Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Frank Grimer]

"Jones Beene must be a lawyer..." He was - and possibly still is. ;-)

On 4 June 2016 at 05:06, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Jones Beene: "Their opinions are* de minimis..." *
>
> Jones Beene must be a lawyer of at least work with them alot.
>
> My lawyer oftentimes describes aspects of my case as *de minimis*
>
>
> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis
> *
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>> *From:* Peter Gluck
>>
>> Do you think you are convincing many people here?
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> Duh! Your question about JR convincing the important technologists in
>> the field is almost silly, IMO. Because of his extended reputation in
>> LERN over many years, his International connections, his dedication to
>> the field and to maintaining an incredible library - and high skill level
>> in many fields -- Jed has steered many, if not the great majority of
>> scientists to his perspective. There is no other as well-respected in
>> the entire field, including Storms and McKubre.
>>
>> He’s had less success with Rossi’s hard-core minions, but many now
>> suspect that the emperor has no cloths … yet are too idealistic to give
>> up easily. Their opinions are* de minimis* at best in terms of the
>> technology itself. Sure, if Jed is wrong, his reputation will suffer
>> badly but the same holds true for you (or any of us).
>>
>> There is a third possibility - that Jed will be mostly right, but not
>> totally. It is pretty clear from everything which has transpired in the
>> last month, that AR cannot live up to the specifics of the contract. However,
>> it is difficult to believe that he has nothing to show for many years of
>> effort and millions spent, in a field where there has been prior success
>> by others. That would mean that Rossi is totally incompetent and probably
>> mentally ill… and at best, a Svengali of sorts. He seems to totally
>> captivate the Swedish mind-set, for whatever reason.
>>
>> Certainly Rossi can still manage to salvage his sinking ship if he honestly
>> and openly demonstrates a substantial thermal anomaly with his latest
>> effort, if only for a few days duration, and low COP. He would lose the
>> battle with IH, but could win the war, many years down the road when
>> things are better understood … unless he is mad.
>>
>> What he cannot do is facilitate another sham like Lugano and expect to
>> maintain his loyal following, with instant creds or future investment. This
>> looks like a last chance opportunity. Can he pull it off?
>>
>> Rossi is surely deluded in this recurrent vision of upcoming mass
>> production, or even having a real customer. As to the point (as several
>> have noted) – that he did manage to arouse new interest in the field and
>> deserves recognition for that….well… DGT also raised interest in LENR,
>> and in fact, cross-validated Rossi for a while. Several here thought DGT
>> was real and had leap-frogged Rossi. Without the both of them in 2003,
>> neither would have looked good.
>>
>> But the DGT legacy is negative. If Rossi joins them in ignominy, LENR
>> will survive, but it would greatly shorten the timetable if he has
>> something left in his magic box.
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Axil Axil]

Jones Beene: "Their opinions are* de minimis..." *

Jones Beene must be a lawyer of at least work with them alot.

My lawyer oftentimes describes aspects of my case as *de minimis*


*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis
*

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> *From:* Peter Gluck
>
> Do you think you are convincing many people here?
>
> Peter,
>
> Duh! Your question about JR convincing the important technologists in the
> field is almost silly, IMO. Because of his extended reputation in LERN
> over many years, his International connections, his dedication to the
> field and to maintaining an incredible library - and high skill level in
> many fields -- Jed has steered many, if not the great majority of
> scientists to his perspective. There is no other as well-respected in the
> entire field, including Storms and McKubre.
>
> He’s had less success with Rossi’s hard-core minions, but many now
> suspect that the emperor has no cloths … yet are too idealistic to give up
> easily. Their opinions are* de minimis* at best in terms of the
> technology itself. Sure, if Jed is wrong, his reputation will suffer badly but
> the same holds true for you (or any of us).
>
> There is a third possibility - that Jed will be mostly right, but not
> totally. It is pretty clear from everything which has transpired in the
> last month, that AR cannot live up to the specifics of the contract. However,
> it is difficult to believe that he has nothing to show for many years of
> effort and millions spent, in a field where there has been prior success
> by others. That would mean that Rossi is totally incompetent and probably
> mentally ill… and at best, a Svengali of sorts. He seems to totally
> captivate the Swedish mind-set, for whatever reason.
>
> Certainly Rossi can still manage to salvage his sinking ship if he honestly
> and openly demonstrates a substantial thermal anomaly with his latest
> effort, if only for a few days duration, and low COP. He would lose the
> battle with IH, but could win the war, many years down the road when
> things are better understood … unless he is mad.
>
> What he cannot do is facilitate another sham like Lugano and expect to
> maintain his loyal following, with instant creds or future investment. This
> looks like a last chance opportunity. Can he pull it off?
>
> Rossi is surely deluded in this recurrent vision of upcoming mass
> production, or even having a real customer. As to the point (as several
> have noted) – that he did manage to arouse new interest in the field and
> deserves recognition for that….well… DGT also raised interest in LENR, and in
> fact, cross-validated Rossi for a while. Several here thought DGT was
> real and had leap-frogged Rossi. Without the both of them in 2003,
> neither would have looked good.
>
> But the DGT legacy is negative. If Rossi joins them in ignominy, LENR
> will survive, but it would greatly shorten the timetable if he has
> something left in his magic box.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Lennart Thornros  wrote:

> The difference between you and me is that:
> I do wait and see before I decide.
>
No you do not! That's outrageous. Here you are blathering on about Rossi,
making assumption after assumption, even though you know practically
nothing about his claims. He told you only a little: that he blocked the
door, and that his instruments produce magically round numbers. His machine
produces exactly 1 MW!

You, of all people, have no business claiming that you wait and see.

If you really did wait and see, you would say: "I have no idea whether I.H.
is right, or Rossi is right. I have no opinion." Instead, you make up all
kinds of far-fetched reasons to justify Rossi, and you say "could be many
reasons for" for blocking the door -- which can only be blatant fraud. If
you really think there "could be many reasons" for that, you are
delusional. The act speaks for itself.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
> Jed, you are repeating your argument and the one about not giving IH
> access to the customers facility is rather weak. Could be many reasons for
> that.
>
No, there could not be many reasons for that. There is only one plausible
reason: Rossi did not want the I.H. expert to see what was in the room
because he was covering up a fraud.

Why do you think the I.H. expert insisted he must see what is in the room?

Based on my analysis, I do not see how there could be anything in there
other than a ~15 kW radiator.

I am sure you have more information than I have.
>
I don't need any more information -- and neither do you. Blocking the door
proved he is a fraud. Although, in fact, I have more.

However, that information you keep to yourself and yes than it is of no
> value for anybody but Jed.
>
The information that Rossi gave out tells you all you need to know. The
information in the legal filings also tells you a lot.

I can tell you my opinion about Rossi, not that it matters but;
> He is an entrepreneur,  he is a risk taker,  he believes he has something
> and he is only taking support from other risk takers.
>
Entrepreneur my ass! I am an entrepreneur. Rossi is a fraud. He has
nothing. His machine does not work. The only risk he is running is that he
will be sentenced to prison. He has already taken large sums of money from
his next set of victims.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Lennart Thornros]

Eric, I have not even read their (IH) reply. From my experience I think
they are more vague than I expected from a professional investor. That
saddens me a bit. They have not denied the accusations about using positive
results from Rossi to attract capital, which I had expected.

Jed, you are repeating your argument and the one about not giving IH access
to the customers facility is rather weak. Could be many reasons for that.
I am sure you have more information than I have. However, that information
you keep to yourself and yes than it is of no value for anybody but Jed. It
is just like the argument in the sandbox when one guy says he his dad is
stronger than yours so believe in me.
The difference between you and me is that:
I do wait and see before I decide.
I do not label people.
I can tell you my opinion about Rossi, not that it matters but;
He is an entrepreneur,  he is a risk taker,  he believes he has something
and he is only taking support from other risk takers. That is far from
being an idiot. Regardless of the outcome.
On Jun 3, 2016 19:50, "Jed Rothwell"  wrote:

> Lennart Thornros  wrote:
>
>> No, Jed.
>> There are no facts.
>>
> Yes, there are. Rossi himself gave them to you. He said the I.H. expert
> insisted on seeing the customer site, but he did not allow it. If you think
> that points to anything other than fraud, you are a poor judge of people,
> business and calorimetry.
>
> Rossi as much as bragged that he is fraud! Yet people such as you and
> Gluck do not even see that he is playing you for fools.
>
> You have decided the outcome and then you make statements based on facts
>> you say are secret.
>>
> Do you have a problem with secrets? Is there something unethical about my
> making an analysis based on information that I have and you do not?
>
> Why can't you just reserve judgement? Just wait until the data is
> published. You have no business even talking about this, because you do not
> know anything about it other than the fact that Rossi bragged he locked the
> door on the customer site. Oh, and if you look at his numbers you will see
> they are surprisingly round, to 3 or 4 digits, and improbable in various
> other ways.
>
> The labeling of people is totally unsubstantiated and very biased plus
>> unnecessary rude.
>>
> Rossi himself announced to the world he is a fraud who locked the door to
> the pretend customer site -- the puppet customer set up by his own lawyer.
> And you say I insult him?!? What could I say that would be worse than what
> he said about himself? You can't insult the man. It's like trying to insult
> Donald Trump. Whatever insult you come up with, he brags about it already.
> There is no point to accusing him of being a philanderer when he writes
> books bragging about how many other men's wives he has seduced.
>
>
>> Wait and see or substantiate your claims.
>>
> Rossi did that for me already.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Lennart Thornros  wrote:

> No, Jed.
> There are no facts.
>
Yes, there are. Rossi himself gave them to you. He said the I.H. expert
insisted on seeing the customer site, but he did not allow it. If you think
that points to anything other than fraud, you are a poor judge of people,
business and calorimetry.

Rossi as much as bragged that he is fraud! Yet people such as you and Gluck
do not even see that he is playing you for fools.

You have decided the outcome and then you make statements based on facts
> you say are secret.
>
Do you have a problem with secrets? Is there something unethical about my
making an analysis based on information that I have and you do not?

Why can't you just reserve judgement? Just wait until the data is
published. You have no business even talking about this, because you do not
know anything about it other than the fact that Rossi bragged he locked the
door on the customer site. Oh, and if you look at his numbers you will see
they are surprisingly round, to 3 or 4 digits, and improbable in various
other ways.

The labeling of people is totally unsubstantiated and very biased plus
> unnecessary rude.
>
Rossi himself announced to the world he is a fraud who locked the door to
the pretend customer site -- the puppet customer set up by his own lawyer.
And you say I insult him?!? What could I say that would be worse than what
he said about himself? You can't insult the man. It's like trying to insult
Donald Trump. Whatever insult you come up with, he brags about it already.
There is no point to accusing him of being a philanderer when he writes
books bragging about how many other men's wives he has seduced.


> Wait and see or substantiate your claims.
>
Rossi did that for me already.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 9:34 PM, Lennart Thornros 
wrote:

IH has not played there hand very wisely, which surprise me. What are they
> hiding?


If you have had a chance to read IH's reply to Rossi's complaint, which of
the original claims to you believe to survive the reply? Consider that this
is just one step in a large series of actions that IH can potentially take.
Whatever one else can conclude from IH's reply, one gets a sense that
Rossi's lawyer is inexperienced.

Rossi has a difficult situation regardless of what he can show next. At
> least do not judge before you have facts. I mean facts supported of reality
> if you want any acknowledgement of your scientific claims. The personal
> attacks are way out of line.


I suspect that Rossi has seriously miscalculated.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Lennart Thornros]

No, Jed.
There are no facts.
You have decided the outcome and then you make statements based on facts
you say are secret.
The labeling of people is totally unsubstantiated and very biased plus
unnecessary rude.
Wait and see or substantiate your claims.
IH has not played there hand very wisely, which surprise me. What are they
hiding?
Rossi has a difficult situation regardless of what he can show next. At
least do not judge before you have facts. I mean facts supported of reality
if you want any acknowledgement of your scientific claims. The personal
attacks are way out of line.
On Jun 3, 2016 19:16, "Jed Rothwell"  wrote:

Peter Gluck  wrote:

How do you know what I know and what not?
>

I can tell by reading your blog.


Do you can give examples of unfounded nonsense
> and absurd mistakes I have made in this IH Rossi discussion.?
>

I gave you some examples, right in your blog. You and your Rossi-fan
readers dumped a bucket of shit on head in response, so I do not intend to
write any more comments there.

I suggested, again and again, that you should wait to hear what I.H. has to
say before judging this situation. You seem incapable of doing that, and
incapable of even imagining that Rossi is wrong or that he is a fraud.
Since you cannot wait and reserve judgement, you are not capable of
objective thinking regarding Rossi. You are driven by emotion. Rossi is
manipulating you with the lies in his blog.

You have not even addressed the fact that Rossi locked people out of the
customer site, including the I.H. expert who insisted he must have access.
There is no plausible reason for doing that other than fraud. You and other
people mesmerized by Rossi will probably think up dozens of reasons to
justify this outrage, but in the real world only one reason makes sense:
Rossi was hiding the truth about the customer site to cover up a fraud. I
expect there is no customer, no industrial equipment, and no ventilation. I
estimate there is at most ~15 kW of heat being released in the locked room.



> Do you think you are convincing many people here?
>

Only the people who are willing to look at facts, such as the fact that
Rossi refused to let the I.H. expert examine the pretend customer site.
People who refuse to think about that, or who give excuses for it, are a
lost cause.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:

> However, it is difficult to believe that he has nothing to show for many
> years of effort and millions spent, in a field where there has been prior
> success by others.
>
He did seem to have had positive results at various times.

Certainly Rossi can still manage to salvage his sinking ship if he honestly
> and openly demonstrates a substantial thermal anomaly with his latest
> effort, if only for a few days duration, and low COP. He would lose the
> battle with IH, but could win the war, many years down the road when
> things are better understood … unless he is mad.
>
I am pretty sure I.H. would be thrilled if he could do this. While I do not
speak for them, that's my impression. They are patient & forgiving people,
and they put up with a lot of guff from researchers. Not just from Rossi.
They might even be willing to pay Rossi large sums of money for that,
although I can't imagine they would give him $89 million right away.

I do not think Rossi is mad. I think he is in it for the money.


> What he cannot do is facilitate another sham like Lugano and expect to
> maintain his loyal following, with instant creds or future investment.
>
According to Lewan and various rumors I have heard, he has already found
his next group of victims, and he has collected money from them. I predict
he will go on defrauding people until he is imprisoned.

It is possible Rossi is a genius, an inventor, a fraud and a con man -- all
at the same time. That is how I would describe Thomas Edison and Steve
Jobs. In Rossi's case, I cannot tell whether he has actually invented
anything real.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:

How do you know what I know and what not?
>

I can tell by reading your blog.


Do you can give examples of unfounded nonsense
> and absurd mistakes I have made in this IH Rossi discussion.?
>

I gave you some examples, right in your blog. You and your Rossi-fan
readers dumped a bucket of shit on head in response, so I do not intend to
write any more comments there.

I suggested, again and again, that you should wait to hear what I.H. has to
say before judging this situation. You seem incapable of doing that, and
incapable of even imagining that Rossi is wrong or that he is a fraud.
Since you cannot wait and reserve judgement, you are not capable of
objective thinking regarding Rossi. You are driven by emotion. Rossi is
manipulating you with the lies in his blog.

You have not even addressed the fact that Rossi locked people out of the
customer site, including the I.H. expert who insisted he must have access.
There is no plausible reason for doing that other than fraud. You and other
people mesmerized by Rossi will probably think up dozens of reasons to
justify this outrage, but in the real world only one reason makes sense:
Rossi was hiding the truth about the customer site to cover up a fraud. I
expect there is no customer, no industrial equipment, and no ventilation. I
estimate there is at most ~15 kW of heat being released in the locked room.



> Do you think you are convincing many people here?
>

Only the people who are willing to look at facts, such as the fact that
Rossi refused to let the I.H. expert examine the pretend customer site.
People who refuse to think about that, or who give excuses for it, are a
lost cause.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jones Beene]

From: Peter Gluck 

Do you think you are convincing many people here?

Peter,

Duh! Your question about JR convincing the important technologists in the field 
is almost silly, IMO. Because of his extended reputation in LERN over many 
years, his International connections, his dedication to the field and to 
maintaining an incredible library - and high skill level in many fields -- Jed 
has steered many, if not the great majority of scientists to his perspective. 
There is no other as well-respected in the entire field, including Storms and 
McKubre. 

He’s had less success with Rossi’s hard-core minions, but many now suspect that 
the emperor has no cloths … yet are too idealistic to give up easily. Their 
opinions are de minimis at best in terms of the technology itself. Sure, if Jed 
is wrong, his reputation will suffer badly but the same holds true for you (or 
any of us). 

There is a third possibility - that Jed will be mostly right, but not totally. 
It is pretty clear from everything which has transpired in the last month, that 
AR cannot live up to the specifics of the contract. However, it is difficult to 
believe that he has nothing to show for many years of effort and millions 
spent, in a field where there has been prior success by others. That would mean 
that Rossi is totally incompetent and probably mentally ill… and at best, a 
Svengali of sorts. He seems to totally captivate the Swedish mind-set, for 
whatever reason.

Certainly Rossi can still manage to salvage his sinking ship if he honestly and 
openly demonstrates a substantial thermal anomaly with his latest effort, if 
only for a few days duration, and low COP. He would lose the battle with IH, 
but could win the war, many years down the road when things are better 
understood … unless he is mad.

What he cannot do is facilitate another sham like Lugano and expect to maintain 
his loyal following, with instant creds or future investment. This looks like a 
last chance opportunity. Can he pull it off?

Rossi is surely deluded in this recurrent vision of upcoming mass production, 
or even having a real customer. As to the point (as several have noted) – that 
he did manage to arouse new interest in the field and deserves recognition for 
that….well… DGT also raised interest in LENR, and in fact, cross-validated 
Rossi for a while. Several here thought DGT was real and had leap-frogged 
Rossi. Without the both of them in 2003, neither would have looked good. 

But the DGT legacy is negative. If Rossi joins them in ignominy, LENR will 
survive, but it would greatly shorten the timetable if he has something left in 
his magic box. 

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Peter Gluck]

How do you know what I know and what not?
Do you can give examples of unfounded nonsense
and absurd mistakes I have made in this IH Rossi discussion.?
Re false accusations I have not climed that you are simply lying re the
instrumentation dispute between the parts and also have not said that you
act as a mercenary of IH for occult reasons.
Do you think you are convincing many people here?
peter

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
>
>> Excuse me but without any details what you claim is just slogans.
>>
>
> YOU of all people have no right to say this! You know nothing about these
> tests, yet you have written blog entry after entry full of unfounded
> nonsense, false accusations and absurd mistakes. I have told you many times
> you should wait to see the information from I.H. and the reports from
> Rossi. You ignore me and you make up stuff instead.
>
> If you look at Rossi's previous tests you should not be surprised he made
> huge mistakes in this test. Frankly, I think it was deliberate fraud, not a
> mistake. It was inept fraud, that anyone can see in five minutes.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:


> Excuse me but without any details what you claim is just slogans.
>

YOU of all people have no right to say this! You know nothing about these
tests, yet you have written blog entry after entry full of unfounded
nonsense, false accusations and absurd mistakes. I have told you many times
you should wait to see the information from I.H. and the reports from
Rossi. You ignore me and you make up stuff instead.

If you look at Rossi's previous tests you should not be surprised he made
huge mistakes in this test. Frankly, I think it was deliberate fraud, not a
mistake. It was inept fraud, that anyone can see in five minutes.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:

Dear Jed,
> suppose I sign an NDA with you, can you then expaln me how was the
> calorimetry- heat measurement  so very flawed and has it transformed COP<1
> in COP 50-60
>

You need to ask Rossi or I.H. Now that the lawsuit has begun, I doubt they
will tell you anything.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Peter Gluck]

Dear Jed,
suppose I sign an NDA with you, can you then expaln me how was the
calorimetry- heat measurement  so very flawed and has it transformed COP<1
in COP 50-60
Technically please I am a chemical engineer nd have made many such
measurements in the plants and pilot plants
Excuse me but without any details what you claim is just slogans.


peter

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 9:57 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
> can you tell when had IH not accepted the instruments? (during the 1 year
>> test)?
>>
>
> I heard about it early in the test. I do not recall when. The problems
> were obvious, so I.H. knew about them from the beginning.  As I wrote here,
> several times, I was hoping Rossi would fix the problems, but he did not.
>
>
>
>> How long has Rosi and the ERV worked with instruments denied by IH and
>> did this not lead to  a major conflict including stopping of the test?
>>
>
> I suppose I.H. could not stop the test. I guess it wasn't up to them.
>
>
>
>> Do you consider what you say here as plausible?
>>
>
> Not just plausible -- I know for a fact this is what happened. Rossi
> described the situation to Lewan the same way I heard about it.
>
> Rossi already told you that the test was a farce. He told you that he did
> not allow people into the customer site. That's all you need to know. There
> were many other idiotic aspect of it such as the choice of instruments, but
> that fact alone proves he is a fraud. I do not know why you believe a word
> he says.
>
>
>
>> You have never alluded to such problems in 2015 so this seems to be
>> history built backwards.
>>
>
> I know many things I never discuss. I never talk about other people's
> business. The only things I have said here were revealed by the press
> releases, the legal filing, and by Rossi himself in the interview with
> Lewan and elsewhere.
>
>
>
>> IF it will be proved that the 1MW plant has given excess heat your
>> reputation built during the Cold Fusion yeasrs will be damaged very deeply.
>>
>
> It will not be proved. That is out of the question. The calorimetry was
> preposterous. The error margins are gigantic. It is possible the machine
> produced a little heat at times, but 1 MW is impossible.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:

can you tell when had IH not accepted the instruments? (during the 1 year
> test)?
>

I heard about it early in the test. I do not recall when. The problems were
obvious, so I.H. knew about them from the beginning.  As I wrote here,
several times, I was hoping Rossi would fix the problems, but he did not.



> How long has Rosi and the ERV worked with instruments denied by IH and did
> this not lead to  a major conflict including stopping of the test?
>

I suppose I.H. could not stop the test. I guess it wasn't up to them.



> Do you consider what you say here as plausible?
>

Not just plausible -- I know for a fact this is what happened. Rossi
described the situation to Lewan the same way I heard about it.

Rossi already told you that the test was a farce. He told you that he did
not allow people into the customer site. That's all you need to know. There
were many other idiotic aspect of it such as the choice of instruments, but
that fact alone proves he is a fraud. I do not know why you believe a word
he says.



> You have never alluded to such problems in 2015 so this seems to be
> history built backwards.
>

I know many things I never discuss. I never talk about other people's
business. The only things I have said here were revealed by the press
releases, the legal filing, and by Rossi himself in the interview with
Lewan and elsewhere.



> IF it will be proved that the 1MW plant has given excess heat your
> reputation built during the Cold Fusion yeasrs will be damaged very deeply.
>

It will not be proved. That is out of the question. The calorimetry was
preposterous. The error margins are gigantic. It is possible the machine
produced a little heat at times, but 1 MW is impossible.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Peter Gluck]

Dear Jed,

can you tell when had IH not accepted the instruments? (during the 1 year
test)? How long has Rosi and the ERV worked with instruments denied by IH
and did this not lead to  a major conflict including stopping of the test?
Do you consider what you say here as plausible?
You have never alluded to such problems in 2015 so this seems to be history
built backwards. IF it will be proved that the 1MW plant has given excess
heat your reputation built during the Cold Fusion yeasrs will be damaged
very deeply.
peter
peter

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
> But the Dismiss document is Information too
>>
> These accusations also. Why has IH accepted unsuitable instruments?
>>
>
> I.H. did not accept them! They objected strongly. They said there is no
> excess heat. They said Rossi used "flawed measurements" and "unsuitable
> measuring devices." Based on the sample of Rossi's calorimetry that I saw,
> anyone would say that. Anyone who walks into the room and sees the
> instruments would say, "what is this, a joke?"
>
> Heck, you do not even need to look at the instruments or data to see that
> this test was an outrageous farce. All you need to know is that Rossi
> refused to allow people into the customer site next door. Do you think
> there could be a legitimate reason for that? If you think that's okay, you
> would probably not see anything idiotic about the rest of the test.
>
> As Rossi said, the I.H. expert insisted he be allowed into the customer
> site. The expert agreed with me that this is outrageous.
>
>
>
>> Only the answer to this is genuine information?
>>
>
> I do not understand this sentence. The answer to what? I assume the
> information from Rossi is genuine.
>
>
>
>> I do not get the logic of this...
>>
>
> I do not know what you refer to.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:

But the Dismiss document is Information too
>
These accusations also. Why has IH accepted unsuitable instruments?
>

I.H. did not accept them! They objected strongly. They said there is no
excess heat. They said Rossi used "flawed measurements" and "unsuitable
measuring devices." Based on the sample of Rossi's calorimetry that I saw,
anyone would say that. Anyone who walks into the room and sees the
instruments would say, "what is this, a joke?"

Heck, you do not even need to look at the instruments or data to see that
this test was an outrageous farce. All you need to know is that Rossi
refused to allow people into the customer site next door. Do you think
there could be a legitimate reason for that? If you think that's okay, you
would probably not see anything idiotic about the rest of the test.

As Rossi said, the I.H. expert insisted he be allowed into the customer
site. The expert agreed with me that this is outrageous.



> Only the answer to this is genuine information?
>

I do not understand this sentence. The answer to what? I assume the
information from Rossi is genuine.



> I do not get the logic of this...
>

I do not know what you refer to.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

I gather IH's response is more of a legal formality.  Trying to dismiss 
the case so they can get it ruled on by a judge rather than a jury.
My reading of the statement puts IH in a rather poor light.  It's as if 
they set out to delay the 1 MW plant test on purpose because they just 
wanted the IP.


Rumor has it this is just part one of a of a series of responses that 
will drag things out for years.  I recall speculating years ago the the 
lousy patent situation would end up giving the lawyers more money than 
the inventors.


If Rossi is successful with the QuarkX test i think it will change the 
game.  Particularly if he can start selling them later this year.  Seems 
to me the tenor of the blog posts have changed and there is a swing back 
in favor of Rossi.

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Peter Gluck]

yes, dear Harry- in principle.
But the Dismiss document is Information too
These accusations also. Why has IH accepted unsuitable instruments?

Only the answer to this is genuine information?

I do not get the logic of this...
peter

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:12 PM, H LV  wrote:

> Peter, this is how private R works. Neither Leonardo Corp. nor IH owe
> the public any information.
>
> Harry
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Peter Gluck 
> wrote:
>
>> *dear Jed,*
>> *i have just been writing my answer to this assertion:*
>>
>> *Announced a year ago this could be an argument but even then how could
>> Rossi depart from the test plan; how many reactors were "inoperable" and in
>> which sense? Flawed measurements have to be reported immediately and what
>> unsuitable measuring instruments were used- for a long year for
>> temperature, pressure, flow- seismometers, dynamometers, microscopes?*
>>
>> *Now post-factum after 4 reports of the ERV, after alternative
>> measurements by IH employees. such arguments are dead.*
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Jed Rothwell 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> a.ashfield  wrote:
>>>
 IH has apparently sent Krivit a copy of their legal response to the
 court case.

>>> I expect he found it by some other means.
>>>
>>> From a quick scan it doesn’t look like they have stated the E-Cat
 doesn’t work . . .

>>>
>>> It says this on p. 2, in the footnote:
>>>
>>> "Guaranteed Performance Test" that the Complaint purposely ignores (such
>>> as departing from the purported test plan, ignoring inoperable reactors,
>>> relying on flawed measurements, and using unsuitable measuring devices).
>>>
>>> - Jed
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Peter Gluck
>> Cluj, Romania
>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[H LV]

Peter, this is how private R works. Neither Leonardo Corp. nor IH owe the
public any information.

Harry

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Peter Gluck  wrote:

> *dear Jed,*
> *i have just been writing my answer to this assertion:*
>
> *Announced a year ago this could be an argument but even then how could
> Rossi depart from the test plan; how many reactors were "inoperable" and in
> which sense? Flawed measurements have to be reported immediately and what
> unsuitable measuring instruments were used- for a long year for
> temperature, pressure, flow- seismometers, dynamometers, microscopes?*
>
> *Now post-factum after 4 reports of the ERV, after alternative
> measurements by IH employees. such arguments are dead.*
>
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Jed Rothwell 
> wrote:
>
>> a.ashfield  wrote:
>>
>>> IH has apparently sent Krivit a copy of their legal response to the
>>> court case.
>>>
>> I expect he found it by some other means.
>>
>> From a quick scan it doesn’t look like they have stated the E-Cat doesn’t
>>> work . . .
>>>
>>
>> It says this on p. 2, in the footnote:
>>
>> "Guaranteed Performance Test" that the Complaint purposely ignores (such
>> as departing from the purported test plan, ignoring inoperable reactors,
>> relying on flawed measurements, and using unsuitable measuring devices).
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:

*i have just been writing my answer to this assertion:*
>

Who made this assertion?



> *Announced a year ago this could be an argument but even then how could
> Rossi depart from the test plan; how many reactors were "inoperable" and in
> which sense?*
>

The 1 MW reactor is inoperative. I do not know about any other reactors.



> * Flawed measurements have to be reported immediately . . .*
>

Where did you hear this? Does the contract say flaws have to be reported
immediately? In any case, the flawed measurements were clear to the people
from I.H., and they were clear to me as soon as I saw a sample of the
calorimetry.



> *. . . and what unsuitable measuring instruments were used- for a long
> year for temperature, pressure, flow- seismometers, dynamometers,
> microscopes?*
>

The choice of instruments used in the calorimetry were not suitable.
"Seismometers, dynamometers, microscopes" are not used. (I suppose this was
sarcasm, but perhaps not.)



> *Now post-factum after 4 reports of the ERV, after alternative
> measurements by IH employees. such arguments are dead.*
>

I do not understand this sentence. I cannot comment on the ERV, but the
sample of calorimetry done by Rossi was clearly wrong. (Maybe it was done
by Penon.) The methods, instruments and data were ridiculous. "Unsuitable"
is putting it politely. I did not see calorimetry measurements by I.H.
employees; I can only judge by the sample from Rossi. I am sure it was from
Rossi because the numbers were the same ones he quoted in the Lewan
interview.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Peter Gluck]

*dear Jed,*
*i have just been writing my answer to this assertion:*

*Announced a year ago this could be an argument but even then how could
Rossi depart from the test plan; how many reactors were "inoperable" and in
which sense? Flawed measurements have to be reported immediately and what
unsuitable measuring instruments were used- for a long year for
temperature, pressure, flow- seismometers, dynamometers, microscopes?*

*Now post-factum after 4 reports of the ERV, after alternative measurements
by IH employees. such arguments are dead.*

On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> a.ashfield  wrote:
>
>> IH has apparently sent Krivit a copy of their legal response to the court
>> case.
>>
> I expect he found it by some other means.
>
> From a quick scan it doesn’t look like they have stated the E-Cat doesn’t
>> work . . .
>>
>
> It says this on p. 2, in the footnote:
>
> "Guaranteed Performance Test" that the Complaint purposely ignores (such
> as departing from the purported test plan, ignoring inoperable reactors,
> relying on flawed measurements, and using unsuitable measuring devices).
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

I left out part of the footnote. It says:

1. Because Defendants are not permitted to introduce facts outside the
Complaint and its Exhibits, this motion does not address, for example, the
numerous errors in Plaintiffs’ purported “Guaranteed Performance Test” that
the Complaint purposely ignores (such as departing from the purported test
plan, ignoring inoperable reactors, relying on flawed measurements, and
using unsuitable measuring devices)."

Krivit added a password to the Acrobat file, which makes it awkward to
quote from.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

a.ashfield  wrote:

> IH has apparently sent Krivit a copy of their legal response to the court
> case.
>
I expect he found it by some other means.

>From a quick scan it doesn’t look like they have stated the E-Cat doesn’t
> work . . .
>

It says this on p. 2, in the footnote:

"Guaranteed Performance Test" that the Complaint purposely ignores (such as
departing from the purported test plan, ignoring inoperable reactors,
relying on flawed measurements, and using unsuitable measuring devices).

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Craig Haynie]

There's nothing in the dispute which hinges on whether the device works, 
or not. That point may never be brought up.


Craig

On 06/03/2016 10:04 AM, a.ashfield wrote:


IH has apparently sent Krivit a copy of their legal response to the 
court case.


From a quick scan it doesn’t look like they have stated the E-Cat 
doesn’t work, but complain about the delay in starting the 1 MWtest, 
the instrumentation used and complain about the old E-Cats on stand-by 
not being used.Much apparently hinges on the modified agreement for 
the test that IH are now saying they didn’t sign.


There are other gems like:

“There is no provision in the Licensing Agreement, however, that 
requires Defendants to keep the E-Cat IP confidential or to protect 
its purported secrecy.”


http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/Rossi-vs-Darden/20160602-Darden-et-al-Motion-to-Dismiss.pdf

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

IH has apparently sent Krivit a copy of their legal response to the 
court case.


From a quick scan it doesn’t look like they have stated the E-Cat 
doesn’t work, but complain about the delay in starting the 1 MWtest, the 
instrumentation used and complain about the old E-Cats on stand-by not 
being used.Much apparently hinges on the modified agreement for the test 
that IH are now saying they didn’t sign.


There are other gems like:

“There is no provision in the Licensing Agreement, however, that 
requires Defendants to keep the E-Cat IP confidential or to protect its 
purported secrecy.”


http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/Rossi-vs-Darden/20160602-Darden-et-al-Motion-to-Dismiss.pdf

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1 Legal issues

[Daniel Rocha]

They cite to much jurisprudence!!! US law is way too confusing. There
should be a patent lawyer to comment this.

2016-06-02 23:51 GMT-03:00 Bob Cook :

>
>
>
> If I were In IH’s shoes, I would be worried.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Eric Walker]

IH's motion to dismiss the lawsuit, filed with the federal court in
Florida, is now available:

http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/Rossi-vs-Darden/20160602-Darden-et-al-Motion-to-Dismiss.pdf

Eric

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

Ross's attorney has issued a public statement saying that the license 
between Leonardo Corp and Industrial Heat has been terminated due to 
IH's failure to make payment for it.


http://ecat.com/news/pressrelease-industrial-heat-loses-license-for-rossis-e-cat

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Peter Gluck]

dear Adrian,

today being Rossi's 66 birthday
"Rossi resurrected cold fusion from near death only about five years ago.
As a result several universities and several *countries* are now working on
LENR."
would make a nice Motto on my blog, if you give permission to cite you.
thanks,
peter


On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 11:23 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> Frank Znidarsic 
> 
>   "The field of cold fusion does not need this."
>
>
> I don't know how you can say that when Rossi resurrected cold fusion from
> near death only about five years ago. As a result several universities and
> several *countries* are now working on LENR.
> In passing, Rossi says today the QuarkX test is "so far so good." I reckon
> it must be almost half way through it.
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

RE: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1 Legal issues

[Bob Cook]

  


  
  
Frank Znidarsic  "The field of cold fusion does not need this."


I don't know how you can say that when Rossi resurrected cold
  fusion from near death only about five years ago. As a result
  several universities and several countries are now working
  on LENR.

In passing, Rossi says today the QuarkX test is "so far so good." I
reckon it must be almost half way through it.




  

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

Frank Znidarsic 
 
"The field of cold fusion does not need this."


I don't know how you can say that when Rossi resurrected cold fusion 
from near death only about five years ago. As a result several 
universities and several /countries/ are now working on LENR.


In passing, Rossi says today the QuarkX test is "so far so good." I 
reckon it must be almost half way through it.

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Frank Znidarsic]

Rossi offered hope.Great professors had verified
his technology.  He even had a factory in the works in Florida.
Then came the one megawatt plant.  It seemed suspicious when the production
of only tens of watts would had been a stupendous breakthrough.


Now with the lawsuits the one megawatt plant is more than suspicious.
Vortex has gone crazy, like it did during the Smoot fiasco.  The smoot is gone
from the discussion now and someday so it will be with the E-cat.


The field of cold fusion does not need this.


I continue to work on my same slowly moving path.  I am now working with 
two retired military officials from the pentagon to bring cold fusion into 
reality.  
So far nothing material has happened but they are on it.   




I am selling a few more books all of the time.  Apps too.  My past experience 
tells 
me that the story will be the same one year from now.   Maybe I will have a few 
more apps.  I have 
some ideas there.




http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text=%22znidarsic+science+books%22=n%3A133140011%2Ck%3A%22znidarsic+science+books%22


Frank Z

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Eric Walker]

Adrian,

The risk alluded to was not a technological one, but instead a legal one. If 
there is no settlement (of course there might be one), there's the likelihood 
that counterclaims will be raised. The license agreement itself includes 
language about there being no outstanding legal disputes, and presumably the 
same kind of consideration will be relevant to the interests of the new 
business partner (Hydrofusion, I assume, but am not sure of).

Take the opinion of someone who is not a lawyer for what it's worth in this 
case (very little).

Eric

> On Jun 2, 2016, at 12:11, a.ashfield  wrote:
> 
> Eric,
> "Rossi's new business partners will be assuming a lot of risk in working with 
> him."
> 
> While any new venture particularly one where the process is not understood is 
> risky,  if they can witness a 7 day trial and make the measurements they 
> want, it sounds a reasonable risk to me - when considering the possible 
> payoff.
> 

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

Eric,
"Rossi's new business partners will be assuming a lot of risk in working 
with him."


While any new venture particularly one where the process is not 
understood is risky,  if they can witness a 7 day trial and make the 
measurements they want, it sounds a reasonable risk to me - when 
considering the possible payoff.

RE: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jones Beene]

Yet, after Srinivasan went back to BARC/India in 1996, he again found tritium. 
Tritium is considered by many to be the gold standard of proof for LENR. There 
is no rational way to explain away the appearance of tritium – even if excess 
heat can’t be measured.  That was the same year Thermacore had the 50 megajoule 
runaway. Very frustrating that here we are 20 years later with Rossi-gate being 
the main News story.

 

From: Jed Rothwell 

 

The fact that other people may have seen heat from the Ni-H system is no 
guarantee that Rossi did. After all, Srinivasan did not, despite months of 
effort at SRI.

 

- Jed

 

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene  wrote:
>
> This is where I differ from Jed’s negative assessment: Rossi appears to
> me to have achieved modest thermal gain in some of his testing, as have
> others using basically the same theory of operation.
>
He might have in some of his tests. I cannot rule that out. I do not have
enough information. Those tests were so poorly done, I doubt anyone can be
sure. However, I am confident there was no heat in the one-year test of the
1-MW gadget.

The fact that other people may have seen heat from the Ni-H system is no
guarantee that Rossi did. After all, Srinivasan did not, despite months of
effort at SRI.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

a.ashfield  wrote:

Jed.  "Rossi is not a reliable source of information."
>
> Do you really maintain there is not a test of the QuarkX going on now?
>

I have no earthly idea. But in the past he often claimed to be doing tests
he was not doing, setting up production lines he was not setting up, and
selling to customers who did not exist. So, as I said, he is not a reliable
source of information. If he told me it is raining I would go outside to
check before believing it.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Eric Walker]

On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 4:34 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

Like you, I suspect the COP has been exaggerated but perhaps not as much as
> you suggest.  I believe the contract for the 1 MW plant called for a COP>4.


The license agreement talked about a COP of 4.  The second amendment
amended the relevant section, stipulating a COP of between 2.6 and 6, with
IH owing 89 million multiplied by whatever ratio between these two numbers
was observed.

http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Rossi_et_al_v_Darden_et_al__flsdce-16-21199__0001.4.pdf

I am doubtful Rossi will get a penny out of this lawsuit, and IH may even
find a way to recover some of the 11.5 million it has already paid him.
What would be really great, though, would be if Rossi were required to
submit to a new test under the direction of the court, and under the
scrutiny of court-appointed experts.  If a settlement occurs, we may not
learn anything. Until the lawsuit winds down, Rossi's new business partners
will be assuming a lot of risk in working with him.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

Jones Beene,
If Rossi is a fraud he has fooled me.  Maybe because of his excitement 
over the last few months I feel more optimistic than I have for a 
while.  I hope he has figured out how to run the Quark at a higher 
temperature without it running away.  This should provide a higher COP 
and be more useful for industrial purposes.


Like you, I suspect the COP has been exaggerated but perhaps not as much 
as you suggest.  I believe the contract for the 1 MW plant called for a 
COP>4.  I don't see how Rossi can get paid if it is less no matter how 
important the physics.

We will see soon enough.

RE: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jones Beene]

The Quark… strange and charming… or another downer?

This could be a brilliant tactic on Rossi’s part – if he has anything real to 
show to the world this time. It is possibly his last chance at redemption, and 
he surely realizes the position he is in. The legal papers from IH (the answer 
and possible counter-claims) are due soon, which will provide further 
embarrassment to AR unless he has a touch of magic with which to neutralize 
them. 

There is little doubt that Industrial Heat will prevail in the ongoing lawsuit 
… eventually … since the COP necessary to fulfill that contract is high, and 
the ERV is incompetent. But Rossi can still salvage a decent settlement with IH 
if he is willing and able to provide less grandiose technology… enough to 
convince experts that there is an improved thermal anomaly of the type which 
has been seen by Thermacore, Mills, Piantelli and others. Of course, IH must be 
able to reproduce it on their own, something that has not happened yet.

There is proved thermal gain going back 20 years, which is small and 
undependable on top of that, to the extent that it never got traction. If the 
Quark provides enough reliable improvement, it can still change the world of 
physics … especially with direct conversion capability. The proportionate 
amount of gain and its reliability - that is the crux of the problem – now as 
it was 20 years ago. Has the Quark gone over the top, or it the fading breath 
of one of the World’s greatest con-artists?

This is where I differ from Jed’s negative assessment: Rossi appears to me to 
have achieved modest thermal gain in some of his testing, as have others using 
basically the same theory of operation. It is at least 50/50 … IMO - that with 
the Quark, Andrea Rossi has a device which is reliable enough, easier to test, 
and provides enough gain that he can allow a competent tester, using acceptable 
standards to do what should have been done at Lugano, but was not.

It will not be the extraordinary COP that AR often dreams about, or the 
contract calls for -- but if he can show reliable COP of 2, that will be 
sufficient for a settlement. Of course, that level is far below Rossi’s prior 
bogosity, where he wants the gain to look like COP of 6 and up. 

But the undeniable fact in all of this is that COP of 2, if it is on-demand and 
replicated, and proved without AR’s intervention, is still HUGE in terms of the 
physics involved. 

From: Daniel Rocha 

I think Rossi's costumer this time is his company's branch at UK, right?

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

Daniel, "I think Rossi's costumer this time is his company's branch at 
UK, right?"


The story is that it is a Swedish customer (or possible partner), 
possibly ABS.  I don't know where the test is being carried out.

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Daniel Rocha]

I think Rossi's costumer this time is his company's branch at UK, right?

2016-06-01 13:19 GMT-03:00 a.ashfield :

> Hank Mills gives a few more details and some speculation about the QuarkX
> test.At least we will learn something from it.  Silence will mean
> failure.  More tests will indicate there are still some problems.  Rossi
> has stated he would comment “within ten days.”  Not long compared to the
> one year trial.
>
>
> http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/06/01/seven-days-of-hell-for-the-e-cat-quarkx-hank-mills/
>
> Sifferkoll notes:
>
> Been looking more closely in my logs and no doubt entities as DoS, DoD,
> Bechtel, Northrop Grumman and the Saudis are watching us ... Strange really
> those people being that interested in conspiracy theories :)
>



-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

Hank Mills gives a few more details and some speculation about the 
QuarkX test.At least we will learn something from it.Silence will mean 
failure.More tests will indicate there are still some problems.Rossi has 
stated he would comment “within ten days.”Not long compared to the one 
year trial.


http://www.e-catworld.com/2016/06/01/seven-days-of-hell-for-the-e-cat-quarkx-hank-mills/

Sifferkoll notes:

Been looking more closely in my logs and no doubt entities as DoS, DoD, 
Bechtel, Northrop Grumman and the Saudis are watching us ... Strange 
really those people being that interested in conspiracy theories :)

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

Jed.  "Rossi is not a reliable source of information."

Do you really maintain there is not a test of the QuarkX going on now?

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[Jed Rothwell]

a.ashfield  wrote:

Rossi has started a one week test of three QuarkX reactors for a potential
> customer/partner in Sweden.
>
Rossi is not a reliable source of information.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

Rossi has started a one week test of three QuarkX reactors for a 
potential customer/partner in Sweden.


All that is known of the QuarkX is that it is about the size of a pen, 
produces about 100 Watts (10W/cc).It is claimed to produce electricity 
directly as well as heat (and possibly light).It has a max operating 
temperature of 1400C and could produce steam at 600C.No photos or other 
information are known.


I thought Rossi made a priceless reply to one of the many asking him for 
details…Seems like he has not lost his sense of humor.


Hank Mills

May 30, 2016 at 8:55 PM 
 



Snip

7) How will the heat produced by the Quarks be measured?

8) How will the electricity produced by the Quarks be measured?

Andrea Rossi

May 31, 2016 at 7:54 AM 
 



7- putting on the hot surface the finger of somebody and see how loudly 
he cries ( audiometric measurement, a new patent of mine)

8- same as above ( disconnecting the earth cable)

[Vo]:The Rossi Saga Part 1

[a.ashfield]

Various threads have sprung up making it difficult to follow the Rossi 
story.I propose we start with part 1 and add more as it gets too long.


Here is the best description of details of the 1 MW plant from Mats Lewan

https://animpossibleinvention.com/blog/

 * All the instruments for measurements were installed, under
   observation of IH and Rossi, by the ERV (Expert Responsible for
   Validation) Fabio Penon, who had been communicating also with
   Darden, receiving technical suggestions from him on this matter. All
   communications with the ERV were made with both Darden and Rossi in
   copy.
 * The flow meter was mounted according to all standard requirements,
   for example at the lowest point in the system.
 * The MW plant was placed on blocks, 33 cm above the ground, to make
   sure that leaking water or any hidden connections would become visible.
 * The two IH representatives present at the test were Barry West and
   Fulvio Fabiani (who worked for Rossi from January 2012 until August
   2013, when the MW plant was delivered to IH in North Carolina, after
   which he was paid by IH as an expert who would make the technology
   transition from Rossi to IH easier). West and Fabiani reported to JT
   Vaughn every day on the phone.
 * Three interim reports, about every three months, with basically the
   same results as in the final report, were provided by the ERV during
   the test.
 * During summer 2015, IH offered Rossi to back out from the test and
   cancel it, with a significant sum of money as compensation. Rossi’s
   counter offer was to give back the already paid 11.5M and cancel the
   license agreement, but IH didn’t accept.
 * The unidentified customer (‘JM Products’) using the thermal energy
   from the MW plant, had its equipment at the official address—7861,
   46th Street, Doral, Fl. The total surface of the premises was 1,000
   square meters, of which the MW plant used 400 and the customer 600.
 * The equipment of the customer measured 20 x 3 x 3 meters, and the
   process was running 24/7.
 * The thermal energy was transfered to the customer with heat
   exchangers and the heat that was not consumed was vented out as hot
   air through the roof.
 * The water heated by the MW plant was circulating in a closed loop,
   and since the return temperature was varying, due to different load
   in the process of the customer, Rossi insisted that the energy
   corresponding to heating the inflowing cooled water (at about
   60˚C) to boiling temperature would not be taken into account for
   calculating the thermal power produced by the MW plant. The ERV
   accepted. (This was conservative, decreasing the calculated thermal
   power. The main part of the calculated thermal power, however,
   derives from the water being evaporated when boiling).
 * He also insisted that an arbitrary chosen 10 percent should be
   subtracted in the power calculation, with no other reason than to be
   conservative. The ERV accepted.
 * IH never had access to the customer’s area. At the end of the test,
   an expert hired by IH, insisted that it was important to know where
   the water came from and where it was used. The ERV explained that
   this had no importance.
 * The average flow of water was 36 cubic meters per day.
 * At the end of the test, the ERV dismounted all the instruments by
   himself, in the presence of Rossi and IH, packed them and brought
   everything to DHL for transportation to the instrument manufacturers
   who would recalibrate the instruments and certify that they were not
   manipulated.
 * After the test, IH wanted to remove the MW plant from the premises
   in Florida, but Rossi would not accept until the remaining $89M were
   paid according to the license agreement. Rossi’s and IH’s attorneys
   then agreed that both parties should lock the plant with their own
   padlocks (as opposed to the claim by Dewey Weaver—a person
   apparently connected to IH, but yet not clear in what way—that ‘IH
   decided to padlock the 1MW container after observing and documenting
   many disappointing actions and facts’).

Mats also adds Rossi and his Swedish partner Hydrofusion have made an 
offer $3 – 5 million to buy a 10,000 sq.ft factory there, where Rossi 
says he intends manufacture 500,000 QuarkX reactors per year.Difficult 
to see why Rossi would spend this kind of money if the E-Cat didn’t work.


Mats says he has “been in contact with people with insight into the MW 
report, that hopefully will get public this summer as part of the 
lawsuit, and they told me that based on the contents, the only way for 
IH to claim a COP about 1 (that no heat was produced would be to accuse 
Penon of having produced a fake report in collaboration with Rossi. 
Nothing in the report itself seems to give any opportunity for large 
mistakes, .”


IH have made a rather vague statement about not being able to duplicate 
Rossi’s results.Jed claims he has data that shows the 1 MW plant had a 
COP = 1 and