Re: [Vo]:A bit more, from Hiddink...
2009/6/21 mix...@bigpond.com: In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Sat, 20 Jun 2009 10:33:26 +0200: Hi, [snip] PPS I still don't see how a plasma can support charge on its surface, anyone can enlighten me on this? [snip] That's the one thing that doesn't surprise me in the least. Surely, it just acts like any other conductor, with a slightly higher number of charges of one polarity relative to charges of the other polarity (e.g. slightly more electrons)? But on a solid conductor, there is a lattice of nuclei to hold the excess electrons back. What is it that holds them back when they are in thin air, preventing them from flying spontaneously to the other plate? The excess charge is balanced by a shortage on the opposite plate of the capacitor. When the plasma is turned off, the excess charges attempt to reach one another via the only path available to them, which is via ground, Assuming for a moment the plasma was actually holding excess electrons, why wouldn't they just fly to the inside of the glass envelope, which is of course positively charged, and remain stuck on that dielectric? This would result in a larger capacitor with the same charge, i.e. a drop in capacitor voltage. Michel resulting in a high voltage on the external spherical capacitor, which now has a much smaller capacitance. (However I am lead to wonder why a bolt of lightning doesn't simply pass through the glass envelope as the voltage rises).
Re: [Vo]:New drill to make geothermal easier
On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:57 AM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to David Jonsson's message of Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:48:21 +0200: Hi David, [snip] The magma is hot becasue it is pressurised. This is not the only reason it is hot. There is also *at least* radioactive decay. (And perhaps also some CF considering the small amount of Tritium that is occasionally also detected - though this could also be a byproduct of spontaneous fission). When you pick it up to earth it will expand and cool. [snip] Volcano. OK, I have to admit I haven't studied the magma but only the crust. And it surprises me much that the magma has an adiabatic gradient of only 0.3 K/km. How was that calculated? You did the calculation. AFAIK others just measure it. No this calculation was made by someone else. I just referred to it from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal#Variations It would be very interesting to know how they calculated it. From solid state physics, experimentally or something else. Measuring an adiabatic gradient is not easy and doing it on location below the crust seems impossible. Admit that the crust will cool if picked up. Certainly something will cool (the energy to fight gravity has to come from somewhere), but what comes to the surface may not be the same thing that cools. The calculation I presented earlier, which I now removed, showed that the heat gradient balances compression in the crust. Thermal expansion compensates for elastic compression. Why? I'm not sure how relevant it is, but I did the following simple calculation, which assumes that the gravitational energy of a falling body is all converted into heat. For stone, the specific heat is about 2 cal/gm*K. If we divide g (gravitational acceleration at the Earth's surface) by this, we get 11.7 K/km. Corect, I also did that initially, and that is the method used for gases where the constituent moleculeas mostly are in free fall. In solid and liquid matter this is no longer the case where molecules and atomes are tightly bound to each other. But exactly how tightly bound are they? I suggest someone with a centrifuge to make an experiment. Desktop centrifuges can now produce one million g. Maybe solid state physics can determine how tightly bond atoms are in a crystal? Regards David
[Vo]:Alternatives to the divergence theorem and Greens theorem
Hi It is known that a surface integral of something around a volume can be equal to a volume integral. I wonder if someone has worked with the volume outside. Imagine a ball in air. The airdrag on it is typically calculated by integrating the force over its area. An equivalent would be to integrate the power losses in the fluid in all space outside the ball. There would also be an equivalent for two dimensions. Maybe the divergence theorem could be used to show this? Maybe by just applying it two times and showing that the outer surface integral goes to zero as the radius increases? Or maybe by having a small tube connecting the two surfaces and showing that the area integral of the tube reaches zero as the tube radius becomes smaller? David David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370
[Vo]:beyond critical
Speaking of how politics and energy overlap... Here is a supercritical way that the DoE could reduce natural gas usage significantly: http://www.r744.com/knowledge/faq/files/ecocute_all.pdf Why aren't we doing this here, or even talking about it? Answer: the natural gas lobby is rich and powerful, but even more importantly - few American manufacturers could be competitive using US labor to build the units, and since we do not want to import them, and sent dollars to Asia - which would mean a net loss of our jobs, then this will probably never happen here.
Re: [Vo]:beyond critical
CUTE and CRIEPI? On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 9:12 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Speaking of how politics and energy overlap... Here is a supercritical way that the DoE could reduce natural gas usage significantly: http://www.r744.com/knowledge/faq/files/ecocute_all.pdf Why aren't we doing this here, or even talking about it? Answer: the natural gas lobby is rich and powerful, but even more importantly - few American manufacturers could be competitive using US labor to build the units, and since we do not want to import them, and sent dollars to Asia - which would mean a net loss of our jobs, then this will probably never happen here.
Re: [Vo]:beyond critical
On Jun 21, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Jones Beene wrote: Speaking of how politics and energy overlap... Here is a supercritical way that the DoE could reduce natural gas usage significantly: http://www.r744.com/knowledge/faq/files/ecocute_all.pdf Why aren't we doing this here, or even talking about it? A very good question, Jones. I suggest another answer beside the one you offer exists. The US population, which increasingly is asked to set policy, is either too ignorant of the issues or is fighting with each other over ideological issues. For example, even this list is uninterested in discussing the political issues that influence how decisions are made. Any approach that can be called socialism immediately generates an emotional response by a few people, which is enough to stop the discussion. Any approach that suggests the system needs to be guided by adult supervision is viewed as a threat to capitalism. As a result, the powerful industries set policy while the rest of us fight among ourselves. This worked great until the financial industry bought permission from Congress to maximize their profit, which totally screwed up the system. This event made a change necessary. This change has become especially important because many scientific solutions are available to solve our problems, but they won't be implemented simply because this would reduce the profit or influence of a powerful lobby. Instead, we discuss these solutions here as if we were actually doing something useful when, in fact, the science is not usually the reason the ideas are not used. I find this situation very frustrating and hope other people share this feeling. Ed Answer: the natural gas lobby is rich and powerful, but even more importantly - few American manufacturers could be competitive using US labor to build the units, and since we do not want to import them, and sent dollars to Asia - which would mean a net loss of our jobs, then this will probably never happen here.
Re: [Vo]:beyond critical
This article describes a Japanese heat pump to heat water, which reduces gas consumption by 30% compared to a natural gas fired heater. That's pretty good. It might find a market in urban areas or for large buildings, which is what the prototype in the article appears to show. However, for most water heating applications in Japan I think they should stick to roof-mounted solar heaters. In that climate they are incredibly effective most of the year. They are also very cheap. They should use these in Florida, as well. I think I read that in Australia they are now mandatory for new construction. Of course you could use both, but I doubt that any heat pump could increase the temperature of water from a solar heater in Japan for 9 months of the year. I think it makes more sense to use conventional gas heating as an auxiliary heater when solar does not work well, on rainy days or in winter. This is how most people I know do it. Also, most people use the heater exclusively for the bath, or the bath and washing machine, and they use a hot-water-on-demand instant heater in the kitchen. Most domestic hot water consumption in Japan is for the bath. On recent trips to Japan and photos on the news, I have been struck by the large number of houses and buildings with PV electric panels on the roof, especially in southern Japan, which is the only place I ever go. The price of PV panels has apparently fallen drastically, and they are spreading rapidly. Electric power is expensive in Japan. The climate in southern Japan is like Florida's, and sunny most of the time. PV and solar water heater policies and gov't support that works there may not apply to Iowa or New York. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:beyond critical
On Jun 21, 2009, at 6:12 AM, Jones Beene wrote: Speaking of how politics and energy overlap... Here is a supercritical way that the DoE could reduce natural gas usage significantly: http://www.r744.com/knowledge/faq/files/ecocute_all.pdf The heat pump is run by electricity. Right now electric energy costs about 3 times as much as gas, so a 30 percent energy improvement is not much economically speaking. Once we are converted to primarily nuclear and renewable energy, the price of both may in a decade or two drop significantly, because the renewable energy capital cost will likely disappear before the plant does, on average. I think heat pumps are best implemented as a hybrid thermal well and solar system. The temperature of thermal wells stays well above ambient temperature. They are very effective here in alaska. When combined with a solar hot water collector, thermal solar energy in the day can be used to heat the thermal well to store energy and increase overall system efficiency. I think solar photovoltaic can integrate nicely with this as well. Solar cells take about 15% of the solar radiation for electrical energy production, but the left over energy is still available as heat. Solar cell clad hot water (or other heat collecting fluid) piping can thus be used to heat a thermal well while simultaneously producing photovoltaic energy for pumping the water. None of this is new thinking. The full integration of such a hybrid system might be though. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
[Vo]:Dateline: 2013
There are many reasons why the dollar and the US economy collapsed in 2013. Historians offer many opinions on the chain of events that led to the Federal government defaulting on its debt. However, one factor is widely agreed upon: The sudden emergence of Cold Fusion - while hailed as progress in the global warming fight - caused economic collapse in utilities and the use and trade balance related export of coal as a triggering event. It did little, however, to reduce massive US imports of oil which kept weakening an already fragile currency because the generation of more electricity was not generally related to transportation or chemical feedstocks. Looking back on the event and the worldwide depression we now live in, at least global warming has declined as a threat due to the massive drop in fossil energy use now associated with global poverty.
Re: [Vo]:Dateline: 2013
Nicely done and very near the truth, but with this additional information that recently came to light. Further analysis reveals that the first use of cold fusion was in China where it helped the government off set the collapse in the dollar in 2010 by reducing the country's use of oil. This secret program was not known to the world at the time and now explains why the use of oil by China abruptly dropped and continues to decline. At the same time, the use of oil by the US and the West continued to rise until the final economic collapse in 2013 when the success of the Chinese was finally discovered. Ed On Jun 21, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Chris Zell wrote: There are many reasons why the dollar and the US economy collapsed in 2013. Historians offer many opinions on the chain of events that led to the Federal government defaulting on its debt. However, one factor is widely agreed upon: The sudden emergence of Cold Fusion - while hailed as progress in the global warming fight - caused economic collapse in utilities and the use and trade balance related export of coal as a triggering event. It did little, however, to reduce massive US imports of oil which kept weakening an already fragile currency because the generation of more electricity was not generally related to transportation or chemical feedstocks. Looking back on the event and the worldwide depression we now live in, at least global warming has declined as a threat due to the massive drop in fossil energy use now associated with global poverty.
RE: [Vo]:beyond critical
-Original Message- From: Horace Heffner The heat pump is run by electricity. Right now electric energy costs about 3 times as much as gas, so a 30 percent energy improvement is not much economically speaking. Yes and no. If gas were not a limited resource, in effect controlled by an oligarchy, then what you say would be true. But the supply and demand situation can make the cost (whether partly artificial or not) very different with only a tiny drop in demand. In the age of Peak Oil, the closer that demand and supply come together, the more exponential the price curve gyrations can become, as we have witnessed first-hand in recent months. Ergo in this kind of false free market, brought on by peak conditions intersecting with greed, using electricity instead of natural gas could result in consistent net savings to the consumer over time. Look at last year. Natural gas was almost three times higher in price than now on the spot market, over $12/mcf vs ~4 - YET - get this: demand has fallen only 3% - huge difference in those variables that indicates the way things will be in the future. This situation could more than make up for the 3x cost of electric if we encourage a switch away from gas. The grid company profits are regulated as a public utility, unlike the petroleum cartel. That is to say, the supercritical heat pump results in 30% less total gas consumption, but the net cost to the consumer can be lowered in a much different way due to the supply and demand considerations. A tiny drop in demand results in a massive drop in price, which was artificially high due to suppliers in a near-oligarchy being able to hold back production, as we approached peak conditions. This was the unsaid part of the BIG LIE about natural gas, the one that T-Bone Pickens has been promoting to try to get things back to the way they were. What a disgusting con-artist that guy is, and always has been. I think heat pumps are best implemented as a hybrid thermal well and solar system. That is true, but in general - and in a world where cartels and oligarchies are permitted, when allowed to operate unimpeded as has been the case, I think the US consumer is better-off to chose electricity over gas - since this gives the public utility the opportunity to use its greater buying power to get the best price on whatever fuel or method gives the lowest cost electricity. It probably would help the situation if we also make executive salaries in the public utilites dependent on finding the lowest price for the consumer. Jones
[Vo]:Hiddink capacitor links
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009, Michel Jullian wrote: Assuming for a moment the plasma was actually holding excess electrons, why wouldn't they just fly to the inside of the glass envelope, which is of course positively charged, and remain stuck on that dielectric? This would result in a larger capacitor with the same charge, i.e. a drop in capacitor voltage. I finally noticed the word hiddink. I thought this thread was about general principles, rather than about this patent: http://www.rexresearch.com/hiddink/hiddink.htm Yep, Michel has it right: a plasma is somewhat like a liquid metal, and if you used it for capacitor plates, they'd flow towards each other. Hiddink has wrong ideas: if a conductive capacitor plate suddenly becomes an insulator, then its charge must disappears? No. Its charge just becomes immobile, either trapped on the gas ions, or trapped on surfaces where the gas ions migrated.Metal is to plastic, as salt-water is to ice. Saltwater is a conductor because it's full of movable charges, but when you freeze it, it turns insulating. The charges just get solidified, they don't disappear. BIG PROBLEM: What if Bequerel had stuck to his guns, and insisted against all evidence that uranium can store sunlight? Imagine what might have happened if he'd sneeringly kept pushing his private theory, the one where uranium fogs film plates only if you leave the uranium ore in sunlight first. That was Bequerel's original idea. Because it went against observations, he discarded it. If he'd hotly defended it against everyone, used namecalling against all critics, and refused to slightly consider that he might be wrong, then it's certain that other researchers would recoil in disgust. And next, they'd refuse to try replicating the effect. Perhaps they'd even ignore his first report: that uranium fogs film. BIGGER PROBLEM: crackpots are crackpots whenever they discover a new unexplained phenomenon, then skip over any need for detailed description. Instead they jump immediately to pushing their personal idea, fight any suggestion of their own error, and perhaps hide any parts of their observations which don't fit their theories. (Hmmm, what if Hiddick didn't see any lightning at all, but heard a loud bang?) And, if their theories are genuinely flawed and crazy ...then nobody tries replicating the anomaly, and everyone ignores the crackpot's original observations. The same thing happened with Hutchison Effect. Hutchison pushes all sorts of personal theories, refuses to consider that they might be wrong, and is therefore labeled as a crackpot. No professional researcher bothers to check whether his anomalies can be replicated, or even considers the possibility that they might have been real. Possibly the same thing happened with the Searl effect: a genuine gravity phenomenon is ignored because its discoverer uses it to promote an incorrect personal theory, while rejecting all possibility of personal error. So, what if everything Hiddick observed ...is actually real? His explanation of the phenomenon still could be wrong. Suppose he'd started out by trying to verify an incorrect theory, then stumbled over a weird phenomenon by accident? In his mind, finding any odd event is certain proof that his earthshaking theory must be true. But Murphy's Law says that the odd event is a matter of dumb luck, and it has nothing to do with the theory that led him to that experiment. On the other hand, the discovery of an EMP death ray is probably best left in the alt-science netherworld, forgotten and untested. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Smoke Ring?
Those kinds of smoke rings are fairly common. The smoke is trapped in the narrow core of a much larger ring-vortex. It's laminar, otherwise the smoke would appear as a whirling cloudy structure. I heard that some local guys ten years ago set off a homemade gasoline bomb in a parking lot. They said that its fireball created a perfect black ring which lasted for over an hour, rising the whole time. A common anomaly in actual volcanoes is steam rings, vast laminar smoke rings launched outwards from vents. Mount Etna does it all the time. Go find some pictures (I see a sharply-defined laminar one, and a cloudy turbulent one, both white steam.) Also, http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread413894/pg1 On Wed, 17 Jun 2009, Terry Blanton wrote: Whatever this UFO was, it scared the family: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/06/16/dnt.va.ufo.sighting.wavy France, Brazil, Denmark and others have recently opened their UFO files. Is some sort of disclosure underway? Terry (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Hiddink capacitor links
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:45 AM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sun, 21 Jun 2009, Michel Jullian wrote: Assuming for a moment the plasma was actually holding excess electrons, why wouldn't they just fly to the inside of the glass envelope, which is of course positively charged, and remain stuck on that dielectric? This would result in a larger capacitor with the same charge, i.e. a drop in capacitor voltage. I finally noticed the word hiddink. I thought this thread was about general principles, rather than about this patent: http://www.rexresearch.com/hiddink/hiddink.htm Yep, Michel has it right: a plasma is somewhat like a liquid metal, and if you used it for capacitor plates, they'd flow towards each other. Hiddink has wrong ideas: if a conductive capacitor plate suddenly becomes an insulator, then its charge must disappears? No. Its charge just becomes immobile, either trapped on the gas ions, or trapped on surfaces where the gas ions migrated. That was my initial objection also, I believe that *can* happen. I also know that sometimes when a plasma is turned off the charges (electrons anyway) can be propelled into the environment. Tesla found this and so have most people who have played with Tesla coils and similar. And it isn't ion wind, it is something decidedly more instant which can easily make it through insulators. Metal is to plastic, as salt-water is to ice. Saltwater is a conductor because it's full of movable charges, but when you freeze it, it turns insulating. The charges just get solidified, they don't disappear. All true of course. BIG PROBLEM: What if Bequerel had stuck to his guns, and insisted against all evidence that uranium can store sunlight? Imagine what might have happened if he'd sneeringly kept pushing his private theory, the one where uranium fogs film plates only if you leave the uranium ore in sunlight first. That was Bequerel's original idea. Because it went against observations, he discarded it. If he'd hotly defended it against everyone, used namecalling against all critics, and refused to slightly consider that he might be wrong, then it's certain that other researchers would recoil in disgust. And next, they'd refuse to try replicating the effect. Perhaps they'd even ignore his first report: that uranium fogs film. BIGGER PROBLEM: crackpots are crackpots whenever they discover a new unexplained phenomenon, then skip over any need for detailed description. Instead they jump immediately to pushing their personal idea, fight any suggestion of their own error, and perhaps hide any parts of their observations which don't fit their theories. (Hmmm, what if Hiddick didn't see any lightning at all, but heard a loud bang?) You have only got a tiny part of this if you think it is all about Hiddink. And, if their theories are genuinely flawed and crazy ...then nobody tries replicating the anomaly, and everyone ignores the crackpot's original observations. The same thing happened with Hutchison Effect. Hutchison pushes all sorts of personal theories, refuses to consider that they might be wrong, and is therefore labeled as a crackpot. No professional researcher bothers to check whether his anomalies can be replicated, or even considers the possibility that they might have been real. Possibly the same thing happened with the Searl effect: a genuine gravity phenomenon is ignored because its discoverer uses it to promote an incorrect personal theory, while rejecting all possibility of personal error. So, what if everything Hiddick observed ...is actually real? His explanation of the phenomenon still could be wrong. Suppose he'd started out by trying to verify an incorrect theory, then stumbled over a weird phenomenon by accident? To a degree I believe this is what happened. I don't believe Hiddink actually thought about the charges at all, it is my idea that they are ejected not Hiddink who ignores the charges once the plasma collapses. So you can more easily access it I will repost a new version of my initial post on the subject under the new thread Energy generating variable capacitor in a few minutes. In his mind, finding any odd event is certain proof that his earthshaking theory must be true. But Murphy's Law says that the odd event is a matter of dumb luck, and it has nothing to do with the theory that led him to that experiment. On the other hand, the discovery of an EMP death ray is probably best left in the alt-science netherworld, forgotten and untested. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
[Vo]:Energy generating variable capacitor
Reposted and revised version of the introduction to this idea for those who missed it. I like to make correlations to pick threads of truth out of the noise. I believe I have found one that IMO seems to give an almost complete and certain engineerable Free Energy effect, I believe that unlike most Free Energy effects this one is robust and that most all of the necessary conditions for success are reasonably known. A long time ago, on a list I was on was this crazy guy named Joseph Hiddink, he made some wild claims about an electrostatic generator that didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time. However more recently I saw a correlation between Joseph Hiddink's claim and another device, namely Edwin Gray's conversion tube, however this correlation spread to 2 or 3 other devices. Ronald Stiffler of SEC fame was inspired by a post I made on the subject and attempted and reported succeeds in replication of the effect, He replicated Hiddinks pulse effecting electronics and even reported getting excess energy out of it. So what is the effect? The effect is very easy to explain on a basic level, as most anyone reading this should be able to appreciate the capacity of a 2 plate parallel capacitor is greater than the capacity of a single terminal capacitor of similar size. Electrostatic induction machines work by charging a parallel plate capacitor to a low voltage, the plates are then separated reducing the capacity which causes the voltage and energy on the capacitor to raise dramatically, of course you had to do work against the electrostatic field to pull the plates apart. The method involved here is to turn a 2 terminal capacitor into a one terminal capacitor, to do this one terminal (plate, cylinder) is metal but the other is a thread of plasma, an arc, once you stop the plasma (arc) it collapses and that plate no longer exists, the voltage and energy on the remaining metal terminal is raised significantly. Ok, that is how Hiddink explains his device, he has made it and reports others who have, and of course Stiffler more recently did so too. see his patent here: http://www.rexresearch.com/hiddink/hiddink.htm But before we get any further I am not going to insult your intelligence, not everything is yet solved, there were charges on the plasma, when the plasma stopped being a plasma what happened to these charges? Well the good news is that if you do it right they don't just stay in the gas. Hiddink reported killing electronics in the area, And actually I just replied to someone who tested a Gray tube who reported killing a whole pack of distant diodes. And it is well known that Tesla Coils can charge distant metal in the lab despite being run in a fully AC mode, this charge in instant and penetrates insulation. Tesla of course reported shock waves being issues from wires and arcs on making and breaking circuits, he could feel a stinging effect and it would create a radiant charging effect on distant metals. BRSF shows this charging effect in action in one of their videos. It is worth noting that Stiffler found that a very sudden collapse was required to get the pulse, the plasma had to be collapsed by disconnection at both ends in his tests. But I bet you want more evidence. Well what if JLN successfully replicated this and got overunity results? Better yet what about a patent where JLN is a coinventor: http://www.google.com/patents?q=10%2F472%2C714btnG=Search+Patents They use the Hiddink effect (and admit to such) to gain overunity operation. They charge plates and plasma tubes as a capacitor, shut off the plasma and use the energy in the capacitor. Ok, want another? How about Imris Pavel: http://www.rexresearch.com/imris/imris.htm Here too if the name didn't give it away Optical Electrostatic Generator we have a capacitance between an arc that is made and broken and an outer capacitor termed an absolute condenser, an electrical oscillation takes place between the plasma and this outer condenser, this is the same effect and again overunity operation is achived. There may be another example. Though the workings of the Testatika are not fully known, Paul Baumann gave this hint about the function fof his generator: Mr.*Paul Baumann* claims, its running principle was found by studying the *lightning* effects from nature. Hmmm, well we have a Whimhust style style electrostatic generator, it makes sense that it must discharge and how can a device be based on the effects of lightenibng if the device does not even involve the small scale version of lightening? Those metal cylinders with the holes in them however are perfect as the outer capacitor plate if an arc is hidden inside, let me explain why. We know that charges, Ok I'm going to assume it's really only electrons that are sprayed around, are released from plasma (perhaps wire too) in a way that seems both not as deadly as normal beta radiation and yet far more rapid than ion wind, it seems they can pass through metal indeed
Re: [Vo]:A bit more, from Hiddink...
In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:08:15 +0200: Hi, [snip] Assuming for a moment the plasma was actually holding excess electrons, why wouldn't they just fly to the inside of the glass envelope, which is of course positively charged, and remain stuck on that dielectric? This would result in a larger capacitor with the same charge, i.e. a drop in capacitor voltage. [snip] I suspect that there is already charge on the inside of the glass. However you are correct in as much as I also can't see any reason why it wouldn't just stay there. IOW maybe this device really doesn't work as advertised. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:New drill to make geothermal easier
In reply to David Jonsson's message of Sun, 21 Jun 2009 11:33:08 +0200: Hi, [snip] Measuring an adiabatic gradient is not easy and doing it on location below the crust seems impossible. Temperatures at various depths in oil wells? Corect, I also did that initially, and that is the method used for gases where the constituent moleculeas mostly are in free fall. In solid and liquid matter this is no longer the case where molecules and atomes are tightly bound to each other. But exactly how tightly bound are they? I suggest someone with a centrifuge to make an experiment. Desktop centrifuges can now produce one million g. Consider that initially the Earth was formed from matter falling inward. What form it had is irrelevant. All that matters is how much of that energy has been able to escape since formation. Maybe solid state physics can determine how tightly bond atoms are in a crystal? Just look at the melting and boiling points of the substance. That will tell you how much thermal energy is needed to pull it apart. e.g. the phase change energy of melting salts is proportional to the melting point. This makes sense, because a higher melting point implies a stronger chemical bond, which in turn means that more energy needs to be added to break it. At the atomic level, the inter atomic distances for most crystals are usually on the order of 2-3 Angstrom. Since energy is force x distance, and the distances are mostly similar, the bond energy correlates with bond strength (force). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:A bit more, from Hiddink...
It's not so much seeing a reason for it to occur as i tend not to either as much as there is evidence that it DOES in fact occur when the conditions are met. On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:08 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:08:15 +0200: Hi, [snip] Assuming for a moment the plasma was actually holding excess electrons, why wouldn't they just fly to the inside of the glass envelope, which is of course positively charged, and remain stuck on that dielectric? This would result in a larger capacitor with the same charge, i.e. a drop in capacitor voltage. [snip] I suspect that there is already charge on the inside of the glass. However you are correct in as much as I also can't see any reason why it wouldn't just stay there. IOW maybe this device really doesn't work as advertised. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Hiddink capacitor links
- Original Message - From: John Berry aethe...@gmail.com Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:43 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hiddink capacitor links On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:45 AM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: Metal is to plastic, as salt-water is to ice. Saltwater is a conductor because it's full of movable charges, but when you freeze it, it turns insulating. The charges just get solidified, they don't disappear. All true of course. Not entirely. Some plastics are good conductors: http://www.physorg.com/news62938583.html Harry
