[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
Any news on the Canadian Payroll Module, I'm considering proposing ERP at my office (in Quebec, Canada) and having payroll is one of the key elements we are looking for. Thanks ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
Re: [Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
On Saturday 08 September 2007 08:42:10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any news on the Canadian Payroll Module, I'm considering proposing ERP at my office (in Quebec, Canada) and having payroll is one of the key elements we are looking for. Thanks ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users Hi there, I have an Indian Payroll Module which is built but unpublished. It may be slightly different from your canadian needs, though modifiable I'm sure. Michael Gardner Karmine Consulting ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
Well one of my friend has also started to use TERP but as I can see now he is also all at sea regarding the development of some basic structures. So it looks to me this thing can be rather difficult to handle, so if you people advise can I ask my friend to switch to some other alternative? If so will it be wise to suggest some recommendations here? Arizona Payroll Company (http://www.nationalpeo.com/payrollcompany.htm) ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
jack02 wrote: So it looks to me this thing can be rather difficult to handle That's true enough - it's the nature of the domain, isn't it ... business objects and processes across your whole business or, in this case, the specific impact of disparate government regulations on payroll delivery? jack02 wrote: can I ask my friend to switch to some other alternative? If so will it be wise to suggest some recommendations here? I've had experience with a number of these systems - Open Source, internal and commercial - and found TinyERP to be the most pliable and productive (for us, at least, but possibly also for other solution providers). It would be interesting to contrast a solution in Tiny with a solution in, say, OFBiz (unless somebody had already written a module in one or the other, getting everybody off the hook). If you're having trouble with TinyERP I would very much like to hear if you find something that can be made to match your needs more closely. I really think that this is mostly a problem with the problem space not this particular technology for delivering a solution. Geoff Seath Solutions Ltd (http://www.seathsolutions.com) ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
I wasn't belittling his efforts. Just in awe; I swore off long bash scripts a long time ago as I find them to be a lot of work, that's all. I imagine the world record is substantially larger though. It will be nice if someone can abstract the commonalities between payroll taxing schemes to some generic dr/cr collection. I just think it will be a long road. For example, your generic list contained a term I'm not even familiar with. Ditto for much in Eliseo's code for the Philippines. All the time tracking stuff for hours should be generic as should the payment types (wage, hourly, commision etc.). Holiday bookings are already covered. Statutory, paid holidays should be generic too. Unfortunately, politicians both invent new taxes and borrow implentations from other countries (think all the weird VAT/GST implementations). Canada (and what I've read of the USA and the Philippines) has lots of variation -- everything from straight percentage calcs to long, weird things with many conditions and dependancies. Each is normally self contained though. Maybe even the check digit routines for S.S. numbers would be common - at least they would be known and pluggable. The specific forms and xml used for electronic batch filing will, of course, be different from place to place. I did this once before about 15 years ago, so I'm trying to include all the things people eventually had me add to their customized accounting re payroll to make things easy and efficient for them. Things like batch entry of time-sheets (time clock approach won't work for most of my client's employees like roofers, general contractors etc.) and creating the Canadian specific forms they hate filling out from that info to create ROEs for unemployment insurance. Things like that. I'm rambling, but that's only because I'm really very excited by the whole thing. Terp uses my fav. language, database, db connector, cms and accords will all the things I wish I'd done differently the first time. Plus a lot of amazing coding; when I first saw the 20 minute module video I nearly fell over. My first module took me 4-5 times that long, but my second one didn't! :) Wonderful stuff. There's a lot to learn though and I don't have Francais, so some docs take me a long time to parse (poorly). I've yet to look into how scheduling works or even do my first callback. On the other hand, I have some very simple questions like why no first/last name separation? (my income tax summaries need it) to how is 'x' function accomplished. As you can guess from the preceeding paragraph, my current level of familiarity with terp does not extend to introducing a generic dr/cr layer for payroll which I made the subject of a different thread a few days ago; maybe something which just stored e.g.: - name - data type - range, type and format checking - income or deduction type - name of function to call and/or - manual entry field - account distribution Naturally, this would also aid in maintenance for a single jurisdiction as well as help in adding new ones. Politicians dream up new taxes and change/drop old ones all the time. This would not be at the user level as that would be a support nightmare. Perhaps the above is not the best idea, but I'm open to writing either it or some better variation. If given some hints I'll do the work until it's acceptable to the lead devs. Payroll is far more of a priority for me than it is for the project as a whole. For those contemplating joining in, I can tell you that payroll (being just simple arithmetic + arbitrary rules) is a bit of a drag to write, because of all the verbiage governments use, but easy to maintain afterwards. I can't work on this some more tomorrow, but I'll be back on it Thursday my time unless I get another call. ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
Re: [Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
Hello, There's a lot to learn though and I don't have Francais, so some docs take me a long time to parse (poorly). We just hired a translator that will start within 2 weeks. So, we will improve these 'french' documentations soon. On the other hand, I have some very simple questions like why no first/last name separation? (my income tax summaries need it) Lots of answers to this question: * EDI norm asks it in this way (when you get messages, we tested on SAP) * More easier when importing data from programs that does'nt separate first/last name * Sometimes it's a non sense to separate first/last name on a partner: (for eg, if you want to put the name of a company, a surname of someone, ...). But I agree, sometimes it's better to separate them. I am thinking about this: * Partner and contacts: single textbox * Employee name: first/last name We should may be provide an optionnal module that does this (adding 2 fields for first/last name, replacing the existing name by a function computed on these 2 files). It's only a few lines of code. -- Fabien Tiny ERP - when brains matter more than size -- George Jacobson, 2005 ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
[quote=mickgardner]I have a developer that i've asked to work on an indian payroll module. I'd love him to be able to work with you both an help in any way. I'd rather this than double up on work etc. Also I'm in Michael Gardner[/quote] Here's a test page I have up which lists all the vars cdnpayroll accepts for use. Revenue Canada (my federal government) says they test it every year. N.b. it does not do Quebec. http://cdnpayroll.gemlog.ca/payform.html This morning (pacific time) I'm just now sorting out which fields I need to add to the employee table, which fields may be derived (either from a query for PTD stuff, accumulated hours or from a simple calculation) and which fields need to go somewhere else entirely. WCB is compulsory accident insurance for the workplace and it varies by job function, so I think that should be added to Product. That way there would be, say, an hourly insurance rate for 'Steep Slope Roofing' hourly labour, but a different one for 'Low Slope Roofing' hourly labour. That's one actual example out of many. Plus, it's been years since I wrote the original and I plumb forget just what some of the more esoteric vars represent :) When I have some views and classes I'll post back. In the meantime Mike, maybe you can glance over that test form and see what is similar, different and missing for India, but I imagine those will all need to be completely different from country to country. ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
mickgardner wrote: Also I'm in the process of gathering some of the Indian payroll requirements that would need to be taken into consideration. Until a couple of hours ago I didn't think that there would be a UK requirement (very many companies offer payroll calculation services at a few £ per person per month - stiff competition). But then I was told how easy it might be (stands to reason, given the availability of services, I suppose) and was pointed to a splendid-looking free (Open Source? I suppose) system, payrollBash (http://www.payrollbash.co.uk/index.html), that is up to date. I haven't had time to tease out the requirements for a Tiny-based system based on this, but it looks well documented. Feel free to consider or ignore as you wish :-), depending on how generic you want to make it. I'm sure some of us in the UK could help specify, develop and/or test (but not all of us in the next week or so, at least). Regards, Geoff Seath Solutions Ltd (http://www.seathsolutions.com) ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
[quote=gegard][quote=mickgardner]Also I'm in the process of gathering some of the Indian payroll requirements that would need to be taken into consideration. [/quote] But then I was told how easy it might be (stands to reason, given the availability of services, I suppose) and was pointed to a splendid-looking free (Open Source? I suppose) system, payrollBash (http://www.payrollbash.co.uk/index.html), that is up to date. Regards, Geoff[/quote] I d/l'd it for sport and had a look. It's an unbelievable 15,106 lines of bash. That's positively mashochistic -- I switch languages if I write more than a screen or two of bash. Wow. ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
Ok, I'm no payroll expert, but there must be a way of designing payroll for tinyerp so that it starts with a fairly neutral 'payroll' module then, separate, country specific modules are added ? What does everyone think? If we can come up with a way of designing this then we can work together, otherwise i guess there will simply be country specific modules for each and all of payroll's functions. One idea is that with any countries payroll there are common things like: different kinds of leave Items that subtract from your pay like taxes Items that add to your final pay like allowances Items on top of your pay like 'superannuation' or 'provident fund' Perhaps our 'bashing' accountant friend might know? --- On another note: payrollBash, truly an incredible achievement, from a retired accountant. Anyone who can write that much bash in one program deserves some sort of medal. Is there a world record for that kind of thing? Michael Gardner Michael Gardner Partner Karmine Consulting ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
knowledge of cdnpayroll.gemlog.ca, I think we can build something quite quickly. Thanks for your kind offer Fabien. I will be back to you tomorrow as it's still Sunday for me here. ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
[quote=mickgardner]So as a follow-up question, did anything ever happen with payroll? I imagine over the years that at least ONE company has asked for payroll to be developed. After-all, you have virtually everything else covered in this package. Isn't there a payroll module out there somewhere that someone's developed for a customer? Michaelg[/quote] fabien discovered cdnpayroll.gemlog.ca before I'd heard of tinyerp. I'm working on integration (for Canada). ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
[Tinyerp-users] Re: Complete Payroll Integration
So as a follow-up question, did anything ever happen with payroll? I imagine over the years that at least ONE company has asked for payroll to be developed. After-all, you have virtually everything else covered in this package. Isn't there a payroll module out there somewhere that someone's developed for a customer? Michaelg Michael Gardner Partner Karmine Consulting ___ Tinyerp-users mailing list http://tiny.be/mailman/listinfo/tinyerp-users
