen, but what would you have in its place? We need specific suggestions. Do you REALLY want no suggested etiquette at all? There will always be some folks who want to stand up every time the gun is fired and stay standing until five minutes after the last runner hits the finish line. That leaves some people seething. Many of the seething ones fall into the next category: There will also always be fans who like to stayed seated for most of the competition, only jumping up in the air to cheer a fabulous finish line sprint or a great record time. So how do we accomodate both? Both sides would probably say banish those other fans to the 200m start area or some other lonely corner. That seems unfair too. How would you design a grandstand with sitelines that could accomodate BOTH groups and make it an enjoyable experience for both? We could build a grandstand at an incredible steep angle- like 60 degrees, so that you can see over the person in front of you even if he/she is standing. But it might be impractical, or an impossible task. Many European meets have MOST of their ticketed admission areas as standing room- there aren't even any seats or benches at ALL there! You HAVE to stand the entire meet! How about if the lower half of the grandstand was 'seated most of the time' and had to pay a 10 or 15 percent premium ticket price for the privilege of clean site lines, and nice individual seats? And the 'want to stand most of the time' fans could be seated (an oxymoron of course) in the upper half of the grandstand so they don't block anybody except their own kind. In a perfect world I'd give the 'seated most of the timers' theater-type individual seats like you see at most modern baseball stadiums, and I'd give the 'stand most of the timers' bench seats (perhaps plastic or aluminum) like you see if many football stadiums. Why waste money on their fannies if they're gonna stand anyway? Just some scattered ideas- what would YOU do to provide solutions? (never whine without suggested solutions) RT = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: t-and-f: Fw: NYT - Felix, 18, Is Still Making the Adjustment From High School Star to Professional
--- Bob Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't believe many people are going to believe that Ryun was a drug cheat, nor JJK, who is a spokesperson for various asthma foundations. Why not, because they're idols? You could throw Marion Jones into that category, as well, but she seems to be mired in a bit of a drug controversy. Radcliffe is an avowed anti-doping advocate So was Baumann. Radcliffe became much quieter on the issue when she started winning. Funny how that works. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: t-and-f: Fw: NYT - Felix, 18, Is Still Making the Adjustment From High School Star to Professional
--- Bob Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But seriously, I don't think the medication would give you any advantage. It's been documented that there are some pretty serious advantages to non-asthmatics taking asthma medications. I think it was 98% of Ironman (?) triathletes were registered asthmatics like 5 years ago. Uh-huh. For example, most inhalers or other meds will make your heart race and also can make you overheat. You're confusing side effects from legitimate use with performance boosting stimulii from illegitimate use. I took an ephidrine stack for a week or two for allergy problems and it had that same heart racing effect. Felt pretty dangerous. But boy was I tearing it up in training for those couple of days. Despite the effectiveness of the medication, you are never 100% again and this is a *progressive* disease, which means that you get worse over time. Assuming it was actually a disease in the first place... The list of asthmatic athletes is endless. Jim Ryun, of course. Had Jackie Joyner-Kersee not been asthmatic, her 800m times would have been faster, given her natural talents and her records would be even further out of reach. Joan Samuelson became asthmatic later in her career, as did Mary Slaney. Paula Radcliffe is asthmatic, something which I just discovered and makes her records even more incredible. And now it appears that none other than El Guerrouj is having breathing problems as his last two races have been far below his usual standards. Those would be impressive examples if they were legit, but chances are quite strong most, if not all, of them were bogus prescriptions for performance enhancing reasons. If there's one thing BALCO has told us, it's that nothing in sport should be taken at face value when there is the potential for performance enhancement at play. And claiming innocence obviously means nothing. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: t-and-f: Fw: NYT - Felix, 18, Is Still Making the Adjustment From High School Star to Professional
--- Bob Duncan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still don't believe that a truly asthmatic athlete on medication will gain an advantage over a non-asthmatic athlete. That's an entirely separate question, and unless it can be confirmed that these questionable and numerous asthma diagnoses are legit, an entirely irrelevant one. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: t-and-f: Re: Svetlana Feofanova 16 feet!
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With all the excitemt about these 16 feet (of very little meaning to track fans outside the USA)... If it had so little meaning, I suspect she would have attempted another height after breaking the barrier. She did skip over a height to attempt that mark. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
t-and-f: Fantasy TF League, Season 3
Hi all, Less than a week left until the 2004 Run-Down Fantasy Track Field League gets underway. Season #3's first meet is July 2nd, so roster selections will be allowed through July 1st. http://run-down.com/fantasy/ As always, there is no cost to participate. To view the FAQ and general contest info, plus the forum set aside for everything Fantasy: http://run-down.com/fantasy/faq.php http://run-down.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6 Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Re: t-and-f: Kapachinskaya given ban
Unbelievable. On one hand, we've got the doping agencies trying to ban people who haven't tested positive, and on the other hand giving gold medals to someone they just banned for using the poster child of all drugs. Sounds like a Dave Barry article in the making. Dan --- Paul V. Tucknott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kapachinskaya given ban http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/3760023.stm World indoor 200m champion Anastasiya Kapachinskaya has been given a two-year ban for failing a drugs test, Russia's athletics head said on Saturday. Valery Kulichenko, the head coach of the Russian team, said the ban was effective from 24 May. The 25-year-old Russian tested positive for the anabolic steroid stanozolol at this year's world indoor championships in Budapest after winning the 200m. Kulichenko said that Kapachinskaya would now return her 200m gold medal. Stanozolol was the same drug Canadian sprinter Ben Johnson tested positive for following the 100m final at the 1988 Seoul Olympics. In a strange twist, Kapachinskaya, who finished second behind Kelli White in the 200m at last year's world outdoor championships in Paris, will be awarded the gold after the American received a two-year suspension for violating anti-doping rules. Earlier this month, White, who tested positive for a stimulant, modafinil, in Paris, admitted taking steroids and the blood-boosting erythropoietin (EPO). = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Kapachinskaya given ban
Last I read, White had to surrender all her medals. Dan --- Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is/was talk of letting White keep her medal for that very reason. I don't know if that is an option any longer. = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/
RE: t-and-f: Where, O Where have those little Greeks gone? Where, O Where can they be?
I'm with Malmo on this one. I share a healthy dose of suspicion regarding the apparent drug test dodging Greeks, but policies and enforcement like this are dangerously close to harrassment. Yet another reason why drug testing can only harm the sport, in my humble opinion. Dan --- malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm SHOCKED!!! Young 20-something bucks take off on the road for adventure without telling anyone. That's never happened before has it? Next thing you'll be telling me is that they stay out past 9pm! = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Disgraceful conduct at IAAF indoor 200m
Apart from physically removing the reluctant athlete (not great for PR), some other ideas have been to remove the blocks, to place cones or a hurdle in the lane, to have a large official stand in the middle of the lane or to load the starter's pistol with one live round Wouldn't the obvious fallback be to threaten the athlete with bans from future competitions? That's what happens in other sports when athletes refuse to play be the rules... Then again, TF seems to do everything in its power to not be taken seriously by the sporting public. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: IAAF shoots down Radcliffe plan
--- Kebba Tolbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why does the IAAF care what the gender of the pacer is? Distance athletes use pacers all the time. Heck MJ even used Kevin Braunskill as one in his 300m WR. I believe the key point is that a male rabbit can pace a woman throughout the entire race, whereas there are presumably no men not already in the race that could pace an elite male the whole way. Whether or not you care for rabbiting in races, allowing men to pace women completely changes the nature of the event. That's probably why the reference to what's next, cars? was made. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Interesting Developments
--- Ed Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The new international drug policy, for one. If they really mean it, and stick to their gunds, this might overcome the legal problems here in the U.S. Who is going to go to court with the knowledge that a successful bid would mean the U.S. is no longer in the Olympic Games. Can you imagine the coverage such a suit would get from whatever network has paid millions of dollars to cover the next Games. Which is exactly why such a policy has virtually no chance of being successfully implemented... Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Gebs Record Still Safe
What the heck was up with the second group (everyone but ElG)? Were they only in the race for the purpose of rabbiting late-race after getting lapped??? That's some pretty high quality athletes to be that far off the pace. Dan --- B. Kunnath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 8:06,61 2Laban Rotich KEN8:28,25 3Driss Maazouzi FRA 8:28,26 4Mohammed Amyn MAR 8:28,28 5Khoudir Aggoune ALG 8:29,75 6Kevin Sullivan CAN 8:30,08 7Said Chebili FRA8:31,57 8Irba Lakhal MAR 8:44,90 Salah Hissou MARDNF Graham Hood CAN DNF = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Pseudo-techno-crap
--- P N Heidenstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The greatest sprinter of all time (in terms of records as well as world and Olympic titles) was Carl Lewis - consistently a far slower starter than his opponents. Did he worry about that failing (if it was a failing?). Has anyone ever speculated on what his times might have been had he worked on his start? Did his coaches complain loudly? Was he a great sprinter in spite of his slow start, or a great sprinter because of his slow start? As great as Carl was, he had one opponent who was far better when on, who also happened to be probably the best starter ever. I'd say that pretty conclusively tells us that each athlete has different strengths and weaknesses. I.e., it's ludicrous to suggest a slower start might yield a faster overall time, unless the assumption is the athlete is incapable of starting fast in controlled fashion, which is equally ludicrous when considering world class athletes. Furthermore, do we really need to dive back into the topic of reaction time and early stages of the race being two completely distinct issues? I would venture to guess that there is no relationship whatsoever between the two. Dan = http://AbleDesign.com - Web Design Custom Programming http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: can I come back now? It depends...what do you think of Milli Vanilli?
From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's the doping that has an insidious effect on the sport, not the talk. I'm sure of it. That may be, but the drugs aren't going away no matter how tight we close our eyes. The talk (and perception), at least, we have a choice about. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
Going back a few posts... Representatives of Nike, with whom Jones has a multimillion-dollar contract, have tried to persuade her to sever the relationship with Francis, sources said. No disrespect intended to Phil, but I expect a somewhat more concrete reference than that. More importantly, though, my original statement was that I doubted this whole situation would have a negative impact on meet sponsors. (I added meet to the statement this time, but the context previously was about how it would likely add fan interest to meets.) As such, the Nike reference is not the sponsorship angle I was getting at. That's sponsorship of an individual athlete -- a very touchy subject with drugs -- not of an overall meet. With the latter, a sponsor can easily wiggle out from under and drug repercussions, as they can simply say they are supporting the meet as a whole or the clean athletes, not the questionable ones. Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: doubt it will have a negative impact on sponsors. Then why do news reports say that Nike has been trying to encourage Jones to disassociate herself from Francis? Dunno, I haven't seen those reports. Dan http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/5069699.htm Phil Hersh is a very reputable reporter, and wouldn't quote 'sources' unless he had something a lot stronger than a rumor. = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: IAAF is cautious on Charlie Francis statement against doping
... or more likely, Charlie is just saying what's expected of him at this point to get reinstated. He has allegedly been working with Tim for 2+ years, so if he believes it now, it would follow he believed it then. Not much reason to hide such a belief all this time unless he didn't actually believe it. Dan --- Kurt Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tim and Marion have proven to me that athletic performances at the very highest level can be achieved without resort to performance enhancing drugs, he said. IMHO, this is the most interesting part of Charlie's recent statement. Because if it's true and Tim and Marion have in fact shown him that it's possible to reach the very top without dope in 2003, then I assume that Charlie is smart enough to ponder for a moment and realize that such a possibility must have also existed in the past. That back when he was pointing the finger at every athlete at the top, maybe some of them, or many of them, or maybe even most of them, were actually clean. In other words, maybe Ben really was a no more than a second-tier sprinter who needed to use dope in order to beat clean athletes who were better than him. Kurt Bray = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: BACKGROUND FEATURE ON MARION, TIM AND THEIR COACH
My response to that same article: http://run-down.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=12418#12418 Dan --- Steve Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Published The Courier Mail, Saturday 1 Feb 2003 This was before Charlie's statement By MIKE HURST = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Regina record to test WMA sanity
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But here's the most AMAZING part: If Regina doesn't trot around with paperwork in hand and gets the needed signatures of timers, judges, etc., she won't get credit for a world masters record. Yes, not getting credit for a masters record is clearly more amazing than setting a world record and running her first sub-4 ever ... Indoors! Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Diack taken to task
Yes, but Mr. Dubin himself said Francis made his work easy by being so open with all the details. Of course Francis didn't share specifics of his doping program before getting caught -- that would have been idiotic -- but he certainly did not hide from them after the fact. If you accept the possibility that Francis was no more guilty than the majority of his peers, then his actions have been the closest thing to noble that the sport has produced. At the other end of the spectrum is the beer and sex arguments you mentioned. A reliable source told me the reason USATF bought the argument and cleared Mitchell is because he threatened to take everyone down with him. Given his role in USATF at the time (athlete's advisory, I believe) and knowledge of the doping situation, that was far from an empty threat. Funny, all the people involved in that situation are free to work as they choose. I guess that's what dishonesty gets you in this day and age. Dan --- Randall Northam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Difference was Francis wasn't being honest because he wanted to get it all off his chest. The Dubin enquiry was judicial. Had he lied he could have been done for perjury. No other coaches of athletes other than those in the Ben Johnson affair have been put in this position so they can claim sex, beer, naughty people spiking their drinks etc. etc. Randall Northam On Thursday, Jan 30, 2003, at 03:09 Europe/London, Dan Kaplan wrote: Others have been caught and been much less than honest with their explanations... Francis' motivations may have been at least partially due to book sales (post-Dubin), but he willingly shares enough that little is left to the imagination. = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would MM bother to show up, if the there is no $$ guarantee and prize money is the only carrot? Don't you think public interest will actually be *greater* after this controversy? If anything, the appearance fees should be higher. I doubt it will have a negative impact on sponsors. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Euro meet directors threaten to go nuclear
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't you think public interest will actually be *greater* after this controversy? If anything, the appearance fees should be higher. I doubt it will have a negative impact on sponsors. Then why do news reports say that Nike has been trying to encourage Jones to disassociate herself from Francis? Dunno, I haven't seen those reports. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Diack taken to task
--- Kurt Bray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Until people are convinced he is sincere, that he wouldn't create the whole sordid mess all over again if given the chance, he's not going to be welcome. That's assuming, of course, that he actually created the mess. I'm more inclined to think he merely played a big part in it and took the fall for a mess created long before his time and continued on long after it. I think it's great that Francis may be re-entering the sport (not that he really ever left it, apparently). Look at the effect just the rumors have had on the IAAF! They're scrambling around, trying to put out fires that aren't even lit yet. As I've said elsewhere, I think Francis' reputation (or is that his shadow?) has grown bigger than even the IAAF over the years. There is so much hiprocricy within the sport with regards to drugs that a wake-up call is exactly what is needed. And who better to provide it then the person who is regarded as the pre-eminent expert on the subject and known to not back away from it? Who really sympathizes with the IAAF wringing their hands over fears of having to answer questions about drugs all summer? If anyone created the whole sordid mess, it's the people in those circles. Let them figure it out. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Diack taken to task
--- ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately, we're also back at that same horrid place we've been so many times before, with track's governing bodies attempting to put out fires by pouring gasoline on them. I guess I didn't really state it clearly, but that is precisely why I think this is such a great opportunity to finally get the IAAF to clean up their act! Between Francis, Jones, and Montgomery -- and Nike probably has a wee bit of influence in that group -- I just don't see that this one can be put to bed quietly. There are a lot of very difficult questions on the table that I'd really like the IAAF make an attempt at answering. If Marion and Tim stay the course, the IAAF will have little choice but to do that or take the whole sport down with them... If the latter happens, something will surely rise up (eventually) to fill the void. --- Randall Northam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan You've confused me here. Not a difficult task I will admit but let me see if I've worked out your logic. The IAAF are upset at answering questions about drugs whereas if they turned a blind eye to it (in other words ignored the whole sordid mess) it would go away. Is that right? No, that's not quite what I meant. Ignoring it wouldn't make it go away, although it certainly could have been smoothed out somewhat. What I meant is that the IAAF created this very situation, and now it has come full circle and smacked them square between the eyes. There's no reason to feel sympathetic for their current plight, which is what they're angling for (there must be hundreds of good sprint coaches in the US, why Francis? Uh, maybe because a good coach doesn't quite cut it at the very top level?). If the IAAF said they had no problem with Francis coaching again you don't think there'd be an even bigger mess? I'm not sure. My gut feeling is the current mess would be much less, but the future mess is anyone's guess. I'd be curious for a show of hands: How many people on the list feel Charlie Francis is the only active TF coach who is a proponent of drug use? There are two reasons I can think of to single him out: 1) He's a known commodity (i.e. laziness) 2) He's a danger to the sport's management (i.e. fear) Neither is a very compelling reason in my mind to be the sole target of the IAAF's attacks... If Francis had his way, we'd have an incredibly exciting sport to watch, and much of the negativity we always complain about would fall be the wayside. I'm reminded of Tim Robbins' classic line from Shawshank Redemption; paraphrasing: The ironic thing is I was straight as an arrow on the outside. I had to go to jail to become a crook. Francis had to cheat and be busted to be revealed as one of the most honest people within the sport... Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Diack taken to task
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somebody mentioned his honesty. Didn't that come only AFTER he got caught? Others have been caught and been much less than honest with their explanations... Francis' motivations may have been at least partially due to book sales (post-Dubin), but he willingly shares enough that little is left to the imagination. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: More support for Francis...
--- Mike Prizy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why would someone want to brag about a time that was disqualified because it was assisted by performance enhancing drugs? This is from page one of Charlie's web site: How is 6.33 seconds for 60 meters or 9.79 seconds for 100meters while easing in to the finish? That's an easy question to answer. If Francis truly believes that any winner is on drugs in order to be at that level, then it is natural to take pride in the fact that his system produced the best drug-assisted athletes of all. Simply a level playing field. If an up and coming athlete believes likewise, would they go to a coach who has produced 9.9x or one who has produced 9.7x? If the reports are true that Francis has been working with Montgomery for the past 2 years, he could now claim a 9.78 and 9.79, and arguably both have tested clean... Going back to what I said about the IAAF creating this situation, we wouldn't even be having this discussion if it weren't for their muddling around. Instead, we could be fantasizing about seeing 10.4x and 9.6x over the next 2 years. But no, we'd rather complain about those people that are striving to accomplish exactly that which we want to see. Isn't that reason enough to do away with the drug testing farce? Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Drug cheat Mitchell to coach leading Britons
The Electronic Telegraph Mitchell, 36, has since established himself as a coach and has been credited for the emergence of American sprinters Bernard Williams and J J Johnson... I think they've got that backwards. If I'm not mistaken, both JJ and Bernard emerged prior to working with Mitchell, then more or less disappeared after switching to him this past year. Regis said: ... We sent Dwain Chambers to train in Miami 18 months ago and it's paid off... I thought Chambers was training in California with the Russian coach (Remy K. or whatever the name is I can never remember) last year? Wouldn't 18 months ago have placed it right in the middle of the European season? Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: NJSIAA sux...
Almost as ridiculous is refusing to leave the unsanctioned facility when told repeatedly to do so by officials with a history of harshly enforced rules. Doesn't justify the rule, but it also doesn't reflect all that well on the intelligence of the athletes in question. Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Listers, For all of you who have not heard of this utterly ridiculous action brought against 3 kids at a NJ state relay meet yesterday, hold on to your lap tops... Yesterday, 3 NJ HS boys (from the same team) were DQ'd before the start of the indoor state relay championships for warming up outside in an unsupervised facility!! It was reported that the boys were told repeatedly to get off of the outdoor facility, but refused. When they returned to the building to enter, they were met by 3 NJSIAA officials (and their coach was not present) who said they heard both sides of the story and decided to DQ the kids anyway. WHO IN THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE, AND WHY IS THEIR WORD LAW?! The same situation arose last year with the state's leading female hurdler, who claimed she entered her seed card, and an NJSIAA official said she didn't. The word of the official was law, and the girl was not allowed to run. I'm trying to figure out the intent of the NJSIAA. Is it to uplift the integrity of scholastic sports in NJ, or ego trip? I can understand a repremand, but to DQ runners outside the realm of competition is ridiculous. The team, without 3 of it's top runners, ended up losing the meet by 1 point... Larry A. Morgan Elizabeth Heat TC = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Mascot
You left out one important detail: Was the mascot you saw last night anywhere near as hideous as the one USATF was given? If not, then I beg to differ with, If they really were able to get it for free, its even better, as there will only be a gain financially from it. That overlooks the possibility that USATF could actually be hurt financially from it if it makes a joke of the sport and drives some fans away without attracting others... How much revenue does USATF draw from children in the form of spectators??? Is there any market research that indicates youth participation will actually go up as a result of mascots? Dan --- Michael J. Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To back Jill up on this one, they have the right idea on the Mascot, no matter how sick it turns your stomach. While attending a college basketball game last night, the school's Mascot entered the stands. One large section was devoted to a local CYO girls team that played during halftime. Those kids spent a good 10 minutes of the 2nd half playing with the Mascot and enjoying themselves at a game that would have held no memory or meaning at that point (other than the halftime game) as the home team was getting killed. These kids will come home from that game with a good memory of a fun experience, one the college game could not provide. This is the point of the Mascot, whatever they decide to call him/her/it. If they really were able to get it for free, its even better, as there will only be a gain financially from it. One question, will the Indy staff be taking turns inside the costume?? If so, I assume James will be exempt! MJR = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Mascot
I replied in private to Steve, but I see his response was also addressed to the list, so I will repeat my question to him. Should I be familiar with the Philly Phanatic? I'm guessing baseball? At any rate, my point still stands about first having to show that mascots (any mascot, let alone a butt ugly one) have a *positive* effect on finances. I know a lot of people will point to the Big 3 pro sports and their heavy use of mascots, but I'm not so sure that's a valid argument. Staying close to home, look at the Portland Trail Blazers. They have gone years without a mascot (they had some hill billy sasquatch thing back in the 80's that I'm not sure would count as a mascot), yet they've been among the most profitable NBA franchises and last I saw were something like the 2nd or 3rd most profitable franchise in all of pro sports. (As an aside, this is yet one more reason why I believe most journalists are non-thought capable idiots. They love to harp on the Blazers huge payroll, but they never bother to mention that they typically earn more money on that investment than teams with half the payroll. Simple arithmetic.) Going a step further, the Blazers decided to add a mascot -- a very ugly and heavily ridiculed one, no less -- and this has become easily the worst year in franchise history in terms of public perception. Obviously that is not all due to the mascot, but you can certainly make a strong case that stop gap measures which by themselves offer nothing positive certainly do not help to cover up a bad situation. Unfortunately, that sounds very similar to what USATF is attempting to do in a no financial cost endeavor. Dan --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/6/03 6:43:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You left out one important detail: Was the mascot you saw last night anywhere near as hideous as the one USATF was given? If not, then I beg to differ with, If they really were able to get it for free, its even better, as there will only be a gain financially from it. That overlooks the possibility that USATF could actually be hurt financially from it if it makes a joke of the sport and drives some fans away without attracting others... How much revenue does USATF draw from children in the form of spectators??? Is there any market research that indicates youth participation will actually go up as a result of mascots? Dan Dan, The Philly Phanatic is not exactly attractive. Steve S. = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: re: Mascot
Mascots attract kids, there is no debating this, anything to the contrary is pointless banter. I take it that's your way of saying you can't support the statement? I still haven't seen any evidence provided for the position that a mascot will directly help USATF financially. We already know it's done a disservice to the organization in terms of negative publicity -- and no, that has absolutely nothing to do with no matter what USATF does, people are going to crucify it; it's simply an awful mascot -- so I'm assuming there has to be some market research indicating that that factor can be overcome by having pictures taken with kids. Makes perfect sense. Go after the people without money and alienate the paying customers who might even be participants. Dan --- Michael J. Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Mascot has an equal stupidity look, but kids don't know the difference, so the point is moot. Mascots attract kids, there is no debating this, anything to the contrary is pointless banter. Whether the children are spectators or contestants (we're not talking Millrose here, but JO meets for appearances) this is a positive financial opportunity for USATF TnF as a whole. Kids will have something else to remember outside of the events they contest. The money to be made from pictures w/ the Mascot is huge, especially if it goes back to the Grass Roots programs (Associations), where it should. This is not an issue of youth participation numbers, as Mascot will not be at local/yocal meets (for the most part), but at Nationals where it will be an attraction piece. For years it has been difficult to make TF fun for kids, this is a good step in that direction. It just seems like another case where no matter what USATF does, people are going to crucify it. MJR = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
t-and-f: mascot theft
Some of you may already be aware of this, but in light of USATF's mascot borrowing and upcoming name finalization, we at Run-Down have chosen to give it an honorary 3rd home (for the second time): http://run-down.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1032 If you haven't gotten tired of ripping on the furball, feel free to chime in to that thread. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
--- Mike Prizy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I'm invisible, I'm not a target. That theory didn't work too well for Frodo in Part 1... Dan John Lunn wrote: Mike, Help me here. A runner should find a route farther away from auto trafficand further away from country roads where the senior set wants to make you dead right? And you have preferred to run at night with dark clothes on so that you can be an invisible moving target? I take it that this plan has worked well for you. JL Mike Prizy wrote: But why be dead right? If special clothing has to be worn with the intent of being seen by drivers, then maybe a route farther away from auto traffic needs to be found. I think bright clothing gives some runners a false sense of security. Having grown up in the South Suburbs of Chicago, I've had numerous run ins with cars and pedestrians. While in college, I was surprised at the number of run ins I had on country roads - not just with aggressive car loads of teenagers - but from the grandmas and grandpas who wouldn't yell or throw anything at us, but seemed set on making me/us dead right. For the last 20 years, most of my runs have been in the evening and in the dark, particularly in the winter months. People ask me if I ware reflective tape or material on my running gear. I tell them no, because I don't want to be a visible moving target. = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: A Brit weighs in
--- Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But however much she wins in the future, there is one aspect where the sprinter will never be mentioned in the same breath as Radcliffe. Integrity The author conveniently ignored one of the recently quoted Francis sentiments: If anyone is clean, it's going to be the losers, he said. The irony becomes that in order for an athlete to be an anti-doping advocate he must be ... on drugs. I don't see any other possibility because you have a situation where you have a choice to either break the rules or lose. Believe what you want... Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: yelling at runners (was: favortie sport...)
--- ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds so crazy I think I must be making it up, but did I read somewhere once (urban myth?) that there's some kind of inherent targeting mechanism in the brain that actually leads drivers in certain cases to swerve towards people (not just runners) on the side of the road? Not with any malice; sort of a can't-help-it thing. It's common knowledge in mountain biking that if you look at the rock you're trying to avoid, you'll hit it regardless. The same holds true for most anything: Look at it and you will unintentionally veer that direction. In the case of runners on the side of the road (I agree with Kurt Bray's assessment), we really are a novelty to much of the population. As such, it's only natural that people will look over and veer toward said runners whether or not they mean harm. I would also add that I've received all sorts of heckling and profanities pretty much everywhere I've run, with the major exception being Vancouver, B.C. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Call to axe Jones, Montgomery tour
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yet there are several coaches with excellent credentials for the bio-mechanical analysis that MJ says she's looking for. Why pick one with such a bad rap? If you were in her shoes, wouldn't you want to work with the absolute best? When you're chasing some of the toughest records in the sport, a merely excellent coach may not be enough to get there. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Deena doubts move by MJ
Also, rumor has it that Francis has been involved with Montgomery's coaching for some time now, so this may well be a natural progression of the situation. Tim has a major breakthrough the past two seasons, so Marion wants a bit of what he's got (on the track, strictly speaking) and he wants even more of it. Dan --- John Hunter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok...I'm in...I've been biting my tounge all week on this... Why should any coach feel snubbed? If Marion and Tim are trying to compete at levels never previously achieved, that has NOTHING to do with snubbing a coach that lives in the US. This is not about patriotism (btw, I'm a US citizen). It's about 2 of the best athletes on the planet making a proactive choice about their training (regardless of if we agree or not). Quite honestly, I find it humorous that so much handwringing is occuring over the Jones/Montgomery coaching change. The point is this: If Marion and/or Tim lost confidence in their coaching situation and training (regardless of Trevor's success with them), then they would have lost a crucial mental edge that is vital, if not mandatory, when performing at the highest level of our sport. The moment that confidence was lost, it was a done deal. Yes, the choice will make people ask questions, but I doubt that two athletes with as much at stake as Marion and Tim would've made a hasty decision. They are well aware of what they are doing. I also think it is unfair to prematurely taint Marion's and Tim's integrity (without cause and/or evidence) as athletes because of their choice of coach. That is just so knee-jerk and easy. Merry Christmas. JJ Hunter (no relation to CJ) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martin J. Dixon) CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Deena doubts move by MJ Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 21:26:50 -0500 Good comments from Martin, eh? One question I'd like to see someone address is: What do American track coaches think about two Americans having to go to Canada for needed expertise? Not that Canada doesn't have coaching talent, but it IS a little far from North Carolina. Wish someone would talk to Tellez, John Smith, etc. (or Randy Huntington for the jumps). Any coaches on the List feel USA is being snubbed? Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virusxAPID=42PS=47575PI=7324DI=7474SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsgHL=1216hotmailtaglines_eliminateviruses_3mf = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Fwd: Reuters Francis Refuses Comment on Reported Link with Jones
LONDON (Reuters) ... Francis told Reuters from his home in Toronto that he never commented about anybody he coached in any sport. Someone else must've written his two books, then. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: TFN names AOYs
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) than Guevara, who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive 400s, whereas feofanova was much better qualitatively ... When is the last time a female 400m runner posted a better sequence of marks and went undefeated in the process? ... shows that a certain American bias still exists when the panel votes. Last I checked, Guevara is no more of an American than I am. If there's any bias in this country, it's *against* Mexico, not in favor of it. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: TFN names AOYs
While that may be technically correct, I doubt you'll find many people who would support the view that American refers to anything other than a citizen of the United States. Nice try, though. :-) Dan --- Uri Goldbourt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: American, my friend, is anyone living in the continentes of North an South America, not just the USA. === - Original Message - From: Dan Kaplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 4:25 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: TFN names AOYs --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reasonable results, but Feofanova getting fewer votes (by far!) than Guevara, who may have beaten everybody but running not terribly impressive 400s, whereas feofanova was much better qualitatively ... When is the last time a female 400m runner posted a better sequence of marks and went undefeated in the process? ... shows that a certain American bias still exists when the panel votes. Last I checked, Guevara is no more of an American than I am. If there's any bias in this country, it's *against* Mexico, not in favor of it. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: FW: April Fool's day at USATF Convention
Whoa... Has anyone mentioned FATSU yet? Sort of appropriate, being a fatso USATF mascot... Dan --- ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This defies belief. Go to www.usatf.org and check out the right-hand side of the home page. I think this was an early reject in the contest that Whatzit won in '92 for Atlanta. The Apocalypse is upon us... gh = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
re: t-and-f: d3 xc results
--- Michael J. Roth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I missing something?? There is no tie for 8th place. B-W beats Elmhurst on the 6th place finisher, in fact all 7 were in before the 5 from Elmhurst. As I've heard it explained, NCAA rules state that ties are never broken unless it is for qualifying purposes. I believe that also includes Championship meets. The 6th runner tie breaker deal seems to be a carry-over from high school that few people realize doesn't exist in the college rule books... Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: t-and-f: Track rules (was: banned high jump technique)
If the 400 has proven capable of being highly entertaining in a relay setting, why not stick with the distance and just run it with a waterfall start? It works for the 800. If you increase the 400 by 25%, you're getting far enough away from sprint territory that you'll basically end up with a short 800. That's basically twice as far as anyone can sprint for, so I don't see it appealing to too many people. Dan --- ghill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've long been an advocate of the 500, mainly because it would make for a long sprint that's actually exciting. There's nothing more thrilling than watching guys duelling down the backstretch at high speed in a 4x4, but when you put them in lanes it sucks just about every last bit of thrill out of it. I'd love to see 400s run from a waterfall start (roller derby lives!) but since the death toll would be unacceptable, that's why the 500 is so appealing. Put everybody at the 100 start (no blocks) at a bit of a tangent and let them break for the pole at the end of the straight. Then you get a kick-ass 400 run out of lane 1. It would also be a terrific event numerologically, with the 1-minute barrier being a great marker for international-class running. = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
Re: t-and-f: Track rules (was: banned high jump technique)
Sorry, I mis-phrased what I meant to say. I don't like waterfall starts on the turn... I was thinking 1-turn stagger with a 100m break line like the 800, making for 300m run without lanes. Dan If the 400 has proven capable of being highly entertaining in a relay setting, why not stick with the distance and just run it with a waterfall start? It works for the 800. Or, like a big-league 800, run the first curve in lanes, break at the top of the stretch. = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
Re: t-and-f: Track rules (was: banned high jump technique)
Or could ignore the common finishline and run it center-to-center, giving you 50m of straightaway before the break. I know a coach who sets up all his intervals that way. He says he likes it because it makes it easier to get from one side of the track to the other for calling out splits. Not sure how that equates to spectating enjoyment, though. Dan = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
t-and-f: Fwd: Lady marathoner dies
Obeying all but the last request... --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not a subscriber to the TF chatlist but I examine its archive weekly and read messages with interesting subject lines. The subject does not always reflect the actual message content, and the archive omits some list posts, so forgive me if the following has already appeared. At the Marine Corps Marathon on 27 Oct 2002 in Washington (D.C.) a female competitor stopped at about 21 miles to seek medical help and was taken by ambulance to a nearby hospital. She died two days later, according to the Washington Post -- which identified her as Hilary Bellamy, age 35. While doing some minor volunteer service at this marathon, I saw ambulances heading toward the 21-mile mark but I did not then know how serious the incident was. Because TF list subscribers have in the past discussed other deaths in athletics (e.g. pole vault) they may appreciate your sharing this news item. There is no need to credit or mention me as a source. James Fields = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Even RARER books for sale
And I thought it was in reference to the recent Once A Runner thread... Dan --- Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think he was just kidding. Regards, Martin Scott Davis wrote: Dear Mr. Heidenstrom, I was quite disappointed to get this message from you. First, I need to correct your information. You are incorrect when you say that Archie signed all of his books. This is completely flase. In fact, of the some odd 40-50 of his books that I have bought and sold over the years, at least 75% of them were NOT signed. Also, your statement about the 1959 edition is not right. I currently have two of the copies and you claim to have a third; I would be interested in hearing from the other TWO people who own a copy. The book is quite scarce but there are more than five available, I assure you. I am quite offened by your statement which indicates you will not sell to scalpers, implying that I may be one. You should know that I have bought and sold some of the largest libraries and collections available in the US and world wide over the past 25 years, including the Amos Alonzo Stagg collection, the Maxwell Stiles collection and the holdings from the Robert Kaiser estate. I am well familar with the scarcity of certain items and their associated value. I sell material to true track fans at very reasonable prices. I have always worked on the theory that if I can buy something at a very reasonable price then I will sell it at a very reasonable price. As an example, and I have not yet advertised this book, I have a copy from Don's collection of the 1912 Swedish Olympic report. This is a scarce book to say the least. I purchased my copy of this book in Stockholm some years back for 350 US dollars. It is well worth 500-600 US dollars at this time. However, I will sell Don's copy some day for right around 150-200 US dollars once I find a fan who is truly interested in having the copy once owned by the maestro. Again, regarding the Potts material, you should know that I am trying to place as many of these of these items in the hands of true track fans who appreciate the fact that they were once owned by Don. The money is going to the Potts family, not to me. I am taking only my expenses for postage and shipping cartons. And I am putting very low prices on these items for those very reasons. If you want to sell your copies of the Little Black Book for a penny each, that is totally up to you. But your implications of what I am trying to do with Don's copies are simply unacceptable. Finally, since you are a former ATFS member and someone who knew Don, I am saddened that you would think I would dishonor his memory by selling off his material for his family at scalpers prices. Sincerely, Scott Davis Secretary General - ATFS, President - FAST P N Heidenstrom wrote: FOR SALE Archie's Little Black Book, 1953 Edition - S, XF, 100 pgs., RARE (signed by Archie - which he did for every copy sold). New price $1.00 AND Archie's Little Black Book, 1959 Edition - S, XF. 90 pgs.THIS COPY IS NOT MERELY RARE, BUT UNIQUE AND PRICELESS - being a pre-release copy, signed person-to-person by Archie, with his messages of thanks, plus in-text acknowledgements. World-wide, a maximum of five such copies were ever issued. Original price $1.00. ELSEWHERE PRICED AT $50. My price $0.02 (one cent each) for anybody who cares to pay the postage from New Zealand. Apply off-line. First come, first served. This is a genuine offer for genuine fans - NO SCALPERS PLEASE. WHY PAY $50 ? ? ? = http://AccountBiller.com - MyCalendar, D-Man, ReSearch, etc. http://Run-Down.com - 10,000 Running Links, Fantasy TF @o Dan Kaplan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] |\/ ^- ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) _/ \ \/\ (503)370-9969 phone/fax / / __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
