Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Mapping Party in Cape Town area?
I'm keen. -Original Message- From: Grant Slater Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2012 9:33 PM To: Openstreetmap ZA Subject: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Mapping Party in Cape Town area? Talk-ZA, Anyone up for an OpenStreetMap mapping party in the Cape Town area around the beginning of November? I'll be in town. Any suggestions for a venue? There are many fresh faces and it will be good to have a fun, social mapping meet. Regards Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] South African Tagging Guidelines?
EPI-USE StationeryHi Rickus As far as I know, you are using unclassified correctly. As for the dirt road, I am used to using highway=track. You can use tracktype as a second tag on the feature marked as highway=track to denote how good the surface is (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrack). highway=road is meant as a temporary tag when you don't know how to classify the road. Another mapper can then come along and tag it correctly. The Map Features page has these definitions (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Highway). I think the South African Tagging Guidelines page helps for things like M / R / N classifications, but we still need to use the main page for ones that aren't South African specific. Hope this helps. Someone else please correct me if I am wrong with any of this. Regards, Brendan Barrett From: Rickus Viljoen Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 2:05 AM To: talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-Talk-ZA] South African Tagging Guidelines? Hi I've been looking at the 'SA Tagging Guidelines' page. I'm wondering how I should tag 'dirt roads'. I have seen others in SA have used any of the following... - highway=tertiary or - tracktype=grade2 - highway=road - highway=unclassified Also how should I tag a 'paved/tarred' road that is not an R or M road but that is also not a 'residential' road. Currently I use 'unclassified'. Any comments please and maybe we can update the SA Tagging Guidelines page with a bit more detail. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/South_African_Tagging_Guidelines Keep up the mapping! Rickus Viljoen ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] OSM Cape Town meetup - Jan 18th
Ok, just spoke to someone from Ricks. They'll only reserve a spot if we're eating. Fair enough. My feeling is that i'd prefer drinks outside over a dinner table inside in any case, so let's not bother with the booking and just arrive. It's a Monday and they said they're usually not that busy, so I don't think we'll have a problem finding a nice spot. If someone get's hungry, i'm sure there will be space. Thoughts? Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:04 PM To: Brendan Barrett brendanbarr...@live.co.za Cc: Openstreetmap ZA talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] OSM Cape Town meetup - Jan 18th Ricks Cafe sounds great. I'll be there. Nice, free wireless interwebs. Early works well for me. 6pm. Others when they can. / Grant 2010/1/8 Brendan Barrett brendanbarr...@live.co.za: Ok, chatted to Trevor and we're keen to make it Ricks Cafe (http://www.rickscafe.co.za). ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] OSM Cape Town meetup - Jan 18th
Hey Grant, I am definitely in. Not fussy where. Can you confirm if you mean the 18th or 28th? (subject line says 18th). Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 12:47 AM To: Openstreetmap ZA talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-Talk-ZA] OSM Cape Town meetup - Jan 18th Capetonians, I'm in Cape Town on the 28th Jan, how about a mappers meet in Cape Town? The Joburg meet was a great success. Can anyone recommend a simple venue? Open in the evening, quietish and near beer. Southern Suburbs or City Bowl prefered. What is Relish in Tamboerskloof like? http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/48951653 Anyone in? Say from 6pm. / Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] OSM Cape Town meetup - Jan 18th
Last time I was there was about a year ago (was definitely not an adult entertainment facility:P). Not sure about the website:/ I just tried to call, and got no answer. I can try again later. Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:01 PM To: Brendan Barrett brendanbarr...@live.co.za Cc: Openstreetmap ZA talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] OSM Cape Town meetup - Jan 18th 2010/1/5 Brendan Barrett brendanbarr...@live.co.za: Can you confirm if you mean the 18th or 28th? (subject line says 18th). woops. 18th Jan 2010 @ 6pm. All welcome, the more the merrier. Please come along even if you are completely new to OpenStreetMap. Can anyone in Cape Town confirm if Relish in Tamboerskloof ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/48951653 ) is a suitable venue? Their website seems to have been taken over by a dodgy adult website. / Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] CD:SM Topographic map of ZA
Sure, while we're at it, let's ask for all their electronic mapping again. Perhaps we'll have better luck this time. I have a copy of their electronic maps (shape file and raster). Naturally, we don't have permission to use, so I have done nothing with it yet. Now is probably as good a time as any to ask permission again. I'm pretty swamped with work at the moment, but let me see what contact details I can dig up and let's see where this goes. I'll mail you directly later this morning. Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 2:52 PM To: Openstreetmap ZA talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-Talk-ZA] CD:SM Topographic map of ZA Hi Guys, The Chief Directorate Surveys and Mapping (CD:SM) during the 1980s and 1990s produced some lovely 1:5 topographic maps of SA. CD:SM offices sell these map sheets at the cost of distribution, around R22 each last I heard. I have a full scanned set of these from a group called MadMappers.com As a short term experiment, I've turned [1] a selection of them into a slippy. (My bit of the Eastern Cape) http://grant.dev.openstreetmap.org/cdsm-tiles-test-DO-NOT-USE/ Map legend is available here: http://madmappers.com/htm/SA50k_legend.htm Please do not yet use these maps for deriving any data yet. I still need to check with CD:SM on usage terms. Brendan want to help? :-) 1: Procedure: MrSid from MapMappers - (mrsidgeodecode) GeoTiff - (gdalwarp) warped epsg:4326 to epsg:900913 - created mapnik stylesheet http://grant.dev.openstreetmap.org/cdsm-tiles-test-DO-NOT-USE/imagery.xml - mapnik generate_tiles.py - done Regards Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] More Name Changes
Hmmm... so we wait for the Welcome to ... signs to change:P Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 4:19 PM To: Brendan Barrett brendanbarr...@live.co.za Cc: Openstreetmap ZA talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] More Name Changes 2009/10/22 Brendan Barrett brendanbarr...@live.co.za: There will probably be more in the news over the next few weeks. At what point do we start changing names in OSM? After a naming dispute in North Cyprus, an on the ground rule was created: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#On_the_Ground_Rule It would be worth watching to see what comes of the DA / FF+ / Afrikanerbond complaints. As mentioned, the Nelspruit - Mbombela name change only seems to become official after the world cup. Regards Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Cape Town Mapping Party
Yup... it's going ahead. I've got 4 people (me and 3 others) definitely attending. Even if it's just a handful of people going, we'll still be there. Can we get a quick hands up of those still keen to join? It'd be nice to meet the others mapping in and around Cape Town. Regards, Brendan Barrett From: Trevor Hughes Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:38 PM To: Brendan Barrett Subject: Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Cape Town Mapping Party On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Brendan Barrett brendanbarr...@live.co.za wrote: Hey Does anyone need a GPS for the 20th? (Assuming the 20th is ok for everyone). Grant has offered to ship 3 (possibly 4) down if we need them. On a side note, I'm going to check out the areas this weekend if I have time and i'll try find a meeting spot. Is the mapping session still going ahead - it is only 5 days till Sunday. Just want to get my social calendar in order. Brendan did you decide on a starting venue and time yet? I am still keen for Sunday morning - your mobile HSDPA wireless hotspot sounds very cool. Trev (ps I am never sure that my emails make the list as gmail very annoyingly hides my own emails from me so please do reply!) ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] brainstorm article about City of Joburg
This is a very good article Heather. In my opinion, you have framed the issue perfectly. Thanks for writing about this. Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Heather Ford hfor...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 4:02 AM To: Openstreetmap ZA talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-Talk-ZA] brainstorm article about City of Joburg Feature about Joburg's closed data policies now on Brainstorm: http://www.brainstormmag.co.za/index.php? option=com_contentview=articleid=3475:mapping-the-world-class- african-citycatid=43:in-depth-analysisItemid=86 Would love to hear your opinions - as well as what the current status is and how you think we could get them to listen? Best, Heather. Heather Ford = Mobile: +1 510 338 2342 Twitter: http://twitter.com/hfordsa http://www.hblog.org/ skype: heatherford aim: queenbea878 ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
[OSM-Talk-ZA] Cape Town Mapping Party
Hey Does anyone need a GPS for the 20th? (Assuming the 20th is ok for everyone). Grant has offered to ship 3 (possibly 4) down if we need them. On a side note, I'm going to check out the areas this weekend if I have time and i'll try find a meeting spot. Regards, Brendan Barrett___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] September Events
I suppose this could be a team effort:P To start... could those of us going to the Cape Town event mak a quick vote on date and venue? There are 8 of us already, and perhaps one or two more people that I know may join too. I'll start: Date: 20th Venue: Don't really mind, but just because we need a tally, i'll kick the vote off with Bloudberg / Sunningdale / Parklands. I suppose once we have a general area, we can get a few suggestions together for a meeting point. Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:20 PM To: Openstreetmap ZA talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-Talk-ZA] September Events Hi Guys, Can someone take charge of (and cleanup) these 2 events? [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cape_Town_mapping_party_-_September_2009 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Gauteng_mapping_party_-_September_2009 Just something informal and relaxed... Coffee shops as central point work well. Regards Grant 1: My physical distance separation is a problem and the sysadmin work is zapping my time. eg: http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Servers/Upgrades/082009 ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] New Member Intro
Welcome to OpenStreetMap Zakiyya I don't map using my phone (it doesn't have a GPS), but there is no reason to loose your maps on your phone. From what I understand, there are two ways to map using your phone: 1. Install software on the phone that will help you map while you are using your phone. I know these applications are out there, but haven't used them. Perhaps someone else on the list could explain further. 2. Copy the GPS trace off your phone after your trip, and trace over the GPS trace in one of the mapping applications built for OpenStreetMap on your computer. (I'd recommend this as the easier of the two). Perhaps another member will step in here and provide more details on mapping with an E71. I'm not sure how much you know about the project (where all the information is, South African tagging standards etc), but i'm quite happy to help get you on your feet, and i'm sure there are many others here that feel the same. I suppose the best I can do as a start is paste a few links that can get you started: Main Wiki Page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page Beginners' Guide http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_Guide South African Wiki Page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_South_Africa South African Tagging Standards http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/South_African_Tagging_Guidelines Mailing Lists - you've already signed up on the South African list, but just so that you are aware of the others: a.. The full set of mailing lists can be found here: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo b.. If you'd like, there is a mailing list for new OpenStreetMap members you can often get answers very quickly: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/newbies Editors (Software that we use for editing OpenStreetMap data) a.. JOSM (Java OpenStreetMap Editor) It can take a little while to figure out how to get started with it, but it has a lot of advanced features and plugins. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM a.. Merkaartor is easier to get started with and use, but because it's a relatively new editor compared to JOSM, it lacks some of the more advanced features. It should have everything that you need to get going though. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Merkaartor a.. Potlach is online editor that you can find on the OpenStreetMap webpage (http://www.openstreetmap.org) when you click on the edit tab. I don't use it, so I can't comment on it much. Good luck Regards, Brendan Barrett From: Zakiyya Ismail Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:10 PM To: talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-Talk-ZA] New Member Intro Hi Everybody I'm Zakiyya, living in Featherbrooke/Ruimsig and recently discovered the openstreetmap project - I think I read about it in the Getaway mag. I joined, because 1) This is something I would love to learn about 2) I'd really like to contribute by adding details to the map 3) I'd be happy to train and organise groups once I know to actually work the system What would I be interested in capturing? At this point anything that is needed - roads, suburbs ect, but my later interests would be to add kid friendly places of interest, recreational things for kids (I guess you can tell I am a mom). Political interest. I love going to the Kruger Park - that would be something I could help with as well. I haven't actually gotten started, but I have a Nokia E71, and I need to install the necessary software which I am afraid to do since I don't want to lose my current GPS maps - it gets me to many places, so any advice in that regard would be useful. Looking forward to interacting with you. Zakiyya ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Introduction
Hi Eduard Welcome to OpenStreetMap! I see that you have signed up to the mapping party on the weekend of the 19th / 20th (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cape_Town_mapping_party_-_September_2009). It'll be good to see you there. In the mean time, have you looked here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners%27_Guide ? Regards, Brendan Barrett From: Eduard Grebe Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 3:21 PM To: talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Introduction Dear All I apologise for bombarding your mailboxes. I am very keen on OSM, but am a complete beginner when it comes to recording and uploading traces etc. If someone feels like taking me with when they next do it, I'd be very glad. I own an Android phone with GPS, so there is software that can log traces. I live in the CBD. Best Eduard -- Eduard Grebe AIDS Society Research Unit Contact: http://card.ly/eduardgrebe ASRU: http://www.cssr.uct.ac.za/asru ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-talk] Awards
Nice idea, but I really wouldn't want to see OSM data polluted / innaccurate. It would set a precedent. Unless of course we force that user to stay on that street (then we would just be mapping what we see on the ground):P Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:13 AM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Awards There are plenty of unnamed streets on the map - where in the real world no name has been assigned by the local authority. We could name those streets after top OSM contributors. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Awards
While there may be easter eggs in OSM added by some users... I was of the opinion that we do not do this in OSM. I've advised anyone i've ever spoken to on the topic not to put easter eggs into OSM. I was under the impression that the data itself was easy enough to compare to a copy. The use of easter eggs is also questionable. We seem to be going through great lengths to eradicate problems caused by easter eggs (I think there was a forum post relating to roads in Australian commercial maps), why put them into our database when their value is questionable? Either way, I don't think that easter eggs justify willfully adding fake data to the map. I couldn't be bothered if someone wanted to take a copy of the OSM data, and provide their own modifications in a rendered version, but to put this data into the main OSM database should be discouraged wherever possible. Also, is there not a risk of every newbie wanting their own road? Where do we draw the line? Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 1:18 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Awards On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Till Harbaum / Lists wrote: But that all doesn't give us a reason to add artificial, misleading and useless information to the osm maps. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Copyright_Easter_Eggs -- BOFH excuse #233: TCP/IP UDP alarm threshold is set too low. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Table View road names
Hey Adrian Yes, we have the data. It just hasn't been imported yet. I have a copy of the OSM file. It's just under 5MB compressed, so i'll mail it directly to you if you'd like. In terms of permission, we are allowed to import this data. It was given to us by the City for OSM import purposes. Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Adrian Moisey adr...@changeover.za.net Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 9:10 AM To: talk-za@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Table View road names Hi I've noticed that the Table View area (http://osm.org/go/kPdcPcWC--) is mapped well but has no road names. The street names are on http://web1.capetown.gov.za/streetfinder/ so I can easily use that to grab the names. I was wondering if the cape town government supplied data import contains this area? If so, can someone send it to me so I can import it? Adrian (Frith)? Regards, Adrian (Moisey). ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Durban import
Grant, That's great. If we spot other areas that are misaligned, would we be able to pass those on as well? Don't have any off hand, but curious to know if we could pass them on when we find them? Regards, Brendan Barrett -- From: Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:19 AM To: Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com Cc: Openstreetmap ZA Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Durban import 2009/8/10 Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com: Hi Russell, Grant spoke to someone from Y! Maps at SOTM09 about it. He said Grant should email him and he would pass it on. Director of Engineering, Yahoo! Geo Technologies Which I then promptly forgot about I'll email him now... fingers crossed it'll be fixed quick. / Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
[OSM-Talk-ZA] FW: [OSM-talk] keepright! goes global
Hey all For those of you that do not monitor the Talk mailing list... keepright now covers pretty much the whole world! It is an automated error reporting tool for OpenStreetMap that points out errors in the map data. Currently, it is pointing out thousands of errors here in SA that would have been very difficult to spot otherwise. Check it out some time... but please be careful, fixing errors becomes addictive! Regards, Brendan Barrett Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 12:53:31 +0200 From: e9625...@gmx.at To: t...@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] ! goes global ...well, almost. From now on, the site http://keepright.ipax.at will provide data consistency checks not only for Europe but also for Africa, Asia and South America. Australia is already covered by the keepright partner site at http://keepright.x10hosting.com/ What's still missing in the list is North America. Volunteers who want to donate computing power are welcome to join. All you need is a medium-sized PC running Linux and a little bit of time to manage running the program. Have a nice weekend! Harald ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk _ More than messages–check out the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Local Mapping Parties
Seconded. It looks like a pretty straightforward area to map. The parks in the area might make for an easy meeting place (looks like there's a shopping mall near the N7 as well). Regards, Brendan Barrett From: adr...@frith.co.za To: talk-za@openstreetmap.org Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:36:01 +0200 Subject: Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Local Mapping Parties On Fri, 2009-07-17 at 12:28 +0100, Grant Slater wrote: Can anyone suggest any venues for a mapping party? For a Cape Town party, the Edgemead/Bothasig area might be good - there's been a lot of development there recently which isn't all in the data we got from the City Council. Cheers, Adrian ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za _ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. http://www.microsoft.com/southafrica/windows/windowslive/products/photo-gallery-edit.aspx ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
[OSM-Talk-ZA] Cape Town meet
Hey ZA mappers We've had a lot of success with Data Imports in South Africa recently. And there has been a lot of mapping activity. With this in mind, there have been suggestions of two mapping parties.. one up country... and one in Cape Town. Living in the Cape, i'm interested in the Cape Town meet. I've added some content to the Cape Town event page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cape_Town_mapping_party_-_September_2009 Feel free to update the page at your leisure. The idea is to have a meet in September sometime to map an area / introduce new mappers to OSM / have a beer(or drink of choice) / find out who all the other mappers are etc. I missed out on the Hout Bay one (only joined the project after). It would have been a much easier intro to OSM if I had gone. Can we get a show of hands of those Cape Town mappers that would be able and willing to attend? If you've been following the mailing list, you'll notice that no dates have been set, and venues are open to change. Regards, Brendan Barrett _ More than messages–check out the rest of the Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
[OSM-Talk-ZA] Drakenstein Municipality Data
Hello SA Mappers Friday's are always a good day for some good news. I've just gotten back from the Drakenstein Municipality (Paarl). They make and own their own data (have their own spatial planning department), and have given us a copy of the data so that we can upload it into OpenStreetMap. The department is pretty jacked up and they seem on top of their game. They did not want to sign any licences etc because they don't want to be held liable for discrepancies in the data etc, but are more than keen for us to use the data (something like Cape Town). I've also sent the lady I was dealing with some detail on OSM, and will be following it up with some more information on how we map at some point so that they can get more involved if they wish. The area covered is quite big (Paarl / Wellington and some surrounding area), and the data includes rivers, cadastral info, roads, rail etc. The compressed file size is 3554KB. Looking at it, it really is a nice dataset. Hands up to be involved in the import? The first step would be converting the data (Adrian... you up for that?). From what I see in the area... I would think the best approach is to wipe what is currently there, and load this data up instead. Regards, Brendan Barrett _ See all the ways you can stay connected to friends and family http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
I agree with Martin. It would be nice to keep the map prominent on the home page... but add more interactivity. Permalinks with markers would be a big advantage as it would make the map more functional without adding too much overhead. When I want to point something out to someone, I send the URL of the area they should view and say take a look at the [insert colour here] part in the middle, you'll find it there. I think a big first step for people becoming involved in the project is for them to start using it in every day life. Perhaps a compromise would be to have some links to other versions of the map with a small thumbnail of what they look like (like the cycle map), as well as some basic drawing ability (permalink ruler maybe?). Thoughts? Regards, Brendan 2009/6/16 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2009/6/16 Peter Dörrie peter.doer...@googlemail.com: Well, but it is an issue that the map we show off now, is not exactly feature rich (plain text: is nothing to show off). So I think the discussion is warranted to either add more bliing bling to the map, or give it a less dominant status. I personally prefer the second approach. The map on osm.org is mainly a working tool. It is not shiny, but it has a purpose and it does itss job well. So we should present it that way and give the first row advantage to those shiny feature-laden applications that serve well to impress and convince new people of OSM. I disagree because I think, the map is the best way to show our potential (and is also used to serve access to online(potlatch-)editors and to export data). Some more features wouldn't harm though, if inserted into the common interface without any cluttering (e.g. intelligent search, GUI for adding markers in permalinks, etc.). Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Shaun McDonaldsh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: Would zooming based on IP Address be a good idea? Already done to the country level. I'm in South Africa... and it defaults to the UK for me. Obviously if I return to the site, then the cookie kicks in and the map shows me the last viewed area (regardless of whether I have logged in or not). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Anyone got GPS location for these?
Those things are great... drive past them up the west coast every time I go. If no-one has mapped them by next time I go, then i'll definitely do so (might be a little while still till I go next). They're just off the R27 up at the Darling turn off. The last time I went up, the blades were stopped due to some maintenance agreement. I really hope they have sorted that all out. Regards, Brendan 2009/6/16 Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com: Wind Turbines - WC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8097882.stm / Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Anyone got GPS location for these?
Ok, I couldn't wait and emailed Mr Oelsner for the coordinates. I'll let you know if I get them. Regards, Brendan Barrett On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 10:32 AM, brendan barrettshogun...@gmail.com wrote: Those things are great... drive past them up the west coast every time I go. If no-one has mapped them by next time I go, then i'll definitely do so (might be a little while still till I go next). They're just off the R27 up at the Darling turn off. The last time I went up, the blades were stopped due to some maintenance agreement. I really hope they have sorted that all out. Regards, Brendan 2009/6/16 Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com: Wind Turbines - WC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8097882.stm / Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] State Copyright on Spatial Information Products
Agreed, we want to keep whiter than white, which is why we've been going to great lengths to get permission from gov (SG, CD, SITA)... even though the municipalities (and even some private mapping companies - in Stellies and Mpumalanga) are literally throwing data at us. I've got CD's and emailed files from all over the place... all with one thing in common... it's all state copyright, and they can't grant us permission to distribute. From what we can tell, that power lies with SITA. As of yet, we are still awaiting a response from SITA on the use of maps under state copyright within OSM. We were supposed to have a response nearly two weeks ago, but it appears that we are not high on their priority list (and yes, we've been following up... but patience is a virtue). To be honest, I doubt that they will allow us to use their data. I think they have the interests of the bigger private mapping companies at heart. I have a feeling we will have to continue mapping SA on our aces. The one thing that I am quite happy about is that there is a little activity on the mailing list:D Nic's comment: We can consider tracing from State aerial photos... That's not a half bad idea. When I spoke to City of Cape Town, they said that they didn't want to release their aerial photography because they needed to recover the cost of production. Perhaps gov wouldn't mind releasing aerial photos for us to trace off if we only allow a limited number of users to trace off the data. We would have no intentions of distributing it, just deriving street data. We could set up a WMS layer with the data and only allow some local users access? Might not make sense for Cape Town (already pretty well mapped - and we have Cape Town GIS data already). Then again... if they don't allow us to use their shape file data... there's little hope of using the photography to trace off isn't there:/ Regards, Brendan On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Nic Roetsnro...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Bernd Jendrissek bernd.jendris...@gmail.com wrote: The or parts thereof also leaves me thinking that using includes making derivative works. The sentence or two describing the required acknowledgement of State Copyright would also be moot if this was just a matter of reading a book. A suitable statement ... must be included with such product seems to me to be contemplating said person or private sector organisation (re)distributing a (possibly derived) work. Well spotted. The acknowledgement requirement indicates that some forms of redistribution is allowed. My guess is that the writer was thinking about * the case where someone bundles his software with State data to N (specific) clients, so he asks the government for N copies of the data and they give him one copy and tell him to make his own copies. * or where someone combines State data with data from other sources to make a specific map. Like an environmental impact study. But it's not clear if it's redistribution with or without fee and if it refers to redistribution of a substantial part or only a few excepts (e.g. fair use / fair trading). OSM has so far not taken risks like these. See e.g. http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100 We can consider tracing from State aerial photos. If the may use such products wording does not protect us, then we use Richard's argument that tracing is not copying. ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
[OSM-Talk-ZA] Cape Town looking good!
Is it just me or is Cape Town starting to look pretty good! I see there are one or two new users adding to the Northern Suburbs by tagging schools and parks etc. I think the addition of these area shapes is starting to add a little more substance to the map. This evening I mapped out Tygerberg Nature Reserve using Yahoo imagery. If anyone with local knowledge of the reserve itself has a chance, won't you take a look at what i've done and check that it's ok. I'm not sure if the reserve itself extends as far back as i've drawn it. The northern end may just be leisure=park, but i've tagged the whole area as nature_reserve. Also, the road on top... I can't tell if it's track or unclassified (or even service?). I've gone with unclassified. Regards, Brendan ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-talk] Languages
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Stephan Plepelits sk...@xover.htu.tuwien.ac.at wrote: Which are the countries with german language? - Germany (ok, that's easy) - Austria (people who don't confuse it with Austrlia should know) - Switzerland (but not in all parts) - Some villages in Brazil I suppose - In Trannsylvania it might have been relevant, but the German population decreased in the last century You forgot Namibia:P Regards, Brendan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] OSM data
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: If there is a demand, maybe we can look into a local download server for data / tiles / etc. That's an interesting question... Can we take a short survey? Might help to determine local demand. I download updates daily, and the planet file every now and then. ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] API 0.6-ready import files
Thanks On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Adrian Frith adr...@frith.co.za wrote: Hi all, In preparation for the API 0.6 upgrade I've converted the various import files that we're using to the 0.6 format. They are available at http://adrian.frith.co.za/osm-import/ Cheers, Adrian -- Adrian Frith E-mail: adr...@frith.co.za Jabber: adr...@frith.co.za Website: http://adrian.frith.co.za/ ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] municipality contact tracking via wiki
Thanks Adrian... sending it now. FYI: I've started working on an app to convert the other OSM file you created so that it'll work with Merkaartor. I should be able to start importing areas that aren't already imported (south of Simons Town etc) - and help with the West Coast as well:P Regards, Brendan On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Adrian Frith adr...@frith.co.za wrote: Hi Brendan, If you send me the data I'll take a shot at converting it and setting up a slippymap of it like I did for Cape Town and Durban. I've been inactive lately due to work pressure, but I'm back now. Cheers, Adrian On Wed, 2009-04-08 at 17:41 +0200, brendan barrett wrote: I've been down with the flu and have slacked off my emails a bit. Thanks for putting up that page. I gave it a quick update with regards to the West Coast. I received the data yesterday (Saldanha Municipality - WC014) , and this time it has the street names. I believe I mentioned these files the other day on this mailing list. It's going to be a little while before I get to convert them to OSM format. The data is public domain, so if someone else wants a crack at converting them in the mean time, I am willing to send them the file. Otherwise, I'll be able to convert them in due course. The file is around a 1MB zipped. I'm going to contact other municipalities as well... and try get hold of as many street level maps as possible, starting in the Western Cape. Regards, Brendan On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Hi, Started a page to track the data release by the municipalities: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_South_Africa/municipalities If someone has a chance, could you please wiki-fy the rest of sections? Regards Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za -- Adrian Frith E-mail: adr...@frith.co.za Jabber: adr...@frith.co.za Website: http://adrian.frith.co.za/ ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
[OSM-Talk-ZA] West Coast Import
So I may or may not have the West Coast Spatial Development Department's spatial data for the West Coast (Saldanha municipality - including Paternoster, St Helena, Langebaan, Vredenberg etc). The files are public domain and there are no issues with us importing it. They cover everything from National routes (well, just the N7 really) and streets to jeep tracks and community centres etc). The only problem, is that much like the Cape Town import, the X and Y values are in a different format, and I don't have a tool to convert from Shape File to OSM that I understand. If there are any takers on helping convert or import, or even just for moral support:P ... then give me a shout. As with Cape Town, it might make sense that a small group do the import. Once it is in OSM format, I don't mind importing the data... the conversion is the tricky part for me. The first set of files I received today did not include street names in the dbf file... they are resending the files with the street names inside. Once I have those, I can mail them to those involved in the import. Regards, Brendan ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] National Routes - when are they freeways?
I don't have anywhere in mind. I just want to keep it in mind when doing long distance travelling. You raise a good point, and I retract that statement:P Taking a look again now, all the major highways i've driven on appear to be blue. Regards, Brendan On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Adrian Frith adr...@frith.co.za wrote: Where are you thinking of that should have more blue? Outside the cities, very little of the national road network (except for the N3) is divided highway as far as I can tell. Cheers, Adrian On Sat, 2009-03-21 at 21:44 +0200, brendan barrett wrote: Thanks, that all makes sense. In that case, there should probably be a lot more blue on the national routes. I suppose that the freeway sections can only really be marked from ground observation - hence all the green. Regards, Brendan On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Mark Williams wrote: As I undestand it, a freeway is a highway that has a centre island divide BUT does not have stop streets and robots at intersections, rather it has on-off ramps and bridges. There are also other restrictions. eg: 80cc motorbikes and slow vehicles as far as I know. Road Traffic Act 29 of 1989: freeway means a public road or a section of a road which has been designated as a freeway by an appropriate road traffic sign. This is symbol used I believe: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UK_motorway_symbol.svg National Roads (eg: N1, N2, etc) can have freeway sections. eg: N2 - Mossel Bay - George bypass , Port Elizabeth Bypass. Other category roads eg: M1 (Gauteng) can also be designated as freeways. There are a few Region roads (eg R21 - Gauteng) which have freeway sections. Regards Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] National Routes - when are they freeways?
Thanks, that all makes sense. In that case, there should probably be a lot more blue on the national routes. I suppose that the freeway sections can only really be marked from ground observation - hence all the green. Regards, Brendan On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Mark Williams wrote: As I undestand it, a freeway is a highway that has a centre island divide BUT does not have stop streets and robots at intersections, rather it has on-off ramps and bridges. There are also other restrictions. eg: 80cc motorbikes and slow vehicles as far as I know. Road Traffic Act 29 of 1989: freeway means a public road or a section of a road which has been designated as a freeway by an appropriate road traffic sign. This is symbol used I believe: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UK_motorway_symbol.svg National Roads (eg: N1, N2, etc) can have freeway sections. eg: N2 - Mossel Bay - George bypass , Port Elizabeth Bypass. Other category roads eg: M1 (Gauteng) can also be designated as freeways. There are a few Region roads (eg R21 - Gauteng) which have freeway sections. Regards Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
[OSM-Talk-ZA] National Routes - when are they freeways?
Please forgive the stupid question... but what is the criteria for determining where a national route is a freeway, and when it isn't? I see a lot of green national routes (highway=trunk) on the OSM site, and i'm wondering why I am not seeing a lot of blue instead (highway=motorway)? Regards, Brendan ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] National Routes - when are they freeways?
So we should have a lot more blue across the country then? Regards, Brendan On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Mark Williams mwilli...@telemedia.co.za wrote: As I undestand it, a freeway is a highway that has a centre island divide BUT does not have stop streets and robots at intersections, rather it has on-off ramps and bridges. This makes them qualify for a blue stripe! Regards, Mark - Original Message - From: brendan barrett shogun...@gmail.com To: talk-za talk-za@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: [OSM-Talk-ZA] National Routes - when are they freeways? Please forgive the stupid question... but what is the criteria for determining where a national route is a freeway, and when it isn't? I see a lot of green national routes (highway=trunk) on the OSM site, and i'm wondering why I am not seeing a lot of blue instead (highway=motorway)? Regards, Brendan ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] City of Cape Town Selling Out (was: Mapping Informal Areas, Khayelitsha, Cape Town)
Grant I don't have this on any authority, other than a brief 2 minute conversation with one of the guys in the department while I was there. There could be broken telephone, and I don't know to what extent this is the case. In any case, if it makes it easier / cheaper / better for them to purchase their information from a private company... then why not? I don't think they are doing that good a job in any case if they are handing out warnings about the accuracy of their data when they distribute (e.g. street names). I think we will have a more detailed / up to date set in any case. Regards, Brendan If you are looking for more info on this, I suggest contacting the department. On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: brendan barrett wrote: There's no need to chat to them about feeding data back as they are not going to maintain their data moving forward. They told me that they are going to switch to using data from the local mapping company (the same one Google Earth is getting its data from). Truly terrible! I can think of nothing worse. The South African Promotion of Access to Information Act (PAIA) of 2000 (http://www.acts.co.za/prom_of_access_to_info/) gives every citizen the right to information held by the State at the cost of distribution! (eg the price of a blank CD). Once the City of Cape Town licenses the data from Navteq / Teleatlas / BCX / Whoever this becomes NULL and void. Yes, GIS data is expensive to maintain, but it's absolutely vital for the functioning of a modern society and increasingly for online activities. Brendan: can you find out more information? Who, What, How... and details of how this will effect the Promotion of Access to Information Act 2000 from the City of Cape Town. / Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] City of Cape Town Selling Out (was: Mapping Informal Areas, Khayelitsha, Cape Town)
Yeah, but without any details, I don't want to ring any alarm bells or jump to any conclusions about anything. I perhaps spoke with a lack of concrete information. That said, it might be worth investigating. In the mean time however, judging by the success of the Cape Town and Durban imports, perhaps we can have a concerted effort to get all remaining government data that is in the public domain, and keep it on an FTP or something for import into OSM. Does it make sense breaking this up into areas and picking municipalities off one at a time? Also, does anyone here have any Directorate contacts? For the next few weeks at least I will perhaps not get too much done, but this is something i'd like to get involved in anyhow. West Coast is going to be my next target. Regards, Brendan On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Dave Coventry dgcoven...@gmail.com wrote: I dunno. It's probably a point of precedent. At the moment you can get 1 in 50 thou shapefiles of the whole of South Africa for a couple of hundred bucks. If this were to be privatised, I'm sure that the price would go up hundredfold, probably thousandfold. 2009/3/19 brendan barrett shogun...@gmail.com: Grant I don't have this on any authority, other than a brief 2 minute conversation with one of the guys in the department while I was there. There could be broken telephone, and I don't know to what extent this is the case. In any case, if it makes it easier / cheaper / better for them to purchase their information from a private company... then why not? I don't think they are doing that good a job in any case if they are handing out warnings about the accuracy of their data when they distribute (e.g. street names). I think we will have a more detailed / up to date set in any case. Regards, Brendan If you are looking for more info on this, I suggest contacting the department. On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: brendan barrett wrote: There's no need to chat to them about feeding data back as they are not going to maintain their data moving forward. They told me that they are going to switch to using data from the local mapping company (the same one Google Earth is getting its data from). Truly terrible! I can think of nothing worse. The South African Promotion of Access to Information Act (PAIA) of 2000 (http://www.acts.co.za/prom_of_access_to_info/) gives every citizen the right to information held by the State at the cost of distribution! (eg the price of a blank CD). Once the City of Cape Town licenses the data from Navteq / Teleatlas / BCX / Whoever this becomes NULL and void. Yes, GIS data is expensive to maintain, but it's absolutely vital for the functioning of a modern society and increasingly for online activities. Brendan: can you find out more information? Who, What, How... and details of how this will effect the Promotion of Access to Information Act 2000 from the City of Cape Town. / Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] City of Cape Town Selling Out
Yeah that makes sense. All the more reason for us to get what is in the public domain as soon as we can. I wonder if we can set up a list of municipalities contacted, and the results (you have a good start). Then we can get hold of the remaining ones. I'm going to see what I can do up the west coast (although I can't imagine it would take more than a few days to map the roads manually:P). I think there is a Directorate office here in Cape Town. I'll see what I can organise from there. Glad we got Cape Town and Durban in time. Regards, Brendan On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Brendan, I've half attempted contacting a few municipalities, without much success... Knysna, Stellenbosch, Hermanus seems to have outsourced their GIS departments to a private company... Emailed Joburg municipality and within minutes received an almost threatening email from a private company asking where we (OpenStreetMap) got our base mapping data from and letting me know that the company has private contracts with unspecified municipalities and we would not be able to get access to their data. Situation today, is you can get mapping data from many of the municipality, modify it, transform it, hack it up and release it very easily. Civil engineers, estate agents, cartographers / mapping companies, (open source) developers etc are doing this daily... Once the data is under license from a private company, the data likely becomes a walled garden. Pay or stay out and don't think of distributing unless you pay megabucks more and stick to the license agreement. Forget about innovating unless you have very deep pockets. / Grant brendan barrett wrote: Yeah, but without any details, I don't want to ring any alarm bells or jump to any conclusions about anything. I perhaps spoke with a lack of concrete information. That said, it might be worth investigating. In the mean time however, judging by the success of the Cape Town and Durban imports, perhaps we can have a concerted effort to get all remaining government data that is in the public domain, and keep it on an FTP or something for import into OSM. Does it make sense breaking this up into areas and picking municipalities off one at a time? Also, does anyone here have any Directorate contacts? For the next few weeks at least I will perhaps not get too much done, but this is something i'd like to get involved in anyhow. West Coast is going to be my next target. Regards, Brendan ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Mapping Informal Areas, Khayelitsha, Cape Town
Hey all I'm forwarding this mail to the list in case it never came through. Joy said that she didn't have permission to send to the list, so I am forwarding it anyhow. Regards, Brendan _ Hi Brendan, IkamvaYouth (http://www.ikamvayouth.org/) is particularly interested in mapping the youth-relevant aspects of Khayelitsha (other youth orgs, schools, parks, sports fields and clubs, community centres, clinics, libraries, internet cafes etc.) We have digital cameras and it would be great to have the learners upload their pics of these places onto openstreetmaps. Unfortunately, we don't have anyone in-house with GPS or mapping know-how, and so we're looking for someone to come spend some time with our volunteers and learners and manage and coordinate this project, or train an ikamvanite to do so. We're pretty flexible with time, and it will depend on whether or not someone from openstreetmap.za can run with this project or if we will do it ourselves. We're an after-school programme that operates in the afternoons and on Saturdays. We also run a holiday programme throughout the June/July holidays, which may also be a good time to do the project. If there's anyone out there to whom this sounds interesting, who'd like to work with some amazing (bright and super enthusiastic) learners in Khayelitsha (aged 16 - 22), please contact me! Thanks, Joy 2009/3/17 brendan barrett shogun...@gmail.com There's no need to chat to them about feeding data back as they are not going to maintain their data moving forward. They told me that they are going to switch to using data from the local mapping company (the same one Google Earth is getting its data from). As far as time lines go, I really do not know. Adrian has imported a significant amount in the southern part of Cape Town already. I am snowballed under some heavy deadlines at work, and am no closer to getting going than I was a month ago:/ Is there date by which this information would be required? If there is an urgent need, I can squeeze in some time somewhere and try make a plan to help this along quicker. I was thinking about this again last night, and once the road import is done, there is so much more content that can be put into the maps in these areas (open fields, footpaths, amenities, community centres, clinics etc). We are still in the early stages of mapping South Africa. Regards, Brendan On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Brendan Excellent. Hadn't realized the authorities were keeping track of the informal areas. Has anyone talked with the city about feedback, clarifying those discrepencies, from OSM surveying to the govt? There's definitely a lot of mapping to do anyway, and this is a great start. When is the import planned to be completed? -Mikel From: brendan barrett shogun...@gmail.com To: mikel_ma...@yahoo.com; talk-za@openstreetmap.org; nro...@gmail.com; j...@ikamvayouth.org Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:27:31 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Mapping Informal Areas, Khayelitsha, Cape Town Hi Mikel For an idea of what data should be included in OSM after the Cape Town import has been completed, please check out this link: http://htonl.dev.openstreetmap.org/cape-town/. This is the Shape file data (converted to OSM) that we secured from Cape Town Government, and are importing (mostly Adrian's importing at this point - he's completed a lot of the southern peninsula already). You will notice that Khayelitsha should be pretty well covered on completion. I am sure that there will be much to map even after the import, as mapping doesn't stop at streets:P (Parks? Footpaths? Dams and Rivers?) It might not make sense mapping residential roads in the area until the import is complete. One valuable contribution that springs to mind, is verifying street names. When I spoke to Cape Town government to get the data, they said that there were some discrepancies between the names of streets on the ground, and those in title deeds. While not common, it may happen that the visible street name does not match the name in OSM. Also, like Nic pointed out, Google recently started showing data from one of the local commercial mapping companies. It's quite possible that they haven't spotted this yet. Regards, Brendan 2009/3/16 Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com: 2009/3/16 Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com South African, Cape Town Mappers... Last month at InfoActivism (http://infoactivism.org/) I met Joy Olivier with ikamvayouth.org, an NGO working for youth empowerment in South Africa. After hearing about OSM, Joy became interested in introducing OSM to young people living in informal areas, like Khayelitsha, and mapping these off-the-map places for OSM. Noboby has maps of these places, but OpenStreetMap should! Not quite true : http
Re: [OSM-talk] amenity=doctor or amenity=doctors ? [tagging]
I have to say i'm siding with those in favour of validation as well. Not for everything, but at the very least some kind of spell checking utility when uploading from the editors. I've seen a number of spelling mistakes when residential was clearly the intended tag value. I have nearly uploaded incorrectly spelled residential tags as well from Merkaartor (even though the correct spelling auto-completes... if you just type in the box, sometimes you mess it up - my own stupid user error). In fact I corrected a number of clearly inaccurately spelled tags the other day (after finding them in my local DB). Would a spell check type utility that could point out possible errors perhaps make sense? I'm thinking of a Did you mean kind of dialog used to validate the data before upload (like MS Word / Open Office). The user can thus ignore the validation (add it to their dictionary even) if they feel strongly about their implementation, but it might catch some blatant errors. We could also include OGC validation later on (like a grammar check - to take the analogy further:P) if the users wanted to (I know the MS Sql Server users of OSM would love this... even though we're in the minority:P) Regards, Brendan On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Guenther Meyer d@sordidmusic.com wrote: Am Dienstag 24 Februar 2009 schrieb Dave Stubbs: 1. ... every application trying to use the data has to deal with several taggings for the same thing. that's an unnecessary waste of resources. a script running on the database can minimize this waste, and furthermore, can fix typos in tags, which are also found all over the database. 1) Typos are a different beast entirely. If you've applied proper context then some sort of fix bot might work. And some kind of validation tool would be even better. yes, this is something different, but technically very similar. you mean validation in the editors? ok, but not during editing but before the upload/commit. 2) OMG two tags!!1! Trust me when I say this is a trivial thing to include when you consider some of the other random tagging variations that people keep voting in. it may be trivial, but when you have to do this for every possible tag with some variations, it's a waste of time, that should not be necessary. parsing the osm xml files is already a ressource consuming task; every unnecessary work should be omitted. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-Talk-ZA] Cape Town Data
Hi everyone I have received the street level maps for the Cape Town Metro from the City. They have been quite helpful about it and don't mind us putting the data into the Open Street Map project. I have already given this data to a few people who requested it. If there is anyone else that would like a copy, please post to this mailing list and one of us will send you a copy, as well as the instructions on which user account to upload it with and the attribution required etc. Have a good day:P Regards Brendan ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Cape Town Data
Got an FTP site I can put it up on? On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Jan de Jager jan...@mail2web.com wrote: Could you add the data to an ftp site for us? Regards Jan de Jager On 16 Jan 2009, at 11:01 AM, brendan barrett shogun...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone I have received the street level maps for the Cape Town Metro from the City. They have been quite helpful about it and don't mind us putting the data into the Open Street Map project. I have already given this data to a few people who requested it. If there is anyone else that would like a copy, please post to this mailing list and one of us will send you a copy, as well as the instructions on which user account to upload it with and the attribution required etc. Have a good day:P Regards Brendan ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Cape Town Data
Take a look here... Grant has already started the Wiki Page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_South_Africa/Cape_Town_Import Regards Brendan On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Adrian Frith adr...@frith.co.za wrote: I'm going to try, as a first step, to convert the whole shapefile to OSM, render it with mapnik and set up a custom openlayers on my webserver, so we can all see what the data looks like. I'm hopeful that I may be able to get it done this weekend. I've taken a quick look at the data, and it has: - SegName and Suffix, which gives the name of the street - Seg_Type, which seems to be about access, and can be Public, Private or Complex - Route_No, which is the road number we see on the map (R300, M5, etc.) - Class, which is their classification of the road; we'll need to work out an appropriate mapping to OSM highway values - Road_No, which is some kind of internal road numbering - Drive, which also seems to be some kind of classification, but is mostly empty - Speed, which is the limit in km/hr - a bunch of other fields which aren't really relevant for us I'm still at work now, but once I get home I'll start looking at the values - particularly the Class values - and write up a Wiki page about the data. Cheers, Adrian brendan barrett wrote: Hey Grant, I spoke to Dr. Solomon T Bhunu (Manager: Corporate Geo-Information Systems) this morning again, and Mark Van de Marwe (head of Corporate GIS for Cape Town) over the phone. I have explained that the data will be available to anyone that wants it via the project, corporate and personal alike. They both said that the disclaimer if for their protection. It looks like their concern is that property developers and the like do not take them to task for inaccurate data. I asked for the letter confirming our distribution of the data via Open Street Map and Mark said that he's given us the data, and that we can use it... they don't seem bothered about the letter. As far as uploading into OSM is concerned. If someone would like to take that role, i'd be relieved. I haven't managed an import yet (still new to OSM). perhaps you would like to coordinate the upload? I'd appreciate the direction. Regards, Brendan On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Brendan Barrett wrote: Hi Ryan, Grant I have set up a user account in OSM for the import Cape Town Import. There is also it's own email account at gmail. Please use this username when importing this Cape Town Data. If there is a problem down the road, it will allow us to identify data from the import. The user name and password are: User Name: capetownimp...@gmail.com Password: 6S7tn9n9 Adrian Frith suggested we use source=City of Cape Town to attribute the data, i'd like to stick with that if possible. The data is available to import into OSM, but I wouldn't use it for any other use as I haven't asked for permission for anything other than OSM import. I'm not sure what copyright issues we'll get into if we do. We can of course use the OSM stuff after the import. IANAL etc. Brendan, I HIGHLY recommend that only one person is responsible for the uploading to OSM. Lets not rush uploading anything. I am a little worried about the copyright and disclaimer form.doc file. Do they realise once the data is uploaded to OSM, the data is available under the OpenStreetMap license to anyone? The OSM license specially allows commercial usage and redistribution. regards Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and Linked Data, and W3C, etc ...
Yeah, because none of us have any idea what we're doing, we're just a bunch of clueless fuckwits that are intent on buggering up everything. I think this was a little harsh. When i'm working on a project, I welcome any input I can get. It doesn't mean I stop doing what i'm doing. It never hurts getting others to review things. You don't need to stop development on API 0.6 to do a review. If someone would like to review it (as a parallel process) and post some additional thoughts on the design... then why not? It doesn't have to stop any current work. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 8:38 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Ian Dees wrote: I think it would be very handy to have a couple database experts that are not attached to OSM and its current setup look at the plans for API 0.6 as a code and design review. I haven't seen much about 0.6 (and I'm not trying to bash the progress that has been made), but I imagine that getting a few fresh eyeballs on its design would be extremely helpful for OSM in the long run. Yeah, because none of us have any idea what we're doing, we're just a bunch of clueless fuckwits that are intent on buggering up everything. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and Linked Data, and W3C, etc ...
I'm not going to speculate on the fruits of such an exercise. My point is simply that if someone is willing to do so, then why stop them or belittle their effort. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: brendan barrett wrote: Yeah, because none of us have any idea what we're doing, we're just a bunch of clueless fuckwits that are intent on buggering up everything. I think this was a little harsh. When i'm working on a project, I welcome any input I can get. It doesn't mean I stop doing what i'm doing. It never hurts getting others to review things. You don't need to stop development on API 0.6 to do a review. If someone would like to review it (as a parallel process) and post some additional thoughts on the design... then why not? It doesn't have to stop any current work. If there is somebody out there who can offer constructive and practical suggestions on how to improve things then fine. I very much doubt that we will get that though. What we will get is, after we've spent a lot of time and effort bringing somebody up to speed on how things work, is a lot of pie in the sky hand waving ideas of the sort that lots of people have provided in the past. It's not like there is any great mystery about what is needed, or that there is some magic bullet such that somebody can say change this parameter to Y and it will go ten times faster. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM and Linked Data, and W3C, etc ...
Perhaps my point hasn't gotten through properly. My intention is merely to convey that this kind of language we're just a bunch of clueless fuckwits that are intent on buggering up everything, does not help someone understand this API 0.6 has been available for testing and reviewing for a while now. If there is somebody willing and able to review it they will have done so by now. As a newbie to the project, this kind of language deters any kind of participation in this forum due to fear of retribution. How do you build credibility for a project when your public communications are degrading? Rather not reply at all. On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 12:32 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, brendan barrett wrote: I'm not going to speculate on the fruits of such an exercise. My point is simply that if someone is willing to do so, then why stop them or belittle their effort. True, and API 0.6 has been available for testing and reviewing for a while now. If there is somebody willing and able to review it they will have done so by now, and we won't stop them or belittle their effort! This is different from asking around whether somebody perhaps knows somebody who might be a database genius and who might perhaps be willing to lend us his ears so that we can explain to him what OSM is about, what we've done in the past, what we'll do with 0.6, and why and where we'd value his opinion. We might go to such lengths if we were in really deep shit and didn't know how to get out without external help, but I don't see a reason for that right now. I'm also a bit offended by the fact that people seem to think that anyone who has written a few RfCs must surely know people who can easily usher OSM into a new era by applying their vastly superior knowledge - and that's in spite of me not even having designed anything close to the heart of OSM. Finally, I think that Tim has a right to be a regular mapper like anyone else on this list, picking his area of interest and doing a little work there, without everyone challenging him to get involved more and to send his friends and organisations to help. Has it occurred to anybody that he might just be in it for a bit of recreation like so many of us? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] ZA Local OSM Chapter?
I'm all in! It would be nice to approach government on behalf of OSM as a voluntary association or the like. This will help especially with all the rest of the government data that we'd like to access. On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Adrian Frith wrote: Grant, would you have any objection to transferring the openstreetmap.org.za domain to such a local chapter if it is created? Gladly transfer it. The site is really in need of an update, I'm spread a bit thinly. / Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] IRC Channel
Thanx On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: brendan barrett wrote: Does anybody know why the ZA IRC channel isn't working? Or is it just me? furion.org went away... ZA channel now on Atrum: irc://irc.Atrum.org/osm-za Web based chat here: http://www.atrum.org/chat/ / Grant ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
[OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
I've only just joined the OSM Talk Mailing list and wanted to respond to this message... so i've pasted some of it below the jump. 80n... if you're bored in the evenings, how about thinking far away from home? South Africa has good aerial photography for the major cities (Yahoo Imagery)... wanna give us a hand down here? : P 80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) To clarify, my immediate area is complete in every direction as far as I can go before meeting another area that is already mapped. And by complete I mean all everything down to post boxes but not as far as house numbers. As far as Surrey is concerned all towns and large villages are fairly well mapped. I don't think we can declare it finished yet but it's not far off. I don't know how other counties are doing. Are any others near to completion? 80n ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
Yeah, but there's still so much to map it'll keep people busy for months! Either way... I agree with your comment... let's think further afield when we're done with our own turf:P On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 7:29 PM, Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio jldoming...@prodevelop.es wrote: Yes, there are lots of people in the first world mapping even the most irrelevant buildings in their villages, while in the third world there are large cities with good Yahoo imagery and nobody mapping them. Sad, isn't it? South Africa does not seem to need much help, by the way. Lucas De: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org en nombre de brendan barrett Enviado el: mar 30/12/2008 18:03 Para: talk@openstreetmap.org Asunto: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone? I've only just joined the OSM Talk Mailing list and wanted to respond to this message... so i've pasted some of it below the jump. 80n... if you're bored in the evenings, how about thinking far away from home? South Africa has good aerial photography for the major cities (Yahoo Imagery)... wanna give us a hand down here? : P 80n wrote: In my case I've run out of stuff to map. Can someone build some more roads please? ;) To clarify, my immediate area is complete in every direction as far as I can go before meeting another area that is already mapped. And by complete I mean all everything down to post boxes but not as far as house numbers. As far as Surrey is concerned all towns and large villages are fairly well mapped. I don't think we can declare it finished yet but it's not far off. I don't know how other counties are doing. Are any others near to completion? 80n ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Where have all the contributors gone?
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Tanveer Singh tanveer1...@gmail.com wrote: what is sad about it? In India only the very big cities have yahoo imagery - and work is going on fairly well there. The rest of the country is a big blank, and GPS instruments are not all that affordable. As the price falls, things will improve. and work is going on fairly well there I wonder who decides what the correct pace is? If it were up to me i'd like the whole world mapped at street level yesterday. I'd prefer to accelerate the process as much as possible so that we can start mapping other things... or better yet, help out in other useful related projects. I'm never one to be satisfied with the way things are, and hence hold back. The sooner everything that's in Yahoo imagery is mapped, the sooner we can put that behind us and move to the next step (focusing on rural data perhaps? - not that is has to be done separately:P). Just a thought. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] [OSM-legal-talk] Council Permission Request Accepted - Followup Questions?
Thanks! On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Adrian Frith adr...@frith.co.za wrote: Wonderful news! I'm more than willing to help with the import of the Cape Town data - I'm one of the contributors to OSM's Cape Town coverage, and I have a fair bit of experience with GIS and related stuff. I don't think the aerial photos will be a big loss, since we have the Yahoo! satellite imagery covering Cape Town. Cheers, Adrian On Tue, 2008-12-30 at 08:59 +0200, brendan barrett wrote: Just to let you guys know, we've got permission to use the street level data from the government for the Cape Town Metro. I will be contacting one of the guys involved on the 12th (when everyone's back from leave) to get the data (and a letter giving us permission). Do I have any volunteers to help import the data when I get it? They probably won't give us their aerial photography just yet as they fly quite often and they need to make money off it to justify further funding (recovering costs or something). Either way, not a bad situation. Let's see who else we can get on board. Here's an excerpt that I sent in response to the phone call I had this morning. Good morning Thank you for the telephone conversation we had earlier. It was very informative. I just wanted to send this email to cover the points that we talked about for reference. If I have missed any points, please feel free to correct the list below. 1.The nature of Open Street Map is that the information contributed to the project is free and open to all that would like to use it, as long as they share any derived works back with the project. 2.Under the Conditions of Promotion To Information Act (PAIA), you are willing to allow us to use the street level data for the Cape Town area. 3.We may not as of yet be able to access the Aerial photography you capture, as it is an expensive item. 4.I will be contacting when he gets back from leave to access the information and get more details on the licensing and the use of the data. 5.A cleaning exercise on your data is underway, but any contribution that your team could make will be greatly appreciated. The Open Street Map users will most likely end up cleaning the data as they put it in, or after it has been imported. With regards to street names, they focus on the street information that is available to a user on the ground (i.e. what is visible when you are driving around). Thanks again for your time and the information that you provided. We really appreciate it. Thoughts? On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Great stuff... please push, if you don't receive a response. I've tried before but never heard anything back. My wording to Durban: --- GIS Department, I'm a coordinator of the OpenStreetMap project in South Africa. We are a volunteer project to build a digital map, which is freely available. We are similar in nature to Wikipedia. We are missing many feature names (eg road / street names) within the Ethekwini Municipality, with your permission may we get the missing names off the Online City Maps? Alternatively do you have any other data sources we may freely use? May we freely use the ESRI Shapefiles on the FTP? We survey the features using consumer GPS equipment or alternatively we derive the features using aerial imagery which we have permission to use. View of our Durban work so far: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-29.8422lon=30.9316zoom=12 I'll gladly answer any questions you might have. Regards Grant Slater OpenStreetMap South Africa. --- Regards Grant brendan barrett wrote: FYI... I emailed someone from the Cape Town Council yesterday (Piet Van Zyl). He seems to be the one involved in the Cape Town GIS stuff. I'll let you know his response when I get it. On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Legal, On behalf of OpenStreetMap I asked a large city council (Durban, South Africa) for permission use their online mapping website to find the official names for roads and features we are missing. I also asked for permission (expecting to be denied) to use the shapefiles on their public FTP site. http://citymaps.durban.gov.za/ Their reply from the head of their corporate GIS department: You may use any of our data for your project. Note that the online map is very up-to-date (seldom more than 1 to 2 weeks old), whereas the FTP site is only updated infrequently. AFAIK, they own all their own GIS data, unlike councils in the UK. Advice... Should I; thank them and go ahead and plan a full import of their data? (yay) Or Should I follow-up with a few question before proceeding? Licence, attribution, do-you-really-mean-what-you-just-said... etc etc
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] [OSM-legal-talk] Council Permission Request Accepted - Followup Questions?
Just to let you guys know, we've got permission to use the street level data from the government for the Cape Town Metro. I will be contacting one of the guys involved on the 12th (when everyone's back from leave) to get the data (and a letter giving us permission). Do I have any volunteers to help import the data when I get it? They probably won't give us their aerial photography just yet as they fly quite often and they need to make money off it to justify further funding (recovering costs or something). Either way, not a bad situation. Let's see who else we can get on board. Here's an excerpt that I sent in response to the phone call I had this morning. Good morning Thank you for the telephone conversation we had earlier. It was very informative. I just wanted to send this email to cover the points that we talked about for reference. If I have missed any points, please feel free to correct the list below. 1. The nature of Open Street Map is that the information contributed to the project is free and open to all that would like to use it, as long as they share any derived works back with the project. 2. Under the Conditions of Promotion To Information Act (PAIA), you are willing to allow us to use the street level data for the Cape Town area. 3. We may not as of yet be able to access the Aerial photography you capture, as it is an expensive item. 4. I will be contacting when he gets back from leave to access the information and get more details on the licensing and the use of the data. 5. A cleaning exercise on your data is underway, but any contribution that your team could make will be greatly appreciated. The Open Street Map users will most likely end up cleaning the data as they put it in, or after it has been imported. With regards to street names, they focus on the street information that is available to a user on the ground (i.e. what is visible when you are driving around). Thanks again for your time and the information that you provided. We really appreciate it. Thoughts? On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Great stuff... please push, if you don't receive a response. I've tried before but never heard anything back. My wording to Durban: --- GIS Department, I'm a coordinator of the OpenStreetMap project in South Africa. We are a volunteer project to build a digital map, which is freely available. We are similar in nature to Wikipedia. We are missing many feature names (eg road / street names) within the Ethekwini Municipality, with your permission may we get the missing names off the Online City Maps? Alternatively do you have any other data sources we may freely use? May we freely use the ESRI Shapefiles on the FTP? We survey the features using consumer GPS equipment or alternatively we derive the features using aerial imagery which we have permission to use. View of our Durban work so far: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-29.8422lon=30.9316zoom=12 I'll gladly answer any questions you might have. Regards Grant Slater OpenStreetMap South Africa. --- Regards Grant brendan barrett wrote: FYI... I emailed someone from the Cape Town Council yesterday (Piet Van Zyl). He seems to be the one involved in the Cape Town GIS stuff. I'll let you know his response when I get it. On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Legal, On behalf of OpenStreetMap I asked a large city council (Durban, South Africa) for permission use their online mapping website to find the official names for roads and features we are missing. I also asked for permission (expecting to be denied) to use the shapefiles on their public FTP site. http://citymaps.durban.gov.za/ Their reply from the head of their corporate GIS department: You may use any of our data for your project. Note that the online map is very up-to-date (seldom more than 1 to 2 weeks old), whereas the FTP site is only updated infrequently. AFAIK, they own all their own GIS data, unlike councils in the UK. Advice... Should I; thank them and go ahead and plan a full import of their data? (yay) Or Should I follow-up with a few question before proceeding? Licence, attribution, do-you-really-mean-what-you-just-said... etc etc. What questions? / Grant ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Council Permission Request Accepted - Followup Questions?
I would ask what their license is on this data (if there is one), or if it is in the public domain. Perhaps explain that the project would allow others to use the data as well. This sounds like a great idea. I might try this in Cape Town. Let me know how this turns out. On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Legal, On behalf of OpenStreetMap I asked a large city council (Durban, South Africa) for permission use their online mapping website to find the official names for roads and features we are missing. I also asked for permission (expecting to be denied) to use the shapefiles on their public FTP site. http://citymaps.durban.gov.za/ Their reply from the head of their corporate GIS department: You may use any of our data for your project. Note that the online map is very up-to-date (seldom more than 1 to 2 weeks old), whereas the FTP site is only updated infrequently. AFAIK, they own all their own GIS data, unlike councils in the UK. Advice... Should I; thank them and go ahead and plan a full import of their data? (yay) Or Should I follow-up with a few question before proceeding? Licence, attribution, do-you-really-mean-what-you-just-said... etc etc. What questions? / Grant ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Council Permission Request Accepted - Followup Questions?
I found their agreement here: http://citymaps.durban.gov.za/license_agreement.htm Perhaps that helps others here with their advice. On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Legal, On behalf of OpenStreetMap I asked a large city council (Durban, South Africa) for permission use their online mapping website to find the official names for roads and features we are missing. I also asked for permission (expecting to be denied) to use the shapefiles on their public FTP site. http://citymaps.durban.gov.za/ Their reply from the head of their corporate GIS department: You may use any of our data for your project. Note that the online map is very up-to-date (seldom more than 1 to 2 weeks old), whereas the FTP site is only updated infrequently. AFAIK, they own all their own GIS data, unlike councils in the UK. Advice... Should I; thank them and go ahead and plan a full import of their data? (yay) Or Should I follow-up with a few question before proceeding? Licence, attribution, do-you-really-mean-what-you-just-said... etc etc. What questions? / Grant ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Council Permission Request Accepted - Followup Questions?
Sorry for the multiple posts: This clause in the license is interesting: 2.6 Copyright The Municipality grants a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to the Licensee to use the Data located at the Licensee's address stated above. The Municipality retains the copyright of all data, as well as the right to recall this data in the event of any contravention of the conditions of use, or after completion of use of the data for the purposes for which it was requested. This license does not grant the Licensee any right to transfer the Data to other parties. If you transfer possession of any copy, modification, or portion of the Data to another party, you will be in breach and your license is automatically terminated. hmmm... I would explain the nature of the project (in writing / email) and get a response (in writing / email) before using the data. On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 6:02 PM, brendan barrett shogun...@gmail.com wrote: I found their agreement here: http://citymaps.durban.gov.za/license_agreement.htm Perhaps that helps others here with their advice. On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Legal, On behalf of OpenStreetMap I asked a large city council (Durban, South Africa) for permission use their online mapping website to find the official names for roads and features we are missing. I also asked for permission (expecting to be denied) to use the shapefiles on their public FTP site. http://citymaps.durban.gov.za/ Their reply from the head of their corporate GIS department: You may use any of our data for your project. Note that the online map is very up-to-date (seldom more than 1 to 2 weeks old), whereas the FTP site is only updated infrequently. AFAIK, they own all their own GIS data, unlike councils in the UK. Advice... Should I; thank them and go ahead and plan a full import of their data? (yay) Or Should I follow-up with a few question before proceeding? Licence, attribution, do-you-really-mean-what-you-just-said... etc etc. What questions? / Grant ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] Custom Data Formats? Data Filtering?
Hey I've had an entertaining morning going through pretty much all of the posts to this forum, and many of my initial questions are answered already (OSM newbie here). I do have a question or two which i am hoping someone here can help me answer. I'm busy building an application that is looking to leverage OSM data (commercial application, distributed with some hardware, not open source). In order to distribute that application in an offline environment, and not sit with 100Gigs worth of files, I understandably have to filter out everything the end user won't need, and try store the data in a format that is highly optimized. Background facts: I am not going to change any underlying OSM data... everything will come from the planet file and the subsequent diff files. I would just filter out things that are not absolutely required (so basically keep street level data). I am looking to store the data in a custom (potentially binary based) format to try save space, so I will change the way it is stored... the OSM XML is really bloated for what we need. Here are the questions: 1. Would I be allowed to leave out the user and timestamp tags in the version that I create? Could I leave out any unnecessary tags (there are a few)? These tags just create extra data storage requirements and really don't help the situation (I want to filter down to the size of a single DVD if possible). The way we want to store the data, it's not likely that users would be able to access it in any case. 2. Do I need to make this data available in any other way other than on the DVD that we distribute with the software? There's no added benefit that I see for others, as it's just a cut down version of the OSM database (other people loose out on data). There is a concern that we would have to incur a substantial cost if we were to make this freely available over the internet as we are operating in a costly bandwidth environment. This may not be possible. We may also change the format with software updates, and don't really want to have to publish our format, get other people hooked on it.. then get restricted in our efforts to change it at whim. We would obviously attribute the map data source to Open Street Map... or the users... or whatever make sense (suggestions?). Thanks for any replies. Brendan ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Custom Data Formats? Data Filtering?
Thanks for the super quick reply. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Rob Myers wrote: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. Understood. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 12:48 PM, brendan barrett wrote: 1. Would I be allowed to leave out the user and timestamp tags in the version that I create? Could I leave out any unnecessary tags (there are a few)? Yes, you can. The rendered maps do this for example. Great. That makes life easy. 2. Do I need to make this data available in any other way other than on the DVD that we distribute with the software? No, you don't need to. But bear in mind that under BY-SA the users of your version of the data will be free to copy it for use outside of the application or to give a copy of it to their friends for free. Not an issue... they might as well take it from the openstreetmap.org site (easier to read)... same difference. We would obviously attribute the map data source to Open Street Map... or the users... or whatever make sense (suggestions?). Copyright OpenStreetMap and contributors. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution Thanks The CC website explains various ways of attributing work here: http://creativecommons.org/license/results-one?q_1=2q_1=1field_commercial=yesfield_derivatives=sa OSM is under BY-SA 2.0 rather than 3.0, but it's easy enough to change any text or URLs from the above page to reflect this. Thanks again. - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Custom Data Formats? Data Filtering?
Yeah... but the maps won't go on the devices. they will go into the software that runs on the desktop / laptop (Windows at first... then later Linux Mac etc). Thanks for the explanation. If they really want it we'd probably release an API (and source for the API) in any case down the line, if a reason that I can't see right now develops. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, If people want to reverse engineer it... that's fine:P I'm not sure it's worth the effort as the files won't have anything extra in them. People have reverse engineered Garmin maps not to get at the data, but to be able to use the devices with their own data. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Custom Data Formats? Data Filtering?
Come to think of it... that's not a bad idea. Perhaps we'll look at allowing people to import their own maps into our software down the line (provided they convert to our format... hence and API:P). We might do that if it takes off. Thanks. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 6:04 PM, brendan barrett wrote: Yeah... but the maps won't go on the devices. they will go into the software that runs on the desktop / laptop (Windows at first... then later Linux Mac etc). Thanks for the explanation. If they really want it we'd probably release an API (and source for the API) in any case down the line, if a reason that I can't see right now develops. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, If people want to reverse engineer it... that's fine:P I'm not sure it's worth the effort as the files won't have anything extra in them. People have reverse engineered Garmin maps not to get at the data, but to be able to use the devices with their own data. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Custom Data Formats? Data Filtering?
If people want to reverse engineer it... that's fine:P I'm not sure it's worth the effort as the files won't have anything extra in them. They're just wasting time and effort that they could be putting towards making OSM better. There won't be anything in the files that isn't from the planet and diff files:P On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: El Lunes, 8 de Diciembre de 2008, Rob Myers escribió: [...] 2. Do I need to make this data available in any other way other than on the DVD that we distribute with the software? No, you don't need to. But bear in mind that under BY-SA the users of your version of the data will be free to copy it for use outside of the application or to give a copy of it to their friends for free. Well, I tend to think about things from the perspective of the upcoming ODbL license (see http://foundation.openstreetmap.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/open_database_licence_2008-04-10_draft.pdf ). My understanding of article 4.6 means that it's OK to *either*: - Put all the stuff in the DVD. - Say how to make a file compatible with your system based on OSM data (i.e. provide instructions and scripts in the DVD or your company's webpage). With the first option, people will ventually reverse-engineer the format and upload custom versions somewhere. With the second option, people will eventually upload custom versions somewhere, quicker. I guess it'll be fine either way. (IANAL, TINLA, etc) Cheers, -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega piercings A programmer started to cuss piercings Because getting to sleep was a fuss piercings As he lay there in bed piercings Looping 'round in his head piercings was: while(!asleep()) sheep++; ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
